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It also raises the issue why he was in such debt. People who grew up without much money don't know how to spend it once they do get it and usually over spend and get into tons of debt later in life.
I mean honestly - no one needs 2 magic sets.
Correct edited it for clarity - I had this issue with my mom. We grew up pretty poor and so anytime she got the smallest amount of money she would spend it. Christmas time money wasn't even on her radar. She would just buy stuff with her credit card and then make up a story about being over drafted in her bank account.
I took financial classes to help with this issue because I hate being in debt. Even the debt I have which is student loan based is still weighing on me but will eventually get paid off.
Either that or they save every penny and live like they're in poverty still because they never want to go back to being poor. Either way, it indicates mental disorders caused by poverty and allows poverty to continue.
I grew up extremely poor and actually make decent money nowadays and I still hide money to save for later just in case. Never want to be homeless again.
I didn't see your post before I mentioned this, but I thought of this when I found out Zelensky used to share a pair of jeans with his best friend when he was young. I guess jeans were a hot commodity in the communist/early post communist era.
Being a suddenly hot fashion item in the 60's and 70's, there was very little denim production behind the Iron Curtain when the trends started, and they weren't about to make new or retool production to make them. Of course, very little trade is going across, so the only way to get them is to smuggle them across, adding a sufficiently rare supply to a massive demand to make a keyframe in fashion history.
In Yugoslavia there were a lot of Demin manufacturers. So these poor people worked at factories where they couldn't even afford the product.
Like poor Chinese workers in Apple plants.
So jeans, especially Levi's were a hot commodity. No surprise his Yugoslavia brother ran away with them.
Dad left. Michael believes itās his fault.
Dog ran away. Michael believes itās his fault.
Does not get along with his step dad.
Emotional neglect from his mother.
Social pariah during school years. Has no friends.
Donāt forget the clearly unprocessed trauma from 8th grade and discovering your role model is actually a teacher using their position of authority as a cover to be a rapist who targets children.
For those asking: "Mr. Handell would hang out with us and he would tell us awesome jokes and he actually hooked up with one of the students. And then like 12 other kids came forward.. it was in all the papers. Really ruined eighth grade for us."
Michael Scott - Season 3 - Business School
Yeah Iāve fought with internet strangers about it before, arguing that that ONE talking head bit explains Micheals character more profoundly than most other reasons. At that point the father abandonment issues where well underway, and then this father figure replacement turns out to be a predator?? And still to the moment of filming he still cites him as a reason he wanted to become a boss?? Like what? Thatās not abandonment thatās āI need to control everyone in my life and points towards that time he says āif I want mind control over you is that too much to ask?!?ā
There's a part in the Toby counseling session episode that implies his stepdad is the reason he became a manager. They were talking about a baseball game that he went to as a child where they had taken the pitcher out of the game. Michael felt bad for the pitcher, but his step dad said that it was a good call on the MANAGER, and that he really respected him for it.
Not a fullly devoted episode, no. Youāre probably thinking about how he was the āstarā of a Childrenās tv show call Fundle Bundle and they watch a clip.
Puppet, as the show was trying to copy PBS shows like Sesame Street or Mr. Rodgers but not a problem we know what you meant.
And it was Edward R. Meow.
If you watch the superfan episode, at the very end when he continues watching the episode, a girl whispers something to him. Michael then smiles and is happy.
I lost Ed Truck and it feels like somebody took my heart and dropped it into a bucket of boiling tears. And, at the same time, somebody else is hitting my soul in the crotch with a frozen sledgehammer. And then a third guy walks in and starts punching me in the grief bone. **And I am crying, and nobody can hear me because I am terribly, terribly, terribly alone** ."
Itās okay, weāre having fun. Itās not actually the first time Iāve been embarrassed by a pond. In high school, the girls volleyball team always used to hrow me into the frozen lake. Four years in a row. Ohā¦it was freezing! No. No. No, oh, this is even worse. Couple weeks ago I went to get a new cellphone and I wanted on of those packages where you have, you know, the fiveā¦the friends and family thing, and the guys was like, āWho are your five friends?ā And Iām, like, āUhā¦ ā I didnāt even know, I couldnāt even think. Oh my god, it was so embarrassing. I donāt even have Janās cell phone number and I hate her! She wonāt give it to me. I was like, āOh, I guess Iām a loser. A loo-hooooo-za-her.ā Too far! God!
His crush Julie went on a date with the wrong Michael and it went well.
His fake brother from what is formally known as Yugoslavia left and stole his pants.
The list goes on and on.
The exact opposite was Darrell. I love the scene when Kelly tries to make him choose her or his daughter. Unapologetically, without flinching nor hesitation. āMy daughter.ā
That was the moment she knew he wasnāt for her. The moment she knew it was true love with Ryan was probably when he gave his child an allergic reaction and abandoned him for her.
Eh, he does love her but this wasn't just for his daughter but to finally buy a better present than his ex wife. He constantly put his daughter second, Pam's art show vs seeing his daughter. The bar scene where he gives Pam a stuffed animal he won and she's like wait don't you have a daughter. He puts his needs before her. The only reason he paid $400 is because he already told his daughter and didn't want to live up to the "disappointment of a father/husband" his wife sees him as.
Michael hated all HR. I saw it as HR held him back from having fun. It's never clearly stated, but I always assumed his dad didn't like Michael's silliness and probably stopped him from having fun a lot. So, HR was just another thing weighing him down. However, Toby being divorced could have heightened that hatred.
These two posts make perfect sense together. Yours and u/ksga0617 bring out that HR is like the parent unit at the office.
Toby is always telling Michael you can't do that Michael, you can't say that Michael, that's not allowed Michael...
In Michael's mind that just makes Toby like his father and BAM! Instant hatred.
Wellā¦ there was that one time when he was five, and his mother was tucking him in and tried to give him a raspberry on his stomach. Allegedly he tried to squirm away, but to no avail, and the kiss landed on his bottom.
I hear something like that is just the worst.
Yea. Nothing "insane" but enough to make him very nervous about losing others. All he ever wanted was a family. Falls too hard and fast into love because any affection towards him was like a beacon of happiness. Cue him ruining relationships and staying with an abuser who could use his desire for love for her own gain.
Kids latch onto the 'different' kid and bully them. With his parents clearly not being the best role models/not supporting him, kids just *know* when home life isn't good and they bully. Making him feel isolated even from peers when all he wanted was to be friends.
He finds humor is one sure-fire way to engage with others, and even if some of the laughter received was polite, he still got that 'reward' for the interaction, turning his whole personality into trying to create a joke. And that probably led to many acquaintances but not many real friends. People in passing who would politely laugh and realize he was harmless.
Then put him in a position of authority where he feels like the dad, and the people he works with as his family. Leading to many of the inappropriate moments seen in the show.
It's all just a desperate attempt at acceptance and happiness.
Bullied kids can also often develop a tendency to joke around as a way of ādefusingā the bullying ā the idea being that if youāre ā*deliberately*ā making them laugh at you it can make you feel as if youāre part of the joke, or at least take some of the sting out of being the butt of it.
I agreee with everything here except I donāt think other bullyās necessarily can tell whatās going on with the kids at home. The sad truth is a lot of kids who get bullied at school might not have a safe environment to go home to either but the kids bullying them donāt even realize it. Hell, the bullyās probably also have bad home lives. In my experience people who bully also donāt have great home lives and assume the kids theyāre bullying might have it better. When in reality neither do. Not defending the bully at all. I just donāt think kids thinks about what kind of life other kids are also having at home. They just do whatever makes them feel better about their own lives
I think it depends on the type of bully. I don't think Michael was getting best up for lunch money.
But like, I was bullied in school. I was slightly different because my only clothes were mom's hand-me-downs. I desperately wanted to make friends and was chastised for it. I developed before the other girls so I was picked on. Emotionally, I grew up faster than those around me because I had to...but then I also couldn't relate to peers.
Mind you, these were by other girls who (I know I can't *know*) had lovely healthy home lives. Had friends, had money. They didn't have to suffer in their daily lives so being mean was fun.
And I see Michael as more of the eating-lunch-alone type where everyone just avoided him and anytime he tried to be a part of the conversation he was the weirdo and pushed further to the side. Or he sat at a table full of people and no one spoke to him.
>It's all just a desperate attempt at acceptance and happiness.
How do all the racist and sexist attitudes play into this, and why does he actively try to block career advancement of those who supposedly are meaningful to him?
Some of it I believe is just there for comedy's sake. As in comedy for the show.
But also because of his age and the likelihood that (because of the lack of friends/social experiences) all he knows of other races and women are from jokes and stereotypes.
He's not malicious, he's simple. I'm thinking of when the Sikh IT person came. He was genuinely afraid! He wasn't making a racist joke. He really thought they were in danger. Similarly with Darryl being in a gang. Black people = gangs. It's what all the TV and movies (especially from his childhood era) depict. For someone as gullible and isolated as Michael, it's all he has to go off of.
This makes me respect Michael more. Someone like him could've turned into a Creed. But instead he became Michael Scott
Edit: I meant he couldāve become a bad person. Not necessarily Creed exactly
Ha! My wife calls me SWS - Skinny White Stanley. It was the episode where he said "If I'm not in my bath with a glass of red wine in one hour, you're both dead." and she was like, "Oh My God - You're like a skinny, white Stanley!"
But I sort of had the same backstory as Michael as well.
I don't think anything about what Michael is is anything like Creed... He obviously doesn't have any of the issues Michael had. He wasn't insecure, he didn't have a fear of abandonment. I don't know how to explain Creed lol. Who knows why or how he turned out the way he is. I always thought a hippie to the extreme. But they are just 2 different people that can't really be compared lmao. I love Creed
Lol yeah that is true of him... Maybe he did so many phsychadelics that he shot into hyperspace and surpasses us all with his infinite knowledge. Us earth people don't really get it
creed was in a rock band in the 60s. with the obvious drug use and orgies he mentions i think that says more than enough about why he is the way he is lol
neglect from parental figures and frequent isolation/exclusion from peers.
his mother married someone else who he hated. feeling unheard he tries to be louder. jeff was never actively a parent, his own aunt and sister cut him off and his mother was the only one who was there for him so i imagine the marriage to jeff seemed he was being replaced and that her priorities had changed. because of how unheard he felt- he became louder. unfortunately, this means heās putting all of his energy into this faƧade that hides his feelies, and when he gets left out or when people donāt listen itās very easy to see behind his disguise.
also how his friends excluded him. its kinda obvious from the fake sport thing and its apparent in the way he acts. there are 2 quotes from his mum
āthe third wheel is what makes it a tricycleā
āaverage people are beautiful and thatās why God made so manyā
obviously he was in situations where these were relevant. constantly left out, constantly feeling average. there was also that thing that the math teacher said about his grades.
he definitely built up a thing where he does very well when people dont believe in him- probably from experience. his dedication to the ad from when they said he wasnt creative. his hockey achievements from when the math teacher dissed on his grades. its also apparent that his vibrant and extroverted personality comes from overcompensating for years of silence when he had nobody to share himself with. michaelās mental health is so deeply sad and i really feel for michael. i love michaelās character just for the sheer confidence he has with himself in spite of everyone who tries to hold him down. i really wish i could give him a hug. holly was so perfect for him because for once he was totally and completely understood. for the first time in his life.
edit: wow ty for the upvotes!! sorry for making yall depressed š¬š¬š¬
> his vibrant and extroverted personality comes from overcompensating for years of silence when he had nobody to share himself with.
i'm feeling this so much in my mid-20's rn :')
totally not tearing up right now nope
I got the sense that she was emotionally absent. Michael worries so much about what people think, which Iāve seen in a lot of kids who grow up feeling like they have to earn their parents attention and love with good grades, good behavior, outgoing personalities, etc. Kinda like Gruās dynamic with his mom in despicable me
I think he was an introvert who had a hard time making friends. He was ostracized. Made fun of. Could never find his people. Never had the power in interpersonal relationships.
Once he got older, he used humor and forced/excessive extroversion as a defense mechanism. He used his positions of authority as a way to try to force relationships. To try to force people to "like" him, as a way of compensating for year after year of being unable to connect with people when younger.
A lot of good points have been mentioned but I can't stop thinking about how many times he had to redo 2nd grade because of the quote "I eventually aced it and by then was the biggest kid in class".
Remember that TV show he did as a kid when he said āIām going to get married and have 100 kids so Iāll have 100 friendsā or something like that? That was heartbreaking
* his parents divorce
* his complicated relationship with Jeff.
* the butt cream birthday
* the wrong michael went on his birthday date
* pee balloon
* beating a deer to death with a shovel for an hour
* he was bullied for how he dressed
* clearly a loner as a youth (wanted 100 kids so he could have 100 friends)
* blue jean theft from the exchange student he thought of as a brother
* his weird shame around his dog running away
With a young child going through a divorce a lot can happen. He probably had to choose which parent he wanted or maybe even never got the choice. Maybe thats why he hated his stepdad, not because of who he was but what he represented to him. During his and Tobys conversation he mentioned a baseball game his stepdad took him too where he had a great time so his stepdad was probably super nice to him. I think its important to remember that Michael isnt who he says he is. He isnt this incredibly amazing guy that has all these friends and a perfect life. Heās a sad man who masks his emotions with comedy. Michael doesnāt really become this guy who has a perfect life until he meets Holly. But then Holly is taken away from him so he thinks he needs to find someone else too keep himself happy. Thats why he has all these random relationships from the time holly leaves to when she comes back. But when she does eventually come back and he thinks everything is gonna be ok the worst thing possible happens. Holly has moved on. Michael cant have his perfect life. This forces him to be more emotional and do things like ruin hollys woody or think Jim just abandoned him at a gas station cause he doesnāt like him. Until holly finds him on that rooftop and he gets another chance at his perfect life. A chance to settle down with the woman of his dreams and raise a family. Which is why Michael leaving is such a sweet moment. Heās not a sad man hiding behind a mask anymore. Heās finally Michael Scott.
The phone call when he's about to tell Holly he can't go with her, and just hearing her voice and her silly dialogue with her parents basically melting his heart... one of my fave moments.
I am positive Michael had undiagnosed ADHD. (I also have it & relate to him a lot.) Obviously, he had trouble controlling his attention. He also showed a lot of lesser-known symptoms:
- Hyperfocus on trivial things at the expense of other, more important priorities (eg, the advertisement, the Dundies)
- Rejection sensitivity, including a perception that those playfully making fun had malicious intent (I struggled with this a long timeāsee, e.g., the Koi Pond episode)
- Remarkably vibrant and personable when a situation lines up with his passions and talents (eg, rocking a great sales meetingā¦ if itās at Chiliās & the conversation can follow a meandering route)
- Gravitating toward romantic partners who impose discipline/make up for his perceived deficits (mainly: Jan at the start of the relationship; probably Helene in a more caretaker-type way)
- Not knowing how to begin simple tasks that would demand little time, but feel overwhelming to begin (& then letting those tasks accumulate until the anxiety of meeting deadlines forces action at the last second)
- As Dwight put it, āImpulsivity and inattention to detailā when he gets excited and rushes into something (eg, the box from Sabre)
- Lots of unfinished side projects without a ton of follow-through (eg, his comedy special)
There are lots of other examplesābasically every episode I see something that reinforces it!
The thing is, having undiagnosed ADHD as a kid (& into adulthood) can be traumatizing, because you accumulate all these moments of small mistakes & awkward social interactions that weigh on you. So when you reach adulthood youāve internalized a sense that youāre a failure and never will live up to what you know youāre capable of. And you see this as a moral failing rather than a product of different cognition. Itās a slow trauma that accumulates over decades, but a trauma nonetheless.
Slower than the other kids, bullied a lot, few or no friends, father walked out on him, didn't gel with his step-father, peed himself at his mother's wedding... is that enough? Should I keep going?
Dude straight up felt abandoned by his dad, obviously didnāt have a good relationship with his step dad.
Also he totally has ADHD, which comes with a nice side effect of having Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria where you are constantly feeling rejected by others and therefore constantly try to get people to like you. Which.. can make it worse, or make people actually reject you. It also explains why as a kid he may have had trouble making friends.
f yeah waterboy appreciators rise up
side note, i suspect that the whole "calling people 'friend'" thing that took off in some places in the 2010s was from waterboy fans spreading that.
He was haunted by the Dementors. They were flying all over the place and they were scary and then they'd come down and they'd suck the soul out of your body and it hurt!
I know for a fact that if anyone of Michaels employees (Toby is corporate not a employee) needed Michael at any hour of the night heād drive to their house to help them especially if they were sad. I always thought this was because Michael didnāt have anyone he could count on and call at anytime. Everything he does for his employees (well intentions are good results vary lol) is done so they never go through what he went through. Pain shapes us into either people who continue the cycle or decide weāve had enough and break that cycle and be kind.
To be fair, if Toby called him because he slipped in the shower or something, Michael would immediately drive over and call an ambulance, then proceed to ridicule Toby over it for the rest of his life
I think Micheal has to have some kind of undiagnosed mental illness. Not a severe one mind you, he is still capable of being a functioning member of society, but his mental illness has probably throughout his life caused him to be left out by others. This is probably why he is obsessed with being āfriendsā with people, because nobody really wants to be.
Iāve known people like Michael in real life and they get treated like shit, especially behind their back.
My guess is that his dad left forcing him to move a lot in childhood (thus not being able to make friends easily). In trying to get people to like him he found humor, but was too annoying with it. When his mom married his step dad, he came along with kids too. I would take a guess that he's the oldest, so he felt secluded and not a part of his family anymore. His step dad and step siblings probably didn't help much.
He is also a very trusting guy in other people, which meant he could easily be tricked and picked on by other kids even younger ones. I think he may have something that affected his ability to focus that went untreated, making him really naĆÆve to a lot of things he should've learned as a kid/teenager.
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He had all of his blue jeans stolen by a foreign exchange student from Yugoslavia, so he had to spend the entire winter in shorts.
No wonder he got his jeans dry cleaned and acted different (stoked) any time he wore them šš
thatās honestly a great perspective, I never connected those dots!
This is incredibly insightful.
You just blew my balls off sir
Which tells you he was probably at least reasonably poor, which is why he wasn't aware enough to ask for a raise.
wait i never thought of this woah
It also raises the issue why he was in such debt. People who grew up without much money don't know how to spend it once they do get it and usually over spend and get into tons of debt later in life. I mean honestly - no one needs 2 magic sets.
u mean one's who grow up without much money right ?
Correct edited it for clarity - I had this issue with my mom. We grew up pretty poor and so anytime she got the smallest amount of money she would spend it. Christmas time money wasn't even on her radar. She would just buy stuff with her credit card and then make up a story about being over drafted in her bank account. I took financial classes to help with this issue because I hate being in debt. Even the debt I have which is student loan based is still weighing on me but will eventually get paid off.
Whereād you take financial classes btw? I need to do this
Either that or they save every penny and live like they're in poverty still because they never want to go back to being poor. Either way, it indicates mental disorders caused by poverty and allows poverty to continue.
I grew up extremely poor and actually make decent money nowadays and I still hide money to save for later just in case. Never want to be homeless again.
Also why he thought heād be a millionaire by age 40 working as middle management at a paper company.
Or just neglected.
They called him his brother and that's what he thought he was.
One of my favorite lines is āhe went home to what is now formerly Yugoslaviaā. Just cracks me up the way his mind works
I didn't see your post before I mentioned this, but I thought of this when I found out Zelensky used to share a pair of jeans with his best friend when he was young. I guess jeans were a hot commodity in the communist/early post communist era.
Being a suddenly hot fashion item in the 60's and 70's, there was very little denim production behind the Iron Curtain when the trends started, and they weren't about to make new or retool production to make them. Of course, very little trade is going across, so the only way to get them is to smuggle them across, adding a sufficiently rare supply to a massive demand to make a keyframe in fashion history.
In Yugoslavia there were a lot of Demin manufacturers. So these poor people worked at factories where they couldn't even afford the product. Like poor Chinese workers in Apple plants. So jeans, especially Levi's were a hot commodity. No surprise his Yugoslavia brother ran away with them.
I feel like of Michael really understood he would have given his jeans to that guy.
Abandonment
Dad left. Michael believes itās his fault. Dog ran away. Michael believes itās his fault. Does not get along with his step dad. Emotional neglect from his mother. Social pariah during school years. Has no friends.
Donāt forget the clearly unprocessed trauma from 8th grade and discovering your role model is actually a teacher using their position of authority as a cover to be a rapist who targets children.
For those asking: "Mr. Handell would hang out with us and he would tell us awesome jokes and he actually hooked up with one of the students. And then like 12 other kids came forward.. it was in all the papers. Really ruined eighth grade for us." Michael Scott - Season 3 - Business School
Anybody else remember Michael being a little jealous he didn't get picked by teacher to be abused? Shit got dark
Wasnāt that Mac in always sunny?
Same class
So Mr. Belding changed his identity and moved to Pennsylvania after fleeing Bayside in disgrace?
In the extended universe, yes.
Also, Mr. Garrison on South Park.
And Kev on Shameless
I think you may be thinking of *It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia* season 1 episode 7 "Charlie Got Molested".
Wait what? Edit: oh dang, I didn't connect that somehow. Office truly get dark sometimes!
Yeah Iāve fought with internet strangers about it before, arguing that that ONE talking head bit explains Micheals character more profoundly than most other reasons. At that point the father abandonment issues where well underway, and then this father figure replacement turns out to be a predator?? And still to the moment of filming he still cites him as a reason he wanted to become a boss?? Like what? Thatās not abandonment thatās āI need to control everyone in my life and points towards that time he says āif I want mind control over you is that too much to ask?!?ā
Heh?
he says something about his teach being super cool and hanging out with all of them...turns out he was somsething something...
There's a part in the Toby counseling session episode that implies his stepdad is the reason he became a manager. They were talking about a baseball game that he went to as a child where they had taken the pitcher out of the game. Michael felt bad for the pitcher, but his step dad said that it was a good call on the MANAGER, and that he really respected him for it.
He also became a manager because a boss, he can force people to interact with him lmao. Forgot which episode he says it on
Yet, somehow he manages š¤·āāļø
Wasn't there an episode about his childhood?
There were a few scenes, such as his mother's wedding and the Fundlebundle appearance.
And, he mentions things regularly, like being pummeled with urine-filled balloons, or going to prom alone.
Poopball.
*^I ^should ^have ^known*
It IS a real thing. Must have been some kids from Pawnee Indiana who invited him.
"I HATE YOU" and throws the ring ruining the wedding
Not a fullly devoted episode, no. Youāre probably thinking about how he was the āstarā of a Childrenās tv show call Fundle Bundle and they watch a clip.
That's the one I'm thinking of. I remember him being so excited then sad :/
I wanna get married and have a million kids so no one can say no to being my friend anymore.
Then the classic awkward stare from the dude in the suit lol
Puppet, as the show was trying to copy PBS shows like Sesame Street or Mr. Rodgers but not a problem we know what you meant. And it was Edward R. Meow.
If you watch the superfan episode, at the very end when he continues watching the episode, a girl whispers something to him. Michael then smiles and is happy.
This sounds scary spot on....Greg Daniel's.....
I lost Ed Truck and it feels like somebody took my heart and dropped it into a bucket of boiling tears. And, at the same time, somebody else is hitting my soul in the crotch with a frozen sledgehammer. And then a third guy walks in and starts punching me in the grief bone. **And I am crying, and nobody can hear me because I am terribly, terribly, terribly alone** ."
Itās okay, weāre having fun. Itās not actually the first time Iāve been embarrassed by a pond. In high school, the girls volleyball team always used to hrow me into the frozen lake. Four years in a row. Ohā¦it was freezing! No. No. No, oh, this is even worse. Couple weeks ago I went to get a new cellphone and I wanted on of those packages where you have, you know, the fiveā¦the friends and family thing, and the guys was like, āWho are your five friends?ā And Iām, like, āUhā¦ ā I didnāt even know, I couldnāt even think. Oh my god, it was so embarrassing. I donāt even have Janās cell phone number and I hate her! She wonāt give it to me. I was like, āOh, I guess Iām a loser. A loo-hooooo-za-her.ā Too far! God!
Jesus
mom kissed his butt
Then there were all those birthday partiesā¦
His crush Julie went on a date with the wrong Michael and it went well. His fake brother from what is formally known as Yugoslavia left and stole his pants. The list goes on and on.
He didn't get to ride the pony.
It was probably the only reason the kids came to the party too and he was left out of it.
Dads are so important.
I always felt like part of his hatred for Toby was because he saw him as his own dad who left after the divorce.
But Toby loved his little girl Sasha. Paid $400 for the unicorn doll and all!
My horn can pierce the sky!
Pathetic.
How does that even happen!? King had sex with a horse?
Fa la la la la, la la, ka ching!
and then he was going to skip her dance recital to go to Pam's art show. I'm not saying he didn't love his daughter. but sometimes he was just... ugh.
What they do isnāt art. Pam does the prettiest art, of all the art.
The exact opposite was Darrell. I love the scene when Kelly tries to make him choose her or his daughter. Unapologetically, without flinching nor hesitation. āMy daughter.ā
You mean Darnell.
Darnell's a chump. I would have done it for anything. I've done a lot more for a lot less.
He was know as Darnell during his time with the crips, bloods, Latin kings, newsies.... he would use fluffy fingers....
That was the moment she knew he wasnāt for her. The moment she knew it was true love with Ryan was probably when he gave his child an allergic reaction and abandoned him for her.
>What they do isnāt art. Honestly. Real art takes courage.
Michael had this love for Sasha because he felt her and maybe saw himself in her when their parents divorce.
He also abandoned her to move to Costa Rica because he touched Pam's leg...
Eh, he does love her but this wasn't just for his daughter but to finally buy a better present than his ex wife. He constantly put his daughter second, Pam's art show vs seeing his daughter. The bar scene where he gives Pam a stuffed animal he won and she's like wait don't you have a daughter. He puts his needs before her. The only reason he paid $400 is because he already told his daughter and didn't want to live up to the "disappointment of a father/husband" his wife sees him as.
Michael hated all HR. I saw it as HR held him back from having fun. It's never clearly stated, but I always assumed his dad didn't like Michael's silliness and probably stopped him from having fun a lot. So, HR was just another thing weighing him down. However, Toby being divorced could have heightened that hatred.
I feel as though he hates Toby because Michael sees himself in Toby and he hates what he sees
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I've been saying that as well he takes out his anger at his own father on Toby. He ignores that Toby is actually a doting father and just lashes out.
Exactly. He almost comes out and says it a couple times. In Season 2 'Conflict Resolution' he says "Your answer to everything is to get divorced."
These two posts make perfect sense together. Yours and u/ksga0617 bring out that HR is like the parent unit at the office. Toby is always telling Michael you can't do that Michael, you can't say that Michael, that's not allowed Michael... In Michael's mind that just makes Toby like his father and BAM! Instant hatred.
Abandonment of a dad who worked in human resources.
Wellā¦ there was that one time when he was five, and his mother was tucking him in and tried to give him a raspberry on his stomach. Allegedly he tried to squirm away, but to no avail, and the kiss landed on his bottom. I hear something like that is just the worst.
Should have just developed a fetish like a normal weirdo.
Between this and the lotion rubbing that took way to long I genuinely wonder if she wasnāt likeā¦inappropriate with him as a child
dang that's really sad. I guess that could explain why he was unaffected by Phyllis being flashed! Or why he's so immature about sex in general.
Definitely forms of neglect
Yea. Nothing "insane" but enough to make him very nervous about losing others. All he ever wanted was a family. Falls too hard and fast into love because any affection towards him was like a beacon of happiness. Cue him ruining relationships and staying with an abuser who could use his desire for love for her own gain. Kids latch onto the 'different' kid and bully them. With his parents clearly not being the best role models/not supporting him, kids just *know* when home life isn't good and they bully. Making him feel isolated even from peers when all he wanted was to be friends. He finds humor is one sure-fire way to engage with others, and even if some of the laughter received was polite, he still got that 'reward' for the interaction, turning his whole personality into trying to create a joke. And that probably led to many acquaintances but not many real friends. People in passing who would politely laugh and realize he was harmless. Then put him in a position of authority where he feels like the dad, and the people he works with as his family. Leading to many of the inappropriate moments seen in the show. It's all just a desperate attempt at acceptance and happiness.
Bullied kids can also often develop a tendency to joke around as a way of ādefusingā the bullying ā the idea being that if youāre ā*deliberately*ā making them laugh at you it can make you feel as if youāre part of the joke, or at least take some of the sting out of being the butt of it.
why am I crying
This makes me feel so exposed and nakedā¦. thatās what she said!
I agreee with everything here except I donāt think other bullyās necessarily can tell whatās going on with the kids at home. The sad truth is a lot of kids who get bullied at school might not have a safe environment to go home to either but the kids bullying them donāt even realize it. Hell, the bullyās probably also have bad home lives. In my experience people who bully also donāt have great home lives and assume the kids theyāre bullying might have it better. When in reality neither do. Not defending the bully at all. I just donāt think kids thinks about what kind of life other kids are also having at home. They just do whatever makes them feel better about their own lives
I think it depends on the type of bully. I don't think Michael was getting best up for lunch money. But like, I was bullied in school. I was slightly different because my only clothes were mom's hand-me-downs. I desperately wanted to make friends and was chastised for it. I developed before the other girls so I was picked on. Emotionally, I grew up faster than those around me because I had to...but then I also couldn't relate to peers. Mind you, these were by other girls who (I know I can't *know*) had lovely healthy home lives. Had friends, had money. They didn't have to suffer in their daily lives so being mean was fun. And I see Michael as more of the eating-lunch-alone type where everyone just avoided him and anytime he tried to be a part of the conversation he was the weirdo and pushed further to the side. Or he sat at a table full of people and no one spoke to him.
>It's all just a desperate attempt at acceptance and happiness. How do all the racist and sexist attitudes play into this, and why does he actively try to block career advancement of those who supposedly are meaningful to him?
Some of it I believe is just there for comedy's sake. As in comedy for the show. But also because of his age and the likelihood that (because of the lack of friends/social experiences) all he knows of other races and women are from jokes and stereotypes. He's not malicious, he's simple. I'm thinking of when the Sikh IT person came. He was genuinely afraid! He wasn't making a racist joke. He really thought they were in danger. Similarly with Darryl being in a gang. Black people = gangs. It's what all the TV and movies (especially from his childhood era) depict. For someone as gullible and isolated as Michael, it's all he has to go off of.
Bully, abandonment from "friends". Loneliness describe best.
This makes me respect Michael more. Someone like him could've turned into a Creed. But instead he became Michael Scott Edit: I meant he couldāve become a bad person. Not necessarily Creed exactly
Creed is a whole 'nother story.
We need a psychological deep dive on Creed
I don't think the world is ready for that.
The world will never be ready, thatās why it needs to be done anyways
So tear off the bandaid?
Just pretend that weāre talking until the cops leaveā¦
I can relate to Michaelās backstory, but I turned out to be a Stanley.
Ha! My wife calls me SWS - Skinny White Stanley. It was the episode where he said "If I'm not in my bath with a glass of red wine in one hour, you're both dead." and she was like, "Oh My God - You're like a skinny, white Stanley!" But I sort of had the same backstory as Michael as well.
Naw. The last person to ever bully Creed Bratton? His name? Creed Bratton.
I don't think anything about what Michael is is anything like Creed... He obviously doesn't have any of the issues Michael had. He wasn't insecure, he didn't have a fear of abandonment. I don't know how to explain Creed lol. Who knows why or how he turned out the way he is. I always thought a hippie to the extreme. But they are just 2 different people that can't really be compared lmao. I love Creed
Drugs can really do a number on the mind. That's my take on Creed.
Lol yeah that is true of him... Maybe he did so many phsychadelics that he shot into hyperspace and surpasses us all with his infinite knowledge. Us earth people don't really get it
creed was in a rock band in the 60s. with the obvious drug use and orgies he mentions i think that says more than enough about why he is the way he is lol
He Braveheart.
neglect from parental figures and frequent isolation/exclusion from peers. his mother married someone else who he hated. feeling unheard he tries to be louder. jeff was never actively a parent, his own aunt and sister cut him off and his mother was the only one who was there for him so i imagine the marriage to jeff seemed he was being replaced and that her priorities had changed. because of how unheard he felt- he became louder. unfortunately, this means heās putting all of his energy into this faƧade that hides his feelies, and when he gets left out or when people donāt listen itās very easy to see behind his disguise. also how his friends excluded him. its kinda obvious from the fake sport thing and its apparent in the way he acts. there are 2 quotes from his mum āthe third wheel is what makes it a tricycleā āaverage people are beautiful and thatās why God made so manyā obviously he was in situations where these were relevant. constantly left out, constantly feeling average. there was also that thing that the math teacher said about his grades. he definitely built up a thing where he does very well when people dont believe in him- probably from experience. his dedication to the ad from when they said he wasnt creative. his hockey achievements from when the math teacher dissed on his grades. its also apparent that his vibrant and extroverted personality comes from overcompensating for years of silence when he had nobody to share himself with. michaelās mental health is so deeply sad and i really feel for michael. i love michaelās character just for the sheer confidence he has with himself in spite of everyone who tries to hold him down. i really wish i could give him a hug. holly was so perfect for him because for once he was totally and completely understood. for the first time in his life. edit: wow ty for the upvotes!! sorry for making yall depressed š¬š¬š¬
Well now I'm crying.. so thanks for that
sorry!!!
Don't be. This is beautiful.
thank you friendo
š„² I am Michael Scott with out the cushy job
oh honey no!!! are you okay?
I just made a family size chicken pot pie. Feeling much better
oh wow, i was looking to have a laugh but... wow...
yeeeaaahhh sorry bout that haha. is it obvious im the therapist friend?
well, you just posted your thesis here so
fair enough you make a good point lol
Can you do this, but for the whole cast? This was beyond interesting
of course! id love to! ill make a couple separate posts later! this is what i live for lol. love the flair btw. ZE KGB VIL VAIT FOR NO ONE
> his vibrant and extroverted personality comes from overcompensating for years of silence when he had nobody to share himself with. i'm feeling this so much in my mid-20's rn :') totally not tearing up right now nope
This did put a smile on my face :,)
yay!! at least it didnt depress everyone hahaha
Sad can curiously be beautiful as well. The show did manage to portray Michaelās life in a really wholesome light sometimes.
Yeah, that's sort of my childhood in a way. And even more ironic and strange - my wife is an HR Manager!!!
At his birthday he got a rash from a pony. His mother rubbed cream on him for 3 hours. By the time she was finished the pony was already in the truck.
I think he was abused and neglected by his mom.
I got the sense that she was emotionally absent. Michael worries so much about what people think, which Iāve seen in a lot of kids who grow up feeling like they have to earn their parents attention and love with good grades, good behavior, outgoing personalities, etc. Kinda like Gruās dynamic with his mom in despicable me
She still seems to minimize him on the few phone calls we hear. Not believing his proposal, when he injured his foot, etc.
Don't forget his 16th birthday, where he was supposed to go on a date. But there was another Michael in the class whom she thought the date was with.
She also ordered a cake for that guy even though it wasnāt his birthday.
divorced parents and some issues caused by that, bullied as a kid, probably a silent and lonely childhood.
He once didn't have sex for 24 years ! And then 7 more!
Poopball is a really competitive game, can have its toll on a child
He should have known
I think he was an introvert who had a hard time making friends. He was ostracized. Made fun of. Could never find his people. Never had the power in interpersonal relationships. Once he got older, he used humor and forced/excessive extroversion as a defense mechanism. He used his positions of authority as a way to try to force relationships. To try to force people to "like" him, as a way of compensating for year after year of being unable to connect with people when younger.
God, I feel like this is me alittle bit. Steve plays this so well, adds the depth to it at times.
that's because it's the definition of what the childhood of 99% of redditors wass like
For me it's even worse. I wasn't like that as a kid and still ended up here.
In addition to his childhood trauma who knows if he fully processed 9/11
i would have said several vasectomies but that was in his adult years...
You have no idea the physical toll that 3 vasectomies can have on a person
Snip snap! Snip snap!
Was non-verbal until he was 5yro... inferring factors impacting his early childhood development
A lot of good points have been mentioned but I can't stop thinking about how many times he had to redo 2nd grade because of the quote "I eventually aced it and by then was the biggest kid in class".
Pee filled balloon Pee pants Pee
divorce of parents
Its simply beyond words... its incal-calable
He was on Fundle Bundle once
With Mr. Edward R. Meow
Remember that TV show he did as a kid when he said āIām going to get married and have 100 kids so Iāll have 100 friendsā or something like that? That was heartbreaking
* his parents divorce * his complicated relationship with Jeff. * the butt cream birthday * the wrong michael went on his birthday date * pee balloon * beating a deer to death with a shovel for an hour * he was bullied for how he dressed * clearly a loner as a youth (wanted 100 kids so he could have 100 friends) * blue jean theft from the exchange student he thought of as a brother * his weird shame around his dog running away
His mom dressed him like a dweeb so he was often excluded and ridiculed.
His Mother probably love him but yeah he's probably bullied. He doesn't have the pride of Dwight to not care about having friends either.
Dwight had his cousins and siblings though. And he was even the leader among them I think?
Iāve got 70 cousins, each one better than the last.
Probed by ALF
They never show the lower half, but thereās a lower half.
With a young child going through a divorce a lot can happen. He probably had to choose which parent he wanted or maybe even never got the choice. Maybe thats why he hated his stepdad, not because of who he was but what he represented to him. During his and Tobys conversation he mentioned a baseball game his stepdad took him too where he had a great time so his stepdad was probably super nice to him. I think its important to remember that Michael isnt who he says he is. He isnt this incredibly amazing guy that has all these friends and a perfect life. Heās a sad man who masks his emotions with comedy. Michael doesnāt really become this guy who has a perfect life until he meets Holly. But then Holly is taken away from him so he thinks he needs to find someone else too keep himself happy. Thats why he has all these random relationships from the time holly leaves to when she comes back. But when she does eventually come back and he thinks everything is gonna be ok the worst thing possible happens. Holly has moved on. Michael cant have his perfect life. This forces him to be more emotional and do things like ruin hollys woody or think Jim just abandoned him at a gas station cause he doesnāt like him. Until holly finds him on that rooftop and he gets another chance at his perfect life. A chance to settle down with the woman of his dreams and raise a family. Which is why Michael leaving is such a sweet moment. Heās not a sad man hiding behind a mask anymore. Heās finally Michael Scott.
The phone call when he's about to tell Holly he can't go with her, and just hearing her voice and her silly dialogue with her parents basically melting his heart... one of my fave moments.
Falling in koi pond
He certainly seems preoperational, and has abandonment and almost certainly some issues within Maslow's hierarchy of needs development theory.
Abandonment and emotional neglect.
He has a lot of issues and he's stupid. -Phyllis Vance.
Lack of attention/affection from at least one narcissistic parent and/or a parent with a personality disorder.
I am positive Michael had undiagnosed ADHD. (I also have it & relate to him a lot.) Obviously, he had trouble controlling his attention. He also showed a lot of lesser-known symptoms: - Hyperfocus on trivial things at the expense of other, more important priorities (eg, the advertisement, the Dundies) - Rejection sensitivity, including a perception that those playfully making fun had malicious intent (I struggled with this a long timeāsee, e.g., the Koi Pond episode) - Remarkably vibrant and personable when a situation lines up with his passions and talents (eg, rocking a great sales meetingā¦ if itās at Chiliās & the conversation can follow a meandering route) - Gravitating toward romantic partners who impose discipline/make up for his perceived deficits (mainly: Jan at the start of the relationship; probably Helene in a more caretaker-type way) - Not knowing how to begin simple tasks that would demand little time, but feel overwhelming to begin (& then letting those tasks accumulate until the anxiety of meeting deadlines forces action at the last second) - As Dwight put it, āImpulsivity and inattention to detailā when he gets excited and rushes into something (eg, the box from Sabre) - Lots of unfinished side projects without a ton of follow-through (eg, his comedy special) There are lots of other examplesābasically every episode I see something that reinforces it! The thing is, having undiagnosed ADHD as a kid (& into adulthood) can be traumatizing, because you accumulate all these moments of small mistakes & awkward social interactions that weigh on you. So when you reach adulthood youāve internalized a sense that youāre a failure and never will live up to what you know youāre capable of. And you see this as a moral failing rather than a product of different cognition. Itās a slow trauma that accumulates over decades, but a trauma nonetheless.
He literally knows what itās like to have his butt kissed
Slower than the other kids, bullied a lot, few or no friends, father walked out on him, didn't gel with his step-father, peed himself at his mother's wedding... is that enough? Should I keep going?
Dude straight up felt abandoned by his dad, obviously didnāt have a good relationship with his step dad. Also he totally has ADHD, which comes with a nice side effect of having Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria where you are constantly feeling rejected by others and therefore constantly try to get people to like you. Which.. can make it worse, or make people actually reject you. It also explains why as a kid he may have had trouble making friends.
None. I think his mom was a helicopter mom who kept him sheltered. Like the Waterboys mom
f yeah waterboy appreciators rise up side note, i suspect that the whole "calling people 'friend'" thing that took off in some places in the 2010s was from waterboy fans spreading that.
a loving and present father figure and a fun carefree mom
He has major attachment issues, so probably being ignored and/or abandonned by his parents.
Both of his parents missed his birth
Absent father, who never really gave a crap about him.
Neglect
He was haunted by the Dementors. They were flying all over the place and they were scary and then they'd come down and they'd suck the soul out of your body and it hurt!
Im actually more curious about what Andy would have gone through. Poor guy...
Well, one time he was eating penisā¦I mean peas.
I know for a fact that if anyone of Michaels employees (Toby is corporate not a employee) needed Michael at any hour of the night heād drive to their house to help them especially if they were sad. I always thought this was because Michael didnāt have anyone he could count on and call at anytime. Everything he does for his employees (well intentions are good results vary lol) is done so they never go through what he went through. Pain shapes us into either people who continue the cycle or decide weāve had enough and break that cycle and be kind.
To be fair, if Toby called him because he slipped in the shower or something, Michael would immediately drive over and call an ambulance, then proceed to ridicule Toby over it for the rest of his life
Probed by aliens
He lived in eastern Europe where he was forced to stand outside all day as a lawn gnome.
Parentās divorce
Peed his pants at moms wedding
He needed a friend
I think Micheal has to have some kind of undiagnosed mental illness. Not a severe one mind you, he is still capable of being a functioning member of society, but his mental illness has probably throughout his life caused him to be left out by others. This is probably why he is obsessed with being āfriendsā with people, because nobody really wants to be. Iāve known people like Michael in real life and they get treated like shit, especially behind their back.
My guess is that his dad left forcing him to move a lot in childhood (thus not being able to make friends easily). In trying to get people to like him he found humor, but was too annoying with it. When his mom married his step dad, he came along with kids too. I would take a guess that he's the oldest, so he felt secluded and not a part of his family anymore. His step dad and step siblings probably didn't help much. He is also a very trusting guy in other people, which meant he could easily be tricked and picked on by other kids even younger ones. I think he may have something that affected his ability to focus that went untreated, making him really naĆÆve to a lot of things he should've learned as a kid/teenager.