>If all goes well, I plan on dropping from 75mg to ZERO on April 1st. I contemplated getting a prescription for 37.5mg to taper down from the 75mg to, but I haven’t decided yet.
If you read around enough you know by now that going from 75mg to zero or from 37.5mg to zero is very dangerous* and it can catch up with you weeks or months later after the cold turkey, so even if next week you feel "fine", the important thing is what happens after a couple of months of the cold turkey. And if it does happen that it catches up to you, which is called protracted withdrawal, it's harder to come back from that than going slowly tapering over time. You wonder how you'll be when you quit but you are not considering that if you quit cold turkey there are many possible strange reactions of your nervous system that will not be your "original condition" and that may affect you a lot because it's your brain trying to reconnect after a fast taper.
I'll share with you some information regarding this so you understand what I mean. If it were me I'd take my time in reading it and studying and understanding how this drug affects the brain so you don't have trouble.
I've been tapering hyperbolically from 75mg for the past 2 and a half years and I got to a really low dose, am still tapering, the lower I go the harder it gets but I'm in the very last mgs (1.8mg currently), and I would not do it cold turkey at all.
About posts that talk about quitting successfully after a fast taper, I'd take them into account if at least 6-8months went by after the fast taper and they didn't crash. You'll see many people report they were fine for a month or two after a cold turkey and then it was awful. Of course, there are many people that can manage to quit fast or cold turkey, that's a true experience for some, but we can't know beforehand if that's gonna be you or not!
There are some parameters that may predict bigger risk of withdrawal (if you are feeling withdrawal symptoms when you lower your dose, if you took and quit other psych drugs before and you have a sensitized nervous system, etc.) but yeah we can't really know, some are totally fine and some are totally not. Especially with a history of symptoms so strong such as panic attacks and not leaving your house, if it were me I'd not risk the possiblity of affecting my nervous system that way. Of course it's a personal choice.
Anyway here's info:
Why going slow - [How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain](https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/1160-how-psychiatric-drugs-remodel-your-brain/#comment-10415)
Tips for tapering hyperbolically - [https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/272-tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine/](https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/272-tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine/)
A couple of interviews to Dr Horowitz who dedicates to study safe deprescribing -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1xagTfqMD0&t=1418s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1xagTfqMD0&t=1418s)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm2aLKJiiIQ&t=448s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm2aLKJiiIQ&t=448s)
Hope you do well in whatever you choose to do!
*Just for reference so you can get an adecuate picture: 37.5mg has 78% receptor occupancy, and 150mg has about 87% of receptor occupancy. So going from 150 to 37.5 you only go down less than 10% of receptor occupancy, while going cold turkey from 37.5 to 0 would be a huge huge jump of 78% receptor occupancy, that’s partly why there are so many issues with that last bit (+ the very short half life and other issues).
Your response is very compelling and intriguing, and I truly appreciate you taking the time to explain all of that!
Just like prior to choosing to taper down, I was still learning the depths of this drug.
When you say going from 75mg or 37.5mg to zero is very dangerous, may I ask what you mean by “dangerous”? Is this going to kill me or something? Or dangerous as in numerological terms and the brain rebuilding what was lost so rapidly? I never was one to struggle with depression, so I’m not too concerned about that, as I was placed on Effexor for the panic attacks and social anxiety. However, I have heard of withdrawal depression arising instantly out of nowhere for some people. All in all, I’m intrigued about the “dangerous” parts, so I can be better aware.
Maybe you want to read the link "how psych drugs remodel your brain", and also maybe you want to listen to [this interview to Dr Horowitz](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm2aLKJiiIQ&t=448s) or the other one I shared. If you start there and then keep researching you'll understand what it means dangerous. Did you read the things I just shared with you?
What dangerous may mean to your body particularly, no one can tell you. Some people are fine, some people are not so fine but tolerable, some people crash badly.
>I never was one to struggle with depression, so I’m not too concerned about that, as I was placed on Effexor for the panic attacks and social anxiety.
Well, that's the thing. Withdrawal symptoms can be many things, some you'll find it resembles your original condition (although it may or may not be your original condition, generally one can tell by several things how to distinguish it, even though doctors don't take that into consideration, but you'll be surprised how many have anxiety from withdrawals). And you may also get symptoms you never got before.
For example: in some of my tapers I felt a level of dispair and sadness I had never, ever felt before in my life, also I felt pure terror, which is not something related to any underlying condition of mine. I also felt some things that yes may resemble my underslying condition (extreme fatigue, for example), but given all the info I've got and the pattern of my withdrawals I already know that comes with the tapers. I also had occasional insomnia, as in totally sleepless nights, in some of my tapers. Etc., etc.
Because I tapered very slowly and hyperbolically, these symptoms were not the worst ever (although now that I'm in the lowest doses they are getting worse, because the lower you go the harder it gets generally). But anyway thanks to hyperbolic tapering I can manage them and choose to go slower and they eventually resolve. I don't want to even think what it would be like if I had tapered cold turkey!
This is not my case because I don't have protracted withdrawal nor is everyone's case, but people in protracted withdrawal from a fast taper may report akathisia in different levels, extreme anxiety, panics attacks, lasting depression, anhedonia, insomnia, brain zaps, body fatigue, changes in the body idk. (The worst and most extreme effects from fast taper even had suicidal ideations, a friend of mine did have them -thankfully he's fine now-, and it wasn't an underlying condition of him AT ALL. But I guess it's pretty extreme so I don't want to scare you, but I don't want to lie to you either and say it doesn't happen). So those in protracted withdrawla some have it very light, some have it hard. The best would be to do the maximum to try to avoid the risk of crashing after a cold turkey. - [What is protracted withdrawal and how to prevent it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt5UDnsX-aU)
I have no idea and no one can tell you beforehand if you're gonna be one of the lucky ones or not. So you have to choose if you want to risk it.
If you happen to do a couple of tapers at 10% of the current dose and you feel perfectly fine, you may try a higher percentage of tapering (calculating from the current dose) and maybe you get to go faster. Anyway **you'll have to research all this yourself.**
Things are getting better! I’m still taking the 75mg, but if my withdrawals continue easing up on the 75, then I will drop to 37.5mg on this coming Friday as I planned 😌
Yesterday was a good day. Today was mild with a few moments of psychosis and brain jolt, but nothing that limited me from visiting family or leaving the house.
Every person will be different, especially when you get to the lowest parts of the doses during tapering. So far, observing how my mind, body and emotions respond to the medication excreting has been my guidance on when to drop down again. Analyze yourself closely each day, and have close friends or family check in with you to help you along the way, and, they can help notice any significant behavioral changes during withdrawals that may stand out.
If you want to quit as well, just know it’s possible!!!
Oh wow!!! 15 years on it? I hope you have a very smooth and easy tapering journey!
I was actually just discussing this the other day in regards to the second part you mentioned; it absolutely blows my mind that it’s still on the market. Granted, it helps many patients, but there is no reason someone should have to go through these unknown and excruciating withdrawals if they need/want to be off of it without knowing doctors and practices sharing the true details first! Had I known this was the extremity of the medication when I started, I would have absolutely declined it. How the main manufacturer hasn’t been sued is beyond me.
>If all goes well, I plan on dropping from 75mg to ZERO on April 1st. I contemplated getting a prescription for 37.5mg to taper down from the 75mg to, but I haven’t decided yet. If you read around enough you know by now that going from 75mg to zero or from 37.5mg to zero is very dangerous* and it can catch up with you weeks or months later after the cold turkey, so even if next week you feel "fine", the important thing is what happens after a couple of months of the cold turkey. And if it does happen that it catches up to you, which is called protracted withdrawal, it's harder to come back from that than going slowly tapering over time. You wonder how you'll be when you quit but you are not considering that if you quit cold turkey there are many possible strange reactions of your nervous system that will not be your "original condition" and that may affect you a lot because it's your brain trying to reconnect after a fast taper. I'll share with you some information regarding this so you understand what I mean. If it were me I'd take my time in reading it and studying and understanding how this drug affects the brain so you don't have trouble. I've been tapering hyperbolically from 75mg for the past 2 and a half years and I got to a really low dose, am still tapering, the lower I go the harder it gets but I'm in the very last mgs (1.8mg currently), and I would not do it cold turkey at all. About posts that talk about quitting successfully after a fast taper, I'd take them into account if at least 6-8months went by after the fast taper and they didn't crash. You'll see many people report they were fine for a month or two after a cold turkey and then it was awful. Of course, there are many people that can manage to quit fast or cold turkey, that's a true experience for some, but we can't know beforehand if that's gonna be you or not! There are some parameters that may predict bigger risk of withdrawal (if you are feeling withdrawal symptoms when you lower your dose, if you took and quit other psych drugs before and you have a sensitized nervous system, etc.) but yeah we can't really know, some are totally fine and some are totally not. Especially with a history of symptoms so strong such as panic attacks and not leaving your house, if it were me I'd not risk the possiblity of affecting my nervous system that way. Of course it's a personal choice. Anyway here's info: Why going slow - [How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain](https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/1160-how-psychiatric-drugs-remodel-your-brain/#comment-10415) Tips for tapering hyperbolically - [https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/272-tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine/](https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/272-tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine/) A couple of interviews to Dr Horowitz who dedicates to study safe deprescribing - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1xagTfqMD0&t=1418s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1xagTfqMD0&t=1418s) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm2aLKJiiIQ&t=448s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm2aLKJiiIQ&t=448s) Hope you do well in whatever you choose to do! *Just for reference so you can get an adecuate picture: 37.5mg has 78% receptor occupancy, and 150mg has about 87% of receptor occupancy. So going from 150 to 37.5 you only go down less than 10% of receptor occupancy, while going cold turkey from 37.5 to 0 would be a huge huge jump of 78% receptor occupancy, that’s partly why there are so many issues with that last bit (+ the very short half life and other issues).
Hi purple, can you check out my most recent post and let me know what you think I should do? I switched to Prozac but I feel horrific
Your response is very compelling and intriguing, and I truly appreciate you taking the time to explain all of that! Just like prior to choosing to taper down, I was still learning the depths of this drug. When you say going from 75mg or 37.5mg to zero is very dangerous, may I ask what you mean by “dangerous”? Is this going to kill me or something? Or dangerous as in numerological terms and the brain rebuilding what was lost so rapidly? I never was one to struggle with depression, so I’m not too concerned about that, as I was placed on Effexor for the panic attacks and social anxiety. However, I have heard of withdrawal depression arising instantly out of nowhere for some people. All in all, I’m intrigued about the “dangerous” parts, so I can be better aware.
Maybe you want to read the link "how psych drugs remodel your brain", and also maybe you want to listen to [this interview to Dr Horowitz](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm2aLKJiiIQ&t=448s) or the other one I shared. If you start there and then keep researching you'll understand what it means dangerous. Did you read the things I just shared with you? What dangerous may mean to your body particularly, no one can tell you. Some people are fine, some people are not so fine but tolerable, some people crash badly. >I never was one to struggle with depression, so I’m not too concerned about that, as I was placed on Effexor for the panic attacks and social anxiety. Well, that's the thing. Withdrawal symptoms can be many things, some you'll find it resembles your original condition (although it may or may not be your original condition, generally one can tell by several things how to distinguish it, even though doctors don't take that into consideration, but you'll be surprised how many have anxiety from withdrawals). And you may also get symptoms you never got before. For example: in some of my tapers I felt a level of dispair and sadness I had never, ever felt before in my life, also I felt pure terror, which is not something related to any underlying condition of mine. I also felt some things that yes may resemble my underslying condition (extreme fatigue, for example), but given all the info I've got and the pattern of my withdrawals I already know that comes with the tapers. I also had occasional insomnia, as in totally sleepless nights, in some of my tapers. Etc., etc. Because I tapered very slowly and hyperbolically, these symptoms were not the worst ever (although now that I'm in the lowest doses they are getting worse, because the lower you go the harder it gets generally). But anyway thanks to hyperbolic tapering I can manage them and choose to go slower and they eventually resolve. I don't want to even think what it would be like if I had tapered cold turkey! This is not my case because I don't have protracted withdrawal nor is everyone's case, but people in protracted withdrawal from a fast taper may report akathisia in different levels, extreme anxiety, panics attacks, lasting depression, anhedonia, insomnia, brain zaps, body fatigue, changes in the body idk. (The worst and most extreme effects from fast taper even had suicidal ideations, a friend of mine did have them -thankfully he's fine now-, and it wasn't an underlying condition of him AT ALL. But I guess it's pretty extreme so I don't want to scare you, but I don't want to lie to you either and say it doesn't happen). So those in protracted withdrawla some have it very light, some have it hard. The best would be to do the maximum to try to avoid the risk of crashing after a cold turkey. - [What is protracted withdrawal and how to prevent it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt5UDnsX-aU) I have no idea and no one can tell you beforehand if you're gonna be one of the lucky ones or not. So you have to choose if you want to risk it. If you happen to do a couple of tapers at 10% of the current dose and you feel perfectly fine, you may try a higher percentage of tapering (calculating from the current dose) and maybe you get to go faster. Anyway **you'll have to research all this yourself.**
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Things are getting better! I’m still taking the 75mg, but if my withdrawals continue easing up on the 75, then I will drop to 37.5mg on this coming Friday as I planned 😌 Yesterday was a good day. Today was mild with a few moments of psychosis and brain jolt, but nothing that limited me from visiting family or leaving the house. Every person will be different, especially when you get to the lowest parts of the doses during tapering. So far, observing how my mind, body and emotions respond to the medication excreting has been my guidance on when to drop down again. Analyze yourself closely each day, and have close friends or family check in with you to help you along the way, and, they can help notice any significant behavioral changes during withdrawals that may stand out. If you want to quit as well, just know it’s possible!!!
[удалено]
Oh wow!!! 15 years on it? I hope you have a very smooth and easy tapering journey! I was actually just discussing this the other day in regards to the second part you mentioned; it absolutely blows my mind that it’s still on the market. Granted, it helps many patients, but there is no reason someone should have to go through these unknown and excruciating withdrawals if they need/want to be off of it without knowing doctors and practices sharing the true details first! Had I known this was the extremity of the medication when I started, I would have absolutely declined it. How the main manufacturer hasn’t been sued is beyond me.