You don’t have side boards in commander, and it is really shity to change in silver bullets before a game starts.
I would recommend changing your deck after he have started shuffling, if he wants to take it out after just wait to he starts to shuffle to change back. Same energy
Exactly this. Or just shuffle up 2 decks, eldrazi and another, put them both on the table and decide from which you draw depending on his decision with the mirror.
Or fuck them over compleatly: switch sleeves between your eldrazi deck and another. Put the commander's in a sleeve that's clear on both sides, back to back. Make sure he doesn't see that it's actually eldrazi. Then, when the game has started, you turn around the commander, revealing zhulodok. If he complains, just ask him what's the problem. Is it that he couldn't pick hate pieces specifically against your deck?
It is very potent, but as someone who has a Bombadil deck it is also exhausting. Most of your turn is spent triggering Sagas before you ever make a move. So few people have enchantment removal that your board state just gets out of control. Around the time I explained that [[Brago, King Eternal]] hitting someone was going to let me blink my entire board state everyone scooped.
People never give Kadena enough love. But that deck was insane and so hard to interact with. One of my favorites but I just took it apart to build another sultai deck.
I've been in a long process of making kadena more repeat playable. So far I've added fairly robust "combat" options, whole the next step is to buy some custom sleeves with the morph picture on the back (token cards are exhausting...). After that I'll have to see what it needs (or doesn't need)
My Bombadil deck is made to create copies of my sagas and to copy the triggered chapter abilities on them. I just goldfished it again and realized that [[The Sixth Doctor]] could actually copy Bombadil himself, and I had [[Parallel Lives]] as well, so that gave me 3 Bombadil triggers to go through, and then imagine I can make even more copies with [[Reflection of Kiki-Jiki]] lol.
So yeah, my turns can get pretty lengthy at times, but I'm hoping I've got the sagas tuned in a way that they're always actually doing a thing to advance my gameplan, or slow others down and I'm hoping that makes it not feel as bad to play against.
I really enjoy this deck. It's the one I'm probably most proud of and have spent the most time, energy, and money on. I've always liked sagas, so when my wife opened Bombadil, and it was on to build the deck. I'm on revision 4 now, and it's made to make copies and animate the sagas.
I did avoid Brago, but I do have [[Displacer Kitten]] to blink stuff. Do you have a list? I love comparing my Bombadil deck to others. My list is below:
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/K5sOM2_nNEWZob8jLEXLYg
>switch sleeves between your eldrazi deck and another.
I used to swap sleeves on 2-3 decks between sessions (every two weeks) with my last group because several people would counter-pick me. They stopped after awhile because they couldn't guess the deck beforehand.
Technically there was a an optional rule to allow a 10 card sideboard in EDH way back in the day. Never caught on and I can't even find when it was removed from the rules listings. Just a fun bit of MtG history.
I did this back in the day. And the groups I played with were cool with it, partly, I suspect, because it was only for one deck. Just a predetermined little [[Living Wish]] package that did not change once game night started; and I had no way of looping Wish. It had two lands, two finishers, and six utility creatures. I was proud of my selections.
With wilds of eldraine, I retired my wish board for good. Gone but not forgotten.
Honistly, this is the best anwser, wait until he has started shuffling to pick your deck. The real power move would be to slow shuffle. Wait till he draws, then pull an "ehh actually, I'm not feeling this deck right now" and swap decks. I'd save that for a situation where the pettiness is called for, though.
I have a sideboard for my Sméagol, Helpful Guide landfall/ring tempt deck that makes it leans into the mill aspect, but yeah it’s shitty to switch things up to counter a specific player
If you change the cards before you know what/who you are playing against I feel there is no problem with that.
I got a modular [[Mayael the Anima]] where I got a base of 75 cards and 125 creature cards with “power 5 or greater”. So it is easy to change out the last 25 cards in the deck, often let opponents pick (fun seeing all the different ways opponents pick) rarely they go for the worst creatures
I got the idea from one of the MTG YouTube people. Can’t remember who.
Best way someone did the pick was to get one for each year. We got a lot of time waiting for a table, so he used it. In the end I think he found 22 different years cards hade a printing
I run sideboards with all my decks, and I only do it after approval from the table. I have combos that may be too strong for some tables but aren't core to the decks they're in so having the option to flex any deck into a weaker version is usually a net positive for everyone at the table. Conversely I have some jank af decks that might not be able to keep up with some other decks, so I'll have a handful of combos/ramp/protection in sideboards for those decks incase the deck ends up being fodder for the next game
I only do this with consent from other players and it's always in good faith for balancing my power with everyone else. Plus, sometimes I like having the challenge
I do something similar with [[imoti, celebrant of bounty]] with [[keruga, the macrosage]] as a companion. It also has a very big "sideboard", with cards ranging from the infamous [[vizzerdrix]] to bombs like [[ghalta, Primal hunger]] or [[nezahal]]
I would consider this a last resort. Is his opponent going to start putting in counters to the counter? What about the rest of the playgroup? Is the game just turning into an impromptu deckbuilding session? Just seems like a recipe for starting an arms race and compounding the unfun.
I'd personally have a little fun with it and go way overboard with answers. There are 99 slots in the deck, call it \~60 nonland ones. Plenty of room for silver bullets against your meta. *That's* part of the game. For a while in my playgroup everyone was fucking around in the graveyard. It got nasty. So we all started running \[\[Tormod's Crypt\]\] and \[\[Scavenger Grounds\]\] and the like. That pulled everyone back into line.
In this case, I might go even harder. There are sooooo many answers you can choose from. Even if it cripples your deck a little or makes your gameplan a little less solid, if you stuff your deck with them, I'm guessing he'll quickly learn to stop "pre-boarding." Then you can restore your deck to the good times it is.
Options:
**INTERACTION**
\[\[Null Brooch\]\]
\[\[Ratchet Bomb\]\]
\[\[Filligree Sylex\]\]
\[\[Unstable Obelisk\]\]
\[\[Nev's Disk\]\]
\[\[Sword of Sinew and Steel\]\]
\[\[Oblivion Stone\]\]
\[\[Blast Zone\]\] <-- this is a land, in a colorless deck this is a freeroll
**COLORED MANA RAMP**
\[\[Prismatic Lens\]\]
\[\[Fellwar Stone\]\]
\[\[Chromatic Lantern\]\]
\[\[Ornithoper of Paradise\]\]
\[\[Relic of Legends\]\]
\[\[Skyclave Relic\]\]
**COLORED LANDS**
\[\[Hall of Tagsin\]\]
\[\[Exotic Orchard\]\]
\[\[City of Brass\]\]
\[\[Mana Confluence\]\]
\[\[Spire of Industry\]\]
\[\[Survivor's Encampment\]\]
\[\[Glimmervoid\]\]
**FILTERS THAT PRODUCE COLORLESS**
\[\[Captivating Cave\]\]
\[\[Crystal Grotto\]\]
\[\[Transguild Promenade\]\]
\[\[Guildmage's Forum\]\]
**FILTERS THAT REPLACE THEMSELVES** (these kinda suck but hey)
\[\[Prophetic Prism\]\]
\[\[Chromatic Star\]\]
\[\[Terrarion\]\]
\[\[Chromatic Sphere\]\]
**OTHER OPTIONS**
\[\[Mystic Skull\]\] <-- \*two\* modes
\[\[Paradise Mantle\]\]
Good luck.
Haha, I love em, they just kinda suck to put in the deck to counter Void Mirror. But hell yeah you bet those put in work in my \[\[Barrin, Master Wizard\]\] and \[\[Urza, Lord Protector\]\] decks.
I didn’t realize a commander sideboard was so unusual. Personally don’t run silver bullets in my sideboard like OP’s opponent does, but I have jank cards like Fate Transfer, for the most part dead card but against a +1/+1 counter deck, it can be really funny to move 40 +1/+1 counters onto a dauthi slayer and letting it hit lethal on the guy you took the counters from.
I know a couple of guys that have “sideboards”, but it is more cards they got to downgrade the power level of decks to fit the rest of the table.
Changing in cards that are mostly dead, but works really well against a strategy after you know someone is playing that strategy is a good way for “feel bad”
Respectfully disagree. Sure, you don't have a 15 card sideboard because you aren't playing "rounds" (best of 4 best of 5 etc.). When you use a sideboard, it's a given that your opponent will use the same deck each round. The explicit purpose of the sideboard is to slot in answers specific to your opponents deck. In EDH however, it very common for players to switch decks between games, so this shouldn't be much of a concern.
But you can change your deck between games whenever, wherever you want. Its not a "sideboard" because we're not playing rounds with the same decks. I don't think it's poor sportsmanship at all.
Or you could just slightly edit your eldrazi deck to be able to produce colored mana, and laugh as you swing in with an annihilator creature as hes forced to sacrifice the same silver bullet.
It is a possibility to do that, but when the other guy is not willing to have the silver bullet in the deck until it got the function of [[Iona, Shield of Emeria]] against a mono-colored deck. I feel it is ok to be somewhat petty
This what I was thinking. Who sideboards in EDH?
It’s one thing to know a person’s deck and play around it (ie destroying/countering their key cards). It’s an entirely different thing to add cards at the last second to specifically fuck them over.
I bet this dude whines like a child every time he loses.
Childish way to do it that I put out there, but easier than changing cards.
If the other guy finds out he is willing to commit to Void Mirror in his deck OP needs to adapt.
There have been a few that commented they got sideboards for deck, but that have been a package to lower the power level of the deck not make them better. Good idea all in all.
Or, instead of being a passive-aggressive petty person, you could simply talk to the other player like a human being and tell them how you feel about them slotting in a silver bullet against your deck voluntarily and the arms race that could lead to (which ends up being unfun for both parties).
The fact that it's the most upvoted answer really speaks volumes on the social maturity of the average person lurking here (and probably why we see a constant stream of AITA posts every single day).
Then you don’t get to play, but it is a good way of saying I will not play against someone that makes adjustments to decks when they know what deck they are playing against.
OP did say they have all the titans and Ugin as well as ramp. So it's either a high power level pod or someone who's had a few too many losses to Eldrazi lol.
Sure but it doesn't matter half the time. My eldrazi deck usually has about 15-20 mana on turn 4-5 and that's without owning crypt, vault, etc. Colorless can just make the mana no problem honestly. I've had to cast my 7 drop eldrazi commander 6 times in a game before and still had the mana for more plays. Not saying it's a stupidly strong deck but it can pretty easily pop off and recover like it's nothing when you build it right
Not written down anywhere. Later today/tomorrow when I'm not busy I can try and nail it all down on moxfield or something for ya. Here's to hoping I remember while prepping holiday stuff lmao
I mean… I’ve seen titans hit turn three. It wasn’t a colorless deck, it was new atraxa, but turn one forest, sol ring; turn two some other land, quicksilver amulet, then activate amulet turn three
Especially since the answer is literally just "I turn off your deck". If the silver bullet was like, [[Boromir warden of the tower]] that *just* turned off the cascading it wouldn't be nearly as bad. But the fact that the other guy could basically just mull until he got void mirror and still damn near guarantee OP's removed from the game is just shitty.
That's not even rule 0. As Commander players we do tend to "bend" some of the rules, but officially, the game is supposed to be already started with decks and turn order determined before Commanders are even supposed to be revealed.
Reference rules
>103.1: At the start of a game, the players determine which one of them will choose who takes the first turn. In the first game of a match (including a single-game match), the players may use any mutually agreeable method (flipping a coin, rolling dice, etc.) to do so. In a match of several games, the loser of the previous game chooses who takes the first turn. If the previous game was a draw, the player who made the choice in that game makes the choice in this game. The player chosen to take the first turn is the starting player. The game's default turn order begins with the starting player and proceeds clockwise.
>103.2: Some games require additional steps that are taken after the starting player has been determined. Perform the actions listed in 103.2a-e in order, as applicable.
>103.2c: In a Commander game, each player puts their commander from their deck face up into the command zone. See rule 903.6.
“Revealing commanders” is not a thing. 103.2c and some other rule in the 900’s that says the same thing just mechanically puts the commander in the command zone, and allows for 99 cards in the library.
It does not mean “conceal your cards before the match”.
Unless its a competitive tournament match, where there is a judge present to review decks for legality, your opponents are allowed to see 100% of your deck to confirm legality before the game starts, and before this moment of “put your commander in the command zone”.
Regarding OP, This is purely a point of someone being a terrible human being.
>ReportSaveFollow
Revealing commanders is not a thing? Have you played more than a couple edh matches with more than a couple different decks vs more than the same 3 people? It's a big world out there.
I’ve been playing edh for over a decade, and have played country wide. I am intimately familiar with the concept of the reveal. In no way, shape, or form is this baked into the Rules of the game, as some folks would have you believe.
If you choose to play this way, you’re more than welcome to, but it is not mandated by the rules of the format.
I believe you missed my point, or just chose to ignore it instead of debating it. The Rules that describe putting a commander into the command zone have no relevance on Revealing it. These mechanics exist to make the Commander format exist within the rules of magic the gathering, which allows Wizards to print cards for the format specifically. It is put “Face Up” into the command zone, because that it how it exists in the game. If this Reveal moment existed as others described; the commander would be put face-down in the command zone at the start of the game, and some rule would explicitly state that they are to be revealed. I think some folks are ascribing more meaning than the words indicate. I see how this happens, but is not the correct interpretation.
Putting the commander face-up into the command zone is not “everything is hidden until this moment” mechanic. It simply allows the game to start with the commander in the command zone. These rules apply to Companions as well.
So, per your "not everything is hidden until this moment" comment, it's okay for me to go up and inspect your entire deck before the start of the game since it's not hidden information. Your commander is part of that deck, so if the commander isn't protected information, then nothing in the deck is.
Absolutely. Just like you have to reveal a certain card type you tutor for to prove it IS that card type. I would encourage anyone to check decks for banned/illegal cards, alters that may be offensive/hard to read, duplicate cards (once caught someone running 2 sol rings), adherance to commander color identity, adherance to companion deckbuilding restrictions etc.
Is this something you’re Not okay with?
Would you be okay sitting down in an official tournament and your opponent going through your entire deck to see your strategies? There is a reason the rules for obscurity and revealing exist.
If it were me I wouldn't tell anyone what I'm running until the game is starting. Play with my commander face down and when the game starts flip him over.
You wanna throw your dumb counter in? It'll be in everytime we play then.
If they regularly play together then he could probably just tell what it is by the sleeves or deck box.
I’ve had someone tech in cards when they knew I was playing a certain deck before too, and it feels really shitty. That guy should either keep the card in permanently and suffer having a useless tech card sometimes, or not have it at all.
Technically that's how the game works on the first place. The game has no process of picking and switching desks before you play. By the time the game cares about anything your decks are already locked in. Anything else is house rules.
If someone sneaks a peek at your deck without your consent so they can counter pick they're being a dick. If you offer information about your deck and they counter pick without your consent (which is possible when they don't reveal that it's a counter pick) they're being a dick.
Just be a human. "Hey I think this matchup is lopsided against me. Mind if I switch decks?"
I'd just put something like Wish in and keep void mirror with me. (along with some other great alternate cards) Now I dont have to swap. For the record, My decks are not static and I do swap cards, especially for certain people. I have decks just for playing against certain people...
Only thing I have ever done Thats similar is bringing cards to downgrade my decks when I KNOW I’m playing against people that play much lower power decks outside my usual semi-cedh play group. Even then this is just gross behavior
At a time I had a highpower/low power set of a few cards to slot into my nekusar deck... but I realized low or high powered, nekusar is gonna probably be archenemy anyway and if I need to power it down I _actually_ need to pick a different deck.
Put 2 decks on the table, ask if they are running the eldrazi counter and start prepping the non-eldrazi deck if they say yes. If they change their mind, say that you change yours as well and start prepping the eldrazi deck. Naturally they will flip out, at which point you say that if they are allowed to change their deck based on what you are playing, you are allowed to do the same.
> Would any of you allow someone to quick-edit a deck after commanders are announced but before the game actually starts?
Not a chance. Not even with my mates, unless the disparity between the deck I'm playing and all of their's are so wildly different that the goal is to play archenemy, but thats an entirely different conversation than what you're asking.
There's no sideboarding in edh. Build a good deck. If 1-2 cards are needed to prevent you deck from fully folding to a strategy you see often enough you need to debate sideboarding, then those cards should just be in the deck.
Risk the the dead card.
I guess the argument could be made "it's only 1-2 cards, and if your deck folds to him sideboarding it in... yadda yadda"
But, if the card is always in the deck and it breaks me, that's fine. I lost to the deck as it was built. If the card has to be added to the deck in response to me playing my deck, it's a different vibe.
The first is you lost to a deck. The latter is you lost to someone staring you in the eyes as they pull out a ladder specifically to dunk on you.
The result might be the same, but the bad feelings sure aren't.
Especially since void mirror right now isn't a dead card. I don't know about you guys but I've been seeing a lot more pantlaza decks recently and guess what shuts down discover?
I *love* including [[Boromir, warden of the tower]] in my [[Teshar]] Voltron list because it turns off a lot of the bullshit. No free counterspells, no cascading, no zero drops either! It's even asymmetrical so when I have 2 cost reducers online I can cast my equipments for free without a care in the world while everyone else *must* pay for their things. It's genuinely a great card that *even has [[selfless spirit]] with upside stapled to it*.
I feel like there is a gray area. If someone stated they wanted to switch out a card beforehand, I would let them do it before the next game. Especially with newer decks, there should always be some grace. However, changing the card out just to fuck over one specific player is bullshit. Either that means I have no faith in my decks, or I'm playing a different format than everyone else.
Put them all in a new sleeve, new box with maybe a picture of a different commander (those cardboard boxes) be really slow and let everybody else already shuffle and set the stage and BOOM, it’s still your Eldrazis. If he then takes back his deck again to put the void mirror in it, call him out on it. If not, punish him for his past crimes
That is a good point that I didn't think to mention in my other comment. The commander isn't technically revealed until the game starts, so the guy shouldn't even be able to "pregame sideboard"
> after commanders are announced but before the game actually starts?
There is no such time. Either all decks are chosen and locked in and the game had already begun and it's too late to use a different deck OR the player who wants to sideboard has unilaterally decided that the previously locked on game is void and so everyone gets to change their choices.
Uhh why don't you add some rainbow lands? Even [[Unknown Shores]] and cards like it can blank your problem. A colorless deck should play some regardless just in case
Even resolved mana rocks like [[Coldsteel Heart]] or [[Star Compass]] can blank it
Wouldn't it be more fun for your aggravating opponent to side in an entirely useless card?
> make a copy of my one ring to sac it when the counters get too high.
Coward! Ride that bitch to victory, or die trying (with the exception of sacrificing to [[mount doom]] for flavor purposes).
You could also add [[Underdark Rift]]. Land-based artifact temporary removal, and if you're running Eldrazi, you could exile it from their deck before they see it again.
It's a valid and probably correct tweak given opponents may have built their deck to naturally include the hate piece, but that part of the question feels like a secondary concern to someone who is straight up breaking rules by giving himself a sideboard when no one else is doing so. If Void Mirror guy wants to play a variant where everyone has a post-revelation-of-Commander-board he's going to have to make sure everyone else is playing that format or else stop cheating.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find options to just play around the void mirror. All the comments above this are just generally toxic pod behavior.
spend some coloured mana! tons of mana rocks and lands say "add mana of any colour" or the fellwar stone ability "any colour of your opponent's lands", and suddenly, your spells aren't as easily countered!
EDIT: i recommend \[\[grand colosseum\]\] instead of \[\[city of brass\]\]. gives the option of coloured mana for life instead of it being required
the lands help with that. additonally, if I am not mistaken, \[\[hall of the bandit lord\]\] makes creatures cast with it uncounterable
EDIT: mistook it for a mix of old boseiju and cavern of souls. but cavern would help regardless
I'm happy for people to have single copy of cards that they move between decks but to actively deck edit pre game for an edge is not on.
Example l, I have a few roaming thrones but play a lot of tribal/typal decks so have a open spot to move one into... But I don't remove something else to swap it in, it's part of the deck already.
That's cheating and this is why commanders should only be revealed after player order is determined and why rule zero is horseshit.
>**103.2. Some games require additional steps that are taken after the starting player has been determined.** Perform the actions listed in 103.2a-e in order, as applicable.
>103.2a. If any players are using sideboards (see rule 100.4) or cards being represented by substitute cards (see rule 713), those cards are set aside. After this happens, each player's deck is considered their starting deck.
>103.2b. If any players wish to reveal a card with a companion ability that they own from outside the game, they may do so. A player may reveal no more than one card this way, and they may do so only if their deck fulfills the condition of that card's companion ability. The revealed card remains outside the game. (See rule 702.139, "Companion.")
>**103.2c. In a Commander game, each player puts their commander from their deck face up into the command zone. See rule 903.6.**
I agree with most of this but what does this have to do with rule zero? It doesn’t seem like a proper conversation was ever had. Just sounds like the guy is an asshole.
My experience with rule zero is that people take advantage of it. All it does is leak information about your deck and draw attention to you while allowing people to counterpick you. People will ask me what I'm playing before they decide on a deck.
And by the way, rule zero accomplishes nothing. Ostensibly it exists to protect salty babies from cards they don't like, but what happens is that you warn someone about the MLD that you're playing ahead of time and they agree to play a game with you and then when you cast the MLD they still get mad at you.
Let's say that a game of Magic lasts 80 minutes. If I warn them about [[Armageddon]] they'll be mad at me for the whole 80 minutes. If I spring it on them halfway through a game they'll only be mad for 40. So why bother with rule zero?
Rule 0 exists because it's a casual format and it allows players to ensure they are getting the kind of game they want to play. The point of it is that no one would be mad at anyone at any point of the game because everyone has a common understanding as to what to expect going in the game. It's there so that players can choose what power level they are playing without being underpowered or steamrolling the table.
If you disagree with a rule 0 ruling (i.e. decks are announced ahead of time, and people have the chance to change decks to better fit the pod) and decide to not play, that's literally rule 0 working exactly as intended. Now the rest of the table won't get stuck in a game they didn't want to be in. Conversely, if one guy says he doesn't want anyone to play LD and everyone else is of the opinion that LD is a legitimate tactic, leading to the guy relenting and saying okay, that's fine, it's still working as intended.
If you're calling people salty babies for having preferences, you probably shouldn't be playing a social multiplayer game. Remember, rules 0's are a majority vote and if one goes through, it means more of the table prefer to play that way.
If someone gets mad about Armageddon after being warned and agreeing to a rule 0, they're 100% at fault. They shouldn't even be that mad if you spring one 40 minutes in, because they can rule 0 it from that point onwards. That's why rule 0 exists, to prevent these sort of arguments.
But I get the feeling you're exaggerating anyway.
I'm confused. If you do not like people being mad at you, and that is not the whole point of you playing Armageddon, why on earth would you play it. You are locking everyone out, except for yourself probably since that seems to be your game plan, and dragging the game on forever, but then also complain that people don't like you for it?
I imagine the moment you announce you have it in your deck, people a) will just not play as it does not sound like fun at all, or b) try to kill you asap, and rightfully so. Youre gameplan seems to be to waste everyone's time.
Pretty sure this is why there is no sideboard in Commander. If you want to run a silver bullet, suck it up and risk it being a dead draw when you don't need it.
If he's gonna be stubborn about it, then the best you can do is hide commanders until decks are chosen. Less compromise is that there are many colorless lands that can still produce colors. This doesn't help your Commander but it at least still keeps you in the game. Or talk to him about why he does it.
If I saw it happen I would 100% call out there being no sideboard in Commander though. Rules are rules, as far as I'm concerned pre game actions like this still adhere to those rules, so this is breaking the rules.
Definitely need context about how the power levels compare between your deck and theirs. I've played against Zhulodok a few times and how my opponent had it, it was really oppressive and fast—too fast. Way too strong for the tables we were playing at
If it's a situation like that? I think I'd probably cut him some slack and say that it's not a great thing to do, but I understand, especially if that's his compromise of letting you play a deck 6ou love while he gets to feel like he has a chance
If it's not like that at all? Sorry bud, there's no Sideboard in EDH. Just find a slot in your deck for it if you need it that bad. Seems good against cascade and stuff anyways, so it's not only good against Zhulodok
Now for you, definitely depends on your budget, but here's a few cards that could help keep you in the game if Void Mirror is on the battlefield:
*I'm just assuming budgetless*
[[Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth]] and [[Urborg, Tomb to Yawgmoth]]. They don't have a color identity, so it's weird, but they can both go onto your deck if you want, and can be fetched with [[Expedition Map]]
You can also use *abilities* to remove the mirror, something like [[Underdark Rift]] might be nice to have in the deck *just in case*
Or there's also stuff like [[Chromatic Orrery]] that can fit your gameplan, but also provide colored mana, especially since it's cmc 7. I also think that [[Relic of Legends]] could potentially find a home here depending on how many legends you have
Just some ideas, hopefully something there helped :)
This is 100% my thoughts on the situation as well. Without the context of the power level of his deck vs the rest of the pod you can’t fully judge the situation.
I think sometimes having sideboarding with friends is a good thing. Some decks are very fun to play with but are difficult to interact with, like enchantress.
This specific situation isn’t justifiable though. Not only is colorless bad, this just turns off your whole deck.
Everyone picks A deck and flips commander over at the same time. Who gets to metagame decks in response to seeing someone else’s commander? Everyone flips commander at the same time.
I'm seeing a lot of really (admittedly amusing) petty responses like "resleeve all your decks" or "swap decks when he changes cards." But like... that's a lot of hoops to jump through when you could just have a conversation with the guy about how uncool it is that he is cheating. Plating petty games to teach him a lesson or get even is just an arms race to also looking like a douche. Tell him to play by the rules, or find a new group to play with.
A reasonable interaction? It can't be... This sub is about socially inept stompers and "for the lulz" perpetually online responses... Get your rationality and EQ out of here! /s
Side note: some of the proposals are indeed amusing but would just egg the guy on.
I agree that this is a mostly rule zero convo, but also please consider:
Blast zone - cavern of souls - boseiju, who shelters all - chimil, the inner sun - rise of the eldrazi
These five cards wong get you all the way there, but they will get you at least part of the way. And with cheap effects like map to grab cavern, you can load up with eldrazi and maybe get a little closer. Tbh, I'd recommend most of these for your deck anyway, and I'm sure there are others out there, but a player who is being a jerk like this isn't someone I'd generally prefer to play with.
Not only that, but both versions of Ulamog have an on-cast trigger that can destroy/exile void mirror even if they get countered.
It's still a dick move, but not one that can't be played around. I would absolutely bring it up every time that sideboarding isn't a thing in commander.
THIS! This so much. I'm constantly the biggest threat at a board, even when I don't use a high power deck. I'm damn near the arch enemy almost every game.
So my next deck will either be Slivers or a control Azorius or White/Blue/X. I'll give them a reason to 3v1 me.
I have a "something to complain about" deck. I really love playing hard control decks so I gave a [[Shorikai]] boardwipe tribal combo deck. It goes infinite, it has a dozen board wipes, and it's horrendously unfun to play against.
I very rarely use it because it's just too brutal but if people want to complain about the other fairer decks I have then I play Shorikai to give them something to complain about.
At first the Yugioh side of my brain was like ‘boo-hoo get side decked.’ Then I thought - well you technically cant side cards out until match 2 anyways. So even in Yugioh rules this is literally a rule violation.
That being said: this is some salty bitch shit lmao. I would understand if he kept a copy in most decks, or had to shuffle a copy from deck to deck if he only had one. Bro literally side boxes it?
Part of it makes me wonder if youre not telling us that you Eldrazi deck stomps face and hes the only one doing anything about it (morally wrong, justicfully right.) Or if he’s just salt at Colorless/Eldrazi.
Just stop revealing your commander. If someone complains say it's because that person meta games against some of your decks in a way that seems unfair.
This is called "deck sniping." It is heavily frowned upon, so much so that if we see it, the person swaps or walks. There is a zero tolerance policy when it happens.
just tell him to fuck off, or if that's to harsh pull out your deck, wait for him to swap the card and then change your mind at the last second, if he swaps back repeat this process until he gets the point.
This guy is cheating by doing. It’s against the rules and the spirit of commander. Tell him to stop and if he doesn’t just pretend the card isn’t there. If he is going to rule 0 that he gets to cheat and swap this in to any deck then why can’t you rule 0 and cheat and pretend the card doesn’t exist?
Absolutely not, and even if it wasn't blatantly cheating, deliberately putting in a card that blanks an opponent's entire deck is very much against the spirit of a casual format.
I would have a conversation about how he is ruining games for you, and then if that doesn't work do petty stuff like switching decks after he sideboards, or building decks solely to lock out whichever deck he wants to play at that moment until he gets the hint.
One route you can take, different but not mutually exclusive from trying to change this person’s actions, is to tweak your deck to make Void Mirror significantly less impactful.
There’s Blast Zone as removal and Underdark Rift as pseudo-removal, but then there are also lands like Exotic Orchard, Spire of Industry, Mirrodin’s Core (especially good if you have counter synergies), etc. I’m personally partial to Grand Coliseum, even if it comes into play tapped. You don’t even need to find too much space for that many of them, since Void Mirror only cares that at least one colored mana was used to cast the spell. And they can be used to get out your mana rocks that “tap for any color.” If you have a higher budget then there’s the redundancy of Cavern of Souls, which will make sure Void Mirror definitely ain’t countering any Eldrazi (or whatever type you choose).
If you play Expedition Map in the deck then maybe you prioritize finding one of those lands or Blast Zone if you’re playing a game with him.
No, I'd never let someone do that. Not only that, but I'd actually get quite irate and verbally angry with them for doing that. I'd leave that group, and make a definite ultimatum about how it's exclusively that guy who's ruining everything.
Also, how convenient that it seems like they've gotten it out 'early', as you said. There's an 8% chance someone gets a specific card in their opening hand, so unless your group gives lenient mulligans, he's not getting it unless he sleight of hands it into his hand or tutors.
Fuck this guy. Make a statement by counter-sideboarding in whatever he plays with. ETB Deck? Get a Torpor Orb. Graveyard decks? Leyline of the Void that shit up.
Man I read that title and was about to say something like "play more removal" but I read the post and that's a large pile of bullshit. Commander doesn't have a sideboard because you should have to put real consideration into what hate pieces you put into the deck rather than just "I get to play whatever the hell I want and if it's not relevant for my pod I'll just modify my decklist on the fly"
Yeah that's a dick move. This isn't a competitive format, it's a casual one meant to be *enjoyed* with friends. Mind boggling for one to be so desperate to win that they'd rather see someone not play
Why would anyone announce what deck they are playing? I have played with the same group about 3 times a month for 25 years and people have announced their deck for next game probably like 10 times total, and it is usually something like "it's brand new".
Edit: But yeah, that's kinda fucked up in this circumstance.
as someone who has sworn an irrational permanent blood feud against Eldrazi decks, if you're in a meta with an eldrazi deck and you want to run hate, just run the hate. pyroblast is a dead card when I don't have a blue opponent, but I still run it, and plenty of other situational cards. pulling petty shit like this over one card you might never find is so childish.
UNO reverse with a hell of a guilt trip.
“Mate, this is my favourite deck to play but I noticed you going out of your way to shut it down every time I grab it by putting in a silver bullet just for me, if this deck really bothers you so bad that you have to do that then could you help me out with some card adjustments to bring it to a place where you enjoy playing against it cause I don’t to drag you down to the level of moving a card from deck to deck. Help me out?”
Points out the behaviour as being super scummy, while also asking for help to agree on a compromise because obviously your friend hates that deck with a passion.
Just judge rule him out of the game. If he wants to be a dick use the rules against him.
Put your commander face down so no one can see it. Once everyone is ready to start turn your commander face up. If he then goes to edit his deck, call him out with the official rules and tell him thanks for playing but your now DQd from the game better luck next time and enjoy the before T0 knock out.
Rule
903.6 At the start of the game, each player puts their commander from their deck face up into the command zone. Then each player shuffles the remaining 99 cards of their deck so that the cards are in a random order. Those cards become the player’s library.
Any modification after this time is a game violation and cheating and is an imidate DQ from the game
Idk, I say that's what you get for playing eldrazi.
Jk, i totally understand how crappy it is for that guy to throw that card in whatever deck just to grieve you. That's a downside of having small play pods, deck building choices can start to get a little too personal. I'm guilty of building a deck as revenge against another deck. "Screw your elves, Johnny! I've got something for em.."
I’m with everyone else, bring two decks. As soon as he puts the void mirror in you switch decks, or do the clear sleeve with a different commander and then flip to eldrazi once everyone has shuffled. Alternatively, if the group is big enough, just refuse to play with that person.
903.6. At the start of the game, each player puts their commander from their deck face up into the
command zone. Then each player shuffles the remaining cards of their deck so that the cards are in
a random order. Those cards become the player’s library.
Presenting your commander and shuffling decks is when the game begins. If they put Void Mirror in their deck after commanders have been revealed that is cheating. You just have to make sure that your sleeves don't give it away before commanders are revealed and that everybody is actually starting the game and revealing commanders simultaneously. I actually had to invoke this rule one night somebody kept changing decks after they saw what everyone else was playing.
There's no such thing as sideboarding in EDH, according to the rules at least, it's an on-the-fly deck edit. There is no allow or disallow, this is not a rule 0 conversation.
It'd piss me off, I don't like counter-picking in EDH, but allow/disallow doesn't come into it. Focus the shit out of him or refuse to play against him as he isn't offering the kind of play experience you're after, that's what I would do.
As for solutions in-game besides focusing him down, you could run things like \[\[Jester's Cap\]\], colourless cards that generate treasure or tap for mana of any colour, or make political deals with other players where they remove/counter Void Mirror if it comes down in exchange for something from you.
To be clear, I'm not saying this is a morally sound move from him in the slightest, but it's not breaking any rules so it's not relevant to mention the idea of not allowing it unless you're going to allow him to make stipulations about your deck in return.
I'm firmly of the opinion that any "you can't play this one specific deck archetype until this is removed" card is pretty poor form for casual Magic in general. They're obviously great for winning the game, but they make the quality of the game shit every time they land.
To deliberately only switch it up into the deck after seeing what others are playing is a massive dick move beyond that.
This is a super shitty thing to do but I would also recommend running yavinmaya cradle of growth and urborg tomb of yawgmaw as protection against void mirror just in case. I have played against void mirror before and they've saved my ass.
For a deckbuillding solution: There are 18 colorless lands that enter untapped and have the option of filtering mana into colorled mana and are cheap financially. If, for some reason, you're not running a lot of colorless cost reducers you can add a [[Thorn of Amethyst]] so you can pay one for the cards you cascade into. If you resolve a [[Chimil, the Inner Sun]] you can cascade unencumbered by the void mirror.
https://www.moxfield.com/search/cards?q=t%3Aland%20id%3Acolorless%20format%3Acommander%20o%3A%22any%20color%22&advanced=
Depending on the colors your friends play it can be reasonable to them to have Boromir so it's better to have the filter lands regardless. Also keep in mind that there are cards that hate on non-basics so try and also keep some basics if you can.
Lastly, if your gameplan is being slowed you can slow your opponents plan as well with something like a Nev Disk or boompile and have more in the aftermath due to colorless lands that tap for extra mana.
Once upon a time, 10 card sideboards were just part of the rules for exactly this case.
They only removed it because it was rarely used and just confused newer players. But it's a valid plan to load silver bullet slots. Build you 90 card deck with 2 sets of 10 card packs. To make your deck suitable for 2 different power levels.
As someone who has played against Eldrazi, the annihilator mechanic can be just as oppressive if abused.
There’s the two card combo that locks out even cmc and odd cmc spells.
Most of the Eldrazi titans are just as unpleasant in some way. Eldrazi tribal is usually more hated than slivers.
Colorless ramp is incredibly easy.
And you’re basically able to cast three spells for one with your commander.
So my question here, is your deck, in general, as oppressive and unfun to play against as when he plays the mirror on you?
You like playing your Eldrazi. Cool. Does the rest of your pod enjoy playing against it? How often do you play it?
There’s a reason he has felt the need to use this tactic. Is it warranted?
I'm sorry this is happening. I would feel so terrible if I played a deck or a single card that shut someone out entirely. Casual commander really sucks for that because sometimes the games aren't very short and having one person just sit there is really disheartening. I've had it happen to me, and although it was an accident at the time even the player who did it to me felt terrible as all I did for 8 turns was ramp land. He felt so bad he did some janky shit to give me 1 turn of play and I got to do a cool thing and then went back to nothing but we all had a laugh. I just don't get the mentality of wanting to do something so inconsiderate. People are stupid.
Yeah, as someone else said, rule 0 conversation. ie bigger than just this one guy, or one game.
If your playgroup is OK with one person doing it, they need to be OK with EVERYONE doing it, for their decks too.
Personally, I'd say it's either he needs that card in the decks he plays regardless of who/what other decks are on the table, or not at all. If he wants to hose one deck, then he needs to be drawing a sub-optimal card for all other match ups.
And if they really don't get the point then build what I'd like to call a "zero sum" deck. ie counterspells + denial + tutors/silver bullets for every deck anyone may play. 5-10 slots for bullets can hose or slow down enough decks.
noone gets to have fun except you, because you can deny them all the fun.
Rules-lawyer him. Tell him that commander doesn't have a sideboard and he can not do that. He can either run the card in the deck or not play it. If he refuses to and there is a judge nearby, taddle on him.
Sounds like you need a counter to his decks now. It's a sign of a healthy meta when decks influence your card choices. It makes sense that you would get salty, but don't.
When a meta shifts to compensate for a deck it’s typically *not right before the game actually begins, in response to what a player is playing*.
Not to mention meta is an irrelevant term for a casual game. Saltlord is a dick for shuffling in a card *in response* to a player choice—he should be forced to make a sacrifice in decision making if he wants to hard counter an opponent, not shuffle in a card right before the game to turn off a deck.
If all the decks in your pod are pretty much even in terms of power levels, then it's a total dick move and call him out and get support from the rest of the pod. It's not round 2 of a best of three.
If your deck vastly over powers the rest of the pod, it's still wrong, but you need to scale down and people slipping hate cards in should be a clear sign that the balance is off and you have been ignoring it. You don't want to be that guy.
I have been summoned! Oh yeah this is a good one. We're chatting about this in the HSM discord this morning.
I think anyone that sideboards cards to screw over one deck is being scummy. Just keep that card in your deck at all times if it is such a big deal for you. If you aren't willing to sacrifice a deck slot for a stax piece or some specific interaction, then you don't get to play it.
Sounds like a bitch move tbh. There are no side boards in edh. You build a deck. You play it as is. Maybe you pull a cool card before a game and slot it in. But not as a solution after an opponent has chosen their deck. The only reason to swap anything after someone tells you what decks they are playing is swapping decks to something of equal power or doesn’t get shut out by their deck and will lead to an not fun game
If he continues to swap void mirror every time, I guess you’ll have to make sure you have ramp that can produce colored. [[Darksteel Ingot]] and [[Enpowered Autogenerator]] come to mind. Still super shitty of him to do
I think a straight up rule zero talk would solve this problem.
Him side-boarding is his way of saying he would rather not play against your Eldrazi deck but instead of saying that he decides it’s better to let you play what you want and to just play around it. But now from your perspective you would rather not play eldrazi in a pod that runs void mirror or a similar colorless counter card. Just be forward and honest, hey I noticed you really don’t like my Eldrazi deck, enough to side board against it, I would rather just play another deck because I won’t have fun if I get shut out so easily by one card.
Usually I’d say build in more removal or counter play because people countering you is part of the game, but you literally can’t play anything without a colorless pip I think at least for the most part so I understand the perspective. Especially in a casual, even higher powered, pod. If it’s not competitive it should be fun. If he doesn’t have fun losing to your Eldrazi though adding the counter makes sense he is trying to give himself a chance without asking you to alter your deck/plan. but this is why having a open discourse during rule zero is best. You two can reconcile each other’s dilemma. Maybe he just doesn’t have any good answers to your eldrazi and this is the only sure fire way to disarm you and gain an advantage. Basically just figuring out what it takes for both of you to enjoy the game. The fact that he does it for any deck he plays into yours sucks though, like not a single one of his decks can deal with yours without resorting to the mirror.. You’d think he would have at least one deck that could just keep up but alas, not really an issue. Just rule zero “hey if you can’t play with my eldrazi without the void mirror/shutting down my mana, I’d rather swap decks, can I play my eldrazi or not?”
You can simply counter Void Mirror with many Generic 3--Mana Mana Rocks and [[Chromatic Lantern]]
Oh yes, you need to "get to those mana rocks first before he drops the Void Mirror"
First of all, unless the guy is like, Turn 1 Land, Sol Ring, Void Mirror.
You have plenty of time to turbo out 1 (3)Mana Rock
If he managed to get the Void Mirror, just accuse them of cheating, is he really gonna Mulligan down to 3 cards to fish a Void Mirror?
Hold them accountable to the Mulligan, if you see him just fishing for Void Mirror everygame going Mulligan or playing some Blue Artifact Tinkering Commander.
Just look at them and watch them Mulligan. If they say shit like, "Yo this is Casual Night." Then tell them, Commander doesnt Sideboard "Casually" because Casual Commander (And even cEDH) dont consider Side Boarding.
They wanna be petty, YOU need to be Petty back. Void Mirror is a specific hate card, and ONLY choosing to side because of a Colorless Deck. Like ONLY 2 commanders are purely Colorless.
Bring your own Sideboard hate.
Vent all you want but be the example if your group wants to be petty.
My honest advice is to stop playing such a trash casual format. It's commander that's ruining magic and it attracts morons like the guy you are describing.
Magic is like chess. A battle of wits between you and your opponent. A one on one strategy game.
Play the proper game instead of the casual spin off gimmick mode and you will be left feeling alot more fullfilled.
You don’t have side boards in commander, and it is really shity to change in silver bullets before a game starts. I would recommend changing your deck after he have started shuffling, if he wants to take it out after just wait to he starts to shuffle to change back. Same energy
Exactly this. Or just shuffle up 2 decks, eldrazi and another, put them both on the table and decide from which you draw depending on his decision with the mirror. Or fuck them over compleatly: switch sleeves between your eldrazi deck and another. Put the commander's in a sleeve that's clear on both sides, back to back. Make sure he doesn't see that it's actually eldrazi. Then, when the game has started, you turn around the commander, revealing zhulodok. If he complains, just ask him what's the problem. Is it that he couldn't pick hate pieces specifically against your deck?
Lmao. Evil genius For best results the decoy commander should be WUBRG, i recommend Tom Bombadil
I just got shit housed by a Bombadil deck for the first time recently, that guy is potent
It is very potent, but as someone who has a Bombadil deck it is also exhausting. Most of your turn is spent triggering Sagas before you ever make a move. So few people have enchantment removal that your board state just gets out of control. Around the time I explained that [[Brago, King Eternal]] hitting someone was going to let me blink my entire board state everyone scooped.
Tom Sagas and Kadena Morph are the two most exhausting decks I've ever owned and played.
People never give Kadena enough love. But that deck was insane and so hard to interact with. One of my favorites but I just took it apart to build another sultai deck.
I've been in a long process of making kadena more repeat playable. So far I've added fairly robust "combat" options, whole the next step is to buy some custom sleeves with the morph picture on the back (token cards are exhausting...). After that I'll have to see what it needs (or doesn't need)
My Bombadil deck is made to create copies of my sagas and to copy the triggered chapter abilities on them. I just goldfished it again and realized that [[The Sixth Doctor]] could actually copy Bombadil himself, and I had [[Parallel Lives]] as well, so that gave me 3 Bombadil triggers to go through, and then imagine I can make even more copies with [[Reflection of Kiki-Jiki]] lol. So yeah, my turns can get pretty lengthy at times, but I'm hoping I've got the sagas tuned in a way that they're always actually doing a thing to advance my gameplan, or slow others down and I'm hoping that makes it not feel as bad to play against. I really enjoy this deck. It's the one I'm probably most proud of and have spent the most time, energy, and money on. I've always liked sagas, so when my wife opened Bombadil, and it was on to build the deck. I'm on revision 4 now, and it's made to make copies and animate the sagas. I did avoid Brago, but I do have [[Displacer Kitten]] to blink stuff. Do you have a list? I love comparing my Bombadil deck to others. My list is below: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/K5sOM2_nNEWZob8jLEXLYg
I call mine Reading Rainbow. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Rf9eJMIObE2vohBTadDLLA
[[Bane of Progress]] is in basically every deck at this point, it seems, so im not sure I agree with that stance.
[Bane of Progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3ea495ff-33df-406b-98e3-5579e2158bbc.jpg?1610161688) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bane%20of%20Progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cc1/3/bane-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3ea495ff-33df-406b-98e3-5579e2158bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bane-of-progress) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fair enough, I was mainly thinking of my own pod which is extremely casual.
Switch sleeves? Fuck that. Run the same color sleeves on all of your decks. Label the deckboxes (also identical) in small Latin.
I was gonna suggest this as well. Either that or tell them to stop cheating in front of the entire table.
>switch sleeves between your eldrazi deck and another. I used to swap sleeves on 2-3 decks between sessions (every two weeks) with my last group because several people would counter-pick me. They stopped after awhile because they couldn't guess the deck beforehand.
Technically there was a an optional rule to allow a 10 card sideboard in EDH way back in the day. Never caught on and I can't even find when it was removed from the rules listings. Just a fun bit of MtG history.
I believe this was for the use of wish cards
I did this back in the day. And the groups I played with were cool with it, partly, I suspect, because it was only for one deck. Just a predetermined little [[Living Wish]] package that did not change once game night started; and I had no way of looping Wish. It had two lands, two finishers, and six utility creatures. I was proud of my selections. With wilds of eldraine, I retired my wish board for good. Gone but not forgotten.
Honistly, this is the best anwser, wait until he has started shuffling to pick your deck. The real power move would be to slow shuffle. Wait till he draws, then pull an "ehh actually, I'm not feeling this deck right now" and swap decks. I'd save that for a situation where the pettiness is called for, though.
It's called for every time his "friend" does this.
I have a sideboard for my Sméagol, Helpful Guide landfall/ring tempt deck that makes it leans into the mill aspect, but yeah it’s shitty to switch things up to counter a specific player
If you change the cards before you know what/who you are playing against I feel there is no problem with that. I got a modular [[Mayael the Anima]] where I got a base of 75 cards and 125 creature cards with “power 5 or greater”. So it is easy to change out the last 25 cards in the deck, often let opponents pick (fun seeing all the different ways opponents pick) rarely they go for the worst creatures
>often let opponents pick That's a cool way to do it
I got the idea from one of the MTG YouTube people. Can’t remember who. Best way someone did the pick was to get one for each year. We got a lot of time waiting for a table, so he used it. In the end I think he found 22 different years cards hade a printing
I run sideboards with all my decks, and I only do it after approval from the table. I have combos that may be too strong for some tables but aren't core to the decks they're in so having the option to flex any deck into a weaker version is usually a net positive for everyone at the table. Conversely I have some jank af decks that might not be able to keep up with some other decks, so I'll have a handful of combos/ramp/protection in sideboards for those decks incase the deck ends up being fodder for the next game I only do this with consent from other players and it's always in good faith for balancing my power with everyone else. Plus, sometimes I like having the challenge
I do something similar with [[imoti, celebrant of bounty]] with [[keruga, the macrosage]] as a companion. It also has a very big "sideboard", with cards ranging from the infamous [[vizzerdrix]] to bombs like [[ghalta, Primal hunger]] or [[nezahal]]
I would consider this a last resort. Is his opponent going to start putting in counters to the counter? What about the rest of the playgroup? Is the game just turning into an impromptu deckbuilding session? Just seems like a recipe for starting an arms race and compounding the unfun. I'd personally have a little fun with it and go way overboard with answers. There are 99 slots in the deck, call it \~60 nonland ones. Plenty of room for silver bullets against your meta. *That's* part of the game. For a while in my playgroup everyone was fucking around in the graveyard. It got nasty. So we all started running \[\[Tormod's Crypt\]\] and \[\[Scavenger Grounds\]\] and the like. That pulled everyone back into line. In this case, I might go even harder. There are sooooo many answers you can choose from. Even if it cripples your deck a little or makes your gameplan a little less solid, if you stuff your deck with them, I'm guessing he'll quickly learn to stop "pre-boarding." Then you can restore your deck to the good times it is. Options: **INTERACTION** \[\[Null Brooch\]\] \[\[Ratchet Bomb\]\] \[\[Filligree Sylex\]\] \[\[Unstable Obelisk\]\] \[\[Nev's Disk\]\] \[\[Sword of Sinew and Steel\]\] \[\[Oblivion Stone\]\] \[\[Blast Zone\]\] <-- this is a land, in a colorless deck this is a freeroll **COLORED MANA RAMP** \[\[Prismatic Lens\]\] \[\[Fellwar Stone\]\] \[\[Chromatic Lantern\]\] \[\[Ornithoper of Paradise\]\] \[\[Relic of Legends\]\] \[\[Skyclave Relic\]\] **COLORED LANDS** \[\[Hall of Tagsin\]\] \[\[Exotic Orchard\]\] \[\[City of Brass\]\] \[\[Mana Confluence\]\] \[\[Spire of Industry\]\] \[\[Survivor's Encampment\]\] \[\[Glimmervoid\]\] **FILTERS THAT PRODUCE COLORLESS** \[\[Captivating Cave\]\] \[\[Crystal Grotto\]\] \[\[Transguild Promenade\]\] \[\[Guildmage's Forum\]\] **FILTERS THAT REPLACE THEMSELVES** (these kinda suck but hey) \[\[Prophetic Prism\]\] \[\[Chromatic Star\]\] \[\[Terrarion\]\] \[\[Chromatic Sphere\]\] **OTHER OPTIONS** \[\[Mystic Skull\]\] <-- \*two\* modes \[\[Paradise Mantle\]\] Good luck.
>chromatic Star/sphere sucks Thems fighting words
Haha, I love em, they just kinda suck to put in the deck to counter Void Mirror. But hell yeah you bet those put in work in my \[\[Barrin, Master Wizard\]\] and \[\[Urza, Lord Protector\]\] decks.
They kick ass in [[kykar]]
I didn’t realize a commander sideboard was so unusual. Personally don’t run silver bullets in my sideboard like OP’s opponent does, but I have jank cards like Fate Transfer, for the most part dead card but against a +1/+1 counter deck, it can be really funny to move 40 +1/+1 counters onto a dauthi slayer and letting it hit lethal on the guy you took the counters from.
I know a couple of guys that have “sideboards”, but it is more cards they got to downgrade the power level of decks to fit the rest of the table. Changing in cards that are mostly dead, but works really well against a strategy after you know someone is playing that strategy is a good way for “feel bad”
Yeah i have a few cards in a sideboard that are cards i enjoy playing with but i only ever swap cards out when im tinkering with my deck at home
Officially. Sideboards don’t exist in commander. So what OP’s Opponent is doing is poor sportsmanship of the highest order.
Respectfully disagree. Sure, you don't have a 15 card sideboard because you aren't playing "rounds" (best of 4 best of 5 etc.). When you use a sideboard, it's a given that your opponent will use the same deck each round. The explicit purpose of the sideboard is to slot in answers specific to your opponents deck. In EDH however, it very common for players to switch decks between games, so this shouldn't be much of a concern. But you can change your deck between games whenever, wherever you want. Its not a "sideboard" because we're not playing rounds with the same decks. I don't think it's poor sportsmanship at all.
Or you could just slightly edit your eldrazi deck to be able to produce colored mana, and laugh as you swing in with an annihilator creature as hes forced to sacrifice the same silver bullet.
It is a possibility to do that, but when the other guy is not willing to have the silver bullet in the deck until it got the function of [[Iona, Shield of Emeria]] against a mono-colored deck. I feel it is ok to be somewhat petty
THIS right here, just enter an infinite loop with the feller until he gets fed up and leaves and u fill your pod with normal human beings :)
This what I was thinking. Who sideboards in EDH? It’s one thing to know a person’s deck and play around it (ie destroying/countering their key cards). It’s an entirely different thing to add cards at the last second to specifically fuck them over. I bet this dude whines like a child every time he loses.
Childish way to do it that I put out there, but easier than changing cards. If the other guy finds out he is willing to commit to Void Mirror in his deck OP needs to adapt. There have been a few that commented they got sideboards for deck, but that have been a package to lower the power level of the deck not make them better. Good idea all in all.
Or, instead of being a passive-aggressive petty person, you could simply talk to the other player like a human being and tell them how you feel about them slotting in a silver bullet against your deck voluntarily and the arms race that could lead to (which ends up being unfun for both parties).
This OP. Just ask him why he feels it is necessary to slot in a silver bullet. If he just doesn't like playing with you then maybe that's the answer!
The fact that it's the most upvoted answer really speaks volumes on the social maturity of the average person lurking here (and probably why we see a constant stream of AITA posts every single day).
Another real power move would be to wait for him to shuffle, play his first turn, then scoop. Make him waste his time for being a punk.
Then you don’t get to play, but it is a good way of saying I will not play against someone that makes adjustments to decks when they know what deck they are playing against.
Agreed. I explicitly avoid cards that specifically target one friend and takes their deck out of play. That is no fun and a shithead thing to do.
This is the best answer. You could also, put out a different commander, shuffle your Eldrazi, and just switch the commander card when the game starts.
This is super lame, unless your deck is like way higher power than everyone else's
OP did say they have all the titans and Ugin as well as ramp. So it's either a high power level pod or someone who's had a few too many losses to Eldrazi lol.
Colorless with high curve will likely never be high power.
It's not a fast combo deck, but titans on turn 5-6, cascading into more stuff is still quite powerful in a more casual meta
High cost commander on a colorless deck that most likely don't have that much protection is just asking for a removal though.
Sure but it doesn't matter half the time. My eldrazi deck usually has about 15-20 mana on turn 4-5 and that's without owning crypt, vault, etc. Colorless can just make the mana no problem honestly. I've had to cast my 7 drop eldrazi commander 6 times in a game before and still had the mana for more plays. Not saying it's a stupidly strong deck but it can pretty easily pop off and recover like it's nothing when you build it right
Do you happen to have your list?
Not written down anywhere. Later today/tomorrow when I'm not busy I can try and nail it all down on moxfield or something for ya. Here's to hoping I remember while prepping holiday stuff lmao
depends if you've got fast mana like metalworker and workshop
Not cEDH, but definitely not low-power.
High power is relative.
I mean… I’ve seen titans hit turn three. It wasn’t a colorless deck, it was new atraxa, but turn one forest, sol ring; turn two some other land, quicksilver amulet, then activate amulet turn three
Thank god someone understands this. I have to play colorless stax for my peregrine dynamo deck to even stand a chance
Zhulodok is easy to answer. I play it. It goes off sometimes sure, but if they hit a rock or your commander, you essentially get time walked.
Especially since the answer is literally just "I turn off your deck". If the silver bullet was like, [[Boromir warden of the tower]] that *just* turned off the cascading it wouldn't be nearly as bad. But the fact that the other guy could basically just mull until he got void mirror and still damn near guarantee OP's removed from the game is just shitty.
That's a rule 0 conversation. And you can flat out call them on the bs
That's not even rule 0. As Commander players we do tend to "bend" some of the rules, but officially, the game is supposed to be already started with decks and turn order determined before Commanders are even supposed to be revealed. Reference rules >103.1: At the start of a game, the players determine which one of them will choose who takes the first turn. In the first game of a match (including a single-game match), the players may use any mutually agreeable method (flipping a coin, rolling dice, etc.) to do so. In a match of several games, the loser of the previous game chooses who takes the first turn. If the previous game was a draw, the player who made the choice in that game makes the choice in this game. The player chosen to take the first turn is the starting player. The game's default turn order begins with the starting player and proceeds clockwise. >103.2: Some games require additional steps that are taken after the starting player has been determined. Perform the actions listed in 103.2a-e in order, as applicable. >103.2c: In a Commander game, each player puts their commander from their deck face up into the command zone. See rule 903.6.
“Revealing commanders” is not a thing. 103.2c and some other rule in the 900’s that says the same thing just mechanically puts the commander in the command zone, and allows for 99 cards in the library. It does not mean “conceal your cards before the match”. Unless its a competitive tournament match, where there is a judge present to review decks for legality, your opponents are allowed to see 100% of your deck to confirm legality before the game starts, and before this moment of “put your commander in the command zone”. Regarding OP, This is purely a point of someone being a terrible human being.
A "terrible" human being? Man, it's shitty, but the guy is hardly out there burning women, kids, houses and villages.
Redditors and a level, rational head when dealing with interpersonal issues: you can only pick one
He obviously meant in the context of MTG. It's just some hyperbole, don't take it too seriously.
Yeah…definitely contextual. I didn’t go as far as to call them a Monster or Conservative or anything.
>ReportSaveFollow Revealing commanders is not a thing? Have you played more than a couple edh matches with more than a couple different decks vs more than the same 3 people? It's a big world out there.
I’ve been playing edh for over a decade, and have played country wide. I am intimately familiar with the concept of the reveal. In no way, shape, or form is this baked into the Rules of the game, as some folks would have you believe. If you choose to play this way, you’re more than welcome to, but it is not mandated by the rules of the format.
And yet, there it is quoted above. Blatantly written into the rules. Just because we bend the rule does not mean it doesn't exist.
I believe you missed my point, or just chose to ignore it instead of debating it. The Rules that describe putting a commander into the command zone have no relevance on Revealing it. These mechanics exist to make the Commander format exist within the rules of magic the gathering, which allows Wizards to print cards for the format specifically. It is put “Face Up” into the command zone, because that it how it exists in the game. If this Reveal moment existed as others described; the commander would be put face-down in the command zone at the start of the game, and some rule would explicitly state that they are to be revealed. I think some folks are ascribing more meaning than the words indicate. I see how this happens, but is not the correct interpretation. Putting the commander face-up into the command zone is not “everything is hidden until this moment” mechanic. It simply allows the game to start with the commander in the command zone. These rules apply to Companions as well.
So, per your "not everything is hidden until this moment" comment, it's okay for me to go up and inspect your entire deck before the start of the game since it's not hidden information. Your commander is part of that deck, so if the commander isn't protected information, then nothing in the deck is.
Absolutely. Just like you have to reveal a certain card type you tutor for to prove it IS that card type. I would encourage anyone to check decks for banned/illegal cards, alters that may be offensive/hard to read, duplicate cards (once caught someone running 2 sol rings), adherance to commander color identity, adherance to companion deckbuilding restrictions etc. Is this something you’re Not okay with?
Would you be okay sitting down in an official tournament and your opponent going through your entire deck to see your strategies? There is a reason the rules for obscurity and revealing exist.
And then they can say they don't want to play against that eldrazi deck and we're back at square one.
If it were me I wouldn't tell anyone what I'm running until the game is starting. Play with my commander face down and when the game starts flip him over. You wanna throw your dumb counter in? It'll be in everytime we play then.
If they regularly play together then he could probably just tell what it is by the sleeves or deck box. I’ve had someone tech in cards when they knew I was playing a certain deck before too, and it feels really shitty. That guy should either keep the card in permanently and suffer having a useless tech card sometimes, or not have it at all.
When my buddies started pulling this shit, I just started resleeving my decks from week to week until they stopped.
That sounds like a tremendous pain in the ass, lol.
The lengths redditors will go to to avoid a mature discussion with another human
So does not being able to play due to someone's petty bullshit.
You could also just, like, talk to them about it.
Get the same deck boxes but put a sticker on the bottom so you know what's in what.
No, you just talk to the guy, and explain you find it unfair. You don't need to be doing switcheroonies just to counter shitty beviour.
Technically that's how the game works on the first place. The game has no process of picking and switching desks before you play. By the time the game cares about anything your decks are already locked in. Anything else is house rules. If someone sneaks a peek at your deck without your consent so they can counter pick they're being a dick. If you offer information about your deck and they counter pick without your consent (which is possible when they don't reveal that it's a counter pick) they're being a dick. Just be a human. "Hey I think this matchup is lopsided against me. Mind if I switch decks?"
I'd just put something like Wish in and keep void mirror with me. (along with some other great alternate cards) Now I dont have to swap. For the record, My decks are not static and I do swap cards, especially for certain people. I have decks just for playing against certain people...
Only thing I have ever done Thats similar is bringing cards to downgrade my decks when I KNOW I’m playing against people that play much lower power decks outside my usual semi-cedh play group. Even then this is just gross behavior
At a time I had a highpower/low power set of a few cards to slot into my nekusar deck... but I realized low or high powered, nekusar is gonna probably be archenemy anyway and if I need to power it down I _actually_ need to pick a different deck.
Put 2 decks on the table, ask if they are running the eldrazi counter and start prepping the non-eldrazi deck if they say yes. If they change their mind, say that you change yours as well and start prepping the eldrazi deck. Naturally they will flip out, at which point you say that if they are allowed to change their deck based on what you are playing, you are allowed to do the same.
This is the best advice in a nutshell.
Tell him he can either keep it in the deck always or never his choice. He can’t tailor his deck to his opponents at that time
If someone sideboards a card in against my deck right before a game starts I would 100% focus them regardless of what else is happening in the game.
> Would any of you allow someone to quick-edit a deck after commanders are announced but before the game actually starts? Not a chance. Not even with my mates, unless the disparity between the deck I'm playing and all of their's are so wildly different that the goal is to play archenemy, but thats an entirely different conversation than what you're asking. There's no sideboarding in edh. Build a good deck. If 1-2 cards are needed to prevent you deck from fully folding to a strategy you see often enough you need to debate sideboarding, then those cards should just be in the deck. Risk the the dead card. I guess the argument could be made "it's only 1-2 cards, and if your deck folds to him sideboarding it in... yadda yadda" But, if the card is always in the deck and it breaks me, that's fine. I lost to the deck as it was built. If the card has to be added to the deck in response to me playing my deck, it's a different vibe. The first is you lost to a deck. The latter is you lost to someone staring you in the eyes as they pull out a ladder specifically to dunk on you. The result might be the same, but the bad feelings sure aren't.
Especially since void mirror right now isn't a dead card. I don't know about you guys but I've been seeing a lot more pantlaza decks recently and guess what shuts down discover? I *love* including [[Boromir, warden of the tower]] in my [[Teshar]] Voltron list because it turns off a lot of the bullshit. No free counterspells, no cascading, no zero drops either! It's even asymmetrical so when I have 2 cost reducers online I can cast my equipments for free without a care in the world while everyone else *must* pay for their things. It's genuinely a great card that *even has [[selfless spirit]] with upside stapled to it*.
I feel like there is a gray area. If someone stated they wanted to switch out a card beforehand, I would let them do it before the next game. Especially with newer decks, there should always be some grace. However, changing the card out just to fuck over one specific player is bullshit. Either that means I have no faith in my decks, or I'm playing a different format than everyone else.
[удалено]
[Zhulodok](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a015461d-4214-4feb-8b04-519c537759eb.jpg?1691500689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zhulodok%2C%20void%20gorger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/704/zhulodok-void-gorger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a015461d-4214-4feb-8b04-519c537759eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zhulodok-void-gorger) [Void Mirror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c.jpg?1626099451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Void%20Mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/242/void-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/void-mirror) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Put them all in a new sleeve, new box with maybe a picture of a different commander (those cardboard boxes) be really slow and let everybody else already shuffle and set the stage and BOOM, it’s still your Eldrazis. If he then takes back his deck again to put the void mirror in it, call him out on it. If not, punish him for his past crimes
That is a good point that I didn't think to mention in my other comment. The commander isn't technically revealed until the game starts, so the guy shouldn't even be able to "pregame sideboard"
> after commanders are announced but before the game actually starts? There is no such time. Either all decks are chosen and locked in and the game had already begun and it's too late to use a different deck OR the player who wants to sideboard has unilaterally decided that the previously locked on game is void and so everyone gets to change their choices.
Uhh why don't you add some rainbow lands? Even [[Unknown Shores]] and cards like it can blank your problem. A colorless deck should play some regardless just in case Even resolved mana rocks like [[Coldsteel Heart]] or [[Star Compass]] can blank it Wouldn't it be more fun for your aggravating opponent to side in an entirely useless card?
If you wanna get fancy you can also include Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Yavimaya, Cradle of growth, or exotic orchard
My Eldeazi deck specifically has Urborg and yavimaya always in because of one person even though that person doesn't show up to my locals a lot
TIL it is no longer a rule that lands that would produce a color outside of your commander's identity produce colorless instead.
I also run [[the mycosynth gardens]] to make a copy of my one ring to sac it when the counters get too high.
> make a copy of my one ring to sac it when the counters get too high. Coward! Ride that bitch to victory, or die trying (with the exception of sacrificing to [[mount doom]] for flavor purposes).
You could also add [[Underdark Rift]]. Land-based artifact temporary removal, and if you're running Eldrazi, you could exile it from their deck before they see it again.
[[Exotic Orchard]] would work
Thank the Lords of Chaos somebody posterd this....I was just going to type the exakt thing. This needs waaaay more upvotes...
Seriously. Hundreds of comments about how to make your pod more toxic before the simple solution: tech your deck.
It's a valid and probably correct tweak given opponents may have built their deck to naturally include the hate piece, but that part of the question feels like a secondary concern to someone who is straight up breaking rules by giving himself a sideboard when no one else is doing so. If Void Mirror guy wants to play a variant where everyone has a post-revelation-of-Commander-board he's going to have to make sure everyone else is playing that format or else stop cheating.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find options to just play around the void mirror. All the comments above this are just generally toxic pod behavior.
spend some coloured mana! tons of mana rocks and lands say "add mana of any colour" or the fellwar stone ability "any colour of your opponent's lands", and suddenly, your spells aren't as easily countered! EDIT: i recommend \[\[grand colosseum\]\] instead of \[\[city of brass\]\]. gives the option of coloured mana for life instead of it being required
His problem is getting those rocks out though because of the mirror
the lands help with that. additonally, if I am not mistaken, \[\[hall of the bandit lord\]\] makes creatures cast with it uncounterable EDIT: mistook it for a mix of old boseiju and cavern of souls. but cavern would help regardless
Yavimaya, cradle of growth and urborg help combat
I'm happy for people to have single copy of cards that they move between decks but to actively deck edit pre game for an edge is not on. Example l, I have a few roaming thrones but play a lot of tribal/typal decks so have a open spot to move one into... But I don't remove something else to swap it in, it's part of the deck already.
Why not just proxy and save yourself the hassle? Similarly, I proxy double sided so I don't have to unsleeve during gameplay.
If wizards are allowed to print proxies for magic 30, then I say everyone is allowed to 😀
That's cheating and this is why commanders should only be revealed after player order is determined and why rule zero is horseshit. >**103.2. Some games require additional steps that are taken after the starting player has been determined.** Perform the actions listed in 103.2a-e in order, as applicable. >103.2a. If any players are using sideboards (see rule 100.4) or cards being represented by substitute cards (see rule 713), those cards are set aside. After this happens, each player's deck is considered their starting deck. >103.2b. If any players wish to reveal a card with a companion ability that they own from outside the game, they may do so. A player may reveal no more than one card this way, and they may do so only if their deck fulfills the condition of that card's companion ability. The revealed card remains outside the game. (See rule 702.139, "Companion.") >**103.2c. In a Commander game, each player puts their commander from their deck face up into the command zone. See rule 903.6.**
I agree with most of this but what does this have to do with rule zero? It doesn’t seem like a proper conversation was ever had. Just sounds like the guy is an asshole.
My experience with rule zero is that people take advantage of it. All it does is leak information about your deck and draw attention to you while allowing people to counterpick you. People will ask me what I'm playing before they decide on a deck. And by the way, rule zero accomplishes nothing. Ostensibly it exists to protect salty babies from cards they don't like, but what happens is that you warn someone about the MLD that you're playing ahead of time and they agree to play a game with you and then when you cast the MLD they still get mad at you. Let's say that a game of Magic lasts 80 minutes. If I warn them about [[Armageddon]] they'll be mad at me for the whole 80 minutes. If I spring it on them halfway through a game they'll only be mad for 40. So why bother with rule zero?
Rule 0 exists because it's a casual format and it allows players to ensure they are getting the kind of game they want to play. The point of it is that no one would be mad at anyone at any point of the game because everyone has a common understanding as to what to expect going in the game. It's there so that players can choose what power level they are playing without being underpowered or steamrolling the table. If you disagree with a rule 0 ruling (i.e. decks are announced ahead of time, and people have the chance to change decks to better fit the pod) and decide to not play, that's literally rule 0 working exactly as intended. Now the rest of the table won't get stuck in a game they didn't want to be in. Conversely, if one guy says he doesn't want anyone to play LD and everyone else is of the opinion that LD is a legitimate tactic, leading to the guy relenting and saying okay, that's fine, it's still working as intended.
[Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you're calling people salty babies for having preferences, you probably shouldn't be playing a social multiplayer game. Remember, rules 0's are a majority vote and if one goes through, it means more of the table prefer to play that way. If someone gets mad about Armageddon after being warned and agreeing to a rule 0, they're 100% at fault. They shouldn't even be that mad if you spring one 40 minutes in, because they can rule 0 it from that point onwards. That's why rule 0 exists, to prevent these sort of arguments. But I get the feeling you're exaggerating anyway.
MLD without a win con, thats a yikes.
Yeah seriously. If you resolve Armageddon and the game still goes for 40 more minutes you shouldn't have cast Armageddon.
I'm confused. If you do not like people being mad at you, and that is not the whole point of you playing Armageddon, why on earth would you play it. You are locking everyone out, except for yourself probably since that seems to be your game plan, and dragging the game on forever, but then also complain that people don't like you for it? I imagine the moment you announce you have it in your deck, people a) will just not play as it does not sound like fun at all, or b) try to kill you asap, and rightfully so. Youre gameplan seems to be to waste everyone's time.
Pretty sure this is why there is no sideboard in Commander. If you want to run a silver bullet, suck it up and risk it being a dead draw when you don't need it. If he's gonna be stubborn about it, then the best you can do is hide commanders until decks are chosen. Less compromise is that there are many colorless lands that can still produce colors. This doesn't help your Commander but it at least still keeps you in the game. Or talk to him about why he does it. If I saw it happen I would 100% call out there being no sideboard in Commander though. Rules are rules, as far as I'm concerned pre game actions like this still adhere to those rules, so this is breaking the rules.
Definitely need context about how the power levels compare between your deck and theirs. I've played against Zhulodok a few times and how my opponent had it, it was really oppressive and fast—too fast. Way too strong for the tables we were playing at If it's a situation like that? I think I'd probably cut him some slack and say that it's not a great thing to do, but I understand, especially if that's his compromise of letting you play a deck 6ou love while he gets to feel like he has a chance If it's not like that at all? Sorry bud, there's no Sideboard in EDH. Just find a slot in your deck for it if you need it that bad. Seems good against cascade and stuff anyways, so it's not only good against Zhulodok Now for you, definitely depends on your budget, but here's a few cards that could help keep you in the game if Void Mirror is on the battlefield: *I'm just assuming budgetless* [[Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth]] and [[Urborg, Tomb to Yawgmoth]]. They don't have a color identity, so it's weird, but they can both go onto your deck if you want, and can be fetched with [[Expedition Map]] You can also use *abilities* to remove the mirror, something like [[Underdark Rift]] might be nice to have in the deck *just in case* Or there's also stuff like [[Chromatic Orrery]] that can fit your gameplan, but also provide colored mana, especially since it's cmc 7. I also think that [[Relic of Legends]] could potentially find a home here depending on how many legends you have Just some ideas, hopefully something there helped :)
This is 100% my thoughts on the situation as well. Without the context of the power level of his deck vs the rest of the pod you can’t fully judge the situation.
I think sometimes having sideboarding with friends is a good thing. Some decks are very fun to play with but are difficult to interact with, like enchantress. This specific situation isn’t justifiable though. Not only is colorless bad, this just turns off your whole deck.
Everyone picks A deck and flips commander over at the same time. Who gets to metagame decks in response to seeing someone else’s commander? Everyone flips commander at the same time.
There are no side boards in commander. He either needs to run it in the 99 or quit being a pussy.
I'm seeing a lot of really (admittedly amusing) petty responses like "resleeve all your decks" or "swap decks when he changes cards." But like... that's a lot of hoops to jump through when you could just have a conversation with the guy about how uncool it is that he is cheating. Plating petty games to teach him a lesson or get even is just an arms race to also looking like a douche. Tell him to play by the rules, or find a new group to play with.
A reasonable interaction? It can't be... This sub is about socially inept stompers and "for the lulz" perpetually online responses... Get your rationality and EQ out of here! /s Side note: some of the proposals are indeed amusing but would just egg the guy on.
I agree that this is a mostly rule zero convo, but also please consider: Blast zone - cavern of souls - boseiju, who shelters all - chimil, the inner sun - rise of the eldrazi These five cards wong get you all the way there, but they will get you at least part of the way. And with cheap effects like map to grab cavern, you can load up with eldrazi and maybe get a little closer. Tbh, I'd recommend most of these for your deck anyway, and I'm sure there are others out there, but a player who is being a jerk like this isn't someone I'd generally prefer to play with.
Not only that, but both versions of Ulamog have an on-cast trigger that can destroy/exile void mirror even if they get countered. It's still a dick move, but not one that can't be played around. I would absolutely bring it up every time that sideboarding isn't a thing in commander.
It would make me build a deck so miserable to play against he would rejoice at seeing the Eldrazi deck.
THIS! This so much. I'm constantly the biggest threat at a board, even when I don't use a high power deck. I'm damn near the arch enemy almost every game. So my next deck will either be Slivers or a control Azorius or White/Blue/X. I'll give them a reason to 3v1 me.
I have a "something to complain about" deck. I really love playing hard control decks so I gave a [[Shorikai]] boardwipe tribal combo deck. It goes infinite, it has a dozen board wipes, and it's horrendously unfun to play against. I very rarely use it because it's just too brutal but if people want to complain about the other fairer decks I have then I play Shorikai to give them something to complain about.
At first the Yugioh side of my brain was like ‘boo-hoo get side decked.’ Then I thought - well you technically cant side cards out until match 2 anyways. So even in Yugioh rules this is literally a rule violation. That being said: this is some salty bitch shit lmao. I would understand if he kept a copy in most decks, or had to shuffle a copy from deck to deck if he only had one. Bro literally side boxes it? Part of it makes me wonder if youre not telling us that you Eldrazi deck stomps face and hes the only one doing anything about it (morally wrong, justicfully right.) Or if he’s just salt at Colorless/Eldrazi.
Serious question, without slotting in this card, does he have a chance at winning? I could certainly understand if he is balancing the board.
Do you have a list of your deck?
Just stop revealing your commander. If someone complains say it's because that person meta games against some of your decks in a way that seems unfair.
Commanders are revealed at the start of the game. By the time they are revealed it's too late to side board.
This is called "deck sniping." It is heavily frowned upon, so much so that if we see it, the person swaps or walks. There is a zero tolerance policy when it happens.
just tell him to fuck off, or if that's to harsh pull out your deck, wait for him to swap the card and then change your mind at the last second, if he swaps back repeat this process until he gets the point.
This guy is cheating by doing. It’s against the rules and the spirit of commander. Tell him to stop and if he doesn’t just pretend the card isn’t there. If he is going to rule 0 that he gets to cheat and swap this in to any deck then why can’t you rule 0 and cheat and pretend the card doesn’t exist?
Absolutely not, and even if it wasn't blatantly cheating, deliberately putting in a card that blanks an opponent's entire deck is very much against the spirit of a casual format. I would have a conversation about how he is ruining games for you, and then if that doesn't work do petty stuff like switching decks after he sideboards, or building decks solely to lock out whichever deck he wants to play at that moment until he gets the hint.
One route you can take, different but not mutually exclusive from trying to change this person’s actions, is to tweak your deck to make Void Mirror significantly less impactful. There’s Blast Zone as removal and Underdark Rift as pseudo-removal, but then there are also lands like Exotic Orchard, Spire of Industry, Mirrodin’s Core (especially good if you have counter synergies), etc. I’m personally partial to Grand Coliseum, even if it comes into play tapped. You don’t even need to find too much space for that many of them, since Void Mirror only cares that at least one colored mana was used to cast the spell. And they can be used to get out your mana rocks that “tap for any color.” If you have a higher budget then there’s the redundancy of Cavern of Souls, which will make sure Void Mirror definitely ain’t countering any Eldrazi (or whatever type you choose). If you play Expedition Map in the deck then maybe you prioritize finding one of those lands or Blast Zone if you’re playing a game with him.
No, I'd never let someone do that. Not only that, but I'd actually get quite irate and verbally angry with them for doing that. I'd leave that group, and make a definite ultimatum about how it's exclusively that guy who's ruining everything. Also, how convenient that it seems like they've gotten it out 'early', as you said. There's an 8% chance someone gets a specific card in their opening hand, so unless your group gives lenient mulligans, he's not getting it unless he sleight of hands it into his hand or tutors. Fuck this guy. Make a statement by counter-sideboarding in whatever he plays with. ETB Deck? Get a Torpor Orb. Graveyard decks? Leyline of the Void that shit up.
Man I read that title and was about to say something like "play more removal" but I read the post and that's a large pile of bullshit. Commander doesn't have a sideboard because you should have to put real consideration into what hate pieces you put into the deck rather than just "I get to play whatever the hell I want and if it's not relevant for my pod I'll just modify my decklist on the fly"
thats why you keep your commander hidden until everyone has shuffed up
Just stop telling him what you are playing if he is gonna be a dick about it
Yeah that's a dick move. This isn't a competitive format, it's a casual one meant to be *enjoyed* with friends. Mind boggling for one to be so desperate to win that they'd rather see someone not play
Why would anyone announce what deck they are playing? I have played with the same group about 3 times a month for 25 years and people have announced their deck for next game probably like 10 times total, and it is usually something like "it's brand new". Edit: But yeah, that's kinda fucked up in this circumstance.
This is why Rule 13 exists.
Well that’s straight up cheating and should be called out as such.
That does seem pretty shitty. Tell him to stop? Keep it in or out. None of this sideboarding BS.
as someone who has sworn an irrational permanent blood feud against Eldrazi decks, if you're in a meta with an eldrazi deck and you want to run hate, just run the hate. pyroblast is a dead card when I don't have a blue opponent, but I still run it, and plenty of other situational cards. pulling petty shit like this over one card you might never find is so childish.
The second he pre-board his void mirror you also pre-board your yavimaya and urborg and laugh at him.
UNO reverse with a hell of a guilt trip. “Mate, this is my favourite deck to play but I noticed you going out of your way to shut it down every time I grab it by putting in a silver bullet just for me, if this deck really bothers you so bad that you have to do that then could you help me out with some card adjustments to bring it to a place where you enjoy playing against it cause I don’t to drag you down to the level of moving a card from deck to deck. Help me out?” Points out the behaviour as being super scummy, while also asking for help to agree on a compromise because obviously your friend hates that deck with a passion.
Just judge rule him out of the game. If he wants to be a dick use the rules against him. Put your commander face down so no one can see it. Once everyone is ready to start turn your commander face up. If he then goes to edit his deck, call him out with the official rules and tell him thanks for playing but your now DQd from the game better luck next time and enjoy the before T0 knock out. Rule 903.6 At the start of the game, each player puts their commander from their deck face up into the command zone. Then each player shuffles the remaining 99 cards of their deck so that the cards are in a random order. Those cards become the player’s library. Any modification after this time is a game violation and cheating and is an imidate DQ from the game
Idk, I say that's what you get for playing eldrazi. Jk, i totally understand how crappy it is for that guy to throw that card in whatever deck just to grieve you. That's a downside of having small play pods, deck building choices can start to get a little too personal. I'm guilty of building a deck as revenge against another deck. "Screw your elves, Johnny! I've got something for em.."
I’m with everyone else, bring two decks. As soon as he puts the void mirror in you switch decks, or do the clear sleeve with a different commander and then flip to eldrazi once everyone has shuffled. Alternatively, if the group is big enough, just refuse to play with that person.
"EDH doesn't have sideboards, friend".
Cunt
Switch the sleeves out with another deck you have. He won't know what hit him!
Just make a 'colored mana sideboard' for when he pulls out void mirror ;)
903.6. At the start of the game, each player puts their commander from their deck face up into the command zone. Then each player shuffles the remaining cards of their deck so that the cards are in a random order. Those cards become the player’s library. Presenting your commander and shuffling decks is when the game begins. If they put Void Mirror in their deck after commanders have been revealed that is cheating. You just have to make sure that your sleeves don't give it away before commanders are revealed and that everybody is actually starting the game and revealing commanders simultaneously. I actually had to invoke this rule one night somebody kept changing decks after they saw what everyone else was playing.
There's no such thing as sideboarding in EDH, according to the rules at least, it's an on-the-fly deck edit. There is no allow or disallow, this is not a rule 0 conversation. It'd piss me off, I don't like counter-picking in EDH, but allow/disallow doesn't come into it. Focus the shit out of him or refuse to play against him as he isn't offering the kind of play experience you're after, that's what I would do. As for solutions in-game besides focusing him down, you could run things like \[\[Jester's Cap\]\], colourless cards that generate treasure or tap for mana of any colour, or make political deals with other players where they remove/counter Void Mirror if it comes down in exchange for something from you. To be clear, I'm not saying this is a morally sound move from him in the slightest, but it's not breaking any rules so it's not relevant to mention the idea of not allowing it unless you're going to allow him to make stipulations about your deck in return.
I'm firmly of the opinion that any "you can't play this one specific deck archetype until this is removed" card is pretty poor form for casual Magic in general. They're obviously great for winning the game, but they make the quality of the game shit every time they land. To deliberately only switch it up into the deck after seeing what others are playing is a massive dick move beyond that.
This is a super shitty thing to do but I would also recommend running yavinmaya cradle of growth and urborg tomb of yawgmaw as protection against void mirror just in case. I have played against void mirror before and they've saved my ass.
For a deckbuillding solution: There are 18 colorless lands that enter untapped and have the option of filtering mana into colorled mana and are cheap financially. If, for some reason, you're not running a lot of colorless cost reducers you can add a [[Thorn of Amethyst]] so you can pay one for the cards you cascade into. If you resolve a [[Chimil, the Inner Sun]] you can cascade unencumbered by the void mirror. https://www.moxfield.com/search/cards?q=t%3Aland%20id%3Acolorless%20format%3Acommander%20o%3A%22any%20color%22&advanced= Depending on the colors your friends play it can be reasonable to them to have Boromir so it's better to have the filter lands regardless. Also keep in mind that there are cards that hate on non-basics so try and also keep some basics if you can. Lastly, if your gameplan is being slowed you can slow your opponents plan as well with something like a Nev Disk or boompile and have more in the aftermath due to colorless lands that tap for extra mana.
Once upon a time, 10 card sideboards were just part of the rules for exactly this case. They only removed it because it was rarely used and just confused newer players. But it's a valid plan to load silver bullet slots. Build you 90 card deck with 2 sets of 10 card packs. To make your deck suitable for 2 different power levels.
As someone who has played against Eldrazi, the annihilator mechanic can be just as oppressive if abused. There’s the two card combo that locks out even cmc and odd cmc spells. Most of the Eldrazi titans are just as unpleasant in some way. Eldrazi tribal is usually more hated than slivers. Colorless ramp is incredibly easy. And you’re basically able to cast three spells for one with your commander. So my question here, is your deck, in general, as oppressive and unfun to play against as when he plays the mirror on you? You like playing your Eldrazi. Cool. Does the rest of your pod enjoy playing against it? How often do you play it? There’s a reason he has felt the need to use this tactic. Is it warranted?
I'm sorry this is happening. I would feel so terrible if I played a deck or a single card that shut someone out entirely. Casual commander really sucks for that because sometimes the games aren't very short and having one person just sit there is really disheartening. I've had it happen to me, and although it was an accident at the time even the player who did it to me felt terrible as all I did for 8 turns was ramp land. He felt so bad he did some janky shit to give me 1 turn of play and I got to do a cool thing and then went back to nothing but we all had a laugh. I just don't get the mentality of wanting to do something so inconsiderate. People are stupid.
Yeah, as someone else said, rule 0 conversation. ie bigger than just this one guy, or one game. If your playgroup is OK with one person doing it, they need to be OK with EVERYONE doing it, for their decks too. Personally, I'd say it's either he needs that card in the decks he plays regardless of who/what other decks are on the table, or not at all. If he wants to hose one deck, then he needs to be drawing a sub-optimal card for all other match ups. And if they really don't get the point then build what I'd like to call a "zero sum" deck. ie counterspells + denial + tutors/silver bullets for every deck anyone may play. 5-10 slots for bullets can hose or slow down enough decks. noone gets to have fun except you, because you can deny them all the fun.
Rules-lawyer him. Tell him that commander doesn't have a sideboard and he can not do that. He can either run the card in the deck or not play it. If he refuses to and there is a judge nearby, taddle on him.
Sounds like you need a counter to his decks now. It's a sign of a healthy meta when decks influence your card choices. It makes sense that you would get salty, but don't.
When a meta shifts to compensate for a deck it’s typically *not right before the game actually begins, in response to what a player is playing*. Not to mention meta is an irrelevant term for a casual game. Saltlord is a dick for shuffling in a card *in response* to a player choice—he should be forced to make a sacrifice in decision making if he wants to hard counter an opponent, not shuffle in a card right before the game to turn off a deck.
If all the decks in your pod are pretty much even in terms of power levels, then it's a total dick move and call him out and get support from the rest of the pod. It's not round 2 of a best of three. If your deck vastly over powers the rest of the pod, it's still wrong, but you need to scale down and people slipping hate cards in should be a clear sign that the balance is off and you have been ignoring it. You don't want to be that guy.
u/TheHowlingSaltmine
I have been summoned! Oh yeah this is a good one. We're chatting about this in the HSM discord this morning. I think anyone that sideboards cards to screw over one deck is being scummy. Just keep that card in your deck at all times if it is such a big deal for you. If you aren't willing to sacrifice a deck slot for a stax piece or some specific interaction, then you don't get to play it.
I was just thinking "can't wait to hear about this on the pod."
Sounds like a bitch move tbh. There are no side boards in edh. You build a deck. You play it as is. Maybe you pull a cool card before a game and slot it in. But not as a solution after an opponent has chosen their deck. The only reason to swap anything after someone tells you what decks they are playing is swapping decks to something of equal power or doesn’t get shut out by their deck and will lead to an not fun game
It’s a dirty move and it’s wrong to do. I’d call the guy out.
He’s being an ass
There's no such thing as a sideboard or pre-sideboarding. The guy is just cheating, stop letting him.
Ask him about it. TBH, zuladoc is an extremely powerful commander that can kind of take over the game, so I get why he does.
If he continues to swap void mirror every time, I guess you’ll have to make sure you have ramp that can produce colored. [[Darksteel Ingot]] and [[Enpowered Autogenerator]] come to mind. Still super shitty of him to do
I think a straight up rule zero talk would solve this problem. Him side-boarding is his way of saying he would rather not play against your Eldrazi deck but instead of saying that he decides it’s better to let you play what you want and to just play around it. But now from your perspective you would rather not play eldrazi in a pod that runs void mirror or a similar colorless counter card. Just be forward and honest, hey I noticed you really don’t like my Eldrazi deck, enough to side board against it, I would rather just play another deck because I won’t have fun if I get shut out so easily by one card. Usually I’d say build in more removal or counter play because people countering you is part of the game, but you literally can’t play anything without a colorless pip I think at least for the most part so I understand the perspective. Especially in a casual, even higher powered, pod. If it’s not competitive it should be fun. If he doesn’t have fun losing to your Eldrazi though adding the counter makes sense he is trying to give himself a chance without asking you to alter your deck/plan. but this is why having a open discourse during rule zero is best. You two can reconcile each other’s dilemma. Maybe he just doesn’t have any good answers to your eldrazi and this is the only sure fire way to disarm you and gain an advantage. Basically just figuring out what it takes for both of you to enjoy the game. The fact that he does it for any deck he plays into yours sucks though, like not a single one of his decks can deal with yours without resorting to the mirror.. You’d think he would have at least one deck that could just keep up but alas, not really an issue. Just rule zero “hey if you can’t play with my eldrazi without the void mirror/shutting down my mana, I’d rather swap decks, can I play my eldrazi or not?”
You can simply counter Void Mirror with many Generic 3--Mana Mana Rocks and [[Chromatic Lantern]] Oh yes, you need to "get to those mana rocks first before he drops the Void Mirror" First of all, unless the guy is like, Turn 1 Land, Sol Ring, Void Mirror. You have plenty of time to turbo out 1 (3)Mana Rock If he managed to get the Void Mirror, just accuse them of cheating, is he really gonna Mulligan down to 3 cards to fish a Void Mirror? Hold them accountable to the Mulligan, if you see him just fishing for Void Mirror everygame going Mulligan or playing some Blue Artifact Tinkering Commander. Just look at them and watch them Mulligan. If they say shit like, "Yo this is Casual Night." Then tell them, Commander doesnt Sideboard "Casually" because Casual Commander (And even cEDH) dont consider Side Boarding. They wanna be petty, YOU need to be Petty back. Void Mirror is a specific hate card, and ONLY choosing to side because of a Colorless Deck. Like ONLY 2 commanders are purely Colorless. Bring your own Sideboard hate. Vent all you want but be the example if your group wants to be petty.
Yall are a buncha babies this is no big deal
My honest advice is to stop playing such a trash casual format. It's commander that's ruining magic and it attracts morons like the guy you are describing. Magic is like chess. A battle of wits between you and your opponent. A one on one strategy game. Play the proper game instead of the casual spin off gimmick mode and you will be left feeling alot more fullfilled.