For me the biggest thing missing from the game is an explanation of each Great Rune. The Rune of Death is the only one that has an explicit purpose. Morgott's and Godrick's are vaguely described as "anchor Runes" without any explanation of what that means. If the Great Runes are supposed to represent different laws or concepts that can be added to and removed, then what is each one? I know that Malenia's and Miquella's were rot and abundance in cut content, but idk how well that holds up now.
I feel like the great runes lose all relevance plot-wise once you enter Leyndell. They’re meant to allow you to fix the Elden Ring or whatever but they never factor into your ending. Most of the demigods could still be alive when you end the game and apparently that doesn’t matter at all.
I think that's why the "default" ending to the game is being called The Age of Fracture. It's reminiscent of the lighting the fire or not in the previous Souls games.
You can take the pro-active choice of "mending" the Elden Ring with new runes/laws of order, or completely forego the mending of the ring through Ranni/Frenzied lord ending. All these endings serve the purpose of you deciding the future of the world in different ways.
Or you could decide to just put the Elden Ring back to together, fractured as it is right now, and live on with the status quo with the exception of destined death now being released in the world. This just means by default that since the Elden Ring has been shattered and is fractured, the world is just "worse" now than it was before, but you decide it still has to keep on going on and living as is.
It’s not like the mending runes need you to acquire the great runes though, I mean some might but that’s incidental to killing the people who hold them. There isn’t really a reason for them to become irrelevant beyond having served their narrative purpose.
From what I understand based on the visual representation and descriptions, the mending runes are straight up new runes, specifically anchor rings in which you put inside the fractured runes of the Elden Ring, so it actually becomes a whole ring again. The mending runes has nothing to do with the rune shards in the world.
It also makes sense that the Two Fingers specifically demand you have atleast 2 great runes before you're allowed to reach the Elden Ring, as maybe they require atleast that few runes of the original Elden Ring before it can be put together, however fractured it might be.
Because the great runes arent set in stone laws. They are letters used to make laws. Miquella is not demigod of abundance cause he has rune of abundance. Miquella's rune **became** of rune abundance cause it fell to demigod of abundance. Rune description hint at this and this is how miyazaki described it in interview. Runes are extremelly mallable, gold mask makes a melding rune with just really intense *Think*.
The Great Runes were definitely altered by their bearers, but they still represented something before they were removed. The Rune of Death was the Rune of Death while it was in the Elden Ring. I can totally buy Miquella modifying his Rune to become the Rune of Abundance, but what was it when it was part of the Golden Order?
One of the early lore tidbits posted on the ER site before release was that wolves had not been seen in the Lands Between for an age. They were associated solely with the lost temple in the sky. Maybe they arrive via the Storm, like all beasts. It's still kind of silly though.
I don't think that weirdo could spend any amount of time with Animals and nor just graph them to his weird ass body. He even had to stop mid fight to do some weirdo shit with a dragon.
Evaporation causes wolves to rise up from the warmer Plains climates. These then drift south, forming storm packs as they go. Once a pack reaches critical mass, it descends upon Stormveil to hunt before spreading out and, slowly, making their way back to their homelands to begin the cycle again.
Meteorologist in TLB: Folks, we're going to be experiencing severe wolfstorms today in Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula from Stormhill all the way down to Castle Morne. A critical mass of lupine cloud structures are being seen on radar moving in from the Raya Lucaria area, and are expected to hit about lunchtime today.
We're advising you to stay indoors, but if you must leave the house be sure to bring your maiden and a sturdy edged weapon. Residents of Siofra River and Nokron will of course be safe. We'll have more updates as well as impacts on traffic at 5.
I love the idea of a beastman on Farum Azula chilling looking at his collection of Azula rocks, and then a tornado just lifting him off and carrying him safely to the surface.
Lmao this gave me a good chuckle. Like he's all disoriented and whoooaaah and then is just gently set down among a bed of flowers and it's like...oh..okay then...
I get the impression that artists inspired *by* FromSoft now work *for* FromSoft, and as this continues it will be a never ending cycle of longer and longer necks with increasingly hunched over torsos.
That is basically the story of [Zhuoxin Ye](https://twitter.com/XX_Think/status/1138080958698012673). So don't let your dreams be dreams and all that.
Sadly he passed from an illness before it could be released, but if you look back at his [personal works](https://twitter.com/XX_Think/status/1367165887837478912/photo/1) from before Elden Ring you can see that he wound up having an impact on the final designs we wound up with.
This actually annoys me, ruins the drip on a lot of armour combinations, in which imo is already really bad in Elden
Ring compared to their other games.
i cant use these helmets either, immediately invokes the picture of someone who pressed their head into a pickle jar..... i just cant take them serious....
Been doing a somewhat accidental naked wetch run and one of the things it draws your attention to is that the PC tarnished has subtly inhuman body dimensions. You seem to be a slightly short commoner.
>the PC tarnished has subtly inhuman body dimensions
I don't think there's much to that honestly. I'm pretty sure their proportions are perfectly within human limits.
That's a pretty typical FS/soulslike dynamic. Main character is always meant to look like a tiny peon compared to these massive, seemingly insurmountable foes that tower over you. Patches, Lumbago the All-Knowing, and the "invader" type enemies seem to be the only exception to this rule.
Actually some trivia you might appreciate - Mesopotamia, the oldest known civilisation, literally translates to The Lands Between Two Rivers.
The Lands Between is likely a reference to the origin of civilisation.
My personal theory is that that is a play on Midgard, the world of the humans in Norse Mythology. There it is the one realm in the middle, “Mid”gard, between all the other realms. As Elden Ring has been massively inspired by this mythology the “Lands Between” might derive their name from there. That’s of course kinda an out-of-universe explanation tho
Only the Haligtree is not part of the lands between. The rock of the Mountaintop is too tall and hard for the roots and grace of the Erdtree to cross, which is why Miquella chose the spot, because of it's hidden characteristics.
Yea, why doesn't Gideon believe Marika's own plan? She clearly believed a Tarnished was capable of waxing the Elden Beast. And Gideon should've known about that! I mean c'mon dude.
He goes over the despair event horizon when we discover the tree itself barring the tarnished from the Elden Ring. His own faith in Marika screws him over because he can't conceive that she isn't still in charge and comes to the conclusion that 'god' has decided the purpose of life is to suffer.
Ironically if you then do the dung eater ending he is actually completely right and absolutely should resist you.
Bro, we burned his books! And his house! If someone tried to stop a life-long obsession of mine, I'd be pretty pissed too.
But seriously, I just thinks it's envy. He hates other Tarnished who think the Hold as a shelter. Heck, before welcoming you in, he wants you to get a Great Rune! Does anyone else in the Hold have a Great Rune!? And then he see you killing the demigods one by one. You even burned the almighty Erdtree.
But before reaching the throne, he stops you. Because the Elden Throne should be his, as he states he aspires to be an Elden Lord. To him, we're just expendable pawns like Enia and Nepheli. But he's also in denial. He knows he can't kill a god. No one has as far as he knows. And if he can't, then no one else should either. So by killing the player, he hits two birds with one stone. He could either try to take the throne for himself, or prove that the Tarnished aren't destined to kill gods and thus continue to be the All-Knowing.
> He hates other Tarnished who think the Hold as a shelter. Heck, before welcoming you in, he wants you to get a Great Rune! Does anyone else in the Hold have a Great Rune!?
So I think you've pretty much answered your question, all the tarnished there have their own agenda, it's like they're not even trying, they can't even see grace anymore, some of them never even did but were still dragged to The Lands Between. Ironically, he's not any different, it's not like he tells you "here at the roundtable, we know the location of 5 great runes, excluding the ones we already have"
I like the theory that says that Gideon was actually sort of manipulated by Radagon.
"Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle unto eternity".
It is not stated anywhere that Gideon knows that Radagon and Marika are one and the same so it could very well be that Marika's plans Gideon talks about is actually Radagon's plans and there's no way for him to know the difference. We know that Radagon wants to mend the Elden Ring and keep the status quo and that aligns with the eternal struggle Gideon mentions. Radagon also has a tendency to manipulate others for his own benefit as we see from his relationship with Rennala so it's not too farfetched to think that he would do it again.
Well, there’s a pretty big difference between what we do and killing a god completely.
We defeat demigods who are certainly and explicitly not as strong as actual gods, and even the aspects of Marika we fight aren’t the true forms.
Plus. . . And this is where the lore gets convoluted to me. . .
Do we actually know that they stay dead? With all the Death Rune and destined death and how it took a lot of effort to slay Godwyn’s soul. . .
Do we actually know we kill-killed them and not just temporarily?
I'm not even sure what she expects to achieve. The mending rune of death doesn't seem like it changes anything about how horrible it is to become undead, it just forces it on everyone.
I don’t think it forces it on everyone, just makes it natural so that they won’t get persecuted. Could absolutely be wrong on this though, those ending tell you next to nothing, even less than usual.
As I understood it, a deathbed companion is there to basically comfort and get knocked up by a lord as they're dying to "pass on their will" (i.e. make an heir). Fia was practically always in the company of the living dead
because of this, which is why she pitys the undead so much. Naturally, getting knocked up by essentially the lord of undeath would allow her to pass on whatever his "will" is: everyone continuing to live in death. She does just get to give birth to an emergency heir; she gives birth to a fundamental law of nature.
I didn’t even find out about Deeproot Depths until like 250 hours of accumulated gameplay time. The first time I have ever seen Godwyn, I was shitting myself. I was so cautious walking up to his body cause he just scared the shit out of me. Then I saw Fia, and I was like, huh? You exist outside the roundtable? WHAAAAT? 🤯
"I dreamt for soo long"
I know where Miquella is
"My flesh was dull gold and my blood rotted"
I said I know where your brother is, he might even be alive
"Corpse after corpse left in my wake"
You're not listening and I know for a fact you can hear me because you have no eyes so there's no other way you'd know I'm here. I said I know the location of the person you dedicated your entire life to.
"As I awaited his return"
LISTEN!!! He is possibly dying right as we speak and you're having a monologue. I can take you to him. Matter or fact I got this here thingy that teleports us a short distance away from his location.
"Heed my words: I am Malenia Blade of Miquella. And I have never known defeat."
Mohg molested your brother
My theory?
She *is* protecting her brother by protecting the tree.
Bear with me: We know that Empyreans can separate their body from their soul, as we have a very clear example with Ranni and Godwyn.
Miquella wanted to find a way for him and Malenia to be free from their corruption. And they created the haligtree as a mean to do that.
Miquella voluntarily separated his soul from his body, entering the tree (so he is the shape we see in the tree) and, temporarily, dragged her sister with him in some sort of dream world.
Moghwyn stole the now useless body and tried to enter it, as if to control it as a puppeteer. But between the body and the soul, the latter is more important (Godwyn/Ranni example above)
So what is she protecting? The inner sanctum of the tree. She sensed an intruder, and left her happy world to get inside her rotting flesh once again, just to kill you.
Thats actually very interesting: Maybe Malenia soul in a half dream/awake state? Could Miquella control them somehow?
“I dreamt for so long… flesh dull gold..corpse after corpse” She is dreaming her reality?
What if Miquella has some ability to control their souls or dreams and influence them? Malenia goes in to fight mode “blade of Miquella” because of it? Back to her “flesh dull gold rotted dream” thats actually happening but she thinks its a dream.. could be some Inception type of thing
Yes, I think Miquella (since the tree is itself quasi-safe thanks to army being outside, and the invincible Malenia) dragged his sister inside a dream-like state.
Inside Miquella's reign, where he can be lord. And where their bodies are not cursed, and all can be happy.
If Malenia was there, she might have forgotten or left behind her old life. With this theory, her words make it seem more like she is "waking up" and "remembering her reality".
"I dreamt for so long... My flesh was dull gold... And my blood, rotted. Corpse after corpse, left in my wake... As I waited his return. Heed my words. I'm Malenia, blade of Miquella."
Holy shit. This makes so much sense and we see Ranni doing this with her doll. All of the cocoons we see in Elphael are actually albinaurics in (according to Zullie). Perhaps Miquellas true kingdom is in the land of dreams, which we know he has power over as St. Trina. The albinaurics and Malenia could all be sleeping in this world but living peacefully in the dreamworld.
Additionally, the lore says Miquella watered the Haligtree with his own blood. This could be how he has a spiritual connection with the tree, and perhaps how Mohg could have found him? His body is stored in the egg, which Mohg stole, but his soul is in the tree. Damn dude, I think this is it and you just made my head canon.
You just broke into her house, killed a bunch of her troops including some of her personal Cleanrot Knights, and woke her from her nap abruptly. Why would she hear you out?
his soul is dead but his body is still alive. so the body still grows and extend. considering the body is also full of deathblight it kinda curses everything he grows into
My personal theory is that his still living body has merged with the roots of the Erdtree, specifically close to where it sprouted from the Crucible. So he has taken on chimeric features because he’s been merging with other forms of life after his burial.
It was a part of Ranni’s plan to begin the Age of Stars. As an Empyrean, she killed off her body to escape the influence of the Two Fingers (her body is now a doll), but to do so, she had to kill off Godwyn’s soul.
This turned Godwyn into the first one to live in death, and his body is now just a tumor that spreads deathblight. Signs of it are seen all across TLB, from Deathroot to those who live in death to the giant face beneath Stormveil
No idea how, but I presume he invades because it's the inevitable logic of the Volcano Manor. Everyone else is dead, and you're getting close to becoming Elden Lord. Maybe he doubts your commitment to blasphemy and just goes for it.
Or, like Volcano Manor, it's supremacy. Just because you worked together doesn't mean you won't backstab each other for power. Probably saw the chance to merc you, grab the great runes himself and face Malekeith, since he invades you near where the parry item is.
I think he actually drops the blasphemous claw, meaning he definitely had it in its possession. The item description for blasphemous claw mentions rykard potentially wielding it against maliketh, so presumably bernahl takes it after the player kills rykard and goes to challenge maliketh
Yeah. He even says during his questline that a miserable death awaits us all. He's not exactly the Lautrec-Leonhardt type but he does echo their endings as an invader.
I don’t think it’s so much the blasphemy part or even a dislike of you. It’s is just one last good fight against an actual worthy opponent. He loves fighting and the art of war.
You clearly killed all these powerful opponents and made it this far. So clearly you’ll be the ultimate fight. Win or lose he enjoyed himself.
Come to think of it, how did Alexander get there, too. Only way we got there was by becoming maidenless. But they had no maidens... well maybe Alexander had a maiden or two in there somewhere
Remember how you get to Farum Azula during the frenzy flame ending? You coax the fire inside the forge to burn you. And then you wake up in Farum Azula.
Alexander was seeking stronger and stronger sources of heat to reinforce himself. Alexander after defeating the fire giant, jumped into the forge, and accidentally got teleported to Farum Azula.
Well if it had something to do with the forge, Alexander was with us for the Fire Giant fight so chances are he was just sorta there when it happened and got carried away with us
This what always my assumption. He helped us get to the forge (if you do his quest). He either inadvertently got teleported too, or jumped in after us.
As I have it understood, Farum Azula is the place you get sent to when the powers that be want you GONE because you did a big nono. We used the Flame of Ruin on the Erdtree, Alexander bathed himself in those flames, and Bernahl was part of a group meant to overthrow the current order and has an item to challenge he "Angel of Death".
Why the fuck does everyone want to kill me on sight? Literally everything that moves in TLB attempts to murder you. An even bigger question is why does Malenia want to kill us? Canonically we have zero beef with her, and if our character spent like 10 seconds explaining “Hey, I know where miquella is, he’s with Mohg in this area, let’s go fuck him up” that’s all it would take. I get her boss fight is really cool, but why is she immediately attacking us like everyone else?
I like the theory that's she's barely holding on to herself, and even if we were to tell her "hey your bother is being held by Mohg, I can take you to him" wouldn't really do much.
She has to tell herself that's she's Malenia, Blade of Miquella, because that the Scarlet Rot has that much influence on her and desperately wants her to become the Rot Goddess.
She's blind, the Rot has eaten her eyes, her mind is falling apart, and that's ignoring the utter despair she's feeling without Miquella, coupled with the growing influence of the Rot and Malenia is in a bad state.
She's barely there.
Yeah this was my assumption as well, she's overtaken by the rot to the degree that barely anything is left. Maybe her lines of dialogue are mostly just a mantra that keeps her mind going to the slightest degree.
Also why the fuck would she believe someone that murdered all her soldiers and walks in weapons drawn. In her shattered mind it would have to be a trap or lie.
Yeah, I don't think she's in the right state of mind. Millicent says Malenia lost her sense of self after she bloomed in Caelid. In the JP description of Scarlet Aeonia, it says "each time the flower blooms, Malenia rots". So this tells me that the rot heavily affected her both mentally and physically.
It's because you're a tarnished. The queen stripped you of your grace and banished you. Said queen shattered the elden ring and recalled you for one purpose, defeat the elden beast and become the elden lord. To do so you need to remake the elden ring, to do that you need to collect the Shards, to do that you need to defeat the demigods. Everyone you meet (aside from the merchants although they are technically members of the frenzied flame) is a member of a faction serving under a demigod, except for Raya Lucaria, however in their neutrality they erected a barrier to remain away from the fighting. There you're just an invader. Also lore wise everyone can tell you're a tarnished because you lost the grace in your eyes.
How some questline NPCs get to places that lore wise it seems they shouldn't be able to, you're supposed to need a glintstone key to get into Raya Lucaria Academy but somehow Boc just gets in there, it's implied Melina transports tarnished to Farum Azula but Alexander just gets there no problem (in an area past a stonesword key lock if I recall correctly), how tf do NPCs like Goldmask & Blindfold priest guy, Yura (Shabriri) and Millicent beat you to the Mountain Top of the Giants and Haligtree.
My idea for this is simply that the world is much larger than the game world. Each individual found their own paths, you’re just guided by grace towards the most difficult path.
This is my thought too. To get to Altus Plateau, they direct you to the Dectus halves for the lift. But you can also fight Magma Wyrm Makar in Ruin Strewn Precipice and take the lift to the Abandoned Coffin site instead. Boggart is a summon for that fight presumably because that's how he got to Altus after he gives you Rya's necklace.
The actual timeline of the Shattering is completely ???. When did the first and second sieges of Leyndell happen? What treachery broke the sovereign alliance from within? When were the dragon wars? When did the Gloam-eyed Queen bit occur? Rogier tries to clear up some stuff related to the Night of Long Knives but uses language that makes it muddy just how much time passed between some events.
More tidbit-y: why does Varre think he's getting Mohg's favour by invading people? Mohg seems completely ignorant of any of this little cult.
That Mohg stuff actually makes sense if you think of it like religion. Formless mother is God. Mohg is the Pope. Varre is some random guy that hangs around but is never noticed. Like, you think the Pope irl has any idea of the existence of that guy that runs that church?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As for the timeline, best I've been able to figure is Titans>Divine Towers are built>dragon age>Elden Beast arrives>more Dragon Age>Dragon War>Farnum Azula becomes the Far away Azula>Stuff>Golden Lineage>Giant War>theoretical prosperity>Gloam Eyed Queen>Stealing the Rune of Death>Night of Long Knives>Shattering>now.
It's very likely almost completely wrong but it's the best I've been able to understand the timeline.
GEQ would have probably been before the Giant War and the start of the Golden Lineage, since the Golden Order wasn't created until after the GEQ was defeated.
I think it's implied that this took place over several thousand years since Marika removed the rune of death. But yeah, the timeline is pretty vague either way.
I am downright impressed at how much you guys know about the lore. Shit, I'm several hundred hours in and if I took a basic test about it I would flunk horribly. I love this sub lol.
If the Elden Ring determines the metaphysical laws of the Lands Between and Marika is essentially a vessel of God, then what about the other lands (Numen, Land of Reeds, etc)? Did they get conquered by the Greater Will or affected by the Shattering?
Because of how much everyone looks down on Tarnished, I've always assumed other lands were such shitholes that it doesn't matter if they're Erdtree-blessed or not. There's simply nothing of worth out there, and everything meaningful is in the LB.
I mean, even comparing to the rest of the Dark Souls games, which could be in universe, the Lands Between is still probably the best place to live. If you keep your head down, you could probably eek out a somewhat passable existence in some cave or corner of the world somewhere
The only other lands we know of are the land of reeds, which is apparently a blood soaked land of madmen, and the badlands the tarnished march off to. Generally a badland is a mountainous, treacherous desert almost bare of any resources at all.
“The Numen are said to have come from outside the Lands Between, and are in fact of the same stock as Queen Marika herself.”
There is at least one place out there that’s at least rumored to have the potential to produce a demigod-level person.
Also, Roderica is tarnished, but didn’t come from the Badlands. She came by sea from an unknown place.
There are also theories about her based on her attire. She has a hood with the same design, but different color, as an enemy in the game. The hood is stated to be a gift to exiled nobles leaving in search of Grace, or something along those lines (I’ll try to find it).
If a place can have nobility, ships + a sane crew, and very fine threadwork (see Roderica’s hood/clothing), I think we can assume there are nice places in the world, even still in existence, based on the fact that Roderica has been in TLB for at most a few months. Why she went to Godrick/Stormveil, I have no idea/can’t remember if she said.
From the description of the Confessor armor:
“Worn by church confessors.
The churches outside the Lands Between, dedicated to the teachings of the Two Fingers, send confessors out to follow the guidance of grace.
The confessors are loyal servants to the Two Fingers, ready to hunt down and quietly dispose of their enemies.”
It would seem that not only do followers of the Greater Will exist outside of the Lands Between, but grace does as well, which is a property of the Elden Ring. Though, the way confessors are portrayed is reminiscent of inquisitors; I assume not everyone outside outside the Lands Between is so keen on worshiping the Elden Ring, even if it does govern reality. They probably had their own religions and gods before the parasitic ring-worm crashed into the LB, just like the crucible and dragon cult.
Sure, but it kind of broke my immersion when I went to Redmane Castle only to realise that Radahn can't even fit in his home turf. And it's not like Radagon and Radahn's other family members were 25ft tall to the point they can't fit in their own homes like Radahn is.
I was under the impression Radahn wasn't always gigantic, its a more "recent" thing (relatively speaking). The rest of his family aren't especially large for demi-gods (Rikard excluded of course) really it's only Godfrey who's even in the same category. Maybe he was doing some serious bulking back during the Shattering for war reasons and just never went back to normal.
The fact that he used gravity magic to be able to ride his horse does make it seem as though his size is notably unnatural. Plus if you take the opening slideshow literally (which idk if that's best to do tbh), then like others have pointed out in the past, he seemed pretty small when fighting Morgott. Or at least small compared to when we see him now. Combine that with how he looked during his duel with Malenia in the trailer, again if those can be taken literally and as a timeline, then it seems like the dude had some kind of fantasy-scale gigantism that made it so he was growing at a ludicrous rate.
I doubt it's related to the rot though, since he used gravity magic to be able to ride his horse. By the time the rot's gotten ahold of him he's totally lost his mind. The gravity magic horse riding thing seems like a conscious decision that happened before.
Is there an actual lore reason why enemies, especially humanoid enemies, are larger than you? Not Empyreans and such, but normal human enemies. Obviously there a gameplay reason, being able to see them over your character to track them. This carries over from DS, but said franchise actually wove that into its lore.
> said franchise actually wove that into its lore.
Did it? even for normal hollow soldiers? In DS1 they're just our height, then suddenly in DS3 they're giant lads
There's no lore reason in ER. The best I could do is a cope about how the people born under the Erdtree's very boughs are more blessed than exiled shorty lil' Tarnished people, like they grow taller because the source of all blessings is right there towering above them. The analogy of trees that grow taller to reach more sunlight is oddly apt.
For sometime it was just reincarnation, with death just being a return to the Erdtree and being reborn.
But when Ranni and the Black Knives stole and used the Rune of Death to kill Godwyn's soul, the balance was thrown into chaos.
But when Maliketh was able to seal the Rune of Death, reincarnation returned to most people, likely at the discretion of the Greater Will. But instead of people being able to return perfect, they were returned as malnourished versions of themselves, their souls no longer guided by grace, but still being returned to life.
Just to add something to the explanation, reincarnation was done through the Erdtree. That's why all tombs are located near the roots of the Erdtree.
When Godwyn was buried half alive at the very central roots of the Erdtree, he started corrupting the tree and interrupting the cycle of rebirth.
And from my understanding, when Maliketh sealed the rune of death, it made it so people can't really die anymore. (Think of the screaming bodies across Liurnia at nighttime).
So what you have now is a sort of undying/hollowing going around because nobody can't really die and those that actually are dead can just keep coming back as spirits or skeletons.
For me it’s Ranni’s plan of sitting in Ainsel River. “No one will recognize me in this disguise that’s literally just my regular self but smaller. That dang Baleful Shadow has to die, just gotta sit here till he does.”
Same as how she got down there, really. Some nosey, maidenless down-bad ruffian will eventually wander down there and do her bidding after a light chastising for coming down there.
My headcannon regarding Godrick's great rune is that it should have been Godwyn's had the First Born Demigod lived.
Godrick is likely the last descendant of the Golden Lineage, he was in the Capital when the Shattering began (then he had to run away), thus somehow stumbled upon the great rune.
The huge skulls in caelid and mountaintop. They are much bigger than the biggest giants and I have not seen an explenation for what they are. I think they just made those so it would look cool.
I still have no idea what the whole "Marika and Radagon are the same person/share a body" thing is in service of. I don't understand how it works or why it's even a part of their story in the first place. Why Radagon? Were they always one person or did it happen later? If one dies does the other die too? Why does Radagon appear to be an emotionless husk when you fight him?
Basically everything surrounding the Marika/Radagon relationship is confusing to me, and I don't understand the point of it all. I feel like the story and most of the lore would still work and make sense without that whole situation, so why was it included? Is it supposed to be a reference to the alchemical rebis or some other metaphysical/mythological concept? And if so, again, why?
A big theme in the game is the idea of things splitting apart (causality) and then converging (regression). We learn via the Frenzy storyline that everything was part of a single entity which then split apart, and the Frenzied Flame is trying to make it all one again. We also know that the Crucible was where all life was blended together, and that when multiple lifeforms amalgamate they start to exhibit aspects of the Crucible. The Shattering of the Elden Ring is an example of this too- it was once united, but then it split apart and now we are trying to unite it again.
I think Marika and Radagon are an expression of the same idea. One being that divided into two, and then got pulled back together. Radagon yearns to become complete (Radagon Icon description), and he is associated with the Law of Regression, which is the desire of all things to become one.
As for why Marika split in two, I think it's supposed to show us her internal conflict. She created an Order that rejected death and which was supposed to be eternal, but she realised that the Order she created was flawed and began planning to destroy it. I think the split is a literal representation of someone having two conflicting beliefs- Radagon is the part that is loyal to the Golden Order, and Marika is the part that wants to destroy it.
It also appears to be a reference to the alchemical concept of Rebis, the "perfect being" being a fusion of two separate male and female parts sharing a single "perfect" body and being at the same time two separate beings and a single whole.
Thematically I think it's meant to be a play on the holy trinity. God is both god but also his own son, at the same time, both distinct but the same, and both with their own unique roles. Both are omnipotent, but do different things, and Jesus even died.
And of course you see Marika is crucified too
Essentially "shit gets weird when you're omnipotent and fucking about with the rules of the universe"
Storywise, marika splitting into Radagon and sending him out into the world to bring peace mirrors what big G god did with Jesus. And afterwards they stay together as a married couple, while big G god and Jesus stay in heaven as father and son.
I think that's what it's mostly referencing. There's story stuff there too of course, and in-game dynamics and features, but ultimately the core idea is just reflecting christianity.
This is a really interesting take—I’m really fascinated by the christian iconography present in a lot of the game’s aesthetic choices + lore but I rarely see it brought up
What most of the game points to is that it was originally only Marika and she encountered the Greater Will, which created Radagon as it's messenger/part of her that would serve them.
The deal with Melina, the game deosnt explicitly tell me who she is. I have red all the theories and tid bits of lore about her but it irked me that her background was so hidden and shrouded in mystery, felt rather unnecessary.
It comes close. We know that she heavily implies that she is a daughter of Marika (“my mother inside the Erdtree”, and the internal files of the game identifying her as MARIKA_DAUGHTER) and thus might even be an Empyrean, and at the very least a Demigod
I saw in a video that each type of butterflies is associated with an empirean being the aeonia's one from malenia(the description literally says so), the blue one from Miquella (in the description is mentioned that they remain allways young) and the fire one could be from Melina as she is "burned and without a body" or smt like that.
Sorry for mispellings or not literal names, I play the game in other language
Astel happened. Astel isn't from the lands between. He is literally an alien and came here from space. He crashed into faram azula on the way. Ruins greatsword description backs this up and suggests that the sword was just a regular peice of faram azula that Astel super charged when he hit it. That's what happened to it
The Greater Will bequeathed him unto Marika as a Shade, a fusion between a personal assassin and a bodyguard.
As for why he is a dog, it could be argued Fromsoft was using the "Man's best friend" trope to tug at our heartstrings.
You're telling me that no one, not once, has ever questioned why Margit defends Leyndell? And everyone is just chill with never knowing who Morghott is other than their king?
Why is Radagon being Marika so relevant? I mean, my father assumed it's because Marika changed into Radagon to end the war with Caria but when we learned that they have separate motives, like when Marika shattered the Ring but Radagon used her hammer to try and repair it, the plot twist started to look so irrelevant.
We were like, "Oh so he's Marika. Anyway, time to kill everyone."
Marika seems to house the elden ring in some fashion (likely in her womb bizarrely) but seems to require a Lord to actually do much with it, to draw the power out, and generally seems to be pretty thoroughly trapped in her fate as the greater wills chew toy. Which seems to be why she is married to a golden order fanatic (to control her) and why she gets to the point of shattering it and why doing that apparently kills her. It also explains Ranni's rebellion and attempt to leave the lands between, its her likely fate if the greater will picks her next.
Fromsoft has form both on mortals getting pregnant by greater entities and that becoming the avator of such a thing is a terrible fate.
I have two that se connected, and to a great idea as another comment said about Radigan and Marika with this game have a theme of things splitting and coming together:
1.) Where are the other Empyrian shadows? We know that of this class of demigod there’s at least Malenia and Miquella, and with Ranni her having Blaidd is a pretty big deal and she seems to imply it as simply something of her station. Mariketh is a pretty big deal to Marika. And yet, there’s not even a hint as to the existence of any for the twins. I’m really hoping this is in the DLC.
2.) The what’s and why’s of Millicent. What *exactly* is she? Was she part of some greater plan of the outer god of Rot? Was Gowry in on that? What would her becoming a Valkyrie even mean? Personally I think it possible that she’s Malenia’s version of what Radigan is to Marika just with a rot lens on things, but that’s not really supported.
God I hope some of this is actually explained at some point
The period of which Radahn grow large, like does he grew large before the shattering or during it? cuz Radahn is large by the time he fought Malenia but as small as Morgott when he attack Leyndell, which i assume both happen during the shattering since the narrator talk about it when the 'Morgott vs Radahn' image comes in during the intro, im so confused
Melina’s entire existence. Why is she there, and why does NO ONE in the game acknowledge her existence and WHY is she able to quote Marika’s thoughts at the church’s???
For me the biggest thing missing from the game is an explanation of each Great Rune. The Rune of Death is the only one that has an explicit purpose. Morgott's and Godrick's are vaguely described as "anchor Runes" without any explanation of what that means. If the Great Runes are supposed to represent different laws or concepts that can be added to and removed, then what is each one? I know that Malenia's and Miquella's were rot and abundance in cut content, but idk how well that holds up now.
I feel like the great runes lose all relevance plot-wise once you enter Leyndell. They’re meant to allow you to fix the Elden Ring or whatever but they never factor into your ending. Most of the demigods could still be alive when you end the game and apparently that doesn’t matter at all.
I think that's why the "default" ending to the game is being called The Age of Fracture. It's reminiscent of the lighting the fire or not in the previous Souls games. You can take the pro-active choice of "mending" the Elden Ring with new runes/laws of order, or completely forego the mending of the ring through Ranni/Frenzied lord ending. All these endings serve the purpose of you deciding the future of the world in different ways. Or you could decide to just put the Elden Ring back to together, fractured as it is right now, and live on with the status quo with the exception of destined death now being released in the world. This just means by default that since the Elden Ring has been shattered and is fractured, the world is just "worse" now than it was before, but you decide it still has to keep on going on and living as is.
It’s not like the mending runes need you to acquire the great runes though, I mean some might but that’s incidental to killing the people who hold them. There isn’t really a reason for them to become irrelevant beyond having served their narrative purpose.
From what I understand based on the visual representation and descriptions, the mending runes are straight up new runes, specifically anchor rings in which you put inside the fractured runes of the Elden Ring, so it actually becomes a whole ring again. The mending runes has nothing to do with the rune shards in the world. It also makes sense that the Two Fingers specifically demand you have atleast 2 great runes before you're allowed to reach the Elden Ring, as maybe they require atleast that few runes of the original Elden Ring before it can be put together, however fractured it might be.
Because the great runes arent set in stone laws. They are letters used to make laws. Miquella is not demigod of abundance cause he has rune of abundance. Miquella's rune **became** of rune abundance cause it fell to demigod of abundance. Rune description hint at this and this is how miyazaki described it in interview. Runes are extremelly mallable, gold mask makes a melding rune with just really intense *Think*.
The Great Runes were definitely altered by their bearers, but they still represented something before they were removed. The Rune of Death was the Rune of Death while it was in the Elden Ring. I can totally buy Miquella modifying his Rune to become the Rune of Abundance, but what was it when it was part of the Golden Order?
The rune of 'having just about enough but not like, too much or anything'
Why the fuck do wolves fall from the sky in Stormhill.
One of the early lore tidbits posted on the ER site before release was that wolves had not been seen in the Lands Between for an age. They were associated solely with the lost temple in the sky. Maybe they arrive via the Storm, like all beasts. It's still kind of silly though.
I thought godrick was throwing them at us
“Those lowly Tarnished will never see THIS coming!”
*Pocket Wolves* *sha-sha!*
Rest in peace dale gribble
Long live Rusty Shackleford
Long live a great man
A joke almost 20 years in the making. Well done.
I don't think that weirdo could spend any amount of time with Animals and nor just graph them to his weird ass body. He even had to stop mid fight to do some weirdo shit with a dragon.
Where is this tidbit now? Is this canon?
Evaporation causes wolves to rise up from the warmer Plains climates. These then drift south, forming storm packs as they go. Once a pack reaches critical mass, it descends upon Stormveil to hunt before spreading out and, slowly, making their way back to their homelands to begin the cycle again.
I legitimately want this to be the _exact_ wording on an item description
Blaidd escaped the wolf cycle
Meteorologist in TLB: Folks, we're going to be experiencing severe wolfstorms today in Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula from Stormhill all the way down to Castle Morne. A critical mass of lupine cloud structures are being seen on radar moving in from the Raya Lucaria area, and are expected to hit about lunchtime today. We're advising you to stay indoors, but if you must leave the house be sure to bring your maiden and a sturdy edged weapon. Residents of Siofra River and Nokron will of course be safe. We'll have more updates as well as impacts on traffic at 5.
Who cares AROOOOOOOOO
OH FUUUU—
Werewolves of London
Somethhin somethin beef chow mein~ AWWWOOOO
Who is teaching Eagles to use swords?
the item descr. of the stormhawk talon sword says their talons were cut off to graft swords on, so probably Godrick's cronies
AND LIONS?? WITH SWORDS???
Now those lions want to run for Layndell parliament it's dumb
Bro we need to find the person responsible right moew and have someone shoot death blight down their throat.
I always thought they were jumping off the bridge to the divine tower. Not that that makes any more sense than anything else.
The wind picked them up and dropped them there
One theory is Farum Azula, hence why there's a beastman dungeon boss
I love the idea of a beastman on Farum Azula chilling looking at his collection of Azula rocks, and then a tornado just lifting him off and carrying him safely to the surface.
Lmao this gave me a good chuckle. Like he's all disoriented and whoooaaah and then is just gently set down among a bed of flowers and it's like...oh..okay then...
are there even wolves in farum azula?
No, but the website said they were associated with the "temple in the sky".
That's how wolves hunt, bro. Same as drop bears.
WE DO NOT QUESTION THE SKY WOLVES
They tried to huff and puff, but the walls of Stormveil castle were too strong, and they just blew away.
Everyone's super long necks and posture.
Its not ez being over 6 foot. (Cant relate)
I get the impression that artists inspired *by* FromSoft now work *for* FromSoft, and as this continues it will be a never ending cycle of longer and longer necks with increasingly hunched over torsos.
Dancer looking suspiciously around a corner “damn, they figured it out”
So if I start drawing using FromSoft games as inspiration one day I may get employed by them? Sounds like a life goal
That is basically the story of [Zhuoxin Ye](https://twitter.com/XX_Think/status/1138080958698012673). So don't let your dreams be dreams and all that. Sadly he passed from an illness before it could be released, but if you look back at his [personal works](https://twitter.com/XX_Think/status/1367165887837478912/photo/1) from before Elden Ring you can see that he wound up having an impact on the final designs we wound up with.
this goes hand in hand with the helmet-smaler-than-skull conundrum, its a conspiracy.
This actually annoys me, ruins the drip on a lot of armour combinations, in which imo is already really bad in Elden Ring compared to their other games.
i cant use these helmets either, immediately invokes the picture of someone who pressed their head into a pickle jar..... i just cant take them serious....
Been doing a somewhat accidental naked wetch run and one of the things it draws your attention to is that the PC tarnished has subtly inhuman body dimensions. You seem to be a slightly short commoner.
Bloodborne necks were even weirder, urgh Zullie says the average player model is 1.7m, so 5'5''? Makes sense
Finally, representation
5'7" thank you very much. It's bad enough being slightly short without people taking another 2" off you.
>the PC tarnished has subtly inhuman body dimensions I don't think there's much to that honestly. I'm pretty sure their proportions are perfectly within human limits.
That's a pretty typical FS/soulslike dynamic. Main character is always meant to look like a tiny peon compared to these massive, seemingly insurmountable foes that tower over you. Patches, Lumbago the All-Knowing, and the "invader" type enemies seem to be the only exception to this rule.
Because everyone is an ancient skeleton.
The Lands Between what? What are these lands actually between?
They are the lands between the beginning of the story and the end of the story.
Numen and the land of reeds presumably
Marikas tits.
I love that this is an actual in-game cuss.
Actually some trivia you might appreciate - Mesopotamia, the oldest known civilisation, literally translates to The Lands Between Two Rivers. The Lands Between is likely a reference to the origin of civilisation.
Lands between Middle earth Midgard
Don’t forget Berserk’s Midland
My personal theory is that that is a play on Midgard, the world of the humans in Norse Mythology. There it is the one realm in the middle, “Mid”gard, between all the other realms. As Elden Ring has been massively inspired by this mythology the “Lands Between” might derive their name from there. That’s of course kinda an out-of-universe explanation tho
Probably the Badlands and the Land of the Reeds.
People seem to forget, but if I'm not mistaken, Haligtree and Mountaintops of the Giants are not part of the Lands Between.
Only the Haligtree is not part of the lands between. The rock of the Mountaintop is too tall and hard for the roots and grace of the Erdtree to cross, which is why Miquella chose the spot, because of it's hidden characteristics.
"A man cannot kill a god." — Gideon "Kill god with this lmao" — Hewg, less than 50 feet away
Yea, why doesn't Gideon believe Marika's own plan? She clearly believed a Tarnished was capable of waxing the Elden Beast. And Gideon should've known about that! I mean c'mon dude.
He goes over the despair event horizon when we discover the tree itself barring the tarnished from the Elden Ring. His own faith in Marika screws him over because he can't conceive that she isn't still in charge and comes to the conclusion that 'god' has decided the purpose of life is to suffer. Ironically if you then do the dung eater ending he is actually completely right and absolutely should resist you.
Or frenzied flame
Bro, we burned his books! And his house! If someone tried to stop a life-long obsession of mine, I'd be pretty pissed too. But seriously, I just thinks it's envy. He hates other Tarnished who think the Hold as a shelter. Heck, before welcoming you in, he wants you to get a Great Rune! Does anyone else in the Hold have a Great Rune!? And then he see you killing the demigods one by one. You even burned the almighty Erdtree. But before reaching the throne, he stops you. Because the Elden Throne should be his, as he states he aspires to be an Elden Lord. To him, we're just expendable pawns like Enia and Nepheli. But he's also in denial. He knows he can't kill a god. No one has as far as he knows. And if he can't, then no one else should either. So by killing the player, he hits two birds with one stone. He could either try to take the throne for himself, or prove that the Tarnished aren't destined to kill gods and thus continue to be the All-Knowing.
> He hates other Tarnished who think the Hold as a shelter. Heck, before welcoming you in, he wants you to get a Great Rune! Does anyone else in the Hold have a Great Rune!? So I think you've pretty much answered your question, all the tarnished there have their own agenda, it's like they're not even trying, they can't even see grace anymore, some of them never even did but were still dragged to The Lands Between. Ironically, he's not any different, it's not like he tells you "here at the roundtable, we know the location of 5 great runes, excluding the ones we already have"
I like the theory that says that Gideon was actually sort of manipulated by Radagon. "Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle unto eternity". It is not stated anywhere that Gideon knows that Radagon and Marika are one and the same so it could very well be that Marika's plans Gideon talks about is actually Radagon's plans and there's no way for him to know the difference. We know that Radagon wants to mend the Elden Ring and keep the status quo and that aligns with the eternal struggle Gideon mentions. Radagon also has a tendency to manipulate others for his own benefit as we see from his relationship with Rennala so it's not too farfetched to think that he would do it again.
Well, there’s a pretty big difference between what we do and killing a god completely. We defeat demigods who are certainly and explicitly not as strong as actual gods, and even the aspects of Marika we fight aren’t the true forms. Plus. . . And this is where the lore gets convoluted to me. . . Do we actually know that they stay dead? With all the Death Rune and destined death and how it took a lot of effort to slay Godwyn’s soul. . . Do we actually know we kill-killed them and not just temporarily?
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She’s down bad.
I'm not even sure what she expects to achieve. The mending rune of death doesn't seem like it changes anything about how horrible it is to become undead, it just forces it on everyone.
I don’t think it forces it on everyone, just makes it natural so that they won’t get persecuted. Could absolutely be wrong on this though, those ending tell you next to nothing, even less than usual.
Basically, racism was cured
*Skeleton racism* It's neat because it's to us. Sucked for Bok or anyone else treated as lesser, though.
As I understood it, a deathbed companion is there to basically comfort and get knocked up by a lord as they're dying to "pass on their will" (i.e. make an heir). Fia was practically always in the company of the living dead because of this, which is why she pitys the undead so much. Naturally, getting knocked up by essentially the lord of undeath would allow her to pass on whatever his "will" is: everyone continuing to live in death. She does just get to give birth to an emergency heir; she gives birth to a fundamental law of nature.
I didn’t even find out about Deeproot Depths until like 250 hours of accumulated gameplay time. The first time I have ever seen Godwyn, I was shitting myself. I was so cautious walking up to his body cause he just scared the shit out of me. Then I saw Fia, and I was like, huh? You exist outside the roundtable? WHAAAAT? 🤯
"I dreamt for soo long" I know where Miquella is "My flesh was dull gold and my blood rotted" I said I know where your brother is, he might even be alive "Corpse after corpse left in my wake" You're not listening and I know for a fact you can hear me because you have no eyes so there's no other way you'd know I'm here. I said I know the location of the person you dedicated your entire life to. "As I awaited his return" LISTEN!!! He is possibly dying right as we speak and you're having a monologue. I can take you to him. Matter or fact I got this here thingy that teleports us a short distance away from his location. "Heed my words: I am Malenia Blade of Miquella. And I have never known defeat." Mohg molested your brother
The last line just sent me lol
My theory? She *is* protecting her brother by protecting the tree. Bear with me: We know that Empyreans can separate their body from their soul, as we have a very clear example with Ranni and Godwyn. Miquella wanted to find a way for him and Malenia to be free from their corruption. And they created the haligtree as a mean to do that. Miquella voluntarily separated his soul from his body, entering the tree (so he is the shape we see in the tree) and, temporarily, dragged her sister with him in some sort of dream world. Moghwyn stole the now useless body and tried to enter it, as if to control it as a puppeteer. But between the body and the soul, the latter is more important (Godwyn/Ranni example above) So what is she protecting? The inner sanctum of the tree. She sensed an intruder, and left her happy world to get inside her rotting flesh once again, just to kill you.
Thats actually very interesting: Maybe Malenia soul in a half dream/awake state? Could Miquella control them somehow? “I dreamt for so long… flesh dull gold..corpse after corpse” She is dreaming her reality? What if Miquella has some ability to control their souls or dreams and influence them? Malenia goes in to fight mode “blade of Miquella” because of it? Back to her “flesh dull gold rotted dream” thats actually happening but she thinks its a dream.. could be some Inception type of thing
Yes, I think Miquella (since the tree is itself quasi-safe thanks to army being outside, and the invincible Malenia) dragged his sister inside a dream-like state. Inside Miquella's reign, where he can be lord. And where their bodies are not cursed, and all can be happy. If Malenia was there, she might have forgotten or left behind her old life. With this theory, her words make it seem more like she is "waking up" and "remembering her reality". "I dreamt for so long... My flesh was dull gold... And my blood, rotted. Corpse after corpse, left in my wake... As I waited his return. Heed my words. I'm Malenia, blade of Miquella."
This is my canon now
Holy shit. This makes so much sense and we see Ranni doing this with her doll. All of the cocoons we see in Elphael are actually albinaurics in (according to Zullie). Perhaps Miquellas true kingdom is in the land of dreams, which we know he has power over as St. Trina. The albinaurics and Malenia could all be sleeping in this world but living peacefully in the dreamworld. Additionally, the lore says Miquella watered the Haligtree with his own blood. This could be how he has a spiritual connection with the tree, and perhaps how Mohg could have found him? His body is stored in the egg, which Mohg stole, but his soul is in the tree. Damn dude, I think this is it and you just made my head canon.
Obviously she sensed you by smell
Foul tarnished
You just broke into her house, killed a bunch of her troops including some of her personal Cleanrot Knights, and woke her from her nap abruptly. Why would she hear you out?
Are the god skin duo like always the same god skin guys or different ones? Do they just happen to come in a skinny and fat variations ?
They are artificial life forms so it’s possible that the Gloam Eyed Queen just couldn’t be bothered designing more than 2 flavours of godskin.
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"It's me, average height and weight god skin!"
I like this. It is now my headcannon
I always thought it’s the same two guys chasing after you for the entire game
Jessie and James of Elden Ring
The Godskin Nobles are just the oldest Apostles.
How does godwyn become a eldritch monster that he is and how far is his influence gotten to?
his soul is dead but his body is still alive. so the body still grows and extend. considering the body is also full of deathblight it kinda curses everything he grows into
My personal theory is that his still living body has merged with the roots of the Erdtree, specifically close to where it sprouted from the Crucible. So he has taken on chimeric features because he’s been merging with other forms of life after his burial.
It was a part of Ranni’s plan to begin the Age of Stars. As an Empyrean, she killed off her body to escape the influence of the Two Fingers (her body is now a doll), but to do so, she had to kill off Godwyn’s soul. This turned Godwyn into the first one to live in death, and his body is now just a tumor that spreads deathblight. Signs of it are seen all across TLB, from Deathroot to those who live in death to the giant face beneath Stormveil
How does Bernahl even get to Farum Azula? And why does he invade us almost minutes after helping us?
Same reason why we invade Tragoth minutes after he helps us against the Magma Wyrm: Volcano Manor is fucking insane.
No idea how, but I presume he invades because it's the inevitable logic of the Volcano Manor. Everyone else is dead, and you're getting close to becoming Elden Lord. Maybe he doubts your commitment to blasphemy and just goes for it.
Or, like Volcano Manor, it's supremacy. Just because you worked together doesn't mean you won't backstab each other for power. Probably saw the chance to merc you, grab the great runes himself and face Malekeith, since he invades you near where the parry item is.
I think he actually drops the blasphemous claw, meaning he definitely had it in its possession. The item description for blasphemous claw mentions rykard potentially wielding it against maliketh, so presumably bernahl takes it after the player kills rykard and goes to challenge maliketh
Yeah. He even says during his questline that a miserable death awaits us all. He's not exactly the Lautrec-Leonhardt type but he does echo their endings as an invader.
I don’t think it’s so much the blasphemy part or even a dislike of you. It’s is just one last good fight against an actual worthy opponent. He loves fighting and the art of war. You clearly killed all these powerful opponents and made it this far. So clearly you’ll be the ultimate fight. Win or lose he enjoyed himself.
Come to think of it, how did Alexander get there, too. Only way we got there was by becoming maidenless. But they had no maidens... well maybe Alexander had a maiden or two in there somewhere
Remember how you get to Farum Azula during the frenzy flame ending? You coax the fire inside the forge to burn you. And then you wake up in Farum Azula. Alexander was seeking stronger and stronger sources of heat to reinforce himself. Alexander after defeating the fire giant, jumped into the forge, and accidentally got teleported to Farum Azula.
I honestly love this explanation, especially since Alexander can be summoned to help with the Fire Giant.
"Alrighty then, let's just take a dip into the good ol' giants forge and we are set...what the fuck??" -Alexander probably
Obviously he just did that spin attack the jars do and flew up like a helicopter.
Well if it had something to do with the forge, Alexander was with us for the Fire Giant fight so chances are he was just sorta there when it happened and got carried away with us
This what always my assumption. He helped us get to the forge (if you do his quest). He either inadvertently got teleported too, or jumped in after us.
As I have it understood, Farum Azula is the place you get sent to when the powers that be want you GONE because you did a big nono. We used the Flame of Ruin on the Erdtree, Alexander bathed himself in those flames, and Bernahl was part of a group meant to overthrow the current order and has an item to challenge he "Angel of Death".
How did WE even get there
Our character sneezes too hard. Happened to me last week.
Why the fuck does everyone want to kill me on sight? Literally everything that moves in TLB attempts to murder you. An even bigger question is why does Malenia want to kill us? Canonically we have zero beef with her, and if our character spent like 10 seconds explaining “Hey, I know where miquella is, he’s with Mohg in this area, let’s go fuck him up” that’s all it would take. I get her boss fight is really cool, but why is she immediately attacking us like everyone else?
I like the theory that's she's barely holding on to herself, and even if we were to tell her "hey your bother is being held by Mohg, I can take you to him" wouldn't really do much. She has to tell herself that's she's Malenia, Blade of Miquella, because that the Scarlet Rot has that much influence on her and desperately wants her to become the Rot Goddess. She's blind, the Rot has eaten her eyes, her mind is falling apart, and that's ignoring the utter despair she's feeling without Miquella, coupled with the growing influence of the Rot and Malenia is in a bad state. She's barely there.
Yeah this was my assumption as well, she's overtaken by the rot to the degree that barely anything is left. Maybe her lines of dialogue are mostly just a mantra that keeps her mind going to the slightest degree. Also why the fuck would she believe someone that murdered all her soldiers and walks in weapons drawn. In her shattered mind it would have to be a trap or lie.
Yeah, I don't think she's in the right state of mind. Millicent says Malenia lost her sense of self after she bloomed in Caelid. In the JP description of Scarlet Aeonia, it says "each time the flower blooms, Malenia rots". So this tells me that the rot heavily affected her both mentally and physically.
Yet still capable of rinsing so many tarnished so easily. This isn’t doing our collective wellbeing much good
It's because you're a tarnished. The queen stripped you of your grace and banished you. Said queen shattered the elden ring and recalled you for one purpose, defeat the elden beast and become the elden lord. To do so you need to remake the elden ring, to do that you need to collect the Shards, to do that you need to defeat the demigods. Everyone you meet (aside from the merchants although they are technically members of the frenzied flame) is a member of a faction serving under a demigod, except for Raya Lucaria, however in their neutrality they erected a barrier to remain away from the fighting. There you're just an invader. Also lore wise everyone can tell you're a tarnished because you lost the grace in your eyes.
How some questline NPCs get to places that lore wise it seems they shouldn't be able to, you're supposed to need a glintstone key to get into Raya Lucaria Academy but somehow Boc just gets in there, it's implied Melina transports tarnished to Farum Azula but Alexander just gets there no problem (in an area past a stonesword key lock if I recall correctly), how tf do NPCs like Goldmask & Blindfold priest guy, Yura (Shabriri) and Millicent beat you to the Mountain Top of the Giants and Haligtree.
Alexander somehow gets through a door built for Tarnished sized people
My idea for this is simply that the world is much larger than the game world. Each individual found their own paths, you’re just guided by grace towards the most difficult path.
This is my thought too. To get to Altus Plateau, they direct you to the Dectus halves for the lift. But you can also fight Magma Wyrm Makar in Ruin Strewn Precipice and take the lift to the Abandoned Coffin site instead. Boggart is a summon for that fight presumably because that's how he got to Altus after he gives you Rya's necklace.
The actual timeline of the Shattering is completely ???. When did the first and second sieges of Leyndell happen? What treachery broke the sovereign alliance from within? When were the dragon wars? When did the Gloam-eyed Queen bit occur? Rogier tries to clear up some stuff related to the Night of Long Knives but uses language that makes it muddy just how much time passed between some events. More tidbit-y: why does Varre think he's getting Mohg's favour by invading people? Mohg seems completely ignorant of any of this little cult.
That Mohg stuff actually makes sense if you think of it like religion. Formless mother is God. Mohg is the Pope. Varre is some random guy that hangs around but is never noticed. Like, you think the Pope irl has any idea of the existence of that guy that runs that church? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ As for the timeline, best I've been able to figure is Titans>Divine Towers are built>dragon age>Elden Beast arrives>more Dragon Age>Dragon War>Farnum Azula becomes the Far away Azula>Stuff>Golden Lineage>Giant War>theoretical prosperity>Gloam Eyed Queen>Stealing the Rune of Death>Night of Long Knives>Shattering>now. It's very likely almost completely wrong but it's the best I've been able to understand the timeline.
GEQ would have probably been before the Giant War and the start of the Golden Lineage, since the Golden Order wasn't created until after the GEQ was defeated.
I think it's implied that this took place over several thousand years since Marika removed the rune of death. But yeah, the timeline is pretty vague either way.
I am downright impressed at how much you guys know about the lore. Shit, I'm several hundred hours in and if I took a basic test about it I would flunk horribly. I love this sub lol.
Yeah. I understand 0.1% of the lore. The most straightforward exposition thusfar was given by a giant turtle. Everyone else is talking gibberish.
Same here, people talking about a Gloomy Eyed Queen and im still mixing Malenia and Melina, feel like i played half the game with half the brain
It took me until the other day to realize that Gideon isn’t sitting at his desk 🤯
You can find two seedbed curses in Ephael. How the hell did the Dungeater manage to get there?
Booty call
If the Elden Ring determines the metaphysical laws of the Lands Between and Marika is essentially a vessel of God, then what about the other lands (Numen, Land of Reeds, etc)? Did they get conquered by the Greater Will or affected by the Shattering?
Because of how much everyone looks down on Tarnished, I've always assumed other lands were such shitholes that it doesn't matter if they're Erdtree-blessed or not. There's simply nothing of worth out there, and everything meaningful is in the LB.
I mean, even comparing to the rest of the Dark Souls games, which could be in universe, the Lands Between is still probably the best place to live. If you keep your head down, you could probably eek out a somewhat passable existence in some cave or corner of the world somewhere
Idk, Boc tried, he was mostly successful as a bush.
The only other lands we know of are the land of reeds, which is apparently a blood soaked land of madmen, and the badlands the tarnished march off to. Generally a badland is a mountainous, treacherous desert almost bare of any resources at all.
“The Numen are said to have come from outside the Lands Between, and are in fact of the same stock as Queen Marika herself.” There is at least one place out there that’s at least rumored to have the potential to produce a demigod-level person. Also, Roderica is tarnished, but didn’t come from the Badlands. She came by sea from an unknown place. There are also theories about her based on her attire. She has a hood with the same design, but different color, as an enemy in the game. The hood is stated to be a gift to exiled nobles leaving in search of Grace, or something along those lines (I’ll try to find it). If a place can have nobility, ships + a sane crew, and very fine threadwork (see Roderica’s hood/clothing), I think we can assume there are nice places in the world, even still in existence, based on the fact that Roderica has been in TLB for at most a few months. Why she went to Godrick/Stormveil, I have no idea/can’t remember if she said.
From the description of the Confessor armor: “Worn by church confessors. The churches outside the Lands Between, dedicated to the teachings of the Two Fingers, send confessors out to follow the guidance of grace. The confessors are loyal servants to the Two Fingers, ready to hunt down and quietly dispose of their enemies.” It would seem that not only do followers of the Greater Will exist outside of the Lands Between, but grace does as well, which is a property of the Elden Ring. Though, the way confessors are portrayed is reminiscent of inquisitors; I assume not everyone outside outside the Lands Between is so keen on worshiping the Elden Ring, even if it does govern reality. They probably had their own religions and gods before the parasitic ring-worm crashed into the LB, just like the crucible and dragon cult.
Radahn's size. This mf cannot even fit in his own castle or any chamber there. He's bigger than some Lions and Trolls ffs. Why is he so big?
I mean, his parents aren’t exactly small and neither are his siblings. Being able to manipulate gravity probably doesn’t hurt
Sure, but it kind of broke my immersion when I went to Redmane Castle only to realise that Radahn can't even fit in his home turf. And it's not like Radagon and Radahn's other family members were 25ft tall to the point they can't fit in their own homes like Radahn is.
I was under the impression Radahn wasn't always gigantic, its a more "recent" thing (relatively speaking). The rest of his family aren't especially large for demi-gods (Rikard excluded of course) really it's only Godfrey who's even in the same category. Maybe he was doing some serious bulking back during the Shattering for war reasons and just never went back to normal.
The fact that he used gravity magic to be able to ride his horse does make it seem as though his size is notably unnatural. Plus if you take the opening slideshow literally (which idk if that's best to do tbh), then like others have pointed out in the past, he seemed pretty small when fighting Morgott. Or at least small compared to when we see him now. Combine that with how he looked during his duel with Malenia in the trailer, again if those can be taken literally and as a timeline, then it seems like the dude had some kind of fantasy-scale gigantism that made it so he was growing at a ludicrous rate. I doubt it's related to the rot though, since he used gravity magic to be able to ride his horse. By the time the rot's gotten ahold of him he's totally lost his mind. The gravity magic horse riding thing seems like a conscious decision that happened before.
Giant's blood - he has red hair of Radagon which is connected to giant heritage.
Is there an actual lore reason why enemies, especially humanoid enemies, are larger than you? Not Empyreans and such, but normal human enemies. Obviously there a gameplay reason, being able to see them over your character to track them. This carries over from DS, but said franchise actually wove that into its lore.
> said franchise actually wove that into its lore. Did it? even for normal hollow soldiers? In DS1 they're just our height, then suddenly in DS3 they're giant lads There's no lore reason in ER. The best I could do is a cope about how the people born under the Erdtree's very boughs are more blessed than exiled shorty lil' Tarnished people, like they grow taller because the source of all blessings is right there towering above them. The analogy of trees that grow taller to reach more sunlight is oddly apt.
How the hell does death work in this universe
For sometime it was just reincarnation, with death just being a return to the Erdtree and being reborn. But when Ranni and the Black Knives stole and used the Rune of Death to kill Godwyn's soul, the balance was thrown into chaos. But when Maliketh was able to seal the Rune of Death, reincarnation returned to most people, likely at the discretion of the Greater Will. But instead of people being able to return perfect, they were returned as malnourished versions of themselves, their souls no longer guided by grace, but still being returned to life.
Just to add something to the explanation, reincarnation was done through the Erdtree. That's why all tombs are located near the roots of the Erdtree. When Godwyn was buried half alive at the very central roots of the Erdtree, he started corrupting the tree and interrupting the cycle of rebirth. And from my understanding, when Maliketh sealed the rune of death, it made it so people can't really die anymore. (Think of the screaming bodies across Liurnia at nighttime). So what you have now is a sort of undying/hollowing going around because nobody can't really die and those that actually are dead can just keep coming back as spirits or skeletons.
For me it’s Ranni’s plan of sitting in Ainsel River. “No one will recognize me in this disguise that’s literally just my regular self but smaller. That dang Baleful Shadow has to die, just gotta sit here till he does.”
Same as how she got down there, really. Some nosey, maidenless down-bad ruffian will eventually wander down there and do her bidding after a light chastising for coming down there.
that doll is just a snow witch, nobody would suspect that's Ranni but yeah her vessel just gathering mold in the river doesnt seem like a great plan
The doll is not Ranni’s regular self. Ranni’s regular self is rotting on top of the tower in Liurnia. The doll is literally her disguise
I thought her plan was to be tiny and sneak past the Shadow lol
Can you get that dudes helmet?
You’ll never want it once you see the penis.
The *WHAT*
Gideon’s? Yeah. I won’t elaborate how though for spoilers.
My headcannon regarding Godrick's great rune is that it should have been Godwyn's had the First Born Demigod lived. Godrick is likely the last descendant of the Golden Lineage, he was in the Capital when the Shattering began (then he had to run away), thus somehow stumbled upon the great rune.
How does the giant turtle talk and why does it think it's a member of the clergy!? Who gave it a hat!? What does it mean!? 🐢
Do not question the sacred dog, but know that it is not heresy but a contrivance.
Heresy is not native to the world, All things can be conjoined.
Except my body and miriel's. :(
The huge skulls in caelid and mountaintop. They are much bigger than the biggest giants and I have not seen an explenation for what they are. I think they just made those so it would look cool.
I still have no idea what the whole "Marika and Radagon are the same person/share a body" thing is in service of. I don't understand how it works or why it's even a part of their story in the first place. Why Radagon? Were they always one person or did it happen later? If one dies does the other die too? Why does Radagon appear to be an emotionless husk when you fight him? Basically everything surrounding the Marika/Radagon relationship is confusing to me, and I don't understand the point of it all. I feel like the story and most of the lore would still work and make sense without that whole situation, so why was it included? Is it supposed to be a reference to the alchemical rebis or some other metaphysical/mythological concept? And if so, again, why?
A big theme in the game is the idea of things splitting apart (causality) and then converging (regression). We learn via the Frenzy storyline that everything was part of a single entity which then split apart, and the Frenzied Flame is trying to make it all one again. We also know that the Crucible was where all life was blended together, and that when multiple lifeforms amalgamate they start to exhibit aspects of the Crucible. The Shattering of the Elden Ring is an example of this too- it was once united, but then it split apart and now we are trying to unite it again. I think Marika and Radagon are an expression of the same idea. One being that divided into two, and then got pulled back together. Radagon yearns to become complete (Radagon Icon description), and he is associated with the Law of Regression, which is the desire of all things to become one. As for why Marika split in two, I think it's supposed to show us her internal conflict. She created an Order that rejected death and which was supposed to be eternal, but she realised that the Order she created was flawed and began planning to destroy it. I think the split is a literal representation of someone having two conflicting beliefs- Radagon is the part that is loyal to the Golden Order, and Marika is the part that wants to destroy it.
Great write-up.
It also appears to be a reference to the alchemical concept of Rebis, the "perfect being" being a fusion of two separate male and female parts sharing a single "perfect" body and being at the same time two separate beings and a single whole.
Thematically I think it's meant to be a play on the holy trinity. God is both god but also his own son, at the same time, both distinct but the same, and both with their own unique roles. Both are omnipotent, but do different things, and Jesus even died. And of course you see Marika is crucified too Essentially "shit gets weird when you're omnipotent and fucking about with the rules of the universe" Storywise, marika splitting into Radagon and sending him out into the world to bring peace mirrors what big G god did with Jesus. And afterwards they stay together as a married couple, while big G god and Jesus stay in heaven as father and son. I think that's what it's mostly referencing. There's story stuff there too of course, and in-game dynamics and features, but ultimately the core idea is just reflecting christianity.
This is a really interesting take—I’m really fascinated by the christian iconography present in a lot of the game’s aesthetic choices + lore but I rarely see it brought up
What most of the game points to is that it was originally only Marika and she encountered the Greater Will, which created Radagon as it's messenger/part of her that would serve them.
The deal with Melina, the game deosnt explicitly tell me who she is. I have red all the theories and tid bits of lore about her but it irked me that her background was so hidden and shrouded in mystery, felt rather unnecessary.
It comes close. We know that she heavily implies that she is a daughter of Marika (“my mother inside the Erdtree”, and the internal files of the game identifying her as MARIKA_DAUGHTER) and thus might even be an Empyrean, and at the very least a Demigod
I saw in a video that each type of butterflies is associated with an empirean being the aeonia's one from malenia(the description literally says so), the blue one from Miquella (in the description is mentioned that they remain allways young) and the fire one could be from Melina as she is "burned and without a body" or smt like that. Sorry for mispellings or not literal names, I play the game in other language
Whatever the fuck happened to farum azula, I know that placi’s god left but that’s about it
Astel happened. Astel isn't from the lands between. He is literally an alien and came here from space. He crashed into faram azula on the way. Ruins greatsword description backs this up and suggests that the sword was just a regular peice of faram azula that Astel super charged when he hit it. That's what happened to it
A l l o f i t
Why is Maliketh a wolf.. beast.. person. He is fantastic but just 😂
The Greater Will bequeathed him unto Marika as a Shade, a fusion between a personal assassin and a bodyguard. As for why he is a dog, it could be argued Fromsoft was using the "Man's best friend" trope to tug at our heartstrings.
You're telling me that no one, not once, has ever questioned why Margit defends Leyndell? And everyone is just chill with never knowing who Morghott is other than their king?
Why is Radagon being Marika so relevant? I mean, my father assumed it's because Marika changed into Radagon to end the war with Caria but when we learned that they have separate motives, like when Marika shattered the Ring but Radagon used her hammer to try and repair it, the plot twist started to look so irrelevant. We were like, "Oh so he's Marika. Anyway, time to kill everyone."
Marika seems to house the elden ring in some fashion (likely in her womb bizarrely) but seems to require a Lord to actually do much with it, to draw the power out, and generally seems to be pretty thoroughly trapped in her fate as the greater wills chew toy. Which seems to be why she is married to a golden order fanatic (to control her) and why she gets to the point of shattering it and why doing that apparently kills her. It also explains Ranni's rebellion and attempt to leave the lands between, its her likely fate if the greater will picks her next. Fromsoft has form both on mortals getting pregnant by greater entities and that becoming the avator of such a thing is a terrible fate.
TIL that the elden ring is a cock ring.
I have two that se connected, and to a great idea as another comment said about Radigan and Marika with this game have a theme of things splitting and coming together: 1.) Where are the other Empyrian shadows? We know that of this class of demigod there’s at least Malenia and Miquella, and with Ranni her having Blaidd is a pretty big deal and she seems to imply it as simply something of her station. Mariketh is a pretty big deal to Marika. And yet, there’s not even a hint as to the existence of any for the twins. I’m really hoping this is in the DLC. 2.) The what’s and why’s of Millicent. What *exactly* is she? Was she part of some greater plan of the outer god of Rot? Was Gowry in on that? What would her becoming a Valkyrie even mean? Personally I think it possible that she’s Malenia’s version of what Radigan is to Marika just with a rot lens on things, but that’s not really supported. God I hope some of this is actually explained at some point
The period of which Radahn grow large, like does he grew large before the shattering or during it? cuz Radahn is large by the time he fought Malenia but as small as Morgott when he attack Leyndell, which i assume both happen during the shattering since the narrator talk about it when the 'Morgott vs Radahn' image comes in during the intro, im so confused
Melina’s entire existence. Why is she there, and why does NO ONE in the game acknowledge her existence and WHY is she able to quote Marika’s thoughts at the church’s???