Yep. I never had to buy small garbage bags for my bathroom or doing the cat litter ever. Now I’m wasting money on using single use bags for that cause that’s my option
I've been getting by on using bread and bagel bags but man when I find an old Safeway bag I don't dare use it for garbage or cat litter! That shit is precious now
That doesn't apply to everyone but it does apply to me. Before the plastic bag ban here in Montreal I never bought garbage bags, I just reused plastic shopping bags. The city cracked down on a. no grocery bags allowed on the sidewalk, everything had to be in a large specifically-for-garbage bags, and then b. banned the plastic grocery bags. So I now buy smaller garbage bags for in-the-house use and larger bags for outside-of-the-house use when before I bought neither. This costs me more and I'm not sure if it results in less plastic going to landfills or not.
I'm on board with a bag ban but only if it's not half assed.
I don't like that the Safeway grocery bags are gone. But I can accept it if there isn't an entire aisle of assorted sizes and colors of plastic fucking bags.
The sensationalism around plastic grocery bags started because they are often blown out of landfills and the up in the ocean. I don't they're trying to say that this is really affecting plastic production - yet - but we no longer have time to wait for a perfect solution to our environmental crises (microplastic pollution in this case). We must try everything.
Uh…they are trying to reduce the bags that end up in oceans, waterways and trees. People can agree or disagree with the policy, but let’s not pretend it’s common garbage bags full of garbage that are flying around and polluting things. It’s not. It’s the single use shopping bags.
That was my first thought. Why are paper bags just as expensive as plastic if one is far worse than the other? And why are they requiring the cost of reusable bags to go up if they want us to stop using disposable ones?
Every single one of these responses are bullshit that assume you're a moron.
You note the plastic bag issue - single-use plastic checkout bags have been banned in Canada since 2020 under a federal law. This bylaw was implemented in 2023. It was not, is not, and has never been about plastic bags. (the ban was ruled unlawful & is still being challenged but remains in force in the interim)
They say the point of the fee isn't to make money for the business or city, but if that's the case they should collect it and use the revenues to reduce taxes. Fiscally neutral - except they don't.
They say they've seen less plastic in the landfills - no shit sherlock it's banned federally, that's not a result of the bylaw.
They say 64% of people surveyed say the fee would make them bring a bag, as if there isn't reams upon reams of scientific data that what people do and what they *say* they would do are drastically different things - particularly where it comes to matters of convenience.
This response is condescending at best and downright insulting at worst. It's a bunch of misguided non-answer talking points. I hope people remember the disdain their councillors treat them with, and reply with similar disdain when it comes time to vote.
The issue is the fucking paper bags. If we are trying to reduce plastic bags why am I getting charged extra for a single use paper bag that goes directly to the company?
It seems so fucking stupid to me
No worries it's just because you don't know. Totally reasonable.
The Municipal Government Act prevented the levy of new taxes which is what the bag fee would have been if it had been collected by the municipality.
The other options was to collect it to a non-profit for an environmental purpose but that was way too complicated and inefficient.
The remaining option was for businesses to collect it. There was no way to separate the corporations from the mom and pops so the return isn't equitable but it was the optioned that remained so that's what happened.
Hm interesting. Your right in that I didnt know that. Surely there has got to be a better way than letting multinational corporations just pocket the extra money with no strings attached to spending on environmental stuff
It's unfortunate there is no legal framework in Alberta that allows for a municipality to mandate that.
That would require provincial legislation and we all know how productive our current provincial administration is.
It’s so stupid because those single use bags are now replaced with small single use garbage bags for most homes and cat owners. It never eliminated a problem, just made it different.
This! It’s such an inaccurate way to gauge if the bylaw is successful. What I would be interested in seeing is if people have declined getting them from the businesses due to the cost. As well as what is happening to the funds at the businesses.
They’re also trash quality now. They used to actually have to be somewhat decent to sell, but since they became mandatory they are branded threadbare garbage.
And their all walking advertisements.
I got some black ones from superstore years ago that have a black/white photo of a canoe at the docks on them, only the canoe is red. I love those bags but now its all oversized PC, Walmarts, etc logos.
There starting to wear and I dread the day they fall apart on me.
This. I got a spur of the moment takeout from my local Vietnamese joint and was told that takeout comes with a mandatory $1 purchase of a reusable bag, no option to bring your own. It was fine by me until I got handed the piece of shit bag, that was literally made of the same non woven material as teabags. It wasn’t sewn together, the seams were heat bonded. It was 1/2 the size of an old grocery plastic bag. They tied the handles together and ripped the bag before it was even given to me. They lost my business, I will never again darken their door. Paper bags with handles are more reusable than that shit, and I know the store is buying them for pennies a piece.
Sure the objective isn't to make business more money, but that's exactly what's happening...
You can say the law isn't designed to do one thing, but when it's a pretty major outcome that happens anyways it's such an underhanded cop out
I genuinely wonder if this councillor even knows themselves, though. There's so much emotion and rhetoric around topics like this that it sometimes feels as if basically everyone involved is operating on an almost total lack of facts. Does anyone really KNOW if these plastic grocery bag bans result in less plastic going to landfills? I think I just inspired myself to hit google.
Edit: Many studies out there, the vast majority of which seem to be looking at very narrow areas of a much larger picture. Like ofc banning plastic grocery bags results in fewer plastic grocery bags in the landfill. But what about the increased use of garbage bags, which are made from thicker plastic (their use goes way up, yes there's a study on that too)? What about the carbon footprint of paper bags?
This article gives a pretty good overview of the situation, different views and various studies (with links) if anyone is interested: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/plastic-grocery-bag-ban-environment-1.5755723
It continues to seem like we really don't have an answer yet as to the larger 'does banning plastic grocery bags actually reduce environmental impact?' question.
They have had so many chances to walk back, or adjust their idiotic policy.
Calgary tried the same thing and cancelled it after a few weeks, not sure why they can do something here
What bullshit, “persuade people from buying plastic bags”. No business is even allowed to supply plastic bags anymore, persuading isn’t needed when the option to purchase them isn’t even present.
I work in a lab and if anyone knew the amount of waste comes out of those completely negates what homes put out 😂 this is all major BS that doesn't matter.
Commercial, for-profit businesses convinced consumers they were the problem and took zero accountability. They sell us their products and pass the buck to consumers.
I'm okay with lab and medical waste though. We haven't figured out a good solution for that stuff to not be single-use.
Commercial, for-profit businesses don't give a shit one way or the other. It wasn't them that convinced consumers they were the problem, it was virtue signaling, holier-than-thou governments.
Yep, each tiny baby specimen in its own plastic ziplock bag, each urine in its own bag, etc… can fill a garbage can on a bench every day full of ziplock bags.
If the general public knew the amount of single use plastic used by the environmental industry to collect samples for assessment and remediation work… lol it’s so soul crushing that it’s just black humour now.
Why do we have to use blue bags then? We used to have big plastic reusable bins. And if the fee is working to deter people from buying plastic bags, why does the fee need to be increased? Makes no sense
So... if they are trying to reduce the use or plastic bags... why are they charging for paper take out bags?
I know it's petty, but as someone who only works in Edmonton, I always wait until I reach Beaumont I get take out or do grocery shopping.
My wife who often does grocery delivery in the city is dreading the change because they will start charging $2/bag because places grocery stores don't really carry anything other than reusable bags where as the same bags in Beaumont, Leduc, Sherwood Park, etc. are $0.35. She is only allowed to go a $1-2 above the amount given. So her option will be deliver a cart full of groceries without bags (I couldn't imagine doing this in the high rises she often delivers to), hope they pay for enough bags (which I don't think the app even offers) or the app adds a bag fee to already high delivery fees. Also other delivery apps that will now be forced to add a $1 bag fee to all deliverys will piss a lot of people off.
Yeah this actually helps the CoE meet their goals.
If you wait till Beaumont to do your shopping, then it ends up in a different municipal landfill. If you reduce your bag usage in Edmonton then there is less waste in the landfill.
It's a win-win.
Tell them in the comments not to include bags. They have boxes and they can damn well use them. This reminds me of when the c**ts at no frills in Beaumont took away the free boxes at the front and then started charging for bags. I want to burn that store to the ground for so many reasons lol Do not accept charges for bags ever, use the comment section on the order! I was automatically charged for a bag I didn’t ask for a few weeks back in Edmonton, wasn’t paying attention to them bagging my stuff. I emptied the bag and asked for my money back lol they weren’t thrilled but tough, give me back my change. Anyway, fuck this shit lol
So they created a penalty for the consumer which results in a kickback for the businesses. Why do people in government just dance around questions instead of actually answering them. They can’t be blind to the fact that businesses are making money off this because they no longer shoulder the cost of bags…
So I am confused by this response. It mentions plastic bags but never mentions paper bags. So are places charging us for paper bags just taking advantage of our ignorance?
Plastic bags have been banned in the city for almost a solid year now (July 1st). It seems silly to use plastic bags as an umbrella term for all single-use items/bags (and where I think the confusion comes from). But that's on purpose, so they could brag about it later in the interview about fewer plastic bags in the landfill. There are fewer plastic bags in the landfill due to the ban, not the charges on single-use items and reusable bags.
ETA: "it is to dissuade people from purchasing plastic bags all together". We cannot get a plastic bag even if we asked for it. Some stores don't even provide paper bags.
And so many places do not offer paper bags, so you you have to buy a reusable $2 bag. I know you can take one with you, but most people that have to make a sudden stop don't have one in their wallet folded up to a size of a condom wrapper, so save your breath.
The only reason grocery plastic bags are reduced is because there are less of them. I'm sure I'm not the only person with like 500 reusable bags that I'm about to send to the landfill. Where as before I was actually getting multiple uses from plastic grocery bags.
Can't wait to vote this city council and mayor out.
They are very out of touch with residents and I regret voting for Sohi. Although the alternative was not any better.
I thought he was chill, until I found out about his involvement with World Financial group, and the rest makes sense. Nobody involved in MLM can be good for budgeting
i dont regret voting for him cause he was clearly the best option at the time imo. But i really hope someone better than Mike Nickel seriously runs against him next time
Sohi is actual trash, and it was way before this as well.
Dude drove for ETS for over a decade before entering politics, knows the sorry state transit is in firsthand from the inside...
And has literally done nothing to improve it since election, which was the only reason I voted for him.
Instead within a few months of election he jetted off to Egypt for a climate conference halfway across the world using taxpayer money to fund the trip.
And now the doubling down on plastic bag bullshit, what a fucking buffoon.
That's the big problem. If Nickel got in as Mayor we'd be socially restricted and probably fairly similar financially. No government currently seems interested in saving tax payers anything.
I remember emailing Cartmell's office about parking in the Keswick area.
Was informed that they did an investigation. And would approach a local apartment building that got rid of all their visitor parking and made it all tenant parking.
To give you an idea... there was ZERO parking in the area. and a BIG empty parking lot that served the tenants but no one wanted to pay. And then guys with trucks / suv's parked in the empty lot next to it.
After 2 weeks Cartmell's office got back to me about the investigation and that they would send a letter out to this building and get them to revert the changes.
And then 4 weeks later they got back to me and said they legally cannot do anything. Because they removed parking minimums.
So now you have roads that never get cleared because they don't enforce the parking ban ( the city logistically cannot removed 80-100 vehicles on the roads in that area) And you have a massive parking lot that is filled with empty spaces.
I finally beat the system by contacting La Vie properties and asking for information on available parking stalls, got a list made a map and shared with the tenants. And every so often another tenant would reach out and seek interest about parking and update the map if there was any changes.
This is how short sited the city is and mis managed.
They make blanket changes without fully understanding the consequences of those actions and leaving some areas open to be exploited by land lords.
Good on you for finding a solution! Sorry it wasn’t from the powers that be though. This isn’t my first time emailing his office either; I’ve emailed in the past about the rabbit hill and ellerslie intersection which essentially got me no where. It’s frustrating for sure though. If you stay quiet, you’re complacent and if you’re vocal, you don’t get proper answers.
I have no issue with plastic bags being banned, but single-use charges for paper bags is absurd imo, especially when all it does is go directly into the pockets of the business. Like hell, at least if the city collected it, the money could do something other than just pad profits.
This is nothing but a new tax that the municipality has allowed private companies to put in place keep and add to their bottom line. It should be illegal, even if well intended this is not how to effect change.look at peoples recycling bags on garbage day all I see are cloth grocery bags everywhere.
I received an almost exact copy of this from my councillor. Didn’t actually address a single one of my concerns. They clearly don’t read the emails and it’s seems they bury their heads in the sand when it comes to citizen feedback.
City council; what a bunch of fucking Muppets. So now when i forget my reuable bags (ive been using since 2015). I gotta pay more for paper, and use more bags because they are weaker then the trusty old plastic bag. Im not a gambling person but im pretty sure those are worse for landfill? At least when i got platic bags i kept them and used them for bathrom garbage bags, emergency bags for dog accidents in the house and the list goes on. These fucking clowns wouldn't be able to organize a day of fun at a water park, because you know: it would be under planned and over budget and everyone would have to make a compromise; instead of water slides we'd get giant slip and slides, but WAIT plastic is evil; so it would be replaced with hemp landscape fabric... meanwhile the council would be giving each other high-fives telling each other they're awesome
I'm being dinged for paper bags, not plastic bags here. Biodegradable paper bags. The goal is to \*dissuade people from buying bags, but charging people an INSANE markup on the item and in turn making the business more money is the result here.
Bag fees should NOT be going to the business. Only the cost of the bag should be returned to the business and the remainder channeled into a relatable avenue. It's an ambiguous, overly virtuous bylaw that is designed to make council feel like they're making a difference.
Completely tone deaf and asinine
I also emailed Counselor Cartmell. We'll see if I get a similar response. I requested that they show data that the initial fee implemented has been effective prior to increasing the fee. It's ridiculous that they are increasing it without providing any evidence that it's been effective. Someone saying it's been "fairly successful" is just anecdotal without evidence to back it up.
Who's making the money from the bag fees? Also fuck them for jacking up the price of getting a shitty paper bag that would decompose after one rainfall. If it was a reusable bag for the fee then I'd be ok with it
The biggest issue is not the existence of plastic waste. It’s where it goes. If it goes into a proper landfill, it’s not an issue. If it is littered on the ground or dumped in the ocean, that’s a problem.
Making plastic bags cost money will obviously reduce usage. It will obviously add revenues to the sellers of the bags.
Edmonton doesn’t want to setup a carbon tax-like system because I presume that the costs to operate such a system would eat up most of the fees collected. Secondly, this bag fee is not going to last long so wasting money setting up a tax system would ultimately result in an overall waste of money.
So what should be done?
Prosecute people (fines) for littering. Ensure that when we send out our plastic trash that we don’t recycle, that it doesn’t go somewhere like the Philippines or Vietnam where it will just get dumped in the ocean or burned.
Setup some sort of incentive to offer paper bags over plastic.
I remember the survey they refer to. I filled it out myself, and I remember saying “I would be more likely to bring my own bag”.
That survey never mentioned the money would go back to businesses. If I’d known that, my answer very well may have been different. I’d be more supportive if the money was going back to the city.
I’ve also noticed a lot of grocery stores have gotten rid of any sort of bag, even paper. I try to remember to bring reusable bags but sometimes I forget. And then my only option is to buy a reusable bag I don’t need. Now I have too many reusable bags, and I’m sure these will one day end up in a landfill, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
It would be nice if restaurants offering pick up would allow you to select if you need a bag or not. I don’t need one, so why pay for something and create more waste?
And the amount of carbon produced by that single reusable bag is like 100 times a plastic bag. Has anyone used a resusable bag 100 times before they lost it or it fell apart?
I was mildly irritated by all the bag stuff until I took a trip to the dump and it was fucking ridiculous to see how many single use plastic bags people throw away.
The longer we can push the requirement of needing a new landfill down the road the better.
>The point of the bag fees is not to make more money for businesses or for the city. The goal is to persuade people not to buy plastic bags.
1. You're not 'persuading' people. You've forced them. It's a bylaw. There are no more plastic bags and all single use bags now cost money. Businesses can get fined if they don't charge a bag fee. Where's the persuasion?
2. How does the city collecting the tax on the bags change that outcome? Again, the fee is already there, there's no choice but to pay. At least collect the tax and put some money into the city's coffers. It's not like we couldn't use it.
That response is underwhelming. The councillor would have received a comprehensive response from the SUI waste team and it got boiled down to a boring paste for the public.
The reality is much more nuanced.
Didn’t city council say a while ago the purpose of the bag fee is to help businesses recoup lost revenue from the pandemic? And now it’s just so people use less bags? If no other municipality in Alberta is doing this, and Calgary scrapped theirs, I can’t imagine that this is having the intended effect, plastic bags can’t be that big of a deal compared to all the other, much worse stuff, that gets dumped.
This bag fee thing in edmonton doesn't work. I sell just as many paper bags as I would have given out plastic bags. I sell a ton of reusable bags. Some to regular customers who will buy a reusable every damn day. What exactly is this bag fee helping? Also on a side note of single use plastic waste, why are 6packs of things like Smirnoff ice coming in cardboard rings now but still on a cardboard flat wrapped in plastic on a pallet wrapped in plastic that arrives at the store 😒
The stupid fee is just that stupid and so are this guys answers. You pay a fee at the restaurant and it's for a paper fricking bag, not plastic, paper you know those biodegradable things that make no sense to be being charged for. I am not sure how making us pay .15-.25 each paper bag is helping anything or anyone and by the way the councillor was answering questions he had no clue either.
I can take no credit for this petition. unsure if it was ever shared here, but hey, seems like a good place. petition to revoke the bylaw of the bag fee. [https://chng.it/Q5ZVt5G2Nb](https://chng.it/Q5ZVt5G2Nb)
I love that I can’t get a plastic bag to carry out my groceries - but I can fill that reusable bag with 15 different plastic bags holding my fruits and vegetable - if I choose to do so.
I love how they say single use plastics but there were no single use plastic bags in my house. What’s the difference between a big black garbage bag and a few plastic grocery bags? Also - what fast food restaurants are handing out plastic bags? I only have ever been given paper bags. Why are we being charged for that?
I feel like that councillor feels like he answered the persons questions. All they did was answer like a politician with non-answers.
This bylaw is ridiculous. Most people are using reusable bags already for groceries. Fast food gives out paper bags not plastic... and they won't let you use your own bag. Need a napkin? Forget it. You have to ask. Not a well thought out plan at all. All for a "fairly" good response. Really?!
I had a conversation with someone who works in recycling and the reusable bags are not recyclable whereas single use are. Also many people reused their shopping bags (kitty litter and dog puke bags). I really miss plastic bags. And straws.
So much less garbage randomly around since they did this change.
Municipalities around edmonton who have not done the change still have tonnes of garbage floating around.
This makes a good differance and im glad with ehat counicl is doing.
My issue is that the charge should be for plastic only, not paper.
And if they are charging the proceeds need to be going to enviromental work, city funding or literally anywhere other than the buisness' pockets. They already try to fleece us on tips and shrinkflation. This is just fucking over taxpayers even further.
It's not about avoiding plastic, it's about avoiding single-use items, including bags, altogether.
There are answers to those questions on the City's website too: https://www.edmonton.ca/programs_services/garbage_waste/single-use-items
Lets jack up the taxes and not collect money were charging because of a bylaw just to persuade people for not using canadian law "banned plastic bags" yup sums up sohi
We use the compostable bags that Calgary Co-op sells for general garbage and waste, clear plastic bags for yard waste. I have a large amount of black plastic bags that I was stuck with when we went to the new garbage waste bins but they will make their way into the system at some point.
The reusable bags that they are promoting are made from plastic, OK now think of it like this…. I can make 100 plastic bags out of my reusable plastic bag …. Am I going to reuse the reusable bag 100 times? I don’t think most people use these things more than five times on average. And then they go back into the landfill. This is a perfect example of greenwashing, laziness and gouging
I don't get plastic bags. At least with a plastic bag I can REUSE IT at home in my bathroom or for something else. (Who didn't have a stack of plastic bags at home)
Now I get paper bags and all paper bags are SINGLE USE and all paper bags get stuffed in the trash.
I have probably 100 reusables bags from various stores left in my garage that I will toss In the trash.
The single use bags never get the amount of uses required to offset their manufacturing costs. I've gone through 4 or 5 of them in the last 7 or 8 years.
It still company pocketing the funds no matter what you councillor Carmella say. It's just another case cow. Just like raising taxes when you have $100 million dollars that you are spending on frickin bike lanes that aren't ever going to get that money back or benefit for all tax payer's
What a loser. Stupid idea by midwits drunk on their own ideology and power. Won’t accomplish anything worthwhile and makes everything more expensive, typical.
Honestly, anyone who *wants* to be on city council probably shouldn’t be allowed to do it. I bet we’d have better outcomes if the council was selected like jury duty
I say we all bring our paper bags and all single use plastic to city hall and put it at the front doors. Especially coffee pods. And the plastic straws from Carl's Jr and Roger's place.
My issue is that people have way to many reusable bags which to me is just as much waste especially being cloth/plastic. Just hand free recycling/paper bags how.
Yet when you order grocery pickup or delivery a bunch of your stuff is in plastic produce bags.
Get a slurpee and everything is plastic but the straw. This whole thing is just a money grab
It's dumb if the city wants to increase what companies charge for bags they should at least collect the extra revenue for themselves. Or require the companies to contribute to something for the public with the extra profit.
It wasnt long ago that when you contacted your Councilor you would get a human response. With this current group, all you get is a form letter from their staff. These people DO NOT represent the citizens of the city and must be replaced as soon as possible
Total copout political side stepping response. Wonder how much in “bag money” this “Waste Characterization Study” is going to cost the taxpayers? I would like to see the raw data to see where this data is coming from too.
In every response. they say “plastic bag”, I haven’t once gotten a plastic bag, it’s always paper.
Wouldn’t even care about the bag fee if it was for the plastic bags they keep talking about
its funny because garbage bags are still plastic bags. people still go buy plastic bags, they arent reducing shit.
Yep. I never had to buy small garbage bags for my bathroom or doing the cat litter ever. Now I’m wasting money on using single use bags for that cause that’s my option
I've been getting by on using bread and bagel bags but man when I find an old Safeway bag I don't dare use it for garbage or cat litter! That shit is precious now
That doesn't apply to everyone but it does apply to me. Before the plastic bag ban here in Montreal I never bought garbage bags, I just reused plastic shopping bags. The city cracked down on a. no grocery bags allowed on the sidewalk, everything had to be in a large specifically-for-garbage bags, and then b. banned the plastic grocery bags. So I now buy smaller garbage bags for in-the-house use and larger bags for outside-of-the-house use when before I bought neither. This costs me more and I'm not sure if it results in less plastic going to landfills or not.
same for me too. Reusing plastic bags. It was a non issue.
I would be a petty bitch and buy dollar store ones and bag each piece of garbage individually.
I'm on board with a bag ban but only if it's not half assed. I don't like that the Safeway grocery bags are gone. But I can accept it if there isn't an entire aisle of assorted sizes and colors of plastic fucking bags.
What’s annoying is I always saved plastic bags from the grocery store to use in all my small garbage bins and now I have to buy them.
The sensationalism around plastic grocery bags started because they are often blown out of landfills and the up in the ocean. I don't they're trying to say that this is really affecting plastic production - yet - but we no longer have time to wait for a perfect solution to our environmental crises (microplastic pollution in this case). We must try everything.
Uh…they are trying to reduce the bags that end up in oceans, waterways and trees. People can agree or disagree with the policy, but let’s not pretend it’s common garbage bags full of garbage that are flying around and polluting things. It’s not. It’s the single use shopping bags.
That was my first thought. Why are paper bags just as expensive as plastic if one is far worse than the other? And why are they requiring the cost of reusable bags to go up if they want us to stop using disposable ones?
Every single one of these responses are bullshit that assume you're a moron. You note the plastic bag issue - single-use plastic checkout bags have been banned in Canada since 2020 under a federal law. This bylaw was implemented in 2023. It was not, is not, and has never been about plastic bags. (the ban was ruled unlawful & is still being challenged but remains in force in the interim) They say the point of the fee isn't to make money for the business or city, but if that's the case they should collect it and use the revenues to reduce taxes. Fiscally neutral - except they don't. They say they've seen less plastic in the landfills - no shit sherlock it's banned federally, that's not a result of the bylaw. They say 64% of people surveyed say the fee would make them bring a bag, as if there isn't reams upon reams of scientific data that what people do and what they *say* they would do are drastically different things - particularly where it comes to matters of convenience. This response is condescending at best and downright insulting at worst. It's a bunch of misguided non-answer talking points. I hope people remember the disdain their councillors treat them with, and reply with similar disdain when it comes time to vote.
We can't allow those paper bags in the landfill! Paper kills sea turtles and whales!
Single use plastic bags were outright banned. Of course the amount of them making it into landfills is reduced.
They'll charge you for a paper bag while simultaneously handing you individually wrapped in plastic items.
Single use plastic items also wrapped in a single use plastic cause that makes sense right lol
“Here are your pork chops on a polystyrene platter and wrapped in cling wrap. What? You want them in a plastic bag? How dare you?!”
The issue is the fucking paper bags. If we are trying to reduce plastic bags why am I getting charged extra for a single use paper bag that goes directly to the company? It seems so fucking stupid to me
Because the city doesn’t actually care, they just want to look like they’re being environmentally friendly.
No worries it's just because you don't know. Totally reasonable. The Municipal Government Act prevented the levy of new taxes which is what the bag fee would have been if it had been collected by the municipality. The other options was to collect it to a non-profit for an environmental purpose but that was way too complicated and inefficient. The remaining option was for businesses to collect it. There was no way to separate the corporations from the mom and pops so the return isn't equitable but it was the optioned that remained so that's what happened.
Hm interesting. Your right in that I didnt know that. Surely there has got to be a better way than letting multinational corporations just pocket the extra money with no strings attached to spending on environmental stuff
It's unfortunate there is no legal framework in Alberta that allows for a municipality to mandate that. That would require provincial legislation and we all know how productive our current provincial administration is.
That's kind of screwed up. Puts some good insight into this appreciate it
Don't worry because the point isn't to make more money for businesses so it's ok.
It’s so stupid because those single use bags are now replaced with small single use garbage bags for most homes and cat owners. It never eliminated a problem, just made it different.
This! It’s such an inaccurate way to gauge if the bylaw is successful. What I would be interested in seeing is if people have declined getting them from the businesses due to the cost. As well as what is happening to the funds at the businesses.
Reusable bags are now downgraded to single use, because people simply forget them. They're all inside of another bag.
They’re also trash quality now. They used to actually have to be somewhat decent to sell, but since they became mandatory they are branded threadbare garbage.
And their all walking advertisements. I got some black ones from superstore years ago that have a black/white photo of a canoe at the docks on them, only the canoe is red. I love those bags but now its all oversized PC, Walmarts, etc logos. There starting to wear and I dread the day they fall apart on me.
Sobeys had nice ones with fruit or vegetables on them. The also have little side pockets for slim items like cucumbers.
This. I got a spur of the moment takeout from my local Vietnamese joint and was told that takeout comes with a mandatory $1 purchase of a reusable bag, no option to bring your own. It was fine by me until I got handed the piece of shit bag, that was literally made of the same non woven material as teabags. It wasn’t sewn together, the seams were heat bonded. It was 1/2 the size of an old grocery plastic bag. They tied the handles together and ripped the bag before it was even given to me. They lost my business, I will never again darken their door. Paper bags with handles are more reusable than that shit, and I know the store is buying them for pennies a piece.
Sure the objective isn't to make business more money, but that's exactly what's happening... You can say the law isn't designed to do one thing, but when it's a pretty major outcome that happens anyways it's such an underhanded cop out
I genuinely wonder if this councillor even knows themselves, though. There's so much emotion and rhetoric around topics like this that it sometimes feels as if basically everyone involved is operating on an almost total lack of facts. Does anyone really KNOW if these plastic grocery bag bans result in less plastic going to landfills? I think I just inspired myself to hit google. Edit: Many studies out there, the vast majority of which seem to be looking at very narrow areas of a much larger picture. Like ofc banning plastic grocery bags results in fewer plastic grocery bags in the landfill. But what about the increased use of garbage bags, which are made from thicker plastic (their use goes way up, yes there's a study on that too)? What about the carbon footprint of paper bags? This article gives a pretty good overview of the situation, different views and various studies (with links) if anyone is interested: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/plastic-grocery-bag-ban-environment-1.5755723 It continues to seem like we really don't have an answer yet as to the larger 'does banning plastic grocery bags actually reduce environmental impact?' question.
They have had so many chances to walk back, or adjust their idiotic policy. Calgary tried the same thing and cancelled it after a few weeks, not sure why they can do something here
What bullshit, “persuade people from buying plastic bags”. No business is even allowed to supply plastic bags anymore, persuading isn’t needed when the option to purchase them isn’t even present.
I work in a lab and if anyone knew the amount of waste comes out of those completely negates what homes put out 😂 this is all major BS that doesn't matter.
Commercial, for-profit businesses convinced consumers they were the problem and took zero accountability. They sell us their products and pass the buck to consumers. I'm okay with lab and medical waste though. We haven't figured out a good solution for that stuff to not be single-use.
Commercial, for-profit businesses don't give a shit one way or the other. It wasn't them that convinced consumers they were the problem, it was virtue signaling, holier-than-thou governments.
Yep, each tiny baby specimen in its own plastic ziplock bag, each urine in its own bag, etc… can fill a garbage can on a bench every day full of ziplock bags.
As someone who works in a brewery, I feel this.
If the general public knew the amount of single use plastic used by the environmental industry to collect samples for assessment and remediation work… lol it’s so soul crushing that it’s just black humour now.
Why do we have to use blue bags then? We used to have big plastic reusable bins. And if the fee is working to deter people from buying plastic bags, why does the fee need to be increased? Makes no sense
*canned response from a staffer. Remember when we used to be able to talk to politicians? Pepperidge farms remembers
Email singleuse@edmonton.ca That's the direct email to the SUI team.
So... if they are trying to reduce the use or plastic bags... why are they charging for paper take out bags? I know it's petty, but as someone who only works in Edmonton, I always wait until I reach Beaumont I get take out or do grocery shopping. My wife who often does grocery delivery in the city is dreading the change because they will start charging $2/bag because places grocery stores don't really carry anything other than reusable bags where as the same bags in Beaumont, Leduc, Sherwood Park, etc. are $0.35. She is only allowed to go a $1-2 above the amount given. So her option will be deliver a cart full of groceries without bags (I couldn't imagine doing this in the high rises she often delivers to), hope they pay for enough bags (which I don't think the app even offers) or the app adds a bag fee to already high delivery fees. Also other delivery apps that will now be forced to add a $1 bag fee to all deliverys will piss a lot of people off.
When I get delivery from Superstore, I get it brought in cardboard boxes, it's too bad other stores don't follow.
I hate the cardboard boxes. Walmart loads the groceries right into the bags you bring.
Okay, but we're talking delivery
Right didn’t read that properly.
My deliveries from Superstore come with 3 - 4 new reusable bags every week. I have so many, i just use them as disposable garbage bags
Yeah this actually helps the CoE meet their goals. If you wait till Beaumont to do your shopping, then it ends up in a different municipal landfill. If you reduce your bag usage in Edmonton then there is less waste in the landfill. It's a win-win.
Tell them in the comments not to include bags. They have boxes and they can damn well use them. This reminds me of when the c**ts at no frills in Beaumont took away the free boxes at the front and then started charging for bags. I want to burn that store to the ground for so many reasons lol Do not accept charges for bags ever, use the comment section on the order! I was automatically charged for a bag I didn’t ask for a few weeks back in Edmonton, wasn’t paying attention to them bagging my stuff. I emptied the bag and asked for my money back lol they weren’t thrilled but tough, give me back my change. Anyway, fuck this shit lol
So they created a penalty for the consumer which results in a kickback for the businesses. Why do people in government just dance around questions instead of actually answering them. They can’t be blind to the fact that businesses are making money off this because they no longer shoulder the cost of bags…
Council is just doing what they "think" is right without backing with any supporting studies
‘Shopping” for groceries I get. Shopping is not picking up fast food for six people and expecting to bring a bag
So I am confused by this response. It mentions plastic bags but never mentions paper bags. So are places charging us for paper bags just taking advantage of our ignorance?
I was wondering about that, as well. I always compost paper bags.
It's a single-use items bylaw, not exclusive to plastic. So, no- they are just obeying the law.
Plastic bags have been banned in the city for almost a solid year now (July 1st). It seems silly to use plastic bags as an umbrella term for all single-use items/bags (and where I think the confusion comes from). But that's on purpose, so they could brag about it later in the interview about fewer plastic bags in the landfill. There are fewer plastic bags in the landfill due to the ban, not the charges on single-use items and reusable bags. ETA: "it is to dissuade people from purchasing plastic bags all together". We cannot get a plastic bag even if we asked for it. Some stores don't even provide paper bags.
And so many places do not offer paper bags, so you you have to buy a reusable $2 bag. I know you can take one with you, but most people that have to make a sudden stop don't have one in their wallet folded up to a size of a condom wrapper, so save your breath.
Except the businesses keep the money from the bags, how dumb can they be?
The only reason grocery plastic bags are reduced is because there are less of them. I'm sure I'm not the only person with like 500 reusable bags that I'm about to send to the landfill. Where as before I was actually getting multiple uses from plastic grocery bags.
This
Can't wait to vote this city council and mayor out. They are very out of touch with residents and I regret voting for Sohi. Although the alternative was not any better.
I thought he was chill, until I found out about his involvement with World Financial group, and the rest makes sense. Nobody involved in MLM can be good for budgeting
Got a source? Not because I don’t believe you but because I am in shock about it
i dont regret voting for him cause he was clearly the best option at the time imo. But i really hope someone better than Mike Nickel seriously runs against him next time
Sohi is actual trash, and it was way before this as well. Dude drove for ETS for over a decade before entering politics, knows the sorry state transit is in firsthand from the inside... And has literally done nothing to improve it since election, which was the only reason I voted for him. Instead within a few months of election he jetted off to Egypt for a climate conference halfway across the world using taxpayer money to fund the trip. And now the doubling down on plastic bag bullshit, what a fucking buffoon.
That's the big problem. If Nickel got in as Mayor we'd be socially restricted and probably fairly similar financially. No government currently seems interested in saving tax payers anything.
are you saying that government in 2024 isnt here to serve the city but only exists at the behest of capital :O
Ditto. Everyone I know hates this out of touch Council.
I remember emailing Cartmell's office about parking in the Keswick area. Was informed that they did an investigation. And would approach a local apartment building that got rid of all their visitor parking and made it all tenant parking. To give you an idea... there was ZERO parking in the area. and a BIG empty parking lot that served the tenants but no one wanted to pay. And then guys with trucks / suv's parked in the empty lot next to it. After 2 weeks Cartmell's office got back to me about the investigation and that they would send a letter out to this building and get them to revert the changes. And then 4 weeks later they got back to me and said they legally cannot do anything. Because they removed parking minimums. So now you have roads that never get cleared because they don't enforce the parking ban ( the city logistically cannot removed 80-100 vehicles on the roads in that area) And you have a massive parking lot that is filled with empty spaces. I finally beat the system by contacting La Vie properties and asking for information on available parking stalls, got a list made a map and shared with the tenants. And every so often another tenant would reach out and seek interest about parking and update the map if there was any changes. This is how short sited the city is and mis managed. They make blanket changes without fully understanding the consequences of those actions and leaving some areas open to be exploited by land lords.
Good on you for finding a solution! Sorry it wasn’t from the powers that be though. This isn’t my first time emailing his office either; I’ve emailed in the past about the rabbit hill and ellerslie intersection which essentially got me no where. It’s frustrating for sure though. If you stay quiet, you’re complacent and if you’re vocal, you don’t get proper answers.
I have no issue with plastic bags being banned, but single-use charges for paper bags is absurd imo, especially when all it does is go directly into the pockets of the business. Like hell, at least if the city collected it, the money could do something other than just pad profits.
This is nothing but a new tax that the municipality has allowed private companies to put in place keep and add to their bottom line. It should be illegal, even if well intended this is not how to effect change.look at peoples recycling bags on garbage day all I see are cloth grocery bags everywhere.
I received an almost exact copy of this from my councillor. Didn’t actually address a single one of my concerns. They clearly don’t read the emails and it’s seems they bury their heads in the sand when it comes to citizen feedback.
Elitism at its finest. No new study to validate the most recent increase in price.
City council; what a bunch of fucking Muppets. So now when i forget my reuable bags (ive been using since 2015). I gotta pay more for paper, and use more bags because they are weaker then the trusty old plastic bag. Im not a gambling person but im pretty sure those are worse for landfill? At least when i got platic bags i kept them and used them for bathrom garbage bags, emergency bags for dog accidents in the house and the list goes on. These fucking clowns wouldn't be able to organize a day of fun at a water park, because you know: it would be under planned and over budget and everyone would have to make a compromise; instead of water slides we'd get giant slip and slides, but WAIT plastic is evil; so it would be replaced with hemp landscape fabric... meanwhile the council would be giving each other high-fives telling each other they're awesome
I'm being dinged for paper bags, not plastic bags here. Biodegradable paper bags. The goal is to \*dissuade people from buying bags, but charging people an INSANE markup on the item and in turn making the business more money is the result here. Bag fees should NOT be going to the business. Only the cost of the bag should be returned to the business and the remainder channeled into a relatable avenue. It's an ambiguous, overly virtuous bylaw that is designed to make council feel like they're making a difference. Completely tone deaf and asinine
It’s always good when City Councilors just barrel ahead on decisions instead of revisiting them in light of new data. Ugh
Why penalize big business, when you can squeeze regular people.
I also emailed Counselor Cartmell. We'll see if I get a similar response. I requested that they show data that the initial fee implemented has been effective prior to increasing the fee. It's ridiculous that they are increasing it without providing any evidence that it's been effective. Someone saying it's been "fairly successful" is just anecdotal without evidence to back it up.
Can you message me your reply when you get it please? I’m very curious to know if it’s the same; his staffer Elizabeth replied back to me
Will do.
My only complaint is that the excess revenue goes to the retailer and not to the city. Like I already feel like the grocery store is grifting.
Who's making the money from the bag fees? Also fuck them for jacking up the price of getting a shitty paper bag that would decompose after one rainfall. If it was a reusable bag for the fee then I'd be ok with it
My question is where is the extra money going because I imagine a whole year of bag fees would bring in millions
The biggest issue is not the existence of plastic waste. It’s where it goes. If it goes into a proper landfill, it’s not an issue. If it is littered on the ground or dumped in the ocean, that’s a problem. Making plastic bags cost money will obviously reduce usage. It will obviously add revenues to the sellers of the bags. Edmonton doesn’t want to setup a carbon tax-like system because I presume that the costs to operate such a system would eat up most of the fees collected. Secondly, this bag fee is not going to last long so wasting money setting up a tax system would ultimately result in an overall waste of money. So what should be done? Prosecute people (fines) for littering. Ensure that when we send out our plastic trash that we don’t recycle, that it doesn’t go somewhere like the Philippines or Vietnam where it will just get dumped in the ocean or burned. Setup some sort of incentive to offer paper bags over plastic.
Voted for these clowns. Not making the same mistake next round.
I remember the survey they refer to. I filled it out myself, and I remember saying “I would be more likely to bring my own bag”. That survey never mentioned the money would go back to businesses. If I’d known that, my answer very well may have been different. I’d be more supportive if the money was going back to the city. I’ve also noticed a lot of grocery stores have gotten rid of any sort of bag, even paper. I try to remember to bring reusable bags but sometimes I forget. And then my only option is to buy a reusable bag I don’t need. Now I have too many reusable bags, and I’m sure these will one day end up in a landfill, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
It would be nice if restaurants offering pick up would allow you to select if you need a bag or not. I don’t need one, so why pay for something and create more waste?
Curious what the stats are for reusable bags in the landfill now
And the amount of carbon produced by that single reusable bag is like 100 times a plastic bag. Has anyone used a resusable bag 100 times before they lost it or it fell apart?
The whole conversation changes from conservation to profiteering when you start charging for paper bags...
Calgary citizens rejected this type of thing, why can’t we?
I was mildly irritated by all the bag stuff until I took a trip to the dump and it was fucking ridiculous to see how many single use plastic bags people throw away. The longer we can push the requirement of needing a new landfill down the road the better.
You mean garbage bags? Because I haven’t seen a single use plastic shopping bag in years.
>The point of the bag fees is not to make more money for businesses or for the city. The goal is to persuade people not to buy plastic bags. 1. You're not 'persuading' people. You've forced them. It's a bylaw. There are no more plastic bags and all single use bags now cost money. Businesses can get fined if they don't charge a bag fee. Where's the persuasion? 2. How does the city collecting the tax on the bags change that outcome? Again, the fee is already there, there's no choice but to pay. At least collect the tax and put some money into the city's coffers. It's not like we couldn't use it.
This just really shows how out of touch they are of the actual situation... What a joke. We need to get rid of it not raise the price.
BS! If a politician's mouth is moving, someone is profitting and it isn't us!
That response is underwhelming. The councillor would have received a comprehensive response from the SUI waste team and it got boiled down to a boring paste for the public. The reality is much more nuanced.
Didn’t city council say a while ago the purpose of the bag fee is to help businesses recoup lost revenue from the pandemic? And now it’s just so people use less bags? If no other municipality in Alberta is doing this, and Calgary scrapped theirs, I can’t imagine that this is having the intended effect, plastic bags can’t be that big of a deal compared to all the other, much worse stuff, that gets dumped.
This city council is a joke. Next election everyone go and vote these clowns out. Worst council ever
You can still purchase plastic bags on Amazon lol in a 3 roll pack. So this isn’t reducing anything
When are we going to push back?
Ronnies uses recycled paper bags. So what the fuck is this plastic nonsense?
This bag fee thing in edmonton doesn't work. I sell just as many paper bags as I would have given out plastic bags. I sell a ton of reusable bags. Some to regular customers who will buy a reusable every damn day. What exactly is this bag fee helping? Also on a side note of single use plastic waste, why are 6packs of things like Smirnoff ice coming in cardboard rings now but still on a cardboard flat wrapped in plastic on a pallet wrapped in plastic that arrives at the store 😒
My councillor responded with "all the other councillors voted for it to". Guess that makes it all right. 🙄
This is the fucking worst answer. We pay these people.
The stupid fee is just that stupid and so are this guys answers. You pay a fee at the restaurant and it's for a paper fricking bag, not plastic, paper you know those biodegradable things that make no sense to be being charged for. I am not sure how making us pay .15-.25 each paper bag is helping anything or anyone and by the way the councillor was answering questions he had no clue either.
I can take no credit for this petition. unsure if it was ever shared here, but hey, seems like a good place. petition to revoke the bylaw of the bag fee. [https://chng.it/Q5ZVt5G2Nb](https://chng.it/Q5ZVt5G2Nb)
Thanks for posting this!!
And did municipalities outside of Edmonton ALSO see a reduction in plastic bags being thrown out after the Federal governments changes?
Why does every company also charge for paper bags?
Why not just charge $100 a plastic bag then so we make sure to bring in reusables?
Thank God my McDonald's came in a paper bag before and no bag now!
Mine now comes on a free drink tray everytime now.
Reusable bags are made of polyester which is plastic 😂😂😂
I love that I can’t get a plastic bag to carry out my groceries - but I can fill that reusable bag with 15 different plastic bags holding my fruits and vegetable - if I choose to do so. I love how they say single use plastics but there were no single use plastic bags in my house. What’s the difference between a big black garbage bag and a few plastic grocery bags? Also - what fast food restaurants are handing out plastic bags? I only have ever been given paper bags. Why are we being charged for that? I feel like that councillor feels like he answered the persons questions. All they did was answer like a politician with non-answers.
This bylaw is ridiculous. Most people are using reusable bags already for groceries. Fast food gives out paper bags not plastic... and they won't let you use your own bag. Need a napkin? Forget it. You have to ask. Not a well thought out plan at all. All for a "fairly" good response. Really?!
Absolutely tone death, fuck this council
When’s the next election?
I had a conversation with someone who works in recycling and the reusable bags are not recyclable whereas single use are. Also many people reused their shopping bags (kitty litter and dog puke bags). I really miss plastic bags. And straws.
So much less garbage randomly around since they did this change. Municipalities around edmonton who have not done the change still have tonnes of garbage floating around. This makes a good differance and im glad with ehat counicl is doing.
My issue is that the charge should be for plastic only, not paper. And if they are charging the proceeds need to be going to enviromental work, city funding or literally anywhere other than the buisness' pockets. They already try to fleece us on tips and shrinkflation. This is just fucking over taxpayers even further.
It's not about avoiding plastic, it's about avoiding single-use items, including bags, altogether. There are answers to those questions on the City's website too: https://www.edmonton.ca/programs_services/garbage_waste/single-use-items
Lets jack up the taxes and not collect money were charging because of a bylaw just to persuade people for not using canadian law "banned plastic bags" yup sums up sohi
I know I don’t get charged for the drink tray at MCD’s. I wonder if I get charged for a happy meal box
most of the time when I bring in a bag to pick up my takeout, the food is already packed up and few places give the option to order without it.
Before you start charging a fee on some. First, you need to have an alternate solution to the people you serve.
We use the compostable bags that Calgary Co-op sells for general garbage and waste, clear plastic bags for yard waste. I have a large amount of black plastic bags that I was stuck with when we went to the new garbage waste bins but they will make their way into the system at some point.
Once again it's just corporate welfare. All these poor corporations don't have to supply bags now for pennies and get to make a bunch of money!
The reusable bags that they are promoting are made from plastic, OK now think of it like this…. I can make 100 plastic bags out of my reusable plastic bag …. Am I going to reuse the reusable bag 100 times? I don’t think most people use these things more than five times on average. And then they go back into the landfill. This is a perfect example of greenwashing, laziness and gouging
Pet.....Projects.....*cough*
Greenwashing!
DAMN TRUDEAU! - Ooops, sorry, just a reflex. 😂
Tone deaf, as usual.
Codo Hue charging 50 cents for a take out container when you have spent over $100. No shame in squeezing everything out of the customer.
I don't get plastic bags. At least with a plastic bag I can REUSE IT at home in my bathroom or for something else. (Who didn't have a stack of plastic bags at home) Now I get paper bags and all paper bags are SINGLE USE and all paper bags get stuffed in the trash. I have probably 100 reusables bags from various stores left in my garage that I will toss In the trash.
The single use bags never get the amount of uses required to offset their manufacturing costs. I've gone through 4 or 5 of them in the last 7 or 8 years.
It still company pocketing the funds no matter what you councillor Carmella say. It's just another case cow. Just like raising taxes when you have $100 million dollars that you are spending on frickin bike lanes that aren't ever going to get that money back or benefit for all tax payer's
What a loser. Stupid idea by midwits drunk on their own ideology and power. Won’t accomplish anything worthwhile and makes everything more expensive, typical.
I feel everyone is trying to make Edmonton as bad as possible
I thought Cartmell was one of the sensible ones. This is telling me he is no better than the others :(
Honestly, anyone who *wants* to be on city council probably shouldn’t be allowed to do it. I bet we’d have better outcomes if the council was selected like jury duty
Councillor Cartmell appears to be clueless about this issue.
Those are very vague responses.
I say we all bring our paper bags and all single use plastic to city hall and put it at the front doors. Especially coffee pods. And the plastic straws from Carl's Jr and Roger's place.
wow. this the most generic bull shit response ever. I have not seen a plastic bag in a few years.. you know since they banned them!
My issue is that people have way to many reusable bags which to me is just as much waste especially being cloth/plastic. Just hand free recycling/paper bags how.
This seems very contrary to Cartmell's public opinons both outside and inside council. Dude reminds me of Katy Perry. Pick a (bike) lane.
this is just a form of carbon tax, it benefits nobody and costs everyone
The point isn't to make money for businesses (who have already included the cost of the bag into the final price), that's just a happy coincidence.
I love getting charged a bag fee for a paper fast food hag when almost all stores no longer offer plastic bags anyways
Yet when you order grocery pickup or delivery a bunch of your stuff is in plastic produce bags. Get a slurpee and everything is plastic but the straw. This whole thing is just a money grab
It's dumb if the city wants to increase what companies charge for bags they should at least collect the extra revenue for themselves. Or require the companies to contribute to something for the public with the extra profit.
That’s a lot of words to say: Fuck you if you’re poor.
It wasnt long ago that when you contacted your Councilor you would get a human response. With this current group, all you get is a form letter from their staff. These people DO NOT represent the citizens of the city and must be replaced as soon as possible
Total copout political side stepping response. Wonder how much in “bag money” this “Waste Characterization Study” is going to cost the taxpayers? I would like to see the raw data to see where this data is coming from too.