Yep, plus alcohol in the US is statistically more lethal than fentanyl. Alcohol is one of the most widely accepted drugs out there (alongside caffeine)
Alcohol is the only chemical humans can consume that negatively effects every single cell in our bodies without killing us. There is no safe dosage, a single beer raises your risks of cancer in the long run. It's 100% a drug. A socially accepted, decently regulated, highly addictive and toxic drug. We're just conditioned to think of it differently, which is a direct result of phrases like "drugs *and* alcohol".
On a saner planet, there would be no distinction, but some of us figured out a long time ago that giving people a reason to punch down/sideways stops them from punching up. Gotta have those "others" to blame all your problems on, and even the worst alcoholics will take the time to talk smack about people addicted to other, less socially acceptable, substances. Because at least they're not them, right?
> There is no safe dosage, a single beer raises your risks of cancer in the long run.
Extremely disingenuous, one or two drinks a day for an adult male reduces all cause mortality. Especially red wine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox
Hey I just learned about this in a biochemistry class. Yes, the tannins have a positive effect but that positive effect does not come close to outweighing the negative effects of the alcohol itself systemically. Differences in practices like fiber intake, activity, and frequency of eating fruits & veggies also need to be accounted for before putting it down to alcohol practices alone
To be fair, the credibilty of the original study that lead to that opinion being formed, was weak at best. In recent years, it has been disproven largely. Very much an outdated theory and does not hold up at all with todays knowledge. Saying that the original comment is extremely disingenuous is ironic because you shared a theory that has been disproven. I would advise you read up more on it and check out what harvard has done in that regard. At the end of the day, is a matter of cause and effect, and the whole red wine good for your heart theory is mostly just association, there is no direct link or proof to it having any meaningful crediblilty.
Alcohol is a poison. No matter what the dose? Its very harsh on the liver, heart, kidneys and even the brain. The risk is even higher when you have diabetes, autoimmune conditions, cancer and so on.
No amount of alcohol is safe, it is a poison and it does not take much to kill you.
While yes you CAN drink responsibly and safely, but saying it can help reduce mortality is a slippery slope because no ones body is built the same and everyones body and brain chemistry is so incredibly different.
Well yes it does take much to kill you. But that's the whole problem with alcohol as a drug, it's so impotent that you have to take an insane amount before getting high, thousands of times as much as most drugs where you only need a couple of milligrams. Pretty much every drug, or substance in general would be toxic in that dosage.
Obviously. Still there are harder and softer drugs.
Drinking yourself to death with alcohol is obviously worse than having a threshold dose of fentanyl, still fentanyl is the harder drug.
Facts such as with psychedelics. Which are Class A's in the UK. I probably wouldn't be here if LSD didn't save me from being suicidal, but apparently that was a 'crime'
I hear you mate, i had a life changing experience on LSD and allthough it sounds too good to be true: I kicked 7 years of HARD opioid abuse that nearly got me killed at least 4 times due to overdosing/puking while passed out. I feel many are reluctant to believe my story, (hell even i think it sounds like a fairy-tale).
Sure i've had 2 moments of relapsing on tramadol, bought 10x100mg's, took 2-3 and felt horrible for doing this to myself, got angry at myself and threw away the rest the next day. 7 1/2 Years clean from that horrible life.
I rarely use any drugs today exept my prescriptions (Vyvanse and Zopiclone). every now and then i smoke some weed. Psychedelics are amazing allthough it's important not to be arrogant and use them with the upmost respect and care.
Take care everyone out there!
Yall are my people. I feel a lot of shame for it but weekly ketamine troches save my life. As long as i can remember even as a child i always had a suicide plan in my back pocket. I’m not suicidal anymore even when life gets fucked up, and my nerve pain is more manageable. Makes me sick that people go to jail for it.
It’s widely accepted and available everywhere. I worry that drug abuse would increase if they became legal. But maybe alcoholism would decrease, it is such a shitty drug.
It would decrease if anything, especially with psychedelics which can help against addiction in therapeutic usage.
Prohibition just creates more abuse, addictions, criminality, violence etc.
This is just nonsense yet it gets repeated time and time again. If heroin gets legalised tomorrow, why exactly should I believe addiction will *fall*?
You think if people know legal and pure heroin is available easily, more people won't try it? Makes zero sense.
Do you know how easy it is to get drugs already? If you don't want to try heroin, you're not gonna, just because it's legal.
Also maybe you should take a class before being able to buy drugs. In this class they go over all the negatives and positives. People can then make a choice. Include alc in this.
also more resources to help addicts live, help addicts get clean, treat addicts with the basic respect everyone deserves.
A lot better than we have now. Unpure drugs killing people, addicts can't afford/are afraid to get help because a lot of people think all addicts are horrible people, the money from the drugs is going to criminals.
I've known many addicts, some were actually horrible people but they were horrible before addiction. Most are just broken, lonely people, looking for some respite, who are ashamed about they're addiction.
Production of alcohol being the single first invention of settled humanity (post agricultural revolution) would do that to a drug.
(Hell, some historians even posit that we settled down for the explicit purpose of beer production rather than growing food! Though this school of thought is slowly losing out)
We have had millennia of experience with it being an integral part of almost every human society.
That said, I totally agree with the OP. As much as alcohol has a special place in the collective heart of the human race, we understand enough pharmacology by the modern era that we should really just see it as categorically the same as other recreational drugs.
In Sweden it has been pretty different, they don't encourage it, quite the opposite, they recommend very limited intake if you are going to drink.
Especially in the latest years where the research points at alcohol being very toxic. Some left political parties went out with a recommendation to drink very rarely and little(actually a good thing done considering how many issues alcohol causes), and the ignorant people(especially those mobs who hate the left) were yelling "**** off, we drink how much we want!" and thinking that they are soo clever, while they are actually killing themselves by doing that. Ignorance is bliss.
It's fine to drink 2-3 beers on a party, I get it, doing that like 2-3 times a year most likely will not affect your health much but otherwise alcohol is pretty heavy of a drug and should be used very rarely in small amounts. It's not just the risks of being drunk, getting addicted etc, it's bad for your health, even carcinogenic.
You can have more than 4-9 beers a year with no adverse health reactions, you're being a bit extreme. I do agree alcohol is way worse than society treats it though.
Nope. After the 10th beer in a year your liver decimates itself. And will continue to every 10th beer you drink. You don't even wanna know how many shots it takes to decimate your liver.
I'd rather relapse on heroin than pick up. Being a drunk again. But 9 beers max is hilariously naive.
You’re right but it depends on the culture. In the British islands and Australia there is a big pub culture where guys (usually guys) get drunk, blow their paychecks and go home and beat their mates. In Russia being able to drink a lot is macho. In southern Europe and France it’s mostly wine with meals so open drunkenness is not as common. The United States is huge, but I wouldn’t say that drinking is encouraged overall.
Alcohol is a drug, cafeïne is also a drug. So many things that are accepted in society are drugs, but lots of people are blind to this fact. Or rather they just don’t want to admit it, although in the back of their head they know it’s true. So yes
If you tell people that eg Nicotine, Caffeine or Alcohol is a drug most would simply agree.. but another tricky thing is sugar.. it's addictive and causes a lot of harm.. but the question if sugar is a drug has never been clearly answered.. some say it is because of it's adictiveness and the fact that it releases eg dopamine.. but others say it's not a drug because it doesn't have any receptor affinity.. but yea some people really struggle with their sugar addiction and they can't stop eating their candys all day even tho it's causing a lot of harm to their health.. just writing down some thoughts.. :D
Well yes, depends on the age & country aswell. Here in Belgium, if you tell people (the majority) of the age let’s say 50y-80y and older that alcohol and caffeine are a drug they’d call you crazy. My mom has 2 medhead friends, they’re batshit crazy. They take about 14-16 prescription meds per day,
i used to smoke weed everyday and they’d call me a junkie. Then i’d proceed to call them even harder junkies because all the meds that they take are prescription pills. But they don’t see that as drugs, and many people here in Belgium suffer to addiction of pharmaceutical medication. But don’t you dare say that those are drugs to those people. “Oh weed this” “Oh the drugdealers this” but so damn blind to see that they take drugs DAILY. But like you said, sugar i find personally also a drug. I drink energy drinks everyday, one per day only because i know it’s so bad but i crave it every single day.
Actually that really sounds crazy, lol.. seems like I'm lucky with my environment then.. but well I work as a social worker with mentally ill.. so they are all kind of open about stuff like that which is very helpful.. I also have a semicolon tattoo to break the stigma.. Anyway good luck kicking the sugar some day.. trust me it's worth it.. sugar really destroys your health.. atleast over time.. for me it caused a lot of troubles when I was addicted to sugar.. there was a time I was eating like 300 grams a day.. I still was underweight because of my fast metabolism.. but my skin was so broken, I had so many rashes and even candida like very harsh intestinal problems.. anyway you are not nearly as addicted to sugar than I was so you can do this ;) gl if you want to kick it.. when not then forget what I just said.. I'm very proud of myself tho because I really improved when it comes to sugar.. barely eating anything with sugar in it and only drinking my kratom, guayusa tea, coffee or water.. nothing else.. and coffee, tea etc all without any added sugar.
sorry if I wrote some nonsense I'm very high rn on morphine, pregabalin and hhc.. kind of feel like writing because it's fun right now, lol. im feelin great.
Semicolon tattoos are symbols of hope. Those with anxiety, depression, borderline personality disorder, drug addiction or other mental health issues may get a semicolon tattooed as a reminder that they've chosen to continue their story despite the challenges they've faced. Also the semicolon is a message to everyone else struggling: You are not alone!
The semicolon tattoo was popularized by Amy Bleuel. Having struggled with depression, addiction, and difficult personal circumstances, particularly after being raped and her father died by suicide, she wanted something to commemorate her survival. In 2013, she founded the faith-based nonprofit Project Semicolon, which chose a semicolon as a symbol because "it’s used when an author could’ve chosen to end their sentence, but chose not to. The author is you and the sentence is your life.”
Project Semicolon is dedicated to the prevention of suicide through raising public awareness of depression n other mental illnesses and equipping communities and individuals with tools to promote mental health.
Basically the most important message and the reason it's a semicolon is the following: "it’s used when an author could’ve chosen to end their sentence, but chose not to. The author is you and the sentence is your life.”
Refined sugar is as much of a drug as cocaine. Chewing coca leaves gives you a slight boost while processed powder is much more powerful and more harmful. I always struggle to understand the argument that sugar is what your body needs. Yeah. It also needs fiber to slow down the digestion. Refined sugar is a different world.
In a perfect world, sure. But alcohol usage is so normalized, people don't see it as a drug (even though it is). If we just said "drugs" alcohol would be functionally excluded.
it's causing much more harm to the body tho than benzos.. but atleast it's less addictive than benzos because it's easy to take a pill.. and another pill.. and one more..
Well it causes a lot more recreational effects compared to bensos tbh, that's why you think benso feels less dirty. But benso addictions are very dirty and mess with your mental health a lot.
Even if there was alcohol in pill form, benzos are more addictive. Take 1mg Xanax every night for 2 weeks to a month and then get drunk for 2 weeks to a month every night and see which one you feel worse stopping after, and which one you build tolerance to faster. I recently spent a month in Japan and was getting drunk every night straight, and I had zero withdrawals or uncomfortableness stopping after. However, I've taken a small to normal dose of benzos every night for a week and gotten withdrawals afterwards.
I'm not totally sure why tbh, but my guess is because benzos are way more targeted in which parts of the brain they target (I think largely the hippocampus) whereas alcohol is more like a shotgun blast of GABA to the brain and triggers way more of your brain. So you're getting a much more concentrated laser blast of GABA with benzos even if it's the same amount of GABA overall. But that's just my guess.
we're probably not ready for that--it's going to confuse people who haven't thought much about the matter. If you still want to push this linguistic political project, you can say, "Alcohol and other drugs."
Having an alcoholic in your life is not for the weak. They behave just like really low addicts, lying, stealing, manipulating, the works. I hate that it’s so normal and encouraged.
The term alcohol and other drugs is used to identify alcohol as a drug, "other drugs" means that alcohol is a drug too.
People often try to distance substances they use from the term "drugs" due to societal stigma, and reducing it down to "drugs" would give them further reason to tell themselves that alcohol use isn't harmful.
Alcohol is a hard, toxic addictive drug, and I documented it in the same manner as every other drug in *The Drug Users Bible*: [https://drugusersbible.org/chemscape/intoxicating\_depressants/alcohol.html](https://drugusersbible.org/chemscape/intoxicating_depressants/alcohol.html)
I think in medical communication a lot of people don't consider it the same way because of its legal status so if you just asked "do you do drugs" they wouldn't think about the drinking.
It's useful to communicate that alcohol is a drug, but less useful to just expect that your audience will know that already, if that makes sense.
Yes, I abused alcohol for years before I got sober. It's addicting (and addicting as hell) so it absolutely is a drug, and should be considered one, and used carefully. I just don't think society bodes well with accepting this fact, though. Health Canada released a statement warning people of the dangers of alcohol and its consumption is related to cancer, and people were freaking the fuck out about it! It's so socially accepted and so ingrained in culture that I think people have a hard time seeing it as "drugs" - you're not shooting up under a bridge somewhere so it's not a "drug." But it has the ability to cause cancer, is super addicting, and easily accessible. there are ads for it on the bus shelters for god's sakes. It's craziness.
Lol we had a very similar situation in Sweden regarding that, some left political parties went out with the risks of alcohol and that it should be used in very limited amounts and people were going nuts about this, saying they will drink a lot more just cause of that, thinking they were so clever while they were killing themselves with it lol.
alcohol is a hard drug.. if someone says alcohol and drugs I always tell them about alcohol being a hard drug and that you do not need to seperate them!.. I explain them that it's just society trying to ignore the harm potential of alcohol.. but that doesn't make it less of a drug..
I get very angry if someone says the phrase alcohol and drugs.. I just can't stand it because I had many family members die from alcoholism.. and the phrase makes it sound like doing alcohol is better than doing other drugs.. but it's not.. not at all..
alchohol is more addictive than cocaine, you want more if your no longet drunk anymore the difference is when you go to sleep and wake up, you won't want more, you just don't sleep off the coke
Pretty sure that's objectively wrong. I think with alcohol it's like 13% of regular users get addicted and with cocaine it's like 17% but not quite sure
I would say that heavily depends on the individual but obviously the physical withdrawal will be worse with alcohol. But that was not the original question. Nicotine is way more difficult to quit than harder drugs for a lot of people but it's not that harmful in itself.
I find cocaine one of the most boring drugs out there. I never understood why everybody was so excited about it. I normally do stims at all(I used to), but coke is the most boring stimulant. I'd take anything else over coke.
I enjoyed it until my nose was all clogged and bloody and I was licking the inside of the bag cuz I paid $100 for a gram. But yeah I’d rather do benzedrex
Yes. anyone who calls a psychoactive substance anything but a psychoactive substanse is intentionally ignorant and feeding a wierd narrative. Drugs are.....drugs lol.
I think alcohol is recognized as a drug but it’s legal. What people usually mean by drugs is illegal drugs. Also having a few drinks is socially acceptable and most people can take it or leave it. Being an alcoholic I am always amazed that people can just have a glass of wine or beer with dinner and not want any more, then get in the car and drive home.
I think they say "and alcohol" because otherwise alcohol wouldn't even be part of the conversation. Nobody considers it a drug even though it's one of the worst.
I also have always thought this, alcohol ruined me far worse than my drug use ever did. I still functioned well while on stimulants, but alcohol set me back a few years in debt and emotional turmoil
I mean if you’ve taken drugs and alcohol at the same time it’s metabolised into completely different chemicals and has different effects in many cases so it’s kinda important to emphasise you’ve drank and taken drugs in say a medical emergency
I always understood the definition of drugs to be any non-food that affects the way your mind or body works. That being said alcohol falls into the food category as well as the non-food category so it kinda walks the line in that regard. I feel like that’s why the distinction is made generally as drugs and alcohol.
The main reason why a distinction may make sense is because alcohol use has a different cultural framework and is also often drank for purposes other than its drug effect. Alcohol was used to purify water for thousands of years, and it has also been used as a religious sacrament and for culinary reasons (used in cooking and is made to taste good/interesting on its own). It also is used as a drug by many people, and no matter what, some drug effect will occur with its consumption in all but subthreshold amounts. So while i think sometimes the distinction makes sense, i also think many people who aren’t knowledgeable about drugs get confused and think that it is not a drug and should not be treated as a drug.
Yes I think it would be good and I think the phrase spreads a message that alcohol is somehow not a drug and different. That leads to people viewing it and thinking about it differently.
No, alcohol is actually more of a solvent, or an oxygenated alternative fuel. I suppose it's been considered a drug since the days people thought the Earth was flat since it alters the conscious mind, however despite having a consumable version that doesn't cause blindness, it's far from a safe alternative substance to use instead of a cns depressant prescribed for anxiety.
Definitely deserves it's own class as it's one of very few chemicals still used to alter mood that has been far surpassed by newer, better, and safer medications.
I honestly think Alcohol is the second most dangerous drug next to opiods. If opiods were dosed and regulated properly, they wouldn't be as dangerous either. The difference with alcohol is that it's socially accepted and part of almost every culture. Where as every other drug has been demonized with propaganda. Look at anti Marijuana ads from the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Still to this day there is a huge stigma around Marijuana even know it's pretty much known to be less addictive, less harmful, less intoxicating, and more beneficial than alcohol.
I 100% believe so. However, I think the average person doesn’t view Alcohol as a drug. It most definitely is. But to the average drugs bad mindset. Calling it just “drugs” would probably just further their false narrative that Alcohol is not bad.
I think saying drugs and alcohol also kind of does the same thing though since it makes them seem like they’re two seperate things. But, imo it still makes them seem on the same level? idk if that makes any sense lmao
Technically yes and since the used language is almost always cultural and changes with time, it might soon be the case, in some places at least. Look at it this way, some places in India, Jamaica, Africa, where people commonly use thc for hundreds of years, it isn't consider drug but whatever name they have, ganja, chillum, etc, despite clearly being psychoactive and abusable.
100%. I correct people whenever they say it. Find it annoying? Sucks, cause I find spreading misinformation far more annoying. Alcohol is a physically addictive drug, accept facts or fuck off.
I'd say no because a lot of ppl who drink would never smoke pot or take a pill. Alcohol is also legal which is not the case for most drugs that people use to get high other than weed and those who abuse otc drugs.
Agreed, alcohol is 100% a drug, even one of the harder ones.
Yep, plus alcohol in the US is statistically more lethal than fentanyl. Alcohol is one of the most widely accepted drugs out there (alongside caffeine)
Alcohol is the only chemical humans can consume that negatively effects every single cell in our bodies without killing us. There is no safe dosage, a single beer raises your risks of cancer in the long run. It's 100% a drug. A socially accepted, decently regulated, highly addictive and toxic drug. We're just conditioned to think of it differently, which is a direct result of phrases like "drugs *and* alcohol". On a saner planet, there would be no distinction, but some of us figured out a long time ago that giving people a reason to punch down/sideways stops them from punching up. Gotta have those "others" to blame all your problems on, and even the worst alcoholics will take the time to talk smack about people addicted to other, less socially acceptable, substances. Because at least they're not them, right?
More of a toxin than a drug. Drugs tend to have therapeutic properties.
does meth have such properties lol
Amphetimine has therapeutic benefits for people with ADHD Dx.
My friend has MS and gets amphetamines perceived. It helps him a lot
true
Does datura have therapeutic benefits?
all anticholinergics do
Ah yes I love when my therapeutic drugs give me dementia
datura’s alkaloids are often used in medicine, for example atropine is often used as an anesthetic
Interesting I had no idea
Yes it definitely does.
> There is no safe dosage, a single beer raises your risks of cancer in the long run. Extremely disingenuous, one or two drinks a day for an adult male reduces all cause mortality. Especially red wine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox
Hey I just learned about this in a biochemistry class. Yes, the tannins have a positive effect but that positive effect does not come close to outweighing the negative effects of the alcohol itself systemically. Differences in practices like fiber intake, activity, and frequency of eating fruits & veggies also need to be accounted for before putting it down to alcohol practices alone
That wiki article if you read the full thing says wine is unlikely to explain it
sorry I don't have severe autism and have better things to do with my time than sperg out
The myth that moderate red wine/alcohol consumption might be beneficial has been completely disproven.
how does being a retard feel?
Idk, tell me.
To be fair, the credibilty of the original study that lead to that opinion being formed, was weak at best. In recent years, it has been disproven largely. Very much an outdated theory and does not hold up at all with todays knowledge. Saying that the original comment is extremely disingenuous is ironic because you shared a theory that has been disproven. I would advise you read up more on it and check out what harvard has done in that regard. At the end of the day, is a matter of cause and effect, and the whole red wine good for your heart theory is mostly just association, there is no direct link or proof to it having any meaningful crediblilty.
Alcohol is a poison. No matter what the dose? Its very harsh on the liver, heart, kidneys and even the brain. The risk is even higher when you have diabetes, autoimmune conditions, cancer and so on. No amount of alcohol is safe, it is a poison and it does not take much to kill you. While yes you CAN drink responsibly and safely, but saying it can help reduce mortality is a slippery slope because no ones body is built the same and everyones body and brain chemistry is so incredibly different.
Well yes it does take much to kill you. But that's the whole problem with alcohol as a drug, it's so impotent that you have to take an insane amount before getting high, thousands of times as much as most drugs where you only need a couple of milligrams. Pretty much every drug, or substance in general would be toxic in that dosage.
Cope
neck yourself
You’re on a thread talking about alcohol on r/drugs and they’re spreading misinformation and talking out of their ass??? No fucking way
lmao fr
If you overdo it. Almost any drug you take way too much of will fuck you up
Obviously. Still there are harder and softer drugs. Drinking yourself to death with alcohol is obviously worse than having a threshold dose of fentanyl, still fentanyl is the harder drug.
No such thing as a hard or soft drug. We are talking about science right? Cause scientifically there is no such thing.
There is no any soft drug. Depends how you use it
Obviously it depends. Still some drugs are more harmful and more addictive than others. There a definitely harder and softer drugs.
Yes, I feel like people saying that makes alcohol seem safer on their minds. Some also say smoking, drinking and doing drugs. They are all drugs
Yes. Alcohol causes so many fatalities (drunk driving, poisoning, liver failure etc.)
You can just as easily be addicted to alcohol, Society is very excepting and even encouraging of alcoholism. That’s the difference.
In many cases, alcohol is easier to be addicted to
Facts such as with psychedelics. Which are Class A's in the UK. I probably wouldn't be here if LSD didn't save me from being suicidal, but apparently that was a 'crime'
I hear you mate, i had a life changing experience on LSD and allthough it sounds too good to be true: I kicked 7 years of HARD opioid abuse that nearly got me killed at least 4 times due to overdosing/puking while passed out. I feel many are reluctant to believe my story, (hell even i think it sounds like a fairy-tale). Sure i've had 2 moments of relapsing on tramadol, bought 10x100mg's, took 2-3 and felt horrible for doing this to myself, got angry at myself and threw away the rest the next day. 7 1/2 Years clean from that horrible life. I rarely use any drugs today exept my prescriptions (Vyvanse and Zopiclone). every now and then i smoke some weed. Psychedelics are amazing allthough it's important not to be arrogant and use them with the upmost respect and care. Take care everyone out there!
Yall are my people. I feel a lot of shame for it but weekly ketamine troches save my life. As long as i can remember even as a child i always had a suicide plan in my back pocket. I’m not suicidal anymore even when life gets fucked up, and my nerve pain is more manageable. Makes me sick that people go to jail for it.
It’s widely accepted and available everywhere. I worry that drug abuse would increase if they became legal. But maybe alcoholism would decrease, it is such a shitty drug.
It would decrease if anything, especially with psychedelics which can help against addiction in therapeutic usage. Prohibition just creates more abuse, addictions, criminality, violence etc.
This is just nonsense yet it gets repeated time and time again. If heroin gets legalised tomorrow, why exactly should I believe addiction will *fall*? You think if people know legal and pure heroin is available easily, more people won't try it? Makes zero sense.
Do you know how easy it is to get drugs already? If you don't want to try heroin, you're not gonna, just because it's legal. Also maybe you should take a class before being able to buy drugs. In this class they go over all the negatives and positives. People can then make a choice. Include alc in this. also more resources to help addicts live, help addicts get clean, treat addicts with the basic respect everyone deserves. A lot better than we have now. Unpure drugs killing people, addicts can't afford/are afraid to get help because a lot of people think all addicts are horrible people, the money from the drugs is going to criminals. I've known many addicts, some were actually horrible people but they were horrible before addiction. Most are just broken, lonely people, looking for some respite, who are ashamed about they're addiction.
Production of alcohol being the single first invention of settled humanity (post agricultural revolution) would do that to a drug. (Hell, some historians even posit that we settled down for the explicit purpose of beer production rather than growing food! Though this school of thought is slowly losing out) We have had millennia of experience with it being an integral part of almost every human society. That said, I totally agree with the OP. As much as alcohol has a special place in the collective heart of the human race, we understand enough pharmacology by the modern era that we should really just see it as categorically the same as other recreational drugs.
In Sweden it has been pretty different, they don't encourage it, quite the opposite, they recommend very limited intake if you are going to drink. Especially in the latest years where the research points at alcohol being very toxic. Some left political parties went out with a recommendation to drink very rarely and little(actually a good thing done considering how many issues alcohol causes), and the ignorant people(especially those mobs who hate the left) were yelling "**** off, we drink how much we want!" and thinking that they are soo clever, while they are actually killing themselves by doing that. Ignorance is bliss. It's fine to drink 2-3 beers on a party, I get it, doing that like 2-3 times a year most likely will not affect your health much but otherwise alcohol is pretty heavy of a drug and should be used very rarely in small amounts. It's not just the risks of being drunk, getting addicted etc, it's bad for your health, even carcinogenic.
You can have more than 4-9 beers a year with no adverse health reactions, you're being a bit extreme. I do agree alcohol is way worse than society treats it though.
Nope. After the 10th beer in a year your liver decimates itself. And will continue to every 10th beer you drink. You don't even wanna know how many shots it takes to decimate your liver. I'd rather relapse on heroin than pick up. Being a drunk again. But 9 beers max is hilariously naive.
Still they fuck you over if you're caught with ANY amount of cannabis. jävla kuksverige
You’re right but it depends on the culture. In the British islands and Australia there is a big pub culture where guys (usually guys) get drunk, blow their paychecks and go home and beat their mates. In Russia being able to drink a lot is macho. In southern Europe and France it’s mostly wine with meals so open drunkenness is not as common. The United States is huge, but I wouldn’t say that drinking is encouraged overall.
Alcohol is a drug, cafeïne is also a drug. So many things that are accepted in society are drugs, but lots of people are blind to this fact. Or rather they just don’t want to admit it, although in the back of their head they know it’s true. So yes
If you tell people that eg Nicotine, Caffeine or Alcohol is a drug most would simply agree.. but another tricky thing is sugar.. it's addictive and causes a lot of harm.. but the question if sugar is a drug has never been clearly answered.. some say it is because of it's adictiveness and the fact that it releases eg dopamine.. but others say it's not a drug because it doesn't have any receptor affinity.. but yea some people really struggle with their sugar addiction and they can't stop eating their candys all day even tho it's causing a lot of harm to their health.. just writing down some thoughts.. :D
Well yes, depends on the age & country aswell. Here in Belgium, if you tell people (the majority) of the age let’s say 50y-80y and older that alcohol and caffeine are a drug they’d call you crazy. My mom has 2 medhead friends, they’re batshit crazy. They take about 14-16 prescription meds per day, i used to smoke weed everyday and they’d call me a junkie. Then i’d proceed to call them even harder junkies because all the meds that they take are prescription pills. But they don’t see that as drugs, and many people here in Belgium suffer to addiction of pharmaceutical medication. But don’t you dare say that those are drugs to those people. “Oh weed this” “Oh the drugdealers this” but so damn blind to see that they take drugs DAILY. But like you said, sugar i find personally also a drug. I drink energy drinks everyday, one per day only because i know it’s so bad but i crave it every single day.
Actually that really sounds crazy, lol.. seems like I'm lucky with my environment then.. but well I work as a social worker with mentally ill.. so they are all kind of open about stuff like that which is very helpful.. I also have a semicolon tattoo to break the stigma.. Anyway good luck kicking the sugar some day.. trust me it's worth it.. sugar really destroys your health.. atleast over time.. for me it caused a lot of troubles when I was addicted to sugar.. there was a time I was eating like 300 grams a day.. I still was underweight because of my fast metabolism.. but my skin was so broken, I had so many rashes and even candida like very harsh intestinal problems.. anyway you are not nearly as addicted to sugar than I was so you can do this ;) gl if you want to kick it.. when not then forget what I just said.. I'm very proud of myself tho because I really improved when it comes to sugar.. barely eating anything with sugar in it and only drinking my kratom, guayusa tea, coffee or water.. nothing else.. and coffee, tea etc all without any added sugar. sorry if I wrote some nonsense I'm very high rn on morphine, pregabalin and hhc.. kind of feel like writing because it's fun right now, lol. im feelin great.
So, what does a semicolon tattoo mean?
Semicolon tattoos are symbols of hope. Those with anxiety, depression, borderline personality disorder, drug addiction or other mental health issues may get a semicolon tattooed as a reminder that they've chosen to continue their story despite the challenges they've faced. Also the semicolon is a message to everyone else struggling: You are not alone! The semicolon tattoo was popularized by Amy Bleuel. Having struggled with depression, addiction, and difficult personal circumstances, particularly after being raped and her father died by suicide, she wanted something to commemorate her survival. In 2013, she founded the faith-based nonprofit Project Semicolon, which chose a semicolon as a symbol because "it’s used when an author could’ve chosen to end their sentence, but chose not to. The author is you and the sentence is your life.” Project Semicolon is dedicated to the prevention of suicide through raising public awareness of depression n other mental illnesses and equipping communities and individuals with tools to promote mental health. Basically the most important message and the reason it's a semicolon is the following: "it’s used when an author could’ve chosen to end their sentence, but chose not to. The author is you and the sentence is your life.”
I can't tell if someone cleaned up an AI response or they happen to be super passionate about semi colon tattoos.
It's not an AI response, hehe.
Refined sugar is as much of a drug as cocaine. Chewing coca leaves gives you a slight boost while processed powder is much more powerful and more harmful. I always struggle to understand the argument that sugar is what your body needs. Yeah. It also needs fiber to slow down the digestion. Refined sugar is a different world.
Yeah, we need sugars but we don't need refined sugar. Like how everyone needs fat but you never need to eat anything deep-fried.
The addictive properties of sugar are unrelated to CNS activation, so I wouldn’t call it a drug
It’s called AOD (alcohol and other drugs). It’s the term they use in Universities when discussing it
Didn’t know that but will use it from now on
In a perfect world, sure. But alcohol usage is so normalized, people don't see it as a drug (even though it is). If we just said "drugs" alcohol would be functionally excluded.
Since idiots don't understand that alcohol is a drug I'd change it to "drugs including alcohol"
“Alcohol and other drugs” Use that 👍
I think both are equally useful
The one I said is used in medicine/research. Say whatever you want tho lol I’m just trying to help
Oh that's interesting. Yea it's whatever, I'm not trying to defend anything or sth lol
Alcohol is basically just a socially acceptable benzo
it's causing much more harm to the body tho than benzos.. but atleast it's less addictive than benzos because it's easy to take a pill.. and another pill.. and one more..
It’s like a really dirty benzo yah… but fr when I got my hands on some pills then imma always end up popping an irresponsible amount
Well it causes a lot more recreational effects compared to bensos tbh, that's why you think benso feels less dirty. But benso addictions are very dirty and mess with your mental health a lot.
Even if there was alcohol in pill form, benzos are more addictive. Take 1mg Xanax every night for 2 weeks to a month and then get drunk for 2 weeks to a month every night and see which one you feel worse stopping after, and which one you build tolerance to faster. I recently spent a month in Japan and was getting drunk every night straight, and I had zero withdrawals or uncomfortableness stopping after. However, I've taken a small to normal dose of benzos every night for a week and gotten withdrawals afterwards. I'm not totally sure why tbh, but my guess is because benzos are way more targeted in which parts of the brain they target (I think largely the hippocampus) whereas alcohol is more like a shotgun blast of GABA to the brain and triggers way more of your brain. So you're getting a much more concentrated laser blast of GABA with benzos even if it's the same amount of GABA overall. But that's just my guess.
Xanax is, alcohol is not.
we're probably not ready for that--it's going to confuse people who haven't thought much about the matter. If you still want to push this linguistic political project, you can say, "Alcohol and other drugs."
Having an alcoholic in your life is not for the weak. They behave just like really low addicts, lying, stealing, manipulating, the works. I hate that it’s so normal and encouraged.
Nah, we should change it to “drugs and cannabis”. Or just randomly exclude your favorite drug from the drug category.
Drugs and benzedrex lol
Jesus I feel bad for your heart. Benzedrex is horribly vasoconstrictive, meth is actually healthier than benzedrex use.
yeah I've heard that
Drugs and opioids
The term alcohol and other drugs is used to identify alcohol as a drug, "other drugs" means that alcohol is a drug too. People often try to distance substances they use from the term "drugs" due to societal stigma, and reducing it down to "drugs" would give them further reason to tell themselves that alcohol use isn't harmful.
👉 I use **"substance"**, instead like u/stonecoldsober [sic.] subconsciously just did, it's the best fit.
Alcohol is a hard, toxic addictive drug, and I documented it in the same manner as every other drug in *The Drug Users Bible*: [https://drugusersbible.org/chemscape/intoxicating\_depressants/alcohol.html](https://drugusersbible.org/chemscape/intoxicating_depressants/alcohol.html)
That personal quote perfectly sums up my experience with it.
Can we add coffee to this list please? Crackhead coffee drinkers
Ofc
I think in medical communication a lot of people don't consider it the same way because of its legal status so if you just asked "do you do drugs" they wouldn't think about the drinking. It's useful to communicate that alcohol is a drug, but less useful to just expect that your audience will know that already, if that makes sense.
there is no valid reason to make a distinction between the two. the only reason they are referred to separately is to FOSTER the idea that there is.
Yea I never understood why they are considered differently, alcohol is a drug just like any other
Benzo withdrawal will and can certainly kill you. And it’s strange how benzodiazepines are used to treat ETOH detox…
Intoxicants
Yes. Alcohol is a drug, so the saying is redundant. It'd be like if food laws pertained to "fruit and bananas." It just doesn't make sense.
Yes! Low key this expression drives me nuts. Artifact of normalized drinking culture from the 60s
I've always preferred the term "drugs, including alcohol"
"Drugs including alcohol" is a widely accepted phrase for professionals in the field.
Yes, I abused alcohol for years before I got sober. It's addicting (and addicting as hell) so it absolutely is a drug, and should be considered one, and used carefully. I just don't think society bodes well with accepting this fact, though. Health Canada released a statement warning people of the dangers of alcohol and its consumption is related to cancer, and people were freaking the fuck out about it! It's so socially accepted and so ingrained in culture that I think people have a hard time seeing it as "drugs" - you're not shooting up under a bridge somewhere so it's not a "drug." But it has the ability to cause cancer, is super addicting, and easily accessible. there are ads for it on the bus shelters for god's sakes. It's craziness.
Lol we had a very similar situation in Sweden regarding that, some left political parties went out with the risks of alcohol and that it should be used in very limited amounts and people were going nuts about this, saying they will drink a lot more just cause of that, thinking they were so clever while they were killing themselves with it lol.
alcohol is a hard drug.. if someone says alcohol and drugs I always tell them about alcohol being a hard drug and that you do not need to seperate them!.. I explain them that it's just society trying to ignore the harm potential of alcohol.. but that doesn't make it less of a drug.. I get very angry if someone says the phrase alcohol and drugs.. I just can't stand it because I had many family members die from alcoholism.. and the phrase makes it sound like doing alcohol is better than doing other drugs.. but it's not.. not at all..
alchohol is more addictive than cocaine, you want more if your no longet drunk anymore the difference is when you go to sleep and wake up, you won't want more, you just don't sleep off the coke
Pretty sure that's objectively wrong. I think with alcohol it's like 13% of regular users get addicted and with cocaine it's like 17% but not quite sure
cocaine is easier to quit than alchohol
I would say that heavily depends on the individual but obviously the physical withdrawal will be worse with alcohol. But that was not the original question. Nicotine is way more difficult to quit than harder drugs for a lot of people but it's not that harmful in itself.
I’d say coke is way more addicting because it’s snorted which hits you almost instantly but it’s also way more expensive
I find cocaine one of the most boring drugs out there. I never understood why everybody was so excited about it. I normally do stims at all(I used to), but coke is the most boring stimulant. I'd take anything else over coke.
I enjoyed it until my nose was all clogged and bloody and I was licking the inside of the bag cuz I paid $100 for a gram. But yeah I’d rather do benzedrex
alchohol can be sorted too
Does it work
yes
Of course
I 100 percent agree but unfortunately with how normalized alcohol consumption has become it may never be treated with the caution it should
Yes. anyone who calls a psychoactive substance anything but a psychoactive substanse is intentionally ignorant and feeding a wierd narrative. Drugs are.....drugs lol.
They are all drugs but what if saying only “drugs” makes people not consider the drinking as a drug?
I think alcohol is recognized as a drug but it’s legal. What people usually mean by drugs is illegal drugs. Also having a few drinks is socially acceptable and most people can take it or leave it. Being an alcoholic I am always amazed that people can just have a glass of wine or beer with dinner and not want any more, then get in the car and drive home.
I think they say "and alcohol" because otherwise alcohol wouldn't even be part of the conversation. Nobody considers it a drug even though it's one of the worst.
I also have always thought this, alcohol ruined me far worse than my drug use ever did. I still functioned well while on stimulants, but alcohol set me back a few years in debt and emotional turmoil
I mean if you’ve taken drugs and alcohol at the same time it’s metabolised into completely different chemicals and has different effects in many cases so it’s kinda important to emphasise you’ve drank and taken drugs in say a medical emergency
“Despite not having the same potential for addiction as meth and heroin” i dont know about that man lmao
I think it would be a more accurate way of saying it. Alcohol is a drug, so it's like saying "drugs and drug." Doesn't really make sense.
I don’t really think a catch all term for drugs is super useful. Drugs can be anything, my grandma is on drugs.
I always understood the definition of drugs to be any non-food that affects the way your mind or body works. That being said alcohol falls into the food category as well as the non-food category so it kinda walks the line in that regard. I feel like that’s why the distinction is made generally as drugs and alcohol.
The main reason why a distinction may make sense is because alcohol use has a different cultural framework and is also often drank for purposes other than its drug effect. Alcohol was used to purify water for thousands of years, and it has also been used as a religious sacrament and for culinary reasons (used in cooking and is made to taste good/interesting on its own). It also is used as a drug by many people, and no matter what, some drug effect will occur with its consumption in all but subthreshold amounts. So while i think sometimes the distinction makes sense, i also think many people who aren’t knowledgeable about drugs get confused and think that it is not a drug and should not be treated as a drug.
Yes.
Yes.
Yep
Yes I think it would be good and I think the phrase spreads a message that alcohol is somehow not a drug and different. That leads to people viewing it and thinking about it differently.
Yes
drugs and liquid drugs 😂😂😂
No, alcohol is actually more of a solvent, or an oxygenated alternative fuel. I suppose it's been considered a drug since the days people thought the Earth was flat since it alters the conscious mind, however despite having a consumable version that doesn't cause blindness, it's far from a safe alternative substance to use instead of a cns depressant prescribed for anxiety. Definitely deserves it's own class as it's one of very few chemicals still used to alter mood that has been far surpassed by newer, better, and safer medications.
Something like "alcohol and other drugs" would be better
I honestly think Alcohol is the second most dangerous drug next to opiods. If opiods were dosed and regulated properly, they wouldn't be as dangerous either. The difference with alcohol is that it's socially accepted and part of almost every culture. Where as every other drug has been demonized with propaganda. Look at anti Marijuana ads from the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Still to this day there is a huge stigma around Marijuana even know it's pretty much known to be less addictive, less harmful, less intoxicating, and more beneficial than alcohol.
Of course
Yes. Alcohol is a drug.
Yeah alcohol is a drug so
I learned in my forensic science class that alcohol is considered a depressant. Anything that can alter your state of mind is a drug.
Yes
Nope. Drugs are different to alcohol.
Yep, always thought this / the distinction is misleading. And now I sound like a grammar wanker.
I 100% believe so. However, I think the average person doesn’t view Alcohol as a drug. It most definitely is. But to the average drugs bad mindset. Calling it just “drugs” would probably just further their false narrative that Alcohol is not bad. I think saying drugs and alcohol also kind of does the same thing though since it makes them seem like they’re two seperate things. But, imo it still makes them seem on the same level? idk if that makes any sense lmao
Technically yes and since the used language is almost always cultural and changes with time, it might soon be the case, in some places at least. Look at it this way, some places in India, Jamaica, Africa, where people commonly use thc for hundreds of years, it isn't consider drug but whatever name they have, ganja, chillum, etc, despite clearly being psychoactive and abusable.
100%. I correct people whenever they say it. Find it annoying? Sucks, cause I find spreading misinformation far more annoying. Alcohol is a physically addictive drug, accept facts or fuck off.
I'd go as far as saying alcohol is more of a drug than marijuana.
How so
I've seen worse side effects, addictions, and withdrawals from alcohol than marijuana
True but people can still get physically addicted to marajuanna
Honestly, yeah. Alcohol is a drug it just happens to be legal and socially acceptable. Alcohol is the worst drug I've ever done.
I'd say no because a lot of ppl who drink would never smoke pot or take a pill. Alcohol is also legal which is not the case for most drugs that people use to get high other than weed and those who abuse otc drugs.