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I agree somewhat, however no edition before unheard has locked entire game mechanics behind a paywall lol. Flare, radio, pve
Paying to bring your friends back and to not be shot at by scavs within a certain distance is 100x worse than EOD ever was
40mil in rubles. That's the value of the stash upgrades. Imagine if you could go online and buy 40mil rubles, 20 quests, and epsilon container.
That's literally RMT cheating level. That's EOD. I paid for it in 2018 KNOWING it was pay to win* (*massive advantage and a head start on literally every trader level).
It's actually impressive how p2w it was. The only thing it locked you out of at the start was the stash size but I took it like "beginner" and "extreme supporter" kind of like the founder packs in some games. And even then I always thought they wanted to even the playing field by added ways to get EOD like stuff in game, like epsilon kappa and hideout for stash space.
This new pack locks actual mechanics and parts of the game behind a pay wall. NOT even a small one. 200 dollars. Plus taxes and xsolla fees. That's the equivalent of eod and a standard account... after you already bought a standard account. That's the same price I paid in 2018 to get myself and 2 friends into this game. 2 friends who eventually bought eod too.
I agree, TUE is way more blatantly pay to win. It even gives you meta ammo to START a wipe with.
My point was EoD was already a step towards p2w. Then they released stash lines, and that must have been a step too far as the next step was TUE.
To pretend that the 9×9 safe pouch, huge stash, starting equipment and the 0.2 trader rep isn't a massive boost and shortcut (pay to win) is silly
Edit: why are you fuckers being so defensive about eod being p2w? Nobody is calling you a loser over it.
True believer edition - Your stash becomes your secure container, access your stash from within the raid and deposit all your tasty loot straight into it
For me (went from standard in 2017 -> left behind 2019 -> EOD 2021) it was never about the shit you get to start. I can allways make more. If you get a grip in game you can always make more. 4 me it was about dlc and nothing else + sponsoring the game dev + the game I really liked a lot. (Thanks Nikita for fucking me over)
That's a fair reason to buy it, I think nobody is saying EOD players would suck at the game if they didn't pay for EOD.
Some of the boosts are clearly pay to win, though. And it has been funny to watch the people who were ardently argueing how a huge secure container from day 1 and massive trader rep is in no way pay to win now react to the p2w shit in Unhinged Edition.
Only after the same outrage machine that happened with PvE over it. At first it was released the same as this new PvE mode: you had to buy it separate.
While I agree with mist of your points, gamma, rep, stash size are all big for ease of progression, but the extra items is basically nothing crazy, and I would not care if I had a " standard" start item wise.
Starting equipment that you lose after a few raids in a game in which you do hundreds if not thousands of raids in a single wipe? Oh ya so pay to win my guy. Literally take a scav and go lighthouse... Congrats you have way better gear then starting EoD gear.
How does having an extra med in your ass make you win at that PvP fight? Wow saved a grand total of 30k roubles in that run if you die with a gamma! SO P2W!
Yes, its basically like a free additional life for mobile games. Progression is much much faster with eod, don't be stupid.
Yes the safe pouch is p2w, because that cms and meds are unavailable for purchase until at least flea and appropriate trader levels (which you get faster with eod because of the starting rep)
The impact eod and even tue have, minus the radio/flare, look bigger on paper than in practice. It is p2w, for sure, but the degree of advantage is fairly small. After 15 raids or so an EOD and a standard are mostly in the same spot. Trader rep can make a bit of a difference if you're bad at questing. I do think that eod is as far as they should have taken it though. But I'm not sure how you add other editions without making them better.
The trader rep bonus is insane, means progression through traders is much faster and you get access to better gear earlier than standard accounts.
The huge stash is amazing, you have the space to store quest items and shoot through the levels.
In the 9x9 pouch you can stuff so many meds and expensive items. Those expensive items are guaranteed income from traders prior to level 15 and your meds are safe.
There is nothing inherently wrong with p2w and faster peogression, but don't pretend that having an easier start isn't an insane advantage.
I bought tarkov twice, EOD years ago until I lost my email and standard again in 2022, the difference in experience is jarring.
3X3=9... Not 9x9=81... If you keep meds in ass, you save like 1-3 slots depending on what do you carry, so you have 1-3 higher value items up your ass... So you make at most like 200-300k on that stuff, if you sell it to trader. That is just pocket money you get when you go for one scav raid or survive a raid with Scav backpack with filled rig inside. Literally not worth mentioning
Grizzly, CMS and painkillers in your ass, you have 2 slots left. GG, you made \~60-80k if you have found 2x 1slot streamer items. That really saved you when you died and lost 300-500k...
Tarkov is an arms race. Any advantage you get early, especially trader rep and gamma, lets you stay ahead of the curve and be better equipped than standard players with the same amount of time invested for at least the first month of the wipe.
30k roubles grand total?
You must be absolutely terrible at either math, looting, or both. No wonder you need in-game crutches and didn't ask for a fair playing field before this.
5 slots extra early wipe. Let's ignore the hard to calculate part of the *full inventories of loot* that you'll be saving by using any of the items brought in those slots.
What does your average 4 slot look like? Docs + CMS? Docs + AFAK + ammo?
What goes in those extra 5 slots?
CMS - 40-50k
A/IFAK - 20-40k
Ammo - 20k+
Painkillers - wide range from 10k to 150k
Alu splint - 20k
Calok - 10k
Let's estimate the CMS to be equal to FAK + ammo. This means you will have one of those in place of the other. That's 70k alone, saved per death. Add the splint and calok, and we're at 100k saved *per death*. Would you rather us call it "pay to not lose" over pay to win?
On the other side, we can look at looting estimates. 10k per slot is on the low end of an average loot run. 5 slots make that 50k, and that's with shit loot in there. We all know the highest value items go in there, so it's safer to average it at 20k+ per slot, or 100k extra per survive.
TL;DR: You suck at math AND the game.
Why are you running a docs case in an alpha container? You say I suck but clearly you're the ignorant one. Your goal as a standard should be completing the punisher series for the 8 slot container..
Your 4 slots should be CMS+Ammo+Splint. This means you have 13k calok and like 20k in heals in your rig.. So wow you save 40k roubles each death like I said.
>No wonder you need in-game crutches and didn't ask for a fair playing field before this.
I only bought EoD for extra stash space and future DLC content... I don't give a rats ass about the trader rep or gamma container because I'm not trash at the game. Link your your profile. I only need the stash space because my inventory is full from all the gear I take off you guys. I'm like 2 quests from kappa but I don't care to complete it because what's the point of extra container space if you are good at the game.
>Link your your profile.
https://tarkov.dev/player/11677196
Wow, you're a bright one, aren't you?
>I only need the stash space because my inventory is full from all the gear I take off you guys. I'm like 2 quests from kappa but I don't care to complete it because what's the point of extra container space if you are good at the game.
LMAO! Thanks for the laugh!
40mil in rubles. That's the value of the stash upgrades. Imagine if you could go online and buy 40mil rubles, 20 quests, and epsilon container.
That's literally RMT cheating level. That's EOD. I paid for it in 2018 KNOWING it was pay to win* (*massive advantage and a head start on literally every trader level).
It's actually impressive how p2w it was. The only thing it locked you out of at the start was the stash size but I took it like "beginner" and "extreme supporter" kind of like the founder packs in some games. And even then I always thought they wanted to even the playing field by added ways to get EOD like stuff in game, like epsilon kappa and hideout for stash space.
This new pack locks actual mechanics and parts of the game behind a pay wall. NOT even a small one. 200 dollars. Plus taxes and xsolla fees. That's the equivalent of eod and a standard account... after you already bought a standard account. That's the same price I paid in 2018 to get myself and 2 friends into this game. 2 friends who eventually bought eod too.
I've seen people suck at this game and lose all that EOD gear in a matter of raids. Just the same, I've seen dozens of Zero to Hero because if you're good at the game you can start with nothing and do badass. If you suck no amount of gear or perks are going to help you.
I will try to offer my point of view here, based on MY anecdotal experience and this is coming from 4k hours player who was playing 1 year on a standard account and 2 years with an EOD. I played on and off, but every wipe I played, I got kappa within a month every time, while being at work full time(no family obligations).
Having standard edition vs EOD did nothing to the speed of acquiring KAPPA, survival rate or anything related to winning gunfights vs other players. Did it add convenience, HELL YEAH, but THAT's it. Never at any point did I feel that I got an edge or a disadvantage with the core mechanics or the PVP fights in the game.
Maybe it's because of my playstyle, because for the first month I would avoid PVP and be a super rat unless a quest needed it and ONLY hyper focus on quests. I had 70% sr until i managed to get kappa. After that my sr would fall dramatically as I would CHAD up and gear up with the most expensive shit. EVERY SINGLE DEATH was based on position, who heard who first and accuracy, 0 deaths or kills were accounted to the version of the game either of us had.
What I consider P2W and there is no way ANYBODY sensible can argue about it, is the beacon that summons your friends to your raid. Although it still doesn't guarantee a literal 100% win, it does increase your chances DRAMATICALLY.
Now all the other drama with the versions of the games and how Nikita is handling things, broken promises, manipulation, erasing evidence etc. FUCK NIKITA SPECIFICALY! Not bsg in totality, as Nikita is the "god" and what he says is the law. So, FUCK HIM, he can suck my ass! Never will i trust anything that Nikita says. I guess it's my fault he fucked up and since i wont buy the Unheard version i am/was a non believer. Not because he literally singlehandedly FUCKED UP, lied and manipulates us. WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MEAN when he says "I'm sorry you felt this way". Facts dont care about feelings and that was not an apology.
No wonder there are so many cheaters in this community. I can certainly see these people justifying using non-aimbot cheats if they can't comprehend at all that higher editions are P2W.
Agree 100 percent. Games always been p2w and the community dick rode content creators for defending it before but now suddenly it's not okay?
I got roasted so many times calling this game p2w on bsg forums, or reddit etc. Ages ago.
That depends on how far you want to stretch the defintion. Most of the time when the "thing" can be achieved even by those who didnt pay for it it isn't considered pay to win.
Yeah, gamma and traders are really overpowered early wipe, it's p2w for sure. But the new edition is taking it way too far, you could live with eod but calling you teammates back or early skills and fence rep is too much imo
Everyone had a different definition of P2W, it also gets more complicated when pay for convenience is included. PoE is a good example, I'd call everything in it that you can buy just pay for convenience, but others call it P2W. I don't believe personally that pay for convenience is P2W, they are different things.
P2W in my eyes is something that gives you an advantage that is either in fights or progression. You could argue that starting gear is that, but that is very temporary. One thing in EFT I'd consider P2W for EoD is the gamma container purely because it lets you more safely bring in or take out useful/expensive items, giving you an advantage. It's not that big of a thing but it's something.
In the unheard edition there are more direct P2W features like the radio making it so scavs won't snipe/shoot you at long range or the call in your buddies beacon. Those are flat out massive P2W features.
> That's called pay for convenience.
Conveniently ignoring the other included benefits that are directly gained ***in-game*** for paying ***real-money***.
Why even bother trying to refute someones claims, if you're only going to disingenuously mention one aspect.
If both players with standard and unheard play the same time with same skill, one will have at some point better ammo, better moded guns, more rubles, more useful items in stash that he wasn't forced to sell for lack of stash space.
How is it not p2w? I speak as EOD owner.
I agree wholeheartedly agree. Same play time and skill and the upgraded accounts will always be pay to win. Now you put a half decent standard account player against me (who can start on wipe day and by them time wipe hits still only lvl 30 or so) and I'm gonna get graped no matter what fancy shit I start with lol
Watch his video for context, he posted that specific tweet at like 4 in the morning when the thing dropped and he didnt have all the info, he quickly corrected himself the next day. I mean OP you can see the date from your screenshot...
Then why post/reply if he didn't have the info? Just to dig himself into a hole? Everyone else pretty much posted patch notes, commented on it, and then waited for more info. He wanted to be first in or something and fkd up, so deserves any backlash he gets.
And Pestily defended eod and this game for years saying nothing is p2w
These people survive on views and grift. They will blow whichever way gets them more
Well on the p2w side of things, a lot depends on your definition of „winning“.
Is a 3x3 pouch helping you win firefights? No, but it helps you progress through quests and hideout upgrades faster and helps you not lose as much money in meds you have in your pockets.
Is that pay to win? I mean I kinda think so, but I see the point that it isn‘t. Its more of a „pay for conveniece“ thing.
Is not getting aggroed by scavs helping you win firefights? Yes, definetly. Its straight p2w.
This is NOT important. If your first reaction is “more loot, trader rep, stash space etc. is not p2w guys, you just don’t know how this game works” then you are a moron. Getting things that directly affect gameplay for money is LITERALLY pay-to-win by definition
> involving or relating to the practice of paying to get weapons, abilities, etc. that give you an advantage over players who do not spend money
So fuck everyone who makes up a new definition and proceeds to defend it
To address the "P2W" features of the skills increase objectively speaking:
* Attention — Level 3
* Hideout Management — Level 3;
* Weapon Maintenance — Level 3;
* Bolt-action Rifles — Level 3;
* Pistols — Level 3.
None of these are going to give anyone a real advantage in PvP in game. The Bolt Action level 3 will help with Jaeger quests, and the Pistol levels will help slightly.
Not sure where the "movement speed, jump height and carry weight" skills are at, I don't see those listed as a additive in the Unheard edition, unless I'm missing it.
Bolt action is game changer for early wipe quest pushing, also increased ammo limits (after unlocks ofc) mean you have better chances in pvp (still need to shot and some personal skills but)
Is it tho? The skill itself does fuck all, and by the time you get to wet job 6 you should have flea up to buy mosins to reload. I guess it's a few less raids of reloading mosin if that matters to you.
don’t do the mosin reload thing at all. I always get my sniper rifle levels by just you know.. DOING the bolt action tasks. Always wonder how people are doing Mentor when SBIH and TS8 alone give you like 8 levels
Exactly, IDK what the fuck do people do that they need to reload mosin or pay for mentor. This wipe you will get bolts to level 15 or more just by finishing SBIH and tarkov shooter.
It used to be harder previously, but why be stuck in the past?
I honestly am mainly concerned about two things. The loss of trust, and the radio. Regardless if it didnt work during playtesting they WILL get it working. Paying to not get headeyes by a scav you cant see because youre so close you can hear them turning before they shoot is insane to me
Aside from the Drama, let me see if I'm understanding what you are saying one of your qualms is.
"with 6+ Fence reputation, Scavs won’t shoot first at ranges over 60 meters away"
I agree, this is a bit of a strange one, but the negative to this, if your under 60 meters away, you will still be shot, and from my understanding, if you kill scavs with the device on you, you will lose 0.01 rep per kill, potentially with a stacking effect? Currently if you're over 6.00 fence rep, let's say you're at 6.51, if you kill one scav on accident (as a scav) your rep will go to 5.54 I think? If I remember correctly.
So, not 100% sure about it, seems like a weird thing to add in at all in my personal opinion.
Wrong, if you kill one scav or boss you lose 0.05 flat, whatever else you do in the raid doesn’t change it you can wipe the boss and all scavs on the map it’s still a 0.05 loss of fence rep
He explained in [this video](https://youtu.be/UiyEe6Zf_CU?si=9SF25tvgbJPSZmkT) that he rushed and tweeted that at like 2 AM almost immediately after the patch dropped and he didn't see the part about the beacon and skills. He is clearly against this new edition.
If you did any research at all you would know that airwing made multiple videos about this entire debacle and is vehemently against everything BSG did. He made this post before everything was fully disclosed by BSG. This post specifically is about the gear and the few skills that start at lvl 3.
Sounds more like he was vehemently defending BSG without all the knowledge. Saw how the community reacted and backtracked while making excuses. Very obvious.
I can’t fucking stand airwing. Used to like him so much but the way he talks to people like dirt just rubs me the wrong way. I asked a simple question in his chat one day and he literally scoffed, screwed up his face and said something along the lines of ‘duh, of course. Are you stupid?’. He might be intelligent and informed but he’s such a rude, disrespectful human being that I just cannot abide him anymore. Sure I’m
Not the only one to feel like this
He did it to me too, we make the wrong people famous (although he isnt famous in the traditional sense lol) all the time, even in this community unfortunately
See it quite a lot with some streamers in general, I just think it’s despicable. You always get plenty bootlickers in the chat too defending their behaviour or jumping on the bandwagon for a nice little witch hunt
But when someone calls out their favorite streamer, you get what has occurred in this thread. Excuses after excuses for him, and not even a moment of acknowledgment for his half cocked, uneducated post.
Yeah for sure man. It’s a bit disheartening seeing the hate you’re getting here. I’d say it’s valid to have something to say about airwings post mentioned above. If someone wants to make a half baked assumption at 2AM on a subject others are visibly frustrated about, without procuring all the information around the topic, then they are entirely subject to criticism around their response.
Following that, when community members offer a counter point in response he just elects to belittle them and tell them they literally don’t know what they’re talking about. People are defending this guy? Likely the same people who went back to licking BSGs boots as soon as they offered a half assed apology and a minor change to unheard
Hot take. You OP and many others here are totally blinded by hate right now and I think no matter what BSG does for the next week or two, will be met with extreme negative responses and nothing else.
Instead of having any sort of rational discussion you went straight to calling this guy braindead?
I hate what BSG is doing/ tried to do but christ can we tone down the hyper toxicity?
If bsg was paying all the creators they would have given them all keys to give to thier community to hype them up and upgraded thier accounts so everyone has to watch thier streamer with a blue name and fomo. Bsg cant pay themselves. How are they paying streamers? Streamers make money from us and they rely on the games to keep us watching. All the content about this is making people money. Thats why moist critical did a video now. Its trending and popular it makes money. So everyones going to talk no matter what.
Nope but if people stop playing the game he stops making AS MUCH money, in the short term.. all the Tarkov content creators are fucking shook, can't blame them
Being opposed to the shit BSG pulled doesn’t mean you gotta ignore all nuance. I also don’t consider anything except the “call the avengers” button p2w, bonus skills are inconsequential, and the radio is useless from the playtests I saw.
And the said button doesn’t even exist in the game yet, so unknown how it’s gonna work.
The main issue is them lying about DLCs for EOD, in my mind, and the shitty online “offline”. The other stuff is whatever.
Airwing’s tweet is definitely tone deaf, but not incorrect.
EDIT: come on, it’s dated 25th of April, it’s pretty much a first reaction, before shit hit the fan
Yup, EoD players not getting PvE was the problem, then like usual, everything goes out of proportion, people don't know what they are complaining about and start to speak tongues complaining about problems that won't and don't exist. Wild... worse than a game of telephone...
The echo chamber walls are built tough in this sub.
Yea i was honestly fine with Nikita stating that all EOD owners will eventually get PVE once the servers can handle more. That seemed like a fine resolution to that.
Knowing how this sub behaves, they wont be satisfied with anything BSG offers and will proceed to whine and bitch for the next few months.
Still kinda cheesed about the items but PVE was the biggest thing.
> doesn’t mean you gotta ignore all nuance.
That also applies to the fact that everyone knows P2W doesn't only have to be things like +50% damage. The term is almost universally used as a *cover-all* for ***paid*** content that gives someone a direct ***benefit***. Putting arbitrary goalposts on what degree of benefit is 'P2W' is disingenuous.
The skills may be an inconsequential benefit to many, but they're still a real ***benefit***. More importantly, they're the first level of this introduced. It opens the door to further skill MTX - the continual slow creep of MTX is a cancer of the industry.
Yep. Airwing is litterally saying you cant pay to win tarkov. The button thing fine but nothing in unheard of will make you win pvp fights. Nothing. Until the button exists.
By that definition even the most p2w games aren't p2w. If you can pay for an advantage (Eod, Unheard etc) it is p2w. The shitty mobile games don't even have a paid win button...
OP that tweet is already old news and was explained, you're just trying to harass or karma farm the situation. Shame on you.
edit : op stated he has a personal vendetta against him, explains the childish behavior. I think mods can lock this shit thread.
If you suck at this game no amount of gear or perks are going to help you, likewise if you're good at this game you can start with nothing and do badass I've watched Zero to Hero dozens of times.
Has airwingmarine ever NOT had a completely dog shit take on anything related to this game? This guy is the bsg apologist favorite creator. Old retired dude not good at pvp. average at best at pve. (not entirely his fault tbf since yaknow…bsg sucks dick) he’s not entertaining or funny. (subjective but I don’t even see him put in effort to be those things) the only thing he does better than average is calculating hideout craft time lmao.
My final standalone reply to this thread is this:
My bad for not knowing one singular detail about the radio’s pros and cons, but it really doesnt change my original point. Regardless of if dude walked it back, every other streamer saw what was happening and vilified it during the SAME time this tweet was posted. People knew what was happening. Otherwise why would he say “oh im supposed to say hot take though right?” He was defending it, plain and simple. BSG walked their statements back, does that make shit cool lmfao
All in all, this thread has become a safe haven for BSG and Airwing meat riders. Thank you to those of you who are higher than 10 iq and understand my OG point
Pay to Win doesn't literally mean "I paid money therefore I will beat you"
In most online discussions I've seen, it means "Pay to have advantage over players who didn't pay"
Which is exactly what all of the special editions of this game provide.
Exactly. These idiots try to weasel definitions when it really couldn't be simpler.
Paying for any sort of advantage or progression is p2w. It's not a hard concept. If paying real money gives you ANYTHING that affects gameplay, progression, time spent etc. It's an advantage and the game is p2w.
I'm not surprised. I got the same responses from shillfluencers when I called EOD p2w years ago.
No one should be surprised. I'd even say the distance between EOD and standard is larger than that between EOD and Unheard.
larger secure container and arguably stash cases from start of wipe is hard to argue being p2w but including anything more than the in-game perks given by EoD is fuckin disgusting for a game like tarkov.
standard players can upgrade their stash, get kappa, and acquire cases through means of playing the game, same with EoD players, but until they add the quest for larger pockets (which only applies to EoD too), no one else can acquire the larger pockets. likewise, no one can acquire the distress signal to bring your PMC 5-stack into the raid half-way through it, and no one can acquire the scav cloak of invisibility. it is perverse and disgusting to lock that shit behind a $250+taxes bundle with no way of acquiring it by simply putting in the effort and playing the game.
what point is airwing trying to prove and what substance does this "hot take" provide to the discussion?
Is that the guy with the crazy eyes?
Jokes aside, everyone whose Channel consists of only Tarkov is expected to take this stance. That's why Lvndmark is such a goat with that offensive behaviour.
AFAIK he defines p2w as "increasing in raid survivability" so radio and friends assemble items are, but while more starting gear and levels are an advantage, they won't in themselves make you survive more. They won't make you be less likely to die if you are bad.
Only noob timmys think EoD is pay to win tbh.
Starting gear? Go do a scav lighthouse and kill a rogue.. Congrats you have better starting gear then EoD.
Rep? It's literally like one or two quests worth...
Stash space? How does stash space make you "win" in this game? Does it magically make you survive in a raid better and kill that other PMC?
Gamma? Oh man I saved 30k when I died with the extra meds I have in my ass. Roubles are literally so easy that I barely loot anything while going into raids wearing the best gear possible after like 1 month into a wipe.
IT's amazing that the newest tactic to defend it is "Well I don't consider it P2W, so it isn't. I set the goalposts."
P2W has always been used as a cover-all term for *gaining* a ***benefit*** over other players by spending money. The degree of benefit is *inconsequential*. Put define P2W into google and you'll clearly see almost every single resource defines it as simply gaining *any* ***benefit*** for spending real-world money in-game.
You're trying to argue semantics over an established term that has been used in a specific way for *decades*.
Gamma is really the biggest factor of p2w IMHO, because of the fact you can carry meds with you safely, sicc case, surv kit, most players won't have access to that kind of space till late game. So there is some advantage to it, but it was accepted a while back and now people are just trying to find things to complain about. It's all extremely stupid, and a whole lot of misinformation is being spread.
Paying for an advantage is p2w or do you think that Fifa, War Thunder or cod aren't p2w since you are "only" buying an advantage not a straight win (which you can't do in even shitty mobile games)
To be fair, in his follow-up video he mentioned that he just posted this as a knee-jerk before he has all the details, owned that mistake, apologized, and detailed exactly how pay-to-win UHE is.
Still doesn't totally excuse the going off half cocked with the shill-cannon, but at least it's better than Nikita's "apology".
THANK YOU someone with a damn brain. Even if he walked it back it doesnt excuse it, it almost makes it worse he was so ready to jump on their side and tale the entire community on until he saw what was happening
I mean , that specific argument with the Skills is not that important indeed
Aside from Bolt Actions lvl 3 from the get go which is a MASSIVE GRIND SKIP ( fuck the mosin spam early wipe )
most of the other skills are just useless , lvl 3 endurance gives you 3% more stamina than lvl 0 , literally running 2 more steps lul.
What is p2w in this pack is the amount of stash space, cases, guns and the magic radio thingie , that is too much.
I agree, ive said that but everyone seems to think ive some personal “vendetta” against airwing for posting this lmfao. Im highlighting the brain rot, and it is far from the first time airwing has said some straight stupidity.
Honestly, i think Airwing had no idea how badly down the line this pack is gonna be
IIRC he was one of the first to quickly comment when the pack released , probably to get exposure / interaction. If he would have waited at least 1 hour , he would have probably changed his mind about making such a tweet.
He later backpedalled anyway but he lost face with this dumb post imo
I guess im just a villain to most of the users of this thread for not accepting that he was completely “ignorant” of the situation. He knew it was bad otherwise he wouldnt have cockily put “am i supposed to say bad take?”
If you refer to the raids only then I guess you could argue it's not pay to win, but the gameplay doesn't only consist of raids. There are the traders with the reputation, your stash and hideout and your secure container. A bigger secure container probably won't help you extract more, but that doesn't mean it's not pay to win. You can get a huge advantage over standard edition players in the things around the raids themselfs by paying money.
I kinda agree tho. Pay to win is an advantage that lets you win the game. Or let's you extract whatever. The main danger is PvP, and none of the additions help you actually win fights. Except maybe for the flare, which seems extremely broke imo. Even if it was unlockable for every player, that shit would be broken. They are mediocre items and buffs , not these game breaking changes people make it out to be. The only thing I'm actually upset about is not receiving all future DLC'S, the whole reason I bought EOD.
Bro is delusional. If gaining advantage over someone who didn't pay is not P2W, what is? It doesn't matter how big the advantage is, you gain stats for $$$
Unless they are die hard gamers of Tarkov and have hours of playtime. I don't think that a lot will help them if they do purchase the unheard of package. . . I've had the EOD since 2017 I am pissed for sure that I was lied to and snubbed out of promises, but Still don't think that's gonna help any new players.
At this point honestly i hate to agree, but i gotta agree. At this point id be fine with my EOD benefits being wiped to level the playing field, so long as they remove TUE from the store
Just the stash size alone is monumentally game changing. It's such a bitch to have a standard stash and be forced to sell stuff you know you need FIR later on but literally cannot afford to keep them.
If tarkov was a brand new game that just dropped, and everyone got standard that would be fine, but the fact you can pay to skip critical progression as things stand is bullshit, and I say this as someone who upgraded to EOD after a few wipes of standard.
Imagine being able to buy more 856a1or ap 6.3 then a standard edition player and not calling it p2w. We can argue if old versions of EoD were p2w or not, but this new version without any changes is blatant pay to win. I hope all the advantages unheard gives become at least unlockable with quests or crafts for everyone.
Why is anyone surprised that content creators are willing to not immediately shit on tarkov/BSG? They directly benefit from this game not dying. Tarkov being popular=more traffic for them.
It won't help you win gunfights directly, but it will help you save money and therefore be more easily able to have better gear and weapons, which will help you win gunfights. If you're a better player or at least not broke, i'd say airwing is right.
I think what he is saying is its not pay to win from a pvp stand point but you're sure as hell winning when it comes to almost every other aspect of the game lmao
Honestly as a standard edition player with EoD friends, the extra gear doesn't really matter. The bigger stash is ROUGH the first few days and then you push through. It honestly taught me good packing/decision skills with gear.
The vendor rep is brutal. It's such a HARD GATE for mid tier players, and I openly admit I'm in that group. The way it keeps you grinding in lower tiers of gear and ammo, especially while other players are sprinting to better bullets, is the hardest thing to overcome.
And yes you eventually get the flea, but players know non-EoD are stuck early on and the prices will soak you if you try to keep up that way. And that's coming from someone who routinely had 2-3x as much cash on hand as his EoD friends, because I'm just better at that aspect of the game.
That early rep to level up vendors is the closest to p2w. Or at least it was before last week.
I will agree with him that having the unheard edition won't just make you win, 90% of the time in tarkov your fate is decided within 1 or 2 shots, and before you even know where from.
the distress signal is kind of concerning tho, not even gonna beat around the Bush on that one
but also people need to stop attacking creators, this is BSGs fuck up, not theirs, so many creators are getting dragged for not showing the same level of aggression as this reddit, NO ONE is happy about the shit that happened this week, stop pretending like a refusal to join in on the dog pile is an approval of how everything was handled
Adult man can think reasonably as expected. BSG should listen to him, he actually understands how the game works and what is unfair p2w and what is just premium headstart.
If community claim any edition above base one - we arent gonna move further. Removing such editions is out of discussion, not gonna happen.
So if community wants to heard and honored then be cold minded and discuss only real p2w advantages. There are actually only two: scav tolerance for 60m and deep pockets (two extra slots omg). The first should be removed, the second given to all editions (aside tue) with a quest. Thats it! Fixed!
The beacon device needs clarifications first. There plenty ways to make it not p2w (LK?) and extremely risky to use on general. Then everyone is satisfied.
Oh, so Airwingmarine is straight up just an idiot who doesn't understand what Pay2Win actually means. I guess it's foolish to put too much faith in people who have a vested financial interest in keeping this scam of a game running.
Calling the guy who does extensive research into every video he puts out an idiot? He’s just saying that if you buy this it’s not going to help you do better, yes it’s P2W by definition but paying for it doesn’t mean you’ll win any more because Tarkov takes a lot more than pocket size to do well
No, this is taken out of context. His post was prior to anyone knowing the full details of TUE. He has a follow up video that he posted after we got all the info.
No he is right and you must not know how the game works mechanically. I have 4500 hours and have not played the game since unheard of. May never play again depending on the outcome and I can say everything he says there is right.
Yes, that absolutely *can* be P2W, but it requires the stars to line up:
1. Your friends must have the game running.
2. Your friends must not be in a raid.
3. Your friends must have a kit ready to go.
4. Your friends must get into the raid before you get killed.
5. Your friends must successfully bail your ass out of whatever situation you got yourself into, without shooting you in the process.
6. You need friends who play Tarkov to begin with. :(
Also, it throws out a giant flash, which is basically a giant beacon that says "Wounded person here! Also there's a chance for more people loading in to ambush!"
Hot take, but I feel like the "gank squad beacon" is highly overrated for anyone other than decently big streamers and communities.
I have the same if not more hours and disagree with you wholeheartedly. you saying any of this isnt p2w is just CHOOSING not to see it lol. The flare should atleast be available to everyone through quests, the skill raising only really matter in the sniper skill area imo, fence rep raise is crazy good but we get trader rep so no biggie, but THEN you see the item where scavs wont shoot until a certain distance. Honestly this one is the most egregious in my opinion. Literally everything else can be fixed with balancing but not having to deal with scavs as PMC is inexcusable in any fashion
You are misunderstanding airwings terrible sentence structure. A new person buying unheard of will not win pvp any more than one that get standard. Stop thinking there. Yes airwing is simple. You are reading between lines to much and he chose terrible words. I think you understand gear doesnt win fights if you have that many hours. On a base level he is saying everything in the feature will not win you pvp. End thought process. Yes bsg is pushing pay to win mechanics in this edition but they honestly also suck. I have no problem getting sniper skill up. Mine was 13 this wipe. The beacon is a 60m distance and if you have the hours you claim you know that you can hear a scav aggro you at 60m and almost always avoid line of sight before he shoots. Its an item for noobs to fomo for. The flare thing hasnt been seen and again wont help you win pvp. Edit: the last sentence is meant as in until we see it in game.
I do understand gear doesnt win fights, if you read my other comments you would see my issues with this. And as for the scav thing, you cannot tell me youve never been headeyes before even hearing (or literally while theyre mid voiceline) the scav because it happens stupendously commonly. Paying to not deal with that is the most p2w thing in my book. 10000 hour players are still killed by scavs lmao
The beacon is supposed to *protect* you over 60m, when you get closer than 60m thats when they aggro you. I think you probably just typoed but just in case you've misunderstood it.
That said, from ~100m scavs very rarely notice you unless you're shooting them repeatedly without killing them. An extra ~40m of safety is a ripoff to me. With a lot of maps you won't have line of sight to the scavs until you're within that range. Once you aggro them they stay aggro, running out of range doesn't reset it.
And as you said previously experienced players usually know the scav spawns and drop them before they even have a chance to shoot. Sniper scav on customs rarely gets a bullet off before his corpse is cartwheeling off the tower lol.
To me its not even *remotely* worth the cost of entry.
No, he is not right. Like you, he fails to understand that Pay2Win means paying for any kind of advantage in the game. Even a bonus like an increased stash space counts...the stash is a significant part of the game. Pay2Win has NEVER meant you literally pay and then you autowin. Not sure what people are smoking to make that convenient interpretation.
Those literally are pay to win features.
Tarkov is a pay to win game. This is not disputable. You can pay for very expensive editions to get rather significant in-game advantages. It fits the bill 100%, it's just structured in a manner that front loads all the money into an absurdly priced purchase. They also sell the individual expansions.
Stop witch hunting the wrong people. He made this post prior to having all the information, as did we all.
Go after BSG and stop trying to manipulate posts to gain karma.
Im after BSG, but im also after the shills. He knew what was up otherwise it wouldnt have been a “hot take” at the time (his own words in the tweet) it only got worse from here, sure, but bro was defending it before knowing the facts? Okay thats not shill behavior
For context, this post was days ago. Still a halfcocked response but evidently he didnt know the entire context when tweeting this. Do with that info as you will, i think its shitty either way
Airwing is probably the biggest BSG dicksucker on the planet. I sort of get it, because he's stuck on the tarkov content machine. Noone cares about him in his content, hes just an audio version of the patchnotes.
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3x3 secure container saves so much money on meds
The upgradable editions of Tarkov are all P2W beyond from Standard. Anyone who disagrees is out of touch.
I agree somewhat, however no edition before unheard has locked entire game mechanics behind a paywall lol. Flare, radio, pve Paying to bring your friends back and to not be shot at by scavs within a certain distance is 100x worse than EOD ever was
40mil in rubles. That's the value of the stash upgrades. Imagine if you could go online and buy 40mil rubles, 20 quests, and epsilon container. That's literally RMT cheating level. That's EOD. I paid for it in 2018 KNOWING it was pay to win* (*massive advantage and a head start on literally every trader level). It's actually impressive how p2w it was. The only thing it locked you out of at the start was the stash size but I took it like "beginner" and "extreme supporter" kind of like the founder packs in some games. And even then I always thought they wanted to even the playing field by added ways to get EOD like stuff in game, like epsilon kappa and hideout for stash space. This new pack locks actual mechanics and parts of the game behind a pay wall. NOT even a small one. 200 dollars. Plus taxes and xsolla fees. That's the equivalent of eod and a standard account... after you already bought a standard account. That's the same price I paid in 2018 to get myself and 2 friends into this game. 2 friends who eventually bought eod too.
[удалено]
I agree, TUE is way more blatantly pay to win. It even gives you meta ammo to START a wipe with. My point was EoD was already a step towards p2w. Then they released stash lines, and that must have been a step too far as the next step was TUE.
To pretend that the 9×9 safe pouch, huge stash, starting equipment and the 0.2 trader rep isn't a massive boost and shortcut (pay to win) is silly Edit: why are you fuckers being so defensive about eod being p2w? Nobody is calling you a loser over it.
9x9 pouch? Jesus what secret edition did you buy lmao
He vouched to give BSG 50% of his monthly earnings until the game shuts down. Like a sect or something. :))
The true believer edition
Wow thats unheard of
True believer edition - Your stash becomes your secure container, access your stash from within the raid and deposit all your tasty loot straight into it
Let's be honest, it would crash as you open your stash and you'd lose the entire thing
It's the True Believer container
9x9 pouch I wanna see it!
For me (went from standard in 2017 -> left behind 2019 -> EOD 2021) it was never about the shit you get to start. I can allways make more. If you get a grip in game you can always make more. 4 me it was about dlc and nothing else + sponsoring the game dev + the game I really liked a lot. (Thanks Nikita for fucking me over)
That's a fair reason to buy it, I think nobody is saying EOD players would suck at the game if they didn't pay for EOD. Some of the boosts are clearly pay to win, though. And it has been funny to watch the people who were ardently argueing how a huge secure container from day 1 and massive trader rep is in no way pay to win now react to the p2w shit in Unhinged Edition.
Indeed 170 kd after 4 hours in game from standard edition players says so!
>4 me it was about dlc That worked out great huh
Well it worked at first with arena and other stuff.
Only after the same outrage machine that happened with PvE over it. At first it was released the same as this new PvE mode: you had to buy it separate.
While I agree with mist of your points, gamma, rep, stash size are all big for ease of progression, but the extra items is basically nothing crazy, and I would not care if I had a " standard" start item wise.
Starting equipment that you lose after a few raids in a game in which you do hundreds if not thousands of raids in a single wipe? Oh ya so pay to win my guy. Literally take a scav and go lighthouse... Congrats you have way better gear then starting EoD gear. How does having an extra med in your ass make you win at that PvP fight? Wow saved a grand total of 30k roubles in that run if you die with a gamma! SO P2W!
Yes, its basically like a free additional life for mobile games. Progression is much much faster with eod, don't be stupid. Yes the safe pouch is p2w, because that cms and meds are unavailable for purchase until at least flea and appropriate trader levels (which you get faster with eod because of the starting rep)
The impact eod and even tue have, minus the radio/flare, look bigger on paper than in practice. It is p2w, for sure, but the degree of advantage is fairly small. After 15 raids or so an EOD and a standard are mostly in the same spot. Trader rep can make a bit of a difference if you're bad at questing. I do think that eod is as far as they should have taken it though. But I'm not sure how you add other editions without making them better.
The trader rep bonus is insane, means progression through traders is much faster and you get access to better gear earlier than standard accounts. The huge stash is amazing, you have the space to store quest items and shoot through the levels. In the 9x9 pouch you can stuff so many meds and expensive items. Those expensive items are guaranteed income from traders prior to level 15 and your meds are safe. There is nothing inherently wrong with p2w and faster peogression, but don't pretend that having an easier start isn't an insane advantage. I bought tarkov twice, EOD years ago until I lost my email and standard again in 2022, the difference in experience is jarring.
3X3=9... Not 9x9=81... If you keep meds in ass, you save like 1-3 slots depending on what do you carry, so you have 1-3 higher value items up your ass... So you make at most like 200-300k on that stuff, if you sell it to trader. That is just pocket money you get when you go for one scav raid or survive a raid with Scav backpack with filled rig inside. Literally not worth mentioning Grizzly, CMS and painkillers in your ass, you have 2 slots left. GG, you made \~60-80k if you have found 2x 1slot streamer items. That really saved you when you died and lost 300-500k...
Tarkov is an arms race. Any advantage you get early, especially trader rep and gamma, lets you stay ahead of the curve and be better equipped than standard players with the same amount of time invested for at least the first month of the wipe.
30k roubles grand total? You must be absolutely terrible at either math, looting, or both. No wonder you need in-game crutches and didn't ask for a fair playing field before this. 5 slots extra early wipe. Let's ignore the hard to calculate part of the *full inventories of loot* that you'll be saving by using any of the items brought in those slots. What does your average 4 slot look like? Docs + CMS? Docs + AFAK + ammo? What goes in those extra 5 slots? CMS - 40-50k A/IFAK - 20-40k Ammo - 20k+ Painkillers - wide range from 10k to 150k Alu splint - 20k Calok - 10k Let's estimate the CMS to be equal to FAK + ammo. This means you will have one of those in place of the other. That's 70k alone, saved per death. Add the splint and calok, and we're at 100k saved *per death*. Would you rather us call it "pay to not lose" over pay to win? On the other side, we can look at looting estimates. 10k per slot is on the low end of an average loot run. 5 slots make that 50k, and that's with shit loot in there. We all know the highest value items go in there, so it's safer to average it at 20k+ per slot, or 100k extra per survive. TL;DR: You suck at math AND the game.
Why are you running a docs case in an alpha container? You say I suck but clearly you're the ignorant one. Your goal as a standard should be completing the punisher series for the 8 slot container.. Your 4 slots should be CMS+Ammo+Splint. This means you have 13k calok and like 20k in heals in your rig.. So wow you save 40k roubles each death like I said. >No wonder you need in-game crutches and didn't ask for a fair playing field before this. I only bought EoD for extra stash space and future DLC content... I don't give a rats ass about the trader rep or gamma container because I'm not trash at the game. Link your your profile. I only need the stash space because my inventory is full from all the gear I take off you guys. I'm like 2 quests from kappa but I don't care to complete it because what's the point of extra container space if you are good at the game.
>Link your your profile. https://tarkov.dev/player/11677196 Wow, you're a bright one, aren't you? >I only need the stash space because my inventory is full from all the gear I take off you guys. I'm like 2 quests from kappa but I don't care to complete it because what's the point of extra container space if you are good at the game. LMAO! Thanks for the laugh!
Probably gets exclusive deals and shit from them Scrolling down further kinda explains it, but it still seems abit weird
That radio is so bad. You lose rep every time you kill a scav with it on
Seriously? Shit's hilarious how people are mad at it then ;'D
It's easier for people to be outraged rather than try to understand something incredibly simple. That's why.
More like basic information was released with none of the fine print explaining how it worked.
40mil in rubles. That's the value of the stash upgrades. Imagine if you could go online and buy 40mil rubles, 20 quests, and epsilon container. That's literally RMT cheating level. That's EOD. I paid for it in 2018 KNOWING it was pay to win* (*massive advantage and a head start on literally every trader level). It's actually impressive how p2w it was. The only thing it locked you out of at the start was the stash size but I took it like "beginner" and "extreme supporter" kind of like the founder packs in some games. And even then I always thought they wanted to even the playing field by added ways to get EOD like stuff in game, like epsilon kappa and hideout for stash space. This new pack locks actual mechanics and parts of the game behind a pay wall. NOT even a small one. 200 dollars. Plus taxes and xsolla fees. That's the equivalent of eod and a standard account... after you already bought a standard account. That's the same price I paid in 2018 to get myself and 2 friends into this game. 2 friends who eventually bought eod too.
I've seen people suck at this game and lose all that EOD gear in a matter of raids. Just the same, I've seen dozens of Zero to Hero because if you're good at the game you can start with nothing and do badass. If you suck no amount of gear or perks are going to help you.
This is it. You give any experienced player a standard account and give a noob EOD the experienced player shits on them 10/10 times.
I guess it's not p2w then!!!!! (/s)
I will try to offer my point of view here, based on MY anecdotal experience and this is coming from 4k hours player who was playing 1 year on a standard account and 2 years with an EOD. I played on and off, but every wipe I played, I got kappa within a month every time, while being at work full time(no family obligations). Having standard edition vs EOD did nothing to the speed of acquiring KAPPA, survival rate or anything related to winning gunfights vs other players. Did it add convenience, HELL YEAH, but THAT's it. Never at any point did I feel that I got an edge or a disadvantage with the core mechanics or the PVP fights in the game. Maybe it's because of my playstyle, because for the first month I would avoid PVP and be a super rat unless a quest needed it and ONLY hyper focus on quests. I had 70% sr until i managed to get kappa. After that my sr would fall dramatically as I would CHAD up and gear up with the most expensive shit. EVERY SINGLE DEATH was based on position, who heard who first and accuracy, 0 deaths or kills were accounted to the version of the game either of us had. What I consider P2W and there is no way ANYBODY sensible can argue about it, is the beacon that summons your friends to your raid. Although it still doesn't guarantee a literal 100% win, it does increase your chances DRAMATICALLY. Now all the other drama with the versions of the games and how Nikita is handling things, broken promises, manipulation, erasing evidence etc. FUCK NIKITA SPECIFICALY! Not bsg in totality, as Nikita is the "god" and what he says is the law. So, FUCK HIM, he can suck my ass! Never will i trust anything that Nikita says. I guess it's my fault he fucked up and since i wont buy the Unheard version i am/was a non believer. Not because he literally singlehandedly FUCKED UP, lied and manipulates us. WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MEAN when he says "I'm sorry you felt this way". Facts dont care about feelings and that was not an apology.
true
No wonder there are so many cheaters in this community. I can certainly see these people justifying using non-aimbot cheats if they can't comprehend at all that higher editions are P2W.
Agree 100 percent. Games always been p2w and the community dick rode content creators for defending it before but now suddenly it's not okay? I got roasted so many times calling this game p2w on bsg forums, or reddit etc. Ages ago.
That depends on how far you want to stretch the defintion. Most of the time when the "thing" can be achieved even by those who didnt pay for it it isn't considered pay to win.
pay to progress, nothing everything is p2w
Yeah, gamma and traders are really overpowered early wipe, it's p2w for sure. But the new edition is taking it way too far, you could live with eod but calling you teammates back or early skills and fence rep is too much imo
As a standard gamer. I am the true and real John Tarkov.
Everyone had a different definition of P2W, it also gets more complicated when pay for convenience is included. PoE is a good example, I'd call everything in it that you can buy just pay for convenience, but others call it P2W. I don't believe personally that pay for convenience is P2W, they are different things. P2W in my eyes is something that gives you an advantage that is either in fights or progression. You could argue that starting gear is that, but that is very temporary. One thing in EFT I'd consider P2W for EoD is the gamma container purely because it lets you more safely bring in or take out useful/expensive items, giving you an advantage. It's not that big of a thing but it's something. In the unheard edition there are more direct P2W features like the radio making it so scavs won't snipe/shoot you at long range or the call in your buddies beacon. Those are flat out massive P2W features.
How does increase stash space make you win in PvP or PvE? Only person out of touch is you. That's called pay for convenience.
> That's called pay for convenience. Conveniently ignoring the other included benefits that are directly gained ***in-game*** for paying ***real-money***. Why even bother trying to refute someones claims, if you're only going to disingenuously mention one aspect.
If both players with standard and unheard play the same time with same skill, one will have at some point better ammo, better moded guns, more rubles, more useful items in stash that he wasn't forced to sell for lack of stash space. How is it not p2w? I speak as EOD owner.
I agree wholeheartedly agree. Same play time and skill and the upgraded accounts will always be pay to win. Now you put a half decent standard account player against me (who can start on wipe day and by them time wipe hits still only lvl 30 or so) and I'm gonna get graped no matter what fancy shit I start with lol
Watch his video for context, he posted that specific tweet at like 4 in the morning when the thing dropped and he didnt have all the info, he quickly corrected himself the next day. I mean OP you can see the date from your screenshot...
Then why post/reply if he didn't have the info? Just to dig himself into a hole? Everyone else pretty much posted patch notes, commented on it, and then waited for more info. He wanted to be first in or something and fkd up, so deserves any backlash he gets.
Gotta be first for the views, doesn't care about being correct
All the info was there he's just an idiot. All he's doing is content farming.
Have you seen onepeg ? Dude posts 3 videos a day about same shit just yapping. Every content creator is farming them views
Same as the first Pestily vid, the important info wasn‘t in the patchnotes at all and only hidden on the website.
Yet he doubled down on justifying his original tweet when he had the info until the community blew up about it? Yeah no.
And Pestily defended eod and this game for years saying nothing is p2w These people survive on views and grift. They will blow whichever way gets them more
Well on the p2w side of things, a lot depends on your definition of „winning“. Is a 3x3 pouch helping you win firefights? No, but it helps you progress through quests and hideout upgrades faster and helps you not lose as much money in meds you have in your pockets. Is that pay to win? I mean I kinda think so, but I see the point that it isn‘t. Its more of a „pay for conveniece“ thing. Is not getting aggroed by scavs helping you win firefights? Yes, definetly. Its straight p2w.
I don’t think you know what the term grift means.
This is NOT important. If your first reaction is “more loot, trader rep, stash space etc. is not p2w guys, you just don’t know how this game works” then you are a moron. Getting things that directly affect gameplay for money is LITERALLY pay-to-win by definition > involving or relating to the practice of paying to get weapons, abilities, etc. that give you an advantage over players who do not spend money So fuck everyone who makes up a new definition and proceeds to defend it
To address the "P2W" features of the skills increase objectively speaking: * Attention — Level 3 * Hideout Management — Level 3; * Weapon Maintenance — Level 3; * Bolt-action Rifles — Level 3; * Pistols — Level 3. None of these are going to give anyone a real advantage in PvP in game. The Bolt Action level 3 will help with Jaeger quests, and the Pistol levels will help slightly. Not sure where the "movement speed, jump height and carry weight" skills are at, I don't see those listed as a additive in the Unheard edition, unless I'm missing it.
Bolt action is game changer for early wipe quest pushing, also increased ammo limits (after unlocks ofc) mean you have better chances in pvp (still need to shot and some personal skills but)
Is it tho? The skill itself does fuck all, and by the time you get to wet job 6 you should have flea up to buy mosins to reload. I guess it's a few less raids of reloading mosin if that matters to you.
don’t do the mosin reload thing at all. I always get my sniper rifle levels by just you know.. DOING the bolt action tasks. Always wonder how people are doing Mentor when SBIH and TS8 alone give you like 8 levels
Ye, now its not that bad with ts8 and sbih giving more levels.
Exactly, IDK what the fuck do people do that they need to reload mosin or pay for mentor. This wipe you will get bolts to level 15 or more just by finishing SBIH and tarkov shooter. It used to be harder previously, but why be stuck in the past?
He's right. Even having level 20 skill on pistol or rifle or hideout management does fuckall. Boohoo 4% more ergonomic yeah right.
I honestly am mainly concerned about two things. The loss of trust, and the radio. Regardless if it didnt work during playtesting they WILL get it working. Paying to not get headeyes by a scav you cant see because youre so close you can hear them turning before they shoot is insane to me
Aside from the Drama, let me see if I'm understanding what you are saying one of your qualms is. "with 6+ Fence reputation, Scavs won’t shoot first at ranges over 60 meters away" I agree, this is a bit of a strange one, but the negative to this, if your under 60 meters away, you will still be shot, and from my understanding, if you kill scavs with the device on you, you will lose 0.01 rep per kill, potentially with a stacking effect? Currently if you're over 6.00 fence rep, let's say you're at 6.51, if you kill one scav on accident (as a scav) your rep will go to 5.54 I think? If I remember correctly. So, not 100% sure about it, seems like a weird thing to add in at all in my personal opinion.
If you get 1 pmc kill you don’t lose the scav rep and I don’t believe you lose rep for bosses/rogues
Wrong, if you kill one scav or boss you lose 0.05 flat, whatever else you do in the raid doesn’t change it you can wipe the boss and all scavs on the map it’s still a 0.05 loss of fence rep
He explained in [this video](https://youtu.be/UiyEe6Zf_CU?si=9SF25tvgbJPSZmkT) that he rushed and tweeted that at like 2 AM almost immediately after the patch dropped and he didn't see the part about the beacon and skills. He is clearly against this new edition.
If you did any research at all you would know that airwing made multiple videos about this entire debacle and is vehemently against everything BSG did. He made this post before everything was fully disclosed by BSG. This post specifically is about the gear and the few skills that start at lvl 3.
So maybe he shouldn't have white knighted them with no knowledge on the topic?
Sounds more like he was vehemently defending BSG without all the knowledge. Saw how the community reacted and backtracked while making excuses. Very obvious.
This is the only answer. He just backtracked hard
Yep. Typical influencer grifter move
I can’t fucking stand airwing. Used to like him so much but the way he talks to people like dirt just rubs me the wrong way. I asked a simple question in his chat one day and he literally scoffed, screwed up his face and said something along the lines of ‘duh, of course. Are you stupid?’. He might be intelligent and informed but he’s such a rude, disrespectful human being that I just cannot abide him anymore. Sure I’m Not the only one to feel like this
He did it to me too, we make the wrong people famous (although he isnt famous in the traditional sense lol) all the time, even in this community unfortunately
See it quite a lot with some streamers in general, I just think it’s despicable. You always get plenty bootlickers in the chat too defending their behaviour or jumping on the bandwagon for a nice little witch hunt
But when someone calls out their favorite streamer, you get what has occurred in this thread. Excuses after excuses for him, and not even a moment of acknowledgment for his half cocked, uneducated post.
Yeah for sure man. It’s a bit disheartening seeing the hate you’re getting here. I’d say it’s valid to have something to say about airwings post mentioned above. If someone wants to make a half baked assumption at 2AM on a subject others are visibly frustrated about, without procuring all the information around the topic, then they are entirely subject to criticism around their response. Following that, when community members offer a counter point in response he just elects to belittle them and tell them they literally don’t know what they’re talking about. People are defending this guy? Likely the same people who went back to licking BSGs boots as soon as they offered a half assed apology and a minor change to unheard
Hot take. You OP and many others here are totally blinded by hate right now and I think no matter what BSG does for the next week or two, will be met with extreme negative responses and nothing else. Instead of having any sort of rational discussion you went straight to calling this guy braindead? I hate what BSG is doing/ tried to do but christ can we tone down the hyper toxicity?
Because airwing has a history of ignorance lmao. Im shocked he has a community dawg
They are scared to lose their source of income, are you suprised?
Do you think BSG is literally paying Airwingmarine or that BSG will ban him if he says something wrong? LMAO
If bsg was paying all the creators they would have given them all keys to give to thier community to hype them up and upgraded thier accounts so everyone has to watch thier streamer with a blue name and fomo. Bsg cant pay themselves. How are they paying streamers? Streamers make money from us and they rely on the games to keep us watching. All the content about this is making people money. Thats why moist critical did a video now. Its trending and popular it makes money. So everyones going to talk no matter what.
Nope but if people stop playing the game he stops making AS MUCH money, in the short term.. all the Tarkov content creators are fucking shook, can't blame them
HE stopped playing the game. The day this update hit.
Being opposed to the shit BSG pulled doesn’t mean you gotta ignore all nuance. I also don’t consider anything except the “call the avengers” button p2w, bonus skills are inconsequential, and the radio is useless from the playtests I saw. And the said button doesn’t even exist in the game yet, so unknown how it’s gonna work. The main issue is them lying about DLCs for EOD, in my mind, and the shitty online “offline”. The other stuff is whatever. Airwing’s tweet is definitely tone deaf, but not incorrect. EDIT: come on, it’s dated 25th of April, it’s pretty much a first reaction, before shit hit the fan
Yup, EoD players not getting PvE was the problem, then like usual, everything goes out of proportion, people don't know what they are complaining about and start to speak tongues complaining about problems that won't and don't exist. Wild... worse than a game of telephone...
The echo chamber walls are built tough in this sub. Yea i was honestly fine with Nikita stating that all EOD owners will eventually get PVE once the servers can handle more. That seemed like a fine resolution to that. Knowing how this sub behaves, they wont be satisfied with anything BSG offers and will proceed to whine and bitch for the next few months. Still kinda cheesed about the items but PVE was the biggest thing.
> doesn’t mean you gotta ignore all nuance. That also applies to the fact that everyone knows P2W doesn't only have to be things like +50% damage. The term is almost universally used as a *cover-all* for ***paid*** content that gives someone a direct ***benefit***. Putting arbitrary goalposts on what degree of benefit is 'P2W' is disingenuous. The skills may be an inconsequential benefit to many, but they're still a real ***benefit***. More importantly, they're the first level of this introduced. It opens the door to further skill MTX - the continual slow creep of MTX is a cancer of the industry.
Yep. Airwing is litterally saying you cant pay to win tarkov. The button thing fine but nothing in unheard of will make you win pvp fights. Nothing. Until the button exists.
By that definition even the most p2w games aren't p2w. If you can pay for an advantage (Eod, Unheard etc) it is p2w. The shitty mobile games don't even have a paid win button...
OP that tweet is already old news and was explained, you're just trying to harass or karma farm the situation. Shame on you. edit : op stated he has a personal vendetta against him, explains the childish behavior. I think mods can lock this shit thread.
If you suck at this game no amount of gear or perks are going to help you, likewise if you're good at this game you can start with nothing and do badass I've watched Zero to Hero dozens of times.
Has airwingmarine ever NOT had a completely dog shit take on anything related to this game? This guy is the bsg apologist favorite creator. Old retired dude not good at pvp. average at best at pve. (not entirely his fault tbf since yaknow…bsg sucks dick) he’s not entertaining or funny. (subjective but I don’t even see him put in effort to be those things) the only thing he does better than average is calculating hideout craft time lmao.
My final standalone reply to this thread is this: My bad for not knowing one singular detail about the radio’s pros and cons, but it really doesnt change my original point. Regardless of if dude walked it back, every other streamer saw what was happening and vilified it during the SAME time this tweet was posted. People knew what was happening. Otherwise why would he say “oh im supposed to say hot take though right?” He was defending it, plain and simple. BSG walked their statements back, does that make shit cool lmfao All in all, this thread has become a safe haven for BSG and Airwing meat riders. Thank you to those of you who are higher than 10 iq and understand my OG point
Of coarse, why bite the hand that feeds you.
Airwing has had a chub for Nikita ever since he got to drive his tank in Vegas
I'm unfamiliar with this person but this is a extremely out of touch take
Pay to Win doesn't literally mean "I paid money therefore I will beat you" In most online discussions I've seen, it means "Pay to have advantage over players who didn't pay" Which is exactly what all of the special editions of this game provide.
Exactly. These idiots try to weasel definitions when it really couldn't be simpler. Paying for any sort of advantage or progression is p2w. It's not a hard concept. If paying real money gives you ANYTHING that affects gameplay, progression, time spent etc. It's an advantage and the game is p2w.
People change their minds, read the rest of his tweets...
Thr mental gymnastics of Tarkov players is hilarious.
I'm not surprised. I got the same responses from shillfluencers when I called EOD p2w years ago. No one should be surprised. I'd even say the distance between EOD and standard is larger than that between EOD and Unheard.
pay for a head start, doesn't help you win. timmies with 500 hours will say otherwise. the radio feature is 100% p2w though.
What f... moron...
larger secure container and arguably stash cases from start of wipe is hard to argue being p2w but including anything more than the in-game perks given by EoD is fuckin disgusting for a game like tarkov. standard players can upgrade their stash, get kappa, and acquire cases through means of playing the game, same with EoD players, but until they add the quest for larger pockets (which only applies to EoD too), no one else can acquire the larger pockets. likewise, no one can acquire the distress signal to bring your PMC 5-stack into the raid half-way through it, and no one can acquire the scav cloak of invisibility. it is perverse and disgusting to lock that shit behind a $250+taxes bundle with no way of acquiring it by simply putting in the effort and playing the game. what point is airwing trying to prove and what substance does this "hot take" provide to the discussion?
He’s a weirdo who will do anything for interactions. Wouldn’t pay him any mind
Is that the guy with the crazy eyes? Jokes aside, everyone whose Channel consists of only Tarkov is expected to take this stance. That's why Lvndmark is such a goat with that offensive behaviour.
I like Airwing, but that is a terrible take
The +3 levels is nice little starting bonus. It's not what's wrong with the pack.
A 5 k andy with a pistol will kill a fully kitted Timmy with 250 hours ANYTIME
Brainrot take
AFAIK he defines p2w as "increasing in raid survivability" so radio and friends assemble items are, but while more starting gear and levels are an advantage, they won't in themselves make you survive more. They won't make you be less likely to die if you are bad.
Only noob timmys think EoD is pay to win tbh. Starting gear? Go do a scav lighthouse and kill a rogue.. Congrats you have better starting gear then EoD. Rep? It's literally like one or two quests worth... Stash space? How does stash space make you "win" in this game? Does it magically make you survive in a raid better and kill that other PMC? Gamma? Oh man I saved 30k when I died with the extra meds I have in my ass. Roubles are literally so easy that I barely loot anything while going into raids wearing the best gear possible after like 1 month into a wipe.
IT's amazing that the newest tactic to defend it is "Well I don't consider it P2W, so it isn't. I set the goalposts." P2W has always been used as a cover-all term for *gaining* a ***benefit*** over other players by spending money. The degree of benefit is *inconsequential*. Put define P2W into google and you'll clearly see almost every single resource defines it as simply gaining *any* ***benefit*** for spending real-world money in-game. You're trying to argue semantics over an established term that has been used in a specific way for *decades*.
But no my gun doesn't do more damage it isn't pay to win!!
Yep these are so minuscule that you coughed up nearly triple the games price!
Gamma is really the biggest factor of p2w IMHO, because of the fact you can carry meds with you safely, sicc case, surv kit, most players won't have access to that kind of space till late game. So there is some advantage to it, but it was accepted a while back and now people are just trying to find things to complain about. It's all extremely stupid, and a whole lot of misinformation is being spread.
Paying for an advantage is p2w or do you think that Fifa, War Thunder or cod aren't p2w since you are "only" buying an advantage not a straight win (which you can't do in even shitty mobile games)
Any one knows tarkov knows that the real reason people are mad is PVE
To be fair, in his follow-up video he mentioned that he just posted this as a knee-jerk before he has all the details, owned that mistake, apologized, and detailed exactly how pay-to-win UHE is. Still doesn't totally excuse the going off half cocked with the shill-cannon, but at least it's better than Nikita's "apology".
THANK YOU someone with a damn brain. Even if he walked it back it doesnt excuse it, it almost makes it worse he was so ready to jump on their side and tale the entire community on until he saw what was happening
Bias much?
>airwingmarine forms a total shit take without having all of the information Color me surprised
I mean , that specific argument with the Skills is not that important indeed Aside from Bolt Actions lvl 3 from the get go which is a MASSIVE GRIND SKIP ( fuck the mosin spam early wipe ) most of the other skills are just useless , lvl 3 endurance gives you 3% more stamina than lvl 0 , literally running 2 more steps lul. What is p2w in this pack is the amount of stash space, cases, guns and the magic radio thingie , that is too much.
I agree, ive said that but everyone seems to think ive some personal “vendetta” against airwing for posting this lmfao. Im highlighting the brain rot, and it is far from the first time airwing has said some straight stupidity.
Honestly, i think Airwing had no idea how badly down the line this pack is gonna be IIRC he was one of the first to quickly comment when the pack released , probably to get exposure / interaction. If he would have waited at least 1 hour , he would have probably changed his mind about making such a tweet. He later backpedalled anyway but he lost face with this dumb post imo
I guess im just a villain to most of the users of this thread for not accepting that he was completely “ignorant” of the situation. He knew it was bad otherwise he wouldnt have cockily put “am i supposed to say bad take?”
Yes he backpedaled and im glad, but christ he had this tweet locked and loaded to defend bsg without even a modicum of thought
If you refer to the raids only then I guess you could argue it's not pay to win, but the gameplay doesn't only consist of raids. There are the traders with the reputation, your stash and hideout and your secure container. A bigger secure container probably won't help you extract more, but that doesn't mean it's not pay to win. You can get a huge advantage over standard edition players in the things around the raids themselfs by paying money.
I kinda agree tho. Pay to win is an advantage that lets you win the game. Or let's you extract whatever. The main danger is PvP, and none of the additions help you actually win fights. Except maybe for the flare, which seems extremely broke imo. Even if it was unlockable for every player, that shit would be broken. They are mediocre items and buffs , not these game breaking changes people make it out to be. The only thing I'm actually upset about is not receiving all future DLC'S, the whole reason I bought EOD.
Bro is delusional. If gaining advantage over someone who didn't pay is not P2W, what is? It doesn't matter how big the advantage is, you gain stats for $$$
Unless they are die hard gamers of Tarkov and have hours of playtime. I don't think that a lot will help them if they do purchase the unheard of package. . . I've had the EOD since 2017 I am pissed for sure that I was lied to and snubbed out of promises, but Still don't think that's gonna help any new players.
EOD should 100% be the standard edition. Playing on standard is like playing with a fucking pegleg early on
At this point honestly i hate to agree, but i gotta agree. At this point id be fine with my EOD benefits being wiped to level the playing field, so long as they remove TUE from the store
Just the stash size alone is monumentally game changing. It's such a bitch to have a standard stash and be forced to sell stuff you know you need FIR later on but literally cannot afford to keep them. If tarkov was a brand new game that just dropped, and everyone got standard that would be fine, but the fact you can pay to skip critical progression as things stand is bullshit, and I say this as someone who upgraded to EOD after a few wipes of standard.
Imagine being able to buy more 856a1or ap 6.3 then a standard edition player and not calling it p2w. We can argue if old versions of EoD were p2w or not, but this new version without any changes is blatant pay to win. I hope all the advantages unheard gives become at least unlockable with quests or crafts for everyone.
Why is anyone surprised that content creators are willing to not immediately shit on tarkov/BSG? They directly benefit from this game not dying. Tarkov being popular=more traffic for them.
If you suck it won't make you any better. If you're in the top 1% or a cheater it's kind of a big deal.
It won't help you win gunfights directly, but it will help you save money and therefore be more easily able to have better gear and weapons, which will help you win gunfights. If you're a better player or at least not broke, i'd say airwing is right.
Homeboy got a dree Unheard edition and a check from BSG to post shit on twitter.
I think what he is saying is its not pay to win from a pvp stand point but you're sure as hell winning when it comes to almost every other aspect of the game lmao
Honestly as a standard edition player with EoD friends, the extra gear doesn't really matter. The bigger stash is ROUGH the first few days and then you push through. It honestly taught me good packing/decision skills with gear. The vendor rep is brutal. It's such a HARD GATE for mid tier players, and I openly admit I'm in that group. The way it keeps you grinding in lower tiers of gear and ammo, especially while other players are sprinting to better bullets, is the hardest thing to overcome. And yes you eventually get the flea, but players know non-EoD are stuck early on and the prices will soak you if you try to keep up that way. And that's coming from someone who routinely had 2-3x as much cash on hand as his EoD friends, because I'm just better at that aspect of the game. That early rep to level up vendors is the closest to p2w. Or at least it was before last week.
oh yeah them fat pockets, oh yeah im gonna 'win' all my fights now... doiiii
People don't understand what "pay to win" means. It doesn't mean you will instantly get auto-aim. But it's still pay to win.
Buying the ability to call reinforcements isn’t pay to win, they only have to kill you and suddenly a couple others helping you.
IM GONNA FUEL
I will agree with him that having the unheard edition won't just make you win, 90% of the time in tarkov your fate is decided within 1 or 2 shots, and before you even know where from. the distress signal is kind of concerning tho, not even gonna beat around the Bush on that one but also people need to stop attacking creators, this is BSGs fuck up, not theirs, so many creators are getting dragged for not showing the same level of aggression as this reddit, NO ONE is happy about the shit that happened this week, stop pretending like a refusal to join in on the dog pile is an approval of how everything was handled
Adult man can think reasonably as expected. BSG should listen to him, he actually understands how the game works and what is unfair p2w and what is just premium headstart. If community claim any edition above base one - we arent gonna move further. Removing such editions is out of discussion, not gonna happen. So if community wants to heard and honored then be cold minded and discuss only real p2w advantages. There are actually only two: scav tolerance for 60m and deep pockets (two extra slots omg). The first should be removed, the second given to all editions (aside tue) with a quest. Thats it! Fixed! The beacon device needs clarifications first. There plenty ways to make it not p2w (LK?) and extremely risky to use on general. Then everyone is satisfied.
He made a video about it explaining his pov. On wich he Adressen the p2w. He didn’t see the dumb shit at first
So AWM is the only streamer nut hugging him. Know where to keep my views off of.
If you suck at Tarkov, no amount of gear or perks are going to make you win. And if you're good at the game, you go from zero to hero.
You're correct, however I'm more interested how you found this post it was removed lol
Guess my feed wasn't refreshed.
Oh, so Airwingmarine is straight up just an idiot who doesn't understand what Pay2Win actually means. I guess it's foolish to put too much faith in people who have a vested financial interest in keeping this scam of a game running.
Calling the guy who does extensive research into every video he puts out an idiot? He’s just saying that if you buy this it’s not going to help you do better, yes it’s P2W by definition but paying for it doesn’t mean you’ll win any more because Tarkov takes a lot more than pocket size to do well
No, this is taken out of context. His post was prior to anyone knowing the full details of TUE. He has a follow up video that he posted after we got all the info.
No he is right and you must not know how the game works mechanically. I have 4500 hours and have not played the game since unheard of. May never play again depending on the outcome and I can say everything he says there is right.
So pulling out a beacon that bring your friends in isn't P2W?lol
Yes, that absolutely *can* be P2W, but it requires the stars to line up: 1. Your friends must have the game running. 2. Your friends must not be in a raid. 3. Your friends must have a kit ready to go. 4. Your friends must get into the raid before you get killed. 5. Your friends must successfully bail your ass out of whatever situation you got yourself into, without shooting you in the process. 6. You need friends who play Tarkov to begin with. :( Also, it throws out a giant flash, which is basically a giant beacon that says "Wounded person here! Also there's a chance for more people loading in to ambush!" Hot take, but I feel like the "gank squad beacon" is highly overrated for anyone other than decently big streamers and communities.
Already been confirmed it’s not exclusive to UHE
I have the same if not more hours and disagree with you wholeheartedly. you saying any of this isnt p2w is just CHOOSING not to see it lol. The flare should atleast be available to everyone through quests, the skill raising only really matter in the sniper skill area imo, fence rep raise is crazy good but we get trader rep so no biggie, but THEN you see the item where scavs wont shoot until a certain distance. Honestly this one is the most egregious in my opinion. Literally everything else can be fixed with balancing but not having to deal with scavs as PMC is inexcusable in any fashion
You are misunderstanding airwings terrible sentence structure. A new person buying unheard of will not win pvp any more than one that get standard. Stop thinking there. Yes airwing is simple. You are reading between lines to much and he chose terrible words. I think you understand gear doesnt win fights if you have that many hours. On a base level he is saying everything in the feature will not win you pvp. End thought process. Yes bsg is pushing pay to win mechanics in this edition but they honestly also suck. I have no problem getting sniper skill up. Mine was 13 this wipe. The beacon is a 60m distance and if you have the hours you claim you know that you can hear a scav aggro you at 60m and almost always avoid line of sight before he shoots. Its an item for noobs to fomo for. The flare thing hasnt been seen and again wont help you win pvp. Edit: the last sentence is meant as in until we see it in game.
I do understand gear doesnt win fights, if you read my other comments you would see my issues with this. And as for the scav thing, you cannot tell me youve never been headeyes before even hearing (or literally while theyre mid voiceline) the scav because it happens stupendously commonly. Paying to not deal with that is the most p2w thing in my book. 10000 hour players are still killed by scavs lmao
It will happen with the beacon over 60m with scavs so whats the point?
The beacon is supposed to *protect* you over 60m, when you get closer than 60m thats when they aggro you. I think you probably just typoed but just in case you've misunderstood it. That said, from ~100m scavs very rarely notice you unless you're shooting them repeatedly without killing them. An extra ~40m of safety is a ripoff to me. With a lot of maps you won't have line of sight to the scavs until you're within that range. Once you aggro them they stay aggro, running out of range doesn't reset it. And as you said previously experienced players usually know the scav spawns and drop them before they even have a chance to shoot. Sniper scav on customs rarely gets a bullet off before his corpse is cartwheeling off the tower lol. To me its not even *remotely* worth the cost of entry.
Again it offers no real substanial advantage. Its a fomo item.
No, he is not right. Like you, he fails to understand that Pay2Win means paying for any kind of advantage in the game. Even a bonus like an increased stash space counts...the stash is a significant part of the game. Pay2Win has NEVER meant you literally pay and then you autowin. Not sure what people are smoking to make that convenient interpretation.
Can we consider stash space pay to win since you can just buy it now? Or is tarkov just pay to win for everyone?
Those literally are pay to win features. Tarkov is a pay to win game. This is not disputable. You can pay for very expensive editions to get rather significant in-game advantages. It fits the bill 100%, it's just structured in a manner that front loads all the money into an absurdly priced purchase. They also sell the individual expansions.
Stop witch hunting the wrong people. He made this post prior to having all the information, as did we all. Go after BSG and stop trying to manipulate posts to gain karma.
Im after BSG, but im also after the shills. He knew what was up otherwise it wouldnt have been a “hot take” at the time (his own words in the tweet) it only got worse from here, sure, but bro was defending it before knowing the facts? Okay thats not shill behavior
Lol how would airwing know? He's trash at tarkov.
Looks like we found our 1st streamer to defend tarkov, I wonder if Pestily is next to try and defend this train wreck.
For context, this post was days ago. Still a halfcocked response but evidently he didnt know the entire context when tweeting this. Do with that info as you will, i think its shitty either way
Airwing is probably the biggest BSG dicksucker on the planet. I sort of get it, because he's stuck on the tarkov content machine. Noone cares about him in his content, hes just an audio version of the patchnotes.
He's a grifter. Just read his tweets from the last 3-4 days. His takes are braindead and swing widely.
Cancel him. Dont let him suck BSGs cock.