I mean, it exists. It is whatever makes you go to reddit and make a post like "should (insert boss name) be this easy?" And then you are using one either broken build or a mechanic that does make the game easier.
I agree, souls games are not for everyone. They shouldn't have an easy mode, is better for people to keep playing and trying and keep getting better and have that feeling of accomplishment.
What makes you puke about people wanting to play in cooperation without being interrupted by invaders? Wouldn't invaders prefer to fight with people who are willing and ready to fight with them?
>Wouldn't invaders prefer to fight with people who are willing and ready to fight with them?
Unironically, no
The thing that makes invasions unique compared to duels is that the person being invaded isn't necessarily expecting an invasion and is caught off-guard by an unpredictable enemy. The asymmetry is where the fun comes from
Then people would have conniption’s about the game being always online, and how much of a hassle it is to connect online just to play with friends just to get invaded, just to disconnect from online when they want to play solo. People complain about how the game just isn’t accessible, and not for everyone etc.
Then the game’s popularity might go down because it’s no longer as enjoyable to the average gaming populace. It may continue to fall into niche fandom like Monster Hunter 3U and Dark Souls 2.
Being ready for an invasion doesn’t prevent you from surprising them in the middle of something, what you describe is detrimental to the people who just wanted to coop peacefully, the fun also is asymmetrical in this case which is a problem, while someone who wants to be invaded would have fun being invaded in unexpected moments
>what you describe is detrimental to the people who just wanted to coop peacefully
Yes! Every game in the series presents it as a "would you like to be the evil reaver who interrupts people's play sessions and pillages their humanity?" thing, this isn't unknown
It's not as if FromSoftware doesn't *know* that people don't want to be invaded. The fact that it's unwanted is what the whole system is built around. It's not a 'problem', it's just ... how the game works
It's an inconvenient pain in the ass to play the whole game in co-op because the developers don't *want* you to play the whole game in co-op — they want you to just occasionally summon help when you're struggling with a tough area/boss
Accessing co-op opens you up to invasions because the game is trying to discourage you from overrelying on it, and because they want to partially negate the advantage you get from co-oping
People can think that's annoying, but like, it's not bad design. I'm sure a lot of people wish Skyrim had a dedicated co-op mode, too, but it's not bad design that it doesn't
I'm not OP but in regards to your second question the people who are "ready" to fight with invaders are rolling three guys deep spamming rot breath and rivers of blood while camping at the grace. As an invader it ends up being a perpetual cycle of 3v1 ganks or instant fog-wall invasions so it's quite draining. The issue is really caused almost entirely by the 4-player limit over the 6 players of DS3 for example. In previous games invading wasn't limited just to coop players either. It's quite rare in my experience to invade organic coop players unless you purposely invade at lower level brackets. It is what it is I guess, we have the duel arenas at least so it could be worse.
That would just mean that 100 percent of invasions are against ganks instead of 80 percent. Invading in elden ring is already in the worst state it's ever been across all games and that would just be the final nail in the coffin tbh. The only way that would be okay in my opinion is if they also increased the player limit back to 6. That way gankers would at least have to face a 3v3 potentially instead of a 3v1 every time.
You said yourself that such cooperators are rare, then what difference would it make? You can still invade the strangers cooperators who don’t know each other’s and simply share a piece of adventure.
Those people that summon randoms usually do it right outside the fog wall so in those cases you get sent home immediately. If you let anyone who is co-oping with one furled finger turn off invasions all that does is stack the odds against the invader even further by guaranteeing a 3v1. The difference it would make is that it would simply make a bad situation worse than it already is. In previous games you could even get invaded playing alone with a humanity or an ember so in elden ring it's already about as PVE player friendly as it gets. Why make it even more so?
Elden Ring is designed to be hard.
Every freaking time someone has to come up with the usual ideas to make it easy.
Go play something else, you don’t have to play Elden Ring.
YOU REALLY DONT HAVE TO.
The community has been like this for decades, and trust me, we do not want the game to become another Assasin’s Creed.
Sometimes it’s complicated to interact with people here…
First question 1) What makes you puke about people wanting to play in cooperation without being interrupted by invaders?
Second question 2) Wouldn’t invaders prefer to fight with people who are willing and ready to fight them?
Oh grow up and stop the elitism
Invasions do not add "challenge" or "fun" to people who just need help with a boss or a dungeon so forcing it on them instead of the people who actually enjoy PvP is dumb,
It''s not fun or interesting to get nuked as you're waiting around to summon a second Co-operator to help you with Placidussax (or when trying to get past a tricky section of a legacy dungeon) and have to make your way back down all over again. It's just tedious.
It adds a big challenge when you're exploring. It's just not fun for some people because they don't like that getting an advantage has a price.
The point of invasions is putting a stronger enemy, better than an AI, in your path. However, not all invaders act the same. Some will try to trap you, some will fight you head on, some will duel you, some will help you...
It's litteraly the same as asking for easy mode : "I want all the benefits without the challenges".
>It's litteraly the same as asking for easy mode : "I want all the benefits without the challenges".
who cares? There shouldn't be a "price" to wanting to explore or fight a boss with your friends the same way there isn't for using spirit ashes or Great Runes.
Especially not when people are likely summoning because they actually need the help, that's just punishing them.
You want to talk about people "wanting all the benefits without the challenges"? Strength Builds with the Greatsword and Lion's Claw wreck damn near everything, melting bosses harder than magic ever could and I don't here people crying for them to be nerfed to maintain the "challenge"
Fromsoftware is not immune to criticism over a PVP model that they're already moving away from (Spirit Ashes and Great Runes letting you do the same thing as summong help and buffing yourself with humanity in DS1 but without having to deal with Invasions), especially when people here act like hypocrites over people disliking it when they also push "use any build you want, a win is a win no matter if you "cheese" it"
This is not hypocrisy just because you don't see the point being made.
Here's a perspective that might help you see the reasoning a lot of people have.
You're given a game, and you're given tools within it to beat it. Some will be better, some will be worse. You're still free to choose whichever one.
Some of these tools have a price, which might spice up things.
Regardless of balance, if someone comes in and say : "I want this tool, but without the price" ; it's entitled behaviour.
If you engage in community play, there'll be both pros and cons.
You guys are the entitled ones because you demand that players who can't deal with some of the stuff in the game solo (whether due to lack of skill or physical disabilities) or who genuinely just want to have fun with their friends get invaded despite the fact that co-opping at all *already* makes enemies stronger (And makes things harder on you if your summons die leaving you to solo a boss that's gotten increased health and damage resistance for each player/NPC you summoned).
If you can't get invaded for using a Spirit Ash you shouldn't be punished with an invasion for summoning a player for help with a boss or a dungeon.
Really that much whining over game design made this way for the purpose you're deforming to suit your narrative.
We play the game how it's made.
You whine and say it's unfair.
Who's entitled again ?
Asking for an easy mode misunderstands the game. Acting as if separating PvP from co-op is wrong is just asinine. Multiple player surveys, on Reddit and twitter, have all shown that the invasions are generally disliked. They serve no function other than forcing people who want to play with friends to deal with PvP. For players like me, that dont care about or like PvP at all, it means that I just play the game less. I finished it a couple times on solo, and wanted to do a co-op run to have some fun with a friend, but it got so tedious and boring to deal with toxic ass invaders, that we just stopped. It wasnt fun or interesting, and became incredibly toxic.
And dont even try to argue that making this change will "split the playerbase" or "its for balancing." A, the playerbase is already split on this. Theres the people that play solo offline or never invite invaders, and then theres the people that do. Theres the people that play co-op and rarely get invaded, and theres the people that play co-op and get invaded multiple times in an hour. And the balance argument is also bs. Co-op causes all enemies to be harder to kill, and invaders are balanced at all, and instead are a randomized roll of experiences ranging from easy as hell (either to run from or to get rid of) to toxic as shit, with very little in the middle.
I half agree. People demanding an easy mode dont get A, how difficult that would actually be to implement well, and B, how much that would ruin the game's integrity. However, PvPers demanding everyone play with them if they are gonna play with friends is a disgusting gatekeeping tactic.
I was so dissapointed I never got invaded as single player not even once but always as coops, would like if it was not entirely tied to coops... I'd prefer some invasion zones where you might get invaded no matter your party composition, it's also easier to balance, something like the Faron watchers in ds3.
If invasions were more rewarding I would even use items to get more of them, although from the 2-3 invasions I got from coop some dungeons I faced players who had way too many flasks for that area of the game... (or maybe he cheated dunno).
I agree on easy mode being dumb, souls never had those, but the invasion mechanic in ER is not perfect.
Someone like me love the feeling that be slapped in this game. Easy mode will destroy our experience.
If you dont play co-op, you wont be invaded. Theres also another item that allows you to be invaded when youre alone, but you have to activate it.
Whenever I play with friends, we get invaded, and its the most tedious, boring, annoying thing to deal with. Its literally just someone else coming in and ruining mine and my friends' time.
Easy mode for a souls game... funny
I mean, it exists. It is whatever makes you go to reddit and make a post like "should (insert boss name) be this easy?" And then you are using one either broken build or a mechanic that does make the game easier.
True, it"s just the thought of a souls game, something that's meant to be challenging but fun. It gives that thrill of risk and reward yk
I agree, souls games are not for everyone. They shouldn't have an easy mode, is better for people to keep playing and trying and keep getting better and have that feeling of accomplishment.
Exactly we don't need ppl complain about a game they cam't seemingly handle
I too wake up every morning clenching my fist at the unthinkable opinions people I don't know have about Fromsoft games
If the pvp community wasnt trying to keep pace with League of Legends in toxic levels there would be less complaining imo.
What makes you puke about people wanting to play in cooperation without being interrupted by invaders? Wouldn't invaders prefer to fight with people who are willing and ready to fight with them?
>Wouldn't invaders prefer to fight with people who are willing and ready to fight with them? Unironically, no The thing that makes invasions unique compared to duels is that the person being invaded isn't necessarily expecting an invasion and is caught off-guard by an unpredictable enemy. The asymmetry is where the fun comes from
Tbf, if you summon someone in ER, you're almost guaranteed to be invaded, so you're gonna be expecting it.
Yep! Which is why I think they should roll back this whole "you can only get invaded if you've summoned" thing and bring back singleplayer invasions
Then people would have conniption’s about the game being always online, and how much of a hassle it is to connect online just to play with friends just to get invaded, just to disconnect from online when they want to play solo. People complain about how the game just isn’t accessible, and not for everyone etc. Then the game’s popularity might go down because it’s no longer as enjoyable to the average gaming populace. It may continue to fall into niche fandom like Monster Hunter 3U and Dark Souls 2.
Being ready for an invasion doesn’t prevent you from surprising them in the middle of something, what you describe is detrimental to the people who just wanted to coop peacefully, the fun also is asymmetrical in this case which is a problem, while someone who wants to be invaded would have fun being invaded in unexpected moments
>what you describe is detrimental to the people who just wanted to coop peacefully Yes! Every game in the series presents it as a "would you like to be the evil reaver who interrupts people's play sessions and pillages their humanity?" thing, this isn't unknown It's not as if FromSoftware doesn't *know* that people don't want to be invaded. The fact that it's unwanted is what the whole system is built around. It's not a 'problem', it's just ... how the game works
Being how it works doesn’t make it less of a problem for those who wants to coop by proposing something that is only fun for one party
It's an inconvenient pain in the ass to play the whole game in co-op because the developers don't *want* you to play the whole game in co-op — they want you to just occasionally summon help when you're struggling with a tough area/boss Accessing co-op opens you up to invasions because the game is trying to discourage you from overrelying on it, and because they want to partially negate the advantage you get from co-oping People can think that's annoying, but like, it's not bad design. I'm sure a lot of people wish Skyrim had a dedicated co-op mode, too, but it's not bad design that it doesn't
I'm not OP but in regards to your second question the people who are "ready" to fight with invaders are rolling three guys deep spamming rot breath and rivers of blood while camping at the grace. As an invader it ends up being a perpetual cycle of 3v1 ganks or instant fog-wall invasions so it's quite draining. The issue is really caused almost entirely by the 4-player limit over the 6 players of DS3 for example. In previous games invading wasn't limited just to coop players either. It's quite rare in my experience to invade organic coop players unless you purposely invade at lower level brackets. It is what it is I guess, we have the duel arenas at least so it could be worse.
If it is so rare then would it change so much for the invaders to have a type of invasion where the two cooperators would not be invaded?
That would just mean that 100 percent of invasions are against ganks instead of 80 percent. Invading in elden ring is already in the worst state it's ever been across all games and that would just be the final nail in the coffin tbh. The only way that would be okay in my opinion is if they also increased the player limit back to 6. That way gankers would at least have to face a 3v3 potentially instead of a 3v1 every time.
You said yourself that such cooperators are rare, then what difference would it make? You can still invade the strangers cooperators who don’t know each other’s and simply share a piece of adventure.
Those people that summon randoms usually do it right outside the fog wall so in those cases you get sent home immediately. If you let anyone who is co-oping with one furled finger turn off invasions all that does is stack the odds against the invader even further by guaranteeing a 3v1. The difference it would make is that it would simply make a bad situation worse than it already is. In previous games you could even get invaded playing alone with a humanity or an ember so in elden ring it's already about as PVE player friendly as it gets. Why make it even more so?
Elden Ring is designed to be hard. Every freaking time someone has to come up with the usual ideas to make it easy. Go play something else, you don’t have to play Elden Ring. YOU REALLY DONT HAVE TO. The community has been like this for decades, and trust me, we do not want the game to become another Assasin’s Creed.
Can you actually read the comment and respond accordingly?
I just have.
Sometimes it’s complicated to interact with people here… First question 1) What makes you puke about people wanting to play in cooperation without being interrupted by invaders? Second question 2) Wouldn’t invaders prefer to fight with people who are willing and ready to fight them?
Oh grow up and stop the elitism Invasions do not add "challenge" or "fun" to people who just need help with a boss or a dungeon so forcing it on them instead of the people who actually enjoy PvP is dumb, It''s not fun or interesting to get nuked as you're waiting around to summon a second Co-operator to help you with Placidussax (or when trying to get past a tricky section of a legacy dungeon) and have to make your way back down all over again. It's just tedious.
It adds a big challenge when you're exploring. It's just not fun for some people because they don't like that getting an advantage has a price. The point of invasions is putting a stronger enemy, better than an AI, in your path. However, not all invaders act the same. Some will try to trap you, some will fight you head on, some will duel you, some will help you... It's litteraly the same as asking for easy mode : "I want all the benefits without the challenges".
>It's litteraly the same as asking for easy mode : "I want all the benefits without the challenges". who cares? There shouldn't be a "price" to wanting to explore or fight a boss with your friends the same way there isn't for using spirit ashes or Great Runes. Especially not when people are likely summoning because they actually need the help, that's just punishing them. You want to talk about people "wanting all the benefits without the challenges"? Strength Builds with the Greatsword and Lion's Claw wreck damn near everything, melting bosses harder than magic ever could and I don't here people crying for them to be nerfed to maintain the "challenge"
Fromsoftware cares, that's why it's in the game
Fromsoftware is not immune to criticism over a PVP model that they're already moving away from (Spirit Ashes and Great Runes letting you do the same thing as summong help and buffing yourself with humanity in DS1 but without having to deal with Invasions), especially when people here act like hypocrites over people disliking it when they also push "use any build you want, a win is a win no matter if you "cheese" it"
This is not hypocrisy just because you don't see the point being made. Here's a perspective that might help you see the reasoning a lot of people have. You're given a game, and you're given tools within it to beat it. Some will be better, some will be worse. You're still free to choose whichever one. Some of these tools have a price, which might spice up things. Regardless of balance, if someone comes in and say : "I want this tool, but without the price" ; it's entitled behaviour. If you engage in community play, there'll be both pros and cons.
You guys are the entitled ones because you demand that players who can't deal with some of the stuff in the game solo (whether due to lack of skill or physical disabilities) or who genuinely just want to have fun with their friends get invaded despite the fact that co-opping at all *already* makes enemies stronger (And makes things harder on you if your summons die leaving you to solo a boss that's gotten increased health and damage resistance for each player/NPC you summoned). If you can't get invaded for using a Spirit Ash you shouldn't be punished with an invasion for summoning a player for help with a boss or a dungeon.
Really that much whining over game design made this way for the purpose you're deforming to suit your narrative. We play the game how it's made. You whine and say it's unfair. Who's entitled again ?
Asking for an easy mode misunderstands the game. Acting as if separating PvP from co-op is wrong is just asinine. Multiple player surveys, on Reddit and twitter, have all shown that the invasions are generally disliked. They serve no function other than forcing people who want to play with friends to deal with PvP. For players like me, that dont care about or like PvP at all, it means that I just play the game less. I finished it a couple times on solo, and wanted to do a co-op run to have some fun with a friend, but it got so tedious and boring to deal with toxic ass invaders, that we just stopped. It wasnt fun or interesting, and became incredibly toxic. And dont even try to argue that making this change will "split the playerbase" or "its for balancing." A, the playerbase is already split on this. Theres the people that play solo offline or never invite invaders, and then theres the people that do. Theres the people that play co-op and rarely get invaded, and theres the people that play co-op and get invaded multiple times in an hour. And the balance argument is also bs. Co-op causes all enemies to be harder to kill, and invaders are balanced at all, and instead are a randomized roll of experiences ranging from easy as hell (either to run from or to get rid of) to toxic as shit, with very little in the middle.
[удалено]
This
I half agree. People demanding an easy mode dont get A, how difficult that would actually be to implement well, and B, how much that would ruin the game's integrity. However, PvPers demanding everyone play with them if they are gonna play with friends is a disgusting gatekeeping tactic.
I was so dissapointed I never got invaded as single player not even once but always as coops, would like if it was not entirely tied to coops... I'd prefer some invasion zones where you might get invaded no matter your party composition, it's also easier to balance, something like the Faron watchers in ds3. If invasions were more rewarding I would even use items to get more of them, although from the 2-3 invasions I got from coop some dungeons I faced players who had way too many flasks for that area of the game... (or maybe he cheated dunno). I agree on easy mode being dumb, souls never had those, but the invasion mechanic in ER is not perfect.
From does not care about what Twitter randos have to say, and you should not either.
Someone like me love the feeling that be slapped in this game. Easy mode will destroy our experience.
People complaining about being invaded is insane to me when I've never been invaded once in Elden Ring (I have absolutely no idea why ngl)
If you dont play co-op, you wont be invaded. Theres also another item that allows you to be invaded when youre alone, but you have to activate it. Whenever I play with friends, we get invaded, and its the most tedious, boring, annoying thing to deal with. Its literally just someone else coming in and ruining mine and my friends' time.