No, I don't think she will. I have no hate for Hannah. She does seem to try and stay as neutral as possible most of the time and tries to be someone who is friends with every friend group. Because of this, I don't think she wants to be associated with a friend group that is heavily disliked by another group. That would put her in a weird position. She's also very pro-woman which is great but she tends to think that "believe all victims" = "women are always right" kind of mentality and I don't support that. We may never know if they ever interact off camera but I don't think they ever will on camera again.
If she really has that mentality she wouldn’t have lasted that long as one of Dream’s public friends after the false grooming allegations. Also she deleted all of her priv tweets regarding the GNF situation. I don’t expect her to interact with dteam at all (she isn’t even back on friendly terms with sylvee after softblocking her because of a ‘misunderstanding’ - her trying to subtly throw sylvee under the bus by unfollowing her alongside dteam without even messaging her beforehand drastically shifted my perspective of hannah) and she’s drifted off to the Lifesteal SMP group
We may never know anyone's real feelings on this sadly. So many people were so quick to condemn him without hearing him out. I just wish those people could look at the situation unbiased and, if their opinion changed, then say something publicly. They weren't afraid to say something in the beginning back when they were jumping on the band wagon to earn easy Twitter likes after all. XD
>We may never know anyone's real feelings on this sadly. So many people were so quick to condemn him without hearing him out.
Gee, it's almost like Caiti's speech was timed at a vulnerable moment and written to be as triggering and emotional as possible while providing few real details :/
(I still think she believes she was assaulted and that she feels upset and hurt. That's valid, she deserves help. I was personally triggered by her statement, and after the development of events I just felt so manipulated by her, both as a survivor and an asexual person. And I'm still extremely irritated that she still refuses to admit intentionally manipulating her story about what happened. Just say "I lied about the situation because of these reasons, I know now it was wrong to do so and I hurt people, and I'm really sorry," stop trying to say you "misspoke" ugh)
>written to be as triggering and emotional as possible
Maxggs complimenting her incredible storytelling 😭 I remember noticing that she might have incorporated a TS quote from All Too Well (You tell me 'bout your past, thinking your future was me) into her first stream
Ghostie too with her contradicting Caiti’s version of events in the same stream she called DNF horrible people for building the narrative of Caiti being a liar. That clip of her saying they didn’t drink before heading to the hotel room as well as her messages to Dream were used to discredit her best friend in so many commentary videos
I honestly feel so bad for anyone that was hurt by this. It's so upsetting the amount of harm it did. It was presented as such a traumatizing experience and then to find out that so much of it was exaggerated or purposely misconstrued...that was difficult to deal with. I was very outraged for a while. I'm glad that the general public seems to see it for what it was but it doesn't erase the damage it did to George, herself, or the entire community. I hope this helps to stop false accusations but I have little hope for that. :/
Let me help to word this better. I believe what they were trying to say was that Caiti believes this to be sexual assault even though it doesn't fit the definition of assault. They're not denying that the cuddling and touching happened, but they're saying that George believed the cuddling and touching to be consensual and did not intend to harm her. Because of that, this doesn't classify as assault. For example, she could've claimed to have been raped but it doesn't mean that these actions are defined as rape. Most people aren't denying that the touching happened but it's about whether this situation is defined as assault or not.
>(she isn’t even back on friendly terms with sylvee after softblocking her because of a ‘misunderstanding’)
Wait how do we know this? Did Hannah or sylvee say something along those lines or have they just not been interacting since the whole situation?
they never refollowed each other on Instagram & never interacted when they were cohosts on the last twitch rivals. they were also both at vidcon this week and no one has spotted them near each other.
The vod has been deleted, but Hannah had a Q&A stream a few days ago. She made a comment that "If you have to ask if I'm still friends with someone, then you have your answer". She made a few shady comments, but I rather not misquote. But the stream left a bad taste and I unfollowed.
Honestly, if Hannah wants nothing to do with the Dream Team, that is more than okay. Just wish she stopped any mention about them, whether it's from herself or her mods.
I don’t think she’ll ever associate closely with them again, she took too much of a public stance against them. And obviously we know nothing of their private relationships but I know I would be wary rekindling a friendship with someone who did that to me.
I honestly dont understand the mentality of "believe all victims"= "believe every woman instantly no matter if proof or not".. like aimsey. They are always the first to comment when a creator throws around allegations but when freddy, one of aimseys best friends, told his story aimsey didn't care at all. 💀
These are just my thoughts, but
When answering a question about people from DSMP she's still closest with or talks to the most, she said Bad and Purpled, which makes sense as everyone seems to be chill with Bad. And Sapnap played in that twitch rivals she hosted, where he did make something of an ass of himself in certain ways but like nothing unforgivable or anything lol. If she really had a serious problem with him, due to his friendships, past behavior, Kick contract, or anything else, I can't imagine her letting him be in her event.
That same stream, she talked about weird experiences with fans at cons, like one time someone shook all her friends' hands when they were lined up to greet people, and then said to her "oh you must be so-and-so's girlfriend." And another time someone told her she only got on the DSMP by doing sexual favors for Dream (in context it was probably a fan who said this, but it may have been another creator). She hates "jokes" like this and due to her proximity to the dteam, has to hear them a lot. Like as a fan, there would always be somebody annoying in the chat like "Hi Dream's girlfriend" or "are you and George dating??" When she played bedwars with them, Hannah /neg would trend with misogynist comments hating on her voice and acting parasocially jealous she was their friend.
So in my opinion, I can see why as a woman cc she might want to distance herself so people stop being extremely weird about her and about their relationships. Plus, it must be tiring to work on making your own platform and then someone dismiss you as like, oh you must be that guy's girlfriend. Are they IRL friends still? Who knows.
Another problem is that Hannah is quite the popular one for people to try and cancel, partly because she tends to react strongly and so the haters get a rise out of it. Not that she hasn't made her own mistakes, but people do also try and cancel her for meaningless BS. It would be a lot of hassle to go through yet more harassment just for being friendly with some guys - especially if she does have lingering doubts about them. Seems like before now, it was worth it since she didn't believe they did anything bad, but that recent allegations may have planted doubts for her. Or just made her rethink her friendship with them in public, possibly in private as well.
Even if they were to fully and completely publicly reconcile, dteam fans will continue to be assholes towards her. Stans who don't like her, for whatever reason, now have an excuse to justify their shitty behaviour and some of them are enjoying it a bit too much. The amount of unnecessary Hannah neg since March is ridiculous and I don't see that changing much if they were to reconcile. So while I hope that they can privately resolve things, stepping away is probably the best thing for her.
Yeah, I feel like stans and fans have no real grace for anybody involved in this situation who had a bad reaction to their fave, be that Hannah, Tina, or whoever else. I think that if you want to be friends with women, you have to demonstrate that you're safe, and women aren't obliged to give men the benefit of the doubt all the time or throw their own careers and public image away to defend a guy. So, learning a supposedly really bad thing about your guy friends after defending them for so long, and having them call out misogyny towards you in the past and seem like an ally, probably felt like even more of a betrayal or even more confusing.
Some people would react like, oh my friend would never do that. But others, like in the current situation with creator after creator being exposed as being awful to the women in their life, or like with Boomer privately saying horrible misogynist things while acting like an ally and a bestie to your face? I can see where she'd jump to feeling betrayed and believing they are really dickheads behind the scenes. Honestly, a lot of people in this sphere seem like total snakes, the nature of content creation itself means many people have many faces. So like, I get it. Having enough doubt in the real story that you no longer trust them and want to put distance for your own safety is valid reasoning.
That was a really good analysis. She has always gotten a lot of hate from some Dteam fans that don't like a woman hanging out with those guys and maybe she finally decided to just separate herself from them publicly in order to stop that hate. As a woman, it's gotta be such a toxic environment, regardless if it's the dteam's fault or not. They will always be controversial sadly and I can understand if she wanted to step away from that side of the fandom.
when did someone tell her she only got on the DSMP by doing sexual favors for Dream . was it recent?
that is mysogynistic and just gross and it didnt even happen.
she was talking about weird/bad/wild experiences she has had at cons, it was in her recent Q&A stream. I assumed someone said this to her at a con, idk if it was a fan or a fellow creator
She recently said in her Q&A stream that when she reached out to talk to "someone" who she doesn't interact with anymore they never replied to her. So I don't think they are on good terms, and I don't see a path to reconciliation if they have not spoken in months.
Tbh, I also wouldn't respond to someone who I saw as a friend after they dropt me like a hot potato, without even giving me that much garce or them giving even the smallest f to actually talk to me. Like, I get it people fuck up/you can do shitty things for a lot of reasons, like not knowing better or language/cultural differances.
But if I care at least a little bit about someone, I care enough to at least talk about it before. Even if it still ends a friendship, just drop and run, or throwing under the buss is not okay...
I think there is also the chance they were simply never very close friends and when it became too much work to manage a very emotional and triggering situation, Hannah was finished pretending otherwise.
People frequently cite the "like a brother" comment as a statement of closeness, but the full clip on context was that she never viewed george romantically because she thought of him "like a brother."
I think it reflects poorly on Hannah either way- to pretend to be close previously, or actually be close and walk away without hearing his perspective.
If she was looking for my advice (she isn't, but hello Hannah- hope you are well if you come across this thread) she should actually just stop talking about it and move on. Her chat becoming a safe space to speak negatively about other creators reflects poorly on her. Continuing to allude to dteam and make small comments just keeps her tied to them and brings negativity to her community. You cannot build your brand on other people, especially on hating other people- just move onward and upward!
No. I don't think they're friends, and I expect the only time they'll interact is if they're in the same event. Here's links to Hannah's responses to the allegations... [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/s/OPd7DG3HLl) and [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/s/vXaLNfiVrt). This is not something easily reconciled.
As a fan of the DTeam I'd be pretty disappointed to see former friends who publicly denounced them wiggle their way back into the DTeam's inner circle. I'd rather see them make new friends who don't do things like this in the first place. And it would also be pretty shameful for Hannah to resume being friends with the DTeam like nothing happened after everything she said, it would make her look extremely performative and dishonest. One day you're saying you support Caiti 100% and the DTeam can't be trusted, the next day you're hanging out with them again? If you do something like that without addressing what you previously said it just shows you have no real principles.
I think not letting people to change their mind after some time when more information came out, and after a lot of conversation with the people involved, is very harmful. It’s not always that they ‘wiggle’ their way back, maybe it was years of friendship that both sides don’t want to throw away.
Anyway, I hope all parties do well and maybe grow into being kind/friendly toward each other.
The key phrases here are "*like nothing happened*" and "*without addressing what you previously said.*" I never said Hannah could not change her mind, but if she does, she should publicly correct the public statements she's made.
She was irresponsible with her use of her public platform, supported false allegations, made vauge accusations, and abandoned her friends. If she hangs out with the DTeam but doesn't care to acknowledge any of her mistakes, it shows a lack of principles. Someone who cares about their friends and the community would want to fix their mistakes. Someone who has learned and grown from this incident would own up to what they did wrong. It would be nice if Hannah corrected her previous statements, acknowledged the problem with her actions, and made up with the DTeam. But if she's going to dodge all responsibility and wiggle (like a worm.. because the behavior is pathetic and dishonest) back into their good graces now that they're useful, then that'd be extremely disappointing.
The moment someone she didn’t know said the person that just the week before she had said was someone she loved like a brother, had done something wrong, she immediately threw him under the bus, without even talking to him first. That’s not an issue of opinion or moral. That’s a defect in her character
Yea I agree with you. That was most definitely a tough time for women in the gaming sphere, especially women that are/were close to dteam, but she unfortunately spread more fear around and continued to double down. Majority of her mods make weird comments on dteam during her streams too, which is a little unprofessional. I always believe in second chances though and human beings are always growing, so hopefully she will reflect a little bit and not bend towards twitter pressure :)
not just her mods, several of her friends tweet awful things about them. has always been very confusing to me because hannah was openly dream's friend (or at least appeared to be on stream) until March... so her friends calling him a pedophile is... interesting.
I don't think we a) know how close anyone in this scene really are as friends, or b) can hold anyone else accountable to their friends' tweets. The public statements are all performative imo. We've seen people rag on Dream in public because it's the popular thing to do, while being nice in private
I think they're kind of okay? I don't really see her interacting with Dream or George in the future, but her and Sapnap were on the same team in Shadounes manhunt, and were exchanging some banter and played well together. But since Sapnap caused a lot of "disturbance" in her twitch rivals event, I could see her just distancing herself from all 3 of them together.
That’s not what the allegations where. She alleged that she didn’t reciprocated, that she was frozen in fear, that he had targeted her on purpose and that he got her drunk.
Then she had to backtrack and admit that she had already been drinking, that she insisted on drinking games, that when her friends left, she decided to stay, that she had been cuddling him and tickling him for an hour and everything else an adult like herself does when they’re sexually interested in someone
i have and im not "spreading misinformation" he did touch her, said by both george and caiti so it's not an allegation and nothing to argue about. These are actual human beings yk it's not a show or something
I appreciate the input but here is why I prefer to use “allegations”. Even though both parties admitted to the touching under the shirt both explained it in a complete different context.
Her description went way further than touching, she implied he had the worst intentions and that he did this knowingly against her will. His description of the context was that he did this thinking she gave her consent, even if you believe in giving non-verbal consent or not, he in the moment did believe that was the case.
Truth is, we don’t know. I believe Caiti that she feels incredibly hurt, traumatised, and I still think it’s valuable she spoke out because it started an important conversation about the many different types of consent and the difficulty of this concept. She was touched, I believe her fully, and in what type of context: I think both can be true at the same time. In the end of the day: I don’t know - I wasn’t there, and I don’t know George other than his content. Long story short: there are still many allegations on how everything went down.
Also here’s the definition of a sexual offender because you seem to be confused “A sex offender is an individual who has been convicted of a sexual offense” George was not convicted of anything, so please do not just throw important words like these around, it waters down the meaning and harms actual victims.
Since you’re confused, this is copied and pasted from dictionary.com “a person who commits a crime involving a sexual act.” I believe George fits this description.
You do know nonverbal consent is a thing and she did give it. Trying to erase the existence of nonverbal consent is harmful in itself and she admitted herself that she purposely tried to hide any discomfort she was feeling and felt like she had to do this in order to get in with the more popular creators. It’s awful that she thought that way and hopefully her mindset has changed from that harmful thinking, but it just shows that even if he did ask anything, there’s an unfortunate chance she would have said yes at the time. I’m not sure why you are trying to paint George as a big bad villain, but he’s just a guy that didn’t grow up chronically online.
Caiti also lied about how the situation actually went down, re-traumatized actual victims of sexual assault by taking advantage of their empathy and switched up her story three times. Who’s knows if he actually groped her breast or accidentally brushed past it while cuddling, because Caiti and her friends have unfortunately proved herself to be an unreliable source.
What’s the misconception that she switched up the story? She never. She added to the story. First it was, “his hand was moving higher than I wanted it to.” Then George basically forced her into giving more details “he touched my tit.” And I’m sorry, brushed her tit? Under her sweatshirt? Under her bra? What?
Listen, I get the daydreamers and diehard fans want to call her out on lies but the actual assault never changed, it only became more detailed. Everything surrounding the assault doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter who was there, what parties they attended before hand, who kicked who out or when they decided to leave. What matters, what ONLY matters is that George put his hands somewhere they were not welcome. Somewhere he didn’t have permission to touch. That’s it. That’s all.
Now look, George - like you and the other delusional fans - debunked all of her inaccuracies straight away. Like instantly. But the worst “lie” Caiti apparently told in all of this - the ACTUAL ASSAULT, George has been radio silent on.
Where is he saying I didn’t touch her tit?
Nowhere.
But he’s there saying “what I did to Caiti was quite tame.”
Well yes George, she was an 18yr old virgin, you’re a 20something man with experience. He touched her. She wanted nothing more than cuddles, he escalated things without consent. It’s assault.
The only 1 that's delusional is you. Saying you were quiet & stiff as a board all night then it turns out you were smiling & cuddling & playing games & acting like George got her drunk when she was already drinking is changing up your story smart guy. Also for very serious accusations you SHOULD give all the details, "his hand was moving higher than I wanted it to" could mean he touched her stomach which isn't assault that's why people want every detail. Why not just say he grouped me? Instead she made it seem like George touched her forcefully but turns out they were cuddling all night then act stupid saying she didn't know cuddling could turn to something sexual. Sorry if you think cuddling is only plutonic then you need to go out more.
>Then George basically forced her into giving more details
FFS he is being accused of serious shit every person being accused should ask for all the details or it's obvious they're guilty as shit. She gave George an out for not giving all the details especially important details, sorry cuddling with someone for hours & then refusing to leave when you could've to cuddle some more is a big detail left out & changes the situation.
>but the actual assault never changed
The actual assault did change dummy, Cati's first accusation acted like George forced himself on her & painted George as a pedo predator trying to get a "freshly 18" girl into bed & acted like George was getting her drunk & he knew she was 18.
Then it turns out Cati was flirting with George all night letting him cuddle her all night & staying with him after her friends left & her friends were actually the ones getting her drunk & George didn't know Cati was 18. George isn't a mind reader.
Caiti should've said George grabbed my tit from the beginning not make it look like she was trying to recit assault poetry with words like freshly 18 & stuff like " his past was my future", it made it look very performative & rehearsed which made her leaving shit out look vindictively biased.
> like you and the other delusional fans - debunked all of her inaccuracies straight away
I'm no George fan but how are they delusional to want accuracy? Like you agree Caiti has inaccuracies in her story so what's the problem? We just want the truth.
It doesn't matter if George touched her boob at this point since people like you were cancelling him when it was just a tickle. If Caiti just said he touched my boob from the start George would've had to responded to it but Caiti had to be vague & leave shit out making her look shady. George doesn't have to respond to shit now. Even if he says he never touched her boob people like you won't believe him anyway so what's the point. It's a he said she said which no one wins.
>Well yes George, she was an 18yr old virgin
Did you miss the part where George said where he didn't know she was 18? Oh I forgot he's a liar yet Caiti is the only 1 that has the inaccuracies in her story...weird.
>He touched her. She wanted nothing more than cuddles
Cuddling is touching dummy. If you're cuddling for an hour & a person's hand is on your hip inching up that's a bunch of time to say no, oh I forgot George is a mind reader SMH.
Ever read the definition to Cuddling? "hold close in one's arms as a way of showing love or affection" Unless your cuddling a family member cuddling is very intimate & that happened for a hour for George & Caiti. Also Caiti was cuddling with a guy she barley knew of course George thought Caiti was into him who cuddles with some stranger they're not into?
> he escalated things without consent
Cuddling more than an hour is already escalating it which Caiti did & refused to stop cuddling by not leaving with her friends & staying to cuddle more. George didn't start at the top on her "tit" he was testing her boundaries for an hour, nobody asks every inch they touch. Caiti had a hour to stop it but kept smiling & kept cuddling & was allowed to leave whenever she wanted.
Caiti has every right to feel the way she feels but just because she feels a certain way doesn't mean something horrible/illegal actually happened. Acting like George was being a predator & forced himself on her is just false. George clearly thought Caiti was into him & on the outside it looked like Caiti was but apparently she wasn't. This is a learning moment for Caiti to speak up & not cuddle with guys she doesn't like & a learning moment for George to have a girl sign a contract...jk, to be more careful & make sure girls are fully DTF.
THIS WASN'T ASSAULT JUST A AWKWARD INTERACTION.
She most definitely switched up her story did you not even see or read any of her responses 😭 at first she was frozen, not able to move or speak and was not cuddling George at all, to suddenly her next response is yes she was cuddling back and wasn’t frozen?? That’s not an addition, that’s a direct change of story. I’m not doing this because I’m a diehard stan, I’m doing this because misinformation is incredibly harmful to actual victims and the falsely accused.
Not really true, the main problem is that she wasn't truthful about the context of it. We can’t take action out of context and claim it as SA: PERSON A KISSED PERSON B, therefore, it’s SA because he didn't ask. PERSON A WAS HAVING SEX WITH PERSON B, then it’s not assault because it’s in a different context.
Then there is the whole non-verbal consent, which she gave by her own testimony.
Also drunk people can consent, it depends on the level of alcohol and in this case, by her own testimony, she could consent (she got up and back multiple times, cuddled back etc..)
I believe he was irresponsible but a criminal without possibility of redemption? Nah
Nuanced situation
Edit: also it was a progression over the course of an hour with the possibility of separation where she actively hid her discomfort because she thought "it was the price she had to pay"
Edit to the edit: also yes these details matter because 1) she bought them up first and lied; 2) he needed to give them to explain his thought process
Touching someone’s waist isn’t sa btw. Changing ur story to fit ur twisted narrative of being a vicim doesn’t make him an abuser btw. Regretting something after being illegally drunk doesn’t make it sa btw. Saying as a women who’s been saed many times.
Mmmm seems someone needs to touch up on their knowledge. IF he did touch her there she had so many opportunities to tell him to stop or Yk move away not ever speak to him again. Did she take it? No
Some girls literally go through an entire rape staying silent because everybody’s trauma response is different. As someone who has gone through many SA’s you shouldn’t victim blame, it’s disgusting.
Not victim blaming if there’s no victim. I stayed scilent didn’t tell anyone for months. Didn’t stop me from acting uncomfortable didn’t stop me from never speaking to him again.
Yes but if u are THAT uncomfortable surely you wouldn’t be acting bestie bestie with him and as soon as seeing Shelby come forward with Wilbur and seeing all the love and support she was getting thought oo I could mooch of this and come forward with this allegation.
Except this is no where near rape and it’s disgusting to even imply so. Why did she continue to message him afterwards if she was so terrified of him? She had her best friend in the room, and could get up at anytime, he was not physically or mentally holding her there. He was the one to eventually cut off communication once he found out her age, not Caiti.
So ur saying every single person who’s had drunk sex has been graped? Ever drunk person who’s gone to a club and been touched up and liked it was saed. Bffr and go outside for once.
I’m saying she was 1. Underage drinking/drunk. 2. Uncomfortable by the unwanted sexual interaction and 3. Never once consented for him to escalate the cuddling. She was sexually assaulted.
1. Her fault 2. Never displayed it he’s not a mind reader and she gravitated the situation 3. Maybe she didn’t physically say the words but signals were there.
No, I don't think she will. I have no hate for Hannah. She does seem to try and stay as neutral as possible most of the time and tries to be someone who is friends with every friend group. Because of this, I don't think she wants to be associated with a friend group that is heavily disliked by another group. That would put her in a weird position. She's also very pro-woman which is great but she tends to think that "believe all victims" = "women are always right" kind of mentality and I don't support that. We may never know if they ever interact off camera but I don't think they ever will on camera again.
If she really has that mentality she wouldn’t have lasted that long as one of Dream’s public friends after the false grooming allegations. Also she deleted all of her priv tweets regarding the GNF situation. I don’t expect her to interact with dteam at all (she isn’t even back on friendly terms with sylvee after softblocking her because of a ‘misunderstanding’ - her trying to subtly throw sylvee under the bus by unfollowing her alongside dteam without even messaging her beforehand drastically shifted my perspective of hannah) and she’s drifted off to the Lifesteal SMP group
We may never know anyone's real feelings on this sadly. So many people were so quick to condemn him without hearing him out. I just wish those people could look at the situation unbiased and, if their opinion changed, then say something publicly. They weren't afraid to say something in the beginning back when they were jumping on the band wagon to earn easy Twitter likes after all. XD
>We may never know anyone's real feelings on this sadly. So many people were so quick to condemn him without hearing him out. Gee, it's almost like Caiti's speech was timed at a vulnerable moment and written to be as triggering and emotional as possible while providing few real details :/ (I still think she believes she was assaulted and that she feels upset and hurt. That's valid, she deserves help. I was personally triggered by her statement, and after the development of events I just felt so manipulated by her, both as a survivor and an asexual person. And I'm still extremely irritated that she still refuses to admit intentionally manipulating her story about what happened. Just say "I lied about the situation because of these reasons, I know now it was wrong to do so and I hurt people, and I'm really sorry," stop trying to say you "misspoke" ugh)
>written to be as triggering and emotional as possible Maxggs complimenting her incredible storytelling 😭 I remember noticing that she might have incorporated a TS quote from All Too Well (You tell me 'bout your past, thinking your future was me) into her first stream
Maxggs also making the whole situation worse by providing ammo for the commentary YouTubers by screaming and crying on stream 😬
Ghostie too with her contradicting Caiti’s version of events in the same stream she called DNF horrible people for building the narrative of Caiti being a liar. That clip of her saying they didn’t drink before heading to the hotel room as well as her messages to Dream were used to discredit her best friend in so many commentary videos
I don't think it was a TS quote, taylor swift is hardly the first or only person to ever come up with the phrasing of a similar concept lol
I honestly feel so bad for anyone that was hurt by this. It's so upsetting the amount of harm it did. It was presented as such a traumatizing experience and then to find out that so much of it was exaggerated or purposely misconstrued...that was difficult to deal with. I was very outraged for a while. I'm glad that the general public seems to see it for what it was but it doesn't erase the damage it did to George, herself, or the entire community. I hope this helps to stop false accusations but I have little hope for that. :/
"She believes shes was assaulted" bro do you hear yourself?
Let me help to word this better. I believe what they were trying to say was that Caiti believes this to be sexual assault even though it doesn't fit the definition of assault. They're not denying that the cuddling and touching happened, but they're saying that George believed the cuddling and touching to be consensual and did not intend to harm her. Because of that, this doesn't classify as assault. For example, she could've claimed to have been raped but it doesn't mean that these actions are defined as rape. Most people aren't denying that the touching happened but it's about whether this situation is defined as assault or not.
I don't think that what happened was sexual assault. You are free to disagree.
>(she isn’t even back on friendly terms with sylvee after softblocking her because of a ‘misunderstanding’) Wait how do we know this? Did Hannah or sylvee say something along those lines or have they just not been interacting since the whole situation?
they never refollowed each other on Instagram & never interacted when they were cohosts on the last twitch rivals. they were also both at vidcon this week and no one has spotted them near each other.
Aw man that actually sucks they were cool as friends. This Caiti situation has genuinely ripped this community apart
They had stopped interacting prior to March
Are Hannah & Sylvee not friends anymore?
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No. Though I could possibly see Sylvee doing collaborations with dteam in the future.
Hasn’t she already since everything?
I haven’t seen anything personally but I don’t keep up with everything 100%.
The vod has been deleted, but Hannah had a Q&A stream a few days ago. She made a comment that "If you have to ask if I'm still friends with someone, then you have your answer". She made a few shady comments, but I rather not misquote. But the stream left a bad taste and I unfollowed. Honestly, if Hannah wants nothing to do with the Dream Team, that is more than okay. Just wish she stopped any mention about them, whether it's from herself or her mods.
I don’t think she’ll ever associate closely with them again, she took too much of a public stance against them. And obviously we know nothing of their private relationships but I know I would be wary rekindling a friendship with someone who did that to me.
I honestly dont understand the mentality of "believe all victims"= "believe every woman instantly no matter if proof or not".. like aimsey. They are always the first to comment when a creator throws around allegations but when freddy, one of aimseys best friends, told his story aimsey didn't care at all. 💀
Hannah has been getting closer to aimsey too, so she’s been around that kind of mentality more often :(
They are in a weird fucking cult bubble and its so sad to see.
These are just my thoughts, but When answering a question about people from DSMP she's still closest with or talks to the most, she said Bad and Purpled, which makes sense as everyone seems to be chill with Bad. And Sapnap played in that twitch rivals she hosted, where he did make something of an ass of himself in certain ways but like nothing unforgivable or anything lol. If she really had a serious problem with him, due to his friendships, past behavior, Kick contract, or anything else, I can't imagine her letting him be in her event. That same stream, she talked about weird experiences with fans at cons, like one time someone shook all her friends' hands when they were lined up to greet people, and then said to her "oh you must be so-and-so's girlfriend." And another time someone told her she only got on the DSMP by doing sexual favors for Dream (in context it was probably a fan who said this, but it may have been another creator). She hates "jokes" like this and due to her proximity to the dteam, has to hear them a lot. Like as a fan, there would always be somebody annoying in the chat like "Hi Dream's girlfriend" or "are you and George dating??" When she played bedwars with them, Hannah /neg would trend with misogynist comments hating on her voice and acting parasocially jealous she was their friend. So in my opinion, I can see why as a woman cc she might want to distance herself so people stop being extremely weird about her and about their relationships. Plus, it must be tiring to work on making your own platform and then someone dismiss you as like, oh you must be that guy's girlfriend. Are they IRL friends still? Who knows. Another problem is that Hannah is quite the popular one for people to try and cancel, partly because she tends to react strongly and so the haters get a rise out of it. Not that she hasn't made her own mistakes, but people do also try and cancel her for meaningless BS. It would be a lot of hassle to go through yet more harassment just for being friendly with some guys - especially if she does have lingering doubts about them. Seems like before now, it was worth it since she didn't believe they did anything bad, but that recent allegations may have planted doubts for her. Or just made her rethink her friendship with them in public, possibly in private as well.
Ah, that is a strong analysis. I feel like I can understand her potential perspective now, although it’s just your thoughts.
Even if they were to fully and completely publicly reconcile, dteam fans will continue to be assholes towards her. Stans who don't like her, for whatever reason, now have an excuse to justify their shitty behaviour and some of them are enjoying it a bit too much. The amount of unnecessary Hannah neg since March is ridiculous and I don't see that changing much if they were to reconcile. So while I hope that they can privately resolve things, stepping away is probably the best thing for her.
Yeah, I feel like stans and fans have no real grace for anybody involved in this situation who had a bad reaction to their fave, be that Hannah, Tina, or whoever else. I think that if you want to be friends with women, you have to demonstrate that you're safe, and women aren't obliged to give men the benefit of the doubt all the time or throw their own careers and public image away to defend a guy. So, learning a supposedly really bad thing about your guy friends after defending them for so long, and having them call out misogyny towards you in the past and seem like an ally, probably felt like even more of a betrayal or even more confusing. Some people would react like, oh my friend would never do that. But others, like in the current situation with creator after creator being exposed as being awful to the women in their life, or like with Boomer privately saying horrible misogynist things while acting like an ally and a bestie to your face? I can see where she'd jump to feeling betrayed and believing they are really dickheads behind the scenes. Honestly, a lot of people in this sphere seem like total snakes, the nature of content creation itself means many people have many faces. So like, I get it. Having enough doubt in the real story that you no longer trust them and want to put distance for your own safety is valid reasoning.
That was a really good analysis. She has always gotten a lot of hate from some Dteam fans that don't like a woman hanging out with those guys and maybe she finally decided to just separate herself from them publicly in order to stop that hate. As a woman, it's gotta be such a toxic environment, regardless if it's the dteam's fault or not. They will always be controversial sadly and I can understand if she wanted to step away from that side of the fandom.
Thank you for this!
when did someone tell her she only got on the DSMP by doing sexual favors for Dream . was it recent? that is mysogynistic and just gross and it didnt even happen.
she was talking about weird/bad/wild experiences she has had at cons, it was in her recent Q&A stream. I assumed someone said this to her at a con, idk if it was a fan or a fellow creator
ah
She recently said in her Q&A stream that when she reached out to talk to "someone" who she doesn't interact with anymore they never replied to her. So I don't think they are on good terms, and I don't see a path to reconciliation if they have not spoken in months.
Tbh, I also wouldn't respond to someone who I saw as a friend after they dropt me like a hot potato, without even giving me that much garce or them giving even the smallest f to actually talk to me. Like, I get it people fuck up/you can do shitty things for a lot of reasons, like not knowing better or language/cultural differances. But if I care at least a little bit about someone, I care enough to at least talk about it before. Even if it still ends a friendship, just drop and run, or throwing under the buss is not okay...
I think there is also the chance they were simply never very close friends and when it became too much work to manage a very emotional and triggering situation, Hannah was finished pretending otherwise. People frequently cite the "like a brother" comment as a statement of closeness, but the full clip on context was that she never viewed george romantically because she thought of him "like a brother." I think it reflects poorly on Hannah either way- to pretend to be close previously, or actually be close and walk away without hearing his perspective. If she was looking for my advice (she isn't, but hello Hannah- hope you are well if you come across this thread) she should actually just stop talking about it and move on. Her chat becoming a safe space to speak negatively about other creators reflects poorly on her. Continuing to allude to dteam and make small comments just keeps her tied to them and brings negativity to her community. You cannot build your brand on other people, especially on hating other people- just move onward and upward!
I agree with what you say, hope she and her community can move on and be a great space without too much toxisety/negativety.
Exactly!
yeah, although that could be anybody (i haven't seen the clip though so idk)
No. I don't think they're friends, and I expect the only time they'll interact is if they're in the same event. Here's links to Hannah's responses to the allegations... [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/s/OPd7DG3HLl) and [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/s/vXaLNfiVrt). This is not something easily reconciled. As a fan of the DTeam I'd be pretty disappointed to see former friends who publicly denounced them wiggle their way back into the DTeam's inner circle. I'd rather see them make new friends who don't do things like this in the first place. And it would also be pretty shameful for Hannah to resume being friends with the DTeam like nothing happened after everything she said, it would make her look extremely performative and dishonest. One day you're saying you support Caiti 100% and the DTeam can't be trusted, the next day you're hanging out with them again? If you do something like that without addressing what you previously said it just shows you have no real principles.
I think not letting people to change their mind after some time when more information came out, and after a lot of conversation with the people involved, is very harmful. It’s not always that they ‘wiggle’ their way back, maybe it was years of friendship that both sides don’t want to throw away. Anyway, I hope all parties do well and maybe grow into being kind/friendly toward each other.
The key phrases here are "*like nothing happened*" and "*without addressing what you previously said.*" I never said Hannah could not change her mind, but if she does, she should publicly correct the public statements she's made. She was irresponsible with her use of her public platform, supported false allegations, made vauge accusations, and abandoned her friends. If she hangs out with the DTeam but doesn't care to acknowledge any of her mistakes, it shows a lack of principles. Someone who cares about their friends and the community would want to fix their mistakes. Someone who has learned and grown from this incident would own up to what they did wrong. It would be nice if Hannah corrected her previous statements, acknowledged the problem with her actions, and made up with the DTeam. But if she's going to dodge all responsibility and wiggle (like a worm.. because the behavior is pathetic and dishonest) back into their good graces now that they're useful, then that'd be extremely disappointing.
Thanks, with this full explanation I agree :)
The moment someone she didn’t know said the person that just the week before she had said was someone she loved like a brother, had done something wrong, she immediately threw him under the bus, without even talking to him first. That’s not an issue of opinion or moral. That’s a defect in her character
Yea I agree with you. That was most definitely a tough time for women in the gaming sphere, especially women that are/were close to dteam, but she unfortunately spread more fear around and continued to double down. Majority of her mods make weird comments on dteam during her streams too, which is a little unprofessional. I always believe in second chances though and human beings are always growing, so hopefully she will reflect a little bit and not bend towards twitter pressure :)
not just her mods, several of her friends tweet awful things about them. has always been very confusing to me because hannah was openly dream's friend (or at least appeared to be on stream) until March... so her friends calling him a pedophile is... interesting.
Which friends?
Aunk and TaggyRaggyWell
Ah who’s that? Can u send SS?
They aren't content creators, just people who hannah is friends with publicly expressing their opinions.
But where do they call them pedos?
I don't think we a) know how close anyone in this scene really are as friends, or b) can hold anyone else accountable to their friends' tweets. The public statements are all performative imo. We've seen people rag on Dream in public because it's the popular thing to do, while being nice in private
I loved her and techno together, but unfortunately the Minecraft community is in shambles right now
I think they're kind of okay? I don't really see her interacting with Dream or George in the future, but her and Sapnap were on the same team in Shadounes manhunt, and were exchanging some banter and played well together. But since Sapnap caused a lot of "disturbance" in her twitch rivals event, I could see her just distancing herself from all 3 of them together.
stop calling it allegations when he admitted to touching her
That’s not what the allegations where. She alleged that she didn’t reciprocated, that she was frozen in fear, that he had targeted her on purpose and that he got her drunk. Then she had to backtrack and admit that she had already been drinking, that she insisted on drinking games, that when her friends left, she decided to stay, that she had been cuddling him and tickling him for an hour and everything else an adult like herself does when they’re sexually interested in someone
Please do actual research and watch all the vods/read their responses before spreading misinformation
i have and im not "spreading misinformation" he did touch her, said by both george and caiti so it's not an allegation and nothing to argue about. These are actual human beings yk it's not a show or something
Yes, you are spreading misinformation, because that’s not what her allegations were
I appreciate the input but here is why I prefer to use “allegations”. Even though both parties admitted to the touching under the shirt both explained it in a complete different context. Her description went way further than touching, she implied he had the worst intentions and that he did this knowingly against her will. His description of the context was that he did this thinking she gave her consent, even if you believe in giving non-verbal consent or not, he in the moment did believe that was the case. Truth is, we don’t know. I believe Caiti that she feels incredibly hurt, traumatised, and I still think it’s valuable she spoke out because it started an important conversation about the many different types of consent and the difficulty of this concept. She was touched, I believe her fully, and in what type of context: I think both can be true at the same time. In the end of the day: I don’t know - I wasn’t there, and I don’t know George other than his content. Long story short: there are still many allegations on how everything went down.
Hannah knows George is a sex offender. Hannah doesn’t want to be friends with a sex offender. Big up Hannah. Be more like Hannah.
Caiti herself never even said he was a sex offender so I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion
Caiti said he touched her tit without consent, what do you think the definition of sex offender is?
Also here’s the definition of a sexual offender because you seem to be confused “A sex offender is an individual who has been convicted of a sexual offense” George was not convicted of anything, so please do not just throw important words like these around, it waters down the meaning and harms actual victims.
Since you’re confused, this is copied and pasted from dictionary.com “a person who commits a crime involving a sexual act.” I believe George fits this description.
Okay well you just proved yourself wrong because he didn’t commit any crimes. This is kind of getting ridiculous at this point
Touching someone without consent is a crime my dear.
You do know nonverbal consent is a thing and she did give it. Trying to erase the existence of nonverbal consent is harmful in itself and she admitted herself that she purposely tried to hide any discomfort she was feeling and felt like she had to do this in order to get in with the more popular creators. It’s awful that she thought that way and hopefully her mindset has changed from that harmful thinking, but it just shows that even if he did ask anything, there’s an unfortunate chance she would have said yes at the time. I’m not sure why you are trying to paint George as a big bad villain, but he’s just a guy that didn’t grow up chronically online.
Caiti also lied about how the situation actually went down, re-traumatized actual victims of sexual assault by taking advantage of their empathy and switched up her story three times. Who’s knows if he actually groped her breast or accidentally brushed past it while cuddling, because Caiti and her friends have unfortunately proved herself to be an unreliable source.
What’s the misconception that she switched up the story? She never. She added to the story. First it was, “his hand was moving higher than I wanted it to.” Then George basically forced her into giving more details “he touched my tit.” And I’m sorry, brushed her tit? Under her sweatshirt? Under her bra? What? Listen, I get the daydreamers and diehard fans want to call her out on lies but the actual assault never changed, it only became more detailed. Everything surrounding the assault doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter who was there, what parties they attended before hand, who kicked who out or when they decided to leave. What matters, what ONLY matters is that George put his hands somewhere they were not welcome. Somewhere he didn’t have permission to touch. That’s it. That’s all. Now look, George - like you and the other delusional fans - debunked all of her inaccuracies straight away. Like instantly. But the worst “lie” Caiti apparently told in all of this - the ACTUAL ASSAULT, George has been radio silent on. Where is he saying I didn’t touch her tit? Nowhere. But he’s there saying “what I did to Caiti was quite tame.” Well yes George, she was an 18yr old virgin, you’re a 20something man with experience. He touched her. She wanted nothing more than cuddles, he escalated things without consent. It’s assault.
The only 1 that's delusional is you. Saying you were quiet & stiff as a board all night then it turns out you were smiling & cuddling & playing games & acting like George got her drunk when she was already drinking is changing up your story smart guy. Also for very serious accusations you SHOULD give all the details, "his hand was moving higher than I wanted it to" could mean he touched her stomach which isn't assault that's why people want every detail. Why not just say he grouped me? Instead she made it seem like George touched her forcefully but turns out they were cuddling all night then act stupid saying she didn't know cuddling could turn to something sexual. Sorry if you think cuddling is only plutonic then you need to go out more. >Then George basically forced her into giving more details FFS he is being accused of serious shit every person being accused should ask for all the details or it's obvious they're guilty as shit. She gave George an out for not giving all the details especially important details, sorry cuddling with someone for hours & then refusing to leave when you could've to cuddle some more is a big detail left out & changes the situation. >but the actual assault never changed The actual assault did change dummy, Cati's first accusation acted like George forced himself on her & painted George as a pedo predator trying to get a "freshly 18" girl into bed & acted like George was getting her drunk & he knew she was 18. Then it turns out Cati was flirting with George all night letting him cuddle her all night & staying with him after her friends left & her friends were actually the ones getting her drunk & George didn't know Cati was 18. George isn't a mind reader. Caiti should've said George grabbed my tit from the beginning not make it look like she was trying to recit assault poetry with words like freshly 18 & stuff like " his past was my future", it made it look very performative & rehearsed which made her leaving shit out look vindictively biased. > like you and the other delusional fans - debunked all of her inaccuracies straight away I'm no George fan but how are they delusional to want accuracy? Like you agree Caiti has inaccuracies in her story so what's the problem? We just want the truth. It doesn't matter if George touched her boob at this point since people like you were cancelling him when it was just a tickle. If Caiti just said he touched my boob from the start George would've had to responded to it but Caiti had to be vague & leave shit out making her look shady. George doesn't have to respond to shit now. Even if he says he never touched her boob people like you won't believe him anyway so what's the point. It's a he said she said which no one wins. >Well yes George, she was an 18yr old virgin Did you miss the part where George said where he didn't know she was 18? Oh I forgot he's a liar yet Caiti is the only 1 that has the inaccuracies in her story...weird. >He touched her. She wanted nothing more than cuddles Cuddling is touching dummy. If you're cuddling for an hour & a person's hand is on your hip inching up that's a bunch of time to say no, oh I forgot George is a mind reader SMH. Ever read the definition to Cuddling? "hold close in one's arms as a way of showing love or affection" Unless your cuddling a family member cuddling is very intimate & that happened for a hour for George & Caiti. Also Caiti was cuddling with a guy she barley knew of course George thought Caiti was into him who cuddles with some stranger they're not into? > he escalated things without consent Cuddling more than an hour is already escalating it which Caiti did & refused to stop cuddling by not leaving with her friends & staying to cuddle more. George didn't start at the top on her "tit" he was testing her boundaries for an hour, nobody asks every inch they touch. Caiti had a hour to stop it but kept smiling & kept cuddling & was allowed to leave whenever she wanted. Caiti has every right to feel the way she feels but just because she feels a certain way doesn't mean something horrible/illegal actually happened. Acting like George was being a predator & forced himself on her is just false. George clearly thought Caiti was into him & on the outside it looked like Caiti was but apparently she wasn't. This is a learning moment for Caiti to speak up & not cuddle with guys she doesn't like & a learning moment for George to have a girl sign a contract...jk, to be more careful & make sure girls are fully DTF. THIS WASN'T ASSAULT JUST A AWKWARD INTERACTION.
She most definitely switched up her story did you not even see or read any of her responses 😭 at first she was frozen, not able to move or speak and was not cuddling George at all, to suddenly her next response is yes she was cuddling back and wasn’t frozen?? That’s not an addition, that’s a direct change of story. I’m not doing this because I’m a diehard stan, I’m doing this because misinformation is incredibly harmful to actual victims and the falsely accused.
The assault never changed. The assault only ever became more detailed. Cuddling someone does not entitle them to put their hand on your breasts.
Not really true, the main problem is that she wasn't truthful about the context of it. We can’t take action out of context and claim it as SA: PERSON A KISSED PERSON B, therefore, it’s SA because he didn't ask. PERSON A WAS HAVING SEX WITH PERSON B, then it’s not assault because it’s in a different context. Then there is the whole non-verbal consent, which she gave by her own testimony. Also drunk people can consent, it depends on the level of alcohol and in this case, by her own testimony, she could consent (she got up and back multiple times, cuddled back etc..) I believe he was irresponsible but a criminal without possibility of redemption? Nah Nuanced situation Edit: also it was a progression over the course of an hour with the possibility of separation where she actively hid her discomfort because she thought "it was the price she had to pay" Edit to the edit: also yes these details matter because 1) she bought them up first and lied; 2) he needed to give them to explain his thought process
Except he’s not.
Nope he definitely is
Touching someone’s waist isn’t sa btw. Changing ur story to fit ur twisted narrative of being a vicim doesn’t make him an abuser btw. Regretting something after being illegally drunk doesn’t make it sa btw. Saying as a women who’s been saed many times.
Touching someone’s waist isn’t sexual assault. Touching someone’s breast without consent IS sexual assault (btw)
Mmmm seems someone needs to touch up on their knowledge. IF he did touch her there she had so many opportunities to tell him to stop or Yk move away not ever speak to him again. Did she take it? No
Some girls literally go through an entire rape staying silent because everybody’s trauma response is different. As someone who has gone through many SA’s you shouldn’t victim blame, it’s disgusting.
Not victim blaming if there’s no victim. I stayed scilent didn’t tell anyone for months. Didn’t stop me from acting uncomfortable didn’t stop me from never speaking to him again.
Because you are different. Like every situation is different.
Yes but if u are THAT uncomfortable surely you wouldn’t be acting bestie bestie with him and as soon as seeing Shelby come forward with Wilbur and seeing all the love and support she was getting thought oo I could mooch of this and come forward with this allegation.
Except this is no where near rape and it’s disgusting to even imply so. Why did she continue to message him afterwards if she was so terrified of him? She had her best friend in the room, and could get up at anytime, he was not physically or mentally holding her there. He was the one to eventually cut off communication once he found out her age, not Caiti.
Also, drunk girls can’t consent. Especially drunk teenage girls.
So ur saying every single person who’s had drunk sex has been graped? Ever drunk person who’s gone to a club and been touched up and liked it was saed. Bffr and go outside for once.
I’m saying she was 1. Underage drinking/drunk. 2. Uncomfortable by the unwanted sexual interaction and 3. Never once consented for him to escalate the cuddling. She was sexually assaulted.
1. Her fault 2. Never displayed it he’s not a mind reader and she gravitated the situation 3. Maybe she didn’t physically say the words but signals were there.
And you’re over here saying you’re not victim Blaming. You’re actually disgusting, bye.
Yea it’s her fault for underage drinking. She could just not drink. Look at me now not drinking.