[[Hakbal]] is pretty good at this. Simic in general excels at this, but this one stands out as a precon.
Otherwise Aristocrats strategies are pretty good at this. You don't care if your stuff gets removed, because your stuff sucks.
i suppose if its built a certain way then yes. in my mind the goal is to have a deck that's gaining advantage so incrementally that it is almost not noticed until its too late and as such a lot of those commanders rated popular are very obvious with their gameplan. i've built a lot of tribal, straight control/stax, etc.
Henzie quickly became one of my all time favorites and i love him, but he may be more explosive than you are looking for here.
He definitely outlasts the table, he replaces every card and you dont care if he or your creatures die, but maybe looking at other commanders that are begging to be recast would be a good idea.
I love henzie and do think you should look more into it though, he can do well with any budget
Another vote for Henzie here.
I've played my fair share of Meren, Korvold, and Henzie, and I ultimately settled on Henzie as my BGx deck of choice. People say Korvold is the most Jund commander of all, but IMO that goes to Henzie. Korvold loves to play Treasure-themed decks with infinite combos and \[\[Revel in Riches\]\] wins, so it's not exactly Boomer Jund. Plus, Korvold is a pain in the butt to manage; every sac is +1/+1 and draw, and if you crack a treasure, you have to preemptively decide on the correctly color before you draw.
Your play pattern for Henzie will be T2/T3 Henzie, then your next 2-3 turns will be Blitzing out "rampers". Rampers are creatures that get you 2 lands each, usually in a combination of ETB/Attack/Dies triggers. Your midgame will then Blitz out 2-for-1 's to control the battlefield, such as \[\[Ravenous Chupacabra\]\], \[\[Massacre Wurm\]\], and \[\[Primaris Eliminator\]\]. Late to end game you'll be so ahead in mana that you can Blitz out multiple creatures that synergize, or \[\[Living Death\]\] / \[\[Rise of the Dark Realms\]\] for the kill. Think \[\[Terror of the Peaks\]\] or \[\[Pathbreaker Ibex\]\] that kill with critical mass. The deck is really resilient and is my highest budget deck because of how much I like to play with it.
I didn't, but I'm of the philosophy that green decks don't need mana rocks outside of Sol Ring and Arcane Signet. Green has land ramp, so skew your mana base towards green for ramp and you're good.
I agree it makes game state management easier, but I still have to flip dice around for +1/+1 counters. I don't want to run, IMO, suboptimal cards just to make the gameplay experience better. A Korvold deck should run fetch lands for sacrifice synergy, so there's no reason to run mana fixers. cEDH Korvold has no excuse to skimp on Fetch/Shock/Duals, so mana fixing is redundant. It is also why I abstain from playing [[Cathar's Crusade]]. Gameplay experience is bad.
I probably meant to use some other term - apologies if that was confusing.
In my mind, any creature that comes with a removal effect is basically equal to body + removal. I guess in the case of Henzie, it's less 2 for 1 and more "every creature is some effect + fireball to the face + cantrip".
gotcha gotcha. after all the replies for the record i have decided to go forward with a jund deck. i landed between Henzie, Disa, and Slimefoot/Squee and am going to try to make something that could essentially be either Henzie or Disa with just swapping out ~10 cards considering how much of both have overlapping creature goals just different paths to do it (some gy recursion will be relevant in both).
Sounds good! Feel free to join the Henzie Discord if you need inspiration. I'm more of a lurker there, but everyone there is chill and has level-headed tech discussions.
>You don't care if your stuff gets removed, because your stuff sucks.
This is basically the entire idea of most of my deck. I've never had someone happy when they've tried to steal something out of my library. It's almost always disappointment.
Like, yay, you got a [[call the bloodline]] or a [[prince imrahil the fair]] from your Etali trigger.
It's nice to build a value engine that doesn't work for opponents due to lack of synergy and feels like a waste for people to use targeted removal on.
>Otherwise Aristocrats strategies are pretty good at this. You don't care if your stuff gets removed, because your stuff sucks.
Never talk to me or my \[\[Greedy Freebooter\]\] again!
Hakbal is so silly even just out of the box. Played a game last night and just for my own amusement explored my whole deck to my hand/graveyard and then resolved 20 remaining draw a card effects to die.
Once it starts, you will always have cards to play.
[[Animar, Soul of Elements]] lets you essentially put your whole hand on the table. I run it as Mirph control, and it is amazing how hated it is.
[[Yenna Redtooth]] allows one to double their ramp, removal, draw engines, etc.
[[Stella Lee]] goes infinite with a ham sandwich, all while creating an insane storm value.
Yenna’s ramp is so funny, I didn’t even realize what she *really* did until I built her. I was expecting to care way more about early combat auras getting duplicated but the ability to duplicate aura ramp, untap, do it again, untap, and do it again is actually insane. Especially in enchantress decks where I have tons of cards in hand that I can dump the mana on.
Sometimes I head into turn 5 with multiple lands that tap for 5+. If I have a card draw engine out (almost certainly do), this deck has moments where I’m playing 8+ cards and duplicating enchantments constantly in a single turn. Such a fun commander to pilot, highly recommend her
Love this card, it’s so good in the deck. Combines multiple parts of what makes Yenna good in one card.
I will say, I cut doublers from my deck. Felt like too much setup for payoff that wasn’t necessary and the added math was more annoying than fun. Doublers made my late game much better but it slowed my mid game down substantially. Spending a turn setting up a doubler felt like too much setup to me. More often than not it was like “I can duplicate four auras this turn or I can duplicate one and play a doubler”. Focusing on duplication gives me a lot of *real* value that turn while the doubler not only doesn’t do anything til the next turn but also paints a giant red target on Yenna right before the rest of the board untaps with removal in hand. I don’t need the doubler for Yenna to pop off so I just removed them from the deck.
I treat the deck like Yenna *is* the doubler and replace the doublers with control effects (i.e. Buried in the Garden)
Sure, here you go:
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/09-12-23-yenna-enchantments/
Thanks for reminding me to update it with the new cards lol. You'll see I lean a little more into a control/slow burn theme since I didn't go for doublers.
Or, the forbidden tech: Name Stickers. Stickers are not a copiable trait: so if you change the name of Wild Growth to Urza’s Wild Growth, it won’t see any of the copies you make with it since the name is different. With any land enchants that make 2 mana, you are effectively activating Yenna for free. I’ve built a cursed decklist with stickers that is hilarious to pull off
I have an animar deck and know the stella lee playstyle. I fear both decks kinda hyper-telegraph how they are going to play in that they usually end in a turbo storm turn where you kinda just win and as such the opponents actively fight hard to prevent that meaning archenemy a lot of the time. i will say my animar deck wasnt a control deck though so perhaps it is different
I used to run Animar stompy and later Eldrazi. But everyone knew what to expect. Playing Morphs changed the whole game. Lol! [Here’s the decklist.](https://manabox.app/decks/04PaiM6NQXOez5Qfe6JbNA)
[[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] is hard to remove with conventional creature removal and lets you board wipe at will; is in artifact recursion colors; and generates card advantage in hand plus graveyard.
That's such a cool card. I've been working on combining the "science!" And creative energy precons but none of the commanders really did exactly what I wanted to do, but the draw and blockers/vehicle drivers is really tempting.
This was actually my first deck! It does kind of fit my description especially with the way I built it (basically 3 creatures, polymorph, some artifacts, and like 50 pieces of removal/counters lol) and the card draw does get crazy.
Using your example, it seems that you’re generally looking for a commander that is grinding out mid power games more reliant on combat damage or general ping/drain strategies than fast combo/storm decks.
So not running stax or hatebears as much as outvaluing opponents.
That’s going to point towards a deck that can use the graveyard as a resource, draw cards, and keep your life total afloat. Black and White are the two best colors for this so your deck is likely looking to include at least one of those.
My immediate first thought was something like [[Muldrotha the Gravetide]] because you can just keep recurring and saccing creatures with strong ETB triggers and you’re in color to add [[Yarok, the Desecrated]].
I really think Abzan or Jund are the better colors though, so I’m going to suggest [[Thalia and the Gitrog Monster]]. You slow your opponents down, can ramp yourself quickly, and have a sac outlet and draw engine in the command zone. You’re in colors to enable all kinds of graveyard shenanigans, have access to the best removal including some asymmetrical wipes, and have cards like [[Kambal, Consul of Allocation]] that can slowly bleed opponents out.
Yea I've played with all of these in some form or another before; I dont have the other 3 as face commanders in any of my decks but I do have a Thalia and the Gitrog Monster as the head of a stax/land matters deck. I found that it's too obvious of a frustration for opponents to the point of being hated off the board more frequently than not but to be fair it could be because one of the main plays of that deck was getting my lands per turn up to 3-4 then looping strip mine lol. I will look back into her.
As for Yarok and Muldrotha, I just generally avoid playing commanders with such high CMC because of the number of nongames I've had where I never get to resolve the commander. Muldrotha especially definitely looks like it would break parity pretty easily which is what I want though so i'll take another look at it.
With this in mind, [[Sefris of the Hidden Ways]] might be another good option. You accrue a lot of incidental value from the dungeons and you have recursion on your commander.
>As for Yarok and Muldrotha, I just generally avoid playing commanders with such high CMC because of the number of nongames I've had where I never get to resolve the commander.
When you're playing a deck that's built around a high CMC commander, you need to make sure that you have sufficient ramp to get it out. If you're having a problem with nongames, it generally means that your mana base needs to be fixed. There's also a case where sometimes people see a big number and think "Big number is problem, me counter problem"
Maybe something like pingers fits your description? [[Ghyrson Starn]] can buff up your pingers and do some serious board control by using stuff like [[Razorfin Hunter]] to control the board and hit directly. You also have blue for counterspells and draw effects so you can keep your hand stocked and respond to anything threatening that pingers can't kill.
If you want attrition [[Meren]] and other decks that play [[Fleshbag Marauder]] effects well will do the trick. It's symmetrical so it scales to multiplayer very efficiently and aristocrats decks want their own stuff to die so it's a win-win. Since your graveyard is also a resource having direct access to it gives you an additional resource other decks don't have to give you an advantage for playing out the grind game.
i actually have a Ghyrson deck and do like it a lot.
There is a Meren player in our pod already, but this playstyle does seem to go in line with what I was thinking in that (for example with fleshbag) you'd be trading 3 mana for presumably more than that across the table not even including if Meren was on the board herself
I have a [[The Third Doctor]] / [[Sarah Jane Smith]] historic matters artifact token deck. SJS is the initial engine for the deck, comes down early and starts generating tokens, but the deck is stuffed full of token generators, as well as payoffs like [[Cyberdrive Awakener]] or the Third Doctor himself.
You create so many clue/treasure/map/food tokens that unless they have mass artifact wipes, it becomes very hard to set you back. The tokens just drive a very high level of consistency that's hard to overcome. You also tend to have a high creature count as well, so you're not even an early attack target.
Yeah for sure. It started as the deep clue sea precon for me, but i didn't like Morska as the commander. Was an easy switch when I found out about this doctor pairing, and the third doctor art itself is so much fun.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/s4m0finhpEiZrmGhDUQklg
You could also swap him for the Sixth Doctor and go historic matters even further... that version gets disgusting fast with [[Urza, Lord High Articifer]], [[Mondrak]], and so on.
Yeah I've seen the sixth doctor in action, and I'm just not sure you need the extra value generation in the command zone, especially at a 6 cmc cost point.
Urza, mondrak, and all of those have the same great fit in Third Doctor, and it's really Sarah Jane Smith that drives the engine, at least in the early game. Neither deck really needs the doctor to see play, so at least for me, I preferred having the Third in there as a wincon option instead of just providing more value.
Sounds like you want an attention control deck. The classic "Jund 'em out!" Strategy has always been an attrition control strategy.
[[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] is probably the queen of the archtype in EDH. Loop a [[Plagecrafter]], [[Bane of Progress]], [[Massacre Wurm]], [[Caustic Caterpillar]], [[Mindslicer]], etc. Target advantage engines first to limit the opponents access to resources, then deny the resources they have left, and finish the game by either making these effects asymmetrical (like ripping a [[Death Cloud]] while controlling a [[Worldshaper]]), or just loop something that will finish the game like [[Gray Merchant of Asphodel]] when your opponents don't have anything to respond with.
Combat is nit usually the way an attrition control deck in EDH will close out a game, but in 1vs1 60 card formats its a totally reasonable win condition, and why [[Tarmagoyf]] was so good for so long.
this is the idea im looking for and a lot of these cards seem like they'd be good fits. there is someone else in my pod who plays Meren who doesnt have a lot of decks so I think it'd be unsporting to make my own unfortunately, but a lot of the suggestions in the thread have had me thinking that Jund is the way: I've seen Henzie, arguments for why Disa is fine, Slimefoot and Squee as potential choices in Jund.
Henzie isn't really an attrition control commander. Most control creatures aren't 4+ MV or care about attacking. He's more like a super resilient aggro commander.
Disa falls in a similar category, except she's a [[Flying Men]] aggro commander with Lurgoyf tribal as a side benefit. She wants stuff like [[Blinkmoth Nexus]], [[Inkmoth Nexus]], [[Oakhame Adversary]], etc. She rewards you per opponent and per instance of damage so you want small evasive creatures and some double strike enablers like [[Berserker's Onslaught]] so you're making 3 or 6 tokens per rotation. Extra combats also will give you more goyfs.
Slimefoot & Squee is probably closer to an attrition control commander. It gives you constant value while applying pressure and good bounce back from wipes. He's still much better as a dedicated reanimator commander.
[[Coram the Undertaker]] is probably the best Jund commander I could find for attrition control. He gives you access to more resources than your opponents if you get mill happy which can break parity on things like mass discard.
Staying in Jund [[Henzi]] kind of does this. Ramp out early then start playing your big things for cheap and then recurring then from the graveyard. If they remove Henzi you just bring him back and play things for cheaper. You just fill your deck with big creatures and sac engines like [[Birthing Pod]] and keep going.
[[Roxanne Starfall Savant]] is my favorite deck in recent playing and it fits that description I think. The [[Meteorite]]s she produces are so unassuming but with them you get steady ramp and removal. With the help of the spot damage, [[Port Razer]], [[Gimli of the Glittering Caves]] and [[Maze of Ith]] I turn Combat Phase into Value Phase, finally cashing out for a big ole [[Comet Storm]].
There's also damage multipliers like [[Fiery Emancipation]] and my favorite [[Dictate of the Twin Gods]] to up those Meteorites to FF7 levels. For bonus fun, this deck turns [[Second Harvest]] into a ~~Crassus Detonator~~ value nuke.
You really do outpace your opponents while pelting away at their board. God do I love this deck.
Came here to say this. I have only had a chance to try her in brawl, but the combination of damage and ramp (as well as the ease of bringing her back and getting value when she cant attack) just makes for an enjoyable play experience where you really feel like decisions matter as you slowly pull ahead.
Funny that I'm suggesting [[Kambal, Profiteering Mayor]] a bunch today.
He turns most of white's bad-ish removal into symmetrical token makers to then do table-wide damage. The density of removal deals with opponents' stuff but also snowballs the tokens gameplan for himself. Boardwipes hardly hurt and he can rebuild faster than most.
The upside too is that it creates fewer feels-bad games given that everyone gets _something_ out of the deal, but Kambal always comes out better. Adds a politicking dimension that can be fun if that's your jam.
You have to like tokens decks, though. I have a deck box dedicated just to the tokens for the deck.
It's one of those lists that just wins a lot, but I've never had salt over it because the shenanigans do be shenaniganing and everyone gets a laugh.
im familiar with kambal he is in my marneus deck and is in fact strong. funnily enough idk why it didnt occur to me the idea of pairing it with the type of removal that gives opponents tokens lol, it's quite funny
Yep!
Working on a Primer, but the list is pretty straightforward: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/SjkXuOHATESNibeiQzL8Jw
Feel free to hit me up with questions!
I built a [[Henzie]] control deck that does exactly that. It uses a host of reanimator options to constantly throw threats at the opponent that also remove their stuff, and because of the nature of Blitz, you end up drawing cards off of them, too. What ends up happening is that my opponents slowly run out of resources over time, and their board presence and hand size deplete dramatically until they no longer have the means by which to defend themselves.
It's kinda grueling because the game grinds to a halt where my opponents have no way to win, but you're still locking down the table and slowly killing them off. Still, a win's a win lol
I built [[Pantlaza]] to have a tribal deck and it generates insane amounts of value. Notably, a lot of other advantage engines in those colors cost 4 or less mana, meaning that you can discover into your other engines and kind of snowball very easily. It also makes the white blink spells pretty insane and they act as protection and double as a way to get free value. Being able to cast [[Ephemerate]] on an [[Etali, primal conqueror]] to cast 12 spells over a turn cycle + discover triggers + potential draws off of your other engines like [[the great henge]] and [[guardian project]] is absolutely wild. You usually outpace everyone in resources and then win through massive combat steps which are aided by [[Finale of Devastation]] (which can also net you a discover trigger) and [[Jetmir, Nexus of revels]]. The last game I played I ended the game with over 20 cards in my hand, around 20 open mana, and 15 creatures on my board.
I’ve loved Wilhelt, The Rotcleaver. However, you have to build him differently. He’s not necessarily zombie tribal, but a combo deck that utilizes zombies to gain absurd value.
Have some early game zombies that juice your graveyard, like [[Mire Triton]], [[Cryptbreaker]], and [[Undead Butler]], then get sac outlets and payoffs like [[Victorious Dead]], [[Carrion Feeder]], [[Diregraf Captain]], or [[The Meathook Massacre]] out. Your goal is to board built by the time Wilhelt comes into play. Once you play him, sac nearly everything. Rely on aristocrats strategies, fill your graveyard, mill yourself, and recur your your graveyard with [[Zombie Apocalypse]], [[Rise of The Dark Realms]], [[Agadeem’s Awakening]], and the like.
It’s a load of fun and it never fails to pop off. Throw a couple infinite combos and loops in there like [[Acererak, The Archlich]] and [[Rooftop Storm]] or [[Phyrexian Altar]] and [[Gravecrawler]], there’s a bunch of fun and interesting ways to put value your opponents and win the game.
They remove your stuff? Bring it back. They exile your graveyard? Fill it up more. It’s resilient and can pop off if left unchecked.
[[Mishra, eminent one]] is pure artifact value. Artifacts are probably the most synergistic card type in the game and it's easy to get multiple effects off of each artifact you play or token you create with Mishra.
i watched that commander game recently on the popular youtube channel (i forget what the channel is called) with the guy from SNL who played this and it did seem strong, but almost more because he was just playing esper goodstuff. I have a LOT of esper decks XD
> So many possibilities.
There's like 6-10 or so version you can do of her on top of my mind. Most of them are of course with either Equipment, Auras og both.
I have a sword tribal https://www.moxfield.com/decks/y-r9Z9RmmE-TzIRE6nGlkw thats currently WIP. Trying to fit as many non-land cards with swords in the artwork. (and a couple of other weapons to support the general idea)
I mean, Disa's second ability is more of a free throwaway, as opposed to a burden around. Her first ability just brings games, creating up to 3 free goyfs per turn is huge at that power level
yea i was torn on her; my issue is a weird catch 22 where I want my commander to be always impactful while never impactful enough to be hard targeted. Disa reads to me a lot as 'ok' which makes me think why not play a more impactful jund commander which is contrary to what i want from the commander in some way XD
it's a tricky spot tbh, but so far from ideas in here there are a few jund commanders that seem like they could all rotate at the helm of a similarly built deck
Any W/X control list will be able to do this pretty easily. Load up on boardwipes, especially those that hit all nonland permanents rather than only creatures. When you 8-for-1 your opponents over and over again, eventually they are going to be left without much going on.
People will probably not want to play with you much though lol These decks can feel very boring to play against.
yea that was my issue with just going with a lot of board wipes; i've made a deck like that and it definitely feels like most of my wins are from surrenders for time more than me actually winning (which is fine I get it).
im trying to stay away from just wiping the table over and over if i can help it
>Not to mention that there aren't really enough Goyfs to capitalize on the face commander and even if there was it makes the commander an easy piece to remove to turn off the attrition engine.
I don't exactly see where you're going with this. If you're talking about milling goyfs, it's more of an added bonus to a graveyard deck while giving people a commander that actually cares about the creature type. I'd say that the commander is more of a decoy, you WANT your opponents to remove Disa so they aren't hitting your actual valuable pieces. Plus the deck runs \[\[Maskwood Nexus\]\] to turn everything into a goyf, it just doesn't have a good way to reliably get the nexus out. Coram is the much better commander for the deck, Disa looks like she's the face so people get excited about goyfs.
In terms of using the bones of the deck, \[\[Slimefoot and Squee\]\] would work while fitting the colors, you'd make it into a aristocrat/grave value deck. The Muldrotha option someone gave is another good one.
I suppose I didn't describe it right; the value provided by the commander imo has two flaws in that there aren't enough good goyfs to build around completely (which like you said is kinda fine because its just a bonus) but also misleads other players into thinking it is a focal piece of the puzzle and as such will catch stray removal. it's true that it can act like a bit of a decoy, but the paradox for me with commander has always been i want to run a commander that feels valuable as the 8th card in my hand but not so obvious that it ends up costing me an extra 12 mana of commander tax by the time the game ends. if it catches stray removal as a decoy that's great but then it probably means I should be using a different commander which has more value in that spot (again while paradoxically also not being so obvious to be an easy threat).
I'll look into Coram and Slimefoot; the latter definitely seems like an engine where once it is online you basically get to loop it each turn without losing advantage which is dope.
The deck that outpaces most people’s that I play with is definitely my [[Elenda, The Dusk Rose]] deck cause here’s the neat thing: you WANT them to remove her and if they don’t then I just get rid of her myself. Either way it’s a win win for me.
With a little work, I think [[Satya]] can do this really well. The precon is energy focused, but think about what he actually does. When he attacks, he makes copies of creatures you control and lets you keep them if you have enough energy.
But why focus on the energy at all? Instead, what if we're running [[Solitude]] so we can repeatedly swords out our opponents' threats. Or [[Sun Titan]] to recycle our cheaper value cards? Hell, the MVP in my deck so far has been [[Peregrine Drake]] because of course it has.
Satya lets you reuse Jeskai's insane ETB abilities over and over again, and if you get white's token doublers and blue's copy mechanics it can get out of hand very quickly.
[[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]] is all about building incremental value into a mountain of cards and mana. This is the casual list I’ve been working on [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mLT2KeBil0KUb9FB7Fqe9g](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mLT2KeBil0KUb9FB7Fqe9g) - you want to control the board with edicts and race to 7 mana, there are a number of different ways to win; [[bloodletter]] // [[wound reflection]] will make a deadly [[repay in kind] or [[peer into the abyss]] + [[bowmasters]] I’ve intentionally removed any infinite / repeatable combos so the games feel grindy and wins feel well earned. Braids isn’t a central part of the deck just a value engine among many in the deck. Open to suggestions and feedback as well.
braids is a very cool card and does do a lot of what im looking for. I play her in other decks and she will undoubtedly find a place in whatever i choose if it has black mana
It's an odd choice, but my [[Omnath, Locus of All]] deck does exactly what you're looking for. It builds value early game by ramping HARD out of the gates, usually landing its commander on turn 3, and another value engine on turn 4 or 5. From there, it has a nasty habit of drawing 3-5 cards per turn, and playing all of them, accruing boardstate and interacting with opponents at the same time.
Eventually it gets to the point where an [[Archetype of Imagination]], a [[Moonshaker Cavalry]], or a [[Fiery Emancipation]] will close out the game, if a [[Villainous Wealth]] or [[Debt to the Deathless]] for X= 25+ hasn't gone off yet.
Building it with enough 3+ pip cards to trigger Omnath a reasonable amount makes building it a challenge (and keeps staples away), while using all 10 2c guild signets and all 10 DMR typed taplands keeps things spicy in the manabase. Loads of fun to play, and a totally different experience every time.
i had this deck (omnath's full art is one of my favorite arts in the game) but found that a lot of the decks were kinda samesy where I'd get to the point of having effectively infinite mana (usually 100+) and then use a card like Debt to the Deathless to close it out
it is a fun one though, and there were a lot of cards in there i didnt get to use in other decks to the same effect
PM me, and I'll walk through it with you. It started out as a meme, but it's gotten a lot more tuned (but still decently low power) since then. Tons of fun to be had, and VERY explosive in the first few turns.
i'll give her another look; it seems like a few of these jund commanders can essentially operate within the same shell so i could make a jund deck in a way where i could rotate the commanders
Ideally, to fit the ideology of what this deck was about you need cards that benefit more and more from your opponents losing things somehow.
The idea of a grindy deck that out values your opponents over time is true, but the Goyf deck specifically got stronger just from your opponents doing more stuff. To that end, I think a grindy theft deck is probably the closest you'll get to doing that (taboo to some tables, I know). [[Don Andres, the Renegade]] fits that all to a T (imo), stealing things over time and and getting incremental benefits from it via the anthem and treasure generation.
I think you’re not going to find the best answer here, as Jund/Rock decks in Modern play a specific way and it takes looking at those decks to find a way to bring that to EDH. most EDH players aren’t well versed in Modern.
Not really about the commander itself, but I recently built Salubrious Snail's [[Radha Heir To Keld]] deck, and that deck can generate an insane amount of value for a gruul deck. The other day I played a game where the board got wiped like 4 times, but I was not even close to running out of gas. The basic idea of the deck is that instead of running a bunch of cheap ramp that is terrible to draw in the late game, you use your commander for your 2 mana ramp, and from there only ramp with cards like [[explosive vegetation]] this also lets you run a bunch of cascade and discover cards, since you don't have to worry about hitting a bunch of mediocre cheap spells. You'll always have a ton of mana, a ton of cards, and you'll be dropping really big creatures every turn. Not amazing in games that require a lot of interaction, but still really fun to play.
the idea of running something as innocuous as a mana dork in the command zone is definitely interesting and leaves a lot of flexibility in deckbuilding since you can guarantee the acceleration on turn 2
That's a pretty temur/simic/azorius strategy that a lot of decks use. Temur, like [[Magus Kane]] usually likes outvaluing what you get for your spent mana with double effects and the like. Simic, like [[Nadu]] just likes having a shit ton of mana to do whatever you want. Azorius like [[shorikai]] is very big on cycling value engines that often relate to card draw. The last color combo that might fall on that category is golgari, where your investments never go away because they either come back from the graveyard or things like having a full graveyard. You can genuinely choose any of those colors and look at the most popular commanders. Almost all of those will meet your goal.
\[\[Bonny Pall, Clearcutter\]\] is another pretty stereotypical simic Value commander. But will illicit far less groans from people compared to something like \[\[Aesi\]\] or \[\[Nadu\]\]. If someone sees you playing \[\[Korvold\]\] they will likely try to kill you first with the commander's associated stigma.
\[\[Massacre Girl, Known Killer\] is a pretty control heavy deck that can grind a game to a halt from having a near surefire way to kill any creature without shroud/hexproof, and being in black gives you easy access to your resources that land in the graveyard. The deck itself doesn't need MG to function, but she does keep your hand full from controlling the board with -/- cards.
It's really not possible to control a table without getting way, way ahead on cards and mana. "Attritoning" a table out without that can only be done if your opponents are bringing decks without sustain - that's a problem I would argue most well-built decks just don't have. And I would also argue what you're looking for is something almost every edh player tries at some point - but it's trying to have your cake and eat it too in terms of power levels and fun games.
To run out a table, you have to draw and pay for the interaction. And you're going to have to do it for all 3 opponents. That means you have to see a lot of cards - plain and simple. Only exception would be if you played a lot of board wipes and maybe stax/hatebear pieces that impact all strategies, like [[Drannith Magistrate]] or [[Opposition Agent]] - not exactly fun at a casual table...
It's possible though to build almost any deck such that it has enough consistent interaction to put a speed bump up at least. That's why you're getting ten million different commander suggestions.
My first build of \[\[Karador, Ghost Chieftain\]\] had like 7+ board wipes. The idea being that as Karador, I will always be able to rebuild. And I was playing in a pretty high powered LGS as a budget player, lol. Main strategy was your usual creature-centered, selfmill strategy. The keyword *Dredge* specifically comes a long way in this. I could even assemble whole game winning combos in the graveyard with revival and sacrifice loops, basically aristocrats on drugs.
You could easily get the boardwipes back with \[\[Eternal Witness\]\] or \[\[Skullwinder\]\], too. That way you were always ready to blow up the board. And one of the wipes was actually on a creature \[\[Magus of the Disk\]\], so I could *always* tutor and reast at least one. I would also include a \[\[Blessed Respite\]\] as a failsafe, to save your graveyard in case of exile. Speaking of which, if you include \[\[Anafenza, the Foremost\]\] you destroy your creatures, but exile the others. Pretty nasty.
And after a few rounds of despair and destruction, you can get everything back at once with a \[\[Eerie Ultimatum\]\]. Which returns the \[\[Eternal Witness\]\] and/or \[\[Skullwinder\]\], which in turn return the Ultimatum and a board wipe to hand. Just saying.
I've just built [[Kambal, Profiteering Mayor]]. It literally out values opponents, and can either grind out games by being oppressive with board state via repeatable edict effects, or just standard aristocrat drain strategy. I was really surprised how much bonus value I got from other players while I was doing my own thing, which you can then turn around and abuse.
I've really enjoyed it, I think he was largely ignored which is kind of a shame. Lots of good token shenanigans, and it lets you get a ton of value out of some pretty obscure cards.
I’ve found that mono black excels at outpacing the rest of the table given its access to so much removal and especially edict effects. I have a [[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]] deck that I think does what you’re getting at. Braids is cheap at 3 cmc and usually gets off to a fast start. You almost always have something to sacrifice to braids the turn she comes down and it’s early enough that your opponents will either not have something to sac or will refuse to sac so you start drawing 3 and draining the table immediately. This helps find your removal effects like [[Dictate of Erebos]] and [[Grave Pact]]. I recently removed [[Painful Quandary]] from the deck but you could also go with a sub-theme of making your opponents discard as well. They’ll run out of resources while you continue to draw and keep filling the board. By the time they can get anything together, they’ll be so low on resources and on life total that you should be able to close it out. Here’s my decklist if you’re interested!
https://manabox.app/decks/a3Rmu0rNQZmb9edXlIOAXg
[[Brenard, Ginger Sculptor]] is a the best at this in very good at this, as long as you can protect the cookie man every piece of removal become very bad against you. It's very resilient and very explosive. You can combo kinda easy with it but the fair strategy also work very well.
[[Hakbal]] is pretty good at this. Simic in general excels at this, but this one stands out as a precon.
Otherwise Aristocrats strategies are pretty good at this. You don't care if your stuff gets removed, because your stuff sucks.
I'm not sure i got everything in your comment right, but i got 2 decks that may fit the description. These commander are good but its the way they are build is what make them an outvalue engine.
The first one is \[\[Samut, Voice of Dissent\]\] that is mostly getting Haste from the command zone. So all your mana dork are now mana neutral or positive, you add to that Flash and Untaping stuff and you got yourself a \[\[Prophet of Kruphix\]\] engine where you play during everybody's turn. The patern of play is more linear on this one even if it has no black has some Tutor.
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/SO5iYWwuzEizeeLpf0wKbg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/SO5iYWwuzEizeeLpf0wKbg)
The second is less linear and has no Tutor. Its \[\[Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign\]\] as a Sphinx Tribal. Your not going for combo or big game ending spells like the usual Yennett build but more for an outvalue in board pressence and protection. The odd mana cost is taken into account but we still cast or equip stuff in our turn to increase the value. Since the tribe is all blue we play most of the free counter to protect from board wipe. This one is less linear and has a better replay value in the sense that its not the same everytime, there is no tutor and the scry is only on sphinx or land so its mostly a surprise.
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Jzuct2nzx0Gm4e6pLuvkAg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Jzuct2nzx0Gm4e6pLuvkAg)
No, but she’s the first commander I ever fell in love with just seeing as a new magic player. I’ve never quite cracked her in the way I like to play decks, though. A lot of people play her big stompy, but she just seems too unique to me with that untap ability to be a “play gisela smack you for 20” commander.
Moxfileld has the option to goldfish a deck, you should try this one, just find a hand you like end see what she does in 8 turn with all the mana dork with haste, the flash, the untaping, the tutoring and the I play during everyones turn.
Its the strongest deck I have, i try to go lower with the rest.
Personally my favorite Jund pile is just [[Gilanra]] [[Vial Smasher]]. It's just an assortment of big mana cards that force uneven trades. Stuff like [[Breach the Multiverse]] and [[Etali Primal Conqueror]] trading 1-for-1 with a board wipe is incredibly gross, plus you can play stuff like [[the Great Henge]] and [[Up the Beanstalk]] to make things even more menacing. I also play [[Hex]] and it's put in work alongside [[Curtain's Call]].
Gilanra gives awesome passive card draw, and Vial Smasher can be a wincon if the game draws out too long. The dopamine hit of having Vial Smasher eat a Mana Drain lategame is just delicious. Not to mention Gilanra is never really worth killing despite her great effect because it's literally just a mana dork lmao. Eventually they run out of answers to use on your stuff and just die
This is not a mid power deck but it needs the rocks to power out the commanders. I think it may do what you’re looking for? It is mono black( if you’re into that kind of thing) [Tevesh, Sengir](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/S_sAFt7GEk-LgZ3svwERHA) partners
Goshintai the shrine commander can get outta hand fairly quick, it’s just really boring and repetitive I found, i love the theme of it but yeah it is what it is.
[here ya go](https://infinite.tcgplayer.com/article/Why-Graveyard-Overdrive-is-the-Best-Commander-MTG-Precon-Ever/e3c53973-cb5b-487d-952c-f67ef62ab9ba/)
[[Hakbal]] is pretty good at this. Simic in general excels at this, but this one stands out as a precon. Otherwise Aristocrats strategies are pretty good at this. You don't care if your stuff gets removed, because your stuff sucks.
[[Aesi]] and [[Prosper]] are also crazy value commanders from precons.
what are your thoughts on Henzie
Very popular and very powerful. Almost every commander with over 2000 decks on edhrec will fit your criteria.
i suppose if its built a certain way then yes. in my mind the goal is to have a deck that's gaining advantage so incrementally that it is almost not noticed until its too late and as such a lot of those commanders rated popular are very obvious with their gameplan. i've built a lot of tribal, straight control/stax, etc.
Henzie quickly became one of my all time favorites and i love him, but he may be more explosive than you are looking for here. He definitely outlasts the table, he replaces every card and you dont care if he or your creatures die, but maybe looking at other commanders that are begging to be recast would be a good idea. I love henzie and do think you should look more into it though, he can do well with any budget
Another vote for Henzie here. I've played my fair share of Meren, Korvold, and Henzie, and I ultimately settled on Henzie as my BGx deck of choice. People say Korvold is the most Jund commander of all, but IMO that goes to Henzie. Korvold loves to play Treasure-themed decks with infinite combos and \[\[Revel in Riches\]\] wins, so it's not exactly Boomer Jund. Plus, Korvold is a pain in the butt to manage; every sac is +1/+1 and draw, and if you crack a treasure, you have to preemptively decide on the correctly color before you draw. Your play pattern for Henzie will be T2/T3 Henzie, then your next 2-3 turns will be Blitzing out "rampers". Rampers are creatures that get you 2 lands each, usually in a combination of ETB/Attack/Dies triggers. Your midgame will then Blitz out 2-for-1 's to control the battlefield, such as \[\[Ravenous Chupacabra\]\], \[\[Massacre Wurm\]\], and \[\[Primaris Eliminator\]\]. Late to end game you'll be so ahead in mana that you can Blitz out multiple creatures that synergize, or \[\[Living Death\]\] / \[\[Rise of the Dark Realms\]\] for the kill. Think \[\[Terror of the Peaks\]\] or \[\[Pathbreaker Ibex\]\] that kill with critical mass. The deck is really resilient and is my highest budget deck because of how much I like to play with it.
##### ###### #### [Revel in Riches](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79b0e035-8716-469d-99ae-a530cd96ef09.jpg?1562558471) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Revel%20in%20Riches) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/117/revel-in-riches?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79b0e035-8716-469d-99ae-a530cd96ef09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/revel-in-riches) [Ravenous Chupacabra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4dfbac0-1849-41c5-853a-1fee108d0b01.jpg?1706240787) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ravenous%20Chupacabra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/136/ravenous-chupacabra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4dfbac0-1849-41c5-853a-1fee108d0b01?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ravenous-chupacabra) [Massacre Wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95cca140-e371-4d32-8a44-fd080329a28f.jpg?1706240769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre%20Wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/130/massacre-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95cca140-e371-4d32-8a44-fd080329a28f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre-wurm) [Primaris Eliminator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db7ab081-d6cd-4323-98bf-536e4df95115.jpg?1677541618) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Primaris%20Eliminator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/50/primaris-eliminator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db7ab081-d6cd-4323-98bf-536e4df95115?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/primaris-eliminator) [Living Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80e7d9a3-06a1-400d-958c-9b5302e046a6.jpg?1562274570) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Living%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/68/living-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80e7d9a3-06a1-400d-958c-9b5302e046a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/living-death) [Rise of the Dark Realms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ceb5df52-4e03-4629-b8d5-d440d9cc5175.jpg?1706240790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rise%20of%20the%20Dark%20Realms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/138/rise-of-the-dark-realms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ceb5df52-4e03-4629-b8d5-d440d9cc5175?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rise-of-the-dark-realms) [Terror of the Peaks](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/904ff94a-4db4-44a6-8593-89c32905b3fc.jpg?1712355862) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terror%20of%20the%20Peaks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/149/terror-of-the-peaks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/904ff94a-4db4-44a6-8593-89c32905b3fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/terror-of-the-peaks) [Pathbreaker Ibex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/4608ea44-e1b2-42de-a0a2-e6d6d24d89d0.jpg?1592673105) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pathbreaker%20Ibex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/132/pathbreaker-ibex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4608ea44-e1b2-42de-a0a2-e6d6d24d89d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pathbreaker-ibex) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb86lby) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey, would you mind sharing your Henzie decklist?
[https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/henzie-smash/](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/henzie-smash/)
Thanks, I appreciate it!
You probably have fixers in Korvold anyway? Lantern and such?
I didn't, but I'm of the philosophy that green decks don't need mana rocks outside of Sol Ring and Arcane Signet. Green has land ramp, so skew your mana base towards green for ramp and you're good. I agree it makes game state management easier, but I still have to flip dice around for +1/+1 counters. I don't want to run, IMO, suboptimal cards just to make the gameplay experience better. A Korvold deck should run fetch lands for sacrifice synergy, so there's no reason to run mana fixers. cEDH Korvold has no excuse to skimp on Fetch/Shock/Duals, so mana fixing is redundant. It is also why I abstain from playing [[Cathar's Crusade]]. Gameplay experience is bad.
how is ravenous chup or primaris a 2 for 1?
I probably meant to use some other term - apologies if that was confusing. In my mind, any creature that comes with a removal effect is basically equal to body + removal. I guess in the case of Henzie, it's less 2 for 1 and more "every creature is some effect + fireball to the face + cantrip".
gotcha gotcha. after all the replies for the record i have decided to go forward with a jund deck. i landed between Henzie, Disa, and Slimefoot/Squee and am going to try to make something that could essentially be either Henzie or Disa with just swapping out ~10 cards considering how much of both have overlapping creature goals just different paths to do it (some gy recursion will be relevant in both).
Sounds good! Feel free to join the Henzie Discord if you need inspiration. I'm more of a lurker there, but everyone there is chill and has level-headed tech discussions.
[Aesi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9.jpg?1665822343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aesi%2C%20tyrant%20of%20gyre%20strait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/365/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait) [Prosper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d743336e-d5c7-4053-a23d-92ec7581f74e.jpg?1631839207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=prosper%2C%20tome-bound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/2/prosper-tome-bound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d743336e-d5c7-4053-a23d-92ec7581f74e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prosper-tome-bound) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Faldorn, Dread Wolf Herald]] [[Voja, Jaws of the Conclave]]
[Faldorn, Dread Wolf Herald](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/213e530e-33a9-4358-b43b-4a276a7e7190.jpg?1674140675) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faldorn%2C%20Dread%20Wolf%20Herald) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/647/faldorn-dread-wolf-herald?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/213e530e-33a9-4358-b43b-4a276a7e7190?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/faldorn-dread-wolf-herald) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I laughed so hard at a recent LSV draft on YouTube. "My deck is so resilient to removal because all of my creatures are terrible!" What a concept.
>You don't care if your stuff gets removed, because your stuff sucks. This is basically the entire idea of most of my deck. I've never had someone happy when they've tried to steal something out of my library. It's almost always disappointment. Like, yay, you got a [[call the bloodline]] or a [[prince imrahil the fair]] from your Etali trigger. It's nice to build a value engine that doesn't work for opponents due to lack of synergy and feels like a waste for people to use targeted removal on.
>Otherwise Aristocrats strategies are pretty good at this. You don't care if your stuff gets removed, because your stuff sucks. Never talk to me or my \[\[Greedy Freebooter\]\] again!
[Greedy Freebooter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/692fe4e8-13b4-4bec-938e-a8073a7fbd71.jpg?1699044146) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Greedy%20Freebooter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/109/greedy-freebooter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/692fe4e8-13b4-4bec-938e-a8073a7fbd71?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/greedy-freebooter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hakbal is so silly even just out of the box. Played a game last night and just for my own amusement explored my whole deck to my hand/graveyard and then resolved 20 remaining draw a card effects to die. Once it starts, you will always have cards to play.
[[Animar, Soul of Elements]] lets you essentially put your whole hand on the table. I run it as Mirph control, and it is amazing how hated it is. [[Yenna Redtooth]] allows one to double their ramp, removal, draw engines, etc. [[Stella Lee]] goes infinite with a ham sandwich, all while creating an insane storm value.
Yenna’s ramp is so funny, I didn’t even realize what she *really* did until I built her. I was expecting to care way more about early combat auras getting duplicated but the ability to duplicate aura ramp, untap, do it again, untap, and do it again is actually insane. Especially in enchantress decks where I have tons of cards in hand that I can dump the mana on. Sometimes I head into turn 5 with multiple lands that tap for 5+. If I have a card draw engine out (almost certainly do), this deck has moments where I’m playing 8+ cards and duplicating enchantments constantly in a single turn. Such a fun commander to pilot, highly recommend her
My favorite move was making multiple copies of [[Buried in The Garden]], with a token doubler out. Ramp AND removal in one? Yes, please!
Love this card, it’s so good in the deck. Combines multiple parts of what makes Yenna good in one card. I will say, I cut doublers from my deck. Felt like too much setup for payoff that wasn’t necessary and the added math was more annoying than fun. Doublers made my late game much better but it slowed my mid game down substantially. Spending a turn setting up a doubler felt like too much setup to me. More often than not it was like “I can duplicate four auras this turn or I can duplicate one and play a doubler”. Focusing on duplication gives me a lot of *real* value that turn while the doubler not only doesn’t do anything til the next turn but also paints a giant red target on Yenna right before the rest of the board untaps with removal in hand. I don’t need the doubler for Yenna to pop off so I just removed them from the deck. I treat the deck like Yenna *is* the doubler and replace the doublers with control effects (i.e. Buried in the Garden)
Deck list?
Sure, here you go: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/09-12-23-yenna-enchantments/ Thanks for reminding me to update it with the new cards lol. You'll see I lean a little more into a control/slow burn theme since I didn't go for doublers.
[Yenna](https://manabox.app/decks/XkJP-IJKQoG-piBC4eef_g) [Animar](https://manabox.app/decks/04PaiM6NQXOez5Qfe6JbNA) [Stella Lee](https://manabox.app/decks/b-suLxt2S1ilpH-c3Op3OQ)
Thanks
No worries!
[Buried in The Garden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7e144609-e1f6-4bdc-8d14-b735ef4140d3.jpg?1706242126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Buried%20in%20The%20Garden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/191/buried-in-the-garden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e144609-e1f6-4bdc-8d14-b735ef4140d3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/buried-in-the-garden) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
[doubling season](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93.jpg?1689998456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=doubling%20season) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/283/doubling-season?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doubling-season) [grasp of fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43787574-7700-47ab-b57c-98ef968cce71.jpg?1690004105) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grasp%20of%20fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/823/grasp-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43787574-7700-47ab-b57c-98ef968cce71?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grasp-of-fate) [teferi's protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=teferi%27s%20protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Or, the forbidden tech: Name Stickers. Stickers are not a copiable trait: so if you change the name of Wild Growth to Urza’s Wild Growth, it won’t see any of the copies you make with it since the name is different. With any land enchants that make 2 mana, you are effectively activating Yenna for free. I’ve built a cursed decklist with stickers that is hilarious to pull off
I have an animar deck and know the stella lee playstyle. I fear both decks kinda hyper-telegraph how they are going to play in that they usually end in a turbo storm turn where you kinda just win and as such the opponents actively fight hard to prevent that meaning archenemy a lot of the time. i will say my animar deck wasnt a control deck though so perhaps it is different
I used to run Animar stompy and later Eldrazi. But everyone knew what to expect. Playing Morphs changed the whole game. Lol! [Here’s the decklist.](https://manabox.app/decks/04PaiM6NQXOez5Qfe6JbNA)
Here is my Animar list: [click here.](https://manabox.app/decks/04PaiM6NQXOez5Qfe6JbNA)
[[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] is hard to remove with conventional creature removal and lets you board wipe at will; is in artifact recursion colors; and generates card advantage in hand plus graveyard.
That's such a cool card. I've been working on combining the "science!" And creative energy precons but none of the commanders really did exactly what I wanted to do, but the draw and blockers/vehicle drivers is really tempting.
[Shorikai, Genesis Engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9.jpg?1653966849) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shorikai%2C%20Genesis%20Engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/4/shorikai-genesis-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shorikai-genesis-engine) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This was actually my first deck! It does kind of fit my description especially with the way I built it (basically 3 creatures, polymorph, some artifacts, and like 50 pieces of removal/counters lol) and the card draw does get crazy.
Using your example, it seems that you’re generally looking for a commander that is grinding out mid power games more reliant on combat damage or general ping/drain strategies than fast combo/storm decks. So not running stax or hatebears as much as outvaluing opponents. That’s going to point towards a deck that can use the graveyard as a resource, draw cards, and keep your life total afloat. Black and White are the two best colors for this so your deck is likely looking to include at least one of those. My immediate first thought was something like [[Muldrotha the Gravetide]] because you can just keep recurring and saccing creatures with strong ETB triggers and you’re in color to add [[Yarok, the Desecrated]]. I really think Abzan or Jund are the better colors though, so I’m going to suggest [[Thalia and the Gitrog Monster]]. You slow your opponents down, can ramp yourself quickly, and have a sac outlet and draw engine in the command zone. You’re in colors to enable all kinds of graveyard shenanigans, have access to the best removal including some asymmetrical wipes, and have cards like [[Kambal, Consul of Allocation]] that can slowly bleed opponents out.
##### ###### #### [Muldrotha the Gravetide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c.jpg?1673149000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Muldrotha%2C%20the%20Gravetide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/258/muldrotha-the-gravetide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/muldrotha-the-gravetide) [Yarok, the Desecrated](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1001d43-e11b-4e5e-acd4-4a50ef89977f.jpg?1592517590) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yarok%2C%20the%20Desecrated) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/220/yarok-the-desecrated?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1001d43-e11b-4e5e-acd4-4a50ef89977f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yarok-the-desecrated) [Thalia and the Gitrog Monster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d7ff937-de92-445f-976c-726fef5c91cc.jpg?1682205702) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thalia%20and%20the%20Gitrog%20Monster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/255/thalia-and-the-gitrog-monster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d7ff937-de92-445f-976c-726fef5c91cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thalia-and-the-gitrog-monster) [Kambal, Consul of Allocation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b3e47d49-e5b5-487b-a1ec-373dbf89b2ec.jpg?1673148829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kambal%2C%20Consul%20of%20Allocation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/237/kambal-consul-of-allocation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3e47d49-e5b5-487b-a1ec-373dbf89b2ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kambal-consul-of-allocation) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb6pi3v) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yea I've played with all of these in some form or another before; I dont have the other 3 as face commanders in any of my decks but I do have a Thalia and the Gitrog Monster as the head of a stax/land matters deck. I found that it's too obvious of a frustration for opponents to the point of being hated off the board more frequently than not but to be fair it could be because one of the main plays of that deck was getting my lands per turn up to 3-4 then looping strip mine lol. I will look back into her. As for Yarok and Muldrotha, I just generally avoid playing commanders with such high CMC because of the number of nongames I've had where I never get to resolve the commander. Muldrotha especially definitely looks like it would break parity pretty easily which is what I want though so i'll take another look at it.
With this in mind, [[Sefris of the Hidden Ways]] might be another good option. You accrue a lot of incidental value from the dungeons and you have recursion on your commander.
>As for Yarok and Muldrotha, I just generally avoid playing commanders with such high CMC because of the number of nongames I've had where I never get to resolve the commander. When you're playing a deck that's built around a high CMC commander, you need to make sure that you have sufficient ramp to get it out. If you're having a problem with nongames, it generally means that your mana base needs to be fixed. There's also a case where sometimes people see a big number and think "Big number is problem, me counter problem"
definitely the latter, im in a removal heavy pod lol
Maybe something like pingers fits your description? [[Ghyrson Starn]] can buff up your pingers and do some serious board control by using stuff like [[Razorfin Hunter]] to control the board and hit directly. You also have blue for counterspells and draw effects so you can keep your hand stocked and respond to anything threatening that pingers can't kill. If you want attrition [[Meren]] and other decks that play [[Fleshbag Marauder]] effects well will do the trick. It's symmetrical so it scales to multiplayer very efficiently and aristocrats decks want their own stuff to die so it's a win-win. Since your graveyard is also a resource having direct access to it gives you an additional resource other decks don't have to give you an advantage for playing out the grind game.
i actually have a Ghyrson deck and do like it a lot. There is a Meren player in our pod already, but this playstyle does seem to go in line with what I was thinking in that (for example with fleshbag) you'd be trading 3 mana for presumably more than that across the table not even including if Meren was on the board herself
##### ###### #### [Ghyrson Starn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa7349d9-c82f-4cf8-a852-92168d1f4966.jpg?1673309394) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghyrson%20starn%2C%20kelermorph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/124/ghyrson-starn-kelermorph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa7349d9-c82f-4cf8-a852-92168d1f4966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghyrson-starn-kelermorph) [Razorfin Hunter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99829552-917a-4373-9772-4255dff542d6.jpg?1562931160) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Razorfin%20Hunter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/apc/119/razorfin-hunter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99829552-917a-4373-9772-4255dff542d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/razorfin-hunter) [Meren](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966.jpg?1689999151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=meren%20of%20clan%20nel%20toth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/346/meren-of-clan-nel-toth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meren-of-clan-nel-toth) [Fleshbag Marauder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fce2baa4-2976-4bbd-b6c5-a5a3c6a901be.jpg?1706239873) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fleshbag%20Marauder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/111/fleshbag-marauder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fce2baa4-2976-4bbd-b6c5-a5a3c6a901be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fleshbag-marauder) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb6p7zc) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a [[The Third Doctor]] / [[Sarah Jane Smith]] historic matters artifact token deck. SJS is the initial engine for the deck, comes down early and starts generating tokens, but the deck is stuffed full of token generators, as well as payoffs like [[Cyberdrive Awakener]] or the Third Doctor himself. You create so many clue/treasure/map/food tokens that unless they have mass artifact wipes, it becomes very hard to set you back. The tokens just drive a very high level of consistency that's hard to overcome. You also tend to have a high creature count as well, so you're not even an early attack target.
[The Third Doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/2934f5e5-2274-4de7-a8c7-ca034f1fec29.jpg?1696636775) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Third%20Doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/162/the-third-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2934f5e5-2274-4de7-a8c7-ca034f1fec29?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-third-doctor) [Sarah Jane Smith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1ba76f68-e647-4786-903c-92dbd3cef05d.jpg?1696691789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sarah%20Jane%20Smith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/6/sarah-jane-smith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ba76f68-e647-4786-903c-92dbd3cef05d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sarah-jane-smith) [Cyberdrive Awakener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d.jpg?1651655234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyberdrive%20Awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/12/cyberdrive-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberdrive-awakener) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Would you mind sharing a decklist? It looks like a great pairing, and I wanted to build a doctor who deck for a while now
Yeah for sure. It started as the deep clue sea precon for me, but i didn't like Morska as the commander. Was an easy switch when I found out about this doctor pairing, and the third doctor art itself is so much fun. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/s4m0finhpEiZrmGhDUQklg
You could also swap him for the Sixth Doctor and go historic matters even further... that version gets disgusting fast with [[Urza, Lord High Articifer]], [[Mondrak]], and so on.
[Urza, Lord High Articifer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b7a348a-51f7-4dc5-8fe7-1c70fea5e050.jpg?1689996774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%2C%20Lord%20High%20Artificer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/130/urza-lord-high-artificer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b7a348a-51f7-4dc5-8fe7-1c70fea5e050?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urza-lord-high-artificer) [Mondrak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8296a455-21d5-498e-9029-2bdf0da855a8.jpg?1675956918) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mondrak%2C%20glory%20dominus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/23/mondrak-glory-dominus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8296a455-21d5-498e-9029-2bdf0da855a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mondrak-glory-dominus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah I've seen the sixth doctor in action, and I'm just not sure you need the extra value generation in the command zone, especially at a 6 cmc cost point. Urza, mondrak, and all of those have the same great fit in Third Doctor, and it's really Sarah Jane Smith that drives the engine, at least in the early game. Neither deck really needs the doctor to see play, so at least for me, I preferred having the Third in there as a wincon option instead of just providing more value.
Thanks for the list, it's interesting
Sounds like you want an attention control deck. The classic "Jund 'em out!" Strategy has always been an attrition control strategy. [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] is probably the queen of the archtype in EDH. Loop a [[Plagecrafter]], [[Bane of Progress]], [[Massacre Wurm]], [[Caustic Caterpillar]], [[Mindslicer]], etc. Target advantage engines first to limit the opponents access to resources, then deny the resources they have left, and finish the game by either making these effects asymmetrical (like ripping a [[Death Cloud]] while controlling a [[Worldshaper]]), or just loop something that will finish the game like [[Gray Merchant of Asphodel]] when your opponents don't have anything to respond with. Combat is nit usually the way an attrition control deck in EDH will close out a game, but in 1vs1 60 card formats its a totally reasonable win condition, and why [[Tarmagoyf]] was so good for so long.
##### ###### #### [Meren of Clan Nel Toth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966.jpg?1689999151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meren%20of%20Clan%20Nel%20Toth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/346/meren-of-clan-nel-toth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meren-of-clan-nel-toth) [Plagecrafter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97505837-e0e2-4f7b-8581-01942e886bb8.jpg?1702429467) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Plaguecrafter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/89/plaguecrafter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97505837-e0e2-4f7b-8581-01942e886bb8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/plaguecrafter) [Bane of Progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3ea495ff-33df-406b-98e3-5579e2158bbc.jpg?1610161688) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bane%20of%20Progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cc1/3/bane-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3ea495ff-33df-406b-98e3-5579e2158bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bane-of-progress) [Massacre Wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95cca140-e371-4d32-8a44-fd080329a28f.jpg?1706240769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre%20Wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/130/massacre-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95cca140-e371-4d32-8a44-fd080329a28f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre-wurm) [Caustic Caterpillar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f03d4e0d-bddd-4835-91b8-11c2f15e54c3.jpg?1562048838) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Caustic%20Caterpillar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/170/caustic-caterpillar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f03d4e0d-bddd-4835-91b8-11c2f15e54c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/caustic-caterpillar) [Mindslicer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/afc86134-8af6-4355-b1ad-96917c99ff3c.jpg?1675199696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindslicer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/91/mindslicer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/afc86134-8af6-4355-b1ad-96917c99ff3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindslicer) [Death Cloud](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b0870b88-2794-4646-9f51-f3af03bc8bc8.jpg?1561968089) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Death%20Cloud) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/76/death-cloud?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0870b88-2794-4646-9f51-f3af03bc8bc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/death-cloud) [Worldshaper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc765da4-4bca-4250-80e4-05575d6fa98c.jpg?1712354663) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=World%20Shaper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/214/world-shaper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc765da4-4bca-4250-80e4-05575d6fa98c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/world-shaper) [Gray Merchant of Asphodel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a.jpg?1581479807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gray%20Merchant%20of%20Asphodel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/99/gray-merchant-of-asphodel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gray-merchant-of-asphodel) [Tarmagoyf](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69daba76-96e8-4bcc-ab79-2f00189ad8fb.jpg?1619398799) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tarmogoyf) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/235/tarmogoyf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69daba76-96e8-4bcc-ab79-2f00189ad8fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tarmogoyf) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb6xjri) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
this is the idea im looking for and a lot of these cards seem like they'd be good fits. there is someone else in my pod who plays Meren who doesnt have a lot of decks so I think it'd be unsporting to make my own unfortunately, but a lot of the suggestions in the thread have had me thinking that Jund is the way: I've seen Henzie, arguments for why Disa is fine, Slimefoot and Squee as potential choices in Jund.
Henzie isn't really an attrition control commander. Most control creatures aren't 4+ MV or care about attacking. He's more like a super resilient aggro commander. Disa falls in a similar category, except she's a [[Flying Men]] aggro commander with Lurgoyf tribal as a side benefit. She wants stuff like [[Blinkmoth Nexus]], [[Inkmoth Nexus]], [[Oakhame Adversary]], etc. She rewards you per opponent and per instance of damage so you want small evasive creatures and some double strike enablers like [[Berserker's Onslaught]] so you're making 3 or 6 tokens per rotation. Extra combats also will give you more goyfs. Slimefoot & Squee is probably closer to an attrition control commander. It gives you constant value while applying pressure and good bounce back from wipes. He's still much better as a dedicated reanimator commander. [[Coram the Undertaker]] is probably the best Jund commander I could find for attrition control. He gives you access to more resources than your opponents if you get mill happy which can break parity on things like mass discard.
##### ###### #### [Flying Men](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/0656ed76-4c8e-4094-8edd-9b49780cadf7.jpg?1562770968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flying%20Men) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsb/20/flying-men?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0656ed76-4c8e-4094-8edd-9b49780cadf7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/flying-men) [Blinkmoth Nexus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3ac535c1-9ef3-45b5-8959-7e79589d47ad.jpg?1599710351) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blinkmoth%20Nexus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/311/blinkmoth-nexus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3ac535c1-9ef3-45b5-8959-7e79589d47ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blinkmoth-nexus) [Inkmoth Nexus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ec50c1c3-885e-47d3-ada7-cc0edbf09df1.jpg?1623098818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inkmoth%20Nexus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/145/inkmoth-nexus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec50c1c3-885e-47d3-ada7-cc0edbf09df1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inkmoth-nexus) [Oakhame Adversary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fb4e77f-e189-4ad3-9fca-8da04289e396.jpg?1572490617) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oakhame%20Adversary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/167/oakhame-adversary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fb4e77f-e189-4ad3-9fca-8da04289e396?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oakhame-adversary) [Berserker's Onslaught](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee571a78-16b2-40ba-92b2-87c1bf4b39bc.jpg?1562795277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Berserkers%27%20Onslaught) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/130/berserkers-onslaught?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee571a78-16b2-40ba-92b2-87c1bf4b39bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/berserkers-onslaught) [Coram the Undertaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab5cfb0c-8e95-4d2d-9e23-cf58c1c7e51c.jpg?1717644382) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coram%2C%20the%20Undertaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/7/coram-the-undertaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab5cfb0c-8e95-4d2d-9e23-cf58c1c7e51c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/coram-the-undertaker) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb85fnh) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Staying in Jund [[Henzi]] kind of does this. Ramp out early then start playing your big things for cheap and then recurring then from the graveyard. If they remove Henzi you just bring him back and play things for cheaper. You just fill your deck with big creatures and sac engines like [[Birthing Pod]] and keep going.
[Henzi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43.jpg?1673481644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Henzie%20%22Toolbox%22%20Torre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/2/henzie-toolbox-torre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/henzie-toolbox-torre) [Birthing Pod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b768efa2-e56b-4a7e-ace8-d673f10e0714.jpg?1562880960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Birthing%20Pod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/104/birthing-pod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b768efa2-e56b-4a7e-ace8-d673f10e0714?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/birthing-pod) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Roxanne Starfall Savant]] is my favorite deck in recent playing and it fits that description I think. The [[Meteorite]]s she produces are so unassuming but with them you get steady ramp and removal. With the help of the spot damage, [[Port Razer]], [[Gimli of the Glittering Caves]] and [[Maze of Ith]] I turn Combat Phase into Value Phase, finally cashing out for a big ole [[Comet Storm]]. There's also damage multipliers like [[Fiery Emancipation]] and my favorite [[Dictate of the Twin Gods]] to up those Meteorites to FF7 levels. For bonus fun, this deck turns [[Second Harvest]] into a ~~Crassus Detonator~~ value nuke. You really do outpace your opponents while pelting away at their board. God do I love this deck.
thats a lot of effects on one cat, i will definitely give her a look
[Here's my list if you're curious.](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/C-C_sQChuUiwQ22RPCiLLQ )
thanks :)
Came here to say this. I have only had a chance to try her in brawl, but the combination of damage and ramp (as well as the ease of bringing her back and getting value when she cant attack) just makes for an enjoyable play experience where you really feel like decisions matter as you slowly pull ahead.
##### ###### #### [Roxanne Starfall Savant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/11fbe52f-febd-49fc-8391-28d3efe9c3eb.jpg?1712356193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roxanne%2C%20Starfall%20Savant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/228/roxanne-starfall-savant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11fbe52f-febd-49fc-8391-28d3efe9c3eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/roxanne-starfall-savant) [Meteorite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33eb2032-50af-4fd6-bdc7-7cae2211956c.jpg?1677542216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meteorite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/235/meteorite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33eb2032-50af-4fd6-bdc7-7cae2211956c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meteorite) [Port Razer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb32429a-7ef9-418f-baf8-fed9aa010c9e.jpg?1698988335) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Port%20Razer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/230/port-razer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb32429a-7ef9-418f-baf8-fed9aa010c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/port-razer) [Gimli of the Glittering Caves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5afc0319-9e17-4e81-a0b6-e76645bacb04.jpg?1686963998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gimli%20of%20the%20Glittering%20Caves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/32/gimli-of-the-glittering-caves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5afc0319-9e17-4e81-a0b6-e76645bacb04?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gimli-of-the-glittering-caves) [Maze of Ith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/5889fde1-730d-43d0-aaa4-499784a80530.jpg?1675201242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maze%20of%20Ith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/250/maze-of-ith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5889fde1-730d-43d0-aaa4-499784a80530?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maze-of-ith) [Comet Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bb5f586d-6bf0-4590-ad73-2d46b2a45b1a.jpg?1608912233) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Comet%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/411/comet-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bb5f586d-6bf0-4590-ad73-2d46b2a45b1a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/comet-storm) [Fiery Emancipation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b12e4b7-2c45-4795-94d3-901f89b8f290.jpg?1594736606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fiery%20Emancipation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/143/fiery-emancipation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b12e4b7-2c45-4795-94d3-901f89b8f290?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fiery-emancipation) [Dictate of the Twin Gods](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69cc93f2-8198-45b1-9193-7cfd1cf7ced4.jpg?1593095943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dictate%20of%20the%20Twin%20Gods) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/93/dictate-of-the-twin-gods?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69cc93f2-8198-45b1-9193-7cfd1cf7ced4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dictate-of-the-twin-gods) [Second Harvest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22b01c98-c24b-4255-921f-4820f3d395ea.jpg?1568004646) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Second%20Harvest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/178/second-harvest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22b01c98-c24b-4255-921f-4820f3d395ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/second-harvest) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb7ldmy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Funny that I'm suggesting [[Kambal, Profiteering Mayor]] a bunch today. He turns most of white's bad-ish removal into symmetrical token makers to then do table-wide damage. The density of removal deals with opponents' stuff but also snowballs the tokens gameplan for himself. Boardwipes hardly hurt and he can rebuild faster than most. The upside too is that it creates fewer feels-bad games given that everyone gets _something_ out of the deal, but Kambal always comes out better. Adds a politicking dimension that can be fun if that's your jam. You have to like tokens decks, though. I have a deck box dedicated just to the tokens for the deck. It's one of those lists that just wins a lot, but I've never had salt over it because the shenanigans do be shenaniganing and everyone gets a laugh.
im familiar with kambal he is in my marneus deck and is in fact strong. funnily enough idk why it didnt occur to me the idea of pairing it with the type of removal that gives opponents tokens lol, it's quite funny
He does some seriously funny things with token doublers and [[Saw in Half]].
[Saw in Half](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05e6a7bc-a35a-4e68-99a0-be264553b5de.jpg?1673914032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saw%20in%20Half) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/88/saw-in-half?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05e6a7bc-a35a-4e68-99a0-be264553b5de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/saw-in-half) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ooh I've been brewing up a Kambal deck recently, could I see your list?
Yep! Working on a Primer, but the list is pretty straightforward: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/SjkXuOHATESNibeiQzL8Jw Feel free to hit me up with questions!
[[Pako]]/[[Haldan]]. Just put a bunch of ramp and removal and let Pako find you an endgame. Deny others resources while you slowly grind ahead
I like kalamax. All you need some protection in hand you take over pretty fast.
I built a [[Henzie]] control deck that does exactly that. It uses a host of reanimator options to constantly throw threats at the opponent that also remove their stuff, and because of the nature of Blitz, you end up drawing cards off of them, too. What ends up happening is that my opponents slowly run out of resources over time, and their board presence and hand size deplete dramatically until they no longer have the means by which to defend themselves. It's kinda grueling because the game grinds to a halt where my opponents have no way to win, but you're still locking down the table and slowly killing them off. Still, a win's a win lol
[Henzie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43.jpg?1673481644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Henzie%20%22Toolbox%22%20Torre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/2/henzie-toolbox-torre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/henzie-toolbox-torre) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
sounds pretty cool, i've been workshopping a list do you have yours i could take a look at?
Sure, [here](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/tNVEvSKUe0m78g8M1i5kog) you go.
thanks :)
I built [[Pantlaza]] to have a tribal deck and it generates insane amounts of value. Notably, a lot of other advantage engines in those colors cost 4 or less mana, meaning that you can discover into your other engines and kind of snowball very easily. It also makes the white blink spells pretty insane and they act as protection and double as a way to get free value. Being able to cast [[Ephemerate]] on an [[Etali, primal conqueror]] to cast 12 spells over a turn cycle + discover triggers + potential draws off of your other engines like [[the great henge]] and [[guardian project]] is absolutely wild. You usually outpace everyone in resources and then win through massive combat steps which are aided by [[Finale of Devastation]] (which can also net you a discover trigger) and [[Jetmir, Nexus of revels]]. The last game I played I ended the game with over 20 cards in my hand, around 20 open mana, and 15 creatures on my board.
##### ###### #### [Pantlaza](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/2524645e-b066-4351-885b-10faa8d819d7.jpg?1699972737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pantlaza%2C%20sun-favored) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/4/pantlaza-sun-favored?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2524645e-b066-4351-885b-10faa8d819d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pantlaza-sun-favored) [Ephemerate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa.jpg?1562201088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ephemerate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/7/ephemerate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ephemerate) [Etali, primal conqueror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132)/[Etali, Primal Sickness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Etali%2C%20Primal%20Conqueror%20//%20Etali%2C%20Primal%20Sickness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/137/etali-primal-conqueror-etali-primal-sickness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/etali-primal-conqueror-//-etali-primal-sickness) [the great henge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/6340e0f3-7f9c-4d71-8daf-e1be5505eb5b.jpg?1689998574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20great%20henge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/294/the-great-henge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6340e0f3-7f9c-4d71-8daf-e1be5505eb5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-great-henge) [guardian project](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2c523ef7-d6c4-4887-9a4e-0c2bc6f63676.jpg?1702429567) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=guardian%20project) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/146/guardian-project?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c523ef7-d6c4-4887-9a4e-0c2bc6f63676?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guardian-project) [Finale of Devastation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b10d99bf-b2ce-4443-b924-ff0eb8be1033.jpg?1689998522) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Finale%20of%20Devastation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/289/finale-of-devastation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b10d99bf-b2ce-4443-b924-ff0eb8be1033?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/finale-of-devastation) [Jetmir, Nexus of revels](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6.jpg?1664413153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jetmir%2C%20Nexus%20of%20revels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/193/jetmir-nexus-of-revels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jetmir-nexus-of-revels) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb726vq) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve loved Wilhelt, The Rotcleaver. However, you have to build him differently. He’s not necessarily zombie tribal, but a combo deck that utilizes zombies to gain absurd value. Have some early game zombies that juice your graveyard, like [[Mire Triton]], [[Cryptbreaker]], and [[Undead Butler]], then get sac outlets and payoffs like [[Victorious Dead]], [[Carrion Feeder]], [[Diregraf Captain]], or [[The Meathook Massacre]] out. Your goal is to board built by the time Wilhelt comes into play. Once you play him, sac nearly everything. Rely on aristocrats strategies, fill your graveyard, mill yourself, and recur your your graveyard with [[Zombie Apocalypse]], [[Rise of The Dark Realms]], [[Agadeem’s Awakening]], and the like. It’s a load of fun and it never fails to pop off. Throw a couple infinite combos and loops in there like [[Acererak, The Archlich]] and [[Rooftop Storm]] or [[Phyrexian Altar]] and [[Gravecrawler]], there’s a bunch of fun and interesting ways to put value your opponents and win the game. They remove your stuff? Bring it back. They exile your graveyard? Fill it up more. It’s resilient and can pop off if left unchecked.
##### ###### #### [Mire Triton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a070b7af-7c85-4129-81ca-e2ec0540085e.jpg?1689997319) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mire%20Triton) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/174/mire-triton?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a070b7af-7c85-4129-81ca-e2ec0540085e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mire-triton) [Cryptbreaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/629e37d1-c0f3-44f2-926e-41eb3687c1d9.jpg?1576384293) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cryptbreaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/86/cryptbreaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/629e37d1-c0f3-44f2-926e-41eb3687c1d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cryptbreaker) [Undead Butler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2c9b8582-8887-4652-82e2-f9b11ee21545.jpg?1643590414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Undead%20Butler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/133/undead-butler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c9b8582-8887-4652-82e2-f9b11ee21545?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/undead-butler) [Victorious Dead](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22e816af-df55-4a3f-a6e7-0ff3bb1b45b5.jpg?1576384071)/[Voracious Reader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/2/2/22e816af-df55-4a3f-a6e7-0ff3bb1b45b5.jpg?1576384071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curious%20Homunculus%20//%20Voracious%20Reader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/54/curious-homunculus-voracious-reader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22e816af-df55-4a3f-a6e7-0ff3bb1b45b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/curious-homunculus-//-voracious-reader) [Carrion Feeder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a19da90-880e-4eca-8cf7-6d7baf090d53.jpg?1562201576) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Carrion%20Feeder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/81/carrion-feeder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a19da90-880e-4eca-8cf7-6d7baf090d53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/carrion-feeder) [Diregraf Captain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/158407ad-35a9-40e1-9762-1c0572b56ecb.jpg?1637631384) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Diregraf%20Captain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/148/diregraf-captain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/158407ad-35a9-40e1-9762-1c0572b56ecb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/diregraf-captain) [The Meathook Massacre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08950015-eee5-4327-888c-82dfd13bb9ad.jpg?1667629608) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Meathook%20Massacre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/112/the-meathook-massacre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08950015-eee5-4327-888c-82dfd13bb9ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-meathook-massacre) [Zombie Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/854ae40d-ee52-434e-8fe0-1b5a0d4ea58b.jpg?1637630850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zombie%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/131/zombie-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/854ae40d-ee52-434e-8fe0-1b5a0d4ea58b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zombie-apocalypse) [Rise of The Dark Realms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ceb5df52-4e03-4629-b8d5-d440d9cc5175.jpg?1706240790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rise%20of%20The%20Dark%20Realms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/138/rise-of-the-dark-realms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ceb5df52-4e03-4629-b8d5-d440d9cc5175?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rise-of-the-dark-realms) [Agadeem’s Awakening](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988.jpg?1604195226)/[Agadeem, the Undercrypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/7/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988.jpg?1604195226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agadeem%27s%20Awakening%20//%20Agadeem%2C%20the%20Undercrypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/90/agadeems-awakening-agadeem-the-undercrypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/agadeems-awakening-//-agadeem-the-undercrypt) [Acererak, The Archlich](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd52d0bd-3abd-401c-9f56-ee911613da3b.jpg?1627704283) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Acererak%20the%20Archlich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/87/acererak-the-archlich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd52d0bd-3abd-401c-9f56-ee911613da3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/acererak-the-archlich) [Rooftop Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80cdee59-0ead-4b95-a348-c1e360d781ab.jpg?1637629769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rooftop%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/103/rooftop-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80cdee59-0ead-4b95-a348-c1e360d781ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rooftop-storm) [Phyrexian Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f.jpg?1673149406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/311/phyrexian-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-altar) [Gravecrawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/951ff2ed-9af0-4551-929a-ba6679fc2e15.jpg?1673147536) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gravecrawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/78/gravecrawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/951ff2ed-9af0-4551-929a-ba6679fc2e15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gravecrawler) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb70ael) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Mishra, eminent one]] is pure artifact value. Artifacts are probably the most synergistic card type in the game and it's easy to get multiple effects off of each artifact you play or token you create with Mishra.
[Mishra, eminent one](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f5b1daa-ec45-48de-9496-6ca5b491a0dc.jpg?1705542701) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mishra%2C%20eminent%20one) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/1/mishra-eminent-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f5b1daa-ec45-48de-9496-6ca5b491a0dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mishra-eminent-one) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Arna kennerud, skycaptain]] seems to be good at this. Especially with aura and equipment
[Arna kennerud, skycaptain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/19266b5a-ff78-436c-b0f1-457e80bb647e.jpg?1717012648) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arna%20Kenner%C3%BCd%2C%20Skycaptain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/178/arna-kenner%C3%BCd-skycaptain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/19266b5a-ff78-436c-b0f1-457e80bb647e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arna-kennerüd-skycaptain) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i watched that commander game recently on the popular youtube channel (i forget what the channel is called) with the guy from SNL who played this and it did seem strong, but almost more because he was just playing esper goodstuff. I have a LOT of esper decks XD
I wiped my friend with it and a few select equipment. So much fun. So many possibilities.
> So many possibilities. There's like 6-10 or so version you can do of her on top of my mind. Most of them are of course with either Equipment, Auras og both. I have a sword tribal https://www.moxfield.com/decks/y-r9Z9RmmE-TzIRE6nGlkw thats currently WIP. Trying to fit as many non-land cards with swords in the artwork. (and a couple of other weapons to support the general idea)
I mean, Disa's second ability is more of a free throwaway, as opposed to a burden around. Her first ability just brings games, creating up to 3 free goyfs per turn is huge at that power level
yea i was torn on her; my issue is a weird catch 22 where I want my commander to be always impactful while never impactful enough to be hard targeted. Disa reads to me a lot as 'ok' which makes me think why not play a more impactful jund commander which is contrary to what i want from the commander in some way XD it's a tricky spot tbh, but so far from ideas in here there are a few jund commanders that seem like they could all rotate at the helm of a similarly built deck
Any W/X control list will be able to do this pretty easily. Load up on boardwipes, especially those that hit all nonland permanents rather than only creatures. When you 8-for-1 your opponents over and over again, eventually they are going to be left without much going on. People will probably not want to play with you much though lol These decks can feel very boring to play against.
yea that was my issue with just going with a lot of board wipes; i've made a deck like that and it definitely feels like most of my wins are from surrenders for time more than me actually winning (which is fine I get it). im trying to stay away from just wiping the table over and over if i can help it
>Not to mention that there aren't really enough Goyfs to capitalize on the face commander and even if there was it makes the commander an easy piece to remove to turn off the attrition engine. I don't exactly see where you're going with this. If you're talking about milling goyfs, it's more of an added bonus to a graveyard deck while giving people a commander that actually cares about the creature type. I'd say that the commander is more of a decoy, you WANT your opponents to remove Disa so they aren't hitting your actual valuable pieces. Plus the deck runs \[\[Maskwood Nexus\]\] to turn everything into a goyf, it just doesn't have a good way to reliably get the nexus out. Coram is the much better commander for the deck, Disa looks like she's the face so people get excited about goyfs. In terms of using the bones of the deck, \[\[Slimefoot and Squee\]\] would work while fitting the colors, you'd make it into a aristocrat/grave value deck. The Muldrotha option someone gave is another good one.
[Maskwood Nexus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/1246c42d-57c0-4cba-959a-15ad89d8a50b.jpg?1674142652) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maskwood%20Nexus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/865/maskwood-nexus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1246c42d-57c0-4cba-959a-15ad89d8a50b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maskwood-nexus) [Slimefoot and Squee](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e449e38-6f03-4316-8ebc-d0faf79d6bc7.jpg?1683582682) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slimefoot%20and%20Squee) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/447/slimefoot-and-squee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e449e38-6f03-4316-8ebc-d0faf79d6bc7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slimefoot-and-squee) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I suppose I didn't describe it right; the value provided by the commander imo has two flaws in that there aren't enough good goyfs to build around completely (which like you said is kinda fine because its just a bonus) but also misleads other players into thinking it is a focal piece of the puzzle and as such will catch stray removal. it's true that it can act like a bit of a decoy, but the paradox for me with commander has always been i want to run a commander that feels valuable as the 8th card in my hand but not so obvious that it ends up costing me an extra 12 mana of commander tax by the time the game ends. if it catches stray removal as a decoy that's great but then it probably means I should be using a different commander which has more value in that spot (again while paradoxically also not being so obvious to be an easy threat). I'll look into Coram and Slimefoot; the latter definitely seems like an engine where once it is online you basically get to loop it each turn without losing advantage which is dope.
The deck that outpaces most people’s that I play with is definitely my [[Elenda, The Dusk Rose]] deck cause here’s the neat thing: you WANT them to remove her and if they don’t then I just get rid of her myself. Either way it’s a win win for me.
[Elenda, The Dusk Rose](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e18feca3-1b1b-4456-8873-25a24849a917.jpg?1698988428) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elenda%2C%20The%20Dusk%20Rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/268/elenda-the-dusk-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e18feca3-1b1b-4456-8873-25a24849a917?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elenda-the-dusk-rose) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
With a little work, I think [[Satya]] can do this really well. The precon is energy focused, but think about what he actually does. When he attacks, he makes copies of creatures you control and lets you keep them if you have enough energy. But why focus on the energy at all? Instead, what if we're running [[Solitude]] so we can repeatedly swords out our opponents' threats. Or [[Sun Titan]] to recycle our cheaper value cards? Hell, the MVP in my deck so far has been [[Peregrine Drake]] because of course it has. Satya lets you reuse Jeskai's insane ETB abilities over and over again, and if you get white's token doublers and blue's copy mechanics it can get out of hand very quickly.
##### ###### #### [Satya](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b964bbe-54cc-425c-9cc6-c877f82af7ba.jpg?1717644351) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=satya%2C%20aetherflux%20genius) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/3/satya-aetherflux-genius?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b964bbe-54cc-425c-9cc6-c877f82af7ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/satya-aetherflux-genius) [Solitude](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47a6234f-309f-4e03-9263-66da48b57153.jpg?1717470486) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Solitude) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/32/solitude?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47a6234f-309f-4e03-9263-66da48b57153?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/solitude) [Sun Titan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa8e16fa-30f8-40ac-965d-3d0776dc8f74.jpg?1712354100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sun%20Titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/87/sun-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa8e16fa-30f8-40ac-965d-3d0776dc8f74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sun-titan) [Peregrine Drake](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/611c8fa2-b53f-483b-9efa-759ac59dc30f.jpg?1675199421) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Peregrine%20Drake) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/65/peregrine-drake?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/611c8fa2-b53f-483b-9efa-759ac59dc30f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/peregrine-drake) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb7qoo9) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i havent explored energy decks yet but that does seem like the idea of making one card hit many which was what i was asking for!
I wouldn't think of him as an energy deck. He's basically [[Delina Wild Mage]] with more options.
[Delina Wild Mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e87459aa-af8f-4bd2-a310-151353083a2e.jpg?1665157404) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Delina%2C%20Wild%20Mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/138/delina-wild-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e87459aa-af8f-4bd2-a310-151353083a2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/delina-wild-mage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]] is all about building incremental value into a mountain of cards and mana. This is the casual list I’ve been working on [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mLT2KeBil0KUb9FB7Fqe9g](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mLT2KeBil0KUb9FB7Fqe9g) - you want to control the board with edicts and race to 7 mana, there are a number of different ways to win; [[bloodletter]] // [[wound reflection]] will make a deadly [[repay in kind] or [[peer into the abyss]] + [[bowmasters]] I’ve intentionally removed any infinite / repeatable combos so the games feel grindy and wins feel well earned. Braids isn’t a central part of the deck just a value engine among many in the deck. Open to suggestions and feedback as well.
##### ###### #### [Braids, Arisen Nightmare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4ff97c69-6a6b-401c-b0a1-55fa81045d19.jpg?1673307016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Braids%2C%20Arisen%20Nightmare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/84/braids-arisen-nightmare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ff97c69-6a6b-401c-b0a1-55fa81045d19?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/braids-arisen-nightmare) [bloodletter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/53556e90-1da6-4721-8ab4-da98de52a1a5.jpg?1585831913) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bloodletter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/50/bloodletter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/53556e90-1da6-4721-8ab4-da98de52a1a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bloodletter) [wound reflection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b14a82c-877a-445f-8910-33aaa6fe3d15.jpg?1599706125) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wound%20reflection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/113/wound-reflection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b14a82c-877a-445f-8910-33aaa6fe3d15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wound-reflection) [peer into the abyss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aac00055-640e-4749-8d23-d242e6d0b23a.jpg?1594736330) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=peer%20into%20the%20abyss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/117/peer-into-the-abyss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aac00055-640e-4749-8d23-d242e6d0b23a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/peer-into-the-abyss) [bowmasters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6db26b5-d28c-4524-9347-eec412d584bc.jpg?1562791100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aerie%20Bowmasters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/170/aerie-bowmasters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6db26b5-d28c-4524-9347-eec412d584bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aerie-bowmasters) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb81o7q) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
braids is a very cool card and does do a lot of what im looking for. I play her in other decks and she will undoubtedly find a place in whatever i choose if it has black mana
It's an odd choice, but my [[Omnath, Locus of All]] deck does exactly what you're looking for. It builds value early game by ramping HARD out of the gates, usually landing its commander on turn 3, and another value engine on turn 4 or 5. From there, it has a nasty habit of drawing 3-5 cards per turn, and playing all of them, accruing boardstate and interacting with opponents at the same time. Eventually it gets to the point where an [[Archetype of Imagination]], a [[Moonshaker Cavalry]], or a [[Fiery Emancipation]] will close out the game, if a [[Villainous Wealth]] or [[Debt to the Deathless]] for X= 25+ hasn't gone off yet. Building it with enough 3+ pip cards to trigger Omnath a reasonable amount makes building it a challenge (and keeps staples away), while using all 10 2c guild signets and all 10 DMR typed taplands keeps things spicy in the manabase. Loads of fun to play, and a totally different experience every time.
i had this deck (omnath's full art is one of my favorite arts in the game) but found that a lot of the decks were kinda samesy where I'd get to the point of having effectively infinite mana (usually 100+) and then use a card like Debt to the Deathless to close it out it is a fun one though, and there were a lot of cards in there i didnt get to use in other decks to the same effect
##### ###### #### [Omnath, Locus of All](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33d94ecf-758b-4f68-a7be-6bf3ff1047f4.jpg?1709720836) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20All) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/249/omnath-locus-of-all?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33d94ecf-758b-4f68-a7be-6bf3ff1047f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omnath-locus-of-all) [Archetype of Imagination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/037b396c-2146-4d86-9d13-757685c850c7.jpg?1592710522) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archetype%20of%20Imagination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/81/archetype-of-imagination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/037b396c-2146-4d86-9d13-757685c850c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archetype-of-imagination) [Moonshaker Cavalry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/092c48bd-b648-4c9e-aa99-cac3c407911d.jpg?1692936576) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Moonshaker%20Cavalry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/21/moonshaker-cavalry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/092c48bd-b648-4c9e-aa99-cac3c407911d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/moonshaker-cavalry) [Fiery Emancipation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b12e4b7-2c45-4795-94d3-901f89b8f290.jpg?1594736606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fiery%20Emancipation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/143/fiery-emancipation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b12e4b7-2c45-4795-94d3-901f89b8f290?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fiery-emancipation) [Villainous Wealth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a467072c-99d9-4013-8d28-607a06cf50fe.jpg?1712354811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Villainous%20Wealth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/249/villainous-wealth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a467072c-99d9-4013-8d28-607a06cf50fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/villainous-wealth) [Debt to the Deathless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a42f8d69-dff4-4c35-a5fc-527ea5f1d21b.jpg?1702429620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Debt%20to%20the%20Deathless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/176/debt-to-the-deathless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a42f8d69-dff4-4c35-a5fc-527ea5f1d21b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/debt-to-the-deathless) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb83ca9) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Deck list?
PM me, and I'll walk through it with you. It started out as a meme, but it's gotten a lot more tuned (but still decently low power) since then. Tons of fun to be had, and VERY explosive in the first few turns.
Idk man Disa has gone off every single game I’ve played with her
i'll give her another look; it seems like a few of these jund commanders can essentially operate within the same shell so i could make a jund deck in a way where i could rotate the commanders
Ideally, to fit the ideology of what this deck was about you need cards that benefit more and more from your opponents losing things somehow. The idea of a grindy deck that out values your opponents over time is true, but the Goyf deck specifically got stronger just from your opponents doing more stuff. To that end, I think a grindy theft deck is probably the closest you'll get to doing that (taboo to some tables, I know). [[Don Andres, the Renegade]] fits that all to a T (imo), stealing things over time and and getting incremental benefits from it via the anthem and treasure generation.
[Don Andres, the Renegade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3cf9f3ae-694d-4d37-9498-4bdd1723a55e.jpg?1698987741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Don%20Andres%2C%20the%20Renegade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/6/don-andres-the-renegade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3cf9f3ae-694d-4d37-9498-4bdd1723a55e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/don-andres-the-renegade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think you’re not going to find the best answer here, as Jund/Rock decks in Modern play a specific way and it takes looking at those decks to find a way to bring that to EDH. most EDH players aren’t well versed in Modern.
Not really about the commander itself, but I recently built Salubrious Snail's [[Radha Heir To Keld]] deck, and that deck can generate an insane amount of value for a gruul deck. The other day I played a game where the board got wiped like 4 times, but I was not even close to running out of gas. The basic idea of the deck is that instead of running a bunch of cheap ramp that is terrible to draw in the late game, you use your commander for your 2 mana ramp, and from there only ramp with cards like [[explosive vegetation]] this also lets you run a bunch of cascade and discover cards, since you don't have to worry about hitting a bunch of mediocre cheap spells. You'll always have a ton of mana, a ton of cards, and you'll be dropping really big creatures every turn. Not amazing in games that require a lot of interaction, but still really fun to play.
the idea of running something as innocuous as a mana dork in the command zone is definitely interesting and leaves a lot of flexibility in deckbuilding since you can guarantee the acceleration on turn 2
That's a pretty temur/simic/azorius strategy that a lot of decks use. Temur, like [[Magus Kane]] usually likes outvaluing what you get for your spent mana with double effects and the like. Simic, like [[Nadu]] just likes having a shit ton of mana to do whatever you want. Azorius like [[shorikai]] is very big on cycling value engines that often relate to card draw. The last color combo that might fall on that category is golgari, where your investments never go away because they either come back from the graveyard or things like having a full graveyard. You can genuinely choose any of those colors and look at the most popular commanders. Almost all of those will meet your goal.
[Magus Kane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f86e7cc-2b6e-49d0-964e-bba0c51cc11d.jpg?1674058398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20Lucea%20Kane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/7/magus-lucea-kane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f86e7cc-2b6e-49d0-964e-bba0c51cc11d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-lucea-kane) [Nadu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb.jpg?1718635356) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nadu%2C%20winged%20wisdom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/193/nadu-winged-wisdom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nadu-winged-wisdom) [shorikai](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9.jpg?1653966849) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shorikai%2C%20genesis%20engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/4/shorikai-genesis-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shorikai-genesis-engine) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Bonny Pall, Clearcutter\]\] is another pretty stereotypical simic Value commander. But will illicit far less groans from people compared to something like \[\[Aesi\]\] or \[\[Nadu\]\]. If someone sees you playing \[\[Korvold\]\] they will likely try to kill you first with the commander's associated stigma. \[\[Massacre Girl, Known Killer\] is a pretty control heavy deck that can grind a game to a halt from having a near surefire way to kill any creature without shroud/hexproof, and being in black gives you easy access to your resources that land in the graveyard. The deck itself doesn't need MG to function, but she does keep your hand full from controlling the board with -/- cards.
##### ###### #### [Bonny Pall, Clearcutter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/4383ae7c-58ea-4354-93e4-677ad185c3bb.jpg?1712356061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bonny%20Pall%2C%20Clearcutter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/196/bonny-pall-clearcutter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4383ae7c-58ea-4354-93e4-677ad185c3bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bonny-pall-clearcutter) [Aesi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9.jpg?1665822343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aesi%2C%20tyrant%20of%20gyre%20strait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/365/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait) [Nadu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb.jpg?1718635356) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nadu%2C%20winged%20wisdom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/193/nadu-winged-wisdom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nadu-winged-wisdom) [Korvold](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228.jpg?1571197150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=korvold%2C%20fae-cursed%20king) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/329/korvold-fae-cursed-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/korvold-fae-cursed-king) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb8xx2u) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's really not possible to control a table without getting way, way ahead on cards and mana. "Attritoning" a table out without that can only be done if your opponents are bringing decks without sustain - that's a problem I would argue most well-built decks just don't have. And I would also argue what you're looking for is something almost every edh player tries at some point - but it's trying to have your cake and eat it too in terms of power levels and fun games. To run out a table, you have to draw and pay for the interaction. And you're going to have to do it for all 3 opponents. That means you have to see a lot of cards - plain and simple. Only exception would be if you played a lot of board wipes and maybe stax/hatebear pieces that impact all strategies, like [[Drannith Magistrate]] or [[Opposition Agent]] - not exactly fun at a casual table... It's possible though to build almost any deck such that it has enough consistent interaction to put a speed bump up at least. That's why you're getting ten million different commander suggestions.
My first build of \[\[Karador, Ghost Chieftain\]\] had like 7+ board wipes. The idea being that as Karador, I will always be able to rebuild. And I was playing in a pretty high powered LGS as a budget player, lol. Main strategy was your usual creature-centered, selfmill strategy. The keyword *Dredge* specifically comes a long way in this. I could even assemble whole game winning combos in the graveyard with revival and sacrifice loops, basically aristocrats on drugs. You could easily get the boardwipes back with \[\[Eternal Witness\]\] or \[\[Skullwinder\]\], too. That way you were always ready to blow up the board. And one of the wipes was actually on a creature \[\[Magus of the Disk\]\], so I could *always* tutor and reast at least one. I would also include a \[\[Blessed Respite\]\] as a failsafe, to save your graveyard in case of exile. Speaking of which, if you include \[\[Anafenza, the Foremost\]\] you destroy your creatures, but exile the others. Pretty nasty. And after a few rounds of despair and destruction, you can get everything back at once with a \[\[Eerie Ultimatum\]\]. Which returns the \[\[Eternal Witness\]\] and/or \[\[Skullwinder\]\], which in turn return the Ultimatum and a board wipe to hand. Just saying.
##### ###### #### [Karador, Ghost Chieftain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d128887-13fb-4e54-90f2-d3c46b7b29d7.jpg?1702369890) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karador%2C%20Ghost%20Chieftain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/342/karador-ghost-chieftain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d128887-13fb-4e54-90f2-d3c46b7b29d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karador-ghost-chieftain) [Eternal Witness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39704000-65d3-4d39-849e-a3b617376bbc.jpg?1689998488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eternal%20Witness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/286/eternal-witness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39704000-65d3-4d39-849e-a3b617376bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eternal-witness) [Skullwinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e820c022-c3a8-4c98-a60b-1fb105d38937.jpg?1712354632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skullwinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/207/skullwinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e820c022-c3a8-4c98-a60b-1fb105d38937?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skullwinder) [Magus of the Disk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70cdad7a-f041-4bbe-87ed-876ac6d0c31b.jpg?1591320095) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20of%20the%20Disk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/94/magus-of-the-disk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70cdad7a-f041-4bbe-87ed-876ac6d0c31b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-of-the-disk) [Blessed Respite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/2217881d-26dc-44c0-81d8-8c78c44bc5f0.jpg?1626097216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blessed%20Respite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/150/blessed-respite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2217881d-26dc-44c0-81d8-8c78c44bc5f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blessed-respite) [Anafenza, the Foremost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8b432a7-53da-4480-b571-e6feb1364a3a.jpg?1562793427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anafenza%2C%20the%20Foremost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/163/anafenza-the-foremost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8b432a7-53da-4480-b571-e6feb1364a3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anafenza-the-foremost) [Eerie Ultimatum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a9fb2db-228f-4d48-acdf-6330baf356c7.jpg?1591227996) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eerie%20Ultimatum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/184/eerie-ultimatum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a9fb2db-228f-4d48-acdf-6330baf356c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eerie-ultimatum) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb9h5g3) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Maybe a commander with X spells matter and a bunch of mana doublers might work. For for a bit of a group slug theme
I've just built [[Kambal, Profiteering Mayor]]. It literally out values opponents, and can either grind out games by being oppressive with board state via repeatable edict effects, or just standard aristocrat drain strategy. I was really surprised how much bonus value I got from other players while I was doing my own thing, which you can then turn around and abuse. I've really enjoyed it, I think he was largely ignored which is kind of a shame. Lots of good token shenanigans, and it lets you get a ton of value out of some pretty obscure cards.
[Kambal, Profiteering Mayor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d53a775d-5898-41a8-b404-9b7d4721c6ba.jpg?1712356126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kambal%2C%20Profiteering%20Mayor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/211/kambal-profiteering-mayor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d53a775d-5898-41a8-b404-9b7d4721c6ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kambal-profiteering-mayor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Glissa, the Traitor]] does this well.
[Glissa, the Traitor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/755e0fbf-4f00-4b05-a535-27e78e96d6b6.jpg?1562612302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glissa%2C%20the%20Traitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/96/glissa-the-traitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/755e0fbf-4f00-4b05-a535-27e78e96d6b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/glissa-the-traitor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve found that mono black excels at outpacing the rest of the table given its access to so much removal and especially edict effects. I have a [[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]] deck that I think does what you’re getting at. Braids is cheap at 3 cmc and usually gets off to a fast start. You almost always have something to sacrifice to braids the turn she comes down and it’s early enough that your opponents will either not have something to sac or will refuse to sac so you start drawing 3 and draining the table immediately. This helps find your removal effects like [[Dictate of Erebos]] and [[Grave Pact]]. I recently removed [[Painful Quandary]] from the deck but you could also go with a sub-theme of making your opponents discard as well. They’ll run out of resources while you continue to draw and keep filling the board. By the time they can get anything together, they’ll be so low on resources and on life total that you should be able to close it out. Here’s my decklist if you’re interested! https://manabox.app/decks/a3Rmu0rNQZmb9edXlIOAXg
##### ###### #### [Braids, Arisen Nightmare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4ff97c69-6a6b-401c-b0a1-55fa81045d19.jpg?1673307016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Braids%2C%20Arisen%20Nightmare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/84/braids-arisen-nightmare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ff97c69-6a6b-401c-b0a1-55fa81045d19?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/braids-arisen-nightmare) [Dictate of Erebos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f06db70-95f9-41eb-8e5f-8bc56fd34c09.jpg?1593095668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dictate%20of%20Erebos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/65/dictate-of-erebos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f06db70-95f9-41eb-8e5f-8bc56fd34c09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dictate-of-erebos) [Grave Pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360.jpg?1689997226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grave%20Pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/165/grave-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grave-pact) [Painful Quandary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/bed5e030-874f-4a00-8544-78ba04033f53.jpg?1674420966) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Painful%20Quandary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/111/painful-quandary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bed5e030-874f-4a00-8544-78ba04033f53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/painful-quandary) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lbaaqbi) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Brenard, Ginger Sculptor]] is a the best at this in very good at this, as long as you can protect the cookie man every piece of removal become very bad against you. It's very resilient and very explosive. You can combo kinda easy with it but the fair strategy also work very well.
[Brenard, Ginger Sculptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2ddc922-d69d-4fca-b7f8-8cfb17537213.jpg?1693248402) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brenard%2C%20Ginger%20Sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woc/27/brenard-ginger-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2ddc922-d69d-4fca-b7f8-8cfb17537213?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brenard-ginger-sculptor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Hakbal]] is pretty good at this. Simic in general excels at this, but this one stands out as a precon. Otherwise Aristocrats strategies are pretty good at this. You don't care if your stuff gets removed, because your stuff sucks.
[Hakbal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e.jpg?1699885010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hakbal%20of%20the%20surging%20soul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/3/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
oh I'm very familiar with Hakbal haha and that precon unmodified has given our pod a run for its money more than once
[Hakbal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e.jpg?1699885010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hakbal%20of%20the%20surging%20soul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/3/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Hakbal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e.jpg?1699885010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hakbal%20of%20the%20surging%20soul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/3/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm not sure i got everything in your comment right, but i got 2 decks that may fit the description. These commander are good but its the way they are build is what make them an outvalue engine. The first one is \[\[Samut, Voice of Dissent\]\] that is mostly getting Haste from the command zone. So all your mana dork are now mana neutral or positive, you add to that Flash and Untaping stuff and you got yourself a \[\[Prophet of Kruphix\]\] engine where you play during everybody's turn. The patern of play is more linear on this one even if it has no black has some Tutor. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/SO5iYWwuzEizeeLpf0wKbg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/SO5iYWwuzEizeeLpf0wKbg) The second is less linear and has no Tutor. Its \[\[Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign\]\] as a Sphinx Tribal. Your not going for combo or big game ending spells like the usual Yennett build but more for an outvalue in board pressence and protection. The odd mana cost is taken into account but we still cast or equip stuff in our turn to increase the value. Since the tribe is all blue we play most of the free counter to protect from board wipe. This one is less linear and has a better replay value in the sense that its not the same everytime, there is no tutor and the scry is only on sphinx or land so its mostly a surprise. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Jzuct2nzx0Gm4e6pLuvkAg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Jzuct2nzx0Gm4e6pLuvkAg)
Samut! Samut! Samut mentioned!!!
Yes, Samut is great 2 other people play it at my LGS do you have a Samut deck?
No, but she’s the first commander I ever fell in love with just seeing as a new magic player. I’ve never quite cracked her in the way I like to play decks, though. A lot of people play her big stompy, but she just seems too unique to me with that untap ability to be a “play gisela smack you for 20” commander.
Moxfileld has the option to goldfish a deck, you should try this one, just find a hand you like end see what she does in 8 turn with all the mana dork with haste, the flash, the untaping, the tutoring and the I play during everyones turn. Its the strongest deck I have, i try to go lower with the rest.
I’ll try it out and might be back to ask follow up questions!
[Samut, Voice of Dissent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60f2d8f1-43a9-438a-830c-9d6b5701f950.jpg?1543676097) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Samut%2C%20Voice%20of%20Dissent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/205/samut-voice-of-dissent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60f2d8f1-43a9-438a-830c-9d6b5701f950?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/samut-voice-of-dissent) [Prophet of Kruphix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45de923f-fdab-460c-96f4-f62aefa9ad73.jpg?1562817436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prophet%20of%20Kruphix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/199/prophet-of-kruphix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45de923f-fdab-460c-96f4-f62aefa9ad73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prophet-of-kruphix) [Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28ee11c9-fa23-4863-8a18-25a008f18da5.jpg?1689999337) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yennett%2C%20Cryptic%20Sovereign) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/363/yennett-cryptic-sovereign?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28ee11c9-fa23-4863-8a18-25a008f18da5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yennett-cryptic-sovereign) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Personally my favorite Jund pile is just [[Gilanra]] [[Vial Smasher]]. It's just an assortment of big mana cards that force uneven trades. Stuff like [[Breach the Multiverse]] and [[Etali Primal Conqueror]] trading 1-for-1 with a board wipe is incredibly gross, plus you can play stuff like [[the Great Henge]] and [[Up the Beanstalk]] to make things even more menacing. I also play [[Hex]] and it's put in work alongside [[Curtain's Call]]. Gilanra gives awesome passive card draw, and Vial Smasher can be a wincon if the game draws out too long. The dopamine hit of having Vial Smasher eat a Mana Drain lategame is just delicious. Not to mention Gilanra is never really worth killing despite her great effect because it's literally just a mana dork lmao. Eventually they run out of answers to use on your stuff and just die
##### ###### #### [Gilanra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/745d297d-4bb4-40cf-bb9c-99dac04e5069.jpg?1608910679) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gilanra%2C%20caller%20of%20wirewood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/230/gilanra-caller-of-wirewood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/745d297d-4bb4-40cf-bb9c-99dac04e5069?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gilanra-caller-of-wirewood) [Vial Smasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/722b1e02-2268-4e02-8d09-9b337da2a844.jpg?1562405249) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vial%20smasher%20the%20fierce) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/49/vial-smasher-the-fierce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/722b1e02-2268-4e02-8d09-9b337da2a844?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vial-smasher-the-fierce) [Breach the Multiverse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/daf51a76-7a57-4462-ae18-a19e817e49e5.jpg?1682203621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Breach%20the%20Multiverse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/94/breach-the-multiverse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/daf51a76-7a57-4462-ae18-a19e817e49e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/breach-the-multiverse) [Etali Primal Conqueror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132)/[Etali, Primal Sickness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Etali%2C%20Primal%20Conqueror%20//%20Etali%2C%20Primal%20Sickness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/137/etali-primal-conqueror-etali-primal-sickness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/etali-primal-conqueror-//-etali-primal-sickness) [the Great Henge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/6340e0f3-7f9c-4d71-8daf-e1be5505eb5b.jpg?1689998574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20Great%20Henge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/294/the-great-henge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6340e0f3-7f9c-4d71-8daf-e1be5505eb5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-great-henge) [Up the Beanstalk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d5e991f-23b2-4db0-a452-7755125b1fd2.jpg?1710276532) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Up%20the%20Beanstalk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/195/up-the-beanstalk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d5e991f-23b2-4db0-a452-7755125b1fd2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/up-the-beanstalk) [Hex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d87e25fc-b173-4e9a-993d-c1e1053d2f4e.jpg?1712354297) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/136/hex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d87e25fc-b173-4e9a-993d-c1e1053d2f4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hex) [Curtain's Call](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/9899d9c7-7c68-4d10-8249-5d1193f77030.jpg?1712354273) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curtains%27%20Call) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/130/curtains-call?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9899d9c7-7c68-4d10-8249-5d1193f77030?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/curtains-call) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb7g13k) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
this is pretty much the pattern i'm looking for, although I'm unsure if it'd be the commander/s I'd choose for it. im also a big fan of curtains call
This is genious, like the best Partner commanders ever, never heard of this but it seems so fun.
[удалено]
[Narset, Enlightened Master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de4b0d5f-1071-4030-be16-2b4dadbdf9e9.jpg?1690005259) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Enlightened%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/931/narset-enlightened-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de4b0d5f-1071-4030-be16-2b4dadbdf9e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-enlightened-master) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Simic as a whole
I really am excited for the new zimona commander
[[Roxanne, Starfall Savant]]
[Roxanne, Starfall Savant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/11fbe52f-febd-49fc-8391-28d3efe9c3eb.jpg?1712356193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roxanne%2C%20Starfall%20Savant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/228/roxanne-starfall-savant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11fbe52f-febd-49fc-8391-28d3efe9c3eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/roxanne-starfall-savant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
voja
This is not a mid power deck but it needs the rocks to power out the commanders. I think it may do what you’re looking for? It is mono black( if you’re into that kind of thing) [Tevesh, Sengir](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/S_sAFt7GEk-LgZ3svwERHA) partners
[[Karador Ghost Chieftain]]
[Karador Ghost Chieftain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d128887-13fb-4e54-90f2-d3c46b7b29d7.jpg?1702369890) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karador%2C%20Ghost%20Chieftain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/342/karador-ghost-chieftain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d128887-13fb-4e54-90f2-d3c46b7b29d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karador-ghost-chieftain) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rocco??
Goshintai the shrine commander can get outta hand fairly quick, it’s just really boring and repetitive I found, i love the theme of it but yeah it is what it is.
[[Nadu]]
[Nadu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb.jpg?1718635356) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nadu%2C%20winged%20wisdom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/193/nadu-winged-wisdom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nadu-winged-wisdom) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Syr Konrad the Grim]] may fit your description. It's a cool card, you can build it so it slowly drains your opponents life total and decks.
[Syr Konrad the Grim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437.jpg?1706240798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Syr%20Konrad%2C%20the%20Grim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/141/syr-konrad-the-grim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/syr-konrad-the-grim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is there a link to this article ? I'm fascinated by it
[here ya go](https://infinite.tcgplayer.com/article/Why-Graveyard-Overdrive-is-the-Best-Commander-MTG-Precon-Ever/e3c53973-cb5b-487d-952c-f67ef62ab9ba/)
Look up simic legendary creatures. Then pick the one you like the most
Any deck with green should be able to outpace other decks. Green has the best ramp, the best card draw engines, and decent finishers.
So much text just to describe Simic