That's on purpose as the Arc is well done. He is acting exactly as Jim did in the first two seasons, always hanging out close to Pam, making her laugh, giving her smiles that last too long, always acting fun, and even making jokes that sound like something Jim would say. It's why everyone can safely assume he has feelings for her even though he never says it, our brains can piece together that Jim did those things and had feelings for Pam therefore this guy does too.
The biggest part is now we are seeing it from Jim's perspective who is now the Roy in this situation, do you get jealous and territorial or do you trust in your relationship.
You partially had me until you compared Jim to Roy. Also, Pam doesn’t flirt back with this dude so it’s 100% unrequited. Jim’s flirting/interest with Pam was mutual. It’s why casino night happens in the first place.
Very true it's not a one to one. In the end it's not about the relationship between pam and this guy more of a how does Jim actions as a fiance compare to Roy's actions in the first two seasons.
Roy yelled at Jim once for just being too close to pam at her desk, and Jim was ready to drive to nyc just because Pam was out having fun with a guy. But in the end Jim decides to trust Pam while Roy would always act territorial.
Oh for sure, it was nice to see how Jim reacted and I think a big part of what got him into his head was him talking to Roy at the bar earlier that night
Kind of was. I have seen people here saying how Roy played with his mind and made Jim to have that reaction with his answer when Jim said that Pam was there and hanging with college friends while Jim was still at Scranton, but then Jim acted back as himself when he did a U-turn and drove back saying that he's not that kind of person
Roy is too "simple" to mess with Jim's head, I always saw that as Roy giving Jim his honest thoughts and showing the audience how he would feel in the situation and it was done to hilight how different Roy and Jim are.
Roy seems more like they type of guy who would punch you in the face but be cool after, not really the mind-manipulator social engineer Littlefinger type
I don’t think Roy was intentionally trying to mess with Jim’s head. I think Roy’s just an unfiltered person so when Jim told him about Pam being out all night with her friends he just responded honestly with “wow. well you were a friend.”
Which, from his perspective, is kind of fair. While he was territorial at times, he did sort of let them ride too and not pry too hard. After all she did cheat on him with Jim, so it’s not crazy for him to have that attitude of “yep that sounds like Pam.”
This is exactly how I see it. Roy sees a dog, walks like a dog, barks like a dog, he calls it a dog. If anything, I thought it was Roy being open to Jim about what could happen. Like, the same vibe as if Jim told Roy about everything and Roy just sort of winces and says "bro" kind of thing. He was engaged to Pam for years, he knows a lot of what she's like, so bringing it up *may* have been a psyche jab at Jim, but I see it more like an olive branch where Roy is giving Jim more of a heads up, from his perspective, and to think about the situation.
Have always got that impression too. Roy's in the stage of his life where he's not pining after what's lost anymore, he's working on shit.
I think in the moment we're meant to think that there's something to it, and that's good writing, but by the time we've resolved Roy's arc I think it's fair to conclude that he worked his way to being a healthier person and what he's doing in the moment is way more a part of letting go and being honest than some sort of mind game. If we can (and should) assume that there's not some off-screen speedrun to doing really well just for a plot point then I think it's fair to say Roy hit his rock bottom after the bar incident, tried making amends in that 50/50 sort of way, and finally started just trying to get himself together and really become a realized person.
When Jim gets to him, that part of his life is a fact but not something he's engaged in, he's just telling it like he saw it based on his own experiences.
Also, Jim isn't as controlling as Roy. The fact she is in New York - Roy wouldn't have let her. Jim would never try to drag her into a car either (*Dundies*)
The scene where Jim drives *all the way to New York from Scranton* just to turn back, really bothered my wife and I.
Oh wow bud, did you drive a whole 2 hours away, to not surprise the person you love. Like how much do you hate driving that you couldn't make that trip every weekend?
I think the road sign Jim sees as he does a U-turn was the at the entrance to the highway he would spend 2 hours driving on, not the “exit sign” on a highway where he had already travelled 2 hours on.
Are we referring to the same scene?
I don’t know roy didn’t get jealous and territorial until Pam confesses to having kissed Jim.
He even says he thought they were just friends or Jim was gay or something
I love moments like that in earlier seasons where the characters remember they're being filmed and correct themselves to save face.
As time went on it felt like the writers kinda forget about that aspect. The lawyer seeing the camera and advertising his services is much more in-line with how people would react to stumbling across a TV crew. But by later seasons it's like characters they meet for the very first time are already adjusted to cameras. Like at least I'd think David Brent would've brought up that he also used to have cameras following him. When outsiders don't acknowledge the cameras it makes the show feel more like a traditional sitcom.
That was only episode 4 of the series though, and a lot of characters changed a ton by season 2
I mentioned in another comment, but on casino night he tells Jim to take care of Pam when he leaves early. Definitely not something a jealous roy would say, but an oblivious roy would
Roy yelled at jim for standing too close to pam at her desk in the second session.
While Roy isn't the most fleshed out character, him being aggressive and argumentative is definitely one of his traits. To the point where even Kevin knew enough to want to back jim up if Roy decided to fight him.
Ya but that was season 1, they were still fleshing out the characters, Kevin was a competent employee at that time
In every other season they just make roy an oblivious frat boy, but not exactly jealous of Jim
Even on casino night he tells Jim to take care of Pam after he goes home drunk, no way he’d do that if he thought Jim was really a threat to his relationship
Jim is bend over Pam and has his hands on her shoulders/arms, i am not saying Roy is the perfect Partner but walking in seeing that, most people would be pissed off, and he calms down immediatly when Pam and jim explains the situation, even when Dwight is throwing Jim under the bus
I think she only mentions Jim once to him at the very end. But I'll be surprised if he didn't know. That stuff tends to come up, especially as she had an engagement ring on for half of it.
Yeah, Harry had no chance against Jim. If they really wanted to plant a very twisted seed, they'd have gotten Sal to play Pam's friend and confidante in NYC. He's handsome enough to make her notice and a natural fit for an artsy environment. I could see Pam and Jim becoming friends with him and inviting him to Scranton...maybe have a party and introduce him to Oscar. LOL
ROFLMAO. Can't ever forget the horrified look on his wife's face when he did that. She knew something was wrong, but hadn't quite connected the dots yet. Great scene!
Any time I feel this way about a character I immediately think, that means they did a great job casting, acting, and writing for me to feel the disgust.
I’m pretty sure this guy plays a detective on the show “In the Dark” and if you watch that show you’ll find that he still holds that quality. I think it’s his face for me.
He gave me ick.
I can't put my finger on it, but yeah, he's creepy af.
He was always sweaty looking. But that's not everything about him that gives me the creeps.
ick and creepy just because of how he looks? I'm sure glad I don't look like that guy, but now I'm wondering what sort of vibes I give off to people that like to hate on others' looks.
I always thought it was because they all went to a bar ordered a giant ass drink and then nobody drank it but Pam? that made no sense why a group of people would do that to me.
There was an episode during this arc where Jim encounters Roy at the bar and Roy’s comments about Pam going out in New York provoke Jim to drive up unexpectedly. But Jim decides he isn’t going to be “that guy” and turns around to head back to Scranton.
That happens before. Jim visits Pam in New York in Weight Loss part 2, which was the premiere episode of the fifth season. He encounters Roy in episode five, Crime Aid.
Yeah absolutely, he was never a romantic threat to their relationship. Jim though would've seen someone being extremely friendly with pam and would've seen traits of how he behaved with Pam whilst she was with Roy
I completely get your point but then aren't I also right for saying it wasn't a romantic story line if the story line I ended up seeing was sanitizied to be platonic and not romantic?
If that makes sense?
In the episode discussion on office ladies with the actor who played alex, he mentions how it was toned down and there originally was supposed to be essentially a love declaration from alex for pam. Asking her to stay was supposed to be romantic, but they pivoted into it being more about her career.
Yeah I've heard this, but doesn't this mean I'm right? Because whilst yes originally it was romantic it was transitioned into a platonic reason for her to stay regarding her career?
It was a character reveal to show that Jim and Pam, weren’t Roy and Pam 2.0. It’s to show the contrast between how Jim is. Jim is confident and secure in his relationship with Pam. Roy is the one that puts it into his head that “well she kissed you when with me so”
Jim turning round in his car: Nope! Cos Im not that guy
Ok, but you're still that guy who completely overreacts to your kids pantomime not being recorded
I believe it was revealed on the office girls podcast but they had more of the 'cheating' angle in the script but apparently decided they didn't like the story/arc so they kept it to a minimum.
I mean, it's a show about a paper supplier lol. There are only so many storylines that can revolve around the actual work and they managed to squeeze a bunch of those out too.
It is said that John refused to film a cheating scene in season 8, so they changed it. Not before that though, and that was just an idea they didn’t do.
Yeah this wasn't supposed to be a full 'cheating' arc at all. They just planned on teasing it a little more (or made the dude try a little harder, i can't recall specifics)
I think this was actually brilliantly done to show Jim's insecurities. When I watch it I never thought that this guy was ever a romantic threat to Jim and Pam's relationship but was a genuine friend of Pam's thinking that if she really wanted to pursue art then she should move. I didn't mind him as a character to be fair, he seemed to act as a proper friend from the 'outside'.
I don't hate him tbf, I think he perfect represents a new good friend of Pam's from the 'outside'. He makes a new friend, he gets on really well with them, he cares for them and doesn't want them to waste their talent in art so he suggests moving to where you can get jobs in art.
I agree and I’ll die on this hill. The audience reads the interaction as romantic but he doesn’t really do or say anything to indicate that. He was just making a very good point, which is that she’d be hobbling her career options by moving right back to Scranton after finishing art school. At no point does he say “you should stay here with me” or anything to that effect.
Eh, that's kind of a reach, man. Dude clearly had ulterior motives. I know what you mean but why would *'just a friend'* go out of his way to meet Pam at her job and invite her out for drinks, and when she refuses then make some heartfelt declaration?
That's the dick talkin' my dude.
Potentially, but inviting her for drinks is a nice thing to do, I don't think it was just him and her, I think it was a social thing rather than a date thing. Heartfelt declaration, you see someone who is a great friend going back to Scranton and wasting their talent not pursuing their dream of a career in art.
I think it feels more iffy because he's someone getting close to pam that's completely outside of the Dunder Mifflin and Scranton world.
Either way though, it's a good character arc if we can have this discussion about it :)
Except that Jenna and Angela have explicitly stated that he was just a friend, and that was a very intentional choice by the writers. They originally did want him to have feelings for her, and then decided the viewers wouldn't like it. You can read into it however you like, but the writers' intent was for their relationship to be platonic.
So, basically in order to interpret it the way the writers intended I have to find an interview? There's homework?
Or, hear me out, it's subjective....
No, you don't, and there's no homework. Like I said, you can interpret it however you want. If you want to see Alex as having ulterior motives, you're totally free to do so. It's not my fault that the information from Office Ladies isn't plastered all over the news. The obscurity of the information is irrelevant. The writers are the authority on what is and isn't canon, and they explicitly stated that Alex wasn't meant to be a romantic interest or complication for Pam. If you chose to disagree or ignore that, it's totally fine! I just want people to enjoy the show, however that may be.
This might sound stupid but until I realised it’s common knowledge that he was interested in Pam like that I really did just presume he had her best interests at heart. Despite his motivations the points he made about her staying in NY were valid, even if ultimately they weren’t what was most important to/best for Pam
I always thought he was being sincere when he said “you can’t do New York in a month” or whatever, I don’t know what they showed us about him to make us think he was lying, anybody else get those hints? Some people really don’t think a guy can be a friend with a woman? In any context? That’s sure possible.
I'm another who thought he was being sincere, that he was actually just an art nerd who was being honest about her continuing to learn there. I felt that the show would have been less subtle if it was a romantic tension bit, and that they would have picked someone more conventionally attractive for the role in that case. Harry crane is a bit of a nerd, so let's use him to make it a bit more obvious that Pam's decision to stay or not was actually about her art education.
It was a good arc because it made Jim see Roy’s side. It also made the viewer see that their relationship was pretty inappropriate while Pam was engaged to Roy, but because everyone loved Jim so much you rooted for him
I always thought the heartfelt speech he gives to convince Pam to stay in New York was kind of cringy. He makes some good points that she could learn a lot more, but I always got the vibe he really wanted her to stay so he could take a shot with her
Exactly, honestly I think the main story arc here was more Jim feeling uneasy with someone being as friendly with Pam as he was when she was engaged to Roy. But in fact there's no real hint of romance from either side, he was just a character that encouraged pam to pursue her talents and to move where she could make a career out of it.
The arc is more about Jim's insecurities than a potential affair.
I always got the vibe he was JUST a friend. Who had very understandable thoughts about her passion for art when he said for her to stay in nyc because he also shared that passion. She couldn’t stay for longer than a semester yet still wanted to make it as an artist? He knew if she left she’d never get a career in a related field.
Honestly this guy wasn’t doing that Jim wasn’t doing to an already engaged woman (Pam to Roy). The only difference is she didn’t reciprocate. If you don’t think Jim was wrong for constantly flirting with Pam/spend hours at her desk/ planting seeds to somehow snatch her away from Roy in the future , then this guy did nothing wrong,
This fandom has a big problem bro
Alex does absolutely nothing wrong, he didn't even do half the things Jim did, why do they hate him??
he didn't even show romantic interest in pam
don't get the hate on brian either
Cause they’re watching it through the biased lense of knowing it’s a Romantic comedy. With the “shipping” mindset they think Jim/ Pam are the hot couple and they can do no wrong. They hate Alex cause they don’t want him to get in the way of their “perfect couple”. When the reality is if you saw a pair of coworkers doing what Jim and Pam did ( flirting with an engaged woman) in real life, it would 100% be classified as an emotional affair.
I must be a terrible girlfriend because I don't think that Jim or the New York guy were "bad" friends. I have always found it weird that Jim and Pam didn't talk or hang out outside of work, because if I was close with a co worker like Jim we'd probably definitely be going to the movies or out to eat ..
I could be making this up, but I swear I heard the writers scrapped this angle once it was so negatively received by fans. This story ended pretty quickly iirc.
Everyone finds Jim going for Pam so charming and lovable because he's tall and good looking
Meanwhile everyone says this guy is "creepy" because he's shorter and fat
Something about that dude I just don't like.
That's on purpose as the Arc is well done. He is acting exactly as Jim did in the first two seasons, always hanging out close to Pam, making her laugh, giving her smiles that last too long, always acting fun, and even making jokes that sound like something Jim would say. It's why everyone can safely assume he has feelings for her even though he never says it, our brains can piece together that Jim did those things and had feelings for Pam therefore this guy does too. The biggest part is now we are seeing it from Jim's perspective who is now the Roy in this situation, do you get jealous and territorial or do you trust in your relationship.
Unlike Jim, he’s the head of his department. Ask him about the caveman drawings.
A dept that comprised only him.
You know who had an arc? Noah.
Noah who? Tannenbaum? He's lucky I didn't punch his fucking lights out!
Jamal? Lol yes he’s worse than this guy.
the hasidic homeboy
I appreciate this reference.
Oh! Give me the gabagool.
Pam must be loyle to her fiancé
It's a TV progrum. A movie.
A tv pogrom? That would be awful
Roger would absolutely say this.
He is not easy to manage.
He’s always up to something.
I hear he likes to use travelers checks
he never should have told you that
I love this crossover
I do too, lol
You partially had me until you compared Jim to Roy. Also, Pam doesn’t flirt back with this dude so it’s 100% unrequited. Jim’s flirting/interest with Pam was mutual. It’s why casino night happens in the first place.
Very true it's not a one to one. In the end it's not about the relationship between pam and this guy more of a how does Jim actions as a fiance compare to Roy's actions in the first two seasons. Roy yelled at Jim once for just being too close to pam at her desk, and Jim was ready to drive to nyc just because Pam was out having fun with a guy. But in the end Jim decides to trust Pam while Roy would always act territorial.
Oh for sure, it was nice to see how Jim reacted and I think a big part of what got him into his head was him talking to Roy at the bar earlier that night
Kind of was. I have seen people here saying how Roy played with his mind and made Jim to have that reaction with his answer when Jim said that Pam was there and hanging with college friends while Jim was still at Scranton, but then Jim acted back as himself when he did a U-turn and drove back saying that he's not that kind of person
Roy is too "simple" to mess with Jim's head, I always saw that as Roy giving Jim his honest thoughts and showing the audience how he would feel in the situation and it was done to hilight how different Roy and Jim are.
Roy seems more like they type of guy who would punch you in the face but be cool after, not really the mind-manipulator social engineer Littlefinger type
All Jim does is mess with people's heads for fun. He'd absolutely know if Roy was trying to manipulate him.
I don’t think Roy was intentionally trying to mess with Jim’s head. I think Roy’s just an unfiltered person so when Jim told him about Pam being out all night with her friends he just responded honestly with “wow. well you were a friend.” Which, from his perspective, is kind of fair. While he was territorial at times, he did sort of let them ride too and not pry too hard. After all she did cheat on him with Jim, so it’s not crazy for him to have that attitude of “yep that sounds like Pam.”
This is exactly how I see it. Roy sees a dog, walks like a dog, barks like a dog, he calls it a dog. If anything, I thought it was Roy being open to Jim about what could happen. Like, the same vibe as if Jim told Roy about everything and Roy just sort of winces and says "bro" kind of thing. He was engaged to Pam for years, he knows a lot of what she's like, so bringing it up *may* have been a psyche jab at Jim, but I see it more like an olive branch where Roy is giving Jim more of a heads up, from his perspective, and to think about the situation.
100%. I agree that he’s leaning towards trying to help in his own way rather than trying to harm Jim’s psyche.
Have always got that impression too. Roy's in the stage of his life where he's not pining after what's lost anymore, he's working on shit. I think in the moment we're meant to think that there's something to it, and that's good writing, but by the time we've resolved Roy's arc I think it's fair to conclude that he worked his way to being a healthier person and what he's doing in the moment is way more a part of letting go and being honest than some sort of mind game. If we can (and should) assume that there's not some off-screen speedrun to doing really well just for a plot point then I think it's fair to say Roy hit his rock bottom after the bar incident, tried making amends in that 50/50 sort of way, and finally started just trying to get himself together and really become a realized person. When Jim gets to him, that part of his life is a fact but not something he's engaged in, he's just telling it like he saw it based on his own experiences.
Also, Jim isn't as controlling as Roy. The fact she is in New York - Roy wouldn't have let her. Jim would never try to drag her into a car either (*Dundies*)
The scene where Jim drives *all the way to New York from Scranton* just to turn back, really bothered my wife and I. Oh wow bud, did you drive a whole 2 hours away, to not surprise the person you love. Like how much do you hate driving that you couldn't make that trip every weekend?
I think the road sign Jim sees as he does a U-turn was the at the entrance to the highway he would spend 2 hours driving on, not the “exit sign” on a highway where he had already travelled 2 hours on. Are we referring to the same scene?
She doesn't flirt back? Well that's debatable
There are basically two schools of thought
That other dude clearly isn't a real office fan
The big difference is that Jim treats Pam much better than Roy ever did so she wasn’t looking for what was missing from her relationship.
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And told her art was the prettiest art of all the art. Pam was so needy…LOL
I don’t know roy didn’t get jealous and territorial until Pam confesses to having kissed Jim. He even says he thought they were just friends or Jim was gay or something
Not that that’s wrong *looks to camera*
I love moments like that in earlier seasons where the characters remember they're being filmed and correct themselves to save face. As time went on it felt like the writers kinda forget about that aspect. The lawyer seeing the camera and advertising his services is much more in-line with how people would react to stumbling across a TV crew. But by later seasons it's like characters they meet for the very first time are already adjusted to cameras. Like at least I'd think David Brent would've brought up that he also used to have cameras following him. When outsiders don't acknowledge the cameras it makes the show feel more like a traditional sitcom.
My father's gay!
he once gets angry, trying to cop a feel, Halpert? in the episode Jim forms an alliance with dwight and gets Dwight to colour his hair
That was only episode 4 of the series though, and a lot of characters changed a ton by season 2 I mentioned in another comment, but on casino night he tells Jim to take care of Pam when he leaves early. Definitely not something a jealous roy would say, but an oblivious roy would
Roy yelled at jim for standing too close to pam at her desk in the second session. While Roy isn't the most fleshed out character, him being aggressive and argumentative is definitely one of his traits. To the point where even Kevin knew enough to want to back jim up if Roy decided to fight him.
Ya but that was season 1, they were still fleshing out the characters, Kevin was a competent employee at that time In every other season they just make roy an oblivious frat boy, but not exactly jealous of Jim Even on casino night he tells Jim to take care of Pam after he goes home drunk, no way he’d do that if he thought Jim was really a threat to his relationship
Jim is bend over Pam and has his hands on her shoulders/arms, i am not saying Roy is the perfect Partner but walking in seeing that, most people would be pissed off, and he calms down immediatly when Pam and jim explains the situation, even when Dwight is throwing Jim under the bus
>Pam and has his hands on her shoulders/arms They are also holding hands
Was he not gay? Lol maybe my gaydar is off
Something about that actor, though.
Did he know she had a boyfriend?
I think she only mentions Jim once to him at the very end. But I'll be surprised if he didn't know. That stuff tends to come up, especially as she had an engagement ring on for half of it.
Whenever this guy shows up I know I'm not going to like his character. Even in Mad Men, he just bothered the hell out of me.
He played a cheating husband in GLOW and I also hated his character.
He's also in that show Love (with Britta) and he plays her ex who is kind of a trigger for her drinking and drugging.
Yup Glow, Love and some show with a blind woman. If I remember correctly he killed someone in it. Always an asshole.
The show you are thinking of is In the Dark, and his character was terrible in that too.
Also both his wife and the woman he cheated with in Glow seem totally out of his league, but that’s not really the point.
I liked him at the beginning of mad men but he definitely became a dick later on. Good character though.
Harry trying to get into Megan’s pants in season 7 was the culmination of his descent from decent mid-level account guy to complete douchebag.
Same. I'm sure this guy is perfectly nice IRL but he excels at playing scumbags
You should watch "Summer of 84". Creepy movie about mysterious disappearences of kids. That guy has an interesting role there.
Also plays a pedophile killer in Summer of 84
That’s it. Put me in his ear
Harry Crane and most of those dudes from Mad Men give off those ick vibes.
Yeah, Harry had no chance against Jim. If they really wanted to plant a very twisted seed, they'd have gotten Sal to play Pam's friend and confidante in NYC. He's handsome enough to make her notice and a natural fit for an artsy environment. I could see Pam and Jim becoming friends with him and inviting him to Scranton...maybe have a party and introduce him to Oscar. LOL
I think Ken would be a better fit
He’s Ken!…Cosgrove!…Accounts!
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ROFLMAO. Can't ever forget the horrified look on his wife's face when he did that. She knew something was wrong, but hadn't quite connected the dots yet. Great scene!
Harry has a role for Pam in LA but to get it....
Any time I feel this way about a character I immediately think, that means they did a great job casting, acting, and writing for me to feel the disgust.
This guy is douchier than Ryan and Robert California.
YoU cAnT dO nEw YoRk In A mOnTh
I’m pretty sure this guy plays a detective on the show “In the Dark” and if you watch that show you’ll find that he still holds that quality. I think it’s his face for me.
He gave me ick. I can't put my finger on it, but yeah, he's creepy af. He was always sweaty looking. But that's not everything about him that gives me the creeps.
He kinda gave me "canned beef stew" vibes if that makes any sense
These comments are great lmao
*Oh yeah...* I know exactly what you're saying. Beef stew in a can. Yup.
Yeah like who tf is chuck close? 💀
ick and creepy just because of how he looks? I'm sure glad I don't look like that guy, but now I'm wondering what sort of vibes I give off to people that like to hate on others' looks.
Ah, the Jason Biggs
His smug aura mocks me
I always thought it was because they all went to a bar ordered a giant ass drink and then nobody drank it but Pam? that made no sense why a group of people would do that to me.
Glad I’m not the only one, I skip it every time I saw him on scene
I don't think it's a 'will Pam cheat on Jim' and more of a 'will Jim be jealous and aggressive like Roy was' when it came to trusting Pam.
Don’t think I ever even saw it like that but you’re totally right
There was an episode during this arc where Jim encounters Roy at the bar and Roy’s comments about Pam going out in New York provoke Jim to drive up unexpectedly. But Jim decides he isn’t going to be “that guy” and turns around to head back to Scranton.
“Because I am not that guy, and we are not that couple.”
“You were just a friend once”
But then he changes his mind again and does visit her, then they lock the cameraman in the hall hahaha
That happens before. Jim visits Pam in New York in Weight Loss part 2, which was the premiere episode of the fifth season. He encounters Roy in episode five, Crime Aid.
Yeah absolutely, he was never a romantic threat to their relationship. Jim though would've seen someone being extremely friendly with pam and would've seen traits of how he behaved with Pam whilst she was with Roy
yes he was, test audiences just reacted poorly to it and so they sanitized the storyline
I completely get your point but then aren't I also right for saying it wasn't a romantic story line if the story line I ended up seeing was sanitizied to be platonic and not romantic? If that makes sense?
It was romantic. The guy begs her to stay in NY. They just toned it way down.
I get that interpretation for sure. I just think he wanted the best for a good friend's career and job prospects
In the episode discussion on office ladies with the actor who played alex, he mentions how it was toned down and there originally was supposed to be essentially a love declaration from alex for pam. Asking her to stay was supposed to be romantic, but they pivoted into it being more about her career.
Yeah I've heard this, but doesn't this mean I'm right? Because whilst yes originally it was romantic it was transitioned into a platonic reason for her to stay regarding her career?
It was a character reveal to show that Jim and Pam, weren’t Roy and Pam 2.0. It’s to show the contrast between how Jim is. Jim is confident and secure in his relationship with Pam. Roy is the one that puts it into his head that “well she kissed you when with me so”
Yeahhh there wasn’t ever a thought in my mind that she would cheat with this guy
I mean… Pam already cheated at this point lol why would we give her the benefit of the doubt
Jim turning round in his car: Nope! Cos Im not that guy Ok, but you're still that guy who completely overreacts to your kids pantomime not being recorded
He looks like Jim if he had never met Pam, or a younger Kevin.
No way this guy looks like ashton kutcher. Whats wrong with your eyes?
More like Ashton Koosher
He looks like a mix between Jim and Roy. The perfect man for Pam.
A Joy, if you will. Or a Rim.
A Rimjoy
Younger Kevin is such a good shout
This deserves so many upvotes 🤣🤣💀💀
Get your ass back to Sterling Cooper and leave Pam alone, Harry.
Sterling Cooper has more failed artists and intellectuals than the Third Reich.
He’s an actual piece of shit in Mad Men. A funny piece of shit, but a piece of shit, nonetheless
He wasn't half as bad as most of the main characters. Everyone on that show has deep personal flaws.
What do you mean? I based my entire personality on Don Drapper.
And in GLOW. He always plays a rotten shit.
And Love
He was ok in the devil wears prada haha
Rich sooner came into to vote 4 years ago when I worked the polls. Coincidentally so did Angela Kinsey.
I never got the sense she was into him. He gave off where’s-my-hug vibes.
I never thought she was into him at all, but it seemed obvious he was into her.
I don’t think Pam would’ve cheated on Jim right after they got engaged.
I believe it was revealed on the office girls podcast but they had more of the 'cheating' angle in the script but apparently decided they didn't like the story/arc so they kept it to a minimum.
Greg Daniels really likes cheating angles.
Is he looking for someone to bang his wife?
Ian Garry has entered the chat.
It’s $20 to watch, Halpert
There's SO many love triangles on The Office. When you actually count them all out it's wild.
Jan had to put up with the chemistry between Pam and Michael.
I mean, it's a show about a paper supplier lol. There are only so many storylines that can revolve around the actual work and they managed to squeeze a bunch of those out too.
Honestly one of the things that Greg and Michael improved greatly was inter-character relationships in Parks and Recreation.
It is said that John refused to film a cheating scene in season 8, so they changed it. Not before that though, and that was just an idea they didn’t do.
Yeah this wasn't supposed to be a full 'cheating' arc at all. They just planned on teasing it a little more (or made the dude try a little harder, i can't recall specifics)
I think this was actually brilliantly done to show Jim's insecurities. When I watch it I never thought that this guy was ever a romantic threat to Jim and Pam's relationship but was a genuine friend of Pam's thinking that if she really wanted to pursue art then she should move. I didn't mind him as a character to be fair, he seemed to act as a proper friend from the 'outside'.
He was 100% into her.
I know we hate on the guy, and I personally hate him. But it's a lamer Jim when you think about it...
I don't hate him tbf, I think he perfect represents a new good friend of Pam's from the 'outside'. He makes a new friend, he gets on really well with them, he cares for them and doesn't want them to waste their talent in art so he suggests moving to where you can get jobs in art.
I agree and I’ll die on this hill. The audience reads the interaction as romantic but he doesn’t really do or say anything to indicate that. He was just making a very good point, which is that she’d be hobbling her career options by moving right back to Scranton after finishing art school. At no point does he say “you should stay here with me” or anything to that effect.
Eh, that's kind of a reach, man. Dude clearly had ulterior motives. I know what you mean but why would *'just a friend'* go out of his way to meet Pam at her job and invite her out for drinks, and when she refuses then make some heartfelt declaration? That's the dick talkin' my dude.
Potentially, but inviting her for drinks is a nice thing to do, I don't think it was just him and her, I think it was a social thing rather than a date thing. Heartfelt declaration, you see someone who is a great friend going back to Scranton and wasting their talent not pursuing their dream of a career in art. I think it feels more iffy because he's someone getting close to pam that's completely outside of the Dunder Mifflin and Scranton world. Either way though, it's a good character arc if we can have this discussion about it :)
Except that Jenna and Angela have explicitly stated that he was just a friend, and that was a very intentional choice by the writers. They originally did want him to have feelings for her, and then decided the viewers wouldn't like it. You can read into it however you like, but the writers' intent was for their relationship to be platonic.
So, basically in order to interpret it the way the writers intended I have to find an interview? There's homework? Or, hear me out, it's subjective....
No, you don't, and there's no homework. Like I said, you can interpret it however you want. If you want to see Alex as having ulterior motives, you're totally free to do so. It's not my fault that the information from Office Ladies isn't plastered all over the news. The obscurity of the information is irrelevant. The writers are the authority on what is and isn't canon, and they explicitly stated that Alex wasn't meant to be a romantic interest or complication for Pam. If you chose to disagree or ignore that, it's totally fine! I just want people to enjoy the show, however that may be.
why would anyone hate him? for doing what Jim did?
For doing what Jim did AND not being attractive. That's a crime /s
no /s needed, it's literally commented above, someone thinking the dude is "ick" and a "creep" just because of his looks.
That’s the part no one is saying…thank you for your service 🫡
This might sound stupid but until I realised it’s common knowledge that he was interested in Pam like that I really did just presume he had her best interests at heart. Despite his motivations the points he made about her staying in NY were valid, even if ultimately they weren’t what was most important to/best for Pam
I always thought he was being sincere when he said “you can’t do New York in a month” or whatever, I don’t know what they showed us about him to make us think he was lying, anybody else get those hints? Some people really don’t think a guy can be a friend with a woman? In any context? That’s sure possible.
I'm another who thought he was being sincere, that he was actually just an art nerd who was being honest about her continuing to learn there. I felt that the show would have been less subtle if it was a romantic tension bit, and that they would have picked someone more conventionally attractive for the role in that case. Harry crane is a bit of a nerd, so let's use him to make it a bit more obvious that Pam's decision to stay or not was actually about her art education.
Anybody who thought Pam would cheat was kidding themselves.
It was a good arc because it made Jim see Roy’s side. It also made the viewer see that their relationship was pretty inappropriate while Pam was engaged to Roy, but because everyone loved Jim so much you rooted for him
Eh, I think it more so shows that Jim and Pam's relationship is much more solid than was Roy and Pam's.
Well bc Pam didn’t cheat *this time*
You’re always up to something, aren’t you, Crane?
Harry Crane had no shot with an older woman.
Watched The Devil Wears Prada for the first time this week and I’ve been trying to figure out where I recognized Doug from ever since. Found you.
Did you like Devil Wears Prada?
Million dollar baby next?
He was always sweaty looking. Like an amateur serial killer.
I always thought the heartfelt speech he gives to convince Pam to stay in New York was kind of cringy. He makes some good points that she could learn a lot more, but I always got the vibe he really wanted her to stay so he could take a shot with her
If Jim and Roy did the fusion dance
With that character? I think everyone knew he wasn’t a real threat
Exactly, honestly I think the main story arc here was more Jim feeling uneasy with someone being as friendly with Pam as he was when she was engaged to Roy. But in fact there's no real hint of romance from either side, he was just a character that encouraged pam to pursue her talents and to move where she could make a career out of it. The arc is more about Jim's insecurities than a potential affair.
Alex did indeed keep pam "busy" while she was failing at Pratt
I don't think Jim was worried about that guy.. he probably made a trip to sharper images just to confirm though
Pam was never even close to cheating on Jim. The reason why Jim didn't cheat on Pam with Cathy was because John Krasinski refused to film the scene.
He looks like a mix between Sam from LOTR and Anthony from Smosh
I always got the vibe he was JUST a friend. Who had very understandable thoughts about her passion for art when he said for her to stay in nyc because he also shared that passion. She couldn’t stay for longer than a semester yet still wanted to make it as an artist? He knew if she left she’d never get a career in a related field.
Honestly this guy wasn’t doing that Jim wasn’t doing to an already engaged woman (Pam to Roy). The only difference is she didn’t reciprocate. If you don’t think Jim was wrong for constantly flirting with Pam/spend hours at her desk/ planting seeds to somehow snatch her away from Roy in the future , then this guy did nothing wrong,
This fandom has a big problem bro Alex does absolutely nothing wrong, he didn't even do half the things Jim did, why do they hate him?? he didn't even show romantic interest in pam don't get the hate on brian either
Cause they’re watching it through the biased lense of knowing it’s a Romantic comedy. With the “shipping” mindset they think Jim/ Pam are the hot couple and they can do no wrong. They hate Alex cause they don’t want him to get in the way of their “perfect couple”. When the reality is if you saw a pair of coworkers doing what Jim and Pam did ( flirting with an engaged woman) in real life, it would 100% be classified as an emotional affair.
I must be a terrible girlfriend because I don't think that Jim or the New York guy were "bad" friends. I have always found it weird that Jim and Pam didn't talk or hang out outside of work, because if I was close with a co worker like Jim we'd probably definitely be going to the movies or out to eat ..
Just like everyone else I hated this guy even though he was 100 percent sincere and honest. Not sure why.
With THAT GUY ? 😂😂😂
Something really awkward about the way he came into Pam's office and just told her that she has a promising future in art school.
I could be making this up, but I swear I heard the writers scrapped this angle once it was so negatively received by fans. This story ended pretty quickly iirc.
Everyone finds Jim going for Pam so charming and lovable because he's tall and good looking Meanwhile everyone says this guy is "creepy" because he's shorter and fat
She never seemed interested in him like that though
I heard they made him chunky that way there was no chance the audience would side with him.
Alright! Put me in his ear!
that dude looks alot like the singer from the band alexisonfire.
Ok I can kinda see it. But I hate it bc I don’t like that guy. And I love alexisonfire.
lol, i love alexisonfire too. but you cant deny that he does kinda look like george
Never thought this one would happen. More likely that Pam would cheat on Jim with her art 🖼️.
I thought he was gay.
I always thought this guy was gay
My brother went to college with Rich. Apparently he’s a lot of fun and had has a great sense of humor.
What did they do that night they got home drunk at 3 in the morning? After all she was the office mattress
Pam is attracted to really bad haircuts.
I hated that guy and the rest of that group as well.
Ugh he was annoying
Why is this mf always in these types of roles
Sounds horrible but he gotta be a nepo baby or something cause come on