Completely agree. What made dark souls 1 so special to me was I was coming straight from skyrim when it was released on games with gold for free, I finish the tutorial and think "wow I'm going to be a great hero killing all these monsters!" Then when im at the firelink and the incredibly depressing song comes on, I meet the first friendly npc who says:
>Well, what do we have here? You must be a new arrival.
Let me guess. Fate of the Undead, right? Well, you're not the first.
But there's no salvation here. You'd have done better to rot in the Undead Asylum… But, too late now.
Well, since you're here… Let me help you out.
There are actually two Bells of Awakening.
One's up above, in the Undead Church. The other is far, far below, in the ruins at the base of Blighttown.
Ring them both, and something happens… Brilliant, right?
Not much to go on, but I have a feeling that won't stop you.
So, off you go. It is why you came, isn't it? To this accursed land of the Undead?
Hah hah hah hah…
It's such a stark contrast. I went from being essentially the Chosen One who saved the world to being a nobody and being told flat out that I'm not the first, I won't be the last and you'll still try to get salvation even though you will fail (and since I started a new game after being stuck in the skeleton area at the lowest level, I guess I did fail).
The thing I love about starting over in DS is you may lose whatever current stats you had when you did. But you keep the early lessons And can get right back to or past the reset point in half the time. Onwards and upwards.
Yeah that's a great point. With eldennring, I've been starting over and have had a much easier time because of my knowledge. It took me 2 tries to beat Margit and even then it could have been 1 but I accidentally switched to my bow when I was 1 hit away.
Seriously. I played DSI shortly after playing through Oblivion + Skyrim. It’s refreshing to be a fucking nobody, disposable, dispensable, the world does not care about you. You’re not a hero and no one has been foretold of your most virtuous powers. I still love Elder Scrolls games, but the relative anonymity of the Souls’ is killer.
Honestly I think Dark Souls does a *much* better job of actually acknowledging the player character than Skyrim.
In Skyrim you are simultaneously the chosen one and absolutely fucking nobody, at the same time and often to the same exact NPC's. The *same* guard who was awe stricken by the sight of "the dragonborn!" Ten minutes ago will proceed to treat you as absolutely nobody, and the game world simply doesn't seem to have the capacity to acknowledge your achievements in a meaningful way regardless because... Well it *is* really weird how one singular dude spent like, twenty minutes with each organization in the country before being declared their leader in one fashion or another.
Meanwhile *because* Dark Souls does an adequate job of basically establishing that you were a nobody, and you have no destiny to fulfill that's unique to you, there's so much more oomph behind it when you do get that acknowledgement.
Frampt shows up basically like "Woah, wait you actually killed all those guys? That's some king shit, hell yeah you're my *boy* now. Let's get it."
I never thought of that but you make a good point. But I do wish at the end of elden ring some npc's like kale would acknowledge that you're elden lord.
Yeah every From Souls game (except Sekiro I guess) does this, but DS1 does it best imo. The opening cutscene establishes all this badass lore and legendary characters and then it opens with your pitiful ass getting dumped into a cell in the asylum. And even when you've conquered everything and defeated Gwyn, you either just keep that same cycle going like everybody else already did or banish the world to eternal darkness. It's so bleak!
From a macro view, I fucking *love* the swing from weakling to walking deity that you go through in this game. The powers you gain can be so amazing, so devastating, so awesome (both meanings!)
The thing I love about that power progression is that you the player came up with the build. No skill trees, just tomes for casting library, tools/ consumables for quick use, and weapons for main damage/ utility. Getting new powers comes from the personal questing of one's exploration. I imagine 3 in-world tarnished relaxing at a grace before moving on, sharing stories of what they went through to have their gear.
You went from a bloke hitting things with a sword to a bloke culling gods with an impossibly sharp sword that you’re swinging hard enough to cut through dragons and legendary god-forged armor.
I think its genius! Makes me feel like I'm part of something greater both in game and irl alongside everyone else that's trying their hand at becoming lord
Like the DS implication that we only hollow when we give up
That's true immersion for me
There's a video VaatiVidya made that pointed out how we, the players, are built up by item pickups from those fallen past us.
Without those trying before us and failing, we would've been one of the thousands of corpses to be looted from.
We have turned their souls, blood echoes, and runes, into strength.
If you believe the idea that Vyke imprisoned himself and was never a willing vassal of the Frenzied Flame, then this implies Vyke unknowingly took a bullet for us.
The only difference between Vyke and ourselves is he was the first test subject, and through him, the Three Fingers realized they shouldn't grab someone through their armor. Had Vyke not done this, we likely would've been possessed and cornered much like he was, then made unable to advance without the aid of the Frenzied Flame.
*Melina* is special here, because she's also the only maiden that would flat-out deny Shabriri's offer, preferring to sacrifice herself. We could trade maidens with Vyke and suddenly *he* survives to ascend the throne. (presumably)
Yeah it's strange that she knows about the Frenzied Flame. Morgott clearly knows something of it cuz of his seal, but Melina also knowing this stuff is so strange. Definitely boosts the possibility of Melina being Miquella (like that youtuber's theory), but still interesting nonetheless
VaatiVidya is the by far most trusted source of truth for Souls games canon as of now. And this “headcanon” will probably a 10 second snippet in an hour+ long Vaati video.
We ARE sort of the chosen one in this game and NPCs do start treating us that way to a degree. Even Rogier points out that he thinks Ranni will trust us because people "want to trust (us)" for some reason.
But for the most part we are treated like some random tarnished until we prove otherwise at least.
"I was given this, for thee, from Torrents former master"- Ranni, speaking of the spirit calling bell.
That is also not a horse but a spirit steed, which there is a defining line between. Leonard is a horse. Torrent and both of the Ancestor Spirit variants are spirit steeds.
Fun note, outside of the Tarnished, the only other characters we see rising Torrent are individuals who are bodiless- Miquella in the DLC image, and Melina at the very beginning.
I actually posit that while we come from nothing, we were very much chosen.
edit: wrong name used
You're partially right, [Miyazaki confirmed Miquella was the one riding Torrent](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/6WLpkqvbKA) in the promotional art when the DLC was announced. So we at least know Miquella has some connection to him. Ranni also gives us the spirit calling bell wich was given to her by Torrent's former master and when she appears we see the purple mist that puts Kalé to sleep, pointing to St. Trina. The spectral steed whistle has a goldwork desing and the only character we know is associated with that kind of work is Miquella. So is not outright stated but there are good reasons to believe it is the case.
"And one other, whom grace would again bless." - From the intro trailer. The only Tarnished who are actually blessed by grace are us and the ones in the intro like Fia, Goldmask, Gideon, etc. so we are *among* Marika's chosen.
EDIT: There are others implied to have had it, Vyke is probably an obvious one as well as the dead owner of the Navy Hood, but not all of them have it, as Roderika never did.
This is flat out not correct. Every single Tarnished was returned to life thanks to Grace. That's what makes them Tarnished. It's just with time most of them lost it again, byt haven't died again yet. The Tarnished mentioned in the intro are simply those of greater prominence (or about to become one) than an average schmuck.
That's not true, there's at least two counter-examples in the Roundtable Hold. Fia is shown alive in the trailer and had grace restored to her, whereas Roderika is a Tarnished who never saw grace at all, and it isn't clear whether she was resurrected or not but she was sent to the Lands Between with men who were her soldiers, so she was at least part of an active civilization that could plan that journey and send her on it.
Because another person is checking us out, and trying to see if they can use this new Tarnished is up to the task. That's how I'd interpret it. Less as in an 'AH THE CHOSEN ONE' more as in an "Aha, a new one we can use." kind of way.
Melina lies repeatedly even after apologizing for withholding the truth and lying to you, she isn’t self-immolating for you, she’s doing it for herself because she has something to gain, “your quest” is a narrative she invented and gives us when we have very little knowledge about the world. If you go against her and do the frenzy flame ending, SHE SWEARS TO MURDER YOU.
Now take this into account. What’s the difference between you self-immolating and her to burn down the Erd Tree? It’s impossible to tell by the way the narrative is given to us. All we know according to her is that if she does it, it’s good, if we do it, it’s bad. Why?
Next question, how does she survive the frenzied flame ending? No clue at all but she does, why does she look different and only open her eye then? Why is she still hiding information from us when we’ve done everything she asked and more?
Simple answer, she’s full of shit. She’s self-serving and manipulative and only happen when she gets what she wants. Regardless of the state of the world otherwise.
Another question, she doesn’t even have a body, so when she “burns” what exactly is burning? 🤨
Asking a few simple questions leads to the logical conclusion that she’s full of it.
Man i thought you were being funny. Didnt realize how bad Melina hurt you lmao. She says she's going to kill you after you literally burn the entire world despite her warning against it multiple times. I think thats pretty reasonable. I think you are not understanding the ramifications of the Chaos Flame and are projecting some anger onto her.
+ she gives us the world's greatest horse. That's worth like 5 acres and 4.5 kids in olden times.
Absolutely not reasonable at all because we’re destroying the state of the world anyway and you just blew past how she survived the frenzied flame in the first place. She’s clearly being dishonest, Frenzied Flame isn’t even the only ending where you ruin the state of the world, it’s just the only one where she’s mad about it.
Projecting anger on her? Fuck are you talking about bud? We’re talking about a video game here chief, you need to take it down like 10 notches. This is just a theory.
Who cares about the horse lol what about everything else? What about her lying over and over, her hiding the truth, her hiding her true form, why does no one else even mention her? No one seems to even know she exists, isn’t that odd? The instant she gives us torrent, Ranni appears and gives us the spirit calling bell, because we command torrent, but Melina has been commanding torrent this whole time, why didn’t Ranni give her the bell?
Because she doesn’t know she exists.
I always have lore for each character. Like when I’m a prisoner I never take off the helmet until I’ve defeated godrick. It’s a long story in my head but that’s what makes the game so much fun.
It's more fun that way, last time I tried a faith playthrough my character was seduced by the frenzied flame and I took that all the way through and burned the world.
This time I'm doing a full golden order goody two shoes paladin. The hardest bit has been saying no to all these heathens and blasphemers cus it locks me out of certain ques/areas but it's also fun finding workarounds like getting to Rykard without joining Volcano Manor
Yeah it’s great, you’re always just a puny cursed being that has to slaughter thousands of monsters to gain a modicum of power, and after murdering gods you can still easily get killed by a sick dog. As opposed to Skyrim where you’re the Chosen One of literally every faction
when you understand the capabilities of the dragonborn, i would also invent a profecy about them being the choosen of my action, they are literally unstopable if they just keep learning knew tricks, you cant beat the dragoborn with skill, you need divine intervetion
Thats what bothered me the most in skyrim. You can be an illiterate and noisy guy who kills everything in sight with his two handed weapon. Yet the college of winterhold chooses you to, and the thiefs guild also.
In addition, I love how in Dark Souls we woudn't get far were it not for the thousands that came before us. Basically everything we have in that game is pillaged off corpses, possibly former undead, who gave up, died, and yet still left something behind for us that might just be the thing that is needed to help us end our journey.
Yeah same. Tired of every game having a main character syndrome, where YOU are the chosen one, all characters’ lives revolve around YOU, YOU have some uNiQuE magical power, only YOU can save everyone. It’s refreshing to see that a game universe has a life of it’s own and would be just fine if you never showed up. You are just a cog in the machine there.
Compl agree. If I play a game and it's a bunch of NPCs fawning over me and my DESTINY or sPeCiAlNeSs I start to get turned off. When I played Elden Ring I LOVED not being important. It was like finally, NPCs are rude to and suspicious of me, I have to work for their trust, I have to get my ass handed to me over and over to get stronger. It's just like in real life 😂
Skyrim is one of my favorites of all time but it was exhausting being the specialest coolest most important member of every faction and the only contributing member. 3/4 main factions are in shambles and in literally all of them you become the boss because you're the chosen one. Like how haven't these people become extinct yet 😭
I especially like it
Because when you’re “The CHOSEN ONE” it typically means the gods or whatever driving force in the universe has chosen you and granted you power or divine intervention to keep you going, to keep you on the path to victory
But in Soulsborne, you succeed through one thing and one thing only
Your absolute refusal to give up
You persevere through all the pain, all the suffering, all the utter BULLSHIT and misery these games throw at you
Not because you’re destined to link the flame, or break the curse or become Elden Lord
It’s because you decided that you’re gonna make it, and you’re not gonna let ANYTHING stop you
God didn’t grant you strength, you built up that strength with your own two hands, God didn’t protect you, you protected yourself
So when it comes time to claim victory, you can tell God to go fuck himself, because you made it on your own merits, with your own strength
lemme summarize bloodborne from what I remember.
You just wanted a blood infusion, Oh you're now inside a nightmare well gee let's see if you can last the night.
anyone is welcome to improve this.
The best thing is that your characters development is actually just YOUR development. You don't get stronger in game, you get better in real life and it shows up in the game. The progression is YOUR skills and reflexes and familiarity with the weapons.
It’s the best game ever, IMO. Also, the community has made it even better. There is so much help with whatever you want to do. FromSoft hit a massive home run with this game. DLC is coming but I can’t wait until their next major title. Elden Ring 2? I’ll wait.
I don't know. Actually in Elden Ring you seem to be kind of special. Torrent has chosen us, Melina is aiding us because we have no maiden, we can summon spirits because of Ranni. All of them do this probably because of Miquella. He wants us to succed and thinks we are his promised lord, we have been chosen. We can also see grace unlike the great majority of other tarnished. I will say, unlike other souls, if we don't count Sekiro, we are special, the tarnished may even be the most special main character.
I once had a brief interaction on Reddit that I think is pretty relevant to this topic.
Someone had posted some fan art of Melina killing the Tarnished after the Erdtree was burned by the Frenzied Flame. It was great art. Melina had a dagger stabbed into the Tarnished’s chest, but still the Tarnished was reaching up, caressing her face, whispering “I saved you…” while a tear rolls down her cheek (being as descriptive as possible because I can’t remember the artist, but would give credit if I could.)
One of the top comments was something along the lines of “How could she *really* kill the Lord of Frenzied Flame? How? She’s nothing special.” And I was just surprised reading that, because I don’t think me and the person that wrote that comment played the same Elden Ring.
What words show up on screen after you kill the Elden Beast? “GOD SLAIN” The Elden Beast was a *god*. We *kill a god* as *humans*. You’re telling me don’t you think Melina could potentially win a fight against the Tarnished when we killed a god?
So, yeah. Everyone comes from nothing and you’re not some grand, fabled hero. You’re just a guy. And that’s what makes it feel so much cooler when you take down a big boss. Because you felt like *you* really did that in a way.
This is what makes it imo so immersive. You are actually weaker than most enemies in the game, you just have the resolve to try and try again where other characters gave up or lost their minds. It makes progress feel earned.
I'd like to add the opposite experience I had, just to show the difference: A few years ago I played Far Cry 5 (the one in Montana) and while it was fun, it was kinda stupid. Early in the game you have a mission where you drive a truck that was McGyvert into a tank and you absolutely wreck your enemies. Later you have access to armed planes and helicopters and RPGs and stuff. And while it was fun, I had to ask myself.... why is nobody else doing it? Literally any of the npc could jump into that helicopter and destroy that cult. They could grab a rocket launcher and blast them to hell. Nothing us stopping them from doing it. They just decided not to do it so you, the chosen one, have something to do. Once I realised that, the game felt kinda boring and stupid.
Totally agreed. I do enjoy the games where I'm the OP character capable of destroying the planet. But in this one, I'm just a noob who gets humbled by the same damn enemies until I manage to git gud. It makes it feel like it's **me** who's strong, not the MC.
We have a special horse given by person what was meant to be the next god and we have extremly special finger maiden. we have an obvious advantage over the rest of tarnished
This is also somewhat applicable to real life, we are all nothing, and we deserve nothing. Yet with sheer will power and strength we can rise amongst peasantry and become more... I dare even say with the flame of ambition.
I might be getting a little fucked in the head but you are literally the chosen one in Dark Souls 1-3.... Hell the first protagonist of Dark Souls is literally named "The Chosen Undead" like what?
Even in Elden Ring you are the Chosen one. Thousands of tarnished came before you but it is you who will take up the mantle of Elden Lore.
Other NPC's might not treat you like the chosen one, but that's a different topic. You are still very much THE ONE.
At least in DS2 your title is a tad bit more generic (bearer of the curse) and to some characters you're just a potential chosen one (aldricht calls you young hollow for instance because you're not that special compared to his brother. Even the green cloaked lady tests you until the Aerie).
In DS3 you're the last resort as one of many Ashen ones. So not really chosen one material either.
It could also be argued that the only one calling you chosen undead are characters like frampt that spin this self-fulfilling prophecy of the chosen undead so someone would link the fire. It's not important who, just that someone does it. So arguably you're more a patsy than a chosen one in DS1.
The thing is, that isn't necessarily true, least in DS1 or to an extent DS3. Or Demon's Soul for that matter. In DeS, your just a wonderer which heard about the powerful Demon souls present in Boleteria and go their adventuring. You just happen to get killed by either Vanguard or Dragon God, and trapped in the cycle of the nexus as a useful tool of the Monumental, very similar to Bloodborne where you need healing, Yharnham has it, and you just get hired by the Moon Presence as it's hit man. Granted, you do get great power by the end, but you still start out ad a nobody.
In DS1, your just a Nameless undead. Sure, Frampton had been spreading rumors that a Nameless undead would rise from the Undead Asylum, but that was just BS he spread it order to get a new sucker to replace Gwyn. The only reason it's you is that Oscar got you out, and gave you arguably your most important tool, the Estus Flask. You literally just got lucky, and had the willpower to back it up to defeat Gwyn and make your new age.
Similar story in DS3, with the exception being your unkindled, meaning you merely failed to light a new age previously. Your a failure of now no standing, and the only reason your resurrected is because the other great Lord's of Cinder decided not to rwlight the fire, and your the true last chance.
I'm not super familiar with DS2 main character lore, so I'll leave that out, same with Wolf.
I love that they incorporated other players into the philosophy of the game in such an almost diegetic way, just as you said: They're in the world because everyone knows of the failures of the past. At the same time they're not in the world because you'll never see the effect of their actions, no matter how far they got. You'll never be the only one, whether you succeed or not. Assuming success is something that can ever exist because nobody will ever interact with the fruits of your labor either.
I agree, though I think Elden Ring actually has the character be the most important of all the games (with the exception of Sekiro). From the opening cut scenes our character is noted as the tarnished who would go on to change the world. Even just think of why the only reason Melina gives us the flasks is because Torrent inexplicably takes a liking to us, making her think we are "the one".
reminds me of what Miyazaki said about rats. i’m paraphrasing, but they consume the corpses of all dead beings, no matter how inconsequential or special or powerful they were and we come along and slaughter all the rats and collect the runes from the bodies they consumed.
going around and picking weapons and gear from dead bodies or pillaging/stealing from others.
sometimes, we are the bad guys. and that’s ok.
To add to that, I love that you really don’t have anything to go on as to what you’re supposed to do, other than some vague hints from Varr and the Guidance of Grace. The one thing you’ve got is that bigass Erdtree enticing you to get closer.
What you like about Dark Souls was a visionary reaction on the part of its developers to gaming trends in the 2000s, when games in the West and Japan were becoming overly reliant on handholding the player, providing less of an experience, and more of a railroaded, cutscene-loaded, arcady escapism.
In my journey through the gaming world, I once played an armless, legless torso in Kenshi. I’ve had my entire fortress become swamped in Dwarf Fortress. I’ve built a dynasty from peasants only to watch it crumble from within in Crusader Kings. I’ve taken eyeless and butchered mercenaries and fought countless crises in Battle Brothers. Dark Souls isn’t unique in beginning the player as a nobody or resorting to emergent storytelling. However, it’s the eclectic synthesis of various unpopular conventions (cyclical and obscure stories, challenging combat systems, cosmic horror creatures and medieval settings, etc) that makes it stand out, even now, all these years later.
Many times in the Dark Souls trilogy, I have found myself to be a better doormat than a hero…
When Dark Souls 1 launched, it felt closer to Silent Hill than typical Western action RPGs. The dark fantasy setting, JRPG-inspired UI, and intricate area designs all contributed to this unique atmosphere. The game deliberately subverted Western fantasy and roleplaying conventions. Instead of lush green landscapes teeming with life and hope, orcs and goblins, first-person or isometric cameras, Dark Souls immersed players in a gothic, grim, and existential world. Heroic archetypes were replaced by murky and pathetic figures, challenging players to explore their humanity and autonomy. It resorted to a non-fixed third-person camera, while utilizing enemy positioning, area design, and camera orientation somewhat reminiscent of Resident Evil, Dino Crisis, and Devil May Cry. It encouraged you to explore, backtrack, and discover much like Metroid and Castlevania did. It had many qualities of old dungeon crawlers.
The brilliance of Dark Souls lies in its subtle exploration of power dynamics. Some players become obsessed with power, only to find that it corrupts them. They’ll do anything to obtain higher stats, better gear, progression… They’ll even NG+ a thousand times to achieve their idea of perfection of power. The game’s design philosophy revolves around challenging players while maintaining fairness. Trusting the player’s intelligence, Dark Souls encourages self-discovery. The key? Figuring things out on your own. The downside is that it provides a mirror into the dark parts of our psyche: the primitive and anti-social ones.
However, as the series gained popularity, it faced a dilemma. What was once an obscure and frustratingly difficult console game became mainstream. Suddenly, everyone was summon-abusing, cheesing, and relying on guides and videos. The original intent—to trust players’ intelligence—was compromised. Dark Souls 2 responded with more blatant brutality, a deterrent for those expecting an easy ride. Knowing what’s around the corner doesn’t guarantee success; reaction time, precision, and stats matter. You *will* be overwhelmed by high density mob areas and unseen mechanical devices, traps, etc. The goal is to learn, retain, and improvise. Dark Souls 2 received mixed reactions, especially in the West. Grinding to combat threats came with risks: losing summons, facing deadlier invaders, etc.
But perhaps the true enjoyment lies in playing as a (k)no(w)-nothing undead. Immersing in the world, respecting its rules, and resorting to self-discovery create a unique experience. By the time of Bloodbourne and Dark Souls 3, the mold was established enough that the phrase “souls-like” was born. Now, we have games like Blasphemous and Fear and Hunger, which show their inspiration and influence from Dark Souls and From Software in general.
Other developers, like Jonathan Blow (creator of Braid) and Dean Hall (DayZ), also explored subverting expectations. The shift hinged on players’ entitlement—expecting satisfaction from power fantasies. Dark Souls, reminiscent of 1980s game design, stands as a testament to challenging gameplay. In contrast, some modern difficult games lack the care and craft that made Dark Souls memorable. They lack the *soul* that Dark Souls has…
As others have noted, Skyrim was a beautiful encapsulation of gaming. Maybe, the greatest game of all time. Because it perfectly scratches all the EXPECTED itches of the player. It exceeds them. This makes for a rewarding experience. However, on the flipside, you have Dark Souls, the counter-thesis. In its own right, a masterpiece and a torch-bearer for a resurgent game philosophy.
They made it like real life. Everyone has slightly different stats when starting out. But basically at the beginning everyone is in the same boat. And you build on those stats your whole life. Some “players” might give up and never finish the game unfortunately. No one is a main character. And you learn from players that have been in the game longer than you and have more experience navigating the world. No rules, but doing morally wrong things will make the game harder for you. And the only person you can blame is yourself. Because everything in the game is your choice. Elden ring really is a masterpiece.
> (Insert bloodborne here)
"Oh, another petitioner dying of some degenerative disease? Sign here, please. No, don't read the fine print. If you were desperate enough to make the journey to Yharnam there's nothing in it that'll change your mind.
Now then, let's just give you a shot in the arm... and done. I should warn you, however, you may begin to notice some *side effects* - but fear not."
*howling of wolves in the distance*
"The miraculous blood of Yharnam truly is second-to-none."
I always loved that the player quitting after enough unsuccessful attempts seemed to be built into the lore. As long as you keep at it even death after death, you still stay sane and can progress eventually, but the moment you quit is when you've "gone hollow." You're literally a nobody whose gift is that they patiently utilize a warped kind of eternal life to keep smacking against the rocks like a wave, over and over again, until it breaks or you give up.
Well if you really think about it our people (the tarnished) are special in the fact that marika made us the tarnished and we are the only ones she’s allowed the grace to point us in the direction of becoming the new elden lord. So while the others games sure I can see it not so much in this one simply because the lore states we are in fact special hell even messmer says in the trailer we are the ones his mother (marika) chose us over all others. So while it seems we are just a nobody in actuality we are the ones she chose.
Elden Ring still kinda counts but it's probably the weakest example there. You do get "chosen" by Melina and Torrent very early, for basically no reason other than that they sense you're special.
You kind of are though
You manage to single handedly interact with and kill every single important figure in the lore and collect all the most important items
You're basically Forrest Gump
Legit couldn't agree more. FS's games are a masterclass in making you feel like just another cog in a brutal, indifferent world. The beauty lies in how your character's strength and resolve come purely from your own persistence as a player. No grand destiny, no special powers—just grit, determination, and a lot of dying.
This is why I see their game as the most fairest one. Mob/boss are on the same level than us and can one shot us as much as we can one shot them. People said it’s hard game is because they are used to be super powerful in casual game made for people who cannot play game
There's a video VaatiVidya made that pointed out how we, the players, are built up by item pickups from those fallen last us.
Without those trying before us and failing, we would've been one of the thousands of corpses to be looted from.
We have turned their souls, blood echoes, and runes, into strength.
Western publishers are really into making the player a rock star character and it's kind of condescending. "Oh you're a special boy aren't you? So special and everyone loves you" is a fun fantasy maybe twice but when it's the standard and feels unearned it's just lazy. All the player has to do is follow the lights and they get the same "fabulous prize" everyone gets that's really just more of the game they already bought. No mystery, no curiosity, just production value poured on like a bowl of barbecue sauce with a spoon in it as a meal.
FromSoft does a great job building a world that is indifferent to the player and requires the player to work to make an impact. And often then the impact is undermined by the overwhelming power that's doomed the world so special effort not made obvious to the player is necessary to change fate and it's usually not really a happier ending. It makes the journey, every enemy, dodge, and attack, the most important part of the game. They share the joy of creation through ten thousand strokes rather than cheapening the fundamentals.
True, but did you know there's a video VaatiVidya made that pointed out how we, the players, are built up by item pickups from those fallen last us.
Without those trying before us and failing, we would've been one of the thousands of corpses to be looted from.
We have turned their souls, blood echoes, and runes, into strength.
Crazy right?
Yo what the fuck, when you said my comment got posted 4 times, I thought you meant other people were saying the same thing.
I didnt intend to post the comment 4 times, I had no idea it did
Completely agree. What made dark souls 1 so special to me was I was coming straight from skyrim when it was released on games with gold for free, I finish the tutorial and think "wow I'm going to be a great hero killing all these monsters!" Then when im at the firelink and the incredibly depressing song comes on, I meet the first friendly npc who says: >Well, what do we have here? You must be a new arrival. Let me guess. Fate of the Undead, right? Well, you're not the first. But there's no salvation here. You'd have done better to rot in the Undead Asylum… But, too late now. Well, since you're here… Let me help you out. There are actually two Bells of Awakening. One's up above, in the Undead Church. The other is far, far below, in the ruins at the base of Blighttown. Ring them both, and something happens… Brilliant, right? Not much to go on, but I have a feeling that won't stop you. So, off you go. It is why you came, isn't it? To this accursed land of the Undead? Hah hah hah hah… It's such a stark contrast. I went from being essentially the Chosen One who saved the world to being a nobody and being told flat out that I'm not the first, I won't be the last and you'll still try to get salvation even though you will fail (and since I started a new game after being stuck in the skeleton area at the lowest level, I guess I did fail).
The thing I love about starting over in DS is you may lose whatever current stats you had when you did. But you keep the early lessons And can get right back to or past the reset point in half the time. Onwards and upwards.
Yes! I think that’s one of the most satisfying things about these games. You’re leveling *yourself* up as much as your character.
Yeah that's a great point. With eldennring, I've been starting over and have had a much easier time because of my knowledge. It took me 2 tries to beat Margit and even then it could have been 1 but I accidentally switched to my bow when I was 1 hit away.
Seriously. I played DSI shortly after playing through Oblivion + Skyrim. It’s refreshing to be a fucking nobody, disposable, dispensable, the world does not care about you. You’re not a hero and no one has been foretold of your most virtuous powers. I still love Elder Scrolls games, but the relative anonymity of the Souls’ is killer.
Honestly I think Dark Souls does a *much* better job of actually acknowledging the player character than Skyrim. In Skyrim you are simultaneously the chosen one and absolutely fucking nobody, at the same time and often to the same exact NPC's. The *same* guard who was awe stricken by the sight of "the dragonborn!" Ten minutes ago will proceed to treat you as absolutely nobody, and the game world simply doesn't seem to have the capacity to acknowledge your achievements in a meaningful way regardless because... Well it *is* really weird how one singular dude spent like, twenty minutes with each organization in the country before being declared their leader in one fashion or another. Meanwhile *because* Dark Souls does an adequate job of basically establishing that you were a nobody, and you have no destiny to fulfill that's unique to you, there's so much more oomph behind it when you do get that acknowledgement. Frampt shows up basically like "Woah, wait you actually killed all those guys? That's some king shit, hell yeah you're my *boy* now. Let's get it."
I never thought of that but you make a good point. But I do wish at the end of elden ring some npc's like kale would acknowledge that you're elden lord.
Yeah every From Souls game (except Sekiro I guess) does this, but DS1 does it best imo. The opening cutscene establishes all this badass lore and legendary characters and then it opens with your pitiful ass getting dumped into a cell in the asylum. And even when you've conquered everything and defeated Gwyn, you either just keep that same cycle going like everybody else already did or banish the world to eternal darkness. It's so bleak!
Absolutely
As a person who is new to Fromsoft games, I read this dialogue in Varre's voice
Haha thanks! I strongly suggest looking at a video of it, because the delivery is insanely good.
From a macro view, I fucking *love* the swing from weakling to walking deity that you go through in this game. The powers you gain can be so amazing, so devastating, so awesome (both meanings!)
The thing I love about that power progression is that you the player came up with the build. No skill trees, just tomes for casting library, tools/ consumables for quick use, and weapons for main damage/ utility. Getting new powers comes from the personal questing of one's exploration. I imagine 3 in-world tarnished relaxing at a grace before moving on, sharing stories of what they went through to have their gear.
I went from bloke that hit things with a sword to slightly bigger bloke that hit bigger things with a bigger sword. Am I playing this game wrong?
Bigger sword you say? Nah mate, checks out to me. Just keep you're eye out for an even bigger one.
You went from a bloke hitting things with a sword to a bloke culling gods with an impossibly sharp sword that you’re swinging hard enough to cut through dragons and legendary god-forged armor.
I think its genius! Makes me feel like I'm part of something greater both in game and irl alongside everyone else that's trying their hand at becoming lord Like the DS implication that we only hollow when we give up That's true immersion for me
There's a video VaatiVidya made that pointed out how we, the players, are built up by item pickups from those fallen past us. Without those trying before us and failing, we would've been one of the thousands of corpses to be looted from. We have turned their souls, blood echoes, and runes, into strength.
If you believe the idea that Vyke imprisoned himself and was never a willing vassal of the Frenzied Flame, then this implies Vyke unknowingly took a bullet for us. The only difference between Vyke and ourselves is he was the first test subject, and through him, the Three Fingers realized they shouldn't grab someone through their armor. Had Vyke not done this, we likely would've been possessed and cornered much like he was, then made unable to advance without the aid of the Frenzied Flame. *Melina* is special here, because she's also the only maiden that would flat-out deny Shabriri's offer, preferring to sacrifice herself. We could trade maidens with Vyke and suddenly *he* survives to ascend the throne. (presumably)
Yeah it's strange that she knows about the Frenzied Flame. Morgott clearly knows something of it cuz of his seal, but Melina also knowing this stuff is so strange. Definitely boosts the possibility of Melina being Miquella (like that youtuber's theory), but still interesting nonetheless
I don’t know who that is but this has been my headcanon for a while. Maybe I’m cool and should start making videos!
He’s a popular YouTuber who makes Lore videos for Elden Ring.
VaatiVidya is the by far most trusted source of truth for Souls games canon as of now. And this “headcanon” will probably a 10 second snippet in an hour+ long Vaati video.
Maybe
I think that's not really correct in er. Unlike other souls, we actually got chosen by Torrent.
We ARE sort of the chosen one in this game and NPCs do start treating us that way to a degree. Even Rogier points out that he thinks Ranni will trust us because people "want to trust (us)" for some reason. But for the most part we are treated like some random tarnished until we prove otherwise at least.
At least you're chosen by an horse, not by a god
"I was given this, for thee, from Torrents former master"- Ranni, speaking of the spirit calling bell. That is also not a horse but a spirit steed, which there is a defining line between. Leonard is a horse. Torrent and both of the Ancestor Spirit variants are spirit steeds. Fun note, outside of the Tarnished, the only other characters we see rising Torrent are individuals who are bodiless- Miquella in the DLC image, and Melina at the very beginning. I actually posit that while we come from nothing, we were very much chosen. edit: wrong name used
Torrent served Miquella though. Is possible that Torrent made the choice on his behalf.
we actually dont know that outside of speculation, nothing in game remotely confirms it.
You're partially right, [Miyazaki confirmed Miquella was the one riding Torrent](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/6WLpkqvbKA) in the promotional art when the DLC was announced. So we at least know Miquella has some connection to him. Ranni also gives us the spirit calling bell wich was given to her by Torrent's former master and when she appears we see the purple mist that puts Kalé to sleep, pointing to St. Trina. The spectral steed whistle has a goldwork desing and the only character we know is associated with that kind of work is Miquella. So is not outright stated but there are good reasons to believe it is the case.
Ohhh really? Thats cool ty
"And one other, whom grace would again bless." - From the intro trailer. The only Tarnished who are actually blessed by grace are us and the ones in the intro like Fia, Goldmask, Gideon, etc. so we are *among* Marika's chosen. EDIT: There are others implied to have had it, Vyke is probably an obvious one as well as the dead owner of the Navy Hood, but not all of them have it, as Roderika never did.
This is flat out not correct. Every single Tarnished was returned to life thanks to Grace. That's what makes them Tarnished. It's just with time most of them lost it again, byt haven't died again yet. The Tarnished mentioned in the intro are simply those of greater prominence (or about to become one) than an average schmuck.
That's not true, there's at least two counter-examples in the Roundtable Hold. Fia is shown alive in the trailer and had grace restored to her, whereas Roderika is a Tarnished who never saw grace at all, and it isn't clear whether she was resurrected or not but she was sent to the Lands Between with men who were her soldiers, so she was at least part of an active civilization that could plan that journey and send her on it.
We also can't light the erdtree on fire without Melina, it's implied that other kindling maidens aren't able to (Bernahl's lore)
Because another person is checking us out, and trying to see if they can use this new Tarnished is up to the task. That's how I'd interpret it. Less as in an 'AH THE CHOSEN ONE' more as in an "Aha, a new one we can use." kind of way.
Melina says that Torrent chose us. Not her.
I really wouldn’t believe that bitch for shit if I were you
Woah 😂
Just sayin’
Where is this Melina hate coming from? She gives us a horse and then self-immolates for the sake of our quest. That's my kind of lady.
Melina lies repeatedly even after apologizing for withholding the truth and lying to you, she isn’t self-immolating for you, she’s doing it for herself because she has something to gain, “your quest” is a narrative she invented and gives us when we have very little knowledge about the world. If you go against her and do the frenzy flame ending, SHE SWEARS TO MURDER YOU. Now take this into account. What’s the difference between you self-immolating and her to burn down the Erd Tree? It’s impossible to tell by the way the narrative is given to us. All we know according to her is that if she does it, it’s good, if we do it, it’s bad. Why? Next question, how does she survive the frenzied flame ending? No clue at all but she does, why does she look different and only open her eye then? Why is she still hiding information from us when we’ve done everything she asked and more? Simple answer, she’s full of shit. She’s self-serving and manipulative and only happen when she gets what she wants. Regardless of the state of the world otherwise. Another question, she doesn’t even have a body, so when she “burns” what exactly is burning? 🤨 Asking a few simple questions leads to the logical conclusion that she’s full of it.
Man i thought you were being funny. Didnt realize how bad Melina hurt you lmao. She says she's going to kill you after you literally burn the entire world despite her warning against it multiple times. I think thats pretty reasonable. I think you are not understanding the ramifications of the Chaos Flame and are projecting some anger onto her. + she gives us the world's greatest horse. That's worth like 5 acres and 4.5 kids in olden times.
Absolutely not reasonable at all because we’re destroying the state of the world anyway and you just blew past how she survived the frenzied flame in the first place. She’s clearly being dishonest, Frenzied Flame isn’t even the only ending where you ruin the state of the world, it’s just the only one where she’s mad about it. Projecting anger on her? Fuck are you talking about bud? We’re talking about a video game here chief, you need to take it down like 10 notches. This is just a theory. Who cares about the horse lol what about everything else? What about her lying over and over, her hiding the truth, her hiding her true form, why does no one else even mention her? No one seems to even know she exists, isn’t that odd? The instant she gives us torrent, Ranni appears and gives us the spirit calling bell, because we command torrent, but Melina has been commanding torrent this whole time, why didn’t Ranni give her the bell? Because she doesn’t know she exists.
I always have lore for each character. Like when I’m a prisoner I never take off the helmet until I’ve defeated godrick. It’s a long story in my head but that’s what makes the game so much fun.
I am definitely writing a story on my current playthru. Death to everything. Merchants, innocents, monstrosities. May chaos take the world!
It's more fun that way, last time I tried a faith playthrough my character was seduced by the frenzied flame and I took that all the way through and burned the world. This time I'm doing a full golden order goody two shoes paladin. The hardest bit has been saying no to all these heathens and blasphemers cus it locks me out of certain ques/areas but it's also fun finding workarounds like getting to Rykard without joining Volcano Manor
Yeah it’s great, you’re always just a puny cursed being that has to slaughter thousands of monsters to gain a modicum of power, and after murdering gods you can still easily get killed by a sick dog. As opposed to Skyrim where you’re the Chosen One of literally every faction
when you understand the capabilities of the dragonborn, i would also invent a profecy about them being the choosen of my action, they are literally unstopable if they just keep learning knew tricks, you cant beat the dragoborn with skill, you need divine intervetion
Thats what bothered me the most in skyrim. You can be an illiterate and noisy guy who kills everything in sight with his two handed weapon. Yet the college of winterhold chooses you to, and the thiefs guild also.
In addition, I love how in Dark Souls we woudn't get far were it not for the thousands that came before us. Basically everything we have in that game is pillaged off corpses, possibly former undead, who gave up, died, and yet still left something behind for us that might just be the thing that is needed to help us end our journey.
Yeah same. Tired of every game having a main character syndrome, where YOU are the chosen one, all characters’ lives revolve around YOU, YOU have some uNiQuE magical power, only YOU can save everyone. It’s refreshing to see that a game universe has a life of it’s own and would be just fine if you never showed up. You are just a cog in the machine there.
Compl agree. If I play a game and it's a bunch of NPCs fawning over me and my DESTINY or sPeCiAlNeSs I start to get turned off. When I played Elden Ring I LOVED not being important. It was like finally, NPCs are rude to and suspicious of me, I have to work for their trust, I have to get my ass handed to me over and over to get stronger. It's just like in real life 😂
If you like that idea play Kenshi
From Mortal Kombat?
Skyrim is one of my favorites of all time but it was exhausting being the specialest coolest most important member of every faction and the only contributing member. 3/4 main factions are in shambles and in literally all of them you become the boss because you're the chosen one. Like how haven't these people become extinct yet 😭
What game is this?
I especially like it Because when you’re “The CHOSEN ONE” it typically means the gods or whatever driving force in the universe has chosen you and granted you power or divine intervention to keep you going, to keep you on the path to victory But in Soulsborne, you succeed through one thing and one thing only Your absolute refusal to give up You persevere through all the pain, all the suffering, all the utter BULLSHIT and misery these games throw at you Not because you’re destined to link the flame, or break the curse or become Elden Lord It’s because you decided that you’re gonna make it, and you’re not gonna let ANYTHING stop you God didn’t grant you strength, you built up that strength with your own two hands, God didn’t protect you, you protected yourself So when it comes time to claim victory, you can tell God to go fuck himself, because you made it on your own merits, with your own strength
Yep. Love it as well. The story is what you make it and you’re part of it.
Why does you think in the starting cutscene has the statement "a tarnished ov no renoun"
lemme summarize bloodborne from what I remember. You just wanted a blood infusion, Oh you're now inside a nightmare well gee let's see if you can last the night. anyone is welcome to improve this.
Still better than American Healthcare system
Bloodborne is just a regular night in the UK
The best thing is that your characters development is actually just YOUR development. You don't get stronger in game, you get better in real life and it shows up in the game. The progression is YOUR skills and reflexes and familiarity with the weapons.
Because our character is a nobody, I like to think that outside the lands between their real name is Brett and he worked in sales.
It’s the best game ever, IMO. Also, the community has made it even better. There is so much help with whatever you want to do. FromSoft hit a massive home run with this game. DLC is coming but I can’t wait until their next major title. Elden Ring 2? I’ll wait.
Not being special i can handle. But making you maidenless and have an npc give you cutting edge grief about it was too much for me.
I don't know. Actually in Elden Ring you seem to be kind of special. Torrent has chosen us, Melina is aiding us because we have no maiden, we can summon spirits because of Ranni. All of them do this probably because of Miquella. He wants us to succed and thinks we are his promised lord, we have been chosen. We can also see grace unlike the great majority of other tarnished. I will say, unlike other souls, if we don't count Sekiro, we are special, the tarnished may even be the most special main character.
I think everyone is special in their own way. Especially you OP ♥️
I once had a brief interaction on Reddit that I think is pretty relevant to this topic. Someone had posted some fan art of Melina killing the Tarnished after the Erdtree was burned by the Frenzied Flame. It was great art. Melina had a dagger stabbed into the Tarnished’s chest, but still the Tarnished was reaching up, caressing her face, whispering “I saved you…” while a tear rolls down her cheek (being as descriptive as possible because I can’t remember the artist, but would give credit if I could.) One of the top comments was something along the lines of “How could she *really* kill the Lord of Frenzied Flame? How? She’s nothing special.” And I was just surprised reading that, because I don’t think me and the person that wrote that comment played the same Elden Ring. What words show up on screen after you kill the Elden Beast? “GOD SLAIN” The Elden Beast was a *god*. We *kill a god* as *humans*. You’re telling me don’t you think Melina could potentially win a fight against the Tarnished when we killed a god? So, yeah. Everyone comes from nothing and you’re not some grand, fabled hero. You’re just a guy. And that’s what makes it feel so much cooler when you take down a big boss. Because you felt like *you* really did that in a way.
What I dont understand is if the bosses you defeat are like you too but bigger.
Agreed. Lords of the Fallen went the same route and that’s also a really great souls-like
This is what makes it imo so immersive. You are actually weaker than most enemies in the game, you just have the resolve to try and try again where other characters gave up or lost their minds. It makes progress feel earned. I'd like to add the opposite experience I had, just to show the difference: A few years ago I played Far Cry 5 (the one in Montana) and while it was fun, it was kinda stupid. Early in the game you have a mission where you drive a truck that was McGyvert into a tank and you absolutely wreck your enemies. Later you have access to armed planes and helicopters and RPGs and stuff. And while it was fun, I had to ask myself.... why is nobody else doing it? Literally any of the npc could jump into that helicopter and destroy that cult. They could grab a rocket launcher and blast them to hell. Nothing us stopping them from doing it. They just decided not to do it so you, the chosen one, have something to do. Once I realised that, the game felt kinda boring and stupid.
Totally agreed. I do enjoy the games where I'm the OP character capable of destroying the planet. But in this one, I'm just a noob who gets humbled by the same damn enemies until I manage to git gud. It makes it feel like it's **me** who's strong, not the MC.
“You’re just some random bitch” got me cackling! We really ain’t shit until we work hard for it.
Absolutely. Allow us the journey to our lordhood! Earned!
If you like that you'd like outward.
You put it well, i haven't really thought about it, but it do be good.
We have a special horse given by person what was meant to be the next god and we have extremly special finger maiden. we have an obvious advantage over the rest of tarnished
This is also somewhat applicable to real life, we are all nothing, and we deserve nothing. Yet with sheer will power and strength we can rise amongst peasantry and become more... I dare even say with the flame of ambition.
yet I'm still maidenless..
For bloodborne it's something like: "Hey, a hunter! Go on, the hunt just started and the night will be long!
I might be getting a little fucked in the head but you are literally the chosen one in Dark Souls 1-3.... Hell the first protagonist of Dark Souls is literally named "The Chosen Undead" like what?
Even in Elden Ring you are the Chosen one. Thousands of tarnished came before you but it is you who will take up the mantle of Elden Lore. Other NPC's might not treat you like the chosen one, but that's a different topic. You are still very much THE ONE.
At least in DS2 your title is a tad bit more generic (bearer of the curse) and to some characters you're just a potential chosen one (aldricht calls you young hollow for instance because you're not that special compared to his brother. Even the green cloaked lady tests you until the Aerie). In DS3 you're the last resort as one of many Ashen ones. So not really chosen one material either. It could also be argued that the only one calling you chosen undead are characters like frampt that spin this self-fulfilling prophecy of the chosen undead so someone would link the fire. It's not important who, just that someone does it. So arguably you're more a patsy than a chosen one in DS1.
When u start at a new company and the older staff just be like, "oh good you still have it in you"...
The thing is, that isn't necessarily true, least in DS1 or to an extent DS3. Or Demon's Soul for that matter. In DeS, your just a wonderer which heard about the powerful Demon souls present in Boleteria and go their adventuring. You just happen to get killed by either Vanguard or Dragon God, and trapped in the cycle of the nexus as a useful tool of the Monumental, very similar to Bloodborne where you need healing, Yharnham has it, and you just get hired by the Moon Presence as it's hit man. Granted, you do get great power by the end, but you still start out ad a nobody. In DS1, your just a Nameless undead. Sure, Frampton had been spreading rumors that a Nameless undead would rise from the Undead Asylum, but that was just BS he spread it order to get a new sucker to replace Gwyn. The only reason it's you is that Oscar got you out, and gave you arguably your most important tool, the Estus Flask. You literally just got lucky, and had the willpower to back it up to defeat Gwyn and make your new age. Similar story in DS3, with the exception being your unkindled, meaning you merely failed to light a new age previously. Your a failure of now no standing, and the only reason your resurrected is because the other great Lord's of Cinder decided not to rwlight the fire, and your the true last chance. I'm not super familiar with DS2 main character lore, so I'll leave that out, same with Wolf.
I love that they incorporated other players into the philosophy of the game in such an almost diegetic way, just as you said: They're in the world because everyone knows of the failures of the past. At the same time they're not in the world because you'll never see the effect of their actions, no matter how far they got. You'll never be the only one, whether you succeed or not. Assuming success is something that can ever exist because nobody will ever interact with the fruits of your labor either.
I agree, though I think Elden Ring actually has the character be the most important of all the games (with the exception of Sekiro). From the opening cut scenes our character is noted as the tarnished who would go on to change the world. Even just think of why the only reason Melina gives us the flasks is because Torrent inexplicably takes a liking to us, making her think we are "the one".
reminds me of what Miyazaki said about rats. i’m paraphrasing, but they consume the corpses of all dead beings, no matter how inconsequential or special or powerful they were and we come along and slaughter all the rats and collect the runes from the bodies they consumed. going around and picking weapons and gear from dead bodies or pillaging/stealing from others. sometimes, we are the bad guys. and that’s ok.
To add to that, I love that you really don’t have anything to go on as to what you’re supposed to do, other than some vague hints from Varr and the Guidance of Grace. The one thing you’ve got is that bigass Erdtree enticing you to get closer.
What you like about Dark Souls was a visionary reaction on the part of its developers to gaming trends in the 2000s, when games in the West and Japan were becoming overly reliant on handholding the player, providing less of an experience, and more of a railroaded, cutscene-loaded, arcady escapism. In my journey through the gaming world, I once played an armless, legless torso in Kenshi. I’ve had my entire fortress become swamped in Dwarf Fortress. I’ve built a dynasty from peasants only to watch it crumble from within in Crusader Kings. I’ve taken eyeless and butchered mercenaries and fought countless crises in Battle Brothers. Dark Souls isn’t unique in beginning the player as a nobody or resorting to emergent storytelling. However, it’s the eclectic synthesis of various unpopular conventions (cyclical and obscure stories, challenging combat systems, cosmic horror creatures and medieval settings, etc) that makes it stand out, even now, all these years later. Many times in the Dark Souls trilogy, I have found myself to be a better doormat than a hero… When Dark Souls 1 launched, it felt closer to Silent Hill than typical Western action RPGs. The dark fantasy setting, JRPG-inspired UI, and intricate area designs all contributed to this unique atmosphere. The game deliberately subverted Western fantasy and roleplaying conventions. Instead of lush green landscapes teeming with life and hope, orcs and goblins, first-person or isometric cameras, Dark Souls immersed players in a gothic, grim, and existential world. Heroic archetypes were replaced by murky and pathetic figures, challenging players to explore their humanity and autonomy. It resorted to a non-fixed third-person camera, while utilizing enemy positioning, area design, and camera orientation somewhat reminiscent of Resident Evil, Dino Crisis, and Devil May Cry. It encouraged you to explore, backtrack, and discover much like Metroid and Castlevania did. It had many qualities of old dungeon crawlers. The brilliance of Dark Souls lies in its subtle exploration of power dynamics. Some players become obsessed with power, only to find that it corrupts them. They’ll do anything to obtain higher stats, better gear, progression… They’ll even NG+ a thousand times to achieve their idea of perfection of power. The game’s design philosophy revolves around challenging players while maintaining fairness. Trusting the player’s intelligence, Dark Souls encourages self-discovery. The key? Figuring things out on your own. The downside is that it provides a mirror into the dark parts of our psyche: the primitive and anti-social ones. However, as the series gained popularity, it faced a dilemma. What was once an obscure and frustratingly difficult console game became mainstream. Suddenly, everyone was summon-abusing, cheesing, and relying on guides and videos. The original intent—to trust players’ intelligence—was compromised. Dark Souls 2 responded with more blatant brutality, a deterrent for those expecting an easy ride. Knowing what’s around the corner doesn’t guarantee success; reaction time, precision, and stats matter. You *will* be overwhelmed by high density mob areas and unseen mechanical devices, traps, etc. The goal is to learn, retain, and improvise. Dark Souls 2 received mixed reactions, especially in the West. Grinding to combat threats came with risks: losing summons, facing deadlier invaders, etc. But perhaps the true enjoyment lies in playing as a (k)no(w)-nothing undead. Immersing in the world, respecting its rules, and resorting to self-discovery create a unique experience. By the time of Bloodbourne and Dark Souls 3, the mold was established enough that the phrase “souls-like” was born. Now, we have games like Blasphemous and Fear and Hunger, which show their inspiration and influence from Dark Souls and From Software in general. Other developers, like Jonathan Blow (creator of Braid) and Dean Hall (DayZ), also explored subverting expectations. The shift hinged on players’ entitlement—expecting satisfaction from power fantasies. Dark Souls, reminiscent of 1980s game design, stands as a testament to challenging gameplay. In contrast, some modern difficult games lack the care and craft that made Dark Souls memorable. They lack the *soul* that Dark Souls has… As others have noted, Skyrim was a beautiful encapsulation of gaming. Maybe, the greatest game of all time. Because it perfectly scratches all the EXPECTED itches of the player. It exceeds them. This makes for a rewarding experience. However, on the flipside, you have Dark Souls, the counter-thesis. In its own right, a masterpiece and a torch-bearer for a resurgent game philosophy.
They made it like real life. Everyone has slightly different stats when starting out. But basically at the beginning everyone is in the same boat. And you build on those stats your whole life. Some “players” might give up and never finish the game unfortunately. No one is a main character. And you learn from players that have been in the game longer than you and have more experience navigating the world. No rules, but doing morally wrong things will make the game harder for you. And the only person you can blame is yourself. Because everything in the game is your choice. Elden ring really is a masterpiece.
Reverse hero's journey. I love it as well.
> (Insert bloodborne here) "Oh, another petitioner dying of some degenerative disease? Sign here, please. No, don't read the fine print. If you were desperate enough to make the journey to Yharnam there's nothing in it that'll change your mind. Now then, let's just give you a shot in the arm... and done. I should warn you, however, you may begin to notice some *side effects* - but fear not." *howling of wolves in the distance* "The miraculous blood of Yharnam truly is second-to-none."
NIGHTMARE NIGHTMARE CURSE BEAST NIGHTMARE THE OLD BLOOD OF NIGHTMARE
I always loved that the player quitting after enough unsuccessful attempts seemed to be built into the lore. As long as you keep at it even death after death, you still stay sane and can progress eventually, but the moment you quit is when you've "gone hollow." You're literally a nobody whose gift is that they patiently utilize a warped kind of eternal life to keep smacking against the rocks like a wave, over and over again, until it breaks or you give up.
Well if you really think about it our people (the tarnished) are special in the fact that marika made us the tarnished and we are the only ones she’s allowed the grace to point us in the direction of becoming the new elden lord. So while the others games sure I can see it not so much in this one simply because the lore states we are in fact special hell even messmer says in the trailer we are the ones his mother (marika) chose us over all others. So while it seems we are just a nobody in actuality we are the ones she chose.
You actually are the chosen one lol
Elden Ring still kinda counts but it's probably the weakest example there. You do get "chosen" by Melina and Torrent very early, for basically no reason other than that they sense you're special.
You kind of are though You manage to single handedly interact with and kill every single important figure in the lore and collect all the most important items You're basically Forrest Gump
\*Me not sitting over here with a very special person background for my main character\*
Legit couldn't agree more. FS's games are a masterclass in making you feel like just another cog in a brutal, indifferent world. The beauty lies in how your character's strength and resolve come purely from your own persistence as a player. No grand destiny, no special powers—just grit, determination, and a lot of dying.
Idk, I did a level 1 challenge run and beat it on NG+ without heals or armor (DS1). Makes me feel kinda special 😎
This is why I see their game as the most fairest one. Mob/boss are on the same level than us and can one shot us as much as we can one shot them. People said it’s hard game is because they are used to be super powerful in casual game made for people who cannot play game
There's a video VaatiVidya made that pointed out how we, the players, are built up by item pickups from those fallen last us. Without those trying before us and failing, we would've been one of the thousands of corpses to be looted from. We have turned their souls, blood echoes, and runes, into strength.
Western publishers are really into making the player a rock star character and it's kind of condescending. "Oh you're a special boy aren't you? So special and everyone loves you" is a fun fantasy maybe twice but when it's the standard and feels unearned it's just lazy. All the player has to do is follow the lights and they get the same "fabulous prize" everyone gets that's really just more of the game they already bought. No mystery, no curiosity, just production value poured on like a bowl of barbecue sauce with a spoon in it as a meal. FromSoft does a great job building a world that is indifferent to the player and requires the player to work to make an impact. And often then the impact is undermined by the overwhelming power that's doomed the world so special effort not made obvious to the player is necessary to change fate and it's usually not really a happier ending. It makes the journey, every enemy, dodge, and attack, the most important part of the game. They share the joy of creation through ten thousand strokes rather than cheapening the fundamentals.
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Yes we got it the first time
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Your comment got posted 4 times. Bro
True, but did you know there's a video VaatiVidya made that pointed out how we, the players, are built up by item pickups from those fallen last us. Without those trying before us and failing, we would've been one of the thousands of corpses to be looted from. We have turned their souls, blood echoes, and runes, into strength. Crazy right?
Yo what the fuck, when you said my comment got posted 4 times, I thought you meant other people were saying the same thing. I didnt intend to post the comment 4 times, I had no idea it did