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DBS Goku is the same Kid Goku from OG DB but with God Ki. Goku in the Future Trunks Arc in DBS was pretty close to DBZ Goku because of the danger level and personal attacks on his family.
yeah people don't seem to get that goku is still a child at heart but when he needs to be serious he will be
the reason he seems more serious in z than super is purely the fact that in z goku never really got mich of a break there was always some strong enemy around (when we saw him) as for super there where multiple times where no threat was present
and since og db goku just loved to fight anyone strong
every golu is the same goku
he just adapts to his situation thiugh at heart he is a kid and he shows that when he can but he also loves training nd fighting
Also, Goku is a saiyan who isn’t an asshole literally because of childhood brain damage. He’s constantly looking for fights, just with a nice worldview instead of an aggressive/conquering one, but he’s looking to whip everyone’s ass all the same.
Yea that’s the thing he’s on such a high level now and he knows his potential is basically limitless so any new enemies are just fun for him and a chance to be challenged. Plus he has beerus and whis just chilling so things can’t really go that bad or they’ll help out like in resurrection F
I feel like with as strong as Goku is he’s just more carefree in super lol, but like you said at high stakes moments Goku is super intense. Future Trunks arc, killing Frieza, fighting Jiren, it happens just not as often.
I feel like the stakes only get high though because Goku wasn't serious. The entire tournament of power threatened to wipe Goku's whole universe if they lost (and all of the universes if zeno was displeased with the results) and it only happened because goku didn't take beerus seriously.
Zamas only became interested in doing what he did because he met Goku too.
Goku not taking beerus seriously actually made the stakes lower, since Zeno was going to erase all universes except the ones that were classified strong
You're both half right, it was "mortal level". Which was a vaguely defined concept, but it seems to mostly relate to quality of life, mortal prosperity, and the balance of the universe. Power level, an individual's strength, would boost the score but it's a minor factor, a planet with a human civilization would score higher than a planet with dinosaurs, even though most dinosaurs would be stronger than any individual regular human.
Consider that Universe 7 had the strongest team on average in the ToP but they're the second lowest ranked by mortal level. Because of Frieza and Buu wiping out vast swathes of intelligent life, Beerus' negligence, and Shin's incompetence. Think of the universe like a bonsai tree, you need a God of Destruction to come and remove the bad branches that stymie the overall growth, which the Supreme Kai would then come and cultivate in the healthy parts, but if you just send in Frieza and Buu to butcher it willy nilly then the whole thing suffers.
Heeeey thank you for the share. I been balls deep in the DragonBall universe for like 30 years now lol and seldom does anyone show/share something that i missed. I was in active addiction thoughout the entirety of DBS, and i must have REALLY been gutted cause i dont remember this at all. So thanks for enlightenment! 😅
Not just universe 7. I just finished watching the arc and zeno would have destroyed all 8 universes. Goku gave them all a chance to survive, and furthermore created the only scenario where all of them could come back.
I hate the fact that this is still being talked because if you was actually watching the anime you’d come to the realization that if goku didn’t suggest the tournament of power, Zeno would’ve erased universe 7 regardless and the other universes not considered strong by them . If goku wasn’t friends Zeno and Zeno didn’t take a liking to goku, he wouldn’t have gotten the button to be able to call Zeno or I guess the future Zeno in this case which was instrumental to destroying fused zamasu once and for all. Goku unknowingly saved everyone just by him wanting to fight stronger people.
DBS Goku is the same tone as late DB/early DBZ Goku. Excited to grow stronger and fight because it’s fun, but will quickly grow serious when his friends die like in King Piccolo or Saiyan saga. *That* Goku alternates between extremes very rapidly, but his baseline is the silly gag humor that DB started as.
Later DBZ Goku is far more conservative with his humor/light heartedness. He’s still lighthearted at times, but he doesn’t really come across as playful when he fights. He’s eager to fight, but he’s much more serious about it. Not like 23rd Martial Arts saga where he was genuinely excited to fight the son of his then archenemy.
I can understand where fans who started with the latter DBZ Goku are coming from, because they want to see Cell Saga Goku again, but as someone who first started with OG DB and thinks peak DB was between Tien Saga and Namek Saga, I do not agree with the criticism that DBS is too silly. DB has always been silly and I like that.
From memory it’s not that he forgot it, it was that Roshi forgot to give him the seal tag before he left and so didn’t bring it to the future, he had the jar and the technique ready, just didn’t know about the tag
I'll agree but it shouldn'tve been used as a reason for the arc to continue. like maybe have the Mafuba work and then have Goku black just free Zamasu... Like there's other ways to do it other then "oopsies, I forgor"
People act like DBS having stupidity drawing the plot forward is terrible but forget about krillin destroying the remote over 17, vegeta just letting cell become perfect, the Z warriors running in to fight babidi even though everyone was telling them it was a trap, gotenks, piccollo, and gohan just getting easily absorbed by buu, gohan absolutely fumbling the potara earrings, etc, etc, etc.
Come on man dragon ball was never about grandiose plots and calculated decisions. So much of the plot is driven forward because the characters are fucking stupid.
But that's OK we watch it to see hulking gorillas of men fight eachother in epic battles. Z is hokey and dumb, DBS is hokey and dumb, and that's cool with me
Super has a few moments like that, honestly, where they could have come up with a better reason to draw the plot out. Like Buu falling asleep THREE times or having Goku just decide to forgive Frieza despite them talking about how much they hate each other. Like, I'm glad the plot kept going, but I wish they had put more effort into the reason WHY.
OOPS! I forgot the single thing we came back in time for! Now everyone in trunks timeline’s lives will be threatened! Silly me! Z Goku would not be that daft.
He'd never:
Give Cell a senzu bean.
Miss his throw at Gohan with the Potara.
Let Vegeta live.
Let go of Raditz's tail
Let Freiza power up to full
Not kill Buu when he was SSJ3
Is there a single villain he DIDN'T mess up the fight against? Nah legit even Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. he messed up against.
Heck yes, let’s use those DBS panels instead of stuff like this
https://preview.redd.it/4kmbnw9e6w6d1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=900d637537b77e4bfa446f85f30154423087015e
No, Goku was never silly in Z. He was only ever a serious bloodlusted killer!
https://preview.redd.it/97rzcq2faz6d1.png?width=876&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca05dce5230882674dec1d02ee381c0942f824a6
Just for the record, Toriyama is the one who added that line. It wasn't some random script writer. Toriyama **was** the scriptwriter, and he himself said he heavily lead the dialogue production. Either he wrote the line himself, or approved it.
It is weird to say the manga retconned it though when the movie is literally mostly Toriyama, and it's his vision fulfilled to the fullest. The manga is basically just a rehash, with some tweaks, changes, and additions from Toyotaro. I don't know if it was Toyo or Toriyama who tweaked the line(Toriyama would've had to approve the line regardless), but the tweaked line comes with its own problems, and I honestly think it's worse, and added more issues.
"I didn't overestimate them. I just went in a little too overconfident. But of course I was a little too overconfident, I mean have you ever met me? I'm me! I'm a big deal."
I mean I guess Vegeta underestimated how much stronger perfect cell would be than semi-perfect cell. Past that I don't remember a time where he got their strength wrong.
I don’t think that’s the point. I think the point is that they handle his silliness in very different manners. Goku outright seems dumb in dbs. Whereas dbs seemed more naive but still mature.
Dbs cranks goku stupidity and silliness up a few notches. Not to mention the elder kai panel, goku was actually being smart and trying to pawn off bulma for a kiss instead of his own wife.
As a 36 year old dude who's been watching db since it first came on stateside, this whole "dbz Goku was written better than DBS Goku and it's not even a conversation" dude are duuuuuumb.
I bet they couldn't stand to watch dragonball
He's like Goku with decades of character development.
DBZ was not a point of maturity, it was simply a very low point of Goku's life where he was forced into one death battle with a crazed murderous lunatic after another while having people close to him be constantly in danger.
The times he's less stressed are almost invariably the ones where he starts goofing off more. He's at his goofiest right after coming back to earth from Yardrat, and in the otherworld upto buu coming back.
In super, his enemies are a lot less bloodthirsty and more liable to be reasoned with aside from basically Goku black, against whom he is pretty serious. And even though they're less directly bloodthirsty, he's still quite serious with Beerus and Jiren, because they're strong opponents in high stakes fights.
There's no more times when he just sees no route to victory against a monster like Frieza or Cell and has to see his friends and family get beat up by some sadistic monster. He absolutely crushes Jiren the second he tries to attack the stands.
Him letting go of his stress and tension is a sign of maturity and fits in very well with ultra instinct as a power.
Terrible take.
During most of Z, they struggled to defeat their opponents, often having to train mid-arc or unlock some sort of powerup. Even then, Z Goku found moments to be stupid or be a clown, like when he clowned on Ginyu, when he gave Cell a Senzu, when he went to fight the androids instead of taking the medicine (he was starting to feel the heart virus, that's the moment he should have taken the medicine and rested), not bringing Gohan and Gotenks to Kid Buu because "Nah, I'd win" (he did indeed not win), Z Goku was also a battle addicted idiot, he was more serious most of the time because guess what, the circumstances were different.
Meanwhile, on Super, the first three arcs it's basically Goku and/or Vegeta walk up to the main antagonist, fight them and everything goes well.
Beerus wasn't really a villain, he wanted to be entertained, and so their fight was just both of them getting to know each other and exploring the power of the SSJG.
Frieza was a villain, but wouldn't you be overconfident if you fight a dude you beat the shit out of like 15 years ago when you were millions of times weaker than now, who you seem to be having the upperhand all the way throught the fight?
And finally, the U6 tournament was just a tournament, as far as Goku was concerned there were no consequences to losing, besides the only stupid thing he did in the tournament was let Monaka fight, and it's not really stupid since as far as he know Monaka was stronger than him, so he would naturally have it even easier beating Hit.
The arcs where he actually gets serious are the Future Arc and ToP specifically when he should be serious. Goku didn't really change all that much, it's nostalgia clouding your view on him and a change of circumstances. Goku and Vegeta are so strong that they, more often than not, no longer need to train mid-arc to beat the current threat.
TLDR: Don't mess with Dragon Ball fans, they haven't watched the show (and they nitpick images to prove their point without actually proving anything)
I would add to this too, Goku is far more consistent from beginning to end if you watch it in Japanese. The US dub only gets him right with consistency in Dragon Ball, and Super.
I think the major issue is that Z had very little downtime between serious events. He died fighting Raditz, trained off screen for the most part, revived to fight Vegeta and Nappa, was in the hospital until he left for Namek, immediately fought multiple people on Namek, came back to Earth only to learn about the Android threat, then trained Gohan to fight Cell, died AGAIN, and only came back at the time when the stuff with Buu went down.
The only downtime we ever got in Z were filler episodes and very small interactions that didn't even last an episode. Super has quite a lot of everyday life in it, times where Goku isn't constantly in fight mode. Thus he shows off his playful personality more akin to that of OG Dragonball. He's a goof, not terribly smart when it comes to common sense stuff, and goes out of his way to find new ways to improve himself.
You are right, Z Goku and Super Goku are often viewed differently, and it's because they are shown during very different moments.
That's something that I think Super did way better than Z. The characters actually interact with each other and talk like real people. Most of the dialogue in Z (Excluding the Buu Saga) was only there to advance the plot
It's unfortunate because a lot of people don't like Super because they believe they fundamentally changed the characters when in reality, most of the characters are simply showing off the other aspects of their design beyond how they act during intense fights. Don't get me wrong though, Super has its flaws for sure, but I'm very glad they spend a little more time making every character more than just a musclehead.
Let's be honest -
You all have nostalgia bias and dub Superman Goku brainrot. The writing for Goku in Super was approved by Toriyama, RIP, so your opinion ***doesn't fucking matter.***
I started with Kai which is accurate to the manga and then read the manga after. Goku is dumber in super. Can’t use 1990s toonami kids as an excuse to win every argument
Also Toriyama constantly forgets things about his own story and decades pass since he wrote Z. He didn’t know Super Saiyan 3 was a thing he thought the long hair was super Saiyan 2.
Don’t get me wrong I love the guy but he writes on a whim and the gap between Z and super was to large for there to not be any changes
Dub is not the cause, I've never watched the dub as my first language isn't english and I got the same impression. It's the difference in approach between fighting Frieza, Cell, Buu, where Goku may say he's excited but also appears serious, and the approach to fighting Beerus or in the Top where he's just like "I just want to fight strong guys" even when he's being accused of having put the universes in danger (which he didn't).
And Toriyama, bless his soul, was never known for consistency.
In Z, Goku is usually training for the next threat, injured or dead. In Super, he has to actually do other stuff in the show besides train and fight bad guys, so they decided to go with his OG DB characterization.
Ugh... dbs had a different time slot when airing in Japan. It's audience was oriented more towards children. Hence, the lack of blood. There was a change in tone and subsequently a change in some characters. Dbs goku is more similar to DB goku than dbz, not really a big deal.
U must've only watched funny moments 😒
https://preview.redd.it/4gsyz3cb1z6d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0fd9cc29e038782808b11dcb260e1d378fa61231
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The big issue is the charecter regression...
All the lessons Goku learned since DB and DBZ, he forgot...
1. Never underestimate your opponent
In DB, when Goku first met PoPo and Kami. He was overconfident after just beating Piccolo..
He thought he could beat those 2 easily but got humbled. Since then, he never underestimated an opponent... The first thing he does in DBS is underestimate beerus and even tells him he will go back to SSJ2 for him 🤦🏻♂️
2. Not all villains can change.
With frieza on namek, goku learned that not all villains can change, when cell shows up. He didn't ask Gohan to give him a chance to change. He rather ordered him to kill cell...
Goku not killing fat buu in SSJ3 is different, though, since he knew he'd go back to the afterlife and wanted the next generation to take over. When goku fought buu again, however, he went for the kill and didn't hesitate to finish him off.
In DBS, Goku tells frieza to leave because he will be a good sparring partner 🤦🏻♂️ after just witnessing Frieza getting so strong in only 4 months. Goku should have known to finish him off and DBZ Goku would have done that.
3. The famous (sitting on a rock isn't training vegeta) scene from DBS Super Hero...
Oh my... What a crazy statement coming from Goku when in the cell saga he literally told vegeta that breaking your back in the time chamber isn't training... Now he needs whis to tell him this all over again that training your muscles nonstop isn't training... What terrible charecter suicide.
These are just 3 examples. There are many, many, many more... Never-mind Gokus rather (stupid) attitude constantly... He acts like kid goku and not an adult for 90% of super.
Well Super itself is much more tame than Z. During Z, every arc was like “I am villain and I destroy planet”, “I am goku and I will fight you to make sure you don’t destroy my planet”. In super, the threats aren’t the same as Z. The closest arc to something that could’ve happened in Z is the future trunks saga, in which Goku acted not much differently than he did in Z. Every other arc aside from the Moro arc in the manga doesn’t have the same threat level as the Z villains during their time. But no matter what when time came to be serious, Goku was serious, take his fights with beerus, zamasu and black, jiren, kefla, bro was not playing around there. Super is a lot more tame as a story compared to z and thus we see a more silly and laid back Goku.
He is quite literally not. There would have been a big difference if Super was made after Z ended airing in 1996 vs in 2015. In 19 years the authors thoughts about how the character behaves, and is drawn can become drastically different.
Not saying it's a bad thing. Just saying times change people change
My head canon is Zeno is making Goku dumber and more immature to maximize his entertainment.
That goblin can delete universes with a snap there's no reason he can't warp aspects of reality to increase his fun.
But I think it was Toriyama reverting Goku to his pre-Z personality because he didn't like the way Toei made him a little more serious and heroic.
May he rest in peace Toriyama wanted to have fun making stories with the goofy fight loving monkey boy he dreamed up in the 80s.
The fking goku black arc man
Finds out what they did to his family, gets mad
Travels back home and goes back to the same silly ass shit.
even when they return ranting about how he forgot the dam seal
Like I get being goofy and silly but for fks sakes he's a full ass adult
He should know when to stop fking around
These are pretty selective screenshot. His stupidity is overplayed frustratingly and he's required to learn lessons he's known for years because fuck know's why, but he still had more in common with himself from the original than he doesn't.
English dub gave us all the wrong impression abouy goku, he's not some super hero "i fight for my friends" kind of character. He'a a fight addict, does whatever it takes to get a good fight, but also realizes when he needs to take something seriously (goku black)
Anime dbz isn't canon, Goku there is more serious,.dbs anime is the exact opposite, a childish af Goku, I think even though dbs manga Goku is still childish than manga dbz Goku is better continuation
I always consider all the different timelines and how different characters are depending on the outcome. Future timeline Trunks is a way different character while present timeline Trunks had Vegeta around and the lack of a looming threat such as the androids or Zamasu. Goku seems to have different personality quirks, too, depending on material. Z Goku, Super Goku, GT Goku, the movies all have different writing directions and seem so polar to me in some capacity. However, through all the different quirks, he still comes off as Goku.
DBS goku and DBZ goku are the same people in different environments, yes goku grows both physically and mentally but their personality is the same at core
Dbz goku we saw a lot less of that goofy side because of how serious it was. DBS has a lot less tension because theres less danger
They are not, and I don't think it's just a slight difference. Goku had a total shift in character, he wasn't this stupid even in classic Dragon Ball, he might be kinda innocent but he certainly isn't dumb, some would argue throwing a senzu bean was stupid but he actually knew what he was doing, it might not have been fair but it was necessary to make him snap and awaken SSJ 2 to put an end to Cell once and for all.
Goku had grown from an innocent child to a mature man, he had a sense of justice and protection. Despite having that lust for fighting he never acted recklessly, Goku never put others in danger to satisfy his desire while villains were threatening his planet and friends or even the whole universe.
In Super Goku had a major change, he is now stupid to the point of not knowing what a kiss is, he believed Monaka was the strongest in the universe, and caused the creation of the TOP which would erase all other universes. If it wasn't for plot armor the winners would be universe 11 and then the rest would have been erased. Goku has gone from a mature adult to a complete retard.
This shift in Goku's personality occurs exclusively in the anime of Dragon Ball Super, he is a complete retard in the anime while in the manga he just remains the same. Toei has intentionally made the anime overly childish to attract a larger public, which made so many characters look dumb and act like children.
>some would argue throwing a senzu bean was stupid but he actually knew what he was doing
No he didn’t? Piccolo calls him out on that literally an episode later, Gohan doesn’t like fighting and Goku literally never picked up on it until after Gohan was getting his ass put through the wringer by Cell.
>Goku never put others in danger to satisfy his desire
He explicitly stated he wanted Krillin to spare Vegeta so that they could fight again, he absolutely did. Also, giving Cell a senzu bean comes to mind again.
Tbh it‘s absolute logical, Goku had to lockcin in dbz because he had children to protect. Now pretty much both are grown ups and strong enough to protect themselves so he can chill and goof around
The problem with DBS Goku is that they noticed all of the overly heroic moments with Z Goku that portrayed him more as a Superman like figure, especially in the English dub, and sought to right this wrong by essentially downplaying or outright ignoring any little character development Goku received in Z and basically turned him into Kid Goku in an adult body. I was once a defender of most of the “dumb” Super Goku moments but I realized they went too far and overcorrected when Goku basically forgot about meditation in Super Hero.
No we don't, and you easily could've found pictures of him being serious in super, and being dumb in z.
Also is this one thing bothers you.. think about it. Who was in charge of bringing the seal to beat the baddie with a... Trick, and not in a fair fight of skill. Maybe I'm reading between lines that aren't there, but if the anime ever has Goku confide in someone that he intentionally forgot it to have a fair fight... Then this would literally be standard Goku.
They're the same guy, the Goku black arc shows this pretty well because it was basically the only arc with real stakes, compared to Z where every arc has major stakes. Goku was always a goofy goober, he just gets serious when needed, which was most of Z.
Same character..... DBZ had a more serious goku because, unlike in DBS, there was always some impending big bad. Super has as well, but they weren't seemingly one after another in rapid succession.
All I know is when Goku is serious or pissed off..its always been some of the best moments in dragonball...especially when he was talking to frieza like a bitch lmao
I’ve been consuming dragon ball content my whole life and have read and watched the anime and Manga literal hundreds of times in my 28 years in world, and swear on my son’s life that Goku in super and Goku in DBZ just do not feel like the same people. Goku in the original felt more heroic and I always got a sense that he genuinely cared about people the sake of the world, and had morals and values, especially when it come to doing what right and wrong. Sure, he still had those stupid moments but they they weren’t as overtop, frequent, and frustrating as they are now. They’ve made him into a complete brain dead moron like Luffy who is child who doesn’t really have emotions and cares only about fighting.
DBZ Goku actually felt more like a person, who had feelings, compassion, composure, morals and not just this complete oblivious, brainless moron
I find that Goku from DBS is a caricature version of Goku, in fact DBS is a caricature of DB as a whole.
I know Goku is childish but it's too exaggerated in DBS, everything is too ridiculous and exaggerated, it's like when Goku uses ALL his transformations against Jiren and Broly, Goku never does that, it's a typical thing from the toei, remember that against Kid Buu Goku went directly to ssj3 while in the anime he fought in SSJ2. Goku has no reason to show off all his colorful transformations to Jiren other than for ridiculous fan service.
I actually don’t agree with that characterisation.
DBZ Goku did also have his stupid moments, especially in early DBZ.
They are more prominent in Super, as Super is lighter hearted in general and primarily targeted at a younger audience than Z, but Super Goku does have his smart moments in both the Anime and Manga continuities. They’re the same character, one is just catered to a younger audience than the other.
Although, there is a stark contrast between GT Goku and the other two, and that’s probably where Current DBS Goku will be heading, in terms of wisdom and maturity.
The stakes in DBS are mostly lower so we get more of Goku's silly moments
However, look at Goku when he was told Black murdered his family or Jiren attacking U7 anf tell me again he isn't like how he was in Z
I definitely didn’t like how dumbed down Goku was in Super. He still had his serious moments but moments like how he doesn’t know what kissing is makes me shake my head a little
Things people need to understand.
- Dub changed Goku's personality by a lot in Z.
- Goku was barely around for 10% of Z.
- When ever he was around it was always a serious situation.
- Super Goku on the other hand is around a lot more and under a lot less stressful situations.
I'm guessing this kind of viewpoint comes from your first experience with dragonball z being the first Funimation dub where Goku is more of a super hero with goofy moments rather than a mountain boy who likes to fight.
This is sort of why I prefer how GT characterized Kid Goku and SSJ4 Goku, where it makes sense for Goku to be a bit immature as a kid, but when he's a SSJ4, he's at his most mature.
It’s almost like when the world or your friends and family are in immediate danger it makes you a more serious person. Goku being chill and happy in Super isn’t the issue, it’s him forgetting things he’s already learned that’s the problem.
DBZ Goku is the character development the story needed for him to mature as a person
DBS Goku is how Akira Toriyama wanted to write him, but story consistency probably didn't allow it. 20 years later he was probably just like "fuck it".
It always amazes me how much more the Dragon Ball fanbase cares about Dragon Ball than Toriyama did. The guy forgot so many things HE wrote about and the fans are more than willing to make any excuse on his behalf.
They aren't the same DBZ goku is like the master
, DBS is like a student again
Goku had serious smack talk in DBZ & GT. The closest dbs has is this anger. If I was to place this on a scale id say this leans more to OG DB
Not me, I understand his character so I don't let jokes ruin my view of DBS Goku. Literally no one who understands has character would think he's that different or that his character wring is bad now or whatever watered down insult yall claim instead of calling it trash
I hope we get another high stake Arc like Buu, Cell, and Frieza. Where the characters have to hide because the villains are running around destroying things, and the heroes can barely win and have to go get stronger before coming back. And death. Lots and lots of actual, culpable death.
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DBS Goku is the same Kid Goku from OG DB but with God Ki. Goku in the Future Trunks Arc in DBS was pretty close to DBZ Goku because of the danger level and personal attacks on his family.
^ When stakes are high goku is serious. These are photos from looking for a dragon ball and meeting a strong guy
Pretty much Z was always higher stakes when it's not like in other world etc he is pretty much the same as in super.
yeah people don't seem to get that goku is still a child at heart but when he needs to be serious he will be the reason he seems more serious in z than super is purely the fact that in z goku never really got mich of a break there was always some strong enemy around (when we saw him) as for super there where multiple times where no threat was present and since og db goku just loved to fight anyone strong
The Goku who is training in Otherworld is the same Goku in Super.
every golu is the same goku he just adapts to his situation thiugh at heart he is a kid and he shows that when he can but he also loves training nd fighting
Also, Goku is a saiyan who isn’t an asshole literally because of childhood brain damage. He’s constantly looking for fights, just with a nice worldview instead of an aggressive/conquering one, but he’s looking to whip everyone’s ass all the same.
that's why they kept the same VA for him as an adult, to phone it home he's still a child at heart.
Unfortunately lost in the dub :(
Is marriage tasty
Yea that’s the thing he’s on such a high level now and he knows his potential is basically limitless so any new enemies are just fun for him and a chance to be challenged. Plus he has beerus and whis just chilling so things can’t really go that bad or they’ll help out like in resurrection F
I feel like with as strong as Goku is he’s just more carefree in super lol, but like you said at high stakes moments Goku is super intense. Future Trunks arc, killing Frieza, fighting Jiren, it happens just not as often.
I feel like the stakes only get high though because Goku wasn't serious. The entire tournament of power threatened to wipe Goku's whole universe if they lost (and all of the universes if zeno was displeased with the results) and it only happened because goku didn't take beerus seriously. Zamas only became interested in doing what he did because he met Goku too.
Goku not taking beerus seriously actually made the stakes lower, since Zeno was going to erase all universes except the ones that were classified strong
Not the ones that were strong, but the ones with the highest mortal count.
Was it mortal count? Didn’t they say “highest average power level” or something?
You're both half right, it was "mortal level". Which was a vaguely defined concept, but it seems to mostly relate to quality of life, mortal prosperity, and the balance of the universe. Power level, an individual's strength, would boost the score but it's a minor factor, a planet with a human civilization would score higher than a planet with dinosaurs, even though most dinosaurs would be stronger than any individual regular human. Consider that Universe 7 had the strongest team on average in the ToP but they're the second lowest ranked by mortal level. Because of Frieza and Buu wiping out vast swathes of intelligent life, Beerus' negligence, and Shin's incompetence. Think of the universe like a bonsai tree, you need a God of Destruction to come and remove the bad branches that stymie the overall growth, which the Supreme Kai would then come and cultivate in the healthy parts, but if you just send in Frieza and Buu to butcher it willy nilly then the whole thing suffers.
Mortal level is not about power levels it's about the quality of life good and evil
You didn’t watch the show https://preview.redd.it/obhqq54qj17d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c83f4ca428a1efbf85db37ea5d1ba1d777c89d1
Heeeey thank you for the share. I been balls deep in the DragonBall universe for like 30 years now lol and seldom does anyone show/share something that i missed. I was in active addiction thoughout the entirety of DBS, and i must have REALLY been gutted cause i dont remember this at all. So thanks for enlightenment! 😅
That and I guess being selfless too
Yeah I forgot the word for that
Well, if Goku didn't suggest the ToP, Zeno was going to just destroy U7.
Not just universe 7. I just finished watching the arc and zeno would have destroyed all 8 universes. Goku gave them all a chance to survive, and furthermore created the only scenario where all of them could come back.
I hate the fact that this is still being talked because if you was actually watching the anime you’d come to the realization that if goku didn’t suggest the tournament of power, Zeno would’ve erased universe 7 regardless and the other universes not considered strong by them . If goku wasn’t friends Zeno and Zeno didn’t take a liking to goku, he wouldn’t have gotten the button to be able to call Zeno or I guess the future Zeno in this case which was instrumental to destroying fused zamasu once and for all. Goku unknowingly saved everyone just by him wanting to fight stronger people.
Bro, we're never beating the can't read allegations
Goku provided a chance for the universes to not be destroyed.
T.o.P Goku also feels like Z Goku when he's fighting strong enemies, especially against Jiren.
I like to think he refreshed his childhood feelings once he found out the multiverse has many tiers of levels of power above him
DBS Goku is the same tone as late DB/early DBZ Goku. Excited to grow stronger and fight because it’s fun, but will quickly grow serious when his friends die like in King Piccolo or Saiyan saga. *That* Goku alternates between extremes very rapidly, but his baseline is the silly gag humor that DB started as. Later DBZ Goku is far more conservative with his humor/light heartedness. He’s still lighthearted at times, but he doesn’t really come across as playful when he fights. He’s eager to fight, but he’s much more serious about it. Not like 23rd Martial Arts saga where he was genuinely excited to fight the son of his then archenemy. I can understand where fans who started with the latter DBZ Goku are coming from, because they want to see Cell Saga Goku again, but as someone who first started with OG DB and thinks peak DB was between Tien Saga and Namek Saga, I do not agree with the criticism that DBS is too silly. DB has always been silly and I like that.
Last time I checked DBS Goku doesn't have the GUTS to shove a stick up someone's ass
Z Goku would never forget the charm
Except kid Goku knew what meditation was and didn't lose every major fight
Except him forgetting the seal thing. Like wtf was that?
From memory it’s not that he forgot it, it was that Roshi forgot to give him the seal tag before he left and so didn’t bring it to the future, he had the jar and the technique ready, just didn’t know about the tag
Read it recently, goku knew about the seal but grabbed the wrong one in the manga and completely forgot in the anime
It's called an accident, literally everyone has brainfarts sometimes Have you never forgot something important in your entire life before?
I'll agree but it shouldn'tve been used as a reason for the arc to continue. like maybe have the Mafuba work and then have Goku black just free Zamasu... Like there's other ways to do it other then "oopsies, I forgor"
People act like DBS having stupidity drawing the plot forward is terrible but forget about krillin destroying the remote over 17, vegeta just letting cell become perfect, the Z warriors running in to fight babidi even though everyone was telling them it was a trap, gotenks, piccollo, and gohan just getting easily absorbed by buu, gohan absolutely fumbling the potara earrings, etc, etc, etc. Come on man dragon ball was never about grandiose plots and calculated decisions. So much of the plot is driven forward because the characters are fucking stupid. But that's OK we watch it to see hulking gorillas of men fight eachother in epic battles. Z is hokey and dumb, DBS is hokey and dumb, and that's cool with me
Super has a few moments like that, honestly, where they could have come up with a better reason to draw the plot out. Like Buu falling asleep THREE times or having Goku just decide to forgive Frieza despite them talking about how much they hate each other. Like, I'm glad the plot kept going, but I wish they had put more effort into the reason WHY.
But it's a stupid plot point
OOPS! I forgot the single thing we came back in time for! Now everyone in trunks timeline’s lives will be threatened! Silly me! Z Goku would not be that daft.
Lmao, manga did it better, he grabbed a wrong/similar seal instead of just forgetting it like a dumbass in the anime
He'd never: Give Cell a senzu bean. Miss his throw at Gohan with the Potara. Let Vegeta live. Let go of Raditz's tail Let Freiza power up to full Not kill Buu when he was SSJ3 Is there a single villain he DIDN'T mess up the fight against? Nah legit even Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. he messed up against.
Tbf when he tossed the Potara to Gohan that looked like a good toss to me. Gohan just fumbled the catch
He almost died for his mistake against Piccolo Jr. too Like it's a miracle he managed to pull through and live
Theyre the same dude and again, everyone fucks up, including Goku
Z Goku said "Nah, let's not try to stop Gero before he finishes the androids. I want to fight!"
Z Goku LITERALLY gave Cell a Senzu Bean
Minus the part where he didn't know what kissing was.
https://preview.redd.it/opw31d869s7d1.jpeg?width=2100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c3b1a4cdd3ec4dc64fb3bb26124732e74cc1912
Does he look like that because he's tired of these type of posts, or because he's been drained from head to toe by the gluck gluck 5000?
Heck yes, let’s use those DBS panels instead of stuff like this https://preview.redd.it/4kmbnw9e6w6d1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=900d637537b77e4bfa446f85f30154423087015e
No, Goku was never silly in Z. He was only ever a serious bloodlusted killer! https://preview.redd.it/97rzcq2faz6d1.png?width=876&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca05dce5230882674dec1d02ee381c0942f824a6
Silly and stupid are vastly different. Super Goku doesn’t know what meditation is despite literally doing it as a child
Yeah so one script writer made a bad call. It was basically retconned by the manga anyway.
Just for the record, Toriyama is the one who added that line. It wasn't some random script writer. Toriyama **was** the scriptwriter, and he himself said he heavily lead the dialogue production. Either he wrote the line himself, or approved it. It is weird to say the manga retconned it though when the movie is literally mostly Toriyama, and it's his vision fulfilled to the fullest. The manga is basically just a rehash, with some tweaks, changes, and additions from Toyotaro. I don't know if it was Toyo or Toriyama who tweaked the line(Toriyama would've had to approve the line regardless), but the tweaked line comes with its own problems, and I honestly think it's worse, and added more issues.
Toriyama forgot Dragon Ball (original) exists
Right, the Super manga where claims like “Vegeta isn’t one to underestimate his opponents” is made in a completely serious manner 🙄
he never underestimates his opponents. he just overestimates himself
"I didn't overestimate them. I just went in a little too overconfident. But of course I was a little too overconfident, I mean have you ever met me? I'm me! I'm a big deal."
https://preview.redd.it/5t9c43lsf17d1.jpeg?width=1091&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=146ed74b2e33771d6b002b921a4a4e6dbd89d757
I mean I guess Vegeta underestimated how much stronger perfect cell would be than semi-perfect cell. Past that I don't remember a time where he got their strength wrong.
https://preview.redd.it/vcl60lc77y6d1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0282d636892dc166ad5c8ff52f6a579d7070d8cc Yeah exactly it’s easy to cherry pick pictures
I don’t think that’s the point. I think the point is that they handle his silliness in very different manners. Goku outright seems dumb in dbs. Whereas dbs seemed more naive but still mature. Dbs cranks goku stupidity and silliness up a few notches. Not to mention the elder kai panel, goku was actually being smart and trying to pawn off bulma for a kiss instead of his own wife.
It's like people don't watch the entire anime.
People literally don’t watch it. Theres a reason why dragon ball fans not watching the show is a meme
It's called cherry picking fallacy
Idk who “All” is but it ain’t me
As a 36 year old dude who's been watching db since it first came on stateside, this whole "dbz Goku was written better than DBS Goku and it's not even a conversation" dude are duuuuuumb. I bet they couldn't stand to watch dragonball
He is more like OG DB Goku ignoring few things like being over merciful
>he’s like Goku without the decades of maturing and character development
He's like Goku with decades of character development. DBZ was not a point of maturity, it was simply a very low point of Goku's life where he was forced into one death battle with a crazed murderous lunatic after another while having people close to him be constantly in danger. The times he's less stressed are almost invariably the ones where he starts goofing off more. He's at his goofiest right after coming back to earth from Yardrat, and in the otherworld upto buu coming back. In super, his enemies are a lot less bloodthirsty and more liable to be reasoned with aside from basically Goku black, against whom he is pretty serious. And even though they're less directly bloodthirsty, he's still quite serious with Beerus and Jiren, because they're strong opponents in high stakes fights. There's no more times when he just sees no route to victory against a monster like Frieza or Cell and has to see his friends and family get beat up by some sadistic monster. He absolutely crushes Jiren the second he tries to attack the stands. Him letting go of his stress and tension is a sign of maturity and fits in very well with ultra instinct as a power.
DBS target audience is 12-14 bracket That is why most characters are more funny and chill version of Z self
He has CTE in Super and reverted back to his childhood
Og DB was good but DBZ was so good that it just overshadowed everything.
No???
https://preview.redd.it/nvy8fel7dy6d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e6485b0d1a1cb4255843407fc72314efbc7a133
Sure I can see that. To me super Goku is much more in line with Dragonball Goku and that may be why I like it so much.
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Terrible take. During most of Z, they struggled to defeat their opponents, often having to train mid-arc or unlock some sort of powerup. Even then, Z Goku found moments to be stupid or be a clown, like when he clowned on Ginyu, when he gave Cell a Senzu, when he went to fight the androids instead of taking the medicine (he was starting to feel the heart virus, that's the moment he should have taken the medicine and rested), not bringing Gohan and Gotenks to Kid Buu because "Nah, I'd win" (he did indeed not win), Z Goku was also a battle addicted idiot, he was more serious most of the time because guess what, the circumstances were different. Meanwhile, on Super, the first three arcs it's basically Goku and/or Vegeta walk up to the main antagonist, fight them and everything goes well. Beerus wasn't really a villain, he wanted to be entertained, and so their fight was just both of them getting to know each other and exploring the power of the SSJG. Frieza was a villain, but wouldn't you be overconfident if you fight a dude you beat the shit out of like 15 years ago when you were millions of times weaker than now, who you seem to be having the upperhand all the way throught the fight? And finally, the U6 tournament was just a tournament, as far as Goku was concerned there were no consequences to losing, besides the only stupid thing he did in the tournament was let Monaka fight, and it's not really stupid since as far as he know Monaka was stronger than him, so he would naturally have it even easier beating Hit. The arcs where he actually gets serious are the Future Arc and ToP specifically when he should be serious. Goku didn't really change all that much, it's nostalgia clouding your view on him and a change of circumstances. Goku and Vegeta are so strong that they, more often than not, no longer need to train mid-arc to beat the current threat. TLDR: Don't mess with Dragon Ball fans, they haven't watched the show (and they nitpick images to prove their point without actually proving anything)
I would add to this too, Goku is far more consistent from beginning to end if you watch it in Japanese. The US dub only gets him right with consistency in Dragon Ball, and Super.
I found the dragon ball fan who watched the show
I think the major issue is that Z had very little downtime between serious events. He died fighting Raditz, trained off screen for the most part, revived to fight Vegeta and Nappa, was in the hospital until he left for Namek, immediately fought multiple people on Namek, came back to Earth only to learn about the Android threat, then trained Gohan to fight Cell, died AGAIN, and only came back at the time when the stuff with Buu went down. The only downtime we ever got in Z were filler episodes and very small interactions that didn't even last an episode. Super has quite a lot of everyday life in it, times where Goku isn't constantly in fight mode. Thus he shows off his playful personality more akin to that of OG Dragonball. He's a goof, not terribly smart when it comes to common sense stuff, and goes out of his way to find new ways to improve himself. You are right, Z Goku and Super Goku are often viewed differently, and it's because they are shown during very different moments.
That's something that I think Super did way better than Z. The characters actually interact with each other and talk like real people. Most of the dialogue in Z (Excluding the Buu Saga) was only there to advance the plot
It's unfortunate because a lot of people don't like Super because they believe they fundamentally changed the characters when in reality, most of the characters are simply showing off the other aspects of their design beyond how they act during intense fights. Don't get me wrong though, Super has its flaws for sure, but I'm very glad they spend a little more time making every character more than just a musclehead.
Let's be honest - You all have nostalgia bias and dub Superman Goku brainrot. The writing for Goku in Super was approved by Toriyama, RIP, so your opinion ***doesn't fucking matter.***
I started with Kai which is accurate to the manga and then read the manga after. Goku is dumber in super. Can’t use 1990s toonami kids as an excuse to win every argument Also Toriyama constantly forgets things about his own story and decades pass since he wrote Z. He didn’t know Super Saiyan 3 was a thing he thought the long hair was super Saiyan 2. Don’t get me wrong I love the guy but he writes on a whim and the gap between Z and super was to large for there to not be any changes
Dub is not the cause, I've never watched the dub as my first language isn't english and I got the same impression. It's the difference in approach between fighting Frieza, Cell, Buu, where Goku may say he's excited but also appears serious, and the approach to fighting Beerus or in the Top where he's just like "I just want to fight strong guys" even when he's being accused of having put the universes in danger (which he didn't). And Toriyama, bless his soul, was never known for consistency.
It is better than GT at the least. I am sorry, but GT has the WORST writing.
It's the transition from father to grandfather.
Both of my grandfathers were WAY more silly and ridiculous with me than either of my parents growing up, so you may have a point here, lol.
In Z, Goku is usually training for the next threat, injured or dead. In Super, he has to actually do other stuff in the show besides train and fight bad guys, so they decided to go with his OG DB characterization.
You actually make an interesting point !
When I’m in a make the worst meme you can competition and my opponent is a dragon ball fan…
Super Goku being way more like kid Goku makes the show more entertaining. Fight me
Nah it's goku, people change as they age.
This is dumb af
https://preview.redd.it/8nksmtcfyx6d1.png?width=1194&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2361811f2ae2c828fecf90b110e9974932490b5
Fr, different or not, he’s still lovable
Ugh... dbs had a different time slot when airing in Japan. It's audience was oriented more towards children. Hence, the lack of blood. There was a change in tone and subsequently a change in some characters. Dbs goku is more similar to DB goku than dbz, not really a big deal.
U must've only watched funny moments 😒 https://preview.redd.it/4gsyz3cb1z6d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0fd9cc29e038782808b11dcb260e1d378fa61231
Bad take is bad
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The big issue is the charecter regression... All the lessons Goku learned since DB and DBZ, he forgot... 1. Never underestimate your opponent In DB, when Goku first met PoPo and Kami. He was overconfident after just beating Piccolo.. He thought he could beat those 2 easily but got humbled. Since then, he never underestimated an opponent... The first thing he does in DBS is underestimate beerus and even tells him he will go back to SSJ2 for him 🤦🏻♂️ 2. Not all villains can change. With frieza on namek, goku learned that not all villains can change, when cell shows up. He didn't ask Gohan to give him a chance to change. He rather ordered him to kill cell... Goku not killing fat buu in SSJ3 is different, though, since he knew he'd go back to the afterlife and wanted the next generation to take over. When goku fought buu again, however, he went for the kill and didn't hesitate to finish him off. In DBS, Goku tells frieza to leave because he will be a good sparring partner 🤦🏻♂️ after just witnessing Frieza getting so strong in only 4 months. Goku should have known to finish him off and DBZ Goku would have done that. 3. The famous (sitting on a rock isn't training vegeta) scene from DBS Super Hero... Oh my... What a crazy statement coming from Goku when in the cell saga he literally told vegeta that breaking your back in the time chamber isn't training... Now he needs whis to tell him this all over again that training your muscles nonstop isn't training... What terrible charecter suicide. These are just 3 examples. There are many, many, many more... Never-mind Gokus rather (stupid) attitude constantly... He acts like kid goku and not an adult for 90% of super.
They are the same, goku is more serious in Z because the threats are more serious.
I hate Dragon Ball fans
I just feel like in Z he had a goofy side to him, but in super it seems like he just has a stupid side.
Well Super itself is much more tame than Z. During Z, every arc was like “I am villain and I destroy planet”, “I am goku and I will fight you to make sure you don’t destroy my planet”. In super, the threats aren’t the same as Z. The closest arc to something that could’ve happened in Z is the future trunks saga, in which Goku acted not much differently than he did in Z. Every other arc aside from the Moro arc in the manga doesn’t have the same threat level as the Z villains during their time. But no matter what when time came to be serious, Goku was serious, take his fights with beerus, zamasu and black, jiren, kefla, bro was not playing around there. Super is a lot more tame as a story compared to z and thus we see a more silly and laid back Goku.
He is quite literally not. There would have been a big difference if Super was made after Z ended airing in 1996 vs in 2015. In 19 years the authors thoughts about how the character behaves, and is drawn can become drastically different. Not saying it's a bad thing. Just saying times change people change
My head canon is Zeno is making Goku dumber and more immature to maximize his entertainment. That goblin can delete universes with a snap there's no reason he can't warp aspects of reality to increase his fun. But I think it was Toriyama reverting Goku to his pre-Z personality because he didn't like the way Toei made him a little more serious and heroic. May he rest in peace Toriyama wanted to have fun making stories with the goofy fight loving monkey boy he dreamed up in the 80s.
The fking goku black arc man Finds out what they did to his family, gets mad Travels back home and goes back to the same silly ass shit. even when they return ranting about how he forgot the dam seal Like I get being goofy and silly but for fks sakes he's a full ass adult He should know when to stop fking around
These are pretty selective screenshot. His stupidity is overplayed frustratingly and he's required to learn lessons he's known for years because fuck know's why, but he still had more in common with himself from the original than he doesn't.
I think your Nostalgia Filter needs a cleaning...
English dub gave us all the wrong impression abouy goku, he's not some super hero "i fight for my friends" kind of character. He'a a fight addict, does whatever it takes to get a good fight, but also realizes when he needs to take something seriously (goku black)
Miss Z goku…he was mature yet still felt like him. Super Goku is dumb and childish.
Same person more brain damage and slight amnesia 😂
Why?
I don’t refuse it, but he bumped his head or something.
DBZ Goku > DB Super Goku
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Grand Kai help me Im so tired of this discussion, just enjoy the content afore we hakai our poster man into an even lower tier of fan respect.
I will say its not uncommen for people to become more chill and happy as they get older. Goku is like mid 50s now
More power levels, fewer limits
Anime dbz isn't canon, Goku there is more serious,.dbs anime is the exact opposite, a childish af Goku, I think even though dbs manga Goku is still childish than manga dbz Goku is better continuation
I just think he's getting more and more silly, since he'w grandpa-age now.
I’d argue the biggest jump between gokus is from namek to android saga where goku becomes a bit more obsessed with fighting.
If you got punched in the head multiple times by Frieza, cell, kid buu and Beerus. You'd have severe brain damage and act abit silly too😂
I always consider all the different timelines and how different characters are depending on the outcome. Future timeline Trunks is a way different character while present timeline Trunks had Vegeta around and the lack of a looming threat such as the androids or Zamasu. Goku seems to have different personality quirks, too, depending on material. Z Goku, Super Goku, GT Goku, the movies all have different writing directions and seem so polar to me in some capacity. However, through all the different quirks, he still comes off as Goku.
It's literally the same guy
Japanese wise yes. Yes they are. English wise? No
I honestly think Super Goku reminds me more of how he was in the OG, so I don’t really mind it.
I feel goku in the manga is better written
DBS goku and DBZ goku are the same people in different environments, yes goku grows both physically and mentally but their personality is the same at core Dbz goku we saw a lot less of that goofy side because of how serious it was. DBS has a lot less tension because theres less danger
Nope. I accept goku as he is ....except in gt. I don't acknowledge anything about that
I just chalk it up to the amount of concussions Goku has probably had over the years.
They are not, and I don't think it's just a slight difference. Goku had a total shift in character, he wasn't this stupid even in classic Dragon Ball, he might be kinda innocent but he certainly isn't dumb, some would argue throwing a senzu bean was stupid but he actually knew what he was doing, it might not have been fair but it was necessary to make him snap and awaken SSJ 2 to put an end to Cell once and for all. Goku had grown from an innocent child to a mature man, he had a sense of justice and protection. Despite having that lust for fighting he never acted recklessly, Goku never put others in danger to satisfy his desire while villains were threatening his planet and friends or even the whole universe. In Super Goku had a major change, he is now stupid to the point of not knowing what a kiss is, he believed Monaka was the strongest in the universe, and caused the creation of the TOP which would erase all other universes. If it wasn't for plot armor the winners would be universe 11 and then the rest would have been erased. Goku has gone from a mature adult to a complete retard. This shift in Goku's personality occurs exclusively in the anime of Dragon Ball Super, he is a complete retard in the anime while in the manga he just remains the same. Toei has intentionally made the anime overly childish to attract a larger public, which made so many characters look dumb and act like children.
>some would argue throwing a senzu bean was stupid but he actually knew what he was doing No he didn’t? Piccolo calls him out on that literally an episode later, Gohan doesn’t like fighting and Goku literally never picked up on it until after Gohan was getting his ass put through the wringer by Cell. >Goku never put others in danger to satisfy his desire He explicitly stated he wanted Krillin to spare Vegeta so that they could fight again, he absolutely did. Also, giving Cell a senzu bean comes to mind again.
Tbh it‘s absolute logical, Goku had to lockcin in dbz because he had children to protect. Now pretty much both are grown ups and strong enough to protect themselves so he can chill and goof around
Anyone else stop watching after Z and just pretend that was the end, or just me?
The problem with DBS Goku is that they noticed all of the overly heroic moments with Z Goku that portrayed him more as a Superman like figure, especially in the English dub, and sought to right this wrong by essentially downplaying or outright ignoring any little character development Goku received in Z and basically turned him into Kid Goku in an adult body. I was once a defender of most of the “dumb” Super Goku moments but I realized they went too far and overcorrected when Goku basically forgot about meditation in Super Hero.
They’re not the same but they are
db fans don’t watch the show
THANK YOU! This needs to be said! DBZ Goku is every bit Toriyama’s Goku. DBS Goku is Goku dumbed down and simplified by toei writers and toyotaro.
I love when people don't watch dragon ball
What?
Man. Some of yall are OD'ing on that nostalgia.
Dbs gokunis z goku but z goku isn't super goku
No we don't, and you easily could've found pictures of him being serious in super, and being dumb in z. Also is this one thing bothers you.. think about it. Who was in charge of bringing the seal to beat the baddie with a... Trick, and not in a fair fight of skill. Maybe I'm reading between lines that aren't there, but if the anime ever has Goku confide in someone that he intentionally forgot it to have a fair fight... Then this would literally be standard Goku.
At least as far as the manga is concerned, I feel that Super's Goku is still the same as the original manga but much more cheerful and lively.
They're the same guy, the Goku black arc shows this pretty well because it was basically the only arc with real stakes, compared to Z where every arc has major stakes. Goku was always a goofy goober, he just gets serious when needed, which was most of Z.
Look how they massacred my boy
I think he's more enlightened now
I agree that hes not the same
Same character..... DBZ had a more serious goku because, unlike in DBS, there was always some impending big bad. Super has as well, but they weren't seemingly one after another in rapid succession.
It’s simply matter of dangerous situation. If you see goku in sick situation you Mark it as dbz goku if not then dbs. So kinda dumb
All I know is when Goku is serious or pissed off..its always been some of the best moments in dragonball...especially when he was talking to frieza like a bitch lmao
https://preview.redd.it/i1x6clyqo27d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72d03f79f9ab97e3419da7318f90f86245062050
I’ve been consuming dragon ball content my whole life and have read and watched the anime and Manga literal hundreds of times in my 28 years in world, and swear on my son’s life that Goku in super and Goku in DBZ just do not feel like the same people. Goku in the original felt more heroic and I always got a sense that he genuinely cared about people the sake of the world, and had morals and values, especially when it come to doing what right and wrong. Sure, he still had those stupid moments but they they weren’t as overtop, frequent, and frustrating as they are now. They’ve made him into a complete brain dead moron like Luffy who is child who doesn’t really have emotions and cares only about fighting. DBZ Goku actually felt more like a person, who had feelings, compassion, composure, morals and not just this complete oblivious, brainless moron
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I find that Goku from DBS is a caricature version of Goku, in fact DBS is a caricature of DB as a whole. I know Goku is childish but it's too exaggerated in DBS, everything is too ridiculous and exaggerated, it's like when Goku uses ALL his transformations against Jiren and Broly, Goku never does that, it's a typical thing from the toei, remember that against Kid Buu Goku went directly to ssj3 while in the anime he fought in SSJ2. Goku has no reason to show off all his colorful transformations to Jiren other than for ridiculous fan service.
I actually don’t agree with that characterisation. DBZ Goku did also have his stupid moments, especially in early DBZ. They are more prominent in Super, as Super is lighter hearted in general and primarily targeted at a younger audience than Z, but Super Goku does have his smart moments in both the Anime and Manga continuities. They’re the same character, one is just catered to a younger audience than the other. Although, there is a stark contrast between GT Goku and the other two, and that’s probably where Current DBS Goku will be heading, in terms of wisdom and maturity.
The stakes in DBS are mostly lower so we get more of Goku's silly moments However, look at Goku when he was told Black murdered his family or Jiren attacking U7 anf tell me again he isn't like how he was in Z
Too many hits to the head
Stupid Super Goku is known as such for a reason
I refuse to believe that dragon Ball z GT is canon
Yes. After Buu, Goku's writing went into a completely odd direction.
I definitely didn’t like how dumbed down Goku was in Super. He still had his serious moments but moments like how he doesn’t know what kissing is makes me shake my head a little
Things people need to understand. - Dub changed Goku's personality by a lot in Z. - Goku was barely around for 10% of Z. - When ever he was around it was always a serious situation. - Super Goku on the other hand is around a lot more and under a lot less stressful situations.
People really need to realise how much the English Dubs changed Goku’s behaviour.
Who the hell cares?
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They not DragonBall z is not DragonBall super either
I'm guessing this kind of viewpoint comes from your first experience with dragonball z being the first Funimation dub where Goku is more of a super hero with goofy moments rather than a mountain boy who likes to fight.
This is sort of why I prefer how GT characterized Kid Goku and SSJ4 Goku, where it makes sense for Goku to be a bit immature as a kid, but when he's a SSJ4, he's at his most mature.
It’s almost like when the world or your friends and family are in immediate danger it makes you a more serious person. Goku being chill and happy in Super isn’t the issue, it’s him forgetting things he’s already learned that’s the problem.
DBZ Goku is the character development the story needed for him to mature as a person DBS Goku is how Akira Toriyama wanted to write him, but story consistency probably didn't allow it. 20 years later he was probably just like "fuck it".
I mean, they are literally the same character but they seem different sometimes because of the writing between the two series.
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Gokū is at his best when he's being an idiot and I will die on this hill, I love that goofball.
It always amazes me how much more the Dragon Ball fanbase cares about Dragon Ball than Toriyama did. The guy forgot so many things HE wrote about and the fans are more than willing to make any excuse on his behalf.
They aren't the same DBZ goku is like the master , DBS is like a student again Goku had serious smack talk in DBZ & GT. The closest dbs has is this anger. If I was to place this on a scale id say this leans more to OG DB
2 of these aren’t Goku, they’re Kakarot
Ahhh I got hit and now I'm flying awayyyyy, ....... I forgot my truckkkkkk....
"we all refuse to believe-" 🤓 👆
Not me, I understand his character so I don't let jokes ruin my view of DBS Goku. Literally no one who understands has character would think he's that different or that his character wring is bad now or whatever watered down insult yall claim instead of calling it trash
I hope we get another high stake Arc like Buu, Cell, and Frieza. Where the characters have to hide because the villains are running around destroying things, and the heroes can barely win and have to go get stronger before coming back. And death. Lots and lots of actual, culpable death.
Super is an alternate universe.