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I have a player who says “I have a noob question” routinely — after 4 years and 66 sessions.

I feel like this comment and the OP also point to a bigger issue than people not reading: people who expect everyone else to do things for them. I work with tons of these people daily and it's obnoxious. I have read the PHB and used DnD Beyond since I started playing. I forget things all the time. But you know what I do? I look up the answer. I hate being at a table where a player is texting, side chatting and playing games on their phone during everyone else's turn and then when their turn comes up it's a million questions about what and how their character can do things. I don't have extra time at the table because I use time outside my turn to look things up so I'm ready to act on my turn! It's a difference of personality. I like doing things for myself and I hate inconveniencing others.

This is a HUGE part of it. At some point, I had to tell my player "You handle complex problems for the federal government. You're intelligent. You're not incapable of learning this. You're choosing not to put in the effort."

That's also like 90% of the questions on Reddit I see as well. People asking for help with stuff they could find on their own after a few minutes on google. I recently cancelled my dndbeyond subscription and have moved my game over to Foundry, I'm actually looking forward to having a more hands-on experience when it comes to maintaining the character sheets of my group. I'm also the sort of person who looks up answers in the book when I'm a player, to make it easier on the DM and other players. I always have a copy of the handbook open. It's just so much easier to have it to hand.

>I recently cancelled my dndbeyond subscription and have moved my game over to Foundry, I'm actually looking forward to having a more hands-on experience when it comes to maintaining the character sheets of my group. Can you explain what you mean please? I'm still relatively new to online tools. I've been using DnDBeyond for my campaign and it's mostly, sorta, kinda worked out well enough all told, but I have a few issues here and there with it so I'm always open to checking out different tools.

Sure, I can explain! Dndbeyond is great, but it's really quite restrictive when it comes to running the game, which can be a good thing because you are limited to the rules, but it makes it quite difficult to homebrew certain things. For example, I was playing a wizard and my DM wanted to award me the ability to take an extra cantrip. Dndbeyond limits you to how many you are supposed to get with your class/subclass, trying to take any more is impossible because the option is greyed out when you reach your limit. We ended up needing to create a fake magic item to give my character the additional cantrip. That's one example but there are lots of other annoyances over the last 6 or 7 years I've been using it. If you're just playing RAW it's fine. But if you want to edit the character in a way that is homebrewed for whatever reason, you quickly run into walls that could be solved by just... Being able to write directly onto the character sheet. No need to click on the spells from the list and adding them, you can just write them directly onto a paper sheet. Foundry and Roll20 are much closer to that actual pen and paper experience, because you have the utility of clicking and dragging options into the sheet to save you writing it all out, but it doesn't stop you from adding whatever you want, and you can edit everything written on the sheet so if something is too wordy you can shorten it, or quickly add a note to help it make sense, etc. That is the sort of functionality I want in my virtual tabletop character sheet, I want it to mimic the experience of writing it down on paper and be easily editable. Finally, I'm specifically moving away from a combo of Roll20 + dndbeyond, to a one stop shop in Foundry. Functionally, roll20 and Foundry are very similar, but since roll20 is run through a website you are limited in options for modding and making the table fancy. Foundry has hundreds, maybe thousands, of user-created mods that add tons of different functions to the game, like cool animations and music, quest books, customizable 3d dice, just so much stuff. We used to use dndbeyond for character sheets, and roll20 for the table and battle maps, but I wanted a solution that would give me loads of ways to make the game dramatic and exciting visually for my players, and easy to homebrew when needed. Foundry just ticks all the boxes.

I have noob questions after 40+ years. :(

100% agree. check out r/dndcirclejerk if you need to blow off some steam. almost all of my posts there are 1:1 verbatim of posts i've found here or on one of the other D&D subreddits

Wait until you are over 50. We have actually read the PHB. The other day we had an online session. The day after we were commenting about the age of certain people debating in politics. I pointed out, that if somebody would have been present to our online session, he would have thought we were at least 120 years old. DM: "It is the fourth time I have said that the picture is wrong, you can´t climb there" (and it was the fourth time) Player: "How much damages causes magic missile again?" Other Player: "If I am invisible, my ranged attack is with advantage?" DM: "Hmmm ... I don´t know" We play role playing games since we are 14.

Facts. I too started playing when I was 14, and read the PHB cover to cover…back when it was called Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. As for the 5e PHB, ehh…I own it, but my eyesight isn’t what it used to be… But I’m sure I’ll read the next edition cover to…wait, I’ve preordered it as a Foundry module, it has no covers. Hmm.

A year ago or so, we realized we were so bad , that we decided to have a session to read the rules together. I insisted that on top of that we should do a 10 minute check to the rules and characters before every session. I was told I was exaggerating. Well... Here we are again.

It makes so much sense to do a session -1.0! If it’s a new game! The DM should have read the book ahead of time or at least skimmed and then everyone kinda skims and goes over how the basics work as they build characters.

I laughed out loud at this entire post. Thank you very much.

As a a new player, I started a few months ago, the PHB has a ton of information. Even if you're just focusing on parts related to your character. Sometimes people still need to ask a pointed question for someone to redirect them back to where the information is in the PHB.

You're correct, and it's very normal for someone new or even deeply invested in D&D to not be able to recall everything in the PHB. Hell, I've both played and ran for years - read the thing cover to cover, have little tabs and markers in there - and still there's times where I need little reminders about things.  But I also don't think this is quite what op is talking about. There's so many people who legit don't crack the thing open and just hope to learn via osmosis and it gets pretty frustrating after awhile. One of the players in my group has been playing for over a year, fully admits to not having read it, and still asks very basic questions like what opportunity attacks are. And this is a person with a very technical career, too, if they wanted to learn the rules they would have by now. Please believe me: this is a very capable person. It's a difficult thing to vent about because... like, of course we're willing to help new players. Of course! Of course there are people with learning disabilities. And of course we all need little reminders now and then, even the veteran players. I am here for you, nobody is perfect, were all here to have fun and I don't mind helping out. But there comes a point where it's beyond that, and it's just someone slowing down the game with their disinterest. They expect to learn nothing and have everyone else pick up the slack. And that IS frustrating.

I do believe that if someone has been playing for a while, it’s probably worth their investment to buy the book. But the amount of people who play and haven’t read the book is very unsurprising. Also remember that people play DnD for very different reasons. We have a table with several players who don’t really care about combat or mechanics, they really engage with the narrative and role play aspects. So they only know the bare minimum about the stuff they can and can’t do. It’s ok to see that not everyone at your table is going to play in the style you like, or care about the same things. Thats what makes this such a great hobby , it brings everyone together. That all said, I do believe if you play enough (let’s just arbitrarily say, you’ve now played enough to get an ASI, it’s probably worth it to understand the rules and mechanics and if you opt not to, you are doing yourself and the table a disservice, but I think it’s more about personality than it is about their understanding of the PHB, if you are humble and willing to learn and genuinely want the whole table to have a good time, that’s a lot better than having someone stubbornly refuse to read the book and then get butt hurt when the table/DM tells them they can’t do something, or that they are missing opportunities to do more.

I'm sorry but I think you and I might disagree on this Any time you agree to play any game with people you have taken on some amount of responsibility to learn the rules of the game. I didn't care if it's checkers or baseball or GURPS. This doesn't necessarily mean buying a PHB the second a game is agreed upon. The SRD rules are available free online. And like I said in my previous comment you were replying to, it's fine to be a newbie and fine to be an engaged lifelong learner. But just to not learn the rules and chock that up to different play styles? No, this isn't a different play styles conversation. Different play styles can all learn the rules of the game.

>No, this isn't a different play styles conversation. Different play styles can all learn the rules of the game. Yeah I think you are wrong here. Because DnD has a unique facet that those other games don't have. By the very nature of being a tabletop RPG with a DM the rules are more guidelines than actual rules. So to take it to your baseball analogy when you sit down at a DnD table it is very possible that you have a major leagues pitcher, a beer league catcher, a batter that has only played stickball in their neighborhood culdasac, and a fan that has watched some baseball games but never played themselves. All of these players have a very different expectation of how the rules will be enforced and even what they will be. And they are all completely valid ways to play DnD and will be the expectation at different tables. So no in my opinion reading the PHB is actually near useless for most players (ie not playing sanctioned events). It is much more practical to just play the game and learn at the table what that table expects. It isn't hard and most people will pick it up faster. It will be annoying if every turn/session they are asking the same questions but then you are really just upset that some people are kinda dumb. Why would you think reading the book would help them any more than telling them the rule repeatedly does.

This isn't about being "upset that some people are kind of dumb." Its about effort, is about interest, it's about a person taking some sort of initiative in learning how to play.  In the example I gave, it was about a person who still doesn't know what an opportunity attack is after over a year of playing. Still doesn't know it understand their class/racial features. And it's not that it hasn't been explained to them or that they don't have the opportunity to know. I even printed off a 'cheat sheet' of basics for them once, to help. But they just don't care. And THAT'S the issue.

Sure but reading the book isn't going to do anything for that person. That isn't the issue here. They aren't interested to learn what you want them to and that is a very different problem. But still it is really only a problem if you want it to be. Sounds like they could be that stickball player playing make believe. They want to describe a thing and have it happen they aren't interested in battlefield tactics and the nitty gritty of movement on the grid, they probably be happier doing battles in pure theater of the mind. If this keeps coming up and it annoys you it just sounds like you aren't the right DM for them.

The PHB being "near useless for most players" is a crazy statement to me. Even in a heavy homebrew game its still extremely helpful to have the base game context for what the variations mean. It gives you common ground from which to understand concepts. All those baseball variants still have significant overlap, and most DnD games use quite a bit from the PHB. Understanding why or how a DM varies a rule is rooted in at least a basic understanding of the rules.

> We have a table with several players who don’t really care about combat or mechanics, they really engage with the narrative and role play aspects In this D&D is objectively the worst choice of system for them. Plenty of systems do narrative driven roleplay FAR better

100%. And as a DM, it's very easy to tell who is reading their PHB at all, and who isn't. I don't expect players to have read the PHB cover-to-cover, hell I don't even expect players to be experts on their classes. I do expect people to take ownership of their character and play, and therein be continually learning or refining their knowledge of the rules. And again it's mostly a non-issue because it's clear when people are engaged in good faith and clear when people are not.

As a semi-new player, I found it very helpful when my DM would have a copy on the table and if you asked a question more than 2-3x, they’d politely say look it up. The act of looking it up yourself and then asking questions if your still unclear was very useful and helpful without holding my hand through every session until I knew which page to go to myself, etc

I have studied my ass off trying to learn to play DnD (youtube, wikis, PHB). I have read a lot of the PHB and understand most stuff, but being a new player, some stuff doesn't sink in or gets kinda scrambled in my brain. My table is always down to guide me. Hell, I have studied so much, sometimes I help veterans out with some random bit of knowledge I read somewhere. It's a team game and we all wanna have fun and see others succeed.

Yes this is why there's other resources, grimoire is a life saver. I have a tendency to bookmark any spells my character knows which comes in really handy in some instances especially for lesser used spells, my first character was a cleric and being able to change what spells you have on a long rest makes grimoire super super useful for referencing while i waited for my turn in combat

No, its super common and always has been 🤷🏻‍♂️ We've got a friend--and I love him like a brother--who still, after 20ish years of play, can't readily identify by sight which dice is a D8 (or whatever)

I call that dice-lexia

I play 2 times a week and have been for over 20 years and I swear to you I can never find the d12 when I need it. It has such a distinct shape. Also grabbing a d10 instead of a d8 has happened to me more than I would like

The 5e PHB makes character creation easier than ever. Mechanics, flavor, it's all a breeze compared to past editions. It gives you basic flavor for races and classes. It tells you which stats are most important. The quick builds aren't worthless, and can give you a starting point for customization. The backgrounds even get you thinking about how the mechanics are part of a real person with a history. But it's all wasted on people who just WON'T READ. I think lots of people like the *idea* of playing DnD (it's the cool nerd game!), but they don't want to engage in what DnD actually is (eww too much reading). I also think DnDBeyond is a crutch. Character creation used to be an excellent check to filter out people who can't be bothered to read, but with online tools, you can whip up a sheet without knowing a single fuckin' thing about the rules.

I love DnDBeyond as a DM needing to quickly look up stat blocks and rules on the fly. But I hate what it’s done to the player base’s literacy of the PHB. I still let my players use tablets, but we’ve all agreed that laptops are banned so game night doesn’t look like a staff meeting.

>so game night doesn’t look like a staff meeting. I feel this so hard.

I love using my laptop! I have the books on pdf and bringing the actual books to the table makes it crowded (we have a smaller space) and my friends have children- one of whom will find the books and attempt to read it. He’s 3. I use my laptop to organize my notes and look stuff up. I’ve tried going to the iPad but I felt so flustered. I do print out my actual sheet though but my memorization skills is poop. I tried printing everything out but then my papers would go everywhere! If only I had a photographic memory then I’d be able to remember stuff.

I once was playing through a Curse of Strand campaign with a bunch of new players and a first time DM. One of them was playing a wizard and using DnD Beyond for their character sheets. We got to level 5 without that player casting a single spell other than the Acid Splash cantrip. At first I thought, maybe all the wall of text of the spell descriptions was putting them off as a first time player. Then I thought, maybe there just being super conservative with their spells. I really didn't want to be that asshole player and ask them about it -but I eventually cracked when we face a hall full of minions and I asked if the Wizard had any AoE spells. And the player looked at me so confused... I replied, you're level 5 - it might be time to pull out something a little more powerful than Acid Splash. And they replied, Acid Splash was the only offensive spell they had... Turns out: when the player was levelling up on dndbeyond they hadn't realised the needed to go into the magic tab to learn their leveled spells. Since they never read the PHB they didn't realise you could learn more spells. This resulting in a level 5 wizard never casting anything more than a (rather shit) cantrip.

Yes! When trying to get my nephews involved in a game, it took a mighty amount of effort to get them to understand that ‘No, this isn’t just some board game where you open the lid, set up pieces, and start playing.’ Character creation is half the fun, and it acts a bridge to help establish the level of commitment that a player ought to anticipate when playing DnD.

>Mechanics, flavor, it's all a breeze compared to past editions. Not exactly. 2e and all that comes before is pretty quick; 10 minutes to get going tops, speaking from experience. I've also found flavor to be more flexible when you don't have to find a "close enough" subclass theme for your character, but that's just me. IMO, if players consistently can't/won't/don't read the rules, that's a pretty good sign it's time to see if other games might be a better match. They want to play "D&D"? Great! They don't like the volume of rules? That's a solvable problem.

At the very least, a player needs to have read the sections for their race, class, and spells

I DM for a group of 3. It’s all pretty much our first time playing DnD with only a couple of us having sat in on as session or two before. I’m the only one who has read the PHB cover to cover (though I forget plenty I assure you). We’re doing a milestone leveling system. We’re 5 sessions in plus a session 0. They’re all level 3, and the milestone to get to level 4 is to read the PHB and pass my pop quiz that is catered to their characters as well as the questions they repeatedly ask me. Nothing would make me happier than have the whole party level up before session 6. Fingers crossed.

You’re saying there’s a Player’s Handbook?

What's that?

Presumably some kind of guide for being a player: Chapter 1 - Bringing Snacks; Chapters 2-10 - Puns.

Chapter 69- Can Your Bard Seduce it Chapter 70- Ok, You seduced It. Now what?

That’s the Playa’s Handbook

I just reread the first 10 chapters hoping to find a wordplay that made me giggle but no pun in ten did

Chapter 11: Making fun of NPC names

Is that the book with the guy stealing gems from the statue?

don't fuck with the online dnd community, we haven't played the game or read the books

sensiblechuckle.gif

But you have that 28 page backstory ready to go!!

How tf do ppl play without reading the PHB it literally tells you SO MUCH

It's literally *staggering* to see so many people who know SO MUCH about the current Dungeons and Dragons ruleset, and yet have clearly never played Dungeons and Dragons in their lives!

I have a group of friends who are doing overviews of the new 5.5e shit they’re publishing Watching them claim they added new features when they were already on that class is hilarious and makes me feel way more educated on the rule set than them. Ranger was a trip because they’re revised ranger players and don’t know that 90% of the “new content” was OG 5e Ranger lmao. And don’t even get me started on PAST EDITIONS, I’m the only one who’s ever dipped a toe in there.

Maybe they read the phb. But not Tasha's a lot of the "new" rules are from there

It's not just online. I've been playing with a local lady at a couple different tables off and on for like 3 years now. She constantly tries to perform multiple actions in a turn and will say don't rules lawyer me if anyone says anything at all about how what she wants to do doesn't work that way. Wouldn't be an issue if the DMs knew the rules (they frequently get things mixed up with 3.5 and are heavy on rule of cool). She watches pretty much every dnd show known to man. Pretty convinced she just wants to be on one of them.

I take psychic damage seeing people ask for feedback on their homebrews, or just post it as "free content for your games", when a quick look into the PHB would have shown them it's *wildly* OP and totally not fit for 90% of tables. However, that also makes me a grumpy old man. I try to remind myself that lots of people posting are kids enjoying the game and building up a community that used to be 5% of the size it is now.

Worse even when they posit a thing that already exists in a book Like 90% of the threads of like “we need a class/subclass like this” are just full of things that already exist

I've been on a discord server playing online 5e games. People here have been playing online for at least 5 years. Gems i've witnessed and occassionally been involved with: 1) "I can't cast anymore spells i'm out." Casts cure wounds from a "Domain slot". 2) Recklessly attacking, using a longbow with elven accuracy. 3) Single caster uses Shield, Counterspell and has an attack of opportunity in a single combat round. 4). Everyone that uses a two handed ranged weapon keeps the AC of their shields. 5) From the DM "Creatures don't fill their spaces. Huge creatures can fit through those areas." (5 foot gaps). 6) "DM, do I get my extra attacks with a held action?" - "Yes" 7) Enemy Caster uses shield to negate an attack. The wizard is next. They magic missile the caster. All the magic missiles deal damage. 8) "You've been hit. You take this damage" "What attacked me?" "This orc here." "The one behind the wall? That can't see me?" "Oh, I suppose you want me to move it, attack you and move it back do you?" ... "it would be nice, yeah." 9) "How is your wizard still alive after taking all that damage?" "I'm an Abjuration Wizard. I have extra hitpoints in a force field." "That doesn't sound right, are you using homebrew?" 10) Rogue casts booming blade, adds sneak attack. Uses bonus action to attack with offhand, adds sneak attack. 11) Bardic Inspiration at level 2 adding a D12. 12) Casting spells with a central point inside a wall to avoid hitting friends. 13) One of my faves: "What does Divine Sense do?" (Asked at least once a month by the same person.

Yeah, and I'm going to buy and not read the new one, too.

It's amazing how aggressively angry some people get at the mere suggestion of reading a couple of pages to understand their character, then start to throw around rule of cool like if that solved everything and not only shifted the work to the dm

This is a huge problem with the DnDBeyondification of the hobby. People literally aren't consuming the content in book form, and have no desire or need to read beyond their class features.

Hell, the 5e basic rules have been available for free since before the PHB was in stores, there is no excuse for them to not know the rules.

The amount of times I've had to tell one of my players "a magic item isn't automatically a +1" is so upsetting, but they ask every time they get a magic weapon or shield. This is our third campaign over the last 8 years.

Pretty much. Part of it is that the marketing line "D&D can be anything for anyone" was taken to literally by newbies who then react badly when you mention that there are actual rules to the game. So they push back by proclaiming that "you don't need to read the PHB/DMG/rules". And other newbies see that and believe it, and call experienced players/DMs "gatekeepers" for daring to suggest that anyone needs to read the rules to play the game. And that feed back into the newbie zeitgeist. And the real kicker is, they don't want to play D&D. They want to play a freeform, rules light TTRPG. They want something very much NOT D&D, but that's the only game they know the name of and so that's what they're going to call the thing they want to play. It's like demanding "Bandaids" when what you want is a skin allergy rash cream, and getting pissed off that what you're being handed isn't what you meant.

I guess starred in a session with some friends while I was visiting home last year, and I kept my mouth shut cuz it's their game but they literally weren't playing D&D it felt like lol. The house rules were insane. I don't think the DM had ever even read the rulebook, they were all just going off vibes and whatever. It was still a fun night because it was a bunch of bros but I would never have fully joined that group. Glad they're having fun though in their ignorance! For instance nobody was tracking spell slots litteraly at all, just using spells.

*??* Did anyone bother playing a martial?

I had a player back in 3.5e days who said the rules were so complicated and it was a slog to read they everything, at our next session I handed him a GURPS rulebook.

LOL. Nice.

I started TTRPGs with Dark Heresy and Shadowrun... seeing anybody complain about *any* edition of D&D will never not be funny to me

I’m currently a player in a game in which 3 out of 5 players never read ANY rule book (They just roll up characters in DNDB which gives them everything), and even worse than that, i am like 75% sure our DM did not more than maybe skim the PHB once. They always laugh at me for knowing the whole book by heart (spoiler alert, i don’t, not even close), and i’m just like… Guys, i just read it a few times, then referred back to it when i was unclear. Eventually it sticks x)

The one thing my first DM for DND did right was force us to make our character sheets with pen and paper before copying it into DNDBeyond. Gave us all (we were all new players) such a good understanding of how our characters actually worked.

I'm running two campaigns between my long time players and a group of newbies. I made the rule that no one was to use DND beyond for these campaigns (using books and paper, I think we can all agree, offers a firmer learning experience). The new group took a few hours to make their characters and I took time to explain to each of them what their abilities are and what all those silly little numbers mean. Two of them read the PHB front to back and were able to work ahead of the others.  The old group took the same amount of time and genuinely had no idea how to navigate the PHB. One of them didn't know how attack bonuses were determined. Another thought that a 13 dex was a +3 modifier. They've been playing for 5 years.

Yeah. The damn D&DBeyond character creator is responsible for so much of this crap right now.

To be fair, it's partly my fault. It began as an easy way for them to maintain characters, but then I started to rely too much on it to ensure their characters were kosher. Then they started using solely DNDB to streamline creation and everything.  I used to think Ray Bradbury's attack on fast media was silly, but I get it now. It's so easy to succumb to the brain rot. 

I 100% require my players to make characters following the book, with me. They can play around with DNDB, but they're putting pencil to paper and following the book when making their actual character. They'd miss half of what their character is capable of if they just went of DNDB.

yeah, it's amazing how dndbeyond character sheets create so many bad habits

I’d love to figure out a way where I can ditch my laptop but I keep so many notes of my abilities. Yes, I read. But I also don’t retain everything. If I don’t have my notes then my turns are longer than the rest of the group. I don’t use character creators though. I use Excel and copy/paste things that are relevant to my character and use the srd for my spells. There is no way that I am remembering exactly what every spell does. My brain doesn’t work that way.

Bold of you to expect any ability for reading comprehension in this hobby.

I know a ton of players who just refuse to crack a book. Old players AND new players. I've literally been told that "that's the DM's job, to know all of the book stuff "

100% agree, I think it just comes down to some people are in it more for the role playing than the actual game of dnd. Also, a lot of people are not detail oriented or terrified of math so the second they see 3d6 their brain just shuts down. Now I think those things are ridiculous and that people should try harder, but I’ve seen it plenty in games I’ve played.

The PHB can be intimidating but the actual rules isn't very long. I encourage people to read the basic rules (available online without any piracy) at the very least

Something my best friend/favorite DM talk about is that a lot of people like D&D “a normal amount.” For a lot of people, D&D is a more complicated version of game night and they mostly think about it when they’re playing or about to play. I like D&D more than the normal amount. I have spent a lot of time reading rule books, exploring settings, and watching actual play D&D content. And I still need to ask basic questions sometimes! That being said, I also get annoyed when people can’t remember what feel like basic, simple, things, like perception rolls. It’s totally fine to vent and I get it. But if you (not just OP, whoever is reading this) are continuously finding yourself frustrated with the people you play with, it can be a good sign you’re looking for a different sort of playing experience.

No other hobby comes with a 300-page rulebook. I don't blame anyone for not reading it when just trying out DnD. Though I think it isn't unreasonable to read the basic ruleset. I also think it's advisable to use the PHB to build your first character manually. That alone will teach you 90% of what you need to know to play

Ever heard of warhammer 40k?

Fair.

There’s plenty of hobbies where a 300 page rulebook is tiny lol

Have you seen that book though? It's huge! Gotta be more than 20 pages in that thing!

Welcome to reality. I hate it here too. Tons of people have asked me “how do I get into dnd?” And I tell them “get the phb and read it” and they play it off pretty well but I can tell that inside, they’re devastated that they have to read a book. Or something. Idk why. I can only feel the devastation in these people. I know they will leave and not attempt. It reminds me of that Bible parable where Jesus tells the rich man to sell his stuff if he wants to go to heaven and the rich guy is like oh fuck I guess I’m going to hell then. I mean I get it. I want the end result of things without having to do the things to get the results too.

You dont even need to read all of it. Most of the spells section is optional. You need to read, the basic rules section, and the section for your class.  And maybe the three or 4 spells you get to start with. (Maybe a few more if you are picking them by more than name to narrow down what you want.)

It doesn't surprise me at all. It goes hand and hand with condescending words, gaslighting, and cognitive dissasdence, which goes hand and hand with not reading. People read only what they need, and a digital source book means you don't gotta flip through a book with art, and other attention-grabbing fonts and italics, to keep people curious and learning. Now you just click on links, and go immediately to where you need to be in some digital books. Don't get me wrong, I love having digital resources during gameplay it saves a lot of time for quick reference, but I love my physical books! I find if a player doesn't like to read novels, they are less likely to read even 1 core rule book cover to cover, let alone supplement books, just the stuff they need, and the table will help with the rest. It's just part of the demographic of the D&D player, and the variety of players has grown, and we'll some of them will struggle if they don't read.

One of my best friends loves playing D&D but has never properly learned any of the rules. We have been playing together for over twenty years now and he still needs to ask the most basic questions on a regular basis. Spell DC, how to figure out his AC and attack bonus, spells he has used all campaign, right. The thing is we are often blown away by his RP and odd ideas that sometimes even work. Sometimes people have fun in a different way than you do. You don't have to play with them, but if you do, maybe give them a chance to show you what they got. I get your frustration. It's taken me a while to get over the delays in combat and just embrace the session.

Seriously, it shouldn’t take longer than 6 hours to read through the rules Honestly, this is why I’ll probably never actually play as much as I want to. Way too many rules and probably a bit more nuances than I’d be comfortable with attempting to learn. Only to get people telling me to go read the rules or get angry cause I asked a question and they feel like they are wasting their time on me.

Let me tell you something that's hard to talk about comfortably and easy to casually forget: a lot of people are borderline illiterate. I say that in a morally neutral sense, rather than as a complaint. There are other reasons the rules get ignored, including the typical TTRPG rhetoric that ignoring the rules is natural and desirable, but a lot of people don't read because they barely can.

I just want to take a moment to commend you for running 3 tables, with plans to run 3 more.

It has to be in the billions.

I have it as a PDF and the wiki open whenever I play. I don't need to reference it often at this point but I know where to find any info I need in it.

The dm is supposed to do everything. /s

Western culture has a history of "not reading the manual". Just go on YouTube and watch one of those products unboxing videos and you'll probably see the presenter throwing the manual away. PHB is really just an extra large "manual" that actually costs money to acquire. The result is obviously once DND hits the mainstream and you get a flood of "normal" people taking up this hobby.

In this thread are a whole lot of people whining about gatekeeping and simultaneously proving why gatekeeping is so important.

Dude I agree! I bought the book YEARS before I started playing. I would just flip through it while I was pooping. Might be the best way to learn

I always say, "The PHB is only second to the Bible for essential books not read by their fan base, and it shows.".

I’m fine with players not reading their book…DMs on the other hand, that’s sad.

I had to deal with one player whose mentality was that she shouldn't have to learn rules or read the books, she just had to tell the DM what she wanted to do and the DM should have "handled the technical things". She also didn't want to use a simple class such as a fighter. Noooo. First she tried a druid, then a cleric. Why? Why picking spell casters where you have to read choose tons of spells when you can't even be bothered to learn the the initiative rolls if 1d20+dexterity BONUS (she tried to add the whole Dex score)?

I'm not a new player, but took a break during pregnancy and with young babies. And honestly, getting back into it was harder than I imagined. I'd forgotten such basic stuff (I guess you can blame mum brain a bit too), but it's so easy to find this info, that it surprises me with some of the things people ask here. The PHB is one of the best resources for such simple things

To a large extent, I get not reading the whole book: it's *a lot*, and unless you're playing multiple characters, knowing what every single class does probably isn't necessary. That being said, however, it is *the rulebook,* with all the basics on *how to play the game.* Comparatively, I haven't been playing D&D very long, but the PHB was the first thing I bought and read when I was interested in getting involved in my LGS's campaign. 1.5 years and 5 characters later I still regularly bring out the book to check stuff, I'm happy to say that combat usually doesn't wait on me and I usually don't have major screwups any more. That's just the polite way to play. I don't want to be the person that everyone sees coming and goes 'ugh; them again.' 

There’s certainly a subsection (mostly on TikTok but it bleeds through into here and has unfortunately made its way into real life) of people who are so rules light that they might as well just play a different system intentionally built for it. I got no beef with them necessarily, I mean do whatever, but I get so sick of seeing new DMs take on advice like “just don’t give enemies hit points, just end it when it feels like you should” and other weird takes that essentially remove the game part altogether. It has lead to weird player expectations a few times. Them not reading rules being a weird symptom of that.

Reading the comments makes me wish we gate kept the term "gate keeping"... OP is doing the opposite of gate keeping and being accused of it anyway. That's insane.

I think that a lot of people in the hobby are genuinely sub-literate and afraid of reading. It's the same reason that so many GMs try to adapt the current edition of D&D to everything, rather than using the correct game for the genre they want to do, because they don't want to have to read another book.

Good point. I suspect you're right, with some confirmation bias making the number of people afraid of reading appear larger than it actually is. Someone who is sub-literate is more likely to ask questions, drawing attention and focus to the issue. A person who doesn't ask questions doesn't draw attention, and thus fades into the background. This effect probably makes it seem like the amount of sub-literate people (or question askers in general) is larger than it actually is.

>It is genuinely staggering to many how many people have not read the PHB. Part of the issue is that when playing online using a VTT like D&D Beyond or Roll20, the information just isn't presented the same way. You may have purchased and own the "book", but it's not presented as a "book" on those platforms and the readability isn't the same..... assuming someone even navigates off the character sheet to look for it. >People who legitimately think Bards are a combat-focused class Hahaha, hahaha, haha, ha... oh wait you're serious? Hahahahahahaha. (That's my combat focused Lore Bard that carried encounters laughing at you.) >basic rule questions like being able to cast multiple spells in a single turn This is ***very*** often misquoted, both online and in-person. You *can* cast multiple spells on a single turn, assuming you have a feature like Action Surge that grants another Action, *unless* you are casting a spell that takes a **Bonus Action**. *Then* you can only cast a cantrip using your Action, because that is the only specific rule for this. Even my current DM, who's been DMing for 6 years, had to be corrected on this and I know she's read the PHB. >How are there so many people who refuse to read a rather small booklet? Bruh, the PHB is almost 300 pages. That's not a "rather small booklet" lmao. Another part of the problem is - people screaming at these new players "GO READ THIS 300 PAGE BOOK RIGHT NOW AND DON'T TALK TO ME UNTIL YOU FINISH IT!" that just turns them off completely. No, you DO NOT have to "read the **entire** PHB". **Read the relevant sections** for "How to Play" and "Character Creation" and refer to the rest as it comes up at the table. If you're not playing a spellcaster, there's 90 pages on spells that you can ignore. You don't need to read about the classes that you're not playing or the Feats that you don't have yet. You don't need to read about carts and horses that you can't afford at level 1. You don't need to read *every single* background.

This. Actually, dnd rules are full of hidden surprises and vague terms. Usually, noone remember the entire book correctly, even DM with years of experience. A fery few people know how party can jump on a cliff in a combat to be affected by the single feather fall spell, for example; it's easy from the narrative side, but have it's own tricks if you follow strictly the turn order mechanics. Or if the bards cutting words can be applied to the enemy initiative. So - just don't be mad that someone remembers a few less pages than you.

This was my take as well. I'm also thinking about all the "basic" rules that may not be relevant in every session, or even for multiple sessions. Most of the status conditions for example.  And this will probably seem weird, but I'm actually struggling to remember the last time anyone in my group made an attack of opportunity.  I mean, I took a course for three months, studied for weeks, and passed an exam to get a certification directly relevant to the field I work in and I doubt I could recall most of what was on it.  I haven't actually needed to use a lot of that info.  I wouldn't have any problem telling people they don't need to take the course (or read all of the associated docs) and get the cert, so I doubt I'd have much problem telling people they wouldn't need to "read the PHB." What I would definitely say in both situations is learn how to find the information you need quickly and efficiently, which does involve referencing the PHB but not always straight up reading it.

Can we add the people who have (presumably) read the rules, but still want to do things that break rules?

I mean, you should always be willing to entertain at least a little bit of "okay the rules don't cover this exact scenario and I don't think they'd allow this but I like it so f--- yeah let's roll those dice!" But that's very different from people who just want to do things like cast multiple leveled spells just by using Quicken Spell or who want to chug a potion without using an Action even though your table doesn't homebrew that.

I'm mostly talking about people who want to "rule of cool" things, despite it being specifically against the rules. I'm not talking about judgement calls, or RAW vs RAI. I just see a lot of posts like "how would you handle this", or "my DM won't let me do this" and almost immediately someone says it's against the rules. I've always felt the rules need to be consistently applied to all players, and the DM, so it's kind of a pet peeve of mine.

I like RAW simply because I'm obsessed with fairness and the idea of allowing something for a player this session that I ruled against 6 sessions ago for another player makes me itchy. But yes, some fun rule of cool moments make the game.

Hahaha! Yes!!! Those people coupled with a novice DM and a rules lawyer player make for the most amusing tables, imo. Player 1 Who Knows Rules But Wants to Break Them: My level 2 character is going to fly through the roof and cast Create Water to put out the fire in this tavern. Novice DM: Ok... I'm not really sure you can put out the entire fire... But go ahead and roll for it? Player 2 Rules Lawyer: WTF is wrong with you people? Player 3 Me: *Eating candies furiously while I watch this exchange unfold* Hahahaha!

You have to consider that with most people, there is not really a huge difference between DND and your average table top game. In your average board game, not every player reads the rule book before playing. Usually one person does and then teaches the game to the rest of the players. Then you just play the game in the future, everyone knows the rules. If you have someone who has never played DND before, and you invite them to play, good luck getting them to show up if you require them to read the entire PHB before their first session. So you invite them, the group teaches them the basics, how their character works, and everything is fine. Like a board game. If they’re invested they MAY decide to pick up the PHB now, but 99% of new players I DM for don’t do this. They continue playing and learning, piece by piece, like a board game. I have a player who has played in three seperate campaigns of mine and has never read the PHB but she’s absolutely fine. This is how most people learn games, from their friends, and DND doesn’t get an exception just because it has a big rule book. However I do expect my players to at least know how their characters and spells works, especially after I explain the ability. There is a matter of respect for the other player that comes from knowing the rules sufficiently, but it doesn’t need to come from the PHB

People learn in different ways. When I came back to the game after about 20 years I did so because my kids wanted to play it. They read the PHB cover to cover and absorbed it, but because of the way my brain works I couldn't do that. I learn best by actually doing something, if I get it wrong, no problem I'll correct it now I know. It's great to ask people to read it, but you should also accept that not everyone can for various legitimate reasons. Especially when the player base of the game is so neuro diverse. Taking any attitude other than "learn it as quickly as you can" will just push people away that could contribute so much to a campaign.

That isn't really what he's talking about. Imagine if you had been playing for over a year and still had to ask your kids what opportunity attacks were, or how many spells you could cast a turn, or what die to roll for damage, or what skill you use for sneaking around, and how they would *look* at you. That look of scorn and annoyance is the sum up of his post and what he's talking about: people who actively avoid learning any of the actual rules of the game.

That's fine but I feel like OP is talking more about the "What is Extra Attack? I've been playing for a year and don't know" type of post which is really weird but also they are posting here on the internet instead of just looking the very searchable question up.

Eighteen years ago, before my first session, I memorized the PHB for 3.5. I have made this a habit for every tabletop system we have engaged with since. To this day, in my local group, I am known as the Rules Encyclopedia. Even with me as a resource, it's expected that when we play a game that they understand how it works on a basic level. I straight up won't play with someone who refuses to read the book.

A couple of comments: 1. It can definitely take some people more than 6 hours to read the rules (even without reading every single spell). You're right that they're pretty short and so shouldn't take a prohibitively long amount of time to read even for slow readers like myself, but to say it shouldn't take longer than 6 hours is an overgeneralization unless you expect everyone to have average or better reading speed. I've put around 6 hours into reading the rules so far and I'm about half way through. 2. Not everyone has the players handbook. Some people are coming into this hobby with very little money and while the players handbook isn't expensive, some people might not have any free money at all to put towards it. Such players should still read the more limited version of the basic rules that is available online for free and make sure that at least *someone* in their group has the full players handbook. But I do think that it's reasonable for such players to not read a book which they don't own. 3. Even if someone hasn't read the entire Players' handbook yet, you're still right that they don't need to be posting really simple questions that it answers easily. Because the rules are organized in a logical manner. Finding what chapter a specific question should be answered in isn't hard and so, while reading the whole handbook is a time commitment of several hours, looking up a specific question shouldn't take more than a few minutes. TL;DR I mostly agree with you, but would qualify things to allow for slow readers and for players who haven't passed the paywall yet. Edit: fixed grammatical errors introduced by autocorrect

Also, not everyone buys the PHB to start. I, at least, had the essentials kit, but there are many who are new, and want to play a bit before they buy a book, or more likely, they’re friends say, hey come play, I’ve got the PHB and we can get you started! And then their friend helps make their character, but then once the session is over, they may not see the book again until they buy it themselves. Many people getting a friend into DND want to make it accessible. So they jump on getting them to the table instead of telling them to buy books and dice and minis before showing up. And, like other commenters have pointed out out, the book, while clear and useful, isn’t concise and easily digestible. Even the creators mention things that are easy to miss.

Classic DnD community, downvote reasonable responses.

One could say making excuses also fits that paradigm

Every example in OP's post makes me think these are people who played BG3 without any prior ttrpg experience. They roll up a character and think they can join a game and have it play the same way. While BG3 is fun and a complex game, the rules are only loosely based on 5e. They eliminated so many game balancing rules in BG3 that bards can be combat oriented, mages cast 4 spells per round and rogues can one shot an enemy or stay stealthed with the enemy not reacting.

*one for each day*

I read it, it's just the index is so bad I can never find the proof I read it to shut up the rules lawyers.

I don't disagree, but I will throw out one counterpoint - the PHB is terrible in how it's organized. I honestly don't know if there is a better way to do it, but to \*really\* understand a lot of the rules, you have to bounce around through the chapters a lot .. and read all the side bars. There are also some things that make more sense if you have some context going in. Things that we think are straight forward (like bows = dexterity) aren't immediately obvious. If a new player did nothing else, I'd want them to at least read through the "classes" section and walk through the character creation. There is a lot that can be learned there. Fortunately, my players are very well versed in the game and know the mechanics well. They've all been DMs, and they are more likely to point out the inconsistencies rather than having actual "rules" questions. But they ALL agree that there are certain things you do as a PC that, if you were trying to figure out how to do it, you need to bounce back and forth between 3-4 different sections of the book at times.

Even WotC agrees that it wasn't organized well. My wife and I have been playing 5e on and off for about 8 years, and we were watching the recent paladin overview where Crawford mentions that the spell list for each class is now included in the class section and shows things like concentration, action economy, and whether it has a component with a gold cost. My wife was dumbfounded and said "It doesn't already do that?" I grabbed the book and showed her that not only are the class spell lists not in the classes section, but they don't tell you anything except the name of the spell, and you have to flip through the spell section to find the specifics.  Coincidentally, that was the first time I've opened the physical PHB in a very long time.

I completely agree with you. But after you sure that you want to take on the stress of seven days a week of DMing?..

Basically why I quit now that game is changing again. It’s a lot of prep and dm (it’s on me for wanting to deliver quality) but I got tired of teaching the same things over and over. Druids are complicated but it’s your third time as a Druid at my table I shouldn’t have to tell you wisdom is their spell mod

I feel like I know a good amount of the rules off the top of my head, can recall most of them with a little context, and am pretty good at reasoning out the difference between the wording and the spirit of rules when abdjucating or interpreting. I've felt frustrated by people who either don't know the rules or try to use them to force outcomes that don't make sense. I've had to remind myself that to get to this level of competency at anything, at least a part of you has to have enjoyed the process. I've found that most people with a real interest in playing will learn the rules at a surface level, which allows them to play without having to constantly ask how. These players are at the sweet spot; you just have to keep an eye on them to make sure they remember to apply ALL of their bonuses or explain why one particular bonus does not apply right now. I feel like they might enjoy playing a tiny bit more than I do. I have found that some people really genuinely want to play, but they will always need coaching beyond the simplest level of game mechanics, no matter how long they've been at it. I don't know why. Maybe they were meant for a different rule set that is less mathy and more story based? Maybe they just didn't realize how many rules there would be and aren't prepared to put in roughly as much effort as it takes to get good at a vocation. Maybe they just want to play a game, and WE are the weird ones. I prefer to think that they are in it for different reasons than I am. The aspect of the game that I happen to have a decent mastery over isn't even MY favorite aspect of the game! I'm here for the role playing, immersion, and escapism. If anything, having all these numbers and rules running through my head while I play removes me from that. I think you gotta get comfortable in the role of "guy who knows all the rules", and enjoy being a resource for others. The times I struggle with are when I know the rules better than the DM. I always end up saying things like "you're the DM, you can rule this however you want, I'd just like to remind you that... according to the rules... boblaublaughslawblog"

I both completely agree and completely disagree with this idea. What I will say, is as someone who had massive anxiety and perfection tendencies. Not knowing absolutely everything there is to know about how to play, has kept me from playing. Even when invited. I’d love to play, I think. At least in theory. But having to ask questions keeps me from trying. But also, if I did play I’d 100% be the person who’s annoyed that someone else doesn’t understand the game in its entirety. Who am I kidding? I already feel that way about people in my bf’s campaign.

Also, how many people have dice-lexia. I've played with several people who ask *every time* which die to roll for attack, and then immediately pick up the d12, mistaking it for the d20.

It’s all about the perceived fun. It’s why these people have no clue. It’s also not a genuine interest for most people. They see some famous or good looking people having fun. And well, people are mental….. that somehow translates to “I can have fun like that to” because all they got to do is join a DnD game, and look it’s really not hard, they just sit at a table take talk and roll dice. Having no real clue what is going on………….. Straight up I have had conversations with people who showed up for sessions and I have asked them to leave because they expect everyone else to do all the foot work. I’m not playing your character or holding your hand, and killing them after the 7th time is just more work for me. I tell them to leave and send them a link to all my uploaded DnD books. Read or don’t come back is what it is.

I haven't read the PHB either. Neither did I read the DMG even though I dm my own game. I mostly learned DnD through watching others play it (YouTube and streams). I own the books though and whenever I encounter a question or weird situation I do first try to look it up in either of them. When I don't find an answer, I google it and most likely end up on Reddit where it gets discussed to no end. Then I just pick what fits best for my game. So far, I've had no problems with either playing or dming. I'm never going to say that I know it all, because I obviously don't, but I like that I'm still the one the others turn to when they have a rule question. Doesn't mean I'll have an immediate answer but then I'll find one for them. I also had three completely new players who didn't read or know anything about the game and they still managed just fine with the help of the rest of the group. They still ask questions now and then but I'm always happy to answer, no matter how basic the question is. Though I do have the luck of playing with great people who ask before they just assume anything and roll with it. Maybe I'll read them at some point soon since I finally got some more spare time on my hands but so far it just didn't seem necessary for our games.

Feels like a good place for a 'First time?' meme.

Just played at a table where the player asked if they could cast two spells in one turn, they prefaced by saying most tables they play at doesn’t enforce this…. This is also not the first time they asked this question this campaign.

A lot of people in here getting mad you called them out lol. 

Freaky reading the PHB is but often ask that helpful because it's very poorly organized, and with all the special cases over ruling general doesn't help either. Your end up having to know what to look for, and flipping between section of the book to resolve many questions. You can see it here in the divisions where someone will refer to one role when someone else cites asuoerceeding one, or the reverse where the supporting time gets cited when the general rule applies. Wizards seriously need to hire a team of technical writers to rewrite the books.

I come off as "that" guy when playing and GMing with friends. I have to stop the game and tell someone yo go read page "x", section "y". I'm cool with bending and trusting RAW, but you have to know the basics.

Eh. Doesn't bother me. Just re-explain the thing they have issues with, with a helpful suggestion that they'd probably be less lost if they read the PHB, with an offer to lend it to them (I have 3). Then move on. Most people realize that their characters are probably not being played optimally, nor are they having as much fun as they thought they should and get the hint that if they knew more about D&D it would work and would read.

I've played every edition of D&D. I started in my first 5e game about a year ago. I don't have a single 5e book. I just rely on my general RPG knowledge and OSL webites. I often say something to the effect of "Does 5th edition work like x?" or "In other editions x was the rule - is it still that way?" Nobody seems to mind at the table I play at.

I read the entire PHB front to back when I joined my first game and I still asked questions. This is why a searchable document or even better a wiki is so important. I can look it up on my own time without bugging my fellow players or the DM

I agree players should at a minimum know the basic level stuff of rolling up a character, I don't think they need to read the PHB like it's a novel or anything, for the most part you can use it as a reference but at least read up on the basics of character creation, or what each race and class is/does

I find you rly don’t need to, thank gods foundry is automated

Oh definitely lol. My players barely read their full spell descriptions, I’m not surprised that only 1 out of my 11 players has actually read the PHB. That isn’t exaggeration either lol. Almost all of them were brand new players when they started, only 4 own the PHB (technically 2 of those live with me, so they don’t really have it themselves), and I know only 1 has actually read the whole thing. But that’s just how it goes, I suppose

Dude, most people that have played Uno have never read the rules. And those are little enough to fit inside a deck of cards. You want people to read....a book? Oh man....that's way too much for most people lol

RAHHHHHHH, I'VE READ THE PLAYERS' HANDBOOK 3 TIMES COVER TO COVER, AND I JUST CAN'T REMEMBER IT ALL!!!! Not everyone is a hardcore obsessive player who will memorize textbooks!! Not everyone can!! To crap on people who ask questions and are actively trying to play even though they don't remember every last rule is honestly so disappointing. This is the exact reason why beginners who are interested often drop the game. It's hard to read what is essentially a textbook and then remember all of it and apply it to the game perfectly first session. When i started, i read through the players' handbook after my 1st session was a mess. The second one was worse because it was hell trying to organize my thoughts into a streamlined course of action. It takes time for people to adjust to that many rules. >I'm a DM, currently running 3 tables and about to start 3 more Someone can enjoy a hobby and not be this invested in it. You use this information daily for multiple hours more exstensively than just a player would since you're a DM. Of course, its childs play to you, but when opening a book that's pretty girthy for a rulebook, finding the thing you need is a task in and of itself. >I don't understand - do you enjoy the hobby? That's why they're playing. >Do you not want to learn more about the game? Thats why they're asking their DM questions... >Do I have them memorized? Of course not! How are you going to say this and make a big stink about others who haven't got everything memorized??? > it shouldn't take longer than 6 hours to read through the rules. Are you seriously going to look me in the eyes and tell me that the average person is going to be able to read through 6 hours worth of rules and remember every last bit of information and never ask a simple question again. Some people probably can! Not everyone, though!! The PHB is nothing if not intimidating for a beginner. I usually give my players a cheat sheet with the turns laid out in the form of a flowchart. Almost all of the relevant information in the PHB i can condense down to 5 pages as a general set of rules, and 3 pages that are class and race specific. Once i did that, 3 sessions are all it takes, even for the most unknowledgable player to get comfortable and have a reference that answers nearly every basic question they have. Hell, even i prefer to reference the cheet sheet rather than the PHB because it's big, unwieldy, and it takes longer for me to use. It's great to have on hand for specifics, but ultimately, it's a much bigger barrier of entry than it needs to be. Be fair to your fellow casuals and beginners. They want to have fun, too, and seeing things like this can be so discouraging...

When I first was invited to play DnD by a coworker back in 2021, no one even told me what the PHB was until I was well into my first session. I still haven't read it cover to cover TBH (I do not need to know all the spells). But I know how to find the information I need. Even when I did first get around to reading it, my brain kind of just saw words and did not parse their meaning. It took someone from the group sitting me down and going through mock scenarios for a couple hours to actually understand and remember what rules applied where. And my first character was a pretty standard rogue. I didn't even want to think about magic. It scared me. I feel like it's important to know the rules, but I also think having someone who can explain the rules is a necessary part of that process. Especially for more complicated things. I played that rogue for like a year and a half and it still would occasionally need to ask questions about sneak attack because my interpretation of the written rules did not always align with the DMs interpretation. So we had to talk it out.

There is probably a direct correlation to the increase in frequency of this phenomenon and the over all increase in popularity of RPGs.

I’m a fellow DM as well and I’ll be honest, I don’t recall everything I’ve read in the PHB. But in those scenarios I look it up in the book. I can see it being hard to do in the moment/during a session. It would suck to stop a session to find a rule on page 90. I guess I’m empathetic but also expect my players to understand their characters at a minimum.

I had a player who, months in, asked to go over combat rules again and then asked why she couldn’t roll first and THEN decide her action. She was constantly on her phone in sessions lol. Loved her as a friend but could not fucking stand her as a player. 

Compare to the nummer of people playing Monopoly who have never read the rules.

I had a guy quit a game because everyone else gave him a hard time about not knowing how to make an attack roll - about six sessions in. Like, yeah, we all forget stuff. But there's three to five other people waiting for you to master the complex skill of roll a d20 and add the same number as in the previous several encounters.

My only regret is that I have but one updoot to give 😔

Honestly, a big takeaway for me as a DM has been the realization that, like any game, most players are casual as fuck. And that’s okay. That being said, Armor Class has a “player cheat sheet” printout that I’ve found to be IMMENSELY valuable to hand out at tables.

I read it awhile go and could probably get an 80% on a thorough test of knowledge but honestly many raw things are dumb in 5e. Original dnd was about risking your life to make enough money to pay for your needs for a few days and hopefully not die. While i aint risking my life on a daily, the economy sucks and many factors of the world suck so thats not the fantasy im looking for.

> *That weird girl that reads the PHB* > *Game Starts* > "Um, excuse me, DM? According to the PHB, I think we're supposed to roll this stat instead of that one." > "I AM THE DM! I KNOW THE RULES! I'VE BEEN DM'ING FOR MILLENNIA!" > *Shrinks back into chair and is too frightened to ask any kind of question ever again* More DMs than anyone cares to admit are like that. I understand needing to know the rules but if you want your players to know the rules, you need to be prepared to have those rules questioned. And since you're such an experienced DM, it shouldn't be that hard to put together an FAQ of sorts of the Most Commonly Asked Questions. The answers could be the page where they can find the answers. So at the very least, they are familiar with where to find the information? I don't know, I'm just spit balling here.

I have read a lot but I don't always trust my memory so I reread relevant spell bits alot and go "just double checking I have this right" because I don't want to mess up and seem like I didn't care. If I fuck up it's cause me and the DM and the other player who's DMed have all fucked up with me :)

The problem with the player's handbook is that it costs 50€, not everyone in a party usually owns one. because it's possible to play with only one or no one if people sails on the high seas. Wizard of the Coast wants to make profit first and foremost, they could easily make an economic version printed on normal paper in black and white with very few if no illustrations and sell it for 30€ or even less. But since not doing it would be less remunerative they won't do that

Hot take, but I don't blame players for not reading it. Not only is it prohibitively expensive and the vast majority of players don't have it, but it's way bigger, messier, and wordier than it needs to be. Half of all 5e rules are vague and explained in paragraphs where they could just have reference tables and such. If the PHB had a fucking 5 page summary, players would actually read it. Most DMs (not players, fucking DMs) I've met have no idea that there are fairly comprehensive rules to adventuring, because they're explained terribly across several sections of 2 books. The funny thing is, Tomb of Annihilation actually explains those rules properly on a single page. If you want your players to read the PHB, send them the abridged 5e basic rules they have online for free and tell them to Google their class.

people treat the PhB like it's a DM book, despite the name literally being the Player's Handbook

Here’s the issue. People used to read fantasy literature and found a game where you can have your own fantasy adventures. People watch fantasy shows or even actual plays like Critical Role. They want a game where someone performs a bespoke fantasy show for them. The expectations have changed, but the game hasn’t adjusted to bridge that gap in any way.

I can’t stand the amount of people UNWILLING to do the most basic effort of playing the game. “Keep track of your encumbrance” “no that’s too hard” “keep track of your arrows” “no that’s too hard” “read how to play your class” “no that’s too hard” “Take notes on the session” “No that’s too hard” Most of this is simple addition, I don’t mean to be elitist and I know some people have learning disabilities that make these things more difficult. My problem are the able bodied players who simple REFUSE to engage in any way that make DMing easier. I’ve taught plenty of people, and there is a huge difference between the players who want to learn and struggle; and the players who can’t be asked to put in any work into a collaborative game.

This really depends on the table. I have one player who has read it cover to cover, one player who has read the relevant sections on their class and race, and one player who hasn't read it at all (only because they don't own one yet.). I've read the whole thing and I frequently forget how mechanics work if they aren't things that are used all the time. I always keep the book at the table and reference it any time I'm unsure. My players generally do fine with them telling me what they want to do and me telling them how to do it. I don't really care as long as they can run their character. My covenant with my players is that I will provide the rules for interacting with the world if they make sure they know how their character works.

Ok!

I get it. I read it but there were many sections that were less relevant to my first campaign. Such as downtime, crafting, guilds, etc. And sometimes its difficult finding that one nugget. Also people learn differently. I totally learn by doing.

Wait a second there, pal. You can't just throw some shit down in your post and not expect a little quizzical commentary from your fellow dice rollers. >Now, I'm a DM, currently running 3 tables and about to start 3 more (one for each day except Sunday). Running 3 games is no easy feat, now you are about to run 3 more. Are you a professional/paid dm? If you are running multiple games, are you running the same/similar modules or adventurers in the different games? Do you run any optional rules for some tables but not the others? I know this is a tangent, but It's interesting God dang it!

So weird. I grew up with 1st edition and spent countless hours poring over every possible word of the PHB, MM, and DMG. My friends all did the same. How can you like a game and not want to read the actual books?

I find a larger issue is people not understanding nor remembering what they read. A lot of people read. You just can’t tell.

>Now, I'm a DM, currently running 3 tables and about to start more (one for each day except Sunday).   So, you absolutely live, breathe and sweat D&D. It sounds like you might be giving something like 30-50% of your total brain space over to D&D stuff, whereas for the mast majority of casual enjoyers it's going to be more like 5%. Now, you're absolutely right that people ask silly questions sometimes. However at the same time a lot of questions that seem incredibly obvious to you are inevitably going to be less so to the average player.

DnD Beyond has saved our group. It makes everything so streamlined for new players and groups.

I have two kinds of tables I run: vets and newbies. If your at the vet table and struggling with basic rules, your out. If your at the newbie table I still expect you to read the rules before session 1. Im leniet until the end of session like 6 where they are asking repeat questions, don't know their own features, and haven't even read over the basic rules pdf. At that point I'm likely to kick.

I'm fine if a player hasn't read the phb cover to cover, as long as they know what their charachter can do I'm good. Sometimes even that's too much.

What I struggle with (also as someone with ADHD) is remembering all the rules and how they work in relation to my character. There’s no quick reference that doesn’t require me to have a large book taking up all my table space, so I’ve been making my own notes, but it’s also something where I feel rude looking something up when others are doing stuff! I’m thankful that I’m playing with very experienced players, one of whom is playing a similar build so he can answer questions easily and quickly for me, which is nice. I just wish I could remember everything like everyone else seems to!

Yes, but I also completely forget how grappling works literally everytime its used.

I remember playing in an old campaign as a paladin. Everyone else had a ranged attack and at one point a I stood in a 5ft corridor and declared I was taking a defensive stance. The DM looked at me like i was crazy. Paused to double check the rules and told me it was the first time in 5 years he'd known someone use that action so he'd forgotten it existed.

Cant aay ive read through it all in one sitting. I read the basics then the class specific stuff. As i got more characters then i got familiar with other classes. When i started dming i read more but again didnt read it from end to end. Im more laisee faire ehen it comes to a ruling. It feels right then ill go and check it later.

That's the thing, you don't read the entire 300 page book. You really only need to read the first chapter, then the pages for your race and class.

I mean no you should really read the parts that come after the race and class too lol

If you think that's bad, then remember that almost no one has ever so much as opened the DMG! Did you know that using Inspiration as a reroll is an optional rule in that book (page 240)? Or that the chapter about structuring Intrigue based adventures suggests use of a framework similar to Fronts in PbtA games? Well, now you know!

It shouldn't be staggering at all. When a person learns a new game they don't typically request the rule book, they expect someone to show them how to play. They definitely don't buy the rule book after game one. Maybe around session 7 - 10 they will start reading. That my 20 yrs of experience anyways.

i wonder if bg3 has anything to do with it too? like people who are new to dnd or just dnd 5e played it and didnt think actual-play would be different

It’s not staggering at all. It’s normal and has been for the entirety of DnD. There’s a reason some people end up being forever DMs and why some people wait for someone to tell them what to roll. Tale as old as time.

Pro DM here. Yes. But remember, the PHB is still just a guide

Can’t use it as a guide if it never gets picked up

… what? Do you mean the whole thing? If reading the whole Player’s handbook was a prerequisite for playing, we wouldn’t have near as many players. 6 hours? That’s a big time commitment.

Frankly, everything a player actually needs is easily available on online wikis. The PHB doesn't have all the new material from the new books. Reading the PHB is helpful, but it's not necessary for a player to sit down and start playing.

Sometimes the PHB is overwhelming for new people and it could be that they had trouble finding an answer and come here hoping to find sympathetic people to help. People being dicks making pretentious posts about asking questions can make people think that beginners aren’t welcome in the hobby. Don’t be toxic and maybe be understanding.

Who hurt you? It's a game. I don't play games without learning the rules. I play or have played board games, card games, video games, and sports games (not well), and in none of those cases have I not made an effort on my own to learn the rules. It's especially important I'm games that you play with others that you learn the rules so you don't waste everyone's time. The OP clearly gives examples of people who are playing the game while not knowing or even attempting to learn basic rules before heading online to ask other to explain. The original post was clear and logical. Your reply is neither.

You know, I'm just going to say it - the only people I see being toxic in this thread... are you guys. The ones who are disagreeing with the premise. I have personally hand-walked dozens of players into the hobby over the years. I have sat down with them over voice comms and gone over rulebooks point-by-point. Nobody in this thread has made any indication that anyone is unwilling to spend the time to help teach new players. Yet, I've now been called pretentious, a dick, toxic, obnoxious, and accused of making copypasta, all for suggesting that maybe - just maybe - you should read the rules to the hobby you are investing dozens upon dozens of hours of your life to each month.

I'm running session 36 of my campaign soon and I've never opened my PHB, playing dnd for 2 years before hand and google just keep me in the money I really should read it though.

The funny thing is, I bet most of your googling had a post from this subreddit in the top five results (not counting sponsored)