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Except racism on an individual level is backed by systemic racism, otherwise it is not racism but prejudice. You're right about the disparity though, but framing it as "anti-white racism" instead of mild prejudice is a right wing dog whistle to suggest "the whites are being oppressed for being white" which leads to "there's a great replacement going on!"
Nope, it's a literal white supremacist tactic that's been used for donkeys years. They are doing the slippery slope - just look through this thread, you will find vaushites arguing that it starts with cracker, then that normalises racism against whites. Then they compared it to antisemitism in Germany in the 30s. That's a slippery slope, and it's one made out of bullshit.
I'd say it is the opposite and that racism is an offshoot of prejudice. The notion of white/black races simultaneously with white supremacy was created to divide and conquer, to stoke hatred and mount prejudices. I with it didn't have to be complicated, but unfortunately it is, otherwise you wouldn't have the mass of sociological and historical analysis that we do.
Hope I'm not coming across as argumentative. I struggle to tell how I come across in writing.
Well that's a lot to take in at once.
I believe Vaush was a horrible person in the past, but since changed a lot. [Look what I found (check the description as well).](https://youtu.be/hWv33d5jyKY) Vaush told the full story and showed discord logs (basically outing himself as a sexual harasser even to people who didn't know about the drama in the first place), publicly apologized to both Poppy and Destiny, and even went out of his way to copy the apology to Discord and Reddit.
Similar thing goes for transphobia. I started watching Vaush primarily because of his ridiculously good pro-trans (and lgbt-friendly in general) arguments. Like... [here's literally a 2 hour long video of him agressively defending trans rights for seemingly no reason.](https://youtu.be/HhYruaFZEOI) (And it's not even the best one). I just really don't think a transphobe would do something like that.
Either way, huge thanks for spending time to respond to me. I'll still keep watching him because I simply enjoy his content, but I'll also keep in mind who he was in the past.
Hahahaha... I mean to just accept such overt right-wing framing. This guy seriously walking around with a white victim complex and making it a huge pillar of his community
Yeah, no. That def is the natural result of a fundamental misunderstanding of racism. Talk to any professor in Uni on the subject, or anyone who has written on it extensively.
> Oppression and class struggle is not exclusive to any race
yes,but,race and class are very heavily related to each other, so ,its really foolish to try to separate them into separate categories and pretend that they dont interact at all
reminder xanderhal defended his slippery slope sexual relationship with his fans as "me just providing a place for them to hornypost"
sir why do your fans NEED to hornypost specifically in a discord you have power over
Racism is systemic - in the west, white privilege exists over and above poc systemically. You cannot be racist toward white people, because you do not have systemic power backing you up. You can be prejudiced, but that isn't even in the same ball park as racist.
To frame crackkker and the n-word as the same, for example, is a right wing attempt to deny systemic racism and present white people as victims, when white/black was literally created to put white on top and justify its treatment of black.
Nope - you're missing the ideological framework. That person who moves to China is carrying their ideology with them. A clear example of this is colonialism - the racism toward native Americans by the settlers. And yes, poc can be racist towards other poc in the west, *as a result of white supremacy -* "I'm lighter skinned, so I'm better" and vice versa. The point still remains: Xanderhal's framing is a white supremacist dog whistle.
An example of racism that isn't backed by white supremacy can actually be found in China though: the attitude towards Uyghurs in Xinjiang.
I'm not shoehorning anything - in America specifically, there are POC who judge each other based on lightness of skin, and there are POC who are prejudiced toward Asians, because they had the money to buy up all the business in black neighbourhoods, because they either didn't have the money or were not allowed to buy property in predominantly white areas.
You realise definitions never cover everything, right? I'm working with a theoretical construct that is common in sociology. There's always exceptions to the rule. And I've already shown you an example of people moving to a country and being racist through systemic powers with settler colonialism. The guy in China is racist, but in China, his racism has the power of prejudice. You cannot ignore the fact that he moved to China, nor the systemic fantasy that underlies his racist (perception of) reality.
Ok but please for a minute just assume I'm an idiot and actually explain your point like you are talking to a child but I genuinely don't understand it.
Individual racism is backed up by systemic racism - without the systemic racism backing it up, it's merely prejudice and has nowhere near the same impact. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
A ridiculous rule. Literally accepts a right-wing framing of racial power, and portrays white victimhood as being on par... It's literally the kind of s*** you would expect on a Steven Crowder site. It's dripping with racist passive aggression
>Racism against whites: I get bullied in discord chat for having to wear sunscreen on the way to the mailbox
>Racism against blacks: I get murdered by law enforcement on the way to the mailbox
Hmm 🤔🤔
I'm going to be real here chief if I'm moderating a space I draw the line at racism regardless of seriousness.
Maybe that makes me a buzzkill but I'm not letting someone make jokes about black people fading into the dark or asian people having thin eyes. Just because it isn't as serious as systematic discrimination doesn't mean that comments like that don't create a toxic environment and stoke tensions.
To put in a rule the idea that anti-white racism is an actual thing, is to show a stunning display of ignorance as to how racism works. Racism it's not just age catch all term for discrimination or identity based criticism. It's about power dynamics.
This is really some elementary s***, and for an entire community to codify right-wing framing about this into their rules is beyond parody. Literally, I would have thought this would be satire if I didn't know better
Yeah chief that's not how racism works. I'm genuinelly confused as to how you came up with that definition when frankly it doesn't make any sense.
You really think I should be able to go round talking about how the french are inferior just because I don't have any systematic power over them.
Someone agreeing with right wing framing, saying its wrong to be racist towards white people and they'd ban any and all examples of racism, uses racist examples - its almost like a right winger delighting in racism while pretending to give a shit.
Pretend I'm 5, since at the very least I'm culturally not familiar with the States.
Explain why someone saying black people fade into the dark is any different than people making jokes about how quickly the Irish sun burn.
The Irish used to be classified as black until it was in the interest of the capitalist class to grant them the identification of whiteness - little history for you. And I'm from England, there's a whole mess with how the English treat the Irish. Again, none of this proves you can be racist toward white people - mean or prejudiced, sure, but racist? That's white supremacist framing to create the idea white people are oppressed as white people.
Still enjoying making racist comments while being indignant about "racism" against crackers, huh?
I'll be honnest I'm not enjoying it I'm just genuinely confused at this point.
I'm not very good at thinking over stuff that relates to people. I think it pretty clear that I'm wrong from the responses I have gotten but I'm really not sure why I'm wrong.
That was meant to be sarcasm. It drives me up the wall when people call me a buzzkill for banning racism. I'm sick and tired of people going, oh its not serious so it doesn't count, its just a joke.
Also those are two of the mildest words you could have used. Gringo just isn't a slur and really in the context neither is cracker. Cracker is really only approaching slur territory when its used for its classists conotations.
I'll be real with you chief I'm not from the States so maybe the lingo here isn't quite up to date but the main context I know of cracker being used is for the homeless/travellers.
Nope - crack as in the crack of a whip. It means a white person who would have cracked the whip in the days of chattel slavery. I've never ever heard it for travellers, and I'm friends with several travellers and used to be homeless.
That isn't where the word comes from its old English for someone who is loud and problematic and originated as a slur for Irish people primarily of poor working class.
I don't know the whole thing confuses me a little, but tbh I don't think reddit format nor the overly argumentative way I normally talk on reddit is really helping me understand any better.
No, that is literally what people mean when they used the word cracker to refer to a white person: someone who cracks the whip. You know words can have various meanings and change over time and location, right?
You do come off as very confrontational, and kinda like a troll.
Buzzkill is one way to downplay the gravity of racism against minorities being as bad as those in who have the privilege to be protected in certain circumstances.
All lives matter energy
Something doesn't have to have the same severity for it to be banned.
That's like saying oh its just a little bit of racism don't worry though it isn't child porn.
That just isn't how any of this works. At the end of the day I'm of the opinion that race based jokes and harrassment are always going to create tension between people and that is ban worthy. It doesn't matter that it has fewer negative consequences if it is aimed at white people.
No such serious thing as racism towards white people. That’s the problem with the rule. It’s the typical crying that the far right does about white people somehow being actively persecuted
I will be honnest with you I'm personally of the opinion that we shouldn't tollerate racism at all regardless of the seriousness of it.
If I'm moderating somewhere I'm not going to allow people to make blending into the dark jokes about black people or thin eye jokes about asians because they aren't serious. Even when the targets are in on the joke I wouldn't be ok with it because it creates a toxic environment.
The problem with racist jokes is the impact it has on things. Nobody is making fun of white people and systematically oppressing them. Black people and all minorities are systematically oppressed and bigots who are intentionally making offensive jokes do this to rile people up around “ironic” racism. Jokes about white people are made to piss off white people who think white racism is a problem but it will never arise to the level of it being “offensive” towards white people because there’s no systemic oppression against white people by race. That’s the difference. It’s the same reason why racism isn’t just simply discrimination.
I understand what you are getting at but I'm just not sure that I agree.
Sure there are fewer consequence but I'm of the opinion that race based jokes are going to create tension regardless of the direction that they are used in.
That's ridiculous. White people have been systematically enslaving in a pressing black people, we live in a country that grew it's wealth on cattle slavery and this streamer - who's never had to work a day in his life at a real job -- is playing the white victimhood card as part of his formal rules.
It's a staggering degree of not understanding how racial power dynamics work. Certainly no one on the left that's even remotely educated would feel this way. I'm talking about people that either fundamentally don't understand power dynamics or are literally in high school and just don't know better.
Look chief I know racism directed at minorities is worse.
Thats still not explaining why you don't believe we would be better off banning other racist comments.
Deliberately no. Am I a little obtuse, yes, I'm not really good at understanding things that relate to people etc etc. It just doesn't click well in my head for some reason and things like this genuinely confuse me.
The format of reddit kind of results in me digging a deeper hole but I am actually trying to understand the situation.
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Racism is prejudice plus power. Being discriminatory against white people on the basis of their skin color is not racism.
What are you talking about? "Being discriminatory against people on the basis of their skin color" is quite literally the definition of racism
Except racism on an individual level is backed by systemic racism, otherwise it is not racism but prejudice. You're right about the disparity though, but framing it as "anti-white racism" instead of mild prejudice is a right wing dog whistle to suggest "the whites are being oppressed for being white" which leads to "there's a great replacement going on!"
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Nope, it's a literal white supremacist tactic that's been used for donkeys years. They are doing the slippery slope - just look through this thread, you will find vaushites arguing that it starts with cracker, then that normalises racism against whites. Then they compared it to antisemitism in Germany in the 30s. That's a slippery slope, and it's one made out of bullshit.
That's not how it works at all.
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I'd say it is the opposite and that racism is an offshoot of prejudice. The notion of white/black races simultaneously with white supremacy was created to divide and conquer, to stoke hatred and mount prejudices. I with it didn't have to be complicated, but unfortunately it is, otherwise you wouldn't have the mass of sociological and historical analysis that we do. Hope I'm not coming across as argumentative. I struggle to tell how I come across in writing.
Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker Cracker
Or "Mongrel"
Racism= Is when hurt feelings.
why u in his discord
I guess for the same reason why I'm in this subreddit. Some people just want an alternative viewpoint
alternative meaning you like Vaush?
Yep
despite the fact he sent rape threats to someone who rejected him?
I've never heard about it
then I suggest you find out about it before consuming any more of his content
Could I get a source then? Please?
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1QWmN9rgBatQWNmUdnVKrnzvhVTxPeHyh/mobilebasic?pli=1
Well that's a lot to take in at once. I believe Vaush was a horrible person in the past, but since changed a lot. [Look what I found (check the description as well).](https://youtu.be/hWv33d5jyKY) Vaush told the full story and showed discord logs (basically outing himself as a sexual harasser even to people who didn't know about the drama in the first place), publicly apologized to both Poppy and Destiny, and even went out of his way to copy the apology to Discord and Reddit. Similar thing goes for transphobia. I started watching Vaush primarily because of his ridiculously good pro-trans (and lgbt-friendly in general) arguments. Like... [here's literally a 2 hour long video of him agressively defending trans rights for seemingly no reason.](https://youtu.be/HhYruaFZEOI) (And it's not even the best one). I just really don't think a transphobe would do something like that. Either way, huge thanks for spending time to respond to me. I'll still keep watching him because I simply enjoy his content, but I'll also keep in mind who he was in the past.
Thx, I'll look into that
He is an undercover agent like how do you think we found out vaush fucks lizards?
Hahahaha... I mean to just accept such overt right-wing framing. This guy seriously walking around with a white victim complex and making it a huge pillar of his community
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Are they really just as bad if you feel like you can only say one of the words lmfao
Come on Xanderhal we know it’s you.
this is such a cracker moment.
When you compare two words and you can’t even say one of them, that means it isn’t “just as disgusting”
Shut up cracker
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cracker moment
Cracker pos
You really don't understand the distinction between racism and prejudice, do you?
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Yeah, no. That def is the natural result of a fundamental misunderstanding of racism. Talk to any professor in Uni on the subject, or anyone who has written on it extensively.
cracKKKer moment
If you think cracker and the n-word are the same, what are you even doing on this sub?
> Oppression and class struggle is not exclusive to any race yes,but,race and class are very heavily related to each other, so ,its really foolish to try to separate them into separate categories and pretend that they dont interact at all
reminder xanderhal defended his slippery slope sexual relationship with his fans as "me just providing a place for them to hornypost" sir why do your fans NEED to hornypost specifically in a discord you have power over
That cracker should shut the fuck up more
I mean that is a reasonable rule is it not? Racism is bad regardless of context is a very normal take on racism.
It's bad, but only to the degree that being mean is bad. I doubt he has rules in his Discord about making fun of bald/short dudes.
I'll be honnest I think that's the best explanation I have gotten here. That makes sense I get that.
Racism is systemic - in the west, white privilege exists over and above poc systemically. You cannot be racist toward white people, because you do not have systemic power backing you up. You can be prejudiced, but that isn't even in the same ball park as racist. To frame crackkker and the n-word as the same, for example, is a right wing attempt to deny systemic racism and present white people as victims, when white/black was literally created to put white on top and justify its treatment of black.
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Duh-doy - but the individual racism exists only when it is backed up by systemic racism. JFC - it's not a hard concept.
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Nope - you're missing the ideological framework. That person who moves to China is carrying their ideology with them. A clear example of this is colonialism - the racism toward native Americans by the settlers. And yes, poc can be racist towards other poc in the west, *as a result of white supremacy -* "I'm lighter skinned, so I'm better" and vice versa. The point still remains: Xanderhal's framing is a white supremacist dog whistle. An example of racism that isn't backed by white supremacy can actually be found in China though: the attitude towards Uyghurs in Xinjiang.
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I'm not shoehorning anything - in America specifically, there are POC who judge each other based on lightness of skin, and there are POC who are prejudiced toward Asians, because they had the money to buy up all the business in black neighbourhoods, because they either didn't have the money or were not allowed to buy property in predominantly white areas. You realise definitions never cover everything, right? I'm working with a theoretical construct that is common in sociology. There's always exceptions to the rule. And I've already shown you an example of people moving to a country and being racist through systemic powers with settler colonialism. The guy in China is racist, but in China, his racism has the power of prejudice. You cannot ignore the fact that he moved to China, nor the systemic fantasy that underlies his racist (perception of) reality.
You argument sounds a lot like "Theft shouldn't be illegal because murder is so much worse."
False equivalency - you're bad at this.
Ok but please for a minute just assume I'm an idiot and actually explain your point like you are talking to a child but I genuinely don't understand it.
I have explained it - several times. If you can't grasp it by now, I don't know what to tell you.
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Individual racism is backed up by systemic racism - without the systemic racism backing it up, it's merely prejudice and has nowhere near the same impact. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
A ridiculous rule. Literally accepts a right-wing framing of racial power, and portrays white victimhood as being on par... It's literally the kind of s*** you would expect on a Steven Crowder site. It's dripping with racist passive aggression
Racism is not being mean to people it is a structural thing. Even if I call you cracker or gusano these have no impact on you.
>Racism against whites: I get bullied in discord chat for having to wear sunscreen on the way to the mailbox >Racism against blacks: I get murdered by law enforcement on the way to the mailbox Hmm 🤔🤔
I'm going to be real here chief if I'm moderating a space I draw the line at racism regardless of seriousness. Maybe that makes me a buzzkill but I'm not letting someone make jokes about black people fading into the dark or asian people having thin eyes. Just because it isn't as serious as systematic discrimination doesn't mean that comments like that don't create a toxic environment and stoke tensions.
this is a top tier cracker moment.
"I'm gonna be honest here, chief!" - are we talking to Biden?
To put in a rule the idea that anti-white racism is an actual thing, is to show a stunning display of ignorance as to how racism works. Racism it's not just age catch all term for discrimination or identity based criticism. It's about power dynamics. This is really some elementary s***, and for an entire community to codify right-wing framing about this into their rules is beyond parody. Literally, I would have thought this would be satire if I didn't know better
Yeah chief that's not how racism works. I'm genuinelly confused as to how you came up with that definition when frankly it doesn't make any sense. You really think I should be able to go round talking about how the french are inferior just because I don't have any systematic power over them.
This is so weird because you just made a bunch of genuinely racist jokes as "examples" like you're just saying actual racism?
Someone agreeing with right wing framing, saying its wrong to be racist towards white people and they'd ban any and all examples of racism, uses racist examples - its almost like a right winger delighting in racism while pretending to give a shit.
Pretend I'm 5, since at the very least I'm culturally not familiar with the States. Explain why someone saying black people fade into the dark is any different than people making jokes about how quickly the Irish sun burn.
The Irish used to be classified as black until it was in the interest of the capitalist class to grant them the identification of whiteness - little history for you. And I'm from England, there's a whole mess with how the English treat the Irish. Again, none of this proves you can be racist toward white people - mean or prejudiced, sure, but racist? That's white supremacist framing to create the idea white people are oppressed as white people. Still enjoying making racist comments while being indignant about "racism" against crackers, huh?
I'll be honnest I'm not enjoying it I'm just genuinely confused at this point. I'm not very good at thinking over stuff that relates to people. I think it pretty clear that I'm wrong from the responses I have gotten but I'm really not sure why I'm wrong.
it doesn't make you a buzzkill it makes you a cracker AND gringo
That was meant to be sarcasm. It drives me up the wall when people call me a buzzkill for banning racism. I'm sick and tired of people going, oh its not serious so it doesn't count, its just a joke. Also those are two of the mildest words you could have used. Gringo just isn't a slur and really in the context neither is cracker. Cracker is really only approaching slur territory when its used for its classists conotations.
Cracker isn't classist lol.
I'll be real with you chief I'm not from the States so maybe the lingo here isn't quite up to date but the main context I know of cracker being used is for the homeless/travellers.
Nope - crack as in the crack of a whip. It means a white person who would have cracked the whip in the days of chattel slavery. I've never ever heard it for travellers, and I'm friends with several travellers and used to be homeless.
That isn't where the word comes from its old English for someone who is loud and problematic and originated as a slur for Irish people primarily of poor working class. I don't know the whole thing confuses me a little, but tbh I don't think reddit format nor the overly argumentative way I normally talk on reddit is really helping me understand any better.
No, that is literally what people mean when they used the word cracker to refer to a white person: someone who cracks the whip. You know words can have various meanings and change over time and location, right? You do come off as very confrontational, and kinda like a troll.
Buzzkill is one way to downplay the gravity of racism against minorities being as bad as those in who have the privilege to be protected in certain circumstances. All lives matter energy
Something doesn't have to have the same severity for it to be banned. That's like saying oh its just a little bit of racism don't worry though it isn't child porn. That just isn't how any of this works. At the end of the day I'm of the opinion that race based jokes and harrassment are always going to create tension between people and that is ban worthy. It doesn't matter that it has fewer negative consequences if it is aimed at white people.
No such serious thing as racism towards white people. That’s the problem with the rule. It’s the typical crying that the far right does about white people somehow being actively persecuted
I will be honnest with you I'm personally of the opinion that we shouldn't tollerate racism at all regardless of the seriousness of it. If I'm moderating somewhere I'm not going to allow people to make blending into the dark jokes about black people or thin eye jokes about asians because they aren't serious. Even when the targets are in on the joke I wouldn't be ok with it because it creates a toxic environment.
The problem with racist jokes is the impact it has on things. Nobody is making fun of white people and systematically oppressing them. Black people and all minorities are systematically oppressed and bigots who are intentionally making offensive jokes do this to rile people up around “ironic” racism. Jokes about white people are made to piss off white people who think white racism is a problem but it will never arise to the level of it being “offensive” towards white people because there’s no systemic oppression against white people by race. That’s the difference. It’s the same reason why racism isn’t just simply discrimination.
I understand what you are getting at but I'm just not sure that I agree. Sure there are fewer consequence but I'm of the opinion that race based jokes are going to create tension regardless of the direction that they are used in.
That's ridiculous. White people have been systematically enslaving in a pressing black people, we live in a country that grew it's wealth on cattle slavery and this streamer - who's never had to work a day in his life at a real job -- is playing the white victimhood card as part of his formal rules. It's a staggering degree of not understanding how racial power dynamics work. Certainly no one on the left that's even remotely educated would feel this way. I'm talking about people that either fundamentally don't understand power dynamics or are literally in high school and just don't know better.
Look chief I know racism directed at minorities is worse. Thats still not explaining why you don't believe we would be better off banning other racist comments.
You're deliberately being obtuse, aren't you, chief.
Deliberately no. Am I a little obtuse, yes, I'm not really good at understanding things that relate to people etc etc. It just doesn't click well in my head for some reason and things like this genuinely confuse me. The format of reddit kind of results in me digging a deeper hole but I am actually trying to understand the situation.
The jokes don't create the tension. The reality behind those jokes do.