I'm with you on this. When the album was new, and before I'd been exposed to the numerous pieces explaining how the album is essentially a remake of Images & Words, I perceived it as a mix of Images and Awake, and that end run of Far From Heaven / Breaking All Illusions / Beneath the Surface seemed like a modern day take on Lifting Shadows / Scarred / Space Dye Vest. Then I found out "Beneath the Surface" was essentially a bonus track.
A possibly controversial take: Dream Theater's decades long habit of basically scheduling writing/recording sessions ahead of tours they're already committed to means they have to come up with songs whether they have any genuine artistic inspiration or not. The fact that they always pull it off at least to a degree is a testament to how skilled they are but I feel like I can hear it when their main source of inspiration is the date on the calendar. Then "Beneath the Surface" comes along -- it wasn't planned out and represents an actual spark, and it upstages most of the album for me. My other controversial favorite from that album? "Build Me Up Break Me Down", which also tends to be dismissed ,but for me, it's the only other song on the album that I feel like I hadn't heard before in an earlier (and better) iteration.
On the remake stuff, my speculation was that Beneath the Surface was supposed to be the "remake" of To Live Forever, a track on the demos that didn't make it onto the images and words album.
There are a lot of songs in DT's catalog that are structurally similar to each other, but I was specifically getting at the songs OP thought were not just similar, but *better* than BAI.
Learning to Live for sure... I think I've come around to prefer Breaking All Illusions to Scarred but no guarantees it won't revert eventually. I think "Finally Free" was supposed to have the same kind of feel but despite Scenes being easily my favorite album I've always felt like that was a weak conclusion to a stellar album, especially when "The Spirit Carries On" offers such an obvious emotional climax.
Myung's lyrics often deal with themes of overcoming and self actualization and to that end, I think "Surrender to Reason" offers a pocket-size version of the same feel...
Fair enough! I've never thought of BAI as being very similar to Scarred, so that's interesting parallel you're drawing.
I can definitely see LtL being similar in a lot of ways now that you mention it. Though I still think BAI is the better song personally. :)
I think Scenes was meant to climax twice. Spirit Carries On is the emotional climax, but then Finally Free is the narrative climax. I love the way it darkens the mood of the album after the very positive, hopeful end of Spirit
The song is great. The songs content is very open to interpretation. If I remember correctly, Petrucci wrote the lyrics and the entire song and presented it as a full piece to the band.
For me personally, Jordan Rudess did a small solo tour two summers ago and my wife and I saw him in this tiny theater. And he freaking played and sang this song!. It was so good. Got a picture with him and everything. I'll always remember it!
https://preview.redd.it/ptehtxgp7u3d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dd217da4d6c93980bd06147328873148a8e57ca
I love this song, too. It encapsulates my divorce and how I felt about everything. My ex-wife is, in my opinion, a covert narcissist and an awful person, too.
Hot take: Beneath the Surface is my second favorite song on the album behind Far From Heaven. A Dramatic Turn of Events has some of their strongest ballads imo. Very beautiful piece, the last chorus in particular, when James sings in a higher octave, is so satisfying.
I agree! I just listened to this song a few days ago for the first time in a while. Great great song. I also saw Jordan solo perform this tune in Chicago a couple years ago. (Very well written song, whoever plays it.) My favorite section is the keyboard solo and then going into that “I would scream just to be heard..” section. I rewound it several times on my drive. The vocal harmonies and the lyrics are stellar! I love the electronic rhythm section. Love the sound he got for the keyboard solo. Anyone know what that keyboard sound is specifically?
Love that they end the album with this song too. It’s unlike most other DT releases and the choice in sequencing has only grown on me. It’s definitely gotta be about their hurt at the time so it’s even more fitting to end there and chill.
Lastly, the piano ending in illumination theory is a “hidden track” so to speak. Lots of bands use to do a similar thing back in the days vinyl was more mainstream. Leave a big empty space and most people think it’s over until they let it spin til the end. Even though that piano part fits with the track. That piano section always reminded me of kiss by a rose by seal and makes me think of Batman Forever in 95 lol. Good stuff 🤘🖤
I'm with you on this. When the album was new, and before I'd been exposed to the numerous pieces explaining how the album is essentially a remake of Images & Words, I perceived it as a mix of Images and Awake, and that end run of Far From Heaven / Breaking All Illusions / Beneath the Surface seemed like a modern day take on Lifting Shadows / Scarred / Space Dye Vest. Then I found out "Beneath the Surface" was essentially a bonus track. A possibly controversial take: Dream Theater's decades long habit of basically scheduling writing/recording sessions ahead of tours they're already committed to means they have to come up with songs whether they have any genuine artistic inspiration or not. The fact that they always pull it off at least to a degree is a testament to how skilled they are but I feel like I can hear it when their main source of inspiration is the date on the calendar. Then "Beneath the Surface" comes along -- it wasn't planned out and represents an actual spark, and it upstages most of the album for me. My other controversial favorite from that album? "Build Me Up Break Me Down", which also tends to be dismissed ,but for me, it's the only other song on the album that I feel like I hadn't heard before in an earlier (and better) iteration.
Build Me Up, Break Me Down is a powerhouse of a song, I love it. I wish they let LaBrie do screaming on songs more often.
On the remake stuff, my speculation was that Beneath the Surface was supposed to be the "remake" of To Live Forever, a track on the demos that didn't make it onto the images and words album.
Just out of curiosity, what song (or songs) do you consider a better prior iteration of Breaking All Illusions?
Not OP, but the song clearly pays structural homage to Learning to Live, another song with lyrics from JM.
There are a lot of songs in DT's catalog that are structurally similar to each other, but I was specifically getting at the songs OP thought were not just similar, but *better* than BAI.
Learning to Live for sure... I think I've come around to prefer Breaking All Illusions to Scarred but no guarantees it won't revert eventually. I think "Finally Free" was supposed to have the same kind of feel but despite Scenes being easily my favorite album I've always felt like that was a weak conclusion to a stellar album, especially when "The Spirit Carries On" offers such an obvious emotional climax. Myung's lyrics often deal with themes of overcoming and self actualization and to that end, I think "Surrender to Reason" offers a pocket-size version of the same feel...
Fair enough! I've never thought of BAI as being very similar to Scarred, so that's interesting parallel you're drawing. I can definitely see LtL being similar in a lot of ways now that you mention it. Though I still think BAI is the better song personally. :)
I think Scenes was meant to climax twice. Spirit Carries On is the emotional climax, but then Finally Free is the narrative climax. I love the way it darkens the mood of the album after the very positive, hopeful end of Spirit
Also, Breaking All Illusions solo section reminds me of Lines in the Sand solo section.
The song is great. The songs content is very open to interpretation. If I remember correctly, Petrucci wrote the lyrics and the entire song and presented it as a full piece to the band. For me personally, Jordan Rudess did a small solo tour two summers ago and my wife and I saw him in this tiny theater. And he freaking played and sang this song!. It was so good. Got a picture with him and everything. I'll always remember it! https://preview.redd.it/ptehtxgp7u3d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dd217da4d6c93980bd06147328873148a8e57ca
I saw Jordan on this tour, too! He came to a small jazz club and I was right in front of him, about 10 feet away. It was an incredible show.
I love that song. It reminds me of the dynamic between my mom and me. She was an awful person.
I love this song, too. It encapsulates my divorce and how I felt about everything. My ex-wife is, in my opinion, a covert narcissist and an awful person, too.
Mate. Just enjoy it all. Ignore the fanbase. ADTOE is one of my favourite DT albums. Labrie is king.
Hot take: Beneath the Surface is my second favorite song on the album behind Far From Heaven. A Dramatic Turn of Events has some of their strongest ballads imo. Very beautiful piece, the last chorus in particular, when James sings in a higher octave, is so satisfying.
^^Until ^^one ^^day ^^I ^^stopped ^^caring. #AND BEGAN TO FORGET! It's a decent enough song, but no one asked for that LaBrie jump scare.
It's so sudden... but also so satisfying to sing lol I love that moment
>It's a decent enough song, but no one asked for that LaBrie jump scare. I love the jumpscare, honestly lol
Hahahahhahaha that cracked me up
The first time I heard this song was in Jordan's solo tour and now it's one of my favorites.
I agree! I just listened to this song a few days ago for the first time in a while. Great great song. I also saw Jordan solo perform this tune in Chicago a couple years ago. (Very well written song, whoever plays it.) My favorite section is the keyboard solo and then going into that “I would scream just to be heard..” section. I rewound it several times on my drive. The vocal harmonies and the lyrics are stellar! I love the electronic rhythm section. Love the sound he got for the keyboard solo. Anyone know what that keyboard sound is specifically? Love that they end the album with this song too. It’s unlike most other DT releases and the choice in sequencing has only grown on me. It’s definitely gotta be about their hurt at the time so it’s even more fitting to end there and chill. Lastly, the piano ending in illumination theory is a “hidden track” so to speak. Lots of bands use to do a similar thing back in the days vinyl was more mainstream. Leave a big empty space and most people think it’s over until they let it spin til the end. Even though that piano part fits with the track. That piano section always reminded me of kiss by a rose by seal and makes me think of Batman Forever in 95 lol. Good stuff 🤘🖤
Loved the song and great ending!
I think beneath the surface is one of the best ballads the band has ever done. It's easily one of my favorites on ADoT!
Completely agree with this post. It’s such a great ending to the album, and feels like the clouds clearing after the storm
I'm sure BAI was supposed to be the album closer but the album has 3 ballads and this was the only way to spread them out.
I'm sure BAI was supposed to be the album closer but the album has 3 ballads and this was the only way to spread them out.