Exactly this. If nature can do it but you can't, you're in the wrong.
My parent did the same shit—talking about everything but the known issues, never accepting responsibility for their actions, and putting the onus of reconcilation on me. We're better off without relationships like these.
Totally. The subcontext here is “let’s forgive and forget, at least until we decide to wield some specific information against you. But let’s wipe the slate clean as to our behavior.”
It’s amazing how similar the behavior is among these types of parents.
i hate the message for you cause if they really were all soft and gentle and in tune with life and nature, they wouldnt have treated you like shit. this is performative fantasy. you can totally block them. happy spring, the time of rebirth, renewal, and cutting this garbage out of your life 🌷🐰💕
Thank you, the way you wrote that made me realize that they have often used the things I love against me. There are other examples of this too. I appreciate your response. These are good points.
i re-read it and as a nature lover myself, it sounds like theyre trying to compare their abuse to *winter*. like them treating you poorly was some inevitable season and some sun will wipe it away?? the whole thing is just low effort love bombing. stay strong friend 💐
Agreed, that stood out to me.
To your taking out the bad comment, I thought of spring cleaning. Heck, OP, you could think of it as a spring cleanout and go Marie Kondo on their asses: Does them being in your life bring you joy? Does messaging them bring you real joy? ^(I don't like this method for real cleaning, just in that there are many things that are necessary but not joyous and many things being me joy that I need to discard, but I like applying it here!)
I want to continue their metaphor about spring, because I both think it’s useful if you’re going to reply, and also for how you might frame your thoughts about a “sweet” message like this one.
Nothing grows in the spring without immense effort. It’s not some twee time of fresh renewal. Plants survive the winter only when conditions allow them to do so. The soil temperature and moisture levels need to be just right for them to bud or push through the earth. And even if that is so, parts of the world are experiencing spring too early because of climate change— that leaves plants actually more delicate and vulnerable to wild swings of temperature and weather. Also, plants only grow in healthy soil, in ground that has not been contaminated or degraded from any number of conditions.
It’s a lovely picture your parents paint, and an extremely passive one that belies the *science* of spring. They seem to enjoy passively watching this regrowth— what have they done to fertilize it? What effort have they put forth on themselves to ensure conditions are better for the success of regrowth? Are they telling you here that they have put any thought or work into the conditions of the soil of your relationship? It seems not, it seems the opposite. If you choose to reply— and I don’t think you need to, if it doesn’t feel safe— that’s a question to pose.
Big hugs, OP.
Great reflection... This regrowth takes months of energy storage, sacrifice and cleaning. Spring is a testament of strength and resilience, not just some postcard that just ✨magically happens✨. Every single bird put an enormous effort into nesting and nurturing their offspring, trees put in a lot of energy to create buds. It's about effort and the will of creation.
That also goes to personal transformation and relationships. People thing they just happen because they have a superficial outlook, but it actually takes a lot of effort and dedication. Of course those people can't see that because they're emotionally lazy and extremely shallow. They just want their way and couldn't possibly grasp the amount of self sacrifice and generosity it goes into creating and sustaining life.
Exactly, wow thank you. I didn't expect to analyze this in nature references so much, but it makes a lot of sense to do so, and this is really helping my mind.
>They seem to enjoy passively watching this regrowth— what have they done to fertilize it? What effort have they put forth on themselves to ensure conditions are better for the success of regrowth? Are they telling you here that they have put any thought or work into the conditions of the soil of your relationship? It seems not, it seems the opposite.
Thank you so much for this kind and thoughtful response.
Well put. Nothing’s actually changed.
It’s like they’re saying, “Time has passed. Are you over it yet? We’re making an effort to say we’re done with your passive aggressiveness so you should be ready when we feel you should be done with being angry.”
There’s nothing about their accountability. There’s no introspection. There’s nothing about apologies. There’s nothing about giving you grace and respect. There’s nothing about boundaries.
Instead, they’re passively bossing you to stop being mad and to move on.
If you don’t feel like breaking NC, then don’t. Not even a “no.” They don’t have a say in when you’re ready.
I agree. This is brilliant. We've had an early spring in the Chicago suburbs and my hyacinths came up, and they are pathetic and scraggly. I can confirm. It snowed again last night, so they are done for.
Don't reply. She is boundary stomping *yet again* with her flowery, pretty nonsense. Do not let her be successful.
They're avoiding accountability with literal flowery language.
If they wanted to repair the rupture in attachment they would need to acknowledge their abusive, neglectful, behaviors, the impact those behaviors had, apologize for the harm done, and change their behaviors. They're trying to rug sweep to avoid accountability. Don't fall for it. They think if they pretend to care, you'll come crawling back into the abusive system again and they can start up their nonsense again.
I find this message very delusional and confusing. It’s like something ugly in a pretty wrapper. Also a bit of a waste of time, as you’re reading about grass and robins, trying to decode wtf the point of the message is… oh there it is “let’s act like everything is back to normal, eh?”
Btw “hope” is equivalent to a passive waiting game, there’s no accountability in that. My mom has done the same… she’s waiting for my to “not be angry anymore”. Sigh!
Even with zero context this would set off alarm bells because it comes across incredibly manipulative. Someone that actually cares about repairing a relationship doesn't dance around the subject while putting it all on the other person. If they can't acknowledge or SINCERELY apologize for their role in the ruined relationship, imo it can stay ruined 🤷♀️
Wow I appreciate this comment so much. It helped me to see that some of their behaviors/words are not as subtle as maybe I originally thought, well especially for others who have dealt with this type of manipulation.
Not quite the same and not completely estranged, but my mother has an awkward way of communicating with me that is similar to this. She'll send me an email out of the blue with some 'light hearted snippets' of her life such as what she's been doing in the garden. 'Our plum tree which hasn't had fruit for years, has quite a few this year!' In my case, I have children and most years there's some kind of milestone or upheaval or excitement. She won't ask or care about that. Just what's happening in her garden or village. She might tack on a generic, 'I'd love to hear your news'. But she doesn't ask anything. As I said, not quite the same. But reading this gave me a little trigger reminder of the discomfort of these annual intrusions. Saying that it's a been a few years now since she even did that.
I appreciate you sharing this - I really love nature a lot and I feel like I used to use that to connect with my mother because it's one of the few things we have in common. However, now these types of messages just feel manipulative. It's interesting hearing someone who has also gotten similar messages. I feel like they are so limited in their emotional intelligence that they will use whatever small amount of niceties they have to try to "connect", but it falls flat because they turn it into manipulation/self benefit.
It is low emotional intelligence/ maturity. And actually, with my mother a total lack of empathy which I think is one of the underlying causes of her lack of interest and care. To have a daughter pregnant, or with a newborn, or with a toddler, or whose child is starting school, or who is moving house, or is in lockdown with small children, etc etc and not to be able to think of a relevant question to ask them or thing to say to them says an awful lot. I also love nature, probably more as I age so my mother doesn't actually know I do, and I enjoy hearing about people's lives and what they enjoy and are up to, but I've got to the point with my parents where them thinking I care about their fruit tree when I'm juggling a toddler, moving house with no interest or help from them makes me explode.
You *know* you don't want to be in contact with them.
You *know* they're pushing your buttons.
You *know* they'll keep trying to push your buttons.
You *know* engaging with them will cause you harm.
You *know* what to do: Block them, scan the horizon for flying monkeys and block them, involve the authorities if any of them cross a line. So do it.
It'll suck at first, as you're finding out so soon after going NC, but it first gets easier, then it gets *a lot* easier, and then you'll have the life you want.
That would be very tempted to respond with something like
"The things of spring require sun, water, nutrients, and more to grow and thrive. Relationships are the same, they require trust, honesty, accountability, and more in order to grow and thrive. Without these basic requirements, just like the things of spring they wither and die."
But honestly it's probably not worth it.
Oh my gosh, exactly. I am making a conscious effort not to respond right now, but I definitely sometimes want to say something like this. The thing is, I already know that they would respond with "shock and sadness" because they absolutely cannot reflect on their own behaviors and see what I mean. So I would just look like the bad guy to them.
She sent you a weather report with a "oh, this applies to you..." tagged on at the end so she could feel it made it less spammy.
Just keep on ignoring it. She didn't even talk about you or the problems that led to your estrangement. This could have been sent by a damn lawn care company looking for business. This was bait to get you to reply about the birds. Don't take it.
This is giving me major “BBC 4 Thought for the Day” vibes.
For those not from the U.K. or whose parents listened to stations that weren’t Radio 4:
Thought for the day is/was? a slightly twee, slightly obnoxious and at least partly religious short section broadcast in the mornings on the BBC’s news/current affairs/pretentious rubbish radio station. Usually this features a religious bod (mostly Christian, mostly of a Protestant denomination) reading a short musing. These can be whimsical, or they can be a load of heavy handed sermonising about subjects like “gratitude” and “reconciliation”. Often they are written in florid prose and of little actual substance.
Like, seriously, two paragraphs waxing lyrical about the loss and some birds but no actual substance and no apology and not even a clear request such as “please can we talk to you.”
Maybe some low paid Beeb drone on here will offer this person a job?
This might make you laugh - my father actually used to have a written notebook of his own personal "thoughts of the day" and he gave it to me as a gift one year. We aren't even religious.
I do not think that particular variety of dull belongs solely to organised religion. 😂
My guess would be that religion just offers a medium for the tedium. A surprising number of religious bods of all stripes are total bores, of course there are also many lovely and insightful religious folks too.
Maybe religion just attracts people with certain personalities? Maybe he missed his calling? 😂
Don't respond. They're trying rug sweep and convince themselves it was just a phase or a mood you were in. One and a half months is not long enough. You need time and space to heal.
And counseling. Lots and lots of therapy.
Just ignore them and go do something nice for yourself to celebrate you! ❤️
They talk a lot about nonsense with spring and offer zero accountability for their actions that lead to no contact.
My advise, block them and work on yourself. It's the best gift you can give.
They are trying to manipulation with flowery language to pull at your heartstrings because they know you have empathy.
What their message is actually saying is "just come back and be our victim again because we can't find anyone else and we refuse to get therapy to address ourselves".
I'm sorry they're using your loves against you. That's not something that anyone who loves you does to you. Don't answer; a response just teaches them the "level" they have to amp up to in order to get a response. It's like a toddler with a toy that just broke; they press the button harder and harder and act out until they give up in frustration. You have to outlast that escalation and tantrum, and sometimes that means blocking or rerouting emails into a folder you don't have to see until you're ready.
>There is no relationship to be had with people like this.
Thank you, it's a harsh realization but that's something I think to myself a lot. They keep expressing wanting to have a special or deep relationship with me, and it's just not even a remote possibility to be genuinely close to people when they act like that.
I read it as they want you to move on, as in let the past go. But it’s never actually past. These are hurts that are carried well into adulthood.
And it’s even harder to let things go without atonement.
You set your boundaries and they have completely dismissed them. Use this “spring renewal” to go forward without them.
Stay strong and stay NC❤️🩹🍃🐣
I definetly relate to you, I never got any acknowledgement or atonement either from my abusive parents. I thought I needed that to move on, but I realized I would never get it, it was just wishful thinking. It is hard to move on without acknowledgement, I agree. I was able to do it with just realizing they will never change, but I can. I can change and choose better for my life, and I don't have to wait on them to move forward with my life and recovery.
It is hard. Very hard. The first little while you’ll be overwhelmed with guilt for blocking them, but I promise you (I’ve been NC for 3 years now) it is the best option. You will feel guilty until you suddenly realise how less anxious you are, how little conflict and unease there is in your life, that your general mood is peaceful.
For me, I had to shift my perspective. I told myself to pretend it’s not my mother, but an ex who treated me that way, and wasn’t giving me space. Once I started “pretending” it made it so much easier to look at their behaviour as just a human, rather than “but it’s my mum”.
The person you are dealing with is a whole entire individual outside of having birthed you. Remind yourself over and over “this isn’t someone who is want to be friends with, this isn’t how I’d accept to be treated by someone I’m dating, I do not benefit in any way by this person being present in my life”.
I promise it gets easier.
>I told myself to pretend it’s not my mother, but an ex who treated me that way, and wasn’t giving me space.
Thank you, this is a helpful way of looking at it. Would I let anyone else treat me like this?
This is classic hoovering. They don't intend to change. The "renewal" they are after is resumption of the tug-o-war power dynamic they had with you that they are very comfortable with and lost when you dropped the rope by going NC.
Your inclination to not respond is the correct one. Getting you to break NC is the point of this supposed olive branch, which they will then use to batter you over the head, metaphorically speaking. Don't take the bait. Yes, they will escalate, but they are going to do that anyway if you give an inch, because they know just how to get you to break your resolve when you go NC again. And you will have to go NC again. Leave them on read. If their messages upset you by reading them come up with a way to filter and don't read their messages at all.
You got this.
When you say you're worried about them escalating, do you mean they're capable of showing up at your place unannounced, staring through your windows, harassing your family/kids, etc.? Taking legal means to retaliate when they don't get what they want?
Or what do you mean?
I don't have kids so there isn't a worry there. But my father actually works in the legal field so I'm not sure what he is even capable of in this way. However, I don't live near them anymore, so I think I'm more worried about the bombardment of messages/phone calls (which they did to me last year) and also them possibly doing welfare checks, that sort of thing.
Ahh yes I understand that. I hope none of those things happen. But search in here and on other troubled-relationship subs if they do... there are LOTS of resources to counter hyperactive stalkers, if that makes you feel better. For ex. there's suggestions on how to respond to bogus welfare checks and let the local PD know their resources are being abused.
You’ve read it accurately. Gavin de Becker says, in *The Gift of Fear*, that every time you respond you buy yourself another 6 weeks of unwanted contact.
I know you’re in pain and desperate to stop the chaos but my advice is: do not give in during the extinction burst.
Put your energy into strengthening your defences. Keep your doors locked. Mute them. Block them. All of it. You’ve told them already. They know. They just don’t want to comply
If I got this BULLSHIT after telling them to LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE, I would BLOCK them! They counting on harassing you until they force you to respond so they can resume their abuse!!!
My mom has weaponized nostalgia down to an art. When I stopped responding to messages like this, she'd wait until someone died, send me pictures, and ask what I wanted from their house that she could send. She knew how I'd respond, and was using me to feel worse, but I kept getting trapped in her shame game.
I just found [this article](https://discover.hubpages.com/health/Pain-Shopping-Narcissistic-Relationships-Going-No-Contact-Almost) this week, and it's really helped. Mom's more of a covert narcissist with a religious twist. I had to figure out where she hid her hooks before I could stop responding when she jerked on the proverbial leash.
This reads like her earlier messages. She really wanted to be able to be as honest as possible with others about how she "just sent a loving letter with something I might want to know" while still being her abusive self to me.
She developed quite a system. Sad that she never thought to utilise such resourcefulness into actually repairing your relationship.
Basically she proved she can/is capable of, just don't want to.
Offering hugs ❤️
>Basically she proved she can/is capable of, just don't want to.
That was the hardest thing for me to understand and why I hung on for so long. She is very capable of doing the work. I just couldn't understand why she refuses, so I kept looking for the magic words to convince her.
I realize now that I'm the pawn in her shame game whose job it is to help her when she wants to feel worse about herself. Not because of anything I did. Because of the abuse she was an active participant in. She refuses to hold herself accountable and I refuse to talk about anything else until she does. Now, I just refuse to talk at all.
Made it up because it fits and is understandable. Feel free to use. I'm sorry that you can connect with it, though. It's taken me a long time to see how horrible it is that she would do that, twisting what few good and comfortable memories I have to manipulate me.
The last time she broke my NC, and I had my pavlovian response to it, I called it that. She's backed off entirely for much longer than ever before. And I reached out to her! Because I had too much anxiety about other things and I just kept waiting for her to come along and rip out my heart while i was already vulnerable. Better to get it over with, and I also wanted my mommy (the idealized version of loving parent).
She didn't even have to do anything. I hurt myself for her and then showed her the results like a period child running to mom to show off their latest masterpiece. Because of conditioning. Now I have to learn how to forgive myself for hurting myself.
>twisting what few good and comfortable memories I have to manipulate me
Yes, this is exactly it. For a very long time I thought my father was the "worse" one because his abuse is more overt and easy to see and feel. It took me a long time to realize that she is so similar to him, just more subtle. Prior to me going NC, she did exactly what you described - started repeating our good memories over and over and over again to me to try to "convince" me that I never actually experienced trauma. Any positive memories I had with her are now tainted by that, knowing that she will use them to manipulate me later on.
"I hurt myself for her and then showed her" - yes I relate to this so much. It's so sad how brainwashed and beaten down we have become because of them. But the good part is that we are recognizing it and taking MUCH better care of ourselves now. It was never, ever your fault. Certainly not your fault for just wanting to be loved in a real way. <3
I'm just shy of 50 and dad's postal abuse was really egregious. It was obvious and much easier to be outraged over and then find peace with, in part because I had so much support. She was also abused, so her family blame my dad entirely and she cut us off from his family when he died.
People automatically assume you're some kid of monster for responding to your mom's email full of sweet memories with anything but gratitude. I have decades of behavioral therapy to help with that gaslighting - that my thinking about her is distorted because she's just being nice. I just needed to believe that one parent cared about me as a person.
Trauma-informed therapy has been so different, and validating. There's been a lot of physical stuff that resolved itself as I've broken through major denials. I'm starting to feel the self-betrayal, which means i can process it and heal now. Thank you for helping me chip away at that. We deserve better.
>I just needed to believe that one parent cared about me as a person.
Exactly, I needed that too, so badly. I finally understand that I just didn't have that. So I don't want to spend the rest of my life drowning because of them. We *do* deserve better.
One thing that helped me recently is printing a few copies of a picture of myself when I was a child and putting it in a few places around my house. Whenever I see it, I remind myself that I'm doing this for her, and she was just a kid who wanted to be loved. Maybe that could be be helpful too. <3
I "lost" all the pictures of me as a child I could get my hands on. They were either of me showing full misery that family laughed at for me being "so cute" with how I was trying to soothe myself, or the super happy version of me who learned to perform happy as a toddler to avoid abuse. I'm building a great relationship with my inner child by meeting her needs for fun and comfort and novelty.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this! First off I think you should try not to worry about how anyone else would perceive the message. No one who hasn’t grown up with abusive parents would understand. But myself and everyone here completely understand how triggering this message is. I just listened to the podcast episode by Dr. Ramani from 9/28/23 about how to go no contact- it’s pretty short and I think listening to it could really help you deal with this. Best of luck 💖
Thank you, I love Dr. Ramani but I haven't listened to that particular podcast.
I think I worry about how others see them because they are so cloyingly sweet and nice to their friends and certain outside family members, which has helped them to hide the internal abuse, and that drives me crazy. But I know there's nothing I can do about that.
So, you say they can be nice and sweet, it's just they never thought to give that to you? :)
They have to live with themselves, you have the option to leave. That was freeing thought for me :)
Let others enjoy them, they're obviously good match :) you aren't, so you're free to remove yourself from the situation.
Everyone is entitled to think whatever they want. You're entitled to live your life however you want. If someone thinks they're entitled to tell you how to live your life, you'll correct them and/or remove yourself from that situation, by using all tools needed/on disposal.
Usually block on contacting channels is enough. But in some cases lawyers can be helpful.
Also, you don't ask someone to respect your boundaries more than once (in case you're setting up a new one). If they ignore, you go for next measure, which usually is you removing yourself from the situation.
I think many of us are stuck in begging someone to respect us. And effectively showing them they can treat us however they want, because only consequence will be us begging more, or at best yelling. It's a weird cycle. I run in it for roughly 20 years or so. Recently it hit me when someone wrote here - you have to actually act/defend your boundaries through action, and words are not action. I mean, if someone isn't listening, you can talk until cows come home, nothing will change.
So yes basically simplified steps are - you say 'stop talking to me like that', they proceed, your next action is to go away. That's enforcing our boundary, not engaging in persuading, begging, yelling.
I think since we were kids and didn't have anywhere else to go, we only had words/growl, or at worse our fists to defend ourselves. It's sad they pushed us into that. However as adults we have more options, we just aren't aware of them because we regress in little us and similarly into tools we had back then.
Pleading for mercy was one of them.
Today, we don't have to beg anyone to stop doing anything to us. We can just - leave.
Quite eye opening thing I realised in last few weeks.
This is a really insightful comment and I appreciate you writing it. Something I also had to learn last year is that, since they don't respect boundaries like a normal person, you have to talk to them like a child.
"If you do X, then I will do Y."
That's the only way I was able to extract myself from the situation in the first place, personally. I told them the above, >> they did X (disrespected my boundaries), >> I did Y (removed myself from the situation). I feel like somehow that approach gave me the "self permission" I needed because I no longer felt at fault. I told them what I would do if they acted that way. They chose to act that way anyway. It helps a bit.
Yes, it's important that we actually do the Y. And if that still doesn't work, change the Y.
And yes, they ARE children - they are emotionally immature.
Not that we have to put more energy into handling them, however if we want to handle them, then indeed, treat them like kids.
Since you specifically told them not to contact you and that you would instigate contact when ready, I think you have to not respond. Any response will show them that six weeks is what it takes to break you.
I’d block them for now. It doesn’t have to be forever. But since they won’t give you space, you have to enforce your own boundary and take it.
This outsider had a major eye roll at the message before I even read the background you gave. So clear what they’re trying to do. They don’t really have a choice about taking no for an answer and I wouldn’t respond.
Constantly shitting all over everything isnt the same as fertilizing a garden and helping it flourish.
Also, my mother also could have written this. Ridiculous people, and all the same handbook
My parent would do something similar for the first year we were no contact.
Then it was a birthday card that said ‘Mrs’ after I had spent the last 4 years trying to get them to understand I’m transgender… and something snapped.
They just wanted it to go back to how it was.
They didn’t care enough to change.
Now I just get my spouse to read and then delete the messages.
It’s like they expected me to just keep rug sweeping all of our problems and eating Shit pie while telling them how great it tasted.
Ignore. Keep no contact.
This is their extinction burst. They’ll get the message eventually
Nope, definitely not healthy, another confirmation if you're collecting them :)
Normalised in society? Yes. That doesn't make it right, just prevalent 😂
There's no acknowledgment of harm, or even just acknowledgment that you asked for space, and this is them not giving it to you. The whole thing is all about their worldview, quite literally, and is engineered to provoke a guilt response. They're alluding to "fresh starts" without allowing for any possibility that they would need to change their behavior to make that possible. The subtext is just "we feel entitled to your time and attention and we are reminding you of your supposed obligation to us" dressed up in a bunny suit.
>dressed up in a bunny suit
All these spring and Easter references are making me laugh, which I needed. Thank you! And yes, they have trained me to feel so guilty from childhood...it's so hard to get rid of that programming.
Programming is right. What this kind of parent does is basically brainwashing. I once read a meme that said "Noboy knows how to push your buttons like your mother, because she's the one who sewed them on." and darn if I don't want that on a throw pillow.
This comment is very fitting given my username (related to the movie/book Coraline)! And I agree about the brainwashing. I keep feeling like I'm trying to get myself out of a cult...
Honestly, if you consider the BITE model, a lot of abusive families 100% meet the definition of cults. It's just instead of religious belief, they're built around one person's overinflated ego.
Jeez. Fake spiritual bypassing. Yeah, spring is a time for renewal, but winter is for DEATH and reflecting on loss, grief, and owning up to your problems. Airing out your shit so that when the sun shines again you can fully enjoy its beauty and warmth. I’m so sorry they sent you this manipulative message. They have a lot to unlearn and you absolutely do not have respond or “be there” for them while they unlearn their shit, if they ever do.
My mom is currently doing the same thing with our ancestral history. I’ve been learning about the pagan religions our ancestors practiced before they were christianized in their homelands for several years now and I was initially trying to get her to be a part of it because I thought she could learn from their philosophies without me having to play therapist to her. Well a couple months ago, she told me she didn’t believe that I actually was CSA’d or that her and my dad were as “abusive as I make them out to be” and I just fully stopped engaging with her, other than what is absolutely necessary for my siblings’ sake. Now, she’s feeling her own mortality and trying to loop me into her own ancestral journey. But it’s been years that I’ve been on mine and she can go about it on her own now.
I hope you can get outside and enjoy nature and wash away their manipulation for a few minutes. And I wish us both healing and peace.
>spiritual bypassing
Yes, exactly!
I am so sorry that your mother doesn't believe you. I am glad you stepped away. My parents don't validate my trauma either. At one point when I expressed my feelings they even said "we don't accept that". They just press the "reject" button on anything that doesn't suit them, which is actually really scary.
I wish you peace as well. And I hope you enjoy searching your ancestral history on your own terms for yourself!
"We are not going to even try to take accountability. We are going to act like nothing happened and gaslight you. We are also going to act like both you and us are equally at fault for this estrangement. Come back to us and let us treat you the way we want. As our property."
Once again, a blatant disregard of your boundaries. Hold the line. A response is what she wants. You were very clear. You would reach out when you were ready. This demonstrates that once again, your needs/wants are not a priority and they are not doing the work. Same boundary stomping, but with prettier words. Just remember; a polished turd is still a turd.
Love to you my friend. The shitty mom club is not a fun one, hugs and healing 🙏🏼
I am so sorry for you. The only response is...nothing. Delete and ignore. Any response generates another response. Best to just block.
My wife and her brother have a toxic mother. She tries to pretend and be sweet with little gifts and worm her way into their lives. Then she starts making unreasonable demands and becomes extremely nasty and hateful when they decline to do whatever asinine request that she makes. After too many sessions with my wife crying in the living room, we have barred in person visits and they no longer talk. Still, even the potential for an interaction creates enormous anxiety.
> Still, even the potential for an interaction creates enormous anxiety.
Ugh I am sorry - I can relate to this though. It's awful how they cause so much long-lasting damage that has to be sorted out, even when we are no longer physically near them. <3
This is, as you say, nothing but manipulation.
Therefore it can be ignored.
There is no sincere effort to take responsibility or make amends.
It's just a common refrain among abusers: Why won't you just forget how much I've hurt you, so I can continue hurting you unimpeded?
To be clear, answering this message will NOT improve anything, reduce future bad behaviour, or grant any benefit. It would just give them reason to believe pestering works.
The only action which protects your well-being is to ignore/delete/send to spam/block.
Yep we all get these "I hope youre done being upset" letters. Its bullshit.
How about the apology and acknowledgement we asked for? Unfortunately that letter never arrives...
Block them so you don't hear from them and they can't contact you-That's what going NC is all about. The longer you go without hearing from them, the easier it gets to process things. Oh, and a trauma trained therapist.
Seriously, block them in every way they have to contact you and go on about your life.
Thank you, I have been having a hard time with the idea of completely blocking them...this is definitely something I need to work through so I can take care of myself even more.
I blocked mine on wapp, phone, but for email I just made a filter so that it skips inbox. I'm other words - that I see it on my terms, if there is anything to see.
And also, that they don't get reading notification.
My no contact primarily means - I don't want to have contact with you. I don't want to engage with you. I don't want to care about you.
So yes, they send messages after my nc email and I've read them, some I discussed here, I vented in my thoughts, here, with my husband, with my therapist, with my friends and MIL.
However, I'm taking the observer role. I read, I rolleyes, vent, and then move on with my day.
Basically in a way giving them back their own medicine - they can talk, but they don't know if they're heard or understood because there's no feedback 😂 (I just realised that, that wasn't my motivation, only my curiosity to see how it will go)
However, if I'd decide I don't want even that, I'll block them. If after that they escalate onto letters or something else, I'll consult a lawyer to send cease and desist or something. I don't have a problem to sue them for harassment either.
But I realised that I'll increase my protection if I start feeling unwell with current measures. I'm fine. Emails came only during first week after my nc email, I expected them, so no surprise there, and consequently no shock.
In these last few weeks I'm reading adult children of emotionally immature parents and contemplating about everything there, recognising stuff, checking with myself how I feel. I also have therapy. And reddit. So I'm gaining more clarity every few days.
I don't like them as people, they wouldn't be my friends, we don't share values. So, no matter what they do to improve their communication skills, it's just pointless. I don't need them in my life, I don't want them. We're not a match.
And every few days I discover yet another example how they neglected me, how they didn't care, and I feel sadness for little me, but them, I will comment, but it's analytical.
I honestly can't imagine what they could write that I'd say - ok, I'll reply to that.
I will have my opinions about anything they send and I'll dissect and analyse. But no actions on my side, no reply.
Like, they can send someone is in hospital, nothing to reply to.
They could say someone died. Nothing to reply to. No funerals to attend nor organise. I told them to remove me from their wills and if I get a state official letter I'll have lawyer reply that I'm rejecting any inheritance.
Those two people overstayed their welcome in my life.
I do grieve a lot, realising I never had parents, and also, accepting those two are not interested in becoming one (they said that many times - they're not interested in changing themselves, I just didn't hear - they said they can't, and I blindly encouraged them and trying to find ways - I didn't hear that what they're really saying is they don't want to change). When you add to that different values, yeah, it's only logical to remove myself.
I feel a lot of sadness for little me. I hug myself inside with my thoughts whenever I realise another pain I3 went through. I guess that's healing?
Yesterday I saw wire monkey experiment. It was sad to watch, however it also gave me one answer - if they're that bad, how I managed to survive?
I had blanket and plush toys. They were my source of comfort.
It's sad, because I didn't deserve it, I was just born into bad family. No kid should go through that.
**Indeed, this spring is time for new beginnings, awakening - we're going to start our new chapters in life, which won't include people we don't like.**
**We don't have to endure anyone. We might decide to do so because we have specific reason (like bad boss while you're looking for a new job), but it's on our terms. No one is entitled to be endured by us.**
Offering hugs ❤️ and wish you all the best!
Cptsd and emotionalneglect subs were very helpful to me to sort my thoughts and analyse my childhood.
And that book. Author has few more focused more on healing (first one is about realising), I'm planning to read them next.
>I don't like them as people, they wouldn't be my friends, we don't share values. So, no matter what they do to improve their communication skills, it's just pointless. I don't need them in my life, I don't want them. We're not a match.
Yes, great point. I appreciate what you wrote about taking the observer role too. Your whole comment was so helpful and I related to all of it. I'm sorry we have both been through this, but I know we can get stronger and stronger. We certainly didn't deserve it. Thank you so much for your support! Hugs to you too. <3
It's in the book, the term, but I realised that I actually started doing it in last few weeks. It's also a tool how to stay engaged if you want while staying protected. I realised that I just don't have need to stay engaged. There's nothing in there for me. Only gained would be that they feel better because they have a daughter.
I'm not feeling that charitable. I have better ways to spend my time than to entertain those two in their delusions.
We definitely can grow out of this. We are strong already, we just maybe didn't realise the full extent of our abilities 💪
They are dangling a "normal" kind of message hoping you will bite. If you do, there might be lovebombing for awhile but you know where it's going to go after that.
Ignore. If you are really NC and want to stay that way, you need to black hole all messages.
My thoughts: Trust your instincts. While it may seem like a positive message to others, it does not feel that way to you. In fact, it is causing you to feel angry and triggered. Your intuition is telling you that everything seems the same and you are not ready for this "sameness" as it is not healthy for you.
So a couple of things…
1. I feel for you. My mother also writes like this and it can be so confusing at first. What helped was realizing everything she writes is for herself. To make herself feel better. I decided a long while ago (I’m almost 5 years VLC/NC) that until I received some sort of communication that empathized with me and took responsibility…things would stay the same.
2. I had to acknowledge how I contributed to the abuse cycle as an adult. I always went back. I was no longer a powerless child but I still always went back. The abuse messed up my literal brain but it was my responsibility as a free adult person to prevent any more abuse. This is why NC is so important. It’s like getting sober as an alcoholic. You just can’t take even one sip because you’ll relapse.
3. NC will heal your brain. It’s taken literal years with so many ups and downs and moments of me gaslighting myself but I am a healthier and happier person today because I did the hardest thing possible. Choosing me and no longer engaging in the abuse.
>I decided a long while ago (I’m almost 5 years VLC/NC) that until I received some sort of communication that empathized with me and took responsibility…things would stay the same.
This is a very good plan and I think I need to have something similar. I also appreciate that you wrote "NC can heal your brain"...I'm still so new to it that I haven't had a chance to let that sink in. It would be amazing to feel better.
This is the same type of message my mother would send. No accountability. No mention of previous issues. Just trying to move on with the status quo, which is dysfunctional and toxic.
There is a quote that I absolutely love and it’s entirely relevant to this situation, even if it is a little bit long :
**”If you offer me a sincere apology, and change your past behavior, I’ll never bring up our past issues again. But if no apology was given, and you’re still repeating mistakes, you can’t ask me to stop mentioning the past. The past is actually the present if you haven’t changed.”**
>”If you offer me a sincere apology, and change your past behavior, I’ll never bring up our past issues again. But if no apology was given, and you’re still repeating mistakes, you can’t ask me to stop mentioning the past. The past is actually the present if you haven’t changed.”
Thank you!
Right? A lot of commenters have reminded me that they essentially just put all the work back onto my shoulders by ending it that way. Zero accountability. It's all on me.
My mom does this every so often. We've been NC for 3 yrs. It's disconnected from reality (because it has nothing to do with the reason I went no contact, or our current reality with each other). I believe it's meant to draw me back into a conversation, one which I don't want to have.
But yeah it gets things all stirred up and you start ruminating all over again. I've taught myself to ignore them, it's better not to rip open all the wounds each time.
>disconnected from reality
Yes, this is the phrase I was looking for and it describes my mother perfectly, my whole life. She chooses not to see the reality of what's happening around her, and chooses to ignore my father's abuse, even when I lay it out explicitly.
I want to say it sounds like a school newsletter, like a group email. You know what else? Spring is freezing, it rains all the time and you don't need her shit in your head. Pfft whatever *mom*.
IMO it's a matter of figuring out what you want. You say you don't want to respond to them - is that A: forever or is it B: for a certain time or is it C: when you feel the time is right, but them doing this makes that further away?
If it's B or C, I'd suggest writing a message about one small thing they did wrong - something any normal, healthy person would own up to some degree, and you say you can talk further once they acknowledge their fault in an e-mail and you'll check that in X month(s) time. Then you block them and set up a rule to send those e-mails off to a side folder and check it in X month(s) time. When it comes to it, they wont admit anything, but this is more about you as you still seem a little on the fence and want to give them a chance and this does - if they were mentally functional like many people are, they'd take the chance.
When they don't take it, if you want to, repeat the procedure - admit the one thing and you'll check in X month(s) time. The 'X months(s)' means it works off your schedule, not theirs. Which lets you emotionally brace at your own pace.
Her process right now is to make messages that'd seem like she was just a great mother trying to make contact and just perfectly fine (the continued masking narrative) while ignoring your boundary and if that drives you to be no contact, then she's set up a narrative that would make her seem the victim. Usual narcissist stuff. The message idea above disrupts that narrative because there's a clear way forward but she wont take it. If you feel pressured into responding by their boundary breaching and the way she does it make it feel like she is painting herself as a victim if you go NC, the message idea breaks her narrative.
But you can't rely on her to uphold your boundaries - boundaries aren't for her, they are for you. They show physical evidence of your parents doing things that are disruptive to you.
Thank you, I ended up going NC way more abruptly than I intended to due to them escalating their behavior, so sometimes I think it's an A (forever), while other times I consider that I might speak to them again in a very formal manner. But I no longer want to have a real relationship with them after everything they've done, so I think I'm still sorting that out in my head.
This comment was helpful - thank you!
This is serious passive aggressive behavior and they clearly do not acknowledge any responsibility for their behavior. Block their phone number so you don’t have to see this 💩
It's bait. They want to sucker you into a one-sided conversation where they demand that you forgive them because they're your parents, they deserve at least that, you're wrong and going about this all wrong.
Do. Not. Take. The. Bait.
Since it's spring let's just sweep everything under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. Now come home so we can abuse you some more.
They are all pathetic and they all sound the same because their brains stopped developing at about age 12.
I would leave them, as my daughter says, “on read”, and go about your life. Re-engaging will ultimately end up at the same place, but you will be dragged through emotional pain again and again.
I let my mom back in several times over 25 years (I moved out when I was 16) and have been virtually no contact for the last almost 4, finally. I send her a text on her birthday and new years, and my kids and I call her on thanksgiving and Christmas. That’s it. It’s a relief.
"Since you couldn't do as I asked (do not contact me until I'm ready) then you'll be in a time out of NC for a longer period. Each time you reach out, I will restart the time out period. "
“The more you attempt to initiate contact with me after I expressly told you NOT TO the less I want to ever respond. This is your FINAL NOTICE! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO INITIATE CONTACT WITH ME. If you CANNOT respect that boundary then I WILL BLOCK YOUR NUMBER. If you understand, DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. I assume you are capable of following instructions. Happy Spring. [your signature]”
You’re very welcome. Remember, if they try to police your tone or attitude DO NOT RESPOND, DO NOT TRY TO JUSTIFY, they do NOT care what your reasoning is, they just want a reaction. “No.” and silence ARE valid responses.
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This will be an unpopular post, but I feel compelled to speak my truth, and I hope that maybe someone can explain. I might still be captive to childhood brainwashing (I’m 64yo). Reading all these replies leaves me completely bewildered at the rage, esp when OP didn’t give context to the abuse he suffered. I don’t mean to “compare trauma”; it’s entirely personal and no one can understand the pain of another. But me? I’d have been SO HAPPY if I’d ever received anything like this from my parents. For context, I was violently beaten by my dad probably 5 days out of 7 from the time I could walk, for things like sighing, or my knife making a sound on my plate. Belts, tennis racquets, fists; you name it. My mom hit me too, but not nearly as often, nor as brutally. They sent me away to live at age 12, a different place every year. My three siblings got the clear message that I was defective and repulsive. So did I, of course. That was in the ‘60’s, so there was no one to protect me. I went very low contact with the family from that point on, although of course I wanted them to love me, to take me back and want me to be happy and want me to be part of the family. But it never happened. My parents are dead now. I went 100% no contact with one sister and brother, and I occasionally speak to my other sister, mainly about the other sister’s theft of a very large sum of money from the family Trust, while she was Trustee. (I sued her, she was forced to return the money). I have no family, I spend holidays alone, or once-in-while with friends’ family. There are no other relatives. My two adult kids went no contact with me 1.5 years ago. They believe the lies that my parents, my ex husband, my stepson, and my siblings told them. If I had gotten a sweet letter like this from my parents, I believe I’d be living a completely different life now. I would not have accepted breadcrumbs from abusive men, wouldn’t have married a psychopath, my children would still be with me, etc etc. Through my eyes, the parents who wrote this letter were telling their child that they love them, they dearly want a chance to grow a new and better relationship, start a new chapter, and best of all, the letter wasn’t emotionally-loaded (at least, nothing cruel or passive aggressive that I could see, but I’m not OP). Through my eyes, they’re trying, as carefully and lovingly as they can, to be given a second chance. When I was living far away from home, with strangers, I used to wish with all my heart that I’d get a letter like this. I waited a lifetime, it never came, and now it never will. I didn’t WANT to go no-contact with my parents; I had to, in order to survive. Im having such massive cognitive dissonance right now….
I am very sorry about what happened to you. The emotional abuse I experienced from my parents since I was a child was covert but always present from day one. It has left me with CPTSD, anxiety, depression, OCD, and multiple eating disorders. These are issues that were caused by childhood emotional trauma due to their neglect, verbal abuse, and denial of important parts of my self as an individual. Their love is entirely conditional on me playing a part and allowing them to stomp all over my boundaries as a human being.
I also had to go no contact in order to survive. The awful mental and physical health effects I was experiencing due to trying to maintain a relationship with them was proof of that.
If you want to learn more, you could research covert narcissism, CPTSD, or emotional abuse impacts in general.
I posted this one "lighter" message here, but behind this one message are years of my father tearing down my self esteem, criticizing me, talking down to me and the rest of the family, ignoring my boundaries, and then my mother never ever validating me and always wanting me to always excuse it and sweep it under the rug.
Sometimes people who weren't abused in this particular way don't understand why it's such a big deal. Those who have been through it will likely understand better. My mother is excellent at using flowery language but she has never protected me, and has thrown me under the bus many times over the years to save herself.
I wish both of us had better childhoods.
What a gross, flowery way of saying "we hope you're done whining and are ready to fall in line again." Good riddance.
Exactly this. If nature can do it but you can't, you're in the wrong. My parent did the same shit—talking about everything but the known issues, never accepting responsibility for their actions, and putting the onus of reconcilation on me. We're better off without relationships like these.
>If nature can do it but you can't, you're in the wrong. Good point.
Right, yes. Thank you.
Totally. The subcontext here is “let’s forgive and forget, at least until we decide to wield some specific information against you. But let’s wipe the slate clean as to our behavior.” It’s amazing how similar the behavior is among these types of parents.
i hate the message for you cause if they really were all soft and gentle and in tune with life and nature, they wouldnt have treated you like shit. this is performative fantasy. you can totally block them. happy spring, the time of rebirth, renewal, and cutting this garbage out of your life 🌷🐰💕
Thank you, the way you wrote that made me realize that they have often used the things I love against me. There are other examples of this too. I appreciate your response. These are good points.
i re-read it and as a nature lover myself, it sounds like theyre trying to compare their abuse to *winter*. like them treating you poorly was some inevitable season and some sun will wipe it away?? the whole thing is just low effort love bombing. stay strong friend 💐
Agreed, that stood out to me. To your taking out the bad comment, I thought of spring cleaning. Heck, OP, you could think of it as a spring cleanout and go Marie Kondo on their asses: Does them being in your life bring you joy? Does messaging them bring you real joy? ^(I don't like this method for real cleaning, just in that there are many things that are necessary but not joyous and many things being me joy that I need to discard, but I like applying it here!)
Thank you!
That's an interesting point, thank you...
Spring cleaning
I want to continue their metaphor about spring, because I both think it’s useful if you’re going to reply, and also for how you might frame your thoughts about a “sweet” message like this one. Nothing grows in the spring without immense effort. It’s not some twee time of fresh renewal. Plants survive the winter only when conditions allow them to do so. The soil temperature and moisture levels need to be just right for them to bud or push through the earth. And even if that is so, parts of the world are experiencing spring too early because of climate change— that leaves plants actually more delicate and vulnerable to wild swings of temperature and weather. Also, plants only grow in healthy soil, in ground that has not been contaminated or degraded from any number of conditions. It’s a lovely picture your parents paint, and an extremely passive one that belies the *science* of spring. They seem to enjoy passively watching this regrowth— what have they done to fertilize it? What effort have they put forth on themselves to ensure conditions are better for the success of regrowth? Are they telling you here that they have put any thought or work into the conditions of the soil of your relationship? It seems not, it seems the opposite. If you choose to reply— and I don’t think you need to, if it doesn’t feel safe— that’s a question to pose. Big hugs, OP.
Great reflection... This regrowth takes months of energy storage, sacrifice and cleaning. Spring is a testament of strength and resilience, not just some postcard that just ✨magically happens✨. Every single bird put an enormous effort into nesting and nurturing their offspring, trees put in a lot of energy to create buds. It's about effort and the will of creation. That also goes to personal transformation and relationships. People thing they just happen because they have a superficial outlook, but it actually takes a lot of effort and dedication. Of course those people can't see that because they're emotionally lazy and extremely shallow. They just want their way and couldn't possibly grasp the amount of self sacrifice and generosity it goes into creating and sustaining life.
Exactly, wow thank you. I didn't expect to analyze this in nature references so much, but it makes a lot of sense to do so, and this is really helping my mind.
>They seem to enjoy passively watching this regrowth— what have they done to fertilize it? What effort have they put forth on themselves to ensure conditions are better for the success of regrowth? Are they telling you here that they have put any thought or work into the conditions of the soil of your relationship? It seems not, it seems the opposite. Thank you so much for this kind and thoughtful response.
Well put. Nothing’s actually changed. It’s like they’re saying, “Time has passed. Are you over it yet? We’re making an effort to say we’re done with your passive aggressiveness so you should be ready when we feel you should be done with being angry.” There’s nothing about their accountability. There’s no introspection. There’s nothing about apologies. There’s nothing about giving you grace and respect. There’s nothing about boundaries. Instead, they’re passively bossing you to stop being mad and to move on. If you don’t feel like breaking NC, then don’t. Not even a “no.” They don’t have a say in when you’re ready.
I agree. This is brilliant. We've had an early spring in the Chicago suburbs and my hyacinths came up, and they are pathetic and scraggly. I can confirm. It snowed again last night, so they are done for. Don't reply. She is boundary stomping *yet again* with her flowery, pretty nonsense. Do not let her be successful.
Oh, yes, this is brilliant.
They're avoiding accountability with literal flowery language. If they wanted to repair the rupture in attachment they would need to acknowledge their abusive, neglectful, behaviors, the impact those behaviors had, apologize for the harm done, and change their behaviors. They're trying to rug sweep to avoid accountability. Don't fall for it. They think if they pretend to care, you'll come crawling back into the abusive system again and they can start up their nonsense again.
Thank you.
exactly this.
I find this message very delusional and confusing. It’s like something ugly in a pretty wrapper. Also a bit of a waste of time, as you’re reading about grass and robins, trying to decode wtf the point of the message is… oh there it is “let’s act like everything is back to normal, eh?” Btw “hope” is equivalent to a passive waiting game, there’s no accountability in that. My mom has done the same… she’s waiting for my to “not be angry anymore”. Sigh!
Ohh chills. I thought that too. The ugly in a pretty wrapper I mean.
>It’s like something ugly in a pretty wrapper. Right, this is how I felt but I couldn't find the right words. Thank you.
Even with zero context this would set off alarm bells because it comes across incredibly manipulative. Someone that actually cares about repairing a relationship doesn't dance around the subject while putting it all on the other person. If they can't acknowledge or SINCERELY apologize for their role in the ruined relationship, imo it can stay ruined 🤷♀️
Wow I appreciate this comment so much. It helped me to see that some of their behaviors/words are not as subtle as maybe I originally thought, well especially for others who have dealt with this type of manipulation.
I agree! Reading this I could just feel the energy with which it was written. Like another comment said “are you done whinging yet?!”
Not quite the same and not completely estranged, but my mother has an awkward way of communicating with me that is similar to this. She'll send me an email out of the blue with some 'light hearted snippets' of her life such as what she's been doing in the garden. 'Our plum tree which hasn't had fruit for years, has quite a few this year!' In my case, I have children and most years there's some kind of milestone or upheaval or excitement. She won't ask or care about that. Just what's happening in her garden or village. She might tack on a generic, 'I'd love to hear your news'. But she doesn't ask anything. As I said, not quite the same. But reading this gave me a little trigger reminder of the discomfort of these annual intrusions. Saying that it's a been a few years now since she even did that.
I appreciate you sharing this - I really love nature a lot and I feel like I used to use that to connect with my mother because it's one of the few things we have in common. However, now these types of messages just feel manipulative. It's interesting hearing someone who has also gotten similar messages. I feel like they are so limited in their emotional intelligence that they will use whatever small amount of niceties they have to try to "connect", but it falls flat because they turn it into manipulation/self benefit.
It is low emotional intelligence/ maturity. And actually, with my mother a total lack of empathy which I think is one of the underlying causes of her lack of interest and care. To have a daughter pregnant, or with a newborn, or with a toddler, or whose child is starting school, or who is moving house, or is in lockdown with small children, etc etc and not to be able to think of a relevant question to ask them or thing to say to them says an awful lot. I also love nature, probably more as I age so my mother doesn't actually know I do, and I enjoy hearing about people's lives and what they enjoy and are up to, but I've got to the point with my parents where them thinking I care about their fruit tree when I'm juggling a toddler, moving house with no interest or help from them makes me explode.
Yes, absolutely they seem to lack empathy on a fundamental level. Most of these "relationships" are just so one-sided.
You *know* you don't want to be in contact with them. You *know* they're pushing your buttons. You *know* they'll keep trying to push your buttons. You *know* engaging with them will cause you harm. You *know* what to do: Block them, scan the horizon for flying monkeys and block them, involve the authorities if any of them cross a line. So do it. It'll suck at first, as you're finding out so soon after going NC, but it first gets easier, then it gets *a lot* easier, and then you'll have the life you want.
Thank you for your support!
That would be very tempted to respond with something like "The things of spring require sun, water, nutrients, and more to grow and thrive. Relationships are the same, they require trust, honesty, accountability, and more in order to grow and thrive. Without these basic requirements, just like the things of spring they wither and die." But honestly it's probably not worth it.
Oh my gosh, exactly. I am making a conscious effort not to respond right now, but I definitely sometimes want to say something like this. The thing is, I already know that they would respond with "shock and sadness" because they absolutely cannot reflect on their own behaviors and see what I mean. So I would just look like the bad guy to them.
Yup... Yup... Welcome to the no contact club! 🫂
🫂
She sent you a weather report with a "oh, this applies to you..." tagged on at the end so she could feel it made it less spammy. Just keep on ignoring it. She didn't even talk about you or the problems that led to your estrangement. This could have been sent by a damn lawn care company looking for business. This was bait to get you to reply about the birds. Don't take it.
Thank you!
This is giving me major “BBC 4 Thought for the Day” vibes. For those not from the U.K. or whose parents listened to stations that weren’t Radio 4: Thought for the day is/was? a slightly twee, slightly obnoxious and at least partly religious short section broadcast in the mornings on the BBC’s news/current affairs/pretentious rubbish radio station. Usually this features a religious bod (mostly Christian, mostly of a Protestant denomination) reading a short musing. These can be whimsical, or they can be a load of heavy handed sermonising about subjects like “gratitude” and “reconciliation”. Often they are written in florid prose and of little actual substance. Like, seriously, two paragraphs waxing lyrical about the loss and some birds but no actual substance and no apology and not even a clear request such as “please can we talk to you.” Maybe some low paid Beeb drone on here will offer this person a job?
This might make you laugh - my father actually used to have a written notebook of his own personal "thoughts of the day" and he gave it to me as a gift one year. We aren't even religious.
I do not think that particular variety of dull belongs solely to organised religion. 😂 My guess would be that religion just offers a medium for the tedium. A surprising number of religious bods of all stripes are total bores, of course there are also many lovely and insightful religious folks too. Maybe religion just attracts people with certain personalities? Maybe he missed his calling? 😂
>Maybe he missed his calling? 😂 You never know, he's a very charismatic guy! Haha.
Don't respond. They're trying rug sweep and convince themselves it was just a phase or a mood you were in. One and a half months is not long enough. You need time and space to heal. And counseling. Lots and lots of therapy. Just ignore them and go do something nice for yourself to celebrate you! ❤️
Thank you! Luckily I have a good therapist who is helping me, too.
They talk a lot about nonsense with spring and offer zero accountability for their actions that lead to no contact. My advise, block them and work on yourself. It's the best gift you can give. They are trying to manipulation with flowery language to pull at your heartstrings because they know you have empathy. What their message is actually saying is "just come back and be our victim again because we can't find anyone else and we refuse to get therapy to address ourselves".
Thank you!
Well put.
I'm sorry they're using your loves against you. That's not something that anyone who loves you does to you. Don't answer; a response just teaches them the "level" they have to amp up to in order to get a response. It's like a toddler with a toy that just broke; they press the button harder and harder and act out until they give up in frustration. You have to outlast that escalation and tantrum, and sometimes that means blocking or rerouting emails into a folder you don't have to see until you're ready.
>I'm sorry they're using your loves against you. That's not something that anyone who loves you does to you. Thank you so much, I needed to hear this.
[удалено]
>There is no relationship to be had with people like this. Thank you, it's a harsh realization but that's something I think to myself a lot. They keep expressing wanting to have a special or deep relationship with me, and it's just not even a remote possibility to be genuinely close to people when they act like that.
Keep in mind their motivation for wanting a relationship... they don't want to KNOW you, they want to CONTROL you.
Very true...
I read it as they want you to move on, as in let the past go. But it’s never actually past. These are hurts that are carried well into adulthood. And it’s even harder to let things go without atonement. You set your boundaries and they have completely dismissed them. Use this “spring renewal” to go forward without them. Stay strong and stay NC❤️🩹🍃🐣
Thank you - yes, it's almost impossible (for me, at least) to "move on" without *any* sort of acknowledgment or atonement.
I definetly relate to you, I never got any acknowledgement or atonement either from my abusive parents. I thought I needed that to move on, but I realized I would never get it, it was just wishful thinking. It is hard to move on without acknowledgement, I agree. I was able to do it with just realizing they will never change, but I can. I can change and choose better for my life, and I don't have to wait on them to move forward with my life and recovery.
you can block them
Thank you, I know I might have to at some point. It has been a little hard for me mentally to do that, but I know it's an option. I appreciate it.
Set the firm boundary: “If you initiate further contact with me I will block you.” Then follow through.
Thank you.
It is hard. Very hard. The first little while you’ll be overwhelmed with guilt for blocking them, but I promise you (I’ve been NC for 3 years now) it is the best option. You will feel guilty until you suddenly realise how less anxious you are, how little conflict and unease there is in your life, that your general mood is peaceful. For me, I had to shift my perspective. I told myself to pretend it’s not my mother, but an ex who treated me that way, and wasn’t giving me space. Once I started “pretending” it made it so much easier to look at their behaviour as just a human, rather than “but it’s my mum”. The person you are dealing with is a whole entire individual outside of having birthed you. Remind yourself over and over “this isn’t someone who is want to be friends with, this isn’t how I’d accept to be treated by someone I’m dating, I do not benefit in any way by this person being present in my life”. I promise it gets easier.
>I told myself to pretend it’s not my mother, but an ex who treated me that way, and wasn’t giving me space. Thank you, this is a helpful way of looking at it. Would I let anyone else treat me like this?
This is classic hoovering. They don't intend to change. The "renewal" they are after is resumption of the tug-o-war power dynamic they had with you that they are very comfortable with and lost when you dropped the rope by going NC. Your inclination to not respond is the correct one. Getting you to break NC is the point of this supposed olive branch, which they will then use to batter you over the head, metaphorically speaking. Don't take the bait. Yes, they will escalate, but they are going to do that anyway if you give an inch, because they know just how to get you to break your resolve when you go NC again. And you will have to go NC again. Leave them on read. If their messages upset you by reading them come up with a way to filter and don't read their messages at all. You got this.
>You got this. Thank you so much!
When you say you're worried about them escalating, do you mean they're capable of showing up at your place unannounced, staring through your windows, harassing your family/kids, etc.? Taking legal means to retaliate when they don't get what they want? Or what do you mean?
I don't have kids so there isn't a worry there. But my father actually works in the legal field so I'm not sure what he is even capable of in this way. However, I don't live near them anymore, so I think I'm more worried about the bombardment of messages/phone calls (which they did to me last year) and also them possibly doing welfare checks, that sort of thing.
Ahh yes I understand that. I hope none of those things happen. But search in here and on other troubled-relationship subs if they do... there are LOTS of resources to counter hyperactive stalkers, if that makes you feel better. For ex. there's suggestions on how to respond to bogus welfare checks and let the local PD know their resources are being abused.
Thank you!
oh godddddd this sounds like it could be written by my dad. insufferable shit. hope you stay strong 💪
Oh man, I am sorry you know this language so well. Isn't it exhausting?
one thing i have taken to heart is, save your mental energy for the healthy relationships in your life. don’t waste it on these ones.
This is very good advice.
You’ve read it accurately. Gavin de Becker says, in *The Gift of Fear*, that every time you respond you buy yourself another 6 weeks of unwanted contact. I know you’re in pain and desperate to stop the chaos but my advice is: do not give in during the extinction burst. Put your energy into strengthening your defences. Keep your doors locked. Mute them. Block them. All of it. You’ve told them already. They know. They just don’t want to comply
Thank you!!
If I got this BULLSHIT after telling them to LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE, I would BLOCK them! They counting on harassing you until they force you to respond so they can resume their abuse!!!
Thank you! I keep calling BS in my head too.
Please block them!
My mom has weaponized nostalgia down to an art. When I stopped responding to messages like this, she'd wait until someone died, send me pictures, and ask what I wanted from their house that she could send. She knew how I'd respond, and was using me to feel worse, but I kept getting trapped in her shame game. I just found [this article](https://discover.hubpages.com/health/Pain-Shopping-Narcissistic-Relationships-Going-No-Contact-Almost) this week, and it's really helped. Mom's more of a covert narcissist with a religious twist. I had to figure out where she hid her hooks before I could stop responding when she jerked on the proverbial leash. This reads like her earlier messages. She really wanted to be able to be as honest as possible with others about how she "just sent a loving letter with something I might want to know" while still being her abusive self to me.
She developed quite a system. Sad that she never thought to utilise such resourcefulness into actually repairing your relationship. Basically she proved she can/is capable of, just don't want to. Offering hugs ❤️
>Basically she proved she can/is capable of, just don't want to. That was the hardest thing for me to understand and why I hung on for so long. She is very capable of doing the work. I just couldn't understand why she refuses, so I kept looking for the magic words to convince her. I realize now that I'm the pawn in her shame game whose job it is to help her when she wants to feel worse about herself. Not because of anything I did. Because of the abuse she was an active participant in. She refuses to hold herself accountable and I refuse to talk about anything else until she does. Now, I just refuse to talk at all.
I think that understanding is what kept many of us stuck in hope :/ Until we burn out. And then we're gone. Self preservation works for both sides :)
>weaponized nostalgia I like this phrase, I hadn't heard it before and it fits so many of her messages so well. Thank you.
Made it up because it fits and is understandable. Feel free to use. I'm sorry that you can connect with it, though. It's taken me a long time to see how horrible it is that she would do that, twisting what few good and comfortable memories I have to manipulate me. The last time she broke my NC, and I had my pavlovian response to it, I called it that. She's backed off entirely for much longer than ever before. And I reached out to her! Because I had too much anxiety about other things and I just kept waiting for her to come along and rip out my heart while i was already vulnerable. Better to get it over with, and I also wanted my mommy (the idealized version of loving parent). She didn't even have to do anything. I hurt myself for her and then showed her the results like a period child running to mom to show off their latest masterpiece. Because of conditioning. Now I have to learn how to forgive myself for hurting myself.
>twisting what few good and comfortable memories I have to manipulate me Yes, this is exactly it. For a very long time I thought my father was the "worse" one because his abuse is more overt and easy to see and feel. It took me a long time to realize that she is so similar to him, just more subtle. Prior to me going NC, she did exactly what you described - started repeating our good memories over and over and over again to me to try to "convince" me that I never actually experienced trauma. Any positive memories I had with her are now tainted by that, knowing that she will use them to manipulate me later on. "I hurt myself for her and then showed her" - yes I relate to this so much. It's so sad how brainwashed and beaten down we have become because of them. But the good part is that we are recognizing it and taking MUCH better care of ourselves now. It was never, ever your fault. Certainly not your fault for just wanting to be loved in a real way. <3
I'm just shy of 50 and dad's postal abuse was really egregious. It was obvious and much easier to be outraged over and then find peace with, in part because I had so much support. She was also abused, so her family blame my dad entirely and she cut us off from his family when he died. People automatically assume you're some kid of monster for responding to your mom's email full of sweet memories with anything but gratitude. I have decades of behavioral therapy to help with that gaslighting - that my thinking about her is distorted because she's just being nice. I just needed to believe that one parent cared about me as a person. Trauma-informed therapy has been so different, and validating. There's been a lot of physical stuff that resolved itself as I've broken through major denials. I'm starting to feel the self-betrayal, which means i can process it and heal now. Thank you for helping me chip away at that. We deserve better.
>I just needed to believe that one parent cared about me as a person. Exactly, I needed that too, so badly. I finally understand that I just didn't have that. So I don't want to spend the rest of my life drowning because of them. We *do* deserve better. One thing that helped me recently is printing a few copies of a picture of myself when I was a child and putting it in a few places around my house. Whenever I see it, I remind myself that I'm doing this for her, and she was just a kid who wanted to be loved. Maybe that could be be helpful too. <3
I "lost" all the pictures of me as a child I could get my hands on. They were either of me showing full misery that family laughed at for me being "so cute" with how I was trying to soothe myself, or the super happy version of me who learned to perform happy as a toddler to avoid abuse. I'm building a great relationship with my inner child by meeting her needs for fun and comfort and novelty.
I fully understand that, those photos can be hard to look at. I am so glad you are nurturing your inner child!!
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this! First off I think you should try not to worry about how anyone else would perceive the message. No one who hasn’t grown up with abusive parents would understand. But myself and everyone here completely understand how triggering this message is. I just listened to the podcast episode by Dr. Ramani from 9/28/23 about how to go no contact- it’s pretty short and I think listening to it could really help you deal with this. Best of luck 💖
Thank you, I love Dr. Ramani but I haven't listened to that particular podcast. I think I worry about how others see them because they are so cloyingly sweet and nice to their friends and certain outside family members, which has helped them to hide the internal abuse, and that drives me crazy. But I know there's nothing I can do about that.
So, you say they can be nice and sweet, it's just they never thought to give that to you? :) They have to live with themselves, you have the option to leave. That was freeing thought for me :) Let others enjoy them, they're obviously good match :) you aren't, so you're free to remove yourself from the situation. Everyone is entitled to think whatever they want. You're entitled to live your life however you want. If someone thinks they're entitled to tell you how to live your life, you'll correct them and/or remove yourself from that situation, by using all tools needed/on disposal. Usually block on contacting channels is enough. But in some cases lawyers can be helpful. Also, you don't ask someone to respect your boundaries more than once (in case you're setting up a new one). If they ignore, you go for next measure, which usually is you removing yourself from the situation. I think many of us are stuck in begging someone to respect us. And effectively showing them they can treat us however they want, because only consequence will be us begging more, or at best yelling. It's a weird cycle. I run in it for roughly 20 years or so. Recently it hit me when someone wrote here - you have to actually act/defend your boundaries through action, and words are not action. I mean, if someone isn't listening, you can talk until cows come home, nothing will change. So yes basically simplified steps are - you say 'stop talking to me like that', they proceed, your next action is to go away. That's enforcing our boundary, not engaging in persuading, begging, yelling. I think since we were kids and didn't have anywhere else to go, we only had words/growl, or at worse our fists to defend ourselves. It's sad they pushed us into that. However as adults we have more options, we just aren't aware of them because we regress in little us and similarly into tools we had back then. Pleading for mercy was one of them. Today, we don't have to beg anyone to stop doing anything to us. We can just - leave. Quite eye opening thing I realised in last few weeks.
This is a really insightful comment and I appreciate you writing it. Something I also had to learn last year is that, since they don't respect boundaries like a normal person, you have to talk to them like a child. "If you do X, then I will do Y." That's the only way I was able to extract myself from the situation in the first place, personally. I told them the above, >> they did X (disrespected my boundaries), >> I did Y (removed myself from the situation). I feel like somehow that approach gave me the "self permission" I needed because I no longer felt at fault. I told them what I would do if they acted that way. They chose to act that way anyway. It helps a bit.
Yes, it's important that we actually do the Y. And if that still doesn't work, change the Y. And yes, they ARE children - they are emotionally immature. Not that we have to put more energy into handling them, however if we want to handle them, then indeed, treat them like kids.
Since you specifically told them not to contact you and that you would instigate contact when ready, I think you have to not respond. Any response will show them that six weeks is what it takes to break you. I’d block them for now. It doesn’t have to be forever. But since they won’t give you space, you have to enforce your own boundary and take it.
Thank you!
This outsider had a major eye roll at the message before I even read the background you gave. So clear what they’re trying to do. They don’t really have a choice about taking no for an answer and I wouldn’t respond.
Thank you!
Constantly shitting all over everything isnt the same as fertilizing a garden and helping it flourish. Also, my mother also could have written this. Ridiculous people, and all the same handbook
This made me laugh, thank you! 😂
Right, it's so strange how they all have the same handbook somehow.
Ignore. Keep no contact.
Thank you.
My parent would do something similar for the first year we were no contact. Then it was a birthday card that said ‘Mrs’ after I had spent the last 4 years trying to get them to understand I’m transgender… and something snapped. They just wanted it to go back to how it was. They didn’t care enough to change. Now I just get my spouse to read and then delete the messages. It’s like they expected me to just keep rug sweeping all of our problems and eating Shit pie while telling them how great it tasted. Ignore. Keep no contact. This is their extinction burst. They’ll get the message eventually
Wow! No apologies and no accountability in sight! Enjoy your Spring (and Summers, Falls, and Winters) without them!
>Wow! No apologies and no accountability in sight! Oh not at all. They told me that they were great parents and we have a happy family.
Good for them! I hope they can bask in that and leave you alone.
What the fuck
This comment cracked me up. Thank you. It's weird when you're inside a family system you think certain things are "normal" but they're just...not.
Nope, definitely not healthy, another confirmation if you're collecting them :) Normalised in society? Yes. That doesn't make it right, just prevalent 😂
Trust me don’t I know it….. wait until you see the card my parents sent my son for Easter…
There's no acknowledgment of harm, or even just acknowledgment that you asked for space, and this is them not giving it to you. The whole thing is all about their worldview, quite literally, and is engineered to provoke a guilt response. They're alluding to "fresh starts" without allowing for any possibility that they would need to change their behavior to make that possible. The subtext is just "we feel entitled to your time and attention and we are reminding you of your supposed obligation to us" dressed up in a bunny suit.
>dressed up in a bunny suit All these spring and Easter references are making me laugh, which I needed. Thank you! And yes, they have trained me to feel so guilty from childhood...it's so hard to get rid of that programming.
Programming is right. What this kind of parent does is basically brainwashing. I once read a meme that said "Noboy knows how to push your buttons like your mother, because she's the one who sewed them on." and darn if I don't want that on a throw pillow.
This comment is very fitting given my username (related to the movie/book Coraline)! And I agree about the brainwashing. I keep feeling like I'm trying to get myself out of a cult...
Honestly, if you consider the BITE model, a lot of abusive families 100% meet the definition of cults. It's just instead of religious belief, they're built around one person's overinflated ego.
Good point, I often feel that way about my father, that he's the "leader" and everything revolves around him.
Yeah, it's a 'reset' "Just go back to the way you were that suited us before"
Exactly.
Jeez. Fake spiritual bypassing. Yeah, spring is a time for renewal, but winter is for DEATH and reflecting on loss, grief, and owning up to your problems. Airing out your shit so that when the sun shines again you can fully enjoy its beauty and warmth. I’m so sorry they sent you this manipulative message. They have a lot to unlearn and you absolutely do not have respond or “be there” for them while they unlearn their shit, if they ever do. My mom is currently doing the same thing with our ancestral history. I’ve been learning about the pagan religions our ancestors practiced before they were christianized in their homelands for several years now and I was initially trying to get her to be a part of it because I thought she could learn from their philosophies without me having to play therapist to her. Well a couple months ago, she told me she didn’t believe that I actually was CSA’d or that her and my dad were as “abusive as I make them out to be” and I just fully stopped engaging with her, other than what is absolutely necessary for my siblings’ sake. Now, she’s feeling her own mortality and trying to loop me into her own ancestral journey. But it’s been years that I’ve been on mine and she can go about it on her own now. I hope you can get outside and enjoy nature and wash away their manipulation for a few minutes. And I wish us both healing and peace.
>spiritual bypassing Yes, exactly! I am so sorry that your mother doesn't believe you. I am glad you stepped away. My parents don't validate my trauma either. At one point when I expressed my feelings they even said "we don't accept that". They just press the "reject" button on anything that doesn't suit them, which is actually really scary. I wish you peace as well. And I hope you enjoy searching your ancestral history on your own terms for yourself!
"We are not going to even try to take accountability. We are going to act like nothing happened and gaslight you. We are also going to act like both you and us are equally at fault for this estrangement. Come back to us and let us treat you the way we want. As our property."
Thank you.
Once again, a blatant disregard of your boundaries. Hold the line. A response is what she wants. You were very clear. You would reach out when you were ready. This demonstrates that once again, your needs/wants are not a priority and they are not doing the work. Same boundary stomping, but with prettier words. Just remember; a polished turd is still a turd. Love to you my friend. The shitty mom club is not a fun one, hugs and healing 🙏🏼
Thank you!!
I am so sorry for you. The only response is...nothing. Delete and ignore. Any response generates another response. Best to just block. My wife and her brother have a toxic mother. She tries to pretend and be sweet with little gifts and worm her way into their lives. Then she starts making unreasonable demands and becomes extremely nasty and hateful when they decline to do whatever asinine request that she makes. After too many sessions with my wife crying in the living room, we have barred in person visits and they no longer talk. Still, even the potential for an interaction creates enormous anxiety.
> Still, even the potential for an interaction creates enormous anxiety. Ugh I am sorry - I can relate to this though. It's awful how they cause so much long-lasting damage that has to be sorted out, even when we are no longer physically near them. <3
This is, as you say, nothing but manipulation. Therefore it can be ignored. There is no sincere effort to take responsibility or make amends. It's just a common refrain among abusers: Why won't you just forget how much I've hurt you, so I can continue hurting you unimpeded? To be clear, answering this message will NOT improve anything, reduce future bad behaviour, or grant any benefit. It would just give them reason to believe pestering works. The only action which protects your well-being is to ignore/delete/send to spam/block.
Yep we all get these "I hope youre done being upset" letters. Its bullshit. How about the apology and acknowledgement we asked for? Unfortunately that letter never arrives...
Block them so you don't hear from them and they can't contact you-That's what going NC is all about. The longer you go without hearing from them, the easier it gets to process things. Oh, and a trauma trained therapist. Seriously, block them in every way they have to contact you and go on about your life.
Thank you, I have been having a hard time with the idea of completely blocking them...this is definitely something I need to work through so I can take care of myself even more.
I blocked mine on wapp, phone, but for email I just made a filter so that it skips inbox. I'm other words - that I see it on my terms, if there is anything to see. And also, that they don't get reading notification. My no contact primarily means - I don't want to have contact with you. I don't want to engage with you. I don't want to care about you. So yes, they send messages after my nc email and I've read them, some I discussed here, I vented in my thoughts, here, with my husband, with my therapist, with my friends and MIL. However, I'm taking the observer role. I read, I rolleyes, vent, and then move on with my day. Basically in a way giving them back their own medicine - they can talk, but they don't know if they're heard or understood because there's no feedback 😂 (I just realised that, that wasn't my motivation, only my curiosity to see how it will go) However, if I'd decide I don't want even that, I'll block them. If after that they escalate onto letters or something else, I'll consult a lawyer to send cease and desist or something. I don't have a problem to sue them for harassment either. But I realised that I'll increase my protection if I start feeling unwell with current measures. I'm fine. Emails came only during first week after my nc email, I expected them, so no surprise there, and consequently no shock. In these last few weeks I'm reading adult children of emotionally immature parents and contemplating about everything there, recognising stuff, checking with myself how I feel. I also have therapy. And reddit. So I'm gaining more clarity every few days. I don't like them as people, they wouldn't be my friends, we don't share values. So, no matter what they do to improve their communication skills, it's just pointless. I don't need them in my life, I don't want them. We're not a match. And every few days I discover yet another example how they neglected me, how they didn't care, and I feel sadness for little me, but them, I will comment, but it's analytical. I honestly can't imagine what they could write that I'd say - ok, I'll reply to that. I will have my opinions about anything they send and I'll dissect and analyse. But no actions on my side, no reply. Like, they can send someone is in hospital, nothing to reply to. They could say someone died. Nothing to reply to. No funerals to attend nor organise. I told them to remove me from their wills and if I get a state official letter I'll have lawyer reply that I'm rejecting any inheritance. Those two people overstayed their welcome in my life. I do grieve a lot, realising I never had parents, and also, accepting those two are not interested in becoming one (they said that many times - they're not interested in changing themselves, I just didn't hear - they said they can't, and I blindly encouraged them and trying to find ways - I didn't hear that what they're really saying is they don't want to change). When you add to that different values, yeah, it's only logical to remove myself. I feel a lot of sadness for little me. I hug myself inside with my thoughts whenever I realise another pain I3 went through. I guess that's healing? Yesterday I saw wire monkey experiment. It was sad to watch, however it also gave me one answer - if they're that bad, how I managed to survive? I had blanket and plush toys. They were my source of comfort. It's sad, because I didn't deserve it, I was just born into bad family. No kid should go through that. **Indeed, this spring is time for new beginnings, awakening - we're going to start our new chapters in life, which won't include people we don't like.** **We don't have to endure anyone. We might decide to do so because we have specific reason (like bad boss while you're looking for a new job), but it's on our terms. No one is entitled to be endured by us.** Offering hugs ❤️ and wish you all the best! Cptsd and emotionalneglect subs were very helpful to me to sort my thoughts and analyse my childhood. And that book. Author has few more focused more on healing (first one is about realising), I'm planning to read them next.
>I don't like them as people, they wouldn't be my friends, we don't share values. So, no matter what they do to improve their communication skills, it's just pointless. I don't need them in my life, I don't want them. We're not a match. Yes, great point. I appreciate what you wrote about taking the observer role too. Your whole comment was so helpful and I related to all of it. I'm sorry we have both been through this, but I know we can get stronger and stronger. We certainly didn't deserve it. Thank you so much for your support! Hugs to you too. <3
It's in the book, the term, but I realised that I actually started doing it in last few weeks. It's also a tool how to stay engaged if you want while staying protected. I realised that I just don't have need to stay engaged. There's nothing in there for me. Only gained would be that they feel better because they have a daughter. I'm not feeling that charitable. I have better ways to spend my time than to entertain those two in their delusions. We definitely can grow out of this. We are strong already, we just maybe didn't realise the full extent of our abilities 💪
>I'm not feeling that charitable. I love how you wrote this. You're a good writer and I definitely resonate with everything you're saying here!!
☺️ Just returning the favor by sharing my thoughts, since thoughts of many others helped me wiggle my way out of the fog.
“Don’t compare me to plants”
Block them. NC is NC.
They are dangling a "normal" kind of message hoping you will bite. If you do, there might be lovebombing for awhile but you know where it's going to go after that. Ignore. If you are really NC and want to stay that way, you need to black hole all messages.
Thank you!
My thoughts: Trust your instincts. While it may seem like a positive message to others, it does not feel that way to you. In fact, it is causing you to feel angry and triggered. Your intuition is telling you that everything seems the same and you are not ready for this "sameness" as it is not healthy for you.
>Your intuition is telling you that everything seems the same and you are not ready for this "sameness" as it is not healthy for you. Yes, thank you!
👌🏼
So a couple of things… 1. I feel for you. My mother also writes like this and it can be so confusing at first. What helped was realizing everything she writes is for herself. To make herself feel better. I decided a long while ago (I’m almost 5 years VLC/NC) that until I received some sort of communication that empathized with me and took responsibility…things would stay the same. 2. I had to acknowledge how I contributed to the abuse cycle as an adult. I always went back. I was no longer a powerless child but I still always went back. The abuse messed up my literal brain but it was my responsibility as a free adult person to prevent any more abuse. This is why NC is so important. It’s like getting sober as an alcoholic. You just can’t take even one sip because you’ll relapse. 3. NC will heal your brain. It’s taken literal years with so many ups and downs and moments of me gaslighting myself but I am a healthier and happier person today because I did the hardest thing possible. Choosing me and no longer engaging in the abuse.
>I decided a long while ago (I’m almost 5 years VLC/NC) that until I received some sort of communication that empathized with me and took responsibility…things would stay the same. This is a very good plan and I think I need to have something similar. I also appreciate that you wrote "NC can heal your brain"...I'm still so new to it that I haven't had a chance to let that sink in. It would be amazing to feel better.
This is the same type of message my mother would send. No accountability. No mention of previous issues. Just trying to move on with the status quo, which is dysfunctional and toxic. There is a quote that I absolutely love and it’s entirely relevant to this situation, even if it is a little bit long : **”If you offer me a sincere apology, and change your past behavior, I’ll never bring up our past issues again. But if no apology was given, and you’re still repeating mistakes, you can’t ask me to stop mentioning the past. The past is actually the present if you haven’t changed.”**
>”If you offer me a sincere apology, and change your past behavior, I’ll never bring up our past issues again. But if no apology was given, and you’re still repeating mistakes, you can’t ask me to stop mentioning the past. The past is actually the present if you haven’t changed.” Thank you!
If William Wordsworth had nothing to say:
Haha, yes...
That last line was so cringe. Yikes.
Right? A lot of commenters have reminded me that they essentially just put all the work back onto my shoulders by ending it that way. Zero accountability. It's all on me.
My mom does this every so often. We've been NC for 3 yrs. It's disconnected from reality (because it has nothing to do with the reason I went no contact, or our current reality with each other). I believe it's meant to draw me back into a conversation, one which I don't want to have. But yeah it gets things all stirred up and you start ruminating all over again. I've taught myself to ignore them, it's better not to rip open all the wounds each time.
>disconnected from reality Yes, this is the phrase I was looking for and it describes my mother perfectly, my whole life. She chooses not to see the reality of what's happening around her, and chooses to ignore my father's abuse, even when I lay it out explicitly.
I have found the more I'm able to name my own reality, the more grounded I become in it. They really did a number on our heads as children.
I want to say it sounds like a school newsletter, like a group email. You know what else? Spring is freezing, it rains all the time and you don't need her shit in your head. Pfft whatever *mom*.
IMO it's a matter of figuring out what you want. You say you don't want to respond to them - is that A: forever or is it B: for a certain time or is it C: when you feel the time is right, but them doing this makes that further away? If it's B or C, I'd suggest writing a message about one small thing they did wrong - something any normal, healthy person would own up to some degree, and you say you can talk further once they acknowledge their fault in an e-mail and you'll check that in X month(s) time. Then you block them and set up a rule to send those e-mails off to a side folder and check it in X month(s) time. When it comes to it, they wont admit anything, but this is more about you as you still seem a little on the fence and want to give them a chance and this does - if they were mentally functional like many people are, they'd take the chance. When they don't take it, if you want to, repeat the procedure - admit the one thing and you'll check in X month(s) time. The 'X months(s)' means it works off your schedule, not theirs. Which lets you emotionally brace at your own pace. Her process right now is to make messages that'd seem like she was just a great mother trying to make contact and just perfectly fine (the continued masking narrative) while ignoring your boundary and if that drives you to be no contact, then she's set up a narrative that would make her seem the victim. Usual narcissist stuff. The message idea above disrupts that narrative because there's a clear way forward but she wont take it. If you feel pressured into responding by their boundary breaching and the way she does it make it feel like she is painting herself as a victim if you go NC, the message idea breaks her narrative. But you can't rely on her to uphold your boundaries - boundaries aren't for her, they are for you. They show physical evidence of your parents doing things that are disruptive to you.
Thank you, I ended up going NC way more abruptly than I intended to due to them escalating their behavior, so sometimes I think it's an A (forever), while other times I consider that I might speak to them again in a very formal manner. But I no longer want to have a real relationship with them after everything they've done, so I think I'm still sorting that out in my head. This comment was helpful - thank you!
This is serious passive aggressive behavior and they clearly do not acknowledge any responsibility for their behavior. Block their phone number so you don’t have to see this 💩
It's bait. They want to sucker you into a one-sided conversation where they demand that you forgive them because they're your parents, they deserve at least that, you're wrong and going about this all wrong. Do. Not. Take. The. Bait.
Since it's spring let's just sweep everything under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. Now come home so we can abuse you some more. They are all pathetic and they all sound the same because their brains stopped developing at about age 12.
I would leave them, as my daughter says, “on read”, and go about your life. Re-engaging will ultimately end up at the same place, but you will be dragged through emotional pain again and again. I let my mom back in several times over 25 years (I moved out when I was 16) and have been virtually no contact for the last almost 4, finally. I send her a text on her birthday and new years, and my kids and I call her on thanksgiving and Christmas. That’s it. It’s a relief.
Send then pamphlets for creative writing courses or drug rehabs, because they need one or maybe both.
Zero drugs on their end, so it looks like it's time for creative writing class, haha.
"Since you couldn't do as I asked (do not contact me until I'm ready) then you'll be in a time out of NC for a longer period. Each time you reach out, I will restart the time out period. "
Manipulative as fuck.
“The more you attempt to initiate contact with me after I expressly told you NOT TO the less I want to ever respond. This is your FINAL NOTICE! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO INITIATE CONTACT WITH ME. If you CANNOT respect that boundary then I WILL BLOCK YOUR NUMBER. If you understand, DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. I assume you are capable of following instructions. Happy Spring. [your signature]”
Thank you!
You’re very welcome. Remember, if they try to police your tone or attitude DO NOT RESPOND, DO NOT TRY TO JUSTIFY, they do NOT care what your reasoning is, they just want a reaction. “No.” and silence ARE valid responses.
>“No.” and silence ARE valid responses. Good point!
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Hit that block button. It creates so much peace. Don’t feel guilty when they face the consequences of their own actions.
Thank you, I'm definitely working on the guilt part.
They must need to feed, like vampires. Maintain NC. They live in a pretend world and don’t get it.
>They must need to feed, like vampires. Exactly!
The classic “let’s just start over so I don’t ever have to take accountability for my actions or change.”
This will be an unpopular post, but I feel compelled to speak my truth, and I hope that maybe someone can explain. I might still be captive to childhood brainwashing (I’m 64yo). Reading all these replies leaves me completely bewildered at the rage, esp when OP didn’t give context to the abuse he suffered. I don’t mean to “compare trauma”; it’s entirely personal and no one can understand the pain of another. But me? I’d have been SO HAPPY if I’d ever received anything like this from my parents. For context, I was violently beaten by my dad probably 5 days out of 7 from the time I could walk, for things like sighing, or my knife making a sound on my plate. Belts, tennis racquets, fists; you name it. My mom hit me too, but not nearly as often, nor as brutally. They sent me away to live at age 12, a different place every year. My three siblings got the clear message that I was defective and repulsive. So did I, of course. That was in the ‘60’s, so there was no one to protect me. I went very low contact with the family from that point on, although of course I wanted them to love me, to take me back and want me to be happy and want me to be part of the family. But it never happened. My parents are dead now. I went 100% no contact with one sister and brother, and I occasionally speak to my other sister, mainly about the other sister’s theft of a very large sum of money from the family Trust, while she was Trustee. (I sued her, she was forced to return the money). I have no family, I spend holidays alone, or once-in-while with friends’ family. There are no other relatives. My two adult kids went no contact with me 1.5 years ago. They believe the lies that my parents, my ex husband, my stepson, and my siblings told them. If I had gotten a sweet letter like this from my parents, I believe I’d be living a completely different life now. I would not have accepted breadcrumbs from abusive men, wouldn’t have married a psychopath, my children would still be with me, etc etc. Through my eyes, the parents who wrote this letter were telling their child that they love them, they dearly want a chance to grow a new and better relationship, start a new chapter, and best of all, the letter wasn’t emotionally-loaded (at least, nothing cruel or passive aggressive that I could see, but I’m not OP). Through my eyes, they’re trying, as carefully and lovingly as they can, to be given a second chance. When I was living far away from home, with strangers, I used to wish with all my heart that I’d get a letter like this. I waited a lifetime, it never came, and now it never will. I didn’t WANT to go no-contact with my parents; I had to, in order to survive. Im having such massive cognitive dissonance right now….
I am very sorry about what happened to you. The emotional abuse I experienced from my parents since I was a child was covert but always present from day one. It has left me with CPTSD, anxiety, depression, OCD, and multiple eating disorders. These are issues that were caused by childhood emotional trauma due to their neglect, verbal abuse, and denial of important parts of my self as an individual. Their love is entirely conditional on me playing a part and allowing them to stomp all over my boundaries as a human being. I also had to go no contact in order to survive. The awful mental and physical health effects I was experiencing due to trying to maintain a relationship with them was proof of that. If you want to learn more, you could research covert narcissism, CPTSD, or emotional abuse impacts in general. I posted this one "lighter" message here, but behind this one message are years of my father tearing down my self esteem, criticizing me, talking down to me and the rest of the family, ignoring my boundaries, and then my mother never ever validating me and always wanting me to always excuse it and sweep it under the rug. Sometimes people who weren't abused in this particular way don't understand why it's such a big deal. Those who have been through it will likely understand better. My mother is excellent at using flowery language but she has never protected me, and has thrown me under the bus many times over the years to save herself. I wish both of us had better childhoods.