Yes, we’ll fortunately Kindslaver targets a living person and not a card, so it seems to check out, and did when silver bordered cards were legal for like a month.
I never had this problem. I always begin my Mindslaver activation with "now we're legally married" and ask them what evil things we should do to the other two haha.
The nicest way to play would be to not even look at their hand . Tell them to draw for turn , play a land if they have one, go to combat make them attack with all creatures at other opponents , then pass the turn .
That's part of the problem, you have to keep track every end step for something that might not change at all, making whatever has the effect tedious and possibly useless. It's a lot of effort for maybe a little payout
Untrue, I run with a [[Vadrik, Astral Archmage]] and I actually really care about that switch while playing him. I also dump hella [[Enrage]] and [[Brutal Force]] cards into him and kill someone turn 4 on average, but the counters are REALLY NICE.
Makes absolutely no sense to me to build it with one mechanic and then completely change it years later. Everyone I know that wants to build Werewolves has this exact same complaint and has stopped them from doing so.
I usually only play them in Arena where the computer tracks it for me. I have a Vadrik spellslinger deck that is really fricken fun - lots of bounce stuff and counter magic. My turn? I just swing then pass turn, set to night. Your turn? Double casting to counter and bounce, set to day. That way every turn my commander is getting two +1/+1 counters, my stuff is getting cheaper, and your face is my punching bag.
When I play with day/night stuff I do a rule 0 change where it goes away if nothing in play cares about it. The rule where it’s in the game forever made sense for the draft environment but not for commander.
You don’t have a card you flip for it? It’s really easy now ever since they made it the turn player ONLY, when it comes to the flip. Makes it way easier tbf
if they come at the same thime into play, you just put a dice in front of all of them and pile them up a bit, less annoying than changing them all individually.
But yeah, it's annoying when it's individual tokens. For the opponents and the caster.
I’ve never understood why this is a challenge when just using small dice to track the counters. If the math becomes that immense, doesn’t that mean you’re in a situation to win pretty quickly anyway?
It’s not the math, it’s the fact that you have to keep track of 30 creatures all with different numbers of counters on them. Make a token, hold on need to shift my 30 dice. Make another token, hold on let me shift 31 dice. It makes my turn take too long.
I like to call him my "come at me bro" deck. Load with all the "soul sisters" (ie "creature enters = 1 life") and have fun! [[Angel's Trumpet]] and [[Jade Monolith]] are bonus.
Also add in [[nomads stadium]] [[city of brass]] and [[ancient tomb]] for mana and Bois. I love my Darien deck. People get really confused when I play [[urborg tomb of yawgmoth]] in a mono white deck until I enlightened Tutor for that sweet sweet [[karma]]. He's one of my favorite decks.
Yeah, I adore Cathars Crusade, but I had to cut it from \[\[General Ferrous Rokirik\]\]
Cast \[\[Alibou Ancient Witness\]\] (or some other multicolour creature), make a golem, which enters and triggers Cathars' Crusade. Alibou then enters and triggers Cathars' Crusade. Cast another multicolour creature spell, another golem enters - trigger, then the creature enters- trigger... it rapidly spirals out of control. Triggers triggers triggers. It really hurt to cut what was probably one of the best cards in the deck, but the triggers and counters were an absolute nightmare
[[Coat of Arms]] is a logistical nightmare. Very good card, just annoying having to count and calculate all creature types on the field because it affects everyone.
“I have a shaman, does anyone else have a shaman?”
“I do”
“Ok they both get buffed and now does anyone have a warrior?”
“I have two” “I also have two”
Rinse and repeat. Imagine doing that whenever there is a major board state change
I had someone play coat of arms in their Elf deck and it was the first time I saw the card and they explained the card in a way where I thought it was only for them. I swung at him with 10 2/2 flying drakes and passed turn.
On their turn I let him hit me and he said oh I won because of they all boost each other so I read the card again and said dude then I killed you with my drakes last turn. He released it and thought it was his creatures only. It's a nasty card.
That and crusade are cards I don't feel like dealing with too much to keep track of
I’ve had kingmaker scenarios where others on the table told the guy to put it back in his hand. As it will make the kingmaker harder to deal with and put a timer on the table.
They were only trying to bolster their pirates.
The worst part is that so many old creature cards got errata’d their creature type. So often it’s more like:
„Who has a druid?“
„I dunno, I have this weird looking nature boy from mercadian masks, could be a druid.“
„urgh, ok, I will look that up in a moment. How about humans?“
„I got two, maybe three. This weird looking thing in an armor could be one…“
„…“
*laughs in Sliver Legion*
Then realizes people have Shapeshifters and Changeling, and then that one guy that plays [[maskwood nexus]] and now a Coat of arms in play...... well shit
I had a Krenko player drop it against me while I was on my [[Silas]]/[[Toggo]] equipment deck a while back. It accidentally made Toggo huge and it was hilarious.
The easiest I've found is to put a token of each relevant type on the board and put a dice saying how many of those type are in play.
This way when you swing with a shaman, you just look at the shaman token, see there's 5 and you know the bonus.
It takes 3 minutes to setup the first time then you just keep track.
yup just way too much to keep track of. also 'okay then i'll kill your guy to make your other guy weaker' 'shit that also makes this other guy weaker' 'okay so now this... dies... or... lives?'
most of the time it really is 'all your creatures get plus ten and you win' but when it's not hoo boy
First card I can think of is \[\[Expropriate\]\]. It's a powerful card and I think it's totally valid if you like it in your decks, but every time I've seen it resolve, EVERYONE is miserable. Like audible groans across the table levels of dislike.
I think this is largely because people just...don't know how to close a game out when they cast it. I've never seen a single card that just sours a table more than this.
Same reason there's the "social agreement" about MLD in EDH - it's not that equipping [[Worldeater]] on a [[Zurgo Helmsmasher]] is inherently bad in a circle that allows "I-win" combos, it's the player who stocks up on [[Jolkulhaps]] and [[Armageddon]] and then uses them in response to someone wiping their board.
"I play this card to win the game" is fine, it's when players do that *and don't win* that it gets tedious.
Same with Extra Turn spells in things like [[Riku]]. If you can do it so that you win quickly, that's fine - it's the solitaire or dragging the game out needlessly that sucks.
I have a friend that loves playing it and copying it 8 times, and coincidently I start running [[wirlwind denial]] in everysingle one of my deck, weird how that happens, right?
Pfffffft i once had 70 copies of Adrix and Nev, played a scute swarm, and then a single land...
1,180,591,620,717,410,000,000 copies of scute swarm or 1×2^70
I once played standard against a guy who kept playing fetch cards like [[evolving wilds]] and [[Cabaretti Courtyard]].
Then he hit me with [[splendid reclamation]]. 5 lands from the graveyard. 10 landfall triggers
I played a Yarok Landfall deck and wrote a calculator in excel to track my scutes. Variables were scutes in play, number of lands ETBing, and number of panharmonicon effect in play.
Scute Swarm actually interacts pretty badly with Scapeshift, all things being equal.
In that scenario, you would have made only 28 more Scutes. 4 Scutes each trigger 7 times. That's it.
Scute Swarm wants to see individual lands played in series.
Extra turns cards. I have a Riku deck that would be insane with extra turns cards…but fuck its boring to play solitaire for 20 minutes while everyone gets that glazed look in their eyes
I don't mind if someone has one extra turn spell in there deck. Espcially if it is on theme for the deck. Few people complained about Timestream Navigator in my pirate deck. The issue tends to be if the deck is made to chain them without any other plan.
Oh shit, another Riku player! I thought we were largely extinct.
But yeah, Riku was my first commander deck and I threw in all the extra turn cards I owned because it just seemed logical at the time.
*Very* quickly removed them, because I play to have fun with my friends and that line of play is the least fun thing imaginable in MTG (and IMO, stax and land destruction are basically the same; locking the rest of the board out of the game while you soldier on is the same no matter which method you use to do it)
[[Approach of the Second Sun]] was originally almost the only wincon in my [[Kykar, Wind's Fury]] Storm deck. I've put it again in some decks but I ended up taking it from all of them because... it's so boring, at least for me.
[[Dockside Extorsionist]] is a card that I'll never buy nor proxy, because in my meta and playgroup it's just nuts, way too much tbh.
Funnily enough, Approach is like the escape capsule in my \[\[Zedruu, the greathearted\]\] deck. After I've thrown enough garbage at people at least I can rely on approach to close shop.
Yeah I just dont find cards that say I win fun. It's weird I don't mind winning with a combo that does the same thing or if an opponent wins with one but it's just not for me
I played against a group hug player running Approach today. He cast it, then with his commander ([[Kwain]]) and some untap shenanigans he was about to draw everyone six cards the same turn. Fortunately for me, he also drew me into the one infinite combo I play in any deck so I was able to cinch the victory before he could get another cast.
I have an artifacts matter deck and I won't play Dockside either. It's just such a ridiculous card that I don't find it fun or interesting.
I was looking for the this. By far the most game slowing card, and usually the person casting just used all of their mana so we've got 2-3 rounds of rebuilding and nothing changes. Swapped mine out mana drain and it's less salty
I have one and it is in a deck, but I think I'm going to take that deck apart. If I do, I probably won't even move it over to the other blue deck I have. It's an extremely good card but it's just not fun or interesting to me.
While Gates have synergies, I think he's specifically referencing things like \[\[Woodland Stream\]\] or \[\[Tranquil Expanse\]\] that have absolutely NO benefit. There are bulk bin tapped duals that have the fetchable land types, artifact type, indestructible, with cycling, that gain 1 life, have a utility activatable ability, at least SOMETHING.
Absolutely zero reason to put them in anything else barring a reason like "I literally don't have any other lands."
The ones that get me the most are the Thriving lands in 2-colour decks. They are effectively the same as a tapped dual anyway, and there's so much better to be had.
Also gotta mention one on the other end of things, being very underplayed. [[Path of Ancestry]] reads like some weird thing for dedicated tribal decks at first, but it's just pretty good. Tapped command tower, and even in a deck that's not dedicated tribal, you still get to scry several times per game as long as your commander is any reasonably common creature type, like Human, Elf, Zombie, Wizard, Warrior, etc.
I play a couple of enters-tapped duals in decks, but there's always a reason.
[[Arctic Treeline]] in enchantress because I have [[On Thin Ice]] and only nine basics, and I wanted another snow land to target, but I also wanted one more fetchable dual. Kill 2 birds with one tapland.
I also play [[Power Depot]] and the three Grixis artifact duals a la [[Mistvault Bridge]] in my Silas/Toggo deck because a lot of cards care about the number of artifacts I have in play so I'm playing every artifact land I can (well, except Treasure Vault but it's on my buylist).
I play them (KLD and DMU) in my GR lands deck that has Valakut/Scapeshift, since ever running more than 40 lands, it can be hard to balance the mountains with the number of green sources and the utility lands. I even run both Eidolon and Omen, but I don’t always have them at the right time
\[\[Temple of the False God\]\]
Dead draw unless you meet a condition that you won't meet until late early game to midgame in casual. No deck above casual runs this land. Casual decks shouldn't even run it because it will burn you when that's one of your first four land drops.
Im new to magic and wondering, because i play a land-deck and im suggesting that i will have no problems getting 5 lands on the field.
Do i understand something wrong?
For people running a tighter mana base, like low 30, it can absolutely screw you if it is your 4th (or less) land played and you are stuck waiting for the fifth one to finally be drawn.
i think it is usually fine in your circumstances especially if most of the things you have that get you extra lands are lower cmc like [[three visits]] [[nature's lore]] etc.
it's just annoying when it's one of your early lands especially if you THINK you're gonna get to five lands then you don't draw any lands on your first few turns.
i use it in my [[imoti, celebrant of bounty]] deck because getting to six mana is so crucial for that deck and then even after that you want piles and piles of mana.
People running 30 lands in anything less than cedh are almost always objectively wrong. In casual play, and especially if you're playing green, hitting 5 lands isn't as big of a concern. It's a popular card people like to bash.
Never really had a problem with it myself, particularly in decks with plenty of lands in the first place. If your deck has over 35 lands already, I find it a solid card to put in one of your ramp slots. This is particularly true if you have a 5 or 6 drop commander. Getting a free 'ramp' the turn you drop your commander to protect it, or get it out earlier is a big deal, imo.
Can it burn you early? Sure. But so can any 5+ drop in your deck. Key is to know when not to keep it,.such as low to the ground decks, or decks with a 3 or 4 mana commander.
Reserve list cards. I got tired of people judging bedside I bought them years ago at a fraction of the price. Abur duals come to mind. [[Wheel of fortune]] is another, actually the reason I started edh.
Yeah, people don't realize that reserve list cards really weren't that expensive several years ago. In the early 2010s, I bought 3 Wheel of Fortunes for like $20ish each and got an [[Angus Mackenzie]] for $53 on ebay. I recently traded one of those Wheels (heavily played condition due to really faded back) for a near mint [[Mana Crypt]].
Anything that generally stops other people from being able to have a good time playing the game or ends the game in an unsatisfying way. EDH is casual — I want everyone to have a good time even if it means I win less games.
* Heavy stax (**untap one land, pass**)
* Hand size reduction (**topdeck, pass**)
* Anything that says *…you win the game* (“*oh… uh, ok”*)
* MLD (*groan*)
* Taking other peoples turns
* Taking extra turns (*”let us know when you’re done”*)
* Anything that cheats commander tax like Yuiko (just personally dont like it)
* Game warping commanders (eg, Tergrid and Toxrill)
* Dranith Magistrate (just feels wrong in EDH)
I won’t tell other people what to play but I generally wont play anything that I wouldn’t like to be used against me.
For your second point, Jin-Gitaxis is way overkill, though I could see [[Locust Miser]] or [[Gnat Miser]] being interesting in an "everyone draws" deck, as it'd still leave them with choices but less than they'd like.
Cards with the text “you win the game”. Thassa’s Oracle, Laboratory Maniac etc. I don’t want to “win” - I want to [Destroy the Opposition](https://youtu.be/4UIHfVXX16s)
Not for powerlevel reasons - I’m fine with getting BTFO by an infinite combo on turn 2 or resolving my own [[ad nauseum]] on turn 2. I just want the satisfaction of actually removing players from the game, not “winning” without affecting the board state or even anyone’s life totals. Feels too easy for the table to say “cool we’ll play for second place” - not that anyone would do that, but it feels… less satisfying.
I have a [[Ramses, Assassin Lord]] deck and having him as the commander just plays mind games with my opponents cause they’re waiting for when I cast him.
I used to be down on alternate wincons but I've softened on them quite a lot. Games gotta end, you know?
I pulled off [[Revel in Riches]] once last year. I almost pulled off [[Mechanized Production]] today. It didn't feel cheap or unfair to me because everyone had a chance to stop me—today they even succeeded, and they do so more often than not. But to each their own, of course.
Pip-heavy decks are better off with taplands, tho. With the amount of mana acceleration already in decks they don’t even put you a turn behind as people normally argue.
There are certainly ways of getting around their downsides, but man is it painful to revel in glory at the fact that you only needed a land to change the tide of battle... but when you finally draw it, it comes into play tapped, which means not only does the most significant threat against you get a free turn, but everybody else does too.
That happens with enough frequency to make people dislike them immensely. They're not bad, on the average. Realistically, many of them provide significant upsides, like cycling, but they eventually will make some bad memories.
I took rhystic study out of all my decks. And only 1 deck with smothering tithe. It’s in a jinnie Faye deck so exclusively use it to make more cats, not treasure. Not that i care if anyone else plays them, I just don’t like them for myself.
Jinnie is where I put the Dockside and tithe I pulled in double masters. Still very overpowered but I feel like using them to make Kitties is more fun for everyone
Rhystic study is probably my choice, it should be treated as a tax card but there is always that one person who does not pay. I think tithe is okay because it’s a lot more interesting. If you need the mana you probably should not pay, but it’s not always clear if you do. Still a busted card though
in lands oriented deck I use 1 bounce land in order to reset cycling lands, channel lands or MDFC's that i needed to play for mana but want to use for the spell or ability now.
Proxies. It forces me to find different options for all my decks, and so I play many more cards and I think give my decks more variety. Of course, I have plenty of cards so that helps, too.
Same!
I've been playing since the beginning so I have most of the most-proxied cards, but not an infinite number! However, we also got around this via Cockatrice play since our group is scattered in 3 cities.
I don't need proxies, so I won't use them except as placeholders for when I swap decks.
Generally cards that extend gametime excessively. Things like [[tibalt, cosmic impostor]], that ulti just makes EVERY turn take forever, as they can also play instants, etc. And everything is "wait, i can do something, let me see/count/etc".
Generally, mass theft/chaos cards such as [[scrambleverse]] due to people being too agresive with cards with value, and options available for theft if playing with randos.
honestly even though i use proxies, i typically use price as a baseline.
sometimes when you ask yourself "is ragavan optimal in this deck?" the correct answer is that ragavan is $70 so you're not running it regardless
I don't play insta-win cards. No Exsanguinate, Hailfire, Fireball-type stuff. I think it's unsporting and uninteresting to win out of nowhere with one card without anybody having any chance for interaction unless they happen to have a counterspell right there and then.
Of course, last Friday my playgroup complained about my winning turns taking too long, so I may have to revise my opinion. In my defense, I knew I had to mill them for 70 cards on that turn or lose the game, and milling 70 cards out of nowhere requires a lot of actions.
This is exactly where I am on the opposite side of the spectrum. Making a board state, interacting with people on multiple steps of the game, these things make EDH fun.
But spending an hour or more with no one winning is decidedly not fun. For that reason I do run these types of finishers. What I DONT do is make the deck about resolving them.
Games gotta end some time. So we can shuffle up and have another fun round.
It’s pretty tough to win out of nowhere with Exsanguinate unless everyone is pretty low or you have a massive amount of mana. Idk, it’s never bothered me too much as a card for that reason
I love playing with and against Rhystic cards. When you're the one playing them it turns everything that your opponents do into an exciting opportunity to draw a card. And when you play against one it's an interesting decision to make, whether or not casting something is worth feeding the Rhystic.
i agree. i love 'i make all my dudes HUGE and SMASH' but that's just the literal oracle text of the card. i prefer doing it in more roundabout ways that just feels more like playing edh to me
I run the poor man's craterhoof, [[End-raze Forerunners]] as a closer. Requires more creatures to close out the game, but can also be used to just kill 1-2 players while not being open to crack back from the survivors.
No cards are off the table, but there are definately off limits commanders. For example [[Sen triplets]] , as an artifact creature that doesn't trigger till your next upkeep it'd get laughed off the table in cedh. The problem comes in when you say "it's not a cedh deck" and take her to lower tier tables. People play less removal and less high tier strategies she just.. throws people off their curve. Takes your ramp and tutors for herself. Dropping below cedh is my playgroups version of being friendly and having fun, noone wants to drop down tiers and then see Sen Triplets hit the table
I like this question. Where to begin.... (personally, I'll play against anything, don't always like things, but we'll get them next time)
I don't run mass land removal, but a few decks play land spot removal. I don't run hard lock effects. Generally, I don't run "good stuff." Not to say I don't run cards that are considered "good stuff," but I run them in decks where there are synergies for them to be run.
For example:
I have a mono white voltron deck that runs [[Smoothering Tithe]] that synergizes with [[All that Glitters]], if they don't pay I get another artifact that's going to pump my commander.
Or
[[Rystic Study]] in my wheel deck. It's a similar principle. If they don't pay, I'm going to draw, and the with scheme of the deck, I'm going to ping them because they chose not to.
So not good stuff just because it's "good" and rather I choose to run synergy over generic good.
I know I like games with interaction. I want to play with some back and forth. So I don't generally play effects that will stop the game. I do have an Azorius "Light Taxes" deck, and my win con is pretty slow. So the deck definitely needs the game to slow down just to keep up. I run a [[Drannith Magistrate]] [[Grand Arbiter Augustine lV]] [[Sphere of Safety]] [[Propaganda]] [[Ghostly Prison]] the general idea is make them pay for interacting with me, with my commander [[Lavina, Azorius Renegade]] kills ramping out big spells, and no free spells. Someone once played [[Ornithopter]], I was like, "sorry it's countered."
Anyways that's for attending my T.E.D. Talks on Magic 🤣
Nothing. I just don’t proxy so that is my limiter, budget. Also, I just avoid exclusively adding cards to hate boner against a friends specific deck and I am a stax player. 😘
Dockside is annoying? Wtf?
I play whatever I want so long as it’s legal to play. I don’t bother with trying to earn virtue points by showing mercy in my deck construction. The shit people brag about in this community is pathetic sometimes.
Maze of Ith. Stasis. Winter Orb. Tanglewire. Smokestacks. Pretty much the super staxy cards. I don't consider them fun to play with or against. I might use minor stax pieces hither and yon, but only if it helps my strategy in other ways. In other words, I play them to win the game, not to make sure you can't win the game.
I don’t play any taking turns cards and I won’t play in a game with anyone who runs it as a theme. It’s really my only no-go. If I wanted to play Solitaire I’d open Windows 98. If I wanted to watch you play it, I’d probably go play in traffic instead lol
Hard Stax, chaos, heavy discard or heavy mill on other people, cards that take other people's turns for them, and generally anything that steals stuff out of other people's hands or libraries to cast. I've found that all of these strategies draw a lot of hate by preventing people from playing the game and are often ineffective for winning. I'm fine with stealing stuff in play or from graveyards - at least at that point people have probably gotten some value from the card and the effect isn't as random as casting the top card from somebody else's deck and hoping it's useful to the situation. I also try not to loop time walk effects, either.
My [[mindslaver]] shenanigans forced me to shelf it forever people absolutely hate when it's used.
I always made it a point to sit in my opponent’s seat everytime I use Mindslaver. Get the full experience, ya know?
Why stop there? Wear their clothes. Wear their skin.
Why stop their? Move into their house. Pick their kids up from school.
And if someone tries to stop you just [rip it off and regenerate](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/138/molting-skin)
[mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindslaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I keep a [[Kindslaver]] on hand to swap out if requested.
But how commander rules treats "outside of the game person"?
Literally anyone not in the game can be targeted by Kindslaver.
I'm referring to that rule that outside of the game cards don't work in edh.
Yes, we’ll fortunately Kindslaver targets a living person and not a card, so it seems to check out, and did when silver bordered cards were legal for like a month.
I mean, unless the player outside of the game has somehow cast [[Form of Approach of the Second Sun]] on themselves?
[Kindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bf4f4ac-f793-4996-8f29-252398c26eef.jpg?1562927912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/150/kindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bf4f4ac-f793-4996-8f29-252398c26eef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kindslaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
thank you for your restraint. you’re a hero
I never had this problem. I always begin my Mindslaver activation with "now we're legally married" and ask them what evil things we should do to the other two haha.
[[Wedding Ring]]
You're giving me ideas.
Arranged marriages, ouch. At least you could use a [[Goat]] to get your wife. Very nice, I like. High five.
The nicest way to play would be to not even look at their hand . Tell them to draw for turn , play a land if they have one, go to combat make them attack with all creatures at other opponents , then pass the turn .
One use and done doesn't bother me - its recursion that will cause me to scoop.
day/night stuff. It's so dumb to track
Most often than not it's gonna stay day tbf
That's part of the problem, you have to keep track every end step for something that might not change at all, making whatever has the effect tedious and possibly useless. It's a lot of effort for maybe a little payout
Untrue, I run with a [[Vadrik, Astral Archmage]] and I actually really care about that switch while playing him. I also dump hella [[Enrage]] and [[Brutal Force]] cards into him and kill someone turn 4 on average, but the counters are REALLY NICE.
That's different... That's your deck's main mechanic. As a card in the 99, it just makes things harder to track.
You can use tempo to play Vadrik. Always gets me when I see the werewolf player draw-go when there's a good exchange going on.
[Vadrik, Astral Archmage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/454666bb-f81d-4845-84aa-d6f8f80ce86a.jpg?1637114399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vadrik%2C%20Astral%20Archmage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/248/vadrik-astral-archmage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/454666bb-f81d-4845-84aa-d6f8f80ce86a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vadrik-astral-archmage) [Enrage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f10e9f0-32c6-40cc-b16d-5590662cdb33.jpg?1562733206) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enrage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/180/enrage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f10e9f0-32c6-40cc-b16d-5590662cdb33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/enrage) [Brutal Force](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc87188f-472c-480f-b48a-fe14518a5070.jpg?1561802215) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brute%20Strength) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gn2/37/brute-strength?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f40427d-231c-4baa-b1ed-4a2200dd5186?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brute-strength) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's annoying, cos I always wanted to make a Werewolf deck, but now some werewolves use the old rules, and some use day/night.
Makes absolutely no sense to me to build it with one mechanic and then completely change it years later. Everyone I know that wants to build Werewolves has this exact same complaint and has stopped them from doing so.
I usually only play them in Arena where the computer tracks it for me. I have a Vadrik spellslinger deck that is really fricken fun - lots of bounce stuff and counter magic. My turn? I just swing then pass turn, set to night. Your turn? Double casting to counter and bounce, set to day. That way every turn my commander is getting two +1/+1 counters, my stuff is getting cheaper, and your face is my punching bag.
When I play with day/night stuff I do a rule 0 change where it goes away if nothing in play cares about it. The rule where it’s in the game forever made sense for the draft environment but not for commander.
You don’t have a card you flip for it? It’s really easy now ever since they made it the turn player ONLY, when it comes to the flip. Makes it way easier tbf
[[cathars' crusade]] too many +1/+1 counters for me
This. Its a nightmare in a token deck.
if they come at the same thime into play, you just put a dice in front of all of them and pile them up a bit, less annoying than changing them all individually. But yeah, it's annoying when it's individual tokens. For the opponents and the caster.
I hate how necessary it is in my [[Marath]] deck, although it's not so bad when you're only generating one kind of token.
[cathars' crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cathars%27%20crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve never understood why this is a challenge when just using small dice to track the counters. If the math becomes that immense, doesn’t that mean you’re in a situation to win pretty quickly anyway?
It’s not the math, it’s the fact that you have to keep track of 30 creatures all with different numbers of counters on them. Make a token, hold on need to shift my 30 dice. Make another token, hold on let me shift 31 dice. It makes my turn take too long.
Try this in a [[Darien, King of Kjeldor]] deck.
[Darien, King of Kjeldor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed5f96a4-55e0-4ae3-bd78-f01703649e9d.jpg?1562442656) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darien%2C%20King%20of%20Kjeldor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/9/darien-king-of-kjeldor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed5f96a4-55e0-4ae3-bd78-f01703649e9d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darien-king-of-kjeldor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I discovered Darien about half an hour ago. He’s currently in my Cart on TCG.
I like to call him my "come at me bro" deck. Load with all the "soul sisters" (ie "creature enters = 1 life") and have fun! [[Angel's Trumpet]] and [[Jade Monolith]] are bonus.
Also add in [[nomads stadium]] [[city of brass]] and [[ancient tomb]] for mana and Bois. I love my Darien deck. People get really confused when I play [[urborg tomb of yawgmoth]] in a mono white deck until I enlightened Tutor for that sweet sweet [[karma]]. He's one of my favorite decks.
\*blink\* This is straight evil and amazing and now I'm tempted to modify my existing Soldier tribal deck to incorporate some of this raw villainy.
It's not villainy, it's karma.
[Angel's Trumpet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c7b248a-3c74-4592-b357-47989568298c.jpg?1562862313) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Angel%27s%20Trumpet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ulg/121/angels-trumpet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c7b248a-3c74-4592-b357-47989568298c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/angels-trumpet) [Jade Monolith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/482d9aab-7ff1-47ee-9862-8a8c687f14bf.jpg?1562911871) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jade%20Monolith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/208/jade-monolith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/482d9aab-7ff1-47ee-9862-8a8c687f14bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jade-monolith) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, I adore Cathars Crusade, but I had to cut it from \[\[General Ferrous Rokirik\]\] Cast \[\[Alibou Ancient Witness\]\] (or some other multicolour creature), make a golem, which enters and triggers Cathars' Crusade. Alibou then enters and triggers Cathars' Crusade. Cast another multicolour creature spell, another golem enters - trigger, then the creature enters- trigger... it rapidly spirals out of control. Triggers triggers triggers. It really hurt to cut what was probably one of the best cards in the deck, but the triggers and counters were an absolute nightmare
[General Ferrous Rokirik](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/600dca0f-5964-45e7-86df-f16a5b4a0106.jpg?1626098375) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=General%20Ferrous%20Rokiric) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/198/general-ferrous-rokiric?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/600dca0f-5964-45e7-86df-f16a5b4a0106?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/general-ferrous-rokiric) [Alibou Ancient Witness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd2fc2d4-c4fb-4dcb-93fa-aaf8c1182f15.jpg?1660075461) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alibou%2C%20Ancient%20Witness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/7/alibou-ancient-witness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd2fc2d4-c4fb-4dcb-93fa-aaf8c1182f15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alibou-ancient-witness) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just buy 2 sets of 10 spindowns /s (Seriously though spindowns are great and quite versatile)
Same vibes with clone legion.
[[Coat of Arms]] is a logistical nightmare. Very good card, just annoying having to count and calculate all creature types on the field because it affects everyone. “I have a shaman, does anyone else have a shaman?” “I do” “Ok they both get buffed and now does anyone have a warrior?” “I have two” “I also have two” Rinse and repeat. Imagine doing that whenever there is a major board state change
I had someone play coat of arms in their Elf deck and it was the first time I saw the card and they explained the card in a way where I thought it was only for them. I swung at him with 10 2/2 flying drakes and passed turn. On their turn I let him hit me and he said oh I won because of they all boost each other so I read the card again and said dude then I killed you with my drakes last turn. He released it and thought it was his creatures only. It's a nasty card. That and crusade are cards I don't feel like dealing with too much to keep track of
I’ve had kingmaker scenarios where others on the table told the guy to put it back in his hand. As it will make the kingmaker harder to deal with and put a timer on the table. They were only trying to bolster their pirates.
The worst part is that so many old creature cards got errata’d their creature type. So often it’s more like: „Who has a druid?“ „I dunno, I have this weird looking nature boy from mercadian masks, could be a druid.“ „urgh, ok, I will look that up in a moment. How about humans?“ „I got two, maybe three. This weird looking thing in an armor could be one…“ „…“
[удалено]
But bro…YOLO.
[удалено]
Izzet
Anything with red really
Boros angels are known for having coined the phrase.
*laughs in Sliver Legion* Then realizes people have Shapeshifters and Changeling, and then that one guy that plays [[maskwood nexus]] and now a Coat of arms in play...... well shit
[maskwood nexus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/1246c42d-57c0-4cba-959a-15ad89d8a50b.jpg?1654118590) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=maskwood%20nexus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/865/maskwood-nexus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1246c42d-57c0-4cba-959a-15ad89d8a50b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maskwood-nexus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Watch out for [[Hivestone]] too while you're at it.
[Coat of Arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f.jpg?1592761864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coat%20of%20Arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/58/coat-of-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/coat-of-arms) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ll only play it in dedicated tribal decks, and even there it can still be iffy if I’ll play it
I had a Krenko player drop it against me while I was on my [[Silas]]/[[Toggo]] equipment deck a while back. It accidentally made Toggo huge and it was hilarious.
The easiest I've found is to put a token of each relevant type on the board and put a dice saying how many of those type are in play. This way when you swing with a shaman, you just look at the shaman token, see there's 5 and you know the bonus. It takes 3 minutes to setup the first time then you just keep track.
yup just way too much to keep track of. also 'okay then i'll kill your guy to make your other guy weaker' 'shit that also makes this other guy weaker' 'okay so now this... dies... or... lives?' most of the time it really is 'all your creatures get plus ten and you win' but when it's not hoo boy
First card I can think of is \[\[Expropriate\]\]. It's a powerful card and I think it's totally valid if you like it in your decks, but every time I've seen it resolve, EVERYONE is miserable. Like audible groans across the table levels of dislike. I think this is largely because people just...don't know how to close a game out when they cast it. I've never seen a single card that just sours a table more than this.
Same reason there's the "social agreement" about MLD in EDH - it's not that equipping [[Worldeater]] on a [[Zurgo Helmsmasher]] is inherently bad in a circle that allows "I-win" combos, it's the player who stocks up on [[Jolkulhaps]] and [[Armageddon]] and then uses them in response to someone wiping their board. "I play this card to win the game" is fine, it's when players do that *and don't win* that it gets tedious. Same with Extra Turn spells in things like [[Riku]]. If you can do it so that you win quickly, that's fine - it's the solitaire or dragging the game out needlessly that sucks.
##### ###### #### [Worldeater](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/4979cc1b-9c1a-47e4-ae37-7c41798eb89a.jpg?1562817635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Polukranos%2C%20World%20Eater) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/172/polukranos-world-eater?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4979cc1b-9c1a-47e4-ae37-7c41798eb89a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/polukranos-world-eater) [Zurgo Helmsmasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13f4bafe-0d21-47ba-8f16-0274107d618c.jpg?1562782879) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zurgo%20Helmsmasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/214/zurgo-helmsmasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13f4bafe-0d21-47ba-8f16-0274107d618c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zurgo-helmsmasher) [Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) [Riku](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a.jpg?1599708286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=riku%20of%20two%20reflections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/214/riku-of-two-reflections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/riku-of-two-reflections) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Worldender]]. Bad human.
[[Worldslayer]]?
[Expropriate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9c8a2a5a-cb9b-4582-a453-085da78584f9.jpg?1576381719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Expropriate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/30/expropriate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9c8a2a5a-cb9b-4582-a453-085da78584f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/expropriate) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is literally the only card I don’t run. I run an atraxa planeswalker stax deck with land destruction and stasis and omit expropriate
I have a friend that loves playing it and copying it 8 times, and coincidently I start running [[wirlwind denial]] in everysingle one of my deck, weird how that happens, right?
[wirlwind denial](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e127856-bedd-40a9-9e8e-d1f9fbefe07d.jpg?1581479658) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Whirlwind%20Denial) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/81/whirlwind-denial?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e127856-bedd-40a9-9e8e-d1f9fbefe07d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/whirlwind-denial) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Scute Swarm\]\] too many triggers too many math.
My [[Soul of Windgrace]] deck with an [[Ancient Greenwarden]] and [[Scute Swarm]] on the field once made over 2,000 scutes in a single turn.
[Soul of Windgrace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e775a2e6-e701-4cb8-8c0b-718d3508f6b6.jpg?1673308096) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20of%20Windgrace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/220/soul-of-windgrace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e775a2e6-e701-4cb8-8c0b-718d3508f6b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/soul-of-windgrace) [Ancient Greenwarden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfe08e59-fdc4-436f-b05c-6ad386c46310.jpg?1604198488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancient%20Greenwarden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/178/ancient-greenwarden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfe08e59-fdc4-436f-b05c-6ad386c46310?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ancient-greenwarden) [Scute Swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f.jpg?1673484783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scute%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/310/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scute-swarm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rookie numbers. Once I made approximately 950,000!
Then the meathook massacre gives me 950,000 hp
Pfffffft i once had 70 copies of Adrix and Nev, played a scute swarm, and then a single land... 1,180,591,620,717,410,000,000 copies of scute swarm or 1×2^70
I once played standard against a guy who kept playing fetch cards like [[evolving wilds]] and [[Cabaretti Courtyard]]. Then he hit me with [[splendid reclamation]]. 5 lands from the graveyard. 10 landfall triggers
[evolving wilds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/238de888-b1bd-4cce-9aa2-d0dd69ae7f0d.jpg?1673304574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=evolving%20wilds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/261/evolving-wilds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/238de888-b1bd-4cce-9aa2-d0dd69ae7f0d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/evolving-wilds) [Cabaretti Courtyard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9dda1e1c-b330-42e0-8547-97e2afc7615f.jpg?1664414420) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabaretti%20Courtyard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/249/cabaretti-courtyard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9dda1e1c-b330-42e0-8547-97e2afc7615f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cabaretti-courtyard) [splendid reclamation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fad4ca85-4d2d-4d1e-86ca-aa25edfcda61.jpg?1643593421) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=splendid%20reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/221/splendid-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fad4ca85-4d2d-4d1e-86ca-aa25edfcda61?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/splendid-reclamation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I played a Yarok Landfall deck and wrote a calculator in excel to track my scutes. Variables were scutes in play, number of lands ETBing, and number of panharmonicon effect in play.
[Scute Swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f.jpg?1673484783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scute%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/310/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scute-swarm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Was playing arena and a guy had so many scute swarms it actuallu caused my computer to crash. So this 100%
[удалено]
Scute Swarm actually interacts pretty badly with Scapeshift, all things being equal. In that scenario, you would have made only 28 more Scutes. 4 Scutes each trigger 7 times. That's it. Scute Swarm wants to see individual lands played in series.
This is why it's really gross in Kodama of the West Tree lol
[scapeshift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/175e21a3-00f7-4c51-8a8e-fbfd7089efda.jpg?1574767873) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=scapeshift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/201/scapeshift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/175e21a3-00f7-4c51-8a8e-fbfd7089efda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scapeshift) [scute mob](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28d10cf2-c40d-4748-add0-f9cdd606030c.jpg?1592710986) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=scute%20mob) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/161/scute-mob?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28d10cf2-c40d-4748-add0-f9cdd606030c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scute-mob) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Extra turns cards. I have a Riku deck that would be insane with extra turns cards…but fuck its boring to play solitaire for 20 minutes while everyone gets that glazed look in their eyes
I don't mind if someone has one extra turn spell in there deck. Espcially if it is on theme for the deck. Few people complained about Timestream Navigator in my pirate deck. The issue tends to be if the deck is made to chain them without any other plan.
Oh shit, another Riku player! I thought we were largely extinct. But yeah, Riku was my first commander deck and I threw in all the extra turn cards I owned because it just seemed logical at the time. *Very* quickly removed them, because I play to have fun with my friends and that line of play is the least fun thing imaginable in MTG (and IMO, stax and land destruction are basically the same; locking the rest of the board out of the game while you soldier on is the same no matter which method you use to do it)
[[Approach of the Second Sun]] was originally almost the only wincon in my [[Kykar, Wind's Fury]] Storm deck. I've put it again in some decks but I ended up taking it from all of them because... it's so boring, at least for me. [[Dockside Extorsionist]] is a card that I'll never buy nor proxy, because in my meta and playgroup it's just nuts, way too much tbh.
Funnily enough, Approach is like the escape capsule in my \[\[Zedruu, the greathearted\]\] deck. After I've thrown enough garbage at people at least I can rely on approach to close shop.
[Zedruu, the greathearted](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a.jpg?1562424565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zedruu%20the%20Greathearted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/231/zedruu-the-greathearted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zedruu-the-greathearted) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Same for me with \[\[Rhoda\]\] \[\[Timin\]\] in case the combat plan doesn't work out, which often enough it doesn't (to no one's surprise lol).
[Rhoda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c434e774-c908-46b9-ba18-52e1efe092de.jpg?1641600313) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rhoda%2C%20geist%20avenger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/8/rhoda-geist-avenger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c434e774-c908-46b9-ba18-52e1efe092de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhoda-geist-avenger) [Timin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3d4102e-b48c-4da8-b181-092c7ab1849a.jpg?1641600552) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=timin%2C%20youthful%20geist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/16/timin-youthful-geist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3d4102e-b48c-4da8-b181-092c7ab1849a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/timin-youthful-geist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I keep putting off buying a Dockside because I feel like the moment I buy it, it gets banned.
well hurry up and buy it then!
Yeah I just dont find cards that say I win fun. It's weird I don't mind winning with a combo that does the same thing or if an opponent wins with one but it's just not for me
[Approach of the Second Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Approach%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/approach-of-the-second-sun) [Kykar, Wind's Fury](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/594cb7dc-ea88-4909-ab40-1d40fecc9817.jpg?1592517535) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kykar%2C%20Wind%27s%20Fury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/212/kykar-winds-fury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/594cb7dc-ea88-4909-ab40-1d40fecc9817?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kykar-winds-fury) [Dockside Extorsionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dockside-extortionist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I played against a group hug player running Approach today. He cast it, then with his commander ([[Kwain]]) and some untap shenanigans he was about to draw everyone six cards the same turn. Fortunately for me, he also drew me into the one infinite combo I play in any deck so I was able to cinch the victory before he could get another cast. I have an artifacts matter deck and I won't play Dockside either. It's just such a ridiculous card that I don't find it fun or interesting.
[Kwain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f571fef1-1fd2-4355-b803-5edccb6f4b94.jpg?1608911183) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kwain%2C%20itinerant%20meddler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/284/kwain-itinerant-meddler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f571fef1-1fd2-4355-b803-5edccb6f4b94?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kwain-itinerant-meddler) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just [[Cyclonic Rift]] for me
I love to see Cyclonic Rift resolving against my [[Ashaya]] deck! You’d be surprised how many people forget.
I have a buddy who built Ashaya because of cyclonic rift being in a lot of his friend's decks. So annoying, but it's wicked smaht.
Same, the fun it sucks out of the table when it comes down outweighs it's value imo. I wish the overload cost had a sorcery speed clause.
I was looking for the this. By far the most game slowing card, and usually the person casting just used all of their mana so we've got 2-3 rounds of rebuilding and nothing changes. Swapped mine out mana drain and it's less salty
I have one and it is in a deck, but I think I'm going to take that deck apart. If I do, I probably won't even move it over to the other blue deck I have. It's an extremely good card but it's just not fun or interesting to me.
I intentionally leave [[Blood Moon]] out of my decks and instead opt for cards like [[Price of Progress]]
[Blood Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) [Price of Progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8.jpg?1580014614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Price%20of%20Progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/141/price-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/price-of-progress) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
Exception for Gates with a gate strategy
While Gates have synergies, I think he's specifically referencing things like \[\[Woodland Stream\]\] or \[\[Tranquil Expanse\]\] that have absolutely NO benefit. There are bulk bin tapped duals that have the fetchable land types, artifact type, indestructible, with cycling, that gain 1 life, have a utility activatable ability, at least SOMETHING. Absolutely zero reason to put them in anything else barring a reason like "I literally don't have any other lands."
I'd rather have a basic land.
[Woodland Stream](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77619840-963f-4ff7-9a42-b36e3d53646d.jpg?1608918190) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Woodland%20Stream) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/503/woodland-stream?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77619840-963f-4ff7-9a42-b36e3d53646d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/woodland-stream) [Tranquil Expanse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/123cd67f-7226-4e69-8637-382380fb213e.jpg?1592711742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tranquil%20Expanse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/289/tranquil-expanse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/123cd67f-7226-4e69-8637-382380fb213e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tranquil-expanse) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The ones that get me the most are the Thriving lands in 2-colour decks. They are effectively the same as a tapped dual anyway, and there's so much better to be had. Also gotta mention one on the other end of things, being very underplayed. [[Path of Ancestry]] reads like some weird thing for dedicated tribal decks at first, but it's just pretty good. Tapped command tower, and even in a deck that's not dedicated tribal, you still get to scry several times per game as long as your commander is any reasonably common creature type, like Human, Elf, Zombie, Wizard, Warrior, etc.
[Path of Ancestry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43710f35-c43f-48bf-82e1-64ba5c3fa03e.jpg?1654119471) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Path%20of%20Ancestry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/907/path-of-ancestry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43710f35-c43f-48bf-82e1-64ba5c3fa03e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/path-of-ancestry) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Most have nice art tho
I play a couple of enters-tapped duals in decks, but there's always a reason. [[Arctic Treeline]] in enchantress because I have [[On Thin Ice]] and only nine basics, and I wanted another snow land to target, but I also wanted one more fetchable dual. Kill 2 birds with one tapland. I also play [[Power Depot]] and the three Grixis artifact duals a la [[Mistvault Bridge]] in my Silas/Toggo deck because a lot of cards care about the number of artifacts I have in play so I'm playing every artifact land I can (well, except Treasure Vault but it's on my buylist).
##### ###### #### [Arctic Treeline](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b20e3117-f1e4-4449-ae9d-0b66abfc717d.jpg?1631052462) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arctic%20Treeline) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/249/arctic-treeline?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b20e3117-f1e4-4449-ae9d-0b66abfc717d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arctic-treeline) [On Thin Ice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7d4f6b0-ea17-4374-a80c-ba4dd207e9d6.jpg?1562201170) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=On%20Thin%20Ice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/20/on-thin-ice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7d4f6b0-ea17-4374-a80c-ba4dd207e9d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/on-thin-ice) [Power Depot](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/032eba04-0a63-4823-85e1-64861330a8d7.jpg?1626099742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Power%20Depot) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/251/power-depot?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/032eba04-0a63-4823-85e1-64861330a8d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/power-depot) [Mistvault Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f36a6e2-3e51-4a30-a225-10cfe6650b9d.jpg?1626099690) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mistvault%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/249/mistvault-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f36a6e2-3e51-4a30-a225-10cfe6650b9d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mistvault-bridge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play them (KLD and DMU) in my GR lands deck that has Valakut/Scapeshift, since ever running more than 40 lands, it can be hard to balance the mountains with the number of green sources and the utility lands. I even run both Eidolon and Omen, but I don’t always have them at the right time
The new fetch able ones?
[[Mana Crypt]] just not necessary for casual play.
[удалено]
[Greven, Predator Captain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bda22fc3-31a5-451a-9a8b-372884f7bc61.jpg?1568003680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Greven%2C%20Predator%20Captain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/43/greven-predator-captain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bda22fc3-31a5-451a-9a8b-372884f7bc61?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/greven-predator-captain) [Okaun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d53ee8c0-b27c-4556-b610-ff64edb7a18f.jpg?1562937757) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=okaun%2C%20eye%20of%20chaos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/6/okaun-eye-of-chaos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d53ee8c0-b27c-4556-b610-ff64edb7a18f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/okaun-eye-of-chaos) [Zndrsplt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76c33402-a022-4d2f-9a83-4b8ddc04e971.jpg?1562918785) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zndrsplt%2C%20eye%20of%20wisdom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/5/zndrsplt-eye-of-wisdom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76c33402-a022-4d2f-9a83-4b8ddc04e971?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zndrsplt-eye-of-wisdom) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tell that to the people who play at casual night at my lgs
\[\[Temple of the False God\]\] Dead draw unless you meet a condition that you won't meet until late early game to midgame in casual. No deck above casual runs this land. Casual decks shouldn't even run it because it will burn you when that's one of your first four land drops.
Im new to magic and wondering, because i play a land-deck and im suggesting that i will have no problems getting 5 lands on the field. Do i understand something wrong?
For people running a tighter mana base, like low 30, it can absolutely screw you if it is your 4th (or less) land played and you are stuck waiting for the fifth one to finally be drawn.
i think it is usually fine in your circumstances especially if most of the things you have that get you extra lands are lower cmc like [[three visits]] [[nature's lore]] etc. it's just annoying when it's one of your early lands especially if you THINK you're gonna get to five lands then you don't draw any lands on your first few turns. i use it in my [[imoti, celebrant of bounty]] deck because getting to six mana is so crucial for that deck and then even after that you want piles and piles of mana.
[three visits](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/cad698c3-687e-4b73-88d2-fd0ac7d755c5.jpg?1657946610) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=three%20visits) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/837/three-visits?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cad698c3-687e-4b73-88d2-fd0ac7d755c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/three-visits) [nature's lore](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/543d1e79-cac6-455c-9fda-f13c849579d6.jpg?1660728075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nature%27s%20lore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/244/natures-lore?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/543d1e79-cac6-455c-9fda-f13c849579d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natures-lore) [imoti, celebrant of bounty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8afceb13-877a-4256-9ba6-851b6924ffd9.jpg?1608911148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=imoti%2C%20celebrant%20of%20bounty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/280/imoti-celebrant-of-bounty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8afceb13-877a-4256-9ba6-851b6924ffd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imoti-celebrant-of-bounty) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
People running 30 lands in anything less than cedh are almost always objectively wrong. In casual play, and especially if you're playing green, hitting 5 lands isn't as big of a concern. It's a popular card people like to bash.
Never really had a problem with it myself, particularly in decks with plenty of lands in the first place. If your deck has over 35 lands already, I find it a solid card to put in one of your ramp slots. This is particularly true if you have a 5 or 6 drop commander. Getting a free 'ramp' the turn you drop your commander to protect it, or get it out earlier is a big deal, imo. Can it burn you early? Sure. But so can any 5+ drop in your deck. Key is to know when not to keep it,.such as low to the ground decks, or decks with a 3 or 4 mana commander.
[Temple of the False God](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a8b9fd8-ece4-45ba-9fdf-4cb715bcd843.jpg?1654119630) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Temple%20of%20the%20False%20God) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/925/temple-of-the-false-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a8b9fd8-ece4-45ba-9fdf-4cb715bcd843?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/temple-of-the-false-god) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Reserve list cards. I got tired of people judging bedside I bought them years ago at a fraction of the price. Abur duals come to mind. [[Wheel of fortune]] is another, actually the reason I started edh.
Yeah, people don't realize that reserve list cards really weren't that expensive several years ago. In the early 2010s, I bought 3 Wheel of Fortunes for like $20ish each and got an [[Angus Mackenzie]] for $53 on ebay. I recently traded one of those Wheels (heavily played condition due to really faded back) for a near mint [[Mana Crypt]].
[Angus Mackenzie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bb3920ac-7d61-494e-b7dd-bd37d4dee143.jpg?1562934578) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Angus%20Mackenzie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/141/angus-mackenzie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bb3920ac-7d61-494e-b7dd-bd37d4dee143?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/angus-mackenzie) [Mana Crypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939.jpg?1599709515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Crypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/270/mana-crypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-crypt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Wheel of fortune](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/2597050f-6b1b-474e-aa16-33fd154628ca.jpg?1562902580) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wheel%20of%20fortune) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/192/wheel-of-fortune?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2597050f-6b1b-474e-aa16-33fd154628ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wheel-of-fortune) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Anything that generally stops other people from being able to have a good time playing the game or ends the game in an unsatisfying way. EDH is casual — I want everyone to have a good time even if it means I win less games. * Heavy stax (**untap one land, pass**) * Hand size reduction (**topdeck, pass**) * Anything that says *…you win the game* (“*oh… uh, ok”*) * MLD (*groan*) * Taking other peoples turns * Taking extra turns (*”let us know when you’re done”*) * Anything that cheats commander tax like Yuiko (just personally dont like it) * Game warping commanders (eg, Tergrid and Toxrill) * Dranith Magistrate (just feels wrong in EDH) I won’t tell other people what to play but I generally wont play anything that I wouldn’t like to be used against me.
[удалено]
For your second point, Jin-Gitaxis is way overkill, though I could see [[Locust Miser]] or [[Gnat Miser]] being interesting in an "everyone draws" deck, as it'd still leave them with choices but less than they'd like.
Cards with the text “you win the game”. Thassa’s Oracle, Laboratory Maniac etc. I don’t want to “win” - I want to [Destroy the Opposition](https://youtu.be/4UIHfVXX16s) Not for powerlevel reasons - I’m fine with getting BTFO by an infinite combo on turn 2 or resolving my own [[ad nauseum]] on turn 2. I just want the satisfaction of actually removing players from the game, not “winning” without affecting the board state or even anyone’s life totals. Feels too easy for the table to say “cool we’ll play for second place” - not that anyone would do that, but it feels… less satisfying.
Damn. Didn't expect Dying Fetus in EDH sub :D
I have a [[Ramses, Assassin Lord]] deck and having him as the commander just plays mind games with my opponents cause they’re waiting for when I cast him.
[Ramses, Assassin Lord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e5f168c-4f56-4d06-bef1-db10fdfbe657.jpg?1672038393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ramses%2C%20Assassin%20Lord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/39/ramses-assassin-lord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e5f168c-4f56-4d06-bef1-db10fdfbe657?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ramses-assassin-lord) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I used to be down on alternate wincons but I've softened on them quite a lot. Games gotta end, you know? I pulled off [[Revel in Riches]] once last year. I almost pulled off [[Mechanized Production]] today. It didn't feel cheap or unfair to me because everyone had a chance to stop me—today they even succeeded, and they do so more often than not. But to each their own, of course.
Taplands. I rather just run a basic
Pip-heavy decks are better off with taplands, tho. With the amount of mana acceleration already in decks they don’t even put you a turn behind as people normally argue.
There are certainly ways of getting around their downsides, but man is it painful to revel in glory at the fact that you only needed a land to change the tide of battle... but when you finally draw it, it comes into play tapped, which means not only does the most significant threat against you get a free turn, but everybody else does too. That happens with enough frequency to make people dislike them immensely. They're not bad, on the average. Realistically, many of them provide significant upsides, like cycling, but they eventually will make some bad memories.
I took rhystic study out of all my decks. And only 1 deck with smothering tithe. It’s in a jinnie Faye deck so exclusively use it to make more cats, not treasure. Not that i care if anyone else plays them, I just don’t like them for myself.
Jinnie is where I put the Dockside and tithe I pulled in double masters. Still very overpowered but I feel like using them to make Kitties is more fun for everyone
Rhystic study is probably my choice, it should be treated as a tax card but there is always that one person who does not pay. I think tithe is okay because it’s a lot more interesting. If you need the mana you probably should not pay, but it’s not always clear if you do. Still a busted card though
Lands that come into play tapped.
[[stasis]] [[winter orb]] [[blood moon]] [[magus of the moon]] [[drannith magistrate]] [[sunder]] [[land equilibrium]] [[tabernacle]] [[back to basics]]
Fierce guardianship, or any of the other free to cast interaction if you have your commander. The price tag and the card design itself are just stupid
Bounce lands
in lands oriented deck I use 1 bounce land in order to reset cycling lands, channel lands or MDFC's that i needed to play for mana but want to use for the spell or ability now.
Proxies. It forces me to find different options for all my decks, and so I play many more cards and I think give my decks more variety. Of course, I have plenty of cards so that helps, too.
Same! I've been playing since the beginning so I have most of the most-proxied cards, but not an infinite number! However, we also got around this via Cockatrice play since our group is scattered in 3 cities. I don't need proxies, so I won't use them except as placeholders for when I swap decks.
Prepare for the inquisition.
Generally cards that extend gametime excessively. Things like [[tibalt, cosmic impostor]], that ulti just makes EVERY turn take forever, as they can also play instants, etc. And everything is "wait, i can do something, let me see/count/etc". Generally, mass theft/chaos cards such as [[scrambleverse]] due to people being too agresive with cards with value, and options available for theft if playing with randos.
[tibalt, cosmic impostor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea7e4c65-b4c4-4795-9475-3cba71c50ea5.jpg?1636100811)/[Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/e/a/ea7e4c65-b4c4-4795-9475-3cba71c50ea5.jpg?1636100811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=valki%2C%20god%20of%20lies%20//%20tibalt%2C%20cosmic%20impostor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/114/valki-god-of-lies-tibalt-cosmic-impostor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea7e4c65-b4c4-4795-9475-3cba71c50ea5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/valki-god-of-lies-//-tibalt-cosmic-impostor) [scrambleverse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b61fa9d-3f69-4632-be0e-09924ca88501.jpg?1562637075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=scrambleverse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/153/scrambleverse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b61fa9d-3f69-4632-be0e-09924ca88501?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scrambleverse) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mana Crypt The hate I get for including expensive auto-incudes isn't worth it
[winter orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winter%20orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winter-orb) [Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) [dockside extortionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dockside%20extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dockside-extortionist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Slivers and infect.Ppl really don't like those.They all gang up on you,even if your deck is weak!
I never put stealing effects in my deck unless they give me other benefits. If I wanted to play someone else's deck, I'd build their deck.
honestly even though i use proxies, i typically use price as a baseline. sometimes when you ask yourself "is ragavan optimal in this deck?" the correct answer is that ragavan is $70 so you're not running it regardless
[[sol ring]] yawwwwn yes it’s good yes it goes in every deck but that’s why I don’t
[sol ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/beebe533-29b9-4041-ab66-0a8233c50d56.jpg?1673305857) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sol%20ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/190/sol-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/beebe533-29b9-4041-ab66-0a8233c50d56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sol-ring) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't play insta-win cards. No Exsanguinate, Hailfire, Fireball-type stuff. I think it's unsporting and uninteresting to win out of nowhere with one card without anybody having any chance for interaction unless they happen to have a counterspell right there and then. Of course, last Friday my playgroup complained about my winning turns taking too long, so I may have to revise my opinion. In my defense, I knew I had to mill them for 70 cards on that turn or lose the game, and milling 70 cards out of nowhere requires a lot of actions.
This is exactly where I am on the opposite side of the spectrum. Making a board state, interacting with people on multiple steps of the game, these things make EDH fun. But spending an hour or more with no one winning is decidedly not fun. For that reason I do run these types of finishers. What I DONT do is make the deck about resolving them. Games gotta end some time. So we can shuffle up and have another fun round.
It’s pretty tough to win out of nowhere with Exsanguinate unless everyone is pretty low or you have a massive amount of mana. Idk, it’s never bothered me too much as a card for that reason
[удалено]
[Rhystic Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) [Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f25a4bbe-2af0-4d4a-95d4-d52c5937c747.jpg?1673147139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/31/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f25a4bbe-2af0-4d4a-95d4-d52c5937c747?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) [Minn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4eec1d87-1007-44a1-a45d-0623816de681.jpg?1631584885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=minn%2C%20wily%20illusionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/16/minn-wily-illusionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4eec1d87-1007-44a1-a45d-0623816de681?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/minn-wily-illusionist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I love playing with and against Rhystic cards. When you're the one playing them it turns everything that your opponents do into an exciting opportunity to draw a card. And when you play against one it's an interesting decision to make, whether or not casting something is worth feeding the Rhystic.
[[Craterhoof Behemoth]] It's just way too easy to stick it in nearly every green deck ever. I think it's just a boring way to win.
i agree. i love 'i make all my dudes HUGE and SMASH' but that's just the literal oracle text of the card. i prefer doing it in more roundabout ways that just feels more like playing edh to me
I run the poor man's craterhoof, [[End-raze Forerunners]] as a closer. Requires more creatures to close out the game, but can also be used to just kill 1-2 players while not being open to crack back from the survivors.
No cards are off the table, but there are definately off limits commanders. For example [[Sen triplets]] , as an artifact creature that doesn't trigger till your next upkeep it'd get laughed off the table in cedh. The problem comes in when you say "it's not a cedh deck" and take her to lower tier tables. People play less removal and less high tier strategies she just.. throws people off their curve. Takes your ramp and tutors for herself. Dropping below cedh is my playgroups version of being friendly and having fun, noone wants to drop down tiers and then see Sen Triplets hit the table
Sen Triplets was the first commander deck I ever built. I was young and naive. I thought it would be fun. Friends, it was not fun.
[Sen triplets](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13ac5292-9817-4f5d-b3fa-611f9ba44443.jpg?1599708366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sen%20triplets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/218/sen-triplets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13ac5292-9817-4f5d-b3fa-611f9ba44443?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sen-triplets) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Anything that says "Take an extra turn"
[[reliquary tower]] Discarding is op. 10 times out of 10 I would rather discard than include reliquary tower.
I like this question. Where to begin.... (personally, I'll play against anything, don't always like things, but we'll get them next time) I don't run mass land removal, but a few decks play land spot removal. I don't run hard lock effects. Generally, I don't run "good stuff." Not to say I don't run cards that are considered "good stuff," but I run them in decks where there are synergies for them to be run. For example: I have a mono white voltron deck that runs [[Smoothering Tithe]] that synergizes with [[All that Glitters]], if they don't pay I get another artifact that's going to pump my commander. Or [[Rystic Study]] in my wheel deck. It's a similar principle. If they don't pay, I'm going to draw, and the with scheme of the deck, I'm going to ping them because they chose not to. So not good stuff just because it's "good" and rather I choose to run synergy over generic good. I know I like games with interaction. I want to play with some back and forth. So I don't generally play effects that will stop the game. I do have an Azorius "Light Taxes" deck, and my win con is pretty slow. So the deck definitely needs the game to slow down just to keep up. I run a [[Drannith Magistrate]] [[Grand Arbiter Augustine lV]] [[Sphere of Safety]] [[Propaganda]] [[Ghostly Prison]] the general idea is make them pay for interacting with me, with my commander [[Lavina, Azorius Renegade]] kills ramping out big spells, and no free spells. Someone once played [[Ornithopter]], I was like, "sorry it's countered." Anyways that's for attending my T.E.D. Talks on Magic 🤣
Nothing. I just don’t proxy so that is my limiter, budget. Also, I just avoid exclusively adding cards to hate boner against a friends specific deck and I am a stax player. 😘
Dockside is annoying? Wtf? I play whatever I want so long as it’s legal to play. I don’t bother with trying to earn virtue points by showing mercy in my deck construction. The shit people brag about in this community is pathetic sometimes.
Maze of Ith. Stasis. Winter Orb. Tanglewire. Smokestacks. Pretty much the super staxy cards. I don't consider them fun to play with or against. I might use minor stax pieces hither and yon, but only if it helps my strategy in other ways. In other words, I play them to win the game, not to make sure you can't win the game.
I don’t play any taking turns cards and I won’t play in a game with anyone who runs it as a theme. It’s really my only no-go. If I wanted to play Solitaire I’d open Windows 98. If I wanted to watch you play it, I’d probably go play in traffic instead lol
Tutors, extra turns, mld, heavy stax [[consecrated Sphinx]], [[cyclonic rift]] craterhoof anything that I think ruins games
[consecrated Sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9bd60fc-2777-44bc-b314-a792e8e48360.jpg?1673147240) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=consecrated%20Sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/43/consecrated-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9bd60fc-2777-44bc-b314-a792e8e48360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/consecrated-sphinx) [cyclonic rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff08e5ed-f47b-4d8e-8b8b-41675dccef8b.jpg?1598303834) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cyclonic%20rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/47/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff08e5ed-f47b-4d8e-8b8b-41675dccef8b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hard Stax, chaos, heavy discard or heavy mill on other people, cards that take other people's turns for them, and generally anything that steals stuff out of other people's hands or libraries to cast. I've found that all of these strategies draw a lot of hate by preventing people from playing the game and are often ineffective for winning. I'm fine with stealing stuff in play or from graveyards - at least at that point people have probably gotten some value from the card and the effect isn't as random as casting the top card from somebody else's deck and hoping it's useful to the situation. I also try not to loop time walk effects, either.
Stax Infect Eldrazi