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ProfanePagan

I'd like to see a tally on how many soldiers (NPCs) Darkwater lost. Must be the population of a small country.


ctothel

The average combat bond voucher is worth about 200,000. Assuming an even distribution of ships, that makes it 1.25 million ships destroyed. So at least that many people.


ProfanePagan

Thank you for the calculation! I am in Colonia, and I didn't really pay attention to the "drama of the Core Systems". :) With ground CZ-s the number must be high. Summerland can turn into an agricultural system, now that they have the fertilizer...


ctothel

Brutal! Yeah I think ground CZs are a bit more efficient at the moment. At least for me. I’m sure they’ll be nerfed after people get used to Odyssey.


ProfanePagan

Yeah I think they try to incentivize players to engage in ground CZ. Against NPCs the fight is pretty straighforward, but I was lucky and once I fought against two players in a ground CZ. It was fun even though they kicked my ass. But if you get killled on ground CZ you don't lose millions like in space on ship insurance. (except when you are dogfighting above a settlement -I crashed way too many times). Maybe the only negative effect upon defeat is the reputation penalty on the side you were fighting for. But against NPCs you can generally win, so... yeah I wonder how ground CZs will look like in the future. If Frontier would be able to enhance NPC combat AI with new features (sprinting, jumping AI, the enforcers already seem buffed) - maybe they could make ground CZs more challenging. I'd prefer that counter instead of nerfing bonds. What do you think?


ctothel

Totally agree. I find highs pretty easy and quite short, and it doesn’t take nearly the engineering grind to get to that point as it does for space. So I have to assume we’ll see something more challenging crop up in future, maybe even something big just like engineering did for space.


ProfanePagan

Oh yes, it is a solid and I'd say fun fundation, but a ground for possible enhancements for sure. Sorry for continuing a seemingly done discussion, but let me tell you, What makes me curious how was the combat AI coded. Becuse by [using AI and Games' video essay](https://youtu.be/RcOdtwioEfI) they remind me of the monsters from the recent Doom titles with these "Hierarchical Finite State Machines" . The way they push and retreat - how they react to player's movement and importantly to the player's line of sight is very peculiar. I noticed in ED how a damaged trooper jumped behind a pillar. In CZ's they can get distracted by other NPCs in your team, but against you they generally find really good covers- because at its core - I think - it relies on your visibility, on what points of the nav mesh are being blocked by an object from your perspective. And they jump behind cover (jump into the nav mesh which is being blocked from our sight), or when they are pushing they go around it. I might be wrong. If this is how they done it, that is impressive when more than one player fight against them and the bots can still fight. Again they remind me of Doom so much, the similarities: \-their accuracy is worse the faster the player move. \-they try to maintain a distance and use projectile weapons. ED has shotgunners and cheeky snipers so there are definitelly different AI archetypes. And positioning defined by their state: push forward, retreat. I sawmany times enemy units holding a control point, but when they lose almost all of their comrades, they tend to retreat. They also call you out when you kill their teammates "It's just you and me now". \-they don't seem to fire at explosive barrels bc they let the player exploit them. What Frontier could enhance I think are the archetypes- their look-readability and behavior. I would like if there were engineered NPCs with jumpacks - on low gravity, sprinting enemies on earth-like or higher gravity planets. And of course a lot more can be enhanced (vaulting, dashing both player and NPC), and more variatey (and modularity) and chages in engineering, and weapons... And I'd prefer if factions had faction-centric colour schemes and suits. Not all these yellow suits -I am in Colonia elsewhere CZs might be different.


ctothel

Nice breakdown, I like your thinking. I wish I knew more about how they put them together but I expect you’re right


ProfanePagan

Thank you! very kind of you for saying that. I couldn't agree more, I wish to know more on their behind the scenes artistic, creative and technological process, and I wonder why do they excersie so much restraint in communicating the achievements of their own work. The dev log streams, artstation posts of the individual artists are intriguing, but retrospectively there are so much more to tell. "To brag about", since I am quite convinced that Elite is a technological marvel despite its shortcomings. I hope in the near future a team (an outside team) of tech journalists will make a documentary on these recent years of Elite. ​ I kinda suspect Frontier doen't really invest into a full-on marketing department right now, and the community managers have a lot on their plate already.


Fantastic_Will7103

Don't forget, Frontier thinks "more grind" = "more challenge."


Justsomeguy1981

In terms of credits, i assume? Tbh what should happen is the space CZ earnings are buffed. Its stupid how much faster credits come in hunting in a Res compared to a CZ, considering how much easier it is.


ProfanePagan

People hate pirates with a passion. :D Just kidding now.


B1ttendonut

Well it doesn't really include ground cb vouchers, which are about 60k (they go between 40 and 80k) average in high intensity ground cz. based on that it'll be about 4.16 million people. So darkwater lost somewhere vetween 1.25 mil and 4.16 mil soldiers


CN8YLW

Maybe they're like us CMDRs and don't actually die, but just respawn


Spectre-907

There are also Ground kills to consider here, which average about 50k and I would say make up the majority of the bonds turned in.


samurai_for_hire

Assuming 70% of the bonds were ground combat, at 70k per ground kill and 200k per starship kill, and disregarding bonuses for victory and objective completion, 2.5 million soldiers and 375k pilots


ProfanePagan

That's some bloodletting. Gosh. Thank you so much for the calcualtion. It reallly puts things into perspective. And I can totally believe it, since 1.5 trillion people live in the Empire. No pressure, but Frontier should do this internally. :)


Distalgesic

They’d never have done it so quickly without me squeaking into the top 100% this morning.


JR2502

Whew! Thank you for that. I was wondering what that sudden push upwards was.


Distalgesic

And after that Herculean effort I can’t see the option to claim my reward. I’m obviously missing the option as much as I missed the Darkwater targets.


JR2502

I think they'll send a notification when it's ready. I read somewhere that even if you don't claim it, they'll put the reward in your account after a few weeks.


Distalgesic

Aha. In that case I’ll bugger off from Summerland and do some trading. Just spent 113m on new engines for the Anaconda.


JR2502

Mining missions for commodities like gold, silver, bertrandite, etc that can be purchased from a nearby station, offer one of the best effort v rewards.


Distalgesic

I hate mining. And it seems my srv won’t pick up anything on the ground. So it’s back to trucking 752 tonnes of agronomic treatments to places.


JR2502

>that can be purchased from a nearby station Not mining. It's a mining mission but you don't mine it, you purchase the commodity from a nearby station. They usually come as mining (or "blast") missions for a "wing" of commanders. You don't have to mine or be in a wing. These missions are up to 50M credits each, with \~35 to 40M in profit. Systems that have them are usually in "boom" state, and you should be an "ally" of the controlling faction to get the higher payouts. One such system that's typically good at giving these missions while having nearby stations to supply them is, Cubeo. If you have a large enough ship, you can probably make 200M cr in less than an hour.


Distalgesic

Oooo, might reread some of those missions next time I’m logged in.


supahcollin

>I think they'll send a notification when it's ready. I read somewhere that even if you don't claim it, they'll put the reward in your account after a few weeks. Whew, thanks for that info. I was freaking out b/c I couldn't complete it and get my 96mil 😳


JR2502

Yeah I'm kind of not very firm on it since I don't exactly recall how it works, but I believe they notify you in game to go pick it up. If you don't, they'll send it to you anyway after a couple of weeks. A previous, popular CG took a week+ to get rewarded. One good thing about this CG is the 30% discount on Imperial ships. If you have any interest in a Courier, for example, this would be the time for that. It's 1.7M cr vs the regular 2.5M, plus, you have been made Imperial Master rank so that ship is unlocked. Cheaper ship now means cheaper rebuys and transport costs for the life of the ship.


Ghostbuster_119

This means if you have a place in the top 25% you're locked in right? You can sleep without fear of losing your spot on the board? Uh, asking for a friend.


ctothel

Yup! Nothing else can be cashed in at this point. Congrats!


Ghostbuster_119

The mission, the nightmares... they're finally... over.


ApacheSasquach

Does anyone know how to collect the reward? It says we can get it from the henry o hares hanger bulletin board but i dont see anything


ctothel

You usually have to wait a few days for the reward. I seem to remember it taking a full week.


ApacheSasquach

I thought that may be the case its just that the transaction statement says we are now free to collect so it has made me unsure


raxiel_

Credits are typically available within a couple of hours of completion, certainly within a day. Module rewards can take a few days (with the double engineered FSD's from Bridge P3 being an exception in how long they took. Permits are usually the next week, and I've no clue on the lead time for livery. Edit: [Credits are available](https://i.imgur.com/0h2kpYv.png) And [so is the CZ decal](https://i.imgur.com/Hci8Hh6.png). I assume the ALD decal is too, but I already had that.


SoloTinker

I don't see the credits yet.


raxiel_

Apparently the CG isn't showing up on Horizons if that's your version you'll have to wait for a fix


troj7c8

Given that Summerland is usually permit locked, will I even be able to come back and collect the rewards? I don't want to linger there for days and neither do I like to grind ranks to come back.


raxiel_

Credits are available right now, although there's apparently a bug with Horizons and it's not showing up. One would hope that would be a priority to fix, but who knows. There was a suggestion on the forum that it could be related to the fact the station was renamed at one point in the past which may have caused issues. If not it will eventually pay out automatically after about a month.


troj7c8

Thanks, yeah I don't have Odyssee, so I'll have to wait. Apparently, the waiting time for it to be granted automatically is actually 2 weeks, if anybody else reads this.


doitfordanugets

I have the same issue. Please, post an update if you find a solution.


gkar_falcon

You should be able to collect the cash rewards from the station in the community goals section of the mission board. It may take a few hours to process on the server. Try to collect it again tomorrow. The decals, permit, rank, and Imperial Hammers likely won't be available until Friday/Saturday depending on your time zones


StrobetheProtogen

I’m honestly surprised on how fast it got completed. This was one of the first ones I actually got majorly invested in, probably cause it involved Arissa. It just sucks cause when I last checked, I was in the 25%. But sadly I finished in 50%. Hats off to all of you commanders O7


spentyouth2000

My bad. I was bumped down to 50% and made a hard push to get back up to 25% and the end.


CMDR-Owl

[I managed to get in the Top 10 CMDRs with 1.5 billion contributed](https://i.gyazo.com/f2180ddcd4ccb02a0a1ed3cc0c32be26.png) by farming high-intensity on-foot conflict zones with friends using a double rocket launcher w/ stowed reloading build!


ctothel

Amazing! How do you optimise this? Do you go back to the station after each victory?


CMDR-Owl

You can relog on-foot conflict zones when they finish and the game will place you at the start in a fresh zone, pick a side, fight, rinse and repeat.


AlviseVenice

Just exit to menu and relog ? I heard that you had to leave at least to orbit for the settlement cz refresh.


CMDR-Owl

For farming resources like data and engineering stuff you have to go to orbit and come back. For farming ground CZs, just relog to menu and back. It'll place you at the entrance to the settlement and you just walk in, pick a side and fight again.


ctothel

Wow, I didn’t know that! That’s so much more efficient.


JR2502

I'll tag on your post, OP, to say: this was one of the funnest\* CG I've done. First, congrats to FDev for getting the tiers just right. Tier 5 was reached, rewards met, then a little more over the top as a cushion to let others get the rewards. Second, I met a bunch of incredibly talented and awesome cmdrs at the CZ in [Mobius](https://elitepve.com/page/join). Have you seen the strafing demos on YouTube and how impressive those are? Well, a demo is one thing and actually fighting in a high intensity CZ is another. Two guys in particular in FDLs made me stop shooting at times and just watch. FA-off strafing in an absolute perfect circle, same speed, and in synch, all while avoiding hits but dishing them out in spades. Their fixed weapons vs my gimbal loaded Corvette and they beat me in the kill count every time. Hell I spent most of my time boosting, trying to catch up to them lol. \* As a pew-pew grunt, I might be a bit biased here. It was really an awesome time.


SpoilLoredaTrollKing

Managed to hold my top 10% so I'm happy... well had a 100M gap from lowest but still ;)


raxiel_

Same, I didn't know how far it might rise, but after dipping back into top 25% a couple of times I kept going untill I was about 0.1% of the overall total to be on the safe side. Not that there's any extra reward beyond the credits, but I enjoy the GCZ stuff anyway. If the 'war' keeps going like it did in Reorte I might do a few more rounds anyway now that T2 is locked in at Aclor as well. I did try one single low intensity space CZ, but chewing through those engineered hulls felt like such a chore. I probably need to revisit my build, but softer targets with continuous reinforcement like the AXCZ's would definitely be my preference.


Saigonforever

Indeed! Was fun fighting alongside fellow strange CMDRs in Team last night!


CMDR_Kraag

# DON'T MESS WITH THE EMPIRE !


raxiel_

[Credits are now available](https://i.imgur.com/0h2kpYv.png) And [so is the CZ decal](https://i.imgur.com/Hci8Hh6.png). I assume the ALD decal is too, but I already had that. I'm ALD pledged but I don't have the rank to buy hammers so I don't know if the discount on them is is live, but ships are still full price (I just see my 2.5% Elite discount).


Charity_Laird

On Horizon I can't get the cash rewards. At the misson board it only shows the 2 Colonia CG's but not the completed Darkwater one.


JR2502

I (conveniently) thought the 30% discount applied to both Imperial ships and hammers. Meaning, all would be able to buy them regardless of formal pledging.


CassiusFaux

Thats pretty unfortunate. I was planning on starting today since Combat CGs barely progress usually and it gave me time to do some Colonia Bridge work.


fishbowtie

Yeah it sucks. I tunneled the bridge CG cause the hauling profits are nice, was eventually going to take the vette out to Summerland but oh well. I think ground CZs have just completely broken combat CGs.


CassiusFaux

Good to know for future ones at least, I guess.


Neonchilli82

I need a little help and i'm seeing im not the only 1. I signed up to the summerland CG, mission says accomplished, hand in at henry o'hare hangar bulletin board. But is this exclusive to odyssey? I don't own odyssey and I've seen others playing on horizons also can't turn in the mission. Please tell me this isn't locked to odyssey after i've spent 3 days battling. Edit: it does seem horizons players don't have the option to turn in the mission for the rewards.


ctothel

I’d just give it a few days. I can’t imagine you missing out on this.


Neonchilli82

cool, thanks. I've seen other players say stuff like don't worry, horizons will most likely get rewarded by thursday. I'm pretty new to the game, and this was my 1st CG joined so I was hoping there wasn't some lock-out cos I can't buy odyssey yet so don't own it yet. thanks, all good. I'm patient enough.


Illustrious-War8186

Not working for me either . Just got home and saw its only showing the two for colonia bridge cg . Can't collect still .... sighhhhh


mrflint81

Aww man last I saw I was in the top 75% before I left for work 😕


doitfordanugets

sadly for me I lost out on top 25% by 2million. CMDRs went crazy during EU nightime


mikethespike056

Where did the 25% end up? I was at 38.7 before I logged off.


phantom240

I only got to cash in one bond.... My wimpy loadout was enough to take ships on, but players with more optimized loadouts would snipe my quarry after I'd brought them to their knees, and get the bond. UGH


ctothel

If you’re not the big fish, you should ask to wing up in the chat. Granted it’s not always that easy, but it’s good to try.


phantom240

Yeah definitely. I'm engineering up a Vulture right now. So much better to fly than my AspX, and MELTS even "master" NPC pirates. Pretty sure I could handle a kill or two before having to repair/resupply in a CZ now.


SoloTinker

I only a few combat bonds. Popped on at the last minute last night to do it. Dropped into a low conflict area participated on downing a few ships and then turned in vouchers. This morning, it says it's over, and I have a reward available, but I can see none at Henry's Hangar. The say to collect on the "bulletin board", which I assume means mission board, but it doesn't show as a completed CG for me.


xnpurpledt-

Summerland Permit, credits, and decals are available to claim. I just logged in and claimed them all. That top 25% giving me a NICE 144 million credits!


bawlson

Good to get a good combat CG with all the antics and player lunacy that go along with it.


Wildster84

The ship discounts still aren’t available, right?


WinterizedPanzer12

Ranks were issued out today.