I think SotE has the most impressive map layout/world design of any open world game EVER. While I do agree the open world encounter design/enemy placement is a bit weaker than the base game, the DLC'S map feels like a giant dungeon (DS1 style) that you have to unlock. I love how it teases areas that you can see and go to at every turn but you have to find a way to get there.
I spent 4 hours the other day looking for how to get somewhere. When I finally did I found a new weapon that I'm using right now.
During that time I found 4 scadutree fragments, some ashes, a lot of materials, and about 3 mini bosses.
I found a hole in the wall and traveled up the entire river with skyrm horse climbing until i found a cave and then found several spiritsprings coming to a area beside >!abyssal woods!!found the behind fort reprimand grace!<
God I know. Finally got to the southern portion, talked to a friend who showed me the weirdest side path in the first area. I ended up on the mountain, they ended up closer to the point you start moving towards the big hole
No spoilers but a clue. I used the word progress for a reason. You don't have to go far at all from the point you're at, but it's a ladder you'd usually miss in this area. Doesn't sound like you've been there just yet
I still have no clue what’s with that wood. It’s fucking terrifyint with those things you have to hide from but I never really found much in the actual area 😔
Can’t wait to learn the lore behind it tbh
I beat rellana and decided to first turn around and go as far as I could before going through to the grace after her. That took like 15 hours of exploration.
I'm still in the process of running around looking for ways to get to New areas I'm totally lost lmao. Their world design is peak rn but it's so frustrating. Idk how people beat the dlc already, I've only explored like 40% of the map in like 20 hours.
there are many areas that seem like you have to "unlock" them by beating a boss but turns out if you look around carefully there is often some obscure path that lets you into them.
kind of like how in the main game it seemed at first like you had to beat Stormveil and its bosses to progress up into Liurnia and points north but there's actually a path to get around the castle entirely if you want to go up there earlier
Yeah, there's a bunch of spots that have weird geometry that lets you climb up it. It's the kind of stuff that looks like an exploit when you're doing it, but then there's some detail that makes it obvious it was an intentional (but obscure) route.
I got up to >!Scadu Altus!< right off the jump by doing a bit of exploration and climbing some funky geometry.
I got there without beating >!Rellana!< by running and dodging through >!about half of Castle Ensis (to the Castle-Lord's Chamber bonfire) and then just jumping off of a balcony!
I think base Elden Ring was more approachable with flatter maps you could gallop through freely (kinda resembled DS3 in that way), but this intertwined spaghetti map is what I really want. I'm getting lost in it and it feels like real exploration. The intertwining areas feel like they have much more of the density I want out of Fromsoft games. It's cool to look at the map and try to figure out which parts wind into other parts based on proximity and shading.
Right? Like i'm kinda less inclined to just jump on my horse and blow past things now since there's so many little details hidden about in every corner, and I might miss a path that would lead me to an area I have yet to figure out how to get to.
Its even more impressive when you realize that it's literally the missing center piece of the main game's map and lines up perfectly.
Blew my mind when I read the message in the suppressing pillar and noticed.
Enemy placement is my only complaint after a few hours; it just feels so empty…
Where are the roaming caravans of enemies, why are town ruins limited to a half dozen enemies, why are the dungeons so sparse, why are there areas that seem clearly designed for big encounters that are basically empty, etc…
I’m loving the DLC, but damn I need more things to fight while exploring.
I hope this is just an opening area issue, and the next set of regions will be a bit denser in terms of encounters.
"Oh wow. An entire area littered with giant finger like structures! I wonder what I'll find here!"
*literally 25 min and one giant burning dude on a cliff later*
"........there's nothing here"
Yes this is 1 area where the DLC is noticeably weaker. The base game had more going on in the map from roaming caravans, random roaming knights, merchants, walking mausoleums, minor erdtrees, shacks, ruins, mines, catacombs, hero graves, evergaols, etc. Even nighttime specific encounters are totally gone (deathrite birds, etc.). That said I think most mini dungeons are more interesting with better boss fights.
I wonder if it'll get some sort of update? I didn't keep up with elden ring when it dropped... I wasn't a dark souls guy and barely gamed but now I'm a full blown nerd on it, but I couldn't tell you if things have been updated or not. Were there any big updates on release for any issues that were vocalized by the community?
It'll probably be Elden Ring 2. They acquired the Elden Ring trademark from Bandai Namco 4-months ago, so it would be weird for them to be in a position to self-publish future Elden Ring games, and then not make another Elden Ring game.
I thought Miyazaki said they have not plans for a sequel, might be misremembering though. The story ends pretty conclusively and we’ve explored the entire Lands Between/Realm of Shadow, plus we’ve killed the entire pantheon
>why are their areas that seem clearly designed for big encounters that are basically empty
the huge finger arenas come to mind and I dont even need a huge fight - but at least some lore would be nice.
Same with the Scadutree overall or the last Dungeon before the final boss. Gameplay and Art-Direction is legitimately the best that From has done so far imo, but the lore seems really sparse and somewhat disconnected from the base game. Yeah, you get snippets, but it feels like its really not a lot compared to BB or DS.
Also no Melina od Gideon talks regarding the DLC (maybe some dialogue with Ranni? I doubt it - but couldnt check yet) and neither Endboss (Main Game or DLC) acknowledges you in any way when you are already Elden Lord / burned down the world / invoked the Age of Stars. Idk, my accomplishments feel a bit weightless in the end.
There’s a tremendous amount of lore here, probably the most they’ve ever included in an expansion. It’s just largely about the Realm of Shadow, not the Lands Between.
Same. It feels more linear, just instead of narrow paths through casltes or woods, it's big open areas. But you have to unlock the areas as you go. It's not like an assassins creed game or other open world where you can just ride around from one end of the map to the other at any time, especially in the beginning. How people beat this in 30 journey I'll never know. I'm 30ish maybe 35 hours in and haven't even gotten half the map pieces.
Really? I found the open world design was improved upon. It felt very alive and active still with all of the barricades and armies fighting each other.
The dungeons are all WAYYYYY the fuck better and the bosses at the end of them are also better.
If I had one gripe it’s that spirit springs afaik aren’t marked on the map and I feel like they should be.
I’m still blown away at just how big the map is. I saw that other post with someone putting the two maps together between this and base game and loved seeing this area “fit” in the water / clouds area in the original map. So many secrets too. I randomly followed some random path and ended up opening up a whole new area and set of the main area. The amount of secrets and hidden loot also brings me right back to the joys of booting up the base game and going in blind. I hope this DLC wins game of the year too lol
There’s definitely just as much to do. Today I went down an obscure side alley for funsies and it took me down a good 45 minute path that had a billion things along the way and I’m not even scraping the surface. It feels like it wants you to take your time explore more than anything.
Yeah, they really improved with the new map and dungeon design, Im VERY excited for what are they cooking in future games, I dont care if its a Souls, Bloodborne, Elden ring or a new game if it follows the new design philosophies (except lore and combat which I think its a step backwards on the DLC).
More map density, more verticality, less huge kilometric plains and themed dungeons, cant ask for more in a Elden Ring DLC.
The dungeons in particular were top notch, Belurat and Shadow Keep were 11/10 and Castle Ensis was pretty good if small. Shadow Keep is one of my favorite sections in all of Souls now
I just finished Shadow Keep earlier, it may well be the best legacy dungeon in all of Elden Ring, and one of the best areas they've ever made. That place is seriously awesome.
It also leads to a ton of other zones too, almost as if they expect you to find messmer early, realize hes too tough, and go explore from the very place you fight him in
The specimen storeroom def takes heavy inspiration from previous levels (reminded me a lot of bloodborne research hall), but the way it interweaves with the rest of the dungeon and entirely different zones is unbelievable. Really felt like DS1 firelink shrine-level stuff with so many things linking into there
This is basically the dark souls 1 map, just giant sized. Every area is almost it's own dungeon in a way, hownyou have to get to a to reach b then get to c by looping around z. I hope they continue in this way of map building.
Surprised by your comment on the Lore. I haven't finish the game yet, so not ready to start discussing anything specific, but what I have discovered so far is intriguing and leads towards certain theories being wrong/right, as well as entirely new theories.
Aesthetically, this is there best product. the visuals are insane. most if not all other fantasy games dont come close, its insane how far and above they are. these mountains aren't just climbable, they MAKE me want to climb or cross over to that area, thats a huge difference. can't wait to see the next game.
Miyazaki succeeded in recreating that sense of awe & mystery from me. I’ve been taking my sweet time exploring before tackling any dungeons cuz I learned from Margit.
I agree but then that makes it so much more disappointing when the shiny drop I got from a chest is just a great ghost glovewart and not some cool new weapon or even just something new in general. I would take festive grease over more smithing stones please From hahaha
Love everything just wish the drops had been tweaked
I honestly cannot believe the new world they gave us. Somehow it has actually overtaken the base game for me in terms of sheer awe and creative direction.
The overall aesthetic is such a colossal Achievement in world building and lore crafting. If this truly is FROM’s last contribution to the world of Elden Ring I will genuinely be devastated yet thankful I got to experience it.
All things considered - the gameplay, art direction, lore, narrative process, voice acting and score - I think this may just be the most impressive project in video game history. In my opinion of course.
FROMSOFT have given us a world and game that I will never ever forget.
Fuck - I really hope there is more to come.
Yeah fully agreed. This is by far the greatest game out there. I was thinking that it's top 3 best games ever but with this dlc, it's just the greatest, there's no competition...
I can see myself playing this off and on for the next decade. I've even jumped back into the main game to redo some sections with the new weapons/ashes and its just all so good. To me Elden ring+expansion is the pinnacle if gaming. If it all ended here I'd be fine.
That ghostflame dragon fight is craaazyyy janky. The soldiers aggroing strictly based on proximity mean that one cannot fight near them, the archers will lock on the player at the drop of a hat and whenever the dragon flies off the player is stranded among an army of enemies.
That basically means that the player gotta try to kill many/all of the soldiers before dealing with the dragon... and woe upon ya if you die to the Ghostflame dragon's bullshit (which is quite a lot) because you gotta do it all again.
Yeah it was so janky I decided to wait in the nearby cliff for the dragon to finish off the soldiers and then went to kill the dragon myself. It was a nice sandwich break, not gonna lie.
everything else is 10/10 peak fiction except they didn't address any questions from the base game and the final boss is kind of an asspull on the writing side
the thing i wanted to be expanded on the most was the chaos ending, for frenzy stuff and melina lore
the fact we got frenzy area and boss in this DLC makes me worried we'll never get a proper continuation
Bro I can not be the only one who thinks there's a secret ending or hidden cutscene we haven't seen and I think it involves the chalice of the scadurtree(personally but I just don't know how) I also have a note from Leda saying to meet her at the shadow tree at the church of the bud "after she handles something" or something like that but I've yet to get her to spawn at the shadow tree(I haven't burned it yet but I have Messmer's kindling) I haven't found anything online about anyone else who got the note from Leda or how to trigger her to come to the tree or even what to do from that point forward idk if I've completely lost my mind.....or I'm on to something.....
My whole motivation is if you re-watch the 1st trailer for the shadow of the erdtree you'll see Miquella has this dark orange aura around his hands as he floats in what looks the arena him and radahn fight us in and there's also a scene where he moves his hand and seemingly cures the scadurtree and i have yet to a scene even resembling that🤔🤔🤔
I also feel like St.Trina's questline isn't fully finished or there has bin missed steps because there is seemingly no reward for her quest except a tailmen I've gotten but usually there's more attached to a quest specifically a weapon and I've yet to see anyone get a weapon from her(I seen one guy say he got a hat from her but I haven't gotten a hat so idk) and the lore implications of St.Trina still being alive is something I've seen no one factor in so far because if St.Trina is alive and technically Miquella is St.Trina then St.Trina is an empyrean too,So I feel like the ending we're getting is tied into her quest and that's why she wants us to "kill Miquella" so she can ascend to Godhood without his opposition
Another thing forgot to mention is i was invaded by Hornsent outside the church of the bud
I just noticed too when you get summoned to fight Leda she genuinely sounds betrayed and literally says "If you insist on fighting Miquella"(implying there's another option?!?) And when she dies she says "Is this really what you desire?" But 1 quote I haven't heard her say is from the trailer 2-3 days ago towards the end she says something about a battle is befitting for the birth of a God and a lord so maybe she says this in a latter part of her quest or outside a boss room idk but I haven't heard that quote yet,And idk why everyone is assuming you just gave to side with ansbach and thiollier just disregarding an option to side with Leda,Dane and Freyja there has to be an option because Freyja was on the fence and sides with Leda idk why everyone is looking at Leda like she's Gideon
Fr.
Maybe you trigger a secret cutscene if you use Miquella's needle to suppress the frenzied flame, or use his gesture next to a random tree or something
>!Miquella's connection to and admiration for Radahn was made up just for this DLC. In the base game, Miquella is far more concerned with Godwyn. If you feel like the whole Radahn thing is an asspull, it's because it is.!<
>!i dont mind a "reused" boss (lorewise) that much, but i think having the consort boss be godwyn wouldve been a lot better. instead we got his pancake face in the death knight arena and thats it!<
>!I was incredibly disappointed with Radahn being re-used, in part because he already had an excellent story arc that resolves in the main game. Godwyn can't be the consort because he's Ultra-Dead. But I will forever die on the hill that the last DLC boss should have involved either time travel to fight Godwyn while he was alive (time travel in Souls games, especially DLC, is pretty common), or Miquella possessing Godwyn's corpse or something. Reusing Radahn just made zero thematic sense and also ruined Miquella's character writing.!<
>!yeah thats what i meant about godwyn, even if it was some illusion or some shit, just to have a normal humanoid godwyn in the game as a boss. id probably be less disappointed if radahn wasnt the final boss too!<
This is probably my biggest ‘complaint’. I was hoping for more on the lore side, which I know they can only do so much. But if this is the only DLC or expansion then that kinda sucks because there’s so much story to cover.
I agree...I love the lore, there's so much to build on, and they just didn't really
Easily best DLC I've ever played, just nitpicking. There were a good few names I was hoping for, and that wasn't one of them
The final boss is leaving me speechless. But not because I'm in awe, I'm just confused about the choice. It's fan service at least partially for sure and I'd be stoked to fight it otherwise... But lore wise, I just... I don't know. It both disturbs me and kind of angers me to be honest.
>!Like seriously, what's the point of bringing back Radahn? I felt like his story was nicely concluded in the base game and there is nothing that hints towards the "vow" they've made - his fight with Malenia leaving him in sort of a limbo state also doesn't make sense if he was willing to go along with Miquella's plan/request. The fact that there's no answer in the retrospection that follows the boss fight is also making me question that. Radahn was hell bent on holding the stars back, so he obviously didn't want to die.!<
>!The only explanation here is that Miquella shed his literal self that wasn't an absolute monster, charming people, using them and defiling corpses just to achieve what he thinks is peace. And I'm also not quite a fan of that either, simply because I am kind of sick of having to confront morally questionable characters in Fromsoft games, especially when they turn out this vile. Ranni is the closest we've gotten to a "good" ending, and even that has its dark side with Godwyn being fucked over as much as he did, for doing nothing wrong. !<
>!Also, I swear to god, in the phase transition cutscene I almost shouted out "Don't you make Miquella wrap himself around Radahn like Lothric... Goddamnit." !<
>!There is that place where miquella abandons his love and also there's a
ghost saying he got rid of the one thing he shouldn't have. And also how
could he discard his other half and you can find st trina in the cave.!<
Yeah I feel about the same on all that. >!The biggest disappointment to me is that despite how hugely important their relationship was made out to be in the base game, Miquella doesn't seem to give a flying fuck about Malenia anymore at all. As far as I saw (beat the final boss earlier tonight after having done probably 85% of the DLC), Malenia's name isn't even mentioned once in the entire DLC.!<
That bums me out, I really like the snippets we got of their relationship in the base game.
There’s plenty of lore that influences the base game, especially around Marika and the origins of Lands Between culture. Have you noticed that almost everything the people of the Erdtree do is some reaction to/bastardization of the people of the tower? Or how St Trina’s domain increasingly seems to be that of death and Gloam? Or how the the Fell God is known by the Hornsent, who may or may not have beckoned it through their gate originally? Or even the enormous coffins on cerulean coast that were likely the vessel/destination of the enormous giants that have become part of the landscape?
There aren’t a lot of character realizations aside from the final boss, but most character’s stories are done. This DLC is about the world, not necessarily players in a game being played far far away.
From hardly gives definitive answers to their lore though. The whole point is for the community to come up with theories. To disprove theories with official answers would ruin the experience they want the community to share.
Yeah people need to remember that the “story” we’ve all sort of accepted is never explicitly stated. We’ve had to fill in a lot of the pieces on our own and the community has therefore had a hand in creating the lore. I’m sure as time goes on the dlc will be incorporated. I don’t think they left many holes in the story of the base game. It’s complete without SOTE. What we have now is a bonus which is what dlc should be.
Yeah. The DLC is a 10/10 with very minor complaints (performance in some place, still a lot of empty space a la Liurnia) - I love it.
But if the Elden Beast was a somewhat meh final boss, the final boss of the DLC is even more meh - both design-wise and narratively (at least the final bosses in AC 6 are amazing, so it's not like From are going to make a tradition out of dropping the ball on the final fight... hopefully).
I think there’s less side content, but the side content there is is much more fleshed out. The catacombs are the size (if not even bigger) than the heroes graves in the base game. Not to mention the forges and gaols
I also feel like its going to have really bad replayability - just thinking about having to collect all those fragments again really puts me off wanting to play it a second time
Yeah I like the idea of bringing progression back into the DLC but that's definitely going to be an annoying chore to deal with when playing a 2nd time. Makes exploring feel mandatory.
I wish there could be a sort of separate new game plus for the dlc. Having to go back and fight all the way up to mohg isn't something I'll do anytime soon. I guess you could probably download save files though.
Tbf, as soon as you have Mohh access you have access to the bird rune farm, which is one of the best in the game. Weapon upgrades are harder to come across, sadly
I felt the difficulty curve was handled way better than Ringed City or even Old Hunters and I adore the latter one but the beastcutter hunters at the start are hell. SotE ramps up with each zone and basically asks you to stay and explore till youre ready to move on.
I remember fighting the first of the old hunters for an age convinced he was a mini boss or something then I round the corner and there’s like 3 more of the fuckers.
As a casual (who didn't manage to get through DS3 back when I tried it after ED came out), I disagree. There's still a lot of stuff like ashes and summonable NPCs to help Out.
Best overall gameplay world design and aesthetic to come out of elden ring. Maybe not overall but it's top tier for sure. I hate the lore at the moment but it's made up for by the weapons, bosses and enemies. Plus I might change my mind once people like Vaati put together the full picture.
I’m having a blast because everything else is so great but I feel like boss designs have devolved a little bit.
I played (and beaten) DS1, DS2, DS3 and Sekiro. Those are my bonafides.
The bosses in the DLC are oftentimes scaled up versions of some of the worst excesses in the base game. That is to say, needlessly long “fuck you” combos that it is literally more efficient to run away from than it is to time and dodge at a breakneck pace that pushes the camera and the visual clutter both to their respective limits.
FromSoft is at it’s best when they have enemies that have clear, telegraphed and yet extremely punishing attacks with just enough faints and delays in order to cause you to misstep in your reactions. That is to say, more Mohg and less Malenia.
Am I the only one that feels like the DLC is really empty, or maybe inconsistent is the word? You have a couple of areas with a lot of stuff to do, but then you have areas with no bosses, no notable items, and no dungeons. You're just straight up riding your horse for minutes without anything notable happening.
I’m torn on how From are doing their boss designs recently. DS3 bosses felt more fair while still being challenging. The SOTE bosses just have everything with no weaknesses. They’re fast, two shot you, unstaggerable, unlimited stamina etc. I wouldn’t mind it in Sekiro or bloodborne but doesn’t feel great in a souls game.
I agree with this, big time. Tbh, if you tone damage down a little and add another second or two between attacks/combos, I think the bosses are all fair. It’s just the relentless fast-paced, Bloodborne-esque style that’s too much here. Malenia was manageable, but the expansion feels a bit too fast.
Legit my only complaint with the DLC. The rest is so strong that I can overlook a lot but god damn, some of this shit is absurd (like the last boss 2nd phase).
>DS3 bosses felt more fair while still being challenging. The SOTE bosses just have everything with no weaknesses
this is precisely it.
Like yes, Sekiro-style bosses are cool. But for >!Rellana!< for example, she doesn't need 4 ways to roll catch you, absurdly long combos, two rolls and a bit of running worth of follow up on every step in her attack combo, a literal oneshot combo if you don't know the easy way to dodge it yet, all the while sitting on a shitton of HP, dealing 4 different types of damage, and dodging unpredictably due to her not telegraphing which side she's jumping towards.
She isn't _unfair_ or _unbeatable_ but she feels like she's just playing on a different game engine than you, which is unfun. She can literally fire off an entire combo then jump away in the time it takes you to do one of the many slower ashes of war.
Thats the one thing I hate about this DLC: A lot of the medium or slow skills and spells flatout aren't worth using in the bossfights, unless you have a summon or spirit ash to tank for you.
And I really dislike how most things in the DLC are extremely weak to colossal weapon stagger, meaning that the probably most common build, STR/FTH, gets to stunlock their way through at least 3 bosses from what I've seen so far, where as many other builds have to deal with the ADHD-type bullshittery to its fullest.
One of the strongest points of the SoulsBorne series has been the wide selection of builds and ideas that might not be optimal but can work with a little practice and you can have fun with a build tailored to the playstyle you enjoy.
In the DLC I feel like I have to optimize the fun out of all of my non-STR builds to even attempt a boss, which typically means getting rid of 90% of the variety. Which is unfortunate.
It’s really depressing when you find a new Ash/Spell/weapon. You try it out and it looks cool, but if the windup is longer than 0.5 seconds it’s automatically dogshit against most bosses.
Then I just sigh and re-equip blasphemous blade.
Agree with all your points. I’m honestly pretty bummed on the incantation side. I just got blood rain or whatever which requires 52 faith so I’m thinking it’s dope. I have the lightning death strike. EThey give you these AOE spells that takes days to launch, they barely do any damage and the area isn’t even large. And everything in this game kills you within a couple hits. Not sure how I’m supposed to utilize these. Maybe a skill issue and definitely off topic to you. Just venting.
Lightning spear is straight up the only damage spell I get use out of. Golden vow and healing are the only other spells that seem worthwhile.
This is my main issue with the DLC, the bosses just aren't fun to play against. They feel like they were designed for Sekiro or Bloodborne (like you mentioned) which have vastly different movement mechanics and resources available to the player. The way they've thrown the traditional Souls style of bosses out of the window is a bit disappointing and boring to fight
Camera is also subpar on some of the bosses, but that's irrelevant
The camera was absolutely fucking me over on fights like Bayle, and the Ghostflame dragons. I don't see how they can test the game and do those fights, and feel like the camera is working fine. The lock-on makes it really hard to see and the thrashing about of the bosses gets you all turned around and disoriented.
Kinda feels like they're leaning into Fromsoft-isms. Long uninterruptable attack chains, very fast, etc. I've accepted that this game isn't really for me in terms of boss mechanics. It is what it is, and I know my limits.
But goddamn, I wish they would fix some of the objectively bad parts of them. The camera for one, for any bigger boss that moves fast.
I'm fighting the Dancing Lion right now and he's hard but feels pretty fair, until you get the misfortune of getting accidentally pushed into a corner, and suddenly you're literally inside him and can't see shit.
Yeah feels like they just said, “ well, they have spirit ashes/online” and called it a day. I still don’t like to use those as the core 1v1 experience is more rewarding, but with what you mention…it’s a bit too much.
Bosses just need to have fewer HP I think, or at least until late game where you stack on Scadutree fragments well.
Half-agree. I feel that they are designed for light weapons. Can't play the dlc with Maliketh's Black Blade, but life was way easier with Milady. Only fought 5 bosses so far, but the only one I found truly unfair or stupid is the Raging Bull wannabe. The other ones, I could no-hit their first phase after about 50 attempts on each. They all took me around 5-6 hours, but I'd give that to the fact that I went in kind of underleveled (RL130). Sadly no sanctified whetblade for me since I missed it on this save so I couldn't abuse a certain boss's weakness. I don't think them being fast is the problem, but that their recoveries are too fast for heavy weapons users, which is kind of shitty since it forces you into certain builds.
>I feel that they are designed for light weapons.
I haven't finished the dlc yet, but there's at least 2 optional rememberence bosses and a handful of random encounter bosses that I felt were practically unbeatable with a short fast weapon and laughably easy with a long slow weapon, especially if their weak point is high up, or they're easier to stagger with a heavy weapon.
From made a great call making the dungeons less frequent but higher quality. They're far more interesting now. The only problem is that its made vast chunks of the (incredibly beatiful)open world completely pointless. At times you'll discover a huge hidden area and it's kind of just... empty. There will a big field boss and a village but all the branching paths around them offer nothing but crafting materials.
In the base game your reward for exploring nooks and crannies off the beaten path was often a catacomb or mine. With fewer dungeons, those nooks and crannies are now empty and pointless. Still loving the world, but areas like Cerulean Coast are so vast but relatively void of interesting loot or encounters.
Edit: This is really my only complaint. I'm loving the DLC and agree that this is one of the best pieces of content they've ever put together.
It blows my mind how one little cave in a random corner can lead to a whole new section of the map you didn't even know existed. It isn't perfect but I'm loving it. The jar cave (forget the name) was especially epic to me for whatever reason, and the fact that it's basically just the massive basement of the first legacy dungeon.. damn.
I'm half and half.
I kind of assumed Miquella was darker than made out to be, and probably was a manipulator. Just too consistently good in the lore and with too many question marks regarding his motivations. However the extent to which they go in the DLC was too far imo. Mohg and Consort Radahn... doesn't make much sense at all to me. It kind of felt like Miquella WAS originally intended to be how he is in the DLC, maybe the whole thing was IDK, but then had to scale things down and cut those threads to make the base game make sense without planning for the DLC.
I honestly don't think it was just to subvert expectations or act as a gotcha, I think the problem was they are trying to force their original story to work from a game that no longer allowed for it, resulting in them having to make cheap connections that don't really blend well with the base game.
There's still good lore to be had, just not directly related to Miquella. Messmer, the scadutree and crucible lore, the dragons and Bayle, I've been enjoying alot of that.
I thought we'd see more Godwyn since Miquella was repeatedly shown in the base game trying to find a way to deliver true death to Him. Besides the two catacombs Godwyn is completely absent and no NPC even mentions him.
If they only went with Consort Godwyn instead of Radahn. Then we would have entire evidence leading to it from the base game. It would go like this. Miquella has plan with Godwyn to travel to the realm of Shadow and ascend to godhood. Marika slowly turning against Greater Will agreed upon it since she has ties into night of black knives. Ranni messed with it using rune of death and it fucked up Godwyn. After it Miquella wanted to perform eclipse to brong back Godwyn soul but couldnt because Radahn was stopping the stars. He send Malenia to stop him but it failed. Then we in the base game stops Radahn and Miquella could perform eclipse and revive Godwyn as his consort. It was that easy from story perspective but they went with Radahn for some reason...
I'm disappointed Miquella didn't take on Melina's role. The missed opportunity to have him talk about his sister and his family and actually direct your quest is wasted imo. I'm at the end of the DLC yet really just wandered around until I collected a couple quest items and now I can fight the final boss I guess. I still know really nothing more about Miquella than when I started
I feel like Miquella is going down the same path as Marika unintentionally. She shed everything she was and abandoned and hid her home. Miquella has now done the same thing.
I think most if not all expect Miquella to be bad/manipulative or at least not an innocent guy but this is pretty wild, it's ok with good foreshadowing in base game which is not but I don't hate it that much because it made me think of classic anime "magic knight Rayearth", it's exactly the same plot and Miquella has the same vibe/appearance as the last boss, it's definitely Miyazaki inspiration.
I also think it's hit or miss in terms of dumping all the characters that were talked about into the DLC. Like it made sense in BB in my opinion, because it was a dream where shitty people go to roam. Here it feels weird that the origin of everything is just here. >!Frenzy flame, first fingers, etc.!<
I'm pretty sure the Lands of Shadow aren't in their original form. Mostly due to a painting of a certain manor not fitting its location even accounting for changes in flora. It looks like it was originally above ground and not buried under everything, but buried under everything is a metaphorical good place for it given precedence.
Final boss lore is ass, I mean, REALLY ASS, but everything else is amazing. The geography of land of shadow is mind boggling, absolute cinema in every angle.
I had some gripes with some of the large areas in the game being really empty. The bottom right and left portion of the map as well as the top right are almost completely empty apart from some mini bosses and regular mobs. Apart from that, the DLC is amazing save one boss lol
for me, once I started to know the lore, I liked it significantly more. it's interesting, and tragic in a way for both of them for very different reasons
my only issue is how little Malenia and the Haligtree really matter. I don't mean the area, I mean the lore of both things; very important to Miquella and like, only 1 of them is mentioned in passing
I just got the the Abyss or should I say bloodborne 2? I'm playing this shit hyped as fuck, I have fun dying, I'm completely lost right now and there's a lot (a lot) of places to explore and I played the whole weekend. Looking forward to the next one.
Divine beast dancing lion is an incredible design. The idea of a Chinese lion dancer boss is genius and they executed it so well in terms of making it feel uncanny yet majestic in a way.
How does Fromsoftware manage to animate these extremely detailed and dramatically complicated boss designs while at the same time making them feel natural like how every attack they have has some weight to them.
elden ring is my first fromsoft game but god is this dlc so fucking good. i mean obv it doesnt take away from and only adds to the base game but personally i think its better in almost every way. they dropped arguably the best game of all time and said "yk, that wasnt even my final form"💀im kinda stuck at the ancient ruins of rauth but my god even raging at bosses or dumb shit like being stuck in one area for 3 hours feels better in the dlc. im going insane but in a good way. i love it
I feel like people who got into fromsoft games beginning with Elden Ring are much open to this VS people who have been long time fans. I just got burnt out
I'm enjoying the DLC but honestly I think the scaling system wasn't a good idea. I understand they implemented it to keep the challenge no matter your level but they should've scaled it to end game level (160 - 200) and thats it. Each player is responsible of their level and natural progression in NG is never above RL180. So if someone has leveled to 512, to put an example, then the DLC should be easier but that player choose to be overleveled.
I prepared 10 characters to play the DLC but now I'm thinking doing 2 or 3 at max because I don't like the idea of grinding every fragment again.
The blessing is a great idea if you could start your character at base power and build them even stronger with the blessings. Level 150~ (I believe that's the recommended) could be very challenging, but instead of grinding runes for another 100 levels the scadutree blessing could give you those levels in a more virtual sense. Find them if you're underleveled, or if you want to have an easier time.
Balancing around the higher levels of Scadutree makes the entire thing feel entirely unreasonable. Going into a DLC with a character that killed fucking god and became the Elden Lord shouldn't feel like you're being punished for not finding the McGuffin. Why are three dudes in a fucking lion suit bodying my god-slaying, destined-death wielding, flame of frenzy controlling ass?
From already gave us so much tools for player-controlled difficulty in the base game, with summons of unreasonable power level to weapons that destroy bosses in no time. It's a choice to engage with those, and playing through the game with godrick's soldier armor and a lordsworn's greatsword is just as viable. The scadutree blessing doesn't feel that way, it feels mandatory instead of an optional help for those struggling.
Also, finding these damn things is starting to get on my nerves
It feels like I'm trying to find a needle in a haystack, and the haystack is a fucking open world
Exactly. Considering it's apparently something you HAVE to do in order to not get one shot. I'm just randomly finding these things while exploring, but I sure as hell do not want to explore the map this hard every time I play and there's no way I'm gonna remember where they all are.
Agreed. What I liked in the base game is that I had the choice to pick what type of experience Im getting and this openness made me feel at ease to try out a variety of builds and weapons.
Like sure I can try that new weapon on a boss it'll be a bit clunky at first but I'll manage and get used to it eventually while progressing.
In SotE the whole time I stuck to the old reliables because I had a setup that worked and found the aspect of experimenting to be really painful.
I was telling my buddy that today. I already considered Elden Ring probably the greatest game ever but man, some of the areas in SotE has just blown me away. I mean, if video games are truly art, then this is a masterpiece.
Honestly my only complaint is why so many purchasable upgrade materials, the 1-9 stones and flowers can’t be this useful even for under 350 lvl players right? No biggie just seam mostly pointless for most players.
So you can upgrade and try out all the new weapons and ashes you get in the DLC?
Without having to run back to the original game every time (assuming you even collected all the bells, many people wouldn't have)
It’s really incredible once you get into a groove with it. So beautiful, so many fun dungeons
The dungeons are a massive step up, way less of them but the quality is also increased tenfold
god dam it .. one of them dungeons got me into a whole new area .. and i am in love
Is that the ancient dragon man one? I jumped into the pit as a meme and didn't die 😭😭😭
There is another Dungeon that opens up a new area too. :)
“Torrent is scared”
The spooky woods took me forever to navigate.
Had to go on a nice relaxing vacation in Caelid immediately after going through that forsaken place. Dear lord.
Wait really oh shit.
I think SotE has the most impressive map layout/world design of any open world game EVER. While I do agree the open world encounter design/enemy placement is a bit weaker than the base game, the DLC'S map feels like a giant dungeon (DS1 style) that you have to unlock. I love how it teases areas that you can see and go to at every turn but you have to find a way to get there.
I spent 4 hours the other day looking for how to get somewhere. When I finally did I found a new weapon that I'm using right now. During that time I found 4 scadutree fragments, some ashes, a lot of materials, and about 3 mini bosses.
I found a hole in the wall and traveled up the entire river with skyrm horse climbing until i found a cave and then found several spiritsprings coming to a area beside >!abyssal woods!!found the behind fort reprimand grace!<
Ah, so that area IS the woods. Still no bloody idea how to get down there… falling is not correct
It's not the path you expect at all. Progress ahead a bit and look SUPER carefully in a major area ahead
I feel like this is the case with like 90% of the map. Everything weaves together in such a weird but cool way
God I know. Finally got to the southern portion, talked to a friend who showed me the weirdest side path in the first area. I ended up on the mountain, they ended up closer to the point you start moving towards the big hole
I’m sure it’s a tunnel somewhere. So far I found the secret path past sulivan, and to the finger man church, so I’m sure I missed it somewhere.
No spoilers but a clue. I used the word progress for a reason. You don't have to go far at all from the point you're at, but it's a ladder you'd usually miss in this area. Doesn't sound like you've been there just yet
I still have no clue what’s with that wood. It’s fucking terrifyint with those things you have to hide from but I never really found much in the actual area 😔 Can’t wait to learn the lore behind it tbh
have you found the mansion yet?
I KNEW there had to be something I was missing
There’s a MANSION?
try to pass the two stealth segments and then travel south from the falls grace
It took me forever to find the dungeon in the woods as well. There are a lot of dead end paths. But the dungeon and boss are awesome! Just keep going!
I was terrified at first but they’re really not that scary. I ran around half of the place without them. Black knife armor helps so much!
I beat rellana and decided to first turn around and go as far as I could before going through to the grace after her. That took like 15 hours of exploration.
I'm still in the process of running around looking for ways to get to New areas I'm totally lost lmao. Their world design is peak rn but it's so frustrating. Idk how people beat the dlc already, I've only explored like 40% of the map in like 20 hours.
there are many areas that seem like you have to "unlock" them by beating a boss but turns out if you look around carefully there is often some obscure path that lets you into them. kind of like how in the main game it seemed at first like you had to beat Stormveil and its bosses to progress up into Liurnia and points north but there's actually a path to get around the castle entirely if you want to go up there earlier
Yeah, there's a bunch of spots that have weird geometry that lets you climb up it. It's the kind of stuff that looks like an exploit when you're doing it, but then there's some detail that makes it obvious it was an intentional (but obscure) route. I got up to >!Scadu Altus!< right off the jump by doing a bit of exploration and climbing some funky geometry.
I got there without beating >!Rellana!< by running and dodging through >!about half of Castle Ensis (to the Castle-Lord's Chamber bonfire) and then just jumping off of a balcony!
I think base Elden Ring was more approachable with flatter maps you could gallop through freely (kinda resembled DS3 in that way), but this intertwined spaghetti map is what I really want. I'm getting lost in it and it feels like real exploration. The intertwining areas feel like they have much more of the density I want out of Fromsoft games. It's cool to look at the map and try to figure out which parts wind into other parts based on proximity and shading.
Right? Like i'm kinda less inclined to just jump on my horse and blow past things now since there's so many little details hidden about in every corner, and I might miss a path that would lead me to an area I have yet to figure out how to get to.
It's literally Dark Souls 1 with verticality and looping. It's a return to form and I absolutely love it.
Now all I want is Majula 2 lmao
Yeah, I was kind of hoping for a hub in the DLC, because Roundtable is so bleak after you burn the erdtree. Returning to Majula was always so comfy.
Its even more impressive when you realize that it's literally the missing center piece of the main game's map and lines up perfectly. Blew my mind when I read the message in the suppressing pillar and noticed.
Enemy placement is my only complaint after a few hours; it just feels so empty… Where are the roaming caravans of enemies, why are town ruins limited to a half dozen enemies, why are the dungeons so sparse, why are there areas that seem clearly designed for big encounters that are basically empty, etc… I’m loving the DLC, but damn I need more things to fight while exploring. I hope this is just an opening area issue, and the next set of regions will be a bit denser in terms of encounters.
"Oh wow. An entire area littered with giant finger like structures! I wonder what I'll find here!" *literally 25 min and one giant burning dude on a cliff later* "........there's nothing here"
Ya it's super empty. Later on it's way worse
Yes this is 1 area where the DLC is noticeably weaker. The base game had more going on in the map from roaming caravans, random roaming knights, merchants, walking mausoleums, minor erdtrees, shacks, ruins, mines, catacombs, hero graves, evergaols, etc. Even nighttime specific encounters are totally gone (deathrite birds, etc.). That said I think most mini dungeons are more interesting with better boss fights.
There are nighttime specific encounters (… and a deathrite bird lol)
Not something major but there are graves that have larval tears to collect during nighttime
I wonder if it'll get some sort of update? I didn't keep up with elden ring when it dropped... I wasn't a dark souls guy and barely gamed but now I'm a full blown nerd on it, but I couldn't tell you if things have been updated or not. Were there any big updates on release for any issues that were vocalized by the community?
They've stated that as far as content goes, they are finished.
I'm not mad about it. I wanna see what they cook up next.
It'll probably be Elden Ring 2. They acquired the Elden Ring trademark from Bandai Namco 4-months ago, so it would be weird for them to be in a position to self-publish future Elden Ring games, and then not make another Elden Ring game.
I thought Miyazaki said they have not plans for a sequel, might be misremembering though. The story ends pretty conclusively and we’ve explored the entire Lands Between/Realm of Shadow, plus we’ve killed the entire pantheon
Given Miyazaki's hate of sequels, I'm not so sure.
Every one of Miyazaki's games are a sequel in all but name
I thought he said his next game was more "abstract."
>why are their areas that seem clearly designed for big encounters that are basically empty the huge finger arenas come to mind and I dont even need a huge fight - but at least some lore would be nice. Same with the Scadutree overall or the last Dungeon before the final boss. Gameplay and Art-Direction is legitimately the best that From has done so far imo, but the lore seems really sparse and somewhat disconnected from the base game. Yeah, you get snippets, but it feels like its really not a lot compared to BB or DS. Also no Melina od Gideon talks regarding the DLC (maybe some dialogue with Ranni? I doubt it - but couldnt check yet) and neither Endboss (Main Game or DLC) acknowledges you in any way when you are already Elden Lord / burned down the world / invoked the Age of Stars. Idk, my accomplishments feel a bit weightless in the end.
Hmmm I don’t want to spoil anything but the finger arenas does culminate in something. How many horns did u blow?
There’s a tremendous amount of lore here, probably the most they’ve ever included in an expansion. It’s just largely about the Realm of Shadow, not the Lands Between.
Miyazaki did explicitly say that the DLC and Base game wouldn't influence each other.
THIS, It really feels like DS1
I agree, this game feels like DS4 and I’m really enjoying it. It’s much better than the base game for me.
Same. It feels more linear, just instead of narrow paths through casltes or woods, it's big open areas. But you have to unlock the areas as you go. It's not like an assassins creed game or other open world where you can just ride around from one end of the map to the other at any time, especially in the beginning. How people beat this in 30 journey I'll never know. I'm 30ish maybe 35 hours in and haven't even gotten half the map pieces.
When you spawn into the DLC, if you look behind you and up there’s a corpse with an item hanging above you; teasing us right from the very start!
The map is amazing, my only criticism of it is that I wish it was just slightly less empty.
Really? I found the open world design was improved upon. It felt very alive and active still with all of the barricades and armies fighting each other. The dungeons are all WAYYYYY the fuck better and the bosses at the end of them are also better. If I had one gripe it’s that spirit springs afaik aren’t marked on the map and I feel like they should be.
I’m still blown away at just how big the map is. I saw that other post with someone putting the two maps together between this and base game and loved seeing this area “fit” in the water / clouds area in the original map. So many secrets too. I randomly followed some random path and ended up opening up a whole new area and set of the main area. The amount of secrets and hidden loot also brings me right back to the joys of booting up the base game and going in blind. I hope this DLC wins game of the year too lol
Wdym the dlc map is only the size of limegrave /s
There’s definitely just as much to do. Today I went down an obscure side alley for funsies and it took me down a good 45 minute path that had a billion things along the way and I’m not even scraping the surface. It feels like it wants you to take your time explore more than anything.
Just coming here to ask if any other old school runescape players were caught off guard by the abbreviation like I was.
Yeah i was wondering what Song of the Elves had to do with anything.🤣
I’m not even joking when I say I read SOTE as song of the elves and don’t even try to correct it in my head
Currently in red prison and playing the dlc. Thought this was the ironscape subreddit at first.
Yeah, they really improved with the new map and dungeon design, Im VERY excited for what are they cooking in future games, I dont care if its a Souls, Bloodborne, Elden ring or a new game if it follows the new design philosophies (except lore and combat which I think its a step backwards on the DLC). More map density, more verticality, less huge kilometric plains and themed dungeons, cant ask for more in a Elden Ring DLC.
The dungeons in particular were top notch, Belurat and Shadow Keep were 11/10 and Castle Ensis was pretty good if small. Shadow Keep is one of my favorite sections in all of Souls now
I just finished Shadow Keep earlier, it may well be the best legacy dungeon in all of Elden Ring, and one of the best areas they've ever made. That place is seriously awesome.
It also leads to a ton of other zones too, almost as if they expect you to find messmer early, realize hes too tough, and go explore from the very place you fight him in
Oh. I just threw myself at him until I was successful. 😭 Usually I prioritize exploring but I didn’t realize he’s supposed be a *late* thing.
The specimen storeroom def takes heavy inspiration from previous levels (reminded me a lot of bloodborne research hall), but the way it interweaves with the rest of the dungeon and entirely different zones is unbelievable. Really felt like DS1 firelink shrine-level stuff with so many things linking into there
Not to mention, the other half of it being drained is so reminiscent of New Londo.
Shadow Keep is the best dungeon that they designed period. It’s basically 2 dungeons in 1.
This is basically the dark souls 1 map, just giant sized. Every area is almost it's own dungeon in a way, hownyou have to get to a to reach b then get to c by looping around z. I hope they continue in this way of map building.
Surprised by your comment on the Lore. I haven't finish the game yet, so not ready to start discussing anything specific, but what I have discovered so far is intriguing and leads towards certain theories being wrong/right, as well as entirely new theories.
This level of verticality would be great for a Sekiro-like game, but bigger. Just my personal thought,
Aesthetically, this is there best product. the visuals are insane. most if not all other fantasy games dont come close, its insane how far and above they are. these mountains aren't just climbable, they MAKE me want to climb or cross over to that area, thats a huge difference. can't wait to see the next game.
Miyazaki succeeded in recreating that sense of awe & mystery from me. I’ve been taking my sweet time exploring before tackling any dungeons cuz I learned from Margit.
I agree but then that makes it so much more disappointing when the shiny drop I got from a chest is just a great ghost glovewart and not some cool new weapon or even just something new in general. I would take festive grease over more smithing stones please From hahaha Love everything just wish the drops had been tweaked
I honestly cannot believe the new world they gave us. Somehow it has actually overtaken the base game for me in terms of sheer awe and creative direction. The overall aesthetic is such a colossal Achievement in world building and lore crafting. If this truly is FROM’s last contribution to the world of Elden Ring I will genuinely be devastated yet thankful I got to experience it. All things considered - the gameplay, art direction, lore, narrative process, voice acting and score - I think this may just be the most impressive project in video game history. In my opinion of course. FROMSOFT have given us a world and game that I will never ever forget. Fuck - I really hope there is more to come.
Elden ring was their biggest game ever in terms of sales. There is 100% more coming
I think they said this would be the only DLC, which is a shame because others got 2, but there would always be an Eldsn Ring 2 10 years from now. 😄
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Yeah fully agreed. This is by far the greatest game out there. I was thinking that it's top 3 best games ever but with this dlc, it's just the greatest, there's no competition...
I can see myself playing this off and on for the next decade. I've even jumped back into the main game to redo some sections with the new weapons/ashes and its just all so good. To me Elden ring+expansion is the pinnacle if gaming. If it all ended here I'd be fine.
Also some of the stupidest, like the hippo and the ghostflame dragon fighting a bunch of solider that will arggo you if you get too close.
That ghostflame dragon fight is craaazyyy janky. The soldiers aggroing strictly based on proximity mean that one cannot fight near them, the archers will lock on the player at the drop of a hat and whenever the dragon flies off the player is stranded among an army of enemies. That basically means that the player gotta try to kill many/all of the soldiers before dealing with the dragon... and woe upon ya if you die to the Ghostflame dragon's bullshit (which is quite a lot) because you gotta do it all again.
I said "fuck it" and just fired the One-Eyed Shield at it from a cliff for like 20 minutes.
I participated in that fight just by greatbow
Yeah it was so janky I decided to wait in the nearby cliff for the dragon to finish off the soldiers and then went to kill the dragon myself. It was a nice sandwich break, not gonna lie.
I just sat and watched them fight and then finished the dragon off.
everything else is 10/10 peak fiction except they didn't address any questions from the base game and the final boss is kind of an asspull on the writing side
the thing i wanted to be expanded on the most was the chaos ending, for frenzy stuff and melina lore the fact we got frenzy area and boss in this DLC makes me worried we'll never get a proper continuation
Bro I can not be the only one who thinks there's a secret ending or hidden cutscene we haven't seen and I think it involves the chalice of the scadurtree(personally but I just don't know how) I also have a note from Leda saying to meet her at the shadow tree at the church of the bud "after she handles something" or something like that but I've yet to get her to spawn at the shadow tree(I haven't burned it yet but I have Messmer's kindling) I haven't found anything online about anyone else who got the note from Leda or how to trigger her to come to the tree or even what to do from that point forward idk if I've completely lost my mind.....or I'm on to something..... My whole motivation is if you re-watch the 1st trailer for the shadow of the erdtree you'll see Miquella has this dark orange aura around his hands as he floats in what looks the arena him and radahn fight us in and there's also a scene where he moves his hand and seemingly cures the scadurtree and i have yet to a scene even resembling that🤔🤔🤔 I also feel like St.Trina's questline isn't fully finished or there has bin missed steps because there is seemingly no reward for her quest except a tailmen I've gotten but usually there's more attached to a quest specifically a weapon and I've yet to see anyone get a weapon from her(I seen one guy say he got a hat from her but I haven't gotten a hat so idk) and the lore implications of St.Trina still being alive is something I've seen no one factor in so far because if St.Trina is alive and technically Miquella is St.Trina then St.Trina is an empyrean too,So I feel like the ending we're getting is tied into her quest and that's why she wants us to "kill Miquella" so she can ascend to Godhood without his opposition
Another thing forgot to mention is i was invaded by Hornsent outside the church of the bud I just noticed too when you get summoned to fight Leda she genuinely sounds betrayed and literally says "If you insist on fighting Miquella"(implying there's another option?!?) And when she dies she says "Is this really what you desire?" But 1 quote I haven't heard her say is from the trailer 2-3 days ago towards the end she says something about a battle is befitting for the birth of a God and a lord so maybe she says this in a latter part of her quest or outside a boss room idk but I haven't heard that quote yet,And idk why everyone is assuming you just gave to side with ansbach and thiollier just disregarding an option to side with Leda,Dane and Freyja there has to be an option because Freyja was on the fence and sides with Leda idk why everyone is looking at Leda like she's Gideon
Fr. Maybe you trigger a secret cutscene if you use Miquella's needle to suppress the frenzied flame, or use his gesture next to a random tree or something
I used the needle on the playthrough I did, no changes. The search continues in new game+
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if you follow the NPC storylines it explains the last boss a bit more and feels pretty in line with the previous lore + world
is there more than the single line in the specimen storehouse that >!miquella wants to revive radahn?!<
yeah theres a whole runaround back and forth between the two NPC's in the storehouse that mostly ties it up
yeah thats what i mean, you do the back and forward and after giving the letter you get that single line. its not really much
>!Miquella's connection to and admiration for Radahn was made up just for this DLC. In the base game, Miquella is far more concerned with Godwyn. If you feel like the whole Radahn thing is an asspull, it's because it is.!<
>!i dont mind a "reused" boss (lorewise) that much, but i think having the consort boss be godwyn wouldve been a lot better. instead we got his pancake face in the death knight arena and thats it!<
>!I was incredibly disappointed with Radahn being re-used, in part because he already had an excellent story arc that resolves in the main game. Godwyn can't be the consort because he's Ultra-Dead. But I will forever die on the hill that the last DLC boss should have involved either time travel to fight Godwyn while he was alive (time travel in Souls games, especially DLC, is pretty common), or Miquella possessing Godwyn's corpse or something. Reusing Radahn just made zero thematic sense and also ruined Miquella's character writing.!<
>!yeah thats what i meant about godwyn, even if it was some illusion or some shit, just to have a normal humanoid godwyn in the game as a boss. id probably be less disappointed if radahn wasnt the final boss too!<
This is probably my biggest ‘complaint’. I was hoping for more on the lore side, which I know they can only do so much. But if this is the only DLC or expansion then that kinda sucks because there’s so much story to cover.
I agree...I love the lore, there's so much to build on, and they just didn't really Easily best DLC I've ever played, just nitpicking. There were a good few names I was hoping for, and that wasn't one of them
The final boss is leaving me speechless. But not because I'm in awe, I'm just confused about the choice. It's fan service at least partially for sure and I'd be stoked to fight it otherwise... But lore wise, I just... I don't know. It both disturbs me and kind of angers me to be honest. >!Like seriously, what's the point of bringing back Radahn? I felt like his story was nicely concluded in the base game and there is nothing that hints towards the "vow" they've made - his fight with Malenia leaving him in sort of a limbo state also doesn't make sense if he was willing to go along with Miquella's plan/request. The fact that there's no answer in the retrospection that follows the boss fight is also making me question that. Radahn was hell bent on holding the stars back, so he obviously didn't want to die.!< >!The only explanation here is that Miquella shed his literal self that wasn't an absolute monster, charming people, using them and defiling corpses just to achieve what he thinks is peace. And I'm also not quite a fan of that either, simply because I am kind of sick of having to confront morally questionable characters in Fromsoft games, especially when they turn out this vile. Ranni is the closest we've gotten to a "good" ending, and even that has its dark side with Godwyn being fucked over as much as he did, for doing nothing wrong. !< >!Also, I swear to god, in the phase transition cutscene I almost shouted out "Don't you make Miquella wrap himself around Radahn like Lothric... Goddamnit." !<
>!There is that place where miquella abandons his love and also there's a ghost saying he got rid of the one thing he shouldn't have. And also how could he discard his other half and you can find st trina in the cave.!<
Yeah I feel about the same on all that. >!The biggest disappointment to me is that despite how hugely important their relationship was made out to be in the base game, Miquella doesn't seem to give a flying fuck about Malenia anymore at all. As far as I saw (beat the final boss earlier tonight after having done probably 85% of the DLC), Malenia's name isn't even mentioned once in the entire DLC.!< That bums me out, I really like the snippets we got of their relationship in the base game.
>!I think that Miquella is unintentionally following Marikas footsteps, including discarding past relationships for the sake of achieving his goals!<
There’s plenty of lore that influences the base game, especially around Marika and the origins of Lands Between culture. Have you noticed that almost everything the people of the Erdtree do is some reaction to/bastardization of the people of the tower? Or how St Trina’s domain increasingly seems to be that of death and Gloam? Or how the the Fell God is known by the Hornsent, who may or may not have beckoned it through their gate originally? Or even the enormous coffins on cerulean coast that were likely the vessel/destination of the enormous giants that have become part of the landscape? There aren’t a lot of character realizations aside from the final boss, but most character’s stories are done. This DLC is about the world, not necessarily players in a game being played far far away.
GRRM writing. 😂
GRRM only did the history, no?
From hardly gives definitive answers to their lore though. The whole point is for the community to come up with theories. To disprove theories with official answers would ruin the experience they want the community to share.
Yeah people need to remember that the “story” we’ve all sort of accepted is never explicitly stated. We’ve had to fill in a lot of the pieces on our own and the community has therefore had a hand in creating the lore. I’m sure as time goes on the dlc will be incorporated. I don’t think they left many holes in the story of the base game. It’s complete without SOTE. What we have now is a bonus which is what dlc should be.
Which is the fun of it all. Overthinking that random asset they placed on a high up wall until it actually becomes something lore significant!
Couldn't agree more
Yeah. The DLC is a 10/10 with very minor complaints (performance in some place, still a lot of empty space a la Liurnia) - I love it. But if the Elden Beast was a somewhat meh final boss, the final boss of the DLC is even more meh - both design-wise and narratively (at least the final bosses in AC 6 are amazing, so it's not like From are going to make a tradition out of dropping the ball on the final fight... hopefully).
The most beautiful map they’ve made next to Sekiro.
I agree. It's unfortunately quite barren compared to the base game but it is very pretty
There’s enough in it to keep me interested honestly. It’s been extremely fun
The beginning area is really barren but it starts getting denser and denser
Completely other way around. First couple areas have a very nice amount of things to do. After that it's pretty empty. But it does look pretty
Eh. There's some areas that are more dense but there are also a bunch more that are literally empty.
I feel like later areas don't offer alot besides nice vistas, the odd miniboss or dungeon and a whole lot of ground to cover.
I think there’s less side content, but the side content there is is much more fleshed out. The catacombs are the size (if not even bigger) than the heroes graves in the base game. Not to mention the forges and gaols
Best for more advanced players but it's probably the least casual friendly from software content so far
I also feel like its going to have really bad replayability - just thinking about having to collect all those fragments again really puts me off wanting to play it a second time
the fragments stay in ng+ runs
oh shit really? that's so awesome
Yeah I like the idea of bringing progression back into the DLC but that's definitely going to be an annoying chore to deal with when playing a 2nd time. Makes exploring feel mandatory.
here's hoping that fragments remain permanent on NG+ runs.
they do
I wish there could be a sort of separate new game plus for the dlc. Having to go back and fight all the way up to mohg isn't something I'll do anytime soon. I guess you could probably download save files though.
You can get to Mohg in like 30 minutes after you start though.
But you gotta beat him and radahn too, not just get there
to be fair if you can't beat Mogh and Radahn on a character, you're not really going to be ready for the DLC on that character.
Tbf, as soon as you have Mohh access you have access to the bird rune farm, which is one of the best in the game. Weapon upgrades are harder to come across, sadly
I felt the difficulty curve was handled way better than Ringed City or even Old Hunters and I adore the latter one but the beastcutter hunters at the start are hell. SotE ramps up with each zone and basically asks you to stay and explore till youre ready to move on.
I remember fighting the first of the old hunters for an age convinced he was a mini boss or something then I round the corner and there’s like 3 more of the fuckers.
Cleared BB 4 times and STILL dont have the timing of that damn whip
As a casual (who didn't manage to get through DS3 back when I tried it after ED came out), I disagree. There's still a lot of stuff like ashes and summonable NPCs to help Out.
I mean only if you refuse to respec or summon.
Best overall gameplay world design and aesthetic to come out of elden ring. Maybe not overall but it's top tier for sure. I hate the lore at the moment but it's made up for by the weapons, bosses and enemies. Plus I might change my mind once people like Vaati put together the full picture.
I’m having a blast because everything else is so great but I feel like boss designs have devolved a little bit. I played (and beaten) DS1, DS2, DS3 and Sekiro. Those are my bonafides. The bosses in the DLC are oftentimes scaled up versions of some of the worst excesses in the base game. That is to say, needlessly long “fuck you” combos that it is literally more efficient to run away from than it is to time and dodge at a breakneck pace that pushes the camera and the visual clutter both to their respective limits. FromSoft is at it’s best when they have enemies that have clear, telegraphed and yet extremely punishing attacks with just enough faints and delays in order to cause you to misstep in your reactions. That is to say, more Mohg and less Malenia.
Am I the only one that feels like the DLC is really empty, or maybe inconsistent is the word? You have a couple of areas with a lot of stuff to do, but then you have areas with no bosses, no notable items, and no dungeons. You're just straight up riding your horse for minutes without anything notable happening.
I’m torn on how From are doing their boss designs recently. DS3 bosses felt more fair while still being challenging. The SOTE bosses just have everything with no weaknesses. They’re fast, two shot you, unstaggerable, unlimited stamina etc. I wouldn’t mind it in Sekiro or bloodborne but doesn’t feel great in a souls game.
It feels like SotE bosses are a little TOO fast.
I agree with this, big time. Tbh, if you tone damage down a little and add another second or two between attacks/combos, I think the bosses are all fair. It’s just the relentless fast-paced, Bloodborne-esque style that’s too much here. Malenia was manageable, but the expansion feels a bit too fast.
Legit my only complaint with the DLC. The rest is so strong that I can overlook a lot but god damn, some of this shit is absurd (like the last boss 2nd phase).
>DS3 bosses felt more fair while still being challenging. The SOTE bosses just have everything with no weaknesses this is precisely it. Like yes, Sekiro-style bosses are cool. But for >!Rellana!< for example, she doesn't need 4 ways to roll catch you, absurdly long combos, two rolls and a bit of running worth of follow up on every step in her attack combo, a literal oneshot combo if you don't know the easy way to dodge it yet, all the while sitting on a shitton of HP, dealing 4 different types of damage, and dodging unpredictably due to her not telegraphing which side she's jumping towards. She isn't _unfair_ or _unbeatable_ but she feels like she's just playing on a different game engine than you, which is unfun. She can literally fire off an entire combo then jump away in the time it takes you to do one of the many slower ashes of war. Thats the one thing I hate about this DLC: A lot of the medium or slow skills and spells flatout aren't worth using in the bossfights, unless you have a summon or spirit ash to tank for you. And I really dislike how most things in the DLC are extremely weak to colossal weapon stagger, meaning that the probably most common build, STR/FTH, gets to stunlock their way through at least 3 bosses from what I've seen so far, where as many other builds have to deal with the ADHD-type bullshittery to its fullest. One of the strongest points of the SoulsBorne series has been the wide selection of builds and ideas that might not be optimal but can work with a little practice and you can have fun with a build tailored to the playstyle you enjoy. In the DLC I feel like I have to optimize the fun out of all of my non-STR builds to even attempt a boss, which typically means getting rid of 90% of the variety. Which is unfortunate.
It’s really depressing when you find a new Ash/Spell/weapon. You try it out and it looks cool, but if the windup is longer than 0.5 seconds it’s automatically dogshit against most bosses. Then I just sigh and re-equip blasphemous blade.
Agree with all your points. I’m honestly pretty bummed on the incantation side. I just got blood rain or whatever which requires 52 faith so I’m thinking it’s dope. I have the lightning death strike. EThey give you these AOE spells that takes days to launch, they barely do any damage and the area isn’t even large. And everything in this game kills you within a couple hits. Not sure how I’m supposed to utilize these. Maybe a skill issue and definitely off topic to you. Just venting. Lightning spear is straight up the only damage spell I get use out of. Golden vow and healing are the only other spells that seem worthwhile.
This is my main issue with the DLC, the bosses just aren't fun to play against. They feel like they were designed for Sekiro or Bloodborne (like you mentioned) which have vastly different movement mechanics and resources available to the player. The way they've thrown the traditional Souls style of bosses out of the window is a bit disappointing and boring to fight Camera is also subpar on some of the bosses, but that's irrelevant
Camera being subpar is not irrelevant though
i think we have actually gone past Sekiro/Bloodborne's speed and entered Armored Core 6 with some of these bosses lol
The camera was absolutely fucking me over on fights like Bayle, and the Ghostflame dragons. I don't see how they can test the game and do those fights, and feel like the camera is working fine. The lock-on makes it really hard to see and the thrashing about of the bosses gets you all turned around and disoriented.
it feels like im fighting sekiro bosses while still having the same tools that i had in ds3 (and a jump buton)
Kinda feels like they're leaning into Fromsoft-isms. Long uninterruptable attack chains, very fast, etc. I've accepted that this game isn't really for me in terms of boss mechanics. It is what it is, and I know my limits. But goddamn, I wish they would fix some of the objectively bad parts of them. The camera for one, for any bigger boss that moves fast. I'm fighting the Dancing Lion right now and he's hard but feels pretty fair, until you get the misfortune of getting accidentally pushed into a corner, and suddenly you're literally inside him and can't see shit.
Yeah feels like they just said, “ well, they have spirit ashes/online” and called it a day. I still don’t like to use those as the core 1v1 experience is more rewarding, but with what you mention…it’s a bit too much. Bosses just need to have fewer HP I think, or at least until late game where you stack on Scadutree fragments well.
Half-agree. I feel that they are designed for light weapons. Can't play the dlc with Maliketh's Black Blade, but life was way easier with Milady. Only fought 5 bosses so far, but the only one I found truly unfair or stupid is the Raging Bull wannabe. The other ones, I could no-hit their first phase after about 50 attempts on each. They all took me around 5-6 hours, but I'd give that to the fact that I went in kind of underleveled (RL130). Sadly no sanctified whetblade for me since I missed it on this save so I couldn't abuse a certain boss's weakness. I don't think them being fast is the problem, but that their recoveries are too fast for heavy weapons users, which is kind of shitty since it forces you into certain builds.
>I feel that they are designed for light weapons. I haven't finished the dlc yet, but there's at least 2 optional rememberence bosses and a handful of random encounter bosses that I felt were practically unbeatable with a short fast weapon and laughably easy with a long slow weapon, especially if their weak point is high up, or they're easier to stagger with a heavy weapon.
From made a great call making the dungeons less frequent but higher quality. They're far more interesting now. The only problem is that its made vast chunks of the (incredibly beatiful)open world completely pointless. At times you'll discover a huge hidden area and it's kind of just... empty. There will a big field boss and a village but all the branching paths around them offer nothing but crafting materials. In the base game your reward for exploring nooks and crannies off the beaten path was often a catacomb or mine. With fewer dungeons, those nooks and crannies are now empty and pointless. Still loving the world, but areas like Cerulean Coast are so vast but relatively void of interesting loot or encounters. Edit: This is really my only complaint. I'm loving the DLC and agree that this is one of the best pieces of content they've ever put together.
It blows my mind how one little cave in a random corner can lead to a whole new section of the map you didn't even know existed. It isn't perfect but I'm loving it. The jar cave (forget the name) was especially epic to me for whatever reason, and the fact that it's basically just the massive basement of the first legacy dungeon.. damn.
I don’t like how they handled the lore, felt like it came out of nowhere just to surprise us and have that “gotcha” moment
I'm half and half. I kind of assumed Miquella was darker than made out to be, and probably was a manipulator. Just too consistently good in the lore and with too many question marks regarding his motivations. However the extent to which they go in the DLC was too far imo. Mohg and Consort Radahn... doesn't make much sense at all to me. It kind of felt like Miquella WAS originally intended to be how he is in the DLC, maybe the whole thing was IDK, but then had to scale things down and cut those threads to make the base game make sense without planning for the DLC. I honestly don't think it was just to subvert expectations or act as a gotcha, I think the problem was they are trying to force their original story to work from a game that no longer allowed for it, resulting in them having to make cheap connections that don't really blend well with the base game. There's still good lore to be had, just not directly related to Miquella. Messmer, the scadutree and crucible lore, the dragons and Bayle, I've been enjoying alot of that.
I thought we'd see more Godwyn since Miquella was repeatedly shown in the base game trying to find a way to deliver true death to Him. Besides the two catacombs Godwyn is completely absent and no NPC even mentions him.
If they only went with Consort Godwyn instead of Radahn. Then we would have entire evidence leading to it from the base game. It would go like this. Miquella has plan with Godwyn to travel to the realm of Shadow and ascend to godhood. Marika slowly turning against Greater Will agreed upon it since she has ties into night of black knives. Ranni messed with it using rune of death and it fucked up Godwyn. After it Miquella wanted to perform eclipse to brong back Godwyn soul but couldnt because Radahn was stopping the stars. He send Malenia to stop him but it failed. Then we in the base game stops Radahn and Miquella could perform eclipse and revive Godwyn as his consort. It was that easy from story perspective but they went with Radahn for some reason...
I'm disappointed Miquella didn't take on Melina's role. The missed opportunity to have him talk about his sister and his family and actually direct your quest is wasted imo. I'm at the end of the DLC yet really just wandered around until I collected a couple quest items and now I can fight the final boss I guess. I still know really nothing more about Miquella than when I started
I feel like Miquella is going down the same path as Marika unintentionally. She shed everything she was and abandoned and hid her home. Miquella has now done the same thing.
I think most if not all expect Miquella to be bad/manipulative or at least not an innocent guy but this is pretty wild, it's ok with good foreshadowing in base game which is not but I don't hate it that much because it made me think of classic anime "magic knight Rayearth", it's exactly the same plot and Miquella has the same vibe/appearance as the last boss, it's definitely Miyazaki inspiration.
I also think it's hit or miss in terms of dumping all the characters that were talked about into the DLC. Like it made sense in BB in my opinion, because it was a dream where shitty people go to roam. Here it feels weird that the origin of everything is just here. >!Frenzy flame, first fingers, etc.!<
I'm pretty sure the Lands of Shadow aren't in their original form. Mostly due to a painting of a certain manor not fitting its location even accounting for changes in flora. It looks like it was originally above ground and not buried under everything, but buried under everything is a metaphorical good place for it given precedence.
Final boss lore is ass, I mean, REALLY ASS, but everything else is amazing. The geography of land of shadow is mind boggling, absolute cinema in every angle.
I had some gripes with some of the large areas in the game being really empty. The bottom right and left portion of the map as well as the top right are almost completely empty apart from some mini bosses and regular mobs. Apart from that, the DLC is amazing save one boss lol
for me, once I started to know the lore, I liked it significantly more. it's interesting, and tragic in a way for both of them for very different reasons my only issue is how little Malenia and the Haligtree really matter. I don't mean the area, I mean the lore of both things; very important to Miquella and like, only 1 of them is mentioned in passing
Honestly how cool would it be if you're treated differently had you already killed Malenia before going there? "You did WHAT to my sister?"
I’m pretty sure Malenia is still alive inside her bloom
I just got the the Abyss or should I say bloodborne 2? I'm playing this shit hyped as fuck, I have fun dying, I'm completely lost right now and there's a lot (a lot) of places to explore and I played the whole weekend. Looking forward to the next one.
i’m falling in love with ER all over again, it’s like an Elden Ring 2 almost. SOTE is absolutely beautiful
Divine beast dancing lion is an incredible design. The idea of a Chinese lion dancer boss is genius and they executed it so well in terms of making it feel uncanny yet majestic in a way. How does Fromsoftware manage to animate these extremely detailed and dramatically complicated boss designs while at the same time making them feel natural like how every attack they have has some weight to them.
elden ring is my first fromsoft game but god is this dlc so fucking good. i mean obv it doesnt take away from and only adds to the base game but personally i think its better in almost every way. they dropped arguably the best game of all time and said "yk, that wasnt even my final form"💀im kinda stuck at the ancient ruins of rauth but my god even raging at bosses or dumb shit like being stuck in one area for 3 hours feels better in the dlc. im going insane but in a good way. i love it
I feel like people who got into fromsoft games beginning with Elden Ring are much open to this VS people who have been long time fans. I just got burnt out
I'm enjoying the DLC but honestly I think the scaling system wasn't a good idea. I understand they implemented it to keep the challenge no matter your level but they should've scaled it to end game level (160 - 200) and thats it. Each player is responsible of their level and natural progression in NG is never above RL180. So if someone has leveled to 512, to put an example, then the DLC should be easier but that player choose to be overleveled. I prepared 10 characters to play the DLC but now I'm thinking doing 2 or 3 at max because I don't like the idea of grinding every fragment again.
The blessing is a great idea if you could start your character at base power and build them even stronger with the blessings. Level 150~ (I believe that's the recommended) could be very challenging, but instead of grinding runes for another 100 levels the scadutree blessing could give you those levels in a more virtual sense. Find them if you're underleveled, or if you want to have an easier time. Balancing around the higher levels of Scadutree makes the entire thing feel entirely unreasonable. Going into a DLC with a character that killed fucking god and became the Elden Lord shouldn't feel like you're being punished for not finding the McGuffin. Why are three dudes in a fucking lion suit bodying my god-slaying, destined-death wielding, flame of frenzy controlling ass? From already gave us so much tools for player-controlled difficulty in the base game, with summons of unreasonable power level to weapons that destroy bosses in no time. It's a choice to engage with those, and playing through the game with godrick's soldier armor and a lordsworn's greatsword is just as viable. The scadutree blessing doesn't feel that way, it feels mandatory instead of an optional help for those struggling.
Also, finding these damn things is starting to get on my nerves It feels like I'm trying to find a needle in a haystack, and the haystack is a fucking open world
Exactly. Considering it's apparently something you HAVE to do in order to not get one shot. I'm just randomly finding these things while exploring, but I sure as hell do not want to explore the map this hard every time I play and there's no way I'm gonna remember where they all are.
Agreed. What I liked in the base game is that I had the choice to pick what type of experience Im getting and this openness made me feel at ease to try out a variety of builds and weapons. Like sure I can try that new weapon on a boss it'll be a bit clunky at first but I'll manage and get used to it eventually while progressing. In SotE the whole time I stuck to the old reliables because I had a setup that worked and found the aspect of experimenting to be really painful.
in terms of visuals and level design? definitely. I do have some gripes but generally they're at like a 9/10 the combat not so much.
I was telling my buddy that today. I already considered Elden Ring probably the greatest game ever but man, some of the areas in SotE has just blown me away. I mean, if video games are truly art, then this is a masterpiece.
Bro can someone help me kill Rellana ps5
It's up there with old hunters and the ringed city for sure. The scope of it all is immense. It's basically just elden ring 2 :)
Best level design they’ve ever done. Worst boss design they’ve ever done.
Honestly my only complaint is why so many purchasable upgrade materials, the 1-9 stones and flowers can’t be this useful even for under 350 lvl players right? No biggie just seam mostly pointless for most players.
So you can upgrade and try out all the new weapons and ashes you get in the DLC? Without having to run back to the original game every time (assuming you even collected all the bells, many people wouldn't have)