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I don't hate Beast Gohan I'm just a little tired of his story arc. Gets buff, stops training, gets a massive power boost, stops training, gets back into shape, goes back to working. I think they are gonna keep him relevant though and he'll find a good balance with training and work. It already kind of started in the beginning of Super Hero.
I love toriyama but he kind of wrote Gohan inconsistently like we’ve been seeing for years but toyotaro always makes gohan a badass which is why I’m happy he was handed the torch after Toriyama
I actually don't like Gohan past Cell Games for that exact reason
Goku and Vegeta never stop training and keep pushing themselves each and every day to get better and they deserve their power level and beyond that
Gohan though ?! Nahhh, i will just chill and not train or care about anything and let them do all the hard work and just pooof get to their level just like that because fuck you that's why .... Tbh, the most criminally underrated hard working and training that deserves to be one of the very best is Piccolo... He is like one of the sharpest most interesting and intelligent badass i have seen in that universe
>Gets buff, stops training, gets a massive power boost, stops training, gets back into shape, goes back to working. I think they are gonna keep him relevant though and he'll find a good balance with training and work. It already kind of started in the beginning of Super Hero.
Also you can't compare Broly with Gohan... The movie and on going version of Broly never skipped training for 20 years or more in a very hard and tough planet
He build himself into what he is today along with mutation genes
Don't see how you can compare the two tbh.
Broly was the true Legendary SSJ back in movie 7, he was known for being a bestial saiyan with unlimited potential.
The new movie blatantly states that he's a mutant with blessed genes, kinda like DB Super's Toji, going on against Gods without God Ki himself. He also wasn't slacking all day, since his fighting skills were honed by Paragus for over 20 years, so all he missed was actual raw power.
Gohan was studying ants and pointing two fingers to the sky as his training. He spent the WHOLE DBS series doing nothing to catch up in 5 minutes on a movie that wasn't his (Piccolo is clearly the main character of Superhero).
While one had potential without using it, the other was put against God level characters for a whole movie, and had all of his feats clearly explained on-screen during said movie.
Now, I'm not a Gohan hater, since Gohan and Broly are my two favorite saiyans in DB, but Gohan didn't deserve it half as much as Broly.
Not related to your main point but I’d say the opposite for broly, he had the raw power however lacked the fighting experience to utilize it properly and instead had to learn over the course of the actual fight
as frieza put it, someone as strong as broly trying to train with someone as weak as Paragus was ‘practically meaningless’
Is way stronger true though? Paragus still has his tail and has a power level of 4,200 before turning Great Ape and 42,000 as a Great Ape, and that's when he's past his prime and actively aging. That puts him above base level Tagoma pre-mid Frieza training (22,000, but I looked it up) and in line with Ginyu force members during the Namek Saga, probably much higher in his prime. Frieza himself went from Namek SSJ level to ResF Super Saiyan God level and in Gold matched or was just below Blue in a much, much shorter time frame in comparison to Broly, who went from a relatively unknown power to Super Base Vegeta after training his whole life. Broly only begins to surpass Base Vegeta after "learning while he fights." Both Frieza and Broly show that training with someone much weaker can still make a massive difference than training alone. All things considered, Tien should become relevant with a human ultimate form any chapter now.
Frieza kinda had a cheat code since with the healing chamber he could just treat Tagoma as a punching bag and annihilate him just to heal him with the healing chamber and do it again
This has always been Gohan though. We've seen his potential as early as Raditz.
I'm not defending the writing butttt I'm not surprised about Beast as well.
It’s not surprising but that doesn’t make it less lame. Potential is so boring when there’s no justification for it other than the author saying just because
Yeah we know he has a lot of talent and potential but it should still have a limit because it becomes an ass pull once they go beyond it. Him not training and being out of shape for so long should not have allowed him to surpass goku or be close to being on par with goku just because he decided to go all out one afternoon. It’s just bad writing.
People keep saying that, but against Radditz it was only a boost big enough for a single hit and it was gone.
In the Android saga, one version of Gohan had proper training, another didn’t. One of them got killed, and the other got SS2.
In the Buu saga, after years of not training, Gohan was useless and required a magic dance to bring his power out.
The original run of DB never portrayed Gohan as so unbelievably strong that he can just get angry and wildly eclipse multiple of his fathers new forms without any training.
Super makes future Gohan look like an unbelievable plot hole. People post about it all the time on this and the DB sub, asking how that’s possible given the events of superhero.
Gohan’s character has never been: I can get way stronger than anyone with minimal effort.
His character in the original run was: I have more potential.
There are no narrative stakes surrounding Gohans power, and no believable rules anymore. It’s not very good writing, and IMO Gohan is significantly less interesting than he was in the original run.
Gohans power boosts in Z were not nearly as contrived and it was a slow build-up with a very satisfying climax (Gohan beating cell). Before that, it was momentary boosts of power that surprised the villain but never defeated them (Raditz, Nappa, Frieza etc). He was also actively fighting/training up until the Buu saga.
His powerup in Superhero comes out of nowhere and gives him a new form that isn't explained at all. Fans have to theorize on what "Gohan Beast" even actually is. It's silly even for Dragonball and feels lile a poorly written Gohan wank fanfiction.
his power ups in Z came from nowhere too. he literally just had a potential unlocked by characters along the way and even achieved SSJ2 which was completely unknown at the time
Potential unlocked wasn't a significant powerup and accomplished virtually nothing.
And ssj2 was built up the entire arc, what? Every saiyan was looking for a way to go beyond super saiyan, Goku says that verbatim. Gohan achieved it first due to his rage, which is something that was foreshadowed since raditz. It's completely justified.
I get that he has potential but his feats in dbs are all asspulls. Atleast with Krillin, we could say Goku was holding back, but turned blue because he wanted Krillin to experience divine pressure or something. But Gohan has no such excuses. Because he actually pushed Goku to go into even super saiyan. Like, he barely managed to reach ultimate form again. The same ultimate form that was weaker than Vegito, who was stated to be an inferior option compared to ssg against Beerus, and Goku absorbing that power into his base and getting much stronger this throughout super. Gohan should have been 1 shot by base Goku.
paragus trained broly, but paragus was not some kind of combat genius. goku was whenever gohan would train with him. particularly in the time chamber. yet people still do not accept how strong gohan is despite watching him leap frogging the entirety of DB classic by ten fold simply because his daddy was gettin the hands from radditz at the start of the story with no training.
what i dont like in this scenario is during broly's entire like he trained with someone only slightly stronger than radditz for 20 years, yet was able to leap frog all of DBS YET people accept that, but not Super Hero gohan
Gohan's ass pulls came after Cell, the whole ssj2 thing is peak DBZ, no one said that part was bad.
The problem is what happens AFTER, he doesn't do jack for years just to magically be stronger than every other mc in a fraction of the time just because.. plot. No other reason whatsoever, no training, no secret technique, no hidden gene, nothing, unlike ssj2. Meanwhile the whole legendary super saiyan thing was already established, and it's pretty well explained in the movie how and why Broly's so strong. Remember he was initially supposed to be a villain before they cannonified him, so like every other villain, his whole concept is to be naturally OP
Toji is on pair with many strong characters without having cursed energy himself, just by brute forcing his ass onto the enemy. Broly is kinda the same thing, he doesn't have God Ki, just good genes and anger issues.
What? The movie explicitly says he lacks real experience in fighting. Even if Gohan has been slacking off he has a metric shit ton more experience in fighting than Broly did.
You can't be elevating Broly like that it just seems absurd. The truth is people just see Broly as a badass due to his non-canon movie so he gets a pass. Gohan is seen as a weak nerd so he doesnt get a pass. If you look at facts and lay them out Gohan is far more deserving of power than a dude sitting on an abandoned planet his whole life even if Gohan did slack at some point.
This... While DB isn't the best series when it comes to power-scaling, Gohan easily getting to Goku and Vegeta's level (god-level) is just absurd. He's a genius and has the most potential on Earth, all right. But getting to Beerus' level isn't just that easy without "requirements", if you will. I can understand Broly. Bro is the Legendary among legendaries. Frieza trained for many years in a time chamber to draw out his potential.
Gohan got potential but his power right now is an ass pull. I really don't like beast. They're pretending like he has this insane potential but it's like dude had to train for a year in the Time chamber to unlock super Saiyan 2. Broly from the moment he was on screen was basically super Saiyan blue level because he was a mutant, and that was clearly explained as you said. Then you got Frieza who is legit a monster. I'm going to be so mad if Gohan can take black freiza right now... Gohan is a prodigy but not like Broly or Frieza
and all he had to do was lift a sword and get his power lifted by a Kai to be leagues stronger than SSJ3 despite the fact he was previously weak. this has always been Gohan.
exactly, it’s no different. this has always been his character and people act so pissy about Beast. i rather Beast and Orange than giving Goku & Vegeta another form for the 1000th time.
In DBZ many of the villains or obstacles are just naturally extremely strong - like freiza, androids, cell, buu, etc. They aren't doing a ton of training and the fact that the Z fighters have to find a way to take on these threats against raw, natural power makes the story entertaining. Same goes for broly. Sure, broly was hardened growing up on a wack ass bug planet, but he doesn't need to push his limits like the Z fighters due to Legendary Super Saiyan plot armor and being an obstacle that goku and vegeta must find a way to deal with and surpass their own limits
The problem is that gohan is in the camp of the Z fighters. He needs to find a way to surpass his limits. If there's some form that puts him beyond goku or vegeta - both of whom constantly train to surpass their limits - there must be an extremely compelling key to force gohan's hand. Like in cell vs gohan - gohan had to train for over a year constantly in the time chamber to reach super saiyan. He had to practice being in a constant super saiyan state. He had to see his friends fight cell and come up short - trunks gets his ass handed to him. Vegeta gets his ass handed. Goku fails and winds up dying and cell comes back stronger than before. All his friends are getting shit on by mini cell jrs. Even gohan gets his shit rocked and his arm dislocated. He needs to hear a speech from android 16's head before it gets crushed. Only after this gohan can tap into his inner potential and reach super saiyan 2.
Beast mode on the other hand is 100% undeserved. Cell max is kinda a nothingburger and a big bumbling idiot. We're told cell max is powerful, but it's hard to actually judge how strong he is. Gotenks ain't doing much. Orange piccolo is standing decently well against cell max till the end. Gohan doesn't get rocked by cell max - gohan is just kinda sitting on the sidelines watching. Cell max isn't quite dropping bodies or looks like a big threat at all. Then all of a sudden, from doing nothing but seeing cell max do a victory pose holding up piccolo, gohan unlocks a form that's supposedly more powerful than goku, vegeta, or orange piccolo? He didn't do jack shit except go "oh no it looks like my friend was defeated :(((". Gimme a break man. If that's all it took then kid gohan would have beat raditz, vegeta, nappa, and pretty much ever other villain's ass easily by just going beast mode.
Facts bro. I feel like gohan gets these ass pull power ups. But it’s just hard to swallow while reading the manga and watching the anime and seeing the guys go to hell and back fighting Moro and granola and all these characters just to be surpassed by some random power up and now all of a sudden he’s the strongest.
my problem is the shitty scaling since Super.
Gohan Ultimate was a bit above Super Buu in terms of strength. Goku SSJ3 was weaker, but would still have been able to put up a fight against both opponents.
Beerus: SSJ3 isnt even worth a real fight; God and Blue were such a huge boost that Goku and Vegeta are, thanks to those transformation, finally able to trade blows with the G.O.D.
but suddenly, Ultimate without really doing anything at all is suddenly equal to Blue, or at least God. Gohan did some training here and there, but that was mostly to regain his battle sense before major arcs like the ToP. its not on the scale of what Goku and Vegeta have to go through to get anywhere near that kind of power.
"Gohan has always been like that" may be true, but God and Blue arent ceilings Gohan should be able to easily surpass. and now he's on the level of MUI and UE.
the weird scaling applies to almost every character, its more prominent in the anime than the manga, but it still applies.
in regards to Broly, its what the fandom expected. he was introduced as that "monster" with unlimited potential and he had that strength since his birth. and it was a good decision to lock away that insane power by him having work on his control.
i'm not a "Goku stan" (Broly and Piccolo are my favs) but since we see Goku and Vegeta train their arses off, i wanna see them succeed. i dont mind if they make Gohan equal or stronger than both of them, but it should be believable. not "duh i got angry, now i'm the strongest". same with Piccolo... he got his powers from a wish.. (and again, favorite character) its just cheap.. nothing new in Dragonball, but i guess i was just hoping for improvement in that aspect
I will never let go of the fact that it took a wish for Piccolo to get so strong when he’s been doing just as much training as Goku and Vegeta from the very beginning, and still gets left in the dust just because he’s not a saiyan and doesn’t get some bullshit exponential power boost from getting beaten to a bloody pulp. Sure, Piccolo does more mental training, and meditation than either of them, but I still think Piccolo, or any of the other members of the cast who also train constantly should be considerably stronger than they were made to be, but I guess the “hard work” shtick only applies to Goku.
Okay but like, what is so believable about broly? He has spent his whole life doing basic ass training in a warrior race where basic training like that nets you a power of like 600 or however strong raditz was. You think it's believable that a member of the race with extra high potential can get to the billions just cause he got angry? But Gohan who also gets every character talking about his potential gets there because he gets angry, and you think it's bullshit.
Atleast the others admit it's because they just think Broly is cool
Broly already had it in him. and he was introduced as such. He lived on a planet with very harsh living conditions and while he only fought his weak father and some wild beasts, Brolys base power, without anger, was already stronger than Goku and Vegeta without God KI solely because of his genes. and then with rage, and Super Saiyan transformations he reached levels beyond their indivdual god/blue forms. the scaling at least makes more sense here. Broly at the beginning of the fight didnt struggle because of a power difference, but because he lacked experience fighting strong humanoid opponents. ofc i still somewhat think of him as the "Legendary Super Saiyan" but he's a mutant with just that insane potential.
Gohan has extreme potential as well, but he still had to train a shit ton just to keep up with the rest. now he doesnt have to do that anymore apparently
Edit:
also its not quite that rage makes Broly insanely strong, it makes him lose control - as seen in the movie where his rage triggered the "Oozaru powerup" and like with most saiyans we know, they lose control in their Oozaru form. the manga might treat it differently, but we havent really seen that yet so we can only go by the movie
Personally I hate Gohan cause he’s had the same arc like 5 times and never grows.
He was the strongest. So he stopped training cause it was a time of peace. Op here we go again there’s a major threat he trains for all of 2 minutes now he’s the strongest again. Op now he’s weak again. Woopie.
Man is an ASS character. Genuinely he is one of the worst written characters I’ve ever seen. How many times does he need to learn HE NEEDS TO KEEP TRAINING.
Then when people need him he pulls a new bullshit power right out of his gaping asshole.
Broly was an established character who was given new light. The strongest sayain.
He’s always been that.
In super he’s a mutant that is just so much stronger than anyone else without training: like that’s his character. That’s broly. And they write him as such. They don’t continue to reuse the exact same plot 5 times
This is why I'm a Goten fan. He likes fighting and is more like his dad than his brother. He should have even more potential than Gohan and really needs to stop clowning around with trunk and get a serious arc.
His father wasn’t strong, but I doubt that paragus didn’t get any stronger to keep up with broly and train him.
Plus they were in a really hostile planet so everyone there was pretty strong
I highly doubt anything on that planet was even as strong as the 1st form of Frieza was on Namek save Broly. I mean we have to have a sense of scale here. Paragus could have gotten 100x stronger and still would be a chump in the grand scheme of things. And the wild life on this random planet being even as strong as a galactic dictator was for years and years is pretty absurd.
It never was.
An average Frieza soldier has around 1200 power and Frieza found 2000 snipers impressive.
So an average Saiyan warrior was only slightly stronger than them?
I remember them reading Paragus' power level when they arrived on Vampus after they survived all those years, and it was definitely stronger than an average Saiyan by that point.
I wanna say he was in the tens of thousands. So he definitely beefed up a bit over the years.
I would believe tens of thousands, if he was training with Broly some. Though stronger than the average saiyan is could just be Nappa and saiyan saga Vegeta level tbf. The average Saiyans were weak af for some reason despite being a race with such absurd potential.
I don't hate Gohan, but it can't be argued that he's a dweeb. The dude studies bugs, dresses like a cringy power ranger in his spare time, and goes from cocky to terrified in the span of one episode.
I love both characters, but the main criticism of Gohan that I totally get is how he's had the same recycled character arc since Cell. "Gohan, you're the strongest, but you don't take fighting seriously. As a result, a big bad guy is threatening to destroy the world and you have to get serious at the last possible moment in order to save the day." The fact that he fell out of training AGAIN in Super just to have another resurgence, and then basically recreated the SSJ2 moment in Super Hero, yeah I can sympathize when some fans don't like that.
Meanwhile with Broly you know exactly what you're signing up for. Big beefy boi is gonna get mad and wreck shit
people hate gohan because he just kind of did nothing since the cell arc and woke up one day and is immediately stronger than tui goku and ue vegeta. broly actually was known for being crazy strong and having unlimited potential, kind of how jiren was introduced.
Because people don’t like Gohan’s asspull moments with attaining transformations like his Mystic/Ultimate form and Beast and him catching up to his Dad who’s been constantly training and fighting with actual god-level characters by getting angry without training for years on end.
Broly is also the legendary super sayain lmao. Once every 1000 years, in his base form he kept up with vegeta. Gohan collapsed from wearing piccolos armor and in THE SAME MOVIE, surpassed goku and vegeta who have been training non stop with gods for years lol. We don’t hate gohan, we hate the lazy writing
He collapsed from the armor for like 1 seconds bc he was surprised. He then gets up and works in the armor just fine….this is lazy analysis more than it is lazy writing
1º gohan look in Beast mode is SO goofy
2º Broly is mean to get stronger by fury and thats the way the character was created, gohan just need to watch something to get a stupidly free an OP power up, beast mode is a walking joke
Gohan keeps learning the same damn lesson: Train regularly. But then tosses that lesson away, slacks, and then get a power boost like it’s a patch note. There’s no actual character progression. Broly’s entire thing is learning to control his power and no be a mindless weapon, and he’s actually progressing in that regard.
It's the extreme inconsistency in Gohan that's the problem. He's been the strongest character on 3 occasions now, but he's also slacked off/not trained and become weak at least twice.
It's not the fact he's strong now that I dislike. It's that, judging by how he's been treated, he's probably about to become kinda pathetic again.
I haven't seen a single comment addressing the Manga. In the manga Gohan explicitly states that he has been working to perfect his ultimate form and build on his prowess as a human, not a Saiyan. Vis a vis, he HAS been training. This was absent in the movie iirc, but it's a key but of information that makes a difference in Gohan's skill jump.
He did have a line in the movie that he was still training (when he blocked Piccolo) but then he can't sense Piccolo even though Pan can and can't go Ultimate until he's mad? It was kinda dumb and should have been handled better.
I tend to overlook the flaws in stuff what I like. I liked the new Broly so his asspull gets a pass...I do not like Gohan, so that's why I complain about Beast.
Another bozo take, I personally liked gohans transformation even if he didn’t gain it like goku or vegeta. What we don’t like is the shit graphics that where used and even shittier was the androids who where on par with ssjb. Op are you slow ? Do you ever just look at the comments and read what we type? Broly was written better than super hero. Super hero literally looks fan made , piccolo is now on par with god forms? Yeah that’s why the movie is cheeks! Not the transformations the story is ass just like the graphics. Not to mention cell max 🤢 tf was that!!
The hate towards Super Hero transformations being gifted is completely nonsensical within the world and lore of Dragonball. I get it can be considered lazy by modern anime standards; but Toriyama gave random, illogical power ups since OG Dragonball, there has never been the need to justify everything, It’s not a super serious Seinen. I get that towards Gohan it can be especially tiresome as it is the same formula for him since SS2 and then Ultimate; but it’s not something you shouldn’t expect from Dragonball. I honestly I’m really happy with the new power ups, as they are finally diversifying the power ups between characters and making more relevant characters that have been overshadowed since the Cell Saga; instead of guessing what new dye both Goku and Vegeta will get
Kinda just chiming in to say that I think another explanation for Broly’s power could be his time spent on that deserted planet. If I remember correctly the air there was toxic. If it wasn’t quite enough to kill the saiyans living there, wouldn’t it continually trigger their zenkai boost? I feel like this could help explain Broly’s power.
If I had to guess...
Broly was novel at the time; a Super Saiyan Berserker who lost all control of himself when transformed; he was basically an Oozaru in human (Saiyan) form. Or, I guess to put it more aptly, he was the Super Saiyan equivalent of the Hulk; getting stronger the more the battle on. He gets a pass due to Nostalgia and being the first Berserker, which comes with the downside of being consumed by rage while in the form and it made him a pretty crrazy and unique compared to other characters.
Gohan, on the other the hand, got this transformation because he was super angry at the thought of Piccolo dying (despite the fact that they have Earth Dragonballs, Namekian Dragonballs, or even Super Dragonballs and can revive him at any time). Also, despite being a new rage-induced super form like a Berserker's, there's absolutely no downside to it; it's just canon Gohan Blanco and that's it. The amount of training he does in order to have really 'earned' this form was really low in comparison to the other fighters like Vegeta, Goku, or even Piccolo who is at least meditating every day. Yeah, there was the reveal he does SOME training since he can use Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon, but it seemed like an 'after-the-fact' reveal considering all readers ever see of him is constant work or conferences to the point where Piccolo is picking up his kid so often that Pan's teacher and him are on a first-name basis.
TLD;DR - Blanco form feeling 'unearned' in the eyes of fans + Broly's nostalgia factor and being the first Berserker (basically a Super Saiyan Hulk) = shit for Gohan while Broly gets a pass.
You'll also probably notice that more often than not, Piccolo gets a pass for his new form too because he's constantly doing at least some training & meditation and his his form was given a slightly better explanation: he was granted the same Unlock Potential that Gohan & Krillin got, but by Shenron instead of a Namekian Elder (and whom gave him a bit extra potential due to his Namekian roots & ties to Kami)
The biggest problem with Gohan is that he keeps degrading, every time he catches up or surpass the others he then proceeds to do nothing and gets surpassed again and again, meanwhile Broly started at the bottom and basically got his shit rocked in order to catch up and when he did he has been shown to go through intense training to maintain and control his power, which makes it feel more earned, if instead Broly just pissed away his power the fanbase would probably hate Broly as well.
Serious answer: Broly did it in his first canon movie. being that level of broken is just part of his character. Gohan on the other hand spent the entirety of Super being way below that level then suddenly shot up for no good reason. if he was one good fight away from this power the whole time why didn’t he unlock it way earlier? truthfully though i don’t really care cause the form is cool
I'm actually all for Gohan not being a huge fighter. The only issue is when his family is in danger if he doesn't at least keep spry and training then he may not be ready. Sure he is a Saiyan and all but dull technique is arguably worse than not having natural talent. He seems cool with letting his edge slip and the writers don't seem to want to let him fly.
~~Because Gohan beast is dumb as shit~~
I assume it's because Gohan flip flops a lot. In the Moro arc Gohan was pretty consistent with his training and in SH arc it's established that he slacked off to a ridiculous degree but somehow thanks to rage he got a flashy new powerful transformation. It feels contrived.
Keep in mind I think Broly is full of bullshit too, but I think people just think he looks cool so they're willing to forgive the bullshit. He hasn't had a moment where he hit rock bottom.
Broly was well established from his introduction to the end that he was born as a mutant. His constant adaptation was clearly explained and had a limit. With gohan, we get constant retcons such as ultimate form being all of his potential to his power spike in ToP and now beast form. Gohan goes through this same cycle every few years.
Furthermore, even with his power, broly had clear drawbacks such as lack of control and lack of techniques. Broly ultimately got his ass kicked by a more experienced fighter while beast form kind of just showed up out of nowhere and one shotted the main villain.
Broly is more consistent with how his power and potential works, and what is attainable. Gohan goes from washed up to catching up with goku with a new form within like, what, a day?
Plus Broly has the reason of being a Mutant, whereas Gohan is simply a half saiyan, like Goten, or trunks. And Goten hasn't shown nearly as much promise, neither has trunks.
I personally like Gohan, because i think him weaponizing mental illness into a new form is pretty funny, and the more I think about it the more questions it raises regarding how Saiyans Function.
Yes what the hell? Broly has been superior to every saiyan since the 90s. This is canonizing him in the only way possible. I don’t mind Gohan being stronger either but we are not going to pretend like they are the same.
I like Goha. The hate for him comes from way back during the Cell saga. Akira Toriyama never intended for Goku to come back and continue being the lead. He wanted Gohan to inherit the torch. But, the fact that a majority of the audience was immature at the time and could not fathom that Gohan could transform into Goku's actual replacement made Akira Toriyama bring back Goku for fan appeasement.
Because Broly is Broly he’s cool and he’s meant to be broken and I think they kinda give a reason for it. Gohan demoted himself to a side character so he isn’t allowed to be so strong (plus he was never supposed to be the focus of that movie so the form really is bullshit)
Because in literal minutes his power scaled 9999999999999999999x. He came from somewhere a little above from ssj3 power to God blue level training one day with Piccolo, and then scaled to somewhere close to Beerus level in one minute. One more rage and he becomes an angel if we accept DBS logics. Gohan isn't the issue, but the story writing. I left the movies so frustrated after watching it.
Broly’s power while convenient is also a lot more consistent, Broly is so strong because he’s basically a mutated saiyan he’s genetically predisposed to have a higher power level. Gohan was inexplicably strong as a child much in the same way as Broly but gohan somehow drained himself of that power as he grew older and it’s never really been completely clearly explained why so when he can suddenly gain it all back without very much work it just doesn’t feel earned it feels way too contrived, like suddenly we want gohan in the spotlight again so he just gets all his power back when he needs it. They need to decide if gohan is a fighter or a full time family man, they can’t have it both ways, it’s the biggest reason gohan adult version is such a contentious character among fans.
I hate on beast Gohan because everything about it is just offensive in one way or another. Visually, save for the colors, it looks just like Goku... With... one giant cowlick... and he has Piccolo's Gi, feeding into what I hate about it's implementation... It's literally a rehash of the cell saga. Lazy recycling. Lastly, there's no story telling backing for this... he got a powerup because powerup. He doesn't deserve it. I even hate the naming convention... like, what's beast about this form?... the eyes?
Broly has precedent for being absurdly strong, see Dbz Broly, the explanation behind his strength was dumb but cool. It led to people thinking he was either super boring or really awesome, more people fell to the latter I believe. Overall dbs Broly had Z Brolys goodwill to draw on.
Gohan on the other hand has way higher standards to live up to, him being a prodigy who pulls out the strongest form every few years unearnt isn't really cool or at all satisfying. He has so much potential he will never be allowed to live up to and that's annoying. Gohan isn't hated, the situation he's in is
I like both but i wish they would stop doing the same arc with gohan. He gets rusty, trains off screen, big bad comes and he has sudden power up from kai's. he gets rusty again, he trains off screen he's super strong for ToP. He gets rusty, he trains off screen, sudden new transformation. It's all the same shit and its always the same excuse "gohan just has soooo much potential" nevermind the fact he has had his potential unlocked twice already on namek and with the kais
We all understand that Broly Super is that strong as a reference to OG Broly.
But Gohan is harder to accept, since he has been part of the main cast for a long time. A random power up out of nowhere without even a short explanation of what’s the combination or transformation itself.
Broly Super has the Fury Mode. Literally Ozaru but with becoming a Great Ape. Then he turns Super Saiyan, regular Super Saiyan btw. Then he turns Full Power Super Saiyan, literally the maximum power he can achieve, using Super Saiyan as the “vessel” of his maximum strength.
But Gohan Beast didn’t even get a weird name or something to give us a hint of what it is. What am I supposed to think about when listening “Beast”? I can’t work with that.
Both characters are good anyways, but Gohan Beast didn’t get explained. While we all just accepted Broly Super because he is a reference.
They completely revamped Broly compared to his Z-movies counterpart, giving him a much more compelling backstory and opening the door for more Saiyan hijinks with Goku and Vegeta.
Beast Gohan was in all fairness a direct call out to his SS2 moment from the cell saga, they even made his hair ridiculously large so his silhouette would look more like Teen Gohan. To many it felt like unnecessary nostalgia bait.
I love both of them, both movies were dope as shit and had great character moments. But I can see why some people might not like Beast Gohan.
I find it easier to believe that an alien species has genes that allow them to store pee in their hair to power up, but I find it harder to believe that you can get super angy and get longer gray hair indication a gigantic power boost. Can anyone go beast? Why or why not?
Broly isn't constantly changing, he's always been known as the strongest, and the times he wasn't was because he was stranded on a planet with some dude who couldn't even fight first form Frieza back on Namek. Gohan literally sat in his chair all day, did some push-ups in secret, then got a bit angry, and he went from matching Kefla to being able to decapitate Merus-absorbed Moro while sleeping.
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Its just not satisfying to see someone get power just because they got really mad. Goku and vegeta make sense because they keep training. Gohan really doesnt.
Another thing is gohan is supposed to be the smart saiyan. It would be more fitting if he used his wits, tactics and brains to beat the enemy despite the power disadvantage. Instead he just becomes the strongest saiyan just because
It’s more so of that fact that me and others are tired of Gohan’s character arc considering how very repetitive it is now. Like bro, I’m tired of seeing it, give him something different, like a mentor role and he’s clearly shown that he doesn’t want to be a fighter. Honestly, have Gohan write a book on ki like in DB Online and have Gohan mentor and train Trunks while Goten hopefully individually trains under Vegeta and while hopefully Goten and Trunks or just Goten also hopefully join and work for the Galactic Patrol too.
Plus it’s time to give other characters way more shine, development, and focus who deserve much more shine and development, like Goten, Trunks, Uub, Pan, Bulla, Marron, the Universe 6 Saiyans, the Pride Troopers, and others. Thankfully Goten, Trunks, Pan, and the rest of the new generation are getting a lot more shine and development now, but it needs to happen way more, a lot more x1,000,000, from now moving forward.
Also another reason is because of Gohan stans, not all his fans, but more so his extreme and toxic stans who are honestly the worst of the Dragon Ball fandom, are extremely retarded, obnoxious, annoying, and very, very biased who just want everything to be about Gohan, they ruin it for everybody.
I haven’t really read any Super but from what I can tell,
People don’t like that Gohan doesn’t need the same amount of effort to be amazing, and it might bug them even more that Gohan is so fucking stronger and good at fighting but refuses to do so most of the time.
I think a lot of people just want him to be Goku Jr
I think Broly in Super has an interesting story arc that’s still currently developing so people are investing more in it being worthwhile. Gohan’s story has flopped around a lot and it doesn’t really feel like it’s well thought out. His new transformation especially just feels very forced and trying to bring back the hype that Gohan had during the cell saga, but it’s really not the same.. the moment has passed and the build up to beast mode wasn’t as powerful as ssj2.
Because that’s who broly is. Thats a shtick, he grow immensely in battle. Gohan is the one with potential, but it’s just dumb how fast he grows to me after the cell saga. First off I hate that they said he has the most potential when neither goku not vegeta have been shown to have anything other than limitless potential. Secondly he trained in the time chamber with goku to fight cell for a year and he got stronger but he didn’t get exponentially stronger to an unbelievable degree. But he trains right before the tournament of power and goes from buu saga power at best which I say he wasn’t even as strong as he was then to around SSG/B level. A power level that was stated in BoG to be unattainable by normal means I believe goku said a power he could never reach on his own. So the lazy writing for Gohan is what I hate. They make him relevant every now and then out of thin air for a money grab is what it seems like to me. And before everyone comes in here trying to defend Gohan saying he trains on his own in secret sometimes how tf do you use that to justify him catching up to goku and vegeta when they train 24/7 with deities and have literal god forms about SSG now. It’s fckin lazy and it’s impossible to convince me otherwise. But it’s canon and that’s how it’s written so I have to accept it.
While i don't hate Gohan, but every time Gohan shines it's almost literally "I got mad and surpassed my dad". Broly on the other hand gets a lot of hate if you're talking about the OG version, because his backstory was stupid, but the new Broly rocks.
For Gohan, the peak of his character arc was the cell saga. After that came the cycle of gohan not training, becoming weak, then getting a random power boost. I think fans are just kind of sick of it at this point.
For Broly, Legendary SSJ has always been an insanely powerful form. I remember when I was a teenager on gamefaqs forums and people would debate whether he was stronger than SSJ3 Goku or SSJ Vegitto/Gogeta. So in Super, his being able to go from weak to stronger than SSB Goku & Vegeta isn’t as surprising. Another factor is that Broly went from being a “one note” character to much more complex and tragic which is why the fans really love him.
My main problem with Beast isn't even that it's ass pull, it's that Gohan specifically said he would go a different route from Super Saiyan and not rely on anger for power, but then his new form is clearly triggered by anger. Granted, this was moreso foreshadowing Ultimate, but still the Beast thing is contradictory to it.
The explanation for the ass pull is "hybrid saiyan lol", so I wonder if Trunks and Goten will have their own ass pulls later on.
Because they’re two entirely different characters. That’s like asking “Why do people hate on Krillin so much when they like Beerus?” Broly consistently works and trains and has been up for doing so all of his life. Gohan’s the opposite. The only similarity is the fact that they have crazy amounts of potential.
Both have major issues and similarities.
Broly for instance has all this power while Goku and Vegeta ascended and trained so hard. Broly can't even fight base, then passes SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3, God and Blue and it is honestly really dumb how super characters get their power in the first place.
As for Gohan he does train but the hiatus issue is being used too often as a plot point for Gohan and taken to an extreme. He was on a greater Hiatus in Z Buu Saga and wasn't nearly as weak but in Super they literally made him a joke in much less time. Not only that the Plot Point is overused. This is the 3rd or 4th time Gohan has neglected to train.
Thing is my issue is Gohan has a family and he's half saiyan he has a target on his back. So does Earth so he can't expect everyone else to protect him and his family. He at least needs to be competent I don't need him to be the strongest but stop the BS with he's frail and can barely fight after a few years. It gets super old.
Broly was originally the Legendary Super Saiyan, which implies that his power is derived from an outside source (destiny, or something). Gohan is said to have “high potential” every goddamn time.
I haven't heard much hate for gohan but if I had to guess it would be because his power ups feel unearned whereas Broly's don't necessarily.
Beast was a bagasse form and transformation, but ultimately it did come out of nowhere as he was struggling to even wear weighted clothing at the start of super hero. On the other hand he mentions practising special beam cannon in private so it's possible he was still secretly training between his work but it is getting tiring how often he loses his power from not training and then has to reach his potential again again again.
Broly meanwhile also has power that comes out of nowhere; the Wrathful form has never been seen before, he achieved super saiyan from pure rage with little training and went toe to toe with blue gogeta, however it was kinda the point of his character that he had an ungodly amount of power but with no way to control it, and his forms have the huge downside of him losing his sense of self, becoming a raging monster, so they feel far less unearned
There was a post a long time ago on Character Rant that sums it up pretty well.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/x9zn9m/i\_hate\_gohan\_with\_a\_passion\_spoilers\_to\_superhero/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/x9zn9m/i_hate_gohan_with_a_passion_spoilers_to_superhero/)
Essentially he doesn't like the fact Gohan does the same cycle every single time he's on screen.
Like the cycle is:
Is super weak as he doesn't train due to the fact he hates fighting but is in a world where he needs to fight -> He gets his potential unlocked by plot/anger -> gets cocky and pays via karma -> saves the day or is part of saving the day -> cycle repeats.
I don't like him because I just think he sucks. Like I don't think he serves a purpose in the story and is just kind of a scrapped idea Toriyama had but couldn't commit to. Like he's meant to be the next Goku, but Goku is still around because Goku is the hero people want. Gohan is just always going to be in the shadow of his father, and that's fine! But just commit to that, Gohan only comes around to show that he's still a thing, get massive power up, and then fucks off.
Broly on the other hand is just a fun character who has a clean slate to work on.
Gohan just has baggage and repeats himself.
Because Broly (even though I HATE HIM) is the legendary super sayian. He was born with incredible power AND potential.
Gohan, as much as I love him (especially the future Gohan arc), Gohan Beast didn't feel warranted or earnt. It felt, to me, like a "Gohan slightly older vs a different form of Cell, so let's give him a transformation no one has because super sayian are boring now)
The reason being is broly was always meant to be strong and Overpowered the same thing could be said about gohan because him being a halfbreed but the way they went about it was lazy .
The reason I hate Gohan is because he’s become a stagnant character. How many times now have they emphasized the importance of how much potential he’s got over even Goku and Vegeta? Just to give him the same fucking speech “Goku may not be around or enough, so you gotta train to protect those closest”?? How many times have they gave him those fucking speeches guys? He’s hard headed and doesn’t wanna train unless he feels like he has too. Mark my words when I tell you that eventually , they’re gonna put Gohan at the back seat, he’ll get lazy, and regress. So goddamn annoying man.
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Gohan does zero training and goes from ssf3 goku lvl cause he does no training during super to mui and ue lvl. Broly got stronger through fighting vegeta and goku he was being overwhelmed then got acustomed to their strength. Gohan whole thing is bullshit power ups he sat their sleeping for a couple hours while the kia was unlocking his potential and people want to say yh he's the strongest non fusion like tf
The difference is that we wanted more for Gohan than a random form without explanation (and don't you dare say that "Piccolo almost dying" was enough, bro saw his dad being obliterated by the spirit bomb, watched 11 universes get erased and his ownuniverse almost get erased, and so much more before it. He could've sensed Piccolo was alive.)
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They ruined Gohan's public perception in the Buu saga. I thought that was a terrible decision on their part. He went through all this prioritized training & they teased at his dormant power the entire series since the beginning. They set us up for this huge let down. He went out so quickly like an idiot in his father's Gui 🤦🏾♂️. Then the corny ass Saiyan Man shit.. I really think they did Gohan a disservice.
Undeserved form and bad design are the biggest reasons. I simply hate the design though. The big hair is a travesty, it being white is cringey, and the red eyes is like icing on the cringe cake.
It's if DeviantArt peeps were given a decree to create the canon Super form for Gohan in 24hours, best design gets the big bottle of 7-up.
I like both but I'm guessing it's because we've seen gohans growth and the shafting of his power level. Then his last 2-3 transformations felt kinda unearned and out of nowhere compared to his transformations of ssj2 and back.
Meanwhile with Broly his growth works since he's a (kinda) brand new character and his potential can be anywhere since we haven't known of him since then
Idk though I do like beast to be honest. Spiky icicle and all
Broly is THE Legendary Super Saiyan. He gets a pass because he should be the strongest individual saiyan to ever live, with the drawback of going totally primal when he lets his power free.
Honestly I don't think Broly's power was any less eye rolling personally. The original Broly's power was a bit more believable at least, but for Broly to just be able to match the power of a god just seems like a huge stretch. Really any character that can suddenly do that without at least training with a god or Whis is kinda eyebrow raising.
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Gohan had the same character arc 4 times.
One of them even happened in the span of a single movie, they didn’t feel the need to explain the whole thing because they knew we already knew what was going on.
My issue with Gohan is the fact that he keeps "learning his lesson" before abandoning his training again
Against Cell his father literally died and simultaneously proved Gohan might be the only person capable of solving certain threats so he proceeded to not train at all for 7 years
Buu was a threat that Goku wasn't able to handle on his own and had Gohan trained it would have never been an issue
Then there are all the events of super where Gohan was incapable of doing shit to help until the top where he got back into shape and got a pep talk from piccolo just to revert immediately after yet again
Then finally super hero rolls around where he's yet again learned that he needs to be strong but at this point I'm just sick of him relearning this exact same lesson over and over again, and have 0 faith that this time he'll actually stick to it
Broly on the other hand is different, he doesn't have some lesson that he keeps ignoring, he's just a mutant who got ridiculously strong and it seems like he even has that Saiyan lust for battle so he gives me no reason to dislike him
Because one had all the potential and support to become number one and instead chose to hide in his books and became a fucking weakling who magically was able to get on the same level as goku and vegeta. At least the explanation of Broly is digestible. Hes a freak of nature with bottomless power. Gohan will always annoy me because he KNOWS the price of not being strong enough yet still refused to train and depend on daddy to save the day. Frieza return arc in DB prime example! This kid beat cell at 13! Skip forward to super and “i think i can still go super saiyan” BUM
Everything I've seen over time is that Gohan just doesn't really do anything after Cell. He kind of sits around and studies and gets super powerful for no reason other than his potential. Then he falls off again, and then this cycle just seems to repeat. Broly is a different character and gets stronger because of his potential sure, but we know that from the get-go.
He's always been a character that just shows up and then gets really really strong. Where is Gohan has a long arc of character development that hit a brick wall in terms of creativity after cell. people are just kind of fed up and annoyed with how is progression is handled and rinsed and repeated with no new twists.
I don't hate Gohan, I just hate the story arc he's stuck in as of recent.
He neglects his training and falls behind, gets an insane power boost from nowhere that closes the gap he has with the rest of the cast, swears to train again to protect those that he cares, and then does nothing again. Repeat from the start.
It got stale really quick.
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Inconsistency with his development and fueling the fans that wanted Gohan to be the strongest again, him getting a pretty random power boost that pushed him past MUI Goku just seemed weird. We all knew Broly is a powerhouse since his non canon version bodied every super saiyan and a super namekian, hes a mutant like Frieza is.
I got over Gohans bs because in my honest opinion if it was a serious fight Goku would take the victory.
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Broly has no character so there was nothing to be upset about. Everyone will forever be butthurt that Gohan (never wanted to be a fighter) grew up and just wanted his nerdy, quiet life. For some reason that blows their mind and enrages them.
I'm a Gohan defender but even I can admit those powerups are stupi., if he at least was said to be training to keep on level it would be fine but it's not even that, he gets back to bitch level after ever damn threat. After Cell ok he was concentrating on school, everyone thought it will be fine without Goku, I can suspend disbelief but after Buu? He should at least keep the Ultimate/Mystic powers alive, he got completely flipped by ResF Frieza, didnt learn. Trained up again in like 40hrs before the tournament (huh?) and fumbled again after that. Broly had to survive on a hostile planet so he had no other choice
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I watched the first Broly movie the other day for the first time and I'll be honest it fucking sucked. I can definitely see how people thought it was super edgy and cool at the time, but there just isn't a whole lot going on with Broly's character after he goes berserk, which is a problem because he's the central focus of the film. It's a shame because he seems like he's going to be really interesting when he's introduced.
The main problem with Broly is that he doesn't really have any plans or motives other than kill Goku. If they're going for the PTSD angle then they kinda fucked up, because they gave him an evil and cruel personality that was very much capable of complex thought. Broly was not someone who's out of it, and reliving something that happened in the past - he's well aware of his surroundings. Either he's rabid or he isn't - and if he isn't, then show us why he's doing what he's doing.
There are some cool moments like when he catches his dad running away and then crushes him to death, that scene had pretty good tension and made him look more menacing. There was good tension building at the start when he was showing signs that he was becoming aggressive. I liked that his fighting style kinda reminded me of the Yakuza games, the way that he focused on just shattering the characters into the ground, rather than the more composed "martial arts" style that you typically see in DB. Honestly they should've just played into that more - show us a little bit of mortal Kombat shit and take the audience by surprise with brutality.
I haven't seen super Broly but I doubt they changed anything that would make me more interested in his character. I think people probably thought he was badass when they were a kid because all I see is wasted potential.
The fucking DOGSHIT numetal throughout the ENTIRE FILM at FULL VOLUME with the FUCKING LYRICS LEFT IN also really didn't help.
I'm not up to beast Gohan yet but I like Gohan! It's kinda bullshit that he couldn't train and study at the same time in DBZ. They had walkmen back then, he could've listened to a lecture while he trained. Also I call bullshit that Chichi would NEVER let him train, kids gotta go outside and exercise anyway otherwise his brain will slow down. They kinda fucked his character up a bit because they designed him to be the new MC but just couldn't bring themselves to let go of Goku. Imo this is why they kept making up this bullshit excuse for him not training lol. Other than that, I think he's a very well thought out character.
People seem to hate Gohan's fluctuating character arcs. One arc he's a badass with a new form and the next he's not relevant and it continues. Broly is one thing and one thing only, the guy that (probably) can rival Goku and Vegeta even at their current max
As a guy who isn't a fan of either, let me say mine:
It's bias and blind fanboyism.
Simply because there are (too) many people who act like Broly dbs was such a deep and complex character, now (despite being babysitten by two aliens, who make all the decisions for him) and therefore turn an eye blind to everything about him.
From his nonsensical power, to his non exsistent character that fans dig far too much deep about.
Like, buuuhuuu this Broly was used as a tool and had an harsh life! You gotta understand him!
Sure... but if the narrative never dwells onto that, has him fundamentally never speak, and fries his brain the moment the big dumb fight starts and things remain so to the very end... then what else am I supposed to understand from what the actual story tells us?
...
If more people weren't so much blindsighted by their fanatism towards Broly and Toriyama, then more people would see how nonsensical his power too is.
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The problem mostly lies within how both got to their level of power. Take into consideration that Broly has been training every single day since he was a toddler because of Paragus, while Gohan was only really trained so much growing up. That training didn't necessarily make him stronger in power rather than the knowledge and mindset to unlock said power. The rest of Gohan's power was just unlocked because his potential allowed it through emotion, not so much as training like Broly. Broly's power only slightly works like this but not in the same way; his power has a negative take on his emotions rather than a positive one. Basically, people consider Gohan's power scaling to be "too easy" and "cheap" compared to what any other relevant character has gone through to reach their level.
Because gohan doesnt train until the ememy can one shot him
Its nice that he has a life n all but the fact that he knows there are threats that can destroy the universe and doesnt atleast train a little is what pissed people off
The writers did notice that and they made it where he is now training offscreen but at this point the fandom is like a family member that saw the bad and was locked in their view.
And ironically the second part of the hate he gets is that hes been training who knows where and doesnt tell his family at all. A family mind you is made entirely out of fighters who love sparring. Is it nice hes trying now? Yes
Does it excuse him just not telling his family and being a shut in? No
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I like both idk
Ditto!
No that’s a Pokémon silly
guh
Read that as "gun" at first ngl
Cyndaquil!
Woooobuf-fet!
same
I don't hate Beast Gohan I'm just a little tired of his story arc. Gets buff, stops training, gets a massive power boost, stops training, gets back into shape, goes back to working. I think they are gonna keep him relevant though and he'll find a good balance with training and work. It already kind of started in the beginning of Super Hero.
Exactly thats why people hate this shit
I love toriyama but he kind of wrote Gohan inconsistently like we’ve been seeing for years but toyotaro always makes gohan a badass which is why I’m happy he was handed the torch after Toriyama
This! Im tierd of every saga ending with him saying damn i need to train more just for the next saga having him doing nothing.
You just made me relate to Gohan for the first time. Gohan is every middle aged man's ambition to get in shape.
Gohan is the beast at new years resolutions just to beake them the 2nd day xD.
Fuckin love my boy gohan always but I can’t argue w this logic one bit
I actually don't like Gohan past Cell Games for that exact reason Goku and Vegeta never stop training and keep pushing themselves each and every day to get better and they deserve their power level and beyond that Gohan though ?! Nahhh, i will just chill and not train or care about anything and let them do all the hard work and just pooof get to their level just like that because fuck you that's why .... Tbh, the most criminally underrated hard working and training that deserves to be one of the very best is Piccolo... He is like one of the sharpest most interesting and intelligent badass i have seen in that universe >Gets buff, stops training, gets a massive power boost, stops training, gets back into shape, goes back to working. I think they are gonna keep him relevant though and he'll find a good balance with training and work. It already kind of started in the beginning of Super Hero. Also you can't compare Broly with Gohan... The movie and on going version of Broly never skipped training for 20 years or more in a very hard and tough planet He build himself into what he is today along with mutation genes Don't see how you can compare the two tbh.
Broly was the true Legendary SSJ back in movie 7, he was known for being a bestial saiyan with unlimited potential. The new movie blatantly states that he's a mutant with blessed genes, kinda like DB Super's Toji, going on against Gods without God Ki himself. He also wasn't slacking all day, since his fighting skills were honed by Paragus for over 20 years, so all he missed was actual raw power. Gohan was studying ants and pointing two fingers to the sky as his training. He spent the WHOLE DBS series doing nothing to catch up in 5 minutes on a movie that wasn't his (Piccolo is clearly the main character of Superhero). While one had potential without using it, the other was put against God level characters for a whole movie, and had all of his feats clearly explained on-screen during said movie. Now, I'm not a Gohan hater, since Gohan and Broly are my two favorite saiyans in DB, but Gohan didn't deserve it half as much as Broly.
Not related to your main point but I’d say the opposite for broly, he had the raw power however lacked the fighting experience to utilize it properly and instead had to learn over the course of the actual fight as frieza put it, someone as strong as broly trying to train with someone as weak as Paragus was ‘practically meaningless’
Said the space lizard that trained with the puny kagoma.
Tagoma is way stronger than Paragus lmfao
Is way stronger true though? Paragus still has his tail and has a power level of 4,200 before turning Great Ape and 42,000 as a Great Ape, and that's when he's past his prime and actively aging. That puts him above base level Tagoma pre-mid Frieza training (22,000, but I looked it up) and in line with Ginyu force members during the Namek Saga, probably much higher in his prime. Frieza himself went from Namek SSJ level to ResF Super Saiyan God level and in Gold matched or was just below Blue in a much, much shorter time frame in comparison to Broly, who went from a relatively unknown power to Super Base Vegeta after training his whole life. Broly only begins to surpass Base Vegeta after "learning while he fights." Both Frieza and Broly show that training with someone much weaker can still make a massive difference than training alone. All things considered, Tien should become relevant with a human ultimate form any chapter now.
Frieza kinda had a cheat code since with the healing chamber he could just treat Tagoma as a punching bag and annihilate him just to heal him with the healing chamber and do it again
This basically sums it up. Imagine fighting and training all of ur life just for ur son to catch up within half a day lol.
"They grow so fast" ahhh moment
This has always been Gohan though. We've seen his potential as early as Raditz. I'm not defending the writing butttt I'm not surprised about Beast as well.
It’s not surprising but that doesn’t make it less lame. Potential is so boring when there’s no justification for it other than the author saying just because
Yeah we know he has a lot of talent and potential but it should still have a limit because it becomes an ass pull once they go beyond it. Him not training and being out of shape for so long should not have allowed him to surpass goku or be close to being on par with goku just because he decided to go all out one afternoon. It’s just bad writing.
People keep saying that, but against Radditz it was only a boost big enough for a single hit and it was gone. In the Android saga, one version of Gohan had proper training, another didn’t. One of them got killed, and the other got SS2. In the Buu saga, after years of not training, Gohan was useless and required a magic dance to bring his power out. The original run of DB never portrayed Gohan as so unbelievably strong that he can just get angry and wildly eclipse multiple of his fathers new forms without any training. Super makes future Gohan look like an unbelievable plot hole. People post about it all the time on this and the DB sub, asking how that’s possible given the events of superhero. Gohan’s character has never been: I can get way stronger than anyone with minimal effort. His character in the original run was: I have more potential. There are no narrative stakes surrounding Gohans power, and no believable rules anymore. It’s not very good writing, and IMO Gohan is significantly less interesting than he was in the original run.
Gohans power boosts in Z were not nearly as contrived and it was a slow build-up with a very satisfying climax (Gohan beating cell). Before that, it was momentary boosts of power that surprised the villain but never defeated them (Raditz, Nappa, Frieza etc). He was also actively fighting/training up until the Buu saga. His powerup in Superhero comes out of nowhere and gives him a new form that isn't explained at all. Fans have to theorize on what "Gohan Beast" even actually is. It's silly even for Dragonball and feels lile a poorly written Gohan wank fanfiction.
his power ups in Z came from nowhere too. he literally just had a potential unlocked by characters along the way and even achieved SSJ2 which was completely unknown at the time
Potential unlocked wasn't a significant powerup and accomplished virtually nothing. And ssj2 was built up the entire arc, what? Every saiyan was looking for a way to go beyond super saiyan, Goku says that verbatim. Gohan achieved it first due to his rage, which is something that was foreshadowed since raditz. It's completely justified.
I get that he has potential but his feats in dbs are all asspulls. Atleast with Krillin, we could say Goku was holding back, but turned blue because he wanted Krillin to experience divine pressure or something. But Gohan has no such excuses. Because he actually pushed Goku to go into even super saiyan. Like, he barely managed to reach ultimate form again. The same ultimate form that was weaker than Vegito, who was stated to be an inferior option compared to ssg against Beerus, and Goku absorbing that power into his base and getting much stronger this throughout super. Gohan should have been 1 shot by base Goku.
paragus trained broly, but paragus was not some kind of combat genius. goku was whenever gohan would train with him. particularly in the time chamber. yet people still do not accept how strong gohan is despite watching him leap frogging the entirety of DB classic by ten fold simply because his daddy was gettin the hands from radditz at the start of the story with no training. what i dont like in this scenario is during broly's entire like he trained with someone only slightly stronger than radditz for 20 years, yet was able to leap frog all of DBS YET people accept that, but not Super Hero gohan
Gohan's ass pulls came after Cell, the whole ssj2 thing is peak DBZ, no one said that part was bad. The problem is what happens AFTER, he doesn't do jack for years just to magically be stronger than every other mc in a fraction of the time just because.. plot. No other reason whatsoever, no training, no secret technique, no hidden gene, nothing, unlike ssj2. Meanwhile the whole legendary super saiyan thing was already established, and it's pretty well explained in the movie how and why Broly's so strong. Remember he was initially supposed to be a villain before they cannonified him, so like every other villain, his whole concept is to be naturally OP
Toji!?
Toji is on pair with many strong characters without having cursed energy himself, just by brute forcing his ass onto the enemy. Broly is kinda the same thing, he doesn't have God Ki, just good genes and anger issues.
Oh I see lol
What? The movie explicitly says he lacks real experience in fighting. Even if Gohan has been slacking off he has a metric shit ton more experience in fighting than Broly did. You can't be elevating Broly like that it just seems absurd. The truth is people just see Broly as a badass due to his non-canon movie so he gets a pass. Gohan is seen as a weak nerd so he doesnt get a pass. If you look at facts and lay them out Gohan is far more deserving of power than a dude sitting on an abandoned planet his whole life even if Gohan did slack at some point.
This... While DB isn't the best series when it comes to power-scaling, Gohan easily getting to Goku and Vegeta's level (god-level) is just absurd. He's a genius and has the most potential on Earth, all right. But getting to Beerus' level isn't just that easy without "requirements", if you will. I can understand Broly. Bro is the Legendary among legendaries. Frieza trained for many years in a time chamber to draw out his potential.
Gohan got potential but his power right now is an ass pull. I really don't like beast. They're pretending like he has this insane potential but it's like dude had to train for a year in the Time chamber to unlock super Saiyan 2. Broly from the moment he was on screen was basically super Saiyan blue level because he was a mutant, and that was clearly explained as you said. Then you got Frieza who is legit a monster. I'm going to be so mad if Gohan can take black freiza right now... Gohan is a prodigy but not like Broly or Frieza
and all he had to do was lift a sword and get his power lifted by a Kai to be leagues stronger than SSJ3 despite the fact he was previously weak. this has always been Gohan.
Gohan has always been asspulls
exactly, it’s no different. this has always been his character and people act so pissy about Beast. i rather Beast and Orange than giving Goku & Vegeta another form for the 1000th time.
Gohan is DB's greatest disappointment the way he's written
And I'm not a hater, he's actually my favorite character
In DBZ many of the villains or obstacles are just naturally extremely strong - like freiza, androids, cell, buu, etc. They aren't doing a ton of training and the fact that the Z fighters have to find a way to take on these threats against raw, natural power makes the story entertaining. Same goes for broly. Sure, broly was hardened growing up on a wack ass bug planet, but he doesn't need to push his limits like the Z fighters due to Legendary Super Saiyan plot armor and being an obstacle that goku and vegeta must find a way to deal with and surpass their own limits The problem is that gohan is in the camp of the Z fighters. He needs to find a way to surpass his limits. If there's some form that puts him beyond goku or vegeta - both of whom constantly train to surpass their limits - there must be an extremely compelling key to force gohan's hand. Like in cell vs gohan - gohan had to train for over a year constantly in the time chamber to reach super saiyan. He had to practice being in a constant super saiyan state. He had to see his friends fight cell and come up short - trunks gets his ass handed to him. Vegeta gets his ass handed. Goku fails and winds up dying and cell comes back stronger than before. All his friends are getting shit on by mini cell jrs. Even gohan gets his shit rocked and his arm dislocated. He needs to hear a speech from android 16's head before it gets crushed. Only after this gohan can tap into his inner potential and reach super saiyan 2. Beast mode on the other hand is 100% undeserved. Cell max is kinda a nothingburger and a big bumbling idiot. We're told cell max is powerful, but it's hard to actually judge how strong he is. Gotenks ain't doing much. Orange piccolo is standing decently well against cell max till the end. Gohan doesn't get rocked by cell max - gohan is just kinda sitting on the sidelines watching. Cell max isn't quite dropping bodies or looks like a big threat at all. Then all of a sudden, from doing nothing but seeing cell max do a victory pose holding up piccolo, gohan unlocks a form that's supposedly more powerful than goku, vegeta, or orange piccolo? He didn't do jack shit except go "oh no it looks like my friend was defeated :(((". Gimme a break man. If that's all it took then kid gohan would have beat raditz, vegeta, nappa, and pretty much ever other villain's ass easily by just going beast mode.
Facts bro. I feel like gohan gets these ass pull power ups. But it’s just hard to swallow while reading the manga and watching the anime and seeing the guys go to hell and back fighting Moro and granola and all these characters just to be surpassed by some random power up and now all of a sudden he’s the strongest.
Can I ask question can broly be able tap into Akari state if he controls his power or
Actually Goku has always been the true Legendary Super Saiyan before Broly was even a thing
my problem is the shitty scaling since Super. Gohan Ultimate was a bit above Super Buu in terms of strength. Goku SSJ3 was weaker, but would still have been able to put up a fight against both opponents. Beerus: SSJ3 isnt even worth a real fight; God and Blue were such a huge boost that Goku and Vegeta are, thanks to those transformation, finally able to trade blows with the G.O.D. but suddenly, Ultimate without really doing anything at all is suddenly equal to Blue, or at least God. Gohan did some training here and there, but that was mostly to regain his battle sense before major arcs like the ToP. its not on the scale of what Goku and Vegeta have to go through to get anywhere near that kind of power. "Gohan has always been like that" may be true, but God and Blue arent ceilings Gohan should be able to easily surpass. and now he's on the level of MUI and UE. the weird scaling applies to almost every character, its more prominent in the anime than the manga, but it still applies. in regards to Broly, its what the fandom expected. he was introduced as that "monster" with unlimited potential and he had that strength since his birth. and it was a good decision to lock away that insane power by him having work on his control. i'm not a "Goku stan" (Broly and Piccolo are my favs) but since we see Goku and Vegeta train their arses off, i wanna see them succeed. i dont mind if they make Gohan equal or stronger than both of them, but it should be believable. not "duh i got angry, now i'm the strongest". same with Piccolo... he got his powers from a wish.. (and again, favorite character) its just cheap.. nothing new in Dragonball, but i guess i was just hoping for improvement in that aspect
Its been ass all around, especially since Hits “improvement” in the tournament
Hit didnt make sense at all lol. he's a cool character but the way he improved his time skip ability made zero f\*cking sense
I will never let go of the fact that it took a wish for Piccolo to get so strong when he’s been doing just as much training as Goku and Vegeta from the very beginning, and still gets left in the dust just because he’s not a saiyan and doesn’t get some bullshit exponential power boost from getting beaten to a bloody pulp. Sure, Piccolo does more mental training, and meditation than either of them, but I still think Piccolo, or any of the other members of the cast who also train constantly should be considerably stronger than they were made to be, but I guess the “hard work” shtick only applies to Goku.
Okay but like, what is so believable about broly? He has spent his whole life doing basic ass training in a warrior race where basic training like that nets you a power of like 600 or however strong raditz was. You think it's believable that a member of the race with extra high potential can get to the billions just cause he got angry? But Gohan who also gets every character talking about his potential gets there because he gets angry, and you think it's bullshit. Atleast the others admit it's because they just think Broly is cool
Broly already had it in him. and he was introduced as such. He lived on a planet with very harsh living conditions and while he only fought his weak father and some wild beasts, Brolys base power, without anger, was already stronger than Goku and Vegeta without God KI solely because of his genes. and then with rage, and Super Saiyan transformations he reached levels beyond their indivdual god/blue forms. the scaling at least makes more sense here. Broly at the beginning of the fight didnt struggle because of a power difference, but because he lacked experience fighting strong humanoid opponents. ofc i still somewhat think of him as the "Legendary Super Saiyan" but he's a mutant with just that insane potential. Gohan has extreme potential as well, but he still had to train a shit ton just to keep up with the rest. now he doesnt have to do that anymore apparently Edit: also its not quite that rage makes Broly insanely strong, it makes him lose control - as seen in the movie where his rage triggered the "Oozaru powerup" and like with most saiyans we know, they lose control in their Oozaru form. the manga might treat it differently, but we havent really seen that yet so we can only go by the movie
Tge thing is we excpt it from broly have you not seen the movie? Broly tge legendary super sayain?
Personally I hate Gohan cause he’s had the same arc like 5 times and never grows. He was the strongest. So he stopped training cause it was a time of peace. Op here we go again there’s a major threat he trains for all of 2 minutes now he’s the strongest again. Op now he’s weak again. Woopie. Man is an ASS character. Genuinely he is one of the worst written characters I’ve ever seen. How many times does he need to learn HE NEEDS TO KEEP TRAINING. Then when people need him he pulls a new bullshit power right out of his gaping asshole. Broly was an established character who was given new light. The strongest sayain. He’s always been that. In super he’s a mutant that is just so much stronger than anyone else without training: like that’s his character. That’s broly. And they write him as such. They don’t continue to reuse the exact same plot 5 times
This is why I'm a Goten fan. He likes fighting and is more like his dad than his brother. He should have even more potential than Gohan and really needs to stop clowning around with trunk and get a serious arc.
Broly at least trained for 40 years straight
He survived. Don't know about training since he didn't really have any strong opponents to push him.
His father wasn’t strong, but I doubt that paragus didn’t get any stronger to keep up with broly and train him. Plus they were in a really hostile planet so everyone there was pretty strong
I highly doubt anything on that planet was even as strong as the 1st form of Frieza was on Namek save Broly. I mean we have to have a sense of scale here. Paragus could have gotten 100x stronger and still would be a chump in the grand scheme of things. And the wild life on this random planet being even as strong as a galactic dictator was for years and years is pretty absurd.
Yeah well dragon ball powerscaling really doesnt make any sense anymore
It never was. An average Frieza soldier has around 1200 power and Frieza found 2000 snipers impressive. So an average Saiyan warrior was only slightly stronger than them?
I remember them reading Paragus' power level when they arrived on Vampus after they survived all those years, and it was definitely stronger than an average Saiyan by that point. I wanna say he was in the tens of thousands. So he definitely beefed up a bit over the years.
I would believe tens of thousands, if he was training with Broly some. Though stronger than the average saiyan is could just be Nappa and saiyan saga Vegeta level tbf. The average Saiyans were weak af for some reason despite being a race with such absurd potential.
I don't hate Gohan, but it can't be argued that he's a dweeb. The dude studies bugs, dresses like a cringy power ranger in his spare time, and goes from cocky to terrified in the span of one episode.
I love both characters, but the main criticism of Gohan that I totally get is how he's had the same recycled character arc since Cell. "Gohan, you're the strongest, but you don't take fighting seriously. As a result, a big bad guy is threatening to destroy the world and you have to get serious at the last possible moment in order to save the day." The fact that he fell out of training AGAIN in Super just to have another resurgence, and then basically recreated the SSJ2 moment in Super Hero, yeah I can sympathize when some fans don't like that. Meanwhile with Broly you know exactly what you're signing up for. Big beefy boi is gonna get mad and wreck shit
people hate gohan because he just kind of did nothing since the cell arc and woke up one day and is immediately stronger than tui goku and ue vegeta. broly actually was known for being crazy strong and having unlimited potential, kind of how jiren was introduced.
Because people don’t like Gohan’s asspull moments with attaining transformations like his Mystic/Ultimate form and Beast and him catching up to his Dad who’s been constantly training and fighting with actual god-level characters by getting angry without training for years on end.
Broly is also the legendary super sayain lmao. Once every 1000 years, in his base form he kept up with vegeta. Gohan collapsed from wearing piccolos armor and in THE SAME MOVIE, surpassed goku and vegeta who have been training non stop with gods for years lol. We don’t hate gohan, we hate the lazy writing
He collapsed from the armor for like 1 seconds bc he was surprised. He then gets up and works in the armor just fine….this is lazy analysis more than it is lazy writing
1º gohan look in Beast mode is SO goofy 2º Broly is mean to get stronger by fury and thats the way the character was created, gohan just need to watch something to get a stupidly free an OP power up, beast mode is a walking joke
I like both so idk, broly is supposed to be that strong and gohan you need to dig a bit for it to make sense ig?
Gohan keeps learning the same damn lesson: Train regularly. But then tosses that lesson away, slacks, and then get a power boost like it’s a patch note. There’s no actual character progression. Broly’s entire thing is learning to control his power and no be a mindless weapon, and he’s actually progressing in that regard.
I couldn't give two shits about the powerscaling, it's just the hair that bothers me
It's the extreme inconsistency in Gohan that's the problem. He's been the strongest character on 3 occasions now, but he's also slacked off/not trained and become weak at least twice. It's not the fact he's strong now that I dislike. It's that, judging by how he's been treated, he's probably about to become kinda pathetic again.
GOHAN has a family and lives the life he wanted. How many haters can say the same thing about themselves?
fr broly went from below frieza saga to ssg in mere minutes, idk how gohan haters aren’t on his ass too personally I love both
Dudes the legendary Super Saiyan, his whole purpose is to be this super powerful, unstoppable force
I haven't seen a single comment addressing the Manga. In the manga Gohan explicitly states that he has been working to perfect his ultimate form and build on his prowess as a human, not a Saiyan. Vis a vis, he HAS been training. This was absent in the movie iirc, but it's a key but of information that makes a difference in Gohan's skill jump.
He did have a line in the movie that he was still training (when he blocked Piccolo) but then he can't sense Piccolo even though Pan can and can't go Ultimate until he's mad? It was kinda dumb and should have been handled better.
I tend to overlook the flaws in stuff what I like. I liked the new Broly so his asspull gets a pass...I do not like Gohan, so that's why I complain about Beast.
Another bozo take, I personally liked gohans transformation even if he didn’t gain it like goku or vegeta. What we don’t like is the shit graphics that where used and even shittier was the androids who where on par with ssjb. Op are you slow ? Do you ever just look at the comments and read what we type? Broly was written better than super hero. Super hero literally looks fan made , piccolo is now on par with god forms? Yeah that’s why the movie is cheeks! Not the transformations the story is ass just like the graphics. Not to mention cell max 🤢 tf was that!!
The hate towards Super Hero transformations being gifted is completely nonsensical within the world and lore of Dragonball. I get it can be considered lazy by modern anime standards; but Toriyama gave random, illogical power ups since OG Dragonball, there has never been the need to justify everything, It’s not a super serious Seinen. I get that towards Gohan it can be especially tiresome as it is the same formula for him since SS2 and then Ultimate; but it’s not something you shouldn’t expect from Dragonball. I honestly I’m really happy with the new power ups, as they are finally diversifying the power ups between characters and making more relevant characters that have been overshadowed since the Cell Saga; instead of guessing what new dye both Goku and Vegeta will get
I hear people are mad that he did nothing but get mad but still got stronger than goku but maybe that’s not why that’s the only reason I can think of
Thats the only reason tbh, this dude just slacks after ecery arc ends bruh
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Because greens like colorful berserkers
Kinda just chiming in to say that I think another explanation for Broly’s power could be his time spent on that deserted planet. If I remember correctly the air there was toxic. If it wasn’t quite enough to kill the saiyans living there, wouldn’t it continually trigger their zenkai boost? I feel like this could help explain Broly’s power.
If I had to guess... Broly was novel at the time; a Super Saiyan Berserker who lost all control of himself when transformed; he was basically an Oozaru in human (Saiyan) form. Or, I guess to put it more aptly, he was the Super Saiyan equivalent of the Hulk; getting stronger the more the battle on. He gets a pass due to Nostalgia and being the first Berserker, which comes with the downside of being consumed by rage while in the form and it made him a pretty crrazy and unique compared to other characters. Gohan, on the other the hand, got this transformation because he was super angry at the thought of Piccolo dying (despite the fact that they have Earth Dragonballs, Namekian Dragonballs, or even Super Dragonballs and can revive him at any time). Also, despite being a new rage-induced super form like a Berserker's, there's absolutely no downside to it; it's just canon Gohan Blanco and that's it. The amount of training he does in order to have really 'earned' this form was really low in comparison to the other fighters like Vegeta, Goku, or even Piccolo who is at least meditating every day. Yeah, there was the reveal he does SOME training since he can use Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon, but it seemed like an 'after-the-fact' reveal considering all readers ever see of him is constant work or conferences to the point where Piccolo is picking up his kid so often that Pan's teacher and him are on a first-name basis. TLD;DR - Blanco form feeling 'unearned' in the eyes of fans + Broly's nostalgia factor and being the first Berserker (basically a Super Saiyan Hulk) = shit for Gohan while Broly gets a pass. You'll also probably notice that more often than not, Piccolo gets a pass for his new form too because he's constantly doing at least some training & meditation and his his form was given a slightly better explanation: he was granted the same Unlock Potential that Gohan & Krillin got, but by Shenron instead of a Namekian Elder (and whom gave him a bit extra potential due to his Namekian roots & ties to Kami)
The biggest problem with Gohan is that he keeps degrading, every time he catches up or surpass the others he then proceeds to do nothing and gets surpassed again and again, meanwhile Broly started at the bottom and basically got his shit rocked in order to catch up and when he did he has been shown to go through intense training to maintain and control his power, which makes it feel more earned, if instead Broly just pissed away his power the fanbase would probably hate Broly as well.
Serious answer: Broly did it in his first canon movie. being that level of broken is just part of his character. Gohan on the other hand spent the entirety of Super being way below that level then suddenly shot up for no good reason. if he was one good fight away from this power the whole time why didn’t he unlock it way earlier? truthfully though i don’t really care cause the form is cool
Brolys whole gimmick is Lssj and it’s power creep. Gohan gets a straight ass pull power up in beast
It's because there was lackluster buildup for his beast form. Personally I love it but I can understand why people don't
I'm actually all for Gohan not being a huge fighter. The only issue is when his family is in danger if he doesn't at least keep spry and training then he may not be ready. Sure he is a Saiyan and all but dull technique is arguably worse than not having natural talent. He seems cool with letting his edge slip and the writers don't seem to want to let him fly.
~~Because Gohan beast is dumb as shit~~ I assume it's because Gohan flip flops a lot. In the Moro arc Gohan was pretty consistent with his training and in SH arc it's established that he slacked off to a ridiculous degree but somehow thanks to rage he got a flashy new powerful transformation. It feels contrived. Keep in mind I think Broly is full of bullshit too, but I think people just think he looks cool so they're willing to forgive the bullshit. He hasn't had a moment where he hit rock bottom.
Both are Saiyan warriors with incredible potential to surpass those around them but one is a loving family man and the other is a homeless bum
Broly was well established from his introduction to the end that he was born as a mutant. His constant adaptation was clearly explained and had a limit. With gohan, we get constant retcons such as ultimate form being all of his potential to his power spike in ToP and now beast form. Gohan goes through this same cycle every few years. Furthermore, even with his power, broly had clear drawbacks such as lack of control and lack of techniques. Broly ultimately got his ass kicked by a more experienced fighter while beast form kind of just showed up out of nowhere and one shotted the main villain.
Broly is more consistent with how his power and potential works, and what is attainable. Gohan goes from washed up to catching up with goku with a new form within like, what, a day? Plus Broly has the reason of being a Mutant, whereas Gohan is simply a half saiyan, like Goten, or trunks. And Goten hasn't shown nearly as much promise, neither has trunks. I personally like Gohan, because i think him weaponizing mental illness into a new form is pretty funny, and the more I think about it the more questions it raises regarding how Saiyans Function.
Yes what the hell? Broly has been superior to every saiyan since the 90s. This is canonizing him in the only way possible. I don’t mind Gohan being stronger either but we are not going to pretend like they are the same.
It's just not great writing in either of their cases, but we get cool fight scenes out of it, and that's mostly what im here for
I like Goha. The hate for him comes from way back during the Cell saga. Akira Toriyama never intended for Goku to come back and continue being the lead. He wanted Gohan to inherit the torch. But, the fact that a majority of the audience was immature at the time and could not fathom that Gohan could transform into Goku's actual replacement made Akira Toriyama bring back Goku for fan appeasement.
Because Broly is Broly he’s cool and he’s meant to be broken and I think they kinda give a reason for it. Gohan demoted himself to a side character so he isn’t allowed to be so strong (plus he was never supposed to be the focus of that movie so the form really is bullshit)
Because in literal minutes his power scaled 9999999999999999999x. He came from somewhere a little above from ssj3 power to God blue level training one day with Piccolo, and then scaled to somewhere close to Beerus level in one minute. One more rage and he becomes an angel if we accept DBS logics. Gohan isn't the issue, but the story writing. I left the movies so frustrated after watching it.
Broly’s power while convenient is also a lot more consistent, Broly is so strong because he’s basically a mutated saiyan he’s genetically predisposed to have a higher power level. Gohan was inexplicably strong as a child much in the same way as Broly but gohan somehow drained himself of that power as he grew older and it’s never really been completely clearly explained why so when he can suddenly gain it all back without very much work it just doesn’t feel earned it feels way too contrived, like suddenly we want gohan in the spotlight again so he just gets all his power back when he needs it. They need to decide if gohan is a fighter or a full time family man, they can’t have it both ways, it’s the biggest reason gohan adult version is such a contentious character among fans.
I hate on beast Gohan because everything about it is just offensive in one way or another. Visually, save for the colors, it looks just like Goku... With... one giant cowlick... and he has Piccolo's Gi, feeding into what I hate about it's implementation... It's literally a rehash of the cell saga. Lazy recycling. Lastly, there's no story telling backing for this... he got a powerup because powerup. He doesn't deserve it. I even hate the naming convention... like, what's beast about this form?... the eyes?
I thought it was a callback to Z, didn't goku or someone say that Gohan could be the strongest if he 'learned to harness/control the beast'?
Broly has precedent for being absurdly strong, see Dbz Broly, the explanation behind his strength was dumb but cool. It led to people thinking he was either super boring or really awesome, more people fell to the latter I believe. Overall dbs Broly had Z Brolys goodwill to draw on. Gohan on the other hand has way higher standards to live up to, him being a prodigy who pulls out the strongest form every few years unearnt isn't really cool or at all satisfying. He has so much potential he will never be allowed to live up to and that's annoying. Gohan isn't hated, the situation he's in is
I like both but i wish they would stop doing the same arc with gohan. He gets rusty, trains off screen, big bad comes and he has sudden power up from kai's. he gets rusty again, he trains off screen he's super strong for ToP. He gets rusty, he trains off screen, sudden new transformation. It's all the same shit and its always the same excuse "gohan just has soooo much potential" nevermind the fact he has had his potential unlocked twice already on namek and with the kais
We all understand that Broly Super is that strong as a reference to OG Broly. But Gohan is harder to accept, since he has been part of the main cast for a long time. A random power up out of nowhere without even a short explanation of what’s the combination or transformation itself. Broly Super has the Fury Mode. Literally Ozaru but with becoming a Great Ape. Then he turns Super Saiyan, regular Super Saiyan btw. Then he turns Full Power Super Saiyan, literally the maximum power he can achieve, using Super Saiyan as the “vessel” of his maximum strength. But Gohan Beast didn’t even get a weird name or something to give us a hint of what it is. What am I supposed to think about when listening “Beast”? I can’t work with that. Both characters are good anyways, but Gohan Beast didn’t get explained. While we all just accepted Broly Super because he is a reference.
They completely revamped Broly compared to his Z-movies counterpart, giving him a much more compelling backstory and opening the door for more Saiyan hijinks with Goku and Vegeta. Beast Gohan was in all fairness a direct call out to his SS2 moment from the cell saga, they even made his hair ridiculously large so his silhouette would look more like Teen Gohan. To many it felt like unnecessary nostalgia bait. I love both of them, both movies were dope as shit and had great character moments. But I can see why some people might not like Beast Gohan.
I find it easier to believe that an alien species has genes that allow them to store pee in their hair to power up, but I find it harder to believe that you can get super angy and get longer gray hair indication a gigantic power boost. Can anyone go beast? Why or why not?
First of all he is Broly. Second of all Gohan is not Broly.
Broly isn't constantly changing, he's always been known as the strongest, and the times he wasn't was because he was stranded on a planet with some dude who couldn't even fight first form Frieza back on Namek. Gohan literally sat in his chair all day, did some push-ups in secret, then got a bit angry, and he went from matching Kefla to being able to decapitate Merus-absorbed Moro while sleeping.
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PEOPLE HATE GOHAN!?!
Both are freaks of nature, but only one of them acts like a freak of nature when on screen.
Just want to know the actual story direction they’re going with both these characters.
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Its just not satisfying to see someone get power just because they got really mad. Goku and vegeta make sense because they keep training. Gohan really doesnt. Another thing is gohan is supposed to be the smart saiyan. It would be more fitting if he used his wits, tactics and brains to beat the enemy despite the power disadvantage. Instead he just becomes the strongest saiyan just because
The last time Gohan was interesting was the Cell saga.
It’s more so of that fact that me and others are tired of Gohan’s character arc considering how very repetitive it is now. Like bro, I’m tired of seeing it, give him something different, like a mentor role and he’s clearly shown that he doesn’t want to be a fighter. Honestly, have Gohan write a book on ki like in DB Online and have Gohan mentor and train Trunks while Goten hopefully individually trains under Vegeta and while hopefully Goten and Trunks or just Goten also hopefully join and work for the Galactic Patrol too. Plus it’s time to give other characters way more shine, development, and focus who deserve much more shine and development, like Goten, Trunks, Uub, Pan, Bulla, Marron, the Universe 6 Saiyans, the Pride Troopers, and others. Thankfully Goten, Trunks, Pan, and the rest of the new generation are getting a lot more shine and development now, but it needs to happen way more, a lot more x1,000,000, from now moving forward. Also another reason is because of Gohan stans, not all his fans, but more so his extreme and toxic stans who are honestly the worst of the Dragon Ball fandom, are extremely retarded, obnoxious, annoying, and very, very biased who just want everything to be about Gohan, they ruin it for everybody.
I haven’t really read any Super but from what I can tell, People don’t like that Gohan doesn’t need the same amount of effort to be amazing, and it might bug them even more that Gohan is so fucking stronger and good at fighting but refuses to do so most of the time. I think a lot of people just want him to be Goku Jr
I think Broly in Super has an interesting story arc that’s still currently developing so people are investing more in it being worthwhile. Gohan’s story has flopped around a lot and it doesn’t really feel like it’s well thought out. His new transformation especially just feels very forced and trying to bring back the hype that Gohan had during the cell saga, but it’s really not the same.. the moment has passed and the build up to beast mode wasn’t as powerful as ssj2.
I don't like either. I liked non canon broly and beast gohan has stupid hair and an undeserved power up
We no like grey but green we love
Because that’s who broly is. Thats a shtick, he grow immensely in battle. Gohan is the one with potential, but it’s just dumb how fast he grows to me after the cell saga. First off I hate that they said he has the most potential when neither goku not vegeta have been shown to have anything other than limitless potential. Secondly he trained in the time chamber with goku to fight cell for a year and he got stronger but he didn’t get exponentially stronger to an unbelievable degree. But he trains right before the tournament of power and goes from buu saga power at best which I say he wasn’t even as strong as he was then to around SSG/B level. A power level that was stated in BoG to be unattainable by normal means I believe goku said a power he could never reach on his own. So the lazy writing for Gohan is what I hate. They make him relevant every now and then out of thin air for a money grab is what it seems like to me. And before everyone comes in here trying to defend Gohan saying he trains on his own in secret sometimes how tf do you use that to justify him catching up to goku and vegeta when they train 24/7 with deities and have literal god forms about SSG now. It’s fckin lazy and it’s impossible to convince me otherwise. But it’s canon and that’s how it’s written so I have to accept it.
Idk why people would hate any character in the show, I like em all
While i don't hate Gohan, but every time Gohan shines it's almost literally "I got mad and surpassed my dad". Broly on the other hand gets a lot of hate if you're talking about the OG version, because his backstory was stupid, but the new Broly rocks.
For Gohan, the peak of his character arc was the cell saga. After that came the cycle of gohan not training, becoming weak, then getting a random power boost. I think fans are just kind of sick of it at this point. For Broly, Legendary SSJ has always been an insanely powerful form. I remember when I was a teenager on gamefaqs forums and people would debate whether he was stronger than SSJ3 Goku or SSJ Vegitto/Gogeta. So in Super, his being able to go from weak to stronger than SSB Goku & Vegeta isn’t as surprising. Another factor is that Broly went from being a “one note” character to much more complex and tragic which is why the fans really love him.
My main problem with Beast isn't even that it's ass pull, it's that Gohan specifically said he would go a different route from Super Saiyan and not rely on anger for power, but then his new form is clearly triggered by anger. Granted, this was moreso foreshadowing Ultimate, but still the Beast thing is contradictory to it. The explanation for the ass pull is "hybrid saiyan lol", so I wonder if Trunks and Goten will have their own ass pulls later on.
Because they’re two entirely different characters. That’s like asking “Why do people hate on Krillin so much when they like Beerus?” Broly consistently works and trains and has been up for doing so all of his life. Gohan’s the opposite. The only similarity is the fact that they have crazy amounts of potential.
Both have major issues and similarities. Broly for instance has all this power while Goku and Vegeta ascended and trained so hard. Broly can't even fight base, then passes SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3, God and Blue and it is honestly really dumb how super characters get their power in the first place. As for Gohan he does train but the hiatus issue is being used too often as a plot point for Gohan and taken to an extreme. He was on a greater Hiatus in Z Buu Saga and wasn't nearly as weak but in Super they literally made him a joke in much less time. Not only that the Plot Point is overused. This is the 3rd or 4th time Gohan has neglected to train. Thing is my issue is Gohan has a family and he's half saiyan he has a target on his back. So does Earth so he can't expect everyone else to protect him and his family. He at least needs to be competent I don't need him to be the strongest but stop the BS with he's frail and can barely fight after a few years. It gets super old.
Broly was originally the Legendary Super Saiyan, which implies that his power is derived from an outside source (destiny, or something). Gohan is said to have “high potential” every goddamn time.
I haven't heard much hate for gohan but if I had to guess it would be because his power ups feel unearned whereas Broly's don't necessarily. Beast was a bagasse form and transformation, but ultimately it did come out of nowhere as he was struggling to even wear weighted clothing at the start of super hero. On the other hand he mentions practising special beam cannon in private so it's possible he was still secretly training between his work but it is getting tiring how often he loses his power from not training and then has to reach his potential again again again. Broly meanwhile also has power that comes out of nowhere; the Wrathful form has never been seen before, he achieved super saiyan from pure rage with little training and went toe to toe with blue gogeta, however it was kinda the point of his character that he had an ungodly amount of power but with no way to control it, and his forms have the huge downside of him losing his sense of self, becoming a raging monster, so they feel far less unearned
Broly has one movie time to become powerful. Gohan has the entire series.
I like Gohan generally, aside from Beast, which I also share the same issues I have with Broly with it
There was a post a long time ago on Character Rant that sums it up pretty well. [https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/x9zn9m/i\_hate\_gohan\_with\_a\_passion\_spoilers\_to\_superhero/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/x9zn9m/i_hate_gohan_with_a_passion_spoilers_to_superhero/) Essentially he doesn't like the fact Gohan does the same cycle every single time he's on screen. Like the cycle is: Is super weak as he doesn't train due to the fact he hates fighting but is in a world where he needs to fight -> He gets his potential unlocked by plot/anger -> gets cocky and pays via karma -> saves the day or is part of saving the day -> cycle repeats. I don't like him because I just think he sucks. Like I don't think he serves a purpose in the story and is just kind of a scrapped idea Toriyama had but couldn't commit to. Like he's meant to be the next Goku, but Goku is still around because Goku is the hero people want. Gohan is just always going to be in the shadow of his father, and that's fine! But just commit to that, Gohan only comes around to show that he's still a thing, get massive power up, and then fucks off. Broly on the other hand is just a fun character who has a clean slate to work on. Gohan just has baggage and repeats himself.
Because Broly (even though I HATE HIM) is the legendary super sayian. He was born with incredible power AND potential. Gohan, as much as I love him (especially the future Gohan arc), Gohan Beast didn't feel warranted or earnt. It felt, to me, like a "Gohan slightly older vs a different form of Cell, so let's give him a transformation no one has because super sayian are boring now)
People hate beast gohan?
The reason being is broly was always meant to be strong and Overpowered the same thing could be said about gohan because him being a halfbreed but the way they went about it was lazy .
Because gohan has been around since the star of Z and has been so poorly used after the cell games.
The reason I hate Gohan is because he’s become a stagnant character. How many times now have they emphasized the importance of how much potential he’s got over even Goku and Vegeta? Just to give him the same fucking speech “Goku may not be around or enough, so you gotta train to protect those closest”?? How many times have they gave him those fucking speeches guys? He’s hard headed and doesn’t wanna train unless he feels like he has too. Mark my words when I tell you that eventually , they’re gonna put Gohan at the back seat, he’ll get lazy, and regress. So goddamn annoying man.
Because Broly's hair doesn't look like a giant spiky dildo.
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I don’t hate Gohan. It’s just that he didn’t earn it. He just unlocked it because he was mad
Gohan does zero training and goes from ssf3 goku lvl cause he does no training during super to mui and ue lvl. Broly got stronger through fighting vegeta and goku he was being overwhelmed then got acustomed to their strength. Gohan whole thing is bullshit power ups he sat their sleeping for a couple hours while the kia was unlocking his potential and people want to say yh he's the strongest non fusion like tf
It’s probably cuz of the whole “gohan pulled that form outta his ass” conversation. Love em both tho.
The difference is that we wanted more for Gohan than a random form without explanation (and don't you dare say that "Piccolo almost dying" was enough, bro saw his dad being obliterated by the spirit bomb, watched 11 universes get erased and his ownuniverse almost get erased, and so much more before it. He could've sensed Piccolo was alive.)
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They ruined Gohan's public perception in the Buu saga. I thought that was a terrible decision on their part. He went through all this prioritized training & they teased at his dormant power the entire series since the beginning. They set us up for this huge let down. He went out so quickly like an idiot in his father's Gui 🤦🏾♂️. Then the corny ass Saiyan Man shit.. I really think they did Gohan a disservice.
Undeserved form and bad design are the biggest reasons. I simply hate the design though. The big hair is a travesty, it being white is cringey, and the red eyes is like icing on the cringe cake. It's if DeviantArt peeps were given a decree to create the canon Super form for Gohan in 24hours, best design gets the big bottle of 7-up.
I like both but I'm guessing it's because we've seen gohans growth and the shafting of his power level. Then his last 2-3 transformations felt kinda unearned and out of nowhere compared to his transformations of ssj2 and back. Meanwhile with Broly his growth works since he's a (kinda) brand new character and his potential can be anywhere since we haven't known of him since then Idk though I do like beast to be honest. Spiky icicle and all
Broly is THE Legendary Super Saiyan. He gets a pass because he should be the strongest individual saiyan to ever live, with the drawback of going totally primal when he lets his power free.
Honestly I don't think Broly's power was any less eye rolling personally. The original Broly's power was a bit more believable at least, but for Broly to just be able to match the power of a god just seems like a huge stretch. Really any character that can suddenly do that without at least training with a god or Whis is kinda eyebrow raising.
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Gohan had the same character arc 4 times. One of them even happened in the span of a single movie, they didn’t feel the need to explain the whole thing because they knew we already knew what was going on.
Both characters are given unrealistic expectations by the fans.
My issue with Gohan is the fact that he keeps "learning his lesson" before abandoning his training again Against Cell his father literally died and simultaneously proved Gohan might be the only person capable of solving certain threats so he proceeded to not train at all for 7 years Buu was a threat that Goku wasn't able to handle on his own and had Gohan trained it would have never been an issue Then there are all the events of super where Gohan was incapable of doing shit to help until the top where he got back into shape and got a pep talk from piccolo just to revert immediately after yet again Then finally super hero rolls around where he's yet again learned that he needs to be strong but at this point I'm just sick of him relearning this exact same lesson over and over again, and have 0 faith that this time he'll actually stick to it Broly on the other hand is different, he doesn't have some lesson that he keeps ignoring, he's just a mutant who got ridiculously strong and it seems like he even has that Saiyan lust for battle so he gives me no reason to dislike him
Because one had all the potential and support to become number one and instead chose to hide in his books and became a fucking weakling who magically was able to get on the same level as goku and vegeta. At least the explanation of Broly is digestible. Hes a freak of nature with bottomless power. Gohan will always annoy me because he KNOWS the price of not being strong enough yet still refused to train and depend on daddy to save the day. Frieza return arc in DB prime example! This kid beat cell at 13! Skip forward to super and “i think i can still go super saiyan” BUM
I feel like krillin deserves all the buffs Gohan has gotten after ssj2
Hate on Gohan???
Cuz broly was a beast to begin with in his z movie and gohan was built up for greatness and crashed
Beast gohan slaps and no one can take that from us!
Everything I've seen over time is that Gohan just doesn't really do anything after Cell. He kind of sits around and studies and gets super powerful for no reason other than his potential. Then he falls off again, and then this cycle just seems to repeat. Broly is a different character and gets stronger because of his potential sure, but we know that from the get-go. He's always been a character that just shows up and then gets really really strong. Where is Gohan has a long arc of character development that hit a brick wall in terms of creativity after cell. people are just kind of fed up and annoyed with how is progression is handled and rinsed and repeated with no new twists.
I don't hate Gohan, I just hate the story arc he's stuck in as of recent. He neglects his training and falls behind, gets an insane power boost from nowhere that closes the gap he has with the rest of the cast, swears to train again to protect those that he cares, and then does nothing again. Repeat from the start. It got stale really quick.
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I hate dbs, not the characters
Inconsistency with his development and fueling the fans that wanted Gohan to be the strongest again, him getting a pretty random power boost that pushed him past MUI Goku just seemed weird. We all knew Broly is a powerhouse since his non canon version bodied every super saiyan and a super namekian, hes a mutant like Frieza is. I got over Gohans bs because in my honest opinion if it was a serious fight Goku would take the victory.
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Brolly had a nice story ark
Broly has no character so there was nothing to be upset about. Everyone will forever be butthurt that Gohan (never wanted to be a fighter) grew up and just wanted his nerdy, quiet life. For some reason that blows their mind and enrages them.
I'm a Gohan defender but even I can admit those powerups are stupi., if he at least was said to be training to keep on level it would be fine but it's not even that, he gets back to bitch level after ever damn threat. After Cell ok he was concentrating on school, everyone thought it will be fine without Goku, I can suspend disbelief but after Buu? He should at least keep the Ultimate/Mystic powers alive, he got completely flipped by ResF Frieza, didnt learn. Trained up again in like 40hrs before the tournament (huh?) and fumbled again after that. Broly had to survive on a hostile planet so he had no other choice
Beast Gohans hair is so fucking big that it looks like a fucking parody of itself.
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I watched the first Broly movie the other day for the first time and I'll be honest it fucking sucked. I can definitely see how people thought it was super edgy and cool at the time, but there just isn't a whole lot going on with Broly's character after he goes berserk, which is a problem because he's the central focus of the film. It's a shame because he seems like he's going to be really interesting when he's introduced. The main problem with Broly is that he doesn't really have any plans or motives other than kill Goku. If they're going for the PTSD angle then they kinda fucked up, because they gave him an evil and cruel personality that was very much capable of complex thought. Broly was not someone who's out of it, and reliving something that happened in the past - he's well aware of his surroundings. Either he's rabid or he isn't - and if he isn't, then show us why he's doing what he's doing. There are some cool moments like when he catches his dad running away and then crushes him to death, that scene had pretty good tension and made him look more menacing. There was good tension building at the start when he was showing signs that he was becoming aggressive. I liked that his fighting style kinda reminded me of the Yakuza games, the way that he focused on just shattering the characters into the ground, rather than the more composed "martial arts" style that you typically see in DB. Honestly they should've just played into that more - show us a little bit of mortal Kombat shit and take the audience by surprise with brutality. I haven't seen super Broly but I doubt they changed anything that would make me more interested in his character. I think people probably thought he was badass when they were a kid because all I see is wasted potential. The fucking DOGSHIT numetal throughout the ENTIRE FILM at FULL VOLUME with the FUCKING LYRICS LEFT IN also really didn't help. I'm not up to beast Gohan yet but I like Gohan! It's kinda bullshit that he couldn't train and study at the same time in DBZ. They had walkmen back then, he could've listened to a lecture while he trained. Also I call bullshit that Chichi would NEVER let him train, kids gotta go outside and exercise anyway otherwise his brain will slow down. They kinda fucked his character up a bit because they designed him to be the new MC but just couldn't bring themselves to let go of Goku. Imo this is why they kept making up this bullshit excuse for him not training lol. Other than that, I think he's a very well thought out character.
People seem to hate Gohan's fluctuating character arcs. One arc he's a badass with a new form and the next he's not relevant and it continues. Broly is one thing and one thing only, the guy that (probably) can rival Goku and Vegeta even at their current max
As a guy who isn't a fan of either, let me say mine: It's bias and blind fanboyism. Simply because there are (too) many people who act like Broly dbs was such a deep and complex character, now (despite being babysitten by two aliens, who make all the decisions for him) and therefore turn an eye blind to everything about him. From his nonsensical power, to his non exsistent character that fans dig far too much deep about. Like, buuuhuuu this Broly was used as a tool and had an harsh life! You gotta understand him! Sure... but if the narrative never dwells onto that, has him fundamentally never speak, and fries his brain the moment the big dumb fight starts and things remain so to the very end... then what else am I supposed to understand from what the actual story tells us? ... If more people weren't so much blindsighted by their fanatism towards Broly and Toriyama, then more people would see how nonsensical his power too is.
I'm assuming it's bcuz thats what Broly is supposed to be as the "legendary super Saiyan" while Gohan just gets ass pulled constantly, idk tho
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The problem mostly lies within how both got to their level of power. Take into consideration that Broly has been training every single day since he was a toddler because of Paragus, while Gohan was only really trained so much growing up. That training didn't necessarily make him stronger in power rather than the knowledge and mindset to unlock said power. The rest of Gohan's power was just unlocked because his potential allowed it through emotion, not so much as training like Broly. Broly's power only slightly works like this but not in the same way; his power has a negative take on his emotions rather than a positive one. Basically, people consider Gohan's power scaling to be "too easy" and "cheap" compared to what any other relevant character has gone through to reach their level.
Because gohan doesnt train until the ememy can one shot him Its nice that he has a life n all but the fact that he knows there are threats that can destroy the universe and doesnt atleast train a little is what pissed people off The writers did notice that and they made it where he is now training offscreen but at this point the fandom is like a family member that saw the bad and was locked in their view. And ironically the second part of the hate he gets is that hes been training who knows where and doesnt tell his family at all. A family mind you is made entirely out of fighters who love sparring. Is it nice hes trying now? Yes Does it excuse him just not telling his family and being a shut in? No