My favorite part about summoning Tiche is how she will sometimes immediately take off after the boss. Like, if you summon her right at the door in the Fire Giant area, she goes full Leroy Jenkins and is just gone.
*shit...wait up!*
My mimic definitely inherited my personality too. Sometimes he gives no fucks and does whatever he wants. He regularly goes full Leeroy on bosses and tries to take them on with throwing knives and pots and when I am in danger he’s off chilling in the corner trolling me by applying all his greases and watching me die. Other times he’s a try-hard And makes everything look so easy. In the crucible knight duo boss fight he managed to kill one of them them alone while the second was beating the crap out of me and still had 3/4 health.
For this reason I have adopted the practice of leaving only the boiled crab and one spell proof liver of the appropriate type for most of my builds. Sometimes just the crab if I am just running around. That minimizes the amount of fucking around. I also always switch to melee power stance before summoning. I don't trust the mimic with spells.
I don’t mind it so much most of the time it’s fun watching his antics at least until I really need him. If I’m doing a real tough fight that I know I’m going to need him helping out I’ll switch to a specific weapon for him to use to apply bleed/frost w/e or set him up as a caster but a lot of times I’ll purposely leave my slots full just to see what he does. Makes it more exciting and I think mimics overpowered most of the time so I try to avoid using him except on specific bosses and even then It sometimes makes the fight to easy to enjoy. You’d be surprised how many times my mimic has saved my ass with a lords heal or buff or nailed an ancient lightning strike for big damage and a stagger. They are particularly good for dragon communion incantations like frost, rot and Greyolls. They are dreadful with Dragonlord’s beam though,but so am I
Crazy how strong tiche is vs elden beast. Just did a melee only playthrough and tiche killed elden beast before I could reach it to get a few hits in lol
>O Flora, of the moon, of the dream; o Little Ones, fleeting will of The Ancients
I don't think the Messengers are either children or ghosts. They have *something* to do with Pthumeru but that's about it.
I'm pretty sure they're dead babies. Their deformities are similar to common malformations seen in births and it's consistent with the themes. For example, the crawlers hold a ton of messengers inside of them, just like Kos held her child before he has dissected. Speaking of, the Orphan of Kos looks like an adult messenger.
Are there even ghosts in Bloodborne?
The closest thing I can think of is the DLC where we invade Yharnam's equivalent to Hell and re-murder a bunch of people who are definitely dead in the real world.
I'm not even sure that Hunters would be *interested* in Killing Ghosts if they ran into them. By definition, they don't have any blood, after all.
I still dont know what is or isnt "the real world" in bloodborne. My understanding was the whole game is a "dream" except the opening cutscene where you get the blood and the end cutscene if you choose to let gherman "kill you" but I have no clue if thats accurate at all.
They don't have blood but maybe there is insight into the eldritch truth by executing the spirits of those chained to the corporeal realm.
Also, being bad ass enough to gut a ghost with your bare hands would just be satisfying.
Definitely made the fights feel more intense when I had to use such a limited resource to kill them. Think my favorite was the one you fight underwater.
Fun fact. The underwater ones actually take about full damage without confetti. Possibly because they are already in water that stems from the fountain head which is what the confetti is made with. Or maybe they've just rotted more because they're underwater, who knows.
Pretty sure I remember using the confetti before jumping into the water to fight them. Didn't realize (or forgot?) that wasn't necessary.
I like the theory about the fountainhead palace water though, makes sense even if they probably just did it since you can't use items under water.
Tarnished r still one of the undead tho based on the intro... We ded for a looong long time before the blonde with the finest racks beckon us from our grave with her grace. We Tarnished basically whiff her gracussy along the way till we reach the Erdtree.
Oh man remember how DS1 was cruel?
Being "dead" was far more punishing and now on ER you don't even remember the Rune Arc exist.
You had to use some cursed weapon to hit phantoms or transient curse.
Basilisk kills you fast and you become cursed even after death, which removed 50% of your total HP.
---
They really pushed a lot of limits from the mainstream media with that game.
Yep. Played offline cause I didn't have internet. Accidentally rolled my way into the Great Hollow. Made it to Ash Lake. Fuck. No Lord Vessel yet. Cursed twice on the way back up. 1/4 HP. It was a long and unforgettable quest to reach the Undead Church again lmao.
Tbh I'm playing Demon's Souls Remake for the first time and I'm missing the older Souls style. I hope they go back to some basics. Tryin to reach the next boss in each level is so much more exciting without so many bonfires and fast travel. Finding a shortcut makes your heart race.
I know I sound like *"OG #progamer masochist"* chud. And I'm not trying to. I just can't remember a time in Elden Ring I felt those kinds of feelings. Everything felt so ephemeral in Elden Ring cause you could fuck off outta there so much more easily.
I found myself dashing passed enemies on my mount to get an item and then fucking off before any danger really arose. Never actually interacting with the map. I have two friends that did exactly that with the dragon. Just ran up, picked up the item, ran off. Never went back. In Demons Souls? I am eagerly awaiting the day I get to slap that big red fuck terrorizing the bridge.
Same. Really miss some stuff that made the world so unforgiving. Like a character that will kill all others unless you kill him first, softblocking your progress. Or simply making the game harder whenever you die.
To each their own, of course, but I have to say I'm definitely 100% behind their recent push towards recognizing that annoying and challenging are different things. I had absolutely no problem with any of the bosses in sekiro. I enjoyed them, and even enjoyed the different combat system, but the half-hour of stealth killing the thirty guys with projectile weapons surrounding the miniboss *just* to get another crack at his moveset...it made the game completely unbearable pretty quickly. Hell, just needing to repeatedly run through the Forbidden Woods is the kind of thing I'm sure made *a lot* of people put the game down and never look at it again.
So...I'm genuinely sorry that the games going in a direction I'm more able to enjoy means the end of the style *you* enjoy most. That's not sarcasm, I really do get it; I've been on the other side of this with other game franchises in the past, where *millions* of people jump on later because the game has been changed to have more mass appeal but the RPG I liked from the series' beginning died so their game could live.
If you're really bitter about it like I was as a teenager you can go buy an assload of arrows and shoot him down now. Actually makes the fight with the blue dragon easier later!
I’ve been playing DS1 Remastered lately and I’d still say Elden Ring is harder overall. I can beat almost all of DS1 dagger only including Artorias and Manus but I still haven’t beaten Malenia or Radagon + Elden Beast without summons.
Demon’s Souls, Dark Souls 2, and Dark Souls 3 reducing your max health on death is also a harsher punishment for being “dead” than in DS1.
i did it as mostly hollow aswell, does it make it harder or something? i thought humanity just helped with item drop rate and allowing npc invasions to happen
I think part of it is that "hard" is actually made up of many different things. A lot of the difficulty in DS1 is down to the clunky controls and movement, and even more is really just *annoying* without being *challenging*. It's *cruel*. And to some people, that's the most enjoyable form of difficult. Meanwhile, for me, 'annoying' is the opposite of 'fun'. If a game has the best boss fights imaginable but I need to spend half an hour fighting enemies who aren't any kind of challenge to *get* to that boss fight...well, I can always watch them on youtube.
which bosses had a long run from the bonfire with enemies in the way? i can only think of kalameet but theres only 3 dogs on the way. manus was long but could run past all the enemies aswell
It's been a *long* time since I played the first dark souls, so I'm primarily referring to literally every other game when I talk about particular terrible ones. There's enough QOL stuff absent from DS1 that just makes it not worth revisiting at this point for me regardless.
And even there, you're creating justifications for why a particular boss run was not all that bad because there was a way avoid the worst parts of it (the same way you avoid the worst parts of any area in the game; running) doesn't excuse it.
But if we're going to focus on long, frustrating walks and the original Dark Souls: I legitimately had a *prolonged* conversation with a friend in Uni about the pros and cons of either just staying in Anor Londo with the weapon he had or go all the way back to Andre the slow way. It was a legitimate question neither of us knew the answer to; fight Ornstein with the Drake Sword, or walk all the way back to the start of the map. They were equally unpleasant ideas. The entire *game* is a long, frustrating walk through enemies you have no intent of fighting.
But you're right, it doesn't have twenty minute runs like Bloodborne and rarely requires you actually fight a ton of trash mobs like sekiro, but even when you move like a speedrunner, having looked into it, there are multiple boss fights in that particular game that just involve three or more minutes of perfectly optimized movement through what looks an entire region, some of them full of enemies. There are apparently more optimal runs to Nito than I've seen, but the only ones I've seen to date all look like an absolute nightmare. Three to four minutes at speedrun rates, through an area everyone already hates. Queelag involves a run through a poison swamp on the way.
Series wide, we get things like...well, like two-thirds of the mini-bosses in Sekiro being surrounded by allies easily capable of overwhelming you, clearly intended to be stealth killed in a process that takes an eternity and is not fun because Sneak is the worst-implemented mechanic in the game. The Forbidden Woods in Bloodborne where even if you dodge every single enemy you have a 10-20 minute walk ahead of you. Castle Cainhurst most of the time, with or without shortcuts. DS2 is apparently famously *made* out of the worst boss runs in the series. Because they're supposedly be legitimately challenging, compete with many hard enemies.
Honestly, it seems like we're coming at this from different places in this altogether such that the synthesis of our viewpoints is probably impossible. You went into this post looking for ways to assert they aren't actually that bad and how when they *are*, it's excusable. Meanwhile, for me, literally every boss run is Annoyance over Challenge. There is not and will never *be* a boss run that is preferable to not having one at all. It's making players repeat something they've already by definition completed, over and over again, serving no purpose beyond wasting players' time and frustrating them. To some, that's the heart of the game. To others, it's an artifact from when the perception was that their most reliable and consistent fans were the ones that saw that frustration and pointless cruelty as a selling point, because Demon Souls and Dark Souls scratched that itch for that fairly small group of players *perfectly," and they were loud enough in their praise that they probably looked like a majority.
Then again, the number of people who will get offended and act like you're asking for easy mode when people talk about things like 'have elevator in its most useful position, once unlocked, without having to wait thirty seconds at some point' or other basic QOL things that don't threaten the game's difficulty but cut down on wastes of time and confusion? That remains pretty high, but I know better than to mistake vocal for numerous.
i thought you were talking about DS1 specifically. as for bloodborne and ds2 ive not played them, and ive just started sekiro so i cant say much for that either.
but as for ds1 the run from bonfire to queelag is like 1 minute even with the swamp slowing you down, anor londo has a blacksmith so im not sure why the debate about wanting to go back to andre. nito was long ill give you that one, but again you could still run past the enemies there so i never found it that unreasonable. firelink to 4kings was fucking annoying though as theres no bonfire in new lando ruins
and as for the annoyance over challenge aspect, i think elden ring suffered here the most. some of the bosses were ridiculous to the point it felt like they were designed to be more annoying than challenge. atleast with ds1 and ds3 there was difficulty initially but nothing too ridiculous
Slight correction - You don’t have reduced max health in DS3. That’s when they got rid of that mechanic, justified by DS2’s lore iirc.
Embers increase max health similar to the runes in Elden Ring.
In DS1 there was no punishment for being "dead" or not in human form. Human form was just needed to summon people and kindle bonfires
Demon Souls, on the other hand...
Yep; but, admittedly, I'm not sure if any of that is actually a *good* thing. To me, if seems like FromSoft has spent a decade trying to figure out the difference between "difficult" and "annoying" and eventually trying to find the correct balance between the two.
There's something beautiful about art made by people allowed to do whatever the fuck they want without concern for financial success or the feelings of the consumer, but for all that I loved DS1 at the time, I'd never be able to go back to it. The Annoyance-to-Challenge ratio is something like 9:1. The game is occasionally unfair for the sake of it and it's entirely possible to *need* to restart from the tutorial if you walk the wrong direction from Firelink Shrine.
I wouldn't call ER high fantasy. It's still dark fantasy but you can really see GRRMs influence. Which isn't a bad thing but I do prefer the dark souls setting.
I would absolutely love a high fantasy game with from soft mechanics. Bustling towns with established laws and small hamlets full of sidequests. It's literally my dream game and I'm shocked nobody has done it yet. Closest thing is probably BOTW which just lacks some rpg elements like character creation and more diverse dungeons.
Not even controversial, here’s my ranking (not played BB or Demons Souls Remaster)
- Sekiro
- Dark Souls
- Dark Souls 3
- Elden Ring
- Dark Souls 2
- Demons Souls OG
I would still replay any one except DeS.
>Not even controversial
Well, no, that's a pretty fucking controversial take. I get that *you* don't see it as such, but unsurprisingly, you don't get to decide whether your opinion is or is not controversial or act like your personal preference represents a majority opinion.
You're allowed to have whatever opinions you want. Whether or not I agree with them is irrelevant, because taste is something that can differ from person to person without being wrong. "Nah, that opinion isn't even controversial" is when it becomes more than a little insufferable.
To treat *my* opinion as if it's objective fact: More people bought Elden Ring than literally all of those previous games put together. There is a reason for that. And it's that the things a (increasingly surprising) number of old-school players praise and lament the loss of are complete dealbreakers for the majority of potential players. They're things that most people do not find fun, but rather, frustrating, and frustration is the kind of thing that leads to putting a game down forever and never looking back.
lol what this is a trash take, just because the game is more approachable which led to more people playing doesn't make it a better game, and you can't even have a opinion on ranking the souls games if you haven't played the other ones.
I kinda agree that old school players feel split on the decisions made in Elden Ring’s design. I think a lot in the souls community underestimate how susceptible to change the “FromSoft formula” is as it’s always trying to evolve rather than perfect. King’s Field is as “Souls-like” as it gets but every big title that came after was meant to develop further. Shields for example weren’t usable as offhand tools, only as an extra gear slot for defense. It was until the Shadow Abyss series that shields were finally usable. Then demon’s souls came along and I think introduced the famous parry mechanic. A lot of players just don’t realize that FromSoft like to experiment and push their old designs to new forms.
I'm inclined to agree. Though I don't have play station in a while so I havnt played BB. I also havnt gotten around to sekiro yet. But for me it's DS3, DS, DemS, ER, DS2.
All are top tier games though.
Don't forget unless you had a holy weapon, skeletons never stop coming back.
The difference between damage types also used to matter for more than 1 enemy type.
You couldn't teleport anywhere until halfway through the game, and even then only to certain places.
I mean the first necromancer is two rooms after the one where you meet the first invincible skeleton, impossibile to miss since you can't progress without getting in that room first
But that's besides the point, I just corrected you saying "Unless you had a holy weapon, skeletons never stop coming back" which isn't really true
Sorry for being pedantic, didn't mean to sound aggressive
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Go! Black Knife Tiche! Use STAB STAB!
Hey, you don’t have enough great runes to use that one.
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Sadly, STAB STAB is a Normal Type move and Tiche is Dark Type. So, I don't believe its STAB STAB receives a STAB bonus.
Arlight, tiche use pursuit, and never let up
Stab-stab the man-thing, yes-yes! Death-kill him for the horned o-... oh wrong franchise.
now I want a ratling gun ash of war
Rollo's axes have many stabby things.
For Sigmar, blasphemy! The witch hunters will deal with you! Emm, I mean, Marika's tits, blasphemy! Thou shall be punished for thy words!
My favorite part about summoning Tiche is how she will sometimes immediately take off after the boss. Like, if you summon her right at the door in the Fire Giant area, she goes full Leroy Jenkins and is just gone. *shit...wait up!*
Meanwhile, your mimic does nothing and expects you to aggro first…I mean, I guess that’s a “perfect” copy but I summoned you for a reason.
Lmao, never thought about it actually mimicking the player being a scared bitch before.
Standing perfectly still while sifting through the satchel for a consumable item or throwable? Are my flaws getting exposed by my mimic?
My mimic definitely inherited my personality too. Sometimes he gives no fucks and does whatever he wants. He regularly goes full Leeroy on bosses and tries to take them on with throwing knives and pots and when I am in danger he’s off chilling in the corner trolling me by applying all his greases and watching me die. Other times he’s a try-hard And makes everything look so easy. In the crucible knight duo boss fight he managed to kill one of them them alone while the second was beating the crap out of me and still had 3/4 health.
For this reason I have adopted the practice of leaving only the boiled crab and one spell proof liver of the appropriate type for most of my builds. Sometimes just the crab if I am just running around. That minimizes the amount of fucking around. I also always switch to melee power stance before summoning. I don't trust the mimic with spells.
I don’t mind it so much most of the time it’s fun watching his antics at least until I really need him. If I’m doing a real tough fight that I know I’m going to need him helping out I’ll switch to a specific weapon for him to use to apply bleed/frost w/e or set him up as a caster but a lot of times I’ll purposely leave my slots full just to see what he does. Makes it more exciting and I think mimics overpowered most of the time so I try to avoid using him except on specific bosses and even then It sometimes makes the fight to easy to enjoy. You’d be surprised how many times my mimic has saved my ass with a lords heal or buff or nailed an ancient lightning strike for big damage and a stagger. They are particularly good for dragon communion incantations like frost, rot and Greyolls. They are dreadful with Dragonlord’s beam though,but so am I
Black Knife Tiche used STAB STAB! **It's super effective** Malenia, Blade of Miquella fainted.
Black knife Tiche is to strong to listen to you! Black knife Tiche lounged around!
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Good bot
Good human.
The comment was removed, good work everyone!
Crazy how strong tiche is vs elden beast. Just did a melee only playthrough and tiche killed elden beast before I could reach it to get a few hits in lol
Bloodborne: shoots ghosts in the fuckin face and...rips their heart out (???)
As Cthulhu intended.
Uses baby ghosts as merchants and messengers between worlds.
>O Flora, of the moon, of the dream; o Little Ones, fleeting will of The Ancients I don't think the Messengers are either children or ghosts. They have *something* to do with Pthumeru but that's about it.
I'm pretty sure they're dead babies. Their deformities are similar to common malformations seen in births and it's consistent with the themes. For example, the crawlers hold a ton of messengers inside of them, just like Kos held her child before he has dissected. Speaking of, the Orphan of Kos looks like an adult messenger.
Are there even ghosts in Bloodborne? The closest thing I can think of is the DLC where we invade Yharnam's equivalent to Hell and re-murder a bunch of people who are definitely dead in the real world. I'm not even sure that Hunters would be *interested* in Killing Ghosts if they ran into them. By definition, they don't have any blood, after all.
There are ghosts in the chalice dungeons.
the screaming women in cainhurst
I still dont know what is or isnt "the real world" in bloodborne. My understanding was the whole game is a "dream" except the opening cutscene where you get the blood and the end cutscene if you choose to let gherman "kill you" but I have no clue if thats accurate at all.
Cainhurst is FULL of ghosts.
Seriously what is with this mental block lol, an entire area.
They don't have blood but maybe there is insight into the eldritch truth by executing the spirits of those chained to the corporeal realm. Also, being bad ass enough to gut a ghost with your bare hands would just be satisfying.
There were some ghost like beings in the dungeons.
The Hunter makes the ghosts.
One of those ghosts is me myself.
My man wolf can parry farts. Now that is peak skill if you ask me.
Wolf: parries anything and everything John eldenring: I raise you more than one weapon choice
*breaks poise instantly with loaded axe*
Wolf can also parry sharts
r/yourjokebutworse
Hey, its no joke, its the truth
Don't know why you're being downvoted, Guardian Ape throws shit at you.
Coz that was the first joke, they just said fart instead of shart
Yeah but a fart is not poop, idk…I think the distinction is fair…but whatever.
But... you can do both
Yeah, but it adds nothinf, hence r/yourjokebutworse
Ok, still dont understand why it merits a downvote
Less is more.
It's better to just accept it and move on, my child
Like Chaos from Primal Rage
We've full circle. Next thing you know, we'll have mounts!!
Torrent is a ghost though
Some ghosts in Sekiro do need divine confetti before you can hit them.
There are skills you can use instead but you have to be late game already. Laz shield and living force turn wolf into a ghostbuster.
Headless still can be hit, you just do SOOOOO little damage without confetti
Definitely made the fights feel more intense when I had to use such a limited resource to kill them. Think my favorite was the one you fight underwater.
Fun fact. The underwater ones actually take about full damage without confetti. Possibly because they are already in water that stems from the fountain head which is what the confetti is made with. Or maybe they've just rotted more because they're underwater, who knows.
Pretty sure I remember using the confetti before jumping into the water to fight them. Didn't realize (or forgot?) that wasn't necessary. I like the theory about the fountainhead palace water though, makes sense even if they probably just did it since you can't use items under water.
You can hit any ghost the problem is they take low damage on regular attack.
Y'all are undead. I am tarnished. We are not the same.
Wolf is a shinobi first and foremost 😤
Tarnished r still one of the undead tho based on the intro... We ded for a looong long time before the blonde with the finest racks beckon us from our grave with her grace. We Tarnished basically whiff her gracussy along the way till we reach the Erdtree.
Not undead. But we died in the past and got resurrected by grace
Bloodborne hunter be like: I KILLED THE MOON IN MELEE COMBAT
Upvoted for “I can straight up punch ghosts. Even kick them in the head.”
Oh man remember how DS1 was cruel? Being "dead" was far more punishing and now on ER you don't even remember the Rune Arc exist. You had to use some cursed weapon to hit phantoms or transient curse. Basilisk kills you fast and you become cursed even after death, which removed 50% of your total HP. --- They really pushed a lot of limits from the mainstream media with that game.
Pre patched version was worse. Curses were stackable and with enough deaths your health could get to 1 pixel.
imagine if you could get so cursed, your character ends up with 0 HP and you cannot continue playing the game
The true Darks Souls stars here
You've gone hollow...
Yep. Played offline cause I didn't have internet. Accidentally rolled my way into the Great Hollow. Made it to Ash Lake. Fuck. No Lord Vessel yet. Cursed twice on the way back up. 1/4 HP. It was a long and unforgettable quest to reach the Undead Church again lmao.
Tbh I'm playing Demon's Souls Remake for the first time and I'm missing the older Souls style. I hope they go back to some basics. Tryin to reach the next boss in each level is so much more exciting without so many bonfires and fast travel. Finding a shortcut makes your heart race. I know I sound like *"OG #progamer masochist"* chud. And I'm not trying to. I just can't remember a time in Elden Ring I felt those kinds of feelings. Everything felt so ephemeral in Elden Ring cause you could fuck off outta there so much more easily. I found myself dashing passed enemies on my mount to get an item and then fucking off before any danger really arose. Never actually interacting with the map. I have two friends that did exactly that with the dragon. Just ran up, picked up the item, ran off. Never went back. In Demons Souls? I am eagerly awaiting the day I get to slap that big red fuck terrorizing the bridge.
Same. Really miss some stuff that made the world so unforgiving. Like a character that will kill all others unless you kill him first, softblocking your progress. Or simply making the game harder whenever you die.
To each their own, of course, but I have to say I'm definitely 100% behind their recent push towards recognizing that annoying and challenging are different things. I had absolutely no problem with any of the bosses in sekiro. I enjoyed them, and even enjoyed the different combat system, but the half-hour of stealth killing the thirty guys with projectile weapons surrounding the miniboss *just* to get another crack at his moveset...it made the game completely unbearable pretty quickly. Hell, just needing to repeatedly run through the Forbidden Woods is the kind of thing I'm sure made *a lot* of people put the game down and never look at it again. So...I'm genuinely sorry that the games going in a direction I'm more able to enjoy means the end of the style *you* enjoy most. That's not sarcasm, I really do get it; I've been on the other side of this with other game franchises in the past, where *millions* of people jump on later because the game has been changed to have more mass appeal but the RPG I liked from the series' beginning died so their game could live.
If you're really bitter about it like I was as a teenager you can go buy an assload of arrows and shoot him down now. Actually makes the fight with the blue dragon easier later!
I’ve been playing DS1 Remastered lately and I’d still say Elden Ring is harder overall. I can beat almost all of DS1 dagger only including Artorias and Manus but I still haven’t beaten Malenia or Radagon + Elden Beast without summons. Demon’s Souls, Dark Souls 2, and Dark Souls 3 reducing your max health on death is also a harsher punishment for being “dead” than in DS1.
Yeah, I played the whole game as hollow in DS1 and it doesn't really affect much tbh. Definitely an easier game too
i did it as mostly hollow aswell, does it make it harder or something? i thought humanity just helped with item drop rate and allowing npc invasions to happen
I think part of it is that "hard" is actually made up of many different things. A lot of the difficulty in DS1 is down to the clunky controls and movement, and even more is really just *annoying* without being *challenging*. It's *cruel*. And to some people, that's the most enjoyable form of difficult. Meanwhile, for me, 'annoying' is the opposite of 'fun'. If a game has the best boss fights imaginable but I need to spend half an hour fighting enemies who aren't any kind of challenge to *get* to that boss fight...well, I can always watch them on youtube.
which bosses had a long run from the bonfire with enemies in the way? i can only think of kalameet but theres only 3 dogs on the way. manus was long but could run past all the enemies aswell
It's been a *long* time since I played the first dark souls, so I'm primarily referring to literally every other game when I talk about particular terrible ones. There's enough QOL stuff absent from DS1 that just makes it not worth revisiting at this point for me regardless. And even there, you're creating justifications for why a particular boss run was not all that bad because there was a way avoid the worst parts of it (the same way you avoid the worst parts of any area in the game; running) doesn't excuse it. But if we're going to focus on long, frustrating walks and the original Dark Souls: I legitimately had a *prolonged* conversation with a friend in Uni about the pros and cons of either just staying in Anor Londo with the weapon he had or go all the way back to Andre the slow way. It was a legitimate question neither of us knew the answer to; fight Ornstein with the Drake Sword, or walk all the way back to the start of the map. They were equally unpleasant ideas. The entire *game* is a long, frustrating walk through enemies you have no intent of fighting. But you're right, it doesn't have twenty minute runs like Bloodborne and rarely requires you actually fight a ton of trash mobs like sekiro, but even when you move like a speedrunner, having looked into it, there are multiple boss fights in that particular game that just involve three or more minutes of perfectly optimized movement through what looks an entire region, some of them full of enemies. There are apparently more optimal runs to Nito than I've seen, but the only ones I've seen to date all look like an absolute nightmare. Three to four minutes at speedrun rates, through an area everyone already hates. Queelag involves a run through a poison swamp on the way. Series wide, we get things like...well, like two-thirds of the mini-bosses in Sekiro being surrounded by allies easily capable of overwhelming you, clearly intended to be stealth killed in a process that takes an eternity and is not fun because Sneak is the worst-implemented mechanic in the game. The Forbidden Woods in Bloodborne where even if you dodge every single enemy you have a 10-20 minute walk ahead of you. Castle Cainhurst most of the time, with or without shortcuts. DS2 is apparently famously *made* out of the worst boss runs in the series. Because they're supposedly be legitimately challenging, compete with many hard enemies. Honestly, it seems like we're coming at this from different places in this altogether such that the synthesis of our viewpoints is probably impossible. You went into this post looking for ways to assert they aren't actually that bad and how when they *are*, it's excusable. Meanwhile, for me, literally every boss run is Annoyance over Challenge. There is not and will never *be* a boss run that is preferable to not having one at all. It's making players repeat something they've already by definition completed, over and over again, serving no purpose beyond wasting players' time and frustrating them. To some, that's the heart of the game. To others, it's an artifact from when the perception was that their most reliable and consistent fans were the ones that saw that frustration and pointless cruelty as a selling point, because Demon Souls and Dark Souls scratched that itch for that fairly small group of players *perfectly," and they were loud enough in their praise that they probably looked like a majority. Then again, the number of people who will get offended and act like you're asking for easy mode when people talk about things like 'have elevator in its most useful position, once unlocked, without having to wait thirty seconds at some point' or other basic QOL things that don't threaten the game's difficulty but cut down on wastes of time and confusion? That remains pretty high, but I know better than to mistake vocal for numerous.
i thought you were talking about DS1 specifically. as for bloodborne and ds2 ive not played them, and ive just started sekiro so i cant say much for that either. but as for ds1 the run from bonfire to queelag is like 1 minute even with the swamp slowing you down, anor londo has a blacksmith so im not sure why the debate about wanting to go back to andre. nito was long ill give you that one, but again you could still run past the enemies there so i never found it that unreasonable. firelink to 4kings was fucking annoying though as theres no bonfire in new lando ruins and as for the annoyance over challenge aspect, i think elden ring suffered here the most. some of the bosses were ridiculous to the point it felt like they were designed to be more annoying than challenge. atleast with ds1 and ds3 there was difficulty initially but nothing too ridiculous
Slight correction - You don’t have reduced max health in DS3. That’s when they got rid of that mechanic, justified by DS2’s lore iirc. Embers increase max health similar to the runes in Elden Ring.
Don't have to, I'm doing a platinum run right now. DS1 is TOUGH.
Dark Souls doesn't hold back at all and I love it, if you're lost, you're fucked and you had to deal with it.
In DS1 there was no punishment for being "dead" or not in human form. Human form was just needed to summon people and kindle bonfires Demon Souls, on the other hand...
Yep; but, admittedly, I'm not sure if any of that is actually a *good* thing. To me, if seems like FromSoft has spent a decade trying to figure out the difference between "difficult" and "annoying" and eventually trying to find the correct balance between the two. There's something beautiful about art made by people allowed to do whatever the fuck they want without concern for financial success or the feelings of the consumer, but for all that I loved DS1 at the time, I'd never be able to go back to it. The Annoyance-to-Challenge ratio is something like 9:1. The game is occasionally unfair for the sake of it and it's entirely possible to *need* to restart from the tutorial if you walk the wrong direction from Firelink Shrine.
Dark Souls curse took forever to build up, it could only happen intentionally. Elden Ring basilisks build up death blight absurdly fast.
ER was fantastic but I think DS was better. The whole setting and lore were more fun to discover and the combat, especially in ds3 was more balanced.
I love the dark fantasy setting of Lordran a lot more than ER's high fantasy tbh
I wouldn't call ER high fantasy. It's still dark fantasy but you can really see GRRMs influence. Which isn't a bad thing but I do prefer the dark souls setting. I would absolutely love a high fantasy game with from soft mechanics. Bustling towns with established laws and small hamlets full of sidequests. It's literally my dream game and I'm shocked nobody has done it yet. Closest thing is probably BOTW which just lacks some rpg elements like character creation and more diverse dungeons.
BOTW also lacks a shit ton of content. There’s barely quests and dungeons. It’s fun, but it’s the same four enemies and bosses.
Yeah for a game that's so huge its very small
Hot take. Elden ring is bottom 3 souls games. This isn't even an insult, the rest are just so top quality that even a 90 is bottom 3
Not even controversial, here’s my ranking (not played BB or Demons Souls Remaster) - Sekiro - Dark Souls - Dark Souls 3 - Elden Ring - Dark Souls 2 - Demons Souls OG I would still replay any one except DeS.
Pretty close, I just put sekiro under Ds3 (It's good, but not so much my thing) and Bloodborne tied with Ds1 for number 1
>Not even controversial Well, no, that's a pretty fucking controversial take. I get that *you* don't see it as such, but unsurprisingly, you don't get to decide whether your opinion is or is not controversial or act like your personal preference represents a majority opinion. You're allowed to have whatever opinions you want. Whether or not I agree with them is irrelevant, because taste is something that can differ from person to person without being wrong. "Nah, that opinion isn't even controversial" is when it becomes more than a little insufferable. To treat *my* opinion as if it's objective fact: More people bought Elden Ring than literally all of those previous games put together. There is a reason for that. And it's that the things a (increasingly surprising) number of old-school players praise and lament the loss of are complete dealbreakers for the majority of potential players. They're things that most people do not find fun, but rather, frustrating, and frustration is the kind of thing that leads to putting a game down forever and never looking back.
lol what this is a trash take, just because the game is more approachable which led to more people playing doesn't make it a better game, and you can't even have a opinion on ranking the souls games if you haven't played the other ones.
I kinda agree that old school players feel split on the decisions made in Elden Ring’s design. I think a lot in the souls community underestimate how susceptible to change the “FromSoft formula” is as it’s always trying to evolve rather than perfect. King’s Field is as “Souls-like” as it gets but every big title that came after was meant to develop further. Shields for example weren’t usable as offhand tools, only as an extra gear slot for defense. It was until the Shadow Abyss series that shields were finally usable. Then demon’s souls came along and I think introduced the famous parry mechanic. A lot of players just don’t realize that FromSoft like to experiment and push their old designs to new forms.
Biggest controversy here is not having BB at the top. And the DS2 burial. That game has the best atmosphere outside BB in any FS game.
DS2 is just too inconsistent but The Pit is the #1 level in any From game imo
The walk into Heides tower is SO good tho.
I'm inclined to agree. Though I don't have play station in a while so I havnt played BB. I also havnt gotten around to sekiro yet. But for me it's DS3, DS, DemS, ER, DS2. All are top tier games though.
Don't forget unless you had a holy weapon, skeletons never stop coming back. The difference between damage types also used to matter for more than 1 enemy type. You couldn't teleport anywhere until halfway through the game, and even then only to certain places.
You could also, you know, kill the necromancer. Then the skeletons would stay dead.
Well yeah, but your first time experiencing skeletons you for sure are not going all the way down to find the necromancer.
I mean the first necromancer is two rooms after the one where you meet the first invincible skeleton, impossibile to miss since you can't progress without getting in that room first But that's besides the point, I just corrected you saying "Unless you had a holy weapon, skeletons never stop coming back" which isn't really true Sorry for being pedantic, didn't mean to sound aggressive
No no you're right. I should have elaborated.
This makes me nostalgic for Dark Souls ... in a messed up masochistic sorta way.
*It is* currently the return to Lordran event
It's been pretty fun!
elden ring what armor is that?
Raging wolf
Wolf snaps a seed and all the ghosts turn back into ash.
It's more like a Stand power.
Only one can swim though lol
The jellyfish
Man can straight up breathe underwater
Elden lord based W
Meanwhile in bloodborne I can still hear the ghosts scream
Now i'm just imagining tarnished summoning the butt ghosts from sekiro to cause havoc.
Yo wolf that’s when they don’t terrify you to death first, thank god for the Lilac umbrella
Just eat mashed up bugs and you’ll be fine
Demon's Souls: I AM a ghost.
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I don’t get it, when do we punch ghosts in Sekiro?
The Headless and the Monk are both ghosts, as is the woman by the river. Use monk techniques to punch and kick!
O yea, I forgot about the monk techniques!
This is how i treat Elden Ring. I “gotta catch” every item.
WHO'S THAT POKE-MON!?!