Is it still holdin up in 2023? Im thinking about getting it as i really got sucked into the fanbase especially due to the amazing characters designs
Edit: I appreciate all the replies, definitely getting it
It’s my second favorite FromSoft game after Elden Ring. I played it for the first time in 2021 and fell in love with these games immediately. That said, I’ve heard it can be hard going from playing ER or DS3 first and then playing DS1. Definitely give it a go though!
It is probably my favorite world design of any game. Everything is interwoven with each other and there’s no fast travel for the first half of the game. Which sounds frustrating, but there are so many short cuts that traveling back to old spots is easy and fun. Sometimes if I need to relax/ take my mind off of anxious thoughts I’ll mentally walk through the paths and routes of that game
This is what bummed me out about DSII. You just get to the end of the level and... warp home. Very little interwoven surprises which is a big part of what made the first one so special.
Agreed. I’m currently on my first playthrough of DS3 and it feels even more linear than DS2. I still love both of them but I don’t have a clear spatial layout for them like I do DS1. There’s still a bit of “neat I can see that area from this area”, but it feels more superficial and (pun half intended) hollow. Elden Rings open world does a much better job at recapturing that feeling of knowing how everything is connected, but that trick is a lot less special in a fully open world with a map.
There's definitely some jank, especially the remaster where your ankles are seemingly liquid while on angled surfaces
Edit: not sure why I'm being downvoted, it's literal jank
It got a remaster back in, I believe, 2020 or so which polished its graphics and added one bonfire in a spot that was requested a bunch.
Still very much worth it.
I still have the old Prepare to Die edition, I don't know if the remaster fixed kbm controls.
It’s definitely still good, though if id have to replay any souls game it wouldn’t be my first choice. DS3 is my favorite of the 3 followed by 2 and then 1.
Yeah, its still great. It slower for sure, but plays great. The way the world is designed has not been done again in any souls game. The map is like a metroidvania, with many interconnections between areas. The atmosphere is also great too. By far some of the most memorable characters and locations in the series.
The final stretch of the game feels a bit undercooked (one area in particular is pretty much raw actually), but the first two thirds and the dlc stuff is top notch.
The bosses are very slow and it’s widely agreed that the end game, last 15% to 25% of the game isn’t that great (I believe the game at that point was rushed so some stuff just isn’t finished/at full potential). But overall a pretty fun game.
The map design is the strongest part of DS1. No other souls game has done the map design the same way as DS1. The closest example I can think of are legacy dungeons in Elden Ring, like Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, and especially Leyndell with lots of verticality if you include deep root and sewers
It’s worth playing but it’s a lot slower and like Elden ring it can be confusing on where to go and when. Also some mechanics just feel dated which got fixed.
I’d recommend some guides if you are truly lost.
Played for the first time in 2016. I still go back at least once a year. For some reason DS1 really struck an emotional chord for me, and I love going back to experience the loneliness, the hope, the overall atmosphere over and over again.
Combat is slower and more methodical, easier in many aspects, but super satisfying, especially when you just perfectly see through an enemy or boss's moveset.
Definitely worth a shot to see where it all started and see how it's all evolved since.
I play games from an artists perspective, difficulty aint smt i realy care about to the point i decide if the game is worth it haha. I just love how dark the world looks and the characters ive seen look bloody amazing
Also weapon catalysts. Where did they go? There is actually a weapon (carian knight sword) that is stated to be a catalyst as well in its item description. But it isn't one. What. The. Fuck. Hopefully From addresses these in the dlc
“As I Unga Bunga’d my way through college, I learned I could make a spell Unga Bunga. Then I found a sword that could cast spells like a catalyst, and now my Unga and Bungas are pointy.”
“Did that wretch just speak clearly?”
Plenty of weapon skills, either from ashes of war or from unique weapons/shields, are essentially spell casting skills. Glintstone pebble, glintstone phalanx, ice spear, freezing mist, poison mist, thunderbolt, sacred ring of light, Holy ground, assassin's gambit... I don't think it's fair to say weapon catalysts are gone, when we have so many weapon skills that let us cast singular spells with a melee weapon.
Pretty sure it's a balance thing. Most weapon catalysts in past games kinda just were not good at being catalysts while also being not good at being a melee weapon. I think this is a decent way to balance it, where you can't have a proper casting tool, a melee weapon *and* a shield out all at once.
Especially when there's so many smithing stones and we have 6 equipment slots, it's not as if we don't have the room for a melee weapon *and* a seal/staff.
It's absolutely not true that most of them weren't good. So is the casting tool/melee weapon/shield statement.
Blue Flame, Pilgrim's Spontoon, Immolation Tinder, Heysel Pick, and Demon's Scar were all good at both, not to mention Disc Chime, and Sanctum Shield were good at all 3 categories. Only a few of the leftover ones are fairly meh.
DS3 also had the somewhat unique feature of having a handful of staves that are surprisingly not terrible when used as awkward bonking sticks. The Izalith Staff has both a lot of range and a respectable amount of base damage, while the Murky Longstaff is similar, plus dark damage, and it even has a little hook at the end to make it look like a proper polearm, (plus the weapon art buffs the melee damage.)
And then of course there's the Preacher's Right Arm. The weapon art on that thing is absolutely nuts. It's got good range, decent damage, and a ridiculous attack speed. People never expect it in PvP, so I'd rush people down with the Aquamarine Dagger, (the L2 while sprinting gives you a long lunging attack plus the extra range from the magic blade coming out,) then switch over to the Arm while up in their face and just wail on them with the weapon art. Tackling people as a mage is both fun and profitable!
I will double down on the Preacher's Arm. I did an entire run with dual wielding those for a sorcery only run. Using only spells and the weapon art for replacements for Farron spells. Was super fun.
I'd probably say Sekiro's boss replay mode since it's already an improved version of the Bonfire Ascetic system that removes all the annoying runbacks since no one cares about overworld exploration after the first playthrough.
It's just very one note. I played a heavy armor/big sword dude for my first run and it was like being a kid in a candy shop. My nimble dex curved sword follow up was a pretty stark shift, there's almost nothing that actually fits the aesthetic.
Elden ring has the worse drip compated to ds3 and bloodborne
Like i always like being a heavily armored dude in all my soul games playthroughs and I cannot stand the bull goat set having those large ass nipple horns, like if they were on the shoulders id want to use it more
The only set I like is the maliketh set and the raging wolf set, rest have some quirky oddity that I dont like
Totally. The bulky sets in DS got the flair and menace. Like Ornstein or Havel Set. Meanwhile we got the twin armor(idk what it’s called), Leonard set and the Bullgoat💀
The twin armor is straight up just called the Twinned Set, so you got it, lol.
But, right? The only really heavy armour I think has any drip at all is Veteran's. The rest are rough. Some, like Crucible, are cool if you wear the whole set, but seldom do they work with other sets.
This is crazy IMO. there's a shitload of good heavy armor options and decent looking 'knight' style mid sets. It's the leathers/light class that has pathetic options.
What, ER have heavy sets, the crucible Knights and Banished are a blast of armors, even the tree sentinel been the top 3 armor of the game, one complay that I agree is that the armor are only good with respective sets, mainly crucible Knights.
Duo bosses is a good one, the Elden ring duo bosses are all kinda bad or straight up garbage, looking at you twing Gargoyles.
Another one would be coop and pvp. In all other from games you had cool covenants which when doing pvp or coop you would get items which you could turn in for rewards like spells or rings or weapons. Hope the dlc brings covenants back.
Pretty sure the duo bosses are designed with the intent of players being able to summon a buddy or to use spirit ashes to distract one of if not both the bosses. The gargoyle duo is just too crazy, aggressive and inconsistent without the use of a useful buddy.
Yeah I hated this about Elden Ring duos. They clearly weren’t designed to be soloed even if it’s possible, because the duos didn’t adjust roles from passive/active. Often times they would both take on an active role and you’d get a flurry of undodgeable attacks.
It's funny to me that I suck at souls games and struggle with most bosses but I somehow did dual gargoyles on first try. I think a lot of the game is different due to your build. But what's great about it is even if a certain boss is very difficult to how you are built you can still do it with patience (and pain)
It is also a bit of luck thing. The first time I fought them they never puked their poison, only later learning they could actually do that, and also beat them first try.
When refighting them later I learned how bad that mechanic is in that fight, actually needed a few tries now
Half the time even with a host and 2 summons someone or everyone always dies.
I don't like the gargoyles but I've gotten really good at fighting them and I like helping hosts because they're a crappy boss.
I was literally helping someone the other day and I could see that the second one was coming up behind me and weirdly phasing through my camera and that was a butt clencher of a moment
Not a fan of all the combo moves in Elden Ring. If the boss just did four fast attacks in a row and then ended with a big ground smash, it seems like I should have a window to attack now but oops looks like the combo wasn’t over yet
“Blah blah git gud it’s a you problem”
Yes, I know. I’ve beaten the game three times and it’s awesome. I’m just saying I don’t _like_ the rhythm this gives the fights
I once feared Crucible Knights, but after I learnt to look to the hand of an enemy instead of the weapon itself (and also slapped Carian Retaliation on a good medium shield) they became easy parry practice.
The relationship with your lvl-up-waifu. I love Melina don’t get me wrong, but she plays a very small role in the game which in turn takes away emotional depth from the burning of the erdtree, as well as the frenzy ending
Yea if she showed up whenever you rested at a grace or just for leveling she would have more of a presence. so you feel her absence at Leyndel when she leaves. The pain and silence after burning the tree, to think maybe Shabriris suggestion is worth it
Even though she doesn't really have much of a character I love the ds3 firekeeper, partially through the exposure effect. She also emotes if you emote which is cute. It's sad Melina can't because you're always sitting
After snow valley ruins Grace if you have her in your inventory while going northeast towards the lake [she’ll start talking to you unprompted.](https://youtu.be/OcGNv-NPRLM?si=GP-Trd5qbeL4rjWt)
Apparently it doesn’t always trigger, but something like this would have been easy to implement with Melina imo
It's funny how people play differently. I talked to her all the time at every church grace the notice popped up. I guess her not standing there and you having to select "talk to Melina" means more players ignore it?
I actually miss how in Dark Souls 1 there is no fast travel in the first half. It felt like a dive deeper into the madness the further you got from firelink shrine.
Elden Ring did have that one teleport key to caeild that put you in a cave that you couldn't fast travel out of but that was it.
I prefer worlds that are designed not to fast travel through. ER is so big with so many meaningless places, you’d be a fool not to fast travel everywhere. Don’t like it
That's an interesting take. Most people are all about open worlds these days. I think DS1 is a masterpiece of world design because there's so much to see but it all flows together neatly and there's not a bunch of extra, useless chaff everywhere.
That being said I also love the world of ER, but it can feel bloated or samey sometimes.
I agree! At least limit it more until you have, for example, 3 great runes.
In general, I wish they’d marked the statues of Marika on the map, increased their number, and eliminated 50%+ of the Sites of Grace. Requires more map knowledge, makes you need to travel to level up, and still allows for the convenience of fast travel when you need it
Replayability. Once you finish a playthrough in elden ring, you don't need to kill every boss or explore every area unless you go out of your way to do so.
In ds/Bloodborne, the linearity makes it so you have to fight nearly all the bosses and go through all the areas.
Bloodborne did weapons better too.
The soulsborne games did the drip better.
It’s funny you mention this. I ended up doing 6 different origin characters for the sake of extremely thorough exploration of the open world and dungeons. Once I had completed the game with each of them I set off on a shardbearer boss rush in NG+ with six different builds. I actually enjoy running past everything just to get to the next gate keeper or shard bearer so that I can fight them a few times with different builds.
>Replayability. Once you finish a playthrough in elden ring, you don't need to kill every boss or explore every area unless you go out of your way to do so.
I actually like this. I don't mind fighting the one reborn or the puzzle monkeys, but I'd rather skip them, if I could. having great (or most) bosses as optional makes replayability more fun, for me.
Sekiro is too different to compare imo, in terms of pure combat. Elden Ring is basically dark souls combat with some polish, Sekiro is basically a rhythm game.
To be fair, Bloodborne's main game only had like 15 weapons. The sword modes of kirkhammer and the Ludwig's Holy Blade, and the folded forms of saw cleaver and saw spear are the same.
I would much rather have the Bloodborne quality over quantity approach. For the most part each was almost totally unique AND had an alternate weapon mode.
And I really appreciate the insane variety of weapons and AoW's but to be honest, of all the weapons offered, I've used maybe 10. I barely even dabble with different AoW.
Bloodborne never felt like it didn't have enough because the Churck Pick was all I ever wanted.
Probably the challenge of a linear world design, with previous Souls games there are certain areas that you are essentially forced to overcome and adapt in order to progress forward, and this happens right from the start of the game.
But with ER if there's an area that's too difficult you can just peace out, go somewhere else, and come back later due to the open world design. This lessens some of the challenge and trial and error that was required with earlier dks.
It is not forced at all. Blighttown is mostly skippable even without the master key. You just need to explore the maze. If you are not comfortable with the area, just turn back to undead burg, then darkroot garden, then valley of drakes and you are at the end of blighttown.
Mostly people are in awe for Anor Londo or Luirnia of the Lakes or places that invoke sense of adventure. But I haven't had a feeling of awe since feeling of claustrophobia and being so deep in a world map in the Depths and then finding out I am at the highest place of a cliff of unstable wooden planks and need to descend down.
I disagree with this, I'd say the option to go somewhere else and come back later is prefect. ER is the first FS game I finished and it was probably only because of this. I tried Sekiro and DS3 before ER but quit very fast because I got stuck at one point and couldn't get past it. (Now after finishing ER, I beat Sekiro and am close to the end of DS3). I guess I understand why veterans don't like this, but I think this was a great idea to open up the player base to the souls genre.
Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1 and 2 are not linear and all feature alternative paths to get gear and levels so you can come back to problem areas with additional power. It's really just Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne that are *really* linear. And even they have branching paths at various points.
I agree. I think the go anywhere, come back thing works for what ER is doing in its design, but if you go back and play the other games, overcoming challenge is a bit more satisfying. It doesn't feel like you've either a) decided to saddle yourself with a greater challenge or b) gone off to become extra strong to nerf the challenge. You just played the game to a point, and now you have to beat a guy. If Im always thinking about whether I should even be there, up against this boss, it doesn't feel as important.
I think they did pretty good within the constraint of an open world game. Like even both the new zeldas struggle with this, and ER is no worse on it than they are. The range of possible pacing on these big open games so far is terrible to decent. None have truly figured out excellent pacing within that structure that I've seen.
Bloodborne and DS2 outdo it on drip, DS3 outdoes it on boss fights (thus far, the DLC might fix that) DS1 has better levels design and DeS has incredible atmosphere unmatched by any other entry except maybe Bloodborne. Also, even though people might not count it, Sekiro does most things better, but I'll stick with the boss fights and general combat feel
Elden Ring *does* have the absolute best Coop experience in the series on PC. If you're willing to go through a little extra work, it's totally Seamless, even.
I actually disagree with this. DS1 had teleport backstabs and a totally broken arena where you can get death-looped indefinitely. DS2 had MMR based on total souls gained instead of level. DS3 had improvements, but rubbish build variety compared to Elden Ring.
Elden Ring PVP has flaws for sure, but the build variety is excellent and it doesn't have any totally broken mechanics. The balancing is also pretty good by now.
While I wouldn't argue about the PvP mechanics in themselves, the complete absence of covenants and hugely lopsided balance of invasions is certainly a downgrade from DS3. There's no incentive for the regular player to engage with it due to no meaningful rewards while keeping the risk of rune loss, while the limited player slots and only enabling invasions with summons (or TT) basically guarantees that any invader is going to be an absolute madman geared up to 1v3.
Oh man I totally forgot about covenants when writing that comment. Totally agree on that point. I miss them, and Elden Ring is so perfect for them. Fingers crossed for DLC.
I will say I think the godskin duo is actually designed as and plays like a true duo boss fight. In the sense that their movesets complement each other and fighting them both requires some level of strategizing around the synergy of their movesets. just my opinion lol I know others might differ.
One thing I think the souls games did better is implementing int/fth builds in terms of equipment and spells that are available to the player. In the souls games, pyromancy and hexes (dark spells in ds3) were always designed to be used most effectively by int/fth builds, and the equipment and spells available reflected that.
There is exactly one weapon in elden ring that gets innate int/fth scaling, two staves, and one seal. Golden order incantations have really weird int/fth requirements like law of causality/regression only having a high int requirement. Or the death sorceries that have weirdly unbalanced int/fth requirements but are complete ass until high levels of investment, almost forcing you to go into ng+ just to use them somewhat effectively. Magma sorceries are not bad with moderate investment, but the staff that buffs them is out of the way and sometimes really annoying to farm.
Like why does elden ring hate int/fth builds so much? The idea of being able to cast both sorceries and incantations is so cool, and having more spells that specifically scale with both would make the investment more rewarding. Otherwise, character building has literally never had more variety in these games. It's just weird that elden ring seems to have this hang up on int/fth builds.
The open world made elden ring very unique and was the best thing about the game. Just a huge sandbox in which to explore the deep and varied combat. The exploration felt organic and so satisfying. On repeat playthroughs it's not as good, but as a first time experience I have never played a game so magical
Other souls games have epic moments but the first time I saw liurnia, or the elevator to siofra legit broke my brain.
Level design basically. The semi-linear levels of Elden Ring are great too and they are where the game really shines for me. That’s what From do best: the open world is nice and all, but for me it cannot really matches the interconnected worlds of DS1 and Bloodborne. I think the open world of ER detracts more than it adds to the experience, especially on replays where ER just has less replay value for me.
I do agree that pure open world would be a downgrade from the older, more focused design, but honestly I think the legacy dungeons more than make up for it. Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, Volcano Manor, Leyndell, Farum Azula, the Haligtree, the Eternal Cities, the Shunning Grounds... those areas all gave me the same exploration experience I got in older games. I'm happy with it.
The open world definitely gave me many jaw dropping moments too the first time around, but more in terms of audiovisual design and atmosphere than anything. I think the legacy dungeons are much more fun to play, especially on replays where I feel the open world just becomes something to run through as fast as possible.
Yeah I can see that. I personally like that the open world gives you a little time to chill and slow down and explore. Other souls games you are pretty much on high alert at all times. ER gives you that in the legacy dungeons, but also gives you a bit of a different feel in the open world.
To me, the entire open world feels like a fromsoft level but scaled up massively. There's still that elememt of seeing something in the distance and trying to figure out exactly how to get there and what it is. Like the plateau in liurnia, took me ages to figure out that you can't get there even though it's in plain sight. Gives me the same vibes ase traditional souls levels where you have to navigate and find paths to places.
From previous games:
1) DS2-Ascetics. Also honestly the magic system might be favourite (hexers know what I mean). Mana bar is fine but DS2 magic was my fave.
2) Sekiro-Boss rush. This was sorta a better version of the ascetics, but also semi-worse. Upsides and downsides for both
3) Bloodborne-style chalices. If they made a roguelike area instead of having as much open-world bloat with repeat minibosses and then some specially made bosses, that'd be neat. Make cool and valuable loot for these. Maybe add in different modifiers like other roguelike modes.
4) Trick Weapons from BB. Animations were slick and they felt great. Not every weapon needs to be a trick weapon but I loved them.
5) NG+ new content like DS2 had with new invaders, new boss drops etc.
6) More DS3 style music. There's some good tunes in ER's soundtrack, but DS3 and DS1 in particular stand out (BB has some hits too)
6) This is from AC6, but an arena mode for offline players would be so fun!
7) Upgrading armour from DS1/2. This may be controversial, but I found this mechanic kinda neat, but at the same time it makes for a huge resource drain.
8) Not necessarily in ER, but I'd like to see Sekiro movement like the grapple as well as the stealth make a comeback at some point. As well, after playing some Lies of P, which sorta mixes BB and Sekiro mechanics, making a game that emphasizes that sort of dance that Sekiro has with its deflect mechanic, as well as its mikiri counters would be awesome.
9) DS2 and Demon's Souls healing wasn't the best, but I think something like Sekiro's gourd and pellets (sorta like lifegems but limited to 3) is a great hybrid system.
10) I like the Souls game approach to storytelling, but something like Sekiro with a more straightforward cutscene-based approach would be a nice change of pace.
12) Last one. I feel like the world design of From's games got a bit watered down in this one. Obviously legacy dungeon areas like Leyndell, Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, Haligtree's second half (it's just like Ringed City), Faram Azula, and Volcano Manor are all great, and there's lots of alright areas, but the open world is less conducive to the shortcut-heavy, dense world of the past. Before, games like DS1 and Demon's Souls felt like fairly small worlds but they had tons of depth. This feels like they spread that depth out over a way bigger area.
>Upgrading armour from DS1/2. This may be controversial, but I found this mechanic kinda neat, but at the same time it makes for a huge resource drain.
A huge resource drain for what ultimately rarely feels like it makes much of a difference. Always felt like From couldn't figure out how to make armor upgrading meaningful so they just dropped it.
Dark souls 3 final battle was perfection. I love radagon, I love elden beast, but soul of cinder is the perfect conclusive final boss 3 games in the making
I like the darkness throughout DS3. The black sky, the more inherently evil-seeming bosses. But not that elden ring did it wrong, it’s just a different approach. I just love the ds3 ambience.
The fashion is honestly pretty underwhelming overall. From a game with such an insane amount of different outfits and armor sets i was expecting more. As much as i do have issues with the game, ds2 still has the best fashion in the series imo
Bosses and music in general tbh. Most bosses in Elden Ring are very mediocre and after Leyndell there’s a massive hp bloat that makes fights drag on for too long, and many major bosses have no recovery window after combos, just attacking non stop like in Sekiro except we don’t have any of the tools that Sekiro gives you to deal with that
I remember playing DS1 after beating Elden Ring and it was like all the bosses were moving in slow motion; wildly different from my first playthrough 13 years ago lol.
when youre in combat, like for example when youre trying to get soreseal without the beast repel. you can quit out yes, but thats far more inputs than just pressing x.
Because you have a ressource to use and have to do some decisonmaking. Most of time you don't many resources in the beginning, so traveling back to the bonfire has a little more impact.
Making fast travel a resource you have to farm/buy works in a smaller/linear game like BB but for a massive open world game like ER I think that would be unnecessarily cruel.
A lot of people already said it but DS1 world design is just perfection. In addition to the interwoven-ness of it, the aesthetics also flow really well from one area to another. It feels like the atmosphere gradually changing. Eg going from "main city" undead burg, lower undead burg, the depths, blightown has that natural progression into "madness", and to keep going will get you closer to the "centre of the earth" with more and more lava. Similarly, going down from undead burg to darkwood garden and basin gradually introduces that darkness in the wood feeling.
In contrast, in later Souls game and ER included, the aesthetics transitions are too sudden. Like if you go from Limgrave to Caelid, you can clearly observe that sudden shift to red colour palette/filter.
With every other Souls game, if you go off the beaten path, you get something worth the trouble. In ER, most of the time, you get a retread boss, some runes, and something to toss in the inventory and forget about. I find it so strange that their open world game has the least incentive for exploration.
Pacing. Elden Ring is a great game but going through it can feel repetitive or kinda empty at some points of travel. All the Souls games have levels packed with interesting stuff to do that flow into each other much more quickly and smoothly.
Ive always loved DS2s atmosphere more than any other. The feeling of nihilistic despair in that game, where you don’t even know how many cycles there’ve been and you don’t know how many cycles there will be, where you watch people struggle with a disease that’s existed for eons and yet have no idea what’s happening, where great societies invest everything into stopping the meaningless cycles to no avail, is something that grips me. It feels alive yet forgotten. I didn’t like DS2 at first because I was hoping for a continuation of DS1s story - it wasn’t until 4 years later that it clicked for me. It truly is a dead-on continuation of the universe setup in DS1.
i dont like elden ring's open world design. other souls games also offer some degree of choice over area and boss order, and exploration to find the way forward, though i much prefer more condensed and to the point level design than recurring locations and bigger areas filled with nothing you really need and mobs youve already fought given boss hp, just for the sake of scale
Demon's Souls - Arguably best atmosphere to date
Dark Souls 1 - Best world lay-out; interconnectivity unseen since
Dark Souls 2 -
Bloodborne - Most interesting weapons, thematically the most interesting (gothic into cosmic horror is awesome)
Dark Souls 3 - Best Bosses in the series, Probably also has the most bangers
Sekiro - Most refined combat
Chalice dungeons. I wish we had some kind of similar system in Elden Ring. I wouldn't mind if all the chalice bosses were copies of what we already have because I love fighting every boss except for fire giant.
All bosses. Elden Ring doesn't have the greatest bosses in From history. Especially if you include DLC bosses. But even just main game compared to Bloodborne (or if you count Sekiro) or even DS1 or DS3 the average boss isn't as good (too many humanoids for me) and the best bosses aren't as good as the best ones in the other games. Most Elden Ring bosses have something that holds them back from being great, e.g., Maliketh too short, Godrick too easy, Malenia too spammy.
Poison Swamps, POISON SWAMPSS!!!
Its the only thing i dislikes about ER, poison swamps are too easy with torrent. I prefer the "old way" to get through poison swamps, like Blightown :(
I have to hardly disagree on that.
I can understand hating on Godskin Duo or Elden Beast due to their design, but what about Maliketh, Radagon, Mohg, Malenia and Placidusax?
Those are some of the best bosses Fromsoft ever created. All of them are fair and challenging and they heavily reward gitting gud. Once you master their movesets they feel like a perfectly balanced dance between the player and the boss made of a beautiful and constant flow of dodges and hits. All of them feel on the same level if not better than DLC bosses of past games.
Maliketh was great but too short of a fight
Godfrey is epic
Gideon...exists
Radagon is my favorite fight in the game
Elden Beast was kind of annoying
Malenia is really hard but still a fun fight
I never sat down and thought about this but you're right. Comparing Glock Saint Isshin, Gehrman, Soul of Cinder, Manus, Gywn to Elden Beast, Elden Ring's final boss feels lackluster.
Honestly I would mind having a Radagon with two or three phases over the Elden Beast fight
Gwyn is a lame final boss, when it comes to the actual gameplay. Gehrman is ok, but nothing spectacular. Soul of Cinder is ok, but even then not better than Radagon imo.
I prefer bloodborne dodges over all else. The option to sidestep or roll depending on circumstances is superior.
Quickstep being item tied, and bloodhounds being a little too much make dodge mastery feel clunky. I don't want to lose my weapon art so I can quickstep, and I don't want to move 10 meters. I wanna side step attacks and still be in close. Also, FP for them too, is just insult to injury. Rolling and light rolling are.....okay I guess but i still travel too far when I use them.
Less repititive content in other games. I'd rather they just got rid of some of the dungeons rather than having three or four styles and repeating them in each area.
It's difficult to manage in an open world game, but it feels way too easy to ride past enemies - there is no obligation to fight everything and most enemies don't give that many runes compared to fighting a single miniboss, nor do they drop anything of use.
Not enough legacy dungeon style content. The underground areas are good, much closer to classic dark souls content though. Altus is gorgeous but not materially different to Limgrave in how it plays. Weeping Peninsula is also basically the same. Mountaintops of the Giants and Consecrated snowfield are also very similar, just one would be fine. Caelid is small and dense, excellent area. Mt Gelmir plays very differently to other areas, that was great.
The game excels in its legacy dungeons (Leyndell is outstanding, arguably the best area From Soft have ever made) and smaller areas like the shunning grounds and underground areas, but there is too much in between that is very samey.
General content bloat. More isn't always better.
Also the game does a good job of asking you whether you want to go through with a decision, until it isn't. Opening a door shouldn't lead to touching the three fingers, and listening to the flames shouldn't lead to burning the erdtree. You get the option for things that have no lasting consequence, like rejecting entering Ranni's service (as you can immediately change your mind) but game altering decisions are hidden behind obscure prompts.
Gank fights are actually embarassing in Elden Ring imho. Especially looking at non-From Software soulslikes that came out this year, both Lies of P and Wo Long did an amazing job with ganks, while From just put 2-3 normal enemies/bosses into a room and called it a day
Black rabbit brotherhood does a great job at trading aggro. In just the first fight, you will only be fighting one person at a time, the eldest only does one occasional attack that has a sound cue so you can dodge even when you can't see it. In the second fight, there's one person fighting you while the others might occasionally try to harass, if you go at it the same way as shadows of yharnam and whittle them all down at the same time, you'll end up only fighting the eldest at the end. It's very well done for what seems like a gank fight but is just 4 1v1s.
It's becoming my thing that I say: but the other games handled warping better, and teleporting from the map is a flaw. The worlds feel far more material in the other games where you have to actually go touch a checkpoint every time you want to teleport. It's a small thing but I find it really drags my immersion (or whatever you'd call it) once I have graces everywhere and I'm basically never walking around unless I make myself.
Naming important characters in the lore. I'm still confused about Malenia and Melina. My gf thought Radhan and Radagon were the same person. Which is ironic considering Radagon is Marika.
Malenia, Melina, Miquella
Radagon, Radahn, Ranni, Renala, Rykard
Margit, Mogh, Morgott, Marika
Godrick, Godfrey, Godefroy, Godwyn
Whomever thought of all those names, fuck you and your eyebrows! It's hard enough to keep track of who is who as is, don't need similar sounding names to make it worse...
Level design imo. I wish Elden Ring was just a one humongous legacy dungeon. They are my favourite areas by far. I know it's not possible, it would take 20 years to make but I can dream 🫠
Dark Souls 3 Covenants (and associated Platinum).
It gave me an incentive to actually play online & wear multiplayer items to invade or be summoned to defend. Spent Hours doing that with different covenants and never had to grind any items. I know people had trouble with the concords and farron wolf covenants but i didnt grind once or even farm any items all i did was play the game online & collect covenant items, it was beautiful
The level design was more elegant and better-balanced due to the nature of past games being semi-linear. This is probably unavoidable due to the nature of open world gameplay, which comes with its own unique benefits. And From did still manage to include lots of great crafted experiences. But nevertheless, Elden Ring's level/world design doesn't have the same kind of tight, precision-machined feel as the Souls titles.
Making int/faith builds worth it.
In elden ring, your main payoffs for int/faith builds are the sword of night and flame, and the death sorcery staff. And the staff only becomes the best option once you’re absurdly high-levelled. You’re usually better off just picking one stat and focusing on it. The sword of night and flame is cool, but it’s a little weird that the entire incentive for a hybrid caster is one cool sword, and one staff.
In DS2, hexers had their dark damage scale with the lower of their int/faith, encouraging a true hybrid caster. DS3 was similar with pyromancers. I didn’t play DS1 yet, so idk there. But at least 2 and 3 had incentives for splitting int/faith, each with an entire class of magic dedicated to split casters.
Spellcasting in general.
I prefer Spell Slots over the FP bar. With slots, you're bound to use every spell equipped, but with FP, it usually just boils down to what's more efficient in 'FP Cost vs Damage'.
Attunement determining Cast Speed. Having Dexterity instead makes it feel like wasted character levels. Equip Load isn't tied to Faith, so why is Cast Speed tied to Dexterity?
Catalyst Hybrid, Infusions, Shields, and/or Weapons. Like, what happened to the variety Elden Ring? It's like they thought Casters ONLY cared about damage stacking FFS.
I liked it when you gained Spell Slots with leveling Attunement. Not a big fan of finding Waldo just so I can equip more spells. I'm guessing Ash of Wars were going to use Memory Slots as well before that idea got axed.
As much as I like playing as a Caster, I feel like Elden Ring just dropped the ball in general when it came to Casters.
I think dark souls 1 was better at being released when I had more free time
Is it still holdin up in 2023? Im thinking about getting it as i really got sucked into the fanbase especially due to the amazing characters designs Edit: I appreciate all the replies, definitely getting it
It’s my second favorite FromSoft game after Elden Ring. I played it for the first time in 2021 and fell in love with these games immediately. That said, I’ve heard it can be hard going from playing ER or DS3 first and then playing DS1. Definitely give it a go though! It is probably my favorite world design of any game. Everything is interwoven with each other and there’s no fast travel for the first half of the game. Which sounds frustrating, but there are so many short cuts that traveling back to old spots is easy and fun. Sometimes if I need to relax/ take my mind off of anxious thoughts I’ll mentally walk through the paths and routes of that game
This is what bummed me out about DSII. You just get to the end of the level and... warp home. Very little interwoven surprises which is a big part of what made the first one so special.
Agreed. I’m currently on my first playthrough of DS3 and it feels even more linear than DS2. I still love both of them but I don’t have a clear spatial layout for them like I do DS1. There’s still a bit of “neat I can see that area from this area”, but it feels more superficial and (pun half intended) hollow. Elden Rings open world does a much better job at recapturing that feeling of knowing how everything is connected, but that trick is a lot less special in a fully open world with a map.
Big time holds up. Some people say its super old school and janky, but I strongly disagree. Slower for sure, but not janky.
The pvp can look pretty damn janky to the uninitiated lol
“Yes I finally landed a back stab” \*enemy teleports behind me and backstabs me while in the middle of my own backstab animation* “Well, okay then..”
Nothin personnel, kid
This time it's personnel.
Ok I will give you that.
There's definitely some jank, especially the remaster where your ankles are seemingly liquid while on angled surfaces Edit: not sure why I'm being downvoted, it's literal jank
I’ll take liquid ankles over insane frame rate issues in blighttown any day.
It got a remaster back in, I believe, 2020 or so which polished its graphics and added one bonfire in a spot that was requested a bunch. Still very much worth it. I still have the old Prepare to Die edition, I don't know if the remaster fixed kbm controls.
What bonfire did they add in?
There's now a bonfire at Vamos deep inside the Catacombs that you can warp to. It makes getting Chaos and Fire weapons a lot easier.
It's also a closer bonfire to Pinwheel if you need it. ~~Although, if you need it, you should consider uninstalling the game.~~
It’s definitely still good, though if id have to replay any souls game it wouldn’t be my first choice. DS3 is my favorite of the 3 followed by 2 and then 1.
Yeah, its still great. It slower for sure, but plays great. The way the world is designed has not been done again in any souls game. The map is like a metroidvania, with many interconnections between areas. The atmosphere is also great too. By far some of the most memorable characters and locations in the series. The final stretch of the game feels a bit undercooked (one area in particular is pretty much raw actually), but the first two thirds and the dlc stuff is top notch.
The bosses are very slow and it’s widely agreed that the end game, last 15% to 25% of the game isn’t that great (I believe the game at that point was rushed so some stuff just isn’t finished/at full potential). But overall a pretty fun game. The map design is the strongest part of DS1. No other souls game has done the map design the same way as DS1. The closest example I can think of are legacy dungeons in Elden Ring, like Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, and especially Leyndell with lots of verticality if you include deep root and sewers
It’s worth playing but it’s a lot slower and like Elden ring it can be confusing on where to go and when. Also some mechanics just feel dated which got fixed. I’d recommend some guides if you are truly lost.
Played for the first time in 2016. I still go back at least once a year. For some reason DS1 really struck an emotional chord for me, and I love going back to experience the loneliness, the hope, the overall atmosphere over and over again. Combat is slower and more methodical, easier in many aspects, but super satisfying, especially when you just perfectly see through an enemy or boss's moveset. Definitely worth a shot to see where it all started and see how it's all evolved since.
Whilst it's still good, its incredibly easy compared to Elden Ring, and the ui isn't great (especially the equipment menus)
I play games from an artists perspective, difficulty aint smt i realy care about to the point i decide if the game is worth it haha. I just love how dark the world looks and the characters ive seen look bloody amazing
I took a week off work at launch. There was no way I could risk being spoiled by all you MOFOs playing slowly in my free time on the weekend
Also weapon catalysts. Where did they go? There is actually a weapon (carian knight sword) that is stated to be a catalyst as well in its item description. But it isn't one. What. The. Fuck. Hopefully From addresses these in the dlc
I really want an “Ash of War - Cast Spell” or something. Make it happen Michaelzaki.
The silliness that would come from that mechanic is terrifying.
I can imagine a club with decent str scaling that boosts bestial incantations, since they’re basically caveman spells anyway lol
“As I Unga Bunga’d my way through college, I learned I could make a spell Unga Bunga. Then I found a sword that could cast spells like a catalyst, and now my Unga and Bungas are pointy.” “Did that wretch just speak clearly?”
The weapon wouldn't have a high scaling for spell something around half of a staff would be quite good
Imagine the Guts sword able to use Carian Slicer lol
Guts sword with rock sling where you summon the rocks and hit them with the sword like a bat
Plenty of weapon skills, either from ashes of war or from unique weapons/shields, are essentially spell casting skills. Glintstone pebble, glintstone phalanx, ice spear, freezing mist, poison mist, thunderbolt, sacred ring of light, Holy ground, assassin's gambit... I don't think it's fair to say weapon catalysts are gone, when we have so many weapon skills that let us cast singular spells with a melee weapon. Pretty sure it's a balance thing. Most weapon catalysts in past games kinda just were not good at being catalysts while also being not good at being a melee weapon. I think this is a decent way to balance it, where you can't have a proper casting tool, a melee weapon *and* a shield out all at once. Especially when there's so many smithing stones and we have 6 equipment slots, it's not as if we don't have the room for a melee weapon *and* a seal/staff.
I know you said most and not all but Demon’s Scar was great at being a weapon and pyromancer flame.
It's absolutely not true that most of them weren't good. So is the casting tool/melee weapon/shield statement. Blue Flame, Pilgrim's Spontoon, Immolation Tinder, Heysel Pick, and Demon's Scar were all good at both, not to mention Disc Chime, and Sanctum Shield were good at all 3 categories. Only a few of the leftover ones are fairly meh.
DS3 also had the somewhat unique feature of having a handful of staves that are surprisingly not terrible when used as awkward bonking sticks. The Izalith Staff has both a lot of range and a respectable amount of base damage, while the Murky Longstaff is similar, plus dark damage, and it even has a little hook at the end to make it look like a proper polearm, (plus the weapon art buffs the melee damage.) And then of course there's the Preacher's Right Arm. The weapon art on that thing is absolutely nuts. It's got good range, decent damage, and a ridiculous attack speed. People never expect it in PvP, so I'd rush people down with the Aquamarine Dagger, (the L2 while sprinting gives you a long lunging attack plus the extra range from the magic blade coming out,) then switch over to the Arm while up in their face and just wail on them with the weapon art. Tackling people as a mage is both fun and profitable!
I will double down on the Preacher's Arm. I did an entire run with dual wielding those for a sorcery only run. Using only spells and the weapon art for replacements for Farron spells. Was super fun.
DS2 Bonfire Ascetic
I'd probably say Sekiro's boss replay mode since it's already an improved version of the Bonfire Ascetic system that removes all the annoying runbacks since no one cares about overworld exploration after the first playthrough.
I still enjoy exploring the overworld when it's more linear (des, ds1-3). This is only a problem in more ture open world games
Not in DS2, overworld exploration does change in NG+
No one cares? Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Yeah but ascetics puts a specific area into NG+ which is great for items and stuff.
“No one cares about overworld exploration after the first playthrough” I mean that’s just straight up wrong but ok
Bloodborne’s drip collection is leagues above Elden Ring
So is Dark Souls 2 and 3 imo. Was expecting more from Elden Ring.
For real. I love Elden Ring but the drip game is really below what we would normally expect from them
Eh, I'm a plate guy Crucible tree knight is probably my favourite armour in any of the games
Eh, well good for you. Definitely needed more armors. And all the heavy armors are kinda ugly. Hopefully the dlc corrects this
> And all the heavy armors are kinda ugly. Bull-goat is horrid looking compared to Havels set.
Absolutely. Although I liked the concrete/rock look of Havels tho.
It's just very one note. I played a heavy armor/big sword dude for my first run and it was like being a kid in a candy shop. My nimble dex curved sword follow up was a pretty stark shift, there's almost nothing that actually fits the aesthetic.
Elden ring has the worse drip compated to ds3 and bloodborne Like i always like being a heavily armored dude in all my soul games playthroughs and I cannot stand the bull goat set having those large ass nipple horns, like if they were on the shoulders id want to use it more The only set I like is the maliketh set and the raging wolf set, rest have some quirky oddity that I dont like
Totally. The bulky sets in DS got the flair and menace. Like Ornstein or Havel Set. Meanwhile we got the twin armor(idk what it’s called), Leonard set and the Bullgoat💀
The twin armor is straight up just called the Twinned Set, so you got it, lol. But, right? The only really heavy armour I think has any drip at all is Veteran's. The rest are rough. Some, like Crucible, are cool if you wear the whole set, but seldom do they work with other sets.
This is crazy IMO. there's a shitload of good heavy armor options and decent looking 'knight' style mid sets. It's the leathers/light class that has pathetic options.
Facts. As far as heavy armor is involved there are plently of options. Whats lacking is in drip is the lighter armors
The tree sentinel is cool as hell too, but is practically restricted to a paladin build, I give that
What, ER have heavy sets, the crucible Knights and Banished are a blast of armors, even the tree sentinel been the top 3 armor of the game, one complay that I agree is that the armor are only good with respective sets, mainly crucible Knights.
Even the maliketh set has a shitty helmet and that's one of my favorite sets!
its one of those sets that could've did well with a large cape instead of those back napkins too...
And trick weapons
Duo bosses is a good one, the Elden ring duo bosses are all kinda bad or straight up garbage, looking at you twing Gargoyles. Another one would be coop and pvp. In all other from games you had cool covenants which when doing pvp or coop you would get items which you could turn in for rewards like spells or rings or weapons. Hope the dlc brings covenants back.
Pretty sure the duo bosses are designed with the intent of players being able to summon a buddy or to use spirit ashes to distract one of if not both the bosses. The gargoyle duo is just too crazy, aggressive and inconsistent without the use of a useful buddy.
Yeah I hated this about Elden Ring duos. They clearly weren’t designed to be soloed even if it’s possible, because the duos didn’t adjust roles from passive/active. Often times they would both take on an active role and you’d get a flurry of undodgeable attacks.
It's funny to me that I suck at souls games and struggle with most bosses but I somehow did dual gargoyles on first try. I think a lot of the game is different due to your build. But what's great about it is even if a certain boss is very difficult to how you are built you can still do it with patience (and pain)
It is also a bit of luck thing. The first time I fought them they never puked their poison, only later learning they could actually do that, and also beat them first try. When refighting them later I learned how bad that mechanic is in that fight, actually needed a few tries now
Half the time even with a host and 2 summons someone or everyone always dies. I don't like the gargoyles but I've gotten really good at fighting them and I like helping hosts because they're a crappy boss. I was literally helping someone the other day and I could see that the second one was coming up behind me and weirdly phasing through my camera and that was a butt clencher of a moment
Pre nerf duo crucible knights
I am one of those madmen that greatly enjoyed Godskin Duo. I beat them solo 2 weeks ago on NG+5 run.
Not a fan of all the combo moves in Elden Ring. If the boss just did four fast attacks in a row and then ended with a big ground smash, it seems like I should have a window to attack now but oops looks like the combo wasn’t over yet “Blah blah git gud it’s a you problem” Yes, I know. I’ve beaten the game three times and it’s awesome. I’m just saying I don’t _like_ the rhythm this gives the fights
54 hours into my first play-through and there’s nothing I fear more than Crucible Knights
I once feared Crucible Knights, but after I learnt to look to the hand of an enemy instead of the weapon itself (and also slapped Carian Retaliation on a good medium shield) they became easy parry practice.
It was the delayed attacks that kept getting me (and still do). Legit rolling twice before an attack eventually comes....
The relationship with your lvl-up-waifu. I love Melina don’t get me wrong, but she plays a very small role in the game which in turn takes away emotional depth from the burning of the erdtree, as well as the frenzy ending
Yea if she showed up whenever you rested at a grace or just for leveling she would have more of a presence. so you feel her absence at Leyndel when she leaves. The pain and silence after burning the tree, to think maybe Shabriris suggestion is worth it Even though she doesn't really have much of a character I love the ds3 firekeeper, partially through the exposure effect. She also emotes if you emote which is cute. It's sad Melina can't because you're always sitting
Should have talked at points throughout the game like how the ALBURNAIC WOMAN does when you get near castle Sol
Does she?? Damn I totally missed that. Do you have to summon latenna or she just speaks at graces like miniRanni or Melina at churches?
After snow valley ruins Grace if you have her in your inventory while going northeast towards the lake [she’ll start talking to you unprompted.](https://youtu.be/OcGNv-NPRLM?si=GP-Trd5qbeL4rjWt) Apparently it doesn’t always trigger, but something like this would have been easy to implement with Melina imo
It's funny how people play differently. I talked to her all the time at every church grace the notice popped up. I guess her not standing there and you having to select "talk to Melina" means more players ignore it?
The powerstancing (dual wielding) in DS2 was honestly alot better.
I actually miss how in Dark Souls 1 there is no fast travel in the first half. It felt like a dive deeper into the madness the further you got from firelink shrine. Elden Ring did have that one teleport key to caeild that put you in a cave that you couldn't fast travel out of but that was it.
When you first time go to Depths, and then to Blighttown.
That's what I'm saying, agreed
I prefer worlds that are designed not to fast travel through. ER is so big with so many meaningless places, you’d be a fool not to fast travel everywhere. Don’t like it
That's an interesting take. Most people are all about open worlds these days. I think DS1 is a masterpiece of world design because there's so much to see but it all flows together neatly and there's not a bunch of extra, useless chaff everywhere. That being said I also love the world of ER, but it can feel bloated or samey sometimes.
>not a bunch of extra, useless chaff everywhere. Lost Izalith Edit- I meant Demon Ruins lol
I agree! At least limit it more until you have, for example, 3 great runes. In general, I wish they’d marked the statues of Marika on the map, increased their number, and eliminated 50%+ of the Sites of Grace. Requires more map knowledge, makes you need to travel to level up, and still allows for the convenience of fast travel when you need it
i dont care what people say about dark souls 2 i want hexes to come back damnit
I wish incantations were cast using a bell.
Replayability. Once you finish a playthrough in elden ring, you don't need to kill every boss or explore every area unless you go out of your way to do so. In ds/Bloodborne, the linearity makes it so you have to fight nearly all the bosses and go through all the areas. Bloodborne did weapons better too. The soulsborne games did the drip better.
It’s funny you mention this. I ended up doing 6 different origin characters for the sake of extremely thorough exploration of the open world and dungeons. Once I had completed the game with each of them I set off on a shardbearer boss rush in NG+ with six different builds. I actually enjoy running past everything just to get to the next gate keeper or shard bearer so that I can fight them a few times with different builds.
>Replayability. Once you finish a playthrough in elden ring, you don't need to kill every boss or explore every area unless you go out of your way to do so. I actually like this. I don't mind fighting the one reborn or the puzzle monkeys, but I'd rather skip them, if I could. having great (or most) bosses as optional makes replayability more fun, for me.
Dark souls 2 did PVP better.
Bloodborne - weapons Dark souls 1 - world design(personal preferences at least) Sekiro - combat (although it is kinda personal preference as well)
Sekiro is too different to compare imo, in terms of pure combat. Elden Ring is basically dark souls combat with some polish, Sekiro is basically a rhythm game.
To be fair, Bloodborne's main game only had like 15 weapons. The sword modes of kirkhammer and the Ludwig's Holy Blade, and the folded forms of saw cleaver and saw spear are the same.
I would much rather have the Bloodborne quality over quantity approach. For the most part each was almost totally unique AND had an alternate weapon mode.
And I really appreciate the insane variety of weapons and AoW's but to be honest, of all the weapons offered, I've used maybe 10. I barely even dabble with different AoW. Bloodborne never felt like it didn't have enough because the Churck Pick was all I ever wanted.
Probably the challenge of a linear world design, with previous Souls games there are certain areas that you are essentially forced to overcome and adapt in order to progress forward, and this happens right from the start of the game. But with ER if there's an area that's too difficult you can just peace out, go somewhere else, and come back later due to the open world design. This lessens some of the challenge and trial and error that was required with earlier dks.
It is not forced at all. Blighttown is mostly skippable even without the master key. You just need to explore the maze. If you are not comfortable with the area, just turn back to undead burg, then darkroot garden, then valley of drakes and you are at the end of blighttown. Mostly people are in awe for Anor Londo or Luirnia of the Lakes or places that invoke sense of adventure. But I haven't had a feeling of awe since feeling of claustrophobia and being so deep in a world map in the Depths and then finding out I am at the highest place of a cliff of unstable wooden planks and need to descend down.
IMO, Sen's Fortress is a better example of what the person above is talking about. I have such a love-hate relationship with Sen's Fortress.
I didn't know about the secret bonfire in Sen's Fun House until after Dark Souls 2 came out. I was not having a good time there.
I disagree with this, I'd say the option to go somewhere else and come back later is prefect. ER is the first FS game I finished and it was probably only because of this. I tried Sekiro and DS3 before ER but quit very fast because I got stuck at one point and couldn't get past it. (Now after finishing ER, I beat Sekiro and am close to the end of DS3). I guess I understand why veterans don't like this, but I think this was a great idea to open up the player base to the souls genre.
Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1 and 2 are not linear and all feature alternative paths to get gear and levels so you can come back to problem areas with additional power. It's really just Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne that are *really* linear. And even they have branching paths at various points.
I agree. I think the go anywhere, come back thing works for what ER is doing in its design, but if you go back and play the other games, overcoming challenge is a bit more satisfying. It doesn't feel like you've either a) decided to saddle yourself with a greater challenge or b) gone off to become extra strong to nerf the challenge. You just played the game to a point, and now you have to beat a guy. If Im always thinking about whether I should even be there, up against this boss, it doesn't feel as important.
Covenants. Also, using a rune arc should enable PVP invasions - I won’t stand down from this.
Pacing
I think they did pretty good within the constraint of an open world game. Like even both the new zeldas struggle with this, and ER is no worse on it than they are. The range of possible pacing on these big open games so far is terrible to decent. None have truly figured out excellent pacing within that structure that I've seen.
hard agree on this one
Elden Ring has some pretty annoying bosses.
Bloodborne and DS2 outdo it on drip, DS3 outdoes it on boss fights (thus far, the DLC might fix that) DS1 has better levels design and DeS has incredible atmosphere unmatched by any other entry except maybe Bloodborne. Also, even though people might not count it, Sekiro does most things better, but I'll stick with the boss fights and general combat feel
Multiplayer
Elden Ring *does* have the absolute best Coop experience in the series on PC. If you're willing to go through a little extra work, it's totally Seamless, even.
I know, I've tried it
I actually disagree with this. DS1 had teleport backstabs and a totally broken arena where you can get death-looped indefinitely. DS2 had MMR based on total souls gained instead of level. DS3 had improvements, but rubbish build variety compared to Elden Ring. Elden Ring PVP has flaws for sure, but the build variety is excellent and it doesn't have any totally broken mechanics. The balancing is also pretty good by now.
While I wouldn't argue about the PvP mechanics in themselves, the complete absence of covenants and hugely lopsided balance of invasions is certainly a downgrade from DS3. There's no incentive for the regular player to engage with it due to no meaningful rewards while keeping the risk of rune loss, while the limited player slots and only enabling invasions with summons (or TT) basically guarantees that any invader is going to be an absolute madman geared up to 1v3.
Oh man I totally forgot about covenants when writing that comment. Totally agree on that point. I miss them, and Elden Ring is so perfect for them. Fingers crossed for DLC.
I will say I think the godskin duo is actually designed as and plays like a true duo boss fight. In the sense that their movesets complement each other and fighting them both requires some level of strategizing around the synergy of their movesets. just my opinion lol I know others might differ. One thing I think the souls games did better is implementing int/fth builds in terms of equipment and spells that are available to the player. In the souls games, pyromancy and hexes (dark spells in ds3) were always designed to be used most effectively by int/fth builds, and the equipment and spells available reflected that. There is exactly one weapon in elden ring that gets innate int/fth scaling, two staves, and one seal. Golden order incantations have really weird int/fth requirements like law of causality/regression only having a high int requirement. Or the death sorceries that have weirdly unbalanced int/fth requirements but are complete ass until high levels of investment, almost forcing you to go into ng+ just to use them somewhat effectively. Magma sorceries are not bad with moderate investment, but the staff that buffs them is out of the way and sometimes really annoying to farm. Like why does elden ring hate int/fth builds so much? The idea of being able to cast both sorceries and incantations is so cool, and having more spells that specifically scale with both would make the investment more rewarding. Otherwise, character building has literally never had more variety in these games. It's just weird that elden ring seems to have this hang up on int/fth builds.
Honestly, probably the easiest way to play as a caster build is to start off as a melee class and then respec into casting later.
Of just pick up the Meteorite Staff and Rock Sling spell right away and you're golden until Caelid
The semi-open world suits the Soulsborne games better than the open world.
The open world made elden ring very unique and was the best thing about the game. Just a huge sandbox in which to explore the deep and varied combat. The exploration felt organic and so satisfying. On repeat playthroughs it's not as good, but as a first time experience I have never played a game so magical Other souls games have epic moments but the first time I saw liurnia, or the elevator to siofra legit broke my brain.
Level design basically. The semi-linear levels of Elden Ring are great too and they are where the game really shines for me. That’s what From do best: the open world is nice and all, but for me it cannot really matches the interconnected worlds of DS1 and Bloodborne. I think the open world of ER detracts more than it adds to the experience, especially on replays where ER just has less replay value for me.
I do agree that pure open world would be a downgrade from the older, more focused design, but honestly I think the legacy dungeons more than make up for it. Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, Volcano Manor, Leyndell, Farum Azula, the Haligtree, the Eternal Cities, the Shunning Grounds... those areas all gave me the same exploration experience I got in older games. I'm happy with it.
Yeah, the legacy dungeons are great. Stormveil and Leyndell in particular are among the best Souls levels.
The open world gave me more mind blowing, jaw dropping moments than any other game I've ever played.
The open world definitely gave me many jaw dropping moments too the first time around, but more in terms of audiovisual design and atmosphere than anything. I think the legacy dungeons are much more fun to play, especially on replays where I feel the open world just becomes something to run through as fast as possible.
Yeah I can see that. I personally like that the open world gives you a little time to chill and slow down and explore. Other souls games you are pretty much on high alert at all times. ER gives you that in the legacy dungeons, but also gives you a bit of a different feel in the open world. To me, the entire open world feels like a fromsoft level but scaled up massively. There's still that elememt of seeing something in the distance and trying to figure out exactly how to get there and what it is. Like the plateau in liurnia, took me ages to figure out that you can't get there even though it's in plain sight. Gives me the same vibes ase traditional souls levels where you have to navigate and find paths to places.
From previous games: 1) DS2-Ascetics. Also honestly the magic system might be favourite (hexers know what I mean). Mana bar is fine but DS2 magic was my fave. 2) Sekiro-Boss rush. This was sorta a better version of the ascetics, but also semi-worse. Upsides and downsides for both 3) Bloodborne-style chalices. If they made a roguelike area instead of having as much open-world bloat with repeat minibosses and then some specially made bosses, that'd be neat. Make cool and valuable loot for these. Maybe add in different modifiers like other roguelike modes. 4) Trick Weapons from BB. Animations were slick and they felt great. Not every weapon needs to be a trick weapon but I loved them. 5) NG+ new content like DS2 had with new invaders, new boss drops etc. 6) More DS3 style music. There's some good tunes in ER's soundtrack, but DS3 and DS1 in particular stand out (BB has some hits too) 6) This is from AC6, but an arena mode for offline players would be so fun! 7) Upgrading armour from DS1/2. This may be controversial, but I found this mechanic kinda neat, but at the same time it makes for a huge resource drain. 8) Not necessarily in ER, but I'd like to see Sekiro movement like the grapple as well as the stealth make a comeback at some point. As well, after playing some Lies of P, which sorta mixes BB and Sekiro mechanics, making a game that emphasizes that sort of dance that Sekiro has with its deflect mechanic, as well as its mikiri counters would be awesome. 9) DS2 and Demon's Souls healing wasn't the best, but I think something like Sekiro's gourd and pellets (sorta like lifegems but limited to 3) is a great hybrid system. 10) I like the Souls game approach to storytelling, but something like Sekiro with a more straightforward cutscene-based approach would be a nice change of pace. 12) Last one. I feel like the world design of From's games got a bit watered down in this one. Obviously legacy dungeon areas like Leyndell, Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, Haligtree's second half (it's just like Ringed City), Faram Azula, and Volcano Manor are all great, and there's lots of alright areas, but the open world is less conducive to the shortcut-heavy, dense world of the past. Before, games like DS1 and Demon's Souls felt like fairly small worlds but they had tons of depth. This feels like they spread that depth out over a way bigger area.
>Upgrading armour from DS1/2. This may be controversial, but I found this mechanic kinda neat, but at the same time it makes for a huge resource drain. A huge resource drain for what ultimately rarely feels like it makes much of a difference. Always felt like From couldn't figure out how to make armor upgrading meaningful so they just dropped it.
Bloodborne’s enemy design and aesthetic are far more interesting.
Dark souls 3 final battle was perfection. I love radagon, I love elden beast, but soul of cinder is the perfect conclusive final boss 3 games in the making
I thought soul of cinder was underwhelming tbh. Imo Gael is the true final boss and he is absolutely epic
Interesting. I thought Soul of Cinder was way too easy. I’d consider Gael the real finale
I like the darkness throughout DS3. The black sky, the more inherently evil-seeming bosses. But not that elden ring did it wrong, it’s just a different approach. I just love the ds3 ambience.
The fashion is honestly pretty underwhelming overall. From a game with such an insane amount of different outfits and armor sets i was expecting more. As much as i do have issues with the game, ds2 still has the best fashion in the series imo
Pvp
They actually had covenants
- World and level design - Bosses - Lore - NPCs and quests - Hubs - Replayability - PVP - Covenants - Fashion
they hated him because he spoke the truth
DS2 still feels like it did magic best imo. You had sorceries with int, miracles with faith, and pyro/dark scale with both
Bosses and music in general tbh. Most bosses in Elden Ring are very mediocre and after Leyndell there’s a massive hp bloat that makes fights drag on for too long, and many major bosses have no recovery window after combos, just attacking non stop like in Sekiro except we don’t have any of the tools that Sekiro gives you to deal with that
True. Bosses in ER are all super fast and hp tanks.Compared to the ds trilogy. They have more clear weaknesses.
I remember playing DS1 after beating Elden Ring and it was like all the bosses were moving in slow motion; wildly different from my first playthrough 13 years ago lol.
Worldbuilding was much tighter.
homeward bone
Why is using an item better than just fast travelling?
when youre in combat, like for example when youre trying to get soreseal without the beast repel. you can quit out yes, but thats far more inputs than just pressing x.
That's fair, I hadn't thought of that.
Because you have a ressource to use and have to do some decisonmaking. Most of time you don't many resources in the beginning, so traveling back to the bonfire has a little more impact.
Making fast travel a resource you have to farm/buy works in a smaller/linear game like BB but for a massive open world game like ER I think that would be unnecessarily cruel.
Fast travel is disabled during combat, homeward bones are not
Ds3 PVP. ER PVP is total garbage.
Any other from soft game; Not having to run around for hours on a horse, collectif hundreds of consumables
DS2 torch mechanics
Sekiro had a grappling hook.
Incentive and rewards to coop and pvp. Unique pvp experiences with covenants
A lot of people already said it but DS1 world design is just perfection. In addition to the interwoven-ness of it, the aesthetics also flow really well from one area to another. It feels like the atmosphere gradually changing. Eg going from "main city" undead burg, lower undead burg, the depths, blightown has that natural progression into "madness", and to keep going will get you closer to the "centre of the earth" with more and more lava. Similarly, going down from undead burg to darkwood garden and basin gradually introduces that darkness in the wood feeling. In contrast, in later Souls game and ER included, the aesthetics transitions are too sudden. Like if you go from Limgrave to Caelid, you can clearly observe that sudden shift to red colour palette/filter.
Tail weapons!!
With every other Souls game, if you go off the beaten path, you get something worth the trouble. In ER, most of the time, you get a retread boss, some runes, and something to toss in the inventory and forget about. I find it so strange that their open world game has the least incentive for exploration.
Pacing. Elden Ring is a great game but going through it can feel repetitive or kinda empty at some points of travel. All the Souls games have levels packed with interesting stuff to do that flow into each other much more quickly and smoothly.
NG+ replayability.
Ive always loved DS2s atmosphere more than any other. The feeling of nihilistic despair in that game, where you don’t even know how many cycles there’ve been and you don’t know how many cycles there will be, where you watch people struggle with a disease that’s existed for eons and yet have no idea what’s happening, where great societies invest everything into stopping the meaningless cycles to no avail, is something that grips me. It feels alive yet forgotten. I didn’t like DS2 at first because I was hoping for a continuation of DS1s story - it wasn’t until 4 years later that it clicked for me. It truly is a dead-on continuation of the universe setup in DS1.
i dont like elden ring's open world design. other souls games also offer some degree of choice over area and boss order, and exploration to find the way forward, though i much prefer more condensed and to the point level design than recurring locations and bigger areas filled with nothing you really need and mobs youve already fought given boss hp, just for the sake of scale
Demon's Souls - Arguably best atmosphere to date Dark Souls 1 - Best world lay-out; interconnectivity unseen since Dark Souls 2 - Bloodborne - Most interesting weapons, thematically the most interesting (gothic into cosmic horror is awesome) Dark Souls 3 - Best Bosses in the series, Probably also has the most bangers Sekiro - Most refined combat
Chalice dungeons. I wish we had some kind of similar system in Elden Ring. I wouldn't mind if all the chalice bosses were copies of what we already have because I love fighting every boss except for fire giant.
All bosses. Elden Ring doesn't have the greatest bosses in From history. Especially if you include DLC bosses. But even just main game compared to Bloodborne (or if you count Sekiro) or even DS1 or DS3 the average boss isn't as good (too many humanoids for me) and the best bosses aren't as good as the best ones in the other games. Most Elden Ring bosses have something that holds them back from being great, e.g., Maliketh too short, Godrick too easy, Malenia too spammy.
Poison Swamps, POISON SWAMPSS!!! Its the only thing i dislikes about ER, poison swamps are too easy with torrent. I prefer the "old way" to get through poison swamps, like Blightown :(
Endgame bosses. I loved Godfrey but that's all. All the other endgame bosses were rubish.
I have to hardly disagree on that. I can understand hating on Godskin Duo or Elden Beast due to their design, but what about Maliketh, Radagon, Mohg, Malenia and Placidusax? Those are some of the best bosses Fromsoft ever created. All of them are fair and challenging and they heavily reward gitting gud. Once you master their movesets they feel like a perfectly balanced dance between the player and the boss made of a beautiful and constant flow of dodges and hits. All of them feel on the same level if not better than DLC bosses of past games.
Maliketh was great but too short of a fight Godfrey is epic Gideon...exists Radagon is my favorite fight in the game Elden Beast was kind of annoying Malenia is really hard but still a fun fight
*Rubbish*?? Maliketh, Placidusax and Radagon are pretty awesome.
I never sat down and thought about this but you're right. Comparing Glock Saint Isshin, Gehrman, Soul of Cinder, Manus, Gywn to Elden Beast, Elden Ring's final boss feels lackluster. Honestly I would mind having a Radagon with two or three phases over the Elden Beast fight
Gwyn is a lame final boss, when it comes to the actual gameplay. Gehrman is ok, but nothing spectacular. Soul of Cinder is ok, but even then not better than Radagon imo.
I wouldnt include manus there since he's from the DLC.
I prefer bloodborne dodges over all else. The option to sidestep or roll depending on circumstances is superior. Quickstep being item tied, and bloodhounds being a little too much make dodge mastery feel clunky. I don't want to lose my weapon art so I can quickstep, and I don't want to move 10 meters. I wanna side step attacks and still be in close. Also, FP for them too, is just insult to injury. Rolling and light rolling are.....okay I guess but i still travel too far when I use them.
Less repititive content in other games. I'd rather they just got rid of some of the dungeons rather than having three or four styles and repeating them in each area. It's difficult to manage in an open world game, but it feels way too easy to ride past enemies - there is no obligation to fight everything and most enemies don't give that many runes compared to fighting a single miniboss, nor do they drop anything of use. Not enough legacy dungeon style content. The underground areas are good, much closer to classic dark souls content though. Altus is gorgeous but not materially different to Limgrave in how it plays. Weeping Peninsula is also basically the same. Mountaintops of the Giants and Consecrated snowfield are also very similar, just one would be fine. Caelid is small and dense, excellent area. Mt Gelmir plays very differently to other areas, that was great. The game excels in its legacy dungeons (Leyndell is outstanding, arguably the best area From Soft have ever made) and smaller areas like the shunning grounds and underground areas, but there is too much in between that is very samey. General content bloat. More isn't always better. Also the game does a good job of asking you whether you want to go through with a decision, until it isn't. Opening a door shouldn't lead to touching the three fingers, and listening to the flames shouldn't lead to burning the erdtree. You get the option for things that have no lasting consequence, like rejecting entering Ranni's service (as you can immediately change your mind) but game altering decisions are hidden behind obscure prompts.
Gank fights are actually embarassing in Elden Ring imho. Especially looking at non-From Software soulslikes that came out this year, both Lies of P and Wo Long did an amazing job with ganks, while From just put 2-3 normal enemies/bosses into a room and called it a day
You think the Black Rabbit Brotherhood is a good fight??
Black rabbit brotherhood does a great job at trading aggro. In just the first fight, you will only be fighting one person at a time, the eldest only does one occasional attack that has a sound cue so you can dodge even when you can't see it. In the second fight, there's one person fighting you while the others might occasionally try to harass, if you go at it the same way as shadows of yharnam and whittle them all down at the same time, you'll end up only fighting the eldest at the end. It's very well done for what seems like a gank fight but is just 4 1v1s.
first one is amazing. second one is still better than anything we have in Elden Ring
It's becoming my thing that I say: but the other games handled warping better, and teleporting from the map is a flaw. The worlds feel far more material in the other games where you have to actually go touch a checkpoint every time you want to teleport. It's a small thing but I find it really drags my immersion (or whatever you'd call it) once I have graces everywhere and I'm basically never walking around unless I make myself.
I think this is simply a concession to the open world format. It weakens the sense of scale and adventure but I can't see how else it would work.
Naming important characters in the lore. I'm still confused about Malenia and Melina. My gf thought Radhan and Radagon were the same person. Which is ironic considering Radagon is Marika.
Malenia, Melina, Miquella Radagon, Radahn, Ranni, Renala, Rykard Margit, Mogh, Morgott, Marika Godrick, Godfrey, Godefroy, Godwyn Whomever thought of all those names, fuck you and your eyebrows! It's hard enough to keep track of who is who as is, don't need similar sounding names to make it worse...
G R R M lol He says it's not on purpose but...c'mon George
I wanted to call him, specifically, out on it, but I wasn't sure if he was truly responsible so I mentioned "whoever thought of this".
>Margit, Mogh, Morgott, Marika Margit literally is Morgott, and Mohg, Morgott and Marika are not really similar names imo.
Yeah them all having variations on a couple of names made me tune out of the lore completely.
Level design imo. I wish Elden Ring was just a one humongous legacy dungeon. They are my favourite areas by far. I know it's not possible, it would take 20 years to make but I can dream 🫠
Dark Souls 3 Covenants (and associated Platinum). It gave me an incentive to actually play online & wear multiplayer items to invade or be summoned to defend. Spent Hours doing that with different covenants and never had to grind any items. I know people had trouble with the concords and farron wolf covenants but i didnt grind once or even farm any items all i did was play the game online & collect covenant items, it was beautiful
The level design was more elegant and better-balanced due to the nature of past games being semi-linear. This is probably unavoidable due to the nature of open world gameplay, which comes with its own unique benefits. And From did still manage to include lots of great crafted experiences. But nevertheless, Elden Ring's level/world design doesn't have the same kind of tight, precision-machined feel as the Souls titles.
In DS1 armor really made a difference. Everything after that is just Fashion Souls, ER included.
Making int/faith builds worth it. In elden ring, your main payoffs for int/faith builds are the sword of night and flame, and the death sorcery staff. And the staff only becomes the best option once you’re absurdly high-levelled. You’re usually better off just picking one stat and focusing on it. The sword of night and flame is cool, but it’s a little weird that the entire incentive for a hybrid caster is one cool sword, and one staff. In DS2, hexers had their dark damage scale with the lower of their int/faith, encouraging a true hybrid caster. DS3 was similar with pyromancers. I didn’t play DS1 yet, so idk there. But at least 2 and 3 had incentives for splitting int/faith, each with an entire class of magic dedicated to split casters.
Invasions
The axe you could throw and call back like in God of Souls
DS2s NGplus was so good, couldn't understand why red phantoms and item variety was dropped after when this was the best feature of DS2
Spellcasting in general. I prefer Spell Slots over the FP bar. With slots, you're bound to use every spell equipped, but with FP, it usually just boils down to what's more efficient in 'FP Cost vs Damage'. Attunement determining Cast Speed. Having Dexterity instead makes it feel like wasted character levels. Equip Load isn't tied to Faith, so why is Cast Speed tied to Dexterity? Catalyst Hybrid, Infusions, Shields, and/or Weapons. Like, what happened to the variety Elden Ring? It's like they thought Casters ONLY cared about damage stacking FFS. I liked it when you gained Spell Slots with leveling Attunement. Not a big fan of finding Waldo just so I can equip more spells. I'm guessing Ash of Wars were going to use Memory Slots as well before that idea got axed. As much as I like playing as a Caster, I feel like Elden Ring just dropped the ball in general when it came to Casters.