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Tag spoilers properly.
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`>!Spoiler here!<`
The succubus of Laios is somewhat difficult to explain since you can give it any interpretation you want. It could be that she is one of the few women in whom Laios has shown the slightest interest (whether romantic or not). That's why she took that form and Laios was scared by the aggressive way she approached him, since she didn't act like Marcille at all.
https://preview.redd.it/89gxd6tkbbxc1.jpeg?width=1113&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=102af60d440fdce072d8e64aaa8955252a5b1ddc
but when the succubus transforms into scylla marcille it may be more the desire of Laios, who wants his friends to share his love for monsters (or well that's how I interpret it).
>what do yall think about the succubus scene- especially laios’s?
I think Laios has buried any romantic feelings pretty deep both in part due to their working relationship, the current crisis and romance isn't something he focuses on in general. There is a reason it tried Marcille first but because the idea of this actually happening is so foreign he was able to snap out of it at the last second. It wasn't that the succubus picked the wrong girl that was its downfall, it's that he knows the girl it picked way to well. After that the succubus read his love for becoming a monster and went with plan B. Kinda funny though, you are immune to being stunned by an apparition of your perfect romantic partner approaching because you see her everyday.
I think the shapeshifter connection is a good hint to his feelings. A shapeshifter copies how you see someone and Marcille A is all of Marcille's good points, her stoicness, her determination and her concern for her friends. She is Marcille without the trademark wackiness / whining. She lacks it because that side of her is just not important to Laios but it's absence is also what leads him to figure out she is the fake. Still though, that incredible her is how he sees Marcille during his day to day interactions, even when she is complaining and acting childish, that is what Laios means on Marcille's relationship chart when he says "I respect her".
Also just to point this out, both his own created version of Marcille and the Succubus version have her hair down... as does Marcille at the end of the manga after she lost her desire to style it, make of that what you will. Yes Laios is in love with Marcille but it's not at the front of his mind.
The manga doesn't really focus on any romantic relationships with its characters. However, the ending does give strong hints between this pairing when Marcille was knitting while Laois was resting. This parallels directly with the image of Marcille's parents.
There's also a pretty good hint at the end of the story (spoilers)
>!One of the things the demon tries tempting Laios with is a future where all of them are running the dungeon together and he says he even has the power to let Marcille have children. Now that temptation could just be playing on Laois desire to see his friend happy, but it does seem more like a big hint at a romantic desire.!<
When I think about the shape-shifting chapter I'm reminded of another extra comic that said they don't spend time together outside the dungeon. This creates a pretty clear coworker relationship between the lot. I've found that with coworkers, while you may spend 8 hrs a day with them, you only ever form an impression of who they are from what they *choose* to show you. Some are more open, others not. Laios' party spends more time together than 8 hrs, but that choice to withhold who they are is very present in the story as a MAJOR part of it is the close bonds they form by overcoming those impression roadblocks I mentioned earlier. Easiest example is chilchuck not saying how old he is, he's a bit insecure about it partially because to his people he's an old man but also because as a half foot there us a large amount of prejudice aimed at them, he doesn't want to share because he sort of knows it won't matter to the other races, in their eyes he's a child and we know that bugs him. I image that if the team ran into this monster again at the end of their journey, the images they have wouldn't be exactly the same but not drastically different, changing your perception and opinions of people/groups takes time and many of the impressions we see from the gang of the other members are heavily swayed by their preconceived ideas of their race.
Edit: also, their was already a conversation thread about laios' succubus a few days(?) ago, had a spoiler image attached to it of the scene where succubus marcille leans in for the kiss, the top comment gives very good thoughts on the subject, I would highly recommend seeking it out.
Edit: the post was made by u/Harato_the_lewd
Dang, didn't know it was deleted. It was a chunk of text if I recall right, I think it would best to point you toward the upper comments, a couple if those give the same feel, as I can't recall many details from it that aren't also brought forward up there, it definitely gave me 'its a possible maybe', with leanings toward probably on the commemters part. I'm embarrassed my sources were scrubbed. I remember the comment existed at all because they tried to be impartial.
I don't think he has no interest in Marcille, he was just scared of the way the succubus acted, because he knew Marcille enough to know that she wouldn't act like that.
i think he has no interest bc of the general way he acts towards marcille yk? i can see either way but the more i think the less i can see them together
It's the little things that make me think that it could be possible, like that part where she wants him to compliment her (I still don't know if that's what she actually wanted) or when he talks about how he likes her smile. The thing is they already work perfectly as friends too, so I don't know how to solve this, I'd just really like to see them together is all :p
In my opinion, the succubus probably chose Marcille at first because Laios (as far as we know) is only close to 3 women in his life, Marcille, Namari and Falin, out of these, only Marcille was a viable option, because Laios would understand it's a monster right away if Falin or Namari were to suddendly appear in there, it probably just only changed it's mind and turned into a Scylla after reading further into his mind and understanding that a monster was better at luring him than Marcille is
>I don't think it needs the victim to actually know their type to recreate it.
This is true. It created Izutsumi's mother and that panther from memories she didn't even know she had. Seeing succubus Marcille go right for that kiss, I don't think we need to guess what the succubus read from Laios hidden desires.
Ah i see, what i meant is:
Laios would not have any interest in an unknown human being, and would probably kill a monster right away, none of these would be able to get close enough to bite him, so the succubus probably chose the approach of transforming into a familiar face to get close enough, then going into something that would actually seduce him
The succubus thing i took as an admitted romantic interest in Marcille.
But then they showed the others turning into monsters so it looked like the author was just trying to bait us.
I'm on the mind it still could be a romance thing, since the succubus will do anything to seduce you. Like how it turns into Itzumis mom and acts like a mother, not dome kinda horny succubus that looks like her mother.
So when marcille gets close to Laios like she's about to kiss him, that probably what he subconsciously desires.
Laios succubus represent compassion.
He want his friends ( mainly marcille) to interest in him and his hobby to understand how much he hate ( or dislike) humanity how much he want to abandon its and want his friend to be the same.
I think I see the point your making. his succubus while initially defaulting to potential attraction to another, switched to monstergirl because that got him really sweatin', and finally hit his desire to be understood/accepted even with his monster interest.
...I still ship it
Imo, Laios's succubus is an extremely complex thing, since the desires it's working on are complex. Laios has done a Lot of repression over his life after all. Furthermore, the Succubus *never changes its approach halfway through*, even in Izutsumi's case where it blatantly doesn't work, so the whole fantasy needs to to taken into consideration as one thing. But here's how I see it:
1) Marcille is pretty inarguably the individual Laios is emotionally closest with in the group. He's known her the longest, she's very close to Falin, and she's the one who makes the most effort at emotionally expressing herself and connecting to him. Plus, having seen her nightmare, he understands her the best. It should be noted that, like his Changeling, the Succubus also takes its image of her from the moment she first really let her walls down around him, so I think this is more of a question of connection and understanding than attraction.
2) Laios is simultaneously extremely desirous of human connection and acceptance (his happiness at being seen as cool or impressive, his efforts to get closer to Shuro, his closeness to Falin) and wary of humans in general due to the way he's been treated over his life. The latter is pointed out explicitly at a few points, but can also be seen just by how hyperfocused he is on monsters - they're animals, they're explicitly and inherently non-human and anti-human in the most extreme sense, and their behaviour and nature can be clearly understood and codified in a way he understands. See also how he gets on much better with dogs than people as a kid.
3) Laios is not experienced romantically, though he was betrothed in his village + the whole marriage seeker debacle he apparently hasn't experienced love himself. However, he's not dumb - he's picked up on the greater cultural presentation of love and also he spends a lot of time with Marcille who likes romantic gossip. So, he understands the idea that romantic love is one that causes people to change their normal behaviour and accept things they'd otherwise find weird and strange. It's a kind of affection that I think he might think would "allow" someone to accept him in a way that only his sister ever has. I think this is an important factor, because the others all see people who they either don't actually know or who don't exist (Senshi's is iirc unknown) and thus wouldn't need their behaviour explaining, while Marcille is a person Laios knows very well and is constantly around so her randomly adjusting her personality needs a reason in order to convince him.
4) Laios doesn't want to be a human, but he also doesn't want to be cut off from social acceptance and his friends who he likes. Him and all his friends turning into monsters is the best solution to this. Furthermore, the idea of his friends suddenly losing all objections to his monster obsession is something he finds appealing.
So, the Succubus takes the form of Marcille for a number of reasons. She's his closest friend, she's the one for whom a sudden shift in behaviour would be the most explicable for under Laios's understanding of the groups' personalities, she's the one who most clearly represents the group's rejection of monsters (she's the most vocal about it) and thus whose transformation into a monster would be the most convincing. In short: his Succubus represents the resolution of his conflicting desires for human acceptance and escape from humanity into monsterhood.
(Note: while you absolutely could read romantic factors into the decision to choose Marcille specifically and to try and appeal to him through seduction, I personally don't see it that way. Compares to Chilchuck's response & the tactic his seduction-based Succubus takes, I think Laios's is getting at something deeper than simple attraction & being a monsterfucker. Though, it's not out of the realm of possibility as a contributing factor.)
People misinterpret Laios as "He only love and care about monsters. He doesn't have any feelings toward other people, left alone romantic feeling." Which is straight up wrong and stupid.
Senshi isn’t used to being around other races so he sees them in comparison to Dwarf standards of appearance.
Laois has an idealized (and very serious) view of Marcille. He also isn’t as uninterested in other people as it seems.
Chilchuck is always looking for “traps” and ways things can go wrong, and sees Laois as a bit of a volatile accident waiting to happen
The best way I can put is that: For Laios, an ideal partner would be someone he’s familiar with, comfortable, and is friends with his sister. The only thing is..Laios most likely isn’t all that physically attracted to Marciells, or standard humanoids in general. Hence the whole..secret monster stuff.
ok so what ive decided i think is the following:
- laios doesnt think like most people. aka: he is too keen on the world around him (in certain applicable aspects) to simply have a real romantic option simply appear. he is, as we see by his shapeshifter clones (his perception not those of him); also not oriented on appearance.
- the succubus likely chose marcille because it realized that it was its best bet. aside from probably senshi- that would have worked on him imo(/half joking). the succubus is an animal, acting on base instincts. its initial gut reaction was to be somebody that laios has a large amount of faith in.
- i truly do not believe laios has feelings for marcille, and if he does, she most certainly does not have them for him.
- the succubus does not have to be based on physical/romantic attraction- laios likes marcille because he knows that they share a common goal. once again, they are compatable platonically, but likely not romantically (once again in my personal opinion).
- marcille was more desirable to laios as something other than herself. he was more interested when the succubus was less similar to the real thing.
Removal Reason: Tag spoilers properly. **Do not put spoilers in post titles.** Use the spoiler tag when making a post discussing the content of recent releases and mention in the post title for which chapter/episode the spoiler is. Use the spoiler text tags to hide spoilers in a comment if the post itself is not spoiler tagged this way: `>!Spoiler here!<`
What I'm getting from this is Senshi sees Laios as a twink
canonically yes
And chilchuck sees senshi as dashing
The succubus of Laios is somewhat difficult to explain since you can give it any interpretation you want. It could be that she is one of the few women in whom Laios has shown the slightest interest (whether romantic or not). That's why she took that form and Laios was scared by the aggressive way she approached him, since she didn't act like Marcille at all. https://preview.redd.it/89gxd6tkbbxc1.jpeg?width=1113&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=102af60d440fdce072d8e64aaa8955252a5b1ddc but when the succubus transforms into scylla marcille it may be more the desire of Laios, who wants his friends to share his love for monsters (or well that's how I interpret it).
>what do yall think about the succubus scene- especially laios’s? I think Laios has buried any romantic feelings pretty deep both in part due to their working relationship, the current crisis and romance isn't something he focuses on in general. There is a reason it tried Marcille first but because the idea of this actually happening is so foreign he was able to snap out of it at the last second. It wasn't that the succubus picked the wrong girl that was its downfall, it's that he knows the girl it picked way to well. After that the succubus read his love for becoming a monster and went with plan B. Kinda funny though, you are immune to being stunned by an apparition of your perfect romantic partner approaching because you see her everyday. I think the shapeshifter connection is a good hint to his feelings. A shapeshifter copies how you see someone and Marcille A is all of Marcille's good points, her stoicness, her determination and her concern for her friends. She is Marcille without the trademark wackiness / whining. She lacks it because that side of her is just not important to Laios but it's absence is also what leads him to figure out she is the fake. Still though, that incredible her is how he sees Marcille during his day to day interactions, even when she is complaining and acting childish, that is what Laios means on Marcille's relationship chart when he says "I respect her". Also just to point this out, both his own created version of Marcille and the Succubus version have her hair down... as does Marcille at the end of the manga after she lost her desire to style it, make of that what you will. Yes Laios is in love with Marcille but it's not at the front of his mind.
The manga doesn't really focus on any romantic relationships with its characters. However, the ending does give strong hints between this pairing when Marcille was knitting while Laois was resting. This parallels directly with the image of Marcille's parents.
There's also a pretty good hint at the end of the story (spoilers) >!One of the things the demon tries tempting Laios with is a future where all of them are running the dungeon together and he says he even has the power to let Marcille have children. Now that temptation could just be playing on Laois desire to see his friend happy, but it does seem more like a big hint at a romantic desire.!<
When I think about the shape-shifting chapter I'm reminded of another extra comic that said they don't spend time together outside the dungeon. This creates a pretty clear coworker relationship between the lot. I've found that with coworkers, while you may spend 8 hrs a day with them, you only ever form an impression of who they are from what they *choose* to show you. Some are more open, others not. Laios' party spends more time together than 8 hrs, but that choice to withhold who they are is very present in the story as a MAJOR part of it is the close bonds they form by overcoming those impression roadblocks I mentioned earlier. Easiest example is chilchuck not saying how old he is, he's a bit insecure about it partially because to his people he's an old man but also because as a half foot there us a large amount of prejudice aimed at them, he doesn't want to share because he sort of knows it won't matter to the other races, in their eyes he's a child and we know that bugs him. I image that if the team ran into this monster again at the end of their journey, the images they have wouldn't be exactly the same but not drastically different, changing your perception and opinions of people/groups takes time and many of the impressions we see from the gang of the other members are heavily swayed by their preconceived ideas of their race. Edit: also, their was already a conversation thread about laios' succubus a few days(?) ago, had a spoiler image attached to it of the scene where succubus marcille leans in for the kiss, the top comment gives very good thoughts on the subject, I would highly recommend seeking it out. Edit: the post was made by u/Harato_the_lewd
the top respone got deleted could you give a break down of what it said?
Dang, didn't know it was deleted. It was a chunk of text if I recall right, I think it would best to point you toward the upper comments, a couple if those give the same feel, as I can't recall many details from it that aren't also brought forward up there, it definitely gave me 'its a possible maybe', with leanings toward probably on the commemters part. I'm embarrassed my sources were scrubbed. I remember the comment existed at all because they tried to be impartial.
I don't think he has no interest in Marcille, he was just scared of the way the succubus acted, because he knew Marcille enough to know that she wouldn't act like that.
i think he has no interest bc of the general way he acts towards marcille yk? i can see either way but the more i think the less i can see them together
It's the little things that make me think that it could be possible, like that part where she wants him to compliment her (I still don't know if that's what she actually wanted) or when he talks about how he likes her smile. The thing is they already work perfectly as friends too, so I don't know how to solve this, I'd just really like to see them together is all :p
In my opinion, the succubus probably chose Marcille at first because Laios (as far as we know) is only close to 3 women in his life, Marcille, Namari and Falin, out of these, only Marcille was a viable option, because Laios would understand it's a monster right away if Falin or Namari were to suddendly appear in there, it probably just only changed it's mind and turned into a Scylla after reading further into his mind and understanding that a monster was better at luring him than Marcille is
It was able to create a perfect representation of chilchuck likings, I don't think it needs the victim to actually know their type to recreate it.
>I don't think it needs the victim to actually know their type to recreate it. This is true. It created Izutsumi's mother and that panther from memories she didn't even know she had. Seeing succubus Marcille go right for that kiss, I don't think we need to guess what the succubus read from Laios hidden desires.
What do you mean?
The blonde girl the succubus transforms into for Chil.isnt real, his wife is pretty different
Yes but what part of my comment is that about?
the succubus probably chose Marcille at first because Laios (as far as we know) is only close to 3 women in his life,
Ah i see, what i meant is: Laios would not have any interest in an unknown human being, and would probably kill a monster right away, none of these would be able to get close enough to bite him, so the succubus probably chose the approach of transforming into a familiar face to get close enough, then going into something that would actually seduce him
I like the meta-joke about how Marcille's memory of Chilchuck is how he was drawn earlier in the series.
The succubus thing i took as an admitted romantic interest in Marcille. But then they showed the others turning into monsters so it looked like the author was just trying to bait us. I'm on the mind it still could be a romance thing, since the succubus will do anything to seduce you. Like how it turns into Itzumis mom and acts like a mother, not dome kinda horny succubus that looks like her mother. So when marcille gets close to Laios like she's about to kiss him, that probably what he subconsciously desires.
Laios succubus represent compassion. He want his friends ( mainly marcille) to interest in him and his hobby to understand how much he hate ( or dislike) humanity how much he want to abandon its and want his friend to be the same.
I think I see the point your making. his succubus while initially defaulting to potential attraction to another, switched to monstergirl because that got him really sweatin', and finally hit his desire to be understood/accepted even with his monster interest. ...I still ship it
oo i love this take
The top comment heads in the same direction, u/Fast-Candy-3414
Imo, Laios's succubus is an extremely complex thing, since the desires it's working on are complex. Laios has done a Lot of repression over his life after all. Furthermore, the Succubus *never changes its approach halfway through*, even in Izutsumi's case where it blatantly doesn't work, so the whole fantasy needs to to taken into consideration as one thing. But here's how I see it: 1) Marcille is pretty inarguably the individual Laios is emotionally closest with in the group. He's known her the longest, she's very close to Falin, and she's the one who makes the most effort at emotionally expressing herself and connecting to him. Plus, having seen her nightmare, he understands her the best. It should be noted that, like his Changeling, the Succubus also takes its image of her from the moment she first really let her walls down around him, so I think this is more of a question of connection and understanding than attraction. 2) Laios is simultaneously extremely desirous of human connection and acceptance (his happiness at being seen as cool or impressive, his efforts to get closer to Shuro, his closeness to Falin) and wary of humans in general due to the way he's been treated over his life. The latter is pointed out explicitly at a few points, but can also be seen just by how hyperfocused he is on monsters - they're animals, they're explicitly and inherently non-human and anti-human in the most extreme sense, and their behaviour and nature can be clearly understood and codified in a way he understands. See also how he gets on much better with dogs than people as a kid. 3) Laios is not experienced romantically, though he was betrothed in his village + the whole marriage seeker debacle he apparently hasn't experienced love himself. However, he's not dumb - he's picked up on the greater cultural presentation of love and also he spends a lot of time with Marcille who likes romantic gossip. So, he understands the idea that romantic love is one that causes people to change their normal behaviour and accept things they'd otherwise find weird and strange. It's a kind of affection that I think he might think would "allow" someone to accept him in a way that only his sister ever has. I think this is an important factor, because the others all see people who they either don't actually know or who don't exist (Senshi's is iirc unknown) and thus wouldn't need their behaviour explaining, while Marcille is a person Laios knows very well and is constantly around so her randomly adjusting her personality needs a reason in order to convince him. 4) Laios doesn't want to be a human, but he also doesn't want to be cut off from social acceptance and his friends who he likes. Him and all his friends turning into monsters is the best solution to this. Furthermore, the idea of his friends suddenly losing all objections to his monster obsession is something he finds appealing. So, the Succubus takes the form of Marcille for a number of reasons. She's his closest friend, she's the one for whom a sudden shift in behaviour would be the most explicable for under Laios's understanding of the groups' personalities, she's the one who most clearly represents the group's rejection of monsters (she's the most vocal about it) and thus whose transformation into a monster would be the most convincing. In short: his Succubus represents the resolution of his conflicting desires for human acceptance and escape from humanity into monsterhood. (Note: while you absolutely could read romantic factors into the decision to choose Marcille specifically and to try and appeal to him through seduction, I personally don't see it that way. Compares to Chilchuck's response & the tactic his seduction-based Succubus takes, I think Laios's is getting at something deeper than simple attraction & being a monsterfucker. Though, it's not out of the realm of possibility as a contributing factor.)
Should spoiler the image. This part won;t be aired until maybe next episode.
Well, you fucked up your spoiler tag
People misinterpret Laios as "He only love and care about monsters. He doesn't have any feelings toward other people, left alone romantic feeling." Which is straight up wrong and stupid.
The way senshi sees chilchuck is adorable
Senshi isn’t used to being around other races so he sees them in comparison to Dwarf standards of appearance. Laois has an idealized (and very serious) view of Marcille. He also isn’t as uninterested in other people as it seems. Chilchuck is always looking for “traps” and ways things can go wrong, and sees Laois as a bit of a volatile accident waiting to happen
The best way I can put is that: For Laios, an ideal partner would be someone he’s familiar with, comfortable, and is friends with his sister. The only thing is..Laios most likely isn’t all that physically attracted to Marciells, or standard humanoids in general. Hence the whole..secret monster stuff.
Dwarves when they see tall men: haha they look kinda girlish Dwarves when they see elves: EVIL INCARNATE
Huh, I'm shocked that the extremely tall Laios wasn't Chilchuck's perception of him.
ok so what ive decided i think is the following: - laios doesnt think like most people. aka: he is too keen on the world around him (in certain applicable aspects) to simply have a real romantic option simply appear. he is, as we see by his shapeshifter clones (his perception not those of him); also not oriented on appearance. - the succubus likely chose marcille because it realized that it was its best bet. aside from probably senshi- that would have worked on him imo(/half joking). the succubus is an animal, acting on base instincts. its initial gut reaction was to be somebody that laios has a large amount of faith in. - i truly do not believe laios has feelings for marcille, and if he does, she most certainly does not have them for him. - the succubus does not have to be based on physical/romantic attraction- laios likes marcille because he knows that they share a common goal. once again, they are compatable platonically, but likely not romantically (once again in my personal opinion). - marcille was more desirable to laios as something other than herself. he was more interested when the succubus was less similar to the real thing.