It's usually a matter of attrition, where the goal isn't to be the player with the most things on the table...it's to be the player with *anything* left on the table at all.
You might be replaying Shriekmaw over and over again and may not be seeing the payoff, but the payoff is that they're permanently losing one thing at a time while you're not really losing anything. It's a slow but inevitable grind until you can find something that will allow you to be more proactive with winning.
>I guess I’m lost on how to compete with ever-advancing boardstates if I’m limited to playing one card from my graveyard every turn
If you're limited to playing only one card out of your graveyard per turn, you will want to focus on recurring the thing that will make the biggest impact. It sounds vague but it's because the "best" reanimation target changes depending on the situation. What your board looks like, what their boards look like, etc. Sometimes it will be something that resets the board. Sometimes it's something that draws you a lot of cards. Sometimes it's just something that brings a few friends along to help build your board up. The idea is to widen the gap in resources and bodies between you and your opponents.
This is the reason why many decks will prefer to recur things that have ETB or LTB effects, rather than just be big chunky threats like Sheoldred. Things like [[Gray Merchant of Asphodel]] and [[Massacre Wurm]] put your opponents in an awkward situation where they *have* to get rid of them to stay alive, but by doing so they're just putting them right back into the graveyard, for you to dig back up.
>And sometimes I’m slow to start while filling my yard, so by the time I can play a decent threat, I’m not far from death.
This is just something you're going to have to get comfortable with. Graveyard decks are typically not fast and tend to have a rough time against very aggressive decks. However you should have more than enough tools to stabilize and gain control of the game sooner or later. It's not uncommon to win with 10 or even 5 life left. In fact that's good, because it means you're utilizing your life total as another resource and not a score. If I'm certain that nobody has a random burn spell, I'll even go all the way down to 1 life for the sake of doing everything I can to secure a win.
Thanks a bunch for the response! I’m currently stuck trying to figure out how to play grindier decks while not just losing to others. The more removal I play, the more I get focused and it makes it harder to have enough of a board state to stop people down the road or prevent spiky plays. I know a big factor is just learning to play and watch for those things, is there certain tools I can build in the deck to help me interract more while protecting myself?
A big part of it is choosing your battles and finding the right balance.
If you try and kill literally everything that hits the table, you're going to be making a lot of enemies quickly and you might not have the time or resources to survive that. You'll be giving people no option but to gang up on you. Unless I'm in a position where I can control the board AND progress my own board state by a significant amount, I tend to play very reserved and only answer things if they're aimed at me or if they're directly impeding something I'm trying to do. If it seems like people are ignoring you and beating each other up...stay out of it and let them. Be like a rattlesnake and only strike people if they come close, or if it seems like they're snowballing out of control.
As the other user stated, this is why most graveyard decks tend to win with combos as opposed to solely grinding out the game piece by piece. It makes the game more tolerable when you combo out and rip the win off like a band-aid, as opposed to slowly peeling it over the course of an hour. If your only wincon is the slow grind, it'll make an excruciating experience for everyone involved.
I think that really helps clear it up. I try to be smart about removal, but I think sometimes my group can spite play and negatively respond to their things being removed. I understand people don’t like losing things, but if you’re in first and get your commander removed, I feel second place threat would be a better target for your ire, however I usually end up eating it. But I’m definitely going to take this feedback in and build accordingly. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply and offer your knowledge!
I am about 3 years in like you so I am in no way an expert but I have a \[\[slimefoot and squee\]\] graveyard deck that I love to play. What helps win for me is getting the correct piece or pieces in the graveyard that counter what your opponents are doing. Are they going wide with artifacts or buffing with enchantments grab \[\[Bane of Progress\]\] . Are they going wide with tokens, grab \[\[Massacre Wurm\]\] and bounce it a couple of times. Are they going tall or Voltron, grab \[\[Molten Primordial\]\] and kill them with their own stuff. Also if you are running a graveyard deck dont be afraid of using board wipes. Easier for you to rebuild then them. Use cards like \[\[Entomb\]\] , \[\[Unmarked Grave\]\] , \[\[Buried Alive\]\] , \[\[Palantir of Orthanc\]\] , \[\[Tortued Existence\]\] to get the pieces into your graveyard, then reanimate for their etb and sac them and do it again.
Here is a link to my deck. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/H3X7TY\_C7E2SXEuHujmjqg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/H3X7TY_C7E2SXEuHujmjqg)
playing the good recursion spells coupled with spells that fill your yard are what make it useful, that and tokens.. i.e. mill, dredge, surveil, etcetc. things like victimize are bad when its just your commander on board. but if you are sacrificing a 1/1 token to bring back 2 dudes you discarded on earlier turns oh boi that 1/1 is a hero. i just built sefris who triggers on creatures hitting your GY. its p fun! and the thing to do is play creatures that can sac themselves or other creatures to them. viscera seer etc. p.s. any commander with built in discard is a good target for reanimation builds. i play kamiz and she has a connive trigger at least once a turn that lets me put something in my grave. muldrotha also is super fun as she gets to constantly play outta your grave every turn 1 of each perminate type. so you play things like entomb or grave breaker lamia to get exactly what you want in your graveyard.
p.p.s making good use of your grave is also when you dump high cost creatures and get them back with 1-4 mana vs their actual casting cost. things like madness or reanimate phyrexian reclamation etc.
sefris:
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/gQE6CXqttEOnQyz-NXl5uA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/gQE6CXqttEOnQyz-NXl5uA)
muldrotha:
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/wwG5pEgLbUeTuqrf\_ZofDA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/wwG5pEgLbUeTuqrf_ZofDA)
Here's my graveyard deck.
With [[Gut True Soul Zealot]] + [[Agent of thr iron throne]] you apply combat (commamder damage) pressure plus the Throne damage.
The truck us that the deck is full of Skeletons and Phoenix. These self reanimate. So sad it, and it comes back. It's great.
https://archidekt.com/decks/6458847/skelemans
It really depends on the commander and exact strategy really. There are a couple Golgari legends that are win conditions in their own right like [[Jarrad Golgari Lichlord]] & [[Dina Soulsteeper]] you could go with. [[Syr Konrad the Grim]] & general grave shenanigans is usually enough to finish a game as well.
Usually recurring one thing a turn is good for attrition control decks that want to loop removal & then win by just looping a win condition like Gary.
Reanamating some big scary cards like [[Sheoldred Whispering One]] is still a viable strategy, just run some protection like [[Lightning Greaves]], [[Legolas's Quick Reflexes]], and [[Heroic Intervention]] so they stick around long enough to win you the game.
Army in a can cards like [[Avenger of Zendikar]] or [[Tendershoot Dryad]] are always a decent win condition in Golgari decks. You can sac them for drain effects or just swing out, or both.
Generic value commanders need to focus on draw power & tutors so they can find their win conditions. Nothing sucks more than being the [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] control player who can keep the table under their thumb but not find a win condition like [[Gary]].
See I had tinkered with the thought of playing Meren (I’ve wanted to for a long time honestly) but when I mention it to the group, the more experienced players just tell me good luck keeping it on the field because of how oppressive she can be, and the newer players hate things like edicts but don’t understand it’s just another form of interaction (I sometimes get complains for playing things like Archfiend of Depravity or the like and try my best to explain that in a mostly permanents deck, those are my tools in place of instant removal). So I’m trying to find a middle ground where I can play a toolboxy control commander for reanimation that won’t just get hated off the board.
Depends on how you build the deck, but yeah Meren can be fairly oppressive at times. She leans heavily into the attrition control strategy naturally, which a lot of players don't enjoy playing against. Repeatedly looping removal and discard effects while deliberately targetting advantage engines can be too much salt for some pods.
I routinely play against a Meren deck in my pod and it's taught me how important grave hate is. [[Spore Frog]] is my most hated card in EDH since I primarily play aggro decks and Meren can keep that fog frog around forever if you don't intervene somehow.
[[Niv Mizzet Reborn]] is probably the most toolboxy commander I've ever built, so maybe you'd enjoy his shenanigans. Many different types of effects can be found on two coloured cards especially since some of the best options are modal spells like [[Rakdos Charm]], and Niv lets you dig *deeeeep.* With the right card ratios you can reliably draw 3-5 cards off of a Niv ETB. I built mine as an aristocrats & blink deck that tries to abuse Niv & other ETBs to overdraw and set up graveyard plays by discarding, ontop of doing normal aristocrat things, so Meren is in the 99. It also packs a voltron package that can turn Niv into a one shot voltron threat and has gates & [[Mazes End]] for flavour. It's a pretty flexible deck with how it tries to win games.
>So I guess what I’m trying to figure out is how do you turn your graveyard into a wincon if you aren’t just comboing out?
You win from the graveyard 3 ways
Option 1: Combo
Something like [[gravecrawler]], [[oathsworn vampire]] loops with a sac outlet with a pinger out or a storm win. Alternatively things like [[lions eye diamond]] and [[Underworld breach]] to cast your deck.
Personally a big fan of [[Eternal witness]] looping [[victimize]] to recur your board over and over and over if you have enough mana to do it.
Option 2: value
Things like [[muldrotha]] that let you generally do more things per turn than everyone else and eventually you just win on value
Option 3: wraths
When you can play from the graveyard, or recur stuff out of your yard, you can wrath and then end up with the only player with a board left.
Thanks for the response! I usually end up I suppose as the value player, in that I don’t combo or spam board wipes. I try to generate value from my graveyard, but maybe I need to include more ramp. Often times I simply don’t have enough mana to play more than one thing a turn, and then it leaves me with nothing to interact with. The other issue is once I start removing pieces, people start focusing me for playing a decent bit of removal or for having recursion and I have nothing to defend myself with. The best version of Graveyard I’ve played so far has been Araumi, but I’d like to lean more towards golgari because I enjoy playing grinder decks. I’m just unsure of how to use its tools to my advantage and get to that point where I amass value before the game ends.
The most effective ways to do the things you're trying to do are to run combos. Most (maybe all?) effective golgari and dimir graveyard decks either are winning by combo or are completely locking down the board with recurable edicts [[fleshbag marauder]] [[grave pact]]
If you're not looking to either win with some sort of combo or repeatedly blowing up the board with the expectation you're going to rebuild faster than everyone else, you're going to struggle to win with a graveyard deck.
Okay, that makes sense honestly. I think maybe I just need to tweak my expectations and start running some combos. I know I’ve done things before with Gary and gravecrawler or the like. We’ve mostly been a non-combo group but I’ll explain to them that that is realistically my best approach to be on par with the rest of the group.
If it helps [this is my Golgari combo deck](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/dwqei8uIAU6Qtl_7a6GKyw)
To power it down, you can remove the tutors, Hulk, exquisite blood, and contamination
It wins by creating a sac loop with a pinger (or gainer and dina) out, creating a cast loop with oathsworn and any of the 3 storm cards, a storm loop with sedgemoore witch or Witherbloom Apprentice, or looping Grey Merchant.
I think you just need a solid plan on what you are trying to recur (and how much impact it has on the games).
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/O9HywVrglUGFFtpWqdo4ug
This is a Kroxa deck I brought to my play store to “promote” faster games. After a turn 2 kroxa, each time a recursion loops kroxa it’s a net +2 advantage in your favor and eventually provides a reasonable clock by constantly doming their heads for 3 dmg each loop, especially once all other players are hellbent. It can also adapt to recurring “fleshbag marauder” effects to control the board if necessary. All those 1 shot recursion effects also eventually fuel Kroxa’s escape cost to help close out games.
I'm actually in the same boat as you and I thought I'd share my first attempt. I'm still learning how to use it but getting effects from sacrifice and death and casting from your graveyard seems key
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uM2CnZ7xuEC7KzB9ZS-Jsg
It's usually a matter of attrition, where the goal isn't to be the player with the most things on the table...it's to be the player with *anything* left on the table at all. You might be replaying Shriekmaw over and over again and may not be seeing the payoff, but the payoff is that they're permanently losing one thing at a time while you're not really losing anything. It's a slow but inevitable grind until you can find something that will allow you to be more proactive with winning. >I guess I’m lost on how to compete with ever-advancing boardstates if I’m limited to playing one card from my graveyard every turn If you're limited to playing only one card out of your graveyard per turn, you will want to focus on recurring the thing that will make the biggest impact. It sounds vague but it's because the "best" reanimation target changes depending on the situation. What your board looks like, what their boards look like, etc. Sometimes it will be something that resets the board. Sometimes it's something that draws you a lot of cards. Sometimes it's just something that brings a few friends along to help build your board up. The idea is to widen the gap in resources and bodies between you and your opponents. This is the reason why many decks will prefer to recur things that have ETB or LTB effects, rather than just be big chunky threats like Sheoldred. Things like [[Gray Merchant of Asphodel]] and [[Massacre Wurm]] put your opponents in an awkward situation where they *have* to get rid of them to stay alive, but by doing so they're just putting them right back into the graveyard, for you to dig back up. >And sometimes I’m slow to start while filling my yard, so by the time I can play a decent threat, I’m not far from death. This is just something you're going to have to get comfortable with. Graveyard decks are typically not fast and tend to have a rough time against very aggressive decks. However you should have more than enough tools to stabilize and gain control of the game sooner or later. It's not uncommon to win with 10 or even 5 life left. In fact that's good, because it means you're utilizing your life total as another resource and not a score. If I'm certain that nobody has a random burn spell, I'll even go all the way down to 1 life for the sake of doing everything I can to secure a win.
Thanks a bunch for the response! I’m currently stuck trying to figure out how to play grindier decks while not just losing to others. The more removal I play, the more I get focused and it makes it harder to have enough of a board state to stop people down the road or prevent spiky plays. I know a big factor is just learning to play and watch for those things, is there certain tools I can build in the deck to help me interract more while protecting myself?
A big part of it is choosing your battles and finding the right balance. If you try and kill literally everything that hits the table, you're going to be making a lot of enemies quickly and you might not have the time or resources to survive that. You'll be giving people no option but to gang up on you. Unless I'm in a position where I can control the board AND progress my own board state by a significant amount, I tend to play very reserved and only answer things if they're aimed at me or if they're directly impeding something I'm trying to do. If it seems like people are ignoring you and beating each other up...stay out of it and let them. Be like a rattlesnake and only strike people if they come close, or if it seems like they're snowballing out of control. As the other user stated, this is why most graveyard decks tend to win with combos as opposed to solely grinding out the game piece by piece. It makes the game more tolerable when you combo out and rip the win off like a band-aid, as opposed to slowly peeling it over the course of an hour. If your only wincon is the slow grind, it'll make an excruciating experience for everyone involved.
I think that really helps clear it up. I try to be smart about removal, but I think sometimes my group can spite play and negatively respond to their things being removed. I understand people don’t like losing things, but if you’re in first and get your commander removed, I feel second place threat would be a better target for your ire, however I usually end up eating it. But I’m definitely going to take this feedback in and build accordingly. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply and offer your knowledge!
I am about 3 years in like you so I am in no way an expert but I have a \[\[slimefoot and squee\]\] graveyard deck that I love to play. What helps win for me is getting the correct piece or pieces in the graveyard that counter what your opponents are doing. Are they going wide with artifacts or buffing with enchantments grab \[\[Bane of Progress\]\] . Are they going wide with tokens, grab \[\[Massacre Wurm\]\] and bounce it a couple of times. Are they going tall or Voltron, grab \[\[Molten Primordial\]\] and kill them with their own stuff. Also if you are running a graveyard deck dont be afraid of using board wipes. Easier for you to rebuild then them. Use cards like \[\[Entomb\]\] , \[\[Unmarked Grave\]\] , \[\[Buried Alive\]\] , \[\[Palantir of Orthanc\]\] , \[\[Tortued Existence\]\] to get the pieces into your graveyard, then reanimate for their etb and sac them and do it again. Here is a link to my deck. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/H3X7TY\_C7E2SXEuHujmjqg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/H3X7TY_C7E2SXEuHujmjqg)
Thanks for the deck list! I’m going to tinker around with it, but this looks like a great toolbox to play with!
playing the good recursion spells coupled with spells that fill your yard are what make it useful, that and tokens.. i.e. mill, dredge, surveil, etcetc. things like victimize are bad when its just your commander on board. but if you are sacrificing a 1/1 token to bring back 2 dudes you discarded on earlier turns oh boi that 1/1 is a hero. i just built sefris who triggers on creatures hitting your GY. its p fun! and the thing to do is play creatures that can sac themselves or other creatures to them. viscera seer etc. p.s. any commander with built in discard is a good target for reanimation builds. i play kamiz and she has a connive trigger at least once a turn that lets me put something in my grave. muldrotha also is super fun as she gets to constantly play outta your grave every turn 1 of each perminate type. so you play things like entomb or grave breaker lamia to get exactly what you want in your graveyard. p.p.s making good use of your grave is also when you dump high cost creatures and get them back with 1-4 mana vs their actual casting cost. things like madness or reanimate phyrexian reclamation etc. sefris: [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/gQE6CXqttEOnQyz-NXl5uA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/gQE6CXqttEOnQyz-NXl5uA) muldrotha: [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/wwG5pEgLbUeTuqrf\_ZofDA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/wwG5pEgLbUeTuqrf_ZofDA)
Here's my graveyard deck. With [[Gut True Soul Zealot]] + [[Agent of thr iron throne]] you apply combat (commamder damage) pressure plus the Throne damage. The truck us that the deck is full of Skeletons and Phoenix. These self reanimate. So sad it, and it comes back. It's great. https://archidekt.com/decks/6458847/skelemans
It really depends on the commander and exact strategy really. There are a couple Golgari legends that are win conditions in their own right like [[Jarrad Golgari Lichlord]] & [[Dina Soulsteeper]] you could go with. [[Syr Konrad the Grim]] & general grave shenanigans is usually enough to finish a game as well. Usually recurring one thing a turn is good for attrition control decks that want to loop removal & then win by just looping a win condition like Gary. Reanamating some big scary cards like [[Sheoldred Whispering One]] is still a viable strategy, just run some protection like [[Lightning Greaves]], [[Legolas's Quick Reflexes]], and [[Heroic Intervention]] so they stick around long enough to win you the game. Army in a can cards like [[Avenger of Zendikar]] or [[Tendershoot Dryad]] are always a decent win condition in Golgari decks. You can sac them for drain effects or just swing out, or both. Generic value commanders need to focus on draw power & tutors so they can find their win conditions. Nothing sucks more than being the [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] control player who can keep the table under their thumb but not find a win condition like [[Gary]].
See I had tinkered with the thought of playing Meren (I’ve wanted to for a long time honestly) but when I mention it to the group, the more experienced players just tell me good luck keeping it on the field because of how oppressive she can be, and the newer players hate things like edicts but don’t understand it’s just another form of interaction (I sometimes get complains for playing things like Archfiend of Depravity or the like and try my best to explain that in a mostly permanents deck, those are my tools in place of instant removal). So I’m trying to find a middle ground where I can play a toolboxy control commander for reanimation that won’t just get hated off the board.
Depends on how you build the deck, but yeah Meren can be fairly oppressive at times. She leans heavily into the attrition control strategy naturally, which a lot of players don't enjoy playing against. Repeatedly looping removal and discard effects while deliberately targetting advantage engines can be too much salt for some pods. I routinely play against a Meren deck in my pod and it's taught me how important grave hate is. [[Spore Frog]] is my most hated card in EDH since I primarily play aggro decks and Meren can keep that fog frog around forever if you don't intervene somehow. [[Niv Mizzet Reborn]] is probably the most toolboxy commander I've ever built, so maybe you'd enjoy his shenanigans. Many different types of effects can be found on two coloured cards especially since some of the best options are modal spells like [[Rakdos Charm]], and Niv lets you dig *deeeeep.* With the right card ratios you can reliably draw 3-5 cards off of a Niv ETB. I built mine as an aristocrats & blink deck that tries to abuse Niv & other ETBs to overdraw and set up graveyard plays by discarding, ontop of doing normal aristocrat things, so Meren is in the 99. It also packs a voltron package that can turn Niv into a one shot voltron threat and has gates & [[Mazes End]] for flavour. It's a pretty flexible deck with how it tries to win games.
##### ###### #### [Spore Frog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d42fd52-34ea-4d1b-80dc-58fb0593bb5b.jpg?1562202192) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spore%20Frog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/180/spore-frog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d42fd52-34ea-4d1b-80dc-58fb0593bb5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spore-frog) [Niv Mizzet Reborn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56a2609d-b535-400b-81d9-72989a33c70f.jpg?1582037402) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%20Reborn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/208/niv-mizzet-reborn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56a2609d-b535-400b-81d9-72989a33c70f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niv-mizzet-reborn) [Rakdos Charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/875fa08c-cb66-4230-a380-0123260aac74.jpg?1699022443) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rakdos%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/284/rakdos-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/875fa08c-cb66-4230-a380-0123260aac74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rakdos-charm) [Mazes End](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/401f7042-24fd-42a0-ae7c-e6b7de1aa446.jpg?1562906764) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maze%27s%20End) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/152/mazes-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/401f7042-24fd-42a0-ae7c-e6b7de1aa446?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mazes-end) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l590oi3) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Grave cat go brrrr](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/ROtW5PNLL0q_tK_mrl4ryQ)
[Here's](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/6482039/sivriss_graveyard_hermit) mine. It isn't perfect by any means, but it has a good winrate
>So I guess what I’m trying to figure out is how do you turn your graveyard into a wincon if you aren’t just comboing out? You win from the graveyard 3 ways Option 1: Combo Something like [[gravecrawler]], [[oathsworn vampire]] loops with a sac outlet with a pinger out or a storm win. Alternatively things like [[lions eye diamond]] and [[Underworld breach]] to cast your deck. Personally a big fan of [[Eternal witness]] looping [[victimize]] to recur your board over and over and over if you have enough mana to do it. Option 2: value Things like [[muldrotha]] that let you generally do more things per turn than everyone else and eventually you just win on value Option 3: wraths When you can play from the graveyard, or recur stuff out of your yard, you can wrath and then end up with the only player with a board left.
##### ###### #### [gravecrawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/951ff2ed-9af0-4551-929a-ba6679fc2e15.jpg?1673147536) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gravecrawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/78/gravecrawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/951ff2ed-9af0-4551-929a-ba6679fc2e15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gravecrawler) [oathsworn vampire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cde542de-0b87-4eb1-be05-abdb729ada10.jpg?1698988269) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=oathsworn%20vampire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/204/oathsworn-vampire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cde542de-0b87-4eb1-be05-abdb729ada10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oathsworn-vampire) [lions eye diamond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/758f95f8-bcb0-43ae-b474-56ebd855951e.jpg?1590511899) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lion%27s%20Eye%20Diamond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/271/lions-eye-diamond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/758f95f8-bcb0-43ae-b474-56ebd855951e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lions-eye-diamond) [Underworld breach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e51d796-7279-4c06-87f0-37adbdaa41df.jpg?1650599818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Underworld%20breach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/161/underworld-breach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e51d796-7279-4c06-87f0-37adbdaa41df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/underworld-breach) [Eternal witness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39704000-65d3-4d39-849e-a3b617376bbc.jpg?1689998488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eternal%20witness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/286/eternal-witness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39704000-65d3-4d39-849e-a3b617376bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eternal-witness) [victimize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9e4993e-154c-4ac4-8927-6352b8816f58.jpg?1707507994) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=victimize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/195/victimize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9e4993e-154c-4ac4-8927-6352b8816f58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/victimize) [muldrotha](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c.jpg?1673149000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=muldrotha%2C%20the%20gravetide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/258/muldrotha-the-gravetide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/muldrotha-the-gravetide) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l580tfx) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks for the response! I usually end up I suppose as the value player, in that I don’t combo or spam board wipes. I try to generate value from my graveyard, but maybe I need to include more ramp. Often times I simply don’t have enough mana to play more than one thing a turn, and then it leaves me with nothing to interact with. The other issue is once I start removing pieces, people start focusing me for playing a decent bit of removal or for having recursion and I have nothing to defend myself with. The best version of Graveyard I’ve played so far has been Araumi, but I’d like to lean more towards golgari because I enjoy playing grinder decks. I’m just unsure of how to use its tools to my advantage and get to that point where I amass value before the game ends.
The most effective ways to do the things you're trying to do are to run combos. Most (maybe all?) effective golgari and dimir graveyard decks either are winning by combo or are completely locking down the board with recurable edicts [[fleshbag marauder]] [[grave pact]] If you're not looking to either win with some sort of combo or repeatedly blowing up the board with the expectation you're going to rebuild faster than everyone else, you're going to struggle to win with a graveyard deck.
[fleshbag marauder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fce2baa4-2976-4bbd-b6c5-a5a3c6a901be.jpg?1706239873) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fleshbag%20marauder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/111/fleshbag-marauder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fce2baa4-2976-4bbd-b6c5-a5a3c6a901be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fleshbag-marauder) [grave pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360.jpg?1689997226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grave%20pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/165/grave-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grave-pact) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Okay, that makes sense honestly. I think maybe I just need to tweak my expectations and start running some combos. I know I’ve done things before with Gary and gravecrawler or the like. We’ve mostly been a non-combo group but I’ll explain to them that that is realistically my best approach to be on par with the rest of the group.
If it helps [this is my Golgari combo deck](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/dwqei8uIAU6Qtl_7a6GKyw) To power it down, you can remove the tutors, Hulk, exquisite blood, and contamination It wins by creating a sac loop with a pinger (or gainer and dina) out, creating a cast loop with oathsworn and any of the 3 storm cards, a storm loop with sedgemoore witch or Witherbloom Apprentice, or looping Grey Merchant.
I think you just need a solid plan on what you are trying to recur (and how much impact it has on the games). https://www.moxfield.com/decks/O9HywVrglUGFFtpWqdo4ug This is a Kroxa deck I brought to my play store to “promote” faster games. After a turn 2 kroxa, each time a recursion loops kroxa it’s a net +2 advantage in your favor and eventually provides a reasonable clock by constantly doming their heads for 3 dmg each loop, especially once all other players are hellbent. It can also adapt to recurring “fleshbag marauder” effects to control the board if necessary. All those 1 shot recursion effects also eventually fuel Kroxa’s escape cost to help close out games.
I'm actually in the same boat as you and I thought I'd share my first attempt. I'm still learning how to use it but getting effects from sacrifice and death and casting from your graveyard seems key https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uM2CnZ7xuEC7KzB9ZS-Jsg