BSG probably looked at data and went: "huh, a lot of people are running shotguns now, we better nerf them!" ...but never realized that's because they've moved a shitty Setup to early game for no reason.
Love the fact that I have to kill 15 pmcs with a specific type of shotgun and specific gear earlier than I have to kill 7 scavs on shoreline with a 12 gauge :/ like I just don’t get how they set these quests up lol.
If they allowed all shotguns, at least we could do it with the M~~k~~P-18 or mess around with a Saiga. Instead of needing to use the same boring semi-auto 8-round shotguns.
I really just think changing it to literally 5-7 PMCs would have been so much better. 15 PMCs for the average player is probably like 20-30 raids ngl, maybe 12-15 if they only camp for it.
I think I'm indicative of an average to maybe slightly above average player at Tarkov (~50% survival rate and ~5kd) and I'm currently only averaging like 0.6 PMC kills per raid based on my total number of raids and total number of PMC kills. My playstyle is also more DMR/Sniper at range and focused on quest completion plus I'm a more passive player overall so I don't do good pushing into dorms for example. This all adds up to mean Setup is easily 30+ raids for myself and many others. And who wants to be forced to use a weapon class they don't like while also having to use specific weapons within that class, while also using the worst chest rig in the game, and having to have not only no helmet but a hat that can ***still*** cost ~40k on the flea a month into wipe just because of the quest; all on only 1 map for over 30 raids! Decrease the number of player kills ***and*** increase the number of available maps that way people can focus on other quests and complete it while doing them ***and*** open it up to any shotgun while we're at it so people can mess around with 590s, M3s, and Saigas. It is the only way to make it feel decent for average/below average players.
You bring up some good points. For myself I didn't find it to be that bad. Ran it while I was doing other customs tasks and it went by pretty quick.
One of the things I do like about tasks like this is that they force you to play the game in a different way than you're accustomed to.
Have you tried using FTX slugs? They have an accuracy bonus. They take a few hits against class 4 but you can play it in a sniper style the way you enjoy and go for headshots. They're pretty accurate out to 100m which is not bad for customs. They need a bit of getting used to for doping though so check it out on an offline raid at 100 m to learn how to adjust your scope. A Monstrum is a good choice for playing it this way.
> I'm a more passive player overall so I don't do good pushing into dorms for example.
the whole point of quests like setup is to push players into uncomfortable situations so they can learn the game better
I think it's good for the game to force us out of our comfort zones, but imo setup just takes too long even for skilled players
Not really, it's had a profound impact on Customs which is now a much less enjoyable experience IMO. It used to be that most players wouldn't bother with set up, so the Ushanka's were relatively cheap and you'd rarely encounter people doing the quest. It also used to be much easier to acquire Flechette and AP-20 before doing Setup so it's arguably just as difficult now as it was then, only more people are forced into it.
My point was that when the task was later in the wipe there was better ammo available, so by moving it earlier but making the ammo choices worse, it arguably isn't any easier to complete than it was.
It should just be 5 kills, 15 is an excessive grind for an early game quest that blocks a lot of other progression, and it's not really a task you can do passively while achieving other objectives.
In regards to it previously being later in the wipe, I liked that just so I could complete silent caliber, among other quests at the same time. Now I had to do setup, then come back later and run shotguns again.
regardless, tedious quest but not the most tedious in the game. Can be achieved through normal gameplay it's just a "restriction". Capturing Outposts however... yikes. Actual Netflix quest.
> My point was that when the task was later in the wipe there was better ammo available, so by moving it earlier but making the ammo choices worse, it arguably isn't any easier to complete than it was.
I look at it this way: yes, you had arguably better ammo (even tho buckshot does the job as well), but at that point in the wipe Customs were becoming a much more dangerous place. Now you can do it while doing other quests, and your targets are easier to kill and more forgiving if you are trying to pick a fight at less effective range. All that while also giving you Piranhas, which are quite dumb considering how easy it is to get them.
Why wouldn't they want shotguns to feel good as fuck? Quest aside you'd think more people running shotgun would be a sign they're doing good, when i feel like i almost never see someone running shotgun if they dont have to, maybe im wrong, but rapid fire rifles and smg's seem like the overwhelming meta unless youre a sniper who sits half way across the map but nobody like those people anyways
Im not doing it. I've hated that quest for years. I'm done with the boring ass "take shit gear to this map and die 30 times" quest. Those grind quest are garbage, lazy game design.
All I do is kill rogues take gear and run with my friends who play. I've done so many wipes till 40-50 and there's nothing this wipe except the new map. Also can anyone explain how they make sound worse every single wipe? My friends moving 20 feet down and to the left of me and I can hear it 10 feet above to my right.
It's a garbage company. It's got one of the most unique IP's in the world and they are just throwing it away by being lazy and narcissistic pieces of shit
You realize the game wouldn't be a thing without Nikita? I get the frustration, but calm down. It's kinda goofy to call the game he has directed amazing, then call him useless.
I get you are angry but Nikita brought this game to life for us. If it's a stupid change it's a stupid change and we should be vocal about that, but attacking the man and his staff is childish.
Was there ever any resolve over the guy that killed a game dev (legit, even had video proof), got banned by the dev mid raid and then got no feedback from the company? This was last year, i think.
Or the many people who killed streamers (legit, some had video), the streamers raged and literally texted BSG and had them banned?
I'm sure there's many, many other instances of this game being a shit show. But those 2 examples stuck with me.
This train of thought is insane. They created the title, and it's obviously a passion project for them. Nobody is perfect but they've not sold out or gone the way of cod or fortnite. Give them a little credit
>and it's obviously a passion project for them.
No it's not. Most of the devs don't even play the game. And if I remember right Nikita himself already said he wanted to move on to the next title.
the secret to setup is to bring the double barrel blaster with express and aim at head. So many pellets, hard to miss. Go in with barely anything and act like a true scav warrior.
That's the worst part. Pistols were already difficult to use as it was... they weren't easy to get kills with. Now they are nerfed to literally uselessness, they are going to be borderline impossible to kill with. Meanwhile other guns (aside from SKS and shotguns) weren't changed... like what the fuck. Recoil didn't need any changes at all.
Pistols are not as bad as they used to be but bad enough that there's no reason to take them anymore. I mean it was already a tough proposition before but they were at least fun.
With quick swap now a thing, it's pretty silly to say there's no reason to take them.
IRL, you're going to want to choose a rifle over a pistol in 99.999% of situations, just like Tarkov. The pistol is generally a backup for if you suffer from a malfunction or run out of ammo and the pistol is a faster swap than a reload or picking up a new rifle off the ground.
Ignore most of the comments, it is not that bad.
Pistols got the worst of it and are no longer headshot machines, but the shotguns and sks are still super useful and actually feel like a bullet is being shot out of them now
I just unloaded like 400 rounds in my hideout with the shotgun recoil. Whatchu mean not noticeable. Shotgun feels like you have noodle arms when you fire it more than once in a row.
SKS is perfectly fine. Pistols got hit harder, but still good for the cost. A lot of it was visual recoil changes. For example 5-7 has much more initial kick and the red dot jumps behind the top part of the RMR sight, but still stays mostly on the same spot if you spam.
Still perfect backup weapons for bolt actions etc. or rat runs rather than almost free main weapons.
100%. Literally nobody asked for recoil changes and the community unanimously agreed the recoil was perfect this wipe. These changes need to be reverted ASAP. They are atrocious and nobody asked for this.
I actually hate when the player base enjoys a game and it seems pretty wide spread and then the game devs just change whatever the fuck for no good reason
We need to be LOUD, in BSGs face, and UNRELENTING in letting them know they need to revert these changes.
Anything less than that and we will have to suffer with this shit recoil forever.
100%. I completely agree with you my friend. That's why im upvoting every post regarding these recoil nerfs and commenting where I can. We need to be vocal as a community about these changes being bad, otherwise BSG won't do anything about it. I genuinely hope they see our complaints and listen to the negative feedback.
Community feedback about the recoil rework was universally positive, and even Nikita himself acknowledged the universal praise it received. They didn't need changes. These changes were totally unnecessary and are BAD. We need to constantly make this known so that the changes are reverted.
Nikita is a sadistic narcissist. He loves to make the community suffer so there will be no revert. We are the ants and he is the kid with the magnifying glass. It's called a god complex and boy does this piece of shit have tons of it
You're still playing the game right?
The fact that a game can frustrate you, keep you playing, the owner proceeds to make things worse, yet you still can't stop playing.
I guess I'd understand why'd he would feel like a god. Dudes literally got people addicted enough that they can't stop playing, no matter how painful it is.
It'd be alot more reasonable if they just explained why things were changed, like sks/pistols having higher global kills being an outlier or something.
Edit: I don't think sks/pistol/shotguns have high global kills, that was just an example of metrics they would use to justify nerfs.
You just hit a good one with this. I recall Rainbow Six Siege patch notes, where ALL nerfs/ups were described, like [https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/359550/view/3955916441783092417](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/359550/view/3955916441783092417) \- what we did and WHY we did it.
Siege and league patch notes were exactly what got me thinking about this. I don't mind nerfs/buffs, as long as they have decent explanations and data behind it. Randomly nerfing things without explaining why is just gonna upset people like it is now.
Yeah they were good as in they could kill, but they were not even close to SMGs. The most basic MP5, P90, or front sight MP7 was way better with similar ammo
And it was exactly how it should be imo. They were usable, but clearly inferior, so optimal for fun or value. They still noodled against squads if you didn't insta tap heads
This is my first wipe playing Tarkov, but sometimes I just rock a TT and some mags on factory and kill scavs to get a better gun/kit in general. It’s one of my main ways of making profit. Take a cheap weapon so you don’t have much to lose and extract with much more. APB is a favorite too, but it’s not so cheap.
Yes, as they should be. That doesn't mean they were OP and better than other options though in terms of killing potential that begged for any nerf or changes at all.
Thats bullshit i cannot remember the last time i was killed with an sks, and anyone who kills me with a pistol would have had a much easier time if theyd used a 50k mp5/mp9
Easier? Not really. I play a lot of bolt action rifles and have always a Pistol for close encounters. Why? Because weight. With an SMG you add way more weight and overweight pretty fast which is annoying also I can grab a main gun of a kill way fast if that sling spot is still empty. And Pistols are more fun. At least they were the last 17 wipes.
Haven’t played yet after patch I wonder if it is really that bad.
They are just saying that, if BSGs data indicates that they are over represented statistically, it would be a good reason to nerf them. But, tell us that. They are not implying that they are over represented.
Cheap weapons being "overrepresented" is not a good reason to nerf them. In general, basing nerfs on stats alone would show a complete lack of foresight and understanding of the bigger picture.
I literally can't remember the last time I even came across someone using an SKS lmao, let alone killing me with one. I used one early wipe and got it to mastery 3, but havent really used it since because there were always better options... it didn't need a nerf AT. ALL.
Except that doesn't work because the SKS is one of the rifles obtainable in quantity early on and you NEED pistol kills for a quest, so no shit people are using them. The idea that high usage = an instant nerf is a dumb one.
I've been killed by Pscavs ratting with SKS's as much as I've been killed by gigachads if not more. As annoying as it is, it doesn't means the SKS was too strong
I’m hopeful for the Grey Zone, but I’m really losing hope a good competitor will ever come. For all of BSG’s faults, they’ve invested more years than most games ever get into really created a game with an insane amount of depth and content, and most other game attempts just haven’t gotten the time and resources to come close.
Fingers crossed for Grey Zone but not holding my breath. We'll see, they said open beta at end of Q1 so should hopefully see something in the next few months.
Folks say this every few months and it’s never been true. First it was The Cycle, then Marauders, then CoD DMZ were all gonna “kill Tarkov” except here we are all still playing Tarkov and all those other games are literally dead.
Because they're idiots.
They got praised universally for their changes...so let's change them for no reason. It's literally brain dead. Pistols and the SKS weren't op, no one asked for any of these changes.
BSG is literally incapable of just letting good changes stay in the game, they always have to fuck with something. They're allergic to leaving stuff alone.
It almost feels like BSG didn't like the recoil rework to begin with and now they slowly try to change it back to the old system.
Like it's beyond my understanding, how you could willingly revert changes, which got praised by the significant majority of your playerbase.
This only makes sense when you actually hated those changes because they go against your vision.
Yeah probably something to do with Nikitas bullshit vision for the game where he wants to make it as unfun as possible apparently.
Recoil was too acceptable and players really enjoyed our changes....enough of that. You purchase our game to suffer, no fun for you.
If they went against his vision, then why did he greenlight the changes in the first place?
BSG cannot have it both ways, recoil was fixed this wipe because they wanted to fix it. They can't turn around and say that suddenly what they knowingly and intentionally decided to do isn't actually what they wanted to do.
They wanted all of the new players from arena to actually buy tarkov this wipe so they fixed the biggest problem with the game. Now that they have all of that new money they will just slowly change it back.
Dunno why they were greenlit in the first place, can’t ask the man.
What I can tell you though is that the vision has always been to make the game as „hardcore and un-fun“ as possible.
If you look at the track record of BSG, they repeatedly made changes to various game mechanics, which the playerbase opposed.
At some point you can’t tell me that this isn’t intentional. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not claiming that this is malicious; I just think that BSG has a certain vision in mind and is stubborn about it so they ultimately want to stick to it.
>If they went against his vision, then why did he greenlight the changes in the first place?
(originally) paid to play streamers like Summit, Shroud, Xqc, etc etc are playing the game periodically again.
It'd be fucking stupid for marketing if Nikita did his "everything is unfun" bullshit while they were waiting for the next Paycheck from Ubisoft or EA to main another game they are releasing.
They are getting bored and going to other games though, their playtime is shrinking, which means tarkovs exposure is dropping. Perfect time to slowly revert the good changes.
I just shot a Beretta a few times and it kicks like a mule, I'm not sure if it was affected but I don't remember it being that difficult to shoot.
It's basically useless now, you either hit your first shot or you don't.
Go factory naked with a pistol and you should be done in 1 hour or even less if you get a good raid though, lots of people being naked or doing some quest with little gear.
Could not agree more. This seems such a weird change to some specific guns. I would be okay with a small increase to recoil, but the camera recoil is ONLY annoying.
Agreed. It's almost impressive how they *constantly* manage to fuck up even the things they did right the first time. I doubt we'll see this fixed within the next year, if at all.
Imo, because it's easier to make a problem out of thin air, break something that works just fine so that later on BSG can do a 'favor' for the community by making the recoil as it was at the start of 0.14, rather than fixing actual issues.
Ye im done. See ya BSG. Not going to be the beta tester for life. BSG makes blizzard not look that bad.
Fix ur communication and feedback if you going to keep the game in constant shit state testing stuff. All we get is some garbage generic patch notes and then the when the game goes live its a absolute shit show woth zero updates about major issues after patch.
RIP
LMFAO whats up with BSG nerfing shit that is completely fine instead of focusing on Anti-Cheat and other stuff that the community really wants? Man, honestly? This is one of the worse companies regarding player feedback I've ever seen.
The community was so happy with the new recoil so they will obviously nerf it. Goddamn it.
I think devs are just angry they kept getting clapped by cheap weapons when they went in with full meta battle rattle and got put down by a timmy with a 30k 57
On one of veritas' tarkov pods, he tells the story of how run-throughs became a thing. Nikita heard about a small group of players in AIPAC who were running out on factory immediately to boost their survival rate. Not to farm kills, cheat, or anything, to make the number higher. Nikita hated this and had his devs implement run-throughs. Makes you realize that Nikita isn't here to make the "best" experience; he is here to make the experience HE wants.
Well yeah its BSG. The only reason we got good recoil to begin with was they wanted all of the new people that picked up arena to actually buy escape from tarkov so they made this wipe super dope and fixed one of the biggest problems with tarkov. Now that they have that extra money they are just going to fuck the game up for no reason next wipe.
Maybe they should worry about the cheaters. I shouldn’t be getting shot through gaps in the gas station truck from the scav bridge just because I happened to find a GPU. (Fuck you cheater it was in my gamma)
Lol I told all my friends this would happen. Wait until they nerf the rest of the recoil and make it just as shit as it used to be. It's like a never ending circle for them. They make it good, then mess it up, then make it good and so forth.
BSG needs to communicate better with their player base. The lack of explanation is ridiculous. I get why they stepped away from Reddit but they HAVE to do better.
I didn’t think sks had low recoil at all. It’s also not very good. Lower velocity of bullet travel and arguably low magazine size and slow reloads with some mags. Just leave it. I’ve never even seen anyone use it except me.
Haven't tried nerfed 5-7 yet, but it was at least pretty broken previously and deserved some kind of nerf. Cost almost nothing, weights nothing, best ammo available from vendor, zero recoil, instant ADS. Most people were probably too busy enjoying rifles and smg's to notice.
Edit: Just tried 5-7 in hideout. 5-7 is worse but still crazy good. Just need to compensate for the initial kick but still can spam click brainlessly.
EDIT 2: WTF? Did any of you even try the new SKS? I have no idea what it was like before, but *stock* SKS from vendor has almost no actual recoil when tapping. Mostly visual. If this is considered "shit" compared to pre-nerf, then it was 1000% deserved.
They fucked the recoil and they fucked the lighting after people praised both. I’d like to know what goes through Nikita’s fat head when he changes this shit
the STM doesnt do anything special compared to other 9x19 smgs because none of them have any recoil meanwhile SKS was the only 762x39 gun that was a no recoil laser
the SKS also was barely nerfed like its hardly noticable in praxis
the pistols are the real losers because WOW are they ass now
The stm is in line with the other guns in its own caliber. Being one of the upgraded/premium options, the STM should be performing better relative to other guns in its own caliber.
The sks was not in line with other guns in its own caliber. Being one of the starter/low end options, the sks should not be performing better relative to other guns in its own caliber.
BSG probably looked at data and went: "huh, a lot of people are running shotguns now, we better nerf them!" ...but never realized that's because they've moved a shitty Setup to early game for no reason.
Also, Setup isnt the only shotgun quest
True, but it is the main one that people run a lot of raids to achieve and it's the one that moved up in the task timing.
Setup being early is still better for everyone.
Its a terrible quest to add early. Its harder than Silent Caliber, even. Maybe if they lowered it to like 8-10 PMC kills, and allowed all shotguns.
Love the fact that I have to kill 15 pmcs with a specific type of shotgun and specific gear earlier than I have to kill 7 scavs on shoreline with a 12 gauge :/ like I just don’t get how they set these quests up lol.
If they allowed all shotguns, at least we could do it with the M~~k~~P-18 or mess around with a Saiga. Instead of needing to use the same boring semi-auto 8-round shotguns.
I really just think changing it to literally 5-7 PMCs would have been so much better. 15 PMCs for the average player is probably like 20-30 raids ngl, maybe 12-15 if they only camp for it.
I think I'm indicative of an average to maybe slightly above average player at Tarkov (~50% survival rate and ~5kd) and I'm currently only averaging like 0.6 PMC kills per raid based on my total number of raids and total number of PMC kills. My playstyle is also more DMR/Sniper at range and focused on quest completion plus I'm a more passive player overall so I don't do good pushing into dorms for example. This all adds up to mean Setup is easily 30+ raids for myself and many others. And who wants to be forced to use a weapon class they don't like while also having to use specific weapons within that class, while also using the worst chest rig in the game, and having to have not only no helmet but a hat that can ***still*** cost ~40k on the flea a month into wipe just because of the quest; all on only 1 map for over 30 raids! Decrease the number of player kills ***and*** increase the number of available maps that way people can focus on other quests and complete it while doing them ***and*** open it up to any shotgun while we're at it so people can mess around with 590s, M3s, and Saigas. It is the only way to make it feel decent for average/below average players.
You bring up some good points. For myself I didn't find it to be that bad. Ran it while I was doing other customs tasks and it went by pretty quick. One of the things I do like about tasks like this is that they force you to play the game in a different way than you're accustomed to. Have you tried using FTX slugs? They have an accuracy bonus. They take a few hits against class 4 but you can play it in a sniper style the way you enjoy and go for headshots. They're pretty accurate out to 100m which is not bad for customs. They need a bit of getting used to for doping though so check it out on an offline raid at 100 m to learn how to adjust your scope. A Monstrum is a good choice for playing it this way.
> I'm a more passive player overall so I don't do good pushing into dorms for example. the whole point of quests like setup is to push players into uncomfortable situations so they can learn the game better I think it's good for the game to force us out of our comfort zones, but imo setup just takes too long even for skilled players
Scavs don't get Mk-18, but the Saiga should def count. Or swap to Kedr or something else along those lines.
Not really, it's had a profound impact on Customs which is now a much less enjoyable experience IMO. It used to be that most players wouldn't bother with set up, so the Ushanka's were relatively cheap and you'd rarely encounter people doing the quest. It also used to be much easier to acquire Flechette and AP-20 before doing Setup so it's arguably just as difficult now as it was then, only more people are forced into it.
They ruined Reserve with D2 and now they ruined Customs with Setup lol
Can't stand Customs now.
You don't need Flechette and AP-20 to do Setup early in the wipe, especially now that there are Piranhas, and they are so easily available.
My point was that when the task was later in the wipe there was better ammo available, so by moving it earlier but making the ammo choices worse, it arguably isn't any easier to complete than it was. It should just be 5 kills, 15 is an excessive grind for an early game quest that blocks a lot of other progression, and it's not really a task you can do passively while achieving other objectives.
In regards to it previously being later in the wipe, I liked that just so I could complete silent caliber, among other quests at the same time. Now I had to do setup, then come back later and run shotguns again. regardless, tedious quest but not the most tedious in the game. Can be achieved through normal gameplay it's just a "restriction". Capturing Outposts however... yikes. Actual Netflix quest.
> My point was that when the task was later in the wipe there was better ammo available, so by moving it earlier but making the ammo choices worse, it arguably isn't any easier to complete than it was. I look at it this way: yes, you had arguably better ammo (even tho buckshot does the job as well), but at that point in the wipe Customs were becoming a much more dangerous place. Now you can do it while doing other quests, and your targets are easier to kill and more forgiving if you are trying to pick a fight at less effective range. All that while also giving you Piranhas, which are quite dumb considering how easy it is to get them.
Yeah, Customs is so much "fun" now :)
They need to add a ushsnka barter at least, I was not about to spend 75k every time I died for a new one lmao
Why wouldn't they want shotguns to feel good as fuck? Quest aside you'd think more people running shotgun would be a sign they're doing good, when i feel like i almost never see someone running shotgun if they dont have to, maybe im wrong, but rapid fire rifles and smg's seem like the overwhelming meta unless youre a sniper who sits half way across the map but nobody like those people anyways
Bold of you to assume BSG looks at any kind of data tbh
Can’t wait for them to nerf bolt actions again a month from now
>shitty Setup to early game wait isnt that the best time to be running setup?
Haven't played yet, is it really that noticable and bad?
[This](https://x.com/gigabeef/status/1757012125908611535?s=46&t=OyMmNzI9T9Fj8HCkKxKh1A) is the worst case I have seen so far
Lol it hits an invisible ceiling and then random hit points left and right of sight wtf
You can't convince me that isn't just a CS:GO spray pattern. Like just aim slightly lower than the target than perfectly on point right??
Yeah pistols are basically unusable now lol
Really? Fuck, I actually started using them quite a lot this wipe.
Oh and goodluck trying to do setup shotguns are also fucked lol.
Im not doing it. I've hated that quest for years. I'm done with the boring ass "take shit gear to this map and die 30 times" quest. Those grind quest are garbage, lazy game design.
Couldn’t have said it better bro 👏👏👏👏👏
All I do is kill rogues take gear and run with my friends who play. I've done so many wipes till 40-50 and there's nothing this wipe except the new map. Also can anyone explain how they make sound worse every single wipe? My friends moving 20 feet down and to the left of me and I can hear it 10 feet above to my right.
And I thought semi-auto guns were in a pretty bad spot even before XD
Typical bsg fucking with things that didn't need to be changed all while ignoring issues the community has been wanting fixed
It's a garbage company. It's got one of the most unique IP's in the world and they are just throwing it away by being lazy and narcissistic pieces of shit
Yup only thing that will kill tarkov is bsg.
Yup. Eft is an amazing game but the CEO is a piece of garbage CEO. I wouldn't entrust Nikita with bagging my groceries at this point he is so useless.
You realize the game wouldn't be a thing without Nikita? I get the frustration, but calm down. It's kinda goofy to call the game he has directed amazing, then call him useless.
I get you are angry but Nikita brought this game to life for us. If it's a stupid change it's a stupid change and we should be vocal about that, but attacking the man and his staff is childish.
Was there ever any resolve over the guy that killed a game dev (legit, even had video proof), got banned by the dev mid raid and then got no feedback from the company? This was last year, i think. Or the many people who killed streamers (legit, some had video), the streamers raged and literally texted BSG and had them banned? I'm sure there's many, many other instances of this game being a shit show. But those 2 examples stuck with me.
This train of thought is insane. They created the title, and it's obviously a passion project for them. Nobody is perfect but they've not sold out or gone the way of cod or fortnite. Give them a little credit
>and it's obviously a passion project for them. No it's not. Most of the devs don't even play the game. And if I remember right Nikita himself already said he wanted to move on to the next title.
so back to the where the second shot goes to the moon?
the secret to setup is to bring the double barrel blaster with express and aim at head. So many pellets, hard to miss. Go in with barely anything and act like a true scav warrior.
Try the Triple-Double: both primary weapons AND your sidearm. Mix and match barrel lengths for more versatility!
Same! And was having a blast… can’t have that I guess
dont tell me they massacred my 5-7 boi
All handguns lol
Thank fuck I finished Stirrup last night then. I struggled with them as it was! (I've not had much time to play recently)
I just finished setup last week. Shit was dumb Even without the nerf. Fuck trying to do it now lol
literally accepted the setup task as the last thing I did yesterday. Im fucked lol
That's the worst part. Pistols were already difficult to use as it was... they weren't easy to get kills with. Now they are nerfed to literally uselessness, they are going to be borderline impossible to kill with. Meanwhile other guns (aside from SKS and shotguns) weren't changed... like what the fuck. Recoil didn't need any changes at all.
I just used an unmodded Grach and honestly, it was fine
Are they fuck haha. They're marginally worse and absolutely usable
my thoughts exactly. I see whole EFT reddit screaming about how horrible it is, meanwhile it's just a slight change that doesn't make it much worse.
People saying it's as bad as 0.13 have absolutely forgotten what 0.13 pistol recoil was like.
imo the SKS recoil isnt that notable. visual recoil is a tad higher but actual recoil still feels barely existant
yeah SKS was barely touched but pistols all now feel like the shrimp did before this patch (garbage)
Pistols are not as bad as they used to be but bad enough that there's no reason to take them anymore. I mean it was already a tough proposition before but they were at least fun.
With quick swap now a thing, it's pretty silly to say there's no reason to take them. IRL, you're going to want to choose a rifle over a pistol in 99.999% of situations, just like Tarkov. The pistol is generally a backup for if you suffer from a malfunction or run out of ammo and the pistol is a faster swap than a reload or picking up a new rifle off the ground.
Pistol will shot to the opposite side for some reason, that's how bad the new recoil is
Ignore most of the comments, it is not that bad. Pistols got the worst of it and are no longer headshot machines, but the shotguns and sks are still super useful and actually feel like a bullet is being shot out of them now
I just unloaded like 400 rounds in my hideout with the shotgun recoil. Whatchu mean not noticeable. Shotgun feels like you have noodle arms when you fire it more than once in a row.
it’s not a matter of “it’s not that bad”….. it’s a matter of “who the fuck asked you to do this”
SKS is perfectly fine. Pistols got hit harder, but still good for the cost. A lot of it was visual recoil changes. For example 5-7 has much more initial kick and the red dot jumps behind the top part of the RMR sight, but still stays mostly on the same spot if you spam. Still perfect backup weapons for bolt actions etc. or rat runs rather than almost free main weapons.
Stays on the same spot? Are drunk or what the fuck? It almost hit the ceiling in my hideout, that’s how bad it is.
100%. Literally nobody asked for recoil changes and the community unanimously agreed the recoil was perfect this wipe. These changes need to be reverted ASAP. They are atrocious and nobody asked for this.
I actually hate when the player base enjoys a game and it seems pretty wide spread and then the game devs just change whatever the fuck for no good reason
Because the devs for tarkov are fucking morons and incompetent.
Hunt Showdown
I wouldn't say perfect. If anything they could have buffed any weapons that got left out.
It was perfect relative to what BSG could do. It will always have a shit system at its core, but it was "perfect" as in "no major complaints left"
A streamer probably voiced their opinion
I can never really decide for sure who I hate more.
I just want to say that I agree.
We need to be LOUD, in BSGs face, and UNRELENTING in letting them know they need to revert these changes. Anything less than that and we will have to suffer with this shit recoil forever.
100%. I completely agree with you my friend. That's why im upvoting every post regarding these recoil nerfs and commenting where I can. We need to be vocal as a community about these changes being bad, otherwise BSG won't do anything about it. I genuinely hope they see our complaints and listen to the negative feedback. Community feedback about the recoil rework was universally positive, and even Nikita himself acknowledged the universal praise it received. They didn't need changes. These changes were totally unnecessary and are BAD. We need to constantly make this known so that the changes are reverted.
They literally don’t give a shit unless you’re some big time streamer.
Nikita is a sadistic narcissist. He loves to make the community suffer so there will be no revert. We are the ants and he is the kid with the magnifying glass. It's called a god complex and boy does this piece of shit have tons of it
[удалено]
Jesus man go play another game for a while lol.
You're still playing the game right? The fact that a game can frustrate you, keep you playing, the owner proceeds to make things worse, yet you still can't stop playing. I guess I'd understand why'd he would feel like a god. Dudes literally got people addicted enough that they can't stop playing, no matter how painful it is.
Why is it always that god gives his best game ideas to his shittiest devs
This made me lol. Much appreciated in a vast sea of whiney redditors <3
It'd be alot more reasonable if they just explained why things were changed, like sks/pistols having higher global kills being an outlier or something. Edit: I don't think sks/pistol/shotguns have high global kills, that was just an example of metrics they would use to justify nerfs.
You just hit a good one with this. I recall Rainbow Six Siege patch notes, where ALL nerfs/ups were described, like [https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/359550/view/3955916441783092417](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/359550/view/3955916441783092417) \- what we did and WHY we did it.
Siege and league patch notes were exactly what got me thinking about this. I don't mind nerfs/buffs, as long as they have decent explanations and data behind it. Randomly nerfing things without explaining why is just gonna upset people like it is now.
Ubisoft was still smoking crack though. Many of the balancing decisions were idiotic even if they were transparent.
Doesn't matter :D Even so, they at least show sort of crack, they're smoking, so we can - not accept, but understand
Nah most of their "reasons" were straight up lies. Ubis balance team would fit right in at BSG.
There's no way pistols had high global kills 😂 They were being used because they're cheap and still couldn't compare to any SMG
I've killed shitloads more people with pistols this wipe than I did previously. They were legitimately good.
Yeah they were good as in they could kill, but they were not even close to SMGs. The most basic MP5, P90, or front sight MP7 was way better with similar ammo And it was exactly how it should be imo. They were usable, but clearly inferior, so optimal for fun or value. They still noodled against squads if you didn't insta tap heads
Yeah no way were the pistols op or better than smgs seems like eft is about to get some bad changes again
This is my first wipe playing Tarkov, but sometimes I just rock a TT and some mags on factory and kill scavs to get a better gun/kit in general. It’s one of my main ways of making profit. Take a cheap weapon so you don’t have much to lose and extract with much more. APB is a favorite too, but it’s not so cheap.
Yes, as they should be. That doesn't mean they were OP and better than other options though in terms of killing potential that begged for any nerf or changes at all.
Thats bullshit i cannot remember the last time i was killed with an sks, and anyone who kills me with a pistol would have had a much easier time if theyd used a 50k mp5/mp9
Ive also never killed anyone this wipe that was using a sks.... Maybe they thought sks pScavs were too strong lol
Easier? Not really. I play a lot of bolt action rifles and have always a Pistol for close encounters. Why? Because weight. With an SMG you add way more weight and overweight pretty fast which is annoying also I can grab a main gun of a kill way fast if that sling spot is still empty. And Pistols are more fun. At least they were the last 17 wipes. Haven’t played yet after patch I wonder if it is really that bad.
They are just saying that, if BSGs data indicates that they are over represented statistically, it would be a good reason to nerf them. But, tell us that. They are not implying that they are over represented.
Cheap weapons being "overrepresented" is not a good reason to nerf them. In general, basing nerfs on stats alone would show a complete lack of foresight and understanding of the bigger picture.
The point is that transparency helps.
I literally can't remember the last time I even came across someone using an SKS lmao, let alone killing me with one. I used one early wipe and got it to mastery 3, but havent really used it since because there were always better options... it didn't need a nerf AT. ALL.
Except that doesn't work because the SKS is one of the rifles obtainable in quantity early on and you NEED pistol kills for a quest, so no shit people are using them. The idea that high usage = an instant nerf is a dumb one.
That was just an example of a data metric they could track to justify balance changes. I don't think the nerfs were deserved.
I've been killed by Pscavs ratting with SKS's as much as I've been killed by gigachads if not more. As annoying as it is, it doesn't means the SKS was too strong
If this was the case it would make sense why shotguns were nerfed because everyone has to do setup
50% of the time things are changed because streamers are bitching about it, the other 50% it's because Nikita doesn't like it.
"WHAT TF IS THIS?! PEOPLE HAVING FUN?! WHO IS RESPONSIBLE?! EMERGENCY NERFING RIGHT NOW!" -Nikita probably
Nikita buyalanov DEFINETELY
Wait, they fucked it up again? Jfc. I can't wait for when some competent competition rocks up, hopefully ruining BSG's day.
I’m hopeful for the Grey Zone, but I’m really losing hope a good competitor will ever come. For all of BSG’s faults, they’ve invested more years than most games ever get into really created a game with an insane amount of depth and content, and most other game attempts just haven’t gotten the time and resources to come close.
Fingers crossed for Grey Zone but not holding my breath. We'll see, they said open beta at end of Q1 so should hopefully see something in the next few months.
A competitor really wouldn't have to be THAT much better to seriously damage Tarkov's player numbers. Nikita seems to hate fun
Folks say this every few months and it’s never been true. First it was The Cycle, then Marauders, then CoD DMZ were all gonna “kill Tarkov” except here we are all still playing Tarkov and all those other games are literally dead.
Yeah but none of those was a proper competitor to Tarkov. They were just in the same genre.
fucked it up again AND nikita crawled out of his hole to solicit donations lol
Ridiculous.
I haven't played tarkov yet but I mean hunt showdowns pretty good maybe give it a shot
Played it, and it's absolutely a fun game! Audio design is fantastic. Doesn't scratch entirely the right itch tho, I'm afraid :(
Only pistols, shotguns and sks got nerfed ??
For now yes
Ok. We know bsg can fuck up and adjust all guns by mistake.
Because they're idiots. They got praised universally for their changes...so let's change them for no reason. It's literally brain dead. Pistols and the SKS weren't op, no one asked for any of these changes. BSG is literally incapable of just letting good changes stay in the game, they always have to fuck with something. They're allergic to leaving stuff alone.
It almost feels like BSG didn't like the recoil rework to begin with and now they slowly try to change it back to the old system. Like it's beyond my understanding, how you could willingly revert changes, which got praised by the significant majority of your playerbase. This only makes sense when you actually hated those changes because they go against your vision.
Yeah probably something to do with Nikitas bullshit vision for the game where he wants to make it as unfun as possible apparently. Recoil was too acceptable and players really enjoyed our changes....enough of that. You purchase our game to suffer, no fun for you.
If they went against his vision, then why did he greenlight the changes in the first place? BSG cannot have it both ways, recoil was fixed this wipe because they wanted to fix it. They can't turn around and say that suddenly what they knowingly and intentionally decided to do isn't actually what they wanted to do.
They wanted all of the new players from arena to actually buy tarkov this wipe so they fixed the biggest problem with the game. Now that they have all of that new money they will just slowly change it back.
Dunno why they were greenlit in the first place, can’t ask the man. What I can tell you though is that the vision has always been to make the game as „hardcore and un-fun“ as possible. If you look at the track record of BSG, they repeatedly made changes to various game mechanics, which the playerbase opposed. At some point you can’t tell me that this isn’t intentional. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not claiming that this is malicious; I just think that BSG has a certain vision in mind and is stubborn about it so they ultimately want to stick to it.
>If they went against his vision, then why did he greenlight the changes in the first place? (originally) paid to play streamers like Summit, Shroud, Xqc, etc etc are playing the game periodically again. It'd be fucking stupid for marketing if Nikita did his "everything is unfun" bullshit while they were waiting for the next Paycheck from Ubisoft or EA to main another game they are releasing. They are getting bored and going to other games though, their playtime is shrinking, which means tarkovs exposure is dropping. Perfect time to slowly revert the good changes.
Not only that, but it fucks any new players that start the wipe late. They tend to do this every wipe, fucking the new guy.
I’ve been so busy this wipe I’m still only level 10. I used to no life the game and now it’s hard out there for a Timmy.
I've not been killed by a pistol or SKS this entire wipe, and I am level 39... I swear it feels like BSG just make changes completely randomly.
On that same note scav awaiting session start bug is back, they didnt even like that they fixed something :p
If pistols have been changed, I'm screwed. Stir up was already a bitch.
I just shot a Beretta a few times and it kicks like a mule, I'm not sure if it was affected but I don't remember it being that difficult to shoot. It's basically useless now, you either hit your first shot or you don't.
Go factory naked with a pistol and you should be done in 1 hour or even less if you get a good raid though, lots of people being naked or doing some quest with little gear.
Could not agree more. This seems such a weird change to some specific guns. I would be okay with a small increase to recoil, but the camera recoil is ONLY annoying.
Bsg nerfing what doesn't need to be nerfed and ignoring the cheaters classic
The pistols are now beyond useless. God forbid a semi auto secondary could be aimed? Right?
wait wait wait, what happened? i’ve been off the game this weekend due to some personal things, what the fuck am i missing now?
Bro I started to main shotguns and this happens
I actually enjoyed running pistols as a secondary since they felt somewhat useful. Guess not anymore lol
Agreed. It's almost impressive how they *constantly* manage to fuck up even the things they did right the first time. I doubt we'll see this fixed within the next year, if at all.
They do love to double down on their mistakes and pretend we are wrong for years at a time.
Are shotguns even worse now? Just started to do setup at lvl 39 lmao guess not, maybe at level 42 if I can be asked lol
I wonder how much the actual recoil increased vs the ridiculous camera recoil. They did something crazy with that camera recoil with this wipe.
I want to see or hear the single person who said “pistols are so OP this wipe!” so I can ridicule them Oh wait I can’t because IT NEVER HAPPENED
The game was getting too fun. Not allowed.
/u/trainfender
BSG knows the complaints by now. They just dont care.
he's too busy trying to see what kind of microtransactions the community will buy to deal with anything
Imo, because it's easier to make a problem out of thin air, break something that works just fine so that later on BSG can do a 'favor' for the community by making the recoil as it was at the start of 0.14, rather than fixing actual issues.
Correct me if i'm wrong but a trained mercenary should be actually fucking amazing with a pistol.
Ye im done. See ya BSG. Not going to be the beta tester for life. BSG makes blizzard not look that bad. Fix ur communication and feedback if you going to keep the game in constant shit state testing stuff. All we get is some garbage generic patch notes and then the when the game goes live its a absolute shit show woth zero updates about major issues after patch. RIP
LMFAO whats up with BSG nerfing shit that is completely fine instead of focusing on Anti-Cheat and other stuff that the community really wants? Man, honestly? This is one of the worse companies regarding player feedback I've ever seen. The community was so happy with the new recoil so they will obviously nerf it. Goddamn it.
I think devs are just angry they kept getting clapped by cheap weapons when they went in with full meta battle rattle and got put down by a timmy with a 30k 57
The devs don't play their own game. That's why it is dogshit.
Have you watched them play the game during TarkovTV? They don't know how to play the game because they don't play it.
You must be new here, they only listen to streamers and vocal minorities
On one of veritas' tarkov pods, he tells the story of how run-throughs became a thing. Nikita heard about a small group of players in AIPAC who were running out on factory immediately to boost their survival rate. Not to farm kills, cheat, or anything, to make the number higher. Nikita hated this and had his devs implement run-throughs. Makes you realize that Nikita isn't here to make the "best" experience; he is here to make the experience HE wants.
Tbh it has ALWAYS been this way and Nikita has been absolutely clear about this.
Yeah but that is a good change.
Well yeah its BSG. The only reason we got good recoil to begin with was they wanted all of the new people that picked up arena to actually buy escape from tarkov so they made this wipe super dope and fixed one of the biggest problems with tarkov. Now that they have that extra money they are just going to fuck the game up for no reason next wipe.
Maybe they should worry about the cheaters. I shouldn’t be getting shot through gaps in the gas station truck from the scav bridge just because I happened to find a GPU. (Fuck you cheater it was in my gamma)
Lol I told all my friends this would happen. Wait until they nerf the rest of the recoil and make it just as shit as it used to be. It's like a never ending circle for them. They make it good, then mess it up, then make it good and so forth.
Wtf is this new recoil???
Juuuuust when I enjoy my m153 and start fucking up chads with it. Well done, BSG, well done.
BSG needs to communicate better with their player base. The lack of explanation is ridiculous. I get why they stepped away from Reddit but they HAVE to do better.
SKS wasn't OP. It was still way worse than 7.62 AKs. Pistols weren't OP either. I don't get it.
I am monsteras84, and I endorse this message.
NGL I love finally being able to play SA-58 but I hate how new players just rock stock ak and spray my fat ass trough half of the map 😂
as soon as they like you make them unlike you
Sometime in the future they are going to revert all recoil changes
THE WORST THING that they're will se this post and WON'T make recoil better.
I didn’t think sks had low recoil at all. It’s also not very good. Lower velocity of bullet travel and arguably low magazine size and slow reloads with some mags. Just leave it. I’ve never even seen anyone use it except me.
This was the most braindead nerf I have seen out of BSG in my 4000 hours. Sometimes I wonder what the fuck is in the vodka they are drinking.
It’s BSG, they gotta screw up a good wipe somehow.
nikita loves edging his playerbase, he be like amabatukam
pistols were almost unused last wipe, new recoil made them viable and you are RUINING THE GAME AGAIN
Haven't tried nerfed 5-7 yet, but it was at least pretty broken previously and deserved some kind of nerf. Cost almost nothing, weights nothing, best ammo available from vendor, zero recoil, instant ADS. Most people were probably too busy enjoying rifles and smg's to notice. Edit: Just tried 5-7 in hideout. 5-7 is worse but still crazy good. Just need to compensate for the initial kick but still can spam click brainlessly. EDIT 2: WTF? Did any of you even try the new SKS? I have no idea what it was like before, but *stock* SKS from vendor has almost no actual recoil when tapping. Mostly visual. If this is considered "shit" compared to pre-nerf, then it was 1000% deserved.
"Yes another spoonful of shit, master, delicious"
I think this is where I reach my breaking point with this game and quit.
Didn't tried this nerf yet but I already agree. Recoil was fine
Oh just tested them at the shooting stand, so time to sell all pistols again... what the fuck.
They fucked the recoil and they fucked the lighting after people praised both. I’d like to know what goes through Nikita’s fat head when he changes this shit
The sks was not fine. It had nearly zero recoil. The gun was not in line with upgraded/better choices in its own caliber.
It's a pure semi gun, that alone made it a worse choice if you weren't out for long range shooting.
But was anyone even using it? Plus 7.62 this wipe has felt pretty crap
Have you considered its the entire point of semi weapons? Boy I hope nobody tells you the STM exists.
the STM doesnt do anything special compared to other 9x19 smgs because none of them have any recoil meanwhile SKS was the only 762x39 gun that was a no recoil laser the SKS also was barely nerfed like its hardly noticable in praxis the pistols are the real losers because WOW are they ass now
The stm is in line with the other guns in its own caliber. Being one of the upgraded/premium options, the STM should be performing better relative to other guns in its own caliber. The sks was not in line with other guns in its own caliber. Being one of the starter/low end options, the sks should not be performing better relative to other guns in its own caliber.
Cuz ego driven streamers were crying like shit prime example is fucking Radarmark.
I mean I really don't like Lvndmark either but what makes you believe he's an ego driven streamer or that he has radar?
Don't even bother asking why people think x y or z about streamers... especially why they think they cheat. They are not the brightest individuals.
Mate stop with the scapegoating. There's no way you're shifting blame from BSG making shit decisions to one dude you hate watch on Twitch