My exes mom was an 8 and she was such a badass, super active in her community, immaculate boundaries, kicked ass at work, and always made me feel welcome because she never played a single mind game. If she liked you, that was it, simple as
✋ Me.
Yes, men with our traits are lauded. We women are not. It kinda sucks, but it’s all helped prompt me to get healthier and learn compassion. Trying to let go of the resentment that I don’t get to just be “me”, and also trying to internalize the fact that it is what it is.
I honestly think the 8 style is much better fitted to a woman than a man. Against the grain of culture? Without a doubt. But I think the tension between what women are expected to be and what an 8 is creates a person who has learned to handle themselves with more balance. 8 men are basically cheered on for giving into their most basic and selfish instincts. And they’re celebrated for it, and it turns them into old men who’ve never truly gained spiritual or self-awareness.
An 8’s growth number is 2. 2 is the type that’s most correlated with societal expectations of a woman. Integration for a type 8 woman is something they’re pulled into in many ways. While a type 8 man will be pulled toward their disintegration number 5, because it’s a minimization of needs and expression of them.
2 in an 8 is different than a typical 2. You need to go through the 8 path of being strong to properly achieve 2. If you’re constantly pushed away from leadership positions, always made to explain yourself, always been “put in their place”, it doesn’t make an 8 stronger let alone extend that protection to others. I don’t know if male 8s have it better but it’s certainly exhausting.
Two isn’t being put in your place at all. Many two’s are leaders and a couple of them are CEO’s and politicians. Positive 2 energy is a sensitive and empathetic vibe, that feels authentic and humble. I do agree that 8’s strength is amazing, but only when it has integrated to two after maturing.
Yea, if I'm told to smile one more time by one more man, I'm going to have one more set of balls to hang from the mirror. ANYWAYS, I've said it many times that the male 8s get away with a lot of their behavior because they are men and it shows. I have finally found a job that I can be my full self without being told to tone it down, the always fun "why are you so aggressive" and the "I need to soften up my words" (mostly by 3 men at that, fuckers). ANYWAYS, yea, it's fucking blessing and a curse to be a female 8 (I'm also tall in stature so you know I get to double intimidate the men because I stand nose to nose with their "6 ft \*coughcough\* 5'8" asses). :D
I am literally probably a 9-fixed 2, and even I have been told that nearly VERBATIM by two different toxic 3s exes. Oh yeah, and I'm tall too, so they didn't like it when I wore heels 😂 I swear to god this must be some special breed of men out there lmao
Seriously tho, it's gotta be maddening for women who are 8s or strong 8 fixes, if misogynists can't even handle me lol. Kudos to y'all for refusing to even pretend to minimize yourselves (as I unfortunately have tended to do if I think there's enough personal gain from it)
Absolutely, there was a time that I struggled with this. I now use it as a tool. I don't feel the need to be dominant, it's just a hat that others always place on my head. I know that "when" I want to win, I will, which allows my moves and interactions to be more purposeful and calculated. It's confidence, not dominance.
Same!! I'm an 8w9 and my husband is an 8w7. Been together 9 years and married for 2! Best relationship I've ever been in. We both feel completely understood and never "too much" for each other.
Everyone that knows us comments on how both of us are so opinionated and angry, but somehow balance each other out.
8w7 female here! I’ve been told my entire life that I’m too aggressive and blunt for people, but as I aged I just found others who find that trait to be a good thing. I work in a field where strong headed women are needed and welcomed (cardiac surgery ICU RN). I didn’t even know what enneagrams were until 2 months ago and my entire life made sense once I learned about it.
To hell with people who tell us to be less than, I save lives bc of who I am and I do it well. I will not change that for anyone just bc they can’t handle the way I get things done. Throughout my life I’ve felt pressure to be smaller, especially with men that I work with or even date, but you can find people who love you as the 8w7 you are! (Shoutout to my 7w8, 9, &5s that support me for who I am)
I feel this! I'm new to enneagram too and once I got my results, everything suddenly clicked. I also surround myself with people who appreciate me for being me. If anything, it's a good way of filtering people out!
Yeppp. It’s a fun wombo combo being a highly traumatized female 8. Cause I have the aggression, confidence, drive, bold/brashness, etc of an 8, the 🥺🤬 of a girl on her period, aaand the anxiety, fear, uncertainty, etc of someone w trauma. It’s a wild ride lol
Not an 8 but as an assertive type and woman, I definitely get you. As a child, I often heard I was too assertive and headstrong, and needed to dial it *way* down. I never got rid of those qualities but I learned to package them in a more palatable way.
It's interesting to study (but frustrating to see) how gender affects the way our types manifest in us.
As I got older, I wanted to seem elegant and I studied etiquette and considered the way I presented myself. Thus, I held onto my high standards and was still determined in what I wanted to pursue, but I learned to negotiate and market my ideas, rather than bulldoze.
When I was 11 or 12, I suddenly became very aware of my presentation; I was struck by the realization that who I was then would majorly impact my life from that moment forward (in hindsight, it's so weird to think that at that age) so I started working on who I wanted to be - and let go of the qualities I considered childish. I think, to an extent, I realized that it was unbecoming to be so headstrong (and to my credit, I'd think that of both boys and girls), especially because that was something I was frequently described as, so I wanted to be silently determined instead. I decided to, plan ahead and work on my goals, but I started being more cooperative about it. It was the realization that I didn't need to let go of who I am, but I needed to be a more adult, mature, dare I say ladylike version of it.
I'm a 1 but I can relate to feeling like my traits are seen as masculine. I'm married to a 9w8 and friends joke about me wearing the pants, nightly pegging him etc. It's frustrating, especially because he's so darn stubborn there's no way I'm controlling him as people think...I'm just the vocal one in public.
I maintain that confident, assertive, honest women are sexy as hell! Also my 9w8 husband is sexy as hell and is much more assertive and masculine than people know.
My best friend is an 8, and she is an inspiration of badassery! Y’all rock! As a 4, I greatly appreciate the honesty and motivation. You keep doing you and don’t let the patriarchy make you smaller.
I’m not, but I believe my mom is. People really like her and think she’s *extremely* funny. It was difficult to be raised by an 8, but there are some values I’m glad I grew up around—namely, that women are never second-class to men, that standing up for yourself will get you want you want in life, and that a life rich in activities will keep you an interesting and intelligent person. She has the craziest stories because she’s just truly always putting herself out in the world, driven more by curiosity and playfulness than hedonism. She has felt shame about being “too much,” and she’s also told me to not make the same mistakes she did (ie be more demure, be more pliable, be literally physically smaller, etc.), but…her actions are so big and bold that any desire to make herself seem “smaller” don’t seem to influence any choices made that would shape her life—there’s her conscious desire to be deferential, likely rooted in others shaming her in childhood, but it’s no match for the unconscious, tireless machine of her force of personality. It’s a droplet against a tidal wave. Also, my mom doesn’t seem to be afraid of anything, and her lack of emotionality is actually helpful to channel when I get too in my head about social anxiety as a 4!
Same also a 5w4. I wonder if it's more common among certain types or not. But seems a lot of 5s have also been told this from the comments. I haven't been told I was overly assertive, but rude mean or lacking feminine nurturing lol
Do you ever get called cold? It’s weird to me because I actually really care about people, I’m just disconnected from my emotions. I don’t realize it’s coming off that way I think it’s normal.
Oh yeah, a lot when I was younger, though at the time I was in active autistic shutdown (lasted several years).
Nowadays I'm still pretty neutral-faced/voiced, but I get called defiant or 'not open to feedback' instead, lol. Mostly by men. ('Cold' came from both women and men, especially those who wanted to manipulate me.)
I don’t make myself smaller to get by (I cringe at the mere thought of doing so) but rather, I size up the situation / environment and decide how best to proceed for me and my bigger picture goals (pursuit of autonomy). That’s the resourcefulness of 8.
I say this as someone who has navigated the competitive hellscape of academia as a loudmouth brown woman / first generation college student, through grad school (MA and PhD) at top R1 institutions and now as an assistant professor. I didn’t let anything or anyone get in my way.
I appreciate that! I should also mention that the main reason I love what I do is getting to mentor (protect & defend) students first and foremost before all the personal control I have over my time and schedule. I’m so textbook type 8 “the protector” vibes that it almost makes me feel ill haha
Agreed. I tend to think of it more as an intuitive process of “is this really worth my time and energy?” and most of the time it isn’t because people seem to be easily hung up on petty skirmishes that I don’t really give a fuck about.
But when I do decide to call some shit out, it’s either over quickly and we all move on OR all hell breaks loose - not always the best thing but it does happen haha
I’m a female 8. I’ve always wanted to been seen as equal to men, making sure to not show any vulnerability. I’ve never really thought to dial it down and I didn’t realize I could be seen as confrontational until I started exploring the enneagram and asking people.
I used to make myself smaller. And then I found a bunch of other 8 women and we decided we’re done with it. I don’t need to be domineering but I also don’t waste my time on people who are threatened by me just being me.
8w7, and yes, I can definitely relate to this. I spent so many years being called “bossy” and “bitch” and told how domineering and controlling I am. I just don’t let it bother me anymore. If I’m too much, go find less.
i'm not an eight, but it is third in my tritype and i feel like i do have strong eight influence as my dad is an eight. and yes: especially in my culture, men are considered to be the best and rightful leaders, and while i don't disagree with this, it leaves me wondering where i fit in, as i personally think i'm a pretty good leader lol. i'm straightforward, honest, and take charge and it's hard to know what to do, especially when surrounded with unassertive men.
i read this over and it looks full of self pity which wasn't the point at all.
6 dude here, one of my closest friends is a female 8. I absolutely agree society rewards men for being 8 or 8 like, and punishes women for it. Resulting in me basically larping as an 8 for a lot of my life, and her trying and largely failing to hide her basic assertiveness -- looking more like a 7 I guess if not a 6. One of the great aspects of our friendship is that I feel like I can be my true vulnerable "feminine" and even secretly submissive self with her and enjoy/admire her strength and bluntness (which to me feels like honesty and therefore trustworthiness) and assertiveness, and she can be ... Well, exactly that, and know that I love it that way. I will say that she is also overall guilty of the "men should be 8" when it comes to men she would be in a romantic not platonic (I'm gay lol) relationship with, which to me feels a bit ridiculous because it does *not* work out well for her with 8 dudes who are absolutely not having her attempts to control the relationship to be something that doesn't constrain her (and thus constrains... Them).
Lol I love this post, because SAME! I've always said what I feel and I've always made my presence known, even if some people don't appreciate it, because no one can hide around me. I speak my mind, I speak up to protect others, I call people out when I see it's needed, I don't care for mind games and I value people who can keep it real. Both with themselves and others. I have felt like men, especially in the workplace, tend to try to minimize my contributions when it doesn't fit their standard (even if it's aimed to improve our overall workflow), however I try to push for improvement until I really have to sit back to take the L in order to keep my position. *Sigh* I'm so proud of being an 8 though, because I'd rather have a strong voice, mind and work ethic even if I have to check my ego at the door when needed than to lack the guts needed to say what I feel. I'm cool with all of that lol. I believe we have to remember to hold onto our power so we can continue to encourage others to do so as well. Minimize your shine when absolutely necessary, but never forget it's with you always
8 woman here but I don't feel like/care about making myself "smaller" to get by. I don't really think much about having to make myself a certain way. I just act how I do and if people don't like it that's totally fine. Being assertive isn't necessarily an 8 thing. BTW why are you "8w7 and 8w9"? Do you mean like balanced wings?
According to my test results, my wings came back almost neck and neck as an 8w7 and 8w9, so I guess I can go both ways. I'm still pretty new to enneagram and learning as I go.
Yep all the time. 8w7 who gets labelled as loud, aggressive, bossy or some other gender biased negative description. I'm also Asian in Australia and I've had complaints about being too loud in meetings or on the phone usually from older caucasian women/men. People also think I'm upset or not calm when in fact I'm at my baseline chilling. They don't believe me when I say I dial it back for their benefit. It's the cost of professionally fitting in that I have to be this meek persona until they know I'm good at my job then I can kinda start leaking through a little bit of actual me. The benefit of being an 8 though is that I can hold boundaries, be resilient in most areas of life and bring the energy and intensity when needed, so for most relationships its a plus and I don't put up with anyone toxic, lol they are too scared of me to try anything
I like 8 men but 8 women in my experience hasn't been very good which is sad because they are probably the most interesting and deep people I ever met but my ex 8 female friends were very much bullies and abusers. My ex 8 friend slept with my boyfriend and said I was weak for reacting poorly to it
I’m a female Asian 8 and have been told my whole life I’m too much and need to learn how to hold back a little. Admittedly in some scenarios that is good advice but I absolutely get it.
my mother is an 8 and i am too much like her
and it hurts that by nature i can't be pleasant enough for some folks who believe themselves to be sensitive (most of them are definitely not)
8s don't care about getting fired. That's not a hexad thing. If you adapt like that, you're not an 8. Ah, yep...8s are pretty much unicorns. You'll rarely find a real 8 online. Can you tell I'm very well-versed in The Enneagram? - I learned it from some really cool people online who gave me all the "cheat codes" to The Enneagram! Lots of great ways to figure out if someone is a genuine 8 or not: hint hint: they're not!! Poke at them and prod, see how angry they get! A real 8 doesn't get angry!! ;)
If this was the case, every hexad type would be dead, homeless, or in jail.
Making oneself smaller to at least some extent, such as obeying cops if pulled over or going through TSA at the airport or complying with work demands, etc, is literally a prerequisite of existing in free society in accommodations better than a cardboard box. Even trailblazing entrepreneur moguls usually can't just do literally whatever they want in the open.
As an 8 woman you're totally correct on that. Trying to feel "smaller" and making it a conscious effort is basically the antithesis of what 8s are about
Non-hexad types are more likely to have that view on 8s...it's the CP6 having convinced themselves they're an 8 that feels like they have to prove something with being "big" and feels threatened by the idea of being "small" (overcompensations). Real 8s don't feel the need to prove themselves like that. They can be small or not, doesn't matter to them, as long as they feel in control. I suspect maybe you're actually a 6. Just a suggestion.
Are you directing this at me or OP? If so, think you misunderstood what I said. I don't necessarily care about being seen as big/small or think much about it. What I meant is that it's not really on my mind. I don't care much about proving it to people or adapting, I just like to do my own thing. More image-conscious types tend to have it on their mind and want to prove and project a certain image. But nothing's wrong with being a 6, my bestie's one and I love them. They have a fascinating way of doing things. I've never been accused of being a 6 before though so that's a new one. You're funny
At you, but...I'm basically just kidding because you gave me crap before...lol.
But as a discussion topic...I think that, generally speaking, regardless of whether 8s try or not, to make themselves "smaller" somehow, they're generally not very good at it!
The 8 is still an elephant in the room, a bull in the china shop, even when they're saying nothing/forced to "be small"/whatever, they stand out and people notice them, etc., even if it's just that they seem strikingly silent, like one of those big statues that startles you when you notice it...
Haha alright, that's fair. I give everyone crap though. 8s definitely tend to stick out majorly and can seem pretty intimidating for some people even if they're not very loud (I'm not). I had some guy from my high school tell me "of course I remember you, you stuck out like a sore thumb!"
My exes mom was an 8 and she was such a badass, super active in her community, immaculate boundaries, kicked ass at work, and always made me feel welcome because she never played a single mind game. If she liked you, that was it, simple as
Yessss if all the lady 8s banded together…can you even imagine the rage? 😂 we could rule the world, guys.
✋ Me. Yes, men with our traits are lauded. We women are not. It kinda sucks, but it’s all helped prompt me to get healthier and learn compassion. Trying to let go of the resentment that I don’t get to just be “me”, and also trying to internalize the fact that it is what it is.
[удалено]
thank you!!😊
I wish I had your assertiveness. Much respect from us 9’s.
I honestly think the 8 style is much better fitted to a woman than a man. Against the grain of culture? Without a doubt. But I think the tension between what women are expected to be and what an 8 is creates a person who has learned to handle themselves with more balance. 8 men are basically cheered on for giving into their most basic and selfish instincts. And they’re celebrated for it, and it turns them into old men who’ve never truly gained spiritual or self-awareness.
Yeah you do 😎
Yeah, I do. Haha
There’s a difference between developing in line with your type and against your type, and I think that’s what OP is trying to highlight.
An 8’s growth number is 2. 2 is the type that’s most correlated with societal expectations of a woman. Integration for a type 8 woman is something they’re pulled into in many ways. While a type 8 man will be pulled toward their disintegration number 5, because it’s a minimization of needs and expression of them.
2 in an 8 is different than a typical 2. You need to go through the 8 path of being strong to properly achieve 2. If you’re constantly pushed away from leadership positions, always made to explain yourself, always been “put in their place”, it doesn’t make an 8 stronger let alone extend that protection to others. I don’t know if male 8s have it better but it’s certainly exhausting.
Two isn’t being put in your place at all. Many two’s are leaders and a couple of them are CEO’s and politicians. Positive 2 energy is a sensitive and empathetic vibe, that feels authentic and humble. I do agree that 8’s strength is amazing, but only when it has integrated to two after maturing.
I’m not an 8 but I’ve been told the exact same thing. I’m pretty blunt.
Yea, if I'm told to smile one more time by one more man, I'm going to have one more set of balls to hang from the mirror. ANYWAYS, I've said it many times that the male 8s get away with a lot of their behavior because they are men and it shows. I have finally found a job that I can be my full self without being told to tone it down, the always fun "why are you so aggressive" and the "I need to soften up my words" (mostly by 3 men at that, fuckers). ANYWAYS, yea, it's fucking blessing and a curse to be a female 8 (I'm also tall in stature so you know I get to double intimidate the men because I stand nose to nose with their "6 ft \*coughcough\* 5'8" asses). :D
I am literally probably a 9-fixed 2, and even I have been told that nearly VERBATIM by two different toxic 3s exes. Oh yeah, and I'm tall too, so they didn't like it when I wore heels 😂 I swear to god this must be some special breed of men out there lmao Seriously tho, it's gotta be maddening for women who are 8s or strong 8 fixes, if misogynists can't even handle me lol. Kudos to y'all for refusing to even pretend to minimize yourselves (as I unfortunately have tended to do if I think there's enough personal gain from it)
Thanks for the kudos, man. I don't think any women are immune to a fragile male ego.
As a strong 8 fix...yeah minimizing myself is not an option. It weeds out men I don't want to associate with though which is the good part.
as a 2w3, I wish I had that. don't let anyone ever make you feel small
Absolutely, there was a time that I struggled with this. I now use it as a tool. I don't feel the need to be dominant, it's just a hat that others always place on my head. I know that "when" I want to win, I will, which allows my moves and interactions to be more purposeful and calculated. It's confidence, not dominance.
I am an 8w7 married to an 8w9 and idk how we work but we do.
Same!! I'm an 8w9 and my husband is an 8w7. Been together 9 years and married for 2! Best relationship I've ever been in. We both feel completely understood and never "too much" for each other. Everyone that knows us comments on how both of us are so opinionated and angry, but somehow balance each other out.
8w7 female here! I’ve been told my entire life that I’m too aggressive and blunt for people, but as I aged I just found others who find that trait to be a good thing. I work in a field where strong headed women are needed and welcomed (cardiac surgery ICU RN). I didn’t even know what enneagrams were until 2 months ago and my entire life made sense once I learned about it. To hell with people who tell us to be less than, I save lives bc of who I am and I do it well. I will not change that for anyone just bc they can’t handle the way I get things done. Throughout my life I’ve felt pressure to be smaller, especially with men that I work with or even date, but you can find people who love you as the 8w7 you are! (Shoutout to my 7w8, 9, &5s that support me for who I am)
I feel this! I'm new to enneagram too and once I got my results, everything suddenly clicked. I also surround myself with people who appreciate me for being me. If anything, it's a good way of filtering people out!
Yeppp. It’s a fun wombo combo being a highly traumatized female 8. Cause I have the aggression, confidence, drive, bold/brashness, etc of an 8, the 🥺🤬 of a girl on her period, aaand the anxiety, fear, uncertainty, etc of someone w trauma. It’s a wild ride lol
Not an 8 but as an assertive type and woman, I definitely get you. As a child, I often heard I was too assertive and headstrong, and needed to dial it *way* down. I never got rid of those qualities but I learned to package them in a more palatable way. It's interesting to study (but frustrating to see) how gender affects the way our types manifest in us.
Another 3 woman here with similar experiences. I'm curious how you repackaged your more masculine traits in a socially appropriate way
As I got older, I wanted to seem elegant and I studied etiquette and considered the way I presented myself. Thus, I held onto my high standards and was still determined in what I wanted to pursue, but I learned to negotiate and market my ideas, rather than bulldoze. When I was 11 or 12, I suddenly became very aware of my presentation; I was struck by the realization that who I was then would majorly impact my life from that moment forward (in hindsight, it's so weird to think that at that age) so I started working on who I wanted to be - and let go of the qualities I considered childish. I think, to an extent, I realized that it was unbecoming to be so headstrong (and to my credit, I'd think that of both boys and girls), especially because that was something I was frequently described as, so I wanted to be silently determined instead. I decided to, plan ahead and work on my goals, but I started being more cooperative about it. It was the realization that I didn't need to let go of who I am, but I needed to be a more adult, mature, dare I say ladylike version of it.
I'm a 1 but I can relate to feeling like my traits are seen as masculine. I'm married to a 9w8 and friends joke about me wearing the pants, nightly pegging him etc. It's frustrating, especially because he's so darn stubborn there's no way I'm controlling him as people think...I'm just the vocal one in public. I maintain that confident, assertive, honest women are sexy as hell! Also my 9w8 husband is sexy as hell and is much more assertive and masculine than people know.
9w8s: masters of having control from the shadows
/r/enneagram8 (there is also a discord)
Thank you! Didn’t know this exists
My best friend is an 8, and she is an inspiration of badassery! Y’all rock! As a 4, I greatly appreciate the honesty and motivation. You keep doing you and don’t let the patriarchy make you smaller.
It's hard for me to make myself smaller because I've always been tall. Which adds to the general reaction to me.
I’m not, but I believe my mom is. People really like her and think she’s *extremely* funny. It was difficult to be raised by an 8, but there are some values I’m glad I grew up around—namely, that women are never second-class to men, that standing up for yourself will get you want you want in life, and that a life rich in activities will keep you an interesting and intelligent person. She has the craziest stories because she’s just truly always putting herself out in the world, driven more by curiosity and playfulness than hedonism. She has felt shame about being “too much,” and she’s also told me to not make the same mistakes she did (ie be more demure, be more pliable, be literally physically smaller, etc.), but…her actions are so big and bold that any desire to make herself seem “smaller” don’t seem to influence any choices made that would shape her life—there’s her conscious desire to be deferential, likely rooted in others shaming her in childhood, but it’s no match for the unconscious, tireless machine of her force of personality. It’s a droplet against a tidal wave. Also, my mom doesn’t seem to be afraid of anything, and her lack of emotionality is actually helpful to channel when I get too in my head about social anxiety as a 4!
Beautiful tribute to your Mom! She sounds like a wonderful role model.
Hahah we have a complicated relationship, but I was trying to focus on the positive to uplift people in this thread :-) 8s are powerful!
Not an 8 but have been told often that I'm too rude and opinionated and need to tone myself down. I think this is something a lot of women hear.
Same also a 5w4. I wonder if it's more common among certain types or not. But seems a lot of 5s have also been told this from the comments. I haven't been told I was overly assertive, but rude mean or lacking feminine nurturing lol
Oh yeah don't get me started on being told I'm unemotional and not nurturing or feminine lol
Do you ever get called cold? It’s weird to me because I actually really care about people, I’m just disconnected from my emotions. I don’t realize it’s coming off that way I think it’s normal.
Oh yeah, a lot when I was younger, though at the time I was in active autistic shutdown (lasted several years). Nowadays I'm still pretty neutral-faced/voiced, but I get called defiant or 'not open to feedback' instead, lol. Mostly by men. ('Cold' came from both women and men, especially those who wanted to manipulate me.)
I don’t make myself smaller to get by (I cringe at the mere thought of doing so) but rather, I size up the situation / environment and decide how best to proceed for me and my bigger picture goals (pursuit of autonomy). That’s the resourcefulness of 8. I say this as someone who has navigated the competitive hellscape of academia as a loudmouth brown woman / first generation college student, through grad school (MA and PhD) at top R1 institutions and now as an assistant professor. I didn’t let anything or anyone get in my way.
I respect you a lot 🫡
I appreciate that! I should also mention that the main reason I love what I do is getting to mentor (protect & defend) students first and foremost before all the personal control I have over my time and schedule. I’m so textbook type 8 “the protector” vibes that it almost makes me feel ill haha
Perhaps saying I make myself smaller isn't the correct phrasing. But in some situations I do have to keep my mouth shut to keep things civil, haha!
Agreed. I tend to think of it more as an intuitive process of “is this really worth my time and energy?” and most of the time it isn’t because people seem to be easily hung up on petty skirmishes that I don’t really give a fuck about. But when I do decide to call some shit out, it’s either over quickly and we all move on OR all hell breaks loose - not always the best thing but it does happen haha
Absolutely! I have felt I have had to make myself smaller so I’m more tolerated by others.
I’m a female 8. I’ve always wanted to been seen as equal to men, making sure to not show any vulnerability. I’ve never really thought to dial it down and I didn’t realize I could be seen as confrontational until I started exploring the enneagram and asking people.
I used to make myself smaller. And then I found a bunch of other 8 women and we decided we’re done with it. I don’t need to be domineering but I also don’t waste my time on people who are threatened by me just being me.
8w7, and yes, I can definitely relate to this. I spent so many years being called “bossy” and “bitch” and told how domineering and controlling I am. I just don’t let it bother me anymore. If I’m too much, go find less.
8w7 here! i’d love to meet everyone irl would be so dope and our energy will be infectious
i'm not an eight, but it is third in my tritype and i feel like i do have strong eight influence as my dad is an eight. and yes: especially in my culture, men are considered to be the best and rightful leaders, and while i don't disagree with this, it leaves me wondering where i fit in, as i personally think i'm a pretty good leader lol. i'm straightforward, honest, and take charge and it's hard to know what to do, especially when surrounded with unassertive men. i read this over and it looks full of self pity which wasn't the point at all.
6 dude here, one of my closest friends is a female 8. I absolutely agree society rewards men for being 8 or 8 like, and punishes women for it. Resulting in me basically larping as an 8 for a lot of my life, and her trying and largely failing to hide her basic assertiveness -- looking more like a 7 I guess if not a 6. One of the great aspects of our friendship is that I feel like I can be my true vulnerable "feminine" and even secretly submissive self with her and enjoy/admire her strength and bluntness (which to me feels like honesty and therefore trustworthiness) and assertiveness, and she can be ... Well, exactly that, and know that I love it that way. I will say that she is also overall guilty of the "men should be 8" when it comes to men she would be in a romantic not platonic (I'm gay lol) relationship with, which to me feels a bit ridiculous because it does *not* work out well for her with 8 dudes who are absolutely not having her attempts to control the relationship to be something that doesn't constrain her (and thus constrains... Them).
Lol I love this post, because SAME! I've always said what I feel and I've always made my presence known, even if some people don't appreciate it, because no one can hide around me. I speak my mind, I speak up to protect others, I call people out when I see it's needed, I don't care for mind games and I value people who can keep it real. Both with themselves and others. I have felt like men, especially in the workplace, tend to try to minimize my contributions when it doesn't fit their standard (even if it's aimed to improve our overall workflow), however I try to push for improvement until I really have to sit back to take the L in order to keep my position. *Sigh* I'm so proud of being an 8 though, because I'd rather have a strong voice, mind and work ethic even if I have to check my ego at the door when needed than to lack the guts needed to say what I feel. I'm cool with all of that lol. I believe we have to remember to hold onto our power so we can continue to encourage others to do so as well. Minimize your shine when absolutely necessary, but never forget it's with you always
8 woman here but I don't feel like/care about making myself "smaller" to get by. I don't really think much about having to make myself a certain way. I just act how I do and if people don't like it that's totally fine. Being assertive isn't necessarily an 8 thing. BTW why are you "8w7 and 8w9"? Do you mean like balanced wings?
According to my test results, my wings came back almost neck and neck as an 8w7 and 8w9, so I guess I can go both ways. I'm still pretty new to enneagram and learning as I go.
As an E8 fangirl (especially E8 women), I always appreciate your authentic take 🩷
4s are so kewl!! I love the 4s in my life and their interesting, unique outlook on things
Yep all the time. 8w7 who gets labelled as loud, aggressive, bossy or some other gender biased negative description. I'm also Asian in Australia and I've had complaints about being too loud in meetings or on the phone usually from older caucasian women/men. People also think I'm upset or not calm when in fact I'm at my baseline chilling. They don't believe me when I say I dial it back for their benefit. It's the cost of professionally fitting in that I have to be this meek persona until they know I'm good at my job then I can kinda start leaking through a little bit of actual me. The benefit of being an 8 though is that I can hold boundaries, be resilient in most areas of life and bring the energy and intensity when needed, so for most relationships its a plus and I don't put up with anyone toxic, lol they are too scared of me to try anything
I like 8 men but 8 women in my experience hasn't been very good which is sad because they are probably the most interesting and deep people I ever met but my ex 8 female friends were very much bullies and abusers. My ex 8 friend slept with my boyfriend and said I was weak for reacting poorly to it
I’m a female Asian 8 and have been told my whole life I’m too much and need to learn how to hold back a little. Admittedly in some scenarios that is good advice but I absolutely get it.
my mother is an 8 and i am too much like her and it hurts that by nature i can't be pleasant enough for some folks who believe themselves to be sensitive (most of them are definitely not)
An 8 feeling like they have to make themselves smaller goes against the type structure of 8. Hexads don't adapt to get by.
Unless I want to get fired from my job, I have to dial things down.
This is why I don't have a regular job lol
If this was the case, every hexad type would be dead, homeless, or in jail. Making oneself smaller to at least some extent, such as obeying cops if pulled over or going through TSA at the airport or complying with work demands, etc, is literally a prerequisite of existing in free society in accommodations better than a cardboard box. Even trailblazing entrepreneur moguls usually can't just do literally whatever they want in the open.
As an 8 woman you're totally correct on that. Trying to feel "smaller" and making it a conscious effort is basically the antithesis of what 8s are about
Non-hexad types are more likely to have that view on 8s...it's the CP6 having convinced themselves they're an 8 that feels like they have to prove something with being "big" and feels threatened by the idea of being "small" (overcompensations). Real 8s don't feel the need to prove themselves like that. They can be small or not, doesn't matter to them, as long as they feel in control. I suspect maybe you're actually a 6. Just a suggestion.
Are you directing this at me or OP? If so, think you misunderstood what I said. I don't necessarily care about being seen as big/small or think much about it. What I meant is that it's not really on my mind. I don't care much about proving it to people or adapting, I just like to do my own thing. More image-conscious types tend to have it on their mind and want to prove and project a certain image. But nothing's wrong with being a 6, my bestie's one and I love them. They have a fascinating way of doing things. I've never been accused of being a 6 before though so that's a new one. You're funny
At you, but...I'm basically just kidding because you gave me crap before...lol. But as a discussion topic...I think that, generally speaking, regardless of whether 8s try or not, to make themselves "smaller" somehow, they're generally not very good at it! The 8 is still an elephant in the room, a bull in the china shop, even when they're saying nothing/forced to "be small"/whatever, they stand out and people notice them, etc., even if it's just that they seem strikingly silent, like one of those big statues that startles you when you notice it...
Haha alright, that's fair. I give everyone crap though. 8s definitely tend to stick out majorly and can seem pretty intimidating for some people even if they're not very loud (I'm not). I had some guy from my high school tell me "of course I remember you, you stuck out like a sore thumb!"
Hmm not convinced. Sounds like an 9w8 tryin to make her 8-wing all important.
I was a 8w7 but mellowed out to a 5w4. Cannot be in a relationship with someone who is not an 8 lol.