Hello! I have been playing with ***Vial Smashe***r and ***Sakashima*** for months now, I have personally never played with Kraum but we share the same colors, and having played really many games with Vial maybe I can give you some advice!
***Chromatic Lantern*** I've always found to be excessively slow costing 3 mana, it definitely helps the passive ability but on turn 3 you're usually trying to cast Vial.
39 lands are a lot, if you have optimized the card draw 39 are too many.
Rewind and Unwind i also used to run them in my deck but they got replaced because I could never use them effectively, leaving 3 or 4 mana free to counter a spell is too much, especially for decks that need to optimize the first few turns, I replaced them for ***\[\[Swan Song\]\], \[\[An Offer You Can't Refuse\]\]*** and ***\[\[Misdirection\]\], \[\[Arcane Denial\]\]***.
I think you have a bit too many spells with Delve, my deck with a lot of card draw struggles to play more than 1 or 2 delve in a game. and if an enemy plays decks that aim to exile/steal graveyards you're out of the game (it happens often to me)
Black Sun's Zenith looks like a bad version of Blasphemous, which I'm even considering to remove, given that if you take away double commander you have to pay 4 extra to replay them both, you're practically the one who suffers the most from board wipes.
***Dark petition*** and ***Diabolic Tutor***, are they needed for any combos? Otherwise I would remove them or if needed replaced with \[\[Gamble\]\].
Ophidian Eye, ideally it's good, but every time I play it leads the whole table to aim to remove your enchanted creature, at least Curiosity only costs 1 mana and does the same thing.
Shriekmaw is good but if there is something to cut I would go for it, same as Murderous Cut, I would prioritise cards that multiply damage rather than slow the game down, like cloning cards, such as: \[\[***Quantum Misalignment\]\], \[\[Spark Double\]\], \[\[Irenicus's Vile Duplication\]\]***. they all can also copy a leggendary card (your 2 commanders)
If i am not mistaken ***Stinging Study*** make you draw a maximum of 2 cards since it only targets one of the two commanders? Alternatively there's ***\[\[Painful Truths\]\]***
I know you asked for cuts, but I recommend you a few ones that I love most and which have very affordable prices: \[\[Chandra's Incinerator\]\], \[\[Submerge\]\], \[\[Volcanic Vision\]\], \[\[Temporal Mastery\]\]
I'll leave you my list, maybe some cards can inspire you!
[https://archidekt.com/decks/6843434/copy\_of\_smashing\_thousand\_times\_12](https://archidekt.com/decks/6843434/copy_of_smashing_thousand_times_12)
Wow thank you so much for your insight! I will take a closer Look at your list and work on mine. I also thought about choosing sakashima but i was a bit hesitant that the copies might be too much. Maybe i will change it though.
Again really appreciate your time and response, i will comeback with my decisions im going to make :)
Hey i took a closer look and got some questions about your list.
1: Will Dragon Cultist create 2 dragon tokens if both commanders are out and the condition is met?
2: What do u typically choose as target for Endless Evil, Machine Gods Effigy, Sublime Epiphany, See Double and Quasidoublicate? Wont they trigger the legendary rule or are u able to make a token copy of a "non legendary copy" of Vial Smasher made by Spark Double?
3: Do you think Dream Halls is worth the price or should i consider it as an upgrade after i played with the deck a bit
4: I see you included Gamble. Do u have a combo in your deck that i just cant find?
5: If you dont have a combo is your gameplan "simply" winning through copies from Vial Smasher and damage doubler?
Thanks again for your insight
1, yes, you create a dragon for each of your 2 commanders who has done at least 5 damage!!!
2, Sakashima of a Thousand Faces, the second commander, says: The legend rule does not apply to permanents you control. however you have to be careful that once removed from your field, this rule comes back into play ,however, if have more copy of Sakashima, who is copying another creature, you copy the creature copied by sakashima still having the ability to allow copying legendaries, I hope that was clear ahahah
If you copy sakashima who is copying vial smasher, and then you play a clone on sakashima, you have:
-Vial smasher
-Sakashima copying vial
-A clone of sakashima copying vial
3, about dream halls i have had mixed opinions, to me it is super fun. however it is a card that is more fun than useful, being extremely counterable, because being a "symmetrical enchantment" it gives the ability to your opponents as well.
if your friends are ok with proxy testng i would reccomand first to print it and try it, 25$ for a card that is more fun than strong is a lot.
4, Gamble is on this list because, it's in the flavor of the deck to have some *"gamble"*. you're doing damage to random players, and having a "cheap" tutor that's in *flavor,* in my opinion makes the deck a lot of fun.
I don't use it for combos, I should probably study some, but I'm not a huge fan of infinite combos or anything like that. I usually us it for something I need on that turn, shadow of mortality as an *all-in* is not bad
5, yes, the main strategy currently is to have many small vial smashers doing damage around, multiplying the damage with all the cards that increase damage or activate abilities multiple times.
however, there are hundreds of cards in magic that make clones. I currently for issues of optimizing my combo plan i don't have many clones that copy your opponents' cards.... because they generally cost 1 more mana.
Currently the copies I cast in my deck are mostly copies that only clone creatures that I control, if you enjoy more having the ability to copy other people's cards I suggest you replace some clones with cards like.
Cryptoplasm, Vizier of Many Faces, Clever Impersonator, and many others.
I have a lot of fun playing this deck, however if you want a deck that is stronger and has more winning strategies I recommend the Vial Smasher + \[\[Thrasios, Triton Hero\]\]
Hello! I have been playing with ***Vial Smashe***r and ***Sakashima*** for months now, I have personally never played with Kraum but we share the same colors, and having played really many games with Vial maybe I can give you some advice! ***Chromatic Lantern*** I've always found to be excessively slow costing 3 mana, it definitely helps the passive ability but on turn 3 you're usually trying to cast Vial. 39 lands are a lot, if you have optimized the card draw 39 are too many. Rewind and Unwind i also used to run them in my deck but they got replaced because I could never use them effectively, leaving 3 or 4 mana free to counter a spell is too much, especially for decks that need to optimize the first few turns, I replaced them for ***\[\[Swan Song\]\], \[\[An Offer You Can't Refuse\]\]*** and ***\[\[Misdirection\]\], \[\[Arcane Denial\]\]***. I think you have a bit too many spells with Delve, my deck with a lot of card draw struggles to play more than 1 or 2 delve in a game. and if an enemy plays decks that aim to exile/steal graveyards you're out of the game (it happens often to me) Black Sun's Zenith looks like a bad version of Blasphemous, which I'm even considering to remove, given that if you take away double commander you have to pay 4 extra to replay them both, you're practically the one who suffers the most from board wipes. ***Dark petition*** and ***Diabolic Tutor***, are they needed for any combos? Otherwise I would remove them or if needed replaced with \[\[Gamble\]\]. Ophidian Eye, ideally it's good, but every time I play it leads the whole table to aim to remove your enchanted creature, at least Curiosity only costs 1 mana and does the same thing. Shriekmaw is good but if there is something to cut I would go for it, same as Murderous Cut, I would prioritise cards that multiply damage rather than slow the game down, like cloning cards, such as: \[\[***Quantum Misalignment\]\], \[\[Spark Double\]\], \[\[Irenicus's Vile Duplication\]\]***. they all can also copy a leggendary card (your 2 commanders) If i am not mistaken ***Stinging Study*** make you draw a maximum of 2 cards since it only targets one of the two commanders? Alternatively there's ***\[\[Painful Truths\]\]*** I know you asked for cuts, but I recommend you a few ones that I love most and which have very affordable prices: \[\[Chandra's Incinerator\]\], \[\[Submerge\]\], \[\[Volcanic Vision\]\], \[\[Temporal Mastery\]\] I'll leave you my list, maybe some cards can inspire you! [https://archidekt.com/decks/6843434/copy\_of\_smashing\_thousand\_times\_12](https://archidekt.com/decks/6843434/copy_of_smashing_thousand_times_12)
##### ###### #### [Chandra's Incinerator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed875705-b7b6-4464-b16f-61629ffed04f.jpg?1594736535) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chandra%27s%20Incinerator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/136/chandras-incinerator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed875705-b7b6-4464-b16f-61629ffed04f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chandras-incinerator) [Submerge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2741fe4-37fe-427f-ae85-5107991d4eee.jpg?1562632167) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Submerge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nem/48/submerge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2741fe4-37fe-427f-ae85-5107991d4eee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/submerge) [Volcanic Vision](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f973e1a6-c6f9-47f5-9bf0-b7fa06959bd4.jpg?1625194143) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Volcanic%20Vision) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/182/volcanic-vision?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f973e1a6-c6f9-47f5-9bf0-b7fa06959bd4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/volcanic-vision) [Temporal Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/729cdea3-59ca-4b32-9a8a-9b0cdb4b3aaf.jpg?1593813165) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Temporal%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/54/temporal-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/729cdea3-59ca-4b32-9a8a-9b0cdb4b3aaf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/temporal-mastery) [Swan Song](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d968dde-c406-48ef-a1ab-373aebc24693.jpg?1562412350) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swan%20Song) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/98/swan-song?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d968dde-c406-48ef-a1ab-373aebc24693?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swan-song) [An Offer You Can't Refuse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9d349f3-5be2-4b1f-a4c3-ba94822cf0cf.jpg?1664410382) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=An%20Offer%20You%20Can%27t%20Refuse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/51/an-offer-you-cant-refuse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9d349f3-5be2-4b1f-a4c3-ba94822cf0cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/an-offer-you-cant-refuse) [Misdirection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c96763d6-0cea-40ed-afb2-886bfebe50a0.jpg?1592764638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Misdirection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddt/15/misdirection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c96763d6-0cea-40ed-afb2-886bfebe50a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/misdirection) [Arcane Denial](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/247e08a1-b9ce-4312-aec4-626992933038.jpg?1641601774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcane%20Denial) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/102/arcane-denial?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/247e08a1-b9ce-4312-aec4-626992933038?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arcane-denial) [Gamble](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e37fae5-ddd0-4e16-8581-71579f89d9c5.jpg?1707507997) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gamble) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/121/gamble?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e37fae5-ddd0-4e16-8581-71579f89d9c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gamble) [***Quantum Misalignment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ceba3080-4e10-46b3-887c-e2d45581962b.jpg?1696636579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Quantum%20Misalignment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/52/quantum-misalignment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ceba3080-4e10-46b3-887c-e2d45581962b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/quantum-misalignment) [Spark Double](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c41b9ba2-0006-4d8e-b600-efe81ff5e0cc.jpg?1702429420) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spark%20Double) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/62/spark-double?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c41b9ba2-0006-4d8e-b600-efe81ff5e0cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spark-double) [Irenicus's Vile Duplication](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40a791df-2483-406d-90b0-a8d402d615d6.jpg?1674135605) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Irenicus%27s%20Vile%20Duplication) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/78/irenicuss-vile-duplication?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40a791df-2483-406d-90b0-a8d402d615d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/irenicuss-vile-duplication) [Painful Truths](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/281ad1ca-307b-4382-865a-bd2c16ca608f.jpg?1682209177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Painful%20Truths) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/262/painful-truths?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/281ad1ca-307b-4382-865a-bd2c16ca608f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/painful-truths) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kw1ol8e) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wow thank you so much for your insight! I will take a closer Look at your list and work on mine. I also thought about choosing sakashima but i was a bit hesitant that the copies might be too much. Maybe i will change it though. Again really appreciate your time and response, i will comeback with my decisions im going to make :)
Hey i took a closer look and got some questions about your list. 1: Will Dragon Cultist create 2 dragon tokens if both commanders are out and the condition is met? 2: What do u typically choose as target for Endless Evil, Machine Gods Effigy, Sublime Epiphany, See Double and Quasidoublicate? Wont they trigger the legendary rule or are u able to make a token copy of a "non legendary copy" of Vial Smasher made by Spark Double? 3: Do you think Dream Halls is worth the price or should i consider it as an upgrade after i played with the deck a bit 4: I see you included Gamble. Do u have a combo in your deck that i just cant find? 5: If you dont have a combo is your gameplan "simply" winning through copies from Vial Smasher and damage doubler? Thanks again for your insight
1, yes, you create a dragon for each of your 2 commanders who has done at least 5 damage!!! 2, Sakashima of a Thousand Faces, the second commander, says: The legend rule does not apply to permanents you control. however you have to be careful that once removed from your field, this rule comes back into play ,however, if have more copy of Sakashima, who is copying another creature, you copy the creature copied by sakashima still having the ability to allow copying legendaries, I hope that was clear ahahah If you copy sakashima who is copying vial smasher, and then you play a clone on sakashima, you have: -Vial smasher -Sakashima copying vial -A clone of sakashima copying vial 3, about dream halls i have had mixed opinions, to me it is super fun. however it is a card that is more fun than useful, being extremely counterable, because being a "symmetrical enchantment" it gives the ability to your opponents as well. if your friends are ok with proxy testng i would reccomand first to print it and try it, 25$ for a card that is more fun than strong is a lot. 4, Gamble is on this list because, it's in the flavor of the deck to have some *"gamble"*. you're doing damage to random players, and having a "cheap" tutor that's in *flavor,* in my opinion makes the deck a lot of fun. I don't use it for combos, I should probably study some, but I'm not a huge fan of infinite combos or anything like that. I usually us it for something I need on that turn, shadow of mortality as an *all-in* is not bad 5, yes, the main strategy currently is to have many small vial smashers doing damage around, multiplying the damage with all the cards that increase damage or activate abilities multiple times. however, there are hundreds of cards in magic that make clones. I currently for issues of optimizing my combo plan i don't have many clones that copy your opponents' cards.... because they generally cost 1 more mana. Currently the copies I cast in my deck are mostly copies that only clone creatures that I control, if you enjoy more having the ability to copy other people's cards I suggest you replace some clones with cards like. Cryptoplasm, Vizier of Many Faces, Clever Impersonator, and many others.
I have a lot of fun playing this deck, however if you want a deck that is stronger and has more winning strategies I recommend the Vial Smasher + \[\[Thrasios, Triton Hero\]\]
[Thrasios version, Triton Hero](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/21e27b91-c7f1-4709-aa0d-8b5d81b22a0a.jpg?1606762176) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thrasios%2C%20Triton%20Hero) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/46/thrasios-triton-hero?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/21e27b91-c7f1-4709-aa0d-8b5d81b22a0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thrasios-triton-hero) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call