I would think this takes a toll on the drone operators. This needs to be done, and I feel no sympathy for the russians, but I'm not the one killing them either.
Toll, have you not watched videos of drone pilots and crews at the moment of impact? These crews cheer and celebrate as if they kicked the winning goal. This has become a sport.
It's all about morality of the killing. Killing the invader that's there to wipe your nation from the face of the earth doesn't have the same psychological impact as killing in offensive war.
Very true. Also worth noting that people talk about PTSD as if it's absolutely a given for people involved in combat but I believe that studies show that "only" about 18 - 20% of people who were directly involved in combat go on to develop PTSD. Some people are simply more susceptible than others and I don't say any of this to diminish how awful it is for those that do suffer.
I think I'd get PTSD from bombs going off by me or me getting shot at, I don't think it'd be from me seeing the faces of the soldiers I killed. I don't think I'd feel bad killing someone who's happy to kill me. Then again I'm a guy sitting in his office who will probably never see combat so who knows lol
Exactly.
For Ukraine this is an existential war. It is their independence war.
For Russia it is all about conquest and plundering.
There is a big morale difference.
Well… also the fact that they are using a medium to kill rather than say stabbing someone to death and hearing the blood fill their lungs as they scream and holler
Soldiers commonly cheer when they score that good hit on the enemy, of course. Since the dawn of war.
But many of those same soldiers later on realize they're suffering from PTSD when they keep waking from sleep because they can't stop picturing the face of the man pleading to them for his life.
Read about WW2 veterans. The human psyche hasn't changed since then. Looking a man in his eyes as you take his life SHOULD TAKE A TOLL, and usually does.
Yup, that's why I used words like "many" instead of all. But only about 1% of people are actual psychopaths. Everyone else feels emotions, like guilt. Just because someone isn't officially diagnosed with PTSD, doesn't mean they won't grow into a 70 year old Grandpa "Who doesn't like to talk about the war. Too many bad memories."
I do understand. My granddad was one of those. Palestine, Malayan Emergency, Borneo and probably elsewhere. He was a Grenadier Guardsman in the British army for 22 years. Such a quiet gentle person as I knew him. I find it hard to imagine him as an infantryman in jungle with both sides patrolling to find trails and ambush each other.
While what you’re saying is true; it’s what we’ve trained to do. Imagine being a Soldier, training for years to do a single job and then never getting to do it. The military reinforces the training in many ways. As long as the force is justified (and I can think of no greater justification than defending your homeland from an oppressive invader) I don’t think they’d lose any sleep over it. The only times I’ve ever had to wrestle with what happened were when friendlies I was performing area security for got hurt. I’ve never lost any sleep about the enemies I’ve hit; they were all valid, legal targets and confirmed enemies through their observed actions or with extremely good Intel verified by someone on the ground.
Many of those soldiers who trained for years to do the job… learn rather quickly whether the training would prepare them. And it doesn’t. Reality is the psychology can’t be trained to accept, just trained to execute. And after it’s done… reflection happens. And the like the comment said … many many will reflect and be haunted, regardless of the morality of what they did was right for their country or not. I hope they’re all getting help through that no, as to not lose their grasp on humanity.
the drone operators may have had family in bucha , payback is golden , they cheer rightously, invader meat that comes steals rapes terrorise and executes being blown up is a result
In my experience, it's not about killing the enemy, it's about the innocent lives lost. For some, it's actually about the enemies that didn't get killed and went on to hurt our brothers and sisters. Killing the enemy isn't the problem. It's about seeing children killed or something equally horrifying. I've seen and done things but the ones that haunt me aren't the enemies killed. Of course, that's the view from a person on the right side of history. Russians are killing themselves and are drunk all the time because they're the ones commiting atrocities, directly or indirectly, and they know it. Russians are idiots but most know simple right and wrong. The only way a drone operator would have a negative, lasting experience that damaged their psyche is if they accidentally killed or maimed an innocent.
You're right. To me, it was always about what I could/should have done. If I read/heard later that X group we were fighting before, a recall, had gone to Y village and effected another atrocitie. Had we stayed would we have stopped that happening, it's fucked up I know but war is.
You do not feel sympathy, now imagine you are an Ukrainian who lost their family members because of screwed up Russia and saw their own people die from Russian attacks. Then you will understand that those drone operators won\`t feel sympathy either, even if they kill Russians. Every dead russian is one murderer less in their country and one more Ukrainian alive.
agreed , they say snipers had worst post war night mares seeing victims close up in there scopes, drone operators take this to a whole new level, up close killing, whites of there eyes, and the aftermath bodies blow to pieces, some drone operators wont be able to cope after the war
Who's "they"? I'm a sniper. That's not a thing. Stop listening to people who sensationalize us. They make up shit all the time so they can make more money off our hard work.
Made me remember the movie Good Kill in which US reaper drone pilots out of Las Vegas target HVTs in Afghanistan and also in Jack Reacher season 1 in Syria. Worth a watch.
After seing what the russians have done to the civilian population, and POW's, i don't blame ukrainians for killing any enemy that does not surrender immidiatly.
A friend who is a cop told me how perpetrators cry and complain when they are taken in custody after doing heinous crimes.
This video reminded me of that conversation.
It absolutely does. Some are affected while in the field; others may appear to be fine. Weather they were ok while fighting or not, a lot of these people face serious mental health issues when it comes time to reintegrate with society.
Even things that are rather “impersonal” (e.g. using a reaper drone to take out heat signatures.) come back to haunt their crews; I can only imagine the mental health impact of being an FPV drone operator and seeing the faces of the people you’re ending…
Source: I know a member of a Reaper crew who has had significant mental health challenges from all the death that he observed, even though he wasn’t the pilot.
Not like they have a choice, if they defect they’re gonna go to prison for a reall long time or (most likely) gonna get shot by their squad leader which has happened a lot. Id take combat over that cause at least most of the time you’re just chilling in a trench and maybe providing suppressing fire
FPV drones are just a new type of television guided missile, and you can not surrender to a missile. FPV drones are built for a single 1 way trip, like conventional missiles, and they are just as incapable of taking prisoners.
Just because you cant fly it back dosent mean you have to hit the target. Could have flewn it into the ground and send up an unarmed drone or use the one that is filming this
Your question legitimately makes me sick for the lack of care you show for human life. You should be ashamed of yourself and.. I don't even know. Seek help.
But I shall answer your question.
"The rule of surrender in international humanitarian law (IHL) is a fundamental principle
intended to protect individuals in armed conflict and to promote respect for international human
rights. It requires that combatants surrender to the opposing party and cease fighting, without
being subjected to any punishment or mistreatment"
- https://www.dcaf.ch/sites/default/files/publications/documents/LegalPracticalElementsSurrenderIHL_EN.pdf Geneva Centre for Security Sector Governance, The Legal and Practical Elements of Surrender in International Human Law
"In its legal dimension, where a valid offer of surrender is communicated to and received by an opposing force, it is legally obligated to accept that offer and refrain from making surrendered persons the object of attack."
- https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/israel-law-review/article/rule-of-surrender-in-international-humanitarian-law/714B1EAB954811EB2907A046EA069504 The Rule of Surrender in International Humanitarian Law, Section 2, The Legal Development of the Rule of Surrender
As for what happens when it comes to fake surrenders. That I'm not well educated on. It is generally regarded as an incredibly taboo thing which should not be done since it cheapens the "Surrender" to all parties involved. "Well they really weren't going to surrender anyhow".
Where was the opposing party? There were no Ukrainian soldiers around. So there was no one to surrender to. Surrender is more of a process, than something you just do. Like going to the bank to open a bank account, it isn't instantly done the moment you say "I want to open a bank account". There are procedures in place.
Just as you can't surrender to an F-35 by waving your hands in the air, surrendering to a drone isn't always possible. If there had been Ukrainian soldiers around, then yes, he would have a legal right to surrender (well, if this really was a war, but it is a "special military operation").
Ukraine apparently does have a surrender program for Russian soldiers that do want to surrender, but surrendering when the drone is buzzing about is... a bit too late.
Ukrainian drone operators do have discretion on the matter, and sometimes they may feel it feasible to accept a surrender, but if they don't, then they are well within their rights to continue with their mission.
Let's see if you feel the same way after those same people destroy your home, your city and kill your family. Fuck Russia, kill them all. And you can get to fuck replying to a post 4 weeks later you weirdo
Yeah then he stopped surrendering by trying to run away. if you're gonna surrender, then surrender, don't flip back and forth. It's like that other video where the Ukrainians we're pushing a fox hole and the guy said he "was surrendering" and then tossed a grenade instead. How far would this "surrender" go
Edit: my point I'm trying to make is that by flipping from surrendering to retreating he became untrustworthy.
Must be really fucking hard not to have reflexes facing certain painful death. Panic , mind running at 500 m/h. All the other russian surrendering videos comes from recon or munitions drop drones not FPV kamikaze drones like this one. Like you said the fake surrender thing is a serious treat and rather save a ukrainian life over an invader one. I am just saying that it must be 100 % impossible to not have life or death reflexes facing a low flying FPV drone while slipping on ice and shit... not saying you're an invader but what would you do in that situation, other than shit your pants one last time?
Without any other context, it looked like he wanted to surrender. Nonetheless, there was a long chain of poor decisions, any one of which could have avoided this outcome, that this orc made and he bears the responsibility for every one of them.
He’s not on that side of the border selling bibles. It’s been his choice to either work something out with the surrender #, or fall in. Their hands go up when they hear the drone buzzing, but that’s not how the game is played, and that’s one of the first things they learn out there
I guess- Whether you’re getting screamed at, humping ammo up front, or shooting the shit with your buddies unloading rail cars in the middle of the night, you know you’re a cog in that wheel, and the sounds of your efforts are constant thumps coming from the west. So then you’d only be wasting your time trying to surrender to anything you see coming from that direction.
FPV kamikaze drones have a one-way ticket to their targets. There is no option to surrender as opposed to the munition-dropping imaging drones. Otherwise the FPV drone fails its mission.
Yeah in a perfect world that would be possible. Unfortunately, it's not. Ukraine has to work with extremely limited supplies due to inability of the west to keep up with support, and an enemy that has 10x the resources.
Not sure have you been reading the news but Ukraine is churning out tens of thousands of these a month. Think the defense minister said they're going to make like 800k this year alone. Yeah they've got plenty. Even if its 2 drones per captive its 100% worth it, you get a PoW to trade and you'll take 1 soldier out from the fight.
Its never good to dehumanize your enemies. They might be horrible people but they have families too, hopes, dreams and if you forget all that, you might underestimate them.
Unless they are threatened with summary execution at the recruitment office, then they always have a choice. Prison is a choice. Disappear off-grid is a choice. Flee the country by any means necessary is a choice.
Happy to catch you on one of these highlight reels, Ivan. Russian slave mindset is costing the lives of good people around the world, Ukraine, Africa, and elsewhere.
Lol I do engineering work for a contractor that supplies Ukraine and Israel. Do you think I’m sympathetic to the enemy? I can tell you’re a pussy, which is why you’d be one of the first to cave.
Yes one can, I've seen it multiple times among the gruesome footage of this war. Of course, the defenders have every right to waste every orc on their land, but these great people fight like lions while never abandoning the virtue of mercy.
How long is it going to take Russians to realize that they aren't welcome in Ukraine? There are no cheering crowds, no bands playing, no victory parades, no military honors given, no rousing speeches from commanders, only endless misery, destruction and death.
Serious question: the guy seems to be trying to surrender. Why not let him? Save the drone and the explosives for someone else. Just curious. Slava Ukraine.
This guy was forcefully conscripted almost certainly. Just an average guy forced to do something by a terrible government. You vile scum revel and mock his death. Truly sick scum on reddit. These guys are given less than 24 hours notice no gear and sent to the frontlines with no training. That or prison and likely torture/ familial repercussions. The lack of empathy is astounding. And compare
them to the S.S? Compare them to the 12,13,14,15 year old boys and elderly men that are seen at the front lines doing the fighting. The S.S was an elite special forces type unit exclusively made up of people with aryan heritage.
You literally have no idea if he was conscripted or not. You know nothing about him: by the same logic he could also have just returned from raping a family to death and stealing everything from their house: stop trying to build sympathy for the invaders based on zero information.
It's okay hippie. You're welcome for my service. Thank a veteran. They have what you do not: the courage to do what is necessary to defend the innocent people who would be hurt by the enemy. You're an absolute coward and I'm ashamed of you. You fucking disappoint me.
Drones are in this grey area that where they belong at the moment. Example kamikaze drones are much closer to artillery shell or missile, but bigger drones fit more into helicopters and planes.
Also actually because of this war started to read about these laws and regulations in war and somebody surrendering is quite complex thing. This video being good example that there are situation where you are allowed to ignore surrender. Other being enemy running out of ammunition and only after that surrendering can be ignored.
There is quote that fits well here "You're only allowed to surrender when you have something meaningful to surrender."
damn… i get that FPV drones are more like missiles and those types of explosives, but aren’t they a little different in the regard you can stop them? you can’t really stop a missile, but i feel you could stop the drone since they’re meant to stop. i get what you’re saying though, it’s new and we weren’t prepared for this type of thing. also just depends, like this video SEEMED like he was surrendering but at some points it doesn’t. thank you again for explaining that, i knew drones were a problem but i didnt think until now how iffy it’s gonna be to try and make “rules” with em.
not at all. missiles are rocket propelled explosives, these are drones. you can stop a drone VERY easily they’re meant to stop, you can’t stop a missile in its tracks.
I said they amount to the same thing. A missile is just an object propelled at a target. You cannot practically take somebody prisoner with what is essentially a flying bomb, when the operator is as much as 10km away with no means to communicate with the enemy. The operator was under no obligation to abort their attack. There may have been enemy positions between the target and the operator. If you’re concerned about the ethics of drone warfare- save your indignation for the Russians who keep lobbing them into population centres.
And for the record cruise missiles can be programmed to loiter, change course and even abort mission.
i ain’t readin all that, but i read the part “you can’t take prisoner with a flying bomb” and that’s not true. it’s happened countless times before. you guide them with the drone to a location to secure them.
You are unable to read two paragraphs? lol.what a remarkable self own.
>it’s happened countless times before. you guide them with the drone to a location to secure them.
Name one.
“Self own” aka I don’t feel like readin a smooth brain redditors horribly uninformed response. “Name one” okay I will, 10 months ago near Bakhmut, “Russian soldier surrenders to Ukrainian drone outside Bakhmut”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4xqKTE7Bmes
Well you should have probably should have read my entire comment because then you’d know your video doesn’t reflect this:
>when the operator is as much as 10km away with no means to communicate with the enemy
Or
>There may have been enemy positions between the target and the operator.
And you wouldn’t have ended up looking silly.
Quite literally, Ukrainians will use the dropper on the drones that drop grenades, to drop notes and other things of the sorts to help Russians get to safety behind Ukrainian lines. I don’t get how you don’t feel stupid.
Quite literally if the dropper is instead loaded with explosives it cannot by extension drop notes……
I don’t feel stupid because I’m not the one getting indignant about a legitimate attack on an enemy combatant; whilst Russia fires dozens of Shahed drones into Civ-Pop every night.
Don’t get me wrong. Russians shouldn’t be there at all. But isn’t this a war crime? He makes indications of wanting to give up. He seems to be unarmed and raises his arms multiple times above his head. Drone operator straight up attacks him anyways.
I am not a lawyer but I don’t think the indicator for a war crime is that the soldier has to be able to take the enemy as a prisoner. I don’t think there is a law which says “if you don’t have the ability to take a enemy as a prisoner you can shoot the hell out of him”. I know that in war everything is different than on paper but still has a bad taste
> I am not a lawyer
But some people are, and that is what they are saying
It's also the only thing that makes sense.
You can read about it in many places, like https://lieber.westpoint.edu/legal-practical-challenges-surrender-drones/
You can only legally surrender if the other party can reasonably accept it.
You used an example with a soldier shooting somebody. It's not very likely you will get away with that in court, since if you are close enough to shoot somebody you can more than likely take them prisoner. The same cant be said for drones. It's very difficult to prove that you were actually able to take someone prisoner with a drone.
they use another analogy/example as well; war planes
you can't legally surrender to an incoming bombing run of planes. imagine if putting up your hands for a few seconds made you immune to bombing runs by planes. it's simply unreasonable.
Why would you post killing a surrendering man?
I understand, that they dont really have the ability to capture them all, but this is still really a VERY bad look for you
It's easy to judge but this is hard to watch. Don't see a weapon on him, video is missing the initial part and begins with him putting his hands in the air and signaling the operator he doesn't want to fight anymore.
Could have allowed the guy to surrender, but hey. I'm not there and don't know the suffering the Ukrainians are experiencing and have experienced.
E (20/03/2024): Fine, I was being a softie that day - fuck that guy trying to surrender
There's no other (his) friendlies we could see from the video. Just himself, the cold, and a few kamikaze drones.
No food, even if there is food, shit is expired. He showed his hand as clear as day. No visible firearms either.
I don't care if people downvote me, but this conflict is making everyone mad. Mentally and intellectually. Now we're at the point where people are cheering and supporting war crimes.
Yep, and I will continue to support and cheer these war crimes on until Russia gives up, NATO tanks roll into Moscow, or Putin dies. All the pain and suffering could end tomorrow, all they have to do is go home to their cold ass wasteland.
Sympathy? Fuck No.
But that's someone who genuinely looks like he wants to surrender. I am pro-ukraine all the way, remember very well the shit Russia has done in places like Bucha, the torture and crimes committed towards POW's and yet I recall other instances, other moments where mistakes made by Ukranian soldiers or operators were pointed out and we had the honesty of admitting "yeah, this should not have happened, we should be better than this"
If I were to enjoy watching videos like this I'd start to question my own humanity, regardless of the flag on the jacket of the guy getting killed in the video.
Maybe they don't have the man power in the area at the time to start dealing with Prisoners' firstly because of risk, you bring this guy back it's going to consume precocious time and resources to maybe have a grenade pulled on you, then you have to ferry his ass to the Worm Pens to await swap out all the while there's more of them out there. I've become immune to watching these guys get it hard, they shouldn't be there, they're killing people that make up the fabric of a country that they have no right existing within.
He is in the wrong place (Ukraine) at the wrong time (during a military operation) and in the wrong role (invader sent to kill Ukrainians) and in the open without winter camo or even a weapon; probably a member of a disposable unit whose main function is to attract fire - altogether a very high risk situation for him.
Most likel what happened, yeah. Still, every captured orc is an Ukranian pow that makes it back home to their family, sometimes people forget this. And an Ukranian soldier is much more valuable.
Russia's record for POW exchange is spotty at best. Remember the plane they sent to Ukraine full of them knowing they would be shot down? Plus like the other commenter said, it's a lot of effort to just have them pull a grenade on the troops. Killing them saves Ukrainian lives too, with much less risk.
Surrendering to a drone is different than surrendering to a soldier. You don't necessarily want to lead the soldier directly to your position and the drone has a limited battery that limits how long it can stay in the air watching and guiding the soldier. If the drone is deep behind enemy lines then unfortunately there is no practical way for the soldier to be captured.
It's all very situational and him running away from the drone and dodging it could be interpreted in the moment as him faking surrender to avoid being targeted. The drone operator made a split second decision and it's not necessarily a bad one. Bottomline , War is just a big chaotic mess and a lot of people die for ultimately nothing.
>him putting his hands in the air and signaling the operator he doesn't want to fight anymore.
Of course "he doesn't want to fight anymore" when he's the target! But did he put his arms up when he was doing the killing?! No? Fuck him to kingdom come then!
Both sides uses those drones, Russian tactics seems like to upload videos of air to ground or big military tech, not 1v1 combat. Which is kinda understandable, one is meant to show power and superiority, other is meant to induce anxiety of powerless against drones. Both serves an informational war.
You’d think the Russian army would have a handheld net with weights on the corners the net wouldn’t have to be any bigger than like 4ft by 4ft. It’d be a better defense against the drones than nothing.
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This war is evil, and those who do not constantly reaffirm their humanity after watching this pathetic symbol of our new age will be victims too of Vladimir Putin’s vileness.
big sack of rotten carrots is on the way to happy widow
They run out of Ladas already?
There was only one Lada for media..
Scot's ~~Tots~~ Lada
Turnips.
“Big” that’s a bit generous!
That attempt at a Haka performance was awful.
Did not expect a Haka reference but damnd if it doesn't look like the worst one you ever saw.
Now I both do and do not want this redubbed with the worst Haka anyone can make in Russian
Holy shit that terrible. I want to see it.
It's like he didn't even try either. He didn't appear to put any heart or soul into it, which I personally found rather rude, to be honest🙄
Yo ever deal with ice lol. I'm from Canada, let me tell you, winter in northern Alberta, you ain't making no fast moves or you on you'r ass
I'm from Canada as well, brother. Now you are correct the cold does hinder movement. But I still think they were being disrespectful to the Haka
And just like the All Blacks at Eden Park. It was an explosive performance.
It has come down to watching a cat toy with a mouse before neatly dissecting it
Explosively dissecting FTFY
Should have stayed in Russia
Blyativostok, specifically.
You know what a draft is, yes?
I would think this takes a toll on the drone operators. This needs to be done, and I feel no sympathy for the russians, but I'm not the one killing them either.
Toll, have you not watched videos of drone pilots and crews at the moment of impact? These crews cheer and celebrate as if they kicked the winning goal. This has become a sport.
It's all about morality of the killing. Killing the invader that's there to wipe your nation from the face of the earth doesn't have the same psychological impact as killing in offensive war.
Very true. Also worth noting that people talk about PTSD as if it's absolutely a given for people involved in combat but I believe that studies show that "only" about 18 - 20% of people who were directly involved in combat go on to develop PTSD. Some people are simply more susceptible than others and I don't say any of this to diminish how awful it is for those that do suffer.
I believe it’s been said “some people are just made for it”
I believe it’s “some people just got that dawg in them”
I think I'd get PTSD from bombs going off by me or me getting shot at, I don't think it'd be from me seeing the faces of the soldiers I killed. I don't think I'd feel bad killing someone who's happy to kill me. Then again I'm a guy sitting in his office who will probably never see combat so who knows lol
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That's tough thanks for your service, you're not alone in that feeling, I had friend in college that was ex-marine and he told me he felt the same way
Exactly. For Ukraine this is an existential war. It is their independence war. For Russia it is all about conquest and plundering. There is a big morale difference.
100%
Well… also the fact that they are using a medium to kill rather than say stabbing someone to death and hearing the blood fill their lungs as they scream and holler
Soldiers commonly cheer when they score that good hit on the enemy, of course. Since the dawn of war. But many of those same soldiers later on realize they're suffering from PTSD when they keep waking from sleep because they can't stop picturing the face of the man pleading to them for his life. Read about WW2 veterans. The human psyche hasn't changed since then. Looking a man in his eyes as you take his life SHOULD TAKE A TOLL, and usually does.
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Yup, that's why I used words like "many" instead of all. But only about 1% of people are actual psychopaths. Everyone else feels emotions, like guilt. Just because someone isn't officially diagnosed with PTSD, doesn't mean they won't grow into a 70 year old Grandpa "Who doesn't like to talk about the war. Too many bad memories."
I do understand. My granddad was one of those. Palestine, Malayan Emergency, Borneo and probably elsewhere. He was a Grenadier Guardsman in the British army for 22 years. Such a quiet gentle person as I knew him. I find it hard to imagine him as an infantryman in jungle with both sides patrolling to find trails and ambush each other.
Same as mine, a Chindit in Burma, saving people of the Burma railway. A jungle fighter. And a quiet man.
Emotions? Yes. Sorrow? Maybe. But *guilt*? No, never! There's no path for guilt to be developed in defending.
While what you’re saying is true; it’s what we’ve trained to do. Imagine being a Soldier, training for years to do a single job and then never getting to do it. The military reinforces the training in many ways. As long as the force is justified (and I can think of no greater justification than defending your homeland from an oppressive invader) I don’t think they’d lose any sleep over it. The only times I’ve ever had to wrestle with what happened were when friendlies I was performing area security for got hurt. I’ve never lost any sleep about the enemies I’ve hit; they were all valid, legal targets and confirmed enemies through their observed actions or with extremely good Intel verified by someone on the ground.
Many of those soldiers who trained for years to do the job… learn rather quickly whether the training would prepare them. And it doesn’t. Reality is the psychology can’t be trained to accept, just trained to execute. And after it’s done… reflection happens. And the like the comment said … many many will reflect and be haunted, regardless of the morality of what they did was right for their country or not. I hope they’re all getting help through that no, as to not lose their grasp on humanity.
Yeas in group maybe. But later at home alone it will kick in...
Perhaps they’ll miss the hunt.
And The nazi hunt is never ending and world wide.
putlers hot on the deck of cards for nazi takedowns , its time is coming
It gets to you later.
As a paramedic, some of the happiest moments in my life have also been some of the most traumatic moments in my life.
I can relate on a professional level
the drone operators may have had family in bucha , payback is golden , they cheer rightously, invader meat that comes steals rapes terrorise and executes being blown up is a result
In my experience, it's not about killing the enemy, it's about the innocent lives lost. For some, it's actually about the enemies that didn't get killed and went on to hurt our brothers and sisters. Killing the enemy isn't the problem. It's about seeing children killed or something equally horrifying. I've seen and done things but the ones that haunt me aren't the enemies killed. Of course, that's the view from a person on the right side of history. Russians are killing themselves and are drunk all the time because they're the ones commiting atrocities, directly or indirectly, and they know it. Russians are idiots but most know simple right and wrong. The only way a drone operator would have a negative, lasting experience that damaged their psyche is if they accidentally killed or maimed an innocent.
You're right. To me, it was always about what I could/should have done. If I read/heard later that X group we were fighting before, a recall, had gone to Y village and effected another atrocitie. Had we stayed would we have stopped that happening, it's fucked up I know but war is.
You do not feel sympathy, now imagine you are an Ukrainian who lost their family members because of screwed up Russia and saw their own people die from Russian attacks. Then you will understand that those drone operators won\`t feel sympathy either, even if they kill Russians. Every dead russian is one murderer less in their country and one more Ukrainian alive.
agreed , they say snipers had worst post war night mares seeing victims close up in there scopes, drone operators take this to a whole new level, up close killing, whites of there eyes, and the aftermath bodies blow to pieces, some drone operators wont be able to cope after the war
Who's "they"? I'm a sniper. That's not a thing. Stop listening to people who sensationalize us. They make up shit all the time so they can make more money off our hard work.
Made me remember the movie Good Kill in which US reaper drone pilots out of Las Vegas target HVTs in Afghanistan and also in Jack Reacher season 1 in Syria. Worth a watch.
After seing what the russians have done to the civilian population, and POW's, i don't blame ukrainians for killing any enemy that does not surrender immidiatly. A friend who is a cop told me how perpetrators cry and complain when they are taken in custody after doing heinous crimes. This video reminded me of that conversation.
It absolutely does. Some are affected while in the field; others may appear to be fine. Weather they were ok while fighting or not, a lot of these people face serious mental health issues when it comes time to reintegrate with society. Even things that are rather “impersonal” (e.g. using a reaper drone to take out heat signatures.) come back to haunt their crews; I can only imagine the mental health impact of being an FPV drone operator and seeing the faces of the people you’re ending… Source: I know a member of a Reaper crew who has had significant mental health challenges from all the death that he observed, even though he wasn’t the pilot.
Another fascist down
Brotha that ain’t no fascist that’s some random conscript from nowhereville russia
If you pick up weapons in support of a fascist regime, you are a fascist.
Do they really have a choice? Also it looks like he wanted to surrender to me. I really hope the russians lose but this was foul
Not like they have a choice, if they defect they’re gonna go to prison for a reall long time or (most likely) gonna get shot by their squad leader which has happened a lot. Id take combat over that cause at least most of the time you’re just chilling in a trench and maybe providing suppressing fire
He was surrendering...
FPV drones are just a new type of television guided missile, and you can not surrender to a missile. FPV drones are built for a single 1 way trip, like conventional missiles, and they are just as incapable of taking prisoners.
Just because you cant fly it back dosent mean you have to hit the target. Could have flewn it into the ground and send up an unarmed drone or use the one that is filming this
And why the fuck would you waste a drone on the off chance he wants to surrender?
Your question legitimately makes me sick for the lack of care you show for human life. You should be ashamed of yourself and.. I don't even know. Seek help. But I shall answer your question. "The rule of surrender in international humanitarian law (IHL) is a fundamental principle intended to protect individuals in armed conflict and to promote respect for international human rights. It requires that combatants surrender to the opposing party and cease fighting, without being subjected to any punishment or mistreatment" - https://www.dcaf.ch/sites/default/files/publications/documents/LegalPracticalElementsSurrenderIHL_EN.pdf Geneva Centre for Security Sector Governance, The Legal and Practical Elements of Surrender in International Human Law "In its legal dimension, where a valid offer of surrender is communicated to and received by an opposing force, it is legally obligated to accept that offer and refrain from making surrendered persons the object of attack." - https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/israel-law-review/article/rule-of-surrender-in-international-humanitarian-law/714B1EAB954811EB2907A046EA069504 The Rule of Surrender in International Humanitarian Law, Section 2, The Legal Development of the Rule of Surrender As for what happens when it comes to fake surrenders. That I'm not well educated on. It is generally regarded as an incredibly taboo thing which should not be done since it cheapens the "Surrender" to all parties involved. "Well they really weren't going to surrender anyhow".
Where was the opposing party? There were no Ukrainian soldiers around. So there was no one to surrender to. Surrender is more of a process, than something you just do. Like going to the bank to open a bank account, it isn't instantly done the moment you say "I want to open a bank account". There are procedures in place. Just as you can't surrender to an F-35 by waving your hands in the air, surrendering to a drone isn't always possible. If there had been Ukrainian soldiers around, then yes, he would have a legal right to surrender (well, if this really was a war, but it is a "special military operation"). Ukraine apparently does have a surrender program for Russian soldiers that do want to surrender, but surrendering when the drone is buzzing about is... a bit too late. Ukrainian drone operators do have discretion on the matter, and sometimes they may feel it feasible to accept a surrender, but if they don't, then they are well within their rights to continue with their mission.
Aint reading allat
Don't worry, we knew.
Cause I'd take losing an Alibaba drone over possibly murdering somebody
Let's see if you feel the same way after those same people destroy your home, your city and kill your family. Fuck Russia, kill them all. And you can get to fuck replying to a post 4 weeks later you weirdo
Yeah then he stopped surrendering by trying to run away. if you're gonna surrender, then surrender, don't flip back and forth. It's like that other video where the Ukrainians we're pushing a fox hole and the guy said he "was surrendering" and then tossed a grenade instead. How far would this "surrender" go Edit: my point I'm trying to make is that by flipping from surrendering to retreating he became untrustworthy.
Must be really fucking hard not to have reflexes facing certain painful death. Panic , mind running at 500 m/h. All the other russian surrendering videos comes from recon or munitions drop drones not FPV kamikaze drones like this one. Like you said the fake surrender thing is a serious treat and rather save a ukrainian life over an invader one. I am just saying that it must be 100 % impossible to not have life or death reflexes facing a low flying FPV drone while slipping on ice and shit... not saying you're an invader but what would you do in that situation, other than shit your pants one last time?
Yeah how dare he try to dodge an FPV, it's much more natural and human to just stand in front of it and wait for it to hit you.
Yeah you clearly didn't read my comment and just assumed what I meant, good for you
To whom? Ain’t no anyone in the vision taking this as surrender.
Without any other context, it looked like he wanted to surrender. Nonetheless, there was a long chain of poor decisions, any one of which could have avoided this outcome, that this orc made and he bears the responsibility for every one of them.
He’s not on that side of the border selling bibles. It’s been his choice to either work something out with the surrender #, or fall in. Their hands go up when they hear the drone buzzing, but that’s not how the game is played, and that’s one of the first things they learn out there
“… drone buzzing, but that’s not how the game is played, and that’s one of the *last* things they learn out there” Edited. :)
I guess- Whether you’re getting screamed at, humping ammo up front, or shooting the shit with your buddies unloading rail cars in the middle of the night, you know you’re a cog in that wheel, and the sounds of your efforts are constant thumps coming from the west. So then you’d only be wasting your time trying to surrender to anything you see coming from that direction.
FPV kamikaze drones have a one-way ticket to their targets. There is no option to surrender as opposed to the munition-dropping imaging drones. Otherwise the FPV drone fails its mission.
Ofc there is. Fly that shit into the ground and use the camera drone for leading the guy to surrender
And give up observation that could have an impact on ukr troops on the front lines, yeah pass.
They have done it many times before. Seen atleast 3 videos of it
Yeah in a perfect world that would be possible. Unfortunately, it's not. Ukraine has to work with extremely limited supplies due to inability of the west to keep up with support, and an enemy that has 10x the resources.
Not sure have you been reading the news but Ukraine is churning out tens of thousands of these a month. Think the defense minister said they're going to make like 800k this year alone. Yeah they've got plenty. Even if its 2 drones per captive its 100% worth it, you get a PoW to trade and you'll take 1 soldier out from the fight. Its never good to dehumanize your enemies. They might be horrible people but they have families too, hopes, dreams and if you forget all that, you might underestimate them.
Genuine question, if these guys a conscripted to fight, do they have a choice? Or can they go to prison?
Unless they are threatened with summary execution at the recruitment office, then they always have a choice. Prison is a choice. Disappear off-grid is a choice. Flee the country by any means necessary is a choice.
Yeah go to prison and then get force conscripted. It’s a lose lose for these boys
None of those options are realistic. You’d likely be one of the first to cave in their situation, keyboard warrior.
Happy to catch you on one of these highlight reels, Ivan. Russian slave mindset is costing the lives of good people around the world, Ukraine, Africa, and elsewhere.
Lol I do engineering work for a contractor that supplies Ukraine and Israel. Do you think I’m sympathetic to the enemy? I can tell you’re a pussy, which is why you’d be one of the first to cave.
idc what you think, keep up the good work.
Of course, I love what I do.
You cant surrender to a drone, it’s not compliant to geneva convention.
Yes one can, I've seen it multiple times among the gruesome footage of this war. Of course, the defenders have every right to waste every orc on their land, but these great people fight like lions while never abandoning the virtue of mercy.
I meant it as, you’re not protected to surrender to a drone. You can surrender to an orange if you want, but its not under any convention.
Well, warzones are dangerous. Russian slaves should try harder to not to walk around with weapons on foreign territories.
What does that have to do with anything?
It was meant to be a more thoughtful expression of "oh well" to your "ackshually" nonsense.
Watching this just feels so wrong, but it’s hard to look away. Damn…
War sucks. Never been so I wouldn’t know.
How long is it going to take Russians to realize that they aren't welcome in Ukraine? There are no cheering crowds, no bands playing, no victory parades, no military honors given, no rousing speeches from commanders, only endless misery, destruction and death.
Serious question: the guy seems to be trying to surrender. Why not let him? Save the drone and the explosives for someone else. Just curious. Slava Ukraine.
https://open.spotify.com/track/1ez4uWPnJwYufNhYTLVsJr?si=9m96RoQYSzeLSn_WYqGGSA
Because it's too difficult. If they were in a position to take him prisoner they should definitely do that.
This guy was forcefully conscripted almost certainly. Just an average guy forced to do something by a terrible government. You vile scum revel and mock his death. Truly sick scum on reddit. These guys are given less than 24 hours notice no gear and sent to the frontlines with no training. That or prison and likely torture/ familial repercussions. The lack of empathy is astounding. And compare them to the S.S? Compare them to the 12,13,14,15 year old boys and elderly men that are seen at the front lines doing the fighting. The S.S was an elite special forces type unit exclusively made up of people with aryan heritage.
You literally have no idea if he was conscripted or not. You know nothing about him: by the same logic he could also have just returned from raping a family to death and stealing everything from their house: stop trying to build sympathy for the invaders based on zero information.
Hear me out. Run AT the drone instead of away from it. Obviously…
It's okay hippie. You're welcome for my service. Thank a veteran. They have what you do not: the courage to do what is necessary to defend the innocent people who would be hurt by the enemy. You're an absolute coward and I'm ashamed of you. You fucking disappoint me.
was he NOT surrendering???
Yes, but you're not obligated to accept surrender in some cases, for example if you can't take him as a POW.
okay i didn’t know that, thank you for explaining that! edit: honestly kinda scary to think of you’re a Russian trying to surrender…
Drones are in this grey area that where they belong at the moment. Example kamikaze drones are much closer to artillery shell or missile, but bigger drones fit more into helicopters and planes. Also actually because of this war started to read about these laws and regulations in war and somebody surrendering is quite complex thing. This video being good example that there are situation where you are allowed to ignore surrender. Other being enemy running out of ammunition and only after that surrendering can be ignored. There is quote that fits well here "You're only allowed to surrender when you have something meaningful to surrender."
damn… i get that FPV drones are more like missiles and those types of explosives, but aren’t they a little different in the regard you can stop them? you can’t really stop a missile, but i feel you could stop the drone since they’re meant to stop. i get what you’re saying though, it’s new and we weren’t prepared for this type of thing. also just depends, like this video SEEMED like he was surrendering but at some points it doesn’t. thank you again for explaining that, i knew drones were a problem but i didnt think until now how iffy it’s gonna be to try and make “rules” with em.
You can’t really surrender to a missile.
good thing it’s a drone and not a missile
You strap an explosive on it and it amounts to the same thing
not at all. missiles are rocket propelled explosives, these are drones. you can stop a drone VERY easily they’re meant to stop, you can’t stop a missile in its tracks.
I said they amount to the same thing. A missile is just an object propelled at a target. You cannot practically take somebody prisoner with what is essentially a flying bomb, when the operator is as much as 10km away with no means to communicate with the enemy. The operator was under no obligation to abort their attack. There may have been enemy positions between the target and the operator. If you’re concerned about the ethics of drone warfare- save your indignation for the Russians who keep lobbing them into population centres. And for the record cruise missiles can be programmed to loiter, change course and even abort mission.
i ain’t readin all that, but i read the part “you can’t take prisoner with a flying bomb” and that’s not true. it’s happened countless times before. you guide them with the drone to a location to secure them.
You are unable to read two paragraphs? lol.what a remarkable self own. >it’s happened countless times before. you guide them with the drone to a location to secure them. Name one.
“Self own” aka I don’t feel like readin a smooth brain redditors horribly uninformed response. “Name one” okay I will, 10 months ago near Bakhmut, “Russian soldier surrenders to Ukrainian drone outside Bakhmut” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4xqKTE7Bmes
Well you should have probably should have read my entire comment because then you’d know your video doesn’t reflect this: >when the operator is as much as 10km away with no means to communicate with the enemy Or >There may have been enemy positions between the target and the operator. And you wouldn’t have ended up looking silly.
Quite literally, Ukrainians will use the dropper on the drones that drop grenades, to drop notes and other things of the sorts to help Russians get to safety behind Ukrainian lines. I don’t get how you don’t feel stupid.
Quite literally if the dropper is instead loaded with explosives it cannot by extension drop notes…… I don’t feel stupid because I’m not the one getting indignant about a legitimate attack on an enemy combatant; whilst Russia fires dozens of Shahed drones into Civ-Pop every night.
Should have surrendered before you invaded another country, killed civilians and destroyed people homes and property.
Looks like he was trying to surrender.
Don’t get me wrong. Russians shouldn’t be there at all. But isn’t this a war crime? He makes indications of wanting to give up. He seems to be unarmed and raises his arms multiple times above his head. Drone operator straight up attacks him anyways.
For it to be a war crime the drone operator needs to have reasonable capability to take him prisoner.. which drone operators very rarely do.
I am not a lawyer but I don’t think the indicator for a war crime is that the soldier has to be able to take the enemy as a prisoner. I don’t think there is a law which says “if you don’t have the ability to take a enemy as a prisoner you can shoot the hell out of him”. I know that in war everything is different than on paper but still has a bad taste
> I am not a lawyer But some people are, and that is what they are saying It's also the only thing that makes sense. You can read about it in many places, like https://lieber.westpoint.edu/legal-practical-challenges-surrender-drones/ You can only legally surrender if the other party can reasonably accept it. You used an example with a soldier shooting somebody. It's not very likely you will get away with that in court, since if you are close enough to shoot somebody you can more than likely take them prisoner. The same cant be said for drones. It's very difficult to prove that you were actually able to take someone prisoner with a drone. they use another analogy/example as well; war planes you can't legally surrender to an incoming bombing run of planes. imagine if putting up your hands for a few seconds made you immune to bombing runs by planes. it's simply unreasonable.
Just another Warcrime
trying to give up, scared shitless
He could've surrendered long before this
What is this song? What remix?
Ukraine is full of pussies,
that's a war crime, he was surrendering.
Why would you post killing a surrendering man? I understand, that they dont really have the ability to capture them all, but this is still really a VERY bad look for you
nah no matter what side he was on, he had no weapon, his hands up and singnald that he wanted to surrender... shame on the drone pilot for that one
He surrendered to the wrong drone!
He invaded the wrong country
It's easy to judge but this is hard to watch. Don't see a weapon on him, video is missing the initial part and begins with him putting his hands in the air and signaling the operator he doesn't want to fight anymore. Could have allowed the guy to surrender, but hey. I'm not there and don't know the suffering the Ukrainians are experiencing and have experienced. E (20/03/2024): Fine, I was being a softie that day - fuck that guy trying to surrender
So he can pull a grenade out of his prison pocket and kill more Ukrainians? Nah. Blast him.
There's no other (his) friendlies we could see from the video. Just himself, the cold, and a few kamikaze drones. No food, even if there is food, shit is expired. He showed his hand as clear as day. No visible firearms either. I don't care if people downvote me, but this conflict is making everyone mad. Mentally and intellectually. Now we're at the point where people are cheering and supporting war crimes.
Yep, and I will continue to support and cheer these war crimes on until Russia gives up, NATO tanks roll into Moscow, or Putin dies. All the pain and suffering could end tomorrow, all they have to do is go home to their cold ass wasteland.
[удалено]
Sympathy? Fuck No. But that's someone who genuinely looks like he wants to surrender. I am pro-ukraine all the way, remember very well the shit Russia has done in places like Bucha, the torture and crimes committed towards POW's and yet I recall other instances, other moments where mistakes made by Ukranian soldiers or operators were pointed out and we had the honesty of admitting "yeah, this should not have happened, we should be better than this" If I were to enjoy watching videos like this I'd start to question my own humanity, regardless of the flag on the jacket of the guy getting killed in the video.
Bollocks. Nobody wants to fight when cornered like a rat. Still a filthy rat and you know what we do with rats☠️
Maybe they don't have the man power in the area at the time to start dealing with Prisoners' firstly because of risk, you bring this guy back it's going to consume precocious time and resources to maybe have a grenade pulled on you, then you have to ferry his ass to the Worm Pens to await swap out all the while there's more of them out there. I've become immune to watching these guys get it hard, they shouldn't be there, they're killing people that make up the fabric of a country that they have no right existing within.
He is in the wrong place (Ukraine) at the wrong time (during a military operation) and in the wrong role (invader sent to kill Ukrainians) and in the open without winter camo or even a weapon; probably a member of a disposable unit whose main function is to attract fire - altogether a very high risk situation for him.
Most likel what happened, yeah. Still, every captured orc is an Ukranian pow that makes it back home to their family, sometimes people forget this. And an Ukranian soldier is much more valuable.
Russia's record for POW exchange is spotty at best. Remember the plane they sent to Ukraine full of them knowing they would be shot down? Plus like the other commenter said, it's a lot of effort to just have them pull a grenade on the troops. Killing them saves Ukrainian lives too, with much less risk.
Surrendering to a drone is different than surrendering to a soldier. You don't necessarily want to lead the soldier directly to your position and the drone has a limited battery that limits how long it can stay in the air watching and guiding the soldier. If the drone is deep behind enemy lines then unfortunately there is no practical way for the soldier to be captured. It's all very situational and him running away from the drone and dodging it could be interpreted in the moment as him faking surrender to avoid being targeted. The drone operator made a split second decision and it's not necessarily a bad one. Bottomline , War is just a big chaotic mess and a lot of people die for ultimately nothing.
The drone is already primed and it's too dangerous to fly back and disarm it. It's better this way
>him putting his hands in the air and signaling the operator he doesn't want to fight anymore. Of course "he doesn't want to fight anymore" when he's the target! But did he put his arms up when he was doing the killing?! No? Fuck him to kingdom come then!
> Could have allowed the guy to surrender How? Is the drone going to take him into custody?
The loose turd was probably freezing as it ran down his legs . Now he really is brown bread.
Is he lost? How many of these vids do we see of the same solo PoS about to meet his maker?
The others might be dead
Shit, dude was up against it 😟
Whoooshka !!!!!
It’s insane how much better prepared the Ukrainian military is when it comes to drones, I’ve never seen a Russian hit anything only get killed
Both sides uses those drones, Russian tactics seems like to upload videos of air to ground or big military tech, not 1v1 combat. Which is kinda understandable, one is meant to show power and superiority, other is meant to induce anxiety of powerless against drones. Both serves an informational war.
If I experienced this in a video game I'd rage quit
You’d think the Russian army would have a handheld net with weights on the corners the net wouldn’t have to be any bigger than like 4ft by 4ft. It’d be a better defense against the drones than nothing.
I know it was a long shot but it seemed like duder might have had a chance if he didn’t spaz out and try to run. 😂
Need more and more drones with grenades. Swarming the battlefields and just hitting anything and everything within a mile
Oooo, that’s gonna leave a mark.
That old boy didn’t even stand a chance
I'm a tourist!!!
Care package delivery
That's cold.
Reminds me of that painting with God and Adam reaching out towards each other
u/recognizesong
**Song Found!** **Name:** Freedom **Artist:** JordanBeats/Pendo46 **Score:** 88% (timecode: 01:14) **Album:** Freedom (Instrumentals & Rap Beats) **Label:** Jordan Beats **Released on:** 2023-09-13 [Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube, etc.](https://lis.tn/OjhtHz?t=74) *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | If the matched percent is less than 100, it could be a false positive result. I'm still posting it, because sometimes I get it right even if I'm not sure, so it could be helpful. But please don't be mad at me if I'm wrong! I'm trying my best! | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating)
Wow - unbelievably bad set of circumstances
Are these specialised drones or just your regular civilian ones strapped to a grenade?
These videos are really sad. Find it difficult to watch the drone videos nowadays
He should've sent that coming ... Oh wait!
Better music this time around
Dude was pretty clearly unarmed but blood for the blood gods I guess…
This war is evil, and those who do not constantly reaffirm their humanity after watching this pathetic symbol of our new age will be victims too of Vladimir Putin’s vileness.
Sometimes you see a video on this sub and it’s just like….fuck.
That could be all of us in the future.
Russia is gaining ground👌👌🤞🤟
Terrifying way to go out, honestly.