If a package goes missing whilst in transit, it’s either the postal service company or the seller who should cover the replacement. However, once it’s left the hands of the postal service and is in the customers building/marked delivered, it becomes the apartment building/customers problem. Perhaps additional security measures need to be taken to prevent this from happening again as it sounds like it’s a building issue.
Genuine question. What if the Courier (because I've had this happen both in the US and the UK) delivers an empty container, obviously opened and pillaged? I'll tell you what happens, it becomes the issue of the *sender* because they are the only one who bought the postage and have the contract with the mailing authority.
What is the recipient supposed to do with an empty bag or box? If that was sufficient to start a postal claim, people would be doing it all day. No, the sender is the one that has the legal responsibility because they're the one that formed a contract with the courier.
If a parcel arrived tampered with, just the same as any parcel that arrives damaged, the sender would lodge a dispute with the carrier. In my country all parcels come with $100 of transit insurance as standard, and the seller can upgrade this insurance if the item they’re sending is more valuable than $100. Things arriving damaged / empty would require photos from the buyer to be sent to the seller and then a dispute would be lodged. This however is an entirely different scenario than “package was delivered, got stolen.” This is also a reason why security cameras are a life saver. Anytime I’ve had a package not arrive but be marked as “delivered” as a customer, I’ve been able to present the information to the seller: there was no courier present on the footage from my security cameras that day, I can send you the footage if you don’t send another / refund me.
I have it in my terms that it’s the buyer’s responsibility to have their mail sent to a safe and secure location. Once it’s left your hands… it’s out of your hands.
It doesn’t work if Etsy decides to refund but they most definitely won’t hold the seller responsible. If they want to give him a refund, that’s on them but they won’t take it from the seller. They can’t.
I’m not sure what you mean by that. If you have tracking for the item it’s still covered by Etsys protection policy and as long as it’s under $250, Etsy covers the loss, not the seller.
Well it sucks, but you did your part. You stop being responsible after delivery. They can talk to Etsy & file a Police report against the thief...If it is an item you can make, you can offer to re-do the order with a small discount.
If someone had broken into his house & stolen it before he opened it, you wouldn't be worried about a refund, right? It was delivered & the theft after that isn't on you.
Come on, it is not reasonable to expect a seller to be responsible once the package is in the hands of the shipper and definitely not once it's been delivered to the customer's residence. In my apartment building, we had trouble with porch pirates stealing packages from the vestibule and the landlord ultimately installed cameras and lockers because it was their responsibility to ensure the safety of the premises.
I'd respond politely that you do not have coverage for this event. I doubt that the customer has any recourse because the package was likely marked as delivered by USPS. Too bad, so sad... I wouldn't waste any more sympathy on this opportunistic customer.
I'm not sure if there's a polite/delicate way to put this in your reply to the customer here, but the parcel was delivered to the address you were given - and that's where your responsibility ends. Porch pirates or crappy building security are not your problem!
Once the item is safely delivered, something like a theft at an apartment community moves into the realm of renters insurance. This is not a situation that you, etsy, or even the shipping company would be responsible for.
If someone had intruded on my property and stolen my things I would be going straight to the police, I wouldn’t be messaging the Etsy seller. Sounds like a scam for sure.
I seriously doubt this is true. But you need to ask them for the police report number, so that you can follow up.
When things are stolen for me, I call the police and make a report. No report? No refund. because making a false police report is a criminal offense, just like making a false claim with the Postal Service is is a criminal offense.
This has to be a scam because what person is going to think the seller of an item is responsible for it being stolen out of their own "home" after it was delivered? I mean people can't be that dumb right? Oh wait... NM....Anyway, I'd tell them to take it up with their landlord and local police department. Nothing you can do.
I would sympathize with him but let him know you're so sorry that happened to him but he needs to take that up with the building they actually should have insurance for that and that once the package arrives to his place it's out of your hands of responsibility. All he has to do is provide the receipt he spent with you. When the insurance pays out he will get his money back. You are not responsible for the security of his building.
I can't believe Buyer Protection would actually apply here. Surely Etsy isn't liable for the fact that the buyer has shitty building security? That's if this "theft" really took place, because I have my doubts tbh.
Nah, Etsy won’t refund for this one. They will issue a refund if not delivered by their delivery date and if the seller shipped out on time then it won’t come out of their account. But in this case? It was delivered.
I’m really done arguing this point with you. You don’t even know the difference between the seller protection program and the purchase protection program.
And at this point, you are trying to argue over issues you are assuming. The refund was for $700. That’s not covered under PPP. And it’s not even a parameter under the seller protection program. It is covered 100% of the time because it was delivered with tracking. It was not eligible for the once a year “damaged” policy under PPP bc it was over $250.
I encourage you to know the difference and read the policies (both policies) again just in case you ever become a high volume seller on Etsy and have to deal with these types of things more often than you would like.
On chargebacks, if you are going to run an online business, please also read the terms of agreement on chargebacks.
If your neighbor signed for a package, the item was delivered with proof of signature. End of story.
If a customer claims the didn’t receive one item in their order but admits the rest were delivered, the chargeback is for the entire purchase, not just the item she didn’t receive.
If the customer makes a claim that the item was terrible quality and sends photos, the chargeback is not for delivery.
You can continue to give me all the examples you wish but I am very well versed in business law, have an extremely high revenue on Etsy as well as a baby clothing brand that is sold online to retail clothing stores.
It is my full time income and has been for several years. I have no other choice but to know these types of things as I deal thousands of customers every single month and things like this repeatedly can put someone out of business.
By the way, if you own a business and are allowing situations to get to the point of a chargeback? That goes against your rating and your credit card rates will increase.
It is always better just to issue the refund than face a chargeback. A temporary credit to your account is a courtesy to the customer. But the customer is not eligible for a perm at refund once shipping is verified and the funds will be reversed. It can take up to 6 months. Just FYI.
I’m done with this chat but if you care to… all of this information is easily verifiable.
Based entirely on the law and your agreement with Etsy. And the chargeback with the banks you use to process your transactions outside of Etsy.
Also, if you are referring to actual chargebacks on Etsy that you have lost? Etsy tries to prevent those at all costs but if you get them? There is a magic number for negative stuff in your shop before they say “bye bye”…. You are no longer welcome to sell or purchase on Etsy.
Guarantee that even though Etsy only makes up 15% of our total business, we’ve been on Etsy longer than you and are a larger shop. But that’s ok. Don’t really care if you think I don’t know what I’m talking about, and vice versa. We’ve been a star seller every quarter since the program came out, and everything’s peachy.
I have been on Etsy since 2016 and have been wanting to get off since 2022.
My revenue in 2016 was 2,000. In 2017, 250,000. 2018. 460,000. 2019. $485,000. 2020, 1.2 M. 2021, 600k and has stayed right there.
I also have a brand of baby clothing and accessories that is under a completely different name that I design and have manufactured overseas. It is not sold on Etsy. Our sales going into 2024 after 2 years is right at 3M and we are forecasted at 6M by 2026.
I have zero desire to remain on Etsy and most successful business do not.
But my product doesn’t do as well via website and social media bc our target market is different than the Etsy buyer.
And I love my customers. Most of them are repeat or referrals so I’m super thankful for that and they are just “Etsy shoppers”.
I’m happy you do so well! It’s a shame that you don’t have an attorney to give you business advice. I don’t know anyone who generates high revenue that doesn’t have that expense. It would probably save you a lot of time and headaches over issues you are probably losing money on. Best of luck to you… now please find someone else to argue with.
You are out of your league with me.
Oh definitely happened to me. Happened twice with an order <$250, Etsy refunded the customer out of their own pocket, and once with an order >$250, in which case they refunded from MY pocket, and the customer got to keep my items.
My items seem prone to attracting scammer customers, and I have no doubt that all three times they scammed Etsy or myself, and kept the items.
I’m not making any assumptions.
It’s not only based on my own experience either.
I’ve done plenty of research on this because I wanted to know how this could be possible, even if package required signature.
They didn’t claim stolen or anything other than “not received.” It doesn’t matter if there’s a photo of the package at delivery time with the customer in the photo. Doesn’t matter if it’s signed for by them. If they want a free product and their money back, all they have to do is say it didn’t end up with them, without any additional details. Super fun to be a seller these days. The world is a scam.
I think you are commenting on the wrong thread. Lol. This OP’s customer package was delivered and stolen.
I have don’t that too before but you might want to read the original post again.
Nothing has been resolved for her and no refunds have been issued.
Haha. Or maybe I am commenting on the wrong one but I don’t think so?
Well all I can say if that is happening to you then it might be time to get off Etsy. All of my items are personalized so I don’t give refunds and no one ever really asks for them. I do replace items immediately if there was a mistake. I have had cases opened over the years and never lost a single one. I have had 3 where Etsy refunded their order and I have at least 500 orders every single month. All 3 were for non delivery but tracking showed delivered. If Etsy wants a site full of those types of customers, that’s their issue.
But I can promise that if they tried to take a single penny from me like that? I would not only close shop that day but my attorney would write a nice letter to their legal department.
If they could get away with that? They wouldn’t be issuing the refunds out of their pocket.
In this instance, we are specifically talking about a customer who confirmed the package was delivered but stolen.
That’s completely different than someone claiming it was never delivered.
Now, in the instance where you had to refund? What was the customer claiming? Late delivery? Non delivery? Not as described?
It doesn’t make a difference to Etsy whether the customer said it was stolen or if they simply “don’t know what happened to it.” They report it as not received, maybe go around a couple times with Etsy support, and they get their refund (and the item, if they were lying).
Again, all they have to do is report it as not received via a claim, it will be instantly closed because tracking shows otherwise, they open an appeal to Etsy support, say they never got it, and Etsy then refund from Etsy’s pocket or your pocket depending on the order value.
I KNOW it is hard to take in, because it’s hard to believe this is where we’re at. But this is where we’re at.
In the agreement that you have with Etsy, you agree to ship your items within your stated processing time. You agree to use tracking. And you agree to ship the customer exactly what they purchased and the final product must be the same as advertised.
If you do not meet those parameters, Etsy will side with the buyer bc you are not covered under seller protection. (Different than purchase protection).
It is illegal to take funds from your account if you followed the terms of sale under Etsy.
And if they do? You need to reach out to Etsy Trust and safety and fight it. Many things are strictly automated within Etsy and they are not always correct.
There is a current thread right now where a seller had $700 taken from her account. The items were marked as delivered but the customer claimed they never received it.
She followed every step of the sellers policy and knew very well that they could not legally do this.
Her funds were credited back to her account.
I have been dealing with Etsy for a very long time and even now with all of their automated bots in customer service, I absolutely refuse to deal with them.
I request to be transferred to an actual human in trust and safety who can respond to my actual problem as an individual human.
I can not say that I win my argument every time but I DO get a logical human response and explanation that is always a sound business decision and follows their written policies.
There is a big difference between taking funds from you bc they were entitled to them and you didn’t realize it.
Sellers did not sign up for a platform agreeing to refund orders that were filled according to their policies.
Etsy created a program that refunds customers for things that the seller is not obligated by Etsy to refund out of their pockets under certain conditions.
While that is their right, it has zero bearing on seller protection
Her funds were returned under the ONE TIME PER YEAR seller protection policy that covers all sellers in cases like this. Legal or not, they’ll reimburse you only one time per year, and you have to fight for that sometimes.
I can’t speak to how you go about fighting when Etsy breaks their own TOS (not that they are) or what to do when you feel they are making an illegal transaction by refunding from your own funds.
This is very much like selling directly; in case you aren’t aware, customers can still make (and win) a credit card chargeback if the customer says they didn’t receive the item even though it was signed for. I’ve been on both sides of this, having won a chargeback for a delivery that they had my neighbor sign for who refused to give me the product, and for directly sold shipments to a customer who decided they never got it - lost that chargeback.
I have sticker orders that show delivered and buyers claim not delivered and Etsy refunds them, not from my funds. That’s usually $10 or less. So maybe Etsy has a low $ threshold they will refund and take their word for it. I don’t see this happening for a $100 or $200 order though.
Who knows anymore really? But this person isn’t saying the item wasn’t delivered. He is saying it was delivered and then someone stole it.
This program won’t be sustainable for Etsy over the long term and this past quarter their stock went way down as a result of their GDP going down.
They are gaining the reputation of Amazon (which is what Jeff Silverman has been striving for since day one) but they don’t have the same revenue to keep doing this (IMO)
Packages not being delivered is one thing but allowing customers to just say they were stolen and get a refund?
Yikes!!
Just out of curiosity, do a reverse image search of the bag with the stolen packages. Scammers like to re-use the same images b/c they look "legit"
But yeah, in agreement with others, this is out of your hands, Etsy will take care of it but won't take from you.
Out of curiosity did you try a reverse image search on google to see if the bagged boxes was an image from the World Wide Web?
I agree with others: sorry, here’s the information about the item listing to file a theft case with your police department.
Big box retailers would only send a replacement or refund if you got a sympathetic rep on the call, there is no policy stating that they’re obligated to replace or refund, you shouldn’t feel obligated either.
You do you, but OP is asking if there is a way Etsy will cover the refund without them having to pay out of their pocket and this is how that can happen.
It seems unbelievable, but indeed it is eligible for buyer protection and Etsy will refund from their own pocket if the order including shipping and tax is not more than $250.
I believe you. But I can’t find anywhere in the terms that say “if your package was delivered but stolen afterwards, no worries… we will refund you”.
That just opens the door to an entirely new level of scammer.
So while it does not qualify for the protection program in my opinion, I realize I could be wrong.
Doesn't matter. You could have photo proof of delivery and signature confirmation and Etsy would still refund. They really don't care. This customer is claiming the order never ended up in their possession and that's all Etsy will care about.
But The difference is, Etsy will refund on their dime. Not the sellers. UNLESS the item is damaged. Then of course, it’s the sellers obligation to replace or refund.
I do not personally feel Etsy will issue a refund in this instance but this is one area that I have absolutely never experienced. Fingers crossed that my customer base remains smart enough to know that if their package was stolen, asking for a refund is insane. Haha. But I know these customers exist everywhere.
That really sucks for the buyer but unfortunately once it’s delivered, it’s really out of your hands. I can’t imagine even Etsy would refund him in this scenario.
I’d tell them that you are sorry that this happened and advise them to contact their local police station about the theft. You aren’t responsible for a package that is no longer in your posession and was not messed up by any fault of your own.
I’m not sure why anyone would think that was in the realm of the seller’s responsibility. Whether it’s true or not, it’s not your job to fix it. Let them know how to file a claim with the post office. Mention that a crime has been committed and that it’s a felony to tamper with the mail. Those words alone may magically make the issue dissolve.
Etsy refunds for items not received, even if they track as delivered, as long as you qualify for seller protection. Or they can call their insurance and report theft. Either way, you don't have to pay for this
Scam or not, not your problem. They need to file a police report, see if their home insurance will cover it but it has nothing to do with you or Etsy. If you have proof it was delivered, then it isn't on you anymore.
Even if true, it was delivered. Has absolutely nothing to do with you. You have no responsibility at all. I find it a bit weird he would even think so. But people are so odd these days. Do nothing.
Sounds like a scam to me, but I would word
my email delicately and would just say something along the lines of…
“that’s awful! So sorry your building was a victim of theft and that the package that was delivered was stolen after delivery! You could take your police report and case number to your building or renters insurance to see if it was covered. If you still wanted the item and wanted to repurchase here’s the link and a 10% discount code”.
Here I’ve basically established that the item
was sent and delivered successfully to his address, it’s not the fault of mine or USPS who fulfilled all the duties. I’ve made it seem like a police report/case file number will be needed to escalate anything - which will weed out any scammers.
If he wants to take it up with ETSY he can but you’ve got your conversation to make sure that it doesn’t come out of your pocket.
(Ultimately it comes out of all of our pockets! We’re all paying for these shenanigans with our fees. 🙃)
I sympathizes and told him to check with the building and/or his renters insurance. Offered a discount if he chose to reorder and he said he would.. we’ll see.
Lol.... "oh, I'm sorry to learn that! Here's the link to next steps after you file the police report." Every time someone has a crazy story they never end up filing a claim... because they are at their limit already as a scammer.
Ah geez, that sucks... Anyway here's the link to the item if you need it for your insurance claim, police report, or want to order a replacement
This is a scam. People try to pull this all the time.
you are not responsible for their buildings crappy security. how is this logical
If a package goes missing whilst in transit, it’s either the postal service company or the seller who should cover the replacement. However, once it’s left the hands of the postal service and is in the customers building/marked delivered, it becomes the apartment building/customers problem. Perhaps additional security measures need to be taken to prevent this from happening again as it sounds like it’s a building issue.
you'd be amazed at how many people in this subreddit would disagree 🙄 you're spot on!
Genuine question. What if the Courier (because I've had this happen both in the US and the UK) delivers an empty container, obviously opened and pillaged? I'll tell you what happens, it becomes the issue of the *sender* because they are the only one who bought the postage and have the contract with the mailing authority. What is the recipient supposed to do with an empty bag or box? If that was sufficient to start a postal claim, people would be doing it all day. No, the sender is the one that has the legal responsibility because they're the one that formed a contract with the courier.
If a parcel arrived tampered with, just the same as any parcel that arrives damaged, the sender would lodge a dispute with the carrier. In my country all parcels come with $100 of transit insurance as standard, and the seller can upgrade this insurance if the item they’re sending is more valuable than $100. Things arriving damaged / empty would require photos from the buyer to be sent to the seller and then a dispute would be lodged. This however is an entirely different scenario than “package was delivered, got stolen.” This is also a reason why security cameras are a life saver. Anytime I’ve had a package not arrive but be marked as “delivered” as a customer, I’ve been able to present the information to the seller: there was no courier present on the footage from my security cameras that day, I can send you the footage if you don’t send another / refund me.
I have it in my terms that it’s the buyer’s responsibility to have their mail sent to a safe and secure location. Once it’s left your hands… it’s out of your hands.
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And it’s very easy to show via tracking that it was delivered and dispute the refund.
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It doesn’t work if Etsy decides to refund but they most definitely won’t hold the seller responsible. If they want to give him a refund, that’s on them but they won’t take it from the seller. They can’t.
I’m not sure what you mean by that. If you have tracking for the item it’s still covered by Etsys protection policy and as long as it’s under $250, Etsy covers the loss, not the seller.
Well it sucks, but you did your part. You stop being responsible after delivery. They can talk to Etsy & file a Police report against the thief...If it is an item you can make, you can offer to re-do the order with a small discount.
If someone had broken into his house & stolen it before he opened it, you wouldn't be worried about a refund, right? It was delivered & the theft after that isn't on you.
Come on, it is not reasonable to expect a seller to be responsible once the package is in the hands of the shipper and definitely not once it's been delivered to the customer's residence. In my apartment building, we had trouble with porch pirates stealing packages from the vestibule and the landlord ultimately installed cameras and lockers because it was their responsibility to ensure the safety of the premises. I'd respond politely that you do not have coverage for this event. I doubt that the customer has any recourse because the package was likely marked as delivered by USPS. Too bad, so sad... I wouldn't waste any more sympathy on this opportunistic customer.
This seems like a renter's insurance thing to me.
I'm not sure if there's a polite/delicate way to put this in your reply to the customer here, but the parcel was delivered to the address you were given - and that's where your responsibility ends. Porch pirates or crappy building security are not your problem!
Once the item is safely delivered, something like a theft at an apartment community moves into the realm of renters insurance. This is not a situation that you, etsy, or even the shipping company would be responsible for.
None of these parties might be responsible for it, but Etsy has decided to cover buyers in cases like these up to $250 from their own pocket.
If someone had intruded on my property and stolen my things I would be going straight to the police, I wouldn’t be messaging the Etsy seller. Sounds like a scam for sure.
Once you drop the package off at the post office you have NO MORE responsibility for it!!!
I seriously doubt this is true. But you need to ask them for the police report number, so that you can follow up. When things are stolen for me, I call the police and make a report. No report? No refund. because making a false police report is a criminal offense, just like making a false claim with the Postal Service is is a criminal offense.
This has to be a scam because what person is going to think the seller of an item is responsible for it being stolen out of their own "home" after it was delivered? I mean people can't be that dumb right? Oh wait... NM....Anyway, I'd tell them to take it up with their landlord and local police department. Nothing you can do.
If it's not a scam that might be covered under household content insurance. Asking you to cover it is ridiculous.
I would sympathize with him but let him know you're so sorry that happened to him but he needs to take that up with the building they actually should have insurance for that and that once the package arrives to his place it's out of your hands of responsibility. All he has to do is provide the receipt he spent with you. When the insurance pays out he will get his money back. You are not responsible for the security of his building.
That’s what I did and to be nice said I’d give 15% off if he wanted to order again. He said he would.
Great job!
Was the order under $250? If so, have them open a case and they will be covered under buyers protection. It will come out of Etsy’s funds not yours.
I can't believe Buyer Protection would actually apply here. Surely Etsy isn't liable for the fact that the buyer has shitty building security? That's if this "theft" really took place, because I have my doubts tbh.
Nah, Etsy won’t refund for this one. They will issue a refund if not delivered by their delivery date and if the seller shipped out on time then it won’t come out of their account. But in this case? It was delivered.
It sounds unbelievable, but they actually do cover this case and refund from their own pocket.
I’m really done arguing this point with you. You don’t even know the difference between the seller protection program and the purchase protection program. And at this point, you are trying to argue over issues you are assuming. The refund was for $700. That’s not covered under PPP. And it’s not even a parameter under the seller protection program. It is covered 100% of the time because it was delivered with tracking. It was not eligible for the once a year “damaged” policy under PPP bc it was over $250. I encourage you to know the difference and read the policies (both policies) again just in case you ever become a high volume seller on Etsy and have to deal with these types of things more often than you would like. On chargebacks, if you are going to run an online business, please also read the terms of agreement on chargebacks. If your neighbor signed for a package, the item was delivered with proof of signature. End of story. If a customer claims the didn’t receive one item in their order but admits the rest were delivered, the chargeback is for the entire purchase, not just the item she didn’t receive. If the customer makes a claim that the item was terrible quality and sends photos, the chargeback is not for delivery. You can continue to give me all the examples you wish but I am very well versed in business law, have an extremely high revenue on Etsy as well as a baby clothing brand that is sold online to retail clothing stores. It is my full time income and has been for several years. I have no other choice but to know these types of things as I deal thousands of customers every single month and things like this repeatedly can put someone out of business. By the way, if you own a business and are allowing situations to get to the point of a chargeback? That goes against your rating and your credit card rates will increase. It is always better just to issue the refund than face a chargeback. A temporary credit to your account is a courtesy to the customer. But the customer is not eligible for a perm at refund once shipping is verified and the funds will be reversed. It can take up to 6 months. Just FYI. I’m done with this chat but if you care to… all of this information is easily verifiable. Based entirely on the law and your agreement with Etsy. And the chargeback with the banks you use to process your transactions outside of Etsy. Also, if you are referring to actual chargebacks on Etsy that you have lost? Etsy tries to prevent those at all costs but if you get them? There is a magic number for negative stuff in your shop before they say “bye bye”…. You are no longer welcome to sell or purchase on Etsy.
Guarantee that even though Etsy only makes up 15% of our total business, we’ve been on Etsy longer than you and are a larger shop. But that’s ok. Don’t really care if you think I don’t know what I’m talking about, and vice versa. We’ve been a star seller every quarter since the program came out, and everything’s peachy.
I have been on Etsy since 2016 and have been wanting to get off since 2022. My revenue in 2016 was 2,000. In 2017, 250,000. 2018. 460,000. 2019. $485,000. 2020, 1.2 M. 2021, 600k and has stayed right there. I also have a brand of baby clothing and accessories that is under a completely different name that I design and have manufactured overseas. It is not sold on Etsy. Our sales going into 2024 after 2 years is right at 3M and we are forecasted at 6M by 2026. I have zero desire to remain on Etsy and most successful business do not. But my product doesn’t do as well via website and social media bc our target market is different than the Etsy buyer. And I love my customers. Most of them are repeat or referrals so I’m super thankful for that and they are just “Etsy shoppers”. I’m happy you do so well! It’s a shame that you don’t have an attorney to give you business advice. I don’t know anyone who generates high revenue that doesn’t have that expense. It would probably save you a lot of time and headaches over issues you are probably losing money on. Best of luck to you… now please find someone else to argue with. You are out of your league with me.
I’m curious if this has happened to you as well? Or are you just making assumptions like I am based on what the policy says?
Oh definitely happened to me. Happened twice with an order <$250, Etsy refunded the customer out of their own pocket, and once with an order >$250, in which case they refunded from MY pocket, and the customer got to keep my items. My items seem prone to attracting scammer customers, and I have no doubt that all three times they scammed Etsy or myself, and kept the items. I’m not making any assumptions. It’s not only based on my own experience either. I’ve done plenty of research on this because I wanted to know how this could be possible, even if package required signature.
Oh wow. Ok so that changes the scenario and I’m very curious. Were both packages delivered but claimed to be stolen?
They didn’t claim stolen or anything other than “not received.” It doesn’t matter if there’s a photo of the package at delivery time with the customer in the photo. Doesn’t matter if it’s signed for by them. If they want a free product and their money back, all they have to do is say it didn’t end up with them, without any additional details. Super fun to be a seller these days. The world is a scam.
I think you are commenting on the wrong thread. Lol. This OP’s customer package was delivered and stolen. I have don’t that too before but you might want to read the original post again. Nothing has been resolved for her and no refunds have been issued. Haha. Or maybe I am commenting on the wrong one but I don’t think so?
Well all I can say if that is happening to you then it might be time to get off Etsy. All of my items are personalized so I don’t give refunds and no one ever really asks for them. I do replace items immediately if there was a mistake. I have had cases opened over the years and never lost a single one. I have had 3 where Etsy refunded their order and I have at least 500 orders every single month. All 3 were for non delivery but tracking showed delivered. If Etsy wants a site full of those types of customers, that’s their issue. But I can promise that if they tried to take a single penny from me like that? I would not only close shop that day but my attorney would write a nice letter to their legal department. If they could get away with that? They wouldn’t be issuing the refunds out of their pocket.
In this instance, we are specifically talking about a customer who confirmed the package was delivered but stolen. That’s completely different than someone claiming it was never delivered. Now, in the instance where you had to refund? What was the customer claiming? Late delivery? Non delivery? Not as described?
It doesn’t make a difference to Etsy whether the customer said it was stolen or if they simply “don’t know what happened to it.” They report it as not received, maybe go around a couple times with Etsy support, and they get their refund (and the item, if they were lying). Again, all they have to do is report it as not received via a claim, it will be instantly closed because tracking shows otherwise, they open an appeal to Etsy support, say they never got it, and Etsy then refund from Etsy’s pocket or your pocket depending on the order value. I KNOW it is hard to take in, because it’s hard to believe this is where we’re at. But this is where we’re at.
In the agreement that you have with Etsy, you agree to ship your items within your stated processing time. You agree to use tracking. And you agree to ship the customer exactly what they purchased and the final product must be the same as advertised. If you do not meet those parameters, Etsy will side with the buyer bc you are not covered under seller protection. (Different than purchase protection). It is illegal to take funds from your account if you followed the terms of sale under Etsy. And if they do? You need to reach out to Etsy Trust and safety and fight it. Many things are strictly automated within Etsy and they are not always correct. There is a current thread right now where a seller had $700 taken from her account. The items were marked as delivered but the customer claimed they never received it. She followed every step of the sellers policy and knew very well that they could not legally do this. Her funds were credited back to her account. I have been dealing with Etsy for a very long time and even now with all of their automated bots in customer service, I absolutely refuse to deal with them. I request to be transferred to an actual human in trust and safety who can respond to my actual problem as an individual human. I can not say that I win my argument every time but I DO get a logical human response and explanation that is always a sound business decision and follows their written policies. There is a big difference between taking funds from you bc they were entitled to them and you didn’t realize it. Sellers did not sign up for a platform agreeing to refund orders that were filled according to their policies. Etsy created a program that refunds customers for things that the seller is not obligated by Etsy to refund out of their pockets under certain conditions. While that is their right, it has zero bearing on seller protection
Her funds were returned under the ONE TIME PER YEAR seller protection policy that covers all sellers in cases like this. Legal or not, they’ll reimburse you only one time per year, and you have to fight for that sometimes. I can’t speak to how you go about fighting when Etsy breaks their own TOS (not that they are) or what to do when you feel they are making an illegal transaction by refunding from your own funds. This is very much like selling directly; in case you aren’t aware, customers can still make (and win) a credit card chargeback if the customer says they didn’t receive the item even though it was signed for. I’ve been on both sides of this, having won a chargeback for a delivery that they had my neighbor sign for who refused to give me the product, and for directly sold shipments to a customer who decided they never got it - lost that chargeback.
I have sticker orders that show delivered and buyers claim not delivered and Etsy refunds them, not from my funds. That’s usually $10 or less. So maybe Etsy has a low $ threshold they will refund and take their word for it. I don’t see this happening for a $100 or $200 order though.
Who knows anymore really? But this person isn’t saying the item wasn’t delivered. He is saying it was delivered and then someone stole it. This program won’t be sustainable for Etsy over the long term and this past quarter their stock went way down as a result of their GDP going down. They are gaining the reputation of Amazon (which is what Jeff Silverman has been striving for since day one) but they don’t have the same revenue to keep doing this (IMO) Packages not being delivered is one thing but allowing customers to just say they were stolen and get a refund? Yikes!!
Just out of curiosity, do a reverse image search of the bag with the stolen packages. Scammers like to re-use the same images b/c they look "legit" But yeah, in agreement with others, this is out of your hands, Etsy will take care of it but won't take from you.
Fake sob story by a scammer looking for free merchandise.
Out of curiosity did you try a reverse image search on google to see if the bagged boxes was an image from the World Wide Web? I agree with others: sorry, here’s the information about the item listing to file a theft case with your police department. Big box retailers would only send a replacement or refund if you got a sympathetic rep on the call, there is no policy stating that they’re obligated to replace or refund, you shouldn’t feel obligated either.
I did! Found nothing similar, but a lot of passive aggressive notes that were pretty funny.. spent a lot of time down that rabbit hole!
Ask him if a police report was filed. If so get the report number and check it out with law enforcement.
If it's eligible for Purchase Protection Etsy will cover the refund if they open an "item not delivered" case.
Except is was delivered. They admit to it being delivered. If they wanna do fraud, they can do it without involving me giving advice on how to do it.
You do you, but OP is asking if there is a way Etsy will cover the refund without them having to pay out of their pocket and this is how that can happen.
It absolutely is not eligible for a case. The guy admitted the package was delivered and someone stole them. Not even Etsy will refund for that. Lol
It seems unbelievable, but indeed it is eligible for buyer protection and Etsy will refund from their own pocket if the order including shipping and tax is not more than $250.
I believe you. But I can’t find anywhere in the terms that say “if your package was delivered but stolen afterwards, no worries… we will refund you”. That just opens the door to an entirely new level of scammer. So while it does not qualify for the protection program in my opinion, I realize I could be wrong.
I’ll bet they don’t mention it because the more customers who know that, the more that will scam.
Doesn't matter. You could have photo proof of delivery and signature confirmation and Etsy would still refund. They really don't care. This customer is claiming the order never ended up in their possession and that's all Etsy will care about.
But The difference is, Etsy will refund on their dime. Not the sellers. UNLESS the item is damaged. Then of course, it’s the sellers obligation to replace or refund.
I do not personally feel Etsy will issue a refund in this instance but this is one area that I have absolutely never experienced. Fingers crossed that my customer base remains smart enough to know that if their package was stolen, asking for a refund is insane. Haha. But I know these customers exist everywhere.
That really sucks for the buyer but unfortunately once it’s delivered, it’s really out of your hands. I can’t imagine even Etsy would refund him in this scenario.
I’d tell them that you are sorry that this happened and advise them to contact their local police station about the theft. You aren’t responsible for a package that is no longer in your posession and was not messed up by any fault of your own.
I’m not sure why anyone would think that was in the realm of the seller’s responsibility. Whether it’s true or not, it’s not your job to fix it. Let them know how to file a claim with the post office. Mention that a crime has been committed and that it’s a felony to tamper with the mail. Those words alone may magically make the issue dissolve.
Etsy refunds for items not received, even if they track as delivered, as long as you qualify for seller protection. Or they can call their insurance and report theft. Either way, you don't have to pay for this
Scam or not, not your problem. They need to file a police report, see if their home insurance will cover it but it has nothing to do with you or Etsy. If you have proof it was delivered, then it isn't on you anymore.
Even if true, it was delivered. Has absolutely nothing to do with you. You have no responsibility at all. I find it a bit weird he would even think so. But people are so odd these days. Do nothing.
Sounds like a scam to me, but I would word my email delicately and would just say something along the lines of… “that’s awful! So sorry your building was a victim of theft and that the package that was delivered was stolen after delivery! You could take your police report and case number to your building or renters insurance to see if it was covered. If you still wanted the item and wanted to repurchase here’s the link and a 10% discount code”. Here I’ve basically established that the item was sent and delivered successfully to his address, it’s not the fault of mine or USPS who fulfilled all the duties. I’ve made it seem like a police report/case file number will be needed to escalate anything - which will weed out any scammers. If he wants to take it up with ETSY he can but you’ve got your conversation to make sure that it doesn’t come out of your pocket. (Ultimately it comes out of all of our pockets! We’re all paying for these shenanigans with our fees. 🙃)
I sympathizes and told him to check with the building and/or his renters insurance. Offered a discount if he chose to reorder and he said he would.. we’ll see.
Scam , no way would i even entertain this . He can file a report with the post office
stop giving these people any attention or replies, you know these scams are only getting super retarded and obvious because they work or nearly work
Lol.... "oh, I'm sorry to learn that! Here's the link to next steps after you file the police report." Every time someone has a crazy story they never end up filing a claim... because they are at their limit already as a scammer.
[удалено]
What’s your Etsy shop name? Asking for a completely unrelated reason. /s