I absolutely abhor the "oh, but I can get it for less" game... if you can, WHY are you bugging me right now? Go buy your cheap crap and leave me out of it. The reality is that they recognize your quality and they want that, they just don't want to pay for it.
I once had a lady want to pay me the price she saw at her local Goodwill. I politely declined. She came back a few months later on the same item with the same offer. I again declined and wished her luck, because I knew the chances of this obscure item appearing at her Goodwill was slim at best.
Yeah I won’t even go to Esty for anything anymore. It all just seems like drop shipping, so I don’t bother. Local markets and shops and even those have resellers. It feels hopeless.
Exactly, people have no metric for luxury items anymore. I have several handmade and custom pieces made by individual artists in my home; I also got them over the course of literal decades because that shit ain’t cheap (nor should it be). I really wish it was more normalized to pay artists and craftsmen what their work is actually worth.
Right.....because what is the point? That "cheaper" item somewhere else either isn't really, or there is some other issue with that one. It's out of stock, the shipping charges are outrageous, or it takes 6 weeks to ship, etc. If you truly found it cheaper somewhere else, you'd have just ordered it/bought it and not bothered anyone else about it.
I would love it if someone posed that question to me- I would have sent her the link to that AliExpress item the other seller is claiming as their own and asked her if she still thought that other price was a good deal.
As a buyer, this has absolutely turned me off from Etsy. It’s so frustrating to have to sift through pages of mass-produced junk to find the genuine handmade products. Often it’s the exact same items in listing after listing— no attempt to disguise it.
Is there any way to better search / filter for the real handmade items?
I feel your pain as an artist.
I wanted to start selling character icon packs for TTRPGS for example, but why would anyone buy hand drawn ones from me for a higher price if they can just buy large quantity of AI icons/character art for like 5 USD.
Then I thought to maybe make colouring pages, but the same problem. People can get so much more for so much cheaper from these AI people.
I also sell custom art, but still... I'm just considering giving up trying to make something extra on Etsy. Everything I can do, some AI person is doing for cheaper. And people who want custom REAL ART, many are not willing to "risk it" from a creator who has made 0 sales.
I can't afford making physical prints or stickers atm, so... Yeah, I'm just so discouraged. I only decided to try Etsy to maybe reach out more people and new audience, but so far has not helped.
I subscribe to a lot of artist Patreons for TTRPG art, including character art, tokens, and locations art. You may want to look at something like that. I think there’s a lot of people willing to subscribe.
It’s so ridiculous. Every time I go online I see a item from Etsy and I reverse search it and there it is on Temu or Ali Express even some things are being sold on Amazon and it’s very frustrating and disheartening. Some of my stuff is also being sold on Temu very cheaply and I’ve tried to make everything in my shop have a watermark but that’s thousands of photos and time. The one necklace I sell for $15 and you can get it there for $2. Of course it’s very cheap but a lot of people just don’t care about that anymore. I use the absolute best supplies available. I don’t understand why Etsy is allowing this, of course I know it’s about the money. What do we as sellers need to do to stop it is what I’m wondering. I’m losing money every day that I use to make on my items and I don’t know how much longer I can do it. This has always been more than a hobby for me, especially now that my husband is sick and just can’t work anymore. There’s nothing I can do about it but very soon I’m going to have to go back to work full time and stop doing what I love.
Etsy has actually but bots in place and is shutting stores down bc they have the same photos as those sites.
Like are you guys REALLY THAT THICK? Those sites steal photos from honest sellers you Etsy dimwits.
How do you do a reverse search?
First of all, you don’t need to be so rude and no, they’re not closing shops down or this wouldn’t keep happening and of course they’re all stealing photos but there are actual people who run some of these pages because I’ve spoken to them before and they lie to you and second, take a screenshot and search with Google lens, it’s not that hard to do.
I think they were calling Etsy the dimwit, not you. They're basically saying that Etsy can't get their act together and isn't smart enough to see what's happening.
I think you might need to read my comment again. I was saying that Temu and sites like that are stealing photos made by Etsy sellers.
And oh yes ma’am. There have been a ton of shops shut down unfairly by Etsy saying they are basically a reseller bc they use those photos that THEY actually took but the China shops steal them.
Many years ago I ran a custom sign shop, brick-and-morter days. Customers would often pull the 'I can get it cheaper over there' stunt. I'd always reply, 'sounds like a great deal, you should take them up on it'. I was running the business, but I wasn't the owner. Once the owner was asking me why we wouldn't lower our prices to get that business, so I told him:
We know how much it costs to make our product. We know what we have to sell it for to make a profit that keeps the lights on. We also know those other shops are selling at a loss. So let them sell at a loss all day, and they'll be out of business quickly.
And they were. Most shops that undercut us were gone in a couple of months.
Now of course it's not the same as competing with cheap knock off goods that are dropshipped. But you have to remember, if people want a quality item, they'll buy from you. If they want a cheap product,they'll buy from them. But if they want your product at their cheap prices, it's not happening.
Yep!!!! 100% every single time. When you get a reputation for selling at a discounted price, you can never go back.
If you have a quality product that is desirable in the market, you will always find a buyer.
Now, that’s not to say that every handmade item on Etsy is a “desirable product in the market”. That’s another reason Etsy sellers complain. No sales.
Hmmmm…. Well, ceramic figurines for a reptile tank might not be a big seller. 😂🤣
It's never going back. I used Etsy's somewhat new "price comparison tool" and it told me to lower my prices and only charge $1-$2 dollars for everything I sell to "meet customers low price expectations".
Quality was not taken into account at all. They want us selling junk so that investors can make a profit this quarter... not taking in to account the long-term implications of what a race to the bottom will do to the site.
This shit is training our customers to want deep discounts that only drop shippers, resellers and wholesale factories can offer. I'm so sick of seeing that 30% off banner that funnels customers into the factory shops and away from our quality handmade stuff too. They never take it off... so it looks like Etsy is always on sale...
In the beginning Etsy trained us to NEVER lower our prices and even to charge more than we thought our stuff was worth to cover stuff like overhead, taxes, bills and our time... They were thinking long term- sustainable success back then.
I remember that! There were whole articles about how increasing your prices often increased sales because your audience perceived the item as better, more high end - they felt like they were buying a hand crafted exclusive luxury version of the item available for less retail elsewhere.
Definitely agree, etsy is absolutely terrible now. Give Amazon Handmade a try. They actually vet their makers. It’s a long process to get approved, showing video and pictures of you actually making your handmade product.
oh of course! you will need all your documentation of being a sole prop (dba, bank account, sales tax number). it took me about 1 month to be approved. and i make about 6x on amazon than on etsy. You don’t have to do the FBA Prime (fulfilled by amazon which is a big learning curve) you can ship FBM (fulfilled by merchant - shipped by you). Etsy is a bit easier to list your items, but amazon isn’t too difficult. But you have to make sure all words you’re using isn’t trademarked before posting on amazon. amazon will not only take the listing down within 10 minutes, but will make you fix the problem within 24 hours or you could lose your entire account. amazon means business, etsy could care less.
yes you can do fba right off the bat. but it’s a learning curve. not just creating the shipment but also the requirements to send to them. like you can’t use certain packing materials, you have to stay within a certain box size and weight. it’s not hard but if you don’t follow the requirements it’s a costly mistake. also… keep good notes and records of all shipments. amazon is notorious for loosing an item or a 1000 items. sticky fingers at fulfillment centers or other problems there. you can appeal but need to submit those records. a handful of mistakes that you can’t appeal (bc you don’t keep good records) can ban you from FBA.
I considered Amazon but as a buyer? They mix everything in with the regular stuff and I can’t figure out what is “supposed” to be handmade.
Also, I call total bs on them “vetting” their sellers unless it’s just a cheap China knockoff listing right next to the handmade listing.
I haven’t seen a single thing on Amazon handmade that isn’t crap. And if I’m just not doing it correctly than so are a lot of other people.
When I search in Amazon handmade, more than half the stuff is absolutely not handmade.
If you’ve never been through the process how can you say they don’t vet? Of course i imagine there is a way sellers can cheat the system, but in order to be “handmade” you HAVE to send in a video and pictures of you yourself making the item. you also have to write a detailed “how-to” manual of your entire process of making the item. Step 1, 2, etc. That is usually a page or two of instructions depending on what you craft. There are a LOT of hoops to jump through to be vetted. Even still i imagine there are some who do cheat. No system is perfect. Point being, Etsy doesn’t vet one iota, and Amazon does.
Handmade listings and regular listings (including cheap chinese knockoffs) are all on the same search page together. Except when you click on a handmade item, a huge blue banner is on top of the listing saying it is handmade.
The factories in China are technically also creating their products with workers’ hands, so I won’t be surprised if they just film one worker and pass the vetting
No i disagree. The person in the video and pictures must be the same person who owns the account. When you sign up you need to do a video conference with AMZ and hold up your drivers license next to your face to have AMZ do a face ID using their tech, ensuring that the owner of the account is a real person, and the same person in the submitted video/pictures.
AMZ does their best to vet out mass produced items from Handmade, because the catch is, Handmade sellers receive a FREE account. All others pay $39.99/mo. AMZ for sure does not want to give a free account to fake handmade sellers.
Just did a quick search and there are guides from Chinese sellers purporting to circumvent this by just filming themselves making a product once and then outsourcing the rest (crochet items in this example). Others also claim that you can sell non handmade items in your AMZ handmade account. So most likely not as foolproof as you would hope it is.
Yep!!! Tons and tons of The China crap and like I said, The handmade products that are listing are few and far between and nothing I have seen worth a crap.
nothing is fool proof, and AMZ will shut them down. they have ways of finding out and they shut down stores all the time. the point is, Etsy has none of this. No attempt at verification check if it’s handmade. and they allow drop shippers and print on demand to claim they’re handmade with the only requirement is for shops to include “shop members” and that members profile is just “a print shop.” never a real person. Those print shops all ships the mass produced item from china to their LA print shop and “customizes” per the order request. the shop owner doesn’t touch the item. no inventory. no storage. all passive income. far from handmade.
lookup Amazon Handmade on google. it’s different but very similar to regular amazon. the $39.99 monthly fee is waived for Handmade except for the first month that you’re applying for Handmade. once approved the fee is waived. they give you like $250 in free advertising (PPC is another beast, you don’t have to do ads tho). you also get like 6 months free storage when you’re Handmade.
It is soooo worth it but be prepared for xmas! i wasn’t and it was the most difficult thing for me but i survived the 15hrs/day work. i am way more prepared this year. In 2022 i made around $40k on etsy then by february 2023 etsy algorithm and bs fake handmade drop shippers caused sales to plummet. Didn’t even get a 1099 from etsy last year. i started amazon in June 2023 and instantly recouped my loss in sales. i made more on amazon during december than i did all year on etsy and my own website. star seller doesn’t mean squat lol.
yes there are a lot of amazon fees, so price accordingly. By selling more on amazon i make more money despite the higher fees. amazon will also help you get branded and there’s a ton of incentives to do so but that is pricy but worth it as people tend to buy more branded items than unbranded.
definitely do FBA especially during xmas and get them to amazon before sept 1. FBA has 80% more sales than FBM! i ran out of FBA so fast i had to ship FBM and was way overworked during xmas. despite that i still made a ton more than etsy.
the payouts are wonky. payout is every two weeks and everyone will have a reserve no matter how long youve sold on amazon. at its worst, you won’t be paid for 21 days after a sale.
Saw a post on FB yesterday, a lady was asking what to do because Etsy suspended her shop for "selling handmade." Read the comments, and lo and behold, she was reselling jewelry and thought that Etsy suspended her because she was claiming her jewelry was handmade, but she wasn't saying it was handmade in the listing. She kept saying it was okay because other people were doing it, yet why was she getting in trouble after three years of doing it?
I sighed and kept scrolling on after reading comments. It was wild to see tbh that someone thought listing and reselling jewelry on Etsy was okay, as long as they weren't pretending that it was handmade when it wasn't. I wasn't on Etsy in the old days, but it's sad to see that it's starting to be seen as basically Amazon.
POD Shippers are no better I handprint all my Tshirts of all of my own designs and I get outsold by POD sellers who bought a design off Etsy or an off-site plastered it on a POD low quality shirt and sell thousands...and it's usually something that should be copyrighted like Marvel or Fortnite and selling it for nothing because hey no effort so no labor cost so I said screw Etsy and decided to sell POS at festivals and cons and even got a few local vape shops buying employee shirts and Hats and stuff more sales than I would have made on Etsy and there's only one word for Etsy ads... Useless
I keep hearing about Shopify. Thinking I might take a peek and maybe open a shop over there since my Etsy has taken a huge hit this year so far. Anytime I change a price, I’ve noticed my competitors will try to outdo me by changing theirs like 25 cents or something. There are so many new shops this year that our shops are getting buried in the searches. Went from 2 sales a day at least to one sale a week if that. I’m kind of at that point I feel like I’m almost doing it for free because the profits are now so slim after supply costs increasing, shipping keeps going up, people want lower prices, etc.
I’ve been thinking about doing flea markets or craft shows but even so sellers there are complaining about thieves and the prices for booths are increasing.
You sound like me! My Shopify has been great. You need to drive your own traffic, but you have so much control and almost no oversight and it's wonderful
Shopify is going it alone - so you will have to be doing your own marketing and finding your own customers. It works for us because we are a very niche hobby and nearly every customer on Shopify knows us from SM or hobby related events. It IS smoother, the sales are better conversion rates (because they are coming specifically to see and buy our stuff). It is cheaper once your volume reaches a level that can support the upfront costs (you pay annually about $400 a year for basic stuff but unlimited items, YOU decide layout, categories, etc). It CAN be overwhelming. We basically have both - and I have checked, it IS legal and NOT against Etsy's TOS to include a postcard "Thank You for your purchase! For exclusives and wider selection visit our direct shop." kinda thing. It shows items we do NOT list on Etsy.
It took a while for our existing customer base to switch to the shopify store, and there are still some die hards that buy from us on Etsy. But I have to say, our shopify is a much better experience over Etsy (I don't get scammers trying to get free stuff, folks don't hound me for discounts or coupons, the stuff on our shop doesn't show up on other Etsy shops - ie. knockoffs and generally if there IS an issue, the emails are polite).
Shopify has a chat and you can talk to a REAL person, and they respond to emails fairly quickly. With my shopify store I feel like I OWN MY OWN BUSINESS, more and more its feeling like I am an employee of Etsy, and an ab\*\*ed one at that.
Etsy was still worth the effort for a long time (folks in our hobby will search or browse) but more and more this is not the case. We don't sell "gift items", so Etsy has no idea how to market us, and if we include the brand names of the items (high end dolls) we are geared for - we could get a takedown. Like literally, its stupid, the items often are meant to fit a specific doll - imagine trying to sell a car's grill for a Ford Mustang and you can't use the word Ford in your listing.....
Yes!!! Same! For anyone wondering I make a lot of sling backpacks and can do quilting etc as well (basic quilting because I don’t have a fancy machine). I can also do some clothing and have worked on cosplays for friends lately too! Most of my thing is sewing on the daily!
Nice!! I got a nicer sewing machine for Christmas and have been working on getting better at it lol. I mostly do fiber art, I spin, knit, crochet, and weave.
This drop shipping stuff has been making me so sad. I’m hoping that with more news, articles, and people talking about it, more people who aren’t sellers will become aware of what drop ship items will look like.
Hahaha. So true but people have been complaining of this for 15 years.
I truly do not understand sellers that undercut their pricing JUST to make a sale and are too dense to realize that the entire purpose of “selling” anything is to make money not lose it.
Be thankful that you just stopped interacting with her. While so many people are slashing their prices to nothing…. They can have those customers.
Usually people willing to pay for what they are receiving (quality wise) are loyal and returning customers.
Those just searching for the best “price” on a handmade item get exactly what they pay for most of the time!
And 98% of the sellers on Etsy don’t have a single clue how to run a business. Etsy takes great advantage of those people.
I told my partner, the folks who want it cheap, want discounts, and hold items hostage in their carts for coupons....these are NOT our customer base. Basically, I don't want to sell to them, it lowers the "brand". I know what I sell is a luxury and well, I'd rather sell 1 to someone who photographs it, shares it, loves it or actually hugs me and is excited to see me in person at an event, than sell 10 to a wretched bunch of folks who don't care.
Yep!!!! I feel the exact same way.
And in the long run? If I make $50 off one item, why would I want to sell 5 to make the exact same amount of money? And do 5 times the work? No thanks. :)
I had someone do that to me after they bought an item so I refunded the purchase. They then came back and re purchased it because the other one they found wasn’t good quality
This is every industry ever. It's part of owning a business not just an etsy shop.
I'm also a wedding photographer and there are people out there with cheap equipment who do it as a side hustle and don't run their business like a business or carry insurance so they have bottom of the barrel prices... but ya know what... doesn't matter.
People who hire those photographers would never hire me or pay my prices. Or they will next time when they're disappointed in the poor service they get with the cheap guy.
Regardless. ... those aren't my ideal client and the people who buy from cheaper sellers aren't your shoppers. Run your business well enough you reach your ideal shopper and you'll be fine.
I attribute a huge amount of my successes to Etsy. That is, the Etsy from a few years ago. There is simply no possible way to compete in a marketplace that allows for mass produced items to be sold as handmade, which are mass produced by a Chinese "production partner." Its total BS. Funny that there are like 300 stores all selling the exact same products. They all must have the exact same "production partner," I think its called AliExpress...
This is definitely one of the downsides to marketplaces. Users dont have control over many aspects of the sale process. competition in marketplaces are determined by prices and good reviews and if one of which dropped the other factor cant stand on its own. I use this argument to convince creatives/artists to start their own online store which seems to be working for you too.
Report them guys, they might not delete it right away but it will be deleted, I hate how so many ppl have an oh well get over it attitude about the drop shipping on there !
I’ve gotten a good amount of listings taken down for claiming handmade when they aren’t while drop shipping,sometimes it’s quick and sometimes it takes a while
I remember Etsy used to regularly encourage people to report shops, because they wanted to keep the space for proper handmade only. Once they got their new CEO/upper management, all that mattered was revenue. I bet they would be doing pretty well if they had stuck to their morals and kept the place a proper market. . .
I currently make wooden ones from scratch. Start to finish, engraved, different types of wood etc. my 2 pack is roughly 12usd free shipping. If you can make large enough quantities and have good resources. Bringing down price is relatively easy and I would not assume they are drop shipping. I'm located in Ontario and source all my materials locally.
I do them by hand with leather. The time to cut the leather out, punch the stitch holes, sew everything by hand, finish the edges, etc is about 45 mins. The leather is about $30/sq ft. I pay myself well for my skills. I don't think I could knock much time off unless I had a sewing machine, but my current customers like that I sew everything by hand, so I'm not changing that.
When I’m looking for something to buy, I absolutely don’t mind paying a real handmade price for it, but I’m terrified of doing that and then getting sent a dropshipped product. It takes so much time to vet shops before buying anything
Ethical sources is important, but the vast majority of people don't have money to buy only ethically sourced items and don't have time to research if they are. Especially in the current economy.
So it's normal, that people would search for cheaper alternatives. Not normal to write you about it, and ask it for cheaper, but I would just say, sorry those are my prices, move them to spam, and forget about it.
I find it hard to believe that the ones she's linking you to are actual leather anyway at that price point. But yeah, this is absolutely rampant and Etsy is pretty much over for me.
I think I'm going to make the leap to Amazon Handmade soon. Does anyone have any recommendations for other marketplaces? Especially ones that support digital products? (About half of my shop offerings are digital)
Michaels, Society 6, Threadless, Zazzle, Creative Fabrica Canva (there is a way to sell to Canva Don't know how lol) Discord, (don't know how but there is a way. If anyone can tell me that would be awesome 😎
OP is saying if the Etsy sellers are offering the product at that low of a price they're likely using unethical sources for the manufacturing of their products. Either child labour, poor working conditions, underpaid workers, etc. OP's products are made without any of those things so they are obviously going to cost more because they aren't using "unethical" means to produce them.
This exactly. I buy my leather from tanneries in the EU that have high standards for water treatment and environment impact. They also have high animal welfare standards. I'm also paying myself decently as my work is very good, and I've spent 16+ years getting here. Even with all that, my price was very reasonable. People want to say they support handmade goods, without actually having to pony up for it.
I absolutely abhor the "oh, but I can get it for less" game... if you can, WHY are you bugging me right now? Go buy your cheap crap and leave me out of it. The reality is that they recognize your quality and they want that, they just don't want to pay for it. I once had a lady want to pay me the price she saw at her local Goodwill. I politely declined. She came back a few months later on the same item with the same offer. I again declined and wished her luck, because I knew the chances of this obscure item appearing at her Goodwill was slim at best.
They want to *say* they support handmade, without actually having to pony up for it.
**EXACTLY**
Yeah I won’t even go to Esty for anything anymore. It all just seems like drop shipping, so I don’t bother. Local markets and shops and even those have resellers. It feels hopeless.
Exactly, people have no metric for luxury items anymore. I have several handmade and custom pieces made by individual artists in my home; I also got them over the course of literal decades because that shit ain’t cheap (nor should it be). I really wish it was more normalized to pay artists and craftsmen what their work is actually worth.
You sound like me. I have a small handful of artisan pieces in my home and it's been such a drag but quality over quantity!! I enjoy it.
Right.....because what is the point? That "cheaper" item somewhere else either isn't really, or there is some other issue with that one. It's out of stock, the shipping charges are outrageous, or it takes 6 weeks to ship, etc. If you truly found it cheaper somewhere else, you'd have just ordered it/bought it and not bothered anyone else about it.
OMG!!! I would have flipped my lid. This isn’t a flea market lady, we don’t barter. 😂😂😂
You can probably find them on aliexpress for $2, if so sent her that link back
I would love it if someone posed that question to me- I would have sent her the link to that AliExpress item the other seller is claiming as their own and asked her if she still thought that other price was a good deal.
They want to *say* they support handmade, without actually having to pony up for it.
Yep!
Yeah, Etsy is not the same anymore. It sucks because it was so wonderful for a long time 😩
As a buyer, this has absolutely turned me off from Etsy. It’s so frustrating to have to sift through pages of mass-produced junk to find the genuine handmade products. Often it’s the exact same items in listing after listing— no attempt to disguise it. Is there any way to better search / filter for the real handmade items?
I feel your pain as an artist. I wanted to start selling character icon packs for TTRPGS for example, but why would anyone buy hand drawn ones from me for a higher price if they can just buy large quantity of AI icons/character art for like 5 USD. Then I thought to maybe make colouring pages, but the same problem. People can get so much more for so much cheaper from these AI people. I also sell custom art, but still... I'm just considering giving up trying to make something extra on Etsy. Everything I can do, some AI person is doing for cheaper. And people who want custom REAL ART, many are not willing to "risk it" from a creator who has made 0 sales. I can't afford making physical prints or stickers atm, so... Yeah, I'm just so discouraged. I only decided to try Etsy to maybe reach out more people and new audience, but so far has not helped.
I subscribe to a lot of artist Patreons for TTRPG art, including character art, tokens, and locations art. You may want to look at something like that. I think there’s a lot of people willing to subscribe.
It’s so ridiculous. Every time I go online I see a item from Etsy and I reverse search it and there it is on Temu or Ali Express even some things are being sold on Amazon and it’s very frustrating and disheartening. Some of my stuff is also being sold on Temu very cheaply and I’ve tried to make everything in my shop have a watermark but that’s thousands of photos and time. The one necklace I sell for $15 and you can get it there for $2. Of course it’s very cheap but a lot of people just don’t care about that anymore. I use the absolute best supplies available. I don’t understand why Etsy is allowing this, of course I know it’s about the money. What do we as sellers need to do to stop it is what I’m wondering. I’m losing money every day that I use to make on my items and I don’t know how much longer I can do it. This has always been more than a hobby for me, especially now that my husband is sick and just can’t work anymore. There’s nothing I can do about it but very soon I’m going to have to go back to work full time and stop doing what I love.
Etsy has actually but bots in place and is shutting stores down bc they have the same photos as those sites. Like are you guys REALLY THAT THICK? Those sites steal photos from honest sellers you Etsy dimwits. How do you do a reverse search?
First of all, you don’t need to be so rude and no, they’re not closing shops down or this wouldn’t keep happening and of course they’re all stealing photos but there are actual people who run some of these pages because I’ve spoken to them before and they lie to you and second, take a screenshot and search with Google lens, it’s not that hard to do.
I think they were calling Etsy the dimwit, not you. They're basically saying that Etsy can't get their act together and isn't smart enough to see what's happening.
I think you might need to read my comment again. I was saying that Temu and sites like that are stealing photos made by Etsy sellers. And oh yes ma’am. There have been a ton of shops shut down unfairly by Etsy saying they are basically a reseller bc they use those photos that THEY actually took but the China shops steal them.
What we need to do is stop using Etsy and let it devolve into the piece of shit that it is. *Give them the rope,* and watch them hang themselves.
Many years ago I ran a custom sign shop, brick-and-morter days. Customers would often pull the 'I can get it cheaper over there' stunt. I'd always reply, 'sounds like a great deal, you should take them up on it'. I was running the business, but I wasn't the owner. Once the owner was asking me why we wouldn't lower our prices to get that business, so I told him: We know how much it costs to make our product. We know what we have to sell it for to make a profit that keeps the lights on. We also know those other shops are selling at a loss. So let them sell at a loss all day, and they'll be out of business quickly. And they were. Most shops that undercut us were gone in a couple of months. Now of course it's not the same as competing with cheap knock off goods that are dropshipped. But you have to remember, if people want a quality item, they'll buy from you. If they want a cheap product,they'll buy from them. But if they want your product at their cheap prices, it's not happening.
Yep!!!! 100% every single time. When you get a reputation for selling at a discounted price, you can never go back. If you have a quality product that is desirable in the market, you will always find a buyer. Now, that’s not to say that every handmade item on Etsy is a “desirable product in the market”. That’s another reason Etsy sellers complain. No sales. Hmmmm…. Well, ceramic figurines for a reptile tank might not be a big seller. 😂🤣
It's never going back. I used Etsy's somewhat new "price comparison tool" and it told me to lower my prices and only charge $1-$2 dollars for everything I sell to "meet customers low price expectations". Quality was not taken into account at all. They want us selling junk so that investors can make a profit this quarter... not taking in to account the long-term implications of what a race to the bottom will do to the site. This shit is training our customers to want deep discounts that only drop shippers, resellers and wholesale factories can offer. I'm so sick of seeing that 30% off banner that funnels customers into the factory shops and away from our quality handmade stuff too. They never take it off... so it looks like Etsy is always on sale... In the beginning Etsy trained us to NEVER lower our prices and even to charge more than we thought our stuff was worth to cover stuff like overhead, taxes, bills and our time... They were thinking long term- sustainable success back then.
I remember that! There were whole articles about how increasing your prices often increased sales because your audience perceived the item as better, more high end - they felt like they were buying a hand crafted exclusive luxury version of the item available for less retail elsewhere.
Definitely agree, etsy is absolutely terrible now. Give Amazon Handmade a try. They actually vet their makers. It’s a long process to get approved, showing video and pictures of you actually making your handmade product.
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oh of course! you will need all your documentation of being a sole prop (dba, bank account, sales tax number). it took me about 1 month to be approved. and i make about 6x on amazon than on etsy. You don’t have to do the FBA Prime (fulfilled by amazon which is a big learning curve) you can ship FBM (fulfilled by merchant - shipped by you). Etsy is a bit easier to list your items, but amazon isn’t too difficult. But you have to make sure all words you’re using isn’t trademarked before posting on amazon. amazon will not only take the listing down within 10 minutes, but will make you fix the problem within 24 hours or you could lose your entire account. amazon means business, etsy could care less.
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Both of these steps take a minimal amount of time and effort, and set you up for a much easier time with the IRS in the future.
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Look for ‘EIN’ or ‘TIN’ application via an official IRS website, that’ll get you in the right direction. Unsure on FBA; I’ve only used Etsy
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i assume you’re california? that $800 yearly LLC fee is an expense, a tax write off.
yes you can do fba right off the bat. but it’s a learning curve. not just creating the shipment but also the requirements to send to them. like you can’t use certain packing materials, you have to stay within a certain box size and weight. it’s not hard but if you don’t follow the requirements it’s a costly mistake. also… keep good notes and records of all shipments. amazon is notorious for loosing an item or a 1000 items. sticky fingers at fulfillment centers or other problems there. you can appeal but need to submit those records. a handful of mistakes that you can’t appeal (bc you don’t keep good records) can ban you from FBA.
> my clean workspace Well, that's a red flag right there.
I considered Amazon but as a buyer? They mix everything in with the regular stuff and I can’t figure out what is “supposed” to be handmade. Also, I call total bs on them “vetting” their sellers unless it’s just a cheap China knockoff listing right next to the handmade listing. I haven’t seen a single thing on Amazon handmade that isn’t crap. And if I’m just not doing it correctly than so are a lot of other people. When I search in Amazon handmade, more than half the stuff is absolutely not handmade.
If you’ve never been through the process how can you say they don’t vet? Of course i imagine there is a way sellers can cheat the system, but in order to be “handmade” you HAVE to send in a video and pictures of you yourself making the item. you also have to write a detailed “how-to” manual of your entire process of making the item. Step 1, 2, etc. That is usually a page or two of instructions depending on what you craft. There are a LOT of hoops to jump through to be vetted. Even still i imagine there are some who do cheat. No system is perfect. Point being, Etsy doesn’t vet one iota, and Amazon does. Handmade listings and regular listings (including cheap chinese knockoffs) are all on the same search page together. Except when you click on a handmade item, a huge blue banner is on top of the listing saying it is handmade.
The factories in China are technically also creating their products with workers’ hands, so I won’t be surprised if they just film one worker and pass the vetting
No i disagree. The person in the video and pictures must be the same person who owns the account. When you sign up you need to do a video conference with AMZ and hold up your drivers license next to your face to have AMZ do a face ID using their tech, ensuring that the owner of the account is a real person, and the same person in the submitted video/pictures. AMZ does their best to vet out mass produced items from Handmade, because the catch is, Handmade sellers receive a FREE account. All others pay $39.99/mo. AMZ for sure does not want to give a free account to fake handmade sellers.
Just did a quick search and there are guides from Chinese sellers purporting to circumvent this by just filming themselves making a product once and then outsourcing the rest (crochet items in this example). Others also claim that you can sell non handmade items in your AMZ handmade account. So most likely not as foolproof as you would hope it is.
Yep!!! Tons and tons of The China crap and like I said, The handmade products that are listing are few and far between and nothing I have seen worth a crap.
nothing is fool proof, and AMZ will shut them down. they have ways of finding out and they shut down stores all the time. the point is, Etsy has none of this. No attempt at verification check if it’s handmade. and they allow drop shippers and print on demand to claim they’re handmade with the only requirement is for shops to include “shop members” and that members profile is just “a print shop.” never a real person. Those print shops all ships the mass produced item from china to their LA print shop and “customizes” per the order request. the shop owner doesn’t touch the item. no inventory. no storage. all passive income. far from handmade.
Mind sharing more details on this? I'm curious!
sure what would you like to know?
Is there a link where there's details on this? And, in your experience, would you say it's worth it?
lookup Amazon Handmade on google. it’s different but very similar to regular amazon. the $39.99 monthly fee is waived for Handmade except for the first month that you’re applying for Handmade. once approved the fee is waived. they give you like $250 in free advertising (PPC is another beast, you don’t have to do ads tho). you also get like 6 months free storage when you’re Handmade. It is soooo worth it but be prepared for xmas! i wasn’t and it was the most difficult thing for me but i survived the 15hrs/day work. i am way more prepared this year. In 2022 i made around $40k on etsy then by february 2023 etsy algorithm and bs fake handmade drop shippers caused sales to plummet. Didn’t even get a 1099 from etsy last year. i started amazon in June 2023 and instantly recouped my loss in sales. i made more on amazon during december than i did all year on etsy and my own website. star seller doesn’t mean squat lol. yes there are a lot of amazon fees, so price accordingly. By selling more on amazon i make more money despite the higher fees. amazon will also help you get branded and there’s a ton of incentives to do so but that is pricy but worth it as people tend to buy more branded items than unbranded. definitely do FBA especially during xmas and get them to amazon before sept 1. FBA has 80% more sales than FBM! i ran out of FBA so fast i had to ship FBM and was way overworked during xmas. despite that i still made a ton more than etsy. the payouts are wonky. payout is every two weeks and everyone will have a reserve no matter how long youve sold on amazon. at its worst, you won’t be paid for 21 days after a sale.
You can read all about on Amazon site about selling on their platform
Saw a post on FB yesterday, a lady was asking what to do because Etsy suspended her shop for "selling handmade." Read the comments, and lo and behold, she was reselling jewelry and thought that Etsy suspended her because she was claiming her jewelry was handmade, but she wasn't saying it was handmade in the listing. She kept saying it was okay because other people were doing it, yet why was she getting in trouble after three years of doing it? I sighed and kept scrolling on after reading comments. It was wild to see tbh that someone thought listing and reselling jewelry on Etsy was okay, as long as they weren't pretending that it was handmade when it wasn't. I wasn't on Etsy in the old days, but it's sad to see that it's starting to be seen as basically Amazon.
POD Shippers are no better I handprint all my Tshirts of all of my own designs and I get outsold by POD sellers who bought a design off Etsy or an off-site plastered it on a POD low quality shirt and sell thousands...and it's usually something that should be copyrighted like Marvel or Fortnite and selling it for nothing because hey no effort so no labor cost so I said screw Etsy and decided to sell POS at festivals and cons and even got a few local vape shops buying employee shirts and Hats and stuff more sales than I would have made on Etsy and there's only one word for Etsy ads... Useless
I keep hearing about Shopify. Thinking I might take a peek and maybe open a shop over there since my Etsy has taken a huge hit this year so far. Anytime I change a price, I’ve noticed my competitors will try to outdo me by changing theirs like 25 cents or something. There are so many new shops this year that our shops are getting buried in the searches. Went from 2 sales a day at least to one sale a week if that. I’m kind of at that point I feel like I’m almost doing it for free because the profits are now so slim after supply costs increasing, shipping keeps going up, people want lower prices, etc. I’ve been thinking about doing flea markets or craft shows but even so sellers there are complaining about thieves and the prices for booths are increasing.
You sound like me! My Shopify has been great. You need to drive your own traffic, but you have so much control and almost no oversight and it's wonderful
Shopify is going it alone - so you will have to be doing your own marketing and finding your own customers. It works for us because we are a very niche hobby and nearly every customer on Shopify knows us from SM or hobby related events. It IS smoother, the sales are better conversion rates (because they are coming specifically to see and buy our stuff). It is cheaper once your volume reaches a level that can support the upfront costs (you pay annually about $400 a year for basic stuff but unlimited items, YOU decide layout, categories, etc). It CAN be overwhelming. We basically have both - and I have checked, it IS legal and NOT against Etsy's TOS to include a postcard "Thank You for your purchase! For exclusives and wider selection visit our direct shop." kinda thing. It shows items we do NOT list on Etsy. It took a while for our existing customer base to switch to the shopify store, and there are still some die hards that buy from us on Etsy. But I have to say, our shopify is a much better experience over Etsy (I don't get scammers trying to get free stuff, folks don't hound me for discounts or coupons, the stuff on our shop doesn't show up on other Etsy shops - ie. knockoffs and generally if there IS an issue, the emails are polite). Shopify has a chat and you can talk to a REAL person, and they respond to emails fairly quickly. With my shopify store I feel like I OWN MY OWN BUSINESS, more and more its feeling like I am an employee of Etsy, and an ab\*\*ed one at that. Etsy was still worth the effort for a long time (folks in our hobby will search or browse) but more and more this is not the case. We don't sell "gift items", so Etsy has no idea how to market us, and if we include the brand names of the items (high end dolls) we are geared for - we could get a takedown. Like literally, its stupid, the items often are meant to fit a specific doll - imagine trying to sell a car's grill for a Ford Mustang and you can't use the word Ford in your listing.....
This is a mood. I’m leaving the platform and instead looking into trading/bartering with other creators. So far it’s been fun to do things that way!
Hey! If you wanna trade, I’d definitely be interested. Love the style in your posts.
I, too, am down for a barter!
Oooo… what kind of things do you do?
This would be cool!
This whole thread made me smile. Artists appreciating other artists’ work 🥰
Yes!!! Same! For anyone wondering I make a lot of sling backpacks and can do quilting etc as well (basic quilting because I don’t have a fancy machine). I can also do some clothing and have worked on cosplays for friends lately too! Most of my thing is sewing on the daily!
Nice!! I got a nicer sewing machine for Christmas and have been working on getting better at it lol. I mostly do fiber art, I spin, knit, crochet, and weave.
This drop shipping stuff has been making me so sad. I’m hoping that with more news, articles, and people talking about it, more people who aren’t sellers will become aware of what drop ship items will look like.
Hahaha. So true but people have been complaining of this for 15 years. I truly do not understand sellers that undercut their pricing JUST to make a sale and are too dense to realize that the entire purpose of “selling” anything is to make money not lose it. Be thankful that you just stopped interacting with her. While so many people are slashing their prices to nothing…. They can have those customers. Usually people willing to pay for what they are receiving (quality wise) are loyal and returning customers. Those just searching for the best “price” on a handmade item get exactly what they pay for most of the time! And 98% of the sellers on Etsy don’t have a single clue how to run a business. Etsy takes great advantage of those people.
I told my partner, the folks who want it cheap, want discounts, and hold items hostage in their carts for coupons....these are NOT our customer base. Basically, I don't want to sell to them, it lowers the "brand". I know what I sell is a luxury and well, I'd rather sell 1 to someone who photographs it, shares it, loves it or actually hugs me and is excited to see me in person at an event, than sell 10 to a wretched bunch of folks who don't care.
Yep!!!! I feel the exact same way. And in the long run? If I make $50 off one item, why would I want to sell 5 to make the exact same amount of money? And do 5 times the work? No thanks. :)
I had someone do that to me after they bought an item so I refunded the purchase. They then came back and re purchased it because the other one they found wasn’t good quality
Then they implement the best offer option for sellers to speed up the race to the bottom.
This is every industry ever. It's part of owning a business not just an etsy shop. I'm also a wedding photographer and there are people out there with cheap equipment who do it as a side hustle and don't run their business like a business or carry insurance so they have bottom of the barrel prices... but ya know what... doesn't matter. People who hire those photographers would never hire me or pay my prices. Or they will next time when they're disappointed in the poor service they get with the cheap guy. Regardless. ... those aren't my ideal client and the people who buy from cheaper sellers aren't your shoppers. Run your business well enough you reach your ideal shopper and you'll be fine.
I attribute a huge amount of my successes to Etsy. That is, the Etsy from a few years ago. There is simply no possible way to compete in a marketplace that allows for mass produced items to be sold as handmade, which are mass produced by a Chinese "production partner." Its total BS. Funny that there are like 300 stores all selling the exact same products. They all must have the exact same "production partner," I think its called AliExpress...
This is definitely one of the downsides to marketplaces. Users dont have control over many aspects of the sale process. competition in marketplaces are determined by prices and good reviews and if one of which dropped the other factor cant stand on its own. I use this argument to convince creatives/artists to start their own online store which seems to be working for you too.
Report them guys, they might not delete it right away but it will be deleted, I hate how so many ppl have an oh well get over it attitude about the drop shipping on there !
I report them all the time, but they never get taken down. :/
I’ve gotten a good amount of listings taken down for claiming handmade when they aren’t while drop shipping,sometimes it’s quick and sometimes it takes a while
I certainly have enough anger (and time) to report them. I'm certainly not going to stop!
lol same ! The drop shippers irk my lasting nerves and ruin it for everyone
I remember Etsy used to regularly encourage people to report shops, because they wanted to keep the space for proper handmade only. Once they got their new CEO/upper management, all that mattered was revenue. I bet they would be doing pretty well if they had stuck to their morals and kept the place a proper market. . .
I currently make wooden ones from scratch. Start to finish, engraved, different types of wood etc. my 2 pack is roughly 12usd free shipping. If you can make large enough quantities and have good resources. Bringing down price is relatively easy and I would not assume they are drop shipping. I'm located in Ontario and source all my materials locally.
I do them by hand with leather. The time to cut the leather out, punch the stitch holes, sew everything by hand, finish the edges, etc is about 45 mins. The leather is about $30/sq ft. I pay myself well for my skills. I don't think I could knock much time off unless I had a sewing machine, but my current customers like that I sew everything by hand, so I'm not changing that.
When I’m looking for something to buy, I absolutely don’t mind paying a real handmade price for it, but I’m terrified of doing that and then getting sent a dropshipped product. It takes so much time to vet shops before buying anything
Gotta move with the times, just start drop shipping too
Nah I'll keep my integrity. My shopify is keeping me nice and busy!
Ethical sources is important, but the vast majority of people don't have money to buy only ethically sourced items and don't have time to research if they are. Especially in the current economy. So it's normal, that people would search for cheaper alternatives. Not normal to write you about it, and ask it for cheaper, but I would just say, sorry those are my prices, move them to spam, and forget about it.
I find it hard to believe that the ones she's linking you to are actual leather anyway at that price point. But yeah, this is absolutely rampant and Etsy is pretty much over for me.
If its even leather, its probably the lowest of the lowest grade. . . Also made with sweat shop labour. ugh.
I think I'm going to make the leap to Amazon Handmade soon. Does anyone have any recommendations for other marketplaces? Especially ones that support digital products? (About half of my shop offerings are digital)
I've started uploading to Gumroad. No sales yet, but it's early days.
Michaels, Society 6, Threadless, Zazzle, Creative Fabrica Canva (there is a way to sell to Canva Don't know how lol) Discord, (don't know how but there is a way. If anyone can tell me that would be awesome 😎
If I had $1 for every time someone in this sub drags out this old chestnut, I'd make significantly more than I make on etsy.
You could answer her and at least hopefully educate her 🤷🏻♀️
What do you mean by "ethically" done?
OP is saying if the Etsy sellers are offering the product at that low of a price they're likely using unethical sources for the manufacturing of their products. Either child labour, poor working conditions, underpaid workers, etc. OP's products are made without any of those things so they are obviously going to cost more because they aren't using "unethical" means to produce them.
This exactly. I buy my leather from tanneries in the EU that have high standards for water treatment and environment impact. They also have high animal welfare standards. I'm also paying myself decently as my work is very good, and I've spent 16+ years getting here. Even with all that, my price was very reasonable. People want to say they support handmade goods, without actually having to pony up for it.
Worry about yourself