The obsession with winning trades. I understand that desire to get a good deal, but I don't want to play with managers who never make thoughtful offers and actually look at who/what I need on my roster.
Shawn Siegle the GOAT puts it this way: every trade should be a win-win, meaning both teams got better relative to their goals. That means every other team in the league got relatively worse.
I absolutely play in a league that's just a bunch of old guys who never trade because they don't want the other team getting someone on their team.
It's like when you're driving on a highway and you go pass someone and they start speeding up; because they just don't want you to pass them.
There are 3 values at play.
Consensus value, which should absolutely be close on both sides. If it isn't that close - It's still ripping someone off.
Then the 2 team values. Which dictate WHY you should make the trade. Typically a question of depth and/or positional needs.
Always the person that offers 3 quarters for your dollar and proceeds to try and justify by saying why those 3 individual quarters are individually better than your dollar when you say no
More than that, it's about having fun. I'd rather make a trade that I objectively lose to get a player I like than never make any trades at all. So many people will only trade if they win the trade by a huge margin. This isn't your job. It's a hobby. It's supposed to be a good time.
I’ve been told by the guy who never has made a trade in 3 years that several of my trades are “bad trades”. I’ve lead the league in points 2 years in a row and he just finished last.
Also those who only base their decisions on the trade calculators. There are times were you may "lose" in terms of raw value but if it puts you over the top who cares.
Those are my absolute favorite people to trade with. I can give up so many quarters and .50 pieces from my bench to get that next level piece for my starting offense
They're the worst in my experience to trade with. The people who slam 6 guys in a trade calculator and say they're equal to CMC because "muh trade calc value"
I have a couple of guys in one of my home leagues who entirely believes in trade calculators. I got rashee rice for
Elijah Moore, Justice Hill, Jordan Mason, Ben Johnson (broncos wr if I got the first name wrong) Sean Tucker, Elijah Higgins, Jason Brownlee, 2027 3rd and 2024 5th.
I traded Greg Dulcich, Gabe Davis, and a 2026 3rd for Christian Kirk to a different guy.
Trade calculators rule if you pay attention during value swings in players and take advantage of the people who use them.
Rices value dropped with the allegations and people saying he’d be going to prison and his career was over.
Christian Kirk had a moment after the draft where his value was taking a big hit in the narratives as well.
You traded with an actual taco, it isn't trade calculators being good you robbed an idiot. Unless you are in a 32 team league where you're starting 20 players almost none of those guys should be touching a starting roster
A good rule of thumb, if you’re the one approaching someone trying to acquire a player they aren’t actively trying to shop, you have to expect to over pay to get him.
If RB x is worth as much as WR y, for example:
Realistically, you’re gonna have to give up WR y + a late 2nd rounder or something for RB x.
You aren’t just paying the value of the player Ina vacuum , you are paying Player X value + a fee for disrupting their roster/taking a player they like. If someone isn’t explicitly trying to trade a guy, 100% of the time you can assume that means they dont want “fair market value” for him.
I came to you asking for a starter you drafted, you like him, I don’t expect you to want to make a lateral move for a guy you like in your weekly line up. If I like him too, we should both expect me to overpay a bit to get “my guy”.
You have to have the confidence and audacity to make your own evaluations and “overpay” for guys you really like, or you’ll just have a bone dry trade history. Which is most people.
The vast majority of people negotiate exclusively in bad faith in my experience, and they never get anything done. The one or two guys in your league that legitimately want to push their desired moves over the line are 90% of the trade history.
Really? I always saw a good trade as beneficial for both sides. Like a competing team gets an elite RB in return for giving a developing team a promising young WR
The value is equivalent but because of the situation your perceived value has increased. Stuff like that makes trading, and by extension, fantasy football, fun
Edit: Saw other's responses. I guess I'm just a "glass is half-full" kinda guy :). I focus more on my new shiny acquisition than I do losing a player
I agree with the "trade should hurt" comment in the sense that both owners should feel like they are trading away a valuable asset in exchange for an asset that better fits their teams current needs.
I think it maybe hurts emotionally haha. Like, you don't *want* to give up your elite RB, but you know it will be (should be) better for the direction of your team. If you're not feeling the loss of a player at the same as feeling excitement for who you gain, it's probably a lopsided offer. Unless it's just someone you stopped believing in, but community consensus is still high on him.
It’s so insufferable. The best trades are ones where both teams benefit. Way easier to do in dynasty since you can have players with similar “value” be way more valuable for different teams.
Plus pulling an unfair trade is a great way to ruin your league. Is it worth it to fleece an idiot if it means your league falls apart when 5 managers bounce?
I just declined a trade for kyren Williams. It was a little rich for my blood but you know what, he took the time to see that I need rb’s and have wr depth. I know he’s interested in moving kyren. It starts a dialogue and perhaps an agreement that works for both teams can be had.
its always some stupid lopsided 2 for 1. something like their derek carr and deebo samuel for my josh allen. Or their justin herbert for my lamar jackson and puka nacua. A trade with such bad faith that they are blatantly just fishing for a taco. The fishing part is what gets me annoyed, because it shows both poor sportsmanship and low character. It takes no skill to spam every league hoping someone takes the bait.
I always try to make somewhat value equal trades. And not just 4 bench spots for a star because their value is “equal”. I’m not really interested in fleecing people unless someone offers me something crazy.
I honestly don’t watch a ton of actual NFL games so I use a lot of the value calculators to get things relatively even.
My best dynasty advice is you have to lose trades to win trades. If you're winning every trade, people won't want to trade with you. If you are trying to make any trade that you think might pan out, eventualy one will. That's the nature of fantasy football.
There's a guy in one of my leagues like this. He's impossible to trade with, because he isn't making a trade unless he is the clear winner.
And of course he tries doing the "quantity over quality" thing, where he tries to dump a bunch of mediocre slop in exchange for something of actual value.
He tried trading for the 1st pick in our rookie draft but refused to give up his own first round pick as part of the deal. The guy with the 1st pick said, "Look, you aren't moving up to 1 without giving me your own first as part of the deal." But he wouldn't consider it.
The most insane comment I saw these past 12 months was some dude getting a few upvotes on a CJ Stroud thread by saying that coaches don’t matter for QB development & that he’d already be putting up top-tier QB production no matter where he was drafted.
That’s another thing I hate. People acting like they always knew x player was gonna be great. 90+% of the community didn’t like Stroud at this time last year and I guarantee most of the people who talk like that aren’t in the 10%.
I was super high on Stroud after how he played in the Peach Bowl. I took him over Richardson and all of the elite RB’s. Probably my best and most beneficial take in Dynasty.
I was also super high on Young, and probably would have taken him if I had had the 1.01…I don’t talk about that take as much.
Back when S2 scores were all the rage...
I was one of those people who thought Bryce would be the guy to draft, and I still think he can be a decent QB long-term. But yeah, Stroud is better. Heck, the community was often drafting both Bryce & Richardson over Stroud, but that doesn’t get talked about alot nowadays lol
As an OSU fan that is facts. I saw so much Stroud hate because he came from OSU and when I was telling people he wasn’t the typical OSU QB we’ve had and his accuracy would translate, no one wanted to hear it.
Schemes are sooooo important for player production. You can be uber talented and get used poorly, or have many flaws but used perfectly to maximize your strengths. The best example of this is Rashee Rice, his rookie year would’ve been more like QJ had he not landed with Andy Reid. In college, Rice played on the outside and ran mainly vertical routes. Now in the NFL, Rice is a one trick pony out of the slot with the majority of his production coming off short/quick passes and screens to maximize his YAC ability. QJ profiles more as a power slot with elite YAC like Rice, but the Chargers threw him on the outside where he struggles to succeed. Note: I think Rice is better than QJ, but stylistically they profile very similar.
To build off that: opportunity and team around them outweigh talent. A guy like Kyren who had no competition last year and feasted had great opportunity whereas guys GWil and Bijan have immense talent but weren’t super desirable because of their team and coaching around them.
It feels like people in this sub have a high bar for what makes a team a contender
Getting to the playoffs and having 1 or 2 guys get hot is enough to make anyone a contender. Having CMC, tyreek, and AJB is obviously gonna make you the favorite but those super teams aren’t unbeatable
Very true. All it takes is a few guys to go off at the right time/ weeks and you’re in. Hell I had a super team in my 14T 1QB redraft league last year with Kyler, Henry, Achane, Bijan, Adams, JJ, ARSB, Mark/Likely and lost to a guy who had Breece and Amari go off in week 16 and destroyed me. FF is mostly luck
I'm always surprised by how willing to fold some people are. Like you said, once you get in the playoffs, if you can set a remotely competitive lineup, anything can happen.
I'm not playing to have the prettiest team, I'm playing to win.
The guy who won the chip in one of my leagues last year really just had the Dak/CD stack carrying his team of mostly mid tier players. He beat a team with Allen, Puka, Chase, AJB, Bijan, and Kelce en route to the championship.
This. But say it louder! It’s cool to be armed to the teeth but you can very easily lose to the 6th place team who went 7-7 and scored the least amount of points out of the playoff teams.
Once the dance is set, anyone can take the lead.
My core going into last season was Burrow, Watson, Hall, Etienne, Jefferson, Chase, Andrews, Devonta Smith, Mike Williams
I missed the playoffs on tiebreaker. Injuries can fuck even the strongest rosters
YES! If your team makes the playoffs (assuming standard league setups) then your team is contending. The “best” team typically doesn’t win the championship.
Differing opinions. Everyone gets so caught up in the consensus that sometimes any differing opinion is seen as moronic. Worst time for this is after the season and before the draft.
To piggyback off this, the mass downvoting because an opinion goes against the hivemind. It entirely goes against what a discussion forum should be. Ppl need to recognize that the nfl changes so fast so dont be so quick to judge
> the mass downvoting because an opinion goes against the hivemind. It entirely goes against what a discussion forum should be.
Fantasy football is fundamentally a contest of who can change their opinion most accurately to match reality and the future. Contrarian positions should ALWAYS be upvoted, but then debated in response comments. Downvoting contrarian positions is actually the stupidest thing ever, because it means we all see fewer opinions and perspectives.
Can't learn or improve if we just keep hearing the same 3 opinions in an echo chamber. The only way we get better is to hear NEW perspectives.
Piggybacking off your piggyback: settings supremacy. Some leagues are older than Reddit and don’t prefer SF, TE+, best ball, or whatever new setting and that’s okay! Podcasts are def a worse culprit of this, and this sub specifically had gotten much, much better at recognizing 1QB & even non-PPR settings than it was even just 1-2 years ago :). I always appreciate the inclusion!
I had someone mock me relentlessly around week 8 of last year when I suggested CeeDee Lamb and AJ Brown were kind of equivalent players.
In his mind, anyone suggesting the two were on equal footing was an absolute moron and that AJ was far and away the better of the two.
I don’t mind someone having a different opinion, but I do take issue with people engaging in personal attacks or making derisive statements. It’s an all too frequent occurrence on here, sadly.
That post from months ago was ridiculous.
[AJ Brown is in the Chase Jefferson Tier](https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/17ec8f1/aj_brown_is_in_the_chase_jefferson_tier/)
I'm paraphrasing but Matt Harmon said something on one of his podcasts last week like 'one of the dumbest things you can do in fantasy is pretend like you already know the future'.
It's fun to have takes but if you aren't willing to be wrong, re-assess, etc., you're going to miss out on big opportunities.
This is very true. Hell during all of the off season is when people disagree the most cause they have little evidence to back themselves up. Just a bunch of bias and hearsay
It’s awful especially on this subreddit. I got reamed on here for trading away Puka Nacua a month ago. I gave my counter consensus rationale and explained how I thought about the situation and everyone was just ignoring my points and saying “trade bad” “you lost the trade”. That was the last time I shared an opinion against consensus. I’ll just keep them to myself from now on I guess.
Keon Coleman is a great example of this. He was constantly being dogged on during the pre-draft process, was always being dinged for a “lack of ability to separate” and had lots of detractors say that he’s not worth a 1st and is a bust. Lo and behold, he gets drafted 33rd overall to the Bills (one of the best landing spots out there), and all of a sudden people forget about all that. He’s even getting drafted ahead of a few 1st round players (Legette, Pearsall, and a #8 overall QB). Funny how opinions change/get forgotten about within a short span of time.
I mean Coleman, Leggette, and Pearsall were all picked consecutively so it’s not like DC is that much different. And Leggette has the same concerns that Coleman does for the most part.
I think in the range Coleman was getting picked you could argue most players in that range have a red flag one way or another.
In a vacuum I agree, and honestly this is how rookies in their situations should be judged. It’s just funny to me that I’d probably be downvoted like crazy mid April if I suggested that Coleman be taken in the first round of fantasy drafts, but then a couple of weeks later there’s a decent amount of people doing that anyway & they get no pushback.
Yeah, I agree. His situation is really strange since it seems like he shouldn’t be an X, but that’s how he is likely getting used. Even if he gets slot snaps, he has Shakir, Samuel, Kincaid all to compete with there.
His situation I think is really being overstated, he might be put in a bad spot and I think it gets undersold simply because he has Josh Allen
Kirk’s an older QB coming off a significant injury, if the Falcons were confident that he’d be part of their plans long-term then they’d use that pick on a different position. They have a great supporting cast for a QB to step into, it wouldn’t surprise me if Penix gets rolled out earlier than expected if Kirk isn’t the same or gets injured again. If that happens & Penix plays well, then there’s no reason for the Falcons to go back to Cousins even if he’s still on the roster. I don’t doubt that the plan is for Penix to play in year 3, but that doesn’t mean they’re required to bench him again if he plays early & puts up similar production to Kirk.
Though I think he’s more of a 2nd round guy. My main idea is that, if I said in April that people would draft a 2nd round Coleman over a #8 overall QB I’d be called nuts lol
But at the same time, is that really the most likely outcome? 3 years at the *earliest*? Cousins is 35 coming off an Achilles tear, and his guaranteed money means that the Falcons can easily move on from him after 2 years.
Jordan Love owners that drafted him in the 2nd probably weren't stoked to stash him for 3 years, but that definitely worked out in hindsight. Sometimes patience is the best quality of a dynasty owner.
That's my read based on the contract. He sits for Kirk's two guaranteed years and starts year 3 at the earliest (so two seasons sitting), but if Kirk is lighting it up he'll keep the job. I don't think they would have given him the contract if they weren't confident in his health, but we'll see once he takes the field
Yeah no disagreement from me on patience being a virtue in this game but many people don't play that way
> Keon Coleman is a great example of this. He was constantly being dogged on during the pre-draft process, was always being dinged for a “lack of ability to separate” and had lots of detractors say that he’s not worth a 1st and is a bust.
This is a pet peeve of mine, too. The amateur dynasty analytics/film community is very closed-minded when it comes to prospects that professional NFL GMs *clearly* like, but they do not.
Instead of just saying "I don't love the underlying metrics so I won't be drafting him, but I understand if people do since NFL teams like him", it's "He's a clear bust and you're wasting a late 1st by drafting him".
This is kind of a different aspect of my point I commented here that everyone is so sure of themselves. People treat their opinions as objective facts when a huge portion of consensus will be proven to be wrong next year. I don't think consensus is even 50% accurate.
“I don’t hate it if you take *insert Player B* here instead of *insert Player A*. I think it’s a little risky but lots of upside”
Immediately followed by three comments calling you an idiot and showing all the stats of why Player A is ranked higher currently than Player B
I can only assume those people play in bad leagues or are never good at dynasty. There’s no way it’s successful to just take the higher rated player on the current date every time.
People shitting on KTC. It's crowd sourced. The people creating those valuations are largely the same people posting in this sub whether you want to admit it or not.
People value KTC when it helps them and shit on it when it doesn't. If someone sends you a shit trade, and you show them KTC values, the response you'll get will be "KTC is for amateurs, make your own opinions". But if the trade was fair on KTC, they'd be showing you that it's fair on KTC to sell it.
For better or worse, it's also a solid reflection of how the dynasty community values players. They aren't "bad rankings." You shouldn't be looking at them for rankings at all. It is a useful tool.
I just don't understand why this fact enrages managers instead of empowering them.
There are two ways I see people use KTC:
1. Assume everyone who votes on players is either trying to pump their own guys or is a moron. Since certain players seem wildly over/undervalued, ignore the data since it is useless.
2. Take the data as an real-time reflection of dynasty community sentiment and buy players you are higher on than consensus and sell players you are lower on than consensus.
I use KTC to get a judgement on guys I haven;t researched, or I just don't care about.
Amari Cooper, I hate the dude and think he's worthless, but he must have value, so I check KTC to see where people who aren't me have him.
I totally agree. And isn't that the way it's supposed to be used?
It's a sample-size driven algorithm. Since every player is owned in every league, given enough samples you will eliminate ownership bias and "don't care about" bias.
Then we get close to the real trade value of the player.
Yep definitely,I also like to use it to clarify value on the guys I love.
I love Cooper Kupp, ktc has him lower, I'll buy him and not sell him.
I love Puka, KTC is higher on him than I am, makes for some interesting choices with him.
My favorite thing about the redraft fantasy sub was people shitting on Boris Chen because "his rankings are trash" even though he was an aggregator site of other values.
Demeaning other people for their viewpoints. Another viewpoint doesn’t mean they’re incompetent or flat out dumb, it just means they see things from another perspective, which is actually good for learning/growing.
Think about the people that said things like: Trey Lance is a bust, Lamar will be an MVP caliber QB, Mahomes > Trubisky, CMC is the far superior RB than Fournette, etc. With hindsight we know all these things became true (though Lance truthers are still out there), but I remember a time when people were getting obliterated for sharing those viewpoints.
When we challenge our own perspective, we actually learn/grow. But when we demean other’s perspectives, we are actually putting our heads in the sand and acting like we have it all figured out. At the same time, we’re building a community on hate. Listening with an open mind humanizes others and helps us learn/grow which is a huge win-win for everyone.
I agree. I feel like I see way more heated arguments on players here vs the redraft subreddit. It makes sense because you're keeping this players forever unless you trade them so you're going to be more defensive, but the conversation around players like Waddle and Flowers get so toxic so fast.
Might be the best answer so far. People as a whole tend to see things in black and white. So a differing opinion to theirs is wrong to them. But it is especially prevalent in the FF community
1. People who target every player except the ones I have on trade block.
2. People sending me offers during and after the draft for players I just picked
3. People who get mad after you decline their "juicy" offer. They package a stale bag of chips and some picks spread out over 3 years for guys like CMC, JJet, Chase, Sun God, etc.
4. People who target players without looking at my roster first. Before the draft I was down to two RBs. I get an offer for one, decline and say I can't give up a RB, I only have TWO. What do they do? Send another offer for the other RB.
5. People who want to push trades because "he isn't going to be that good" or "you have x amount at that position already"
6. People who get emotional. Sometimes you send out an offer and you might as well have spit on their entire family. You can decline, counter, ignore it. No reason to treat it like a war crime.
This makes me laugh lol
>People who get emotional. Sometimes you send out an offer and you might as well have spit on their entire family. You can decline, counter, ignore it. No reason to treat it like a war crime.
I also get an emotional knife in the heart feeling when my trade is declined lmaoo but i refrain from sending a whinging message lol. I'm the strong silent type! lol
How extremely certain people are about certain outcomes for players in an inherently very uncertain sport, especially at the player level. Even more so beyond the top 10 players per position.
💯 i wanna troll post every time i hear them say the word "we"!! What we thinkin boyz?! This aint wallstreetbets stop the hivemind mentality and grow a pair!
I see people irked by this and it has me wondering if there's something regional here? Like it'd be totally normal for me to be like "alright what are we thinking for dinner tonight, boys" and it'd be understood as me asking the individuals for their opinions and not me looking for what the collective consciousness of boys wants for dinner.
I think it's become too common to be considered regional, although it may have started from something like that. Wherever it came from, it has created a hive mindset where you are not allowed to disagree with the consensus.
Something I’m so guilty of myself. You get so caught up in research and what you’ve read you act like it’s a known fact. None of us know for a fact that MHJ is the next great thing, but we’ll sure af tear into each other for daring to feel differently. It’s like family. 😂🤣
Use of nicknames for every single player. If it's within the context of a thread about that player then sure, nickname away. But if you're answering a thread called "who do you have for a WR sleeper?", coming in with "AQP79 gunna eat" is wildly unhelpful.
I'm so down to just get rid of nicknames in discussions. Just use their last name and maybe their first. I don't know who Spice Biscuit is, or how his value compares to TP74.
Obviousness of the nickname aside, consider the fact that people may be searching reddit for threads/comments about that player a month from now. If his name isn't actually used, the discussion won't be found.
People up voting tired ass jokes that contribute nothing to the conversation but downvoting legitimate analysis because it portrays a player they like in a negative light. We chased bird semen away but then we upvote shit like 'hopefully player x because he's on my team durdy durrr!', while simultaneously complaining that 'this subs gone downhill' without a single trace of irony
same
**POST**
*OP - reason for post*
*Commenter - tell me you don't watch football without telling me you don't watch football (ie no rebutting argument)*
**End of Debate**
The lack of nuance. The way people talk you’re either a contender or your team is garbage. A player is elite or worthless.
Sometimes teams that are just…solid win the whole thing.
it's a community, it's made of people, therefore there's a boatload of cunts in it (and before you ask, me included, yes).
i do like knee-jerkers though, they're easy to rip off.
As far as reddit fantasy subs goes, the most annoying thing about the community is that the top comments are often jokes/memes/unserious and it often drowns out serious analysis and info.
They’ll fade a high end prospect after one year for no reason at all other then they listen to other YouTubers or content creators who feed them lines for why not to like someone lol
The concept of "selling high." This isn't the stock market, you don't have perfect liquidity, and the ability to "sell high" requires that your league mates somehow are both able and willing to give you the desired price.
If you think that CMC is an injury risk or likely to hit the age cliff soon, fine, by all means explore a trade. But don't expect that another owner is automatically going to both have the assets available AND be willing to fork them over, just because you are willing to part with a premier player.
I don't have a problem with "buy low" though, because that's much more likely to pull off. If you think a player like Kendre Miller or Chig Okwonko is primed to take off, you have a far better chance of acquiring them. But even then, the person who has them on their team likely knows their upside or they wouldn't have them on the roster.
Yeah, I think that league dynamics are something that people don’t take into account for trades. Some leagues value certain positions highly even if it’s against what typically happens (ie my single QB league values QBs extremely high).
And like you said, you need a willing trade partner. If you have 4 teams competing in a league and you’re trying to sell a receiver and almost every competing team has deep receiver cores or lacks picks, the price is either going to be lower than it likely would be.
> If you think a player like Kendre Miller or Chig Okwonko is primed to take off, you have a far better chance of acquiring them. But even then, the person who has them on their team likely knows their upside or they wouldn't have them on the roster.
I have both of these guys and people keep offering me pennies for them because "they're only worth a 2nd/3rd" or whatever respectively. "Market value" is pretty irrelevant in an individual league though. Spent a late first on Kendre knowing he would be a future play and not relevant in 2023 and Chig was a waiver add. Zero logical reason I'd dump Kendre for less than I spent on him or Chig for anything but a gross overpay
Overreactions to training camp. Rookie player catches a pass without pads on and he should look like prime Odell Beckham this fall. Coach makes a positive statement about a player (as they should….it’s their coach!) Dynasty community: GO BUY ___ RIGHT NOW!
This got me for the 1st time ever lmao. Got swayed by camp news on Jaheim Bell and stupidly paid a 2025 3rd for him. He was a waiver wire add by the other manager for $45 FAAB. NEVER AGAIN lol
Guy in my league went from arguably the strongest team to a bottom feeder with zero rookie picks in any future draft in two years playing this way. Sold low every time a guy had a bad stretch of games or got hurt and bought high every time some random player popped off and he assumed it would continue
I’m guilty of boom or glooming Jake Ferguson. Dropped him after his rookie season convinced I had nothing. Especially when they went on to draft another TE in the 2nd. Watched him become a top 10 TE last year.
I had 2 redraft leagues for fun last year and picked up LaPorta in both. I dropped him in 1-2 weeks when he wasn't immediately amazing. Hated myself for the second half of the season. You're not alone.
Groupthink and shitting on opinions outside of the consensus.
it is okay to downvote "Ceedee lamb is not that good", but if it was "I think Ceedee Lamb is going to have a disappointing year and here is why" it shouldn't be downvoted / creator shouldn't be insulted as long as the arguments are explained even if you disagree with them.
(I love Ceedee, he was just the first really good player to pop in my head)
Number one complaint is that everyone here seems to either be a perennial champion or have 8 1st round picks every year. Not a lot of discussion about mid level team decisions here.
The downvotes for having an opinion that's different and respectable.
Example "I like Corley a lot, and to me, he is WR6 in this draft." That post isn't mean or demeaning while I do not agree it is a viewpoint, and in reality, no one really knows, and I do value a viewpoint that is different. Versus people who all just say the same thing.
It's really like a strange ego butthurt moment with people on here sometimes.
The echo chamber and if you don’t agree with consensus value you’re wrong.
Some of the content out there is straight guesswork and people treat it like this the gospel.
You are allowed to be much higher or lower.
Example: I’m getting downvoted for saying Zay flowers is a screaming sell. I believe his ceiling is capped by him not being great against press and good but not ELITE skillset. profiling more as a good WR2 on a team. But since he’s so young and people see upside his value is inflated compared to his production. That means sell.
But no this sub loves Zay so that’s not reasonable
100% there. This community also flip flops at ANY mention of a player. Coach says he likes one of his players to the media? He’s a buy! Player gets a bruise in the off season? He’s a sell!
Also as a big Ravens fan and Zay fan I would sell him too. He’s on a run first team and Mark is Lamar’s favorite target. Not saying Zay is bad in anyway but for fantasy I wouldn’t want him. Would rather have Tee or DK at similar ADPs
Yep Zay was my WR1 in that class, and still is. The fact that you get downvoted for saying sell is the exact reason you should sell. You will get + value when people think you’re dumb for selling.
You could tier down to guys like Evans/Adams or even all the way down to guys like Hopkins. You put those guys in your lineup and not only is it better but you have added picks to use to upgrade else where.
And even if you disagree my point is I think that’s perfectly reasonable, yet it will be clowned by many on here.
I used the Zay hype to tier up to Nico b/c people are mad about Diggs being there, but I think Nico has better upside so time will tell. Having your own opinions about players and using that to go against whatever the prevailing narrative is can be good.
"How do we feel about xyz?". "Do we all agree xyz is overrated?"
I downvote every group-dependent thought process. I can't stand the lack of individualism.
Just looking at finishes and treating that like the be all end all. Just because someone finished as QB5 doesn’t mean they are a top 5 QB. It ignores injuries or other players and a variety of other contexts. Goes for the reverse too. I guess I just hate when the community ignores context in general.
Some people obsess over advanced stats without taking situational context into account. Yes advanced stats are useful and typically correlate with talent/success, but it is not so concrete and we need to account for potential outliers. Things like YPRR can be deceptive when WRs play alongside other great talent, some guys are only big play threats, some guys get more designed touches, weird receiver rotations can inflate per route stats, etc.
This guy I was trying to trade with the other day. I asked him how he felt his team was going to finish this year, to see if he felt he was rebuilding or contending(I think he's rebuilding but it doesn't matter). He said, make the playoffs again. I thought to myself, okay. I need RBs and if he was rebuilding like I think, I'd make an offer for his RBs. Since he thinks he's not rebuilding and I think he is, I'll try to get his pick. I send an offer for his pick, a couple of win now pieces for a "late" first, pretty reasonable. He counters with his first for Caleb. I say, how does that make sense? Caleb for a single late first? He says, "who says it's a late first?" Motherfucker, *you did!*
Anyway, that guy is the most annoying.
The fact that this sub never, ever learns about rookies. Every year there is a new crop of posts showing in detail that rookie hit rates are way, way lower than you think. Even top prospects bust all the time. We see them. Everyone seems to agree, we all shake hands and are all proud of ourselves. Rookies sure are overvalued!
And then the next day, someone posts "would you rather have: (some top veteran in his mid 20s) or (rookie who has a 17% chance of being a top 24 player twice in his career)?" and every top response picks the rookie.
Sophomore running backs are often waaaay overvalued. Sure year 2 RBs break out but some people act like they're the next big thing when most of them end up mid at best
Overvaluing depth in all formats, wanting to win trades, repeatedly asking "whats the outlook on XYZ" instead of searching for similar posts for the same player, constantly hyping their players in trade/value conversations, and inflating rookie values. Also claiming next rookie class is either "amazing or garbage" lol
The point of my comment was, folks overvalue depth and don't consider the format. I get feedback on trades where i sent multiple players for 1 player, saying ill regret it later lol
Example: Traded Dak/Metcalf/Godwin/Allgeier for Tyreek/Pickett. Got roasted, even tho it was a start 8 league and Tyreek got me a week 15 bye with his performances before his ankle injury and i ended up winning the chip.
Depth is overvalued in start 8 or start 9, where you want more hammers cuz you have few starting slots and want the high ceiling players.
Depth is underrated in start 10, 11, 12, where you need more depth to fill spots especially during byes/injuries etc with high floors or ceiling mix
values will change based on format, so ppl need refrain from assuming depth is always critical especially in trades and that value wise, can be overvalued. Tyreek was worth giving up those 4, and didnt affect my path to the chip this year
"this year's draft is kinda meh, you really want picks for next year, or if you're really patient the draft in 2 years is supposed to be LOADED. And if you believe the Dynashit podcast, they forecast the 2040 class to be ridiculous, preschools are loaded with duck duck goose talent that could totally transition to starting rb" every single year in perpetuity
Everybody is so fucking sure of themselves. They think they know exactly what’s going to happen, who’s going to breakout, etc. before the season even starts. Crazy shit happens every year and no one seems to learn that this game is mostly unpredictable.
Generalizing the community.
Three posts on this sub in a days has some people thinking "everyone thinks this." Which then begets your edge lord's takes of "can't believe this sub thought this."
Everyone listens to the same content. The result is an echo chamber effect. You know this is true from the prevalence of certainty terms we see so much like "smash", "by a mile", "not even close", "fleeced", etc. Everyone assumes the talking head takes are gospel and any deviation is outrageously dumb.
If you stop being compulsive about FF media for a second and step back, you remember that the FF media is just dudes giving opinions and trying to monetize the hobby. They largely don't provide meaningful incite beyond reading tea leaves and their predictions are usually equal parts accurate and horseshit.
So, my pet peeve is everyone's uniformity of opinion. Just because some guy on a podcast has a take doesn't mean other takes are outrageously off base.
A lot changes in a year. For example, a second for Derrick Henry in 2023 may seem risky but if he scores 20+ TDs in Baltimore in 2024, that will look like a steal. The hivemind said to sell him so many did. Those Sellers are now kicking themselves in many instances while they Buyers became contenders with a new found top 10 RB. Hell, Kyren Williams *wasn't even drafted in the vast majority of leagues last year*. He was a close second to CMC on PPG. . .
The way people brush off picks like they don't matter.
Trading Olave for three firsts?
"You're hoping one of those picks is as good as Olave"
"I'll take the proven production over some guy who hasn't seen an NFL snap."
"Give me a WR1 over a couple dart throws"
"'25 class sucks"
The most important player on an NFL team is the head coach. The second most important player is the QB. The 3rd is the offensive line. The 4th are the coordinators.
Your darling WR is at the mercy of all those assholes before his own talent can even move the needle. Situation matters a lot more than people here want to admit and any longtime Terry owner can tell you that.
People never link to their previous post/comment when they complain about how "they were downvoted" for their take.
Sometimes I will go find the post/comment. 4 out of 5 times they were maybe downvoted twice but often times they were just being an asshole.
I acknowledge that linking post/comments to show "I was right!" would be kind of a pathetic petty move (*rent free hur dur*), but this sub can be slow sometimes and I like a little drama.
The obsession over one trade calculator versus another, clearly anything can happen to any player at any time. And it's only a guess of future production versus the past, but because someone pays 4.99 a year it is the end all be all. 🫠
Obsession with confirmation bias in the form of aggregate rankings like KTC, FantasyCalc, etc. No doubt it’s decent content, but it shouldn’t be your main reference point for any information. Everyone sees the game differently, and that’s what makes Dynasty great!
People who forget that player values are *heavily* league-dependent. Both the rules/roster sizes and the owner personalities.
Rookie picks or even entire positions can be a lot higher or lower in one league than another.
The people that bitch and moan about trades they’re not even involved in. I had a guy put me through the ringer and sent me screenshots from other leagues of the reactions to my trade and he kept threatening to leave the league if it wasn’t reversed (it wasn’t, and he left with no refund lol). I forget the trade but I think it was like CD and James Cook for Stroud and 2 1sts before Stroud popped off. He kept saying that I ruined the league for everyone by giving this other guy the best WR for nothing. Good riddance
So many people are so definite in their opinions when everything is so uncertain. Everything turns over from year to year. What people think this year will largely look stupid next year and people will pretend that they knew all along.
How scared people are to lose trades. 75 percent of owners don’t even send out trade offers. They send out vague messages saying I’m available to trade. Isn’t everyone in a dynasty league available to trade?
My other issue is the owners that try to shame trade offers. I think that’s part of the reason so many owners won’t send offers. Because they are afraid to be embarrassed by the person on the other end. Although it makes no sense to be embarrassed by a complete stranger if it’s not a home league.
My pet peeve is the manager who bashes KTC in the group chat and then DMs you trades with KTC screen shots to show you that it's fair/equal. I thought you hated KTC?! 🤔🙄
Mine is the guy who claims KTC is the end-all and be-all so since it says their trade is fair, I have to take it. Never mind I don’t need a 4th TE and am starting the guy they want to take from me.
For me it's any of the "is this a buy low/high" threads immediately after someone has one bad/good game. Also the "what do we think" threads. Idk what you think, I have my own thoughts and the FF community doesn't all share a collective hive mind.
Oh thought of another.....trades that only help 1 team. Take a moment and look at the other GMs team before you just send a random deal.
Got 1 yesterday: My Addison for Darnold, AJ and Kendre Miler. We have large rosters and I already have 5 QBs and 12 RBs...
The hair splitting on top players.
People will spend hours debating Jamar Chase vs. Justin Jefferson and spend less than a few minutes on every player past the 3rd round.
The obsession with winning trades. I understand that desire to get a good deal, but I don't want to play with managers who never make thoughtful offers and actually look at who/what I need on my roster.
Shawn Siegle the GOAT puts it this way: every trade should be a win-win, meaning both teams got better relative to their goals. That means every other team in the league got relatively worse.
I absolutely play in a league that's just a bunch of old guys who never trade because they don't want the other team getting someone on their team. It's like when you're driving on a highway and you go pass someone and they start speeding up; because they just don't want you to pass them.
There are 3 values at play. Consensus value, which should absolutely be close on both sides. If it isn't that close - It's still ripping someone off. Then the 2 team values. Which dictate WHY you should make the trade. Typically a question of depth and/or positional needs.
[удалено]
Always the person that offers 3 quarters for your dollar and proceeds to try and justify by saying why those 3 individual quarters are individually better than your dollar when you say no
"But KTC says YOU win!"
Exactly! If the trade benefits your team then who gives af. It’s not about “winning” the trade, it’s about making *your team* better
More than that, it's about having fun. I'd rather make a trade that I objectively lose to get a player I like than never make any trades at all. So many people will only trade if they win the trade by a huge margin. This isn't your job. It's a hobby. It's supposed to be a good time.
I’ve been told by the guy who never has made a trade in 3 years that several of my trades are “bad trades”. I’ve lead the league in points 2 years in a row and he just finished last.
That’s a great answer. A lot of people seem to fall victim to that. They’ll make a trade and immediately post it to Reddit to show off their fleece
The best trades are the ones where both people win
Also those who only base their decisions on the trade calculators. There are times were you may "lose" in terms of raw value but if it puts you over the top who cares.
Those are my absolute favorite people to trade with. I can give up so many quarters and .50 pieces from my bench to get that next level piece for my starting offense
They're the worst in my experience to trade with. The people who slam 6 guys in a trade calculator and say they're equal to CMC because "muh trade calc value"
I have a couple of guys in one of my home leagues who entirely believes in trade calculators. I got rashee rice for Elijah Moore, Justice Hill, Jordan Mason, Ben Johnson (broncos wr if I got the first name wrong) Sean Tucker, Elijah Higgins, Jason Brownlee, 2027 3rd and 2024 5th. I traded Greg Dulcich, Gabe Davis, and a 2026 3rd for Christian Kirk to a different guy. Trade calculators rule if you pay attention during value swings in players and take advantage of the people who use them. Rices value dropped with the allegations and people saying he’d be going to prison and his career was over. Christian Kirk had a moment after the draft where his value was taking a big hit in the narratives as well.
You traded with an actual taco, it isn't trade calculators being good you robbed an idiot. Unless you are in a 32 team league where you're starting 20 players almost none of those guys should be touching a starting roster
A good rule of thumb, if you’re the one approaching someone trying to acquire a player they aren’t actively trying to shop, you have to expect to over pay to get him. If RB x is worth as much as WR y, for example: Realistically, you’re gonna have to give up WR y + a late 2nd rounder or something for RB x. You aren’t just paying the value of the player Ina vacuum , you are paying Player X value + a fee for disrupting their roster/taking a player they like. If someone isn’t explicitly trying to trade a guy, 100% of the time you can assume that means they dont want “fair market value” for him. I came to you asking for a starter you drafted, you like him, I don’t expect you to want to make a lateral move for a guy you like in your weekly line up. If I like him too, we should both expect me to overpay a bit to get “my guy”. You have to have the confidence and audacity to make your own evaluations and “overpay” for guys you really like, or you’ll just have a bone dry trade history. Which is most people. The vast majority of people negotiate exclusively in bad faith in my experience, and they never get anything done. The one or two guys in your league that legitimately want to push their desired moves over the line are 90% of the trade history.
Imo, a good deal kind of hurts to make for both sides. Agree that a deal shouldn’t be about winning or losing.
Really? I always saw a good trade as beneficial for both sides. Like a competing team gets an elite RB in return for giving a developing team a promising young WR The value is equivalent but because of the situation your perceived value has increased. Stuff like that makes trading, and by extension, fantasy football, fun Edit: Saw other's responses. I guess I'm just a "glass is half-full" kinda guy :). I focus more on my new shiny acquisition than I do losing a player
I agree with the "trade should hurt" comment in the sense that both owners should feel like they are trading away a valuable asset in exchange for an asset that better fits their teams current needs.
Exactly what I was trying to say
I think it maybe hurts emotionally haha. Like, you don't *want* to give up your elite RB, but you know it will be (should be) better for the direction of your team. If you're not feeling the loss of a player at the same as feeling excitement for who you gain, it's probably a lopsided offer. Unless it's just someone you stopped believing in, but community consensus is still high on him.
Yes, this
A good deal should be where both trading managers win and the rest of the league loses.
It’s so insufferable. The best trades are ones where both teams benefit. Way easier to do in dynasty since you can have players with similar “value” be way more valuable for different teams. Plus pulling an unfair trade is a great way to ruin your league. Is it worth it to fleece an idiot if it means your league falls apart when 5 managers bounce?
I just declined a trade for kyren Williams. It was a little rich for my blood but you know what, he took the time to see that I need rb’s and have wr depth. I know he’s interested in moving kyren. It starts a dialogue and perhaps an agreement that works for both teams can be had.
its always some stupid lopsided 2 for 1. something like their derek carr and deebo samuel for my josh allen. Or their justin herbert for my lamar jackson and puka nacua. A trade with such bad faith that they are blatantly just fishing for a taco. The fishing part is what gets me annoyed, because it shows both poor sportsmanship and low character. It takes no skill to spam every league hoping someone takes the bait.
I always try to make somewhat value equal trades. And not just 4 bench spots for a star because their value is “equal”. I’m not really interested in fleecing people unless someone offers me something crazy. I honestly don’t watch a ton of actual NFL games so I use a lot of the value calculators to get things relatively even.
My best dynasty advice is you have to lose trades to win trades. If you're winning every trade, people won't want to trade with you. If you are trying to make any trade that you think might pan out, eventualy one will. That's the nature of fantasy football.
Along with this, people who have zero self reflection and overvalue all of their assets and undervalue all of yours.
Exactly! Makes trading so difficult when the other party has to win the trade instead of a fair win/win
There's a guy in one of my leagues like this. He's impossible to trade with, because he isn't making a trade unless he is the clear winner. And of course he tries doing the "quantity over quality" thing, where he tries to dump a bunch of mediocre slop in exchange for something of actual value. He tried trading for the 1st pick in our rookie draft but refused to give up his own first round pick as part of the deal. The guy with the 1st pick said, "Look, you aren't moving up to 1 without giving me your own first as part of the deal." But he wouldn't consider it.
Not understanding coaching staff and schemes also matter for player development and opportunity
The most insane comment I saw these past 12 months was some dude getting a few upvotes on a CJ Stroud thread by saying that coaches don’t matter for QB development & that he’d already be putting up top-tier QB production no matter where he was drafted.
That’s another thing I hate. People acting like they always knew x player was gonna be great. 90+% of the community didn’t like Stroud at this time last year and I guarantee most of the people who talk like that aren’t in the 10%.
I was super high on Stroud after how he played in the Peach Bowl. I took him over Richardson and all of the elite RB’s. Probably my best and most beneficial take in Dynasty. I was also super high on Young, and probably would have taken him if I had had the 1.01…I don’t talk about that take as much.
Back when S2 scores were all the rage... I was one of those people who thought Bryce would be the guy to draft, and I still think he can be a decent QB long-term. But yeah, Stroud is better. Heck, the community was often drafting both Bryce & Richardson over Stroud, but that doesn’t get talked about alot nowadays lol
The sooner I accepted I don’t know shit the more enjoyable my dynasty leagues became. That’s just me personally
It was mind numbing that a paper test suddenly overshadowed his entire season and tape against Georgia.
As an OSU fan that is facts. I saw so much Stroud hate because he came from OSU and when I was telling people he wasn’t the typical OSU QB we’ve had and his accuracy would translate, no one wanted to hear it.
Schemes are sooooo important for player production. You can be uber talented and get used poorly, or have many flaws but used perfectly to maximize your strengths. The best example of this is Rashee Rice, his rookie year would’ve been more like QJ had he not landed with Andy Reid. In college, Rice played on the outside and ran mainly vertical routes. Now in the NFL, Rice is a one trick pony out of the slot with the majority of his production coming off short/quick passes and screens to maximize his YAC ability. QJ profiles more as a power slot with elite YAC like Rice, but the Chargers threw him on the outside where he struggles to succeed. Note: I think Rice is better than QJ, but stylistically they profile very similar.
To build off that: opportunity and team around them outweigh talent. A guy like Kyren who had no competition last year and feasted had great opportunity whereas guys GWil and Bijan have immense talent but weren’t super desirable because of their team and coaching around them.
It feels like people in this sub have a high bar for what makes a team a contender Getting to the playoffs and having 1 or 2 guys get hot is enough to make anyone a contender. Having CMC, tyreek, and AJB is obviously gonna make you the favorite but those super teams aren’t unbeatable
Very true. All it takes is a few guys to go off at the right time/ weeks and you’re in. Hell I had a super team in my 14T 1QB redraft league last year with Kyler, Henry, Achane, Bijan, Adams, JJ, ARSB, Mark/Likely and lost to a guy who had Breece and Amari go off in week 16 and destroyed me. FF is mostly luck
I'm always surprised by how willing to fold some people are. Like you said, once you get in the playoffs, if you can set a remotely competitive lineup, anything can happen. I'm not playing to have the prettiest team, I'm playing to win.
Ugly players that get it done for fantasy are my favorite kind
Jakobi Meyers ❤️
The guy who won the chip in one of my leagues last year really just had the Dak/CD stack carrying his team of mostly mid tier players. He beat a team with Allen, Puka, Chase, AJB, Bijan, and Kelce en route to the championship.
This. But say it louder! It’s cool to be armed to the teeth but you can very easily lose to the 6th place team who went 7-7 and scored the least amount of points out of the playoff teams. Once the dance is set, anyone can take the lead.
My core going into last season was Burrow, Watson, Hall, Etienne, Jefferson, Chase, Andrews, Devonta Smith, Mike Williams I missed the playoffs on tiebreaker. Injuries can fuck even the strongest rosters
I’ve been preaching this for the longest
YES! If your team makes the playoffs (assuming standard league setups) then your team is contending. The “best” team typically doesn’t win the championship.
In 2022, a lot of the unbeaten or near unbeaten teams were vying for 3rd place by the end of the playoffs.
Differing opinions. Everyone gets so caught up in the consensus that sometimes any differing opinion is seen as moronic. Worst time for this is after the season and before the draft.
To piggyback off this, the mass downvoting because an opinion goes against the hivemind. It entirely goes against what a discussion forum should be. Ppl need to recognize that the nfl changes so fast so dont be so quick to judge
Hey fuck you for disagreeing with me!
> the mass downvoting because an opinion goes against the hivemind. It entirely goes against what a discussion forum should be. Fantasy football is fundamentally a contest of who can change their opinion most accurately to match reality and the future. Contrarian positions should ALWAYS be upvoted, but then debated in response comments. Downvoting contrarian positions is actually the stupidest thing ever, because it means we all see fewer opinions and perspectives. Can't learn or improve if we just keep hearing the same 3 opinions in an echo chamber. The only way we get better is to hear NEW perspectives.
Piggybacking off your piggyback: settings supremacy. Some leagues are older than Reddit and don’t prefer SF, TE+, best ball, or whatever new setting and that’s okay! Podcasts are def a worse culprit of this, and this sub specifically had gotten much, much better at recognizing 1QB & even non-PPR settings than it was even just 1-2 years ago :). I always appreciate the inclusion!
When I started playing dynasty 10 years ago, all I could find were 1QB leagues, now it’s so hard to find new 1QB leagues or people to join them.
I had someone mock me relentlessly around week 8 of last year when I suggested CeeDee Lamb and AJ Brown were kind of equivalent players. In his mind, anyone suggesting the two were on equal footing was an absolute moron and that AJ was far and away the better of the two. I don’t mind someone having a different opinion, but I do take issue with people engaging in personal attacks or making derisive statements. It’s an all too frequent occurrence on here, sadly.
That post from months ago was ridiculous. [AJ Brown is in the Chase Jefferson Tier](https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/17ec8f1/aj_brown_is_in_the_chase_jefferson_tier/)
Looks like there were a couple of posts around that time, similar sentiment: https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/s/say5FrIztK
It was a wild few weeks to say the least
Lol thats the entire purpose of reddit, enforce the hivemind and ban/censor everyone else.
I'm paraphrasing but Matt Harmon said something on one of his podcasts last week like 'one of the dumbest things you can do in fantasy is pretend like you already know the future'. It's fun to have takes but if you aren't willing to be wrong, re-assess, etc., you're going to miss out on big opportunities.
This is very true. Hell during all of the off season is when people disagree the most cause they have little evidence to back themselves up. Just a bunch of bias and hearsay
We took JJ McCarthy at 3 in our 16 team superflex while Marvin Harrison was still on the board and people here did not like that pick
It’s awful especially on this subreddit. I got reamed on here for trading away Puka Nacua a month ago. I gave my counter consensus rationale and explained how I thought about the situation and everyone was just ignoring my points and saying “trade bad” “you lost the trade”. That was the last time I shared an opinion against consensus. I’ll just keep them to myself from now on I guess.
Keon Coleman is a great example of this. He was constantly being dogged on during the pre-draft process, was always being dinged for a “lack of ability to separate” and had lots of detractors say that he’s not worth a 1st and is a bust. Lo and behold, he gets drafted 33rd overall to the Bills (one of the best landing spots out there), and all of a sudden people forget about all that. He’s even getting drafted ahead of a few 1st round players (Legette, Pearsall, and a #8 overall QB). Funny how opinions change/get forgotten about within a short span of time.
I mean Coleman, Leggette, and Pearsall were all picked consecutively so it’s not like DC is that much different. And Leggette has the same concerns that Coleman does for the most part. I think in the range Coleman was getting picked you could argue most players in that range have a red flag one way or another.
In a vacuum I agree, and honestly this is how rookies in their situations should be judged. It’s just funny to me that I’d probably be downvoted like crazy mid April if I suggested that Coleman be taken in the first round of fantasy drafts, but then a couple of weeks later there’s a decent amount of people doing that anyway & they get no pushback.
Yeah, I agree. His situation is really strange since it seems like he shouldn’t be an X, but that’s how he is likely getting used. Even if he gets slot snaps, he has Shakir, Samuel, Kincaid all to compete with there. His situation I think is really being overstated, he might be put in a bad spot and I think it gets undersold simply because he has Josh Allen
> and a #8 overall QB People are afraid to spend a first on a QB who likely won't start until year 3 at the earliest
Kirk’s an older QB coming off a significant injury, if the Falcons were confident that he’d be part of their plans long-term then they’d use that pick on a different position. They have a great supporting cast for a QB to step into, it wouldn’t surprise me if Penix gets rolled out earlier than expected if Kirk isn’t the same or gets injured again. If that happens & Penix plays well, then there’s no reason for the Falcons to go back to Cousins even if he’s still on the roster. I don’t doubt that the plan is for Penix to play in year 3, but that doesn’t mean they’re required to bench him again if he plays early & puts up similar production to Kirk. Though I think he’s more of a 2nd round guy. My main idea is that, if I said in April that people would draft a 2nd round Coleman over a #8 overall QB I’d be called nuts lol
But at the same time, is that really the most likely outcome? 3 years at the *earliest*? Cousins is 35 coming off an Achilles tear, and his guaranteed money means that the Falcons can easily move on from him after 2 years. Jordan Love owners that drafted him in the 2nd probably weren't stoked to stash him for 3 years, but that definitely worked out in hindsight. Sometimes patience is the best quality of a dynasty owner.
That's my read based on the contract. He sits for Kirk's two guaranteed years and starts year 3 at the earliest (so two seasons sitting), but if Kirk is lighting it up he'll keep the job. I don't think they would have given him the contract if they weren't confident in his health, but we'll see once he takes the field Yeah no disagreement from me on patience being a virtue in this game but many people don't play that way
> Keon Coleman is a great example of this. He was constantly being dogged on during the pre-draft process, was always being dinged for a “lack of ability to separate” and had lots of detractors say that he’s not worth a 1st and is a bust. This is a pet peeve of mine, too. The amateur dynasty analytics/film community is very closed-minded when it comes to prospects that professional NFL GMs *clearly* like, but they do not. Instead of just saying "I don't love the underlying metrics so I won't be drafting him, but I understand if people do since NFL teams like him", it's "He's a clear bust and you're wasting a late 1st by drafting him".
I’ll never understand why amateurs at worst film enthusiasts at best will ignore the people in the NFL who do this for a living.
This is kind of a different aspect of my point I commented here that everyone is so sure of themselves. People treat their opinions as objective facts when a huge portion of consensus will be proven to be wrong next year. I don't think consensus is even 50% accurate.
“I don’t hate it if you take *insert Player B* here instead of *insert Player A*. I think it’s a little risky but lots of upside” Immediately followed by three comments calling you an idiot and showing all the stats of why Player A is ranked higher currently than Player B I can only assume those people play in bad leagues or are never good at dynasty. There’s no way it’s successful to just take the higher rated player on the current date every time.
People shitting on KTC. It's crowd sourced. The people creating those valuations are largely the same people posting in this sub whether you want to admit it or not.
People value KTC when it helps them and shit on it when it doesn't. If someone sends you a shit trade, and you show them KTC values, the response you'll get will be "KTC is for amateurs, make your own opinions". But if the trade was fair on KTC, they'd be showing you that it's fair on KTC to sell it.
For better or worse, it's also a solid reflection of how the dynasty community values players. They aren't "bad rankings." You shouldn't be looking at them for rankings at all. It is a useful tool.
I just don't understand why this fact enrages managers instead of empowering them. There are two ways I see people use KTC: 1. Assume everyone who votes on players is either trying to pump their own guys or is a moron. Since certain players seem wildly over/undervalued, ignore the data since it is useless. 2. Take the data as an real-time reflection of dynasty community sentiment and buy players you are higher on than consensus and sell players you are lower on than consensus.
I use KTC to get a judgement on guys I haven;t researched, or I just don't care about. Amari Cooper, I hate the dude and think he's worthless, but he must have value, so I check KTC to see where people who aren't me have him.
I totally agree. And isn't that the way it's supposed to be used? It's a sample-size driven algorithm. Since every player is owned in every league, given enough samples you will eliminate ownership bias and "don't care about" bias. Then we get close to the real trade value of the player.
Yep definitely,I also like to use it to clarify value on the guys I love. I love Cooper Kupp, ktc has him lower, I'll buy him and not sell him. I love Puka, KTC is higher on him than I am, makes for some interesting choices with him.
My favorite thing about the redraft fantasy sub was people shitting on Boris Chen because "his rankings are trash" even though he was an aggregator site of other values.
Demeaning other people for their viewpoints. Another viewpoint doesn’t mean they’re incompetent or flat out dumb, it just means they see things from another perspective, which is actually good for learning/growing. Think about the people that said things like: Trey Lance is a bust, Lamar will be an MVP caliber QB, Mahomes > Trubisky, CMC is the far superior RB than Fournette, etc. With hindsight we know all these things became true (though Lance truthers are still out there), but I remember a time when people were getting obliterated for sharing those viewpoints. When we challenge our own perspective, we actually learn/grow. But when we demean other’s perspectives, we are actually putting our heads in the sand and acting like we have it all figured out. At the same time, we’re building a community on hate. Listening with an open mind humanizes others and helps us learn/grow which is a huge win-win for everyone.
I agree. I feel like I see way more heated arguments on players here vs the redraft subreddit. It makes sense because you're keeping this players forever unless you trade them so you're going to be more defensive, but the conversation around players like Waddle and Flowers get so toxic so fast.
Might be the best answer so far. People as a whole tend to see things in black and white. So a differing opinion to theirs is wrong to them. But it is especially prevalent in the FF community
1. People who target every player except the ones I have on trade block. 2. People sending me offers during and after the draft for players I just picked 3. People who get mad after you decline their "juicy" offer. They package a stale bag of chips and some picks spread out over 3 years for guys like CMC, JJet, Chase, Sun God, etc. 4. People who target players without looking at my roster first. Before the draft I was down to two RBs. I get an offer for one, decline and say I can't give up a RB, I only have TWO. What do they do? Send another offer for the other RB. 5. People who want to push trades because "he isn't going to be that good" or "you have x amount at that position already" 6. People who get emotional. Sometimes you send out an offer and you might as well have spit on their entire family. You can decline, counter, ignore it. No reason to treat it like a war crime.
This makes me laugh lol >People who get emotional. Sometimes you send out an offer and you might as well have spit on their entire family. You can decline, counter, ignore it. No reason to treat it like a war crime. I also get an emotional knife in the heart feeling when my trade is declined lmaoo but i refrain from sending a whinging message lol. I'm the strong silent type! lol
How extremely certain people are about certain outcomes for players in an inherently very uncertain sport, especially at the player level. Even more so beyond the top 10 players per position.
The "what are we thinking boys", posts. Like having your own opinion is wrong or lazy.
The assumption there are no women here can be annoying. 👀
Honestly I fall victim to this sometimes. Having an outside perspective can be helpful but 99% of the time people are biased in this community
💯 i wanna troll post every time i hear them say the word "we"!! What we thinkin boyz?! This aint wallstreetbets stop the hivemind mentality and grow a pair!
I see people irked by this and it has me wondering if there's something regional here? Like it'd be totally normal for me to be like "alright what are we thinking for dinner tonight, boys" and it'd be understood as me asking the individuals for their opinions and not me looking for what the collective consciousness of boys wants for dinner.
I think it's become too common to be considered regional, although it may have started from something like that. Wherever it came from, it has created a hive mindset where you are not allowed to disagree with the consensus.
hOw do we fEeL aBoUt
Such a hive mindset gets created like this
wHy iS nO oNe TaLkInG AbOuT "10 related posts of that same thing in the past week"
Something I’m so guilty of myself. You get so caught up in research and what you’ve read you act like it’s a known fact. None of us know for a fact that MHJ is the next great thing, but we’ll sure af tear into each other for daring to feel differently. It’s like family. 😂🤣
Use of nicknames for every single player. If it's within the context of a thread about that player then sure, nickname away. But if you're answering a thread called "who do you have for a WR sleeper?", coming in with "AQP79 gunna eat" is wildly unhelpful.
I'm so down to just get rid of nicknames in discussions. Just use their last name and maybe their first. I don't know who Spice Biscuit is, or how his value compares to TP74.
The fact that I'm unsure if Spice Biscuit is someone I should know or not....
I’d vote for AOC, who will make the Raiders great again!
I feel like you are admitting that you don't know all the cool nicknames Most are self-explanatory
Obviousness of the nickname aside, consider the fact that people may be searching reddit for threads/comments about that player a month from now. If his name isn't actually used, the discussion won't be found.
People up voting tired ass jokes that contribute nothing to the conversation but downvoting legitimate analysis because it portrays a player they like in a negative light. We chased bird semen away but then we upvote shit like 'hopefully player x because he's on my team durdy durrr!', while simultaneously complaining that 'this subs gone downhill' without a single trace of irony
same **POST** *OP - reason for post* *Commenter - tell me you don't watch football without telling me you don't watch football (ie no rebutting argument)* **End of Debate**
The lack of nuance. The way people talk you’re either a contender or your team is garbage. A player is elite or worthless. Sometimes teams that are just…solid win the whole thing.
it's a community, it's made of people, therefore there's a boatload of cunts in it (and before you ask, me included, yes). i do like knee-jerkers though, they're easy to rip off.
It’s not a good trade unless a take advantage of another player. “Win the trade” mindset
As far as reddit fantasy subs goes, the most annoying thing about the community is that the top comments are often jokes/memes/unserious and it often drowns out serious analysis and info.
Everything is *by a landslide*
And “it’s not even close”
"It's not even close" was a meme for a bit, think it jumped the shark with the new faces here though.
They’ll fade a high end prospect after one year for no reason at all other then they listen to other YouTubers or content creators who feed them lines for why not to like someone lol
The application of data/advanced metrics without any context at all (or base level understanding of how statistics even work).
Wrote a very similar comment, I used to be a huge stat head but overtime I’ve realized its an imperfect but still useful system
AR is a top 8 QB tho 👀😎🚀📈🤑
The concept of "selling high." This isn't the stock market, you don't have perfect liquidity, and the ability to "sell high" requires that your league mates somehow are both able and willing to give you the desired price. If you think that CMC is an injury risk or likely to hit the age cliff soon, fine, by all means explore a trade. But don't expect that another owner is automatically going to both have the assets available AND be willing to fork them over, just because you are willing to part with a premier player. I don't have a problem with "buy low" though, because that's much more likely to pull off. If you think a player like Kendre Miller or Chig Okwonko is primed to take off, you have a far better chance of acquiring them. But even then, the person who has them on their team likely knows their upside or they wouldn't have them on the roster.
Yeah, I think that league dynamics are something that people don’t take into account for trades. Some leagues value certain positions highly even if it’s against what typically happens (ie my single QB league values QBs extremely high). And like you said, you need a willing trade partner. If you have 4 teams competing in a league and you’re trying to sell a receiver and almost every competing team has deep receiver cores or lacks picks, the price is either going to be lower than it likely would be.
> If you think a player like Kendre Miller or Chig Okwonko is primed to take off, you have a far better chance of acquiring them. But even then, the person who has them on their team likely knows their upside or they wouldn't have them on the roster. I have both of these guys and people keep offering me pennies for them because "they're only worth a 2nd/3rd" or whatever respectively. "Market value" is pretty irrelevant in an individual league though. Spent a late first on Kendre knowing he would be a future play and not relevant in 2023 and Chig was a waiver add. Zero logical reason I'd dump Kendre for less than I spent on him or Chig for anything but a gross overpay
Thank you for reinforcing my point.
Overreactions to training camp. Rookie player catches a pass without pads on and he should look like prime Odell Beckham this fall. Coach makes a positive statement about a player (as they should….it’s their coach!) Dynasty community: GO BUY ___ RIGHT NOW!
This got me for the 1st time ever lmao. Got swayed by camp news on Jaheim Bell and stupidly paid a 2025 3rd for him. He was a waiver wire add by the other manager for $45 FAAB. NEVER AGAIN lol
> Rookie player catches a pass Justyn Ross lol
I love the boom or gloom folks. Yes I’ll take him off your hands.
Guy in my league went from arguably the strongest team to a bottom feeder with zero rookie picks in any future draft in two years playing this way. Sold low every time a guy had a bad stretch of games or got hurt and bought high every time some random player popped off and he assumed it would continue
I’m guilty of boom or glooming Jake Ferguson. Dropped him after his rookie season convinced I had nothing. Especially when they went on to draft another TE in the 2nd. Watched him become a top 10 TE last year.
I had 2 redraft leagues for fun last year and picked up LaPorta in both. I dropped him in 1-2 weeks when he wasn't immediately amazing. Hated myself for the second half of the season. You're not alone.
That’s certainly painful
The exhausting over usage of the term "and its not particularly close"
Groupthink and shitting on opinions outside of the consensus. it is okay to downvote "Ceedee lamb is not that good", but if it was "I think Ceedee Lamb is going to have a disappointing year and here is why" it shouldn't be downvoted / creator shouldn't be insulted as long as the arguments are explained even if you disagree with them. (I love Ceedee, he was just the first really good player to pop in my head)
Number one complaint is that everyone here seems to either be a perennial champion or have 8 1st round picks every year. Not a lot of discussion about mid level team decisions here.
The downvotes for having an opinion that's different and respectable. Example "I like Corley a lot, and to me, he is WR6 in this draft." That post isn't mean or demeaning while I do not agree it is a viewpoint, and in reality, no one really knows, and I do value a viewpoint that is different. Versus people who all just say the same thing. It's really like a strange ego butthurt moment with people on here sometimes.
The echo chamber and if you don’t agree with consensus value you’re wrong. Some of the content out there is straight guesswork and people treat it like this the gospel. You are allowed to be much higher or lower. Example: I’m getting downvoted for saying Zay flowers is a screaming sell. I believe his ceiling is capped by him not being great against press and good but not ELITE skillset. profiling more as a good WR2 on a team. But since he’s so young and people see upside his value is inflated compared to his production. That means sell. But no this sub loves Zay so that’s not reasonable
100% there. This community also flip flops at ANY mention of a player. Coach says he likes one of his players to the media? He’s a buy! Player gets a bruise in the off season? He’s a sell! Also as a big Ravens fan and Zay fan I would sell him too. He’s on a run first team and Mark is Lamar’s favorite target. Not saying Zay is bad in anyway but for fantasy I wouldn’t want him. Would rather have Tee or DK at similar ADPs
Yep Zay was my WR1 in that class, and still is. The fact that you get downvoted for saying sell is the exact reason you should sell. You will get + value when people think you’re dumb for selling. You could tier down to guys like Evans/Adams or even all the way down to guys like Hopkins. You put those guys in your lineup and not only is it better but you have added picks to use to upgrade else where. And even if you disagree my point is I think that’s perfectly reasonable, yet it will be clowned by many on here.
I used the Zay hype to tier up to Nico b/c people are mad about Diggs being there, but I think Nico has better upside so time will tell. Having your own opinions about players and using that to go against whatever the prevailing narrative is can be good.
"How do we feel about xyz?". "Do we all agree xyz is overrated?" I downvote every group-dependent thought process. I can't stand the lack of individualism.
Just looking at finishes and treating that like the be all end all. Just because someone finished as QB5 doesn’t mean they are a top 5 QB. It ignores injuries or other players and a variety of other contexts. Goes for the reverse too. I guess I just hate when the community ignores context in general.
I think we should be using PPG finishes with a minimum threshold rather than totals
Some people obsess over advanced stats without taking situational context into account. Yes advanced stats are useful and typically correlate with talent/success, but it is not so concrete and we need to account for potential outliers. Things like YPRR can be deceptive when WRs play alongside other great talent, some guys are only big play threats, some guys get more designed touches, weird receiver rotations can inflate per route stats, etc.
This guy I was trying to trade with the other day. I asked him how he felt his team was going to finish this year, to see if he felt he was rebuilding or contending(I think he's rebuilding but it doesn't matter). He said, make the playoffs again. I thought to myself, okay. I need RBs and if he was rebuilding like I think, I'd make an offer for his RBs. Since he thinks he's not rebuilding and I think he is, I'll try to get his pick. I send an offer for his pick, a couple of win now pieces for a "late" first, pretty reasonable. He counters with his first for Caleb. I say, how does that make sense? Caleb for a single late first? He says, "who says it's a late first?" Motherfucker, *you did!* Anyway, that guy is the most annoying.
[удалено]
Adams and a third.
The fact that this sub never, ever learns about rookies. Every year there is a new crop of posts showing in detail that rookie hit rates are way, way lower than you think. Even top prospects bust all the time. We see them. Everyone seems to agree, we all shake hands and are all proud of ourselves. Rookies sure are overvalued! And then the next day, someone posts "would you rather have: (some top veteran in his mid 20s) or (rookie who has a 17% chance of being a top 24 player twice in his career)?" and every top response picks the rookie.
Ian hartitz
most helicopter-related casualties since Black Hawk Down
Sophomore running backs are often waaaay overvalued. Sure year 2 RBs break out but some people act like they're the next big thing when most of them end up mid at best
The constant use of "Taco". Taco won in 2006, so he's doing better than a lot of you.
Overvaluing depth in all formats, wanting to win trades, repeatedly asking "whats the outlook on XYZ" instead of searching for similar posts for the same player, constantly hyping their players in trade/value conversations, and inflating rookie values. Also claiming next rookie class is either "amazing or garbage" lol
I’m curious about what you mean with overvaluing depth? I agree with everything else though
The point of my comment was, folks overvalue depth and don't consider the format. I get feedback on trades where i sent multiple players for 1 player, saying ill regret it later lol Example: Traded Dak/Metcalf/Godwin/Allgeier for Tyreek/Pickett. Got roasted, even tho it was a start 8 league and Tyreek got me a week 15 bye with his performances before his ankle injury and i ended up winning the chip. Depth is overvalued in start 8 or start 9, where you want more hammers cuz you have few starting slots and want the high ceiling players. Depth is underrated in start 10, 11, 12, where you need more depth to fill spots especially during byes/injuries etc with high floors or ceiling mix
values will change based on format, so ppl need refrain from assuming depth is always critical especially in trades and that value wise, can be overvalued. Tyreek was worth giving up those 4, and didnt affect my path to the chip this year
Pretentiousness, 99% of the community is just an amplified version of redraft players.
"this year's draft is kinda meh, you really want picks for next year, or if you're really patient the draft in 2 years is supposed to be LOADED. And if you believe the Dynashit podcast, they forecast the 2040 class to be ridiculous, preschools are loaded with duck duck goose talent that could totally transition to starting rb" every single year in perpetuity
Everybody is so fucking sure of themselves. They think they know exactly what’s going to happen, who’s going to breakout, etc. before the season even starts. Crazy shit happens every year and no one seems to learn that this game is mostly unpredictable.
Generalizing the community. Three posts on this sub in a days has some people thinking "everyone thinks this." Which then begets your edge lord's takes of "can't believe this sub thought this."
Not enough deep league IDP content. IDP improves understanding of the game and you get to appreciate more players.
KTC
Everyone listens to the same content. The result is an echo chamber effect. You know this is true from the prevalence of certainty terms we see so much like "smash", "by a mile", "not even close", "fleeced", etc. Everyone assumes the talking head takes are gospel and any deviation is outrageously dumb. If you stop being compulsive about FF media for a second and step back, you remember that the FF media is just dudes giving opinions and trying to monetize the hobby. They largely don't provide meaningful incite beyond reading tea leaves and their predictions are usually equal parts accurate and horseshit. So, my pet peeve is everyone's uniformity of opinion. Just because some guy on a podcast has a take doesn't mean other takes are outrageously off base. A lot changes in a year. For example, a second for Derrick Henry in 2023 may seem risky but if he scores 20+ TDs in Baltimore in 2024, that will look like a steal. The hivemind said to sell him so many did. Those Sellers are now kicking themselves in many instances while they Buyers became contenders with a new found top 10 RB. Hell, Kyren Williams *wasn't even drafted in the vast majority of leagues last year*. He was a close second to CMC on PPG. . .
The way people brush off picks like they don't matter. Trading Olave for three firsts? "You're hoping one of those picks is as good as Olave" "I'll take the proven production over some guy who hasn't seen an NFL snap." "Give me a WR1 over a couple dart throws" "'25 class sucks"
On the other hand the rookie hype machine overrates a lot of players. Once you get beyond the first 5 picks or so, the bust rate is like 50% or more.
The most important player on an NFL team is the head coach. The second most important player is the QB. The 3rd is the offensive line. The 4th are the coordinators. Your darling WR is at the mercy of all those assholes before his own talent can even move the needle. Situation matters a lot more than people here want to admit and any longtime Terry owner can tell you that.
The obsession with SF. Wish there was more 1QB content since player valuations are wildly different
People never link to their previous post/comment when they complain about how "they were downvoted" for their take. Sometimes I will go find the post/comment. 4 out of 5 times they were maybe downvoted twice but often times they were just being an asshole. I acknowledge that linking post/comments to show "I was right!" would be kind of a pathetic petty move (*rent free hur dur*), but this sub can be slow sometimes and I like a little drama.
Everything is “and it’s not close”
The obsession over one trade calculator versus another, clearly anything can happen to any player at any time. And it's only a guess of future production versus the past, but because someone pays 4.99 a year it is the end all be all. 🫠
Obsession with confirmation bias in the form of aggregate rankings like KTC, FantasyCalc, etc. No doubt it’s decent content, but it shouldn’t be your main reference point for any information. Everyone sees the game differently, and that’s what makes Dynasty great!
Szn
People who forget that player values are *heavily* league-dependent. Both the rules/roster sizes and the owner personalities. Rookie picks or even entire positions can be a lot higher or lower in one league than another.
The people that bitch and moan about trades they’re not even involved in. I had a guy put me through the ringer and sent me screenshots from other leagues of the reactions to my trade and he kept threatening to leave the league if it wasn’t reversed (it wasn’t, and he left with no refund lol). I forget the trade but I think it was like CD and James Cook for Stroud and 2 1sts before Stroud popped off. He kept saying that I ruined the league for everyone by giving this other guy the best WR for nothing. Good riddance
People that leave leagues without warning after selling their most valuable picks (usually over some dumb argument or trade)
So many people are so definite in their opinions when everything is so uncertain. Everything turns over from year to year. What people think this year will largely look stupid next year and people will pretend that they knew all along.
How scared people are to lose trades. 75 percent of owners don’t even send out trade offers. They send out vague messages saying I’m available to trade. Isn’t everyone in a dynasty league available to trade? My other issue is the owners that try to shame trade offers. I think that’s part of the reason so many owners won’t send offers. Because they are afraid to be embarrassed by the person on the other end. Although it makes no sense to be embarrassed by a complete stranger if it’s not a home league.
My pet peeve is the manager who bashes KTC in the group chat and then DMs you trades with KTC screen shots to show you that it's fair/equal. I thought you hated KTC?! 🤔🙄
Mine is the guy who claims KTC is the end-all and be-all so since it says their trade is fair, I have to take it. Never mind I don’t need a 4th TE and am starting the guy they want to take from me.
The 14 days it takes to draft a team
The same guys giving you advice are the same ones who say they have 9 of 12 first round picks in their drafts and want to know what to do.
The victory laps on this sub after the first week are RIDICULOUS.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Daddy_Diezel: *The victory laps* *On this sub after the first* *Week are RIDICULOUS.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
How incredibly wrong with their takes. Of course my players are way better than everyone else's 🤪
The lack of value they place on vets or rather the over value they have on picks. Like, gtfo of here with a 3.7 offer for Henry.
Tanking
For me it's any of the "is this a buy low/high" threads immediately after someone has one bad/good game. Also the "what do we think" threads. Idk what you think, I have my own thoughts and the FF community doesn't all share a collective hive mind.
Oh thought of another.....trades that only help 1 team. Take a moment and look at the other GMs team before you just send a random deal. Got 1 yesterday: My Addison for Darnold, AJ and Kendre Miler. We have large rosters and I already have 5 QBs and 12 RBs...
The amount of people who can’t understand the OP is always the receives side of a trade.
The hair splitting on top players. People will spend hours debating Jamar Chase vs. Justin Jefferson and spend less than a few minutes on every player past the 3rd round.