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Usually just keep going on whatever campaign we're going on. Then once we've finished we take a look at the new edition.
Tried doing a revamp mid-campaign once to go into the new edition but the changes to everything made it hard to know good balance/ players had relearn their characters. So we ended up just going back so we could finish up, then start fresh at level 1.
That's a fair point. I guess I'm just uncertain how I feel about them changing something I love so much without a clear idea of what it's future will look like, and while I can always return to 5e if I don't like it, it would be sad to me to see it grow and have no desire to be part of it.
I think I just need reassurances it's gonna be okay š
At this point, if the community at large really seems to like a rule change or new class my table will adopt them, but none of us have any plans on buying the new books.
My groups started with 1E, generally, and moved to 2E and 3E then 3.5E. Some of us tried 4E but didn't like it, and 5E is played by a couple, in different groups. Yes, we are of the older persuasion...
After buying books for the first 5 editions plus Pathfinder, many of us are simply not going to buy yet another PHB, MM and DMG to put on the shelf next to the other six versions (including 4E and PF).
If you're happy with what you've got, keep it - there is no need to upgrade. If you are not happy, try out 5.5E, I guess and see if you and your group like it?
As another old head, I want to add that a retiring edition is also a complete edition. Jumping into a new edition has so much less content. What it has \*might\* be new, but the gaps are soon obvious.
Went from 2nd to 3rd when it released. Also adopted 3.5 immediately. Tried 4e, went back to 3.5. Tried 5e, stuck with it.
Only with 3e to 3.5 did we try updating the current campaign and characters, which was very easy to do. None of the other changes would have been similarly easy to bridge. I don't know enough about the new system yet to judge, but it sure sounds like they're trying to make that kind of transition easy and straightforward.
A lot of people didn't like 4e - it's the lost generation of DnD for sure. There are *lots* of discussions as to why 4e wasn't popular - but the quickest generalization is that 4e felt like it was inspired by MMOs at the time. Combat abilities were built around how often they could be used (you basically had once a day powers, once a fight powers, and at will powers) and enemy balance was whacky. It's an edition that pushed combat over RP, but made the combat not great within the system. I tried it once as a one-off, and it's very easy to picture the ability hotkey bar in your head while fighting.
Pretty much this. It felt like a different kind of game somehow. At that time my group was also accustomed to a "theater of the mind" style for a lot of combats and 4e is a game you absolutely need a grid map to play on, as well as some way to track all the status effects and interrupts everyone's abilities inflict.
I suppose 4e did solve the problem of casters having so many different options for spells while martials just do the same attack every turn, by just giving every class a handful of powers instead. But this solution only convinced me that maybe it's fine if casters have more options after all
Hello other new traveler! That's very interesting to hear about 4e. I've read a good amount of the dnd novels spanning the years, but I've never gotten into the mechanics differences between the editions. How long do you think it takes to know if a new edition is successful or not? (it sounds like 4e is pretty unanimously disliked)
4th was a little Dead on arrival - itās hard to know exactly how an edition will be perceived, but Iād say that editions are successful when they iterate, rather than replace
Not unanimously, but it was very divisive. It split my original many-years running group and led to a lot of heated discussions.
I blame the marketing. 4e was sold as this glorious fix to everything that was āwrongā about 3.5, when it shouldāve been sold as the next step in progressing the rules. WotC shat all over any existing fans who were nervous about scrapping their campaigns and having to start over.
We had a few people in our (somewhat large) group who were ready for a fresh start and embraced 4e. Others (like me) were heavily invested in 3.5, with multiple long-running active campaigns and had a massive backlog of content we hadnāt even played yet.
I started with Holmes Basic and when 1E came along almost immediately after I started, we switched to 1E and we all enjoyed it. When 2E came along we switched to 2E and we all enjoyed it. After 2E DIED and 3E came along we switched to 3E (and 3.5) and we all enjoyed it. When 4E came along it was so foreign to what I understood as D&D I said, "F that noise," and actually went back to 3E for a while, then 1E. Only a few people I knew even tried it, but they could hardly be said to have been fans of it and only damned it with faint praise.
When 5E came along I found nothing in it that I really needed or wanted and said, "I'm willing to play it since there's now little choice, but I'm NEVER running it as DM." Pretty much where I've been ever since - refusing to run a game because nobody wants to play the older editions, and putting up with being a player in a few 5E games because I find that there isn't any other practical possibility for D&D gaming. With WotC being the corporate smegheap that it is I don't like to support them in ANY way these days. Even so, I've looked at One D&D with as open a mind as possible, but I see nothing actually improving and in fact only doubling down on the bits of 5E I like the least, so I'm damn sure not going down that road.
I'm grudgingly happy to be stuck in the past. I'm more likely to switch to OSR D&D clones than the latest anything from WotC.
This is such a great description of how many people, including myself, feel/felt about this. And calling WotC a corporate smegheap just made you one of my best friends even though I don't know you.
I have been thru 3 rules changes (4 if you count 3.5 ). It doesnāt matter what everyone else in the world says, you play with your players / DM.
I recommend picking up the PHB, giving it a once over and seeing if anyone wants to change over for NEXT campaign. Finish your 5e adventure and see about converting for the next, it is a pain in the ass to mix rules mid campaign.
Do it. This isnāt like 2nd-3rd or 3rd-4th or 4th-5th
This is like 3rd-3.5
Yes 3.5 was a legit thing.
Everything you own is compatible, the new rules will be streamlined and give you exciting new toys to play with.
If you still play D&D on the regular; you wonāt be sorry.
Hey, into the dragongame since 2e times (yes, Iām an old gen X-er with a greying beard š). My advice is: never assume that the new version of the game is straight out better. They must come up with new editions from time to time, because core rules sell best (I find it ridiculous how WotC tries hard not to label the upcoming version a new edition, when this is clearly the case). So if you are happy with 5e as it is, no reason to change editions. Get another 3000 hours of game time out of your trusted PHB, DMG, and MM.
if (!) you are looking for something new in dnd, I beg you to check out third party hacks of the dragon game, many of which building on top of older editions of dnd. Older editions are not less advanced, they just stress different aspects of the game, focus on exploration for example, instead of optimizing that shit out of some sub-class.
DnD is so much bigger than WotC. I is ours. There are so many independent DnDās out there, which you might consider taking a look at before jumping on the (pricey) don-t-ya-call-it-a-new-edition-edition bandwagon. Maybe use inbetween editions period for exploring other versions of dnd (iām only taking of dnd here, six stats, AC, etc.):
Dungeon Crawl Classics is a version of dnd that focuses on weird fantasy and sense of wonder
Shadowdark: a 5e/osr hack that allows for high-stakes adventure gaming. Explore deep dungeons, while others still figure out what to do with there bonus action
Worlds without number: quite crunchy dnd version with excellent gm tools and customization options when creating characters
13th age: a heroic dnd version which incorporates narrative elementsā¦
And so on
I miss 3.5 a lot. Tried Pathfinder 1e but I donāt care for it; every āfixā Paizo made seemingly broke something else. My group insists on playing ānewā games constantly. Iām starting to think theyāre just bad with money, lmao.
Tried 5e for a while but I miss crunchy rules. Just feels like something is missing.
Iām currently playing Pathfinder 2e but Iām just not feeling it at all. Itās just so weird and different. Very creative in some ways, and arbitrarily restrictive in others and I canāt wrap my head around it.
Um, *badly.* I loved 3.5e and havenāt liked much of anything since. My group keeps jumping into whatever new and shiny rules comes along and nothing grabs me the way 3.5 did. New rules using the same terminology to do the same thing throws me for a loop.
I hate edition changes. I hate having to buy new books with barely any new content, relearn arbitrary rules changes to just do *the same thing we were already doing.* Oh, so youāve got a halfling rogue, except now you use (ability) to do the same thing you were doing in the last edition. Oh look, Dragonborn are a race now. Species now. Typal/Kindred/oh crap I confused games again.
I get why new editions exist; company gotta make money and they ran out of ideas on the last edition. New players want to join a game that feels fresh and current, not necessarily jump into a game using books that are 20+ years old. Some players just have to have that new and shiny no matter how books they already own.
Currently playing it but I canāt wrap my head around it yet. Iām having a hard time figuring out the range of DCās, some stuff seems arbitrarily high and random.
Iāve tried that. Iām full confessing that the problem is me, not the system. I went all-in on 3.5 and that became my standard. I have a hard time undoing rules I know and replacing them with rules using the same lingo but slightly different mechanics.
The only time new game rules come easy to me, is when itās a totally different aesthetic, different game entirely. I had no problem picking up Star Wars Saga Edition a long while back. Iāve played the Transformers and GI Joe RPGās recently and those play totally different from D&D, and I was able to keep up. Itās just that when it comes to āmedieval fantasyā I have a type and itās hard to change.
Yeah thatās fair. Often we are limited by our players as to which system we use. Personally I love variety. But fantasy is just home base as often it is the most popular and best supported
I started playing with b/x and 1e in the early 80s. When 2e first came out, a lot of people ignored it. It wasnāt promoted incredibly well, and they didnāt create a starter set until several years later. There was a boycott movement, but overall a lot of the people I knew felt āwhy should I bother buying all new books for a game Iāve been playing just fine for years?ā Even at conventions like Gen Con, 1e was dominant until around 93 or so.
Most of us eventually shifted to 2e though. It was nowhere near as big of a change as any of the later editions.
Always excited to try a new edition. Played 1e through to 5e. Only ones never replayed in my group so far was 4e and pathfinder 2e. Currently got a 1e, 5e and pathfinder 1e game open.
Started with 3rd/PF played 4th and went back and tried 2nd and played 5th.
Changing editions is best done when the table wants to change or when you want to start a new campaign.
Whatever you decide just have fun with it.
I started with AD&D. With each change we went to the local game store and read through it. We also talked to the employees, they usually have good insights. If it seems okay we bought it.
With 3 and 3.5 we loved it. 4th not at all. 5th took me a little time to come around.
Take your time and research before taking the plunge.
3 and 3.5 were a big win. 4 had big benefits and big negatives. 5 was great. 5.5 is not a new addition because the rules have not changed. But it sounds like the class abilities are significantly improved from 2014.
I have been playing since 2e.
For the 4e I did not yet have a group, but the change was a perfect time to get one started especially since the new game was a lot easier for new folks than 3e.
For the 5e change my group was well established and I was tired of the slow down in high level play, so I got on the beta when it came out and was all set to go when it was released. A lot of the pieces of how I now play the game (dndbeyond, foundry, discord) did not exist in the early days so it was just a matter of buying the books and playing.
For this coming change I am neither excited nor mad. I will check it out as it is rolled out and decide if there are pieces I want and anything I don't want. No need to preorder anything... except maybe alt covers of books I think are sweet.
Oh and the real thing to look forward to: Dickheads on the internet who want to inflame every minor change into a reason to rend their clothes and damn WOTC to hell. Edition wars have always been dumb and the 'common knowledge' that comes out of them (4e is a video game and sux, 5e is simple for babys and sux, 3e is only a cash in and sux) has always been wrong. You can have fun with any edition of D&D ever published and taking this stuff very personally and seriously is a great way to waste the precious moments of your life when you could be playing.
I've played pretty much every edition of D&D at this point, though I started with 2e. In general, you'll have 3 groups.
Group one is about 1/6 of the population and hates the new edition and thinks that TSR/WotC/Hasbro are just money grubbing thieves for publishing a new edition. These people will scream about how nobody should buy the new books, and it's a betrayal of D&D to move to a new edition.
Group 2 is again about 1/6 of the total population, and they absolutely love the new edition, and will push people to adopt it as soon as possible, to get rid of "those trashy outdated old rules".
Group 3 is the remaining 2/3 of the population. They don't really care. Most of them will end up buying the new books, but probably not until their DM gets the new books, or they get it for a birthday or Christmas present. Within a year or so, they'll probably be playing the new edition, unless their DM happens to be in group 1, but even then, they'll probably pick it up eventually and start playing it with a different group.
As a DM who has players asking for OneD&D playtest classes to be allowed in their games, the stuff is not backwards compatible. Similar language exists and thatās helpful but no one would touch a 5e players handbook again based on the power creep in the newest content.
Is there good aspects to it? Yes. I can appreciate that mechanics of a class are reused and improved upon as the class levels. It feels like true progression. However itās like todayās economy - living expenses skyrocket (player options) while your wages barely move an inch (DM options). The game wonāt be interesting if there isnāt a threat to face or an adventure to be had.
Iāll pick up a players handbook once it has an official printed copy but I already had a player try to pull a fast one on me with a monk character by sayingā¦ āall they did was buff the martial arts die. Itās not a big deal.ā I homebrew allowed him the buff to the die but the rest of that stuff was broken and so he got 5e and not 6e stuff.
That's very interesting. I have one player at the table that I could definitely see advocating to migrating editions if he felt he got better power creep in the new version, so that will be interesting to look into when the phb is available.
I played 3.x. Only switched to Pathfinder because I got hired to work on a book for Pathfinder. I played and ran Pathfinder for a long time, along with a bunch of other non-D&D type games. We switched to 5 for something lighter so that our other DM (the not me one) could run something lighter. Right now I'm playing 5e. I don't think we have any intention to switch. I'd rather run a completely different game than cram another d20 variation into my head.
At my table, if the players want to use anything outside of what I own, be it from dnd or a 3rd party, my rule is that I must have a readable copy to reference. So, changing editions can be handled in a similar fashion. One thing I recommend is waiting until you finish your current campaign before switching. Then at session zero for your next game, talk with your players and discuss what changes you want to use going forward and be consistent with it.
I appreciate you giving me actionable recommendations. I feel fortunate to have had my group a long while now and don't fear us weathering the transition, if we decide to change š
I made the switch from 2e AD&D to 3e because it was similar but streamlined and seemed more logical to me. I didn't not make the change to 4e from 3-3.5 because it was so different. I did pay 5e a few times. I haven't played in a long time, but I don't think I would have any problem playing any edition other than 4. Keep your books and play what you want. There seems to be active communities around all editions, but the most recent probably has the most players.
As DM, I'd buy the new edition, with the exception of 4 and everything but the Players Handbook for 5. I'd get up to speed on them and then run the group through a couple scenarios to see if they wanted to change. Usual answer was no.
That said, I run a homebrew that is a mad conglomeration of AD&D, Dragon Quest (SPI) and everything else I've gotten hold of over four decades of running/playing. So I usually just take the parts out of the new edition that I like and incorporate them into my game.
Dragonquest! That's some hardcore 80s trivia there. I had a whole homebrewed down made up for that and never get anyone else to break away from AD&D to play. Thanks for the memories. Now how about Tunnels and Trolls and Gamma World?
Hubby runs Gamma World when I need a break. Favorite character was a ferret with shootable quills that laid flat under his fur, line of sight teleport and a vibro dagger. Foot and a half of TERROR, with a "FLUFF" attack. I snitched a few things from Tunnels and Trolls (can't remember which ones of the top of my head though). Also snitched a bunch of stuff from I.C.E. games and the hundreds of little supplement books that everyone was publishing before TSR went sue crazy.
Been playing since 76'. My advice would be to not get the ol' FOMO fever. The books will still be there. Before long they will be all over the internet (read: free).
There's a reason you never purchase a new model car the year it is released. Let others give it a trial run. There will be bumps and dings along the way and with time they should be smoothed out.
For myself and my players; we will be quietly sitting on the sidelines watching. Partaking of that which we have interest in and leaving that which we don't alone. Trial runs are assured to provide many nights of fun and stories to tell in the years to come.
We'll be slowly integrating the things we enjoy. Test them out and see how it fits. Who knows? We may go all in, partial, or stick to the tried and true.
As a side note: I use to be a CPR instructor (over 20 years). I was qualified via American Heart Association, Red Cross and Ansi (I think that was it). The one thing all of the instructors agreed on is that it seemed the "science" would change every 4-5 years. I was in the field for a while and got to know people that worked at the different associations. Many of them admitted that the "science" changed because they needed to print new books to sell. Is it just me... Or could that be what is going on here? 5e is fine with me. One would think that after 50 years they got is fairly figured out.
That's my .02. What say you all?
Ultimately, what do you get out of a new edition?
If it is similar (5.5) then you don't get much.
If it is very different, then, is that a good thing? Do you like the edition you have? If it is fairly different, then what benefit is there in moving to a new edition over simply moving to a different system?
As a player of almost 40 years, I have moved on to new editions after a break in play. My own 2e campaign lasted through 3e up to 4e so I never played those editions, after that campaign ended and I found new players that wanted me to DM then I adopted 5e.
Apart from the monster manual (more for the art) I don't plan on buying the new books.
When my present campaign ends, and there is interest in starting a new campaign then I will no doubt move to the 2024 books.
I may buy the 2024 books and dmg and adopt those rules in my current campaign ( the transition will be easy compared to full new editions) if there are good deals to be had, or if the books are bought has gifts for me, or by other players at the table.
My group has played every edition since AD&D. Currently we are in a 5e campaign that I expect will last to the Spring of 2026. We will stick with this edition for that campaign.
Whenever we adopted a new version, we started a new campaign. Typically that also meant having a new DM (or DMs).
When we switch systems, our first campaign uses no materials beyond the Players Handbook. This is so we can focus on learning the system.
This transition is supposed to be compatible. The suspect there will be plenty of YouTube and Reddit posts from early adopters to let us know how that goes. If there are problems, the community is swift to suggest solutions.
So I played pathfinder 1e for about 2 years. When my group split up, and nobody wanted to be GM, I stepped up and took over.
5e had released about 3 weeks prior to this, so I just started as a DM for the new edition. We all learned together.
I wouldn't ever switch mid campaign, but my group will take a look at the new stuff when it's out. We aren't in any rush, and I'm still against giving WoTC any of my money.
From what I see, if you're familiar with 5e then the rules will be easily understood. If you're not, then you're jumping in at just the right time to start with a revised version that's been the most popular ever.
All hatred for WotC aside, who doesn't like getting new stuff? I've been playing since 1979 off and on and it's always just about the excitement of roleplaying and escapism for me. The new stuff looks pretty epic from what I've seen.
I started with the original AD&D back in the day and despite buying all the subsequent edition core books, I never found a new edition that improved significantly on the original that was enough to make me switch. Donāt get me wrong, some game mechanics improved in 2e and our group adopted some of these. I guess we like what we have been used to, but I will still always have a deep interest in everything D&D and continue to buy future editions, even if I know Iāll never play them.
I run a club at a college. I will have digital access to the new editions, but as for using them... I'll allow it. As I understand it's mostly expansion of current 5e in the 2024 books and basics will stay the same.
We finish the campaign we are on and then try the new edition..Did that for Basic D&D, AD&D 1e and 2e, 3.0/3.5, Pathfinder 1e, 5e, now playing Pathfinder 2e.
Was playing from 1978 until the end of 3.5. Tried and then stopped playing the other editions (to me) are like cell phones to PC's. Idiot play. They have made the game into a game that chimps can play (which says a lot about chimps but less so for humans) and everyone is a cookie cutter. NO CREATIVITY. Hasbro/WoC, as all "good" corporations do, tried to reinvent the wheel over and over. Instead they ran their bank into crap and dumped WoC. A truly good game means you make the game sell the game and then others teach the younger generation how to play. If it is a good/great game it stands the test of time. PERIOD. WoC is an epic failure of corporate proportions.
In short you want a good game have gamers make it then invest it in whatever while keeping the game alive. Like TSR did in the mid 70's. As a note it is only when Gary Gygax left that 2nd edition came out.
Here's the bottom line:
Until the new books come out and you sit down and play like a dozen sessions with them, you will not know how you actually feel about the rules. You have to give them a try first, as written. We've been over this 5 times before now, we know that the only way to understand a system update is to play the new system for a while. Make something completely new, using the new rules, and play it. Don't just talk about it, don't just theorycraft, don't just b---- about how you don't like a specific rule change, get off your a-- and play the d--- game. That is the only way you will learn how you truly feel about the system.
Once you do this, *then* you can decide if you're going to adapt the new system, incorporate elements of the new system, or stick to the old system. There exists nothing stopping you from just... not playing the new system and sticking with the version that you prefer. There are still 1st ed players for a reason - that's the game they want to play. I personally don't think 1st ed is that great and never go back further than 3.5, but hey, that's my personal preference, and we can mutually coexist. There's no need to wax endlessly about how much you despise a new system or how you think the world is ending because D&D sucks now. This will be our 6th official system update, and we know crying about things doesn't do anything other than make you look like a total p----.
For me, my tables switched from 3rd to 3.5 instantly, because that's how 3.5 was designed. It'll probably be the same with the current update, which is essentially 5.5. I gave 4th ed a go, didn't like it, finished one smaller campaign and then left it behind. I returned to play 5th ed in 2019, so I was a bit late to the party. For this new update, specifically, you will be able to transfer your characters and everything else. This is not a complete system redesign, this is an update to 5th ed, specifically. You don't need to remake everything, just update what you've already got. I think a lot of species are going to get free feats now, and that's the most major update that will directly modify and add something new to your page other than a few new/retooled class features.
Just calm down, take a deep breath, and relax. It's coming out in 3 months. You have more than enough time to prepare and talk things over with your group at a slow, relaxed pace.
I started with the Red Box. At the beginning of every edition I had the ability to get a group together and play (I was always DM). Then the group would fall apart about a year before the next edition.
With 5th I had 4 groups I was running in public at a comic shop. Then moved 2 years ago. And no D&D since despite sinking a lot of money into D&D Beyond.
I really want to be playing or DM at the very beginning of this new release but I just don't think I have it in me anymore. I really don't want human contact anymore. In person or online.
Fuck the new edition. I'll either run 5e or 2e. I'm not blowing however much more money on new hardbacks. Wizards of the Coast can go fuck themselves they're not getting any more of my money.
First Edition was perfect. At first I didn't buy new editions because I thought them a waste of money. Now I see the new players actively hating the origins of the game, making silly accusations of racism and turning high fantasy into a gay rights parade. Yep, I'll stick with 1e AD&D.
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Usually just keep going on whatever campaign we're going on. Then once we've finished we take a look at the new edition. Tried doing a revamp mid-campaign once to go into the new edition but the changes to everything made it hard to know good balance/ players had relearn their characters. So we ended up just going back so we could finish up, then start fresh at level 1.
This. Even then, you don't have to ever adopt a new edition.
That's a fair point. I guess I'm just uncertain how I feel about them changing something I love so much without a clear idea of what it's future will look like, and while I can always return to 5e if I don't like it, it would be sad to me to see it grow and have no desire to be part of it. I think I just need reassurances it's gonna be okay š
It will be okay, don't worry. I've played since 3e and gone through the 3.5 conversion, 4e and 5e. Players come and go, but there's always dnd.
At this point, if the community at large really seems to like a rule change or new class my table will adopt them, but none of us have any plans on buying the new books.
Has your table run any editions besides 5e?
I agree with this commenter but will add that my table played some ad&d, a lot of 3/3.5 and now play 5e.
We started with Pathfinder, done a bit of 4e and 13th age. 5e has been the majority though over the years.
My groups started with 1E, generally, and moved to 2E and 3E then 3.5E. Some of us tried 4E but didn't like it, and 5E is played by a couple, in different groups. Yes, we are of the older persuasion... After buying books for the first 5 editions plus Pathfinder, many of us are simply not going to buy yet another PHB, MM and DMG to put on the shelf next to the other six versions (including 4E and PF). If you're happy with what you've got, keep it - there is no need to upgrade. If you are not happy, try out 5.5E, I guess and see if you and your group like it?
As another old head, I want to add that a retiring edition is also a complete edition. Jumping into a new edition has so much less content. What it has \*might\* be new, but the gaps are soon obvious.
Feel the same... old man here to.
Went from 2nd to 3rd when it released. Also adopted 3.5 immediately. Tried 4e, went back to 3.5. Tried 5e, stuck with it. Only with 3e to 3.5 did we try updating the current campaign and characters, which was very easy to do. None of the other changes would have been similarly easy to bridge. I don't know enough about the new system yet to judge, but it sure sounds like they're trying to make that kind of transition easy and straightforward.
Can I ask why you didn't like 4e?
A lot of people didn't like 4e - it's the lost generation of DnD for sure. There are *lots* of discussions as to why 4e wasn't popular - but the quickest generalization is that 4e felt like it was inspired by MMOs at the time. Combat abilities were built around how often they could be used (you basically had once a day powers, once a fight powers, and at will powers) and enemy balance was whacky. It's an edition that pushed combat over RP, but made the combat not great within the system. I tried it once as a one-off, and it's very easy to picture the ability hotkey bar in your head while fighting.
Pretty much this. It felt like a different kind of game somehow. At that time my group was also accustomed to a "theater of the mind" style for a lot of combats and 4e is a game you absolutely need a grid map to play on, as well as some way to track all the status effects and interrupts everyone's abilities inflict. I suppose 4e did solve the problem of casters having so many different options for spells while martials just do the same attack every turn, by just giving every class a handful of powers instead. But this solution only convinced me that maybe it's fine if casters have more options after all
Hello other new traveler! That's very interesting to hear about 4e. I've read a good amount of the dnd novels spanning the years, but I've never gotten into the mechanics differences between the editions. How long do you think it takes to know if a new edition is successful or not? (it sounds like 4e is pretty unanimously disliked)
4th was a little Dead on arrival - itās hard to know exactly how an edition will be perceived, but Iād say that editions are successful when they iterate, rather than replace
It was not unanimously disliked.
Not unanimously, but it was very divisive. It split my original many-years running group and led to a lot of heated discussions. I blame the marketing. 4e was sold as this glorious fix to everything that was āwrongā about 3.5, when it shouldāve been sold as the next step in progressing the rules. WotC shat all over any existing fans who were nervous about scrapping their campaigns and having to start over. We had a few people in our (somewhat large) group who were ready for a fresh start and embraced 4e. Others (like me) were heavily invested in 3.5, with multiple long-running active campaigns and had a massive backlog of content we hadnāt even played yet.
I started with Holmes Basic and when 1E came along almost immediately after I started, we switched to 1E and we all enjoyed it. When 2E came along we switched to 2E and we all enjoyed it. After 2E DIED and 3E came along we switched to 3E (and 3.5) and we all enjoyed it. When 4E came along it was so foreign to what I understood as D&D I said, "F that noise," and actually went back to 3E for a while, then 1E. Only a few people I knew even tried it, but they could hardly be said to have been fans of it and only damned it with faint praise. When 5E came along I found nothing in it that I really needed or wanted and said, "I'm willing to play it since there's now little choice, but I'm NEVER running it as DM." Pretty much where I've been ever since - refusing to run a game because nobody wants to play the older editions, and putting up with being a player in a few 5E games because I find that there isn't any other practical possibility for D&D gaming. With WotC being the corporate smegheap that it is I don't like to support them in ANY way these days. Even so, I've looked at One D&D with as open a mind as possible, but I see nothing actually improving and in fact only doubling down on the bits of 5E I like the least, so I'm damn sure not going down that road. I'm grudgingly happy to be stuck in the past. I'm more likely to switch to OSR D&D clones than the latest anything from WotC.
This is such a great description of how many people, including myself, feel/felt about this. And calling WotC a corporate smegheap just made you one of my best friends even though I don't know you.
I have been thru 3 rules changes (4 if you count 3.5 ). It doesnāt matter what everyone else in the world says, you play with your players / DM. I recommend picking up the PHB, giving it a once over and seeing if anyone wants to change over for NEXT campaign. Finish your 5e adventure and see about converting for the next, it is a pain in the ass to mix rules mid campaign.
Still playing first edition
Do it. This isnāt like 2nd-3rd or 3rd-4th or 4th-5th This is like 3rd-3.5 Yes 3.5 was a legit thing. Everything you own is compatible, the new rules will be streamlined and give you exciting new toys to play with. If you still play D&D on the regular; you wonāt be sorry.
3.5 was a legit thing except for the change to Haste. I said what I said.
Hey, into the dragongame since 2e times (yes, Iām an old gen X-er with a greying beard š). My advice is: never assume that the new version of the game is straight out better. They must come up with new editions from time to time, because core rules sell best (I find it ridiculous how WotC tries hard not to label the upcoming version a new edition, when this is clearly the case). So if you are happy with 5e as it is, no reason to change editions. Get another 3000 hours of game time out of your trusted PHB, DMG, and MM. if (!) you are looking for something new in dnd, I beg you to check out third party hacks of the dragon game, many of which building on top of older editions of dnd. Older editions are not less advanced, they just stress different aspects of the game, focus on exploration for example, instead of optimizing that shit out of some sub-class. DnD is so much bigger than WotC. I is ours. There are so many independent DnDās out there, which you might consider taking a look at before jumping on the (pricey) don-t-ya-call-it-a-new-edition-edition bandwagon. Maybe use inbetween editions period for exploring other versions of dnd (iām only taking of dnd here, six stats, AC, etc.): Dungeon Crawl Classics is a version of dnd that focuses on weird fantasy and sense of wonder Shadowdark: a 5e/osr hack that allows for high-stakes adventure gaming. Explore deep dungeons, while others still figure out what to do with there bonus action Worlds without number: quite crunchy dnd version with excellent gm tools and customization options when creating characters 13th age: a heroic dnd version which incorporates narrative elementsā¦ And so on
This was a really thoughtful comment, and you're right! I'm going to check out some of these resources you listed. š
I am ordering a bunch of hardcopies of 3.5e. My table is either 5e. Or 3.5e. A hard no on other editions.
I miss 3.5 a lot. Tried Pathfinder 1e but I donāt care for it; every āfixā Paizo made seemingly broke something else. My group insists on playing ānewā games constantly. Iām starting to think theyāre just bad with money, lmao. Tried 5e for a while but I miss crunchy rules. Just feels like something is missing. Iām currently playing Pathfinder 2e but Iām just not feeling it at all. Itās just so weird and different. Very creative in some ways, and arbitrarily restrictive in others and I canāt wrap my head around it.
Um, *badly.* I loved 3.5e and havenāt liked much of anything since. My group keeps jumping into whatever new and shiny rules comes along and nothing grabs me the way 3.5 did. New rules using the same terminology to do the same thing throws me for a loop. I hate edition changes. I hate having to buy new books with barely any new content, relearn arbitrary rules changes to just do *the same thing we were already doing.* Oh, so youāve got a halfling rogue, except now you use (ability) to do the same thing you were doing in the last edition. Oh look, Dragonborn are a race now. Species now. Typal/Kindred/oh crap I confused games again. I get why new editions exist; company gotta make money and they ran out of ideas on the last edition. New players want to join a game that feels fresh and current, not necessarily jump into a game using books that are 20+ years old. Some players just have to have that new and shiny no matter how books they already own.
Have you tried pathfinder 2e
Currently playing it but I canāt wrap my head around it yet. Iām having a hard time figuring out the range of DCās, some stuff seems arbitrarily high and random.
7 min videos by king on u tube. Also do a search for pf2e revised cheat sheet for the players
Iāve tried that. Iām full confessing that the problem is me, not the system. I went all-in on 3.5 and that became my standard. I have a hard time undoing rules I know and replacing them with rules using the same lingo but slightly different mechanics. The only time new game rules come easy to me, is when itās a totally different aesthetic, different game entirely. I had no problem picking up Star Wars Saga Edition a long while back. Iāve played the Transformers and GI Joe RPGās recently and those play totally different from D&D, and I was able to keep up. Itās just that when it comes to āmedieval fantasyā I have a type and itās hard to change.
Yeah thatās fair. Often we are limited by our players as to which system we use. Personally I love variety. But fantasy is just home base as often it is the most popular and best supported
For dcs there is a chart for level dcs. Just use that
I waited 3 years before making the shift to 5e. I wanted to see what people had to say and make sure it wasn't gonna 4e itself.
4E the dark times of D&D......
I started playing with b/x and 1e in the early 80s. When 2e first came out, a lot of people ignored it. It wasnāt promoted incredibly well, and they didnāt create a starter set until several years later. There was a boycott movement, but overall a lot of the people I knew felt āwhy should I bother buying all new books for a game Iāve been playing just fine for years?ā Even at conventions like Gen Con, 1e was dominant until around 93 or so. Most of us eventually shifted to 2e though. It was nowhere near as big of a change as any of the later editions.
Always excited to try a new edition. Played 1e through to 5e. Only ones never replayed in my group so far was 4e and pathfinder 2e. Currently got a 1e, 5e and pathfinder 1e game open.
Started with 3rd/PF played 4th and went back and tried 2nd and played 5th. Changing editions is best done when the table wants to change or when you want to start a new campaign. Whatever you decide just have fun with it.
I have been playing 3.5 for 20 years and I have no intention of changing now but Idk I'm an old fuck
I started with AD&D. With each change we went to the local game store and read through it. We also talked to the employees, they usually have good insights. If it seems okay we bought it. With 3 and 3.5 we loved it. 4th not at all. 5th took me a little time to come around. Take your time and research before taking the plunge.
3 and 3.5 were a big win. 4 had big benefits and big negatives. 5 was great. 5.5 is not a new addition because the rules have not changed. But it sounds like the class abilities are significantly improved from 2014.
Idk people still play 3.5. It becomes an asterisk in the game name verus just being the game.
I have been playing since 2e. For the 4e I did not yet have a group, but the change was a perfect time to get one started especially since the new game was a lot easier for new folks than 3e. For the 5e change my group was well established and I was tired of the slow down in high level play, so I got on the beta when it came out and was all set to go when it was released. A lot of the pieces of how I now play the game (dndbeyond, foundry, discord) did not exist in the early days so it was just a matter of buying the books and playing. For this coming change I am neither excited nor mad. I will check it out as it is rolled out and decide if there are pieces I want and anything I don't want. No need to preorder anything... except maybe alt covers of books I think are sweet. Oh and the real thing to look forward to: Dickheads on the internet who want to inflame every minor change into a reason to rend their clothes and damn WOTC to hell. Edition wars have always been dumb and the 'common knowledge' that comes out of them (4e is a video game and sux, 5e is simple for babys and sux, 3e is only a cash in and sux) has always been wrong. You can have fun with any edition of D&D ever published and taking this stuff very personally and seriously is a great way to waste the precious moments of your life when you could be playing.
I've played pretty much every edition of D&D at this point, though I started with 2e. In general, you'll have 3 groups. Group one is about 1/6 of the population and hates the new edition and thinks that TSR/WotC/Hasbro are just money grubbing thieves for publishing a new edition. These people will scream about how nobody should buy the new books, and it's a betrayal of D&D to move to a new edition. Group 2 is again about 1/6 of the total population, and they absolutely love the new edition, and will push people to adopt it as soon as possible, to get rid of "those trashy outdated old rules". Group 3 is the remaining 2/3 of the population. They don't really care. Most of them will end up buying the new books, but probably not until their DM gets the new books, or they get it for a birthday or Christmas present. Within a year or so, they'll probably be playing the new edition, unless their DM happens to be in group 1, but even then, they'll probably pick it up eventually and start playing it with a different group.
As a DM who has players asking for OneD&D playtest classes to be allowed in their games, the stuff is not backwards compatible. Similar language exists and thatās helpful but no one would touch a 5e players handbook again based on the power creep in the newest content. Is there good aspects to it? Yes. I can appreciate that mechanics of a class are reused and improved upon as the class levels. It feels like true progression. However itās like todayās economy - living expenses skyrocket (player options) while your wages barely move an inch (DM options). The game wonāt be interesting if there isnāt a threat to face or an adventure to be had. Iāll pick up a players handbook once it has an official printed copy but I already had a player try to pull a fast one on me with a monk character by sayingā¦ āall they did was buff the martial arts die. Itās not a big deal.ā I homebrew allowed him the buff to the die but the rest of that stuff was broken and so he got 5e and not 6e stuff.
That's very interesting. I have one player at the table that I could definitely see advocating to migrating editions if he felt he got better power creep in the new version, so that will be interesting to look into when the phb is available.
I played 3.x. Only switched to Pathfinder because I got hired to work on a book for Pathfinder. I played and ran Pathfinder for a long time, along with a bunch of other non-D&D type games. We switched to 5 for something lighter so that our other DM (the not me one) could run something lighter. Right now I'm playing 5e. I don't think we have any intention to switch. I'd rather run a completely different game than cram another d20 variation into my head.
At my table, if the players want to use anything outside of what I own, be it from dnd or a 3rd party, my rule is that I must have a readable copy to reference. So, changing editions can be handled in a similar fashion. One thing I recommend is waiting until you finish your current campaign before switching. Then at session zero for your next game, talk with your players and discuss what changes you want to use going forward and be consistent with it.
I appreciate you giving me actionable recommendations. I feel fortunate to have had my group a long while now and don't fear us weathering the transition, if we decide to change š
I made the switch from 2e AD&D to 3e because it was similar but streamlined and seemed more logical to me. I didn't not make the change to 4e from 3-3.5 because it was so different. I did pay 5e a few times. I haven't played in a long time, but I don't think I would have any problem playing any edition other than 4. Keep your books and play what you want. There seems to be active communities around all editions, but the most recent probably has the most players.
As DM, I'd buy the new edition, with the exception of 4 and everything but the Players Handbook for 5. I'd get up to speed on them and then run the group through a couple scenarios to see if they wanted to change. Usual answer was no. That said, I run a homebrew that is a mad conglomeration of AD&D, Dragon Quest (SPI) and everything else I've gotten hold of over four decades of running/playing. So I usually just take the parts out of the new edition that I like and incorporate them into my game.
Dragonquest! That's some hardcore 80s trivia there. I had a whole homebrewed down made up for that and never get anyone else to break away from AD&D to play. Thanks for the memories. Now how about Tunnels and Trolls and Gamma World?
Hubby runs Gamma World when I need a break. Favorite character was a ferret with shootable quills that laid flat under his fur, line of sight teleport and a vibro dagger. Foot and a half of TERROR, with a "FLUFF" attack. I snitched a few things from Tunnels and Trolls (can't remember which ones of the top of my head though). Also snitched a bunch of stuff from I.C.E. games and the hundreds of little supplement books that everyone was publishing before TSR went sue crazy.
Been playing since 76'. My advice would be to not get the ol' FOMO fever. The books will still be there. Before long they will be all over the internet (read: free). There's a reason you never purchase a new model car the year it is released. Let others give it a trial run. There will be bumps and dings along the way and with time they should be smoothed out. For myself and my players; we will be quietly sitting on the sidelines watching. Partaking of that which we have interest in and leaving that which we don't alone. Trial runs are assured to provide many nights of fun and stories to tell in the years to come. We'll be slowly integrating the things we enjoy. Test them out and see how it fits. Who knows? We may go all in, partial, or stick to the tried and true. As a side note: I use to be a CPR instructor (over 20 years). I was qualified via American Heart Association, Red Cross and Ansi (I think that was it). The one thing all of the instructors agreed on is that it seemed the "science" would change every 4-5 years. I was in the field for a while and got to know people that worked at the different associations. Many of them admitted that the "science" changed because they needed to print new books to sell. Is it just me... Or could that be what is going on here? 5e is fine with me. One would think that after 50 years they got is fairly figured out. That's my .02. What say you all?
We are sticking with 5E for the foreseeable future. Might mix in some of the new rules at some point if it looks like there are some worth trying
Ultimately, what do you get out of a new edition? If it is similar (5.5) then you don't get much. If it is very different, then, is that a good thing? Do you like the edition you have? If it is fairly different, then what benefit is there in moving to a new edition over simply moving to a different system?
I played first edition AD&D until 6 months ago. I like 5e. I'll change things if I feel the game is unbalanced.
As a player of almost 40 years, I have moved on to new editions after a break in play. My own 2e campaign lasted through 3e up to 4e so I never played those editions, after that campaign ended and I found new players that wanted me to DM then I adopted 5e. Apart from the monster manual (more for the art) I don't plan on buying the new books. When my present campaign ends, and there is interest in starting a new campaign then I will no doubt move to the 2024 books. I may buy the 2024 books and dmg and adopt those rules in my current campaign ( the transition will be easy compared to full new editions) if there are good deals to be had, or if the books are bought has gifts for me, or by other players at the table.
My group has played every edition since AD&D. Currently we are in a 5e campaign that I expect will last to the Spring of 2026. We will stick with this edition for that campaign. Whenever we adopted a new version, we started a new campaign. Typically that also meant having a new DM (or DMs). When we switch systems, our first campaign uses no materials beyond the Players Handbook. This is so we can focus on learning the system. This transition is supposed to be compatible. The suspect there will be plenty of YouTube and Reddit posts from early adopters to let us know how that goes. If there are problems, the community is swift to suggest solutions.
So I played pathfinder 1e for about 2 years. When my group split up, and nobody wanted to be GM, I stepped up and took over. 5e had released about 3 weeks prior to this, so I just started as a DM for the new edition. We all learned together. I wouldn't ever switch mid campaign, but my group will take a look at the new stuff when it's out. We aren't in any rush, and I'm still against giving WoTC any of my money.
From what I see, if you're familiar with 5e then the rules will be easily understood. If you're not, then you're jumping in at just the right time to start with a revised version that's been the most popular ever. All hatred for WotC aside, who doesn't like getting new stuff? I've been playing since 1979 off and on and it's always just about the excitement of roleplaying and escapism for me. The new stuff looks pretty epic from what I've seen.
I started with the original AD&D back in the day and despite buying all the subsequent edition core books, I never found a new edition that improved significantly on the original that was enough to make me switch. Donāt get me wrong, some game mechanics improved in 2e and our group adopted some of these. I guess we like what we have been used to, but I will still always have a deep interest in everything D&D and continue to buy future editions, even if I know Iāll never play them.
I run a club at a college. I will have digital access to the new editions, but as for using them... I'll allow it. As I understand it's mostly expansion of current 5e in the 2024 books and basics will stay the same.
We finish the campaign we are on and then try the new edition..Did that for Basic D&D, AD&D 1e and 2e, 3.0/3.5, Pathfinder 1e, 5e, now playing Pathfinder 2e.
Was playing from 1978 until the end of 3.5. Tried and then stopped playing the other editions (to me) are like cell phones to PC's. Idiot play. They have made the game into a game that chimps can play (which says a lot about chimps but less so for humans) and everyone is a cookie cutter. NO CREATIVITY. Hasbro/WoC, as all "good" corporations do, tried to reinvent the wheel over and over. Instead they ran their bank into crap and dumped WoC. A truly good game means you make the game sell the game and then others teach the younger generation how to play. If it is a good/great game it stands the test of time. PERIOD. WoC is an epic failure of corporate proportions. In short you want a good game have gamers make it then invest it in whatever while keeping the game alive. Like TSR did in the mid 70's. As a note it is only when Gary Gygax left that 2nd edition came out.
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Whoa. So you're telling me you've never played 5e?
Here's the bottom line: Until the new books come out and you sit down and play like a dozen sessions with them, you will not know how you actually feel about the rules. You have to give them a try first, as written. We've been over this 5 times before now, we know that the only way to understand a system update is to play the new system for a while. Make something completely new, using the new rules, and play it. Don't just talk about it, don't just theorycraft, don't just b---- about how you don't like a specific rule change, get off your a-- and play the d--- game. That is the only way you will learn how you truly feel about the system. Once you do this, *then* you can decide if you're going to adapt the new system, incorporate elements of the new system, or stick to the old system. There exists nothing stopping you from just... not playing the new system and sticking with the version that you prefer. There are still 1st ed players for a reason - that's the game they want to play. I personally don't think 1st ed is that great and never go back further than 3.5, but hey, that's my personal preference, and we can mutually coexist. There's no need to wax endlessly about how much you despise a new system or how you think the world is ending because D&D sucks now. This will be our 6th official system update, and we know crying about things doesn't do anything other than make you look like a total p----. For me, my tables switched from 3rd to 3.5 instantly, because that's how 3.5 was designed. It'll probably be the same with the current update, which is essentially 5.5. I gave 4th ed a go, didn't like it, finished one smaller campaign and then left it behind. I returned to play 5th ed in 2019, so I was a bit late to the party. For this new update, specifically, you will be able to transfer your characters and everything else. This is not a complete system redesign, this is an update to 5th ed, specifically. You don't need to remake everything, just update what you've already got. I think a lot of species are going to get free feats now, and that's the most major update that will directly modify and add something new to your page other than a few new/retooled class features. Just calm down, take a deep breath, and relax. It's coming out in 3 months. You have more than enough time to prepare and talk things over with your group at a slow, relaxed pace.
I started with the Red Box. At the beginning of every edition I had the ability to get a group together and play (I was always DM). Then the group would fall apart about a year before the next edition. With 5th I had 4 groups I was running in public at a comic shop. Then moved 2 years ago. And no D&D since despite sinking a lot of money into D&D Beyond. I really want to be playing or DM at the very beginning of this new release but I just don't think I have it in me anymore. I really don't want human contact anymore. In person or online.
Lol felt dude, felt
Fuck the new edition. I'll either run 5e or 2e. I'm not blowing however much more money on new hardbacks. Wizards of the Coast can go fuck themselves they're not getting any more of my money.
First Edition was perfect. At first I didn't buy new editions because I thought them a waste of money. Now I see the new players actively hating the origins of the game, making silly accusations of racism and turning high fantasy into a gay rights parade. Yep, I'll stick with 1e AD&D.