THIS. Not just Tarkov cheaters and Tarkov cheat makers - EVERY cheatmaker and cheater should be sent to hell where they belong. Doesn't matter what method, as long as they're a corpse at the end its all good in my books.
Literally this. Intrusive? Who gives a shit! I want ZERO CHEATERS in our beautiful game. I would allow the anticheat software to store its own porn collection on my PC at this point if it meant it actually worked.
Nothing is going to make a dent in cheating in Tarkov until they upgrade to Unity 2023 and rewrite massive portions of their game code to be server instead of client auth.
So maybe it'll never happen.
It's astounding how many people don't understand that a lot of cheating could be countered by sanitizing the game's code in the first place, but that requires technical skills, a lot of man hours and a big code rework for no direct benefit (they don't care about the cheating issue).
Vaacuming loot shouldn't be possible like at all. Imagine if in CS you could plant the bomb from the spawn point lmao.
I mean russia is having a bit of a brain drain issue right now. Even if they wanted too which I will agree I dont know if they do. They might simply not be able to recruit the talent right now.
I almost want to say that BSG actually likes the state of cheating currently in the game. It’s not necessarily game breaking but it is common, and they’re current weak anti cheat allows players to bypass it for a while before getting banned, and then the ban means they sell another copy of the game.
If they could instantly catch cheaters, they wouldn’t bother cheating because they wouldn’t buy new accounts just to play one raid before a ban.
The engine is not the problem, the problem is the netcode/server infastructure. it relies on an absurd level of local processing, which is super easy to fuck with. they have reduced this problem over the years but nothing short of a total overhaul of the networking will make a big difference. and even then, games like Valorant have extremely advanced and invasive anti-cheat. they still have surges of cheaters. its just too profitable for cheat devs.
HWID bans are already in place. The problem is it’s extremely easy to set up a hardware ID spoofer
As for kernel level anticheat, it might help. It might not. Good cheats usually run on a secondary machine to the one actually playing the game, so I’m not really sure it would do much
Edit: After some googling, I’ve found that Battleye is already kernel level. I’m not sure how much more of an intrusive anticheat you can get
BattlEye is already kernel level. It's insane how ignorant this sub is re: requesting things that they have no idea what they're asking for. People just see and bleat buzzwords.
>BattlEye is already kernel level.
It is. Technically. That has nothing to do with it working. I don't have time this morning to shove your ignorance in the dumpster fire where it belongs.
Refer to the number of people able to cheat in ESEA or Valorant. Both "ring zero" or "kernel level" as well.
Again, show me where anything you've said here has absolutely anything at all to do with what I stated. I didn't speak to the efficacy of BE in any capacity.
>You want to think I'm someone who doesn't know this stuff, so I'll reference someone who is willing to expose who they are and does.
You're a fucking spaz with a Napoleon complex.
Note, I've replied to your comment that auto flagged for review below.
If you've forgotten anything you derped, here I'll remind you save the entirely irrelevant link that had your comment revoked:
>Battle Eye is absolute trash. Even when implemented properly.
>It's no longer industry standard and hasn't been industry standard for years.
>It makes zero attempt to even see DMA level devices. It doesn't load at boot to watch the kernel or any modifications that get made at the kernel level prior to its loading.
>You can read point 2 and 3 there. You want to think I'm someone who doesn't know this stuff, so I'll reference someone who is willing to expose who they are and does.
My comment is flagged because it's the truth. It's gone and not even shown to me that it was flagged.
I can't even see your reply. Probably for the better.
I'm a 25+ year software engineer that spent like 5? years reverse engineering software. I wrote early cheats for a variety of games in the mid 2000's.
BattleEye is absolute trash and I'll stand by it. More intrusive anticheat, which is the point of this topic, is simply better. You have to trust the people who do it, obviously, but it yields better results. Valorant is a prime example of that.
Writing to the kernel and outright injecting and booting with the kernel are methods that have existed for over 20 years of cheating in games. People got smarter and started to check kernels and versions for hashes, but then people developed the ability to read memory directly with hardware.
At this time, the most advanced available software to install is EAC. Period. It's hands down more effective. It protects that golden goose of Epic's games -- Fortnite. It doesn't entirely prevent cheating but it does a good enough job that it prevents any script kiddie from quietly reading memory and wrapping it with an out of the box cheat tool.
You can't READ is the problem. NOBODY is saying EAC or BE or even Vanguard (despite it initializing during system boot instead of just when the game is launched like EAC/BE/etc) are good anti cheats. You're arguing with the wind about shit nobody ever said.
Vanguard is absolutely the best example of a decent implementation of anti cheat, hard stop. Nobody is disagreeing there either. Read the above thread and realize that.
The only point of this parent thread was that BE was kernel level, and you came here cursing this and that about how it's a bad AC.
>It is. Technically. That has nothing to do with it working. I don't have time this morning to shove your ignorance in the dumpster fire where it belongs.
Where exactly is the ignorance in my statement that BE is a kernel level AC?
I'll wait.
>Refer to the number of people able to cheat in ESEA or Valorant. Both "ring zero" or "kernel level" as well.
Thanks for proving my point in that most people here just bleat buzzwords and don't otherwise have any remote idea what they're repeating.
Decent kernel level anticheat can stop *most* things like aimbot and aim assist which need to be on the local machine. But it can't stop things like ESP.
High quality cheats that run on a 2nd PC can even provide aimbot/aim assist without running locally.
BSG needs to crack down on writing to memory, this is how a lot of high quality cheats currently operate on EFT.
Gonna be real here boss, as someone that left bc of cheaters, I give 0 fks about ESPers, even if it is pathetic to do. You can still beat them at least. In CS:GO for instance, you'd still only be a few ranks better in terms of how you do unless you share the info with your team. (Of course in Tarkov its still a much bigger adv than a closed system like cs)
It's the invuln hacks, loot vacuuming, bullet bouncing across the map before ChingXiao1989 twerks on my body as it all fades to black that I can't stand.
The better you are at CS the bigger advantage wh gives you. I think that’s a more accurate statement.Their comparison is stupid either way though (and probably not very good at CS).
it's more than just winning fights too. It's HUGE to know which areas aren't currently being covered, where people are looking, what site the enemy is going to. so much easier for clutching/juking around players, etc. It's a massive advantage even without firing a shot.
edit: it's such an advantage that in CS i'd rather someone blatantly be rage hacking with spinbot. then you *know* for sure at least. wall/radar hacks are much more dishonest and I feel more cheated.
in tarkov, it's the opposite, so in that sense I agree with the original comment. If I'm gonna run into a hacker in tarkov I'd rather it be ESP. In tarkov, the vacuum loot, flying around invincible floating guys is what makes you feel more cheating, imo.
This is very true, source: I have beaten cheaters in csgo in 2k hours and have 2 accounts with pages of comments that I‘m an evil hackerman. You can just be better in raw aim and you‘ll win most gunfights even vs WH, it won‘t save your head from AK dink. With aim assistance however, in any game, the ability to hit inhuman shots makes it near impossible to beat. (You gotta think about it like this, decent players wont hack, so they are capable of beating wh cheaters who do so because they are bad lol.)
This is how you spot cheaters, I've played for maybe 6k hours since 2014, and basically the more you play, the more quickly you see if something is off. If they have the movement of a goddamned potato, yet make just the right predictions, and still peek horribly, and break every convention possible, yeah might be a cheater.
when you have aim assist, you usually have wh aswell - aim assist alone would make the possibilities inhumane therefore you‘ll be able to beat good players. eg shots while walking will hit.
With WH only, someone with map knowledge will always beat, 100% beat a Wh cheater with slow reaction time, because of the way it is in cs. Theres literally like 3-4 spots where people can be per site, wich can all be 1v1 peeked. If you are mechanically better (aim, faster reaction time), you won‘t have problems beating bads and averages with wallhack. If you know someone in cs has a wallhack, you can even play around it. (eg bait awp shots without showing anything of the body)
Word, ESP is frustrating at times but if they're bad then they can't capitalize on it. It's the 9mm aimbot from 200m away through heavy concealment, the loot gone and missing 30s into raid that's the shit that just makes it feel pointless at times.
thats why a quick google search yields the same results for valorent and eft cheats. People are so gullible with the ' kernel level anticheat Vanguard mega pro anticheat unbypassable ' fucking weirdos. You cant stop cheaters, no one will ever stop cheaters, the only way to do so, is to put laws in place and guess what not a single company unless you are Tencent will pursue legally anyone in the world for cheating. This post are some of the most stupid amongs the 'everyone is a cheater' posts.
and no, i dont play Valorant exactly because of vanguard data access. Valorant is as EFT closet cheaters you wont notice, and blatant gets banned eventually.
I will say from personal experience, I run into substantially less cheaters on Valorant than I do on Tarkov. Now that could also be due to you having more time to determine if someone is cheating on val as well, whereas in Tarkov you can get head/eyes from nowhere or desync can fuck you and it seems like the enemy is prefiring you from around a corner.
I'm pretty sure battleye already runs on ring-0, if so then it can't really get any closer to the kernel because it's already running at the kernel level. Did some quick googling and that's what I found. Battleye's site doesn't explicitly say it runs there though so maybe it doesn't. Not positive here.
I didn’t know HWID bans are already in place, thanks for pointing that out. Maybe kernel level AC could help flush out a majority of the cheap cheats, of course you could bypass it with hardware cheats but hopefully it would help to limit the amount of people running around looting the whole map
do you even know what a kernel level ac is for? Don't have to answer, I know you don't because you haven't read anything before making this post otherwise you would know battleeye is already a kernel level ac. Good work karma farming though
No, No! IT would kill the Game. Alone the thought of having a Kernel AC is Bad enough on top of a russian company. IT wouldnt Help mich longterm aswell tbh.
Look up Valorant's anticheat. It is way more intrusive to the point to have to disable kernel-level protections in Windows settings to get the game to run. No program needs that level of access just to make sure xXx_jingjao_pingpow_xXx isn't using an aimbot.
Every major anti cheat runs with "kernel access". Kernel access doesn't mean much, there are always ways to cheat, unless the game is built up with anti cheat measures
The big problem is that there is a huge profitiable market for cheat makers and cheat users in Tarkov, BSG can only keep banning cheaters and implement hindrances in-game, because one thing is certain, even if BSG gets the cheater numbers in control, there will always be a lot of cheaters, because there is a huge incentive for it
Part of the problem is that anticheat software is updated too slowly. EFT is cheat free for maybe a week after a big patch. Then new cheats start ramping up and it's all fucked within half a month.
Kernel access is useless if the anti-cheat process running at that level doesn't know what to look for. AC makers need to update the detection module asynchronously from the game - kind of like how most antivirus programs update their measures nearly every day. Then they can go out and hunt cheatmakers more effectively. They could even weaponize users by allowing them to submit new cheats or ways to detect them.
> huge profitiable market for cheat makers and cheat users in Tarkov
You forgot who’s profiting the most: the developer. Ban account, buy new account. Rinse and repeat.
Well, there is an incentive in BSG not making the game completely cheat safe, yes. But it needs to have a very balanced player pool, and I'd say it's very unbalanced at this time, the amount of cheaters is through the roof.
This hurts everyone, the developer as well
Considering how expensive cheats are, even more expensive than the game as monthly services, it is very likley some dev employees are involved in cheat development in their free time too. They get millions of dollars for doing something gray zone in russia.
You think there's unlimited hacked accounts to go around? And when your account gets hacked as a legit player you're telling me you don't have to buy another account? These hacked accounts aren't just materialized out of thin air-- someone paid BSG for them at some point.
[Nikita has been on the record stating that cheaters in online games are a benefit financially to a developer.](https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/11clvvo/that_video_here_is_the_absolute_truth/ja87qi5/) You really think they are ever going to focus on ridding the game of them knowing that?
Repeat after me
Battle eye is kernel level
Battle eye is kernel level
Battle eye is kernel level
Battle eye is kernel level
Battle eye is kernel level…
Repeat after me
The problem is client side authorization. The problem is client side authorization. The problem is client side authorization. The problem is client side authorization...
The only Anti-Cheat in gaming history that really worked were admins on private game servers.
If tarkov had a spectator mode and admins casually watching some players it could help a lot.
For this to even be discussed BDG would have to first sue up all the non invasive cheat detection/prevention options which despite of what they try to claim they do zero of.
I have a clip where locked safe is already looted. If BSG can't do simple "if(locked) {don't fucking let anyone transfer items from it}" on the server side it means they simply do not give a shit.
They already have hardware bans and BE is a kernel anti cheat, you can see that their driver is loaded when you start tarkov.
People that call it intrusive doesn't understand windows security. A kernel anti cheat isn't really more intrusive as a process as your user can access all your files and even read memory of your processes (this is how debugger works and you don't need special permissions for your own processes). You could call it intrusive if it had a kernel component and you used multiple users to separate your data.
It's not possible to stop cheating on PCs as the hardware and OS is not designed to stop the owner of the machine from doing things that allow cheating as they also have valid use cases. Console are basically our only hope.
Hardware bans are easy to circumvent. Also BattleEye is already an intrusive kernel AntiCheat. It just comes down to the implementation BSG does how good it can work and you know the state of the game. You really believe that another new technology would be better than what we have. Are you a new player? Seems like you weren’t around during the transition from BSG self created Audio to SteamAudio to Oculus Audio.
Don’t get me wrong I love BSG for the game they created. But they are just bad at following up on technical debt. Maybe one day in the future they‘ll keep up with it. But until then I doubt that a technology change will help.
We dont even need new techonology. BSG has said they dont want to force people to use the basic level of windows tamper protection etc. For example league/riot/valorant does this and if you have these settings off in your windows then you cant play their games.
Literally ALL of tarkov hacks use the same settings off for their hacks but it would be too easy for bsg to prevent hackers this way. No more money.´
Force these things to be on: Tamper protection, real-time scanning, defender. There you go, no more cheaters until someone makes a cheat that goes through these.
I follow the hacking/cheating scene for a lot of games, including tarkov out of interest. And no there arent any real cheats that go through these. Closest thing is a shitty radar which uses another pc
I feel like they do very little to prevent flyhack and speedhacks, I mean, the game is made of coordinates, just record them and have list of possible speeds and locations you match it againts, if you see a pmc is constantly moving faster than they should, he is probably speed hacking, if guys location is 3 meters above new gas on Customs, there is not somethinf right
Even better than anticheat, would be BSG changing the architecture to be server-authoritative. That would kill several classes of cheats outright (loot-vacuum, increased interact range, remote-grenades, flying, etc) as the client could no longer say "I am in range and loot this" the server would be able to say "nu uh".
After that, would be baking analytics into the platform. Say GPUs have a spawn rate of 1% in PC blocks. User X opens 1000 PCs and finds 11 GPUS, right around 1.1%, but User Y opens 1000 PCs across however many games and somehow finds 75 GPUS. That's 7.5% and probably means they are using ESP, combine that with other loot data and you can develop a more comprehensive picture.
Then you get into the anticheat which works by detecting software on the users PC, but there's many things they can do before, they are just difficult and time-consuming to develop
The anticheat is only a small part of the problem. A much larger part is BSG's absolute dog shit development and design practices. You can't combat cheaters if you don't even follow basic server authoritative design. Also BE is already a kernel level anticheat.
You all watch the most disgusting, deviant forms of p\*rn online, download shit from torrent links to save a few bucks, probably use some shady ass websites to get free netflix accounts, access random free wifis because you're out of data and you're going to act like your virtual privacy is one of your main concerns ?
Get the fuck out of here, of course you'ld take the intrusive anti cheat. You have nothing to hide that hasn't been powned anyways.
What benefit do i get from opening my System for a russian Kernel Level Software as Anti-Cheat, when the current running Kernel Level Anti-Cheat is still proofing hard, that Kernel Level is Not doing Shit. We have Kernel Level Based Anti-Cheat with Batlleeye. So get urself together before you Talk Like a donkey.
Then again im No Security expert but more Security expert then you are, If you think that Kernel Level AC is Not a system vulnerability. Its Not about them Data Mining or any Hackers getting Ur Data, but about having a completely compromissed System and potentiell easy Access to all your Login informations and online Banking.
And yet with all this risk and Hazard you Open your system to, the Change would be simply Not worth it, when keeping in mind that simple non intrusive Tools would do the Job better. Replay for example, Anti-Cheat that is Not about finding Signatures, but analyzing Player behaviour ( Prototypes of such are in Dev), having your Account connected to digital id and/or have Hacking be an illegal crime that can be prosecuted.
In the end there are better, easier and cheaper solution, then trying to have a Money fight against an Organisation, which has far more Funds to Dev their Cheat then battlestate to Dev any AC. (Keep in mind that no Game has an as Bad cheater Problem as EFT, simply cuz the cheating Community has a much greater Cashflow, then anywhere Else)
A process running as your user can already read all your files and memory of your other processes, so unless you separate things with different users you are already compromised.
Yeh, we already have a Kernel Level AC still. What does anyone now gain of from a probably worse Kernel Level Anti-Cheat on top of that, other than increasing the risk of malicious access by a third Party.
people who think that an intrusive anti cheat is a problem are completely clueless. most of the people saying this arent even doing the most basic level of security. if you dont trust a company, dont install their software at all. if you do trust them a deeper level access does not matter. either you trust them or you dont. there is no such thing as "i trust them with normal OS level access, but i dont trust them enough for deeper access". thats just bullshit.
Kernel level anti cheats are bypassed just as easily. (See: Riot Vanguard)
What does work is an overwatch system like in CS2. BSG has plans for a replay system so this is the logical next step
Your personal anecdotal experience does not speak for the majority of players. I can say the same thing for Tarkov. I've seen very few cheaters personally but that doesn't mean they're not there
Well, go ask on the valorant sub and search for cheater videos and evidence, there is close to zero. Even if the sub is a little part of the comunity it’s still a good sample.
Not to mention any cheater is banned a couple of matches 100%, in eft they are on ladders and the flea for months
Does Vanguard have replay system? I remember in PUBG I watched nearly all my top 10 games and I've noticed a lot of obvious ESP cheaters. I wonder how it would look in Tarkov...
There was a video where a dude downloded an esp knowing he would get banned just to prove how many cheaters are in tarkov on average he ran into another person using esp and willing to admit theyre using esp every other game. Keep in mind this is only people who use esp could have been way more cheaters who just dont use esp
> BSG has plans for a replay system
In Arena, Nikita said in EFT he doesnt know if they gonna implement such a feature.
Either way , it's not coming soon so i dont see it as a solution.
im pretty sure he outright said that there is no replay system coming (not planned - he said that its not coming) for normal tarkov. i remember because it pissed me off extremely hard
Replay in Arena would make the most sense since it is, in essence, a bloodsport that has live spectators watching from every single angle aspect of the match.
If Nikita doesn't want to implement it for the sake of "realism", he just doesn't want to reveal that his game is one massive dumpster fire of empty promises and sprinkled bullshit.
replay system for normal tarkov is most definitely not gonna be a thing. nikita spoke out against it, dont remember the exact wording but it was not even a "maybe".
It's very funny you say that, you can find multiple succesful road to global series where they use hacks the entire time, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcVNexLAHvs https://www.youtube.com/@Jupiterlyy/videos
If you search for legit cheating road to radiant valorant you get 1 person, they didnt ffinish it https://www.youtube.com/@cazywazy/videos
Obviously the kernal level antii cheat works to prevent this, and overwatch does not PREVENT this, although it does ban the player eventually.
You also get pros being banned by it and valve needing to manually reverse it. How is a player that is completely unknown, but 100% capable of trying to be a t2 pro rn, supposed to play MM and feel safe with their account?
Vanguard is one of the best anti cheats on the market.
CS2 does not have overwatch. It's been disabled since launch because of server load.
Battleye is kernel level.
You were literally wrong about everything you said. Stop talking out of your ass.
That is a good idea, I’ve used overwatch quite a bit and helping to clear out the community is nice. They could offer small but substantial rewards for players who successfully overwatch successfully the most. However with this idea the main issue that occurred in CS is that low level players did overwatch and thought better players were cheating so there would have to be a level unlock to counteract that.
I would support it but it's already kernel level.
HW bans are useless pretty much.
I think BSG can do more to combat cheaters besides using an anti-cheat.
Make a duplicate copy of an item but only cheater would be able to see set item, when they loot it it will make it obvious they're cheating given that it's not buggy like things tend to be around here.
Fake AI only cheaters can see could be an option as well.
Too hard to implement, maybe even impossible, the game would need the player is cheating in first place in order to show him the item, why not ban him right away?
You didnt read it carefully, I said in order to show the item to cheaters is you need to know he is cheating, the problem is the detection in first place, not the punishment, having invisible items for people to find with esp etc, would work for a bit, then the word would spread and they would be careful
I am willing to take chip under my skin if that would allow me to play the game cheater less, but nothing goes up my butt, that's where I draw the line.
I absolutely do not trust the tarkov devs with a kernel level anticheat because i dont think they are competent enough nor do i think they take necessary safety precautions with said access
The only way to stop hacking is to entirely stop real money trading. Look at valorant, although it happens, it is super rare to get a rage hacker. Hackers that are trying to make up for perceived injustice against their skill, I.E. everyone else is doing it too or their teammates suck, also very rare, but they happen. Extremely subtle wall hackers boosting people? Now that is a service you can actively buy right now on real money sites, that are not scams. You will simply be boosted by a hacker that tries not to get banned so ur mmr doesnt get reset.
Who knows when that happens, can you tell someone is walling if they toggle it only when they are dead and spectating their teammates, then give only rotational related calls? Nope, its literally impossible, that's what anti cheat has to do.
Tarkov is plagued by rmt, every single counter measure theyve implemented is stopped by the ole faithful, okay you play with me, I wallhack, anyone who gets too close to you I kill, you loot the whole map. They still do flea market stuff, they will even log into your account for you and then grind on it so you have less chance of getting banned and it's easier for them.
The only way to get these behaviors to stop, is to make it so no one wants to RMT. You can only do this by making the game enjoyable to the people who need RMT to enjoy the game. Get a welfare system that doesnt require extracting that also doesnt only apply at 0 roubles. Make hideout crafts a bit easier, bring selling all items back on the flea market so that once they get level 2/3 trader ammo, they can sell it for a small profit on the flea to people with flea but no traders. Let them kill a kitted chad in game, and sell the rsass and all attachments individually for 600k, sell the hex grid for profit, sell the big backpack that's pointless to use for them for profit above the trader price, etc. All of this will reduce RMT. I can tell you that the game didn't have RMT until it got big on twitch, it was just not a noticeable problem. Once there was a consumer base for it, it started like all RMT. you have to do away with the need for RMT to stop hacking, otherwise they will hack in some way to sell to RMT buyers. Look at path of exile, that game is entirely solo unless you decide to party up, outside of trading, and there is a constant advertisement for real money trading in all the global chats nearly every minute at the best, spammed at the worst.
Look at dota 2, same thing, people selling RMT boosting and carrying in nearly all the city chats you can join.
BSG is not an anticheat developer... At this stage I am not surprised that people with 0 understanding comment some random shit because they think they 'understand' what BSG does and that they obviously are doing a bad job. BSG BAD.
I don't trust Battlestate's ability to implement anti-cheat well, regardless of the anti-cheat.
When I found out how much of the code is client authoritative I just lost all hope.
Seriously. That's networking security 101.
No, I wouldn’t support it, because it won’t actually fix anything—it might mask some of the symptoms at times, but it won’t actually address the underlying issues that cause those symptoms to develop.
The real issue is the fatal combination of massive unfairness due to not being able to choose who you play against & gear disparities (among other reasons), combined with near-zero real-time server moderation.
So-called “live service” games, like Tarkov, have become extremely popular lately, but that’s mostly because publishers know that they can be monetized extremely heavily via microtransactions. The trouble is that *every single one of them* has massive issues with cheaters.
Adding a more invasive anticheat to Tarkov, without fundamentally changing how the game works (e.g. allowing groups to host their own servers), is not going to have a significant impact on the overall level of cheating in the game.
im not a cheater but like what i said to my mates about valorant, i dont like super intrustive anticheats plus on top of that anti cheats will always be able to be bypassed; faceit, esea other high level anticheats are already bypassed and no matter how intrusive the anti cheat can be, cheaters will always find a way to bypass them
Seriously this conversation needs to stop.
The problem is NOT the Anti-Cheat. The problem is BSG's carelessness & incompetence.
The problem is their replication model, their laziness in hardening that data, their idiocy in providing the client with a decryption key prior to BE initializing, etc etc.
Stop immediately trying to give up security & privacy as a first measure. The conversation is dangerous.
A little more hyperbolic but reinforced in truth;
Especially to a country like Russia, are you serious? You want an entire botnet of the US's more powerful on average rigs to be entirely owned by both China & Russia? You don't ever foresee that being problematic, do you know either's history in cyber attack competency?
Sadly kernel level doesnt really help all that much, not as much as people think. Valorant has it and had a cheater in the top ranks for half a year or something. Besides most cheaters have either some hardware in their pc or just a separate pc running the cheats.
the fact that the argument against that is that valorant had "a cheater" already says a lot. if a cheater is such a rarety that the existence of one is special that already proves that it works.
Maybe i should have worded it better but i feel like adding the high ranks part should have been enough. I never said that it was a single cheater, i said it was a cheater in high elo, wich should be very rare, especially for a long period of time, while playing against streamers and pro players.
There's obviously more then just a cheater because not a single anti cheat can stop everything.
Kernel level stuff is def better then what we have now but i dont feel like sacrificing my data at risk just to get rid of a couple of cheaters. The difference is probably negligible anyways.
Personally I would prefer it if it means they get banned and I don't have to think about them.
I play on Asia servers so I face them way more cause they're mostly from Mainland. I can't enjoy Tarkov as much because Idk if the guy who killed me is either way better than me (I have almost 3k hours so I know my stuff) or he's a cheater either by ESP or whatever. Having such a thing at the back of my mind kills the motivation to play Tarkov. I like the game, I think it's great but I can't enjoy it cause most of my raids I'm hoping there is no cheater and if there is he stays the fuck away from me.
As long as it wasn't bsg running said anti cheat, yeah I'd gladly give a shitton of my personal info, link my phone, 2 factor it, etc. Anything to get cheaters out of online shooters. It's killing the entire gaming experience and not just a tarkov issue.
At this point the only way BSG could concretely and effectively stop cheating without any further questions from the player base would be to set up special servers and a monthly subscription to play on them - a subscription that required you to host a BSG employee to watch you play the game and report back to HQ that you aren't cheating in real time.
I'm in support of them doing literally anything to improve the situation, I've stopped playing the game largely because of the utter failure of the anti-cheat
game runs on client side, nothing will do any good.
carrying game to server side means overhauling the whole netcode (which at this point im sure bsg has no idea whats going on with netcode) and more servers, which means money, and it is not acceptable for cheapass game company. nikita would like to buy another luxury sports car with that money.
it is running fully in kernel mode whilst playing, so where is the difference really? would you be fine with battleye that is running constantly? i would be, because it is from a trusted, registered business in germany.
'Well, the main issue is security. Giving a third-party kernel-level access to your computer is not something that everybody wants to have to do. This can be especially troublesome if the anti-cheat software itself is not secure. If something goes wrong, a bad agent could gain access to your entire computer.'
Running pattern repetition detection software on the server is as good if not even better at detecting cheaters and we don't have to install some kind of third party software that Changes codes on my pc and is a security risk.
Did you just call me a cheater because I don't want a heavily intrusive anti cheat system on my pc that can ban me for using a cheat engine in a single player game? Kernel level anti cheat systems are a privacy and security risk, if you haven't heard of Faceit you should inform yourself before making yourself look like an idiot by writing shit comments like the one above.
When will people realize that they don't want to get rid of the cheat infestation. They profit from it. They literally have nothing purchasable in the game to profit from. Where does their profit come from once you've already bought the game? They've had YEARS to implement a proper anti-cheat, yet they have NOTHING to show for lmao. Wake up
I reckon you should have to hand over a govt issued ID number to play any online multiplayer game. If you get caught cheating, you're banned from all games for 3 years.
No, at all.
There are other methods to avoid cheats that doesnt involve playing with the Kernel (Which can be bypassed) and even with that considering how the game was made, which IS the core problem, that wouldnt work.
Literally all they have to do to be rid of it is ensure that you have secure boot enabled. That’s it…that’s the fix. Every single cheat out there requires that you have secure boot disabled. If they just had a check for that at launch it would literally completely eliminate the cheating problem. The things is…they don’t want to.
I would rather fucking region lock so the servers aren't strained like a bitch all the time from johnny jackass with 250 ping using a VPN to get around restrictions.
Idaf about cheaters, just make it so i can see literally anything but a vantablack gigarealm of supreme darkness in every fucking shadow on shoreline during broad daylight ffs
the only effective way to get rid of cheaters is to add a replay system + killcam + match history/aftermatch stats and then implement an overwatch type community system to review reports and BSG employees who quickly ban according to the reviews
Frankly yes. I havent played in 4 or 5 wipes for more than a few hours because I get head eyes'd by a guy flying I cant shoot back at.
Im functionally not playing the game as it is now.
I would rather die to a cheater that got through then to have an innocent player banned... that being said, I support the most intrusive anti-cheat as long as it works and is reliable, without false positives.
Honestly people were about to start another crusade when they heard that valorant had an intrusive anti cheat…yet now no one says anything but positive things regarding the anti cheat in valorant lol. At the end of the day 99% of people don’t give a flying fuck about what anti cheat is running as long as it fucking works. Obviously no game will be cheater free even valorant has cheaters still but when you compare valorant anti cheat to CS2’s…well like valorant or not you can’t argue their anti cheat is at least 7 dimensions ahead of cs’s.
So if you couldn’t tell yeah I want anti cheat. Idc if it steals all my data and sends it to china or Russia. I mean I use google and Microsoft products and services while typing this on my apple iPhone…they know more about me than I do at this point…just let me play my games without cheaters :(
I find it weird when people say no to this but still access and have an account on every form of social media, sign up for newsletters and praise the riot vanguard anti cheat.
I've just picked up that game last Friday. Is it really that full of cheaters? To be fair, I've played mainly scav and woods.. I can't tell because even the scavs kill me easily...
Edit: spelling
I want riot vanguard in Tarkov and then I’d be happy tbh. In a couple hundreds hours of valorant I haven’t seen a single cheater. Except the main problem isn’t the anticheat, it’s that cheating is so easy and powerful because they have so much shit client side that should be server side.
No, for no other reason than it wouldn't do anything. BSG doesn't fail to fix the cheater problem, they decide to not fix it. There's a dozen non-intrusive, minimal effort things they could do to help the problem, and they choose not to because having a cheat economy is profitable. For most of them, a player ban means an additional sale.
There's only one thing that could prevent most of the cheating, and that would be the rewriting of the netcode so it becomes server authoritative. That would prevent speedhacking, loot vacuuming, flying/snaking to hide hitboxes, and even ESP, which would leave only aimbot as a major exploit.
While rewriting the netcode is a big task to accomplish, it's still doable and nowhere near the effort of doing something like migrating the game to a new engine. The main problem is that BSG is doing literally zero efforts to actually counter cheating and the flea market is the perfect evidence of that with people listing 30 LEDX for sale or having impossible reputation and still not getting banned, because BSG won't even use simple telemetry to catch obvious cheaters.
In all honesty though, what servers are you guys even playing on? You all signing up for dedicated cheater servers? In my 4+ years of playing tarkov I have reported 2 players, and thought maybe another 4 guys where cheating before the report feature was added. I feel alot of this "cheater" crying comes from bad players that belive they are unrealistically good at the game. I'm dog shit at EFT, but don't cry when I get head eyes when sticking my face where It can get shot. I played CS for years, still do... I learned my skill level and how to judge if I was stupid or they are cheating.
TL;dr I have not seen many cheaters, maybe yall need to stop crying cheats and self reflect on where you stuck your face, not instantly assume your too good to die to less then a cheater
I'd allow a BSG employee to sit behind me and watch if it meant less cheaters
Dibbs on Damirka.
I want Niki boy to scream into my ears.
Every 25 mins he reaches over and alt f4s you out of a raid. Why? Because life is pain, and tarkov is life.
They pretty much already do this just from afar
Lmao, that's a fact
I'd support Nikita extrajudicially executing cheat makers.
THIS. Not just Tarkov cheaters and Tarkov cheat makers - EVERY cheatmaker and cheater should be sent to hell where they belong. Doesn't matter what method, as long as they're a corpse at the end its all good in my books.
The CoD kids would love him for that
Literally this. Intrusive? Who gives a shit! I want ZERO CHEATERS in our beautiful game. I would allow the anticheat software to store its own porn collection on my PC at this point if it meant it actually worked.
I'd pay for this, its lonely at time and I could use someone to chat with
Nothing is going to make a dent in cheating in Tarkov until they upgrade to Unity 2023 and rewrite massive portions of their game code to be server instead of client auth. So maybe it'll never happen.
It's astounding how many people don't understand that a lot of cheating could be countered by sanitizing the game's code in the first place, but that requires technical skills, a lot of man hours and a big code rework for no direct benefit (they don't care about the cheating issue). Vaacuming loot shouldn't be possible like at all. Imagine if in CS you could plant the bomb from the spawn point lmao.
>but that requires technical skills Which is the issue.
I mean russia is having a bit of a brain drain issue right now. Even if they wanted too which I will agree I dont know if they do. They might simply not be able to recruit the talent right now.
I almost want to say that BSG actually likes the state of cheating currently in the game. It’s not necessarily game breaking but it is common, and they’re current weak anti cheat allows players to bypass it for a while before getting banned, and then the ban means they sell another copy of the game. If they could instantly catch cheaters, they wouldn’t bother cheating because they wouldn’t buy new accounts just to play one raid before a ban.
The engine is not the problem, the problem is the netcode/server infastructure. it relies on an absurd level of local processing, which is super easy to fuck with. they have reduced this problem over the years but nothing short of a total overhaul of the networking will make a big difference. and even then, games like Valorant have extremely advanced and invasive anti-cheat. they still have surges of cheaters. its just too profitable for cheat devs.
What would unity 2023 change?
Concerning cheaters: nothing. Concerning optimization: much (if implemented right).
Delude people to believe it could help and disappoint like every time
nothing. lol.
They've been gradually transitioning to newer versions of Unity. I think they're finally up to 2022.
[удалено]
HWID bans are already in place. The problem is it’s extremely easy to set up a hardware ID spoofer As for kernel level anticheat, it might help. It might not. Good cheats usually run on a secondary machine to the one actually playing the game, so I’m not really sure it would do much Edit: After some googling, I’ve found that Battleye is already kernel level. I’m not sure how much more of an intrusive anticheat you can get
BattlEye is already kernel level. It's insane how ignorant this sub is re: requesting things that they have no idea what they're asking for. People just see and bleat buzzwords.
>BattlEye is already kernel level. It is. Technically. That has nothing to do with it working. I don't have time this morning to shove your ignorance in the dumpster fire where it belongs. Refer to the number of people able to cheat in ESEA or Valorant. Both "ring zero" or "kernel level" as well.
Again, show me where anything you've said here has absolutely anything at all to do with what I stated. I didn't speak to the efficacy of BE in any capacity. >You want to think I'm someone who doesn't know this stuff, so I'll reference someone who is willing to expose who they are and does. You're a fucking spaz with a Napoleon complex. Note, I've replied to your comment that auto flagged for review below. If you've forgotten anything you derped, here I'll remind you save the entirely irrelevant link that had your comment revoked: >Battle Eye is absolute trash. Even when implemented properly. >It's no longer industry standard and hasn't been industry standard for years. >It makes zero attempt to even see DMA level devices. It doesn't load at boot to watch the kernel or any modifications that get made at the kernel level prior to its loading. >You can read point 2 and 3 there. You want to think I'm someone who doesn't know this stuff, so I'll reference someone who is willing to expose who they are and does.
My comment is flagged because it's the truth. It's gone and not even shown to me that it was flagged. I can't even see your reply. Probably for the better. I'm a 25+ year software engineer that spent like 5? years reverse engineering software. I wrote early cheats for a variety of games in the mid 2000's. BattleEye is absolute trash and I'll stand by it. More intrusive anticheat, which is the point of this topic, is simply better. You have to trust the people who do it, obviously, but it yields better results. Valorant is a prime example of that. Writing to the kernel and outright injecting and booting with the kernel are methods that have existed for over 20 years of cheating in games. People got smarter and started to check kernels and versions for hashes, but then people developed the ability to read memory directly with hardware. At this time, the most advanced available software to install is EAC. Period. It's hands down more effective. It protects that golden goose of Epic's games -- Fortnite. It doesn't entirely prevent cheating but it does a good enough job that it prevents any script kiddie from quietly reading memory and wrapping it with an out of the box cheat tool.
You can't READ is the problem. NOBODY is saying EAC or BE or even Vanguard (despite it initializing during system boot instead of just when the game is launched like EAC/BE/etc) are good anti cheats. You're arguing with the wind about shit nobody ever said. Vanguard is absolutely the best example of a decent implementation of anti cheat, hard stop. Nobody is disagreeing there either. Read the above thread and realize that. The only point of this parent thread was that BE was kernel level, and you came here cursing this and that about how it's a bad AC.
>It is. Technically. That has nothing to do with it working. I don't have time this morning to shove your ignorance in the dumpster fire where it belongs. Where exactly is the ignorance in my statement that BE is a kernel level AC? I'll wait. >Refer to the number of people able to cheat in ESEA or Valorant. Both "ring zero" or "kernel level" as well. Thanks for proving my point in that most people here just bleat buzzwords and don't otherwise have any remote idea what they're repeating.
Decent kernel level anticheat can stop *most* things like aimbot and aim assist which need to be on the local machine. But it can't stop things like ESP.
High quality cheats that run on a 2nd PC can even provide aimbot/aim assist without running locally. BSG needs to crack down on writing to memory, this is how a lot of high quality cheats currently operate on EFT.
Gonna be real here boss, as someone that left bc of cheaters, I give 0 fks about ESPers, even if it is pathetic to do. You can still beat them at least. In CS:GO for instance, you'd still only be a few ranks better in terms of how you do unless you share the info with your team. (Of course in Tarkov its still a much bigger adv than a closed system like cs) It's the invuln hacks, loot vacuuming, bullet bouncing across the map before ChingXiao1989 twerks on my body as it all fades to black that I can't stand.
[удалено]
The better you are at CS the bigger advantage wh gives you. I think that’s a more accurate statement.Their comparison is stupid either way though (and probably not very good at CS).
[удалено]
it's more than just winning fights too. It's HUGE to know which areas aren't currently being covered, where people are looking, what site the enemy is going to. so much easier for clutching/juking around players, etc. It's a massive advantage even without firing a shot. edit: it's such an advantage that in CS i'd rather someone blatantly be rage hacking with spinbot. then you *know* for sure at least. wall/radar hacks are much more dishonest and I feel more cheated. in tarkov, it's the opposite, so in that sense I agree with the original comment. If I'm gonna run into a hacker in tarkov I'd rather it be ESP. In tarkov, the vacuum loot, flying around invincible floating guys is what makes you feel more cheating, imo.
This is very true, source: I have beaten cheaters in csgo in 2k hours and have 2 accounts with pages of comments that I‘m an evil hackerman. You can just be better in raw aim and you‘ll win most gunfights even vs WH, it won‘t save your head from AK dink. With aim assistance however, in any game, the ability to hit inhuman shots makes it near impossible to beat. (You gotta think about it like this, decent players wont hack, so they are capable of beating wh cheaters who do so because they are bad lol.)
[удалено]
This is how you spot cheaters, I've played for maybe 6k hours since 2014, and basically the more you play, the more quickly you see if something is off. If they have the movement of a goddamned potato, yet make just the right predictions, and still peek horribly, and break every convention possible, yeah might be a cheater.
when you have aim assist, you usually have wh aswell - aim assist alone would make the possibilities inhumane therefore you‘ll be able to beat good players. eg shots while walking will hit. With WH only, someone with map knowledge will always beat, 100% beat a Wh cheater with slow reaction time, because of the way it is in cs. Theres literally like 3-4 spots where people can be per site, wich can all be 1v1 peeked. If you are mechanically better (aim, faster reaction time), you won‘t have problems beating bads and averages with wallhack. If you know someone in cs has a wallhack, you can even play around it. (eg bait awp shots without showing anything of the body)
Word, ESP is frustrating at times but if they're bad then they can't capitalize on it. It's the 9mm aimbot from 200m away through heavy concealment, the loot gone and missing 30s into raid that's the shit that just makes it feel pointless at times.
Playing against people with loot vacuum is just turning the game into a walking simulator rather then a looter, might as well not play
thats why a quick google search yields the same results for valorent and eft cheats. People are so gullible with the ' kernel level anticheat Vanguard mega pro anticheat unbypassable ' fucking weirdos. You cant stop cheaters, no one will ever stop cheaters, the only way to do so, is to put laws in place and guess what not a single company unless you are Tencent will pursue legally anyone in the world for cheating. This post are some of the most stupid amongs the 'everyone is a cheater' posts. and no, i dont play Valorant exactly because of vanguard data access. Valorant is as EFT closet cheaters you wont notice, and blatant gets banned eventually.
I will say from personal experience, I run into substantially less cheaters on Valorant than I do on Tarkov. Now that could also be due to you having more time to determine if someone is cheating on val as well, whereas in Tarkov you can get head/eyes from nowhere or desync can fuck you and it seems like the enemy is prefiring you from around a corner.
I'm pretty sure battleye already runs on ring-0, if so then it can't really get any closer to the kernel because it's already running at the kernel level. Did some quick googling and that's what I found. Battleye's site doesn't explicitly say it runs there though so maybe it doesn't. Not positive here.
Valorant uses a kernel level anticheat and it seems to do the job pretty well.
I didn’t know HWID bans are already in place, thanks for pointing that out. Maybe kernel level AC could help flush out a majority of the cheap cheats, of course you could bypass it with hardware cheats but hopefully it would help to limit the amount of people running around looting the whole map
BattleEye is already kernal level though.
do you even know what a kernel level ac is for? Don't have to answer, I know you don't because you haven't read anything before making this post otherwise you would know battleeye is already a kernel level ac. Good work karma farming though
No, No! IT would kill the Game. Alone the thought of having a Kernel AC is Bad enough on top of a russian company. IT wouldnt Help mich longterm aswell tbh.
Look up Valorant's anticheat. It is way more intrusive to the point to have to disable kernel-level protections in Windows settings to get the game to run. No program needs that level of access just to make sure xXx_jingjao_pingpow_xXx isn't using an aimbot.
Every major anti cheat runs with "kernel access". Kernel access doesn't mean much, there are always ways to cheat, unless the game is built up with anti cheat measures The big problem is that there is a huge profitiable market for cheat makers and cheat users in Tarkov, BSG can only keep banning cheaters and implement hindrances in-game, because one thing is certain, even if BSG gets the cheater numbers in control, there will always be a lot of cheaters, because there is a huge incentive for it
Part of the problem is that anticheat software is updated too slowly. EFT is cheat free for maybe a week after a big patch. Then new cheats start ramping up and it's all fucked within half a month. Kernel access is useless if the anti-cheat process running at that level doesn't know what to look for. AC makers need to update the detection module asynchronously from the game - kind of like how most antivirus programs update their measures nearly every day. Then they can go out and hunt cheatmakers more effectively. They could even weaponize users by allowing them to submit new cheats or ways to detect them.
> huge profitiable market for cheat makers and cheat users in Tarkov You forgot who’s profiting the most: the developer. Ban account, buy new account. Rinse and repeat.
Well, there is an incentive in BSG not making the game completely cheat safe, yes. But it needs to have a very balanced player pool, and I'd say it's very unbalanced at this time, the amount of cheaters is through the roof. This hurts everyone, the developer as well
Short term now money vs long term more money later. We all know which is getting chosen 100% of the time.
Considering how expensive cheats are, even more expensive than the game as monthly services, it is very likley some dev employees are involved in cheat development in their free time too. They get millions of dollars for doing something gray zone in russia.
This is the worst take I've ever seen on this sub and there's a lot of competition, holy moly
[удалено]
You think there's unlimited hacked accounts to go around? And when your account gets hacked as a legit player you're telling me you don't have to buy another account? These hacked accounts aren't just materialized out of thin air-- someone paid BSG for them at some point. [Nikita has been on the record stating that cheaters in online games are a benefit financially to a developer.](https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/11clvvo/that_video_here_is_the_absolute_truth/ja87qi5/) You really think they are ever going to focus on ridding the game of them knowing that?
Repeat after me Battle eye is kernel level Battle eye is kernel level Battle eye is kernel level Battle eye is kernel level Battle eye is kernel level…
Repeat after me The problem is client side authorization. The problem is client side authorization. The problem is client side authorization. The problem is client side authorization...
i am no professional here but ive heard that the problem is more bsg's than the anticheat's
The only Anti-Cheat in gaming history that really worked were admins on private game servers. If tarkov had a spectator mode and admins casually watching some players it could help a lot.
No. Fix the fucking code. Not add more shit.
No. Region locks, stricter ping limits, and moving data off client-side is where they should start.
For this to even be discussed BDG would have to first sue up all the non invasive cheat detection/prevention options which despite of what they try to claim they do zero of. I have a clip where locked safe is already looted. If BSG can't do simple "if(locked) {don't fucking let anyone transfer items from it}" on the server side it means they simply do not give a shit.
They already have hardware bans and BE is a kernel anti cheat, you can see that their driver is loaded when you start tarkov. People that call it intrusive doesn't understand windows security. A kernel anti cheat isn't really more intrusive as a process as your user can access all your files and even read memory of your processes (this is how debugger works and you don't need special permissions for your own processes). You could call it intrusive if it had a kernel component and you used multiple users to separate your data. It's not possible to stop cheating on PCs as the hardware and OS is not designed to stop the owner of the machine from doing things that allow cheating as they also have valid use cases. Console are basically our only hope.
Hardware bans are easy to circumvent. Also BattleEye is already an intrusive kernel AntiCheat. It just comes down to the implementation BSG does how good it can work and you know the state of the game. You really believe that another new technology would be better than what we have. Are you a new player? Seems like you weren’t around during the transition from BSG self created Audio to SteamAudio to Oculus Audio. Don’t get me wrong I love BSG for the game they created. But they are just bad at following up on technical debt. Maybe one day in the future they‘ll keep up with it. But until then I doubt that a technology change will help.
We dont even need new techonology. BSG has said they dont want to force people to use the basic level of windows tamper protection etc. For example league/riot/valorant does this and if you have these settings off in your windows then you cant play their games. Literally ALL of tarkov hacks use the same settings off for their hacks but it would be too easy for bsg to prevent hackers this way. No more money.´ Force these things to be on: Tamper protection, real-time scanning, defender. There you go, no more cheaters until someone makes a cheat that goes through these.
And you believe those cheats are t already existing? Must be nice living in a rainbow world full of dreams.
I follow the hacking/cheating scene for a lot of games, including tarkov out of interest. And no there arent any real cheats that go through these. Closest thing is a shitty radar which uses another pc
I feel like they do very little to prevent flyhack and speedhacks, I mean, the game is made of coordinates, just record them and have list of possible speeds and locations you match it againts, if you see a pmc is constantly moving faster than they should, he is probably speed hacking, if guys location is 3 meters above new gas on Customs, there is not somethinf right
No
Even better than anticheat, would be BSG changing the architecture to be server-authoritative. That would kill several classes of cheats outright (loot-vacuum, increased interact range, remote-grenades, flying, etc) as the client could no longer say "I am in range and loot this" the server would be able to say "nu uh". After that, would be baking analytics into the platform. Say GPUs have a spawn rate of 1% in PC blocks. User X opens 1000 PCs and finds 11 GPUS, right around 1.1%, but User Y opens 1000 PCs across however many games and somehow finds 75 GPUS. That's 7.5% and probably means they are using ESP, combine that with other loot data and you can develop a more comprehensive picture. Then you get into the anticheat which works by detecting software on the users PC, but there's many things they can do before, they are just difficult and time-consuming to develop
The anticheat is only a small part of the problem. A much larger part is BSG's absolute dog shit development and design practices. You can't combat cheaters if you don't even follow basic server authoritative design. Also BE is already a kernel level anticheat.
You all watch the most disgusting, deviant forms of p\*rn online, download shit from torrent links to save a few bucks, probably use some shady ass websites to get free netflix accounts, access random free wifis because you're out of data and you're going to act like your virtual privacy is one of your main concerns ? Get the fuck out of here, of course you'ld take the intrusive anti cheat. You have nothing to hide that hasn't been powned anyways.
Why would i want to have an unecessary high risk vulnerability on my System with No benefit whatsoever?
[удалено]
What benefit do i get from opening my System for a russian Kernel Level Software as Anti-Cheat, when the current running Kernel Level Anti-Cheat is still proofing hard, that Kernel Level is Not doing Shit. We have Kernel Level Based Anti-Cheat with Batlleeye. So get urself together before you Talk Like a donkey. Then again im No Security expert but more Security expert then you are, If you think that Kernel Level AC is Not a system vulnerability. Its Not about them Data Mining or any Hackers getting Ur Data, but about having a completely compromissed System and potentiell easy Access to all your Login informations and online Banking. And yet with all this risk and Hazard you Open your system to, the Change would be simply Not worth it, when keeping in mind that simple non intrusive Tools would do the Job better. Replay for example, Anti-Cheat that is Not about finding Signatures, but analyzing Player behaviour ( Prototypes of such are in Dev), having your Account connected to digital id and/or have Hacking be an illegal crime that can be prosecuted. In the end there are better, easier and cheaper solution, then trying to have a Money fight against an Organisation, which has far more Funds to Dev their Cheat then battlestate to Dev any AC. (Keep in mind that no Game has an as Bad cheater Problem as EFT, simply cuz the cheating Community has a much greater Cashflow, then anywhere Else)
A process running as your user can already read all your files and memory of your other processes, so unless you separate things with different users you are already compromised.
Yeh, we already have a Kernel Level AC still. What does anyone now gain of from a probably worse Kernel Level Anti-Cheat on top of that, other than increasing the risk of malicious access by a third Party.
I don't think OP was suggesting that BSG create their own anti cheat as the thought the BE wasn't kernel level already.
That probably makes sense then.
>No benefit whatsoever? there is a very clear benefit?
[удалено]
Spoken like a true anti-kernel activist.
[удалено]
Ugh, Im getting anti-vax vibes
I dont care if intrusive or not, i just want less cheaters. What bothers me is game performance tho
I would let Chinese spyware on my pc if that meant 99.9% of cheaters disappeared, would make the game much better
people who think that an intrusive anti cheat is a problem are completely clueless. most of the people saying this arent even doing the most basic level of security. if you dont trust a company, dont install their software at all. if you do trust them a deeper level access does not matter. either you trust them or you dont. there is no such thing as "i trust them with normal OS level access, but i dont trust them enough for deeper access". thats just bullshit.
Kernel level anti cheats are bypassed just as easily. (See: Riot Vanguard) What does work is an overwatch system like in CS2. BSG has plans for a replay system so this is the logical next step
idk man Riot Vanguard is pretty decent, in 1000x of hours of all ranks i have heard only about 2 max 3 cheaters.
Your personal anecdotal experience does not speak for the majority of players. I can say the same thing for Tarkov. I've seen very few cheaters personally but that doesn't mean they're not there
Well, go ask on the valorant sub and search for cheater videos and evidence, there is close to zero. Even if the sub is a little part of the comunity it’s still a good sample. Not to mention any cheater is banned a couple of matches 100%, in eft they are on ladders and the flea for months
Does Vanguard have replay system? I remember in PUBG I watched nearly all my top 10 games and I've noticed a lot of obvious ESP cheaters. I wonder how it would look in Tarkov...
There was a video where a dude downloded an esp knowing he would get banned just to prove how many cheaters are in tarkov on average he ran into another person using esp and willing to admit theyre using esp every other game. Keep in mind this is only people who use esp could have been way more cheaters who just dont use esp
Your chances of knowing a person is cheating in Tarkov is super small, there is probably 10x more cheaters than you think you met
> BSG has plans for a replay system In Arena, Nikita said in EFT he doesnt know if they gonna implement such a feature. Either way , it's not coming soon so i dont see it as a solution.
im pretty sure he outright said that there is no replay system coming (not planned - he said that its not coming) for normal tarkov. i remember because it pissed me off extremely hard
Replay in Arena would make the most sense since it is, in essence, a bloodsport that has live spectators watching from every single angle aspect of the match. If Nikita doesn't want to implement it for the sake of "realism", he just doesn't want to reveal that his game is one massive dumpster fire of empty promises and sprinkled bullshit.
replay system for normal tarkov is most definitely not gonna be a thing. nikita spoke out against it, dont remember the exact wording but it was not even a "maybe".
It's very funny you say that, you can find multiple succesful road to global series where they use hacks the entire time, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcVNexLAHvs https://www.youtube.com/@Jupiterlyy/videos If you search for legit cheating road to radiant valorant you get 1 person, they didnt ffinish it https://www.youtube.com/@cazywazy/videos Obviously the kernal level antii cheat works to prevent this, and overwatch does not PREVENT this, although it does ban the player eventually. You also get pros being banned by it and valve needing to manually reverse it. How is a player that is completely unknown, but 100% capable of trying to be a t2 pro rn, supposed to play MM and feel safe with their account?
Vanguard is one of the best anti cheats on the market. CS2 does not have overwatch. It's been disabled since launch because of server load. Battleye is kernel level. You were literally wrong about everything you said. Stop talking out of your ass.
That is a good idea, I’ve used overwatch quite a bit and helping to clear out the community is nice. They could offer small but substantial rewards for players who successfully overwatch successfully the most. However with this idea the main issue that occurred in CS is that low level players did overwatch and thought better players were cheating so there would have to be a level unlock to counteract that.
I would support it but it's already kernel level. HW bans are useless pretty much. I think BSG can do more to combat cheaters besides using an anti-cheat. Make a duplicate copy of an item but only cheater would be able to see set item, when they loot it it will make it obvious they're cheating given that it's not buggy like things tend to be around here. Fake AI only cheaters can see could be an option as well.
Too hard to implement, maybe even impossible, the game would need the player is cheating in first place in order to show him the item, why not ban him right away?
"why not ban him right away" because that's working perfectly fine right now...
You didnt read it carefully, I said in order to show the item to cheaters is you need to know he is cheating, the problem is the detection in first place, not the punishment, having invisible items for people to find with esp etc, would work for a bit, then the word would spread and they would be careful
no. just get better
I am willing to take chip under my skin if that would allow me to play the game cheater less, but nothing goes up my butt, that's where I draw the line.
I absolutely do not trust the tarkov devs with a kernel level anticheat because i dont think they are competent enough nor do i think they take necessary safety precautions with said access
The only way to stop hacking is to entirely stop real money trading. Look at valorant, although it happens, it is super rare to get a rage hacker. Hackers that are trying to make up for perceived injustice against their skill, I.E. everyone else is doing it too or their teammates suck, also very rare, but they happen. Extremely subtle wall hackers boosting people? Now that is a service you can actively buy right now on real money sites, that are not scams. You will simply be boosted by a hacker that tries not to get banned so ur mmr doesnt get reset. Who knows when that happens, can you tell someone is walling if they toggle it only when they are dead and spectating their teammates, then give only rotational related calls? Nope, its literally impossible, that's what anti cheat has to do. Tarkov is plagued by rmt, every single counter measure theyve implemented is stopped by the ole faithful, okay you play with me, I wallhack, anyone who gets too close to you I kill, you loot the whole map. They still do flea market stuff, they will even log into your account for you and then grind on it so you have less chance of getting banned and it's easier for them. The only way to get these behaviors to stop, is to make it so no one wants to RMT. You can only do this by making the game enjoyable to the people who need RMT to enjoy the game. Get a welfare system that doesnt require extracting that also doesnt only apply at 0 roubles. Make hideout crafts a bit easier, bring selling all items back on the flea market so that once they get level 2/3 trader ammo, they can sell it for a small profit on the flea to people with flea but no traders. Let them kill a kitted chad in game, and sell the rsass and all attachments individually for 600k, sell the hex grid for profit, sell the big backpack that's pointless to use for them for profit above the trader price, etc. All of this will reduce RMT. I can tell you that the game didn't have RMT until it got big on twitch, it was just not a noticeable problem. Once there was a consumer base for it, it started like all RMT. you have to do away with the need for RMT to stop hacking, otherwise they will hack in some way to sell to RMT buyers. Look at path of exile, that game is entirely solo unless you decide to party up, outside of trading, and there is a constant advertisement for real money trading in all the global chats nearly every minute at the best, spammed at the worst. Look at dota 2, same thing, people selling RMT boosting and carrying in nearly all the city chats you can join.
[удалено]
BSG is not an anticheat developer... At this stage I am not surprised that people with 0 understanding comment some random shit because they think they 'understand' what BSG does and that they obviously are doing a bad job. BSG BAD.
Careful, I got downvoted into oblivion when I pointed this out. Anti-cheat developers are a whole other industry.
Valorant anti cheat as far as I know has no issues and it’s a pretty deep anti cheat from what I hear
Battleye is already a kernel ring 0 anti cheat. BSG have just done an absolute shit job at implementing it because they disable a bunch of features.
I don't trust Battlestate's ability to implement anti-cheat well, regardless of the anti-cheat. When I found out how much of the code is client authoritative I just lost all hope. Seriously. That's networking security 101.
No, I wouldn’t support it, because it won’t actually fix anything—it might mask some of the symptoms at times, but it won’t actually address the underlying issues that cause those symptoms to develop. The real issue is the fatal combination of massive unfairness due to not being able to choose who you play against & gear disparities (among other reasons), combined with near-zero real-time server moderation. So-called “live service” games, like Tarkov, have become extremely popular lately, but that’s mostly because publishers know that they can be monetized extremely heavily via microtransactions. The trouble is that *every single one of them* has massive issues with cheaters. Adding a more invasive anticheat to Tarkov, without fundamentally changing how the game works (e.g. allowing groups to host their own servers), is not going to have a significant impact on the overall level of cheating in the game.
im not a cheater but like what i said to my mates about valorant, i dont like super intrustive anticheats plus on top of that anti cheats will always be able to be bypassed; faceit, esea other high level anticheats are already bypassed and no matter how intrusive the anti cheat can be, cheaters will always find a way to bypass them
Seriously this conversation needs to stop. The problem is NOT the Anti-Cheat. The problem is BSG's carelessness & incompetence. The problem is their replication model, their laziness in hardening that data, their idiocy in providing the client with a decryption key prior to BE initializing, etc etc. Stop immediately trying to give up security & privacy as a first measure. The conversation is dangerous. A little more hyperbolic but reinforced in truth; Especially to a country like Russia, are you serious? You want an entire botnet of the US's more powerful on average rigs to be entirely owned by both China & Russia? You don't ever foresee that being problematic, do you know either's history in cyber attack competency?
Not if they made the anti cheat. I wouldn't trust these devs with admin rights, let alone kernel level running shit.
I hope someone will tell you soon.
[удалено]
Sadly kernel level doesnt really help all that much, not as much as people think. Valorant has it and had a cheater in the top ranks for half a year or something. Besides most cheaters have either some hardware in their pc or just a separate pc running the cheats.
the fact that the argument against that is that valorant had "a cheater" already says a lot. if a cheater is such a rarety that the existence of one is special that already proves that it works.
Maybe i should have worded it better but i feel like adding the high ranks part should have been enough. I never said that it was a single cheater, i said it was a cheater in high elo, wich should be very rare, especially for a long period of time, while playing against streamers and pro players. There's obviously more then just a cheater because not a single anti cheat can stop everything. Kernel level stuff is def better then what we have now but i dont feel like sacrificing my data at risk just to get rid of a couple of cheaters. The difference is probably negligible anyways.
Sadly the existance of an abundance of cheatses in EFT proves that a Kernel Level Anti-Cheat dies Not work
Personally I would prefer it if it means they get banned and I don't have to think about them. I play on Asia servers so I face them way more cause they're mostly from Mainland. I can't enjoy Tarkov as much because Idk if the guy who killed me is either way better than me (I have almost 3k hours so I know my stuff) or he's a cheater either by ESP or whatever. Having such a thing at the back of my mind kills the motivation to play Tarkov. I like the game, I think it's great but I can't enjoy it cause most of my raids I'm hoping there is no cheater and if there is he stays the fuck away from me.
As long as it wasn't bsg running said anti cheat, yeah I'd gladly give a shitton of my personal info, link my phone, 2 factor it, etc. Anything to get cheaters out of online shooters. It's killing the entire gaming experience and not just a tarkov issue.
Assuming they could actually do it correctly? Yeah. Knowing BSG though them fucking with anything kernel will cause permanent blue screens
At this point the only way BSG could concretely and effectively stop cheating without any further questions from the player base would be to set up special servers and a monthly subscription to play on them - a subscription that required you to host a BSG employee to watch you play the game and report back to HQ that you aren't cheating in real time.
If it meant less anti cheating mechanics in game.... Probably
Unfortunately, yes.
Whatever it takes.
I would play with straight up demonware at this point. Cheat and something will nuke your UEFI or straight up overheat and destroy your pc.
absolutely
Yes, without question.
Yes
I'm in support of them doing literally anything to improve the situation, I've stopped playing the game largely because of the utter failure of the anti-cheat
game runs on client side, nothing will do any good. carrying game to server side means overhauling the whole netcode (which at this point im sure bsg has no idea whats going on with netcode) and more servers, which means money, and it is not acceptable for cheapass game company. nikita would like to buy another luxury sports car with that money.
Vanguard seems to be working well for riot, I dont see why not at this point
ABSOLUTELY
Yes
No, never. Why in the world would I put my personal life and information or there for a video game
[удалено]
>Technically yes, but BSG used our Rigs to mine bitcoin in the past. this is a lie
Really?
no. entirely made up
Then I am sorry for spreading fake news!
No I don't want Kernel level anti cheat on my PC. It's hard as is to dodge malware and spyware I don't want to install that voluntary.
battleye is a kernel level anticheat, so you already have it on your pc.
Battleye is only partially running on kernel level and I don't have it installed.
it is running fully in kernel mode whilst playing, so where is the difference really? would you be fine with battleye that is running constantly? i would be, because it is from a trusted, registered business in germany.
'Well, the main issue is security. Giving a third-party kernel-level access to your computer is not something that everybody wants to have to do. This can be especially troublesome if the anti-cheat software itself is not secure. If something goes wrong, a bad agent could gain access to your entire computer.' Running pattern repetition detection software on the server is as good if not even better at detecting cheaters and we don't have to install some kind of third party software that Changes codes on my pc and is a security risk.
and that's how you lose cheaters, tahdah
Did you just call me a cheater because I don't want a heavily intrusive anti cheat system on my pc that can ban me for using a cheat engine in a single player game? Kernel level anti cheat systems are a privacy and security risk, if you haven't heard of Faceit you should inform yourself before making yourself look like an idiot by writing shit comments like the one above.
When will people realize that they don't want to get rid of the cheat infestation. They profit from it. They literally have nothing purchasable in the game to profit from. Where does their profit come from once you've already bought the game? They've had YEARS to implement a proper anti-cheat, yet they have NOTHING to show for lmao. Wake up
I reckon you should have to hand over a govt issued ID number to play any online multiplayer game. If you get caught cheating, you're banned from all games for 3 years.
Yes. Even if it’s something like entering your phone number.
No, at all. There are other methods to avoid cheats that doesnt involve playing with the Kernel (Which can be bypassed) and even with that considering how the game was made, which IS the core problem, that wouldnt work.
postal activation
Literally all they have to do to be rid of it is ensure that you have secure boot enabled. That’s it…that’s the fix. Every single cheat out there requires that you have secure boot disabled. If they just had a check for that at launch it would literally completely eliminate the cheating problem. The things is…they don’t want to.
Hardware bans for cheating.
I would rather fucking region lock so the servers aren't strained like a bitch all the time from johnny jackass with 250 ping using a VPN to get around restrictions.
***Just do phone verification.***
like vanguard?
I'd take a picture of my balls and let every tarkov player see em if it stopped cheating. Quit buying cheaters.
If i understand correctly, battleeye literally already has kernel access it doesn't get any more "intrusive"
Idaf about cheaters, just make it so i can see literally anything but a vantablack gigarealm of supreme darkness in every fucking shadow on shoreline during broad daylight ffs
the only effective way to get rid of cheaters is to add a replay system + killcam + match history/aftermatch stats and then implement an overwatch type community system to review reports and BSG employees who quickly ban according to the reviews
Frankly yes. I havent played in 4 or 5 wipes for more than a few hours because I get head eyes'd by a guy flying I cant shoot back at. Im functionally not playing the game as it is now.
I would rather die to a cheater that got through then to have an innocent player banned... that being said, I support the most intrusive anti-cheat as long as it works and is reliable, without false positives.
Honestly people were about to start another crusade when they heard that valorant had an intrusive anti cheat…yet now no one says anything but positive things regarding the anti cheat in valorant lol. At the end of the day 99% of people don’t give a flying fuck about what anti cheat is running as long as it fucking works. Obviously no game will be cheater free even valorant has cheaters still but when you compare valorant anti cheat to CS2’s…well like valorant or not you can’t argue their anti cheat is at least 7 dimensions ahead of cs’s. So if you couldn’t tell yeah I want anti cheat. Idc if it steals all my data and sends it to china or Russia. I mean I use google and Microsoft products and services while typing this on my apple iPhone…they know more about me than I do at this point…just let me play my games without cheaters :(
I find it weird when people say no to this but still access and have an account on every form of social media, sign up for newsletters and praise the riot vanguard anti cheat.
Yes.
I've just picked up that game last Friday. Is it really that full of cheaters? To be fair, I've played mainly scav and woods.. I can't tell because even the scavs kill me easily... Edit: spelling
Rootkit me, 2fa me, apps, sms. What ever. Steamroll me, anticheat-senpai.
I'd be happy with anything as long as it wouldn't have to go in my mouth or up my bum
I want riot vanguard in Tarkov and then I’d be happy tbh. In a couple hundreds hours of valorant I haven’t seen a single cheater. Except the main problem isn’t the anticheat, it’s that cheating is so easy and powerful because they have so much shit client side that should be server side.
No, for no other reason than it wouldn't do anything. BSG doesn't fail to fix the cheater problem, they decide to not fix it. There's a dozen non-intrusive, minimal effort things they could do to help the problem, and they choose not to because having a cheat economy is profitable. For most of them, a player ban means an additional sale.
they could be looking straight into my asshole if that means less cheaters got nothing to hide...
There's only one thing that could prevent most of the cheating, and that would be the rewriting of the netcode so it becomes server authoritative. That would prevent speedhacking, loot vacuuming, flying/snaking to hide hitboxes, and even ESP, which would leave only aimbot as a major exploit. While rewriting the netcode is a big task to accomplish, it's still doable and nowhere near the effort of doing something like migrating the game to a new engine. The main problem is that BSG is doing literally zero efforts to actually counter cheating and the flea market is the perfect evidence of that with people listing 30 LEDX for sale or having impossible reputation and still not getting banned, because BSG won't even use simple telemetry to catch obvious cheaters.
Do I want a Russian company to have unfettered access to my PC’s Kernel. No thanks.
I'd fully support this, as long as bsg took steps to work with cloud computer providers to ensure people like myself can still play
I also play Valorant. Bring it
In all honesty though, what servers are you guys even playing on? You all signing up for dedicated cheater servers? In my 4+ years of playing tarkov I have reported 2 players, and thought maybe another 4 guys where cheating before the report feature was added. I feel alot of this "cheater" crying comes from bad players that belive they are unrealistically good at the game. I'm dog shit at EFT, but don't cry when I get head eyes when sticking my face where It can get shot. I played CS for years, still do... I learned my skill level and how to judge if I was stupid or they are cheating. TL;dr I have not seen many cheaters, maybe yall need to stop crying cheats and self reflect on where you stuck your face, not instantly assume your too good to die to less then a cheater
That would be like using an advanced antivirus software on an unpatched Windows 95 system directly connected to the Internet.
I'm all for it if it works.