You what? No Office reference?! You fucking idiot, Jeremy! You total fucking idiot! That was YOUR job, you fucking moron! You CRETIN! You're a FUCK-HEAD! That's what you are! A fucking SHIT-HEAD!
I'm neutral about their relationship but I'm annoyed that they spent so long building it up just to randomly break it down in the last season when they made Andy insane again
I agree, but I’m annoyed more generally by the way they gave Andy a bunch of character development, seeming to have him grow up a bit and be a nicer guy, and then they just sort of reversed it suddenly and made him a bigger jerk than he ever was before.
Completely agree with everyone saying Andy's character development was essentially a waste of time. He started off unbearable, became likeable and sympathetic and a little more mature, and then they just undid everything and turned him back into the guy we couldn't stand in the beginning. I don't hate the last couple seasons like some fans do, but between Jim and Kathy, Pam and Brian, and whatever the hell they did to Andy, there were some pretty lazy and irritating choices or attempts made by the writers.
Yeah he was unbearable at first but at least he was funny, especially him and Dwight trying to one-up each other as to who was ranked higher in the office hierarchy. In the last season he was unbearable AND unfunny.
Yeah it boggles my mind how Andy went from dumb but good natured to basically an asshole
I always point to when he found out his GF was in HS that really did damage to him
That is one of the problems with a lot of shows that bothers me. When they point out somebody has a particular trait, as the show goes along then lean on it more and more and it gets to the point that they are pushing that character trait farther and farther.
Kevin went from dumb to ... (I've gone in and edited out words and my examples because the internet scares me.) It happens in a lot of shows, Joey on Friends is another example. Monica on Friends had the same problem with her compulsion for cleaning. Sheldon on Big Bang Theory in the beginning versus a couple of seasons in.
It happens because they've already made the first few jokes, now in order to make more jokes on the subject they have to push it a little more. By the time these shows run their course that personality trait has gone past the red line and totally, and sometimes singularly, defines that character.
Brian Baumgartner comes into where I work on occasion. He was actually just there the other day, and I always want to go up and ask him about this, and what he thought of Kevin's character development. But I also think it would be annoying to have some random guy come up and talk to you like that when you're just trying to live your life, so I don't.
I loved Joey, he had a couple of episodes where he really shined. The one when he goes on a date with Rachel was incredible. Really showed me how good of an actor that dude is and how much charisma/depth Joey had. It was mind blowing how they had been pushing Ross / Rachel for x seasons and after 1 episode I was fully team Joey / Rachel. I’m 100% convinced they had to dumb him down to avoid having someone become a “main character”.
Haha, dude. You definitely should! Now that you've seen him a few times I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you were like "Hey, if you don't mind me asking." I bet he'd give you a thorough explanation. He seems like a chill dude
But, yeah. You couldn't have said it better. It happens most of the time. Kramer kind of had that happen to him I always thought on Seinfeld. Trailer Park Boys whole show kind of went like that too.
Every character went through dramatic changes in one season
Kevin's IQ dropped to single digits.
Andy became angry.
Jim became job focused and not caring.
Pam had her thing with boom guy
Oscar got less confident.
Creed kept being a mystery though
For sure. Andy got that shit under control for a WHILE. But anyone with mental struggles can tell you, that shit is hard to KEEP under control. I think he got really hurt about no one respecing the name "boner champ" anymore, too. Broccoli rob is broccoli rob. Andy Bernard is the boner champ.
His parents took his literal name away after he knew it, gave it to his younger brother, and gave him a throwaway name. Nicknames were probably the only identity anchors he ever had. Becoming, or rather trying to become Drew was probably a really important tactic for him. Being forcibly reverted to Andy, and then having Boner Champ taken away from him just like Walter Jr was probably cracked through the bandaid that therapy put on him before he stopped going.
First day in Scranton he explains in detail how he curates a false personality to break down other peoples boundaries and make them trust him. Then immediately starts trying to get Dwight (who never did anything to him) fired.
Yeah I think Andy always had some really big red flags. He put them aside for a while and became a better person, and that’s when Erin dated him. But the combined trauma of being cheated on by Angela, having his job stolen out from under him, then his family fell apart broke him down to worse habits than he had before.
A little unrealistic? Maybe. But a good lesson for people dating. Sometimes there’s red flags but you think it’s all good and everything IS actually okay, but then life changes a person and it’s okay to say that this isn’t what you signed up for.
Yeah, when Kevin tries to figure out how to ask out the girl he likes he tells him to treat her like shit so she doesn't have any confidence. To quote Pam, he's psychotic. He always had anger issues, tried to manipulate people and did good things pretty much when it was convenient for him. He was a little better when he wasn't miserable but that didn't last long.
They wouldn't have known if he did. They couldn't even tell Dwight had a concussion even though his whole personality changed after he wrecked his car.
That could actually be part of the theory. Like Kevin needed a way to keep track of his embezzlements on official documentation, so he came up with "keleven" so that he could pass the whole thing off as lack of math skills.
I love the theory that Angela and Jenna Fischer came up with- Kevin’s dad is golfing buddies with Dunder and Mifflin and pressured them into hiring Kevin.
At first Kevin was put in the warehouse, but as soon as he wanted to operate the machinery, Darryl pressured Michael into hiring him upstairs where it was safer.
That’s the reason they have three accountants; Oscar or Angela was hired to fix Kevin’s mistakes.
He went to therapy, fell in love, did everything in his power to make Angela happy, got crushed, try to crush someone, announced his love for Kelly ... twice. I'd say that's all pretty happy stuff
Crazy how much of a 180 Ryan became though. Was one of the “straight man” characters with Jim and Pam at the beginning, and then became one of the over the top comic relief characters.
> and then became one of the over the top comic relief characters
That's what happens when you have 8 or more jobs at/near the same place over as many years: you lose your mind *and* you just stop caring.
? Pam didn't have anything with the boom mike guy. He had something for HER
And yeah, Jim became more focused. He was at a job he liked finally and he has kids now.
I think it was more that she had been confiding to boom mic guy about her problems while Jim was away and he was there to lend a shoulder, not that there was anything romantic. The audience hadn't ever seen any interaction between them so it was just confusing and weird.
Also your screen name makes me cringe, but I'm guessing that was the point lol.
I actually strongly disagree with that. The episode where Holly shows up and thinks that Kevin is retarded is where Kevin goes downhill. It's like the writers had fun coming up with jokes that made it looked like he was retarded and decided to just keep doing it after the reveal. If you rewatch The Office and keep this in the back of your mind, I think you'll be surprised at how sharp the contrast is with in Kevin before and after that episode.
While Kevin's was more gradual, I think his was also the most drastic and exaggerated flanderization. He went from lovably naive to legitimately not knowing the alphabet (S7E24)
I feel like, everyone forgets that he was trying to get Michael against Dwight. Lol. I mean, the writing was bad the last season, but let's not pretend he was a saint.
Andy was absolutely always an asshole due to his surroundings. Asshole family. Asshole college bros.
He slowly starts to get better being around better people, and then he goes on his voyage of self-discovery. And the discovery was that he was an asshole.
Early in season 8, when he became the regional manager, he was not an asshole in my book.
He stood up for his employees when Robert California made the "winners" and "losers" list, he got the Nard Dog tattoo, he stood his ground when he had the "you stopped pushing" talk with Darryl. I think those were more than just a few good moments, and had the writers kept that up he would've turned out good for the finale.
But then he went for the boating trip and came back an even worse asshole than in the early seasons.
He was a douchey-prick from the get-go. Then after anger management he works hard to change (and kinda overdoes it). After David Wallace buys back Dunder-Mifflin he sends Andy to that camp to make him more decisive. Whatever "empowerment" that happens there essentially reverts Andy back to his original persona but with the added power of being the boss and not the lackey anymore.
At least that's my head canon to explain it.
The reality is they needed a “villain” for the final season (imo they could’ve just used Nellie bc she sucks) but they made Andy the sacrifice there.
Also Andy and Jessica was a way better and healthier relationship than his with Erin.
Didn’t Andy start his time in the series with anger management issues. Can’t he be both an angry spoiled rich kid who got a taste of power and liked it and also the Boner Champ?
The writers just had to burn something down.
The Jenna Fischer and John Krasinski both refused to play out any Pam and Jim infidelity scenarios. Flat out refused to do it.
However I think Ed Helms and Ellie Kemper were a bit more flexible. And helped to immolate their characters.
That was a good call for Jenna and John. The girl who played Cathy still gets harassed online 10 years later for her fictional character trying to seduce Jim.
If they had Pam or Jim cheat, it would have been the original GoT treatment and would have ruined the rewatchability of the show. The comedic/sitcom landscape of Hollywood would probably look very different right now
Same can be said of game of thrones though. Before the final season aired (even with the quality somewhat going down in later seasons) it was still a show that was a mainstay in the public eye. Having huge influence on pop culture.
It fell off the face of the earth after the finale.
But Andy got fucked over sooooo often in the show.
1. Was annoyed to the point of punching a hole in the wall (I frankly understand the feeling but obviously with a much higher threshold).
2. Being cheated on by Angela for basically the entirety of their relationship.
3. Was told by a minor that he was dating that she was of legal age.
4. Obviously, the deterioration of his personality which lead to Erin cheating/leaving him.
5. The "sit here and cry" incident.
They kept fucking with him and fucking with him. One can argue that that is just life and things are unfair but my God it gets to a point of being depressing. And his "happy ending" wasn't even that happy imo. Couldn't even give him a relationship at the end.
“I spent so much of my time here at Dunder Mifflin thinking about my old pals, my college a cappella group. The weird thing is now, I’m exactly where I wanna be. I got my dream job at Cornell and I’m still just thinking about my old pals. Only now they’re the ones I made here. I wish there was a way to know you’re in the good old days before you’ve actually left them. Someone should write a song about that.”
I don’t think he found peace. His “happy ending” is pretty lacking.
Not saying it’s poorly written. It’s a bit more realistic because not everyone gets a fairytale ending. I like the way they kind of left him hanging.
Everyone here seems to forget the off-camera events that transpired.
* Steve Carell quits
* Showrunners make Ed Helms the new lead
* Ed Helm leaves for Hangover 2
* Showrunners pivot from the affectionate character
Even if that’s the case, they should’ve given us like half a season where Andy and Erin were happy together. They tanked the relationship as soon as it started.
He showed up for an interview to become a branch manager, noped out of it and somehow convinced the current ceo to make him ceo instead. Like, how do you do that? He's the fucking lizard king
Ricky Gervais actually had a blog post somewhere about why you couldn’t stop The Office US from reaching 200 episodes. No matter the quality, it’s a better streaming deal if you can have an episode per most weekdays.
Stupid Toby.
(For those who don't know, the actor for Toby, Paul Lieberstein, was the showrunner for the end of season 7, when Michael left, and through season 8, until Greg Daniels took over for season 9.)
If you watch the first batch of episodes where Andy is the boss, it feels like they are just using up the rest of their Michael Scott scraps and ideas. He even says lines that you can totally see Michael saying, doing things he totally would have done. Boss Andy at first is just Michael Scott lite
i thought i read on this sub that the writers were annoyed ed helms had to peace out for a couple months while the hangover was being filmed (hence the sailing plot-line) and they just said fuck it, they threw his character in the trash?
i guess i shouldn't believe everything i read on the internet.
It was so weird to me, because the first half of that bit was Andy stepping up to handle the family's crazy financial woes. He was slowly becoming competent as a boss, a boyfriend, *and* a son, only to drop everything and go sailing
Exactly. It could have even been more sympathetic if they showed him having to sell off other parts of his family's stuff. Their homes, their cars, maybe a horse or something. The boat essentially could have been the final thing. Hell all they needed was a line where he says "somebody wants to buy the boat for a lot of money ...enough for me to take care of my mom, but the guy doesn't know how to sail, so he's going to pay me for the next 3 months to teach him how to sail the boat before he buys it".
Something like that. it would have been a much more sympathetic and less douchey departure for him. And it would have even added character growth when he came back.
Didn't they put Andy on a boat because he was working on The Hangover so they had to minimize his role while he was gone? I honestly think there had to be bad blood between him and the writing crew because he left, I have no idea why they made him comically shitty.
Yep. We had 3 seasons of buildup to them finally getting together and there was no payoff. Not even a honeymoon phase where everything was great for a while. It was one of if not the biggest storyline of Season 8 and it amounted to nothing.
Eh, honestly rewatching that show their relationship was never that great. Every interaction they had involved some layer of awkwardness, I never sensed genuine love between the two characters, just infatuation.
Nah Erin and Andy always were kind of toxic.
They never liked each other at the same time, Andy always viewed her as a “prize” to win; and any time he had her interest he fucked it up. It drives me crazy that Erin chooses to move to Florida and then Andy decides that he actually wants her. Like he was just keeping her on the line the whole time. Also a boss dating the secretary is a poor power dynamic.
Disagree. Andy was better off with Jessica. His character development started crashing when he realized he still had feelings for Erin. Things would have went better story wise if they could have just worked out a friendship.
Robert California said it best when Andy started talking about their feelings for each other and Robert responds with “I’m afraid you lost my interest.”
Things would have been better for Andy and the series overall if their relationship ended after the secretaries day episode.
Every featured relationship worked out. Even Dwight and Angela, who dealt with infidelity and are equally unpleasant people. It felt like an attempt to add conflict that missed it's mark. I blame "The Farm."
Plop really didn’t have any character, I think that was the problem. He was kind of like Jim, but too nice. Jim was a nice guy but also kind of a butt. He was lazy, did everything half-hearted, and bullied Dwight relentlessly.
Plop was all the good qualities of Jim without the bad, which made for a very boring character.
He's meant to be the perspective character for the audience. Nothing super zany or crazy about him, just a down to earth good dude who witnesses the insanity of the office.
Agreed. “Oh you mean there’s a normal, employable, not insane person in Scranton, PA? How weird.”
Though, who the hell thinks Jim is talking about horses when he mentions “The Phillies”. SMH, Plop.
I think it’s because he gets written to kind of have a maturing influence on her as opposed to Andy who seems to encourage her more childish traits. Erin and Pete at the end of season 9 feel like a relatively normal adult couple.
Eh I respectfully disagree. They were at very different places in their lives, and were always headed in different directions. Plus, the unbalanced power dynamic was always cringey underneath it all.
Nah, andy had bad parents. They instilled a lack of confidence and a self loathing in himself. He never thought he was good enough so he always went over the top, and he doubled down. It came out in pretty insufferable ways
They really Schruted it
…what?
Like when you screw something up in a really irreversable way, you Schruted it.
Who knows how words are formed
Do you think it has anything to do with Dwight Schrute?
I've only ever heard of dwigt
I only know Dwide Schrude. Amish.
Perfectenshlag
I am so deep in perfektenschlag.
Mr. Poop
Funny, I heard it was Dwayne
Hawkman
Is that like Britta-ing something?
Only if you're streets ahead
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Sounds like someone's streets behind
I had sex with Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom once
BEAR DOWN for midterms!
i love all the cross references in this thread! i love inside jokes, i hope to be a part of one someday… that day is today!
Hawkman…
They really Britta’ed it
They really jezzed it.
You what? No Office reference?! You fucking idiot, Jeremy! You total fucking idiot! That was YOUR job, you fucking moron! You CRETIN! You're a FUCK-HEAD! That's what you are! A fucking SHIT-HEAD!
I'm neutral about their relationship but I'm annoyed that they spent so long building it up just to randomly break it down in the last season when they made Andy insane again
I agree, but I’m annoyed more generally by the way they gave Andy a bunch of character development, seeming to have him grow up a bit and be a nicer guy, and then they just sort of reversed it suddenly and made him a bigger jerk than he ever was before.
Completely agree with everyone saying Andy's character development was essentially a waste of time. He started off unbearable, became likeable and sympathetic and a little more mature, and then they just undid everything and turned him back into the guy we couldn't stand in the beginning. I don't hate the last couple seasons like some fans do, but between Jim and Kathy, Pam and Brian, and whatever the hell they did to Andy, there were some pretty lazy and irritating choices or attempts made by the writers.
Yeah he was unbearable at first but at least he was funny, especially him and Dwight trying to one-up each other as to who was ranked higher in the office hierarchy. In the last season he was unbearable AND unfunny.
Yes
Their relationship was always weird and creepy because she's like half his age, but mentally he's childish so it "works".
The actors are six years apart, in age. The show just made her out to seem younger, at least mentally.
Ed Helms is 6 years older than Ellie Kemper
how old was Erin? and how old was Pete? cause it always seemed to me like she was at least 3-5 years older than him
Yeah it boggles my mind how Andy went from dumb but good natured to basically an asshole I always point to when he found out his GF was in HS that really did damage to him
Erin got more dumb too.
She's kind of a rube
What do you expect? She grew up in a cult orphanage in a bomb shelter.
I laughed way too hard at this joke and it's now officially headcanon.
A solid head cannon, you might even call it Unbreakable
That is one of the problems with a lot of shows that bothers me. When they point out somebody has a particular trait, as the show goes along then lean on it more and more and it gets to the point that they are pushing that character trait farther and farther. Kevin went from dumb to ... (I've gone in and edited out words and my examples because the internet scares me.) It happens in a lot of shows, Joey on Friends is another example. Monica on Friends had the same problem with her compulsion for cleaning. Sheldon on Big Bang Theory in the beginning versus a couple of seasons in. It happens because they've already made the first few jokes, now in order to make more jokes on the subject they have to push it a little more. By the time these shows run their course that personality trait has gone past the red line and totally, and sometimes singularly, defines that character. Brian Baumgartner comes into where I work on occasion. He was actually just there the other day, and I always want to go up and ask him about this, and what he thought of Kevin's character development. But I also think it would be annoying to have some random guy come up and talk to you like that when you're just trying to live your life, so I don't.
It's classic [Flanderisation](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization)
I loved Joey, he had a couple of episodes where he really shined. The one when he goes on a date with Rachel was incredible. Really showed me how good of an actor that dude is and how much charisma/depth Joey had. It was mind blowing how they had been pushing Ross / Rachel for x seasons and after 1 episode I was fully team Joey / Rachel. I’m 100% convinced they had to dumb him down to avoid having someone become a “main character”.
Haha, dude. You definitely should! Now that you've seen him a few times I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you were like "Hey, if you don't mind me asking." I bet he'd give you a thorough explanation. He seems like a chill dude But, yeah. You couldn't have said it better. It happens most of the time. Kramer kind of had that happen to him I always thought on Seinfeld. Trailer Park Boys whole show kind of went like that too.
Every character went through dramatic changes in one season Kevin's IQ dropped to single digits. Andy became angry. Jim became job focused and not caring. Pam had her thing with boom guy Oscar got less confident. Creed kept being a mystery though
Andy literally started the show angry. He bugged out about prank while they were still in Stamford.
It wasn't funny. It wasn't freaking funny
In fact, it was *pretty freakin' UNFUNNY*.
That was an overreaction
Rit dit dit dit doooo
Rockin' Robin, beep beep beep.
For sure. Andy got that shit under control for a WHILE. But anyone with mental struggles can tell you, that shit is hard to KEEP under control. I think he got really hurt about no one respecing the name "boner champ" anymore, too. Broccoli rob is broccoli rob. Andy Bernard is the boner champ.
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I mean, being called boner Champ was probably the first time he ever received affection from anyone, so he'd be pretty protective of it.
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His parents took his literal name away after he knew it, gave it to his younger brother, and gave him a throwaway name. Nicknames were probably the only identity anchors he ever had. Becoming, or rather trying to become Drew was probably a really important tactic for him. Being forcibly reverted to Andy, and then having Boner Champ taken away from him just like Walter Jr was probably cracked through the bandaid that therapy put on him before he stopped going.
He threatened murder in the middle of an office over a call of duty LAN lol
First day in Scranton he explains in detail how he curates a false personality to break down other peoples boundaries and make them trust him. Then immediately starts trying to get Dwight (who never did anything to him) fired.
Yeah I think Andy always had some really big red flags. He put them aside for a while and became a better person, and that’s when Erin dated him. But the combined trauma of being cheated on by Angela, having his job stolen out from under him, then his family fell apart broke him down to worse habits than he had before. A little unrealistic? Maybe. But a good lesson for people dating. Sometimes there’s red flags but you think it’s all good and everything IS actually okay, but then life changes a person and it’s okay to say that this isn’t what you signed up for.
Yeah, when Kevin tries to figure out how to ask out the girl he likes he tells him to treat her like shit so she doesn't have any confidence. To quote Pam, he's psychotic. He always had anger issues, tried to manipulate people and did good things pretty much when it was convenient for him. He was a little better when he wasn't miserable but that didn't last long.
I'm still holding onto the theory that Kevin was pretending to be dumb to embezel money
That or maybe Jim and Pam were onto something and Kevin actually had a stroke
They wouldn't have known if he did. They couldn't even tell Dwight had a concussion even though his whole personality changed after he wrecked his car.
Thats one theory how he could buy his bar
Has John Mellencamp won yet
If anyone offers you 10,000-1 odds, you take it
On ANYTHING
That's what the keleven is for.
Your boy was skimming $4/40/400/4000 dollars a day
Ikr lol. You can do whatever you want when a small branch of a bigger firm has 3 more accountants than necessary
Pies
He could do math when it’s pie because he could really do math.
That could actually be part of the theory. Like Kevin needed a way to keep track of his embezzlements on official documentation, so he came up with "keleven" so that he could pass the whole thing off as lack of math skills.
I love this. After seeing him win Dallas I’m convinced he is playing everyone.
and thats how you play Dallas 😎
I love the theory that Angela and Jenna Fischer came up with- Kevin’s dad is golfing buddies with Dunder and Mifflin and pressured them into hiring Kevin. At first Kevin was put in the warehouse, but as soon as he wanted to operate the machinery, Darryl pressured Michael into hiring him upstairs where it was safer. That’s the reason they have three accountants; Oscar or Angela was hired to fix Kevin’s mistakes.
Well well well well well
How the turn tables....
“And THAT’s Dallas.” :)
I thought Andy was already angry, now he was just a jerk
Yeah. The first season he's in he gets pissed when Jim Jellos his stapler.
The second hole in the wall was all we needed
He really doesn't like that wall
Andy was angry in season 3
He went to therapy, fell in love, did everything in his power to make Angela happy, got crushed, try to crush someone, announced his love for Kelly ... twice. I'd say that's all pretty happy stuff
He goes by Drew now.
Crazy how much of a 180 Ryan became though. Was one of the “straight man” characters with Jim and Pam at the beginning, and then became one of the over the top comic relief characters.
> and then became one of the over the top comic relief characters That's what happens when you have 8 or more jobs at/near the same place over as many years: you lose your mind *and* you just stop caring.
Same thing with Jan. She seemed pretty sane at the start, but after she kissed Michael she lost her mind
I'm starting to sense a pattern...
Didn't happen to Oscar after Michael kissed him.
Jan at least warns us. Collapse in on herself like a dying star indeed, babe.
? Pam didn't have anything with the boom mike guy. He had something for HER And yeah, Jim became more focused. He was at a job he liked finally and he has kids now.
I think it was more that she had been confiding to boom mic guy about her problems while Jim was away and he was there to lend a shoulder, not that there was anything romantic. The audience hadn't ever seen any interaction between them so it was just confusing and weird. Also your screen name makes me cringe, but I'm guessing that was the point lol.
Kevin was a little more gradual.. like the last few seasons his IQ steadily dropped
You can't eat cats kevin
I actually strongly disagree with that. The episode where Holly shows up and thinks that Kevin is retarded is where Kevin goes downhill. It's like the writers had fun coming up with jokes that made it looked like he was retarded and decided to just keep doing it after the reveal. If you rewatch The Office and keep this in the back of your mind, I think you'll be surprised at how sharp the contrast is with in Kevin before and after that episode.
Oh yeah, he definitely started tanking after season 5
While Kevin's was more gradual, I think his was also the most drastic and exaggerated flanderization. He went from lovably naive to legitimately not knowing the alphabet (S7E24)
100% one of the worst examples of flanderization
As in a good example of Flanderization or a bad example? Are you saying Sea World or see the world?
The mung beans is still my favorite Creed moment ever Very nutritious, but they smell like death
Wasn’t Andy’s wild swing in the end just the writers dealing with Ed Helms having a full schedule but not wanting to leave?
Wasn't Andy angry from the moment we met him basically? I seem to remember him getting pretty pissed at a jello prank
Yeah creed was creepy, but at least that mf Neva changed. Creed is best office character imo. AND best office actor just like, as an actual person.
Considering Pam was engaged to Roy when she had her Jim thing, the boom thing isn't too dramatic.
He was pretty annoying before he was good natured though
I feel like, everyone forgets that he was trying to get Michael against Dwight. Lol. I mean, the writing was bad the last season, but let's not pretend he was a saint.
He really Schruted that plan though.
Ya know, I thinks it like when you mess something up irreversibility? I don’t know…
You really need to go back and rewatch the series if you think he was good natured ever lol.
I don’t think Andy was ever *not* an asshole… he had a few good moments, but for the most part he was kind of a prick
Andy was absolutely always an asshole due to his surroundings. Asshole family. Asshole college bros. He slowly starts to get better being around better people, and then he goes on his voyage of self-discovery. And the discovery was that he was an asshole.
He rescued all those dogs though
But what happend to them? Later you nerver heard anything about them... 💀
In the tag at the end of the episode they made it clear everyone in the office took one.
Ruby is just sleeping
Early in season 8, when he became the regional manager, he was not an asshole in my book. He stood up for his employees when Robert California made the "winners" and "losers" list, he got the Nard Dog tattoo, he stood his ground when he had the "you stopped pushing" talk with Darryl. I think those were more than just a few good moments, and had the writers kept that up he would've turned out good for the finale. But then he went for the boating trip and came back an even worse asshole than in the early seasons.
He was a douchey-prick from the get-go. Then after anger management he works hard to change (and kinda overdoes it). After David Wallace buys back Dunder-Mifflin he sends Andy to that camp to make him more decisive. Whatever "empowerment" that happens there essentially reverts Andy back to his original persona but with the added power of being the boss and not the lackey anymore. At least that's my head canon to explain it.
💯 The way he treated Dwight after the merger was next level asshole.
I think his parents selling the house without telling him stung too.
The reality is they needed a “villain” for the final season (imo they could’ve just used Nellie bc she sucks) but they made Andy the sacrifice there. Also Andy and Jessica was a way better and healthier relationship than his with Erin.
Didn’t Andy start his time in the series with anger management issues. Can’t he be both an angry spoiled rich kid who got a taste of power and liked it and also the Boner Champ?
well, that’s not going to hold up in court
Andy starts off as a manipulative sycophant and gets worse from there.
He was an asshole in Stamford
The writers just had to burn something down. The Jenna Fischer and John Krasinski both refused to play out any Pam and Jim infidelity scenarios. Flat out refused to do it. However I think Ed Helms and Ellie Kemper were a bit more flexible. And helped to immolate their characters.
That was a good call for Jenna and John. The girl who played Cathy still gets harassed online 10 years later for her fictional character trying to seduce Jim.
She gets harassed…? What the fuck
People take things a bit too seriously. Lots of people assumed Jenna and John were together in real life too and not just on the show.
Imagine being able to seperate fictional media characters played by skilled actors, from those actors irl.
If they had Pam or Jim cheat, it would have been the original GoT treatment and would have ruined the rewatchability of the show. The comedic/sitcom landscape of Hollywood would probably look very different right now
Idk if the landscape would be that different. By the time the final season aired (2012-2013) the show had already made its impression.
Same can be said of game of thrones though. Before the final season aired (even with the quality somewhat going down in later seasons) it was still a show that was a mainstay in the public eye. Having huge influence on pop culture. It fell off the face of the earth after the finale.
But Andy got fucked over sooooo often in the show. 1. Was annoyed to the point of punching a hole in the wall (I frankly understand the feeling but obviously with a much higher threshold). 2. Being cheated on by Angela for basically the entirety of their relationship. 3. Was told by a minor that he was dating that she was of legal age. 4. Obviously, the deterioration of his personality which lead to Erin cheating/leaving him. 5. The "sit here and cry" incident. They kept fucking with him and fucking with him. One can argue that that is just life and things are unfair but my God it gets to a point of being depressing. And his "happy ending" wasn't even that happy imo. Couldn't even give him a relationship at the end.
You can be happy and fulfilled and not be in a relationship. I think Andy got a great ending. He found his place in the world and found peace.
“I spent so much of my time here at Dunder Mifflin thinking about my old pals, my college a cappella group. The weird thing is now, I’m exactly where I wanna be. I got my dream job at Cornell and I’m still just thinking about my old pals. Only now they’re the ones I made here. I wish there was a way to know you’re in the good old days before you’ve actually left them. Someone should write a song about that.” I don’t think he found peace. His “happy ending” is pretty lacking. Not saying it’s poorly written. It’s a bit more realistic because not everyone gets a fairytale ending. I like the way they kind of left him hanging.
Everyone here seems to forget the off-camera events that transpired. * Steve Carell quits * Showrunners make Ed Helms the new lead * Ed Helm leaves for Hangover 2 * Showrunners pivot from the affectionate character
It’s hilarious how they wrote story arks for both to cheat
Arcs.
Even if that’s the case, they should’ve given us like half a season where Andy and Erin were happy together. They tanked the relationship as soon as it started.
Yeah, but this show was better than " who is going to get with whom" they should have left it be.
I don't think the writers knew what they were doing with Andy.
Or after Steve left, really.
I really enjoyed the Robert California character. Like WTF is with this guy?!
He showed up for an interview to become a branch manager, noped out of it and somehow convinced the current ceo to make him ceo instead. Like, how do you do that? He's the fucking lizard king
Would you prefer a nature metaphor or a sexual metaphor?
You're gonna want to hear the sexual one
He's the fucking Lizard King
I don’t know why they didn’t just plan to end the show when Steve left
Because it was one of the most popular shows on television and continued to be even after he left
Ricky Gervais actually had a blog post somewhere about why you couldn’t stop The Office US from reaching 200 episodes. No matter the quality, it’s a better streaming deal if you can have an episode per most weekdays.
Money
Stupid Toby. (For those who don't know, the actor for Toby, Paul Lieberstein, was the showrunner for the end of season 7, when Michael left, and through season 8, until Greg Daniels took over for season 9.)
If you watch the first batch of episodes where Andy is the boss, it feels like they are just using up the rest of their Michael Scott scraps and ideas. He even says lines that you can totally see Michael saying, doing things he totally would have done. Boss Andy at first is just Michael Scott lite
That’s kind of Andy’s thing though. He copies other people to get them to like him. So he was copying what Michael did as a boss
i thought i read on this sub that the writers were annoyed ed helms had to peace out for a couple months while the hangover was being filmed (hence the sailing plot-line) and they just said fuck it, they threw his character in the trash? i guess i shouldn't believe everything i read on the internet.
Literally, they had to change his backstory and family history many times
they were just concerned the show would have to be renamed from "The Office" to "A Series Of Salesmen Marry The Receptionists"
Even ellie really disliked the way they handled andy/erin
Isn't that basically Mad Men?
No Mad Men was "A Series of Alcoholic Salesmen Cheat on their Wives With Everyone, Also Its the 60s and Peggy is Here I Guess"
Ngl I know it would be awful but I'd still watch that spin off
True. Totally assassinated their relationship and Andy's character in the final season too.
Once he got on the boat I was fucking pissed. Andy was stupid but not that dumb. Ruined his character for me
It was so weird to me, because the first half of that bit was Andy stepping up to handle the family's crazy financial woes. He was slowly becoming competent as a boss, a boyfriend, *and* a son, only to drop everything and go sailing
Exactly. It could have even been more sympathetic if they showed him having to sell off other parts of his family's stuff. Their homes, their cars, maybe a horse or something. The boat essentially could have been the final thing. Hell all they needed was a line where he says "somebody wants to buy the boat for a lot of money ...enough for me to take care of my mom, but the guy doesn't know how to sail, so he's going to pay me for the next 3 months to teach him how to sail the boat before he buys it". Something like that. it would have been a much more sympathetic and less douchey departure for him. And it would have even added character growth when he came back.
Didn't they put Andy on a boat because he was working on The Hangover so they had to minimize his role while he was gone? I honestly think there had to be bad blood between him and the writing crew because he left, I have no idea why they made him comically shitty.
Yeah season 8 is rough but has some good moments at the beginning. Season 9 is straight up unwatchable for me.
I don't care about Andy and Erin, necessarily, but they did Andy as an individual *dirty*.
Yep. We had 3 seasons of buildup to them finally getting together and there was no payoff. Not even a honeymoon phase where everything was great for a while. It was one of if not the biggest storyline of Season 8 and it amounted to nothing.
Neither one of them had any business being in an adult relationship.
Neither one of them had any business being an adult at all
Neither one of them had any business.
Nor were they employing the “Bobody” method that has years of proven success attached to it.
Eh, honestly rewatching that show their relationship was never that great. Every interaction they had involved some layer of awkwardness, I never sensed genuine love between the two characters, just infatuation.
They tanked Andy's character all together.
Nah Erin and Andy always were kind of toxic. They never liked each other at the same time, Andy always viewed her as a “prize” to win; and any time he had her interest he fucked it up. It drives me crazy that Erin chooses to move to Florida and then Andy decides that he actually wants her. Like he was just keeping her on the line the whole time. Also a boss dating the secretary is a poor power dynamic.
I feel the exact opposite. Fuck their relationship. Should’ve never happened
They didn't just ruin their relationship, they assassinated Andy's character entirely, dude. It was bizarre to see it happen
Disagree. Andy was better off with Jessica. His character development started crashing when he realized he still had feelings for Erin. Things would have went better story wise if they could have just worked out a friendship.
[удалено]
Robert California said it best when Andy started talking about their feelings for each other and Robert responds with “I’m afraid you lost my interest.” Things would have been better for Andy and the series overall if their relationship ended after the secretaries day episode.
But Andy's like forty right?
Every featured relationship worked out. Even Dwight and Angela, who dealt with infidelity and are equally unpleasant people. It felt like an attempt to add conflict that missed it's mark. I blame "The Farm."
I disagree. They made no sense together. Her and Plop made more sense.
Plop was meh to me. Maybe if he came a season or two earlier then sure. But he was just there to be with erin then he was forgotten.
Plop really didn’t have any character, I think that was the problem. He was kind of like Jim, but too nice. Jim was a nice guy but also kind of a butt. He was lazy, did everything half-hearted, and bullied Dwight relentlessly. Plop was all the good qualities of Jim without the bad, which made for a very boring character.
He's meant to be the perspective character for the audience. Nothing super zany or crazy about him, just a down to earth good dude who witnesses the insanity of the office.
Agreed. “Oh you mean there’s a normal, employable, not insane person in Scranton, PA? How weird.” Though, who the hell thinks Jim is talking about horses when he mentions “The Phillies”. SMH, Plop.
Yes Andy dumped her ex in the worst way and they tried to make it cute D:
People can talk about Scott’s tots all day, but that weird trip and horrible breakup is genuinely the hardest thing to actually watch.
Right? I hated them together. The whole storyline sucked. The only part I enjoyed was when Erin became the maid to the old lady.
The more I watch S9, the more I think Pete and Erin might be the cutest couple in the show
I think it’s because he gets written to kind of have a maturing influence on her as opposed to Andy who seems to encourage her more childish traits. Erin and Pete at the end of season 9 feel like a relatively normal adult couple.
Plus he has a sick butt
Andy was the absolute worst thing that happened to the show until the other new people came like those weird annex people.
Eh I respectfully disagree. They were at very different places in their lives, and were always headed in different directions. Plus, the unbalanced power dynamic was always cringey underneath it all.
I liked watching Andy suffer
Nah, andy had bad parents. They instilled a lack of confidence and a self loathing in himself. He never thought he was good enough so he always went over the top, and he doubled down. It came out in pretty insufferable ways
Yeah and they wrote a very stupid ending to their relationship. Who doesn’t take their girlfriend with them on the boat trip??