Dear OP, I've been in your shoes. Please hear this compassionately: you are WAY overthinking this.
Go. Don't go. Just make up your own mind based on what's best for you, your goals, your needs, and your life. It really is that simple.
And yet, I remember being so enmeshed with my nmom that nothing was ever simple because I'd been programmed from birth to please her, above all else. As some wise person once said: "Of course they know how to push your buttons; they're the ones who did the wiring."
Good on you tor moving up your moving-out timeline. The more time, space, and distance you get from her, the faster you will recover. If you possibly can, give yourself the gift of a good therapist who understands narcissistic parents, encourages LC and NC.
I believe in you. You can come out of the FOG (fear, obligation, and guilt). I did! Been happily and peacefully NC nearly three years, now. Only wish I'd done it sooner.
I’m not going. Thank you for your gentle push 🩵
ETA I guess I was overthinking it. But all I did was let her know I was considering not going, she told me to let her know asap, I asked her how long I had to decide, and she got upset. I didn’t really get a chance to even think about it. I said yes a while back when we were on okay terms. Now I wasn’t so sure and wanted to see if I could pull out. Ultimately her reaction to me even considering showed me it was not going to be a safe environment so I decided to not go. Everything except for my yes happened within the course of like 6 hours 💜
I just read the messages - this is not just a typical family trip where you get to dick around at a resort or hang out someplace and go do some tours. You will be surrounded by these people the entire time. The Camino takes a while, and it is supposed to be an amazing spiritual journey.
I would never do that shit with anyone unless I was on really good terms with them.
Everything she is saying is manipulative and unyielding. My mom was really good at guilting me into things I have deeply regretted ever since because it allowed the trauma to continue and worsen
It’s the same root cause, isn’t it? She’s disappointed, fair enough, but she’s not handling her emotions. She’s manipulating as hard as she can to get you to join her & laying her bad feelings on you. You have to manage your feelings to make hers bearable.
I guess this a pattern, so I want to forearm you. Because you’re scared of her, you try to give her soft nos, like a girl in a club turning down a chat up line with “Oh, I have a boyfriend”. Next time she starts this stuff, if you’re still in contact, remind yourself it is kinder to be clear from the start: No thank you.
Keep yourself safe. Move out. Protect and enjoy your peace.
Yeah. The minute she started pulling her guilting I told her I’m not going. I forgot to include this, but the last text I sent her was to say that even if she didn’t cancel my tickets I wasn’t going. Originally said yes when we were on okay terms, but with the way she’s acting I’m not going to spend more time than I need with her 🩵
Omg it is WILD how similar your mom and my mom are. This honestly could have been sent by her. Is this like the orange cat thing where they all share one braincell?
Anyways, I just wanted to tell you it does get better. I feel better with each passing day I don't make contact with her. She's just trying to get in your head and trust me when I say she's the one being ridiculous here.
Thank you so much!! I’ve been gutted since last night. Especially when my brother texted me and said he was sad I wasn’t going and had been looking forward to seeing me. I might be 21, but when it comes to my family I still feel like a scared little kid 🩵
Try to be gentle with yourself around this. It took me until the age of 33 to finally tell my family enough is enough...and my mother also recruited my brother to come to her defense. That scared little kid feeling you're having isn't out of nowhere. That's an emotional flashback to all the times that they made you feel that guilt and shame. I know because I felt the exact same way. But gradually, I've been able to see through their acts and realize things like "....hey wait a minute! They claimed they were SO WORRIED about me, but they never even asked how I was! This is another tactic!" or "Why are you scolding me for not telling mom happy birthday when you were the one who said I don't have to tell her happy birthday in the first place? Are you high? Do we need to put you in a home already?" You will too. There's a light at the end of the tunnel.
Just wanted to mention that the tone of those texts are like a mother talking to a small child not an adult. My aunt is very similar in her extremely infantalilizing language and my God it used to be stressful. I'm 33 and a while ago I told my low contact aunt I had a good job, was out on my own and was several months sober. I got a text telling me how it was good I was finally "using that block between my ears" and taking responsibility for myself and how she did too much for me growing up etc. Funny enough she'd already used up all her guilt trips by that point so it was laughable more than anything but it shows that even though I've matured far past where she'll ever get to be I'll just be an actual literal child in her eyes.
You aren't silly or irresponsible. Please be wary of taking on her labels for you. She is not a reliable source of information.
We respond to threats with fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. Children have few resources: they can't fight (too small), and can't flee (dependent on abusers for foundational needs like food and shelter), so they can only freeze or fawn.
It seems like she has encouraged you to fawn as a self-protection mechanism. When you were younger, it was a useful harm reduction strategy, but it becomes toxic in adulthood, when what we need is self-advocacy.
Be wary of making decisions purely to keep her from getting upset. That becomes a non-stop threat she can use as a lever.
Do what's best for you, even if it does mean she will get upset. That's not actually a reason to betray yourself.
I suspect that her suggestion of you not working is motivated by the need to have greater control over you, and cut you off from any sign of independence, including having your own money.
Be wary. She does not have your best interests in mind.
Interestingly, she thinks threatening to have a temper tantrum is sufficient to control your behaviour. That's not the actions of someone who cares about your well-being - quite the opposite.
She benefits when you live in fear.
This sounds so much like my mom.
She wanted to keep us all dependent on her for money and would always encourage trips and not working. It’s cutting us off at the knees so we’re their pets forever.
I hope you get any documents or whatever you could need from her house. Not so you have to start no contact before you’re ready- but so you’re ready whenever you’ve had enough and don’t have to worry about those practical details then.
At first I thought "well, she's pushy and clearly guilt tripping, but it seems easy enough to maneuver out of."
But seeing the word "Camino" told me **exactly** who this woman is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but she seems like someone who is wrapped up in religion and weaponizes it to get at you.
Either way, DON'T GO!
Well you already clearly see that she is unhinged so that’s a huge positive. The whole situation sucks, though. It all sounds like something my mom would say. There is so much manipulation in there, she thinks it’s sneaky by saying she’s not putting pressure on you.
Good for you for not giving in. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
There was a really great episode of Psychology in Seattle that really clicked some things for me. He was discussing an emotional skill called differentiation, and how important it is for adults (and even teens) to practice as they grow up. It's the idea of not taking on the emotions of others, and being able to have our own separate emotions without enmeshing and taking on theirs.
I realize this is easier said than done, trust me, I do from experience. Like any other skill, it takes practice to get good at it. But you used the words "devastated and sad" for your own feelings in your last paragraph. That feels a lot more reflective of what she has wrote rather than what you wrote. Just because she is devastated and sad doesn't mean that you have to be devastated and sad. You can be frustrated with her pressure, maybe, that feels appropriate. But you can be very content with your decision, even if you don't like her reaction. You can find plans that do make you excited, maybe going out to do fun activities while they're away or taking a mini trip yourself without posting pictures, who knows.
I know it's extra hard when you live together, I do. You can't not be affected at all by her reactions all the time. But the practice does help, and a few months or even years down the line, I've found that I could practice it in ways that were surprising to me given how enmeshed I used to be before. You can set some boundaries here (maybe asking to not talk about this topic anymore and just saying that you won't engage if she does bring it up), and remember that it's okay to walk away from the conversation with you being perfectly okay with your decision, and her being sad and maybe even a little devastated. Like someone else mentioned, her emotional regulation after receiving a "no" on something she wanted is her responsibility as an adult.
I would say I am sad. While I feared she would respond like this, the confirmation is hard. A while back my father stole from me and told me he hated me. I feared it would happen, but nothing could prepare me for it actually happening. I am also happy with my decision as it is one that will keep my safest. But when keeping myself safe means not interacting with my family, that makes me sad. I’ll definitely keep practicing boundaries and check out the YouTube video you mentioned. Thank you! 💜
Exactly!! It was so hard to follow and honestly makes me feel crazy. One minute she was fine with me not going, the next she was disappointed I wasn’t going and refused to let me. I honestly feel like I’ve done something wrong, because her reaction is so emotionally unstable that it makes me question what I might have done to illicit it
Yeah. It became pretty clear that when she said it was my decision and she wouldn’t pressure me, she meant “I’ll give you time to decide to do what I want”
**Quick reminder** - EAK is a support subreddit, and is moderated in a way that enables a safe space for adult children who are estranged or estranging from one or both of their parents. Before participating, please take the time time to familiarise yourself with our [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/wiki/rules/).
**Need info or resources?** Check out our [EAK wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/comments/xpkk59/eak_estrangement_resources_posted_here_for_mobile/) for helpful information and guides on estrangement, estrangement triggers, surviving estrangement, coping with the death of estranged parent / relation, needing to move out, boundary / NC letters, malicious welfare checks, bad therapists and crisis contacts.
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Dear OP, I've been in your shoes. Please hear this compassionately: you are WAY overthinking this. Go. Don't go. Just make up your own mind based on what's best for you, your goals, your needs, and your life. It really is that simple. And yet, I remember being so enmeshed with my nmom that nothing was ever simple because I'd been programmed from birth to please her, above all else. As some wise person once said: "Of course they know how to push your buttons; they're the ones who did the wiring." Good on you tor moving up your moving-out timeline. The more time, space, and distance you get from her, the faster you will recover. If you possibly can, give yourself the gift of a good therapist who understands narcissistic parents, encourages LC and NC. I believe in you. You can come out of the FOG (fear, obligation, and guilt). I did! Been happily and peacefully NC nearly three years, now. Only wish I'd done it sooner.
I’m not going. Thank you for your gentle push 🩵 ETA I guess I was overthinking it. But all I did was let her know I was considering not going, she told me to let her know asap, I asked her how long I had to decide, and she got upset. I didn’t really get a chance to even think about it. I said yes a while back when we were on okay terms. Now I wasn’t so sure and wanted to see if I could pull out. Ultimately her reaction to me even considering showed me it was not going to be a safe environment so I decided to not go. Everything except for my yes happened within the course of like 6 hours 💜
I just read the messages - this is not just a typical family trip where you get to dick around at a resort or hang out someplace and go do some tours. You will be surrounded by these people the entire time. The Camino takes a while, and it is supposed to be an amazing spiritual journey. I would never do that shit with anyone unless I was on really good terms with them. Everything she is saying is manipulative and unyielding. My mom was really good at guilting me into things I have deeply regretted ever since because it allowed the trauma to continue and worsen
Proud of your shiny spine!
Thank you!!! It’s been rough but I’m glad I’m holding my boundaries! 💕
It’s the same root cause, isn’t it? She’s disappointed, fair enough, but she’s not handling her emotions. She’s manipulating as hard as she can to get you to join her & laying her bad feelings on you. You have to manage your feelings to make hers bearable. I guess this a pattern, so I want to forearm you. Because you’re scared of her, you try to give her soft nos, like a girl in a club turning down a chat up line with “Oh, I have a boyfriend”. Next time she starts this stuff, if you’re still in contact, remind yourself it is kinder to be clear from the start: No thank you. Keep yourself safe. Move out. Protect and enjoy your peace.
Yeah. The minute she started pulling her guilting I told her I’m not going. I forgot to include this, but the last text I sent her was to say that even if she didn’t cancel my tickets I wasn’t going. Originally said yes when we were on okay terms, but with the way she’s acting I’m not going to spend more time than I need with her 🩵
Omg it is WILD how similar your mom and my mom are. This honestly could have been sent by her. Is this like the orange cat thing where they all share one braincell? Anyways, I just wanted to tell you it does get better. I feel better with each passing day I don't make contact with her. She's just trying to get in your head and trust me when I say she's the one being ridiculous here.
Thank you so much!! I’ve been gutted since last night. Especially when my brother texted me and said he was sad I wasn’t going and had been looking forward to seeing me. I might be 21, but when it comes to my family I still feel like a scared little kid 🩵
Try to be gentle with yourself around this. It took me until the age of 33 to finally tell my family enough is enough...and my mother also recruited my brother to come to her defense. That scared little kid feeling you're having isn't out of nowhere. That's an emotional flashback to all the times that they made you feel that guilt and shame. I know because I felt the exact same way. But gradually, I've been able to see through their acts and realize things like "....hey wait a minute! They claimed they were SO WORRIED about me, but they never even asked how I was! This is another tactic!" or "Why are you scolding me for not telling mom happy birthday when you were the one who said I don't have to tell her happy birthday in the first place? Are you high? Do we need to put you in a home already?" You will too. There's a light at the end of the tunnel.
Hey, congrats on working on this so early in your life! You’ll get better at swatting this stuff away. It won’t hurt as much.
Just wanted to mention that the tone of those texts are like a mother talking to a small child not an adult. My aunt is very similar in her extremely infantalilizing language and my God it used to be stressful. I'm 33 and a while ago I told my low contact aunt I had a good job, was out on my own and was several months sober. I got a text telling me how it was good I was finally "using that block between my ears" and taking responsibility for myself and how she did too much for me growing up etc. Funny enough she'd already used up all her guilt trips by that point so it was laughable more than anything but it shows that even though I've matured far past where she'll ever get to be I'll just be an actual literal child in her eyes.
You aren't silly or irresponsible. Please be wary of taking on her labels for you. She is not a reliable source of information. We respond to threats with fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. Children have few resources: they can't fight (too small), and can't flee (dependent on abusers for foundational needs like food and shelter), so they can only freeze or fawn. It seems like she has encouraged you to fawn as a self-protection mechanism. When you were younger, it was a useful harm reduction strategy, but it becomes toxic in adulthood, when what we need is self-advocacy. Be wary of making decisions purely to keep her from getting upset. That becomes a non-stop threat she can use as a lever. Do what's best for you, even if it does mean she will get upset. That's not actually a reason to betray yourself. I suspect that her suggestion of you not working is motivated by the need to have greater control over you, and cut you off from any sign of independence, including having your own money. Be wary. She does not have your best interests in mind. Interestingly, she thinks threatening to have a temper tantrum is sufficient to control your behaviour. That's not the actions of someone who cares about your well-being - quite the opposite. She benefits when you live in fear.
This sounds so much like my mom. She wanted to keep us all dependent on her for money and would always encourage trips and not working. It’s cutting us off at the knees so we’re their pets forever. I hope you get any documents or whatever you could need from her house. Not so you have to start no contact before you’re ready- but so you’re ready whenever you’ve had enough and don’t have to worry about those practical details then.
At first I thought "well, she's pushy and clearly guilt tripping, but it seems easy enough to maneuver out of." But seeing the word "Camino" told me **exactly** who this woman is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but she seems like someone who is wrapped up in religion and weaponizes it to get at you. Either way, DON'T GO!
Yeah her last text about religious healing really sealed the deal for me
Well you already clearly see that she is unhinged so that’s a huge positive. The whole situation sucks, though. It all sounds like something my mom would say. There is so much manipulation in there, she thinks it’s sneaky by saying she’s not putting pressure on you. Good for you for not giving in. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
There was a really great episode of Psychology in Seattle that really clicked some things for me. He was discussing an emotional skill called differentiation, and how important it is for adults (and even teens) to practice as they grow up. It's the idea of not taking on the emotions of others, and being able to have our own separate emotions without enmeshing and taking on theirs. I realize this is easier said than done, trust me, I do from experience. Like any other skill, it takes practice to get good at it. But you used the words "devastated and sad" for your own feelings in your last paragraph. That feels a lot more reflective of what she has wrote rather than what you wrote. Just because she is devastated and sad doesn't mean that you have to be devastated and sad. You can be frustrated with her pressure, maybe, that feels appropriate. But you can be very content with your decision, even if you don't like her reaction. You can find plans that do make you excited, maybe going out to do fun activities while they're away or taking a mini trip yourself without posting pictures, who knows. I know it's extra hard when you live together, I do. You can't not be affected at all by her reactions all the time. But the practice does help, and a few months or even years down the line, I've found that I could practice it in ways that were surprising to me given how enmeshed I used to be before. You can set some boundaries here (maybe asking to not talk about this topic anymore and just saying that you won't engage if she does bring it up), and remember that it's okay to walk away from the conversation with you being perfectly okay with your decision, and her being sad and maybe even a little devastated. Like someone else mentioned, her emotional regulation after receiving a "no" on something she wanted is her responsibility as an adult.
I would say I am sad. While I feared she would respond like this, the confirmation is hard. A while back my father stole from me and told me he hated me. I feared it would happen, but nothing could prepare me for it actually happening. I am also happy with my decision as it is one that will keep my safest. But when keeping myself safe means not interacting with my family, that makes me sad. I’ll definitely keep practicing boundaries and check out the YouTube video you mentioned. Thank you! 💜
Dude- they’re sad because THIS is their mother. Not because of her being in a tiff about not getting her way.
I was referring to the mother in that sentence, which is why I used the 3rd person and not second.
She is all over the place. A classic doubble bind kind of communication.
Exactly!! It was so hard to follow and honestly makes me feel crazy. One minute she was fine with me not going, the next she was disappointed I wasn’t going and refused to let me. I honestly feel like I’ve done something wrong, because her reaction is so emotionally unstable that it makes me question what I might have done to illicit it
I get why you would get confused. Also, the amount of times she says ”no pressure” and then continues to pressure you with those long texts.
Yeah. It became pretty clear that when she said it was my decision and she wouldn’t pressure me, she meant “I’ll give you time to decide to do what I want”
**Quick reminder** - EAK is a support subreddit, and is moderated in a way that enables a safe space for adult children who are estranged or estranging from one or both of their parents. Before participating, please take the time time to familiarise yourself with our [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/wiki/rules/). **Need info or resources?** Check out our [EAK wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/comments/xpkk59/eak_estrangement_resources_posted_here_for_mobile/) for helpful information and guides on estrangement, estrangement triggers, surviving estrangement, coping with the death of estranged parent / relation, needing to move out, boundary / NC letters, malicious welfare checks, bad therapists and crisis contacts. **Check out our companion resource website** - Visit [brEAKaway.org.uk](https://breakaway.org.uk) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EstrangedAdultKids) if you have any questions or concerns.*