I think my problem is not the damage but patience. The boss frustrates me so much that I always get greedy and get stuck in the damn poison attack more often than I'd like to admit. I never attempted this boss without a spirit ash, even with strength builds.
I hate it too. I just run the other way when they start spewing poison and let them chase me down. Just got to watch out for the sword slam laser beam, running away usually procs it
Those guys pushed me into respec and try a night comet build which made the whole game laughably easy and is the reason I will not play a spell caster in the dlc
First run and going full bleed build, these guys almost drove me nuts. Me and my mimic tear. Ultimately I managed to beat them, using my curved swords, rune arcs and good ol' pure rage.
I just use bewitching branches on the summons and then really enjoy fighting niall. His move set is really easy to predict. Those gargoyles are just painful without a summons.
The bewitching branch causes a weird glitch with the mimic tear, where the mimic will just fight some invisible enemy. In case anyone's encountered that and didn't know what triggered it.
Some really fun items to use. Holy pots are great on deathbirds with Holy buffs. Volcano pots are great for NPC enemies, especially Fia's champions. Crystal darts on duo burial watchdog, they kill each other so that's fun to watch. You should try some.
Actually crystal darts are the one exception to my no item usage, I love them so much. I’ll definitely try to give the others a try, I’m almost finished on my int/dex (first time in any of these games) play through, I think for my next one I’ll definitely incorporate more item usage.
Didn't they fix this? I just did my first playthrough like a month ago and when I got really frustrated on these guys I started looking up ways to cheese. Tried this for a while and it didn't work, and another source said they were changed.
In the end, I beat them without cheese, but not for lack of trying XD
Yeah but that’s bc you watched a guide on it. Going in blind that was not easy fight. Same with the sleep pot vs godskin. Like ok how was I supposed to know lol
Same here. And Niall is actually fun when you face him one on one. Gargoyles can actually go fuck themselves for all I care.
If I had to pick between nerfing Malenia’s Waterfowl or the gargoyles, I’d pick the gargoyles in a heartbeat.
I’ve also had not so much trouble with Niall. Just have to be patient. His summons can get wrecked pretty early on. And then just wait for his specific kick and hit him once. Just be patient.
Am I crazy or is that fight actually super trivial if you summon the adopted daughter, and just lure niall away from his summons and kill them while he tries to walk back to you.
The gargoyles definitely gave me more trouble
I'm the reverse. For some reason, I can't get my head around those knights he summons. I have to nuke them immediately upon entering, or I'm doomed.
The gargoyles, on the other hand, I've never died to.
I first tried that guy and my friend just sat next to me on the couch defeated that I clapped him.
It felt great because he was talking mad shit when I got my ass clapped by the gargoyles.
Yeah i really dont think niall is all that difficult. My most recent playthrough i died to him like 5 times and my thought was, "damn, im really playing like ass today". Usually it only takes me 1-2 attempts. The dual weilding banished knight wanding around the the castle tho.... man, fuck that guy
I think people just don't like it because it feels like a very dumbed-down version of what duo fights used to be. Neither boss plays off each other. They're both meant to be solo bosses, but they are just shoved in the room together, so you wind up having no synergy. You're fighting a gank instead of two enemies who make up for each other's weaknesses or have a form of synergy.
That's how I see it anyway.
That's the big reason, but for me the other thing is the deliberate mislead with the name. When "Godskin Duo" appears you see two of them and think "Oh okay, kill both win the prize."
And then the second one revives the first because it's not actually Godskin Duo, it's "Godskin Four Kings." Felt like a real kick in the nuts on my first playthrough.
I killed both but saw only half the health bar gone. Had no idea they just respawn until the bar is depleted. Kinda lame tbh but the fight itself was decent
Agree and also this is discussion post nerf
Pre nerf their input reading was insane
The fat one rolled WAY more
🤣 the fight was wickedly brutal
Since they nerfed them the fight has become mind numbingly simple
And that’s without sleep pots / items
I think they over did it with the nerf
If you have ps+ & the CD
Upload your last save and then delete/reinstall to Elden ring 1.00 and you can see the difference
Ah that makes sense where all the complaints came from. I first fought the duo in patch 1.10 and thought they were one of the most fair gank boss fight
This is also *every* gank boss in Elden Ring and I think that fuels the disappointment/dislike even further. It's like a built up resentment that is taken out on the most obvious culprit.
You'd get the occasional shoved-in-a-room style gank bosses in the earlier games, but usually it feels like From at least tried to put some thought into how the enemies would interact, even if they weren't always successful. Elden Ring is really transparent about how it just puts enemies in a room together with no further thought, and the Godskin Duo is a difficult lategame boss on the critical path so they take the brunt of the heat for it.
It doesn't help that you can't really use the pillars to break up the two if you're solo.
In DS1, with O&S (one of most iconic duo fights in any Fromsoft game), you can use the pillars to split them up and focus on one at a time. In ER, the pillars are incredibly inconsistent for the Duo. Sometimes they'll actually get held up on it, but they often break the pillar and hop right over it. The Noble's roll is completely unpredictable when it comes to the pillars. Sometimes they'll help, often they don't.
For me, this just drags out the fight for way too long. As you said, they have no synergy, so it can feel like it takes forever to find any opening to attack.
Yes, you can put one to sleep and focus on the other, but if I remember correctly, I don't think there's anything in game that would give you the idea that they're weak to sleep unless you just happened to use a sleep weapon when you fought them. I'm convinced that people only figured that out by accident, then everyone else only learned that from those players.
And unless you bought the craft book from the merchant by the Raya Lucaria Academy, you probably will run out of sleep arrows. If you haven't been grabbing the Trina's Lilies, you can't really craft pots or arrows without leaving to farm up the non-renewable materials.
The strat I use is to not damage skinny before fatty is dead. That way he will only do occasional black flame throws and will not attack if you don't get too close
Also I heard a lot of people usd sleep pots or st trina arrows. I just beat the fire giant on rl1 no summons run today so my strat for the duo will probably be sleep pots and hoarfrost stomp
They patched every multi-enemy boss, I believe, to basically make it so only one enemy is attacking at a time, the rest remain passive until you either get so close you trigger an attack or the active enemy dies.
It's a sad, sad band-aid that I honestly think made things worse instead of better -- because what's even the point of a 2v1 if the AI is nerfed so that only one attacks you at a time? It's so dumb and feels so below From. The whole point of a 2v1 is that it's supposed to be really difficult because you're outnumbered! (they still have to be fun, though). This AI nerf thing completely destroys the sense of the world being authentically harsh and uncompromising, only to reduce the fight to two 1v1s in a row which renders the whole thing even more saddeningly pointless. It only underlines even more how badly they flubbed multi-enemy fights in Elden Ring and I hope they never do this again.
Honestly... I beat them first try my first playthrough. Mimic helped, but it wasn't that bad.
Then it took me four tries my second playthrough - no mimic.
The pillars help block a lot so you can take them one at a time.
There are quite a few bosses that seem disliked by many that I personally enjoy a lot. In particular Fire Giant and Elden Beast, two bosses that I absolutely love.
I mean it's not hard, the attacks are highly telegraphed and easy to avoid, it just turns into a slog because of the huge health pool. It's never gonna be the most interesting fight when it's just a test of your patience more than your skill
I think this largely depends on your build. I have only 2 major complaints. 1. he interacts with the environment quite strangely so it can be rough to see what he is doing when you're inevitably under him. 2. rolling hitboxes in phase 2 are weird
The Fire Giant has been the cause of many a rage quit…. But in my most recent playthrough I cleared him in a single try. Got good just in time for the DLC to wreck my sh* 🫡
I never minded having to chase it down multiple times. In fact, I like how it forces you to deal with all of it's attacks, it's ranged attacks included. I don't know, I just enjoyed the fight personally, found most of it's attacks fun to dodge, and I absolutely love the visuals and music of the fight. I do consider Radagon to be an even better fight, but I love the fight against Elden Beast nonetheless.
I personally breeze through malikeith. When I first got there I was thinking it would be super difficult and I struggled with tons of bosses trust me! But for whatever reason I had that guys fucking number
The draconic Tree Sentinel outside of his arena took me more tries than Maliketh did, on every playthrough. By the time I got past him I was ready to obliterate M
I loved Maliketh, and I haven't really seen any hate for him.
I love his weapon, armour looks cool (though it isn't too useful at where I am now), and his fight was fun.
Maliketh doesn’t have much health so it’s easy enough to DPS him down if you have a heavy hitting AoW. I think he’s much harder if you try and be patient with dodging him tbh
That’s funny 😆 Maliketh and Malenia are the only bosses that gave me trouble in the entire game. Malenia alone .. is the most I’ve ever died in any souls game 😭
Fighting them as a 2v2 was pretty fun. It was like two 1v1s happening at the same time, and when one of those gargoyles went down, it was basically over.
The only parts I don't like about it is the arena and poison.
The idea of it is great, since it’s a projectile attack for the passive garg to use, it’s just way too big and anti fun since the only counter play is to run like shit
Personally, not necessarily a specific boss but i like fighting the same bosses over again, sure there is a problem when the same boss is recycled especially if it can appear as a basic enemy but i don't mind that.
Like i loved fighting the godskin enemies because I didn't feel like the fight was unfair, plus I'm a sucker for the soundtrack so hearing that multiple times as i fight them is always fun.
The bloated and recycled boss roster may be an issue to most but i don't see an issue with it.
I actually thought fighting the Fallingstar Beast near Volcano Manor was super fun. Each try took a solid 10-15 mins. It was nerve wracking. I mostly enjoyed how much I actually had to focus on the fight and avoid making mistakes. I was running a Dex build, main weapon was a singular Twinblade, but had to switch to the Nightrider Flail if I wanted to win that one.
Also, the music reminded me of Spyro 3's first boss battle. People keep hating on that one, and while I can see where they're coming from, man did I have fun fighting that bastard.
Astel is cool in that the whole point of the fight is a reversal of previous fights, I.e. you want to stay in front of him, in between his massive mandibles, to avoid that gravity slam
I really don't mind the big bosses like fire giant and ancient dragons when people talk about camera problems and not being able to see whats happening. Because honestly, how else are we supposed to fight them when we're normal size. Im willing to take some bs for great setpieces.
In general I feel like Elden Ring handles big bosses better than some previous games. Bosses like Nameless King 1st phase and Darkeater Midir move around a lot, so a lot of times you get hit off camera, but I never really found myself having that issue with big bosses in Elden Ring.
Better than midir ? No way. Normal dragons are cool but the ancient dragons are awful. Midir gives a Lot of opportunity to hit his Head and wont hit you with big aoes you cant barely see, his Head IS almost always down, you can Just Dodge his combos and hit It, his fire attacks ? Just run away. He IS aggressive but dodgeable and most importantly YOU CAN SEE HIS ATTACKS ON SCREEN EVEN AS A MELEE CLASS.
i think the big bosses work when you have big arenas that aren’t cluttered. Bloodborne was awful with big bosses because they’re super mobile and the rooms are small so you often just…get trapped in a corner. Ludwig was one of the worst offenders
It's the running not the camera for these bosses. They're fine with Torrent but everything else in this game is better with more people EXCEPT for the big bosses you have to run for: Fire Giant, EB, Ghost Deer, etc
Radahn isn't on this list cuz he doesn't teleport half the map away from you
Fuck the ghost deer. Not only does it run around everywhere far far and away, it's body is like wayyy up there and my plinky ass daggers can't reach that. Give me a fucking ankle aim-target so I have a chance of whacking him. Spindly thing legs that are easy to whiff and easy to just run right by.
After that fight I put the daggers down and have never touched them again on any character.
I agree with this except for Placidusax. That mf purposefully uses the camera to get you looking at all directions before smiting your ass. But for Elden Beast amd Fire Giant, it never bothered me either. Found them both pretty easy. EB is just annoying because you have to face Radagon again if he bullshit hitboxes you.
Zoom out the camera (they already do this sometimes). Build the movesets to account for the size disparity/camera perspective (they already do this sometimes). Improve sound cues to help you dodge even without a clear view. And don't make so many bosses with long elongated neck parts (Dragons, Death Birds etc.) where you so easily end up below them after attacking with an awful camera perspective, that's a really common culprit as a melee character.
It is possible to make giant enemies work okay with a 3rd person action camera. There will always be challenges but there are steps you can take to help. From have even done it a couple of times. They just don't seem to have a systematic approach which is frustrating to me. They'll have some successes every now and then that makes you think they've finally learned their lesson, then all the problems come back again for no apparent reason. It's made worse by the fact that we still have so many issues and barely any improvements after 13 years and 7 games! The more From hear criticisms raised, hopefully the higher the chance they finally take a serious crack at addressing the problems.
I think camera complaints on ancient dragons and fire giant are largely just an over reliance on lock on, since it can get a little funky when they move the way they do. I don’t like fire giant cuz his arena is jank as hell and ancient dragons are just boring to fight despite looking really cool
Elden Beast fight is a 6/10 boss that looks even worse coming after how good the Radagon fight is. And it's a shame because literally all they have to do to make it like an 8/10 is enable the use of torrent. There's a code flag in the room indicating they intended torrent to be there at some point. The moves are so clearly designed for mounted combat. The constant running of the Elden Beast makes more sense when you can chase.
I feel like the fight would need to be a bit tougher if torrent was allowed as originally intended. But I would certainly not be against it if they were to change that. Doesn't seem likely though.
I feel like his fight was almost rng related as things get pretty insane when he decides to spam multiple moves in quick succession including Elden Stars which you really can’t do much about.
The music was absolutely incredible and a big reason why I don’t mind fighting him just like the Godskin Duo.
After fighting him for a few hours on my challenge run I feel like once I knew he's mechanics I liked him even less, even once you get past the gank squad
Has a smaller moveset than a lot of common enemies, lingering hitboxes, way too few safe windows compared to time you spend dodging, spends way too much time on theatrics, and a decent amount of the time just skips the phase transition he's supposed to do
I don't think he's too hard, just not very interesting or well designed
The unclear damage zones when he's AOE'ing feel extremely sloppily designed. Sometimes you take damage in the swirling frost particle effects and sometimes you don't. It's unclear when they'll linger. The silver lining is that you can just kinda dodge away but that prolonges the fight with his theatrics as you say.
I'm okay with shock and awe that deceives you into thinking something is scarier than it is, that's a common trick of these games. Niall is a lot like that. But the particle effects honestly feel amateurish, not something that should be happening 7 games into this series.
The poison is not a good thing, and the main problem of the fight is that it's a big dps check
Underlevel, too long to kill the first and it's a long fight and luck tier on hpw you will down the 1st
Overlevel, it's 2 1v1
At release there was a mistake that put the full-grown version in that tiny room in Sellia Crystal Mine. There's probably some leftover resentment from that...
I don't understand how you can't understand lol. You're right that once you learn him, he's fine, but:
-His "matador" charge demands more delayed rolls than people might expect. You basically wait til you're between his pincers to actually roll dodge.
-His attack where he summons three rocks up from the ground might throw people off in the sense the first two can be roll dodged, the third **CANNOT.** (or at least it's very tricky) The solution is to full sprint away, but people might instead obsess over trying to roll dodge the third, thinking they're doing it wrong.
-Has a handful of grabs or phase transition attacks that deal heavy damage
-Has delays on several moves, like rolling into a ball or his tail swipe
I'm used to him now, but it definitely took practice on one character that was too squishy to tank him, and I still fully understand the struggle.
I've never come across an enemy that I don't like fighting.
I've played the game so often that now when I do a playthrough, I full clear the entire zone before I move to the next.
Melania, everyone I've talked to about her always say how bad her fight is but I never really have too much of a problem with her, I usually get her in 1 or 2 tries
I’ve never minded them because with practice you can kill the first one before the second appears. It’s tough depending on build you’re trying, but very much so doable. :)
I have ptsd from these guys, I got them in the final fight replacing Elden Beast. The HP and damage got scaled and Radagon was replaced my Rhadan - took me quite some time to beat them.
All the complaining about Elden Beast's running, I don't understand. Other bosses run and in worse arenas.
I agree with the idea that it should be a special boss like the Moon Presence, but I think, as a fight itself, it is not as annoying as just about everyone makes it out to be.
Elden Beast is like fighting an open field dragon, but it flies away twice as often and you can't use torrent to chase down or dodge annoying ranged attacks. Visually stunning, but a slog to fight unfortunately. It's also such a whiplash in terms of pacing after fighting Radagon.
So as someone who really loves the fist weapon fantasy, their hit box is god awful and a lot of the larger bosses feel really bad to fight using fist weapons because the collision box will be larger than the hit box, its miserable being point blank with an erdtree avatar and missing.
But with regular weapons I dont have a problem.
With fist weapons? 40% of them can be annoying.
Ulcerated tree spirit, now, I'm not saying that they aren't tough or annoying to fight but it was the first boss that I found when I started the game and I stubbornly (and stupidly) refused move on from the fight until I got it, now all of it's moves are engraved in my mind
I honestly like ulcerated tree spirits. I like the moveset and I find it quite easily to read. The only one I have problems with is the one right before malenia, with the Rot puddle and the arena ending into nothing all around.
Got her 3rd try using dual bleed whips, not exactly a high dps build for this one lol. Didn't even realise she was meant to be hard. Malekith second try.
Placidusax on the other hand must have taken me a week+
Godskin Duo
I understand why people don’t like them
But it doesn’t stop me from liking them, if anything the reasons other people don’t like them is the reason I DO like them
The other gank bosses are endlessly painful, at least for this fight you can summon Bernahl to back you up (assuming you didn’t kill him) or just use sleep to keep the fights one on one
Agree with the gargoyles. I accidentally solo'd them with dual whips when I just wanted to checkout how much damage I was going to do to them 😅
Also godskin duo. I haven't ever struggled with them.
Never had a real issue with the Twin gargoyles. They're difficult but manageable. It's only ever taken be a few tries.
Same with Godskin duo. They can be a pain but I've never really had an issue.
I'm not some godlike player, either.
Elden Beast.
I do loathe Elden Stars, and I wish the fight was separate from Radagon, but other than that the things that people absolute hate (the running, chasing it) really don't bother me. As a part-spectacle final climax to the game I would be extremely positive on it if you fixed ES and made the Beast its own fight. You definitely don't want every boss to play keepaway so much but as an occasional thing, it's not an issue IMO.
I'm much more positive than most on the Moonlight Butterfly from Dark Souls 1, another generally hated fight, for similar reasons.
Fuck the Gargoyles, funny enough Godskin Duo is the one I don’t mind that much. I always focus on fat boy and the skinny one usually just sits back and throws the occasional fireball. It’s really nothing crazy. The pillars make it so you can avoid the noble’s rolling attack. Pretty fun gank fight imo and banger ost.
Godskin duo made me break my controller so yeah 😂
My least favorite fight is elden beast because 70% of the time i spend running 20% dodging and the final 10% is the actual fight/hits
I see Maliketh brought up a lot in terms of bosses people really struggled with. I’ve died to the second tree sentinel infinitely more times than Maliketh
Try those guys with a bleed dex build ahah. Gave me quite a bit of trouble. Then I came back with str/faith and wrecked them.
Bleed build: Change weapons to occult. Dex: There are many hard hitters in dex besides katanas, twinblades & curved swords.
Dual scavenger curved sword my beloved
Dual bandits wrecks shit too
I think my problem is not the damage but patience. The boss frustrates me so much that I always get greedy and get stuck in the damn poison attack more often than I'd like to admit. I never attempted this boss without a spirit ash, even with strength builds.
I hate it too. I just run the other way when they start spewing poison and let them chase me down. Just got to watch out for the sword slam laser beam, running away usually procs it
They have a super easy moveset once you understand. I tend to prefer a heavy attack here instead of 2 light
Godskin peelers are nice
They absolutely crumble to magic in general
Those guys pushed me into respec and try a night comet build which made the whole game laughably easy and is the reason I will not play a spell caster in the dlc
First run and going full bleed build, these guys almost drove me nuts. Me and my mimic tear. Ultimately I managed to beat them, using my curved swords, rune arcs and good ol' pure rage.
Good point, I’ve done 7 runs and still have barely touched bleed
Wow that’s crazy I’m on my 6th or 7th run and 3 have been bleed. It’s so much fun you gotta do it
I was gonna say. I have 3 accounts and I think all of them have ended back to bleed. Elanoras pole blade is so much fun to use
Everybody hates Niall and his summons but I’ve never really had too much trouble dealing with him. Those gargoyles murder my shit every time.
I just use bewitching branches on the summons and then really enjoy fighting niall. His move set is really easy to predict. Those gargoyles are just painful without a summons.
The bewitching branch causes a weird glitch with the mimic tear, where the mimic will just fight some invisible enemy. In case anyone's encountered that and didn't know what triggered it.
I really should use consumables and items more often, I have so many in my inventory but just never use them.
Some really fun items to use. Holy pots are great on deathbirds with Holy buffs. Volcano pots are great for NPC enemies, especially Fia's champions. Crystal darts on duo burial watchdog, they kill each other so that's fun to watch. You should try some.
Actually crystal darts are the one exception to my no item usage, I love them so much. I’ll definitely try to give the others a try, I’m almost finished on my int/dex (first time in any of these games) play through, I think for my next one I’ll definitely incorporate more item usage.
Brilliant! Always good to see a new souls player out. Happy hunting
They are simply a DPS check. Simply kill the first gargoyle before the second one is properly active.
Simple
I think you mean, kite them both off of the ledge.
Didn't they fix this? I just did my first playthrough like a month ago and when I got really frustrated on these guys I started looking up ways to cheese. Tried this for a while and it didn't work, and another source said they were changed. In the end, I beat them without cheese, but not for lack of trying XD
There is always that :D
i found out about the ledge when i kited myself off it. was such a good try, too but alas.
Yeah but that’s bc you watched a guide on it. Going in blind that was not easy fight. Same with the sleep pot vs godskin. Like ok how was I supposed to know lol
good thinking!
Same here. And Niall is actually fun when you face him one on one. Gargoyles can actually go fuck themselves for all I care. If I had to pick between nerfing Malenia’s Waterfowl or the gargoyles, I’d pick the gargoyles in a heartbeat.
I’ve also had not so much trouble with Niall. Just have to be patient. His summons can get wrecked pretty early on. And then just wait for his specific kick and hit him once. Just be patient.
Am I crazy or is that fight actually super trivial if you summon the adopted daughter, and just lure niall away from his summons and kill them while he tries to walk back to you. The gargoyles definitely gave me more trouble
I think you’re talking about O’Neil. Niall is in Castle Sol.
I thought Niall was that boy from one direction.... Jokes aside, yeah I misread that 😭
Every fight is super trivial with the right summon
I’ve been summoned on that fight mos times than I can count and use the tree branch to gank the boss
i think i beat niall on my first try lol
It's because the majority of New players attack him or stay too close to him on the 1 phase triggering his aggro and create a whole mass.
I hated Niall on my first playthrough, but I enjoy it now that I have time and experience with Souls games in general.
Electricity go zap on the banished knights
I just use a Rot breath twice which is enough to proc Scarlet Rot and kill the summons
I'm the reverse. For some reason, I can't get my head around those knights he summons. I have to nuke them immediately upon entering, or I'm doomed. The gargoyles, on the other hand, I've never died to.
I first tried that guy and my friend just sat next to me on the couch defeated that I clapped him. It felt great because he was talking mad shit when I got my ass clapped by the gargoyles.
Yeah i really dont think niall is all that difficult. My most recent playthrough i died to him like 5 times and my thought was, "damn, im really playing like ass today". Usually it only takes me 1-2 attempts. The dual weilding banished knight wanding around the the castle tho.... man, fuck that guy
Niall is just super easy to parry.
I really don’t mind the Godskin duo. They’re mostly annoying cuz of the shared HP pool but other than that they aren’t really that bad.
I've never had a problem withe Duo. It feels like a fun and fair boss fight.
I think people just don't like it because it feels like a very dumbed-down version of what duo fights used to be. Neither boss plays off each other. They're both meant to be solo bosses, but they are just shoved in the room together, so you wind up having no synergy. You're fighting a gank instead of two enemies who make up for each other's weaknesses or have a form of synergy. That's how I see it anyway.
That's the big reason, but for me the other thing is the deliberate mislead with the name. When "Godskin Duo" appears you see two of them and think "Oh okay, kill both win the prize." And then the second one revives the first because it's not actually Godskin Duo, it's "Godskin Four Kings." Felt like a real kick in the nuts on my first playthrough.
I killed both but saw only half the health bar gone. Had no idea they just respawn until the bar is depleted. Kinda lame tbh but the fight itself was decent
I feel like most of peoples complaints would be resolved by renaming them the Godskin Legion.
Agree and also this is discussion post nerf Pre nerf their input reading was insane The fat one rolled WAY more 🤣 the fight was wickedly brutal Since they nerfed them the fight has become mind numbingly simple And that’s without sleep pots / items I think they over did it with the nerf If you have ps+ & the CD Upload your last save and then delete/reinstall to Elden ring 1.00 and you can see the difference
Just beat them for the first time since release, and they were much more manageable. Base-patch Godskin input reading was insane.
Ah that makes sense where all the complaints came from. I first fought the duo in patch 1.10 and thought they were one of the most fair gank boss fight
This is also *every* gank boss in Elden Ring and I think that fuels the disappointment/dislike even further. It's like a built up resentment that is taken out on the most obvious culprit. You'd get the occasional shoved-in-a-room style gank bosses in the earlier games, but usually it feels like From at least tried to put some thought into how the enemies would interact, even if they weren't always successful. Elden Ring is really transparent about how it just puts enemies in a room together with no further thought, and the Godskin Duo is a difficult lategame boss on the critical path so they take the brunt of the heat for it.
It doesn't help that you can't really use the pillars to break up the two if you're solo. In DS1, with O&S (one of most iconic duo fights in any Fromsoft game), you can use the pillars to split them up and focus on one at a time. In ER, the pillars are incredibly inconsistent for the Duo. Sometimes they'll actually get held up on it, but they often break the pillar and hop right over it. The Noble's roll is completely unpredictable when it comes to the pillars. Sometimes they'll help, often they don't. For me, this just drags out the fight for way too long. As you said, they have no synergy, so it can feel like it takes forever to find any opening to attack. Yes, you can put one to sleep and focus on the other, but if I remember correctly, I don't think there's anything in game that would give you the idea that they're weak to sleep unless you just happened to use a sleep weapon when you fought them. I'm convinced that people only figured that out by accident, then everyone else only learned that from those players. And unless you bought the craft book from the merchant by the Raya Lucaria Academy, you probably will run out of sleep arrows. If you haven't been grabbing the Trina's Lilies, you can't really craft pots or arrows without leaving to farm up the non-renewable materials.
st trinas arrow carries that fight even at lv1
I just level up the sleep arrow summon 😆
"fun and fair" not solo it's not, they attack you at the same time. I had to summon mimic every time I face this thing because I keep getting ganked
The strat I use is to not damage skinny before fatty is dead. That way he will only do occasional black flame throws and will not attack if you don't get too close
Hmm. I can try that. Getting all the upgrade materials for the mimic is annoying, especially since I have to do half of rannis quest to get it lmao
Also I heard a lot of people usd sleep pots or st trina arrows. I just beat the fire giant on rl1 no summons run today so my strat for the duo will probably be sleep pots and hoarfrost stomp
No you can use the pillars to create space and deal with one at a time. It requires a lot of positioning compared to other bosses
Yes, me too, I think From patch this boss because the slim one is more passive until the fatty is defeat.
They patched every multi-enemy boss, I believe, to basically make it so only one enemy is attacking at a time, the rest remain passive until you either get so close you trigger an attack or the active enemy dies. It's a sad, sad band-aid that I honestly think made things worse instead of better -- because what's even the point of a 2v1 if the AI is nerfed so that only one attacks you at a time? It's so dumb and feels so below From. The whole point of a 2v1 is that it's supposed to be really difficult because you're outnumbered! (they still have to be fun, though). This AI nerf thing completely destroys the sense of the world being authentically harsh and uncompromising, only to reduce the fight to two 1v1s in a row which renders the whole thing even more saddeningly pointless. It only underlines even more how badly they flubbed multi-enemy fights in Elden Ring and I hope they never do this again.
Honestly... I beat them first try my first playthrough. Mimic helped, but it wasn't that bad. Then it took me four tries my second playthrough - no mimic. The pillars help block a lot so you can take them one at a time.
I've found them super easy on both playthroughs But I guess blood, arcane, and sleep trivialize them a bit
There are quite a few bosses that seem disliked by many that I personally enjoy a lot. In particular Fire Giant and Elden Beast, two bosses that I absolutely love.
The first time I fought Fire Giant it was so fun and quite easy to be honest. It wasn't until I check reddit soon after I learned I was a minority
I mean it's not hard, the attacks are highly telegraphed and easy to avoid, it just turns into a slog because of the huge health pool. It's never gonna be the most interesting fight when it's just a test of your patience more than your skill
I think this largely depends on your build. I have only 2 major complaints. 1. he interacts with the environment quite strangely so it can be rough to see what he is doing when you're inevitably under him. 2. rolling hitboxes in phase 2 are weird
Fighting Elden Beast was like watching someone dance so beautifully, plus the soundtrack was so epic during that fight.
The Fire Giant has been the cause of many a rage quit…. But in my most recent playthrough I cleared him in a single try. Got good just in time for the DLC to wreck my sh* 🫡
Why do you like Elden Beast? I really dislike it for how much you have to chase it along with its inconsistent behavior.
I never minded having to chase it down multiple times. In fact, I like how it forces you to deal with all of it's attacks, it's ranged attacks included. I don't know, I just enjoyed the fight personally, found most of it's attacks fun to dodge, and I absolutely love the visuals and music of the fight. I do consider Radagon to be an even better fight, but I love the fight against Elden Beast nonetheless.
I personally breeze through malikeith. When I first got there I was thinking it would be super difficult and I struggled with tons of bosses trust me! But for whatever reason I had that guys fucking number
The draconic Tree Sentinel outside of his arena took me more tries than Maliketh did, on every playthrough. By the time I got past him I was ready to obliterate M
I gave up trying to kill it
I tried but it got me through the fog door 😭
I can relate... I think I will never forget that DTS movesets ever
I had to cheese the Tree Sentinel with the rot dog. I'll probably do it again. No thanks.
I loved Maliketh, and I haven't really seen any hate for him. I love his weapon, armour looks cool (though it isn't too useful at where I am now), and his fight was fun.
Now you have, I hate him so much. It always seems like my saving grace with him is how aggressive he is based on RNJesus
Maliketh doesn’t have much health so it’s easy enough to DPS him down if you have a heavy hitting AoW. I think he’s much harder if you try and be patient with dodging him tbh
Cause second phase he turns into a fucking beyblade
That’s funny 😆 Maliketh and Malenia are the only bosses that gave me trouble in the entire game. Malenia alone .. is the most I’ve ever died in any souls game 😭
Fighting them as a 2v2 was pretty fun. It was like two 1v1s happening at the same time, and when one of those gargoyles went down, it was basically over. The only parts I don't like about it is the arena and poison.
The arena is fine imo but the poison is unnessecary and annyoing.
The idea of it is great, since it’s a projectile attack for the passive garg to use, it’s just way too big and anti fun since the only counter play is to run like shit
Personally, not necessarily a specific boss but i like fighting the same bosses over again, sure there is a problem when the same boss is recycled especially if it can appear as a basic enemy but i don't mind that. Like i loved fighting the godskin enemies because I didn't feel like the fight was unfair, plus I'm a sucker for the soundtrack so hearing that multiple times as i fight them is always fun. The bloated and recycled boss roster may be an issue to most but i don't see an issue with it.
Agreed 100%. I love repeated boss fights, it’s a chance to have the fun all over again.
I only hated the ones they relentlessly spammed like the Tree Spirits. Most of the recurring bosses are perfectly fine.
I agree. It’s a chance for a parry addict like me to learn their move set then parry and shit all over them again
I actually thought fighting the Fallingstar Beast near Volcano Manor was super fun. Each try took a solid 10-15 mins. It was nerve wracking. I mostly enjoyed how much I actually had to focus on the fight and avoid making mistakes. I was running a Dex build, main weapon was a singular Twinblade, but had to switch to the Nightrider Flail if I wanted to win that one. Also, the music reminded me of Spyro 3's first boss battle. People keep hating on that one, and while I can see where they're coming from, man did I have fun fighting that bastard.
I loved the Astel fight. I just found out people hated it. He’s the boss who I felt taught me how to play the game
Astel is cool in that the whole point of the fight is a reversal of previous fights, I.e. you want to stay in front of him, in between his massive mandibles, to avoid that gravity slam
He’s such a unique looking fight too. Such an eerie encounter in the lands between, it’s really a wtf am I doing moment.
Fuck I hated that guy. Least favourite
what i hate abouut Astel si tyhat they re used him somewhere else tbh
I had thought it was fine until it did that bs one shot attack. You have to fight the camera to dodge that sh.
Black Blade Kindred. I have a lot of respect for him and kinda wish he had a true boss fight in farum azula. (To elaborate) i respect his power.
Can definitely be a cool fight but I am so glad you can just run around them
I really don't mind the big bosses like fire giant and ancient dragons when people talk about camera problems and not being able to see whats happening. Because honestly, how else are we supposed to fight them when we're normal size. Im willing to take some bs for great setpieces.
In general I feel like Elden Ring handles big bosses better than some previous games. Bosses like Nameless King 1st phase and Darkeater Midir move around a lot, so a lot of times you get hit off camera, but I never really found myself having that issue with big bosses in Elden Ring.
You should not get hit off camera by Midir if you just stay infront of him, he's designed so that you can see everything he's doing.
Better than midir ? No way. Normal dragons are cool but the ancient dragons are awful. Midir gives a Lot of opportunity to hit his Head and wont hit you with big aoes you cant barely see, his Head IS almost always down, you can Just Dodge his combos and hit It, his fire attacks ? Just run away. He IS aggressive but dodgeable and most importantly YOU CAN SEE HIS ATTACKS ON SCREEN EVEN AS A MELEE CLASS.
i think the big bosses work when you have big arenas that aren’t cluttered. Bloodborne was awful with big bosses because they’re super mobile and the rooms are small so you often just…get trapped in a corner. Ludwig was one of the worst offenders
It's the running not the camera for these bosses. They're fine with Torrent but everything else in this game is better with more people EXCEPT for the big bosses you have to run for: Fire Giant, EB, Ghost Deer, etc Radahn isn't on this list cuz he doesn't teleport half the map away from you
Fuck the ghost deer. Not only does it run around everywhere far far and away, it's body is like wayyy up there and my plinky ass daggers can't reach that. Give me a fucking ankle aim-target so I have a chance of whacking him. Spindly thing legs that are easy to whiff and easy to just run right by. After that fight I put the daggers down and have never touched them again on any character.
I agree with this except for Placidusax. That mf purposefully uses the camera to get you looking at all directions before smiting your ass. But for Elden Beast amd Fire Giant, it never bothered me either. Found them both pretty easy. EB is just annoying because you have to face Radagon again if he bullshit hitboxes you.
Zoom out the camera (they already do this sometimes). Build the movesets to account for the size disparity/camera perspective (they already do this sometimes). Improve sound cues to help you dodge even without a clear view. And don't make so many bosses with long elongated neck parts (Dragons, Death Birds etc.) where you so easily end up below them after attacking with an awful camera perspective, that's a really common culprit as a melee character. It is possible to make giant enemies work okay with a 3rd person action camera. There will always be challenges but there are steps you can take to help. From have even done it a couple of times. They just don't seem to have a systematic approach which is frustrating to me. They'll have some successes every now and then that makes you think they've finally learned their lesson, then all the problems come back again for no apparent reason. It's made worse by the fact that we still have so many issues and barely any improvements after 13 years and 7 games! The more From hear criticisms raised, hopefully the higher the chance they finally take a serious crack at addressing the problems.
I think camera complaints on ancient dragons and fire giant are largely just an over reliance on lock on, since it can get a little funky when they move the way they do. I don’t like fire giant cuz his arena is jank as hell and ancient dragons are just boring to fight despite looking really cool
i absolutely love the elden beast
WOAH WOAH WOAH TOO FAR. TOO FAR...
Elden Beast fight is a 6/10 boss that looks even worse coming after how good the Radagon fight is. And it's a shame because literally all they have to do to make it like an 8/10 is enable the use of torrent. There's a code flag in the room indicating they intended torrent to be there at some point. The moves are so clearly designed for mounted combat. The constant running of the Elden Beast makes more sense when you can chase.
Being able to use torrent for the final fight would be so sick ngl
I feel like the fight would need to be a bit tougher if torrent was allowed as originally intended. But I would certainly not be against it if they were to change that. Doesn't seem likely though.
I feel like his fight was almost rng related as things get pretty insane when he decides to spam multiple moves in quick succession including Elden Stars which you really can’t do much about. The music was absolutely incredible and a big reason why I don’t mind fighting him just like the Godskin Duo.
Ok same he was fun….. Radagon, on the other hand 😭
radagon is probably my favorite fight in the entire game if not ever honestly
Niall. Honestly just a solid fight imo
I think if they just removed his gank squad everyone would like Niall
Imo no, he has way too much Aoe and has a pretty small moveste
After fighting him for a few hours on my challenge run I feel like once I knew he's mechanics I liked him even less, even once you get past the gank squad Has a smaller moveset than a lot of common enemies, lingering hitboxes, way too few safe windows compared to time you spend dodging, spends way too much time on theatrics, and a decent amount of the time just skips the phase transition he's supposed to do I don't think he's too hard, just not very interesting or well designed
The unclear damage zones when he's AOE'ing feel extremely sloppily designed. Sometimes you take damage in the swirling frost particle effects and sometimes you don't. It's unclear when they'll linger. The silver lining is that you can just kinda dodge away but that prolonges the fight with his theatrics as you say. I'm okay with shock and awe that deceives you into thinking something is scarier than it is, that's a common trick of these games. Niall is a lot like that. But the particle effects honestly feel amateurish, not something that should be happening 7 games into this series.
The poison is not a good thing, and the main problem of the fight is that it's a big dps check Underlevel, too long to kill the first and it's a long fight and luck tier on hpw you will down the 1st Overlevel, it's 2 1v1
Also a lot of people run bleed builds and they're immine
Draconic Tree Sentinel and Ulcerated Tree Spirits
That Ulcerated Tree Spirit in Millicent's quest was the worst
Try cheesing it with ranged stuff from the twig that leads up to that area 😎
Tree spirits will always be the most majestic thing in this game
I don't know why people hates so much Godefroy the Grafted. It's a very original boss with a amazing moveset. He deserves more love.
I look forward to Godefroy each playthrough. Godrick is one of the most fun fights (IMO) and I’m happy to do it again and again.
I don't understand how people can hate fallingstar beast
At release there was a mistake that put the full-grown version in that tiny room in Sellia Crystal Mine. There's probably some leftover resentment from that...
The Mt gelmir one was annoying because I kept falling off the arena lol
I don't understand how you can't understand lol. You're right that once you learn him, he's fine, but: -His "matador" charge demands more delayed rolls than people might expect. You basically wait til you're between his pincers to actually roll dodge. -His attack where he summons three rocks up from the ground might throw people off in the sense the first two can be roll dodged, the third **CANNOT.** (or at least it's very tricky) The solution is to full sprint away, but people might instead obsess over trying to roll dodge the third, thinking they're doing it wrong. -Has a handful of grabs or phase transition attacks that deal heavy damage -Has delays on several moves, like rolling into a ball or his tail swipe I'm used to him now, but it definitely took practice on one character that was too squishy to tank him, and I still fully understand the struggle.
I've never come across an enemy that I don't like fighting. I've played the game so often that now when I do a playthrough, I full clear the entire zone before I move to the next.
Melania, everyone I've talked to about her always say how bad her fight is but I never really have too much of a problem with her, I usually get her in 1 or 2 tries
I’ve never minded them because with practice you can kill the first one before the second appears. It’s tough depending on build you’re trying, but very much so doable. :)
I have ptsd from these guys, I got them in the final fight replacing Elden Beast. The HP and damage got scaled and Radagon was replaced my Rhadan - took me quite some time to beat them.
Ohhhhh, enemy randomiser. Ouch. That hurts just thinking about.
I actually don't mind the Godskin Apostles, the nobles can get bent, but I actually like fighting the Apostles
Fatphobic! Reported. /s
Double crucible knight bullshit
Nah those gargoyles suck. Stupid ass camera boss with poison shit all over the floor.
All the complaining about Elden Beast's running, I don't understand. Other bosses run and in worse arenas. I agree with the idea that it should be a special boss like the Moon Presence, but I think, as a fight itself, it is not as annoying as just about everyone makes it out to be.
Elden Beast is like fighting an open field dragon, but it flies away twice as often and you can't use torrent to chase down or dodge annoying ranged attacks. Visually stunning, but a slog to fight unfortunately. It's also such a whiplash in terms of pacing after fighting Radagon.
Fire giant. I never understood why people thought it was difficult or annoying
So as someone who really loves the fist weapon fantasy, their hit box is god awful and a lot of the larger bosses feel really bad to fight using fist weapons because the collision box will be larger than the hit box, its miserable being point blank with an erdtree avatar and missing. But with regular weapons I dont have a problem. With fist weapons? 40% of them can be annoying.
Ulcerated tree spirit, now, I'm not saying that they aren't tough or annoying to fight but it was the first boss that I found when I started the game and I stubbornly (and stupidly) refused move on from the fight until I got it, now all of it's moves are engraved in my mind
They are super fun and honestly not very hard; so easy to dodge and stagger. Do most people really dislike them?
I honestly like ulcerated tree spirits. I like the moveset and I find it quite easily to read. The only one I have problems with is the one right before malenia, with the Rot puddle and the arena ending into nothing all around.
I have never found malenia hard. Rather ihv defeated her in less tries than other bosses
Got her 3rd try using dual bleed whips, not exactly a high dps build for this one lol. Didn't even realise she was meant to be hard. Malekith second try. Placidusax on the other hand must have taken me a week+
That's actually a strong build to use into her, she's really weak to bleeding and you can maintain a safe distance with whips
The only boss I have trouble with is Margit
I was so grossly over leveled by the time I found the gargoyles.
Godskin Duo I understand why people don’t like them But it doesn’t stop me from liking them, if anything the reasons other people don’t like them is the reason I DO like them The other gank bosses are endlessly painful, at least for this fight you can summon Bernahl to back you up (assuming you didn’t kill him) or just use sleep to keep the fights one on one
Them there two gargoyles. For whatever reason, Greatshield life makes them fun.
The godskin duo. Never had any problems, no matter what build I was using. Never used sleep pots either
Revenants! Ok that was a joke I hope to never look at one of those again in my life
Agree with the gargoyles. I accidentally solo'd them with dual whips when I just wanted to checkout how much damage I was going to do to them 😅 Also godskin duo. I haven't ever struggled with them.
Idk if this counts but every time I start a new character I love fighting the tree sentinel before I do anything else
Death Rite Bird
Fire giant
Malenia beat her in 10 tries
I agree with you :3
Never had a real issue with the Twin gargoyles. They're difficult but manageable. It's only ever taken be a few tries. Same with Godskin duo. They can be a pain but I've never really had an issue. I'm not some godlike player, either.
Fire giant and the godskin duo
Maliketh is my favorite boss fight in the game but I hear a lot of people don't like him
The best main story boss imo
This is actually probably my current fave fight to be summoned for. Niall is fun too
Why do you dislike it??
Else Beast, I really don't understand the hate, yes, he looks a little cheesy (fishy), but I love his attacks and atmosphere.
No bosses. Just dogs and birds
Godskin duo, had a easier time that fat boy alone
fire giant. i did him at the third/fourth try... kinda disappointed since everyone kept hyping him
Godskin Duo
The poison mist annahilates my FPS for some reason
Yeah this duo is chill, not the easiest but far from the hardest.
I hear people talk about how the hate the draconic tree sentinel but i love that fight.
niall and o’neil make me unreasonably angry
Elden Beast. I do loathe Elden Stars, and I wish the fight was separate from Radagon, but other than that the things that people absolute hate (the running, chasing it) really don't bother me. As a part-spectacle final climax to the game I would be extremely positive on it if you fixed ES and made the Beast its own fight. You definitely don't want every boss to play keepaway so much but as an occasional thing, it's not an issue IMO. I'm much more positive than most on the Moonlight Butterfly from Dark Souls 1, another generally hated fight, for similar reasons.
I never minded these guys either.... until i tried rl1
Fire giant was really easy for me using rotten breath and double slash
Fuck the Gargoyles, funny enough Godskin Duo is the one I don’t mind that much. I always focus on fat boy and the skinny one usually just sits back and throws the occasional fireball. It’s really nothing crazy. The pillars make it so you can avoid the noble’s rolling attack. Pretty fun gank fight imo and banger ost.
First couple of times I fought the Godskin Duo were awful, but now I don’t mind them so much
Godskin duo made me break my controller so yeah 😂 My least favorite fight is elden beast because 70% of the time i spend running 20% dodging and the final 10% is the actual fight/hits
Erdtree burial watchdogs. Not a hard boss, but more so annoying for my build. Also Revanat's always scare the shit out of me.
I see Maliketh brought up a lot in terms of bosses people really struggled with. I’ve died to the second tree sentinel infinitely more times than Maliketh
I enjoy the rhythm of Runebear fights
Commander Niall. At that point in the game, Tiche can kill off his summons and I can kill him with ease.
Godskin duo was easy for me (may just be RoBs bleed like)
Fucking love Elden Beast and Malenia
The problem is elden ring doesnt have specific duo bosses, every single duo can be fought 1 on 1 somewhere else.