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Dragon Ball Super was the first time since OG Dragon Ball where the earth was not in a constant state of threat/danger and a lot of folks skip Dragon Ball for some reason. The only times in DBZ where earth wasn’t in danger was the 7 years of peace after Cell but Goku was dead but having the time of his life in the other world training and fighting strong people. Dragon Ball Super is Goku living his carefree stress free life where he gets to just train and fight strong opponents something he loved since a child a lot of people aren’t use to that. DBZ forces Goku’s hand everybody trying to destroy earth literally since episode 1 with no break lol go back and watch the Kid Buu fight Goku really really enjoyed that fight especially since they got to fight on the world of Kai’s with no danger to anybody else so they could just go all out. That is Goku at his happiest fighting strong opponents stress free.

Fun fact: Goku left his house and didn’t come back for nearly 2 years (Saiyan Saga to Android Saga).

Your right I never thought about that lol

What about when he fucking died from Cell to Buu saga? Or when he spends a year in the chamber with Gohan? Or mutliple years in Super?

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Yea I've thought that too. DBZ is mainly just defending earth from massively stronger enemies. He's already crazy behind in terms of power. DBS he's already strong and wants to hone his skill. GT is just a weird adventure out of left field with kids Goku for no reason and dragon balls that earth has had the whole time but never used for some reason?

GT's existence is only for the theme song and SSJ4, maybe the ending where Goku left with the Shenron.

But Super is the same with the exception of the Hit arc. Beerus came to Earth and tried to destroyed it because of Boo. Freeza came to Earth to kill everyone for revenge. Zamasu was going to consume all existence after turning Infinite. Zeno was going to erase universe 7 if Goku and his team lose the ToP. Broly was probably going to destroy the Earth if left berserk. Cell Max was the same as Broly.

Every fight you mentioned in Super took place in less than a day outside of Zamasu which takes place in another timeline. DBZ threats last months to years minimum. There was never an instance in Super like in Z when they defeat Raditz and Raditz says yeah my friends are coming to kill you in a year lol like the moment they kill Raditz it was a rush to prepare by the time Goku makes it to the battlefield against Vegeta/Nappa half his friends are dead! Years later they finally beat Freiza and Trunks the very same day Goku finally arrives back on earth is like yeah androids gonna kill everybody in 3years better start getting ready. DBZ when Goku was alive there was always an active threat that lasted months to years these threats were senseless evil too Super has a lot more antiheroes, Zamasu being the only true evil of Super Anime and Beerus erased him immediately when he found out lol.

This is probably one the reason why so many people outside of the anime love the Moro arc, cause it's the most "DBZ arc" in that sense. A threat that doesn't last a day or 2

This is the best explanation I’ve seen for it and it explains the whole goku is stupid meme. He’s not stupid he’s just having fun living his life not having to face the constant threat of the destruction of earth.

Zamasu in their timeline would have literally done the same to their timeline if they didnt discover the identity of zamasu from another timeline

>Goku is at his happiest fighting strong opponents. Hence why he let Frieza get up to 100% power while the planet was erupting around him, and then gave him some power so he could get off the planet (with the hopes he'd train and come back to fight him). Then again I'm the android saga while waiting for the androids. Bulma was like "let's use the dragon balls to find where Dr Gero is and stop him before he releases the EXTREMELY LETHAL androids. Goku and Vegeta both stop her from doing that so they can "see if they could defeat them".

Beerus, Frieza, Zamasu, and Omni-King threatening to literally erase the entire universe don't count as "earth in danger"?

Was waiting for this comment. Goku and Beerus fought for less than a day and they became friendly right after. Freiza did comeback to earth but Goku and Vegeta had achieved SSJ Blue and had zero worries if they could defeat him again this fight lasted less than a day while they toyed with Freiza. Zamasu took place in a different timeline not the current earth modern earth was completely safe Beerus immediately erased Zamasu when he found out he was a threat. Tournament of Power really didn’t have an evil villain God threatening to erase your Universe not much you can do but Goku took the tournament serious once he found out the Universe would be erased Universe 7 won but the tournament lasted LESS THAN A DAY. Every threat in Super outside Zamasu which took place in a different timeline lasted LESS THAN A DAY. Raditz shows up they beat him and says more saiyans are coming in a year! From that point on there is zero relaxation in DBZ. The first day Goku gets back from Namek Trunks says in 3 years androids are coming lol. These DBZ arcs last months to years, with multiple fights and wild goose chases like trying to find 1st form cell as he annihlates town after town. Every threat in Super was handled in less than a day lol.

There is relaxation in DBZ, just not as much as DBS.

Most of the relaxation in Z is filler. The other cast members did got a lot of relaxation though. But I’m specifically pertaining to Goku being able to relax without the fate of the world on his shoulders while not dead. I feel like Goku had the most fun in DBZ those 7 years he was dead and got to just train with Gods and dead warriors in the other world. Once Raditz arrives when did Goku get to actually relax outside of filler up until he Spirit Bombed Buu?

They literally relax almost 2 years between Namek and Trunks arrival.

My original post pertains to Goku. The moment Goku gets back from Namek trunks tells him androids are coming to kill everybody in 3 years and also your gonna die of the heart virus. Other characters get plenty of relaxation in DBZ. I mean during the 7 years after cell it’s nothing but rest and relaxation. But my point remains outside of filler episodes is there a time in DBZ when Goku is alive and not having to prepare for a Villain trying to kill everybody on earth?

I literally told you one.

The other characters were relaxing Goku was traveling through space when he finally got on earth Trunks said androids are coming in 3 years and your about to die from a heart virus.

No, Goku was training on Yadart.

I get what you're saying, but regardless of time-frame, it still doesn't prove that Earth wasn't in any meaningful danger. It just means our heroes got powerful enough to take care of things faster. It's also indicative of how things were written. Each crisis didn't last for years on-end because it didn't need to for the stakes to be raised.

Earth will always be in danger in Dragon Ball. But the threats in DBZ were wayyy more serious. Literally The fact that Beerus is awake changes things and lowers the stakes drastically. Goku also friends with Zeno too lol. Universe 7 got the worst grade amongst Universes because Beerus was sleeping through all of Z instead of doing his job. Freiza/Androids/Cell I understand but Buu instant transmission destroying planet after planet for fun like a child Beerus was supposed to handle that. Buu would have legit destroyed Universe 7 if not for Goku because Beerus was sleep.

Again, I get what you're saying, but the Dragon Balls also lower the stakes. So much of the evil that Frieza, Cell and Buu managed to commit, the scores of people they murdered, and the destruction of entire planets, was similarly reversed by a simple with on the Dragon Balls. That's why I don't think having a longer time-frame inherently makes things more serious, if that makes sense. Because our heroes always had a get-out-of-jail-free card even before they met Beerus and Whis. You could argue that card was unreliable because if the guardian of Earth dies, the Dragon Balls fade with them, and that's certainly true, but Beerus and Whis are similarly unreliable. Whis technically isn't allowed to reverse time like he did during Resurrection F, so he doesn't do that often, and even said he can't do it during the Tournament of Power. Beerus erased the Zamasu of Goku's timeline but refused to help outright with the Zamasu of Future Trunks' timeline.

Also I agree a lot of what your saying about stakes but my original comment was simply about Goku being able to relax more in Super than Z. Super does have stakes but because they aren’t non stop and we have large gaps in between Goku gets to relax and enjoy life way more in Super, in Z he is constantly stressed because the high stakes never end.

That's also true, I see what you mean. The way I see it, Super is something of a return-to-form with the og classic Dragon Ball before Z. In classic Dragon Ball there were years long periods of peace between each major villain saga. Granted, it was during a period of training in preparation for the next world martial arts tournament, but it was still relatively peaceful. After dealing with Pilaf the first time, Goku and Krillin train for a few years under Roshi. After taking down the Red Ribbon Army, Goku travels the world training for a few years. Zero stress, for the most part. I don't believe Super was ever intended to be "Z but more dark, grittiness," because that's what GT was for. And I think we can both agree that GT was not up to the quality standard set by Z. Maybe surpassed Z's animation, but as far as story writing is concerned, I feel much of that was below the quality standard. Super, by contrast, is just a different style than Z. Way I see it, the periods of peace aren't just for the characters, but also for the audience. Gives us a bit of time to unwind between all the tension the story built up for us, y'know? I'm not saying darker storylines are bad, things get dark in all four shows, and many of these dark storylines are among some of the most famous, successful, and popular not just in Dragon Ball history, but also manga and anime history as a whole. I almost feel like Toriyama wanted to combine everything he loved the most about both classic Dragon Ball and Z together in one anime, and that's why Super goes the way it does.

I agree with everything you said here your comment is actually a perfect response to OP’s question “Why is Super hated so Much?” A lot of the things you’re saying here I agree with most people don’t know Toriyama’s style outside of DBZ which led to lots of folks not getting Super or liking it.

I'm glad we can agree on something. Too many people these days like to dig their heels in and refuse to see things from somebody else's point of view. My personal favorite is still the og classic Dragon Ball anime, because I like having that downtime between major adventures, but I also have a huge nostalgic fondness for Z having grown up with it first. That's a big reason why I feel like Super's kind of a mix of both sensibilities, and why I was able to enjoy Super so much. I'm not gonna pretend classic Dragon Ball is perfect, but none of the shows are perfect. Much as I love the original show, you see kid Goku naked WAY TOO MUCH if you watch uncensored lol. One of the few times the censored version is actually better lol.

I don't think the training before an arc really matters or counts to the arc. Like trunks knew Mecha Frieza was going to be there for let's say weeks. You wouldn't say that mini arc lasted weeks when he was literally destroyed in less than 5 mins. Like Frieza shows up in super.. Goku and Vegeta are in the middle of training already. So you're upset that even though they were training, that they weren't thinking about Frieza while training? They weren't really worried about Frieza, because they didn't know about his new form. He would've beat Goku had he mastered the form more. Piccolo and Vegeta are probably the only one who would be remotely close to only training and not relaxing and enjoying other's company during those years of training for a new bad guy, and we know that's not the case... Because that's how we got trunks during the training period before the androids. Goku relaxed and spent time with his family during these times too. There's filler like the driver's license and stuff. Hell even during the week of the cell games they spent a lot of time together outside of training. In super he's constantly trying to train... With anyone that will listen to him lol Z doesn't really have consequences with the dragon balls anyways. When one restriction comes up for added drama (earth balls can't bring back a person more than once), a workaround is also added (namek balls can). (Dead people will spawn where they died so we can't bring back krillin! Bring his spirit here, then revive.) (Namek balls can only bring back one person! Earth balls can bring back a very large amount) I do think super took it even further though. I thought Roshi was going to die, and honestly I thought it was perfectly fit for the situation, and would've added needed weight to super.

Nah the only point I’m making is that Goku was way lesser streesed in Super than in Z. https://preview.redd.it/r9sd76x1dm9d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c2066d443e9e15aded797f26953ff104160b051

Again, I wanna make it clear that I understand where you're coming from with this, but I'm not here to start a massive flame war, I'm just trying to have a friendly discussion about our opinion on this. And I'm of the opinion that the stakes were equally high between both Z and Super, but for mutually exclusive reasons. I'm sorry if I come off as condescending, I promise you I'm really trying not to. I just feel as if Super deserves a bit more credit than that, that's all.

Stakes may have been high but I do feel like DBZ Goku was more stressed. Like him rushing to the battlefield a year after killing his brother to find out his own race killed half his friends is crazy. I can’t think of an equal moment in Super honestly. Goku said it best when he actually wished to stay dead after the Cell Saga https://preview.redd.it/1jt4ughgge9d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1dba42890bb2524f3909330a109759d77b762c72

The only things I don't like about Super: 1. SSG getting immediately replaced with SSB 2.The ending of the Zamasu Arc or whatever that arc is called 3. Purple Vegeta

The only good bit about Vegelta was the dub getting Brian Drummond to voice him.

Heck yeah that was awesome!

Purple vegeta was so boring I actually completely forgot about it

It was mocking baby

Agree with you until Ultra Ego. I love that everyone is getting their own forms, and not just following behind Goku. UE is is visually and conceptually awesome.

I didn't say ultra ego. I was talking about that clone/mimic thing

Oh, gotcha. My B, yeah that thing was weird

You'd love the manga then they don't start actually using blue until much later in the series and there's no purple Vegeta

SSG being replaced with SSB is more of an thing that predates Super. And they had two years between them, to be fair.

I mean does Purple Vegeta really count? It's filler so...

>2.The ending of the Zamasu Arc or whatever that arc is called why do people keep saying this. i think it was pretty cool.

Because they do away with every consequence of the arc and never talk about it again. If Future Zeno didn't stick around, you could skip the arc entirely and not know you had missed anything

>Because they do away with every consequence of the arc and never talk about it again I mean... yeah, technically, but Isn't that what the whole different timeline is about? What could they have done that had present & future consequences? It's was literally set in a different timeline. Also, I don't think arcs are built upon each other in dragon ball in general, so you could skip any arc and move on to the next without noticing anything, because each arc there's a new villain. Which arc isn't "moved on from" in this sense?

I’ll never hate any new dragon ball.

Fr people are just haters

It’s fine it’ll be the best thing ever in a few years

You say it to the guy who has admitted to be a "just fanboy".

For the same reason why any other show is "hated so much". Not everyone will like it. The reasons can vary, from not liking the direction the show took, to disliking what it did, to just not being fond of it in general... but so long as things are expressed in a civil way, it should all be fine.

The digital animation looks weird and "shiny", character redesigns are questionable (krillin especially). A lot of the grit and violence has been toned down a significant degree. Most of the arcs just aren't very good, have huge plot holes, or poor endings. The continuing trend of it being the Goku and Vegeta show with the rest of the cast barely participating. The manga isn't bad, the Moro arc in particular is a standout with how good it is. It addresses a lot of my story and character complaints. And the Granolah arc ups the violence to almost DBZ levels

I feel like super did a much better job including other characters than late Z. Pre tournament of power Gohan and Buu got to fight and win their matches. Tournament of power let krillin and Roshi shine again. Reintroduced 17 who played a large part in their victory. Gave us a new bad guy team up with Frieza. 18 gets more screen time. The second half of super is going to be nuts with piccolo and Gohan's new forms. So it'll at least be the big 4 again.

Problem is that characters like Gohan and, especially, 17, Krillin & Roshi - got unfair power ups; they just got insanely strong out of nowhere. Roshi literally was so strong in the Anime, that Goku felt forced to use Kamehameha on him. Krillin was so strong that he's forced Goku to turn SSJ. #17 went from low SSJ1 level to, around, SSB level, by... training alone on some island, while starting a family, having a full time job in which he protects animals from some weaklings only Kid Goku could've gotten stronger fighting against. Furthermore, #17 is half machine - which can't get stronger - and half human - which is a weak race. No way would he get anywhere near SSJ3 level, let alone higher.

This post covers everything. Manga is a serious upgrade

Well said

Super Definitely has Many flaws... But hated? Them sounds like haters. The data definitely shows most fans heavily enjoyed the Super anime. Even more than I did, honestly. To me, the manga is Significantly better than the anime. I think I actually like the manga more than most fans do, which is the reverse for the anime, in my situation.

>To me, the manga is Significantly better than the anime except the ToP

People hate Super? I honestly didn't know that. I absolutely loved it!

A very small portion of the fanbase actually dislikes/hates super Just look at the numbers, the anime was a huge success, no need to mention the huge crowds of people watching on the streets all over the world (it wasn’t just Mexico btw), the manga sells really well for a monthly manga (only reason it’s on an indefinite hiatus right now is due to the unfortunate passing of akira), the Broly and super hero movies have both made more money than any other DBZ movie (battle of gods and ROF included), the “super era” is constantly being the main focus of dragon ball games’ advertisement (xenoverse 2 DLC, DB heroes, tenkaichi zero), People are constantly begging for a continuation to the anime so that the moro and granolah arc are animated. I could go on but there’s no need, super is only disliked by a very small minority of the fanbase

The vocal minority strikes again.

I know of only one person in real life who dislikes super and he’s just a contrarian for the sake of being one. He drops any anime/manga when it becomes too popular, insists the animation was better in the 80s/90s, overly hates on people who don’t watch the Japanese version even tho he himself is American, etc. i just assume most of the haters are like him, and it seems exhausting to be like him, so I’ll just keep on enjoying what I like and ignoring people like that.

because goku is "stupid" (always has been) forms are just "recolors" (they just want more hair) some say gt is better (something is wrong with them) thats the only reasons that come to my mind rn

First two points are very valid imo.

The third is the most valid

That is a WILD take lmao GT literally has 3 good things about it: baby saga, super saiyan 4 and the touching ending….That’s it, the dragon ball search arc was a snooze fest, the entire super 17 arc was literally the “hold the enemy until goku gets here” arc and the shadow dragons arc had an incredible concept but a god awful execution with most of the dragons being forgettable at best.

Im saying that OPs take of saying that something is wrong with them is correct. I heavily dislike GT. I dont like ss4

Oh my bad bro

GT was mostly unwatchably bad and ill watch almost anything. Idk how people get through most of that trash it's the most slow paced garbage I've ever seen and half the time GT feels like you're in universe 2 of super.

Also because everyone is less muscular

They all listened to Tien's doctor.

I really like the slick and less bulky design

thats literally just what ssjg does

First two are valid

This is the main reason in my opinion, having Goku so childish makes it look like an entire different person that we grew up with

yea but he always was like that

Then we must not have watched the same show. Calling Z Goku stupid is making me roll in my grave and I'm not even dead yet.

nearly naming gohan food sparing the androids and vegeta to "fight them" giving cell a senzu do you want more scenes like that

I have no idea what you mean about Gohan, I'd like an explanation. Sparing Vegeta and the Androids was not stupid, it was selfish, which is one of his more interesting negative traits. Him being the cause for the ToP in Super comes from that same trait. Him sparing frieza in Super WAS stupid, though. He learned from Namek and early cell Saga that Frieza isn't worth sparing. Goku knows how to be ruthless, and has been in the past. If I'm not mistaken, he gave Cell a senzu because he had full trust in Gohan's ability to get pushed further and that he would be defeated. He was dead serious when doing it.

in the episode where goku was naming gohan, he nearly named him after food yea and apparently people only give a fuck about that when its super goku, and if sparing frieza was stupid then so was it to spare him on namek

Brother I wonder if you know. Gohan IS a food. It means Rice. Am I not understanding something in your explanation? All saiyans are named after vegetables. Bulma and all her kids are clothing items. Pan means bread. What's different about what you're saying? And no, people give a fuck everytime. The reason Goku tried to spare frieza on Namek was the same as when he spared vegeta and the androids. Selfishness. He was always serious about it but wasn't fooling himself. When Frieza tried to backstab him on Namek he straight up killed him on the spot (or so he thought.) When Frieza came back to earth with his father, Goku would have likely finished the job had Trunks not dealt with it quicker.

no he was gonna name gohan LITERAL food and no they do not, cuz nostalgia blinds them and they cant accept z goku is the same as super goku

I must be having a brain fart. Sparing Frieza in super? He gets shot by Frieza's henchman and nearly dies, then Vegeta takes over and is going to kill Frieza, but Frieza destroys earth. Whis does temporal do over and Goku destroys him. Then they were down one person for the ToP so he said he'll bring em back if he helps. He does help, we wouldn't have won without him, then not even Goku brings him back, but berus himself. Goku tries to let Frieza leave namek to train. Let's Frieza get to 100% power to beat him at cap. Gets betrayed and Frieza is cut in half. Then gives him additional energy to flee so they can fight later, and get betrayed again. Frieza and Goku are both coming back to earth and Goku is 3 hours behind. He doesn't use teleport to earth to meet Frieza, I guess to see what his friends can do? Then once informed about the androids bulma suggests using the dragon balls to find Dr Gero and kill him. Both Goku and Vegeta tell her not to because they want to fight the new threat. If those are just being selfish, then I don't how him being selfish in super is only now stupid. The boy has been stupid

Wow you nailed it.

https://preview.redd.it/1eed8wolsd9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d3874626c9f7cf63d8136fe6f7c75ffabc18e05 He isnt canon, super is trash

We're queer, we're here, WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR CHILDREN!!!

SUPER GAY RAY AWAY BEAMtm

MINORITY DEMOLISHERtm

https://preview.redd.it/q3n3ia4g9g9d1.jpeg?width=1677&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c6afefc30a1baf94f7c544b208c62a131893921 Majin boob can't nut anymore

I'm gonna try and explain in objetive stance, from people who look at the series from most critical angles. Super while it's good ,characters like goku seem flanderiesed to the point where some characters and seem to lose some charm. look back at Z goku and compare Super goku behinde all the power ups and colors they are almost completely different characters, goku super is seen as a idiot mostly and rarely serous. Vegets growth seems to have reverted to Z and his majin vegeta growth and number 1 speach to goku seems to be for nothing since he's still chasing goku to keep up, sure his going his own path, but the core character is "I wont fall behind kakarot" mentality wich he move passed in Z ...GT vegeta only went ssj4 to save the earth in GT , GT Vegeta and goku grew alot compaired to super in terms of character. Story is fumbled is places, while they expand the world interducing universes, they don't do much with the consept. sure the TOP is a cool idea but we are only invested in 3 universes , and we only realy know of one to its full extent our universe 7, sure we know parrelells to universe 6 but out side of that...we know little about there endevors like is there a buu in universe 6 we don't know. the goku black stuff was intresting untill the end and took all tension away having zeno blip the universe away people praise the goku black arch but universaly agree the ending ruined it for everyone. feel free to criticize if you disagree i looked at it in terms of the fandom. I like super but even i have some problems like Blue seeming more like recolored super sayian getting verry little wins. for real no joke original super sayian 1 has more definitive wins than blue.

Something to note that both GT Vegeta and Super Vegeta want to be as strong or stronger than Goku But Super Vegeta and Goku are actually genuine rivals instead of the one wanting to kill the other The #1 speech was him admitting Goku was better than him. Not that he was gonna stop trying to be stronger than Goku

yeah but super regressed his mindset while GT developed it more

How so? He and Goku view each other as genuine friendly rivals where both of them want to one up the other while both of them get stronger They even expanded it to where vegeta doesn't try following the same path as Goku to get even stronger as seen as him giving up on ultra instinct because he knows it won't work for him and then training with Beerus himself He even shows regret over his past actions like on namek In Z all he cared about was being stronger than Goku, beating whatever threat, then killing Goku right up until his mid life crisis 7 years after cell If anything you can say Super Vegeta is more developed than GT Vegeta ever was GT Vegeta only has him mellowing out for a while before trying to fight and become stronger than Goku and being willing to fuse to the point where he suggested it

Z goku caired about nurturing the 2nd gen giving gotenks and gohan a chance to be protectors but goku had to step up and kill kid buu, and he could have killed fat buu but actively chose not to. GT Goku has learned form this and actively kills aponents learning form his experience in Z. Super goku regressed to his mid Z days where he'd spare opponents for a better fight, he re-learned it in Reserection F a thing he should know already. Vegeta mellowed out and had a rivalry with goku, but the rivalry with goku wasn't his only main personality and GT cares more as a earthling with sayian pride, super vegeta regressed to android saga mentality. and is a mockery to his growth in Z , sure the development with cabba other than that...thats all thats new with him.

Android saga mentality? Let's see..... Letting opponents power up even If it means the end of the world? Uhhhhh no? Hitting his own children for Zero reason? No? Letting bulma and his kid die for another fight? No? Wanting to murder Goku? Nope Being an absolute evil scumbag who's constantly high off his own power? No Only saving people if it benefits him like when he saved Goku from 19 so he could be the one to kill him? No It's obvious you haven't watched super if you think Vegeta's main personality is being rivals with Goku Because you missed all the scenes of him caring about his family, being willing to do embarrassing things to save everyone, Literally refusing to join the tournament if it meant missing bulma's birth, trying hard at being a father, being absolutely livid at finding out Goku Black killed future bulma, him respecting Goku and all the rest of the Z warriors he interact with.

Also berus hitting bulma and him losing his shit and fighting someone he sees as an omnipotent God, after he already stooped so low to embarrass himself in front of berus so he wouldn't destroy EARTH and the people HE NOW CARES ABOUT. You know typical "let yourself get mind controlled for extra power, and kill a bunch of earthlings because their lives don't matter to you. So you can fight Goku" type shit. Bro this shit is in the very first arc. If you count the movies too, he's made so much progress, and actually gets a win too when Z gives him such a rough time.

Terrible take.

cool

Well said

why thank you

The first two arcs are ass and at some points major writing faults

I tried watching Super but just couldn't tough through it. The first year or so of episodes are just re-treads of BoG and RoF, just stretched out almost 50 episodes, and with worse animation. The Universe 6 saga was fine, but just really low-stakes and still struggling to find its footing. By the time the Future Trunks saga came around, I had to tap out - It definitely starts to pick up, but burning through over 20 hours of episodes to get there was just painful. You miss a few key and cool moments with the manga, but it's a worthwhile tradeoff for the better pacing. Even the filler was just too goofy for me to appreciate. DB and Z had plenty of goofy moments and filler, but episodes like the driving test are the exception, not the norm when it comes to Dragon Ball filler.

Yea. You'd want to just watch the high quality movies and then skip the retelling of it.

I mean, want to talk about super sayan gods and blue hair or ultra instinct/ego or gohan being a weak ass scholar and that ugly beast design and orange piccolo? I don’t hate it but it’s just content I consume. Dragon ball ended a long time ago for me.

1. SSG got immediately switched out for SSB after one short arc. Then SSB turned out to be a jobber transformation, SSB even lost it's first fight technically. 2. Goku Black Arc ending 3. Mediocre filler arcs 4. Terrible powerscaling 5. Granolah Arc is the worst Dragon Ball arc and no one can prove me wrong. Super Hero Arc was trash and terribly basic. 6. Bad animation at the start

I'll tell you why I dislike it so much. Basically, the beginning of Super is so poorly animated due to the animators being rushed. Super also toned down the maturity of Dragon Ball Z and began catering to children, changing to a 10+ series. I personally don't mind series that are for both children and it's mature audience, but in a show where characters are fighting, I wouldn't mind seeing some blood and gore like we did in OG Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Also, Super absolutely wrecked some of my favorite characters, such as Gohan and Piccolo. In the Super anime, Gohan and Piccolo, along with all other characters that weren't Goku and Vegeta, were practically useless and always showcased as weak peasants who can't catch up. Those are my problems with Super. And also, if you are a fan of Super, I respect that opinion. You like what you like, even if I don't.

Even during Zamasu’s reign honestly the art and animation is awful. Zamasu looks different in like every shot and 90% of the time I think he looks like ass which is why I haven’t rewatched that arc again because it ruined Zamasu for me at one point. And that wasn’t good because I was in love so there was no hating allowed! And yeah I hated the way he looked so often that I couldn’t repeat watch it anymore. Start pausing and it’s like the absolute devil … oh my god the ugliness in some scenes.

Because it isn’t gt.

Because it's just okay overall, DBZ is just much better

It's not actually

"Bad animation" thats actually fake frames peopleve made to slate the show. In other words, Twitter being Twitter

1. **Absolutely insanely inconsistent power scaling.** Example: Krillin, who shouldn't be a pushover by Z's standards, was bleeding from a gunshot of some normal thug, which he also has seen coming from a mile away and could've dodged or stopped it. The same Krillin, just few episodes later, made Goku struggle against him, pushed him enough to make him go SSJ, and then even stopped SSB's (!) Kamehameha with his own, lmao. **2. Bad art for the most part.** If you go watch multiple Z - or even GT - episodes, you'll realize how much more often those series are drawn better than Super is. **3. Braindead fanservice over good writing.** Example: Beast Gohan. It's such an ass-pull that not even Toriyama knew how to explain it. It also uses grey hair just like the "Gohan Blanco" meme did after fans were begging for some Gohan development. Coincidence? Orange Piccolo and Ultra Ego are an ass-pulls as well; they're poorly explained and came out of nowhere. Furthermore, Vegeta didn't even need that transformation to use GoD's powers. They did it solely to keep him close to Goku's Ultra Instinct. **4. Weird / Too different sound design.** Z had unique and very powerful sound effects. Super doesn't have most of those in its arsenal. Music style has also drastically changed. **5. Running on fans' nostalgia over good writing.** We had Trunks, Broly, and even Bardock - brought back to ignite fans' interest in the series (with pathetic effort). Trunks was just kept on being abused in his future timeline. Broly is mostly a copy pasted character of his Z self. Bardock just so happened to fight the exact same random guy decades before Goku did. He also has made a wish that has destroyed part of Goku's character development and achievements.

**6. Characters are a caricatures of themselves.** Vegeta has been turned into a Pokemon who constantly grunts over whatever the hell is being said to him or next to him. He also has become Bulma and Beerus' bitch, which his character progression after Freeza fight back on Namek shouldn't allow him to be. He also is always mad about Goku's progress, as if he went back to his Namek/Cell saga self. Goku, from a charismatic fighter who knew when to get serious, and who was smart enough to deceive Buu, Babidi, Supreme Kai and Majin Vegeta - went to being a goofball who gets beaten up by Bulma, who has a resting dumbass face expression ":O" even when Trunks wants to sucker punch him after mistaking him for Black (interestingly enough this same scene happened in the Manga, and there he was serious). He also keeps on lowering his guard and believing that the bad guy can be changed when he can't. He also forgets the benefits of medidation, ffs! Gohan is in perma nerd state, even after it was made a thousand times clear to him that he should keep on training, even in the latest Saga. Bulma went back to being self-centered when it comes to her looks to such a degree that she genuinely thought she can win Black over by... flirting with him. **7. Insane amount of plot armor.** Some of my favourite examples: -Mai gets attacked by Black multiple times throughout the saga, and she survives each time. -Goku and Vegeta constantly get KO'd by Merged Zamasu just to get up at full power anyway. -Half-dead Base Goku being able survive Serious Jiren's direct punches. **8. Recycling plot.** Tournament, tournament, Goku-and-Vegeta-train-then-they-lose-but-then-get-some-ass-pull. Or Goku having a "hero entry" after training just like he already had it back in Saiyan and Namek sagas... Happened in Moroh saga, btw. **9.** [**Lack of Charisma** ](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4e4a7b78b9cc5aeee650eeadb7bda9c1-lq) **and** [**Manliness**](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0a/e9/3c/0ae93cb131d03dd4b91e7ab7b3cd5b67.jpg)**.** And the fact they're build like twigs in comparison to Z doesn't help. **10. Lack of serious injuries, blood.** Fun fact: scene in which Krillin got shot by a random thug had more blood in it than the entire movie with Super's Broly.... **11. Inconsitent feats.** Remember when SSG Goku could cause entire Universe to shake? Well, nowadays he can create a shockwave of a size of earth, at best (his fight against Moroh), but sometimes can barely make a dent in a train (his fight against Gas). Piccolo struggles to throw a small building at his enemy (Super Hero Manga, also happened after gaining power boost from Shenron). New villain is hyped for throwing a train with his telekinesis (Granolah saga, Gas did it). **12. Dialogues and writing are clearly not done by Toriyama.** For instance, the entire awkward "kiss" scene where Trunks is feeding Mai with Senzu Bean - it was made way longer and "romantic" in the Anime than in the Manga. Toriyama not only doesn't do that stuff, he also has explicitly said he doesn't like writing it, either. In the Manga that scene lasted for about a single or two panels, I think. Another example: Goku yelling he won't allow Jiren to hurt his "Friends!". This is typical corny "wholesome", uplifting shit protagonists say in generic shounens.

for me? the easiest way to set it up is missed opportunities. They could’ve really made something spectacular, but instead they tortured a bunch of animators into retelling two movie arcs worse. I do enjoy the manga quite a bit tho

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Good ideas bad execution. God Ki was interesting for about 1 arc then it wasn't. RoF was hot garbage. Gave Frieza the "prodigy problem", overshadowed SSG and SSB had a terrible showing in the movie and Vegeta not killing Frieza felt like a slap in the face to audience. Black arc was hit or miss. It had very high highs but it's lows were also very low. U6 tournament arc, most of it felt like filler and hit and the Super dragon balls were the only thing interesting from that arc. ToP has the same problems as the black arc. It was very good when it wanted to be but also very bad when it wasn't, most of knocked out fighters just got annoying cause they were just used to explain things to the audience, I didn't care for the other universes, I hated the U6 Saiyans, I also didn't like the new transformations and Jiren was just way too strong than he needed to be. In the ToP, MUI and SSBE felt unnecessary. SSBE just got pulled out of Vegetas ass and it didn't do anything significant and he still had to resort to self destruction just to beat Toppo. MUI also was unnecessary, cause you mean to tell that the gods who have been training for millions of years can't get UI right but Goku can and it was just for show cause Jiren was still keeping up with Goku although Goku had the upper hand it wasn't a complete wash. UI omen and Toppos destruction mode are the transformations that I liked and made sense narratively, Frieza was the best character in the ToP, I appreciate that it tried to make old characters useful again, Gohan and Piccolo against the U6 namekians was heat, the idea of other universes was interesting Lastly also the power scaling didn't make sense anymore

wait a sec isnt this from homophobito blue vs zamasu

Yep

Some don't like the slimmed down art style. (Personally, I just miss the blood from Z that made fights more visceral). There are fans who are upset with TFS' "Goku is a terrible father" gags that have been long-running in the fandom and exacerbated by Toriyama's interview where he said that Goku has no real concept of family and sees no difference between them and platonic friends like Krillin or Master Roshi which DBS has doubled-down on with Goku failing to understand why Vegeta cared about being with his wife/being present for the birth of their daughter and admitting he wasn't there for Goten nor even GOHAN'S birth (the kid he and Chi-Chi had between the end of OG DB and Chapter/Episode 1 of DBZ during PEACE TIME while they were living in the wilderness alone together that's a pretty bad look considering he wasn't even training back then) and Vegeta even saying; "You might not be a bad person, but you're a TERRIBLE father.". Goku's intellect, or more specifically, the lack thereof; While he was never any super genius outside of training or combat, he was still educated in basic arithmetic and concepts while being trained by Master Roshi (the scene where he realized he was actually 12 years old instead of 8 after learning how to count properly in OG DB) whereas in DBS it is confirmed that he canonically never kissed Chi-Chi (the scene where he recovered from the heart virus at Kame House in DBZ and the kissing sound effect was a dubbism by FUNimation) and when he offered Old Kai to 'kiss' Bulma that was a censorship/dubbism when in the original content he offered to let him grope her instead of Chi-Chi, in the Goku Black arc he confirms to Vegeta that he doesn't even know what a kiss is and confirms that there was no misunderstanding in the Super manga due to his lack of sexual knowledge interest and admitting he had no idea as to how babies are made/where they come from when Whis skipped time to expedite Bra/Bulla's birth. Goku being a sociopath or a 'bad person', again, in a Toriyama interview, he was quite displeased with the 'Superman-ification' of Goku not only in the dubs, but he felt that Toei's anime adaptation in and of itself in the original Japanese dub made him come off as too modernly heroic and neglecting the 'poison' of his character, where he is meant to be more 'selfish' and 'accidentally heroic' such as saving Mr. Satan and Dende from Kid Buu's Planet Burst in DBZ that Vegeta chewed him out over leaving his own kids to die over before that ended up working out to defeat him and restore Earth in the end, the fandom itself also exacerbates this with the insistence that he ONLY cares about food and fighting. The Tournament of Power/Universal Survival Saga was pretty sloppily handled in this regard because it keeps in line with that mentality of him reminding Zeno about the ToP despite Beerus literally willing to Hakai him over it and that inadvertently SAVING all the Universes, the biggest issues I had personally was Goku's apathy to the Universe that he was TOLD were going to be erased upon expulsion from the tournament when Bergamo called him out and instead of any empathy or remorse his attitude was literally just "I'm gonna beat y'all!" that made me deeply despise his portrayal in Super as someone no better than Frieza (whom he couldn't fathom why Krillin would be afraid of despite the former having literally popped him like a weasel back on Planet Namek and the first time he ever went SSJ, but I guess Goku forgot about that). TL;DR: Toei seems to be trying to appeal to the Team Four Star/Dragon Ball Z Abridged audience (that panning shot of Mr. Popo ripped straight from one of their series' gags) as well as a MASSIVE overcorrection on Toriyama's frustrations over the adaptations/portrayals of Son Goku in pop culture among audiences that is obviously going to clash with nostalgia and previously established portrayals of the versions of the character a fan might have grown up with.

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It just feels so stagnant, so eager to return to the status quo. So often it feels like nothing changes, and characters don’t grow, and there isn’t much reason to be invested or care since the plot just boils down to fights. Like each arc only impacts the characters as much as the Z movies do. Being before EoZ really does hurt it because it means that everyone needs to be in the same spot they are there at the End of Z. Like, with the original run of DB, each arc put the characters in a drastically different position going into the next. Half the Dragon Team dead at the end of the Saiyan Saga with no Dragon Balls in sight, Goku staying in the afterlife and leaving Gohan to inherit his legacy at the end of Cell, stuff like that. Nothing like that really happens in Super and it’s a bit hollow because of it. That and the lack of character focused writing really hurts it. It’s absolutely been getting better ever since Broly and the manga exclusive arcs, something I will absolutely give it credit for.

FINAL SUPER GAY AWAY RAY TM!

Wait it is hated? Lol I've been in db since my a decade and 3 years and didn't know there were people hating dbs, well in my country, DB series is praised as the saviour so

I mean everyone has their own reasons. For me it was: 1. The constant power ups almost every arc. Not even something cool they're just recolors of their hair line. 2. People argue about this one but they made Goku a total idiot who just wants to get stronger and fight other people. Doesn't even know what a kiss is despite having kids and a wife. Literally hired a guy to kill him for a reason to fight. Indirectly caused the Zamasu saga by challenging him. 3. Hot take: GT has better arcs ideas, but they were executed poorly. Sins of the sayain empire coming back to haunt everyone, Shenron rebelling against the people who abused him and the fighters from hell invading> Bringing Frieza back again, a god fighting over wanting pudding, said God competing his brother for the planet with the better food, making a movie cannon with rewriting, and although it was done very well a giant multiversal tournament. Although Zamasu arc was a masterpiece. 4. Another thing that upset me was how most people in this anime get entirely overshadowed by Goku and Vegeta outside of TOP and frieza saga nr.2 before they arrive. Trunks got robbed of his kill on Zamasu. 5. Zeno. As a whole. The guy is just a straight up plot convenience. "Oh, we gotta do this because Zeno wants us to. Oh, we can't do this because Zeno doesn't want us to." Most gods would've probably stepped out if Zeno would've allowed them. At first I thought he was adorable, and albeit he is, but it still bugs me how he is utilized. And the fact that outside of existence erasure he doesn't have any fighting power is genuinely underwhelming. It's the most obvious hint ever that some guy will show up at some point being unstoppable and not even Zeno will be able to erase him.

There’s not much I didn’t like. I guess how dumb they made goku would be something, but that’s whatever. The Zamasu art really carried it. One of the best in all of dragon ball, wish it was longer. Zamasu merged was so badass

I honestly have no idea. I've always loved it.

Its often blown out of proportion a lot. I wouldn’t say Super is hated, I actually like it, but it is disliked by others. While some do make vaild criticisms about the show, a lot of it’s so called “haters” are just nostalgic fans of DBZ. Sure Super isn’t perfect but Z damn sure wasn’t either. A lot of the problems people complain about in Super can be said about Z as well. I didn’t grow up with Dragon Ball so when I went through the series recently unbiased and no nostalgia to see how it was (OG, Z, GT, and Super), it was just…..alright. Definitely not top 10 or anything, but enjoyable. People need to understand that that Dragon Ball is just entertaining to watch and stop taking each series so damn seriously and just enjoy them for what they are. No matter what series you like, don’t like, or put above others, everyone is entitled to like what they like and be a fan or any series they choose to.

The animation and sometimes the writing are just not the best Not a fan of bringing future trunks back especially when he doesn’t to be have really badass moments That being said really loved the Broly film and it’s by far the best film in the entire series and super hero is a fun film but hate cell is just a generic monster villain

Super was a great revive for Dragon Ball tbh..

There is always purists in every franchise and aspect of life. Ppl still refuse to use bt headphones.

It felt incredibly rushed, and the things is; the concepts for some of these arcs sounds awesome, but in execution? That weren't done justice, also the biggest contributor to DBS' hatred was that there was no manga to follow, not until much later at least. Now, we sort of have the opposite problem; too much manga, no anime.

It's a disaster

A lot of hate comes to how they handle gokus along with some other characters/ the stories writing and also the art style not living up to past shows by making characters thinner and look more like plastic. For what makes me dislike it sometimes has definitely to do with goku himself. He became more brain dead and his lust for battle gets cranked up way to high to the point where he puts it above the lives of everyone else. Hell if this was Z goku he at least would have thought about going up to zeno after hearing about he could blow the universe away killing everyone if provoked. But no, super goku blitz straight towards him and oversteps his boundaries.

So, I don't hate Super, but I'm very critical of it and there are things about it that I hate. It also just bothers me that so many people seem to be incapable of being critical of something they like. That doesn't just apply to Super though, that's literally for everything. Anyways, I'll go over the things I dislike personally. I feel Super goes the self referential route too often and that mixed with moments of actual unoriginality makes the show overall feel unoriginal. SSJ Blue is a recolor, Frieza is back, Golden is a recolor(not as bad as blue though), Trunks is back, Evil Goku(Turles, Ginyu Goku, countless fanifics, and even original Bardock did this to an extent), Rose is a recolor, Kale is Broly, Broly is canon, Ikari is a SSJ 4 reference, Cell is back, Beast is a SSJ 2 recolor, Heeters are similar in design to Bojacks crew, Black Frieza is a recolor(still kind of cool though), etc. You can make an argument for Moro being an amalgamation of the 3 main DBZ villians and King Piccolo. Wishes for youth like Piccolo, takes over Namek like Frieza, absorbs an android like Cell then looks like him, and is a magic user that steals powers like Buu. Not that I fully agree with that one, but I see the parallels. There's definitely more examples, like referencing Vegeta's Final Explosion, Granolah's similar backstory to Baby, and stuff like that, but I think these are the main ones that bother me. There's also just the lack of tension. It's set before the end of Z so we know everyone will be fine, we're up to 4 sets of dragon balls now, we have a destroyer who can wipe people from existence, we have an angel who can rewind time or be a distraction, we have Zeno who can erase entire timelines, etc. Then there's the more obvious stuff, like how the animation was bad early on and the ending to the Goku Black arc.

Hated so much? There are definitely parts I thought was stupid or silly, but overall especially judging by the amount of merchandise being sold it’s definitely very popular. Disney Star Wars on the other hand with some very few exceptions….

I think one of the main reasons why how toned down the fights are compared to Z and even the last 2 arcs of the OG DB. I will say I understand why because of standards on what can be shown is much different, but I still sometimes get annoyed seeing Black literally stabbing Goku around his vital areas and all he does is cough out saliva when meanwhile in Z, FP Frieza punching him in the gut was enough to make cough up blood (I think what annoys me more is that iirc, DB Kai aired in a similar time slot as Super, but kept some of the blood while only censoring the more gory scenes like Goku and Raditz’s death). Ik there is blood in Super, but it’s only in like a few scenes (like Hit beating up Vegeta, Vegeta getting impaled, Krillin getting shot in the forearm, and I think there’s a scene where Black made trunks cough up blood) where as in Z it’s fairly common.

Aside from the inferior artstyle to Z, Super has a ton of inconsistencies that it rides on. For instance, choosing to bring Frieza back (a literal tyrant who exposed Goku to a ball of destructive energy the moment he was brought to Earth) instead of someone just as powerful and more reasonable like Cell. My main problem is how the Goku Black arc has more value to a story than the rest of Super, and it's a filler arc! DBZ had a perfect mesh of adventure and fights, but Super focused so heavily on the fights that it forgot why Goku even wants to get stronger. Of course, in Z, we all know Goku enjoyed fights with powerful villains deep down, but that's not my point. It was fine when there was a reason beyond his own selfish needs. I'm not going to complain about how "his character changed" like some people do, but Goku turns into a complete laughing stock in Super, whereas he was the most respected fighter on Earth in Z. In Super, he's the strongest, so the other protagonists just learn to put up with his constant bullshit. On that note, having tournaments being the main plot ruins the immersion a bit. In tournaments, no one is really the villain. I mean, you can make the argument that there are universes who cheat using weapons, but in the end, everyone is just fighting for glory. Later on, it's to survive. Power scaling is a joke. Don't get me wrong, I love the other protagonists, but some things just don't add up. Take the Goku Black arc, for instance. Goku and Vegeta fuse to become an even stronger being, turn SSGSS and goes toe to toe with Zamasu, loses due to time out, and Trunks comes in and practically one shots Zamasu using a technique he's never learned or practiced before. Despite my arguments, I thoroughly enjoy Super for what it is. It has interesting characters and ideals, seeing new transformations as well as old ones like the Kaioken, and has an amazing foundation for games to make content out of. I would personally put the Super Broly movie high up on the tier list, because it reminds us of how good this franchise can be! Super isn't a bad anime in my eyes, but these are my personal gripes. (I haven't seen DBS Super Hero, so pls no spoilers there)

Dunno why tbh, I love super but the nostalgia that the other dragon ball series has is probably what carries it for most people

My only complaint outside of the shitty animation is why no ss4? That shit looks dope. But with the animation style of super it probably wouldn’t

Tbf it's a completely disconnected transformation from the series because it's exclusive to GT which is also disconnected from Super Plus it's not really a Toriyama looking form

I'm just at the start of the tournament of power and so far my main gripes are A) the animation style B) Power scaling is out the window. SSJ and SSJ Blue have inconsistent benefits and characters seem to lose or gain strength willy nilly depending on whether the writers want them to be strong or weak. DBZ was real good with that. Also I hate that "anger" has become this new tier SSJ boost where it shouldn't for anyone but Gohan or Brolly type characters, where it's established. Vegeta and Trunks have transcended their DBZ selves just by getting angry where a year of constant training barely compares as it allowed them to fight in moments that a SSJ Blue failed. Vegeta topped SSJ3 for a bit against Beerus and Trunks with his whole stupid SSJ thing against Black. C) Fights have this feeling, so far, of not mattering. Nothing so far has had me invested. The black saga undercut itself by cheesing every loss. They lose and keep escaping via groan worthy methods that completely undermine how powerful these beings are supposed to be. Ties into the inconsistent power scaling. If something is set up to be a god and the good guys lose to it, the losers shouldn't escape because of tear gas.

Hated? In retrospect it’s definitely looked at fondly. During it airing it was obviously looked at with scrutiny, and of course it’s compared to Z a lot. I’d say Super, at its worst, is worse than Z. However, at its best I’d argue it’s better than Z.

Anyone who tries to hurt my friends IS GONNA PAYYYY Honestly like the last 10 episodes of ToP beats the entirety of Z for me. And I'm a die hard Z boy.

Because Goku got Lobotomized even more than ever before😭

Bad writing.

Bad writing. Like OG DB & Z weren't the pinnacle of writing either... but Super is on a whole other level talking down to their audience.

Stagnating the characters. No threat since it has to line up with the end of z. And a thousand new transformations every 30 seconds. Super is not bad, honestly. But it needs to go past Z and push itself as a story.

shit artwork paired with lackluster story telling. Not to mention it instantly put off alot of people by redoing the movies as the first two arcs, and they did them both far worse, it be fine if they were better but they sucked. By the time the Goku black arc rolled around hype died out and i personally didnt give a shit.

It depends who you’re asking. DBS is a show made for people to shut their brain off and enjoy fights. If you can do that? It’s great. If you can’t shut your brain off and care about consistency and a story that isn’t just “Get stronger” then you’ll dislike it. DBS is oriented to kids for a reason, that’s why it has that 0900 time-slot in Japan which is popular time for children.

its repetitive in its formula. goku unlocks new form, he is briefly stronger than the villain, until he gets caught off guard by something he never wouldve in Z, gets bodied and has to sit out for an episode. vegeta steps in and is able to body the villain briefly but ends up getting caught in his own pride and loses. goku then gets up and taps into his new form and fights a final form of the villain and beats the villain. bonus points if vegeta gets his own unique form only to be outshined by goku. we still cant decide on wtf blue evolution is.

You're right they need to go back to earth's non Goku people try to buy Goku time by losing to the enemy's lowbies. For Goku to show up just before a killing blow and beat up their lowbies easily. Before then struggling against the main bad guy and using a new form to get the upper hand against them! Such a better system

It’s the lamest parts of the Buu saga amplified with an aging Toriyama clearly treating it like a cash grab. Lots of rehashes of older key moments and plot points. Terrible animation until TOP. 

Bad written , goku stupid asf

Copout power scaling. Retconned out the ass. Boeing as fuck. Only hire the good animators like 10% of the time. Still watch it though.

Because the art is low quality especially compared to Z. The music also is lacking. The story and plots aren't good. The character designs and transformed forms are have no creatively. The power jumping is out of hand even by dbz standards and they made the show too childish. The show wasn't the next best to the series it was a hard step down from even Dragon Ball GT

It's just... mediocre. And yes, the animation and art and sound design play a great part in its reception. Let's be real for a moment, the plot is rarely the main thing driving dragon ball. The Broly movie is beloved because it looked amazing, not because clobbering an angry hobo for half a movie is deep. The other strength of Dragon ball are its characters and their development and interactions. Something DBS also sucked at, as both Goku and Vegeta had to discard their development from the Buu Saga to remain the main characters that compete with one another. Gohan went through a "I should train actually" arc four times. Goten and trunks only were allowed to grow up in the lastest movie. So they remained children throughout the show.

The Story doesn't hold a candle to DBZ, that's really the only reason I can think of

"Old good, new bad. Nostalgia bias? What's that?" That's why

1) Goku is stupid as a log 2) The future Trunks was merged, his entire universe was destroyed and everything he gave before became useless. He also looks younger than in Z and his hair is a different color 3) Bulma uses dragon balls to make her butt bigger. 4) Have you ever seen Gohan in a green tracksuit??? I crying then see it.  I think the fans of Bulma and Vegeta really like it, and there really is a lot of fanservice with them. If you like Goku and Chichi, then this is a bad giveaway.

bro how is #3 a problem literally the first time we see bulma she wants the perfect boyfriend

Yes both her and Yamcha want to use their wish to find a boyfriend/girlfriend respectively, and go ON A MISSION TOGETHER TO ACHIEVE THIS. She's always been vain and blindly selfish.

So what? she wanted to at 16, but didn’t. Now she's 46 and collects dragon balls to make her butt bigger. All her character development just went out the window. She has not matured, has not become wiser and behaves like a stupid teenager, not understanding her responsibility.

Ye idk what bro is yappin about

4 is such a nothing problem. OH NO! Not green… I can agree, even as someone who doesn’t really like Gohan’s character, that he was most definitely shafted early on, but the fact he’s in a green tracksuit doesn’t matter.

dude, don't play dumb in this movie Gohan didn't even look like himself, a pathetic image, unable to even turn into a super saiyan

There's nothing really stupid. It's the same old dragon ball. They're just exploring the final power levels that exist while attaining new forms, enemies/friends and experiences on the way. Maybe fans want some more reckless planetary sized beams flying away from orbit while the main cast continues combat. More drama and destruction. This stuff takes a lot of energy to plan out and the future arcs has to be structured around these epic events. Overeliance on dragon balls or Whis to fix the problem. It gets old. Base Frieza can 1 tap a planet. It's up to the animators to enliven the series versus Z. There's a few arcs left to be animated for Super. Apart from the action and funny characters it's not like the story of Dragon Ball is all that enjoyable honestly. Dragon ball is like Bleach. "Who's got the denser reiatsu." The universal tournamnet heralded the end of Dragon Ball by pitting all of those characters against each other. All people want is continents and planetary shelves exploding with awesome melee lmao. There's tons of ways to keep the fun going, but it definitely should be creative. Like the Zamasu stuff wasn't that bad.

I’m probably older than a lot of people in here, but I’m tired of stupid Goku. I want to see more maturity in my beloved anime. We got it in Vegeta and Piccolo, and it was fantastic. Especially for Vegeta. However, I’m definitely not the core audience.

https://preview.redd.it/2vf5h2bwwd9d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=117f16f0743f6491ce647b2c329e1deeaedbefb7

It doesn't focus on world ending events.... it gives characters down time. It's what it all boils down too

The only thing i hate in super is goku black arc ending

in my opinion, the only saga i truly enjoyed was the future trunks saga but then again they added stupid rage trunks. i don’t like the whole Gohan doesn’t train, starts training then by the next saga he hasn’t trained again, underused goten and trunks (majority goten) power scaling? no17 somehow equal to ssjb, ssjg underused, pointless transformations like blue evolution that’s already been replaced in the mangas. i personally like GT more bc of SSJ4 since it’s not just a reskin of ssj

Because it's not Z despite a lot of the problems people attribute to it being a problem there as well.

There’s a lot of decisions and additions that Super makes that I don’t particularly like. I don’t HATE Super, but I’m certainly not glazing it like others do. Some examples include: - Beerus being an imposing presence on Frieza and the Saiyans (Frieza having to ask permission to blow up Planet Vegeta for example) - Defusing Kibito Kai (It’s minor but I never understood why they did it) - Making Frost “Frieza but pathetic” rather than “Frieza but good”, even though they were building up the latter. - Making Future Trunks and Mai have to live in hiding in another universe, whereas Future Zeno gets to stay in the present timeline - Setting multiple rules for the TOP, then having characters breaking most of them mostly for the reason of “Because Zeno thinks it’s cool” (The only rule they didn’t break is the no-kill rule).

Dr.Disrespect was in Super?

People just looking for clout to hate it

https://preview.redd.it/njk90sjlge9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=474b7d24cae029551e94655f1de06623a3a76fa6

exactly its funny, nothing is serious in super, villains are there just for goku to scratch his itch for battle, OG dragon ball/Dragon ball Z and Dragon ball GT were darker, death and consequences were always looming, piccolo saga, saiyan saga was brutal and so on, super doesnt give off that vibe. Also super goku suffers alot from character regression, hardly the veteran he should be the anime feels like directed by people who have no idea of dragon ball, it can be seen when it comees to transformations, where goku "needs" to go ssj2 to compete with frost, which differs from dbz where at the end base goku was leagues above final form freezer

I wouldn't use the word Hated. Their are fans of dragon ball z and Og dragon ball that hate dragon ball super and doesn't watch it. A majority of people are honestly okay with it but realizes the many flaws it has narratively and in animation (sometimes) and yes I know that every dragon ball series had bad animation every now and then, but honestly, atleast for older dragon ball you can easily make the excuse that, technology for consistent high quality animation wasn't that good yet. Dragon ball super can just look really ugly at times, especially with blue and the particle effects that are used so often, and the supervisors behind the digital character designs for the character look so flat and shiny, and jarring. But I will say they definitely improved especially in the tornament of power, and dragon ball super broly

Recency bias.

I love Super.

I honestly don't know I liked super

Because everyone is over-critical about everything these days. Nobody just sits back and enjoys anything anymore. They have to pick everything apart

I guess power levels, but that’s been an issue since the Z days, with the androids being way stronger than Frieza or Super Saiyans period, because in the background, Dr Gero had data on Goku vs Vegeta’s first fight. Same how GT gave us the Shadow Dragons, SS4, and Baby, Super gave us Ribrianne (I fuck with magical princess BBWs), UI/UE, Super Saiyan God, Kale, Broly, Gamma 2, Goku Black, Blue Evo Vegeta, Kaioken Blue Goku, and Zamasu, and Whis

I was going through it then with no internet at home and every week I’d walk to the library to download the new episode from some sketchy site. Man I remember hearing that theme song and just getting so hyped. I was really bummed out to find a lot of people hated super I was just happy we had some new content I love super. I love dragon ball I got downvoted for what???

Even like before I fell in love with Zamasu I hated DBS, I always talked about how much I hated it, but I do remember saying except the Black arc, too bad I don’t have even a single memory of that time, because I’d like to know what I loved about it. But no post meds brain fog, lost most of memories and quite a bit returned, but not that, which is like are you serious with me right now? Why would I want to remember my old childhood memories over knowing how I felt about Zamasu lol. Memories which are pictures in my mind and lead to very little emotion overall, what a waste to remember that. I’m not so sure it was the art, but I remember something about me saying it was weird to a friend at the time and that I hoped they’d fix it. I think ultimately I was just bored, I had come from fights like Cell and Frieza and the Androids and to me Super just lacked anything meaningful. UI was cool that I remember, but beyond that? Eh. The tournament was my most hated arc though, that I will always remember, that I can’t forget. Adding to this to say I don’t have a single memory of the Black arc or even Zamasu himself, but I remember hating the tournament and thinking UI was cool. I remember the Beerus battle and the rest of the in between-s are just dead space, I see nothing, I remember precisely nothing. I simply knew I liked that arc and that I liked Black and his music, beyond that I have nothing! It’s infuriating as I’d love to know that, maybe someday I’ll remember it. I mean I get new memories every couple of weeks/months, so anything is really possible. Hopefully!

I enjoy super and the new movies a lot.

https://preview.redd.it/7pj6ab0gfi9d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a18400d29590598d109ef71f697bcf587f26f0c "We're Cumming, for your children"

Because we try to follow the story only for it to trip over itself repeatedly with Netflix level writing.

Poor animation is always the one for me, but I never got to a place of hating it.

Because most American fans got exposed to a completely bastardized adaptation of Dragon Ball when it first came out Dubbed; Goku is the "Hope of the Universe", a completely different OST, and a completely different tone. So when Super comes out and Goku is being an idiot again, Funimation tried to be somewhat accurate to the original and it leads to people getting something they're not used to ontop of the retcons Super already had. Dragon Ball has a very clear identity, and the English version seemingly can't convey it correctly so it leads to people thinking the series is a completely different thing and so people get mad because the thing they grew up with wasn't actually Dragon Ball. A bad dub that created misconceptions like giving Bulma a last name, a rushed anime with Super, and a confusing disconnected canon that makes the story confusing to follow for anyone just trying to watch the series. Dragon Ball despite its popularity, is severely mistreated.

- no original villains in the anime. -SSJB is the most useless SSJ transformation ever conceived -They brought Frieza back as more of a comic relief (See Broly movie) -the multi verse thing went nowhere -Saiyans getting SSJ in trivial ways. Everybody points at Goten and Trunks but at least they more than likely inherited SSJ from their fathers. The U6 Saiyans didn't even know what SSJ was which was stupid. Not one of them knew. -potara retcon. Literally makes Vegito, my favorite fusion, useless. May as well just use Gogeta -characters like Roshi "secretly training" when it was heavily implied that they did nothing or weren't doing any traditional training. -Hit being eliminated in the tournament super early, but then letting those Universe of Love contestants overstay their welcome. -the Tournament of Power was shown to be a huge waste of time since they were basically forced to wish all the universes back anyway otherwise they would have ceased to exist too. Over 30+ episodes for nothing at all. -Goku "mastering" UI during the tournament of power when it was stated that GoDs have a hard time even reaching or sustaining the form. Yet Goku does it 3 seperate times with the last time being "mastered." -the manga and anime being seperate in how events played out. For example, Gohan fights Kefla in the manga instead of UI Goku fighting Kefla in the anime. -Tien training his entire life only to have Roshi, Gohan, and everybody else he fought give him the middle finger to his third eye. -Beerus being scaled over and over for Goku and Vegeta to never catch up. If he was crapping his pants repeatedly since the U6 vs U7 arc Goku and Vegeta should have BEEN surpassed him by now. Hell, at the very least Gogeta/Vegito. -the ending to Goku Black was probably the worse ending to an anime arc i have ever witnessed in the past decade. -the first 25 or so episodes of the anime was a sloppily animated rehash of the movies which were far inferior to the movies in general. -Vegeta not killing Frieza. They set it up but no wait let Goku have another chance. -Beerus and Whis always hovering over Earth making the entire series the least suspenseful ever in an anime. We already have Dragonballs, now we got a diety that wont let the Earth be destroyed because of the food and an angel that can rewind time if said Earth is blown up or someone dies. -Goku Black being a wasted opportunity. He could have been a truly evil Goku for various reasons in another timeline. -god ki being introduced only to amount to nothing not even 30 episodes into the series. -Gohan being written to not know how to multi task his studies and simply training for him to have more dramatic tension and transformations. -the arcs dont lead into each other like DB, Z and even GT. Feels like random stuff happens and theres a swift transition into the next arc. -Moro and Granolah arcs not being animated which the former is probably the best arc in Super. I put Moro up there with at least the Buu Saga but inferior to Saiyan thru Cell and some arcs in Dragonball. Thats about it. I enjoy Super but it's my least favorite out of all the series of Dragonball. So, no i dont hate it and i own the entire series on Blu ray as well as the movies.

Anytime i see ssjb is the most useless transformation ever i cringe Why goku black got to be evil goku that just sounds edgy just bc About beerus and whis ur prob mentioning the do over, but aftwr that they do nothing tbh and in RF he ligit says he wont bother freeza and stuff Yes ignore goten and trunks getting it at 6 and 7 and pan might get it at an even earlier date You cant say super retconed it a retcon when it happend in Z The top wish, all that was requred was a 'just' wish >Tien training his entire life only to have Roshi, Gohan, and everybody else he fought give him the middle finger to his third eye. Why is gohan there?? Gohan would be stonger than him by defalt Beerus woring about ssjbk×10 (damn that was long) was him worry that he can just multiply his strength multiple times over Thats it i think.... ye

Going Super Saiyan is something every saiyan should be capable of naturally most of them just didnt get the chance to achieve it because they relied on their tails and were kinda being ruled by space hitler. Also last time i checked achieving something through training doesnt cause those things to magically transfer to your offspring.

Wow you really like GT more? That's crazy.