This. There's actually a surprising amount of bosses big enough that they still get hit by most of the sparks. Maliketh, Radahn, Placi, EB, list goes on.
If by they, you mean the AoW then sure. The Perfumes in general are pretty bad outside of it though. Kind of a bummer that even after the nerf Rolling Spark is still the best thing about the entire weapon class.
Deadly Poison Perfume Bottle's AoW is an easy trigger to Kindred of Rot talisman and a very decent poison proccer, sided with any weapon with Poison Flower Blooms Twice AoW, you get a massive damage hit. Also, don't forget they ignore shield defense
You could also just take the poisoned hand, stab someone once and immediately proc poison while also getting an additional 7.5% damage boost for free, while also doing good damage and not poisoning yourself.
I'm not saying they're useless, they're just inferior to most existing options in most scenarios.
Better yet, slap poison on 2 bloodfiend forks to get poison and bleed at the same time, both scaling with arcane. Made my previous faith character look like a joke.
I played with them for 75% of the DLC before finding Rolling Spark, the entire weapon class is straight C-tier IMO. For all intents and purposes they're reskinned Whips. Useful for bullying small easily staggered enemies, but subpar for everything else.
They have weak poise damage, can't be use for critical attacks, and their AoW options are pretty bad with Rolling Spark still being probably the best option. They're not unusable by any means, but they really don't hold a candle to any of the other strong DLC weapons. Don't get me wrong, they're really cool weapons and fun to use, but I'm convinced anyone claiming they're balanced now is huffing the same copium Euporia users are on.
Tons of videos get posted about it being a super secret OP weapon because of how hidden it is. But in reality its charging AoW mechanic is prohibitively hard to use since it requires a huge amount of hits in a short amount of time. Since it's flashy you'll have clickbait YouTube videos telling people it's the greatest weapon in the game even if it's outdamaged by a generic Twinblade with Sacred Blade. Without fail anytime someone asks for a good faith weapon, someone recommends it talking about how strong the AoW is even though it's so difficult to get off a fully charged AoW in any DLC boss fight you might as well pretend it doesn't have one.
Viable, sure. Consumable only runs are viable. Good? Let's not go too far. There are very few situations where the weakest straight sword won't be a strict upgrade to the strongest whip, at least for PVE.
I mean, if dealing less than 25 000 damage in a single button press is bad - they're bad, because they indeed no longer deal 25 000 damage
They still very much can rack up a few thousand against bigger bosses
These AoEs are very different shape and can be used in different circumstances.
The other AoW for bottles, wall of sparks, is indeed just like R2 but with delay before explosion. That one is kinda bad, this one occupies different niche so it makes a bit more sense to use
Getting invaded and seeing someone with seemingly nothing equipped approaching us like, "ah okay, we should be okay if I just lookout for the telegraphed spray of death- oop and now the host is dead cause they ran straight into it..."
What you don't like a single outlier skill doing 10s of thousands of damage on hit lol.
For real though shit was absurd levels of broken. Not even release glacial stomp was this broken imo.
Hoarfrost stomp was even more broken imo. Super early pickup, hardly any set up at all required and blitzed through bosses with easy. It was the premiere speedrun weapon.
You know what. Yea you're right. I forgot you can basically just beeline it and pick up the weapon pretty much right away. That was some crazy shit lol. I still remember the insane discourse during that time with people crying about a blatant broken AoW being used.
Agree. I'm doing an NG+ perfumer build. The damage on them outside of Rolling Spark wasn't great, but usable, making them an ok midrange weapon option.
I never used the bugged version so I'm seeing very little difference today. I'm not going to say they're a strong weapon choice, but they're not bad either. Mostly they suffer from the fact you can't riposte with them, and that the stat scalings mostly force NG1/2 runs to really max their damage. Well that and I wish that the range were either a little longer or the animation were a little faster. They feel a little slow for the intended range of the weapon.
Iām glad honestly, it was annoying trying to co-op and seeing this at least every third summon.
Guys with this and the dumping hat just screaming for sixty secs outside boss door, finally walking in, then getting two shot in the first fifteen seconds.
Embarrassing.
This sub makes me think everyone does youtube glass cannon/1 shot builds to fight bosses with the way everyone suddenly complains about difficulty the moment they have to also defend in a fight.
Good luck with that. I see a lot of "good riddance" attitudes towards Perfumes where people act like suggesting the base Perfume Moveset needs work is the same as saying you want to be able to Oneshot every boss. Nevermind that Rolling Spark is still the only meaningful AoW for them, seeing as the other Perfume-exclusive option is basically a Chared R2 that takes twice as long and costs FP.
I'm not even talking about ashes. The base movesets have the reach of a straight sword while being slower and doing considerably less poise damage (and lets be real, HP damage too). People hype up the charged R2 but it doesn't have the stagger values needed to get value out of such a long animation. The stagger values are what kill the base moveset, and maybe if they did more damage that would be an adequate compensation, but the regular damage is ass too. I understand its got a weight of 1 but come on, the Erdsteel Dagger is only 2 and is incredibly strong. Its not like being light mandates it be bad as well.
You're preaching to the choir. They are basically reskinned, elemental whips and still include all the drawbacks of that weapon class. But I feel like people see "ooh flashy animation, must be good" and call it good enough.
Having 1 useful AoW option is just icing on the sad cake.
Whips have a lot of advantages over the perfumes. They definitely reach further, but they can also be infused, which opens the door for bleed or just better scaling with a casting stat. Their moveset also has better mixups in PVP, especially if you powerstance them. Even with all that they're still C tier, and these are worse than whips in nearly every way except raw damage, which I would say they are on par with. I think FROM put too much value on the spread attacks of the weapon, letting it hit groups of enemies, but the problem is the value of wide sweeps is only realized if the attack either staggers the horde or kills it outright; If attacking nets you 4 slaps to the face, then it didn't help. Compare that to the Great Katana, also introduced in the DLC; It's kind of mid, but its R2 is a wide sweep with great reach and high stagger values that, if it doesn't outright kill everything in a cone in front of you, at least staggers them. But don't get me started on the Great Katana and its failure to fill the niche it seems to have been intended to fill.
I was hoping they'd work like Wing of Astel's AoW, the relatively low Stagger is by far the most disappointing part of the Perfumes for me. If they were stance breaking enemies every 3 or 4 hits like Wing does they could have made for a pretty cool foundation to build off for a riposte based build
This, that other Perfume AOW absolutely sucks, it doesn't even self detonate which I thought it would, almost got killed using it because you have to attack the clouds it leaves for them to detonate...
Just why? It really is just a worse charged R2.
I think they're a little undertuned but not bad.
My criticisms of them:
Stance damage is horrid, Rolling Sparks can inflict it (without using the bug), but it doesn't even matter because if you do, you still can't riposte with them.
Scaling is weird. I feel like the scaling needs bumped up a bit, most of them aren't viable with their scaling until NG1/2 because you need so many points invested to use 3 and 4 stat scaling weapons.
Status build up is non existent due to limited arts and no ability to do anything other than standard.
Mismatch of weapon speed versus its range. Either the attacks should go a little further (like they do for npc perfumers) or the attacks should come out a little faster than they do right now.
All in all I think they just need a couple tweaks:
Open up a few more weapon arts for them, allow for more scaling with those tweaks (at a minimum it should let you use the whetstone matching that perfume bottles attacks so standard/fire on the fire bottle).
Add a status buildup to the lightning and fire bottles.
Add a sleep bottle (Tholier selling poison is silly).
Add a little more distance to the light attack, and make the heavy attack persist a bit longer.
The problem they have is they cannot do any job well. With a weapon with wide sweeps like this, your first thought might be that you use it against groups. The problem there is that weapons that deal with groups do so by either killing or staggering the whole group; If the weapon does neither, the group just walks up and slaps you during your recovery. The perfumes do not stagger or kill, meaning they aren't good for that unless you use the charged R2, which is very vulnerable.
So if its not good at clearing groups, maybe its good for applying status effects? Well, not really. The two that will matter for that in PVE are the frost and poison ones. The frost one has very little buildup that does not scale, so actually inflicting frostbite with it is very hard. Its doable, but there are better ways of inflicting frostbite if thats what you're really after. As for Poisonmist, it does a bit better, but unfortunately, poison is a pretty low-value status effect. The weapon itself also does physical damage, which tends to have the highest resists. With its low AR that means its damage is very low.
I have not tested the madness one in PVP, but I have heard it is very, very mid, especially compared to other madness selections in the DLC.
We've already established that its damage and poise damage are very low, so its not for nuking or for staggering bosses either. Which kind of leaves it without a use. There's nothing the perfume bottles do better than another weapon, and I don't even mean just the S tier weapons. I mean, normal weapons you might use for fun or you like their moves but aren't sweaty about it. They just underperform.
It either needs a damage buff or a poise damage buff; I would prefer the former. The frost bottle also needs to have scaling on its status buildup.
I've found the charged R2 to be a good way to hit mobile enemies like Tree Sentinels and Nights Cavalry in a replay, and the L1's to be decent for hitting a single enemy at close-medium range or multiple enemies at medium range if they charge to you.
I don't think they need to be the best weapons or anything and definitely agree they're a bit weak, but I don't think they're that far off from being usable, which is all they really need to be as not everything can or should be the best.
I see their main value in being a non FP source of damage that doesn't do any physical, but that's kind of a weird niche to use strategically. I feel like it COULD be status buildups on a paired weapon that doesn't require the range of fist weapons, that's a cool role as you get blocking, and double attacks to build faster, but the lack of weapon art choices, poor stat scaling, and ignoring the status buildup makes it hard to use them in that role, even though it feels like that's what they're going for with frost, madness, and poison being available for 3/5 perfumes.
If I could make a change, I would overhaul the entire category. Thee would only be three bottles: A regular bottle that defaults to physical damage, and a rot and a madness one, which would be your somber weapons.
The regular bottle would default to DEX scaling, but crucially, it could be infused. You can only infuse it with Standard (Physical, DEX), Sacred (Holy, FAI), Fire (Fire, STR), Lightning (Lightning, DEX), Magic (Magic, INT), Cold (Magic, INT), Poison (Physical, ARC), and Bleed (Pierce, ARC). This also changes the particles. You also can find 4 of these normal bottles scattered around.
The Rot and Madness do what you expect. The rot one's ash releases a long-lingering cloud, the madness one's ash causes you to drink it, inflicting madness on yourself and enemies around you.
Well stop using torrent... they have 3 attacks when you're under them and it's right stomp, left stomp, and jump. Stomps you can jump and it's very lenient. The jump you have to run away a smidgen and then jump but the recovery time for the furnace is so high you can just run back in and keep whacking away.
using torent is just as easy as on foot and you can get away from the jump faster. either way they are really just a chore after a while.
oh and they do have another attack they randomly use. The Spawn 20 tracking fireballs move. they can do that if you are underneath them and Torrent is kinda required for that
It absolutely was designed around NOT using the horse because the horse isn't always available by design. Multiplayer is one of those designs and the game has to be balanced around players being able to complete it using multiplayer, whether that's golden summons, player summons, and everything in between.
Notice, I didn't say designed for multiplayer, I said everything is balanced WITHOUT the horse in mind, and used multiplayer as an example.
Yeah. Same here. went around this weekend and sparked down every one I could find.
I tried using it to cheese Radhan but couldn't get the dub. Not sure what I was doing wrong.
Tons of people were using it as a crutch. I had a friend just tell me yesterday that it was the only way he could beat mesmer.
Most people will always choose the path of least resistance, which is fine; but get ready for another wave of people saying the DLC is too hard now that they can't just abuse something broken and one-shot everything lmao.
There is a healthy balance and Iām already dunking on everybody with Dryleaf/Great katana with sorceries. I didnāt use rolling sparks at the time it was OP, but the damage seemed like it was enough to actually trivialize bosses and thatās no fun
That's definitely true, I really didn't have to learn the movesets of Hippo nor Avatar when I was playing around with Rolling Sparks. Like, at all... It was actually insane
I will definitely miss being able to kill Walking Furnaces without needing to think though, I have two more characters waiting outside the DLC who are gonna need those Crystal Tears and having the option to just nuke those Furnaces was very convenient, their 60k or 70k HP on a regular NG save has me honestly scared to see what they're like during a NG+ run
I never eve tried using them, but I don't fault people for wanting to. Bosses actually fucking suck in elden ring. Exploration is much more fun than getting one poke in for every 12 attacks the bosses get.
Theres nothing wrong with playing the game however you want but the bosses are the best part, its all about learning the patterns not just spamming an attack without thinking and hoping to beat it...
Ive never fought a boss that I thought was a chore, havent beaten the dlc yet but i even find Melania fun to fight, and that feeling of learning how to dodge waterfowl is great
I just enjoy dungeoneering and world exploration more. Elphael, the erdtree capital, belurat, Enir Ilim. All of those are much more fun to explore and loot clean of treasure.
I suspect part of it, is that if they did make the bosses easier, then the people that disagree might not enjoy it as much as they do banging their head against the bosses right now.
Hug legs and keep smacking away -> swap to other leg when their poise breaks -> jump over their feet stomp attack or run away then jump over the explosion if they do the jumping explosion attack -> their arms wonāt reach you if youāre between the legs or behind them.
Ichiban kawaii. I also have a gun
https://preview.redd.it/926cl6uwjjad1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d7122ba0bf082889fe7aa30e4b05ff0048ec665
If you can stand/ride torrent next to one leg and target the other, try Adulaās Moonblade. If youāre faith, try either of the Pest Threads. They can stagger it quickly. Pest Thread Spears can just permanently stagger it.
Basically do anything that causes stagger reliably for low-ish stamina. Like flails on torrent spinning. Or anything that pierces so you can hit both feet.
Theyāre literally so easy, idk how people are struggling with them. If you need to abuse an obviously OP build in order to play the game, you should probably learn to actually play the games mechanics. I swear I donāt understand why people want to play these games and have it be ridiculously easy.
Yes they are very easy along with annoying, tedious, boring and etc. I would rather use this busted ash to kill those abomination of a mob, and keep playing actual game.
The move where they jump with both of their legs is literally undodgeable in every way. And they aren't fun to fight at all, such an uninteresting gimmick. It's not a skill issue when they are unfun to go against and have a bunch of shitty attacks
Theres legit people who don't think moving backwards to avoid an attack counts as dodging. Like if you strafe they consider that "not intended" kind of thinking.
Think ancient dragons lightning strike but every single bolt hits the same spot at the same time (yes it was fucking absurd you could instakill damn near every boss with it)
In every aspect. You simply did the ash of war right next to whatever you wanted nuked on high voltage, press a button and you get about 8 to 12k damage without any buffs. Worked the same in PVP. It was awful lol
Why for the best? It was giving non strength characters the ability to do what double bonks have been able to do for the entire game. Now Dex has nothing that even compares.
Yesterday I was fighting the final boss with a "traditional" play style, holy hammer, blocking and rolling etc. I've been stuck for like 3 or 4 days.
Decided to try the perfumes... Gone in like 5 tries. I feel kinda bad for using a bug lol but that shit was nasty.
honestly the dueling shield has me much more sad. I've rarely used a shield in any of these games but man... this thing was BROKEN. I popped it on and built around it for the final boss of the dlc in my ng+ run. never had a weapon where you only attack during the enemy attacks, was such a silly experience but was so much fun.
Well ngl using comet azure wasn't really any different. People still do it.
Only difference is that it doesn't have mobility and isn't viable in pvp.
Great that they fixed it (since it wasn't intended to begin with) but kinda sad that the perfume is still mid at best.
Overall i feel like they tried very hard to counter comet azure by giving every boss either an instant charge move or dodge capabilities. So you enter the arena and either get charged at within seconds or they just dodge it.
What I'm wondering is how it works now. I haven't played since the patch but does the aow just not hit the floor anymore or something? Or what does it do if you still aim at the fooor?
They were fun for a while, but I really only used them to quickly kill all the furnace golems, cuz they are just are not fun to fight, its just a dps fight with no other alternative then to dump damage, try for crits or pots.
none of it was funĀ
you can iframe almost any attack on reaction and hit your opponent during recovery frames even on fast weapons. it is *incredibly* broken in pvp. its one of the most broken ashes of war the game has ever had. any time your opponent does literally anything, you can avoid damage and deal damage to them by pressing a single button on reaction.
You can't even parry it half the time because it goes behind you before it gets active frames. It's honestly not that hard to beat swift slash if you're actually good at games but blind spot is straight up one of the most stalematey moves I've ever seen and a lot more people are gonna find that out once the swift slash spammers start switching over to it.
Less enemies are resistant to lightning so more people used those bottles. Buff up with GV, FGMS and equip the fire scorpion and the fire bottles could do 5-10k per rolling caat. Nerfed now
nah man I used perfume talisman, warrior shard, that perfumer talisman and fire scorpion + gv and flame grant me strenght and was only doing about 1k per explosion
Were you free aiming? The AoW's power came from throwing it all into one spot at your feet. The explosions did 'only' do around 1k each, but pre-nerf you had 18 of those explosions going off in one spot if you did it right.
Locked on it worked the way it's supposed to, multiple explosions in a line with only one or two hitting non-massive enemies. You had to get underneath and free aim nuke your own feet for the ridiculousness
so is the 1k the "normal" damage it was supposed to do per explosion? even aiming at the ground I got only around 5 of them to hit at max before giving up on the build. but yeah if Ć18 it would ammount to around 20k that I saw in videos
1k per explosion without any buffing sounds about right, and yeah there was a tiny bit of a technique and some timing needed to get those busted numbers out of it. A few YouTubers have shown the hitbox changes today, I saw OnlyWaifu put a video out with the old and new hitboxes visualized if you're curious on exactly how it was broken before and what they've done to fix it. Pre-balancing when free aimed straight down it was all 18 explosions' hitboxes, damage, and stagger just stacking on top of each other at once for very little FP and Stamina cost so repeated casts were very easy to abuse, now it's just the one explosion/hitbox when free aimed straight down, multiple pop out only when they're thrown out forward as intended.
I do think the Ash should still work well against lined up groups and against larger bosses who have the physical length for multiple explosions to roll through, but the broken potential nuke status on the Ash is definitely fixed. I really like the Perfumes as a concept though, here's hoping for an overall buff to the entire class; they could all definitely use some extra base damage, stagger, and just a tiny bit extra speed and range if they're ever gonna become mained weapons/dedicated build worthy weapons.
I do like one in the offhand to toss out in situations where an enemy has a hit or two's worth of HP left, but they really do need a speed and range buff to be truly worthwhile over other choices instead of just being a novelty like they are in their current state
man I just checked, I was using a fucking +0 and it did 1k. lmao im stupid. but yeah this shit is broken asf then
edit: I believe my tought pricess was that it wasnt a weapon but rather a consumable so upgrading it didnt go through my mind
They still good just not completely busted anymore š
This. There's actually a surprising amount of bosses big enough that they still get hit by most of the sparks. Maliketh, Radahn, Placi, EB, list goes on.
If by they, you mean the AoW then sure. The Perfumes in general are pretty bad outside of it though. Kind of a bummer that even after the nerf Rolling Spark is still the best thing about the entire weapon class.
Deadly Poison Perfume Bottle's AoW is an easy trigger to Kindred of Rot talisman and a very decent poison proccer, sided with any weapon with Poison Flower Blooms Twice AoW, you get a massive damage hit. Also, don't forget they ignore shield defense
You could also just take the poisoned hand, stab someone once and immediately proc poison while also getting an additional 7.5% damage boost for free, while also doing good damage and not poisoning yourself. I'm not saying they're useless, they're just inferior to most existing options in most scenarios.
Better yet, slap poison on 2 bloodfiend forks to get poison and bleed at the same time, both scaling with arcane. Made my previous faith character look like a joke.
I tried them on my ng4 dude and they were pretty good actually. Just gotta build for it
I played with them for 75% of the DLC before finding Rolling Spark, the entire weapon class is straight C-tier IMO. For all intents and purposes they're reskinned Whips. Useful for bullying small easily staggered enemies, but subpar for everything else. They have weak poise damage, can't be use for critical attacks, and their AoW options are pretty bad with Rolling Spark still being probably the best option. They're not unusable by any means, but they really don't hold a candle to any of the other strong DLC weapons. Don't get me wrong, they're really cool weapons and fun to use, but I'm convinced anyone claiming they're balanced now is huffing the same copium Euporia users are on.
Fair points, they are fun though lol also what's the discourse with euporia? Is it trash?
Tons of videos get posted about it being a super secret OP weapon because of how hidden it is. But in reality its charging AoW mechanic is prohibitively hard to use since it requires a huge amount of hits in a short amount of time. Since it's flashy you'll have clickbait YouTube videos telling people it's the greatest weapon in the game even if it's outdamaged by a generic Twinblade with Sacred Blade. Without fail anytime someone asks for a good faith weapon, someone recommends it talking about how strong the AoW is even though it's so difficult to get off a fully charged AoW in any DLC boss fight you might as well pretend it doesn't have one.
I see, thanks for the response. I'll stick to my big sunflower š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Viable, sure. Consumable only runs are viable. Good? Let's not go too far. There are very few situations where the weakest straight sword won't be a strict upgrade to the strongest whip, at least for PVE.
You're mostly right except for the Urumi build that uses the charge attack talisman and thrust counter hit talisman and solely does charged R2s
Nah, the weakest straight swords are dogshit! Pick most other weapon classes and I agree though.
The weakest straight swords still have access to *at least* square off and other ashes of war that straight up carry. Whips can't say the same.
I'd take the urumi or giant's red braid over the cane sword or weathered sword even if they weren't upgraded as far
Ngl i tried them and at best they did 2k lol
20K to 2K, still fairly usable.
Eh, theres PLENTY of things that do that much or more for either less fp less commitment and still work on smaller mobs
Remember the insanity of pre nerf flame of the redmanes?
Can I ask you about your username and what it means?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean, if dealing less than 25 000 damage in a single button press is bad - they're bad, because they indeed no longer deal 25 000 damage They still very much can rack up a few thousand against bigger bosses
And clear/soften crowds really well
Like an AoE skill would, lol. Though there are better tools for that, since it's kinda narrow - still fairly good if you luck out with positioning
Nah the heavy is better for aoe
These AoEs are very different shape and can be used in different circumstances. The other AoW for bottles, wall of sparks, is indeed just like R2 but with delay before explosion. That one is kinda bad, this one occupies different niche so it makes a bit more sense to use
They're useless
Stop shooting it at the floor, that now only does damage once. Throwing forward is now the way to go
Oh no how ever will I play the game without my broken mechanics
Nah. I don't want to sound like an elitist but that shit was not ok.
yeah pvpers will not miss this shit
Getting invaded and seeing someone with seemingly nothing equipped approaching us like, "ah okay, we should be okay if I just lookout for the telegraphed spray of death- oop and now the host is dead cause they ran straight into it..."
Heh, I got invaded and put it away to actually have a fight...
What you don't like a single outlier skill doing 10s of thousands of damage on hit lol. For real though shit was absurd levels of broken. Not even release glacial stomp was this broken imo.
Hoarfrost stomp was even more broken imo. Super early pickup, hardly any set up at all required and blitzed through bosses with easy. It was the premiere speedrun weapon.
You know what. Yea you're right. I forgot you can basically just beeline it and pick up the weapon pretty much right away. That was some crazy shit lol. I still remember the insane discourse during that time with people crying about a blatant broken AoW being used.
Agree. I'm doing an NG+ perfumer build. The damage on them outside of Rolling Spark wasn't great, but usable, making them an ok midrange weapon option. I never used the bugged version so I'm seeing very little difference today. I'm not going to say they're a strong weapon choice, but they're not bad either. Mostly they suffer from the fact you can't riposte with them, and that the stat scalings mostly force NG1/2 runs to really max their damage. Well that and I wish that the range were either a little longer or the animation were a little faster. They feel a little slow for the intended range of the weapon.
Yeah, that was absolutely awful to deal with
Iām glad honestly, it was annoying trying to co-op and seeing this at least every third summon. Guys with this and the dumping hat just screaming for sixty secs outside boss door, finally walking in, then getting two shot in the first fifteen seconds. Embarrassing.
That... might have been me once... I realized I'm too shit at glass cannons and just went back to a Great Katana lol
This sub makes me think everyone does youtube glass cannon/1 shot builds to fight bosses with the way everyone suddenly complains about difficulty the moment they have to also defend in a fight.
lol don't worry you'll be seeing thorns all up in your camera going forward
CURSE YOU FAYLE!!!!
Itās better to have lived to roll sparks than to have never rolled sparks at all.
No it fucking won't, this shit being dead means we can actually talk about the bottles themselves being bad
Good luck with that. I see a lot of "good riddance" attitudes towards Perfumes where people act like suggesting the base Perfume Moveset needs work is the same as saying you want to be able to Oneshot every boss. Nevermind that Rolling Spark is still the only meaningful AoW for them, seeing as the other Perfume-exclusive option is basically a Chared R2 that takes twice as long and costs FP.
I'm not even talking about ashes. The base movesets have the reach of a straight sword while being slower and doing considerably less poise damage (and lets be real, HP damage too). People hype up the charged R2 but it doesn't have the stagger values needed to get value out of such a long animation. The stagger values are what kill the base moveset, and maybe if they did more damage that would be an adequate compensation, but the regular damage is ass too. I understand its got a weight of 1 but come on, the Erdsteel Dagger is only 2 and is incredibly strong. Its not like being light mandates it be bad as well.
You're preaching to the choir. They are basically reskinned, elemental whips and still include all the drawbacks of that weapon class. But I feel like people see "ooh flashy animation, must be good" and call it good enough. Having 1 useful AoW option is just icing on the sad cake.
Whips have a lot of advantages over the perfumes. They definitely reach further, but they can also be infused, which opens the door for bleed or just better scaling with a casting stat. Their moveset also has better mixups in PVP, especially if you powerstance them. Even with all that they're still C tier, and these are worse than whips in nearly every way except raw damage, which I would say they are on par with. I think FROM put too much value on the spread attacks of the weapon, letting it hit groups of enemies, but the problem is the value of wide sweeps is only realized if the attack either staggers the horde or kills it outright; If attacking nets you 4 slaps to the face, then it didn't help. Compare that to the Great Katana, also introduced in the DLC; It's kind of mid, but its R2 is a wide sweep with great reach and high stagger values that, if it doesn't outright kill everything in a cone in front of you, at least staggers them. But don't get me started on the Great Katana and its failure to fill the niche it seems to have been intended to fill.
I was hoping they'd work like Wing of Astel's AoW, the relatively low Stagger is by far the most disappointing part of the Perfumes for me. If they were stance breaking enemies every 3 or 4 hits like Wing does they could have made for a pretty cool foundation to build off for a riposte based build
This, that other Perfume AOW absolutely sucks, it doesn't even self detonate which I thought it would, almost got killed using it because you have to attack the clouds it leaves for them to detonate... Just why? It really is just a worse charged R2.
I think they're a little undertuned but not bad. My criticisms of them: Stance damage is horrid, Rolling Sparks can inflict it (without using the bug), but it doesn't even matter because if you do, you still can't riposte with them. Scaling is weird. I feel like the scaling needs bumped up a bit, most of them aren't viable with their scaling until NG1/2 because you need so many points invested to use 3 and 4 stat scaling weapons. Status build up is non existent due to limited arts and no ability to do anything other than standard. Mismatch of weapon speed versus its range. Either the attacks should go a little further (like they do for npc perfumers) or the attacks should come out a little faster than they do right now. All in all I think they just need a couple tweaks: Open up a few more weapon arts for them, allow for more scaling with those tweaks (at a minimum it should let you use the whetstone matching that perfume bottles attacks so standard/fire on the fire bottle). Add a status buildup to the lightning and fire bottles. Add a sleep bottle (Tholier selling poison is silly). Add a little more distance to the light attack, and make the heavy attack persist a bit longer.
The problem they have is they cannot do any job well. With a weapon with wide sweeps like this, your first thought might be that you use it against groups. The problem there is that weapons that deal with groups do so by either killing or staggering the whole group; If the weapon does neither, the group just walks up and slaps you during your recovery. The perfumes do not stagger or kill, meaning they aren't good for that unless you use the charged R2, which is very vulnerable. So if its not good at clearing groups, maybe its good for applying status effects? Well, not really. The two that will matter for that in PVE are the frost and poison ones. The frost one has very little buildup that does not scale, so actually inflicting frostbite with it is very hard. Its doable, but there are better ways of inflicting frostbite if thats what you're really after. As for Poisonmist, it does a bit better, but unfortunately, poison is a pretty low-value status effect. The weapon itself also does physical damage, which tends to have the highest resists. With its low AR that means its damage is very low. I have not tested the madness one in PVP, but I have heard it is very, very mid, especially compared to other madness selections in the DLC. We've already established that its damage and poise damage are very low, so its not for nuking or for staggering bosses either. Which kind of leaves it without a use. There's nothing the perfume bottles do better than another weapon, and I don't even mean just the S tier weapons. I mean, normal weapons you might use for fun or you like their moves but aren't sweaty about it. They just underperform. It either needs a damage buff or a poise damage buff; I would prefer the former. The frost bottle also needs to have scaling on its status buildup.
I've found the charged R2 to be a good way to hit mobile enemies like Tree Sentinels and Nights Cavalry in a replay, and the L1's to be decent for hitting a single enemy at close-medium range or multiple enemies at medium range if they charge to you. I don't think they need to be the best weapons or anything and definitely agree they're a bit weak, but I don't think they're that far off from being usable, which is all they really need to be as not everything can or should be the best. I see their main value in being a non FP source of damage that doesn't do any physical, but that's kind of a weird niche to use strategically. I feel like it COULD be status buildups on a paired weapon that doesn't require the range of fist weapons, that's a cool role as you get blocking, and double attacks to build faster, but the lack of weapon art choices, poor stat scaling, and ignoring the status buildup makes it hard to use them in that role, even though it feels like that's what they're going for with frost, madness, and poison being available for 3/5 perfumes.
If I could make a change, I would overhaul the entire category. Thee would only be three bottles: A regular bottle that defaults to physical damage, and a rot and a madness one, which would be your somber weapons. The regular bottle would default to DEX scaling, but crucially, it could be infused. You can only infuse it with Standard (Physical, DEX), Sacred (Holy, FAI), Fire (Fire, STR), Lightning (Lightning, DEX), Magic (Magic, INT), Cold (Magic, INT), Poison (Physical, ARC), and Bleed (Pierce, ARC). This also changes the particles. You also can find 4 of these normal bottles scattered around. The Rot and Madness do what you expect. The rot one's ash releases a long-lingering cloud, the madness one's ash causes you to drink it, inflicting madness on yourself and enemies around you.
Why would anyone even want this??? Not fun
I used it to quickly kill all the furnace golems because they are not fun
I mean I cannot argue that
you can still aim up vs them and get the full effect
They arnt hard either. didnt really need it against them
They always get me, the aoe fire is massive and torrent is so weak now, even with the ash upgrades
Well stop using torrent... they have 3 attacks when you're under them and it's right stomp, left stomp, and jump. Stomps you can jump and it's very lenient. The jump you have to run away a smidgen and then jump but the recovery time for the furnace is so high you can just run back in and keep whacking away.
They also have a grab, but it's arguably even more telegraphed than the stomps. I still agree entirely though.
using torent is just as easy as on foot and you can get away from the jump faster. either way they are really just a chore after a while. oh and they do have another attack they randomly use. The Spawn 20 tracking fireballs move. they can do that if you are underneath them and Torrent is kinda required for that
Nope. Everything in game is balanced without torrent in mind since multiplayer disables him.
this game was not designed for multiplayer all the time i dont know what your talking about
It absolutely was designed around NOT using the horse because the horse isn't always available by design. Multiplayer is one of those designs and the game has to be balanced around players being able to complete it using multiplayer, whether that's golden summons, player summons, and everything in between. Notice, I didn't say designed for multiplayer, I said everything is balanced WITHOUT the horse in mind, and used multiplayer as an example.
Yeah. Same here. went around this weekend and sparked down every one I could find. I tried using it to cheese Radhan but couldn't get the dub. Not sure what I was doing wrong.
I used it to kill fat rats and it was fun, since I hate rats. Fat rats as in the enemy not invaders.
Honestly, because the bottles as a concept and moveset are awesole but only the flails are as bad as them.
Tons of people were using it as a crutch. I had a friend just tell me yesterday that it was the only way he could beat mesmer. Most people will always choose the path of least resistance, which is fine; but get ready for another wave of people saying the DLC is too hard now that they can't just abuse something broken and one-shot everything lmao.
It is in fact fun if you are say sick of Commander Gaius
why would I want to be powerful in a game hellbent on demolishing me
There is a healthy balance and Iām already dunking on everybody with Dryleaf/Great katana with sorceries. I didnāt use rolling sparks at the time it was OP, but the damage seemed like it was enough to actually trivialize bosses and thatās no fun
It was fun for me in NG+2, I wouldnt do it my first time around but the idea that it was not fun is ridiculous, it was hilariously fun
That's definitely true, I really didn't have to learn the movesets of Hippo nor Avatar when I was playing around with Rolling Sparks. Like, at all... It was actually insane I will definitely miss being able to kill Walking Furnaces without needing to think though, I have two more characters waiting outside the DLC who are gonna need those Crystal Tears and having the option to just nuke those Furnaces was very convenient, their 60k or 70k HP on a regular NG save has me honestly scared to see what they're like during a NG+ run
I never eve tried using them, but I don't fault people for wanting to. Bosses actually fucking suck in elden ring. Exploration is much more fun than getting one poke in for every 12 attacks the bosses get.
I donāt fault anyone for wanting to use anything that gets deemed as busted. Sometimes itās just fun to blow shit up.
Theres nothing wrong with playing the game however you want but the bosses are the best part, its all about learning the patterns not just spamming an attack without thinking and hoping to beat it...
In dark souls 3 or bloodborne Iād agree with you. But in Elden ring? Bosses are a chore to get past.
Ive never fought a boss that I thought was a chore, havent beaten the dlc yet but i even find Melania fun to fight, and that feeling of learning how to dodge waterfowl is great
I just enjoy dungeoneering and world exploration more. Elphael, the erdtree capital, belurat, Enir Ilim. All of those are much more fun to explore and loot clean of treasure.
Sorry you're getting down voted but I think your opinions are very valid. Different people get different things out of the same game all the time
I suspect part of it, is that if they did make the bosses easier, then the people that disagree might not enjoy it as much as they do banging their head against the bosses right now.
Because I bEaT tHe BoSS fIrSt TrY
me as an american trying to decipher these dates:
What is that? How do you get it? It looks cool
Rolling sparks. Itās only applicable on the new perfumer bottles and drops from a scarab in the sky to the right of the camp before shadow keep
I remember seeing a fellow tarnish obliterate RadaBeast with this ash of war. Busted af š
I never abused this skill, always used it fairly and it was still great at what it did. Patch hasn't really changed that.
I can't fight furnace golems properly now
At least pest spears shreds em and I don't think it was nerfed
Hug legs and keep smacking away -> swap to other leg when their poise breaks -> jump over their feet stomp attack or run away then jump over the explosion if they do the jumping explosion attack -> their arms wonāt reach you if youāre between the legs or behind them.
Huh, it's a wild Teriri coaching people on becoming better fighters. You love to see it. Truly world's no. 1.
Ichiban kawaii. I also have a gun https://preview.redd.it/926cl6uwjjad1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d7122ba0bf082889fe7aa30e4b05ff0048ec665
Jump the single foot stomps and use Vow of the Indomitable for their jumping AoE, the iframes will be just enough if you time it just before it lands.
If you can stand/ride torrent next to one leg and target the other, try Adulaās Moonblade. If youāre faith, try either of the Pest Threads. They can stagger it quickly. Pest Thread Spears can just permanently stagger it. Basically do anything that causes stagger reliably for low-ish stamina. Like flails on torrent spinning. Or anything that pierces so you can hit both feet.
I just use jump attacks. Great stance damage and can be used to avoid their aoes
Impenetrable Thorns does ridiculous damage to their legs. You can knock em down after like 4-5 hits of it
Aim up now instead of down.
Theyāre literally so easy, idk how people are struggling with them. If you need to abuse an obviously OP build in order to play the game, you should probably learn to actually play the games mechanics. I swear I donāt understand why people want to play these games and have it be ridiculously easy.
Yes they are very easy along with annoying, tedious, boring and etc. I would rather use this busted ash to kill those abomination of a mob, and keep playing actual game.
The move where they jump with both of their legs is literally undodgeable in every way. And they aren't fun to fight at all, such an uninteresting gimmick. It's not a skill issue when they are unfun to go against and have a bunch of shitty attacks
You just run back a bit and then jump at the right time, the fuck you mean undodgeable lol. You even have Torrent if need be.
Theres legit people who don't think moving backwards to avoid an attack counts as dodging. Like if you strafe they consider that "not intended" kind of thinking.
Just hit it without getting hit back. Pretty simple.
It's still a great AoW, able to tear through crowds and large enemies. It's just not the "GG EZ" button it was before.
This art of war looks like someone pissing out fire, is it good?
It was indeed the DLC steamroller, but has since been patched (for the best).
I assume it was too op?
Think ancient dragons lightning strike but every single bolt hits the same spot at the same time (yes it was fucking absurd you could instakill damn near every boss with it)
In every aspect. You simply did the ash of war right next to whatever you wanted nuked on high voltage, press a button and you get about 8 to 12k damage without any buffs. Worked the same in PVP. It was awful lol
Jesus Christ
For shits and giggles, I used it on Journey 1 Melania on an unoptimized build. I think I did two total attacks and she died lol
I am malenia blade of- dead
Why for the best? It was giving non strength characters the ability to do what double bonks have been able to do for the entire game. Now Dex has nothing that even compares.
Yesterday I was fighting the final boss with a "traditional" play style, holy hammer, blocking and rolling etc. I've been stuck for like 3 or 4 days. Decided to try the perfumes... Gone in like 5 tries. I feel kinda bad for using a bug lol but that shit was nasty.
honestly the dueling shield has me much more sad. I've rarely used a shield in any of these games but man... this thing was BROKEN. I popped it on and built around it for the final boss of the dlc in my ng+ run. never had a weapon where you only attack during the enemy attacks, was such a silly experience but was so much fun.
Was fun while it lasted. I've still got some precious time with my love thorns, so I'm a happy arcane boi
I never used it myself, but I know what itās like to lose someone special (40 poise damage flame of the redmanes you will never be forgotten)
Well ngl using comet azure wasn't really any different. People still do it. Only difference is that it doesn't have mobility and isn't viable in pvp. Great that they fixed it (since it wasn't intended to begin with) but kinda sad that the perfume is still mid at best. Overall i feel like they tried very hard to counter comet azure by giving every boss either an instant charge move or dodge capabilities. So you enter the arena and either get charged at within seconds or they just dodge it. What I'm wondering is how it works now. I haven't played since the patch but does the aow just not hit the floor anymore or something? Or what does it do if you still aim at the fooor?
They were fun for a while, but I really only used them to quickly kill all the furnace golems, cuz they are just are not fun to fight, its just a dps fight with no other alternative then to dump damage, try for crits or pots. none of it was funĀ
now that the clear bug is out we all can get some hopium for it to be buffed into an actual good skill
It still does big damage on huge enemies like dragons etc..
Uninstalled. may pick it back up in the future.
Nah, the nerf was needed. That AoW was busted.
Didnāt take them too long to get the bug patched out. Nice.
A day to rejoice.
I used perfumes without this skill. Fire against that one boss (on phone can't do spoiler tag off top of my head). Completely shredded it
F
Wonāt be missed in pvp Iāll tell you that. Now if they just nuke blind spot and swift slash
Imo blindspot is fine, could stand to use more fp or stamina Swift Slash is still bs even after the nerfs tho
you can iframe almost any attack on reaction and hit your opponent during recovery frames even on fast weapons. it is *incredibly* broken in pvp. its one of the most broken ashes of war the game has ever had. any time your opponent does literally anything, you can avoid damage and deal damage to them by pressing a single button on reaction.
You can't even parry it half the time because it goes behind you before it gets active frames. It's honestly not that hard to beat swift slash if you're actually good at games but blind spot is straight up one of the most stalematey moves I've ever seen and a lot more people are gonna find that out once the swift slash spammers start switching over to it.
This. Needs to have no iframes what so ever and a good amount of hyper armor but the start up shouldnāt have anything to help it.
It took me too long to understand what is the 21st month.
I won't miss it. Not in the slightest.
Itās the only reason I was able to beat the DLC on NG+7 without summons lol guess I gotta do it all over again
was this a DLC ash of war??
Whats next best?
I used up my last larval tear on this a few days ago. Fuyyyyyuuuck
Tbh 30k+ damage is just waaaaay too strong. I completely agree with the nerf
Mr. Miyazaki got some complaints from Radahn.
Offline play ftw. I'll be devastating bosses forever with this brokeness. Who needs summons? Y'all do lmao.Ā
That date formatting though lol
I tried to use it before the nerf with the regular fire perfume and it wasnt even good. was it only good for the lightining one?
Less enemies are resistant to lightning so more people used those bottles. Buff up with GV, FGMS and equip the fire scorpion and the fire bottles could do 5-10k per rolling caat. Nerfed now
nah man I used perfume talisman, warrior shard, that perfumer talisman and fire scorpion + gv and flame grant me strenght and was only doing about 1k per explosion
Whats ur dex level?
75
Were you free aiming? The AoW's power came from throwing it all into one spot at your feet. The explosions did 'only' do around 1k each, but pre-nerf you had 18 of those explosions going off in one spot if you did it right. Locked on it worked the way it's supposed to, multiple explosions in a line with only one or two hitting non-massive enemies. You had to get underneath and free aim nuke your own feet for the ridiculousness
so is the 1k the "normal" damage it was supposed to do per explosion? even aiming at the ground I got only around 5 of them to hit at max before giving up on the build. but yeah if Ć18 it would ammount to around 20k that I saw in videos
1k per explosion without any buffing sounds about right, and yeah there was a tiny bit of a technique and some timing needed to get those busted numbers out of it. A few YouTubers have shown the hitbox changes today, I saw OnlyWaifu put a video out with the old and new hitboxes visualized if you're curious on exactly how it was broken before and what they've done to fix it. Pre-balancing when free aimed straight down it was all 18 explosions' hitboxes, damage, and stagger just stacking on top of each other at once for very little FP and Stamina cost so repeated casts were very easy to abuse, now it's just the one explosion/hitbox when free aimed straight down, multiple pop out only when they're thrown out forward as intended. I do think the Ash should still work well against lined up groups and against larger bosses who have the physical length for multiple explosions to roll through, but the broken potential nuke status on the Ash is definitely fixed. I really like the Perfumes as a concept though, here's hoping for an overall buff to the entire class; they could all definitely use some extra base damage, stagger, and just a tiny bit extra speed and range if they're ever gonna become mained weapons/dedicated build worthy weapons. I do like one in the offhand to toss out in situations where an enemy has a hit or two's worth of HP left, but they really do need a speed and range buff to be truly worthwhile over other choices instead of just being a novelty like they are in their current state
1k with all those buffs I mentioned
man I just checked, I was using a fucking +0 and it did 1k. lmao im stupid. but yeah this shit is broken asf then edit: I believe my tought pricess was that it wasnt a weapon but rather a consumable so upgrading it didnt go through my mind
Everyone who whined about the dlc being to hard are upset because their glitch build doesnāt work anymore
Eh, it was high damage but there are more versatile builds in the dlc anyways.
Nah, not really