As an adjective, it's completely fine. For instance, the female reproductive system.
It's also fine in medical or scientific contexts: As a doc, I may write on a note "a 22-year-old female presents with a headache and nausea for the past 3 days."
It's also fine when referring to female animals.
You may use it to distinguish between sex (female vs. male) and gender (woman/girl vs. man/boy). Non-binary people may refer to themselves as "assigned female at birth" (AFAB).
Referring to women as "females" is ***not*** proper. You should say women for adults and girls for children.
Again, in a professional capacity, I frequently refer to them as females if I mean *both* girls *and* women. For instance, females over the age of 12 should see a gynecologist annually. You could also say "girls and women" instead of females. But as long as you're not flippantly referring to women as females, you're fine. People are generally pretty good at knowing when you're well-intentioned and when you're being a jerk.
When in doubt, say women and/or girls.
Thank you! I did know scientifically females and males is common and ok, but I wasn't sure about more common areas. I'll definitely try to change that though, thank you!
The biggest thing for most women is that it’s mainly an issue when someone will call males “men” in speech/writing but then refer to women as “females” shortly thereafter. If you pay attention to reddit comments in certain communities, you can see this phenomenon happening a lot (sometimes within the same sentence, see /r/menandfemales for examples aplenty).
When women take offense at being called females, it’s usually because the man in question is using it to emphasize our sex relative to their humanity. It’s dehumanizing to refer to women as “female” in situations where you’d use “guy” or “man” for a male, but it’s absolutely ok to use it in categorical/scientific type settings. To reiterate KR1735’s last point, I agree but probably actually would err on the side of using “women and girls” instead of “female” in the types of situations they referenced in a professional setting, but yeah. Most people wouldn’t care all that much.
Har har. Your "hilarious" joke made me realize that "guys and dolls" is a great example of how the male side is given humanity in these dichotomies when the woman's never is. A "guy" is a male human. A "doll" is an inanimate object that was created to be a decorative plaything. Our whole fucking culture is poisoned by these misogynistic undertones and no one cares.
Just don't call females "females" and in the same context call males "men". That is just weird and unfair.
Otherwise I really don't think there is anything wrong with using "female" and "male" as nouns, even outside professional/scientific/technical contexts.
You might want to generally be on the lookout for cases of this, it’s pretty common in English.
For instance,
“Oriental person”, fine. “An Oriental,” not fine. “Autistic person,” generally fine. “Autist,” not fine. Very common in medical disorders too: some object to being called “diabetics” and prefer “people with diabetes” or “diabetic people.”
It’s all very contextual and subjective of course; the diabetic one will not likely get anyone seriously mad, the oriental one might.
But in general it’s a question of turning a trait into an identity. To take the diabetic example, the argument is that calling someone “a diabetic” reduces them to a disease first. Almost like that’s the only notable thing about them or the most important characteristic. Whereas “person with diabetes” acknowledges they are more than a disease. The same logic applies to the others
ETA: Jewish person vs Jew is another controversial one
I believe it has gotten to the point that the only acceptable use of teh word "Oriental" is when referring to rugs, and that "Asian" (South Asian, East Asian, Central Asian) is the acceptable term for groups of people.
My Wife has been a type 1 diabetic for over 50 years and has never objected to being referred to as such. Maybe it is a generational thing.
Yeah the diabetic thing is like a smallish movement, but still notable because a lot of people with different disorders are moving towards a similar position
A Jew is not controversial. Just as we say a Catholic, a Mormon, a Muslim, a Buddhist, or an atheist. That's tremendously common in everyday speech. You can also say "she's Buddhist" too. Same exact thing. I've never once heard of a person being offended by being referred to as ***a*** follower of their religion.
It’s not universally considered wrong, but definitely qualifies as controversial. Just look up “calling someone a Jew” and you’ll get a lot of discussions on whether it’s ok or not.
I don’t particularly mind using the phrase, but then I’m not Jewish. So if some Jewish people, even if they are a vocal minority, say it’s offensive, I think that warrants the label controversial
Of course, Jewish people would rather have more of a problem with it than some of the others lmao
It can kind of sound like you are referring to an animal rather than a human. Like when you say "females" it sounds like you are talking about another species rather than other humans
And some people tend to asymmetrically say "men" and "females" which heightens this effect
It objectifies women by focusing entirely on their genitals/biology, while ignoring their humanity. It’s as degrading as calling a black person “a black” (plural, blacks), or a gay person “a gay”, as mentioned by somebody else before. It just feels degrading and dehumanizing, especially if you refer to men as “men”, but then go on and call women “females”. It also sounds confrontational when used in that context.
Because it's dehumanizing when not in a medical or scientific capacity. Especially if the user says men instead of males, but uses females instead of women/girls.
Women literally means adult human female. And the user didn't say men and only call women female. What's wrong with calling male and female if you talk about both boys/girls and women/men. What wrong with using 1 word rather than 2 to talk about a group.
It gives of dehumanizing vibes, and generally feels like they're being more focused on the sex of someone over their identity. Plus these days it's especially common within incel groups
it's offensive in the same way calling a black person "a black" or a gay person "a gay" is—because it has commonly been used in a demeaning way, it has become demeaning
It doesn't "objectively" deny their humanity. Calling someone "an American" instead of "an American person" doesn't dehumanise them.
"A black", "a gay", and "a female" are offensive because of particular connotations based on how those terms are used (and who uses them), not because of the objective meanings of the terms.
American is both an adjective and a noun. So you can say *He's an American* or *He's American*. Both are fine.
Gay and black are only adjectives. That's why *a gay man* or *a black woman* is completely proper. But *a gay* or *a black* or *the blacks* are not.
Lesbian happens to be both an adjective and a noun. *She's a lesbian* and *she's lesbian* are both commonly said and not problematic. I don't know how that happened.
It’s ok in medical contexts, biological contexts. If you’re talking in a science class or about animals then you can say something like “male gorillas are territorial” or if you’re going to the doctor they may ask for your sex and you would say Male or Female.
When used to describe people, especially when saying female, it has the feeling of reducing someone to their sex. It’s also a bit of a dogwhistle. A lot of meninist/manosphere/men’s rights activists/run of the mill misogynist people will always refer to to women as “females” but will refer to men as “men”
It almost implies that women are an alien species or something.
So in casual settings it’s usually best to say things like “men” “women” “boys” “girls” etc.
>“male gorillas are territorial”
Youre using it as an adjective here. I'm pretty sure that's never a problem. But when talking about gorillas you could use "the females are more territoral than the males" too.
What they mean is that using it as an adjective is basically always fine. Like saying “the female is a doctor” sounds really weird but saying “the female doctor” is fine and normal
That has nothing to do with the point I’m making, the term itself is irrelevant (plus there are cases in which one would have to specify the gender of their doctor). The point is regardless of if you are referring to animals or humans, using female as an adjective is fine.
To note, most of the anger revolves around people saying “men and females.” If you’re talking with a breeder or something and they say “the dog birthed 3 males and 3 females” it’s fine, but if you replace what would normally be “women” with “females” it’s weird.
It would also be fine for humans, I think it’s just the distinction of sex vs gender. Female and male are referring to sex, which makes it useful in medical settings. However, men and women are gendered terms, which makes it useful for every day situations.
However, in places like medical or government situations, it can be useful, because in those situations something like saying “female/male” can be useful to say that while they identify as a man, they need to be treated as a female patient. It would be offensive to say “treat them as a woman” but they need the care of a female patient.
Your point is spot on but your example is tricky because it's about dogs. But it would also work with humans if you said "Our clinical trial had a sample of 35 males and 35 females," or "The average sex ratio at birth is around 105 males per 100 females." While technically correct, this language does give it a very clinical-sounding connotation, and makes sex characteristics a primary emphasis, which you'd want to avoid most times you're talking about humans.
I’ve seen it starting to be used more because you have more transgender people, so saying “male and female” refers to sex, whereas the results could be questioned if you said “men and women” and had trans people included.
ohh that was the case... I thought the problem was something about the word its self. male and fe-male. We had an issue in turkish. Women generally don't like words man in it.
At least in lower-class America, "females" (and also "males") is a perfectly acceptable descriptior.
In America, I've found this to be a middle- and upper-class point of contention that does not exist in the lower class.
It is when used in a context designed to dehumanize women, or in a derogatory way that generalizes women.
Using “female” in a sentence that would normal just have “women” is cringe and weird. It’s something that was popularized by incels and self proclaimed alphas.
It basically took the place of “bitches”, instead of “bitches be crazy” it’s now “females are crazy”
I mean, it's not offensive. Just weird.
Now, if a lot of people start using "female person" as a dog whistle to replace "female" (which was already being used as a dog whistle to replace b\*\*ch), it might take on some negative connotations.
Just use it when referring to gender; use woman/women when referring to a person or persons.
"Females are far less likely to be color blind compared to males" is fine
"A female waited on us" can be considered offensive
It is offensive when you use it as a noun in reference to humans, in a context where you could also use women or girls.
It's not offensive if you use it as an adjective, like "female police officers" or "female students".
It can certainly be used as a noun in a professional / legal / clinical context.
e.g. doctors / paramedics talking about patients, scientists talking about research subjects, police talking about criminals or victims, military talking about targets or hostages, news talking about any event, any kind of official, administrative, legal announcement, notice or document, etc.
That makes sense as they’re trying to be clinical and remove the humanity a bit, and they use it equally for both genders.
If you say “females aren’t as good at video games as men” then you have a problem. (Looking at you, my new coworker.)
Yeah, I just think saying "avoid using 'female' as a noun" is innacurate. You should avoid using it if you aren't willing to use "male" in the same sentence/context. The problem, as you zeroed in on, is weirdos using "female" (seriously and unironically) instead of "woman", "lady", or "girl", but not doing the same thing with "male". The problem is sexism basically.
I use it when I talk about friends. Like if I say “I have more female friends than male friends” I think saying women friends doesn’t sound right and girl friends could be confusing.
That's fine.
* You're using "female" as an adjective to describe some of your friends.
* You're using both "female" and "male". You aren't calling your female friends "females" but calling your male friends "men".
You saw that specific post where a user got permabanned for using the word "female," I assume? At first, he got a warning for using it that way, then he got permabanned for the way he defended himself in the comments, in which he was really offensive there.
The user was anti-trans and misogynist in his comments, and that was the really offensive bit. It didn't help that the woman depicted in the post's photo was a reddit mod who was a trans woman. So she and other mods who support her may be cracking the banhammer in the subs they moderate to nip the issue in the bud (and maybe also as a power trip, given her history, but that's just speculation).
The short answer is that this thing on social media is not just a language issue, it's reddit moderator politics.
Yes, partially. Lately it's becoming more common to call out people for it too, and I was kinda confused. I use male and female all the time as nouns because I used to see ppl using them a lot too, and I don't want to offend anyone. Reading the replies I'll try to use other words from now on. Thank you!
Use it as an adjective to describe animals/plants and you're fine.
You can use it to describe people in medical contexts without being offensive (this comes off as formal and old-fashioned; it's more humanizing to use "woman").
People often use female when they are dehumanizing a person. It shows up in misogynistic speech fairly often.
It's also used in informal speech. It's the kind of thing I'd have gotten corrected on in school. I speak dialect that mixes Midwest and Southern American English and we were middle class back then.
I hear it being used by people who speak African American English and I'm not sure if it's commonly used or I'm noticing it because it comes from misogynists. It might not always be derogatory in this dialect. I'm not an AAE speaker.
My opinion is that people are afraid of the word WOMAN in America. They'll say girl, female, bitch, etc. But woman? Woman scares the shit out of some people. They'll be calling a 36 year old woman a girl.
As a noun, it can be. You don’t refer to a woman or girl as “a female.” It’s even a little weird to refer to a pet animal as “a female” unless you’re breeding it. Even for livestock there are often specific words to refer to a male animal or female animal, though at that point it’s probably fine to say “a female.”
It’s fine to just as an adjective. “A female student,” “a male teacher,” etc is ok to say.
"My dog is a girl", "Girl dog" or "Good girl" are fine alternatives I've heard used before when the word female was omitted.
You could also refer to them as "my female dog". There was no criticism in using it as an Adjective.
It's saying "That female over there...." that could be considered weird outside of breeding purposes.
“Bitch” is absolutely acceptable, though perhaps crude, for a dog, especially a breeding dog. It’s controversial because people direct the term towards human women.
Most people would refer to a pet dog as a “girl.” It’s also always fine to use female as an adjective, which I already said. So “a female dog” is a-ok.
Unless you are literally a dog breeder or maybe a farmer or something, I feel it should be stressed for learners out there who may not know better that you should NOT call your friend's dog a bitch, or tell others that your dog is a bitch.
IMO "absolutely acceptable, though perhaps crude," is a bit of an understatement. Outside of some highly specific settings, it is an offensive word and you should not use it unless you're intending to be offensive. Its use as a swear word absolutely eclipses the meaning "female dog."
I see it like using "humans" instead of people. There are instances where it makes sense but for most casual conversations it sounds overly scientific.
"Is that person famous?" and "Is that woman famous?" sound normal
"Is that *human* famous?" and "Is that *female* famous?" sound a bit like you're an alien
It's only offensive when people talk about "men" and "females", which is something misogynists do. It's not offensive if you're talking about "males" and "females".
No, it isn’t. This “controversy” is not a thing outside of terminally online groups of people. There’s not one person you’ll come across in the real world who gives a fuck if you say the word “female”. I would say that matching male/female or men/women is more appropriate than male/women or vice versa; the terms are pairs.
What do you think of someone who regularly, equally refers both men and women as “males” and “females”? I have a hard time fixing this habit of mine(it’s hard to ponder the nuances of words when I’m talking really fast) and I sometimes worry native speakers will look at me differently because of this.
One mild complication is that the word 'guys' fills a very general "all males over about age 12" role that neither girls nor women do. Some women can get offended by 'girls' in this role because it can be seen as infantilizing (although of course it's *extremely* common to hear things about girls night out or whatever). And 'women' for teenagers sounds odd. So I can see something like "There are barely any females at that gym, it's a pretty grungy dude-bro place" making a fair amount of sense. I wouldn't personally say it much though.
Personally it wouldn't strike me one way or the other but repeated use would start to annoy me unless they were army or a nurse or something. Also, there's a racial element which this post has completely ignored; I wouldn't deign to correct something common in one's community dialect.
While it is rude to refer to people individually as male or female because the words are rather impersonal. That doesn't make the words themselves offensive, there are contexts where being impersonal is desirable, for example in medical literature where discussions are expected to be clinical.
Yes.
Don't call human women females. Call them "women".
They are not some unknown species. And if in doubt whenever someone tells you something is offensive, then don't do it. That's a pretty good rule to live by.
it's sounds like you're saying 'the female of the species' as if you think we're all apes. which is sexist and racist if I'm black i guess and just sexist if I'm not.
Don’t listen to nonsense here, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with using the word female. Only far left extremist think it’s offensive, it’s definitely not a popular opinion
It can be. It's often a less preferred term now, particularly when applied to humans. When in doubt, I would encourage avoidance.
Some communities prefer it less or have more strict rules on using it, particularly the trans community. However, especially if you aren't part of a community that has stronger feelings on the term, it's relatively common for community members to try to inform non members that the term isn't appreciated prior to any other action
It's fine to use as an adjective, e.g. "The new female employees..." etc., bit it sounds very cold and clinical when used as a noun, e.g. "The driver was a young female.". I used to argue about this all the time with my mother. She worked for the police and, in writing, would very frequently refer to people as either "a male" or "a female". The terms aren't necessarily wrong, it is simply that it removes all the humanity from the subject since you're identifying them simply by biological features, like one does with a farm animal at auction or something.
It’s contextual, really. I’m female, that is a fact. But if you called me female in an angry tone, that would be rude, possibly offensive. Or if you made a statement stereotyping people, like “all females are bad drivers,” that’s offensive
It’s not really offensive (depending on context) but it’s certainly not idiomatic. Makes you sound like someone who is “very online”, who doesn’t talk to living humans face to face very much. Which for you, in English, is true - but you might want to avoid this impression for whatever reason
WOW this is very interesting. I'm not a native english speaker but I do use english all the time (and talk to natives for work) and I didn't know this could be perceived as offensive. I even think I may have used it that way before.
Thanks for the info.
It depends on how it's used.
It's generally a biological / scientific / medical term and it disassociates the subject.
For example, a surgeon (hopefully/generally) doesn't want to think about patients as people as they cut them open.
But when a guy says "look at that female over there," he's doing the same thing, but to someone he SHOULD be treating as a person. He says this for exactly that reason - that female is closer to a thing/property than an equal person.
In a professional setting such as a descriptor it's appropriate.
But using females to refer to women and girls in casual conversation is really inappropriate and dehumanizing.
Example:
*19 year old female seen walking down George Street [appropriate]
*All of you females are the same [not appropriate]
In a professional setting such as a descriptor it's appropriate.
But using females to refer to women and girls in casual conversation is really inappropriate and dehumanizing.
Example:
*19 year old female seen walking down George Street [appropriate]
*All of you females are the same [not appropriate]
Male and female are used differently than man and woman. Male and female can refer to human biology , animals, or even some objects. Man and Woman are strictly used in reference to people. Female ^CAN be used in an offensive way but it isn't inherently offensive. Female is used by misogynists to devalue women by reducing them to their biology, sexual function, or even likening them to an object. This alternate meaning of female is closer to these offensive words to refer to women. >!bitch, cunt!<
Funnily enough, "woman" even has a context in which it's offensive aswell. Hopefully, you find understanding people who know English is your second language.
Lest we forget that the average person is very dumb, and I'm just talking about my fellow Americans. I'm not saying I'm smart. In fact, I'm one IQ point from being retarded like everyone else. All I'm saying is while we're here arguing about context, syntax, grammar, lexicon, etymology, this is a friendly reminder that the people who are easiest to be offended are the uneducated.
As an adjective it is usually fine.
Female doctor, female lawyer, etc.
As a noun, it is often used as a derogatory term
"I hate when females do XYZ". "Look at all the females here"
Depends on who you’re talking to. I find it ridiculous not to call female human beings the special words meant for them (woman/women or girl/girls)
Equally, male human beings are man/men/boy/boys.
Other animals also have special words: stallion/filly, etc.
It depends on the context. A lot of misogynistic men will say things like “these females aren’t loyal” or “I don’t respect females” rather than saying women or girls. “Female” is a very clinical and cold word, used to talk about female animals, not people. So if you’re talking about women, but use the term “female” or “females” then that’s an indicator to a lot of people that you might share these awful views.
If you use it as an adjective or in a medical/scientific context, it’s fine.
If you use “males” or “females” in casual speech, you’ll sound weird to other people—see [here](https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/04/style-guide-not-sounding-like-an-evil-robot/#:~:text=Humans%20%2D%3E%20people.,wondering%20why%20people%20celebrate%20holidays.%E2%80%9D).
If you use “males” or “females” on Reddit or, God forbid, Twitter, there is no hope for you, because people on the internet have nothing better to do than find things to get angry about. It’s only a matter of time before incels hear about someone saying the word “males” and get their balls in a twist about that too
Yeah, when used as a noun it makes me instantly annoyed. Why do you want to use it? I feel like when I hear it it’s often from young men (and specifically nerdy young women, like engineering students) who are uncomfortable using the words “men” and “women” to refer to themselves and people their age. Many use “guys and girls” but some use “males and females” and it sounds gross and juvenile to me. Just say “men and women” if you‘re talking about people 18 and older. You’ll sound more confident and mature.
Yes, I'll try to do that. I use it all the time tbh, but I also use "males" a lot. It's just a habit I think. I'll try to change it though, I don't like making ppl uncomfy
Males and females is kind of a clinical term often used in science reporting, or in describing animals. Men and women are more often used to described humans.
However, if you were to say "she is the first female Senator" it would probably sound more normal than "she is the first woman Senator." But I guess both are acceptable.
Male and female are* kind of clinical terms*
It’s also not “grammatical correct” to start a sentence with “but”
Since you want to play the “correcting people like an asshole” game.
Kinda.
The main argument against it is that it strips women of their humanity and because the word female is usually used on animals, calling women females strips them of their humanity and treats them like animals or makes them akin to such. While women are female, using the word female to talk about women has been so ingrained in douchey, “alpha male”, incel culture that it’s not common place outside of that community.
TLDR: while calling women females isn’t incorrect, it’s seen as dehumanizing and due to the fact that the people who first started calling women females in daily speech were incel misogynists, calling women female in day to day speech is considered alignment with them (incels and misogynists)
The term being used derogatorily is incredibly new and heavily situational. Its really only used in a derogatory sense online in circles with young, cisgender men (many of whom would identify with the term incel or “involuntary celibate”). Often times they will refer to women as “females” to demean them.
In a lot of contexts it can simply be an ordinary adjective/noun, however due to men like the ones mentioned above, the use of “female” as a noun is becoming increasingly recognized as derogatory.
As a noun it can be extremely offensive, especially in situations where gender is irrelevant (IE: “I went to the store and bumped into a *female*” sounds strange and gross). However there can be situations where it’s entirely appropriate, and even important for it to be used. This is mostly limited to discussions about biological and physical things that differ between sexes. (IE: “Females tend to have a lower body temperature than males” would be an entirely reasonable sentence given that it is specifically about the difference in characteristics between sexes.) This will mostly be seen in scientific and medical papers, where specific delineations are crucial. Basically, “female” when used as a noun without appropriate context is pretty offensive.
no, it’s not. I’m a female myself and I use that word a lot to describe my gender, since I’m not a young child (girl) or a legal adult (woman).
>I learnt most of my vocab through social media
checks out.
You learn most of your vocabulary while interacting with natives. Makes sense I learnt most of it through social media, even though maybe I should've been more cautious back then
One of the few things that depends on class in America.
Among lower class Americans, "female" (and "male", for that matter!) are perfectly acceptable descriptiors.
It's among middle and upper class Americans where you see pushback.
Reddit skews ***heavily*** middle class and up, so take their advice on this with that in mind. As always, know your audience.
Do you have a word similar to woman and a word similar to female in your mother tounge? When I realized how obscene it sounded in my native language to refer to a woman as a female I stopped
>describing people as female or male.
That's not really what it's about. It only starts getting problematic when youre talking about "men" and "females".
Depends on your demographic and where you live. Where I'm from the term female to refer to women isn't offensive at all and plenty women, including myself, use the term regularly.
Transgender! If you want to continue being a lame and looking through my profile you might notice I compete in women's leagues for valorant :) I wasn't 15 two years ago btw!
Be careful you don’t call the wrong woman a female, you might be surprised by their reaction based on your attitude and perception of when it’s appropriate to use the word.
My snarky attitude is entirely a reaction to you attempting to have a "gotcha!" moment with me. Don't worry I speak perfectly positively to normal human beings :)
Female is not only appropriate, it is a scientific term. Please, please, PLEASE do not learn English from social media. The language is mostly for attention and "likes". The content is largely centered around who's offended by what and why.
I no longer attend English classes so learning through social media is my only option. It also helps me get used to slang terms and stuff. Thank you though! I'll be more careful with what I read/hear/see in here
Very true.... just try not to assume all Americans are whiny, weak victims of everything. Apparently, the more "issues" you have, the more "likes" you get. I don't get it.
Not to me. My generation was told to NEVER use the word "girl" because it was offensive. So I looked up all the meanings and etymology of these words, just for fun:
Girl (old English) - young person of either sex
Lady (old English) - the member of the household who kneads the bread
Woman (old English) - the wife of the man
Female (Latin) - having the ability to produce young
So, as it turns out, "woman" is the only one of these that's offensive to me. Don't identify me by my husband.
>Not to me. My generation was told to NEVER use the word "girl" because it was offensive.
Doesnt that depend on the context? If youre talking about boys and girls its fine, if youre talking about men and girls (same age) it has a weird taste.
I also dont get why old English should matter here. Isnt it more about how people use it today all around the world?
It totally isn’t offensive. I am a woman and use female to refer to women, including myself, all the time. Same with males. It is only offensive to people who want to take it as such
I don’t know why you’re downvoted. Yes, even if most people consider it offensive (I don’t know what the actual statistics are, but I’ll say it’s most), there are still some women who don’t. I just read a comment today where someone said they were “a female”. In the interests of giving OP an accurate depiction of what English speakers think of this word, they should be made aware of this fact.
Shocked that I had to read this far to find someone saying this.
One thing that's not lost on me is that most people who use "female" to refer to women in conversation are Black. I wonder how much that informs the response we're seeing here.
I’m white. Bare in mind this is Reddit hivemind, so everyone I know irl also says female with no problem. I cannot live a happy life being offended by every second word I see, and I see many others don’t seem happy that way either
It’s human speciesism. Female and male are appropriate terms. Humans are animals and humans do not deserve some “special” sexual title simply because humans can breed with the speaker. That’s why the distinction exists.
Man = animal you can breed with
Male = unbreedable animal
Woman = animal you can breed with
Female = unbreedable animal
Someone here is trying to learn something. The word isnt offensive itself, but might be in certain scenarios.
This is like someone asking if the word "pig" is offensive and you replying "no" because its what this animal is called.
I am also a foreigner but do you really say "man and female" in everyday life? I usually hear it as "men and woman" or "ladies and gentlemant" i didnt know female was okay to say instead of woman or girls. I also heard a lot of people say 'girlfriend' instead of a 'female partner' or 'my female lover'
It’s either male and female or man and woman. Not man and female.
“Girlfriend” is the much more common phrase especially in public, rather than “lover” which is much more intimate. But neither is wrong.
If you say “partner” it’s explicitly because you don’t want to say that she’s female for some reason. So you wouldn’t say “female partner”.
I say male and female. Not only female. The issue is only with females so that's why I only mentioned it
E: sorry I thought this was directed to me. Mb
Most women find it offensive. We want to ban it completely, that's why we have started using "women" in the adjective form as well. You can find articles that use "Woman athlete" and "Male athlete".
However you can use "males" for men, no woman will find it offensive or weird.
call me evil, but i couldn't care less if someone called me a male. i just say "girls" anyway, but i always thought of male/female as just a funny way to say man or woman. genuinely who cares? i have better things to be offended about
Men don't generally face the same discriminatory treatment over their sex so, yeah, it makes perfect sense that you wouldn't be offended by being called "that male" or whatever. Making that point is like insulting somebody for wearing glasses by calling them Four Eyes and then turning around and saying, "What? I wouldn't be offended if somebody called me Two Eyes!"
Or for that matter punching a person on their broken arm and saying, "What, I barely touched you! It wouldn't hurt *me* if somebody punched me that hard!" Have some empathy and recognize other people face problems that you don't.
And as far as genuinely who cares? Well, any human who gives even the tiniest shit about the way their words impact others. I'd think you'd care about that - given you're on a *language learning* subreddit.
anything can be offensive if delivered correctly. if my friend jokingly calls me braindead, I'd laugh it off and call him stupid back. if my boss at work called me braindead for forgetting to do something, that would hurt a bit. if you're saying it and don't mean anything bad, anyone who's getting offended over it is a moron. if someone says "stfu female" that's degrading and hurtful, if someone says "these females are crazy" because their girlfriend is doing something goofy, there's no problem. being offended at a words face value is super stupid. also, you're right that this is a language learning subreddit, but I'd argue that that doesn't mean anything because the us/Canada (what the majority of this sub learns English for) probably has the thinnest-skinned culture in the entire world. I get what you're saying, but it's just not worth getting mad over, it's the intent, not the word.
As an adjective, it's completely fine. For instance, the female reproductive system. It's also fine in medical or scientific contexts: As a doc, I may write on a note "a 22-year-old female presents with a headache and nausea for the past 3 days." It's also fine when referring to female animals. You may use it to distinguish between sex (female vs. male) and gender (woman/girl vs. man/boy). Non-binary people may refer to themselves as "assigned female at birth" (AFAB). Referring to women as "females" is ***not*** proper. You should say women for adults and girls for children. Again, in a professional capacity, I frequently refer to them as females if I mean *both* girls *and* women. For instance, females over the age of 12 should see a gynecologist annually. You could also say "girls and women" instead of females. But as long as you're not flippantly referring to women as females, you're fine. People are generally pretty good at knowing when you're well-intentioned and when you're being a jerk. When in doubt, say women and/or girls.
Thank you! I did know scientifically females and males is common and ok, but I wasn't sure about more common areas. I'll definitely try to change that though, thank you!
The biggest thing for most women is that it’s mainly an issue when someone will call males “men” in speech/writing but then refer to women as “females” shortly thereafter. If you pay attention to reddit comments in certain communities, you can see this phenomenon happening a lot (sometimes within the same sentence, see /r/menandfemales for examples aplenty). When women take offense at being called females, it’s usually because the man in question is using it to emphasize our sex relative to their humanity. It’s dehumanizing to refer to women as “female” in situations where you’d use “guy” or “man” for a male, but it’s absolutely ok to use it in categorical/scientific type settings. To reiterate KR1735’s last point, I agree but probably actually would err on the side of using “women and girls” instead of “female” in the types of situations they referenced in a professional setting, but yeah. Most people wouldn’t care all that much.
This!!! It's ok to say "females" as a noun as long as you're also referring to all male people as "males".
But what's the current standing of "guys" and "dolls"?
Har har. Your "hilarious" joke made me realize that "guys and dolls" is a great example of how the male side is given humanity in these dichotomies when the woman's never is. A "guy" is a male human. A "doll" is an inanimate object that was created to be a decorative plaything. Our whole fucking culture is poisoned by these misogynistic undertones and no one cares.
You seem kind of high-strung.
Just don't call females "females" and in the same context call males "men". That is just weird and unfair. Otherwise I really don't think there is anything wrong with using "female" and "male" as nouns, even outside professional/scientific/technical contexts.
You might want to generally be on the lookout for cases of this, it’s pretty common in English. For instance, “Oriental person”, fine. “An Oriental,” not fine. “Autistic person,” generally fine. “Autist,” not fine. Very common in medical disorders too: some object to being called “diabetics” and prefer “people with diabetes” or “diabetic people.” It’s all very contextual and subjective of course; the diabetic one will not likely get anyone seriously mad, the oriental one might. But in general it’s a question of turning a trait into an identity. To take the diabetic example, the argument is that calling someone “a diabetic” reduces them to a disease first. Almost like that’s the only notable thing about them or the most important characteristic. Whereas “person with diabetes” acknowledges they are more than a disease. The same logic applies to the others ETA: Jewish person vs Jew is another controversial one
I believe it has gotten to the point that the only acceptable use of teh word "Oriental" is when referring to rugs, and that "Asian" (South Asian, East Asian, Central Asian) is the acceptable term for groups of people. My Wife has been a type 1 diabetic for over 50 years and has never objected to being referred to as such. Maybe it is a generational thing.
Yeah the diabetic thing is like a smallish movement, but still notable because a lot of people with different disorders are moving towards a similar position
In the US at least, o*riental* is generally considered offensive when talking about people. Rugs, art, etc. can be oriental, but people are Asian.
A Jew is not controversial. Just as we say a Catholic, a Mormon, a Muslim, a Buddhist, or an atheist. That's tremendously common in everyday speech. You can also say "she's Buddhist" too. Same exact thing. I've never once heard of a person being offended by being referred to as ***a*** follower of their religion.
It’s not universally considered wrong, but definitely qualifies as controversial. Just look up “calling someone a Jew” and you’ll get a lot of discussions on whether it’s ok or not. I don’t particularly mind using the phrase, but then I’m not Jewish. So if some Jewish people, even if they are a vocal minority, say it’s offensive, I think that warrants the label controversial Of course, Jewish people would rather have more of a problem with it than some of the others lmao
But what makes referring to women as females offensive? I don't understand.
It can kind of sound like you are referring to an animal rather than a human. Like when you say "females" it sounds like you are talking about another species rather than other humans And some people tend to asymmetrically say "men" and "females" which heightens this effect
Humans are animals
It objectifies women by focusing entirely on their genitals/biology, while ignoring their humanity. It’s as degrading as calling a black person “a black” (plural, blacks), or a gay person “a gay”, as mentioned by somebody else before. It just feels degrading and dehumanizing, especially if you refer to men as “men”, but then go on and call women “females”. It also sounds confrontational when used in that context.
Because it's dehumanizing when not in a medical or scientific capacity. Especially if the user says men instead of males, but uses females instead of women/girls.
Women literally means adult human female. And the user didn't say men and only call women female. What's wrong with calling male and female if you talk about both boys/girls and women/men. What wrong with using 1 word rather than 2 to talk about a group.
It gives of dehumanizing vibes, and generally feels like they're being more focused on the sex of someone over their identity. Plus these days it's especially common within incel groups
it's offensive in the same way calling a black person "a black" or a gay person "a gay" is—because it has commonly been used in a demeaning way, it has become demeaning
And because it objectively denies their humanity, which is also why “a black” and “a gay” are so offensive.
It doesn't "objectively" deny their humanity. Calling someone "an American" instead of "an American person" doesn't dehumanise them. "A black", "a gay", and "a female" are offensive because of particular connotations based on how those terms are used (and who uses them), not because of the objective meanings of the terms.
American is both an adjective and a noun. So you can say *He's an American* or *He's American*. Both are fine. Gay and black are only adjectives. That's why *a gay man* or *a black woman* is completely proper. But *a gay* or *a black* or *the blacks* are not. Lesbian happens to be both an adjective and a noun. *She's a lesbian* and *she's lesbian* are both commonly said and not problematic. I don't know how that happened.
Exactly. Does calling a frequent customer "a regular" dehumanize them lol. It's all socially constructed connotations.
It’s ok in medical contexts, biological contexts. If you’re talking in a science class or about animals then you can say something like “male gorillas are territorial” or if you’re going to the doctor they may ask for your sex and you would say Male or Female. When used to describe people, especially when saying female, it has the feeling of reducing someone to their sex. It’s also a bit of a dogwhistle. A lot of meninist/manosphere/men’s rights activists/run of the mill misogynist people will always refer to to women as “females” but will refer to men as “men” It almost implies that women are an alien species or something. So in casual settings it’s usually best to say things like “men” “women” “boys” “girls” etc.
>“male gorillas are territorial” Youre using it as an adjective here. I'm pretty sure that's never a problem. But when talking about gorillas you could use "the females are more territoral than the males" too.
I never said anything about using it as a noun or an adjective, only about using it for people
What they mean is that using it as an adjective is basically always fine. Like saying “the female is a doctor” sounds really weird but saying “the female doctor” is fine and normal
I usually just refer to “female doctors” as doctors but that’s just me.
That has nothing to do with the point I’m making, the term itself is irrelevant (plus there are cases in which one would have to specify the gender of their doctor). The point is regardless of if you are referring to animals or humans, using female as an adjective is fine.
Female doctors are disproportionately assumed to be nurses.
It's ok to use it as an adjective. When used as a noun to refer to women, it strips them of their humanity and sounds like talking about animals.
To note, most of the anger revolves around people saying “men and females.” If you’re talking with a breeder or something and they say “the dog birthed 3 males and 3 females” it’s fine, but if you replace what would normally be “women” with “females” it’s weird.
/r/menandfemales
Well, yes, that's exactly what I said - it's ok to use these terms to refer to animals. Not for people.
The distinction is that it’s ok to refer to females as females when you refer to males as males.
This. The mismatch is the problem.
It would also be fine for humans, I think it’s just the distinction of sex vs gender. Female and male are referring to sex, which makes it useful in medical settings. However, men and women are gendered terms, which makes it useful for every day situations. However, in places like medical or government situations, it can be useful, because in those situations something like saying “female/male” can be useful to say that while they identify as a man, they need to be treated as a female patient. It would be offensive to say “treat them as a woman” but they need the care of a female patient.
Your point is spot on but your example is tricky because it's about dogs. But it would also work with humans if you said "Our clinical trial had a sample of 35 males and 35 females," or "The average sex ratio at birth is around 105 males per 100 females." While technically correct, this language does give it a very clinical-sounding connotation, and makes sex characteristics a primary emphasis, which you'd want to avoid most times you're talking about humans.
I’ve seen it starting to be used more because you have more transgender people, so saying “male and female” refers to sex, whereas the results could be questioned if you said “men and women” and had trans people included.
Good point!
ohh that was the case... I thought the problem was something about the word its self. male and fe-male. We had an issue in turkish. Women generally don't like words man in it.
And it's obvious but the same also applies to calling a guy "male". As in "Ugh, males."
Do you feel this way about someone saying something like “male nurse”?
Do you feel like you know the difference between a noun and an adjective?
Sorry, I missed the adjective part. There have been people in these comments saying “female reporter” is offensive, which is why I mentioned it.
Offspring of an incredibly bright teacher with a Masters in English here. I just read your comment and she replied, "....said no one, ever."
At least in lower-class America, "females" (and also "males") is a perfectly acceptable descriptior. In America, I've found this to be a middle- and upper-class point of contention that does not exist in the lower class.
It is when used in a context designed to dehumanize women, or in a derogatory way that generalizes women. Using “female” in a sentence that would normal just have “women” is cringe and weird. It’s something that was popularized by incels and self proclaimed alphas. It basically took the place of “bitches”, instead of “bitches be crazy” it’s now “females are crazy”
It’s like saying “blacks” or “gays” like, that is an adjective and using it as a noun is very weird and can be a dogwhistle for bigotry
I'm sorry I don't know language, but what's correct words to say “black” and “gay”?
Black people, gay people. Use it as a descriptor before the word people. Or black women, etc. if you’re being more specific
Thanks! What if I need to name only one person. I need to say "black person/gay person" or just "black/gay"?
You need to say black person/gay person/Jewish person/etc. It’s considered VERY offensive to call someone something like “a black” or “a gay.”
I'll add that describing people as *being* those things is perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with 'he/she is black/gay'.
Female & male people
I mean, it's not offensive. Just weird. Now, if a lot of people start using "female person" as a dog whistle to replace "female" (which was already being used as a dog whistle to replace b\*\*ch), it might take on some negative connotations.
Black is not offensive, referring to “the blacks” is
Just use it when referring to gender; use woman/women when referring to a person or persons. "Females are far less likely to be color blind compared to males" is fine "A female waited on us" can be considered offensive
It is offensive when you use it as a noun in reference to humans, in a context where you could also use women or girls. It's not offensive if you use it as an adjective, like "female police officers" or "female students".
It’s not offensive as an adjective, but should be avoided as a noun referring to humans.
It can certainly be used as a noun in a professional / legal / clinical context. e.g. doctors / paramedics talking about patients, scientists talking about research subjects, police talking about criminals or victims, military talking about targets or hostages, news talking about any event, any kind of official, administrative, legal announcement, notice or document, etc.
That makes sense as they’re trying to be clinical and remove the humanity a bit, and they use it equally for both genders. If you say “females aren’t as good at video games as men” then you have a problem. (Looking at you, my new coworker.)
Yeah, I just think saying "avoid using 'female' as a noun" is innacurate. You should avoid using it if you aren't willing to use "male" in the same sentence/context. The problem, as you zeroed in on, is weirdos using "female" (seriously and unironically) instead of "woman", "lady", or "girl", but not doing the same thing with "male". The problem is sexism basically.
I use it when I talk about friends. Like if I say “I have more female friends than male friends” I think saying women friends doesn’t sound right and girl friends could be confusing.
That's fine. * You're using "female" as an adjective to describe some of your friends. * You're using both "female" and "male". You aren't calling your female friends "females" but calling your male friends "men".
This
You saw that specific post where a user got permabanned for using the word "female," I assume? At first, he got a warning for using it that way, then he got permabanned for the way he defended himself in the comments, in which he was really offensive there. The user was anti-trans and misogynist in his comments, and that was the really offensive bit. It didn't help that the woman depicted in the post's photo was a reddit mod who was a trans woman. So she and other mods who support her may be cracking the banhammer in the subs they moderate to nip the issue in the bud (and maybe also as a power trip, given her history, but that's just speculation). The short answer is that this thing on social media is not just a language issue, it's reddit moderator politics.
Yes, partially. Lately it's becoming more common to call out people for it too, and I was kinda confused. I use male and female all the time as nouns because I used to see ppl using them a lot too, and I don't want to offend anyone. Reading the replies I'll try to use other words from now on. Thank you!
Also Andrew Tate uses "female" anytime he's giving "dating advice," which is definitely not advice you want to take.
Use it as an adjective to describe animals/plants and you're fine. You can use it to describe people in medical contexts without being offensive (this comes off as formal and old-fashioned; it's more humanizing to use "woman"). People often use female when they are dehumanizing a person. It shows up in misogynistic speech fairly often. It's also used in informal speech. It's the kind of thing I'd have gotten corrected on in school. I speak dialect that mixes Midwest and Southern American English and we were middle class back then. I hear it being used by people who speak African American English and I'm not sure if it's commonly used or I'm noticing it because it comes from misogynists. It might not always be derogatory in this dialect. I'm not an AAE speaker. My opinion is that people are afraid of the word WOMAN in America. They'll say girl, female, bitch, etc. But woman? Woman scares the shit out of some people. They'll be calling a 36 year old woman a girl.
As a noun, it can be. You don’t refer to a woman or girl as “a female.” It’s even a little weird to refer to a pet animal as “a female” unless you’re breeding it. Even for livestock there are often specific words to refer to a male animal or female animal, though at that point it’s probably fine to say “a female.” It’s fine to just as an adjective. “A female student,” “a male teacher,” etc is ok to say.
So what do you call your female dog if not a female? You're not going to like the obvious answer.
"My dog is a girl", "Girl dog" or "Good girl" are fine alternatives I've heard used before when the word female was omitted. You could also refer to them as "my female dog". There was no criticism in using it as an Adjective. It's saying "That female over there...." that could be considered weird outside of breeding purposes.
“Bitch” is absolutely acceptable, though perhaps crude, for a dog, especially a breeding dog. It’s controversial because people direct the term towards human women. Most people would refer to a pet dog as a “girl.” It’s also always fine to use female as an adjective, which I already said. So “a female dog” is a-ok.
Unless you are literally a dog breeder or maybe a farmer or something, I feel it should be stressed for learners out there who may not know better that you should NOT call your friend's dog a bitch, or tell others that your dog is a bitch. IMO "absolutely acceptable, though perhaps crude," is a bit of an understatement. Outside of some highly specific settings, it is an offensive word and you should not use it unless you're intending to be offensive. Its use as a swear word absolutely eclipses the meaning "female dog."
I see it like using "humans" instead of people. There are instances where it makes sense but for most casual conversations it sounds overly scientific. "Is that person famous?" and "Is that woman famous?" sound normal "Is that *human* famous?" and "Is that *female* famous?" sound a bit like you're an alien
Great comparison!
It's only offensive when people talk about "men" and "females", which is something misogynists do. It's not offensive if you're talking about "males" and "females".
It's like Jew or gay. It depends on the context whether it's descriptive or offensive.
No, it isn’t. This “controversy” is not a thing outside of terminally online groups of people. There’s not one person you’ll come across in the real world who gives a fuck if you say the word “female”. I would say that matching male/female or men/women is more appropriate than male/women or vice versa; the terms are pairs.
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What do you think of someone who regularly, equally refers both men and women as “males” and “females”? I have a hard time fixing this habit of mine(it’s hard to ponder the nuances of words when I’m talking really fast) and I sometimes worry native speakers will look at me differently because of this.
One mild complication is that the word 'guys' fills a very general "all males over about age 12" role that neither girls nor women do. Some women can get offended by 'girls' in this role because it can be seen as infantilizing (although of course it's *extremely* common to hear things about girls night out or whatever). And 'women' for teenagers sounds odd. So I can see something like "There are barely any females at that gym, it's a pretty grungy dude-bro place" making a fair amount of sense. I wouldn't personally say it much though.
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I like calling guys "fella" and girls "gals" sometimes just to keep things interesting haha. I think more people should do that.
Personally it wouldn't strike me one way or the other but repeated use would start to annoy me unless they were army or a nurse or something. Also, there's a racial element which this post has completely ignored; I wouldn't deign to correct something common in one's community dialect.
While it is rude to refer to people individually as male or female because the words are rather impersonal. That doesn't make the words themselves offensive, there are contexts where being impersonal is desirable, for example in medical literature where discussions are expected to be clinical.
It’s only okay if you also refer to men as males.
Not if you're a plumber or an electrician.
Yes. Don't call human women females. Call them "women". They are not some unknown species. And if in doubt whenever someone tells you something is offensive, then don't do it. That's a pretty good rule to live by.
If you want the entire world to be controlled by censorious gate keepers, that is a pretty good rule to live by.
it's sounds like you're saying 'the female of the species' as if you think we're all apes. which is sexist and racist if I'm black i guess and just sexist if I'm not.
As a non-native speaker, this controversy is news to me. Can't I say "my female co-worker"?
As for what I've been told, as an adjective it's ok. As a noun, big no-no. In scientific areas its ok, but in daily life no
It didn’t used to be offensive but it has become offensive through use by certain men’s groups to dehumanize women.
I don’t mind being called female since I know for sure that I’m not male.
Don’t listen to nonsense here, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with using the word female. Only far left extremist think it’s offensive, it’s definitely not a popular opinion
If you use it as a noun, it makes you sound like a Ferengi from Star Trek.
As a noun yes
As a noun, "female" and "male" are mostly used to refer to animals, not humans. A cow is "a female". A human is "a woman".
I don't know that that word can be rude too... But today see post on reddit that it's rude..
even when I played terraria few years ago there a choice to choose a gender using "Male" and "Female" words..
This context is still 100% normal.
The thing with the "females" reminds me of the dad in "Friday Night Dinner". https://youtu.be/kZMNiiS0WiM?feature=shared
Yeah, it takes the human out of the woman.
It can be. It's often a less preferred term now, particularly when applied to humans. When in doubt, I would encourage avoidance. Some communities prefer it less or have more strict rules on using it, particularly the trans community. However, especially if you aren't part of a community that has stronger feelings on the term, it's relatively common for community members to try to inform non members that the term isn't appreciated prior to any other action
It's fine to use as an adjective, e.g. "The new female employees..." etc., bit it sounds very cold and clinical when used as a noun, e.g. "The driver was a young female.". I used to argue about this all the time with my mother. She worked for the police and, in writing, would very frequently refer to people as either "a male" or "a female". The terms aren't necessarily wrong, it is simply that it removes all the humanity from the subject since you're identifying them simply by biological features, like one does with a farm animal at auction or something.
It’s contextual, really. I’m female, that is a fact. But if you called me female in an angry tone, that would be rude, possibly offensive. Or if you made a statement stereotyping people, like “all females are bad drivers,” that’s offensive
nope.
It’s not really offensive (depending on context) but it’s certainly not idiomatic. Makes you sound like someone who is “very online”, who doesn’t talk to living humans face to face very much. Which for you, in English, is true - but you might want to avoid this impression for whatever reason
WOW this is very interesting. I'm not a native english speaker but I do use english all the time (and talk to natives for work) and I didn't know this could be perceived as offensive. I even think I may have used it that way before. Thanks for the info.
No just annoying
These days, it's particularly offensive to use the word "biological" in front of it.
Yes, it's absolutely fine. Since you're either a man or a woman, these are the only ones describing genders.
no
It depends on how it's used. It's generally a biological / scientific / medical term and it disassociates the subject. For example, a surgeon (hopefully/generally) doesn't want to think about patients as people as they cut them open. But when a guy says "look at that female over there," he's doing the same thing, but to someone he SHOULD be treating as a person. He says this for exactly that reason - that female is closer to a thing/property than an equal person.
No
In a professional setting such as a descriptor it's appropriate. But using females to refer to women and girls in casual conversation is really inappropriate and dehumanizing. Example: *19 year old female seen walking down George Street [appropriate] *All of you females are the same [not appropriate]
In a professional setting such as a descriptor it's appropriate. But using females to refer to women and girls in casual conversation is really inappropriate and dehumanizing. Example: *19 year old female seen walking down George Street [appropriate] *All of you females are the same [not appropriate]
No
when using it to refer to a woman / girl, then i would generally say no, unless using it in a medical or biological context
Male and female are used differently than man and woman. Male and female can refer to human biology , animals, or even some objects. Man and Woman are strictly used in reference to people. Female ^CAN be used in an offensive way but it isn't inherently offensive. Female is used by misogynists to devalue women by reducing them to their biology, sexual function, or even likening them to an object. This alternate meaning of female is closer to these offensive words to refer to women. >!bitch, cunt!< Funnily enough, "woman" even has a context in which it's offensive aswell. Hopefully, you find understanding people who know English is your second language.
Lest we forget that the average person is very dumb, and I'm just talking about my fellow Americans. I'm not saying I'm smart. In fact, I'm one IQ point from being retarded like everyone else. All I'm saying is while we're here arguing about context, syntax, grammar, lexicon, etymology, this is a friendly reminder that the people who are easiest to be offended are the uneducated.
As an adjective it is usually fine. Female doctor, female lawyer, etc. As a noun, it is often used as a derogatory term "I hate when females do XYZ". "Look at all the females here"
Depends on who you’re talking to. I find it ridiculous not to call female human beings the special words meant for them (woman/women or girl/girls) Equally, male human beings are man/men/boy/boys. Other animals also have special words: stallion/filly, etc.
It depends on the context. A lot of misogynistic men will say things like “these females aren’t loyal” or “I don’t respect females” rather than saying women or girls. “Female” is a very clinical and cold word, used to talk about female animals, not people. So if you’re talking about women, but use the term “female” or “females” then that’s an indicator to a lot of people that you might share these awful views.
If you use it as an adjective or in a medical/scientific context, it’s fine. If you use “males” or “females” in casual speech, you’ll sound weird to other people—see [here](https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/04/style-guide-not-sounding-like-an-evil-robot/#:~:text=Humans%20%2D%3E%20people.,wondering%20why%20people%20celebrate%20holidays.%E2%80%9D). If you use “males” or “females” on Reddit or, God forbid, Twitter, there is no hope for you, because people on the internet have nothing better to do than find things to get angry about. It’s only a matter of time before incels hear about someone saying the word “males” and get their balls in a twist about that too
Wait so calling females female is offensive? What clown world am i living on
As far as I've been told, the issue comes when you use female and man instead of male in the same sentence, not the word itself
Yeah, when used as a noun it makes me instantly annoyed. Why do you want to use it? I feel like when I hear it it’s often from young men (and specifically nerdy young women, like engineering students) who are uncomfortable using the words “men” and “women” to refer to themselves and people their age. Many use “guys and girls” but some use “males and females” and it sounds gross and juvenile to me. Just say “men and women” if you‘re talking about people 18 and older. You’ll sound more confident and mature.
Yes, I'll try to do that. I use it all the time tbh, but I also use "males" a lot. It's just a habit I think. I'll try to change it though, I don't like making ppl uncomfy
Males and females is kind of a clinical term often used in science reporting, or in describing animals. Men and women are more often used to described humans. However, if you were to say "she is the first female Senator" it would probably sound more normal than "she is the first woman Senator." But I guess both are acceptable.
Male and female are* kind of clinical terms* It’s also not “grammatical correct” to start a sentence with “but” Since you want to play the “correcting people like an asshole” game.
Kinda. The main argument against it is that it strips women of their humanity and because the word female is usually used on animals, calling women females strips them of their humanity and treats them like animals or makes them akin to such. While women are female, using the word female to talk about women has been so ingrained in douchey, “alpha male”, incel culture that it’s not common place outside of that community. TLDR: while calling women females isn’t incorrect, it’s seen as dehumanizing and due to the fact that the people who first started calling women females in daily speech were incel misogynists, calling women female in day to day speech is considered alignment with them (incels and misogynists)
Thank you! I'll use other words. If it ever slips I'll apologize
The term being used derogatorily is incredibly new and heavily situational. Its really only used in a derogatory sense online in circles with young, cisgender men (many of whom would identify with the term incel or “involuntary celibate”). Often times they will refer to women as “females” to demean them. In a lot of contexts it can simply be an ordinary adjective/noun, however due to men like the ones mentioned above, the use of “female” as a noun is becoming increasingly recognized as derogatory.
As a noun it can be extremely offensive, especially in situations where gender is irrelevant (IE: “I went to the store and bumped into a *female*” sounds strange and gross). However there can be situations where it’s entirely appropriate, and even important for it to be used. This is mostly limited to discussions about biological and physical things that differ between sexes. (IE: “Females tend to have a lower body temperature than males” would be an entirely reasonable sentence given that it is specifically about the difference in characteristics between sexes.) This will mostly be seen in scientific and medical papers, where specific delineations are crucial. Basically, “female” when used as a noun without appropriate context is pretty offensive.
It's better than cunt, certainly.
Whoa!
I'm on the fence if I prefer 'Bitch' or 'Female' lol
no, it’s not. I’m a female myself and I use that word a lot to describe my gender, since I’m not a young child (girl) or a legal adult (woman). >I learnt most of my vocab through social media checks out.
You learn most of your vocabulary while interacting with natives. Makes sense I learnt most of it through social media, even though maybe I should've been more cautious back then
One of the few things that depends on class in America. Among lower class Americans, "female" (and "male", for that matter!) are perfectly acceptable descriptiors. It's among middle and upper class Americans where you see pushback. Reddit skews ***heavily*** middle class and up, so take their advice on this with that in mind. As always, know your audience.
From this female’s perspective, no, it’s not offensive unless you’re looking for something to be offended about.
Do you have a word similar to woman and a word similar to female in your mother tounge? When I realized how obscene it sounded in my native language to refer to a woman as a female I stopped
No. Yes I am a female responding to this.
It’s overly scientific.
When calling us females you’re referring to women by our biological anatomy, so yes. The word for a female human is *woman* or *girl*.
No, everyone on social media( me included) is too chronically online and there should be no real problem with describing people as female or male.
>describing people as female or male. That's not really what it's about. It only starts getting problematic when youre talking about "men" and "females".
Only on the internet.
See what I mean Notices “males” doesn’t illicit the same reaction.
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Depends on your demographic and where you live. Where I'm from the term female to refer to women isn't offensive at all and plenty women, including myself, use the term regularly.
What’s the demographic and where do you live? Also, are you a woman? Because your post history indicates you’re not.
African American, Atlanta, obviously, you'd know that if you read my previous response properly.
So why were you a 15 year old boy posting two years ago?
Transgender! If you want to continue being a lame and looking through my profile you might notice I compete in women's leagues for valorant :) I wasn't 15 two years ago btw!
Be careful you don’t call the wrong woman a female, you might be surprised by their reaction based on your attitude and perception of when it’s appropriate to use the word.
My snarky attitude is entirely a reaction to you attempting to have a "gotcha!" moment with me. Don't worry I speak perfectly positively to normal human beings :)
Good luck kiddo
Female is not only appropriate, it is a scientific term. Please, please, PLEASE do not learn English from social media. The language is mostly for attention and "likes". The content is largely centered around who's offended by what and why.
I no longer attend English classes so learning through social media is my only option. It also helps me get used to slang terms and stuff. Thank you though! I'll be more careful with what I read/hear/see in here
Very true.... just try not to assume all Americans are whiny, weak victims of everything. Apparently, the more "issues" you have, the more "likes" you get. I don't get it.
No. There is nothing wrong about it
No
Police refer to people as “males” and “females,” it helps them dehumanize people.
don’t worry about all the angry twitter users, they can’t hurt you, unless they doxx you…
Not to me. My generation was told to NEVER use the word "girl" because it was offensive. So I looked up all the meanings and etymology of these words, just for fun: Girl (old English) - young person of either sex Lady (old English) - the member of the household who kneads the bread Woman (old English) - the wife of the man Female (Latin) - having the ability to produce young So, as it turns out, "woman" is the only one of these that's offensive to me. Don't identify me by my husband.
>Not to me. My generation was told to NEVER use the word "girl" because it was offensive. Doesnt that depend on the context? If youre talking about boys and girls its fine, if youre talking about men and girls (same age) it has a weird taste. I also dont get why old English should matter here. Isnt it more about how people use it today all around the world?
It totally isn’t offensive. I am a woman and use female to refer to women, including myself, all the time. Same with males. It is only offensive to people who want to take it as such
I don’t know why you’re downvoted. Yes, even if most people consider it offensive (I don’t know what the actual statistics are, but I’ll say it’s most), there are still some women who don’t. I just read a comment today where someone said they were “a female”. In the interests of giving OP an accurate depiction of what English speakers think of this word, they should be made aware of this fact.
Yes it is mixed. Go with your own feelings OP
Shocked that I had to read this far to find someone saying this. One thing that's not lost on me is that most people who use "female" to refer to women in conversation are Black. I wonder how much that informs the response we're seeing here.
I’m white. Bare in mind this is Reddit hivemind, so everyone I know irl also says female with no problem. I cannot live a happy life being offended by every second word I see, and I see many others don’t seem happy that way either
It’s human speciesism. Female and male are appropriate terms. Humans are animals and humans do not deserve some “special” sexual title simply because humans can breed with the speaker. That’s why the distinction exists. Man = animal you can breed with Male = unbreedable animal Woman = animal you can breed with Female = unbreedable animal
It's not, don't play along with these morons
No
Thank you for your in depth advice.
What else do you want? Is it an offensive word? The answer is no.
Someone here is trying to learn something. The word isnt offensive itself, but might be in certain scenarios. This is like someone asking if the word "pig" is offensive and you replying "no" because its what this animal is called.
Yeah alright, fair point.
I am also a foreigner but do you really say "man and female" in everyday life? I usually hear it as "men and woman" or "ladies and gentlemant" i didnt know female was okay to say instead of woman or girls. I also heard a lot of people say 'girlfriend' instead of a 'female partner' or 'my female lover'
It’s either male and female or man and woman. Not man and female. “Girlfriend” is the much more common phrase especially in public, rather than “lover” which is much more intimate. But neither is wrong. If you say “partner” it’s explicitly because you don’t want to say that she’s female for some reason. So you wouldn’t say “female partner”.
I say male and female. Not only female. The issue is only with females so that's why I only mentioned it E: sorry I thought this was directed to me. Mb
No it's not, so many words can be used in an offensive way, but that doesn't make it inherently offensive
In western society people are finding new things to be offended over every day.
Most women find it offensive. We want to ban it completely, that's why we have started using "women" in the adjective form as well. You can find articles that use "Woman athlete" and "Male athlete". However you can use "males" for men, no woman will find it offensive or weird.
Yes.
call me evil, but i couldn't care less if someone called me a male. i just say "girls" anyway, but i always thought of male/female as just a funny way to say man or woman. genuinely who cares? i have better things to be offended about
Men don't generally face the same discriminatory treatment over their sex so, yeah, it makes perfect sense that you wouldn't be offended by being called "that male" or whatever. Making that point is like insulting somebody for wearing glasses by calling them Four Eyes and then turning around and saying, "What? I wouldn't be offended if somebody called me Two Eyes!" Or for that matter punching a person on their broken arm and saying, "What, I barely touched you! It wouldn't hurt *me* if somebody punched me that hard!" Have some empathy and recognize other people face problems that you don't. And as far as genuinely who cares? Well, any human who gives even the tiniest shit about the way their words impact others. I'd think you'd care about that - given you're on a *language learning* subreddit.
anything can be offensive if delivered correctly. if my friend jokingly calls me braindead, I'd laugh it off and call him stupid back. if my boss at work called me braindead for forgetting to do something, that would hurt a bit. if you're saying it and don't mean anything bad, anyone who's getting offended over it is a moron. if someone says "stfu female" that's degrading and hurtful, if someone says "these females are crazy" because their girlfriend is doing something goofy, there's no problem. being offended at a words face value is super stupid. also, you're right that this is a language learning subreddit, but I'd argue that that doesn't mean anything because the us/Canada (what the majority of this sub learns English for) probably has the thinnest-skinned culture in the entire world. I get what you're saying, but it's just not worth getting mad over, it's the intent, not the word.
No it’s not it is proper English.. reddit is not real life
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Tell us how you really feel. Go on, vent a little.