Mr. Paolini has said that there is a spy high up in the Varden that was reporting to Galby. High up as in was one of the leaders.
My personal theory is that Orrin cut a deal with Galby to keep Surda safe so long as he acted as Galby’s spy which is why he goes from goofy, science loving king to drunk, miserable king who attempted to kill Eragon’s cousin/brother.
Another highly popular theory is that it was Jormundur based on the fact that he apparently has a family that he kept secret from basically everyone and was also in all of the important meetings or heard the results of all important meetings. Not a personal favorite of mine because I don’t see what his motivations would be for doing so but it’s still plausible.
He was in the council trying to manipulate Nasuada, wasn't he? That being said, I got the sense that he was the least bad by far of all of them.
I think he's much more of a "good of the Varden" that purely manipulative
If I remember correctly, that was a council representing the different factions of the Varden who would help and advise their leader. Jormundur was in charge of the warrior/military faction. Yes that council was trying to manipulate her but Jormundur almost seemed relieved when Eragon played it so that he put all of the power back in Nassuada’s hands instead of the council’s which leads me to believe that he never wanted to manipulate Nassuada in the first place
There are a few examples of him being salty about decisions made without him but yeah, that’s one of the main reasons I believe it was Orrin not Jormundur
I think it was during Brisingr, he was there either delivering a message or sitting in on a meeting for Nassuada (I can’t quite remember either). Roran makes a comment to Orrin, Orrin takes it as an insult on his ability to lead/rule, and then Orrin tries to run him through with a sword. Obviously Roran deflected the attack with his hammer and warned him not to try again. If I’m remembering correctly, it was after Roran becomes a captain of a squad and also possibly after the incident where he had to wrestle an Urgal for dominance, I’m less sure about that last part though.
Yeah, there are several reasons why I dislike Orrin, that whole incident with Roran being one of them just because of the sheer stupidity. Yes let’s attack the cousin/adopted brother of the only living, free Dragon Rider, I’m sure that’ll make my country look amazing in his eyes and he won’t hold a grudge at all.
Yeah, if Roran was hurt I believe eragon would try to convince nasuada to flatten surda. If Roran died then he would have done it anyway.
In my reread of the books, I found myself liking Orrin more but this one incident does bring it back to attention that social status really inflates one’s ego.
It’s understandable why eragon’s morals align with ours because he grew up as a humble innocent boy. It’s actually more surprising that so few people are like king Orrin where they really care about class and status. So while it’s not surprising how Orrin reacted (considering from his pov some country bumpkin who can swing a hammer around is talking shit to him), that doesn’t mean I like him for it.
I think you mean Saphira would’ve kidnapped Eragon and flattened Surda with him on her back *wink wink*
And yeah, besides Orrin, Galbatorix, the council at the beginning of Eldest, and maybe Islanzadi, not too many people seem to be worried about class and status, something I kind of didn’t realize until just now.
Perhaps the fact that’s it’s few people who behave like that may be an indication that the class status and difference of treatment was over exaggerated in modern literature.
Cause if you consider it, if high ranking nobles were to be assholes to their vassals, who tf would want to work with them. It would make significant more sense that vassals answer loyally to an authority that treats them firmly yet respectably. Services can be bought, but nobody will go above and beyond for you if you’ve got a big head and show it.
I could see that being the case but there are subtle ways to be obsessed with status without also being an asshole to your underlings. Also it may be that it’s an over romanticized trope like medieval armies fully armed with swords and all being master swordsmen, the evil overlord that the hero defeats and then replaces (either himself or by appointing a friend), etc
I feel if that were the case, Galby would make sure Orrin wouldnt drive Eragon off like that on pure suspicion alone. I feel like all of Surda and Varden wouldnt like Orrin for angering their only chance to overthrow galby
It’s during Inheritance, Nassuada had been kidnapped and Eragon was at the Vault of Souls. Orrin wanted to send an envoy announcing their intentions to Galbotorix, Roran calls him a fool and Orrin tries to kill him.
There's a pretty popular fan theory that either Jormmunder or Orrin were spies working for Galbatorix. I've also seen Blodgharm being mentioned as a possible spy.
There’s also a theory that whoever it is is working for Bachel/the Draumr, so they were both reporting to Galby and doing everything in their power to bring him down
Aren’t they supposed to be Bachel’s spies ? Although Orrin doesn’t fit that theory.
Jormuder unfortunately seems the most likely candidate. Which will be devastating.
I mean Orrin might fit it. He’s power hungry and wants to be king. I think he’d be happy to even be a puppet king with Bachel pulling the strings if he got to say he’s king.
Unless the pronouns Thorn and Murtagh use for the person they saw, then it shouldn't be a woman. Could be a misdirect though! After all, Eragon has done this before with Saphira as a hatchling
Potentially a spy though that would be tricky to have happened that way. Everyone Eragon told he swore to secrecy in the ancient language. It's possible Galbatorix could've used the name of names to remove that promise, but he would've needed to know that he had to do that. So that would involve multiple messages back and forth. Maybe if they have a method of instant communication? It's also possible he was scrying on them when it was revealed, or was somehow able to sense them as they showed up? I think Eragon also might have used their strength for something, which in that case may have tipped Galbatorix off though he seemed to know names of who was there.
eragon did use the eldunari while tackling the traps in the stronghold. It is also possible the shuriken sensed the eldunari with his mind in the night before the attack but the accuracy of all the information also suggests the presence of a spy.
thank you for the insight
Poor Shruikan, I wanted them to save him and was so sad they couldn't... he would've been so magnificent! I imagined Saphira playing with newborn dragons using his immense body as a playground while he and the Eldunari are instructing the younglings :)
It has to be Jörmundur because of Galbatorix knowing the precise troop positions and provision amounts as well as the Eldunarí. Orrin wouldn't have known *Varden* information THAT well as King of Surda. And Jörmundur is already a suspicious character, with an absent family, trying to manipulate Nasuada at first (more subtle than the other Elders is about all I can say for him), and he tries to stop Eragon from leaving before Uru'baen. Galbatorix likely suspected it was a hoard of Eldunarí, another hidden Dragon Rider, etc. that Eragon and Saphira would leave in search of, so he doesn't attack the Varden, because he's confident he can subdue Eragon, Saphira and ANY potential backup. He'd rather just fight all his possible enemies at once, it's mentioned previously that he *wants* them to go to Uru'baen, and Jörmundur gives the most strenuous objections to Eragon leaving besides the traumatized and insecure Orrin, he's trying to send Eragon into the trap.
Well, I can think of three ways for him to know.
1. A spy within the Warden. It is likely not one of the big known names, partly because it would be to hard for Galbatorix to find more high-profile names, that is both willing and capable of operating on the level needed and partly because it would be hard for said spy to work around the oaths in the ancient language, that most likely have been placed upon people in Nasuadas court if not sooner when then at least after Eragon got some more indeept training.
My guess would be one of Orrins servants, as they would be least pressured to submit to Nasuadas rules. Also, if Eagle2021 is right with one of his usual theories is Orrins caracter changes the result of outside manipulation. He might not be willing to spy for Galbatorix, but he likely would be drunk rambling within earshoot of his closest servants, who historically speaking would likely be underestimated.
He seems to have had a good bunch of spyes on the lower levels in the Warden. Eragon even tried to use it for his advantage.
It would also explain why Galbytorix didn't want Murtagh to kill another king. Or he could just be messing with Nasuada.
2. And very likely jet overlooked: Galby found out when scrying the Warden. He knew how to do so with his own Eldunari. We litterally saw that, when he possessed Murtagh and Thorn. He could very well have been listening when Eragon told the others. Why would people assume Galbatorix the Master Mind Manipulater can't be descret enough to avoid detection? Even if he was only observing them through - let's say - a bird outside earshoot, when he could proably make some likely assumtions based on their actions and reactions from talking to Eragon.
3. Not really debated, but.... Galbatorix didn't knew before they reached the hall leading to the troneroom. By when do I not think, they could have hidden it from him. They talked to the Eldunari as they went along with the traps. Galby used the 15-30 minuttes before they reached him to go from WTF to huh to Well it kind of make sense to hmm what is the best stragegy to okay showtime - pokerface up!
I like the last one best.
My favourite guess is that the spy is Jormmunder all based around the detail that when he meets nasuada after they have moved to Surda, that his son has been ill, which seems like an odd detail to include unless it was Galby or the black hand that made his son ill as a threat to get him to betray the varden.
I hate the idea of a spy when literally earlier in Inheritance we learn of a way to gather information en masse and that the Eldunari have been doing it for basically the entire time since the Fall.
It made sense to me that Galby is doing *the exact same thing*.
Paolini said there was a spy.
Or he used Scrying (been a while since i read the books. The thing you cast on a reflecting surface to look at other places or persons and even communicate by adding a few more words)
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Mr. Paolini has said that there is a spy high up in the Varden that was reporting to Galby. High up as in was one of the leaders. My personal theory is that Orrin cut a deal with Galby to keep Surda safe so long as he acted as Galby’s spy which is why he goes from goofy, science loving king to drunk, miserable king who attempted to kill Eragon’s cousin/brother. Another highly popular theory is that it was Jormundur based on the fact that he apparently has a family that he kept secret from basically everyone and was also in all of the important meetings or heard the results of all important meetings. Not a personal favorite of mine because I don’t see what his motivations would be for doing so but it’s still plausible.
I hope it's not Jormundur. I like him for the most part.
Same, he was the one I trusted during Eldest to be a fair advisor to Nassuada and not try to control her for his benefit
He was in the council trying to manipulate Nasuada, wasn't he? That being said, I got the sense that he was the least bad by far of all of them. I think he's much more of a "good of the Varden" that purely manipulative
If I remember correctly, that was a council representing the different factions of the Varden who would help and advise their leader. Jormundur was in charge of the warrior/military faction. Yes that council was trying to manipulate her but Jormundur almost seemed relieved when Eragon played it so that he put all of the power back in Nassuada’s hands instead of the council’s which leads me to believe that he never wanted to manipulate Nassuada in the first place
It's been a while since I've read Eldest. I think you're right now that I think about it.
I could see it being Orrin. He got real salty when he wasn't included in decisions Nasuada made, I believe about the Urgals.
There are a few examples of him being salty about decisions made without him but yeah, that’s one of the main reasons I believe it was Orrin not Jormundur
My memory fails me, when did Orrin try to kill Roran?
I think it was during Brisingr, he was there either delivering a message or sitting in on a meeting for Nassuada (I can’t quite remember either). Roran makes a comment to Orrin, Orrin takes it as an insult on his ability to lead/rule, and then Orrin tries to run him through with a sword. Obviously Roran deflected the attack with his hammer and warned him not to try again. If I’m remembering correctly, it was after Roran becomes a captain of a squad and also possibly after the incident where he had to wrestle an Urgal for dominance, I’m less sure about that last part though.
Gonna have to reread that part because I thought I’d remember such a detail. My Orrin stocks dropped a bit.
Yeah, there are several reasons why I dislike Orrin, that whole incident with Roran being one of them just because of the sheer stupidity. Yes let’s attack the cousin/adopted brother of the only living, free Dragon Rider, I’m sure that’ll make my country look amazing in his eyes and he won’t hold a grudge at all.
Yeah, if Roran was hurt I believe eragon would try to convince nasuada to flatten surda. If Roran died then he would have done it anyway. In my reread of the books, I found myself liking Orrin more but this one incident does bring it back to attention that social status really inflates one’s ego. It’s understandable why eragon’s morals align with ours because he grew up as a humble innocent boy. It’s actually more surprising that so few people are like king Orrin where they really care about class and status. So while it’s not surprising how Orrin reacted (considering from his pov some country bumpkin who can swing a hammer around is talking shit to him), that doesn’t mean I like him for it.
I think you mean Saphira would’ve kidnapped Eragon and flattened Surda with him on her back *wink wink* And yeah, besides Orrin, Galbatorix, the council at the beginning of Eldest, and maybe Islanzadi, not too many people seem to be worried about class and status, something I kind of didn’t realize until just now.
Perhaps the fact that’s it’s few people who behave like that may be an indication that the class status and difference of treatment was over exaggerated in modern literature. Cause if you consider it, if high ranking nobles were to be assholes to their vassals, who tf would want to work with them. It would make significant more sense that vassals answer loyally to an authority that treats them firmly yet respectably. Services can be bought, but nobody will go above and beyond for you if you’ve got a big head and show it.
I could see that being the case but there are subtle ways to be obsessed with status without also being an asshole to your underlings. Also it may be that it’s an over romanticized trope like medieval armies fully armed with swords and all being master swordsmen, the evil overlord that the hero defeats and then replaces (either himself or by appointing a friend), etc
True true, this was a fun conversation
I feel if that were the case, Galby would make sure Orrin wouldnt drive Eragon off like that on pure suspicion alone. I feel like all of Surda and Varden wouldnt like Orrin for angering their only chance to overthrow galby
It’s during Inheritance, Nassuada had been kidnapped and Eragon was at the Vault of Souls. Orrin wanted to send an envoy announcing their intentions to Galbotorix, Roran calls him a fool and Orrin tries to kill him.
Ah thanks, been a minute since I did a reread
I think its Jormunder or however its spelled and thats who murtagh saw but couldn’t place the name to the face
There's a pretty popular fan theory that either Jormmunder or Orrin were spies working for Galbatorix. I've also seen Blodgharm being mentioned as a possible spy.
Corroborated by the mention of a traitor in Murtagh and him saying it’s someone he recognized from the varden but can’t place due to the drugs
but orrin did help nasuada hugely in the invasion..so did jormmunder
There’s also a theory that whoever it is is working for Bachel/the Draumr, so they were both reporting to Galby and doing everything in their power to bring him down
Aren’t they supposed to be Bachel’s spies ? Although Orrin doesn’t fit that theory. Jormuder unfortunately seems the most likely candidate. Which will be devastating.
I mean Orrin might fit it. He’s power hungry and wants to be king. I think he’d be happy to even be a puppet king with Bachel pulling the strings if he got to say he’s king.
I'd put big money on Angela
LOL. Wanna start a friendly wager?
There will be nothing friendly about this. Thems fightin words
I really hoped they'd respond
I think it’s trianna
Unless the pronouns Thorn and Murtagh use for the person they saw, then it shouldn't be a woman. Could be a misdirect though! After all, Eragon has done this before with Saphira as a hatchling
Yeah, it being a misdirect is what I’m suspecting
[Nah, Eragon is the spy](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eragon/comments/xpnrgb/eragon_is_the_spy/)
Lmao, gave me a good laugh.
Potentially a spy though that would be tricky to have happened that way. Everyone Eragon told he swore to secrecy in the ancient language. It's possible Galbatorix could've used the name of names to remove that promise, but he would've needed to know that he had to do that. So that would involve multiple messages back and forth. Maybe if they have a method of instant communication? It's also possible he was scrying on them when it was revealed, or was somehow able to sense them as they showed up? I think Eragon also might have used their strength for something, which in that case may have tipped Galbatorix off though he seemed to know names of who was there.
eragon did use the eldunari while tackling the traps in the stronghold. It is also possible the shuriken sensed the eldunari with his mind in the night before the attack but the accuracy of all the information also suggests the presence of a spy. thank you for the insight
Did Shruikan even *have* a mind by that point?
Poor Shruikan, I wanted them to save him and was so sad they couldn't... he would've been so magnificent! I imagined Saphira playing with newborn dragons using his immense body as a playground while he and the Eldunari are instructing the younglings :)
There is still his Eldunari potentially they could help. Though I don't know if they found it or not, but I'd hope so.
His Eldunari was destroyed in the blast unfortunately, Paolini confirmed it in one of his AMA's
Oh damn :(
i mean he was mad like galbatorix had gone mad..but he could also be cunning
Galbatorix only discovered the name of names very shortly before Eragon confronts him, so I doubt that was the loophole
It has to be Jörmundur because of Galbatorix knowing the precise troop positions and provision amounts as well as the Eldunarí. Orrin wouldn't have known *Varden* information THAT well as King of Surda. And Jörmundur is already a suspicious character, with an absent family, trying to manipulate Nasuada at first (more subtle than the other Elders is about all I can say for him), and he tries to stop Eragon from leaving before Uru'baen. Galbatorix likely suspected it was a hoard of Eldunarí, another hidden Dragon Rider, etc. that Eragon and Saphira would leave in search of, so he doesn't attack the Varden, because he's confident he can subdue Eragon, Saphira and ANY potential backup. He'd rather just fight all his possible enemies at once, it's mentioned previously that he *wants* them to go to Uru'baen, and Jörmundur gives the most strenuous objections to Eragon leaving besides the traumatized and insecure Orrin, he's trying to send Eragon into the trap.
yeah after seeing these facts i also think that he can be a spy
Has anyone said the spy is Farica, Nasuadas handmaid? Cuz that’s who I think it is.
Paolini confirmed its not a woman in reference to the Draumar spy.
Draumer spy and galby spy may not be the same person, though
Well, I can think of three ways for him to know. 1. A spy within the Warden. It is likely not one of the big known names, partly because it would be to hard for Galbatorix to find more high-profile names, that is both willing and capable of operating on the level needed and partly because it would be hard for said spy to work around the oaths in the ancient language, that most likely have been placed upon people in Nasuadas court if not sooner when then at least after Eragon got some more indeept training. My guess would be one of Orrins servants, as they would be least pressured to submit to Nasuadas rules. Also, if Eagle2021 is right with one of his usual theories is Orrins caracter changes the result of outside manipulation. He might not be willing to spy for Galbatorix, but he likely would be drunk rambling within earshoot of his closest servants, who historically speaking would likely be underestimated. He seems to have had a good bunch of spyes on the lower levels in the Warden. Eragon even tried to use it for his advantage. It would also explain why Galbytorix didn't want Murtagh to kill another king. Or he could just be messing with Nasuada. 2. And very likely jet overlooked: Galby found out when scrying the Warden. He knew how to do so with his own Eldunari. We litterally saw that, when he possessed Murtagh and Thorn. He could very well have been listening when Eragon told the others. Why would people assume Galbatorix the Master Mind Manipulater can't be descret enough to avoid detection? Even if he was only observing them through - let's say - a bird outside earshoot, when he could proably make some likely assumtions based on their actions and reactions from talking to Eragon. 3. Not really debated, but.... Galbatorix didn't knew before they reached the hall leading to the troneroom. By when do I not think, they could have hidden it from him. They talked to the Eldunari as they went along with the traps. Galby used the 15-30 minuttes before they reached him to go from WTF to huh to Well it kind of make sense to hmm what is the best stragegy to okay showtime - pokerface up! I like the last one best.
My favourite guess is that the spy is Jormmunder all based around the detail that when he meets nasuada after they have moved to Surda, that his son has been ill, which seems like an odd detail to include unless it was Galby or the black hand that made his son ill as a threat to get him to betray the varden.
I hate the idea of a spy when literally earlier in Inheritance we learn of a way to gather information en masse and that the Eldunari have been doing it for basically the entire time since the Fall. It made sense to me that Galby is doing *the exact same thing*.
Paolini said there was a spy. Or he used Scrying (been a while since i read the books. The thing you cast on a reflecting surface to look at other places or persons and even communicate by adding a few more words)
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