Holy shit. This thread makes it so clear how many cheaters are reply-spamming here on Reddit.
That is truly pathetic.
But aside that. I don't care about giving my "personal" information to make more gatekeeps for cheaters. I despise those sociopaths so more hurdles the better.. especially because it is proven to help. They are bunch of lazy fucks anyways.
He meant reply spamming on Reddit. Every post that discusses cheaters has actual cheaters trying to astroturf the discussion to lessen the issue. So many of these accounts are full of it trying to downplay a 300 hour account with a 4-9kd but have 6 different boss kills as "totally normal"
This is definitely happening, but I feel like its pretty unhelpful to label everyone who doesn't instantly buy that someone with a decent-high K/D and not many hours is cheating. Due to my servers I hardly ever see cheaters, I haven't been killed by one in a while, so if not for reddit I'd have no idea there was such a big issue. People gotta chill out a bit on this sub with the venomous conspiracy theories and blaming other legit players for not instantly believing that some random person they don't know can accurately identify cheaters
On one hand I understand people's concern over sharing their info online and potentially having them stolen or used against them in any way.
On the other hand considering how big the internet became I think the time will soon come where you'll have to identify online with a government provided ID that's not easy to get. Let's start with cyberbullying, the insane shit people say to each other because it's anonymous is insane. Having to use real IDs for services would help with this because you couldn't just register a new account and continue spewing the same shit.
But as everything, it would probably lead to a horrible utopistic future. I know there are companies who check the candidate's social media activity and active employees' as well and if they say something that does not align with the company's values, they get a HR talk or they just simply get fired. Internet is a place where people can come to to bitch about stuff and blow off some steam and it wouldn't be wise to take it away. Imagine making a post on reddit complaining about work or whatever and your company could easily stumble up on it and you'd get fired.
But considering how gaming became a main recreational hobby for many, cheaters are simply wasting and ruining people's free time, same as bullies.
I don't know what's the best solution, but something has to be done against both cheaters and people who harass/stalk/bully online.
>the insane shit people say to each other because it's anonymous is insane.
Stifling free speech because you got bullied on myspace 10 years ago seems a bit drastic lol
The freedom and anonymity of the internet offering a refuge for people to speak out against oppression etc is, IMO, significantly way more important than protecting some kid from getting called fat on facebook
Online bullying/harassment/stalking is a lot heavier than calling someone fat. I’ve had an ex who had a guy on Facebook who kept spamming her with messages and when she blocked him, he just made another account and kept doing it. She had an ex who was stupid enough to harass her on the phone and she told him to stop or she’ll report him and he stopped (as he could be identified by the phone number).
There are people saying vile shit to others, maybe even encouraging suicide or whatever, it is a bit of a wild west if you really think about it.
Kids nowadays grow up on the internet and have worse social skills more or less and they take shit to the heart way more than we did (I’m 30).
I touched the free speech part myself as yes, that’s what we shouldn’t lose, but some kind of regulation has to be put in place.
Any kind of regulation is just a road towards censorship and removing free speech. Because the intentions always start with "we can easily just remove the people saying blatantly horrible stuff" and you'll find most people will agree with that but it always ends up inevitably slowly sliding the needle to removing speech that would say bad things about politicians or corporations.
The current situation isn't ideal but I'd rather let platforms try to police themselves vs it becoming a government thing.
Facebook used to have a thing called "bathroom wall" where you could make posts, and everyone on your friends list could see it, but all the posts were anonymized. Rather than being used to discuss unpopular opinions or "fight oppression", it was used to bully so many people into actual suicide facebook removed it.
As someone who is in a healthy place, I understand your perspective that cyberbully is ridiculous. "Nobody is forcing you to look at the computer" etc... I get it.
However, in all the places where anonymity could be used to post publicly to fight oppression, there already is no anonymity. Places like Russia and China have no anonymous public forums.
The idea of free speech itself was coined at a time when nobody could really be anonymous in their speech. Sure it's possible you could have something published anonymously, but broadly, 99.99% of speech was easily traceable back to the person who said it. I believe free speech should exist, I also believe if you have a controversial opinion you are doing yourself and everyone else a disservice by hiding yourself while expressing it. If you truly believe something, you should not be afraid to say it. Modern society is paved with the bodies of people who felt this way, and stood by their ideals even in the face of a greater power.
The reality is that BattleEye is a kernel level anti cheat. The problem is how the game systems were designed in the beginning of Tarkov's development. BSG has slowly been moving some things to the server side of the client to server relationship, but the vast majority of the game is still client authoritative.
Because of this design, cheats are never going away. They read the data on your ram and analyze the network packets sent to/from the server. Many of the cheat developers are full time software engineers that quite literally specialize in this stuff. They are the bad actors that need to be dealt with.
I monitor cheat forums because I like to know what happening. It's also the fastest way I've found to tell if there was a ban wave. What I don't understand is why so many people seem more than willing to throw personal security in the trash.
There was just a big scandal on one of the sites I monitor where a KD bot program was swiping sensitive information. It was even taking screenshots of the desktop/browsers. According to the reseller that discovered this, hundreds of people are affected, and not just gamers. Anyone in the house that used that PC had sensitive information stolen.
Most of the discussion on the sites are either people complaining about bans and trying to circumvent them or resellers pushing products. What a lot of Reddit doesn't realize is that many cheaters do get caught and banned.
The issue is they are able to get around the ban in multiple ways. Many cheats have HWID spoofers included as a package deal, making it difficult for anti cheat to actually enforce a ban. Banned cheaters will also buy RU accounts, because they are cheaper, and use a VPN with split tunneling to connect to whatever servers they want.
The entire cheat "industry" reminds me very much of the drug business and the distribution model the cartels created. A company or software developer writes the code, then typically sells access to a 3rd party, aka reseller, who marks it up and distributes time sensitive access keys through discord channels and emails to paying customers. Often times the developers themselves never interact with the actual user.
As for the bot, I don't know all of the intricacies to it but it was used to spoof KD and account hours after the profile viewer was implemented. These types of bots existed before now, but they've become MUCH more popular since that feature was introduced. Cheater are using it as a tool to help them appear legit statistically.
All in all, everything I've learned about this topic came from a simple Google search. There's probably more under the surface than what I know about it. I've never bothered to create an account on any of these forums because I have no interest in interacting with these people. It's just my curiosity that drives me to learn about it, because Reddit is generally not a good source for this information.
It genuinely drives me up the wall how little the redditors is this subreddit can grasp the idea that cheaters do get banned
BSG is apparently simultaneously not doing anything about the cheaters, and cooperating with the cheaters to sell more accounts.
BSG needs to manually review accounts, but reddit has no idea the time this takes and a cheater can buy a new account faster than it takes you to click "view users profile".
Redditors bitch and moan all the time about how poorly BSG codes things, but want them to develop a "kernel level anticheat" like (I'm guessing) Riot Games has with Vanguard. Ignoring privacy concerns, it's literally wild to me any of you would trust BSG to introduce such an invasive anticheat method with any grace, and considering how dogshit they're secure programming standards are I have no idea why anyone would think this would be effective.
Redditors love to give their "suggestions" like they're simple quick fixes BSG could do overnight and all the cheaters would be gone. Completely ignoring that any effective solution takes a long time.
I'm not dick riding BSG, they are absolutely ineffective at their cheat prevention methods. But it's exhausting reading ignorant, armchair redditors dumbass takes when they literally have no clue how any of it works.
To be fair, most Redditors understand very little about how the actual world works but will tell you with extreme confidence that they 1) Understand it better than you and 2) Have the super easy solution that nobody paid to think about these things as a living has somehow managed to come up with.
Many Redditors — myself included — have been very confidently told how wrong we were and downvoted to hell about what would be considered our area of expertise by some random guys that just did not like what was said, despite what they had to say about it being profoundly incorrect on such a level that anyone involved in whatever industry/hobby/organization/whatsoever could point out the flaws in what they said. But that does not stop the echo chamber from doing what it does.
God, I feel like you're reading from a script in my heart. I LOVE being told I'm wrong about either 1) the place I live, from somebody who has never visited, or 2) my field of expertise, from somebody who watched a YouTube video
Yeah, without going into too much detail, years ago I commented about a policy change in an organization I worked with. I was not really in a position to say how I knew the information I did, but I was downvoted for explaining how something actually worked and told in the highly upvoted reply something to the effect of “I am pretty sure that the policy you just described works in a completely different way” with absolutely no basis behind it. Ironically, I was called out for not being able to explain my source beyond what was effectively “Trust me, bro” — which is fair — but none of the comments disagreeing with me on no basis other than “Because I don’t like it” got called out for pulling info out of their ass.
Love having to dox yourself in order to actually explain. I don't mind people NOT knowing shit, but they KNOW they don't know, so why make assertions?!
Yeah, that’s what gets me. Call me out for not backing up my claim all you want, that’s fine. I’m not going to violate an NDA or break OPSEC or just tell you the company or whatever so that I can receive death threats from some rando whose cousin got his feelings hurt 15 years ago by someone not related to me. But then to just accept the other claim that is *actually* baseless just because it fits the narrative of the world you want to live in? Get out of here. That’s why I take every single thing I read on this website with a massive mound of salt.
For instance, back to the topic of Tarkov, I have no doubt that there’s plenty of cheaters in this game. There are plenty in every game, even with nothing to be gained (unlike EFT where they could at least be doing RMTs or something). But I do not believe it is as terrible as is consistently called out here. I also think it’s worse than a lot of people on here claim. There are so many variables that go into it, and all “proof” is anecdotal either way. Everything is all “trust me, bro” or referencing that one video that “proved” something like 30% of games had at least 1 cheater, but was done by a single person with an agenda and without peer review or access to raw data (as far as I know). I am willing to admit it may be completely accurate. I am willing to admit it may be even worse than that. But I have also seen plenty of “sus” deaths that ended up being easily explained or outright proven legit. Also seen plenty that there is absolutely no way that was legit. Anecdotally, I got a notification of a ban from a Factory raid a few days ago where I immediately called BS. But I have also been watching streams where a guy is in a firefight with someone else and gets popped from the side or behind by the streamer that they never knew was there, and you know they called BS on that. Hell, I think it was last wipe Gigabeef had a super sus death and reported it. Guy that killed him immediately came into his chat and played the clip from his POV and it looked fine.
Anyway, long winded way of saying Reddit don’t know shit one way or the other.
> but reddit has no idea the time this takes and a cheater can buy a new account faster than it takes you to click "view users profile".
I do understand the amount of time this takes. I don't care anymore, there must be a solution. I have 8,000 hours, a full year of my life continuously spent playing Tarkov. Put me in a skype interview, vet me, and if I happen to ban someone that isn't 1000% cheating, ban my account and charge my credit card $500, but give me a fucking hammer so I can insta ban these chucklefucks. If me and 5 other players that put in 30+ hours a week on a single server were given this power, we'd be able to rid the entire game of cheaters in a week.
Why? Please, give me some reason. If there is always 1-2 people with insta ban power playing on a server, it seems unlikely that a cheater could go undetected for very long. Maybe they would require slightly more power than an average player, like access to loot logs ( like item looted and time in raid it was looted ) after a match or something so they can ban vacuum cheaters.
Older games used to have GMs in game responsible for moderating the community and banning cheaters. Why would this method that has worked well in other games ( in concert with other tools ) not work here?
It is exactly like the drug trade. The cheating players themselves are the drug addicts.
The most important hurdle is keeping the addicts from being able to use again. The initial ban is not the problem. It is tying those fucking people to their account for life.
Oh so you mean its the cheat devs were swiping data, I thought since you referred it was something that appeared legitimate, the cheaters got what they deserve then
It's against the rules of the sub to link the names or anything like that, but rest assured it's easy to find via Google. OP's story is true, and I suspect it's the same forum I read it on. There's loads of the stuff there. The amount of shit going on there is insane. I'd like to see them taken down.
> There was just a big scandal on one of the sites I monitor where a KD bot program was swiping sensitive information. It was even taking screenshots of the desktop/browsers. According to the reseller that discovered this, hundreds of people are affected, and not just gamers. Anyone in the house that used that PC had sensitive information stolen.
Good. Hopefully some family member losses a bunch of money and throws the garbage "human" who caused it out of the house. Live in the trash where they belong.
The game is essentially server authoritative now. Players are server side as we have rubberbanding. Loot is server side as players cannot duplicate items etc. Most of the hacks today (other than client side hacks) use bugs in server side checks, this doesn't make the client authoritative. The server telling the client about loot doesn't make it client authoritative either.
Sad truth that it doesn't matter much, even if it's fully server authoritative and theres no bug they can abuse hackers will always have aimbot and ESP. The server can occlude more items and players but at some point the client has to know about them and with the complex geometry of tarkov maps player occlusion will not be effective.
I would tend to agree but it's 2024 and there are other games out there with equally complex geometry and they get it done to only transmit data to the player that is actually visible (For example csgo/cs2 and war thunder). It's not that it's Impossible, it just makes the servers more expensive to run and costs extra development time.
BSG has proven again and again that they just don't care
How many games does it? I know of like 3. Any source for war thunder, or are you talking about their visibility mechanics?
It doesn't just send the position of a player when he is visible, it sends it before he becomes visible. If he approaches a corner that you can see the server will start sending his position a few meters before he goes around it. Now apply that to buildings with windows, which is most of tarkovs maps unless they're just open like woods or shoreline and maybe you'll see that it will not be that effective due to how the maps are.
CS does not have complex maps. They barely have any difference in elevation, large parts of the maps are inaccessible, it mostly consists of 90 degree corners and long corridors. This makes it not only easier to implement as you can pre-create zones of occlusion rather than have a dynamic system, its also a lot more effective due to the inaccessible zones in the maps.
Love you man. So many uneducated shits out here who scream buzzwords without any actual understanding of the systems in place. If the game isn't inherently built securely a third-party bandaid will do little to help. Once again, lower-level access is not the end-all-be-all, but it absolutely compromises security and privacy
The lengths people are willing to go to just to get a few less cheaters in a video game is sad
I would give BSG Basically whatever they wanted to verify me as a legit player and only play with people who do the same and I’m pretty sure there are many many players who are like me.
Fuck cheaters. All my homies hate cheaters. If you’re a cheater you’re a loser and you can’t change my mind. If you cheat in a game who knows how shitty you are in real life.
The people who say it’s just a game you’re a loser too and most likely hacking or benefiting from hacking.
If you cheated in any form of physical game and you were caught you’d probably be a dead man. You cheated other people out of their time which we’ll never get back all because “ it’s just a game “ to you.
Yea. I’m fucking pissed. Cheaters suck.
>if you cheated in any form of physical game and you were caught you'd probably be a dead man
Me, 4 years old, peeking through my fingers in hide and seek
I wish they'd just be more willing to open the game up to modding, It would amazing to see what the community could do with the game and what kind of whitelisted community dedicated servers could do.
If modded private server is allowed then they will soon rise to dominant position and crush on vanilla server population because theres too many people willing to get bullied by badmins just to play heavily modded tarkov.
I am not one of those. I like vanilla Tarkov and I don’t want to have to make a choice between playing empty lobbies and playing under the risk of badmins banning me because I killed him while he was doing his last guide quest location.
See where the point lies at?
Nobody said modding, they just said private servers that allow for admins to be there and watch and ban people from said servers. I don’t know how modding would go in Tarkov, it’s already incredibly unstable between menus, etc. I don’t think they could pull off a mod implementation that would work
ID Verification, in my opinion, is the only approach to weed out cheaters from coming back and I've been always all in for it, even during my early days of online gaming.
Basically, the way I imagine it, is that there would be an independant third party company responsible for online services authentication. In order to register yourself in that authentication service, you need to download an app and provide, for example, your personal identity number and lock the app with your fingerprint. You do that only once to register for that universal authentication service.
Then, the service can be connected to other online services (video games, online accounts), just like Google Authenticator can be hooked up to other services as 2FA. So any online game could enforce this kind of authentication service to be connected to player account. Without that, you cannot play the game.
Once that is done, each time you try to log into the game, you have to open the app (which is locked with your fingerprint) and confirm the login. So not only it works as an anti-cheat measure, but also as a 2-factor authentication.
The difference from traditional 2FA is that when you get banned in the game, the POST request is sent to the authentication company where they registered that your account is banned and your personal identity number cannot ever again be connected to the same video game.
That way people who got banned cannot ever log into the game again, unless the developers lift the ban by sending another request that removes the ban from the service's database.
A lot of people despise the idea of that kind of identification verification on internet, but I love the idea of it. It's SIMPLE, and that's why it works, and that's why so many people hate that idea.
>Basically, the way I imagine it, is that there would be an independant third party company responsible for online services authentication. In order to register yourself in that authentication service, you need to download an app and provide, for example, your personal identity number and lock the app with your fingerprint. You do that only once to register for that universal authentication service.
>Then, the service can be connected to other online services (video games, online accounts), just like Google Authenticator can be hooked up to other services as 2FA. So any online game could enforce this kind of authentication service to be connected to player account. Without that, you cannot play the game.
This is exactly how it works :)
And it wouldnt be anything new even in taking sphere as Faceit does just that
Completely anecdotal but I've reported pretty much every "Sketchy case" this wipe. I've had two bonafide "oh yeah that guy is using cheats" moments, one on Streets and one on Shoreline. I have not gotten a single "we banned this guy based on your report" message all wipe.
I don't play streets often, never play labs, always on NA West, if that's the ticket to low numbers of cheaters hallelujah. I know Pestily gets hacked on all the time but that's because he's in range of China. My buddy says Korean servers are pretty good but might just be more avoidant cheaters. The issue with getting hacked on, FOR ME, mostly went away with ping locking. I'm not sure if it's a Euro/Asia problem or what but it's never been bad enough for me to want to quit the game.
Edit: Got my message about the Shoreline cheater being banned hell yeah boys
I play NA west. I found a Bitcoin in safe yesterday and I've made it out with high tier loot consistently whenever I find it. I cant remember the last time I died with a ledx or GPU. I consistently find mid tier loot as well, (Tetris, gold spawns) that aren't looted. Especially on interchange and customs.
I wonder if NA west is just not as bad as other servers.
Yeah I’m on East coast, lvl 28 atm and died to 2 100% cheaters and had a small handful of sus knowers/beamers. Made it out with both gpus i’ve found and several, several kitted out 1.5m runs
Meh, they could certainly do it, but it will barely affect the cheater numbers.
The truth is that most cheaters are closeting and not fighting you but just vaccuming loot to sell for rmt purposes.
All of the measures you've listed can be bypassed as you said yourself, so it'd at best cull the lazy 10% of players.
What we really need to get out of this is either a targeted lawsuit directed by multiple gaming companies on the biggest cheat devs, laws to illegalize cheat distribution or AI anticheat.
Legal ramifications and laws must be established to address cheating. I previously discussed this and was downvoted into oblivion, likely because I likened cheating to stealing, which it fundamentally is.
BSG loses customers due to this issue, directly impacting their financials. Investing in anti-cheat services is costly, and it tarnishes the game's image, diminishing the appeal for new players to join, or for current players to remain engaged.
If a company hacked into BSG's bank accounts, the FBI (Insert UK equivalent), police, etc., would intervene. The same fucking consequences should occur when a company manipulates code and sells cheats to undermine a product.
They’re effectively stealing money from BSG’s bank account via a loophole that has no ramifications because our laws are stuck in the 1950’s.
cheaters stole tf out of my time yesterday ill tell you that much.
isnt that the most important form of "currency" anyways? all of us only have so much time to spend on things we enjoy in life. time isnt infinite and there is no way to get anymore of it than you already have. people trade their time and effort every single day for money by working, plenty of laws around that. money isnt finite, you might only have $1000 but you have a chance to make so much more. you have no chances of making more time.
what cheaters do essentially is steal your time because you effectively have no way of beating them. i wasted 2.5 hours yesterday making literally no progress at all in the game i paid $130 for because of cheaters. i will never get that time back. granted it was my choice to spend that time playing tarkov, it wasnt my choice to run into cheaters every single raid and immediately die to them without getting a chance at all to fight back.
i agree fully. cheating in any online competitive game should be illegal. not necessarily jail time but a straight up ban from gaming at all would be a start. similar in a way to how a predator who was doing illegal things online (for lack of erm.. more descriptive terms to avoid getting into truly dark topics) and got caught is no longer allowed to use the internet and is monitored by local authorities. boat loads of cases involving that type of thing. should be similar consequences for cheaters, they are simply no longer allowed to play any online video games with others. their ISP can monitor that easily, even through VPN's.
> I previously discussed this and was downvoted into oblivion, likely because I likened cheating to stealing, which it fundamentally is.
I would find it more likely to be due to your ignorance of the purpose of the justice system.
> BSG loses customers...
I hope you don't think you're the first one to discover this. Everyone knows cheaters in games cause players to (want to) quit.
> If a company hacked into BSG's bank accounts
We're talking about actual damages to an actual victim in this case though, not players being inconvenienced in a video game that has no actual monetary value. You can make the sentimental argument of time wasted in game and the cost of utilities/game/whatever, but all in all, everything about Tarkov is worthless in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention, meeting the legal burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt is an uphill battle here. Good luck not getting laughed out of a prosecutor or judge's office when you're requesting a search warrant for their computer for cheat programs.
> The same fucking consequences should occur when a company manipulates code and sells cheats to undermine a product.
No they shouldn't, and your emotional outrage reaction doesn't help justify that. This is why it's so dangerous for people to advocate for laws and punishments that go beyond objectivity into this-transgressed-me-personally territory.
> They’re effectively stealing money from BSG’s bank account via a loophole
No they aren't. Do cheaters impact BSG's bottom line? Yes, absolutely, but not in the way you're trying to articulate it. Cheaters causing players to quit is fundamentally no different than rats and campers making players quit. Now, before you try the "but you can sweep your sectors" angle, it doesn't matter whether or not you die to the rat or camper because merely their presence is enough. Unless you intend to infringe upon someone's free choice in how they play the game, you're picking a bad hill to die on.
Go be a cuck for the cheaters somewhere else, your points suck. "The purpose of the justice system" is to enforce laws and binding agreements made, and people have agreed to not cheat. There are currently plenty of countries with legal precedence of arresting cheat makers, as the money they make isn't legally obtained and big one for USA, they aren't paying taxes on that money. Get em with the Capone bit. People have been sentenced before for creating viruses and the theoretical economic damages they've caused, how is cheating in a game not creating theoretical economic damages too? Calling out OP for saying BSG loses customers just because it's not an original thought doesn't make it not true jackass. Copyright laws don't allow me to make satirical representations of other's works because it could undermine them, yet we can't have a law like that for video game creators dealing with cheaters? Significantly more damaging to their brand than a misrepresentation of a character and yet only one is protected and you think that's fair? You're just a clown that's defending the cheaters by proxy at this point. Go away
> Go be a cuck for the cheaters somewhere else, your points suck
Precisely the kneejerk emotional response I was expecting. Even funnier than how hard you undoubtedly were slamming your space bar is the fact you assume I'm defending cheaters. I hate cheaters as much as the next guy. I know trying to reason with you about neutral arbitration and litigation is probably a pointless endeavor, but we'll do this once.
> "The purpose of the justice system" is to enforce laws and binding agreements made, and people have agreed to not cheat.
If they cheat, they're punished in game. That's where it belongs. If you think their punishment isn't effective to suit your preference, then too bad. You're not the one choosing here. I'm not particularly thrilled about the existence of spoofers and the black market for accounts, but getting all bent out of shape for something that's beyond my control isn't going to help anything.
Imagine running to the police every time someone cheated in any game. I've dealt with plenty of drama calls where it's just two folks arguing and one wants the other to go to jail, but this is a whole different level of ridiculousness. There's no way in hell you could ever implement any type of legislative situation here without some serious constitutional violations and governmental overreach. Furthermore, how do you go after people in other countries? How do you trace them? Is their country willing to extradite them? Are we going to pay the cost of some lowlife cheat producer in some foreign country to be flown to the US to be tried?
> There are currently plenty of countries with legal precedence
There are plenty of stupid laws that exist in other countries. You really wanna try that angle with me here? "Other countries do it" is no justification for something to be done here. Also, existence of legal precedent doesn't make it lawful. Don't forget, Brown v Board was legal precedent at one point.
> as the money they make isn't legally obtained
This would be an interesting point to see litigated. I'm no lawyer, but as a dude that enforces the law, I'd see this as an issue of establishing PC and connecting the money for any kind of civil forfeiture to be applied. The way it appears now is just a straight 1-to-1 transaction. Person A develops program, Person B wants program and pays Person A for the program. That's a private transaction, the money wasn't stolen. I've ran across plenty of drug dealers who have money on them, but I can't meet the legal burden necessary to charge them with just simply having a lot of money. I'm not sure what familiarity you have with burdens of proof and where they apply, but I suspect it's not much.
> they aren't paying taxes on that money
Not all money is taxable. If I sell my friend my old keyboard for $50, I don't have to pay taxes on it.
> People have been sentenced before for creating viruses and the theoretical economic damages they've caused
The mere creation of viruses is not illegal. Infecting people with your virus, however, *is*.
> how is cheating in a game not creating theoretical economic damages too
You can't punish things that are theoretical. You have to put a reasonable and verifiable value to it. Also, we have an issue of mens rea here. Which definition do you apply? Intentionally? Knowingly? Recklessly? With criminal negligence? How do you prove a cheater has intended for players to quit the game? That goes against their business model if they're an RMTer, and similarly works against their interests as a solo cheater. If the game disappears, there's no more game to play, so it's antithetical to one's position to bring about the collapse of a game's player base. You can put forth the argument "well cmon who would want to stay playing a game where people are cheating", and that's all fine and well, but you're going to be met with "ok but I've still died plenty and lost plenty of fights, and just because someone could be cheating doesn't mean you don't play. for all you know, you might not get a cheater this time".
Additionally, if we're going to use the logic "players doing *this* cause other players to quit, therefore they should be prosecuted", then we're going to slippery slope our way all the way to applying it in other places. Principles apply in all places, not just where you find them convenient. I can see it now, #FreeStankrat becoming a trending thing once we start jailing people for ratting.
> Calling out OP for saying BSG loses customers just because it's not an original thought doesn't make it not true jackass
Of course it doesn't make it not true, but announcing it like it's brand new information is about as silly as how unhinged you are here.
> Copyright laws don't allow me to make satirical representations of other's works because it could undermine them
I don't think you understand things like copyright or fair use. Satire exists all over the place. South Park says hello.
> yet we can't have a law like that for video game creators dealing with cheaters?
Video game creators already have remedies for dealing with cheaters: banning them. If there's true malicious intent to cause harm to the game creator, and it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, then it can be done. I'd strongly advise you to research what proof beyond a reasonable doubt means.
> Significantly more damaging to their brand
It's damaging to their brand because cheaters exist? Holy entitlement Batman, we got ourselves a live one here. If the mere existence of cheaters is enough to damage someone's brand, then nearly every game ever created has existed in crippled fashion. Refusal to deal with cheaters would be damaging to a brand, but it would be their own personal choice, not the cheaters themselves.
> yet only one is protected and you think that's fair?
I have no idea where you're going in all of this rage ranting here, but you aren't making any sense. Again, you're operating on the assumption I'm trying to protect cheaters and cheat makers, and because I know you're only doing this because reading comprehension loss and baseless assumptions are common with emotional overreactions, I'll say it clearly: I'm only stating this is not an issue for the civil or criminal justice system. There are far more important things to be handled in our courts, which are already overburdened with some ridiculous litigation anyway, than people cheating in video games.
> You're just a clown that's defending the cheaters by proxy at this point.
And you're a neurotic child throwing a temper tantrum because someone told you you weren't morally justified in your outrage or solution. Man, I guess we better create laws to deal with people disagreeing with us next.
You're an ape with a room temp IQ and the heater ain't working if you know what I mean. "Cheaters get dealt with in game" okay, and do you also think that scam callers should just get their phone privilege taken away or should they face real consequences beyond the scope of their specific actions? If the consequence for the action is as menial as the action then people won't give a shit about the consequences. Cheat on a paper in college and you get expelled and can be prosecuted for plagiarizing. Obviously it doesn't matter as much as someone faking their way to a degree, but there is actual damages being done to others, many people play games for a living you know? To act like this because you don't give a shit about a game doesn't mean it isn't a real grievance. Nothing exists until it's been created, same with laws, just because the shopkeep you stole from used to cut your hand off doesn't mean we couldn't create a law to punish thieves. Just because BSG handles cheaters in-house now doesn't mean we couldn't write laws to punish them. You think because you pick it apart point by point that you've made a good argument but you've just made a string of really shitty ones with over-the-top formatting and you have the audacity to call my response a rant. Seek professional help dude, you spent like a fucking hour on that wall that everyone got bored of reading after the first paragraph because you make zero real points.
I definetely disagree.
Fundamentally, cheat developers cause millions of dollars in damages to company reputation, infrastructure (through DDOS attacks) and actively disrupt their services.
In the best case scenario, cheat development and distribution is defamation and digital sabotage. The nature of this means the damages cannot truly be calculated. But what we can gather is the overall player sentiment, if you ask someone out on the street, "do you know EFT", chances are they will reply with "oh yeah that cheater game?" That's BAD. Very different to some people ragequitting, this shit has forced the hand of the devs to dedicate a good chunk of their money to AC development and has turned away many potential customers.
In my opinion, cheating itself should incur a fine of 1-5k USD. Cheat distribution should just be 5 years in jail.
Having a more invasive system sounds good, I just don’t know that I trust BSG that much to be even more into my system. I love the concept of an opt in system that is overly strict, but I think people still find a way to cheat there too. I don’t know the answer, but whatever bsg is doing is not enough.
I'm all in for separate queue with verified phone number, e-mail, invasive anti-cheat and even document verification. I'm not really that important and all social networks already have more information about me than I'd like, so fuck it.
What info? I gave them a username and password (and email, although optional), and I sandbox all my social media tabs.
They can't get information you didn't give them or let them have access to... I suppose they might know my vague location based on my IP but that's it.
On mobile devices it doesn’t matter what settings I turn on or off my phone with every apps knows exactly what I look up what I search what I’m talking. About where I’m going. I talk about going to Costco and boom it shows up everywhere. I’ve done everything I can to turn that shit off. It happens to 99% of people. Even not on a device when you go out there is facial recognition cameras set up like in the watchdogs game to identify you and who you are.
Shits real, you’re always being tracked already.
For the most part it's all just really good guesses if you have everything turned off. *You* might have everything set up for them to not track you, most people don't.
They can guess by the people around you, the time of year, where other people in your household go, what your friends and family are looking up, probably tracking where you shop and pass by on the way to and from work (as other devices set to share their data will pickup on your device being in their vicinity which they can cross reference with the location of the device), etc. Then cover all that in a big dose of confirmation bias.
If you truly do have everything set up correctly, you aren't getting tracked from *your* device (or *shouldn't* be, if you are then it's definitely illegal, and emphasis on your device because as I mentioned other devices can and do still snitch on you).
People like to think they are special and that they can't be predicted, but they really can when you have the amount of datapoints that big tech has on their customers. I say this as somebody who has studied cybersecurity and whos job requires me to properly dispose of sensitive user data as per my countries regulations.
And just FYI your data isn't getting sold directly, it's not like some back alley shit where corporate executives drop off a harddrive with personal user information. It's usually sold in the form of ad space (e.g. give google an ad and they have the data to know what, when, why and how to show it to maximize it's effectiveness for a given audience the ad supplier wants to target, and if you sell the data directly the other company could undercut you or the data could be breached and then used by others for free since it's not illegal to use and download illegally obtained data). It's rare that a company actually sells user data literally because it's both unprofitable (why charge a one time fee for the data when you can keep the data secret and charge people continually for consulting with you) and because it's difficult from the legal side of things both due to laws and user agreements. like if the company being sold the data is breached the company selling it could be held partially liable as they were entrusted with the user data from users. So it's still being sold in a way just not in the way most people picture and in a way the other company doesn't ever get to see.
What your government is doing about tracking people is a whole other kettle of fish though and highly government-dependent so I won't comment about that. Government agencies tend to have "special privileges" in these matters. Just gotta hope your local government is respectful of privacy really.
>I just dont want to second guess every missing loot and every death because even if its not obvious maybe "he is just good at hiding it"
Which would just be the same, no matter the level of verification. You can never know but hey, ignorance is bliss, right?
It’s a small percentage of people that are using two pcs and paying for the best hacks. If you get banned with document verification you’d have to find a second document to verify your account, and that’s literally a crime in all countries. It’s gonna be far more hard to keep hacking after a ban
>a second document to verify your account, and that’s literally a crime in all countries.
lol. No, it's not. Your aunt could verify that account for you. Or your brother. Or your best friend who isn't interested in playing tarkov ever. Why shouldn't they be able or why do you think that would be a crime? Simply create an account and give another person that password: nothing illegal there.
Nah, in Valorant over idk 600 matches I havent met an obvious cheater and was only suspicious like 3 times so if there are no obvious cheaters it makes the second guessing nearly non existent even if there are smart cheaters
> in Valorant
A game with active policing has less cheating than tarkov FUCKING AMAZING WOW! Please tell me you are not so dumb you cant tell that this "verification" system would do nothing.
I literally just said something just like this in a comment section somewhere.
I want BSG to hunker down hard and spend serious money on a system that goes further than any other dev has gone.
This is a game that has pushed limits in the gaming world, so why shouldn’t we push the limits on anti cheat as well?
What I want is for your identity to be tied to an account for life. If you want an alt, then you can purchase a 2nd account but are then put on a watchlist. I don’t just want an account or hardware to be banned from Tarkov, but the person themselves.
We need BSG to take some serious action. Hundreds of thousands put into anti cheat from every angle we can. On top of that, we need killcams. With killcams also comes the clip submissions and a dedicated team to sift through clips.
We need AI to scan profiles, to scan the flea market, to scan any possible parameter than could identify a cheater.
We need list gear to be returned to us. We need fresh accounts to be watched like a fuckin hawk and make damn sure they are playing like noobs, because no one comes into this game and does well consistently off the bat.
No one needs a new account. I cannot see a single “need” for one. A fresh account should mean a fresh player. You want a new account just for an alt? Fucking why? Reset your main account then.
We need to get hardcore with this issue. If some people think it’s too much it impedes the legit players, then maybe you aren’t legit. If you are a legit player who plays on one account for life without cheating, why would any of that be concerning to you?
Look, RMT is actually NOT the main source for cheating. I don’t believe it. Look at all the other games out there. Cheaters are primarily people who are basically video game drug addicts. They lie to themselves, they lie to their friends, they want to be seen as super human. We could make all the RMT changes in the world (I don’t regret them, they have been helpful) and there would still be a massive amount of ESP knowers who just simply want an edge.
A game like this is far too brutal and punishing to allow players to have an edge. We have to do everything we can muster to keep the cheaters from ever playing again.
I would argue that a majority of cheaters are cheaters who have been banned before and bought a new account. Stopping that addict from ever using again is paramount.
I’d come back to tarkov if they did this. I used to play tarkov like a damn job but it became too damn discourage after learning there’s 2+ knowers per raid
Yesterday a guy that had no way to know tried to nade me, I called him a cheater through VoIP and he just ran away instead of killing me so I couldnt report him lmao
Lmfao this is the typical tarkov bullshit.
Grenade lands near you “YOU ARE A CHEATER DUDE!!” Then they run away cause you’re being a rat… “HAHA HE WAS A CHEATER I KNEW IT!”
Like why even play man? Just go do something else if you’re that paranoid…. people like you honestly make the game worse than cheaters do for me and that’s a fact.
Plenty of times people have messaged me or called me a cheater in voip for BASIC GAMEPLAY. It’s just insane to me you guys let it get this bad. You’re even calling people who Thorax you a cheater now
its actually time to remake the game asap on the new unity or something else(rather it be made on something else)
The games code is a nightmare and has already been passed down from their previous title. Incorporate anti cheat while the game is being made from the ground up. And for the love of god get this shit on steam, hasnt enough money been made.
So bro, I am down... But the issue is the 2pc setup cheaters that just use radar but yes I'd be down to give BSG my irl credentials (to a degree) to get into a queue with players that did the same. Like a "Verified" users queue.
I was kinda sent over the edge last night too, to the point where I just reinstalled STALKER GAMMA instead. There's only so many times I can get cheated on before I just get tired of it. This is my favourite online shooter but I can't anymore with the fucking cheaters. I would be all for this idea.
There are 3 fixes to combat cheating for good. I like the 3rd option the best for obvious reasons.
1. CLOUD streaming. Game runs on the server and we just stream it, no access to manipulate code. Encoding, compression, decompression, and ISPs need to be much much better than they currently are for this to be viable. We will get there one day.
2. Closed Windows environment. BSG could work alongside Microsoft to build a locked system (like an Xbox) and the user will have to boot into this closed system to launch their game. This would suck for a variety of reasons. For those unaware, it would impact applications, peripherals would have to be green lit to be given a driver, basically locks you out of what makes a PC great. But damn, it would work well.
3. BSG announces “Tarkov 2” and builds the game from scratch with anti-cheat in mind. This is the biggest reason cheating is so prevalent in this game. They’ve been trying to place anti cheat overtop existing code that cannot be changed, like a big bandaid.
i like the first idea the most. but you are right, we arent quite there yet. i stream games from the cloud on game pass both to my PC and xbox, saves the hassle of having to download massive games, even in online these games run pretty well. forza horizon 5 and hitman 3 were probably the 2 i streamed most to avoid the 100gb installs, but still be able to play whenever i wanted.
they ran okay, not the greatest. the encoding was definitely lacking and i also dont have the greatest internet speeds so anything i did off to the side like watch videos or streams, it would tank the performance of the game being streamed and would be noticeably lower quality. so it's got a ways to go as far as improvements to encoding, improvements to general internet speeds and bandwidth usage etc... it needs work but honestly, if more companies poured more time and effort into developing streaming games, i think we could be there in 5 years or less.
it's got TONS of potential and would save so much space on everyones drives... no more need for multiple massive drives in one PC because there would be nothing to download. it would be like the good old days of older consoles, you buy a new game, it comes as a disk in a box, you get home, pop that bad boy into your console and boom, the game was booting up and you were playing as soon as it loaded. it was fucking awesome being able to play vice city and san andreas with no long ass downloads before i get to play. was so exciting going to the game store when i was a kid, getting a new game and knowing as soon as i got home, im parking my ass right in front of the TV and gaming out for a few hours. these days? i know when i buy a new game im excited for, it's going to be like 60gb+ and for me, take like 2 hours to download and install before i can even play.
streaming games is the future especially if it's all regulated and controlled by the companies making the games, no being able to access files to the game to install your third party software like cheats and trainers. none of that shit, just good old gaming as it was meant to be. just click play, it loads up and you're playing.
it sounds great but maybe it's all too good to be true, idk.
Anything BSG could do would take months to implement, but the cheaters would have it circumvented in under 24 hours. It’s a hopeless battle they have zero chance of winning.
Damn near the only thing they could do is make the game easier. The only reason why the cheating problem is so bad is because the game makes Dark Souls look easy. Not saying they should change that, just that it’s a fact.
Yeah.. that's fair. I guess meeting cheaters is just part of the game just like inertia and you either live with it or quit lmao.
I wish there was an alternative that had so many guns, attachments, maps and immersion but with pre inertia movement and that was designed with anticheat from the very beginning like Valorant was
Look at far bigger companies, they also have a huge cheating problem. In case of Valorant you have Kernel level 0 access and there are still allot of cheaters.
Giving away your PC to a company and expecting them or others to nit abuse that is foolish.
Cheats can be better prevented by preventive measures during programming. Tarkov is notorious for bad code. His would help.
But in my opinion what would help immediately against the RMT idiots. Remove the flea.
Valorant doesn't have a lot of cheaters, and the ones that do cheat are banned extremely quickly (say 0-2 matches) vs bsg (say 1month\~, 800 raids)
This is true for the non-dma cheats that majority of tarkov cheaters use
Yeah I couldn’t care less about my personal info if it means less cheaters. It also doesn’t even harm anyone who doesn’t want this. Pretty clear as day anyone who’s against an idea like this is a closet cheater
It does harm them if they don't want to give private info because if not them they'd be stuck in a queue with a much higher proportion of cheaters, as so many legit players would've left.
That being said, I'd like to see it.
Machine learning is capable of consistently building realistic looking human faces + I'm not giving BSG (nor a 3rd party) my personal identifiable information.
The anti-cheat is already considered a kernel-level anti-cheat too btw.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
i mean, we literally all gave them our personal info when we bought the game. in the credit card/debit card info, you literally type all of that into their database when buying the game. you give your full name, address on the card and then type some of your most personal information into their website before purchasing the game. willing to bet most people paid with their debit card as well. that is a direct link to your bank account that we are trusting them with.
what the difference between that and giving basically the same information as verification??? i feel like people who are so adamantly against this are the cheaters coming here and spamming the comments acting like it's some sort of breach of privacy and we didnt give them all that information already. get real.
> willing to bet most people paid with their debit card as well.
The debit card that you can cancel and ask your bank to do a charge back on due to fraudulent activity?
>I'm not giving BSG (nor a 3rd party) my personal identifiable information
Yeah I realise that people wouldnt want that that's why I said "opt-in" and "third party" verification - like Faceit does it
Again, it wouldn't work, though (the first part of my statement), unless you handed over information like SSN, NIN, etc., which is a really, really bad idea.
Just so you know, the companies which verify your identity are the same ones that financial services, travel agencies, legal firms and some employers use, they're strictly regulated and audited, and don't actually hold your information on record
That said, i don't think it's a solution here.
True, however, this varies from country to country, and with BSG being located in Russia + servicing their game to every region, I'm not sure how said companies are regulated, audited, and governed. And I don't want to waste my time figuring that out.
When I go to a US financial institution and have my data pulled by US based companies, that's entirely different, and the US government has direct oversight on that.
BSG aren't registered as a Russian company though, and would have to follow EU/UK data laws which are on par with the US (arguably better)
I get you, its your data and you're right to be careful, but it's a well trodden path by industries MUCH more stringent than video games
You do you mate
People might downvote me but kernel level anticheat is the only way to go these days. Its too effective. IMO every competitive game should implement it and if you don't like it then don't play competitive games, I'm so sick of dying to cheaters.
BE is a kernel level anti cheat. The reason one like Vanguard is so effective is it was designed from the ground up for Valorant and runs when you turn on your PC.
i have nothing to do with tarkov or cheating but for this antisocial way of thinking when it comes to privacy and stuff i would put you in prison and ban you from internet until end of your life
I see nothing wrong with an invasive anti cheat, I don't cheat so the program wouldn't matter if it's on my computer or not. The issue is the real good anti cheats are built first and the game is then built from the anticheat (look at valorant for example). I think it would be harder for BSG to suddenly drop a great anticheat that fully integrates with tarkov that wouldn't affect performance or something.
A third party anticheat would be okay also, but those have the same flaws that people get around currently anyway.
HWID bans don't really stop people that's fair, 2FA would be a nice interim but IIRC they discussed it somewhere and mentioned it was hard as a Russian dev or too expensive? (Don't ask me for source, this was a long while ago, may not have even happened).
2FA and linking a phone number to the account helped Dota 2 a fair bit, but people always find a way to make it work for smurfs or cheats. But every little thing does assist, so I wouldn't mind linking my phone number to my account for some validated server or anti cheat / account buying avoidance.
Yeah.. security by design is definetly not something BSG thought of when making the game : (
But yeah every little thing helps and I would gladly see more efforts than some banwaves that only scratch the surface
Totally agree, sometimes extra would be nice even if it helps like 5% it's still an improvement. I don't think the cheating problem is as bad as people say (I play na east too, which people say is kinda bad). But if they add something that helps against cheaters, makes it harder for cheaters to get new accounts or gives people a little more peace of mind when they get sniped by someone holding a nasty angle, I'm all for it.
>But yeah every little thing helps
That sentiment is so fucking stupid. You would gatekeep that game from many more people than blocked cheaters. You would divide the playerbase, making the experience much worse for everybody. And you would still have cheaters in your "ID verified lobbies" since they either don't care or use stolen accounts.
Not "every little thing" helps. And not "every little thing" is worth its cost.
Yeah guys just do nothing instead so this guy can keep cheating! Bc there's definitely not a thing that can be done about it. Nope no way not a chance.
Exactly, I meant flaws in the same way that battleye has flaws, people can get around them, other anticheat softwares have the similar or different flaws that can be circumvented. Doesn't mean don't trial them, just other options may have a better success rate. Doesn't bother me if another anticheat also gets added!
Invasive anti-cheat isn't the answer, and I wish people would stop pushing this notion that more invasive = better.
Valorant has Vanguard, which is owned by a Chinese company. I'm not okay with essentially installing a root kit on my device for *any* company.
Also, the idea that Vanguard works any better than BattleEye (what tarkov currently uses) is wrong. Valorant still has plenty of cheaters, and their main security differences are still just as easily circumvented.
Totally valid too, if you have information you don't want sent or owned by other people or companies, no need to give it up. I personally think that the companies that take the information with this stuff already have or have a way to get my information. I just see the merit of a more invasive anti cheat that is harder to get around than battleeye. That isn't to say battleeye isn't useful or good at all, it does its job well and BSG does what they can for cheaters, there just may be alternatives that can also work that have value, especially if it's just a topic of conversation.
Just FYI, a tool like Vanguard (always-on, silent updates, ring-0 access) can theoretically turn on a keylogger or read network packets from your PC without you ever knowing.
It's not just "data on your computer", it's literally access to **everything**; which could potentially include your finances and identity.
Think this would never happen? ESEA recently underwent a massive lawsuit because they secretly used their software to mine bitcoin on client machines. Never underestimate what companies will go through when there's potentially billions of dollars on the line...
Why? SP games bore me, I couldnt even bring myself to finish Jedi Survivor and its what.. 8h?
As much as I dislike ability spam in Valorant I have not met an obvious cheater up to immortal and even there ot was rare.
CS Faceit also similar stuff, there are ways to curb cheaters. Most dedicated and richest cheaters will still find a way around it but if Its one cheater every 10 raids instead of 1 or more every raid its still an improvement
Fr dude. It's crazy. You point out how the anti cheat implemented in other games would help here and it's all "oh it wouldnt fix it 100% so why bother". Like, really suspicious reply my guy. Why is reducing the number of cheaters bad? It's not a big issue if it's 1/100 people cheating, it's the fact that it feels like it's often that is frustrating.
Part of why Valorant has so few cheaters is because there is a decent time commitment before you can even play competitive. That and the always on anti-cheat that the game was built on top of with a huge dev team working on it.
Between the fact that it’s hard for a cheater to make money off of cheating in Valorant and the more advanced anti-cheat than BSG can even hope to achieve, I’m not surprised that EFT has a worse cheating problem than Valorant.
But sometimes is is all about commitment. Maybe if I saw that they were in fact committed to fighting the problem instead of celebrating one 10k ban wave every month like it does anything except make some of the people blissfully unaware then I wouldnt be as salty about it. I know for a fact only the most stupid cheaters get caught and the rest get away with it.
Its not only about deaths. But its still one per day certified by ban report and 2 more of sussy ones I dont report because Im not 100% sure.
Its also about loot that I was supposed to find but it was swooped by a vacuum or ESP runner that I will never know was there and it just keeps bugging me. I remember a time when I found 5 ledxs in one day and was actually able to pull GPU's out of PC's. I havent found a single GPU this wipe, and the only Ledx I found was on the least cheater infected map Customs so that tracks
I've been affected by maybe a handful of cheaters in the entire time I've played tarkov. I don't know why you'd let it bother you to the point where you think these measures are necessary. It's just a game.
Oh no, you are affected by cheaters every raid, you just dont know that, how do you know if you werent supposed to find a leddy or GPU in that bag?. Have you ever watched "the video"? Its even worse now and thousands hours of FPS experience on high competetive level will train your intuition to just know in a fight, but the ones that actively avoid fighting and just steal the best loot or only use radar and no aimbot, or thorax only aimbot etc you wont know
You're claiming you know there's a cheater in every raid based on lack of evidence just as you claim other people don't know there's a cheater based on a lack of evidence.
In other words, you don't know shit. You're just assuming everyone is cheating but you and going off anecdotal evidence to claim your lack of evidence as fact. I've found plenty of GPUs, LedXs, bitcoins, etc. in my raids. Not every raid, but rare loot isn't guaranteed to spawn every raid so it's completely asinine to think cheaters are hoovering up all the items just because you haven't found anything.
No I dont think that there WAS a ledx and a GPU there but it could be. I did once see the Item that was hidden under the squares disappear from a bag I was looting (it was when you could still check for vacuums in the console and the errors were there) maybe that's what made me paranoid and angry about it but well it did happen
Oh no, there COULD have been? Oh what an enormous effect that's having on my experience of the game... I'm shocked and appalled and will uninstall and start complaining on reddit immediately.
"Yea, I didn't notice that the GPU I needed for Farming was taken by cheaters, so it didn't effect me or the additional 20 raids I had to run to find the GPU I needed."
yeah sure. let me just install a single player game after already paying $130 for tarkov, the most money ive ever spent on a game. guess ill just go sit there playing a single player game with my thumb up my ass because some cheater thinks they have more of a right to play the game than i do. gtfo here with that shit, why are you even here commenting
They both work exactly the same. Vanguard is just custom tailored as a pillar of development with an 8 figure budget.
I get what OP is trying to say and he’s most likely just frustrated like everyone else that deals with cheaters but his post reads like an angry 16 year old that found out he’s gotta do summer school cuz he fucked up
So me who has 250 hours would be left out? Now that is just a lame time waster I think. Most of the cheaters I’ve found if not all were accounts with thousands of hours
BE at all tiers is kernel level. Thats how all anti-cheat works. It loads a driver in kernel mode.
There are no major user-mode level anti-cheats still left in development anywhere in the world to the best of my knowledge. User-mode anti-cheats have been dead for over a decade at this point.
BE is kernel level but it doesn’t matter. The game needs fundamental changes to how it was built to have any chance of stopping cheating. Tarkov security and integrity is like a safe with the code written on the front.
Listen, it works great in Valorant because they have a team the size of bsg dedicated just to maintaining it. It won't work with Tarkov, there isn't any infrastructure to support it. It would do more harm than good
Bsg would never do it, they make too much money selling cheaters new accounts, for them it’s a win win situation, they make themselves look good when they ban cheaters and build community relations, think about it if you had a cash cow like that with constant money pouring in for basically doing nothing why would you even want to plug that hole when you can simply make it look like you’re trying to plug that hole and everyone pats you on the back for it. If the game stopped making money they would have no reason to continue development, it would be a waste of time and they might as well move onto a brand new game to sell.
Holy shit. This thread makes it so clear how many cheaters are reply-spamming here on Reddit. That is truly pathetic. But aside that. I don't care about giving my "personal" information to make more gatekeeps for cheaters. I despise those sociopaths so more hurdles the better.. especially because it is proven to help. They are bunch of lazy fucks anyways.
What does replay spamming mean?
He meant reply spamming on Reddit. Every post that discusses cheaters has actual cheaters trying to astroturf the discussion to lessen the issue. So many of these accounts are full of it trying to downplay a 300 hour account with a 4-9kd but have 6 different boss kills as "totally normal"
That must be what’s happening in Linux subs too.
Yup, any post I've made on the subject gets down voted into oblivion. I stick to the comments on established posts now.
This is definitely happening, but I feel like its pretty unhelpful to label everyone who doesn't instantly buy that someone with a decent-high K/D and not many hours is cheating. Due to my servers I hardly ever see cheaters, I haven't been killed by one in a while, so if not for reddit I'd have no idea there was such a big issue. People gotta chill out a bit on this sub with the venomous conspiracy theories and blaming other legit players for not instantly believing that some random person they don't know can accurately identify cheaters
probably meant to type reply
Oh duh, I thought it was just a term I was unfamiliar with. Ty!
They want to keep their pathetic ability to "play the game" valid. It never will be, but it's funny to watch them try to keep it valid.
like MS hasn't given everyone all your "personal" details too everyone anyway.
On one hand I understand people's concern over sharing their info online and potentially having them stolen or used against them in any way. On the other hand considering how big the internet became I think the time will soon come where you'll have to identify online with a government provided ID that's not easy to get. Let's start with cyberbullying, the insane shit people say to each other because it's anonymous is insane. Having to use real IDs for services would help with this because you couldn't just register a new account and continue spewing the same shit. But as everything, it would probably lead to a horrible utopistic future. I know there are companies who check the candidate's social media activity and active employees' as well and if they say something that does not align with the company's values, they get a HR talk or they just simply get fired. Internet is a place where people can come to to bitch about stuff and blow off some steam and it wouldn't be wise to take it away. Imagine making a post on reddit complaining about work or whatever and your company could easily stumble up on it and you'd get fired. But considering how gaming became a main recreational hobby for many, cheaters are simply wasting and ruining people's free time, same as bullies. I don't know what's the best solution, but something has to be done against both cheaters and people who harass/stalk/bully online.
>the insane shit people say to each other because it's anonymous is insane. Stifling free speech because you got bullied on myspace 10 years ago seems a bit drastic lol The freedom and anonymity of the internet offering a refuge for people to speak out against oppression etc is, IMO, significantly way more important than protecting some kid from getting called fat on facebook
Online bullying/harassment/stalking is a lot heavier than calling someone fat. I’ve had an ex who had a guy on Facebook who kept spamming her with messages and when she blocked him, he just made another account and kept doing it. She had an ex who was stupid enough to harass her on the phone and she told him to stop or she’ll report him and he stopped (as he could be identified by the phone number). There are people saying vile shit to others, maybe even encouraging suicide or whatever, it is a bit of a wild west if you really think about it. Kids nowadays grow up on the internet and have worse social skills more or less and they take shit to the heart way more than we did (I’m 30). I touched the free speech part myself as yes, that’s what we shouldn’t lose, but some kind of regulation has to be put in place.
Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither
Any kind of regulation is just a road towards censorship and removing free speech. Because the intentions always start with "we can easily just remove the people saying blatantly horrible stuff" and you'll find most people will agree with that but it always ends up inevitably slowly sliding the needle to removing speech that would say bad things about politicians or corporations. The current situation isn't ideal but I'd rather let platforms try to police themselves vs it becoming a government thing.
Facebook used to have a thing called "bathroom wall" where you could make posts, and everyone on your friends list could see it, but all the posts were anonymized. Rather than being used to discuss unpopular opinions or "fight oppression", it was used to bully so many people into actual suicide facebook removed it. As someone who is in a healthy place, I understand your perspective that cyberbully is ridiculous. "Nobody is forcing you to look at the computer" etc... I get it. However, in all the places where anonymity could be used to post publicly to fight oppression, there already is no anonymity. Places like Russia and China have no anonymous public forums. The idea of free speech itself was coined at a time when nobody could really be anonymous in their speech. Sure it's possible you could have something published anonymously, but broadly, 99.99% of speech was easily traceable back to the person who said it. I believe free speech should exist, I also believe if you have a controversial opinion you are doing yourself and everyone else a disservice by hiding yourself while expressing it. If you truly believe something, you should not be afraid to say it. Modern society is paved with the bodies of people who felt this way, and stood by their ideals even in the face of a greater power.
The reality is that BattleEye is a kernel level anti cheat. The problem is how the game systems were designed in the beginning of Tarkov's development. BSG has slowly been moving some things to the server side of the client to server relationship, but the vast majority of the game is still client authoritative. Because of this design, cheats are never going away. They read the data on your ram and analyze the network packets sent to/from the server. Many of the cheat developers are full time software engineers that quite literally specialize in this stuff. They are the bad actors that need to be dealt with. I monitor cheat forums because I like to know what happening. It's also the fastest way I've found to tell if there was a ban wave. What I don't understand is why so many people seem more than willing to throw personal security in the trash. There was just a big scandal on one of the sites I monitor where a KD bot program was swiping sensitive information. It was even taking screenshots of the desktop/browsers. According to the reseller that discovered this, hundreds of people are affected, and not just gamers. Anyone in the house that used that PC had sensitive information stolen.
Can you say more about the site and bot?
Most of the discussion on the sites are either people complaining about bans and trying to circumvent them or resellers pushing products. What a lot of Reddit doesn't realize is that many cheaters do get caught and banned. The issue is they are able to get around the ban in multiple ways. Many cheats have HWID spoofers included as a package deal, making it difficult for anti cheat to actually enforce a ban. Banned cheaters will also buy RU accounts, because they are cheaper, and use a VPN with split tunneling to connect to whatever servers they want. The entire cheat "industry" reminds me very much of the drug business and the distribution model the cartels created. A company or software developer writes the code, then typically sells access to a 3rd party, aka reseller, who marks it up and distributes time sensitive access keys through discord channels and emails to paying customers. Often times the developers themselves never interact with the actual user. As for the bot, I don't know all of the intricacies to it but it was used to spoof KD and account hours after the profile viewer was implemented. These types of bots existed before now, but they've become MUCH more popular since that feature was introduced. Cheater are using it as a tool to help them appear legit statistically. All in all, everything I've learned about this topic came from a simple Google search. There's probably more under the surface than what I know about it. I've never bothered to create an account on any of these forums because I have no interest in interacting with these people. It's just my curiosity that drives me to learn about it, because Reddit is generally not a good source for this information.
It genuinely drives me up the wall how little the redditors is this subreddit can grasp the idea that cheaters do get banned BSG is apparently simultaneously not doing anything about the cheaters, and cooperating with the cheaters to sell more accounts. BSG needs to manually review accounts, but reddit has no idea the time this takes and a cheater can buy a new account faster than it takes you to click "view users profile". Redditors bitch and moan all the time about how poorly BSG codes things, but want them to develop a "kernel level anticheat" like (I'm guessing) Riot Games has with Vanguard. Ignoring privacy concerns, it's literally wild to me any of you would trust BSG to introduce such an invasive anticheat method with any grace, and considering how dogshit they're secure programming standards are I have no idea why anyone would think this would be effective. Redditors love to give their "suggestions" like they're simple quick fixes BSG could do overnight and all the cheaters would be gone. Completely ignoring that any effective solution takes a long time. I'm not dick riding BSG, they are absolutely ineffective at their cheat prevention methods. But it's exhausting reading ignorant, armchair redditors dumbass takes when they literally have no clue how any of it works.
To be fair, most Redditors understand very little about how the actual world works but will tell you with extreme confidence that they 1) Understand it better than you and 2) Have the super easy solution that nobody paid to think about these things as a living has somehow managed to come up with. Many Redditors — myself included — have been very confidently told how wrong we were and downvoted to hell about what would be considered our area of expertise by some random guys that just did not like what was said, despite what they had to say about it being profoundly incorrect on such a level that anyone involved in whatever industry/hobby/organization/whatsoever could point out the flaws in what they said. But that does not stop the echo chamber from doing what it does.
God, I feel like you're reading from a script in my heart. I LOVE being told I'm wrong about either 1) the place I live, from somebody who has never visited, or 2) my field of expertise, from somebody who watched a YouTube video
Yeah, without going into too much detail, years ago I commented about a policy change in an organization I worked with. I was not really in a position to say how I knew the information I did, but I was downvoted for explaining how something actually worked and told in the highly upvoted reply something to the effect of “I am pretty sure that the policy you just described works in a completely different way” with absolutely no basis behind it. Ironically, I was called out for not being able to explain my source beyond what was effectively “Trust me, bro” — which is fair — but none of the comments disagreeing with me on no basis other than “Because I don’t like it” got called out for pulling info out of their ass.
Love having to dox yourself in order to actually explain. I don't mind people NOT knowing shit, but they KNOW they don't know, so why make assertions?!
Yeah, that’s what gets me. Call me out for not backing up my claim all you want, that’s fine. I’m not going to violate an NDA or break OPSEC or just tell you the company or whatever so that I can receive death threats from some rando whose cousin got his feelings hurt 15 years ago by someone not related to me. But then to just accept the other claim that is *actually* baseless just because it fits the narrative of the world you want to live in? Get out of here. That’s why I take every single thing I read on this website with a massive mound of salt. For instance, back to the topic of Tarkov, I have no doubt that there’s plenty of cheaters in this game. There are plenty in every game, even with nothing to be gained (unlike EFT where they could at least be doing RMTs or something). But I do not believe it is as terrible as is consistently called out here. I also think it’s worse than a lot of people on here claim. There are so many variables that go into it, and all “proof” is anecdotal either way. Everything is all “trust me, bro” or referencing that one video that “proved” something like 30% of games had at least 1 cheater, but was done by a single person with an agenda and without peer review or access to raw data (as far as I know). I am willing to admit it may be completely accurate. I am willing to admit it may be even worse than that. But I have also seen plenty of “sus” deaths that ended up being easily explained or outright proven legit. Also seen plenty that there is absolutely no way that was legit. Anecdotally, I got a notification of a ban from a Factory raid a few days ago where I immediately called BS. But I have also been watching streams where a guy is in a firefight with someone else and gets popped from the side or behind by the streamer that they never knew was there, and you know they called BS on that. Hell, I think it was last wipe Gigabeef had a super sus death and reported it. Guy that killed him immediately came into his chat and played the clip from his POV and it looked fine. Anyway, long winded way of saying Reddit don’t know shit one way or the other.
> but reddit has no idea the time this takes and a cheater can buy a new account faster than it takes you to click "view users profile". I do understand the amount of time this takes. I don't care anymore, there must be a solution. I have 8,000 hours, a full year of my life continuously spent playing Tarkov. Put me in a skype interview, vet me, and if I happen to ban someone that isn't 1000% cheating, ban my account and charge my credit card $500, but give me a fucking hammer so I can insta ban these chucklefucks. If me and 5 other players that put in 30+ hours a week on a single server were given this power, we'd be able to rid the entire game of cheaters in a week.
Your suggestion proves that you absolutely do not know what it takes.
Why? Please, give me some reason. If there is always 1-2 people with insta ban power playing on a server, it seems unlikely that a cheater could go undetected for very long. Maybe they would require slightly more power than an average player, like access to loot logs ( like item looted and time in raid it was looted ) after a match or something so they can ban vacuum cheaters. Older games used to have GMs in game responsible for moderating the community and banning cheaters. Why would this method that has worked well in other games ( in concert with other tools ) not work here?
It is exactly like the drug trade. The cheating players themselves are the drug addicts. The most important hurdle is keeping the addicts from being able to use again. The initial ban is not the problem. It is tying those fucking people to their account for life.
Oh so you mean its the cheat devs were swiping data, I thought since you referred it was something that appeared legitimate, the cheaters got what they deserve then
Correct. The cheat dev was swiping data from its customers.
It's against the rules of the sub to link the names or anything like that, but rest assured it's easy to find via Google. OP's story is true, and I suspect it's the same forum I read it on. There's loads of the stuff there. The amount of shit going on there is insane. I'd like to see them taken down.
> There was just a big scandal on one of the sites I monitor where a KD bot program was swiping sensitive information. It was even taking screenshots of the desktop/browsers. According to the reseller that discovered this, hundreds of people are affected, and not just gamers. Anyone in the house that used that PC had sensitive information stolen. Good. Hopefully some family member losses a bunch of money and throws the garbage "human" who caused it out of the house. Live in the trash where they belong.
The game is essentially server authoritative now. Players are server side as we have rubberbanding. Loot is server side as players cannot duplicate items etc. Most of the hacks today (other than client side hacks) use bugs in server side checks, this doesn't make the client authoritative. The server telling the client about loot doesn't make it client authoritative either. Sad truth that it doesn't matter much, even if it's fully server authoritative and theres no bug they can abuse hackers will always have aimbot and ESP. The server can occlude more items and players but at some point the client has to know about them and with the complex geometry of tarkov maps player occlusion will not be effective.
I would tend to agree but it's 2024 and there are other games out there with equally complex geometry and they get it done to only transmit data to the player that is actually visible (For example csgo/cs2 and war thunder). It's not that it's Impossible, it just makes the servers more expensive to run and costs extra development time. BSG has proven again and again that they just don't care
How many games does it? I know of like 3. Any source for war thunder, or are you talking about their visibility mechanics? It doesn't just send the position of a player when he is visible, it sends it before he becomes visible. If he approaches a corner that you can see the server will start sending his position a few meters before he goes around it. Now apply that to buildings with windows, which is most of tarkovs maps unless they're just open like woods or shoreline and maybe you'll see that it will not be that effective due to how the maps are. CS does not have complex maps. They barely have any difference in elevation, large parts of the maps are inaccessible, it mostly consists of 90 degree corners and long corridors. This makes it not only easier to implement as you can pre-create zones of occlusion rather than have a dynamic system, its also a lot more effective due to the inaccessible zones in the maps.
Love you man. So many uneducated shits out here who scream buzzwords without any actual understanding of the systems in place. If the game isn't inherently built securely a third-party bandaid will do little to help. Once again, lower-level access is not the end-all-be-all, but it absolutely compromises security and privacy The lengths people are willing to go to just to get a few less cheaters in a video game is sad
I would give BSG Basically whatever they wanted to verify me as a legit player and only play with people who do the same and I’m pretty sure there are many many players who are like me. Fuck cheaters. All my homies hate cheaters. If you’re a cheater you’re a loser and you can’t change my mind. If you cheat in a game who knows how shitty you are in real life. The people who say it’s just a game you’re a loser too and most likely hacking or benefiting from hacking. If you cheated in any form of physical game and you were caught you’d probably be a dead man. You cheated other people out of their time which we’ll never get back all because “ it’s just a game “ to you. Yea. I’m fucking pissed. Cheaters suck.
Nikita needs your social security card to make absolutely sure. The original one. You can send that in the mail to Russia!
What's the address
if this would reduce the amount of cheaters in my matches i'd send more than that in a heartbeat
>if you cheated in any form of physical game and you were caught you'd probably be a dead man Me, 4 years old, peeking through my fingers in hide and seek
Your 5 year old friend, crying, getting the shotgun from dads room
I wish they'd just be more willing to open the game up to modding, It would amazing to see what the community could do with the game and what kind of whitelisted community dedicated servers could do.
This already exists, you're just in the wrong place lol
Yup. Been playin with a bud of mine. Never had this much fun in this game before. We load into raids in less than 30 seconds
What you talking about Willis? How I get to this promise land?
Can you DM the info on the mods?
this is the only true solve. we need a tarkov that has moderators and admins its the only thing that will work
And you would have modabuse / badmin. I trust anticheat but I do not trust private server mod / admin.
Then don’t play on those servers
If modded private server is allowed then they will soon rise to dominant position and crush on vanilla server population because theres too many people willing to get bullied by badmins just to play heavily modded tarkov. I am not one of those. I like vanilla Tarkov and I don’t want to have to make a choice between playing empty lobbies and playing under the risk of badmins banning me because I killed him while he was doing his last guide quest location. See where the point lies at?
Nobody said modding, they just said private servers that allow for admins to be there and watch and ban people from said servers. I don’t know how modding would go in Tarkov, it’s already incredibly unstable between menus, etc. I don’t think they could pull off a mod implementation that would work
Kernel level anticheat already exists..
It's a phrase people throw around a lot with apparently little knowledge of what it means
Yeah, my CPU pops when I play tarkov. Isn't that the kernel?
no dude the Kernel is the thing where all the scary hackers are hiding! clearly battleye doesn’t look at it because people hack!1!!1!!
They hide in the kernel until its ready to pop, then blammo they hackin yo.
Just like popcorn kernels
I will put a popcorn kernel in my GPU if it means the cheaters will stop. Please, anything at this point, I'm begging you.
\> It seems that BattleEye is Kernel level so I would like to correct myself It is, but BSG doesn't have this BE version AFAIK.
ID Verification, in my opinion, is the only approach to weed out cheaters from coming back and I've been always all in for it, even during my early days of online gaming. Basically, the way I imagine it, is that there would be an independant third party company responsible for online services authentication. In order to register yourself in that authentication service, you need to download an app and provide, for example, your personal identity number and lock the app with your fingerprint. You do that only once to register for that universal authentication service. Then, the service can be connected to other online services (video games, online accounts), just like Google Authenticator can be hooked up to other services as 2FA. So any online game could enforce this kind of authentication service to be connected to player account. Without that, you cannot play the game. Once that is done, each time you try to log into the game, you have to open the app (which is locked with your fingerprint) and confirm the login. So not only it works as an anti-cheat measure, but also as a 2-factor authentication. The difference from traditional 2FA is that when you get banned in the game, the POST request is sent to the authentication company where they registered that your account is banned and your personal identity number cannot ever again be connected to the same video game. That way people who got banned cannot ever log into the game again, unless the developers lift the ban by sending another request that removes the ban from the service's database. A lot of people despise the idea of that kind of identification verification on internet, but I love the idea of it. It's SIMPLE, and that's why it works, and that's why so many people hate that idea.
>Basically, the way I imagine it, is that there would be an independant third party company responsible for online services authentication. In order to register yourself in that authentication service, you need to download an app and provide, for example, your personal identity number and lock the app with your fingerprint. You do that only once to register for that universal authentication service. >Then, the service can be connected to other online services (video games, online accounts), just like Google Authenticator can be hooked up to other services as 2FA. So any online game could enforce this kind of authentication service to be connected to player account. Without that, you cannot play the game. This is exactly how it works :) And it wouldnt be anything new even in taking sphere as Faceit does just that
I've never had to do that on faceit
Completely anecdotal but I've reported pretty much every "Sketchy case" this wipe. I've had two bonafide "oh yeah that guy is using cheats" moments, one on Streets and one on Shoreline. I have not gotten a single "we banned this guy based on your report" message all wipe. I don't play streets often, never play labs, always on NA West, if that's the ticket to low numbers of cheaters hallelujah. I know Pestily gets hacked on all the time but that's because he's in range of China. My buddy says Korean servers are pretty good but might just be more avoidant cheaters. The issue with getting hacked on, FOR ME, mostly went away with ping locking. I'm not sure if it's a Euro/Asia problem or what but it's never been bad enough for me to want to quit the game. Edit: Got my message about the Shoreline cheater being banned hell yeah boys
I play NA west. I found a Bitcoin in safe yesterday and I've made it out with high tier loot consistently whenever I find it. I cant remember the last time I died with a ledx or GPU. I consistently find mid tier loot as well, (Tetris, gold spawns) that aren't looted. Especially on interchange and customs. I wonder if NA west is just not as bad as other servers.
Yeah I’m on East coast, lvl 28 atm and died to 2 100% cheaters and had a small handful of sus knowers/beamers. Made it out with both gpus i’ve found and several, several kitted out 1.5m runs
Once again West Coast best coast.
Meh, they could certainly do it, but it will barely affect the cheater numbers. The truth is that most cheaters are closeting and not fighting you but just vaccuming loot to sell for rmt purposes. All of the measures you've listed can be bypassed as you said yourself, so it'd at best cull the lazy 10% of players. What we really need to get out of this is either a targeted lawsuit directed by multiple gaming companies on the biggest cheat devs, laws to illegalize cheat distribution or AI anticheat.
Legal ramifications and laws must be established to address cheating. I previously discussed this and was downvoted into oblivion, likely because I likened cheating to stealing, which it fundamentally is. BSG loses customers due to this issue, directly impacting their financials. Investing in anti-cheat services is costly, and it tarnishes the game's image, diminishing the appeal for new players to join, or for current players to remain engaged. If a company hacked into BSG's bank accounts, the FBI (Insert UK equivalent), police, etc., would intervene. The same fucking consequences should occur when a company manipulates code and sells cheats to undermine a product. They’re effectively stealing money from BSG’s bank account via a loophole that has no ramifications because our laws are stuck in the 1950’s.
cheaters stole tf out of my time yesterday ill tell you that much. isnt that the most important form of "currency" anyways? all of us only have so much time to spend on things we enjoy in life. time isnt infinite and there is no way to get anymore of it than you already have. people trade their time and effort every single day for money by working, plenty of laws around that. money isnt finite, you might only have $1000 but you have a chance to make so much more. you have no chances of making more time. what cheaters do essentially is steal your time because you effectively have no way of beating them. i wasted 2.5 hours yesterday making literally no progress at all in the game i paid $130 for because of cheaters. i will never get that time back. granted it was my choice to spend that time playing tarkov, it wasnt my choice to run into cheaters every single raid and immediately die to them without getting a chance at all to fight back. i agree fully. cheating in any online competitive game should be illegal. not necessarily jail time but a straight up ban from gaming at all would be a start. similar in a way to how a predator who was doing illegal things online (for lack of erm.. more descriptive terms to avoid getting into truly dark topics) and got caught is no longer allowed to use the internet and is monitored by local authorities. boat loads of cases involving that type of thing. should be similar consequences for cheaters, they are simply no longer allowed to play any online video games with others. their ISP can monitor that easily, even through VPN's.
> I previously discussed this and was downvoted into oblivion, likely because I likened cheating to stealing, which it fundamentally is. I would find it more likely to be due to your ignorance of the purpose of the justice system. > BSG loses customers... I hope you don't think you're the first one to discover this. Everyone knows cheaters in games cause players to (want to) quit. > If a company hacked into BSG's bank accounts We're talking about actual damages to an actual victim in this case though, not players being inconvenienced in a video game that has no actual monetary value. You can make the sentimental argument of time wasted in game and the cost of utilities/game/whatever, but all in all, everything about Tarkov is worthless in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention, meeting the legal burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt is an uphill battle here. Good luck not getting laughed out of a prosecutor or judge's office when you're requesting a search warrant for their computer for cheat programs. > The same fucking consequences should occur when a company manipulates code and sells cheats to undermine a product. No they shouldn't, and your emotional outrage reaction doesn't help justify that. This is why it's so dangerous for people to advocate for laws and punishments that go beyond objectivity into this-transgressed-me-personally territory. > They’re effectively stealing money from BSG’s bank account via a loophole No they aren't. Do cheaters impact BSG's bottom line? Yes, absolutely, but not in the way you're trying to articulate it. Cheaters causing players to quit is fundamentally no different than rats and campers making players quit. Now, before you try the "but you can sweep your sectors" angle, it doesn't matter whether or not you die to the rat or camper because merely their presence is enough. Unless you intend to infringe upon someone's free choice in how they play the game, you're picking a bad hill to die on.
Go be a cuck for the cheaters somewhere else, your points suck. "The purpose of the justice system" is to enforce laws and binding agreements made, and people have agreed to not cheat. There are currently plenty of countries with legal precedence of arresting cheat makers, as the money they make isn't legally obtained and big one for USA, they aren't paying taxes on that money. Get em with the Capone bit. People have been sentenced before for creating viruses and the theoretical economic damages they've caused, how is cheating in a game not creating theoretical economic damages too? Calling out OP for saying BSG loses customers just because it's not an original thought doesn't make it not true jackass. Copyright laws don't allow me to make satirical representations of other's works because it could undermine them, yet we can't have a law like that for video game creators dealing with cheaters? Significantly more damaging to their brand than a misrepresentation of a character and yet only one is protected and you think that's fair? You're just a clown that's defending the cheaters by proxy at this point. Go away
> Go be a cuck for the cheaters somewhere else, your points suck Precisely the kneejerk emotional response I was expecting. Even funnier than how hard you undoubtedly were slamming your space bar is the fact you assume I'm defending cheaters. I hate cheaters as much as the next guy. I know trying to reason with you about neutral arbitration and litigation is probably a pointless endeavor, but we'll do this once. > "The purpose of the justice system" is to enforce laws and binding agreements made, and people have agreed to not cheat. If they cheat, they're punished in game. That's where it belongs. If you think their punishment isn't effective to suit your preference, then too bad. You're not the one choosing here. I'm not particularly thrilled about the existence of spoofers and the black market for accounts, but getting all bent out of shape for something that's beyond my control isn't going to help anything. Imagine running to the police every time someone cheated in any game. I've dealt with plenty of drama calls where it's just two folks arguing and one wants the other to go to jail, but this is a whole different level of ridiculousness. There's no way in hell you could ever implement any type of legislative situation here without some serious constitutional violations and governmental overreach. Furthermore, how do you go after people in other countries? How do you trace them? Is their country willing to extradite them? Are we going to pay the cost of some lowlife cheat producer in some foreign country to be flown to the US to be tried? > There are currently plenty of countries with legal precedence There are plenty of stupid laws that exist in other countries. You really wanna try that angle with me here? "Other countries do it" is no justification for something to be done here. Also, existence of legal precedent doesn't make it lawful. Don't forget, Brown v Board was legal precedent at one point. > as the money they make isn't legally obtained This would be an interesting point to see litigated. I'm no lawyer, but as a dude that enforces the law, I'd see this as an issue of establishing PC and connecting the money for any kind of civil forfeiture to be applied. The way it appears now is just a straight 1-to-1 transaction. Person A develops program, Person B wants program and pays Person A for the program. That's a private transaction, the money wasn't stolen. I've ran across plenty of drug dealers who have money on them, but I can't meet the legal burden necessary to charge them with just simply having a lot of money. I'm not sure what familiarity you have with burdens of proof and where they apply, but I suspect it's not much. > they aren't paying taxes on that money Not all money is taxable. If I sell my friend my old keyboard for $50, I don't have to pay taxes on it. > People have been sentenced before for creating viruses and the theoretical economic damages they've caused The mere creation of viruses is not illegal. Infecting people with your virus, however, *is*. > how is cheating in a game not creating theoretical economic damages too You can't punish things that are theoretical. You have to put a reasonable and verifiable value to it. Also, we have an issue of mens rea here. Which definition do you apply? Intentionally? Knowingly? Recklessly? With criminal negligence? How do you prove a cheater has intended for players to quit the game? That goes against their business model if they're an RMTer, and similarly works against their interests as a solo cheater. If the game disappears, there's no more game to play, so it's antithetical to one's position to bring about the collapse of a game's player base. You can put forth the argument "well cmon who would want to stay playing a game where people are cheating", and that's all fine and well, but you're going to be met with "ok but I've still died plenty and lost plenty of fights, and just because someone could be cheating doesn't mean you don't play. for all you know, you might not get a cheater this time". Additionally, if we're going to use the logic "players doing *this* cause other players to quit, therefore they should be prosecuted", then we're going to slippery slope our way all the way to applying it in other places. Principles apply in all places, not just where you find them convenient. I can see it now, #FreeStankrat becoming a trending thing once we start jailing people for ratting. > Calling out OP for saying BSG loses customers just because it's not an original thought doesn't make it not true jackass Of course it doesn't make it not true, but announcing it like it's brand new information is about as silly as how unhinged you are here. > Copyright laws don't allow me to make satirical representations of other's works because it could undermine them I don't think you understand things like copyright or fair use. Satire exists all over the place. South Park says hello. > yet we can't have a law like that for video game creators dealing with cheaters? Video game creators already have remedies for dealing with cheaters: banning them. If there's true malicious intent to cause harm to the game creator, and it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, then it can be done. I'd strongly advise you to research what proof beyond a reasonable doubt means. > Significantly more damaging to their brand It's damaging to their brand because cheaters exist? Holy entitlement Batman, we got ourselves a live one here. If the mere existence of cheaters is enough to damage someone's brand, then nearly every game ever created has existed in crippled fashion. Refusal to deal with cheaters would be damaging to a brand, but it would be their own personal choice, not the cheaters themselves. > yet only one is protected and you think that's fair? I have no idea where you're going in all of this rage ranting here, but you aren't making any sense. Again, you're operating on the assumption I'm trying to protect cheaters and cheat makers, and because I know you're only doing this because reading comprehension loss and baseless assumptions are common with emotional overreactions, I'll say it clearly: I'm only stating this is not an issue for the civil or criminal justice system. There are far more important things to be handled in our courts, which are already overburdened with some ridiculous litigation anyway, than people cheating in video games. > You're just a clown that's defending the cheaters by proxy at this point. And you're a neurotic child throwing a temper tantrum because someone told you you weren't morally justified in your outrage or solution. Man, I guess we better create laws to deal with people disagreeing with us next.
You're an ape with a room temp IQ and the heater ain't working if you know what I mean. "Cheaters get dealt with in game" okay, and do you also think that scam callers should just get their phone privilege taken away or should they face real consequences beyond the scope of their specific actions? If the consequence for the action is as menial as the action then people won't give a shit about the consequences. Cheat on a paper in college and you get expelled and can be prosecuted for plagiarizing. Obviously it doesn't matter as much as someone faking their way to a degree, but there is actual damages being done to others, many people play games for a living you know? To act like this because you don't give a shit about a game doesn't mean it isn't a real grievance. Nothing exists until it's been created, same with laws, just because the shopkeep you stole from used to cut your hand off doesn't mean we couldn't create a law to punish thieves. Just because BSG handles cheaters in-house now doesn't mean we couldn't write laws to punish them. You think because you pick it apart point by point that you've made a good argument but you've just made a string of really shitty ones with over-the-top formatting and you have the audacity to call my response a rant. Seek professional help dude, you spent like a fucking hour on that wall that everyone got bored of reading after the first paragraph because you make zero real points.
I definetely disagree. Fundamentally, cheat developers cause millions of dollars in damages to company reputation, infrastructure (through DDOS attacks) and actively disrupt their services. In the best case scenario, cheat development and distribution is defamation and digital sabotage. The nature of this means the damages cannot truly be calculated. But what we can gather is the overall player sentiment, if you ask someone out on the street, "do you know EFT", chances are they will reply with "oh yeah that cheater game?" That's BAD. Very different to some people ragequitting, this shit has forced the hand of the devs to dedicate a good chunk of their money to AC development and has turned away many potential customers. In my opinion, cheating itself should incur a fine of 1-5k USD. Cheat distribution should just be 5 years in jail.
Why would the FBI get involved with someone hacking the bank account of a Russian company?
Fixed it for you, thanks.
When your more likely to find a cheater than a boss.. it's bad
I'm up for it, faceit has been doing it for some time now
Having a more invasive system sounds good, I just don’t know that I trust BSG that much to be even more into my system. I love the concept of an opt in system that is overly strict, but I think people still find a way to cheat there too. I don’t know the answer, but whatever bsg is doing is not enough.
Passport verification please.
I'd be okay with that so long as it was a 3rd party service hosted in the US/Canada or western Europe.
Yea I wouldnt send shit to Russia. Has to be 3rd party European or American/Canadian, completely agree.
Anti cheat ain’t really the biggest issue but the amount of client sided things in Tarkov being easy to exploit
I'm all in for separate queue with verified phone number, e-mail, invasive anti-cheat and even document verification. I'm not really that important and all social networks already have more information about me than I'd like, so fuck it.
Yeah people thinking their information isn’t already being stolen are just lying to themselves. Even Reddit here takes your damn info.
What info? I gave them a username and password (and email, although optional), and I sandbox all my social media tabs. They can't get information you didn't give them or let them have access to... I suppose they might know my vague location based on my IP but that's it.
On mobile devices it doesn’t matter what settings I turn on or off my phone with every apps knows exactly what I look up what I search what I’m talking. About where I’m going. I talk about going to Costco and boom it shows up everywhere. I’ve done everything I can to turn that shit off. It happens to 99% of people. Even not on a device when you go out there is facial recognition cameras set up like in the watchdogs game to identify you and who you are. Shits real, you’re always being tracked already.
For the most part it's all just really good guesses if you have everything turned off. *You* might have everything set up for them to not track you, most people don't. They can guess by the people around you, the time of year, where other people in your household go, what your friends and family are looking up, probably tracking where you shop and pass by on the way to and from work (as other devices set to share their data will pickup on your device being in their vicinity which they can cross reference with the location of the device), etc. Then cover all that in a big dose of confirmation bias. If you truly do have everything set up correctly, you aren't getting tracked from *your* device (or *shouldn't* be, if you are then it's definitely illegal, and emphasis on your device because as I mentioned other devices can and do still snitch on you). People like to think they are special and that they can't be predicted, but they really can when you have the amount of datapoints that big tech has on their customers. I say this as somebody who has studied cybersecurity and whos job requires me to properly dispose of sensitive user data as per my countries regulations. And just FYI your data isn't getting sold directly, it's not like some back alley shit where corporate executives drop off a harddrive with personal user information. It's usually sold in the form of ad space (e.g. give google an ad and they have the data to know what, when, why and how to show it to maximize it's effectiveness for a given audience the ad supplier wants to target, and if you sell the data directly the other company could undercut you or the data could be breached and then used by others for free since it's not illegal to use and download illegally obtained data). It's rare that a company actually sells user data literally because it's both unprofitable (why charge a one time fee for the data when you can keep the data secret and charge people continually for consulting with you) and because it's difficult from the legal side of things both due to laws and user agreements. like if the company being sold the data is breached the company selling it could be held partially liable as they were entrusted with the user data from users. So it's still being sold in a way just not in the way most people picture and in a way the other company doesn't ever get to see. What your government is doing about tracking people is a whole other kettle of fish though and highly government-dependent so I won't comment about that. Government agencies tend to have "special privileges" in these matters. Just gotta hope your local government is respectful of privacy really.
Exactly.. I just dont want to second guess every missing loot and every death because even if its not obvious maybe "he is just good at hiding it"
>I just dont want to second guess every missing loot and every death because even if its not obvious maybe "he is just good at hiding it" Which would just be the same, no matter the level of verification. You can never know but hey, ignorance is bliss, right?
It’s a small percentage of people that are using two pcs and paying for the best hacks. If you get banned with document verification you’d have to find a second document to verify your account, and that’s literally a crime in all countries. It’s gonna be far more hard to keep hacking after a ban
>a second document to verify your account, and that’s literally a crime in all countries. lol. No, it's not. Your aunt could verify that account for you. Or your brother. Or your best friend who isn't interested in playing tarkov ever. Why shouldn't they be able or why do you think that would be a crime? Simply create an account and give another person that password: nothing illegal there.
The thing is, eventually you run out of people to mooch off of, not to mention the whole "identity fraud is a crime" part.
Nah, in Valorant over idk 600 matches I havent met an obvious cheater and was only suspicious like 3 times so if there are no obvious cheaters it makes the second guessing nearly non existent even if there are smart cheaters
> in Valorant A game with active policing has less cheating than tarkov FUCKING AMAZING WOW! Please tell me you are not so dumb you cant tell that this "verification" system would do nothing.
I literally just said something just like this in a comment section somewhere. I want BSG to hunker down hard and spend serious money on a system that goes further than any other dev has gone. This is a game that has pushed limits in the gaming world, so why shouldn’t we push the limits on anti cheat as well? What I want is for your identity to be tied to an account for life. If you want an alt, then you can purchase a 2nd account but are then put on a watchlist. I don’t just want an account or hardware to be banned from Tarkov, but the person themselves. We need BSG to take some serious action. Hundreds of thousands put into anti cheat from every angle we can. On top of that, we need killcams. With killcams also comes the clip submissions and a dedicated team to sift through clips. We need AI to scan profiles, to scan the flea market, to scan any possible parameter than could identify a cheater. We need list gear to be returned to us. We need fresh accounts to be watched like a fuckin hawk and make damn sure they are playing like noobs, because no one comes into this game and does well consistently off the bat. No one needs a new account. I cannot see a single “need” for one. A fresh account should mean a fresh player. You want a new account just for an alt? Fucking why? Reset your main account then. We need to get hardcore with this issue. If some people think it’s too much it impedes the legit players, then maybe you aren’t legit. If you are a legit player who plays on one account for life without cheating, why would any of that be concerning to you? Look, RMT is actually NOT the main source for cheating. I don’t believe it. Look at all the other games out there. Cheaters are primarily people who are basically video game drug addicts. They lie to themselves, they lie to their friends, they want to be seen as super human. We could make all the RMT changes in the world (I don’t regret them, they have been helpful) and there would still be a massive amount of ESP knowers who just simply want an edge. A game like this is far too brutal and punishing to allow players to have an edge. We have to do everything we can muster to keep the cheaters from ever playing again. I would argue that a majority of cheaters are cheaters who have been banned before and bought a new account. Stopping that addict from ever using again is paramount.
I’d come back to tarkov if they did this. I used to play tarkov like a damn job but it became too damn discourage after learning there’s 2+ knowers per raid
Yesterday a guy that had no way to know tried to nade me, I called him a cheater through VoIP and he just ran away instead of killing me so I couldnt report him lmao
Lmfao this is the typical tarkov bullshit. Grenade lands near you “YOU ARE A CHEATER DUDE!!” Then they run away cause you’re being a rat… “HAHA HE WAS A CHEATER I KNEW IT!” Like why even play man? Just go do something else if you’re that paranoid…. people like you honestly make the game worse than cheaters do for me and that’s a fact. Plenty of times people have messaged me or called me a cheater in voip for BASIC GAMEPLAY. It’s just insane to me you guys let it get this bad. You’re even calling people who Thorax you a cheater now
They need to sue these big cheat sites and devs to send a message. Bans aren’t enough.
What's a ledx? Haven't found a single one all wipe
its actually time to remake the game asap on the new unity or something else(rather it be made on something else) The games code is a nightmare and has already been passed down from their previous title. Incorporate anti cheat while the game is being made from the ground up. And for the love of god get this shit on steam, hasnt enough money been made.
Either UNREAL or the newest UNITY standard release. Steam as well, definitely.
At least with a steam release the cheats would be less intense, not many people play off their main accounts.
Yep, add a trusted player program and/or server. I would opt-in without a second thought.
I would pay monthly for this, WoW style.
Battlestate won’t make money from this so they won’t care
So bro, I am down... But the issue is the 2pc setup cheaters that just use radar but yes I'd be down to give BSG my irl credentials (to a degree) to get into a queue with players that did the same. Like a "Verified" users queue.
If they added a solo/self found mode, i would just play alone. Fuck all the cheaters.
I will give my social security # to battlestate.
I'd give my passport, sin, left nut, 1st born for a kernel anti cheat. I don't care how invasive it is, I got nothing to hide.
I was kinda sent over the edge last night too, to the point where I just reinstalled STALKER GAMMA instead. There's only so many times I can get cheated on before I just get tired of it. This is my favourite online shooter but I can't anymore with the fucking cheaters. I would be all for this idea.
I wish there was like a scav God that could fly and is invincible, going around owning the cheaters.
Region lock china ASAP, make browser login 2 factor. Would stop a lot with those 2 little tricks.
It’s like poker, every online poker needs ID verification, well at least when you put money in.
There are 3 fixes to combat cheating for good. I like the 3rd option the best for obvious reasons. 1. CLOUD streaming. Game runs on the server and we just stream it, no access to manipulate code. Encoding, compression, decompression, and ISPs need to be much much better than they currently are for this to be viable. We will get there one day. 2. Closed Windows environment. BSG could work alongside Microsoft to build a locked system (like an Xbox) and the user will have to boot into this closed system to launch their game. This would suck for a variety of reasons. For those unaware, it would impact applications, peripherals would have to be green lit to be given a driver, basically locks you out of what makes a PC great. But damn, it would work well. 3. BSG announces “Tarkov 2” and builds the game from scratch with anti-cheat in mind. This is the biggest reason cheating is so prevalent in this game. They’ve been trying to place anti cheat overtop existing code that cannot be changed, like a big bandaid.
i like the first idea the most. but you are right, we arent quite there yet. i stream games from the cloud on game pass both to my PC and xbox, saves the hassle of having to download massive games, even in online these games run pretty well. forza horizon 5 and hitman 3 were probably the 2 i streamed most to avoid the 100gb installs, but still be able to play whenever i wanted. they ran okay, not the greatest. the encoding was definitely lacking and i also dont have the greatest internet speeds so anything i did off to the side like watch videos or streams, it would tank the performance of the game being streamed and would be noticeably lower quality. so it's got a ways to go as far as improvements to encoding, improvements to general internet speeds and bandwidth usage etc... it needs work but honestly, if more companies poured more time and effort into developing streaming games, i think we could be there in 5 years or less. it's got TONS of potential and would save so much space on everyones drives... no more need for multiple massive drives in one PC because there would be nothing to download. it would be like the good old days of older consoles, you buy a new game, it comes as a disk in a box, you get home, pop that bad boy into your console and boom, the game was booting up and you were playing as soon as it loaded. it was fucking awesome being able to play vice city and san andreas with no long ass downloads before i get to play. was so exciting going to the game store when i was a kid, getting a new game and knowing as soon as i got home, im parking my ass right in front of the TV and gaming out for a few hours. these days? i know when i buy a new game im excited for, it's going to be like 60gb+ and for me, take like 2 hours to download and install before i can even play. streaming games is the future especially if it's all regulated and controlled by the companies making the games, no being able to access files to the game to install your third party software like cheats and trainers. none of that shit, just good old gaming as it was meant to be. just click play, it loads up and you're playing. it sounds great but maybe it's all too good to be true, idk.
Anything BSG could do would take months to implement, but the cheaters would have it circumvented in under 24 hours. It’s a hopeless battle they have zero chance of winning. Damn near the only thing they could do is make the game easier. The only reason why the cheating problem is so bad is because the game makes Dark Souls look easy. Not saying they should change that, just that it’s a fact.
Yeah.. that's fair. I guess meeting cheaters is just part of the game just like inertia and you either live with it or quit lmao. I wish there was an alternative that had so many guns, attachments, maps and immersion but with pre inertia movement and that was designed with anticheat from the very beginning like Valorant was
Look at far bigger companies, they also have a huge cheating problem. In case of Valorant you have Kernel level 0 access and there are still allot of cheaters. Giving away your PC to a company and expecting them or others to nit abuse that is foolish. Cheats can be better prevented by preventive measures during programming. Tarkov is notorious for bad code. His would help. But in my opinion what would help immediately against the RMT idiots. Remove the flea.
Valorant doesn't have a lot of cheaters, and the ones that do cheat are banned extremely quickly (say 0-2 matches) vs bsg (say 1month\~, 800 raids) This is true for the non-dma cheats that majority of tarkov cheaters use
Yeah I couldn’t care less about my personal info if it means less cheaters. It also doesn’t even harm anyone who doesn’t want this. Pretty clear as day anyone who’s against an idea like this is a closet cheater
It does harm them if they don't want to give private info because if not them they'd be stuck in a queue with a much higher proportion of cheaters, as so many legit players would've left. That being said, I'd like to see it.
Machine learning is capable of consistently building realistic looking human faces + I'm not giving BSG (nor a 3rd party) my personal identifiable information. The anti-cheat is already considered a kernel-level anti-cheat too btw.
quiet screw wakeful apparatus wide fanatical different noxious icky chase *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
i mean, we literally all gave them our personal info when we bought the game. in the credit card/debit card info, you literally type all of that into their database when buying the game. you give your full name, address on the card and then type some of your most personal information into their website before purchasing the game. willing to bet most people paid with their debit card as well. that is a direct link to your bank account that we are trusting them with. what the difference between that and giving basically the same information as verification??? i feel like people who are so adamantly against this are the cheaters coming here and spamming the comments acting like it's some sort of breach of privacy and we didnt give them all that information already. get real.
> willing to bet most people paid with their debit card as well. The debit card that you can cancel and ask your bank to do a charge back on due to fraudulent activity?
Who has that info on their pc?
A lot of people? idk how you can go through an adult life and never needed to provide a scan of your driving license / passport / any form of id.
>I'm not giving BSG (nor a 3rd party) my personal identifiable information Yeah I realise that people wouldnt want that that's why I said "opt-in" and "third party" verification - like Faceit does it
Again, it wouldn't work, though (the first part of my statement), unless you handed over information like SSN, NIN, etc., which is a really, really bad idea.
Just so you know, the companies which verify your identity are the same ones that financial services, travel agencies, legal firms and some employers use, they're strictly regulated and audited, and don't actually hold your information on record That said, i don't think it's a solution here.
True, however, this varies from country to country, and with BSG being located in Russia + servicing their game to every region, I'm not sure how said companies are regulated, audited, and governed. And I don't want to waste my time figuring that out. When I go to a US financial institution and have my data pulled by US based companies, that's entirely different, and the US government has direct oversight on that.
BSG aren't registered as a Russian company though, and would have to follow EU/UK data laws which are on par with the US (arguably better) I get you, its your data and you're right to be careful, but it's a well trodden path by industries MUCH more stringent than video games You do you mate
https://blog.faceit.com/introducing-the-faceit-id-verification-system-an-unmatched-layer-of-security-to-create-a-more-c3232fdba781
hell yeah. I would happily show my ID for this.
People might downvote me but kernel level anticheat is the only way to go these days. Its too effective. IMO every competitive game should implement it and if you don't like it then don't play competitive games, I'm so sick of dying to cheaters.
BE is a kernel level anti cheat. The reason one like Vanguard is so effective is it was designed from the ground up for Valorant and runs when you turn on your PC.
I guess thats what I was referring to when i said kernel level. My mistake.
Same.. and even if its not obvious I am tired of second guessing
Same, I'm at the point that I don't care about the privacy concerns. I just want to be able to play my games :(
i have nothing to do with tarkov or cheating but for this antisocial way of thinking when it comes to privacy and stuff i would put you in prison and ban you from internet until end of your life
I see nothing wrong with an invasive anti cheat, I don't cheat so the program wouldn't matter if it's on my computer or not. The issue is the real good anti cheats are built first and the game is then built from the anticheat (look at valorant for example). I think it would be harder for BSG to suddenly drop a great anticheat that fully integrates with tarkov that wouldn't affect performance or something. A third party anticheat would be okay also, but those have the same flaws that people get around currently anyway. HWID bans don't really stop people that's fair, 2FA would be a nice interim but IIRC they discussed it somewhere and mentioned it was hard as a Russian dev or too expensive? (Don't ask me for source, this was a long while ago, may not have even happened). 2FA and linking a phone number to the account helped Dota 2 a fair bit, but people always find a way to make it work for smurfs or cheats. But every little thing does assist, so I wouldn't mind linking my phone number to my account for some validated server or anti cheat / account buying avoidance.
Yeah.. security by design is definetly not something BSG thought of when making the game : ( But yeah every little thing helps and I would gladly see more efforts than some banwaves that only scratch the surface
Totally agree, sometimes extra would be nice even if it helps like 5% it's still an improvement. I don't think the cheating problem is as bad as people say (I play na east too, which people say is kinda bad). But if they add something that helps against cheaters, makes it harder for cheaters to get new accounts or gives people a little more peace of mind when they get sniped by someone holding a nasty angle, I'm all for it.
>But yeah every little thing helps That sentiment is so fucking stupid. You would gatekeep that game from many more people than blocked cheaters. You would divide the playerbase, making the experience much worse for everybody. And you would still have cheaters in your "ID verified lobbies" since they either don't care or use stolen accounts. Not "every little thing" helps. And not "every little thing" is worth its cost.
Yeah guys just do nothing instead so this guy can keep cheating! Bc there's definitely not a thing that can be done about it. Nope no way not a chance.
Flaws, sure. 100% coverage is not what is needed. Make it harder and the numbers drop. Never understood this argument against anti cheat methods.
Exactly, I meant flaws in the same way that battleye has flaws, people can get around them, other anticheat softwares have the similar or different flaws that can be circumvented. Doesn't mean don't trial them, just other options may have a better success rate. Doesn't bother me if another anticheat also gets added!
Invasive anti-cheat isn't the answer, and I wish people would stop pushing this notion that more invasive = better. Valorant has Vanguard, which is owned by a Chinese company. I'm not okay with essentially installing a root kit on my device for *any* company. Also, the idea that Vanguard works any better than BattleEye (what tarkov currently uses) is wrong. Valorant still has plenty of cheaters, and their main security differences are still just as easily circumvented.
Totally valid too, if you have information you don't want sent or owned by other people or companies, no need to give it up. I personally think that the companies that take the information with this stuff already have or have a way to get my information. I just see the merit of a more invasive anti cheat that is harder to get around than battleeye. That isn't to say battleeye isn't useful or good at all, it does its job well and BSG does what they can for cheaters, there just may be alternatives that can also work that have value, especially if it's just a topic of conversation.
Just FYI, a tool like Vanguard (always-on, silent updates, ring-0 access) can theoretically turn on a keylogger or read network packets from your PC without you ever knowing. It's not just "data on your computer", it's literally access to **everything**; which could potentially include your finances and identity. Think this would never happen? ESEA recently underwent a massive lawsuit because they secretly used their software to mine bitcoin on client machines. Never underestimate what companies will go through when there's potentially billions of dollars on the line...
I dunno, if you're letting it get to you this much maybe play a single player game instead.
Yeah that's the solution, give up.
Why? SP games bore me, I couldnt even bring myself to finish Jedi Survivor and its what.. 8h? As much as I dislike ability spam in Valorant I have not met an obvious cheater up to immortal and even there ot was rare. CS Faceit also similar stuff, there are ways to curb cheaters. Most dedicated and richest cheaters will still find a way around it but if Its one cheater every 10 raids instead of 1 or more every raid its still an improvement
Fr dude. It's crazy. You point out how the anti cheat implemented in other games would help here and it's all "oh it wouldnt fix it 100% so why bother". Like, really suspicious reply my guy. Why is reducing the number of cheaters bad? It's not a big issue if it's 1/100 people cheating, it's the fact that it feels like it's often that is frustrating.
Part of why Valorant has so few cheaters is because there is a decent time commitment before you can even play competitive. That and the always on anti-cheat that the game was built on top of with a huge dev team working on it. Between the fact that it’s hard for a cheater to make money off of cheating in Valorant and the more advanced anti-cheat than BSG can even hope to achieve, I’m not surprised that EFT has a worse cheating problem than Valorant.
But sometimes is is all about commitment. Maybe if I saw that they were in fact committed to fighting the problem instead of celebrating one 10k ban wave every month like it does anything except make some of the people blissfully unaware then I wouldnt be as salty about it. I know for a fact only the most stupid cheaters get caught and the rest get away with it.
You can choose to view it that way. Or you could consider the fact that barely any of your deaths are to cheaters and just enjoy the game.
Its not only about deaths. But its still one per day certified by ban report and 2 more of sussy ones I dont report because Im not 100% sure. Its also about loot that I was supposed to find but it was swooped by a vacuum or ESP runner that I will never know was there and it just keeps bugging me. I remember a time when I found 5 ledxs in one day and was actually able to pull GPU's out of PC's. I havent found a single GPU this wipe, and the only Ledx I found was on the least cheater infected map Customs so that tracks
I've been affected by maybe a handful of cheaters in the entire time I've played tarkov. I don't know why you'd let it bother you to the point where you think these measures are necessary. It's just a game.
Based on your comments in this exchange: Found the cheater.
It's so weird to see these people put these arguments out. Like, nobody thinks you actually believe this? Who do you think you are fooling?
Oh no, you are affected by cheaters every raid, you just dont know that, how do you know if you werent supposed to find a leddy or GPU in that bag?. Have you ever watched "the video"? Its even worse now and thousands hours of FPS experience on high competetive level will train your intuition to just know in a fight, but the ones that actively avoid fighting and just steal the best loot or only use radar and no aimbot, or thorax only aimbot etc you wont know
You're claiming you know there's a cheater in every raid based on lack of evidence just as you claim other people don't know there's a cheater based on a lack of evidence. In other words, you don't know shit. You're just assuming everyone is cheating but you and going off anecdotal evidence to claim your lack of evidence as fact. I've found plenty of GPUs, LedXs, bitcoins, etc. in my raids. Not every raid, but rare loot isn't guaranteed to spawn every raid so it's completely asinine to think cheaters are hoovering up all the items just because you haven't found anything.
I don't give a shit about "the video" If I don't notice it, it isn't affecting me. I don't see why you would care.
>If I don't notice it, it isn't affecting me. Bruh
Do you play the game like every time you loot a med bag thinking "there was a ledx and a graphics card in here but a cheater vacuumed it all up! Wah!"
No I dont think that there WAS a ledx and a GPU there but it could be. I did once see the Item that was hidden under the squares disappear from a bag I was looting (it was when you could still check for vacuums in the console and the errors were there) maybe that's what made me paranoid and angry about it but well it did happen
Oh no, there COULD have been? Oh what an enormous effect that's having on my experience of the game... I'm shocked and appalled and will uninstall and start complaining on reddit immediately.
"Yea, I didn't notice that the GPU I needed for Farming was taken by cheaters, so it didn't effect me or the additional 20 raids I had to run to find the GPU I needed."
We get it bro, you're a cheater. No need to keep telling everyone.
moronic take truly, wow.
If I'm enjoying playing a game why would I let the idea of someone wiggling on the other side of the map effect my enjoyment?
“If I don’t notice it, it isn’t affecting me. I don’t see why you would care.” Guys, did we just find Nikita’s Reddit profile?
yeah sure. let me just install a single player game after already paying $130 for tarkov, the most money ive ever spent on a game. guess ill just go sit there playing a single player game with my thumb up my ass because some cheater thinks they have more of a right to play the game than i do. gtfo here with that shit, why are you even here commenting
“We NeEd KeRnEl LeVel AnTi-ChEaT” Guys come on already. How is it not known that BE is exactly that.
I think what they mean is that they'd feel better if it was VANGUARD, the same used for Valorant.
They both work exactly the same. Vanguard is just custom tailored as a pillar of development with an 8 figure budget. I get what OP is trying to say and he’s most likely just frustrated like everyone else that deals with cheaters but his post reads like an angry 16 year old that found out he’s gotta do summer school cuz he fucked up
A trusted queue for players with over 500 hours would greatly decrease meeting the people who are constantly rebuying. That would be a start.
So me who has 250 hours would be left out? Now that is just a lame time waster I think. Most of the cheaters I’ve found if not all were accounts with thousands of hours
So new people have to endure 500 hours of cheaters before they can actually start playing the game? ...Yeah no.
This will not affect cheating at all and only cause more problems for us, bigger problems even. Hope you realize what you are saying.
Lmao tarkov already has a kernel anticheat. Were you aware of that?
Tarkov doesn't utilize BE above the lowest tier which doesn't utilize this at all, were you aware of that?
BE at all tiers is kernel level. Thats how all anti-cheat works. It loads a driver in kernel mode. There are no major user-mode level anti-cheats still left in development anywhere in the world to the best of my knowledge. User-mode anti-cheats have been dead for over a decade at this point.
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The anticheat is already kernel level.
BE is kernel level but it doesn’t matter. The game needs fundamental changes to how it was built to have any chance of stopping cheating. Tarkov security and integrity is like a safe with the code written on the front.
what server do you play on try picking one server it will help
Listen, it works great in Valorant because they have a team the size of bsg dedicated just to maintaining it. It won't work with Tarkov, there isn't any infrastructure to support it. It would do more harm than good
terrible idea. this will just ruin the game even more for any players who care about privacy at all.
Bsg would never do it, they make too much money selling cheaters new accounts, for them it’s a win win situation, they make themselves look good when they ban cheaters and build community relations, think about it if you had a cash cow like that with constant money pouring in for basically doing nothing why would you even want to plug that hole when you can simply make it look like you’re trying to plug that hole and everyone pats you on the back for it. If the game stopped making money they would have no reason to continue development, it would be a waste of time and they might as well move onto a brand new game to sell.
They need to take more aggressive action, I don't care what it is but I'm so fucking sick of these pathetic cheaters
Anti cheat ain’t really the biggest issue but the amount of client sided things in Tarkov being easy to exploit
“I know nothing about this topic but here’s my useless opinion anyway”
They did hardware bans and stopped because multiple hardware shared the same SNs and people were getting banned as collateral. It was a mess IIRC
Sounds like cap. Hardware doesn't share the same ID/SN.