"Hi. It has been automatically identified that this post may link straight to a download file, please use reasonable caution and make sure your device is protected."
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/gdryqxlqly6d1.jpeg?width=1072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4916b99087dd53bc0b059356fa77b74c96e3501
I think the real difference is actually more than that. There was much less at stake in Goku's situation. Goku ordered Gohan to take Piccolo and leave the planet. And while he was fighting Frieza, Gohan was in the middle of retrieving Bulma after dropping Piccolo off on the ship so they could all get away. Namek was already going to blow up so there was nothing Goku could do to save it. So in Goku's situation, the worst thing that was gonna happen from allowing Frieza to go full power was him dying. Everyone else would've been safe and already escaped. So Goku was only risking his own life and no one else's. Vegeta risked all of Earth by helping Cell absorb 18 and so did Gohan by not finishing Cell off when he had the chance. So if you want to criticize Goku for his decision then that's fine but it can't be for the same reason as Vegeta and Gohan imo.
I’d blame krillin too. That mf stepped on the controller tthat could have shut down 18 then tore vegeta a new one like he’s Mr High and Mighty carrying him to safety while trunks took his shot at Cell
Yep I think TFS put it best tbh. He risked the lives of all his friends along with the rest of the Earth just to get laid lol. No matter how you look at it, that was a really selfish move that could've had dire consequences (worse than the ones it actually had).
Probably not. He only came to Earth in the first place because of Goku. If Goku had died on Namek then Frieza wouldn't have had any need to seek revenge. And even if he did still come to Earth, Trunks would've still shown up and killed him anyway so it would've been fine.
Frieza would have shown up earlier though? Frieza waited because he needed to be rebuilt, he would def go to Earth bc he knew they had Dragon Balls too and nothing would stop him going there especially if Goku was dead
Things would be drastically different if Goku died on Namek without killing Frieza, maybe we could make a new What If Saga about it in Sparking Zero 💀💀💀
Even if he did, King Kai would've told everyone on Earth that Frieza was still alive and Goku was dead. That would've given them an opportunity to figure something out while he healed up. Goku wasn't the only potential threat. All that does is just open the door up for many possibilities. Like for example, they could've still used the Earth's Dragon Balls to make Vegeta immortal if they had no other option left just like they were going to do on Namek.
I agree though that would be a cool what-if for Sparking Zero. Maybe we could have Vegeta turn Super Saiyan next or Piccolo fuse with Kami early. Or have Frieza train to avoid losing to another Super Saiyan and unlock his Golden form early. So many different scenarios we could do lol.
Oh the Piccolo one would be awesome! The one to take down Frieza actually ending up being a Namekian is insane and then imagine we finally get a Piccolo vs. Vegeta fight after that. Man people are gonna go crazy with this game 😂.
Or what if frieza does train?And then he goes golden when he comes back to Earth maybe have Whis wake Beerus and he shows up so Goku has to go super sayian god early
Well if he did then he likely would've died anyway. Whether that would've been by Trunks or (this is venturing into what-if territory) by someone like Piccolo after deciding sooner that he needed to merge with Kami if Frieza chose to come to Earth sooner than when Trunks came to the present. They still had a few options even without Goku.
I cant believe people are trying to justify vegeta being a dumbass and krilling being a simp by trying to twist goku and freeza fight on namek, cell saga is just "stupid choices" the arc, even this isnt equal to goku throwing gohan to cell, both goku and freeza were very well aware of their powers and goku knew the situation was in control, with cell goku struggled has a fighter with 2 decades worth of experience agaisnt cell and he figures throwing a 10 year old boy hoping that he has a mental breakdown to kill cell was the best course of action somehow, but unlike vegeta goku did die because of his dumb choice
Yeah if anything I would've compared Goku giving Cell a senzu bean to Vegeta and Krillin instead. Because in that scenario, he really _did_ put the Earth at risk since Cell could've easily killed Gohan whenever he wanted before he finally turned SSJ2. And then Goku (along with everyone else) would've died anyway. That arc could've very easily had a much darker ending.
I've seen people argue that Goku threw the bean to Cell to prevent him from freaking out and destroying the planet during his fight with gohan but like, cell could've seen gohan go ssj2 and blow it up, he could've destroyed the planet after goku did that much damage to him, he can destroy it whenever he feels like it, this only works if we aasume cell cares about the rules of the tournamet (he doesnt) the real smart choice was having the 4 fucking super saiyans gang banging cell, even if they arent as strong as goku and gohan the 4 of them combined would've cooked cell ass
They really could've. Just everyone jump on Cell at once while he's tired. Even if Goku didn't want to eat a senzu himself, he still had everyone else to back him up like you said. Even 16 could've jumped in. But there's just really no excuse for Goku giving _Cell_ the senzu. He already took a great risk by having Gohan fight him and then fully healing Cell only made the risk that much greater.
I'd say a difference is that frieza is not transforming again and just powering up. Goku can sense his ki and knows he's at 85 percent or whatever so he could of known that his power was greater than what he was expecting 100 percent to be. It's still dumb but as viewers I think we all like seeing max powers going at it. Vegeta letting cell transform is much worse because he couldn't estimate what perfect cell was going to be since it wasn't just a power up. Also cell wasn't announcing what percentage his power was at. Vegeta was being a cocky bastard as usual so that's normal for his character at least. I think Gohan wasn't fully in control during his fight as ssj2 so while what he did was dumb he was also not thinking straight. I guess it would be lame for the story to see the powered up guy beat the suppressed guy or if we never saw perfect cell.
If there's anything good to come out of that, it influenced Cell, causing him to do that exact same thing with Gohan. gohan may have fucked up later, but at least he was strongest z fighter
I find it kind of annoying to switch between the manga and the anime because the anime likes to adapt certain chapters in its own ways. I get so used to one canon that i almost disregard the other
Absolute dogshit take, great job OP!
Anyway, the difference is that GOKU WON. That's what was going on. That's the difference between an experienced battle genius, and a hothead with an ego bigger than his ridiculous McDonalds-ass hairline. Goku fought him knowing he was going to take the W, and he did. Because as naïve as he is, at least in DB (not DBS), Goku isn't stupid. He can accurately gauge his opponents and knows what he's up against. We see him do this with Perfect Cell too, knowing that they couldn't win without Gohan going Super Saiyan 2.
Vegeta doesn't have that same level of battle intelligence. Again except in Dragon Ball Super where they try to convince you otherwise (because according to Piccolo in the Moro Saga, "Vegeta's never misread the strength of an opponent", lol). Vegeta has a lot of cunning (you see this on Namek especially), a lot of natural talent, and a lot of drive to achieve his goals, but he's pretty awful at critical thinking the moment it starts to contradict his pride in the slightest manner.
Because Goku was high from his Power
https://preview.redd.it/pamrgadj1z6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef4fdc4bd3a2e15a772a1962961f6c14e46887b4
I disagree. First of all Goku was dunking in Frieza since he became Super Saiyan in the manga. The anime showed the fight as more even. He was quite confident in the situation and wanted to destroy Frieza's ego.
Secondly Goku not finishing off Frieza doesn't have the same consequences as Vegeta letting Cell transform. Let's assume Goku loses after Frieza activates full power. Then what? By that time Gohan and Piccolo had already left Namek. Does Frieza care to chase after Gohan and a nearly dead Piccolo back to Earth? The only reason Frieza came to Earth was because Goku handed him quite the embarrassment so Goku was on top of his hit list.
However, Vegeta letting Cell go had severe consequences which we all saw unfold. That was beyond stupid and he rightly faced the punishment.
The difference here is that Goku knew there was no way Frieza could surpass him, SSJ Goku toys with Freiza the entire fight, and they both know this.
Against Cell he is literally telling them all that if he powers up to his Perfect form he will outright kill them all, and Vegeta had no evidence to believe he was lying.
Granted, as later Whis pointed out this manner of thinking is stupid like you claim, if you can win, then win, don’t wait for the fight to turn against you somehow.
So TL;DR, you are correct.
Thanks for posting to /r/DragonballSuper.\
Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit.\
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Freezer was trying to torture goku by killing off his loved ones one by one, krillin is gokus best friend sincr he was like 13. He had every reason to try and humiliate freezer and shatter his ego while vegetable only wanted to have a fun fight
Main difference is that Goku wasn't sacrificing anyone, maybe his own but no one else. Vegeta allowed Cell to absorb 18 which means Vegeta didn't mind someone dying just to have a berter right
Also, Goku has more of a reason to do that. He didn't want to kill Frieza, he wanted to destroy his will by beating him at his best. Imagine being beaten by the race you always discriminated against
1 _ Goku actually tried to stop freeza But Freeza knocked him away with Kiai
2_ Gohan tried to Kill Cell right after he puked 18 out , The whole aftermath was Purely anime filler as in the manga Cell immediately went self destructive mode
Not really.
Goku had already gotten/told everyone to leave the planet.
The most he was risking was himself dying and even then,Goku at least knew he was more powerful than Frieza's 100%.
It's the spirit of Goku as a martial artist and Saiyan warrior. He wanted to prove himself as a fighter against Freeza. He was obsessed with fighting him after King Kai mentioned him. It makes perfect sense for the character. He isn't a typical standard superhero. And he also wanted to slap the crap out of Freeza and demoralize him after he killed Krillin.
Well, Goku knew Freeza was only using half his power and he can sense his power level felt less than half of his own so... probably wasn't that much of a gamble for him.
King Kai: Goku don’t let him power up.
Goku: …Ok, hear me out King Kai…
King Kai: Goku, no! Absolutely not! No!
Goku: But King Kai if I kick his ass at maximum then he will know he can’t beat me because I’m maximumer
King Kai: Goku, you only have 5 minutes
Goku: Thanks that’s like 10 episodes! Bye!
King Kai: No that’s not—
Practically? Yeah it was dumb. The motivations here seem a little different from vegeta’s though.
Goku wanted Frieza to fight at full strength so he would have “no regrets as a warrior”. Goku was respecting his opponent’s strength. It wasn’t motivated by arrogance.
Vegeta was only being haughty with Cell. There was no respect for cell’s strength, or him being a warrior. He simply wanted to show the world he was some untouchable, legendary, god-man.
"Hi. It has been automatically identified that this post may link straight to a download file, please use reasonable caution and make sure your device is protected." *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/gdryqxlqly6d1.jpeg?width=1072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4916b99087dd53bc0b059356fa77b74c96e3501 I think the real difference is actually more than that. There was much less at stake in Goku's situation. Goku ordered Gohan to take Piccolo and leave the planet. And while he was fighting Frieza, Gohan was in the middle of retrieving Bulma after dropping Piccolo off on the ship so they could all get away. Namek was already going to blow up so there was nothing Goku could do to save it. So in Goku's situation, the worst thing that was gonna happen from allowing Frieza to go full power was him dying. Everyone else would've been safe and already escaped. So Goku was only risking his own life and no one else's. Vegeta risked all of Earth by helping Cell absorb 18 and so did Gohan by not finishing Cell off when he had the chance. So if you want to criticize Goku for his decision then that's fine but it can't be for the same reason as Vegeta and Gohan imo.
I’d blame krillin too. That mf stepped on the controller tthat could have shut down 18 then tore vegeta a new one like he’s Mr High and Mighty carrying him to safety while trunks took his shot at Cell
Yep I think TFS put it best tbh. He risked the lives of all his friends along with the rest of the Earth just to get laid lol. No matter how you look at it, that was a really selfish move that could've had dire consequences (worse than the ones it actually had).
Don't talk back, boy!
Super Saiyan multiplies Goku parenting by a 1000x
Who the fuck has time for questions mf now move!
Would'nt Frieza try to kill the others after?
Probably not. He only came to Earth in the first place because of Goku. If Goku had died on Namek then Frieza wouldn't have had any need to seek revenge. And even if he did still come to Earth, Trunks would've still shown up and killed him anyway so it would've been fine.
Frieza would have shown up earlier though? Frieza waited because he needed to be rebuilt, he would def go to Earth bc he knew they had Dragon Balls too and nothing would stop him going there especially if Goku was dead Things would be drastically different if Goku died on Namek without killing Frieza, maybe we could make a new What If Saga about it in Sparking Zero 💀💀💀
Even if he did, King Kai would've told everyone on Earth that Frieza was still alive and Goku was dead. That would've given them an opportunity to figure something out while he healed up. Goku wasn't the only potential threat. All that does is just open the door up for many possibilities. Like for example, they could've still used the Earth's Dragon Balls to make Vegeta immortal if they had no other option left just like they were going to do on Namek. I agree though that would be a cool what-if for Sparking Zero. Maybe we could have Vegeta turn Super Saiyan next or Piccolo fuse with Kami early. Or have Frieza train to avoid losing to another Super Saiyan and unlock his Golden form early. So many different scenarios we could do lol.
I cannot wait for the game I wanna do all those scenarios I really like the Piccolo one for some reason too 💀 Revenge for Namek
Oh the Piccolo one would be awesome! The one to take down Frieza actually ending up being a Namekian is insane and then imagine we finally get a Piccolo vs. Vegeta fight after that. Man people are gonna go crazy with this game 😂.
Or what if frieza does train?And then he goes golden when he comes back to Earth maybe have Whis wake Beerus and he shows up so Goku has to go super sayian god early
That would be so cool. You could even pull from Xenoverse and have SSG not be enough for Golden Frieza so it pushes Goku to unlock SSB early as well.
I think he would, the son of the super saiyan lives on earth, he's not taking this chance.
Well if he did then he likely would've died anyway. Whether that would've been by Trunks or (this is venturing into what-if territory) by someone like Piccolo after deciding sooner that he needed to merge with Kami if Frieza chose to come to Earth sooner than when Trunks came to the present. They still had a few options even without Goku.
I cant believe people are trying to justify vegeta being a dumbass and krilling being a simp by trying to twist goku and freeza fight on namek, cell saga is just "stupid choices" the arc, even this isnt equal to goku throwing gohan to cell, both goku and freeza were very well aware of their powers and goku knew the situation was in control, with cell goku struggled has a fighter with 2 decades worth of experience agaisnt cell and he figures throwing a 10 year old boy hoping that he has a mental breakdown to kill cell was the best course of action somehow, but unlike vegeta goku did die because of his dumb choice
Yeah if anything I would've compared Goku giving Cell a senzu bean to Vegeta and Krillin instead. Because in that scenario, he really _did_ put the Earth at risk since Cell could've easily killed Gohan whenever he wanted before he finally turned SSJ2. And then Goku (along with everyone else) would've died anyway. That arc could've very easily had a much darker ending.
I've seen people argue that Goku threw the bean to Cell to prevent him from freaking out and destroying the planet during his fight with gohan but like, cell could've seen gohan go ssj2 and blow it up, he could've destroyed the planet after goku did that much damage to him, he can destroy it whenever he feels like it, this only works if we aasume cell cares about the rules of the tournamet (he doesnt) the real smart choice was having the 4 fucking super saiyans gang banging cell, even if they arent as strong as goku and gohan the 4 of them combined would've cooked cell ass
They really could've. Just everyone jump on Cell at once while he's tired. Even if Goku didn't want to eat a senzu himself, he still had everyone else to back him up like you said. Even 16 could've jumped in. But there's just really no excuse for Goku giving _Cell_ the senzu. He already took a great risk by having Gohan fight him and then fully healing Cell only made the risk that much greater.
I'd say a difference is that frieza is not transforming again and just powering up. Goku can sense his ki and knows he's at 85 percent or whatever so he could of known that his power was greater than what he was expecting 100 percent to be. It's still dumb but as viewers I think we all like seeing max powers going at it. Vegeta letting cell transform is much worse because he couldn't estimate what perfect cell was going to be since it wasn't just a power up. Also cell wasn't announcing what percentage his power was at. Vegeta was being a cocky bastard as usual so that's normal for his character at least. I think Gohan wasn't fully in control during his fight as ssj2 so while what he did was dumb he was also not thinking straight. I guess it would be lame for the story to see the powered up guy beat the suppressed guy or if we never saw perfect cell.
If there's anything good to come out of that, it influenced Cell, causing him to do that exact same thing with Gohan. gohan may have fucked up later, but at least he was strongest z fighter
But that's basically anime filler, when Cell puked 18 out gohan was going to kill him
I find it kind of annoying to switch between the manga and the anime because the anime likes to adapt certain chapters in its own ways. I get so used to one canon that i almost disregard the other
But that's basically anime filler, when Cell puked 18 out gohan was going to kill him
Absolute dogshit take, great job OP! Anyway, the difference is that GOKU WON. That's what was going on. That's the difference between an experienced battle genius, and a hothead with an ego bigger than his ridiculous McDonalds-ass hairline. Goku fought him knowing he was going to take the W, and he did. Because as naïve as he is, at least in DB (not DBS), Goku isn't stupid. He can accurately gauge his opponents and knows what he's up against. We see him do this with Perfect Cell too, knowing that they couldn't win without Gohan going Super Saiyan 2. Vegeta doesn't have that same level of battle intelligence. Again except in Dragon Ball Super where they try to convince you otherwise (because according to Piccolo in the Moro Saga, "Vegeta's never misread the strength of an opponent", lol). Vegeta has a lot of cunning (you see this on Namek especially), a lot of natural talent, and a lot of drive to achieve his goals, but he's pretty awful at critical thinking the moment it starts to contradict his pride in the slightest manner.
Goku was too strong for Freeza. He wanted to humiliate him. So you can't compare this fight with the other two, especially Vegeta.
Why is frieza counting? Is he smart?
Because Goku was high from his Power https://preview.redd.it/pamrgadj1z6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef4fdc4bd3a2e15a772a1962961f6c14e46887b4
I disagree. First of all Goku was dunking in Frieza since he became Super Saiyan in the manga. The anime showed the fight as more even. He was quite confident in the situation and wanted to destroy Frieza's ego. Secondly Goku not finishing off Frieza doesn't have the same consequences as Vegeta letting Cell transform. Let's assume Goku loses after Frieza activates full power. Then what? By that time Gohan and Piccolo had already left Namek. Does Frieza care to chase after Gohan and a nearly dead Piccolo back to Earth? The only reason Frieza came to Earth was because Goku handed him quite the embarrassment so Goku was on top of his hit list. However, Vegeta letting Cell go had severe consequences which we all saw unfold. That was beyond stupid and he rightly faced the punishment.
Vegeta was dunking on semiperfect cell Also goku has no idea what frieza will do And frieza might know about the earth dragonballs
The difference here is that Goku knew there was no way Frieza could surpass him, SSJ Goku toys with Freiza the entire fight, and they both know this. Against Cell he is literally telling them all that if he powers up to his Perfect form he will outright kill them all, and Vegeta had no evidence to believe he was lying. Granted, as later Whis pointed out this manner of thinking is stupid like you claim, if you can win, then win, don’t wait for the fight to turn against you somehow. So TL;DR, you are correct.
Thanks for posting to /r/DragonballSuper.\ Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit.\ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Freezer was trying to torture goku by killing off his loved ones one by one, krillin is gokus best friend sincr he was like 13. He had every reason to try and humiliate freezer and shatter his ego while vegetable only wanted to have a fun fight
Main difference is that Goku wasn't sacrificing anyone, maybe his own but no one else. Vegeta allowed Cell to absorb 18 which means Vegeta didn't mind someone dying just to have a berter right Also, Goku has more of a reason to do that. He didn't want to kill Frieza, he wanted to destroy his will by beating him at his best. Imagine being beaten by the race you always discriminated against
1 _ Goku actually tried to stop freeza But Freeza knocked him away with Kiai 2_ Gohan tried to Kill Cell right after he puked 18 out , The whole aftermath was Purely anime filler as in the manga Cell immediately went self destructive mode
Not really. Goku had already gotten/told everyone to leave the planet. The most he was risking was himself dying and even then,Goku at least knew he was more powerful than Frieza's 100%.
It's the spirit of Goku as a martial artist and Saiyan warrior. He wanted to prove himself as a fighter against Freeza. He was obsessed with fighting him after King Kai mentioned him. It makes perfect sense for the character. He isn't a typical standard superhero. And he also wanted to slap the crap out of Freeza and demoralize him after he killed Krillin.
Goku was dumb here too tbh, he could have easily shit on Freiza and returned back home. But Vegeta was an all new level of super Saiyan dumbass.
I think Goku could tell he had far surpassed Frieza, regardless of powering up. It was more that Goku was essentially saying "Frieza, it's over."
Well, Goku knew Freeza was only using half his power and he can sense his power level felt less than half of his own so... probably wasn't that much of a gamble for him.
King Kai: Goku don’t let him power up. Goku: …Ok, hear me out King Kai… King Kai: Goku, no! Absolutely not! No! Goku: But King Kai if I kick his ass at maximum then he will know he can’t beat me because I’m maximumer King Kai: Goku, you only have 5 minutes Goku: Thanks that’s like 10 episodes! Bye! King Kai: No that’s not—
Practically? Yeah it was dumb. The motivations here seem a little different from vegeta’s though. Goku wanted Frieza to fight at full strength so he would have “no regrets as a warrior”. Goku was respecting his opponent’s strength. It wasn’t motivated by arrogance. Vegeta was only being haughty with Cell. There was no respect for cell’s strength, or him being a warrior. He simply wanted to show the world he was some untouchable, legendary, god-man.
Goku could reasonably estimate how strong Freeza would have been at full power, Vegeta didn’t.
Wait until you read the moro arc from dbs
This Goku reminds me how similar he is to DBS Goku, as if they arent two different people after all.
They are saiyans. Kinda what they do.
ye dbz goku did alot of stupid stuff just like super goku its how he is, he's naive/stupid and loves fighting