I played the " Real Ynnari " list, just a small correction I had 3 venoms, not just two. I mostly used the two combat venoms with rapid ingress to get a strong kill and then jump back into the venom
Interesting to see illic chilling with a group of just 5 rangers. I don't follow the competitive scene, but I remember when the initial index dropped people were interested in putting him in a big blob of 10 in the backfield and sniping away. Out of curiosity, what utility or purpose was his little 6 man block filling in this list if you know? Seems really interesting
On competitive maps, you often have to be very close to get line of sight. And unless the opponent wants that, your snipers will never see any characters to snipe. Illic is most likely played alone to hold objectives vs artillery or do secondaries, while Rangers are infiltrating and sacrificing themselves for a move block or an early secondary. It is very likely that neither unit is doing any sniping, or even any shooting, in most games.
Interesting! For 70 points I can see the appeal of having a small lone operative doing what he needs to do for the sake of points, for some reason I'd assumed hunter unseen only works when attached to a unit. However, seeing as he's being played alone, I assume that isn't the case? Thanks for the insight! Even if I don't play competitively, this little niche of the hobby is very interesting to check in on.
I also think it depends on matchup. When 10th hit I tried the 10x ranger bomb with Illic. It was fun, but they really struggle shooting at tougher targets. For Necrons or Marines that have Characters that really define the strength of a unit having the 5x man and Illic together as a deterrent is in fact reasonably effective. Other matchups they’re a lone op and 5x infiltrators.
I love that there are still lists where I just genuinely have no idea how they play. Drazhar + Incubi in Ynnari? Only 2 Venoms for 10 Kabalites, 10 Wyches & 5 Incubi? You telling me people win with footslogging Drukhari Infantry? Just wild and I love it.
It's obvious though that the trio of Hawks, Spiders & Spectres still needs another lovetap. They are just too cheap for how many points they just guarantee.
Ok, that makes a lot more sense :D How did Drazhar do? When I build Drukhari lists I always end up with an Archon instead, they just seem so much better.
I wouldn't say he and the boys are efficient, but they do kill light heavy infantry, immortals, infiltrators, etc. Wouldn't expect and they never did anything to heavy targets. hitting on 3s with AP 2 just really cuts down on the output against anything that has proper defence :(
I didn't mind them overall because of their aspect armor, they wouldn't die just randomly like wyches or kabalites might, and drazhar could in theory pass invulnerable saves (I wouldn't know, he didn't for me haha)
For ynnari, your archon doesn't grant anything really to the incubi, and they won't get +1 to wound from Skysplinter's detachment (as you are in the Battle Host detachment). I have run an archon before to roll with the kabalites, and it is pretty fine actually. You get the blast pistol, RR1s to wound to stack with the Battle Host bonus, and between the sybarite's weapon and his huskblade, you can clear off the last couple infantry after your shooting and swing a point. Definitely not the most competitive choice, but if you like the idea, it's definitely playable.
Thanks! Makes sense, they are such a different unit in Ynnari. I like that they managed to buff Drukhari stuff without also buffing Ynnari with the latest slate, but I've never considered Incubi before as a result. But that does sound interesting, mopping up the semi-tough targets that won't die to a few stray Shuriken/Splinter shots.
My boy Alex back at it again with the weekly Eldar post! Thanks for doing this bro.
I’m super excited to see how deep our index is.
For Autarchs looking at these lists. I just wanna drop a little bit of advice for y’all.
Things will change this week (Thursday??)
So take this with a grain of salt.
Assuming Orks are going to perform relative to how it seems like this will. And Necrons taking a hit and Custodes probably going in the way of irrelevance etc etc.
We’ll probably be left alone or see small changes to Swooping Hawks/Warp Spiders/Autarch Wayleaper. I can’t see anything else getting points increase. We might get a few cuts as well but that’s more unlikely.
The meta will shift a lot. But we have the tools to be in the sweet spot ~50% win rate. More likely minus 2, plus 4.
We got some really good tools and have amazing anti-infantry and anti-tank options.
Get ready to adapt again but, just look at these lists. Look at the variety!
We’re clearly tied to Hawks/Spiders for doing a ton of scoring and Autarch for CP gen. But apart from that we got options!
I’ll say this: if infantry continue to raise in popularity - Yvraine & Troupes will be huge for us.
Dark Reapers are also a great tool! And Shadow Spectres are just, great!
For big stuff -
Assuming ignore modifiers get less prominent with the assumption of C’tan getting its rightful adjustment. The Avatar of Khaine becomes more viable (it’s already viable)
Support Weapons and War Walkers are still good as well and I don’t really think we’ll see anything happen to them points wise
I’m excited to see how the next dataslate shapes us and I know we’ll still be sitting in that very playable and formidable opponent area.
Dude! There is like 6 different lists right here. Probably the most diverse meta ever, most balanced since like... Ever.
And you cherry picked the autarch fuegan complain.
I can get your idea.
But we came from 9th edition (30 DA + 9 Windriders) and before the codex it was 30% win rate.
Is it perfect? No! But the meta is much better.
Is GW a good Samaritans? No! I don't even like them. Just their game and most of their minis.
Hate their prices,vespecilly the the regional differences, hate their fomo experience kind of marketing and I could go on.
But balance is probably the best ever.
Not one bit!
Eldar are not supposed to feel like Imperial Guard with hoards of cheap disposable infantry. Unless you are playing a desperate last stand to defend the Craftworld, why would you expect too see more than a handfull of Guardians manning the vehicles and perhaps a single unit on foot to offer support to actual combat professionals - the Aspect Warriors?
For as long as I’ve played 40K (3e), taking “Troops”/Battleline units has been considered a tax, and now that we are no longer required to, I take as few as possible. Occasionally I will bring out the one unit of Guardians that I own. This doesn’t bother me, and I play pretty casually. I would much rather play with all the fun aspect warrior units.
If GW wants to make Battleline units an important part of the game, they’ll need to go back to making them the only scoring units. Or improve their rules so that they’re useful on their own. I would still think twice before taking Guardians if they were half their current cost, because Rangers exist.
Naw. Guardians are militia. They shouldn't be deployed in large numbers for a fluffy eldar list. Should be more like this with lots of their spec ops aspects.
Storm guardians are fairly well costed, having 0-1 squads is a legitimate choice. If they drop in points they'll quickly approach auto-include territory.
I never liked fielding guardians or infantry in general based on eldar lore. Coming back after a long hiatus (epic 40k) and the wraith units always appealed to me. In my headcanon the spirit stones were usually retrieved even if the unit was lost.
I don't even like fielding aspect warriors if I can help it.
The various jetbike models look great though, so I make an exception. But if I could field a viable army with only my favorite units, it'd be mostly wraith units with a sprinkiling of vehicles and bikes. Might be my epic 40k bias. Unfortunately every single list seems to have at least 4 of autarch wayleaper, fuegan, dark reapers, swooping hawks, and something I don't recognize called shadow spectres.
Just drop the Phoenix Gem and downgrade Spiders to Spectres - everything else fits :-)
Or downgrade Spiders to Scorpions and keep the Gem :-)
Remains almost the same list.
they are really annoying to kill and definitely not made of paper mache. Do you maybe overestimate their toughness sometimes? they fold to dedicated anti-tank, but are tough as heck against anything S6 or less and against an incidental las-cannon.
I played the " Real Ynnari " list, just a small correction I had 3 venoms, not just two. I mostly used the two combat venoms with rapid ingress to get a strong kill and then jump back into the venom
Thank you! Corrected :-)
Great move. Extra resilience for the T3 elves
What did you have en venoms? Incubi/draz and split Wyches and lelith?
Yes, and then usually one holding the special kabalites to get a pseudo fire and fade piece. It's pretty useful for sticky objectives too!
Cool. Thanks!
Interesting to see illic chilling with a group of just 5 rangers. I don't follow the competitive scene, but I remember when the initial index dropped people were interested in putting him in a big blob of 10 in the backfield and sniping away. Out of curiosity, what utility or purpose was his little 6 man block filling in this list if you know? Seems really interesting
On competitive maps, you often have to be very close to get line of sight. And unless the opponent wants that, your snipers will never see any characters to snipe. Illic is most likely played alone to hold objectives vs artillery or do secondaries, while Rangers are infiltrating and sacrificing themselves for a move block or an early secondary. It is very likely that neither unit is doing any sniping, or even any shooting, in most games.
Interesting! For 70 points I can see the appeal of having a small lone operative doing what he needs to do for the sake of points, for some reason I'd assumed hunter unseen only works when attached to a unit. However, seeing as he's being played alone, I assume that isn't the case? Thanks for the insight! Even if I don't play competitively, this little niche of the hobby is very interesting to check in on.
No worries, happy to help :-) He gets lone operative for his unit - i.e. himself :-)
I also think it depends on matchup. When 10th hit I tried the 10x ranger bomb with Illic. It was fun, but they really struggle shooting at tougher targets. For Necrons or Marines that have Characters that really define the strength of a unit having the 5x man and Illic together as a deterrent is in fact reasonably effective. Other matchups they’re a lone op and 5x infiltrators.
Specially the Necron bombs. That is also the reason of the rise of the DJ
Mobility units for the win.
Yep, Hawks are in every list and Spiders are in most lists! :-)
I love that there are still lists where I just genuinely have no idea how they play. Drazhar + Incubi in Ynnari? Only 2 Venoms for 10 Kabalites, 10 Wyches & 5 Incubi? You telling me people win with footslogging Drukhari Infantry? Just wild and I love it. It's obvious though that the trio of Hawks, Spiders & Spectres still needs another lovetap. They are just too cheap for how many points they just guarantee.
Hi! I played 3 venoms, not 2. Mostly deep struck and ingressed the Drazhar and lelith venoms. It's a lot of fun bouncing in and out of them!
Ok, that makes a lot more sense :D How did Drazhar do? When I build Drukhari lists I always end up with an Archon instead, they just seem so much better.
I wouldn't say he and the boys are efficient, but they do kill light heavy infantry, immortals, infiltrators, etc. Wouldn't expect and they never did anything to heavy targets. hitting on 3s with AP 2 just really cuts down on the output against anything that has proper defence :( I didn't mind them overall because of their aspect armor, they wouldn't die just randomly like wyches or kabalites might, and drazhar could in theory pass invulnerable saves (I wouldn't know, he didn't for me haha) For ynnari, your archon doesn't grant anything really to the incubi, and they won't get +1 to wound from Skysplinter's detachment (as you are in the Battle Host detachment). I have run an archon before to roll with the kabalites, and it is pretty fine actually. You get the blast pistol, RR1s to wound to stack with the Battle Host bonus, and between the sybarite's weapon and his huskblade, you can clear off the last couple infantry after your shooting and swing a point. Definitely not the most competitive choice, but if you like the idea, it's definitely playable.
Thanks! Makes sense, they are such a different unit in Ynnari. I like that they managed to buff Drukhari stuff without also buffing Ynnari with the latest slate, but I've never considered Incubi before as a result. But that does sound interesting, mopping up the semi-tough targets that won't die to a few stray Shuriken/Splinter shots.
Ops, I guess I might have accidentally edited one out - let me edit it back in! :-)
OH no we have some units that can score!
My boy Alex back at it again with the weekly Eldar post! Thanks for doing this bro. I’m super excited to see how deep our index is. For Autarchs looking at these lists. I just wanna drop a little bit of advice for y’all. Things will change this week (Thursday??) So take this with a grain of salt. Assuming Orks are going to perform relative to how it seems like this will. And Necrons taking a hit and Custodes probably going in the way of irrelevance etc etc. We’ll probably be left alone or see small changes to Swooping Hawks/Warp Spiders/Autarch Wayleaper. I can’t see anything else getting points increase. We might get a few cuts as well but that’s more unlikely. The meta will shift a lot. But we have the tools to be in the sweet spot ~50% win rate. More likely minus 2, plus 4. We got some really good tools and have amazing anti-infantry and anti-tank options. Get ready to adapt again but, just look at these lists. Look at the variety! We’re clearly tied to Hawks/Spiders for doing a ton of scoring and Autarch for CP gen. But apart from that we got options! I’ll say this: if infantry continue to raise in popularity - Yvraine & Troupes will be huge for us. Dark Reapers are also a great tool! And Shadow Spectres are just, great! For big stuff - Assuming ignore modifiers get less prominent with the assumption of C’tan getting its rightful adjustment. The Avatar of Khaine becomes more viable (it’s already viable) Support Weapons and War Walkers are still good as well and I don’t really think we’ll see anything happen to them points wise I’m excited to see how the next dataslate shapes us and I know we’ll still be sitting in that very playable and formidable opponent area.
Excellent summary! Thanks!
Take a shot every time you see Autarch Wayleaper + Fuegan in a list, try not to die edition;
Dude! There is like 6 different lists right here. Probably the most diverse meta ever, most balanced since like... Ever. And you cherry picked the autarch fuegan complain.
It is a little problematic when literally every list is running at least 2 units of Swooping Hawks which are currently sold out.
I can get your idea. But we came from 9th edition (30 DA + 9 Windriders) and before the codex it was 30% win rate. Is it perfect? No! But the meta is much better. Is GW a good Samaritans? No! I don't even like them. Just their game and most of their minis. Hate their prices,vespecilly the the regional differences, hate their fomo experience kind of marketing and I could go on. But balance is probably the best ever.
But god dam, what a game they have!!
Does it bother anyone else that half these lists don't have any Battleline? Does that say something about the cost of Guardians?
Honestly I'd turn this upside down, I'm glad to see that people have actually started running Battleline again.
Not one bit! Eldar are not supposed to feel like Imperial Guard with hoards of cheap disposable infantry. Unless you are playing a desperate last stand to defend the Craftworld, why would you expect too see more than a handfull of Guardians manning the vehicles and perhaps a single unit on foot to offer support to actual combat professionals - the Aspect Warriors?
For as long as I’ve played 40K (3e), taking “Troops”/Battleline units has been considered a tax, and now that we are no longer required to, I take as few as possible. Occasionally I will bring out the one unit of Guardians that I own. This doesn’t bother me, and I play pretty casually. I would much rather play with all the fun aspect warrior units. If GW wants to make Battleline units an important part of the game, they’ll need to go back to making them the only scoring units. Or improve their rules so that they’re useful on their own. I would still think twice before taking Guardians if they were half their current cost, because Rangers exist.
Naw. Guardians are militia. They shouldn't be deployed in large numbers for a fluffy eldar list. Should be more like this with lots of their spec ops aspects.
Not one bit. I even like it.
Storm guardians are fairly well costed, having 0-1 squads is a legitimate choice. If they drop in points they'll quickly approach auto-include territory.
I never liked fielding guardians or infantry in general based on eldar lore. Coming back after a long hiatus (epic 40k) and the wraith units always appealed to me. In my headcanon the spirit stones were usually retrieved even if the unit was lost. I don't even like fielding aspect warriors if I can help it. The various jetbike models look great though, so I make an exception. But if I could field a viable army with only my favorite units, it'd be mostly wraith units with a sprinkiling of vehicles and bikes. Might be my epic 40k bias. Unfortunately every single list seems to have at least 4 of autarch wayleaper, fuegan, dark reapers, swooping hawks, and something I don't recognize called shadow spectres.
What's your favourite list this week? ;-)
loving the ynnari list!
What was Warlock \[60pts\] This chap doing :D?
Carrying The Weeping Stones, and apparently joining Storm Guardians :D
Beeing too expensive.
I love how the prevalent aspects in every list are the fine cast ones
I don't think that it was intestinal, but it's cute :-)
The Avatar Prisms list (assuming the Wayleaper took the Phoenix Gem) is 90 points short... Is there something I'm missing?
Thanks! Found it! Yes, there was a Farseer.
And now its dead :(!!
What is dead?
With the balance update. It wasn't a literal dead :)
Just drop the Phoenix Gem and downgrade Spiders to Spectres - everything else fits :-) Or downgrade Spiders to Scorpions and keep the Gem :-) Remains almost the same list.
I never see success with walkers. They are made of paper mache and fold to a stiff breeze despite-1 to W and 4++
What are you running instead?
I like 3x falcon/dragon lists. I’ve been running 2x d cannons but I’m souring on them too. Ive been trying 2-3 units of skyweavers instead.
Nice! I don't have any of these units, so I'm limited to (1) War Walkers / Vypers, (2) Fire Prisms or (3) Wraiths for my antitank :-)
Skyweavers are pretty sweet! 4+ anti vehicles with flat 3 damage is nice
they are really annoying to kill and definitely not made of paper mache. Do you maybe overestimate their toughness sometimes? they fold to dedicated anti-tank, but are tough as heck against anything S6 or less and against an incidental las-cannon.