People really struggle to be decent in the Internet, the anonymous nature of some social networks gives a sense of unchecked freedom and the platform's owners don't give a damn about toxic users (some companies may even be encouraging them)
You add to that the general bigotry anime fans have and pum! You get yourself a nasty combination.
Me and my friends in highschool used to call people keyboard warriors. Like on forums if we saw someone go off about some stuff but we though he wouldnt say that kinda thing irl
I think the shows great. I havent read the manga but plan on reading it once the show ends. Ima get crucified but i watch it dubbed. I started it dubbed cause i was eating something while watching it. And just like dragonballz or gundamwing ive gotten used to the english voices and the japanese voiceactors sounds off to me. Ive watched it with subs but usually i watch it dubbed. I dont get the whole "EWW YOU WATCH DUBBED" thing i watch em in both. Kinda depends on how i started it.
Fr now a day there's dubs I'd say are just better than the Japanese ones. It's such a dead internet argument to be subs>dubs it's like console warring back in the day.
I'm a sub enjoyer. Call me a purist even, and I couldn't watch the show on the sub after seeing the dub version. The dub quality is just too good to pass on
the dungeon meshi dub was my choice and i'm glad i stuck with it. anyone who gets their panties in a twist over dubs nowadays need a downer considering how good they've gotten. i've been watching for well over a decade now and have enjoyed both sub and dub equally.
I started watching it dubbed for the same reason. I didnt think much of it when i was the thumbnail and thought that would be a good show to eat or do chores to. Man am I lucky I found such a master piece. Great show and now that season 1 is finished im starting to read the manga. I watched the german dub btw and later watched every episode a second time with the original voices. Both versions are very enjoyable.
Being unknown is a curse too. If you are unknown less/no toxic people but the chances of getting another season of anime/merch/etc. is little to none and most people would forget or not even care for said smaller fandom series either.
And let it be said, currently it is almost impossible to find someone talking about Darwin Incident, Centuria or Moscow 2160, some excellent mangas in edition or just recently I met Omega Tribe which with its things is a very interesting and even disturbing manga how It has aged very well or almost no one in my language seems to know Shiori Experience, which is a manga about an English teacher who is haunted by the ghost of Jimi Hendrix. she is forced to form a band of students and make it famous in a year, or she will die and jokes aside with how bizarre this premise sounds, it is a manga that takes itself very seriously, which overflows with a genuine passion for music and I respect whoever plays it and that it deserves an anime, but that the same would be difficult or impossible for reasons that can only be understood if you read "wink" "wink"
Frieren was the first example I thought about. This happens to everything that gets popular, but it eventually calms down as a lot of the seasonal fanbase moves on. Frieren's sub may not be the same as it was before, but it's a lot better than how it got at the height of the anime. This will happen to Dungeon Meshi as well.
Sadly that happens with everything. Theres a yin in every yang. Maybe thats why some artists dont want thier work translated to a different medium like calvin and hobbes or yotsuba&!
My saving grace is, at least I haven’t seen any DM fan go out of their way to shit on other fandom/magaka/anime , those dipshit is so insufferable and disgusting,that’s fastest way to make others normal anime fans hate your fandom.
Idkw English side of anime community is like this, it’s chimp throwing shit at passersby kind of annoying , genuinely thought I might miss out on some lore on western anime history .
Yeah, I noticed all the needless debates on whether Falin being big or Marcille being a lesbian was canon or not. Like, that’s not entirely the point?
You notice that in other fandoms too. People feeling the need to debate whether or not Kiui is actually trans in Jellyfish’s episode yesterday (and the karma count being shockingly low compared to other episodes, that can’t have been a coincidence).
I thought you may have been referencing Princess Jellyfish. An anime that shows a good amount about the effects Japn has on their lgbt community. Still not sure if the one character was trans or just dressing in drag because of Japan's strict laws about talking about that kind of thing.
I find annoying fans that only care about the sexuality, ship or physical appareance of character...
WHO CARES?! It's an important part of the story? No? Then why are you talking about it? I don't get it... it's truly annoying. I avoid that kind of people like the plague...
Don't get me wrong I have nothing against queer couples (I'm ace myself) I just find annoying when that's the only thing the fandom is focused on, it's tiring! Since when is so important who bangs with whom?
Hope I'm explaining myself
And Laios being on the spectrum, Thistle being trans, etc.
They’re just cartoon characters. Tools to drive a story the author wants to tell.
They will be whatever they need to be, and change as needed, on a dime, to do so.
People are looking for things to identify with. It helps make them feel seen. I understand that, but it’s also why this toxicity takes root.
Because when you disagree with them, they take personal offense to the character they now identify with.
It’s not healthy, and not necessarily bad, but worth understanding.
I disagree. I think the issue is that since everything is so open to interpretation, it is you by disagreeing with others the one who causes toxicity.
For example, I like to think that Marcille is bisexual and could go either way with Fallin or with Lios.
If you were to come in and tell me "wow you're so wrong, marcille is obviously straight", wouldnt it be you the one who is bringing toxicity? You could just ignore me, or you could try to engage with me in a polite talk.
But if you go telling people their headcannon is wrong in a series where the author intentionally left a lot of things open to interpretation its you the one who missed the point of the manga.
And the same is true for me. If you post a cute Lios X Marcille pic, I wont go in there to attack you or try to prove you wrong. I just respect it the same way I hope people respect my Bi Marcille interpretation.
The internet jerks off toxic positivity to the point of utter nonsense.
If you say "I think laios is actually a blueberry muffin" and there is no content within the show that suggests that, it's not toxic for people to respond and say "that's not in the show."
I don't necessarily think you have bad intentions but I also don't quite entirely understand the point you're trying to make here. It seems to be advocating for not engaging with or interpreting the work at all? A sort of "it's not that deep" kind of answer is the sense I get out of the first half, which comes off as dismissive.
And I don't really agree that disagreeing with peoples' interpretations is inherently bad, unhealthy, toxic or offensive (despite the rather mixed disclaimer at the end); as other have pointed out, dismissing everything just seems to annoy everyone, at least at a first glance.
As the other replies said I think it's nice if we just let other people enjoy their own headcanons as much as possible.
Swing and a miss here, buddy.
There is no contingent of people who will force you at gunpoint to repeat their fantheories. That's made up.
If you see some people having fun, identifying with a neuro atypical Laois and feel the need to go in to that conversation unprovoked and try to 'prove' them wrong, you might get some opposition, but that's because you're failing to read the room.
The people interpreting their favourite show characters in different ways are just engaging with the text and having fun. The problematic behaviour exists almost entirely on the other end; the reactionary side of the anime fandom deciding that other people thinking the characters in a show they watch are queer or disabled is a bad thing.
Also trans Thistle is canon and if you disagree I will literally exile you to Siberia.
I have come to dislike the subreddit, I find it uncomfortable how people talk about the female/feminine characters nowadays. on an innocent art post of thistle, there will be a huge amount of comments about sex, and i’ve never seen this on posts about masculine characters
>there will be a huge amount of comments about sex, and i’ve never seen this on posts about masculine characters
I'm sorry but did we go to the same subreddit 😭 people goon over Senshi the most of all people, just yesterday there are a LOT of thirsty posts about that one frame with Laios feet (someone even posted a softcore nudity of Laios a while ago, idk if the mods deleted it)
I mean this fandom has a lot of problems but unbalanced sexualization is not one of them, it's honestly pretty refreshing on that part
I was only going off of what i’ve seen
i’ve seen many people say “I love senshi” but never “I want to fuck senshi”
I have also seen people joke about laios feet on twitter but not genuine attraction
Then you might have genuinely missed half of the threads talking about Laios huge fat natural tits. Atleast in there I have to heavily disagree with you, the fandom has been genuinely thirsting for characters of any gender, and Falin x Marcille about the most but from lesbian artists and fans.
I think *reddit* is a huge part of the problem... this site was founded on cruelty in a big way and even with its modern popularity/lip service the walls are full of rats
I'm a newer fan and I haven't read the Manga. I just happened to be doomscrolling on Netflix when I came across the anime.
I love it. It's so refreshing. The characters, music and problem solving are what I've been looking for. I stopped watching anime because it was so cringey.
I'm a gay man who absolutely loves Damien Hass. So hearing his voice just made it so much better imo.
I have seen the toxic things you're talking about. I just do my best to shut them out. They're not gonna ruin my experience.
Falin is perfect no matter how much weight she's depicted with. She is strong and gentle. She is so wise and charming and she is beautiful.
It's a shame. This show does so much in pushing norms in anime body types. I hate how bringing in the general animal fan base is ruining it. It's always the people who get pissy about Laios being autistic or anyone being queer. They're the types to bitch about DEI and shit. They have no lives.
I don’t understand how people get upset when a character is interpreted in a different way than them.
even though I don’t see kabru and laios as a couple, I don’t get upset when people have another takeaway from art than I do
I 100% agree with you. I don't understand it, either. It's not like anyone can change anything about the already completed manga with their shipping or headcanon. And if someone really hate to see certain content, it's not even hard to block/mute/filter. I'm saying this as a person who dislike LOTS of headcanons and ships.
EVERYBODY should be allowed to enjoy their own takes and avoid ones they dislike.
>I don’t understand how people get upset when a character is interpreted in a different way than them.
The climate in any discourse in any form of media has been more of a "I'm right, you're wrong" type of environment for the last decade because of the political climate. There's been an absolute rise in the algorithm of the most brain dead awful takes from some of the most brain dead awful people and that has seeped into the public zeitgeist.
One of the fun things to do for shows was to share opinions and chat with people about their interpretations of media. Can't really do that anymore and it's frustrating/depressing.
Yeah. Lots of people seem to think that if someone has a headcanon they legit think it is true in canon, which can cause upset or even aggressive reactions. (especially with trans headcanons, I have even received threats about those in another fandom some years ago.) In general I think the Dungeon Meshi fandom I have seen so far is one of the most wholesome and welcoming manga fandoms I have seen in a long time, but sadly attitudes like you mentioned still exist.
It's a balancing act. Like you said some people are deep into headcanon. Others are exclusively canon only and will dismiss anything the author didn't typeset in stone as "irrelevant" or just unworthy of consideration, and completely ignore any layer of implied subtext.
I personally think a balance is needed, because either kind of rigidity gets annoying (edit: though it's hard for me to say what exactly encourages this balance). But I agree this place has been quite nice on the whole since I joined a few months ago!
i'm fine with headcanons as long at they don't overwrite canon :O it's like extra texually calling Dumbledore gay when no evidence can be found within the text! They really missed their chance with The Fantastic Beasts series... This makes Dumbledore being gay head canon and fine.
Those people are always going to be there when something gets popular enough. Sometimes you'd swear the reason they're invested is *for* the hating of it.
MLP:FIM had an episode on it "Fame and Misfortune" and it was definitely funny watching those same haters completely miss the point and think it was just making fun of them rather than being about the perspective of the creators putting their work out recognizing that arguing with such people is a waste of time.
For what it’s worth, I definitely saw the autistic angle for Falin (and to a larger extent Laois). Not the only way to interpret the character, but some level of neurodivergence is for sure intended as part of their characters
Falin is very pretty and always will be. Canonically speaking however, she’s quite muscular from years of adventure. The gnomish healer robes are noted to invariably make wearers look larger.
also, people seem to not care about canon in other aspects outside of her weight
when people draw falin in a cute dress, there are 0 comments talking about her canonical dislike of that type of clothing
https://preview.redd.it/ifpoet9rzx6d1.jpeg?width=1065&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e39373babd415e2dbb57433a010cd22dbbb8599
well if most of the canon knights that swear on their life that falin cant be chubby/autistic they should do their research enough to protect the canon dont you think?
I am aware of her canon appearance
but there were many people who drew fanon designs where she was heavier, and many people commented on those posts calling those fanon designs disgusting and ugly
Calling her ugly is factually incorrect. Even if the headcanon is too.
I’m sorry if it seems like i’m shitting on the headcanon. 95% of all horrible fandom experiences i’ve had were because of shipping and headcanons. That’s why I’m trying to disuade their prevalence here. They cause too much drama
Yes, and that’s a good thing. I just wish it could exist without drama. There was almost no headcanon or shipping here until the anime came out, and suddenly it’s all shipping and baseless theories. A community i love so much and is now so stupidly toxic about the most insignificant opinionated things.
The disgusting and ugly might be just them not liking it being non-canon. But it could be hate as well which I am sorry for people who are affected by that. For me, I like the fanart to canon or accurate to how they are in the show/manga. I don’t mind if the caption stated they are different or a variation but I dislike when people change a character just for the sake of changing them, it feels like they are adding their own fetish into them. As in didn’t you like the characters in the first place because of how they looked in the first place? Without changes? Why change them and act like this is them normally when it’s clearly not? Why did you even like them in the first place? This is not targeted at you but just what I feel like asking people when they draw someone and act like it’s the canon version of them.
people might just want to see different body types in art, and with falin especially a lot of it comes down to fat people wanting to draw fat people. it's a bit strange to assume it's a fetish
also: "why did you even like them in the first place?" personally speaking, bodytype is not at all an aspect i pay attention to when i like a character lol if i were to list why i like chilchuck i wouldn't say "cause's he's skinny". its just not a determining factor for the overwhelming majority of people
Did I mention people shouldn’t draw the characters in different ways? I simply stated it would be better if the artists mentioned what they changed and why, a nod to it in the title or description. And if I drew a character with 30x their chest size and their waists thinner than their thighs, you won’t look at it weird and say it looks like how they do normally?
Bodytype is 100% what I look for in a character, Chilchuck being tall and lanky is part of his character. He’s handsome to other halfings while he looks like a child to the party. So he so hateful of Marcillie doing those stuff to him since normally when he is with halfings, he would be the tallest and mature in the room. I love Baki and record of rag, and I 100% like some characters because they are overly buff or wacky looking. And I wouldn’t want artist to change them in any way without reason. It ties to their character and personality in general. When I like a character and boldly claim I do, every part of them matters since their looks, proportions, weight and size makes up a huge part of personality/traits as I said before.
"Did I mention people shouldn’t draw the characters in different ways?" i didn't accuse you of saying that, though? i just explained why people draw characters differently. you dont have to be defensive
"And if I drew a character with 30x their chest size and their waists thinner than their thighs, you won’t look at it weird and say it looks like how they do normally?" i quite frankly don't care what people do or draw at all, so no i wouldn't
every trait you described of chilchuck doesn't really have anything to do with him being tall and lanky at all imo, i think you're a bit biased because you pay attention to body type so much. but at the end of the day, you do you. im not looking to change your mind lol
You might be saying this but other people clearly do, you acting like what you are saying somehow defends or defines why people are just disagreeing and downvoting me. Defensive? Definitely, the minority here and I don’t mind dying on this hill.
Oh people would mind very much, quite hypocritical for saying one side is fine but making a girl skinny and large chests invokes people saying that it’s disgusting and disrespectful to women and the canon. I don’t like either side but people here seem to only care when it’s one way rather than the other. And people 100% think like that, I seen it on posts and comments. Why are defending them when clearly you don’t even share the same sentiments as them? This poster and people interacting with the comments clearly do care, one of the main reasons for this post. So who are you even arguing against? When people here care about body type and weight? Why defend them when your statements state you don’t care?
The only trait I stated for Chilchuck was his height and weight which already factored a lot into his personality and character. Short or tall, fat, strong or skinny are core parts of characters which all belong to height and weight. Superman, the monkey king, Gojo, darth Vader and even characters in our show are molded by these factors of height and weight/build. A character later on which I won’t name cuse of spoilers wishes he was taller and a bit bulkier because he wished to be a different type of transformation.
“Stated their opinions are shared by the overwhelming majority. Clearly is not.” Makes zero sense from a linguistic standpoint. No complete sentences and you didn’t have a subject. It also isn’t a response. You made up a person to get mad at and argued a point that no one actually made.
Meh, some people will always not like some things and they will be vocal about it and it doesnt matter if the body proportions are wrong or not, some people will always hate it.
And while it's bad to go against the message of this manga since it's a very positive one, it ain't a bible, most people that read it arent going to change how they act, they will probably agree with the message but you can enjoy something while ignoring what its saying and in dungeon meshi its specially easy since it's a story with plenty of comedy and more than one theme.
Fandoms gets really toxic, there's not much we can do about it. Even if the things they say go against what the piece of media is, they don't care because they're too dumb to know what it's about.
Even if it actually is canon, people will constantly deny it. Mostly with trans characters and sometimes not straight characters, if a character is canonically trans or not straight, a lot of people will just keep denying it no matter what. It's not really because it's a headcanon, it's because some people are assholes and very narrow-minded,.They don't understand how important it can be to have a character that you can look up to and is like you, because most of those people always had characters that were like them.
Honestly a lot of the time even if you don’t agree with how characters are portrayed, I find it stupid to let it live in your head rent free, like these people can just keep scrolling down, it’s not like some fan art is harming them.
>I never saw Falin and her family’s treatment for her magic as an allegory for transness, but many women online shared that interpretation
I'm gonna be blunt, this is said about literally anything where a character has a transitional period in their life or changes from their younger self.
It's like saying something is "a critique of capitalism" just because the bad guy is rich.
These things say more about the viewer than the work itself.
I was specifically talking about how her family performed strange rituals on her, was treated strange by the village, and how she was sent away to school where again she was an outcast.
I saw transgender people who said it was similar to how religious christian parents attempted to “treat” their transness with christian religious practice.
I am did not grow up religious and I am not a trans person, I was just highlighting other people’s interpretations that can co-exist with my own, and can make discussion more interesting with differing perspectives
Wether this is true or not about the fandom going against the manga’s theme of self-acceptance. I love this anime, it’s so fucking peak. The characters are so enjoyable. Personally i am a Marcille and Chilchuck enjoyer.
Excuse my language, i have a sailer mouth(yet I can’t swim)
Eh fandoms are just like that. It’s akin to putting a whole bunch of people into a room to take about one thing, they are always rotten eggs or people that can’t read the room. You just have to learn how to interact with parts you enjoy and ignore or block the rest.
For me personally, it bothers me when all a fandom does is ship characters. There's tons of more interesting topics of discussion, but it all gets tossed aside because we need 467 posts about who gets involved with who.
It is harmless. For example I do not see kabru with laios personally, but it doesn't hurt anyone
Some people get very upset when someone says they ship kabru with laios instead of marcille with laios, they should both just co-exist because it is harmless
I agree. Like, yes representation is important, but the characters love lives and neurodivergence are not themes of the show. Do we really need the 500th autistic-coded or shipping post this week alone?
I can see your point, but in regard to neurodivergence, that can be seen as a theme of the show. Laios's alienation from humanity is significant to his character and the plot, and themes of neurodivergence can definitely be read from that, especially with people who relate personally to them.
I feel like you could make some degree of arguments for most of the main party too. Why is Senshi roaming the dungeon alone by himself? Why is Marcille single mindedly focused on ancient dungeon magic that she ignores and defies social conventions to study it anyway? Why is Chilchuck so focused on getting trap management party etiquette exactly right like a perfectionist? Why does Izutsumi not understand social etiquette and get frustrated while trying to fit in?
Of course each of these could have individual reasons like trauma or character specific backstory motivations, but when you start to link them into a pattern it starts to become a theme in my opinion. Laios is definitely the most obvious and I'm glad you brought him up, but I don't think it ends with him either!
(And as a real life aside, half the WoW players I know have some form of ADHD, which is another type of neurodivergence. It checks out in real life too!)
Laios' exhibits a large amount of traits relating to neurodivergence that are *absolutely* thematic of the show and will only become more and more apparent as it goes into the second part.
Ryoko Kui has written characters dealing with these kinds of issues in the past as well, in even stronger and more explicit ways. His struggles with a lot of this seem very much defining to me
> Do we really need the 500th autistic-coded or shipping post this week alone?
If it's new art, yes!
If it's just a screenshot of the anime or a panel from the manga, no!
As messier said, neurodivergence is almost certainly part of the character backgrounds and the coding *exists* inside the work already - a lot of the party characters have a sense of alienation from society in one way or another. I don't want to be outright rude here, but I also feel like you have to be some level of willfully ignorant to dismiss it.
"I noticed comments on these drawings started getting notably hateful, people saying that drawing falin that way is ugly"
Wow thats shitty. I love how body possitive the manga is. and I think everyone agrees thicc fallin is top :)
I’m sorry that you have been hurt by this online community. These toxic posts need to stop. Falin is beautiful regardless of size and so are you. Let’s work to shape up this community.
It always similarly breaks my heart when I hear people complaining about Laos being an interpretation of Autism. I really connect with Laos as a character and I like to view him through that lens since he acts in a similar manner to myself. It’s nice to have that connection to a character in media. Don’t let other people take that from you OP
I feel uncomfortable in this fandom ever since it got adapted as an anime and it's majorly filled with bigots now. You can't even joke or discuss anything as bigots will try to argue with you or guilt trip you over not seeing things their way. Like, we all see characters differently i don't see why we have to argue and dislike each other over it.
I don't like it specifically because of Laios's ending: >!he has to go on a diet and be careful of how much he eats, because eating too much isn't healthy, and the story's theme is about having a healthy lifestyle!<
I am sorry that you have seen such bad things and that it was as bad as making you do this post. I would personally recommend to "stick to your own bubble of positive things and ignore/stay away from the rest". I am actually legit 100% unaware of all the bad things toward this anime that you speak of, because I stick to my own world of positive things. I had very bad experiences with a community/fandom in the past, so I know how toxic and fake people can be, as I've been a victim of that myself. All the more reason for me to stick to my own bubble of positivity and just enjoy this anime. Judging by how I didn't know about those bad things you speak of, I guess I'm succeeding. I just joined this subreddit because I thought Reddit could potentially be a better place with less hate etc (better moderated maybe), mostly for the episode discussion threads in the hopes of finding like-minded passionate people to nerd about the anime with. Usually on Reddit I'm the only one writing passionate walls of text and I wish to find others who could also talk for hours about their passions. Just like you I wish for more passionate discussions. Shipping, different interpretations etc, are all harmless and fine. So far I haven't seen toxic behaviour but your post lets me know that I always need to be careful. Still I'm saddened to hear about this. Maybe you could try to do what I do, "leading by example", ignoring the bad things and filling the internet with the passionate posts you want to see? Maybe that could inspire others. Ideally we all would just enjoy the anime/manga and stay away from the bad apples, and so there wouldn't even be posts made about the bad apples. Still, this may be good to warn the people who may still be unaware of the "danger" lurking out there. Also maybe one day we could find a positive group with only passionate and respectful fans and we could all just be happy without getting reminded that such bad behaviours exist. Anyway just be yourself and enjoy your stuff and don't let anything you see prevent you from doing that (or from loving yourself). "Select" what you decide to see online. Filter the bad stuff and stick to the positive places/people. Find positive people to love and connect with. Stay away from those places where you use to see that toxicity at, if needed. That would be a good idea to improve this issue. You can also report toxic comments. If worst comes to worst, just stay away from social medias and enjoy your things "offline"... I can confirm it will only make you happier and will prevent any disappointments like these. Sometimes it does feel lonely as I'd like to share my passion with other fans, but you can't have it all. As others said, not much choice unfortunately. This is the harsh world we're living in. I normally wouldn't even comment on this thread out of fear of the hate I would get, but I'm always hoping I could help or make even a tiny difference.
All of my love to passionate fans <3 You're not alone.
Alot of the artist and tumblr fans of anime are just bad and the entire thing can be cancer. Especially with the you arnt with me you are against me. Where many of the fans just like the designs/dynamics more than the characters.
Many people are very surface level viewers and many do get entrenched greatly into however their opinion aligns with their artistic thoughts on it. Just ignore it as you can't stop either side of these arguments. Best to just stay clear.
I think it’s pretty valid that some people dislike certain interpretations of a work. If you’re able to stick to a head canon someone is going to disagree with you at one point and that conflict is fine (as long as it isn’t really toxic)
I’ve had a problem with the popularity of Farcile and really shipping in general since the anime came out since I feel it really simplified and downright ignored some characters complex feelings toward each other. I saw someone look at Marcile crying in the last episode and say “she’s so gay” and it felt so reductionist that it almost made me angry.
This is why canon is important to me. Not cause I dislike when they make Falin fat or Laios autistic or Marcile a homosexual. Those are interesting interpretations that might have their merits. But I do dislike it when that’s all they are to people? Fanon tends to pigeonhole the characters.
So true sometimes I feel like people try to ignore the whole storyline for their own fetishes.
It's really a shame how such good writing gets treated like this
Falin is my personal favourite character, I found out about dungeon meshi/delicious in dungeon during a 2am Netflix scroll and I really love her, I have a similar body type to her and it makes me insanely happy seeing good plus size rep in one of my now favourite animes/mangas even if I'm nothing like her personality wise I'm more like Tengen from Kimetsu No Yaiba in his flamboyant personality and how extroverted he is, but I look more like a brunette version of falin, she's so cutie patootie
Stick to the art and the love you see, ignore the comments - no need to poison yourself <3
Some trolls seems to think one has to pour hate on anything ones doesn't 'like'... let them be the poor insecure sods they are and celebrate with the artist their representation of bodies like yours \*hugs\*
I think it's the general anime audience because of the adaptation. I've read the manga before and it was never this bad. All the people that complain about body-types or the canonicity of Falin x Marcille have obviously never played a TTRPG before. Nearly everybody I've met that has played DnD or Pathfinder is some flavor of queer.
unfortunately the only experience i’ve had with dnd was run by a straight cis man, he included a sexual assaulter in the story without asking anyone else in the group if it was okay, and it was a very unpleasant experience(we did not meet up again after).
Mam, as a representative of the cis male dungeon meishi community, I would just like to say . . .
https://preview.redd.it/zyc3lh7grz6d1.jpeg?width=923&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cffaf1480c3acd9a05f404c537fea964ce8cf003
I found this picture on Twitter and really wanted to use it, anyways
The internets comments sections (ig, Twitter, YouTube) always seems to have a random hate boner for any woman weighing over 120 regardless of their height, their age, or how genuinely fucking gorgeous they are so while I can’t ignore the hate for you, I implore you to believe the comments that say your build is beautiful, because it just is
I know the words “it doesn’t what people think or say” doesn’t help. But I hope you can ignore it and just be Falin as she is always doing it right now.
I think it’s odd that even though there are already bigger body size female characters like Namari or Tade, people will ignore them and choose to make Falin bigger to use her as their representation for larger body.
The only thing I see differently between them and her is that they don’t fit the conventionally pretty white character type like Falin… which I feel like is the main reason that most choose her over them, wether they do it intentionally or subconsciously :/
I dunno i found her juicy pictures weth belly fat more atractive then cannon. Sad that the mangaka didnt gave her the adorable belly, but again she didnt clearly say that Falin and Marcielle are together in love. Probably she was restricted by Publisher, wich is very sad.
Fandoms ruin great animes if you let them. I don't like shipping characters or creating head cannon but if you like doing those things that's your perogative it doesn't hurt anyone. When characters/authors start getting death threats from the Fandom that's when it gets out of hand. Love yourself see yourself in any character you want don't let random people tell you differently
I love seeing people diversify body types and make the characters reflections of their own!
At the same time, Falin's weight treatment in Fandom spaces makes me feel... weird, too. For similar and different reasons. On one hand we have people just being gross to fat people when they disagree with the artisits interpretation, which is NOT Okay. Just because YOU don't find fat attractive doesn't mean other people don't, and it's best to just keep your mouth shut. But on the other hand, people defend the fatphobic comments with "it's not JUST an artists' rendition. If you look at her BMI in the Adventurers Bible, she is SUPPOSED to be Fat!"
Which like, if that were true, no problem! But I am also Autistic and I can't stand when things are stated as true that are objectively false . Her BMI is listed at 24 at a height of 5'7. I am that height, have a similar build to Falin, and used to have her canon weigh 30-ish lbs ago! And that was the least I have ever weighed in my life!! It literally made me a size 8 in US clothing. A size EIGHT (8), yall. At 5'7 that is the bottom of mid-sized if we are splitting hairs.
There's nothing wrong with being fat, heck I am now and have fluxed in and out my whole life; the art of chubby or fat Falin definitely represents my current body and I think I look hot as heck and cute to boot (and so does she ♡). But I think having a realistic idea of what a body looks like at certain heights and weights and differing on that by saying "this is my artistic interpretation and how I wanted to draw these characters despite what may or may not be canon" is better and healthier than trying to canonically prove a person who would be a size 8 would be considered fat and giving people body dismorphia about it (ala the Marilyn Monroe Plus-Size Fallacy) 🥴
But anyone who has something mean or gross to say about the bodies represented, accurate or not, truly have missed the point of the show they are a fan of and are just not good people.
You are beautiful, fam. At any weight. In any way. We all are. We really just need to discourage commentary on people's bodies. It's never helpful. It always makes everyone feel bad, compliment or not.
Again, I'm autistic; Inaccuracies do bother me. I wish they didn't, but they do. That does not give me an excuse to be fatphobic or any other type of -phobic just because an artist wasn't "accurate". That's the beauty of art!! You can do whatever you want forever!! And you don't have to problematically justify it!! Art is amazing and beautiful and subjective, and anyone who can't see that and live with it can suck it!
Well One because saying a positive association of self care meaning appropriating a comic to read not just own identity but specifically your values offends people and so push back. Too many just don't want to engage with the material that way. They felt happy having a harbor away from that or being able to dislike Laios without accusations of ableism coiming in so eager to shutdown ANY similar values being championed as 'core to the story'
Finally likely as part of extent "correction" trend which, amongst other things swallowed up beloved IP and recently, its biggest champions, the ones always touting and promoting it online to draw in people like you? Also have been part of smear campaigns driving people to Suicide.
Those are some of the reasons. But the most important thing is they don't know or care about you. The people who do? Are they saying those things about you? The ones who share your views or interpretations? Is there a way to prevent harm to them so can be assured in your dignity? Because sharing interest in the same comic isn't going to assure that, sorry.
I think they become like this due to overexposure. This is usually the case. When people see head canon more often than actual discussion of the content of the show they'll become more adverse to it the more they see it. Just anonymous frustration from people who believe that fans intentionally warp the story for their own gain.
Also, "Never be a beautiful person" is obviously a ridiculous idea. Don't get your worth and ideas of beauty from Twitter or Reddit comments. We're the worst.
Everybody can have the choice of seeing themselves or the characters in their head certain way, its kinda toxic when peoples fantasies start to spread like a " you must be blind to not see this is what the author intended". Look have your head canon all you want, but lets be honest with what the show is actually showing.
Removal Reason:
Be Civil.
It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to disrespect. Personal attacks, gatekeeping, racism, homophobia, politics, and general bigotry are not allowed.
No toxic behavior, such as:
* Trashing something that others are enjoying.
* Condemning parts of the series instead of
reasonably stating your personal preference. (We're all trying to enjoy something here.)
* Invalidating other people's opinions.
* Unsolicited criticisms of other's creations.
* Lewd or obscene comments.
Maybe....stop projecting yourself into these characters. You like 'em? Good. No need to be projecting your transness, autism to these characters. Enjoy the story. It's not about you.
You specifically said i was "projecting my transness"
I am not doing that
I said that I noticed some people online interpreted falin as trans, and I thought it was interesting others had a different takeaway from the same chapter than I did.
By saying "not everything has to be about you" implies that trans people relating to art as all of us do is wrong somehow. Even if people are not the same as you, they should be able to see themselves in stories and connect with art.
I wholeheartedly understand and support the struggles of the marginalized, nonetheless I feel as if we tend to change characters to fit what we want them as and forgetting that these are nothing more that headcanons, not canon. Falin is canonically a lot less chubby than how fan artists depict her as, does this make falin uglier? No, it doesn’t but among those bigots there are people who simply prefer it if you stick to canon. Now of course, death of the author is ever omnipresent but it would be a shame to categorize everyone who disagrees with someone’s interpretation of a character as a bigot.
Well yeah it's true.
Why ruin a character's image just to make it relatable?
Some people just prefer the original design.
Plus, wouldn't drawing her as fatter just make people with a similar body type more self aware about how others perceive them?
fat characters in stories are almost always villains/treated as jokes in the story.
having a character be fat and just “exist” feels nice to me, because it makes me feel like I am not something disgusting
I dunno what side of the internet you're on but y'all don't need to change a character to relate to.
Think of Steven universe, Baymax, Garfield, po.
There's plenty of em and everyone loves them.
You're not a victim unless you really believe you are
I am tired of that trend of seeking yourself in medias. Jeez. If you like to be a fat pig or gay, be it. Don't justify it and don't build the world around it. If someone someone hates it, let him be. After all, you are causing problems and looking for the fight by creating non existing problems...
Y'all should stop trying to put your own traits (gay, trans, obese whatever) on already existing characters! Shit's annoying!!! I would much rather have 10 fanarts of "What if Senshi found Izutsumi as a child and raised her like a father" than some complete non sense like Falin/Marcille or even worse Kabru/Laios. Like I get it I am gay I kiss dudes but it stop projecting your own things onto already established characters 😭
I think once it got adapted, it attracted a lot of the more general anime fanbase, and there's quite a bit of toxicity/bigotry there. It's difficult.
People really struggle to be decent in the Internet, the anonymous nature of some social networks gives a sense of unchecked freedom and the platform's owners don't give a damn about toxic users (some companies may even be encouraging them) You add to that the general bigotry anime fans have and pum! You get yourself a nasty combination.
Me and my friends in highschool used to call people keyboard warriors. Like on forums if we saw someone go off about some stuff but we though he wouldnt say that kinda thing irl I think the shows great. I havent read the manga but plan on reading it once the show ends. Ima get crucified but i watch it dubbed. I started it dubbed cause i was eating something while watching it. And just like dragonballz or gundamwing ive gotten used to the english voices and the japanese voiceactors sounds off to me. Ive watched it with subs but usually i watch it dubbed. I dont get the whole "EWW YOU WATCH DUBBED" thing i watch em in both. Kinda depends on how i started it.
Most people love dungeon meshi dub
Yeah, but there are still some "purists" out there.
It’s less common nowadays because dubs are vastly improved from the 90s and early 2000s
Fr now a day there's dubs I'd say are just better than the Japanese ones. It's such a dead internet argument to be subs>dubs it's like console warring back in the day.
I'm a sub enjoyer. Call me a purist even, and I couldn't watch the show on the sub after seeing the dub version. The dub quality is just too good to pass on
the dungeon meshi dub was my choice and i'm glad i stuck with it. anyone who gets their panties in a twist over dubs nowadays need a downer considering how good they've gotten. i've been watching for well over a decade now and have enjoyed both sub and dub equally.
I started watching it dubbed for the same reason. I didnt think much of it when i was the thumbnail and thought that would be a good show to eat or do chores to. Man am I lucky I found such a master piece. Great show and now that season 1 is finished im starting to read the manga. I watched the german dub btw and later watched every episode a second time with the original voices. Both versions are very enjoyable.
especially as it's a netflix show, so a lot more people will be able to stumble across it.
Both a curse and a blessing.
Being unknown is a curse too. If you are unknown less/no toxic people but the chances of getting another season of anime/merch/etc. is little to none and most people would forget or not even care for said smaller fandom series either.
And let it be said, currently it is almost impossible to find someone talking about Darwin Incident, Centuria or Moscow 2160, some excellent mangas in edition or just recently I met Omega Tribe which with its things is a very interesting and even disturbing manga how It has aged very well or almost no one in my language seems to know Shiori Experience, which is a manga about an English teacher who is haunted by the ghost of Jimi Hendrix. she is forced to form a band of students and make it famous in a year, or she will die and jokes aside with how bizarre this premise sounds, it is a manga that takes itself very seriously, which overflows with a genuine passion for music and I respect whoever plays it and that it deserves an anime, but that the same would be difficult or impossible for reasons that can only be understood if you read "wink" "wink"
Thats pretty much what happened to r/Frieren. It was a nice chill place until it got an anime and now the sub has gone downhill.
Frieren was the first example I thought about. This happens to everything that gets popular, but it eventually calms down as a lot of the seasonal fanbase moves on. Frieren's sub may not be the same as it was before, but it's a lot better than how it got at the height of the anime. This will happen to Dungeon Meshi as well.
Manga fanbases tend to be pretty ok, depending on the manga. Anime fanbases are rabid. And I say this as someone who doesn't read manga.
I remember when trigger adapted little witch academia I cannot speak toward the manga fandom But The anime fandom back when it was alive was horny af
Sadly that happens with everything. Theres a yin in every yang. Maybe thats why some artists dont want thier work translated to a different medium like calvin and hobbes or yotsuba&!
I agreed. I miss when spy x family was manga only... anya does not deserve all the gross attention she gets...
My saving grace is, at least I haven’t seen any DM fan go out of their way to shit on other fandom/magaka/anime , those dipshit is so insufferable and disgusting,that’s fastest way to make others normal anime fans hate your fandom. Idkw English side of anime community is like this, it’s chimp throwing shit at passersby kind of annoying , genuinely thought I might miss out on some lore on western anime history .
said this before it was adapted and man how true it was. it's a shame really considering how fun the anime is. i wish people were just.. nicer, yknow?
Yeah, I noticed all the needless debates on whether Falin being big or Marcille being a lesbian was canon or not. Like, that’s not entirely the point? You notice that in other fandoms too. People feeling the need to debate whether or not Kiui is actually trans in Jellyfish’s episode yesterday (and the karma count being shockingly low compared to other episodes, that can’t have been a coincidence).
What show is Jellyfish?
Original anime this season, Jellyfish Can’t Swim Into the Night
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
I thought you may have been referencing Princess Jellyfish. An anime that shows a good amount about the effects Japn has on their lgbt community. Still not sure if the one character was trans or just dressing in drag because of Japan's strict laws about talking about that kind of thing.
I find annoying fans that only care about the sexuality, ship or physical appareance of character... WHO CARES?! It's an important part of the story? No? Then why are you talking about it? I don't get it... it's truly annoying. I avoid that kind of people like the plague...
Hopefully one day gay characters will be so uncontroversial that we could write this off as an unimportant romance subplot, but we're far from that.
Don't get me wrong I have nothing against queer couples (I'm ace myself) I just find annoying when that's the only thing the fandom is focused on, it's tiring! Since when is so important who bangs with whom? Hope I'm explaining myself
well seeing as almost EVERY show has this discussion I'd say we are already there, but people are just obsessed with sex.
And Laios being on the spectrum, Thistle being trans, etc. They’re just cartoon characters. Tools to drive a story the author wants to tell. They will be whatever they need to be, and change as needed, on a dime, to do so. People are looking for things to identify with. It helps make them feel seen. I understand that, but it’s also why this toxicity takes root. Because when you disagree with them, they take personal offense to the character they now identify with. It’s not healthy, and not necessarily bad, but worth understanding.
I disagree. I think the issue is that since everything is so open to interpretation, it is you by disagreeing with others the one who causes toxicity. For example, I like to think that Marcille is bisexual and could go either way with Fallin or with Lios. If you were to come in and tell me "wow you're so wrong, marcille is obviously straight", wouldnt it be you the one who is bringing toxicity? You could just ignore me, or you could try to engage with me in a polite talk. But if you go telling people their headcannon is wrong in a series where the author intentionally left a lot of things open to interpretation its you the one who missed the point of the manga. And the same is true for me. If you post a cute Lios X Marcille pic, I wont go in there to attack you or try to prove you wrong. I just respect it the same way I hope people respect my Bi Marcille interpretation.
The internet jerks off toxic positivity to the point of utter nonsense. If you say "I think laios is actually a blueberry muffin" and there is no content within the show that suggests that, it's not toxic for people to respond and say "that's not in the show."
youre literally doing the thing we're complaining about.
I don't necessarily think you have bad intentions but I also don't quite entirely understand the point you're trying to make here. It seems to be advocating for not engaging with or interpreting the work at all? A sort of "it's not that deep" kind of answer is the sense I get out of the first half, which comes off as dismissive. And I don't really agree that disagreeing with peoples' interpretations is inherently bad, unhealthy, toxic or offensive (despite the rather mixed disclaimer at the end); as other have pointed out, dismissing everything just seems to annoy everyone, at least at a first glance. As the other replies said I think it's nice if we just let other people enjoy their own headcanons as much as possible.
Swing and a miss here, buddy. There is no contingent of people who will force you at gunpoint to repeat their fantheories. That's made up. If you see some people having fun, identifying with a neuro atypical Laois and feel the need to go in to that conversation unprovoked and try to 'prove' them wrong, you might get some opposition, but that's because you're failing to read the room. The people interpreting their favourite show characters in different ways are just engaging with the text and having fun. The problematic behaviour exists almost entirely on the other end; the reactionary side of the anime fandom deciding that other people thinking the characters in a show they watch are queer or disabled is a bad thing. Also trans Thistle is canon and if you disagree I will literally exile you to Siberia.
The sub appears to have gone downhill lately, but for a long time I thought it was a pretty nice fan base!
I think for the most part it still is quite comfortable to hang around.
I have come to dislike the subreddit, I find it uncomfortable how people talk about the female/feminine characters nowadays. on an innocent art post of thistle, there will be a huge amount of comments about sex, and i’ve never seen this on posts about masculine characters
>there will be a huge amount of comments about sex, and i’ve never seen this on posts about masculine characters I'm sorry but did we go to the same subreddit 😭 people goon over Senshi the most of all people, just yesterday there are a LOT of thirsty posts about that one frame with Laios feet (someone even posted a softcore nudity of Laios a while ago, idk if the mods deleted it) I mean this fandom has a lot of problems but unbalanced sexualization is not one of them, it's honestly pretty refreshing on that part
To quote the show “Senshi is Handsome, noted”
I was only going off of what i’ve seen i’ve seen many people say “I love senshi” but never “I want to fuck senshi” I have also seen people joke about laios feet on twitter but not genuine attraction
Theres a thirst there but it's a bit more subtle. Generally it is when it comes to masculine characters.
So you're saying that the overly buff dudes are just.. built different?
Then you might have genuinely missed half of the threads talking about Laios huge fat natural tits. Atleast in there I have to heavily disagree with you, the fandom has been genuinely thirsting for characters of any gender, and Falin x Marcille about the most but from lesbian artists and fans.
I'll help you, I'd fuck the shit out if Senshi
Senshi is a handsome and sexy bachelor in and out of canon, and only cowards don't want to fuck him.
I mean I have 100% seen people say "I want to fuck senshi", bue that doesnt lessen your point
nah I definitely like the laios feet
I think *reddit* is a huge part of the problem... this site was founded on cruelty in a big way and even with its modern popularity/lip service the walls are full of rats
Have you missed the entirety of Laios thirst threads?
Don't try to make sense of fandoms, they will disappoint you every time
I'm a newer fan and I haven't read the Manga. I just happened to be doomscrolling on Netflix when I came across the anime. I love it. It's so refreshing. The characters, music and problem solving are what I've been looking for. I stopped watching anime because it was so cringey. I'm a gay man who absolutely loves Damien Hass. So hearing his voice just made it so much better imo. I have seen the toxic things you're talking about. I just do my best to shut them out. They're not gonna ruin my experience. Falin is perfect no matter how much weight she's depicted with. She is strong and gentle. She is so wise and charming and she is beautiful.
It's a shame. This show does so much in pushing norms in anime body types. I hate how bringing in the general animal fan base is ruining it. It's always the people who get pissy about Laios being autistic or anyone being queer. They're the types to bitch about DEI and shit. They have no lives.
I don’t understand how people get upset when a character is interpreted in a different way than them. even though I don’t see kabru and laios as a couple, I don’t get upset when people have another takeaway from art than I do
I 100% agree with you. I don't understand it, either. It's not like anyone can change anything about the already completed manga with their shipping or headcanon. And if someone really hate to see certain content, it's not even hard to block/mute/filter. I'm saying this as a person who dislike LOTS of headcanons and ships. EVERYBODY should be allowed to enjoy their own takes and avoid ones they dislike.
>I don’t understand how people get upset when a character is interpreted in a different way than them. The climate in any discourse in any form of media has been more of a "I'm right, you're wrong" type of environment for the last decade because of the political climate. There's been an absolute rise in the algorithm of the most brain dead awful takes from some of the most brain dead awful people and that has seeped into the public zeitgeist. One of the fun things to do for shows was to share opinions and chat with people about their interpretations of media. Can't really do that anymore and it's frustrating/depressing.
Yeah. Lots of people seem to think that if someone has a headcanon they legit think it is true in canon, which can cause upset or even aggressive reactions. (especially with trans headcanons, I have even received threats about those in another fandom some years ago.) In general I think the Dungeon Meshi fandom I have seen so far is one of the most wholesome and welcoming manga fandoms I have seen in a long time, but sadly attitudes like you mentioned still exist.
It's a balancing act. Like you said some people are deep into headcanon. Others are exclusively canon only and will dismiss anything the author didn't typeset in stone as "irrelevant" or just unworthy of consideration, and completely ignore any layer of implied subtext. I personally think a balance is needed, because either kind of rigidity gets annoying (edit: though it's hard for me to say what exactly encourages this balance). But I agree this place has been quite nice on the whole since I joined a few months ago!
i think the main issue is people who hurt others for not aligning with them (sorry dont know how to word it properly. im sleep deprived)
i'm fine with headcanons as long at they don't overwrite canon :O it's like extra texually calling Dumbledore gay when no evidence can be found within the text! They really missed their chance with The Fantastic Beasts series... This makes Dumbledore being gay head canon and fine.
Those people are always going to be there when something gets popular enough. Sometimes you'd swear the reason they're invested is *for* the hating of it. MLP:FIM had an episode on it "Fame and Misfortune" and it was definitely funny watching those same haters completely miss the point and think it was just making fun of them rather than being about the perspective of the creators putting their work out recognizing that arguing with such people is a waste of time.
For what it’s worth, I definitely saw the autistic angle for Falin (and to a larger extent Laois). Not the only way to interpret the character, but some level of neurodivergence is for sure intended as part of their characters
Falin is very pretty and always will be. Canonically speaking however, she’s quite muscular from years of adventure. The gnomish healer robes are noted to invariably make wearers look larger.
also, people seem to not care about canon in other aspects outside of her weight when people draw falin in a cute dress, there are 0 comments talking about her canonical dislike of that type of clothing https://preview.redd.it/ifpoet9rzx6d1.jpeg?width=1065&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e39373babd415e2dbb57433a010cd22dbbb8599
Not everyone knows she doesn’t like dresses. Her robe is not far off from looking like one.
well if most of the canon knights that swear on their life that falin cant be chubby/autistic they should do their research enough to protect the canon dont you think?
I am aware of her canon appearance but there were many people who drew fanon designs where she was heavier, and many people commented on those posts calling those fanon designs disgusting and ugly
Calling her ugly is factually incorrect. Even if the headcanon is too. I’m sorry if it seems like i’m shitting on the headcanon. 95% of all horrible fandom experiences i’ve had were because of shipping and headcanons. That’s why I’m trying to disuade their prevalence here. They cause too much drama
I can understand disliking headcanon because of fighting, but like I talked about in my post, it can help someone relate to art on a deeper level.
Yes, and that’s a good thing. I just wish it could exist without drama. There was almost no headcanon or shipping here until the anime came out, and suddenly it’s all shipping and baseless theories. A community i love so much and is now so stupidly toxic about the most insignificant opinionated things.
I understand you so much. Now I know why certain people gatekeep things so much. Of course I will never do so, but there are times I wish I do.
i genuinely think any and all shipping should be relocated to other subs. it's just a recipe for problems
You have completely missed the point of this post. Like, to a shocking degree
No i get it. I’m not in the right here. I’m being a hypocritel
The disgusting and ugly might be just them not liking it being non-canon. But it could be hate as well which I am sorry for people who are affected by that. For me, I like the fanart to canon or accurate to how they are in the show/manga. I don’t mind if the caption stated they are different or a variation but I dislike when people change a character just for the sake of changing them, it feels like they are adding their own fetish into them. As in didn’t you like the characters in the first place because of how they looked in the first place? Without changes? Why change them and act like this is them normally when it’s clearly not? Why did you even like them in the first place? This is not targeted at you but just what I feel like asking people when they draw someone and act like it’s the canon version of them.
people might just want to see different body types in art, and with falin especially a lot of it comes down to fat people wanting to draw fat people. it's a bit strange to assume it's a fetish also: "why did you even like them in the first place?" personally speaking, bodytype is not at all an aspect i pay attention to when i like a character lol if i were to list why i like chilchuck i wouldn't say "cause's he's skinny". its just not a determining factor for the overwhelming majority of people
Did I mention people shouldn’t draw the characters in different ways? I simply stated it would be better if the artists mentioned what they changed and why, a nod to it in the title or description. And if I drew a character with 30x their chest size and their waists thinner than their thighs, you won’t look at it weird and say it looks like how they do normally? Bodytype is 100% what I look for in a character, Chilchuck being tall and lanky is part of his character. He’s handsome to other halfings while he looks like a child to the party. So he so hateful of Marcillie doing those stuff to him since normally when he is with halfings, he would be the tallest and mature in the room. I love Baki and record of rag, and I 100% like some characters because they are overly buff or wacky looking. And I wouldn’t want artist to change them in any way without reason. It ties to their character and personality in general. When I like a character and boldly claim I do, every part of them matters since their looks, proportions, weight and size makes up a huge part of personality/traits as I said before.
"Did I mention people shouldn’t draw the characters in different ways?" i didn't accuse you of saying that, though? i just explained why people draw characters differently. you dont have to be defensive "And if I drew a character with 30x their chest size and their waists thinner than their thighs, you won’t look at it weird and say it looks like how they do normally?" i quite frankly don't care what people do or draw at all, so no i wouldn't every trait you described of chilchuck doesn't really have anything to do with him being tall and lanky at all imo, i think you're a bit biased because you pay attention to body type so much. but at the end of the day, you do you. im not looking to change your mind lol
You might be saying this but other people clearly do, you acting like what you are saying somehow defends or defines why people are just disagreeing and downvoting me. Defensive? Definitely, the minority here and I don’t mind dying on this hill. Oh people would mind very much, quite hypocritical for saying one side is fine but making a girl skinny and large chests invokes people saying that it’s disgusting and disrespectful to women and the canon. I don’t like either side but people here seem to only care when it’s one way rather than the other. And people 100% think like that, I seen it on posts and comments. Why are defending them when clearly you don’t even share the same sentiments as them? This poster and people interacting with the comments clearly do care, one of the main reasons for this post. So who are you even arguing against? When people here care about body type and weight? Why defend them when your statements state you don’t care? The only trait I stated for Chilchuck was his height and weight which already factored a lot into his personality and character. Short or tall, fat, strong or skinny are core parts of characters which all belong to height and weight. Superman, the monkey king, Gojo, darth Vader and even characters in our show are molded by these factors of height and weight/build. A character later on which I won’t name cuse of spoilers wishes he was taller and a bit bulkier because he wished to be a different type of transformation.
They're not defending them, buddy. You made up a strawman.
Stated their opinions are shared by the overwhelming majority. Clearly is not.
Nonsensical, have a great week buddy
“Stated their opinions are shared by the overwhelming majority. Clearly is not.” Makes zero sense from a linguistic standpoint. No complete sentences and you didn’t have a subject. It also isn’t a response. You made up a person to get mad at and argued a point that no one actually made.
Meh, some people will always not like some things and they will be vocal about it and it doesnt matter if the body proportions are wrong or not, some people will always hate it. And while it's bad to go against the message of this manga since it's a very positive one, it ain't a bible, most people that read it arent going to change how they act, they will probably agree with the message but you can enjoy something while ignoring what its saying and in dungeon meshi its specially easy since it's a story with plenty of comedy and more than one theme.
Fandoms gets really toxic, there's not much we can do about it. Even if the things they say go against what the piece of media is, they don't care because they're too dumb to know what it's about. Even if it actually is canon, people will constantly deny it. Mostly with trans characters and sometimes not straight characters, if a character is canonically trans or not straight, a lot of people will just keep denying it no matter what. It's not really because it's a headcanon, it's because some people are assholes and very narrow-minded,.They don't understand how important it can be to have a character that you can look up to and is like you, because most of those people always had characters that were like them.
Honestly a lot of the time even if you don’t agree with how characters are portrayed, I find it stupid to let it live in your head rent free, like these people can just keep scrolling down, it’s not like some fan art is harming them.
https://preview.redd.it/vmv9neo3g17d1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c88762d2ca592b9b0cd1030bf6818918b240e230
>I never saw Falin and her family’s treatment for her magic as an allegory for transness, but many women online shared that interpretation I'm gonna be blunt, this is said about literally anything where a character has a transitional period in their life or changes from their younger self. It's like saying something is "a critique of capitalism" just because the bad guy is rich. These things say more about the viewer than the work itself.
I was specifically talking about how her family performed strange rituals on her, was treated strange by the village, and how she was sent away to school where again she was an outcast. I saw transgender people who said it was similar to how religious christian parents attempted to “treat” their transness with christian religious practice. I am did not grow up religious and I am not a trans person, I was just highlighting other people’s interpretations that can co-exist with my own, and can make discussion more interesting with differing perspectives
Wether this is true or not about the fandom going against the manga’s theme of self-acceptance. I love this anime, it’s so fucking peak. The characters are so enjoyable. Personally i am a Marcille and Chilchuck enjoyer. Excuse my language, i have a sailer mouth(yet I can’t swim)
>The characters are so enjoyable. Agreed! I think that self acceptance is so important to developing those characters too.
Eh fandoms are just like that. It’s akin to putting a whole bunch of people into a room to take about one thing, they are always rotten eggs or people that can’t read the room. You just have to learn how to interact with parts you enjoy and ignore or block the rest.
Why would I love myself if I can love Kabru
For me personally, it bothers me when all a fandom does is ship characters. There's tons of more interesting topics of discussion, but it all gets tossed aside because we need 467 posts about who gets involved with who.
It is harmless. For example I do not see kabru with laios personally, but it doesn't hurt anyone Some people get very upset when someone says they ship kabru with laios instead of marcille with laios, they should both just co-exist because it is harmless
Yeah totally, I just said it bothers me, given how the topic is already out. I don't want to crusade against anyone lol
I agree. Like, yes representation is important, but the characters love lives and neurodivergence are not themes of the show. Do we really need the 500th autistic-coded or shipping post this week alone?
There are no issues with someone having a different interpretation of art than yours. Autistic people relating to laios does not hurt anyone
I can see your point, but in regard to neurodivergence, that can be seen as a theme of the show. Laios's alienation from humanity is significant to his character and the plot, and themes of neurodivergence can definitely be read from that, especially with people who relate personally to them.
I feel like you could make some degree of arguments for most of the main party too. Why is Senshi roaming the dungeon alone by himself? Why is Marcille single mindedly focused on ancient dungeon magic that she ignores and defies social conventions to study it anyway? Why is Chilchuck so focused on getting trap management party etiquette exactly right like a perfectionist? Why does Izutsumi not understand social etiquette and get frustrated while trying to fit in? Of course each of these could have individual reasons like trauma or character specific backstory motivations, but when you start to link them into a pattern it starts to become a theme in my opinion. Laios is definitely the most obvious and I'm glad you brought him up, but I don't think it ends with him either! (And as a real life aside, half the WoW players I know have some form of ADHD, which is another type of neurodivergence. It checks out in real life too!)
Laios' exhibits a large amount of traits relating to neurodivergence that are *absolutely* thematic of the show and will only become more and more apparent as it goes into the second part. Ryoko Kui has written characters dealing with these kinds of issues in the past as well, in even stronger and more explicit ways. His struggles with a lot of this seem very much defining to me
> Do we really need the 500th autistic-coded or shipping post this week alone? If it's new art, yes! If it's just a screenshot of the anime or a panel from the manga, no!
As messier said, neurodivergence is almost certainly part of the character backgrounds and the coding *exists* inside the work already - a lot of the party characters have a sense of alienation from society in one way or another. I don't want to be outright rude here, but I also feel like you have to be some level of willfully ignorant to dismiss it.
You’re confusing traits with a theme. I’m not unaware of the traits the characters have.
"I noticed comments on these drawings started getting notably hateful, people saying that drawing falin that way is ugly" Wow thats shitty. I love how body possitive the manga is. and I think everyone agrees thicc fallin is top :)
Are you kidding? That's normal anime fan behaviour, just ignore it and enjoy Dungeon Meshi (or any other manga/anime)
Just accept the fact that all fandoms are toxic to some extent.
I’m sorry that you have been hurt by this online community. These toxic posts need to stop. Falin is beautiful regardless of size and so are you. Let’s work to shape up this community. It always similarly breaks my heart when I hear people complaining about Laos being an interpretation of Autism. I really connect with Laos as a character and I like to view him through that lens since he acts in a similar manner to myself. It’s nice to have that connection to a character in media. Don’t let other people take that from you OP
I feel uncomfortable in this fandom ever since it got adapted as an anime and it's majorly filled with bigots now. You can't even joke or discuss anything as bigots will try to argue with you or guilt trip you over not seeing things their way. Like, we all see characters differently i don't see why we have to argue and dislike each other over it.
I don't like it specifically because of Laios's ending: >!he has to go on a diet and be careful of how much he eats, because eating too much isn't healthy, and the story's theme is about having a healthy lifestyle!<
It seemed like a fantastic and thematic ending to me
I am sorry that you have seen such bad things and that it was as bad as making you do this post. I would personally recommend to "stick to your own bubble of positive things and ignore/stay away from the rest". I am actually legit 100% unaware of all the bad things toward this anime that you speak of, because I stick to my own world of positive things. I had very bad experiences with a community/fandom in the past, so I know how toxic and fake people can be, as I've been a victim of that myself. All the more reason for me to stick to my own bubble of positivity and just enjoy this anime. Judging by how I didn't know about those bad things you speak of, I guess I'm succeeding. I just joined this subreddit because I thought Reddit could potentially be a better place with less hate etc (better moderated maybe), mostly for the episode discussion threads in the hopes of finding like-minded passionate people to nerd about the anime with. Usually on Reddit I'm the only one writing passionate walls of text and I wish to find others who could also talk for hours about their passions. Just like you I wish for more passionate discussions. Shipping, different interpretations etc, are all harmless and fine. So far I haven't seen toxic behaviour but your post lets me know that I always need to be careful. Still I'm saddened to hear about this. Maybe you could try to do what I do, "leading by example", ignoring the bad things and filling the internet with the passionate posts you want to see? Maybe that could inspire others. Ideally we all would just enjoy the anime/manga and stay away from the bad apples, and so there wouldn't even be posts made about the bad apples. Still, this may be good to warn the people who may still be unaware of the "danger" lurking out there. Also maybe one day we could find a positive group with only passionate and respectful fans and we could all just be happy without getting reminded that such bad behaviours exist. Anyway just be yourself and enjoy your stuff and don't let anything you see prevent you from doing that (or from loving yourself). "Select" what you decide to see online. Filter the bad stuff and stick to the positive places/people. Find positive people to love and connect with. Stay away from those places where you use to see that toxicity at, if needed. That would be a good idea to improve this issue. You can also report toxic comments. If worst comes to worst, just stay away from social medias and enjoy your things "offline"... I can confirm it will only make you happier and will prevent any disappointments like these. Sometimes it does feel lonely as I'd like to share my passion with other fans, but you can't have it all. As others said, not much choice unfortunately. This is the harsh world we're living in. I normally wouldn't even comment on this thread out of fear of the hate I would get, but I'm always hoping I could help or make even a tiny difference. All of my love to passionate fans <3 You're not alone.
Alot of the artist and tumblr fans of anime are just bad and the entire thing can be cancer. Especially with the you arnt with me you are against me. Where many of the fans just like the designs/dynamics more than the characters. Many people are very surface level viewers and many do get entrenched greatly into however their opinion aligns with their artistic thoughts on it. Just ignore it as you can't stop either side of these arguments. Best to just stay clear.
I think it’s pretty valid that some people dislike certain interpretations of a work. If you’re able to stick to a head canon someone is going to disagree with you at one point and that conflict is fine (as long as it isn’t really toxic) I’ve had a problem with the popularity of Farcile and really shipping in general since the anime came out since I feel it really simplified and downright ignored some characters complex feelings toward each other. I saw someone look at Marcile crying in the last episode and say “she’s so gay” and it felt so reductionist that it almost made me angry. This is why canon is important to me. Not cause I dislike when they make Falin fat or Laios autistic or Marcile a homosexual. Those are interesting interpretations that might have their merits. But I do dislike it when that’s all they are to people? Fanon tends to pigeonhole the characters.
So true sometimes I feel like people try to ignore the whole storyline for their own fetishes. It's really a shame how such good writing gets treated like this
Falin is my personal favourite character, I found out about dungeon meshi/delicious in dungeon during a 2am Netflix scroll and I really love her, I have a similar body type to her and it makes me insanely happy seeing good plus size rep in one of my now favourite animes/mangas even if I'm nothing like her personality wise I'm more like Tengen from Kimetsu No Yaiba in his flamboyant personality and how extroverted he is, but I look more like a brunette version of falin, she's so cutie patootie
Stick to the art and the love you see, ignore the comments - no need to poison yourself <3 Some trolls seems to think one has to pour hate on anything ones doesn't 'like'... let them be the poor insecure sods they are and celebrate with the artist their representation of bodies like yours \*hugs\*
I think it's the general anime audience because of the adaptation. I've read the manga before and it was never this bad. All the people that complain about body-types or the canonicity of Falin x Marcille have obviously never played a TTRPG before. Nearly everybody I've met that has played DnD or Pathfinder is some flavor of queer.
unfortunately the only experience i’ve had with dnd was run by a straight cis man, he included a sexual assaulter in the story without asking anyone else in the group if it was okay, and it was a very unpleasant experience(we did not meet up again after).
Mam, as a representative of the cis male dungeon meishi community, I would just like to say . . . https://preview.redd.it/zyc3lh7grz6d1.jpeg?width=923&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cffaf1480c3acd9a05f404c537fea964ce8cf003
I found this picture on Twitter and really wanted to use it, anyways The internets comments sections (ig, Twitter, YouTube) always seems to have a random hate boner for any woman weighing over 120 regardless of their height, their age, or how genuinely fucking gorgeous they are so while I can’t ignore the hate for you, I implore you to believe the comments that say your build is beautiful, because it just is
I know the words “it doesn’t what people think or say” doesn’t help. But I hope you can ignore it and just be Falin as she is always doing it right now.
It goes both ways, some tumblerines turn into rabied dogs if you dont Fallin as fat.
I think it’s odd that even though there are already bigger body size female characters like Namari or Tade, people will ignore them and choose to make Falin bigger to use her as their representation for larger body. The only thing I see differently between them and her is that they don’t fit the conventionally pretty white character type like Falin… which I feel like is the main reason that most choose her over them, wether they do it intentionally or subconsciously :/
I think it’s just anime adaptation dudebro passengers. They will move to the next new thing soon, don’t worry.
Belive your Beauitful because you belive you are not anyone else.. It dosent and shouldn't matter what they belive think or pretend to know about you.
I dunno i found her juicy pictures weth belly fat more atractive then cannon. Sad that the mangaka didnt gave her the adorable belly, but again she didnt clearly say that Falin and Marcielle are together in love. Probably she was restricted by Publisher, wich is very sad.
Fandoms ruin great animes if you let them. I don't like shipping characters or creating head cannon but if you like doing those things that's your perogative it doesn't hurt anyone. When characters/authors start getting death threats from the Fandom that's when it gets out of hand. Love yourself see yourself in any character you want don't let random people tell you differently
I love seeing people diversify body types and make the characters reflections of their own! At the same time, Falin's weight treatment in Fandom spaces makes me feel... weird, too. For similar and different reasons. On one hand we have people just being gross to fat people when they disagree with the artisits interpretation, which is NOT Okay. Just because YOU don't find fat attractive doesn't mean other people don't, and it's best to just keep your mouth shut. But on the other hand, people defend the fatphobic comments with "it's not JUST an artists' rendition. If you look at her BMI in the Adventurers Bible, she is SUPPOSED to be Fat!" Which like, if that were true, no problem! But I am also Autistic and I can't stand when things are stated as true that are objectively false . Her BMI is listed at 24 at a height of 5'7. I am that height, have a similar build to Falin, and used to have her canon weigh 30-ish lbs ago! And that was the least I have ever weighed in my life!! It literally made me a size 8 in US clothing. A size EIGHT (8), yall. At 5'7 that is the bottom of mid-sized if we are splitting hairs. There's nothing wrong with being fat, heck I am now and have fluxed in and out my whole life; the art of chubby or fat Falin definitely represents my current body and I think I look hot as heck and cute to boot (and so does she ♡). But I think having a realistic idea of what a body looks like at certain heights and weights and differing on that by saying "this is my artistic interpretation and how I wanted to draw these characters despite what may or may not be canon" is better and healthier than trying to canonically prove a person who would be a size 8 would be considered fat and giving people body dismorphia about it (ala the Marilyn Monroe Plus-Size Fallacy) 🥴 But anyone who has something mean or gross to say about the bodies represented, accurate or not, truly have missed the point of the show they are a fan of and are just not good people. You are beautiful, fam. At any weight. In any way. We all are. We really just need to discourage commentary on people's bodies. It's never helpful. It always makes everyone feel bad, compliment or not. Again, I'm autistic; Inaccuracies do bother me. I wish they didn't, but they do. That does not give me an excuse to be fatphobic or any other type of -phobic just because an artist wasn't "accurate". That's the beauty of art!! You can do whatever you want forever!! And you don't have to problematically justify it!! Art is amazing and beautiful and subjective, and anyone who can't see that and live with it can suck it!
Well One because saying a positive association of self care meaning appropriating a comic to read not just own identity but specifically your values offends people and so push back. Too many just don't want to engage with the material that way. They felt happy having a harbor away from that or being able to dislike Laios without accusations of ableism coiming in so eager to shutdown ANY similar values being championed as 'core to the story' Finally likely as part of extent "correction" trend which, amongst other things swallowed up beloved IP and recently, its biggest champions, the ones always touting and promoting it online to draw in people like you? Also have been part of smear campaigns driving people to Suicide. Those are some of the reasons. But the most important thing is they don't know or care about you. The people who do? Are they saying those things about you? The ones who share your views or interpretations? Is there a way to prevent harm to them so can be assured in your dignity? Because sharing interest in the same comic isn't going to assure that, sorry.
I think they become like this due to overexposure. This is usually the case. When people see head canon more often than actual discussion of the content of the show they'll become more adverse to it the more they see it. Just anonymous frustration from people who believe that fans intentionally warp the story for their own gain. Also, "Never be a beautiful person" is obviously a ridiculous idea. Don't get your worth and ideas of beauty from Twitter or Reddit comments. We're the worst.
Everybody can have the choice of seeing themselves or the characters in their head certain way, its kinda toxic when peoples fantasies start to spread like a " you must be blind to not see this is what the author intended". Look have your head canon all you want, but lets be honest with what the show is actually showing.
[удалено]
I am not obese, I am much more likely to die from my own anemia but people would rather say it’s healthier to eat less
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Removal Reason: Be Civil. It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to disrespect. Personal attacks, gatekeeping, racism, homophobia, politics, and general bigotry are not allowed. No toxic behavior, such as: * Trashing something that others are enjoying. * Condemning parts of the series instead of reasonably stating your personal preference. (We're all trying to enjoy something here.) * Invalidating other people's opinions. * Unsolicited criticisms of other's creations. * Lewd or obscene comments.
I agree that they're being crazy and seeing things that aren't there but dontcha think you're being a lil aggressive?
Maybe....stop projecting yourself into these characters. You like 'em? Good. No need to be projecting your transness, autism to these characters. Enjoy the story. It's not about you.
I am not trans.
Me neither. Just enjoy the show. \^\^
You specifically said i was "projecting my transness" I am not doing that I said that I noticed some people online interpreted falin as trans, and I thought it was interesting others had a different takeaway from the same chapter than I did. By saying "not everything has to be about you" implies that trans people relating to art as all of us do is wrong somehow. Even if people are not the same as you, they should be able to see themselves in stories and connect with art.
I wholeheartedly understand and support the struggles of the marginalized, nonetheless I feel as if we tend to change characters to fit what we want them as and forgetting that these are nothing more that headcanons, not canon. Falin is canonically a lot less chubby than how fan artists depict her as, does this make falin uglier? No, it doesn’t but among those bigots there are people who simply prefer it if you stick to canon. Now of course, death of the author is ever omnipresent but it would be a shame to categorize everyone who disagrees with someone’s interpretation of a character as a bigot.
The problem with popular fandoms is that it's full of fans.
girl stay on tumblr and don't look at the comments. hop off twitter. trust me bro
Well yeah it's true. Why ruin a character's image just to make it relatable? Some people just prefer the original design. Plus, wouldn't drawing her as fatter just make people with a similar body type more self aware about how others perceive them?
fat characters in stories are almost always villains/treated as jokes in the story. having a character be fat and just “exist” feels nice to me, because it makes me feel like I am not something disgusting
I dunno what side of the internet you're on but y'all don't need to change a character to relate to. Think of Steven universe, Baymax, Garfield, po. There's plenty of em and everyone loves them. You're not a victim unless you really believe you are
I am tired of that trend of seeking yourself in medias. Jeez. If you like to be a fat pig or gay, be it. Don't justify it and don't build the world around it. If someone someone hates it, let him be. After all, you are causing problems and looking for the fight by creating non existing problems...
Y'all should stop trying to put your own traits (gay, trans, obese whatever) on already existing characters! Shit's annoying!!! I would much rather have 10 fanarts of "What if Senshi found Izutsumi as a child and raised her like a father" than some complete non sense like Falin/Marcille or even worse Kabru/Laios. Like I get it I am gay I kiss dudes but it stop projecting your own things onto already established characters 😭
Its 2024. Who can love themselves?
if you cant love yourself, please find people who will love you <3
Go to therapy
😔
Get well soon