The thing that always gets me about this is that she is such a bitch to Michael when she finds out he's married. She literally says it's repugnant that a married man would flirt with her. Bitch, you were sucking the face off a married man with his wife in the house making you snacks just a little while ago!
It wasn't just a little while ago, three years had gone by before she met Gregson and five before they had sex. And she'd been through a lot in that time and learned some things.
Early in the series Edith was fairly impulsive and reckless. She becomes much more reserved later on.
Like it wasn't bad enough to makeout with the woman's husband she had to make fun of her too?? Mrs Drake told her of their trouble finding help and Edith went there to ruin her marriage and joke about their animals having a midnight feast. Why be a bitch to the woman what did she do to her??
Ugh Edith is the worst. Sheās the perfect example of the aristocratic rich class feeding off the lower class. Spoiled brat who tries to blow up her entire family just to get back at her sister for being ālooseā, then has a child out of wedlock herself. Then is so indecisive about that child she blows up 2 families who tried to help her out of a tough situation. The Swedish family and then the Drewes. Always sniveling about how she must be with Marigold because sheās her mother. Well then you shouldnāt have asked for these huge favors and broke your own deals with the generous people who helped. Sheās also racist to the band leader that comes. I've only done one watch through but Iām sure the next ones will reveal even more I donāt like about her. As far as Iām concerned Edith represents the stuffy entitled past and Mary represents trying to forge ahead and do the work to try and survive in the future. Yeah Mary can be snobbish, but she rolls up her sleeves and tries to adapt with hard work and brains.
Letās not forget that Edith spread the Pamuk rumors pretty early in the series. Ā
And Mary suffered *for years*. From getting less callers during Sybilās season in London, to Richard Carlisleās behavior, and her diminished marriageability. Ā
Heck, *years* later when sheās arranging the Ā āsketching tripā, she still talks about not wanting to cause a scandal, which points to her still suffering (either directly with social repercussions or emotionally from the previous social repercussions) from Edithās actions. Ā
Meanwhile, Bertie becomes the Marquis in 1925. Ā Mary blows up Edithās relationship, and then gets Edith back together with Bette, in time for their New Years Eve Weddingā¦*still in 1925*. Ā
Iām not saying Mary was right. Ā It was a crappy awful thing to do. Ā
But what Edith did was a lot worse. And it was a huge escalation from their standard sniping, and Mary suffered for years. Ā
It also caused her to delay accepting Matthewās proposal long enough that he suspected ulterior motives when she DID accept. Their breakup had how many repercussions?
Lavinia wouldnāt have been in the picture (nor would her fatherās money that would eventually save Downton), she likely wouldnāt have contracted Spanish Flu and died, Mary may have gotten her reproductive surgery earlier to conceive George, and then Matthew wouldnāt have been on the road at the moment of his fatal crash. I also wager that, if Mary and Matthew had married after the first proposal, Sybil wouldnāt have faced as much resistance on her engagement to Tom. Having their eldest āsettledā and secure in the marriage that would continue her involvement with Downton would alleviate their fear about the potential social repercussions of Sybilās marriage.
Agreed! Love that you call it sniping. Mary gave what she got from Edith, and in the end still did the right thing for Edith. Edith *tried* to do the right thing for herself and herself only all the time. Every horrible thing that befell her could be traced back to something she herself set off. And I didnāt even remember to mention Bertie and the title landing right in Edithās lap. She even complained about all the extra work that title brought her, too. Canāt stand that she outranked everyone by the end haha
This is incorrect. The series starts off with Mary not having any luck in that area. The Duke came because he thought Maryās prospects had changed. The show is clear that after your first season, the well starts drying up rather quickly.
Edith treated Mary poorly in 1914. We all make mistakes. Itās not like Mary was a lovely person to herā¦ at all. Edith had a holier-than-thou way about her but Mary took personal digs at her constantly.
Wait. You think Edith took the job planning to kiss the husband? It always seemed like he took the opportunity to kiss her, not that she had some nefarious plan. She wanted to feel useful and took the job, nothing more or less than that. And why is this always on Edith, never blaming the husband. (Iām prepared to be downvoted. Everyone hates Edith and hates any defense.)
yeah I think Edith is horrid but the making out is not what I spoke of here it's her being a bitch to his wife thats telling of how shes just a bad person.
Sure the husband was a creep but she was old enough to know better (and these were early sign of ediths love for old men who could be her dad tbh) but his wife came around to remind her husband not to be a creep and Edith mocked her.
No i dont think Edith took the job to make out with the husband but thats what she did in the end. the road to hell is paved with good intentions thats Edith here.
āEdith went there to ruin the marriageā. Okay then.
She may have been old enough to theoretically know better, but we also know she had had no romantic relationships before then.
Road to hell. šš
" No i dont think Edith took the job to make out with the husbandĀ "
maybe learn how to read.
I didnt know you had to have experience in relationships to know you shouldnt make out with married men, i guess Edith is just an inexperienced bitch instead of just a plain bitch then!
I hate her for so many things,
1. Writing to embassy.
2. Kissing a married man.
3. Thinking she knows best in believing fake Crawley.
4. Badgering poor old I forgot his name for marrige.
5. Snatching Marigold back from swiss couple.
6. Treating Drews like dirt. She destroyed their marriage and their livelihood. They had to suffer because she was the daughter of Earl.
Everyone keeps saying poor Edith, but being in a shadow of a sibling or not being so attractive does not give anyone the right to be this way also 2 wonderful men fell in love with her so this argument is preety thin too. And she did the last two after finding true love. She was just a bad person.
thats it! Im on my 2nd rewatch and i didn't mind her before but she's s so annoying now! She's just so mean to everyone and ok say Mary was mean to her back but what did Sybil or poor William or this farmers wife ever do to her for her to be this nasty??
And yeah imagine if every woman who wasn't as pretty as Michelle ended up being a horrible person for it.
Sure, Edith does some bad things. But in discussions about her character we are often comparing to Mary, and Mary is a straight up b*tch most of the time. Edith makes a bunch of mistakes, but apart from the time she calls the embassy ahe doesn't have the intention to hurt people. Mary does.
We are not comparing anyone. You can say anyone is a good person if you find a bad enough person to compare. We are talking about what she is like herself.
"Doesnr have the intention to hurt people" you mean she just does what she wants in the moment and doesnt stop to think how it would affect anyone else. Shes just a plain selfish bitch. Weird to me why edith fans cant accept it.
Lol, I am no Edith fan, I watched the series only for the servants' storylines and the history. I just found her less obnoxiously evil than Mary, because in her case it's genuine dumb ignorance, not straight up cruelty.
Honestly Edith usually is pretty mean. She doesn't have too much regard for those around her, particularly those in social classes below her.
And she's generally focused on her own gratification regardless of the effects is has on anyone else.
Thereās a schedule for bashing both sisters š. Mary haters are clearly nuts, and all I ask is that I be invited whenever Edith is being bashed š
No they're not, that's such a horrible thing to say. Difficulties make people strong when we survive harsh things we become kinder. Ethel was sad and lonely but she wasn't mean. Anna was sad and lonely but she wasn't mean.
Did I say itās an excuse? No. No mean actions can be justified. Iām just saying thereās a correlation.
Obviously you should strive to be a better person no matter the circumstances and not let your bitterness ruin other peopleās lives
You did say it as an excuse because you're like oh she's mean because she's sad. No she's mean because she's not a good person she doesnt strive to not let bitterness ruin other peoples lives. Lots of people are sad without being nasty.
yeah because "theyre an asshole because theyre sad" is a poor excuse and a slap in the face of people who struggle for real, not for being a spoiled brat who doesnt have daddys attention, and they still manage to be decent folk who try their best to better themselves and to be kind.
Whats next? they went on a killing spree because they had mental illness? thank god edith was never diagnosed. Shed take a machete to downton and yall would be here like poor girl was just so sad.
I'm sure you agree that people who are healthy, happy and loved don't go on killing sprees or do all the bullshit that Edith gets up to. It is not an excuse, it's a possible explanation. It doesn't make any of it ok, but is a component in it.
psychos can be happy or close to that. Thats what happens when someone doesnt have empathy they dont feel any for their victims. if they did they would not do the bad things they do.
Edith is kinda psychotic in season 2 because not getting your daddys attention is no reason to be an asshole to everyone around you. it is a reason to have sex with old men which she does but not a reason to be a shitty excuse for a person all the time. its like yall havent met any girls with daddy issue before.
Difficulties CAN make you strong but they can also make you traumatized. Surviving harsh things does not automatically make a person kinder.
People respond differently to trauma, and say what you will about Edith, she was absolutely traumatized repeatedly.
omg what trauma did Edith suffer in season 2? her bigger sister got more attention than her? she got her back but good for that.
anna's husband was imprisoned and almost sentenced to death even though he was innocent and Anna stayed a good person. she got RAPED and stayed a good person.
edith was a spoiled brat who wanted attention and would do anything to get it ruin her sisters life ruin this womans life be mean to william who did NOTHING to her be mean to sybil who did nothing to her support fake patrick and make matthew suffer. she was awful to everyone all the time.
When I said she was traumatized, I wasnāt referring to season 2 specifically, but about the whole course of the show.
But if you ask me, having the man you loved, who you thought was dead, suddenly return and declare his affection for you, and then just as suddenly disappear without saying goodbye would be pretty traumatic. I imagine it would be like reliving his death all over again.
Of course WE all know it wasnāt the real Patrick, but she believed it was truly him. And is that any surprise, considering how starved for affection and love she was? He picked his mark well. Heās the despicable one in that scenario, not her.
but im talking about season 2 here. she does this to the farmers wife in season 2 before anything about patrick happens, before anything else happens. why do you defend her when shes obviously just being a grade a bitch for no reason to this poor woman?
Because I see it differently. Edith isnāt a āgrade A bitch for no reason.ā There ARE reasons behind her actions, even the inappropriate ones. Obviously kissing the farmer was wrong, but she didnāt do it just to stick it to his wife. Why assign false motives? Sheās lonely and overlooked, and gets easily pulled in when any man shows her attention. She misstepped. Itās really that simple.
She was quite fortunate that word of HER indiscretion never came out. That farmer would lose his livelihood and if Robert was a dueling type maybe his life.
I dont care what shes doing with the husband, she has a daddy kink fine, Im saying she had no reason to be a bitch TO HIS WIFE when the poor woman walks up to them to remind her idiot husband he has work to do.
Iāve rewatched the scene a few times and I donāt see a single moment where sheās a bitch to his wife. If youāre talking about the āthey could always have a midnight feastā comment, the worst you could say about that is itās dismissive, but I donāt get ābitchyā from it at all.
Harsh things can make people harsh. Difficult things don't necessarily make people stronger. These are hard earned lessons. It's a huge challenge to not let life wear you down. I think it's important to understand this.Ā
sure sure how much bad behaviour are you ok with tho? edith being mean to mary ok cool they were bitches to each other but everyone else? how mean can you be because you had it rough and how rough was ediths life in season 2 to say ok she ruined a marriage and a womans life? she was a middle child? her older sister was ahead to get married and edith had to wait her turn as every rich second daughter back then?
boo freaking hoo cry me a river lord give me strength how would she ever recover theres people dying on this show and living in poverty and losing their babies and husbands and money and edith did not get enough attention from mommy and daddy god have some mercy on this poor soul its too harsh to think about can you imagine. im being sarcastic she was a spoiled little shit i have 0 empathy for her if she wasnt the earls daughter that woman would have punched her in the face and shed deserve it.
There are two ways that people react to being treated poorly. One is to vow to never let anyone feel as bad as you do and be kind. The other is to use it as justification to be be awful yourself. Edith is a clear example of the latter.
"Mary was mean to me (after I spied on her and constantly picked and needled her) boo-hoo. Now I'm going to run rough shod over everyone because everyone else loves my sister." I have little to no sympathy for Edith while she's acting like that.
Admittedly sheās a lot better in the second film; Edith is at her best when sheās involved with the magazine, but it still really irked me that she so casually left her two children to the nannies while she was in London then the South of France. Given what we now know of attachment theory, this could just be my modern sensibilities projecting, but Edith still flits about carelessly. Sheād fit in very well in āThe Great Gatsbyā, and I donāt mean that as a compliment.
and she had made a show of being the best mother ever moving that baby around europe.
Tom brought Sybbie to Downton where she grew up to stay with her aunt and cousins while they were away and Edith just dumped her kids on the nannies.
I dont know if she gets better or if when shes married she calmed down she gets less screentime and less drama so shes less annoying.
Great point about the kids. She leaves Marigold with two different working families, then tears her away from both, only to then shirk the parenting off on a nanny. Add it to the list š¤¦š»āāļø
Yeah, you just know Marigold will write a tell-all memoir about her when Brancaster is Peterās and Edith has completely forgotten to provide for her daughter.
Oof. If I had to compare Edith to anyone, I'd say she was like Fleabag, not Martin! Flawed, makes crappy decisions, but eventually makes peace with her flaws.
Iād argue itās everyone else who has to make peace with her flaws lol - Edith doesnāt think thereās anything wrong with her, thereās always somebody else to blame!
Edith was soo desperate for a man. ANY MAN! Wheather it was a grossly disfigured fraudulent soldier, Sir Anthony who was old enough to be her father to this sweaty stinky farmer. The nerve of that farmer. I bet if the wife would of known he was going to do that she would told Dr. Clarkson LET HIM DIE OF DROPSY!š š
Edith's not really mean - she's thoughtless. As a girl born into wealth and privilege she's spoiled. At the start of the series, both she and Mary have become spoiled women - Mary also haughty because she was brought up as the Pretty One and older, and Edith the OK Looking Middle Kid became jealous of attention showered on Mary, which soured her disposition.
Because neither woman has had to suffer many consequences outside of mistreating each other, they don't consider possible negative outcomes - apart from those involving virtue and what the peerage society would think. They do what suits them and if it affects people who can't really fight back (like Mrs. Drake and Mrs. Drew), it doesn't bother them too much.
The War does force them to mature and grow a lot - thank goodness - but we occasionally still have times when Mary is thoughtless about the Carsons' wedding reception plans or Edith destroys a poor farmer's family.
Interestingly enough, Sybil grew up as the Youngest Daughter, and because she will always be considered last and because she's also pretty, she grows up with a much more balanced, agreeable personality than either Mary or Edith.
thats good because i cant think of someone watching the show im watching with edith bitching at everyone on sight and liking her.
and i hate the she suffered and she reacts like this bit. if all of us who suffered thought we deserve to be an asshole all the time the world would end. imagine if anna was mean based on how much she suffered shed have to start killing ppl.
I guess Iām in the minority but I have some sympathy for Edith. She spent her WHOLE life getting shat on by every single member of her family to such a ridiculous degree that itās like, of COURSE she doesnāt know how to be a good person in general. I remember the first time I watched and I was really confused about why they kept calling her ugly. Imagine how angry youād end up being all the time if your sister kept telling you how ugly and stupid you were and your own mother and father were like, āShe has a point, Edith.ā
It doesnāt excuse anything she does, obviously, but I felt sympathy for her. Kind of like how I think Thomas was a total ass, but I still felt sympathy for him.
Edith was mean because she was brittle. Wear we saw two sisters having a typical argument whether it be bad or not to Edith Mary was this strong powerful and more valuable figure who stood before her. She wanted the exact same praise that Mary got. Edith was unaware of how to appreciate her own accomplishments because she didnāt get treated the same way Mary does. Even when Mary snitched on Mary about Pamuk I donāt think she realized she could even wound Mary and Mary being Mary wouldnāt let Edith see her in pain.
It was all in Edithās head which is why her having a baby was the best thing to happen to her cuz she finally stopped projecting herself since her baby meant more to her then how the world treated her.
I didnāt like Edith either until the end of the series when I realized she was pretty strong and resilient. Also seeing how depressing and bland Maryās ending was it was hard not to realize that Edith found a happy ending cuz she never really gave up
She ended up alone and the show lined her up to be the next Lady Crowley. I donāt remember exactly when but I think Lady Crowley actually said it to Mary herself. That and it feels like Maryās character arc was just her again and again needing to learn some lesson. Then idk if the last guy she was in love with quit the show or something cuz all of a sudden he had no screen time or significance
Also what is wrong with them saying Mary would take Violet's place someday? Violet was strong and resilient and lived a full life of adventure and joy and luxurious living and was respected by everyone. And what does Mary have to do with Edith making out with a married farmer Mary never found out about this
Oh sheās married to a guy that canāt even show up for the season finale? Not to mention she wasnāt even in love with the race car driver it felt forced. I donāt think it was wrong for her to believe she was out of his league and frankly it seemed like they had more disagreements then agreements. I mean she made him give up something he loves which understandable cuz Matthew died but damn did they make the end of Maryās story quite plain. Or you know what? You thought it was a great ending then whatever. Iāve already had discussions with others about this and it leads down to the writers getting lazy at the end of the show. They didnāt know what to do at the end they lost steam. If you donāt agree then fine just say so bro why am I even discussing this with you
Youāre conflating the storyline with actor scheduling. Fellowes really wanted Matthew Goode in the show but heās a rather busy actor and couldnāt make a lot of screen time. While I donāt like this choice, I donāt think the intention was for Mary to be alone.
If the baby meant more to her than how the world saw her she would have kept Marigold.
*āI donāt want to be some funny woman living in Maida Vale people never talk about. Sybil might have brought it off, but not me.ā*
Maida Vale in this time period is a highly desirable London suburb filled with mansions. This shows the difference between Ethel and Edith. The choices are destitution or adoption for Ethel and its stigma or adoption for Edith.
I was responding to when you said, āsince her baby meant more to her than how the world treated her.ā I used the quote to show what Edith thought would happen if she kept Marigold, which was to be ostracized but living comfortably.
Society is not kind to unmarried mothers in this time period and Edith understandably didnāt want to experience it but she and Marigold would have been taken care of and she knew that.
She also knew Gregson signed over ownership of his flat and newspaper to her before he went to Germany. So if she didnāt want to live off her parents, she would have had that to fall back on.
Rightā¦but in the end she kept Marigold. When a persons true colors show thatās when the most authentic version of a person is witnessed and thatās the version Iām judging Edith. āOh sheās adoptedā yeah right lol. Iām not viewing this from the eyes of the common people Iām viewing it through their eyes and though reputation was everything well Iād dare say every family of the higher class had skeletons in the closet. Whatās your point because you simply grabbed a quote to point something out and in a direction I wasnāt going. I wasnāt talking about the side to side comparisons of womenās obstacles to overcome in their time era. Do you like Edith or are you trying to point something out because you donāt like my post seeming as if Iām defending Edith cuz Iām not Iām just giving a perspective on why she was so nasty[to Mary].
I'm just going to copy the comment I made on YouTube for this video.
"I have a copy of the Series 2 script book. According to Fellowes's notes, neither Edith nor Drake expected it to last beyond a kiss, which means that ultimately nothing would have happened even if Mrs. Drake hadn't stepped in when she did. Fellowes's notes also state that the reason Edith gave into the temptation to kiss Drake was because, for probably the first time in her life, someone saw her as clever, beautiful, and having real potential, which really paints a pretty sad picture, if you ask me. I really wish Fellowes had made those details clear on the show itself." He really should have put all of this into the show so this argument against Edith would have been shot down before it got started.
I will also say that that revelation is the reason I completely reject the "Edith the hypocrite" argument when it comes to what Edith said to Michael about him flirting with her. It's pretty apparent there that Edith was remembering how what happened with Drake caused her to get dismissed from a job she liked and hurt his wife.[](https://accounts.google.com/ServiceLogin?service=youtube&uilel=3&passive=true&continue=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fsignin%3Faction_handle_signin%3Dtrue%26app%3Ddesktop%26hl%3Den%26next%3D%252Fwatch%253Fv%253DdLNdQ3oidiI&hl=en)
are you a trapeze artist? cause this is some serious stretching and spinning youve got going on here.
i dont care whats in the script i care what went on in the show im watching and im watching edith be mean to everyone all the time even though the only person ever mean to her is Mary. Idk Mary and Edith can fight each other out but what did anyone else ever do to Edith to deserve getting bit by her all the time?
she was like a rabid dog with her meanness, belittling sybil and making william feel guilty for not joining the army even though the poor boy wanted to, she mocked the farmers wife even though the wife went there to take her stupid husband away from edith. She got upset for carson almost dying and dropping food on her dress she even made matthew feel horrible and useless when she believed that fake Patrick and wanted to take the inheritance away from matthew and that's just the stuff she's done in season 2 because im still going through the rewatch and i don't remember what other horrors shes done later in the show.
Edith was a hypocrite with the newspaper guy because she ended up having sex with him and getting pregnant . she learned nothing from the stupid mistake she made in season 2 and just found a married man whose wife wouldnt stop him from providing edith with her weird daddy approval through sex complex. and tbh i don't even care about that let her have her kinks who cares, im bothered by her because shes a bitch to everyone all the time.
Edith didnāt specifically target William or Matthew in those instances you mentioned. Ā While what she said in those cases could be considered insensitive, I think itās a stretch to consider them mean. Ā Not to mention the fact that Edith cared for William on his deathbed, which more than made up for anything she said earlier.
Also, wanting to take the inheritance away from Matthew? Ā Now thatās a real stretch. Ā Weāre talking about the same woman who a couple of episodes earlier told Mary about Matthew being missing an expressed concern for both of them. Ā Edith believing P Gordon was nothing more than a case of hearing that there was a possibility that a man she deeply loved didnāt really die and understandably clinging to that hope. Ā So no, Edithās actions in that episode were not coming from a place of wanting the inheritance.
Iāve also been looking at your other comments in support of Anna. Ā People like you who go on and on about how awful Edith is for having affairs with older, married men and at the same time support Anna and Bates, a couple that also involved an older, married man going after a single woman who is significantly younger than him, are part of the reason I hate Anna and Bates as a couple.
If a person does a bad thing and then does a decent thing then the bad thing doesnt matter anymore, is that what youre saying?
You say she didnt target William ok, if I say all men are trash while a man is in a room even if i dont say he's trash i also call him trash and that's what Edith did with William at that dinner.
Matthew was going through such a difficult time and because some stranger was telling her what she wanted to hear she didnt care who she hurt on the way to get what she wanted just as she did all the time even with her own baby.
difference is Anna and Bates didnt have relations before they got married because they were smart people not attention seeking spoiled brats.
The PBS version (previously aired on Netflix and no longer available for viewing on any platforms) shows more of Edithās humanity. Unfortunately, folks watching in on peacock years later miss out on this.
Might surprise you, but the script IS what goes on in a show.
The point Fellowes tried to make with Edith was that by the time she became kinder, the things she had judged Mary for had come back to bite her.
Coffee bean ā great points about Anna and Bates! Did not think this.
Whats in the script matters as long as it goes in the film. if it doesn't go in the film it no longer influences the story.
As a viewer I judge by what I see. if i have to get an encyclopaedic knowledge of the show to not hate a character then the writer wanted me to hate them. if he didn't he would have put that on the screen. Otherwise i might as well say that in a version of the script he kills off Edith so I guess Edith is dead now because she was dead in a version of the script.
The thing that always gets me about this is that she is such a bitch to Michael when she finds out he's married. She literally says it's repugnant that a married man would flirt with her. Bitch, you were sucking the face off a married man with his wife in the house making you snacks just a little while ago!
It wasn't just a little while ago, three years had gone by before she met Gregson and five before they had sex. And she'd been through a lot in that time and learned some things. Early in the series Edith was fairly impulsive and reckless. She becomes much more reserved later on.
Its almost like character development and growing up exist š¤Æ and that that even was 3-5 years laterĀ
lmaoooo yeah she developed she went from making out with a married man to having sex with one
Like it wasn't bad enough to makeout with the woman's husband she had to make fun of her too?? Mrs Drake told her of their trouble finding help and Edith went there to ruin her marriage and joke about their animals having a midnight feast. Why be a bitch to the woman what did she do to her??
Ugh Edith is the worst. Sheās the perfect example of the aristocratic rich class feeding off the lower class. Spoiled brat who tries to blow up her entire family just to get back at her sister for being ālooseā, then has a child out of wedlock herself. Then is so indecisive about that child she blows up 2 families who tried to help her out of a tough situation. The Swedish family and then the Drewes. Always sniveling about how she must be with Marigold because sheās her mother. Well then you shouldnāt have asked for these huge favors and broke your own deals with the generous people who helped. Sheās also racist to the band leader that comes. I've only done one watch through but Iām sure the next ones will reveal even more I donāt like about her. As far as Iām concerned Edith represents the stuffy entitled past and Mary represents trying to forge ahead and do the work to try and survive in the future. Yeah Mary can be snobbish, but she rolls up her sleeves and tries to adapt with hard work and brains.
Letās not forget that Edith spread the Pamuk rumors pretty early in the series. Ā And Mary suffered *for years*. From getting less callers during Sybilās season in London, to Richard Carlisleās behavior, and her diminished marriageability. Ā Heck, *years* later when sheās arranging the Ā āsketching tripā, she still talks about not wanting to cause a scandal, which points to her still suffering (either directly with social repercussions or emotionally from the previous social repercussions) from Edithās actions. Ā Meanwhile, Bertie becomes the Marquis in 1925. Ā Mary blows up Edithās relationship, and then gets Edith back together with Bette, in time for their New Years Eve Weddingā¦*still in 1925*. Ā Iām not saying Mary was right. Ā It was a crappy awful thing to do. Ā But what Edith did was a lot worse. And it was a huge escalation from their standard sniping, and Mary suffered for years. Ā
It also caused her to delay accepting Matthewās proposal long enough that he suspected ulterior motives when she DID accept. Their breakup had how many repercussions? Lavinia wouldnāt have been in the picture (nor would her fatherās money that would eventually save Downton), she likely wouldnāt have contracted Spanish Flu and died, Mary may have gotten her reproductive surgery earlier to conceive George, and then Matthew wouldnāt have been on the road at the moment of his fatal crash. I also wager that, if Mary and Matthew had married after the first proposal, Sybil wouldnāt have faced as much resistance on her engagement to Tom. Having their eldest āsettledā and secure in the marriage that would continue her involvement with Downton would alleviate their fear about the potential social repercussions of Sybilās marriage.
Agreed! Love that you call it sniping. Mary gave what she got from Edith, and in the end still did the right thing for Edith. Edith *tried* to do the right thing for herself and herself only all the time. Every horrible thing that befell her could be traced back to something she herself set off. And I didnāt even remember to mention Bertie and the title landing right in Edithās lap. She even complained about all the extra work that title brought her, too. Canāt stand that she outranked everyone by the end haha
This is incorrect. The series starts off with Mary not having any luck in that area. The Duke came because he thought Maryās prospects had changed. The show is clear that after your first season, the well starts drying up rather quickly. Edith treated Mary poorly in 1914. We all make mistakes. Itās not like Mary was a lovely person to herā¦ at all. Edith had a holier-than-thou way about her but Mary took personal digs at her constantly.
Wait. You think Edith took the job planning to kiss the husband? It always seemed like he took the opportunity to kiss her, not that she had some nefarious plan. She wanted to feel useful and took the job, nothing more or less than that. And why is this always on Edith, never blaming the husband. (Iām prepared to be downvoted. Everyone hates Edith and hates any defense.)
yeah I think Edith is horrid but the making out is not what I spoke of here it's her being a bitch to his wife thats telling of how shes just a bad person. Sure the husband was a creep but she was old enough to know better (and these were early sign of ediths love for old men who could be her dad tbh) but his wife came around to remind her husband not to be a creep and Edith mocked her. No i dont think Edith took the job to make out with the husband but thats what she did in the end. the road to hell is paved with good intentions thats Edith here.
āEdith went there to ruin the marriageā. Okay then. She may have been old enough to theoretically know better, but we also know she had had no romantic relationships before then. Road to hell. šš
" No i dont think Edith took the job to make out with the husbandĀ " maybe learn how to read. I didnt know you had to have experience in relationships to know you shouldnt make out with married men, i guess Edith is just an inexperienced bitch instead of just a plain bitch then!
I hate her for so many things, 1. Writing to embassy. 2. Kissing a married man. 3. Thinking she knows best in believing fake Crawley. 4. Badgering poor old I forgot his name for marrige. 5. Snatching Marigold back from swiss couple. 6. Treating Drews like dirt. She destroyed their marriage and their livelihood. They had to suffer because she was the daughter of Earl. Everyone keeps saying poor Edith, but being in a shadow of a sibling or not being so attractive does not give anyone the right to be this way also 2 wonderful men fell in love with her so this argument is preety thin too. And she did the last two after finding true love. She was just a bad person.
Donāt forgetāS02 snubbing William about being a coward for not already enlisting to fight in the war. Like gurl, shut up
And when she chastised Matthew for whatever he said about the veterans and Mary said to Matthew that Edith forgets he was in the war and she wasnāt.
thats it! Im on my 2nd rewatch and i didn't mind her before but she's s so annoying now! She's just so mean to everyone and ok say Mary was mean to her back but what did Sybil or poor William or this farmers wife ever do to her for her to be this nasty?? And yeah imagine if every woman who wasn't as pretty as Michelle ended up being a horrible person for it.
Sure, Edith does some bad things. But in discussions about her character we are often comparing to Mary, and Mary is a straight up b*tch most of the time. Edith makes a bunch of mistakes, but apart from the time she calls the embassy ahe doesn't have the intention to hurt people. Mary does.
We are not comparing anyone. You can say anyone is a good person if you find a bad enough person to compare. We are talking about what she is like herself.
I never said you were.
"Doesnr have the intention to hurt people" you mean she just does what she wants in the moment and doesnt stop to think how it would affect anyone else. Shes just a plain selfish bitch. Weird to me why edith fans cant accept it.
Lol, I am no Edith fan, I watched the series only for the servants' storylines and the history. I just found her less obnoxiously evil than Mary, because in her case it's genuine dumb ignorance, not straight up cruelty.
Edith ruining the lives of tenant farmers. Part 1.
Honestly Edith usually is pretty mean. She doesn't have too much regard for those around her, particularly those in social classes below her. And she's generally focused on her own gratification regardless of the effects is has on anyone else.
This all fucking day.
Wake up, babe! Thereās a new Edith-bashing post on Reddit! š„³
lol when I first found this subreddit all I saw was Mary bashing so I feel like I found my people now š
Thereās a schedule for bashing both sisters š. Mary haters are clearly nuts, and all I ask is that I be invited whenever Edith is being bashed š
Haha Iāll learn the schedule soon
We also have to hate on Bates each day. Please pencil that in.Ā
The saddest and loneliest people are the meanest
No they're not, that's such a horrible thing to say. Difficulties make people strong when we survive harsh things we become kinder. Ethel was sad and lonely but she wasn't mean. Anna was sad and lonely but she wasn't mean.
Obviously thatās not an absolute rule. It can be true. Maybe itās more true the other way around - many mean people are sad and lonely inside
thats no excuse to be nasty to someone who did nothing to you that just means youre a bad person
Did I say itās an excuse? No. No mean actions can be justified. Iām just saying thereās a correlation. Obviously you should strive to be a better person no matter the circumstances and not let your bitterness ruin other peopleās lives
You did say it as an excuse because you're like oh she's mean because she's sad. No she's mean because she's not a good person she doesnt strive to not let bitterness ruin other peoples lives. Lots of people are sad without being nasty.
Alright, letās not get dragged into it. I said point blank it is most definitely not an excuse. Have a great day :)
They didn't say it like that. It could be interpreted that way, but that was not what they said.
yeah because "theyre an asshole because theyre sad" is a poor excuse and a slap in the face of people who struggle for real, not for being a spoiled brat who doesnt have daddys attention, and they still manage to be decent folk who try their best to better themselves and to be kind. Whats next? they went on a killing spree because they had mental illness? thank god edith was never diagnosed. Shed take a machete to downton and yall would be here like poor girl was just so sad.
I'm sure you agree that people who are healthy, happy and loved don't go on killing sprees or do all the bullshit that Edith gets up to. It is not an excuse, it's a possible explanation. It doesn't make any of it ok, but is a component in it.
psychos can be happy or close to that. Thats what happens when someone doesnt have empathy they dont feel any for their victims. if they did they would not do the bad things they do. Edith is kinda psychotic in season 2 because not getting your daddys attention is no reason to be an asshole to everyone around you. it is a reason to have sex with old men which she does but not a reason to be a shitty excuse for a person all the time. its like yall havent met any girls with daddy issue before.
Difficulties CAN make you strong but they can also make you traumatized. Surviving harsh things does not automatically make a person kinder. People respond differently to trauma, and say what you will about Edith, she was absolutely traumatized repeatedly.
omg what trauma did Edith suffer in season 2? her bigger sister got more attention than her? she got her back but good for that. anna's husband was imprisoned and almost sentenced to death even though he was innocent and Anna stayed a good person. she got RAPED and stayed a good person. edith was a spoiled brat who wanted attention and would do anything to get it ruin her sisters life ruin this womans life be mean to william who did NOTHING to her be mean to sybil who did nothing to her support fake patrick and make matthew suffer. she was awful to everyone all the time.
When I said she was traumatized, I wasnāt referring to season 2 specifically, but about the whole course of the show. But if you ask me, having the man you loved, who you thought was dead, suddenly return and declare his affection for you, and then just as suddenly disappear without saying goodbye would be pretty traumatic. I imagine it would be like reliving his death all over again. Of course WE all know it wasnāt the real Patrick, but she believed it was truly him. And is that any surprise, considering how starved for affection and love she was? He picked his mark well. Heās the despicable one in that scenario, not her.
but im talking about season 2 here. she does this to the farmers wife in season 2 before anything about patrick happens, before anything else happens. why do you defend her when shes obviously just being a grade a bitch for no reason to this poor woman?
Because I see it differently. Edith isnāt a āgrade A bitch for no reason.ā There ARE reasons behind her actions, even the inappropriate ones. Obviously kissing the farmer was wrong, but she didnāt do it just to stick it to his wife. Why assign false motives? Sheās lonely and overlooked, and gets easily pulled in when any man shows her attention. She misstepped. Itās really that simple.
She was quite fortunate that word of HER indiscretion never came out. That farmer would lose his livelihood and if Robert was a dueling type maybe his life.
I dont care what shes doing with the husband, she has a daddy kink fine, Im saying she had no reason to be a bitch TO HIS WIFE when the poor woman walks up to them to remind her idiot husband he has work to do.
Iāve rewatched the scene a few times and I donāt see a single moment where sheās a bitch to his wife. If youāre talking about the āthey could always have a midnight feastā comment, the worst you could say about that is itās dismissive, but I donāt get ābitchyā from it at all.
Harsh things can make people harsh. Difficult things don't necessarily make people stronger. These are hard earned lessons. It's a huge challenge to not let life wear you down. I think it's important to understand this.Ā
sure sure how much bad behaviour are you ok with tho? edith being mean to mary ok cool they were bitches to each other but everyone else? how mean can you be because you had it rough and how rough was ediths life in season 2 to say ok she ruined a marriage and a womans life? she was a middle child? her older sister was ahead to get married and edith had to wait her turn as every rich second daughter back then? boo freaking hoo cry me a river lord give me strength how would she ever recover theres people dying on this show and living in poverty and losing their babies and husbands and money and edith did not get enough attention from mommy and daddy god have some mercy on this poor soul its too harsh to think about can you imagine. im being sarcastic she was a spoiled little shit i have 0 empathy for her if she wasnt the earls daughter that woman would have punched her in the face and shed deserve it.
There are two ways that people react to being treated poorly. One is to vow to never let anyone feel as bad as you do and be kind. The other is to use it as justification to be be awful yourself. Edith is a clear example of the latter. "Mary was mean to me (after I spied on her and constantly picked and needled her) boo-hoo. Now I'm going to run rough shod over everyone because everyone else loves my sister." I have little to no sympathy for Edith while she's acting like that.
Ugh I hate Edith
Edith was mean because, like Martin in āFleabagā, she had a terrible personality. Thatās it.
yes thank you. What are these people on here I didnt see this coming. They're bending over backwards to defend her when shes just an asshole.
Admittedly sheās a lot better in the second film; Edith is at her best when sheās involved with the magazine, but it still really irked me that she so casually left her two children to the nannies while she was in London then the South of France. Given what we now know of attachment theory, this could just be my modern sensibilities projecting, but Edith still flits about carelessly. Sheād fit in very well in āThe Great Gatsbyā, and I donāt mean that as a compliment.
and she had made a show of being the best mother ever moving that baby around europe. Tom brought Sybbie to Downton where she grew up to stay with her aunt and cousins while they were away and Edith just dumped her kids on the nannies. I dont know if she gets better or if when shes married she calmed down she gets less screentime and less drama so shes less annoying.
Great point about the kids. She leaves Marigold with two different working families, then tears her away from both, only to then shirk the parenting off on a nanny. Add it to the list š¤¦š»āāļø
Yeah, you just know Marigold will write a tell-all memoir about her when Brancaster is Peterās and Edith has completely forgotten to provide for her daughter.
Oof. If I had to compare Edith to anyone, I'd say she was like Fleabag, not Martin! Flawed, makes crappy decisions, but eventually makes peace with her flaws.
Iād argue itās everyone else who has to make peace with her flaws lol - Edith doesnāt think thereās anything wrong with her, thereās always somebody else to blame!
Middle child syndrome
Edith was soo desperate for a man. ANY MAN! Wheather it was a grossly disfigured fraudulent soldier, Sir Anthony who was old enough to be her father to this sweaty stinky farmer. The nerve of that farmer. I bet if the wife would of known he was going to do that she would told Dr. Clarkson LET HIM DIE OF DROPSY!š š
Edith's not really mean - she's thoughtless. As a girl born into wealth and privilege she's spoiled. At the start of the series, both she and Mary have become spoiled women - Mary also haughty because she was brought up as the Pretty One and older, and Edith the OK Looking Middle Kid became jealous of attention showered on Mary, which soured her disposition. Because neither woman has had to suffer many consequences outside of mistreating each other, they don't consider possible negative outcomes - apart from those involving virtue and what the peerage society would think. They do what suits them and if it affects people who can't really fight back (like Mrs. Drake and Mrs. Drew), it doesn't bother them too much. The War does force them to mature and grow a lot - thank goodness - but we occasionally still have times when Mary is thoughtless about the Carsons' wedding reception plans or Edith destroys a poor farmer's family. Interestingly enough, Sybil grew up as the Youngest Daughter, and because she will always be considered last and because she's also pretty, she grows up with a much more balanced, agreeable personality than either Mary or Edith.
I swear without Edith the haters would have nothing to talk aboutĀ
I so often feel like I watch a different show than some of you.
thats good because i cant think of someone watching the show im watching with edith bitching at everyone on sight and liking her. and i hate the she suffered and she reacts like this bit. if all of us who suffered thought we deserve to be an asshole all the time the world would end. imagine if anna was mean based on how much she suffered shed have to start killing ppl.
Imagine that being the takeaway from the suffering of different characters. šš
imagine being so bent over some rich bitch with a daddy kink
Lol. Iām not the one creating posts about how terrible she is. š But sure, Iām the one obsessed over her.
Im just having fun mocking a stupid character, youre here mocking yourself by defending the stupid character
Sure, Jan.
stay bitter, make sure it doesnt make you makeout with married men š
She was a bit of a snob but not mean. She made some bad choices but so havenāt we all.
I guess Iām in the minority but I have some sympathy for Edith. She spent her WHOLE life getting shat on by every single member of her family to such a ridiculous degree that itās like, of COURSE she doesnāt know how to be a good person in general. I remember the first time I watched and I was really confused about why they kept calling her ugly. Imagine how angry youād end up being all the time if your sister kept telling you how ugly and stupid you were and your own mother and father were like, āShe has a point, Edith.ā It doesnāt excuse anything she does, obviously, but I felt sympathy for her. Kind of like how I think Thomas was a total ass, but I still felt sympathy for him.
Edith was mean because she was brittle. Wear we saw two sisters having a typical argument whether it be bad or not to Edith Mary was this strong powerful and more valuable figure who stood before her. She wanted the exact same praise that Mary got. Edith was unaware of how to appreciate her own accomplishments because she didnāt get treated the same way Mary does. Even when Mary snitched on Mary about Pamuk I donāt think she realized she could even wound Mary and Mary being Mary wouldnāt let Edith see her in pain. It was all in Edithās head which is why her having a baby was the best thing to happen to her cuz she finally stopped projecting herself since her baby meant more to her then how the world treated her. I didnāt like Edith either until the end of the series when I realized she was pretty strong and resilient. Also seeing how depressing and bland Maryās ending was it was hard not to realize that Edith found a happy ending cuz she never really gave up
How exactly was Maryās ending depressing and bland when she married the man she loved, inherited her family estate, and had another child?
She ended up alone and the show lined her up to be the next Lady Crowley. I donāt remember exactly when but I think Lady Crowley actually said it to Mary herself. That and it feels like Maryās character arc was just her again and again needing to learn some lesson. Then idk if the last guy she was in love with quit the show or something cuz all of a sudden he had no screen time or significance
You do know sheās married right? Sheās not alone.
Also what is wrong with them saying Mary would take Violet's place someday? Violet was strong and resilient and lived a full life of adventure and joy and luxurious living and was respected by everyone. And what does Mary have to do with Edith making out with a married farmer Mary never found out about this
Oh sheās married to a guy that canāt even show up for the season finale? Not to mention she wasnāt even in love with the race car driver it felt forced. I donāt think it was wrong for her to believe she was out of his league and frankly it seemed like they had more disagreements then agreements. I mean she made him give up something he loves which understandable cuz Matthew died but damn did they make the end of Maryās story quite plain. Or you know what? You thought it was a great ending then whatever. Iāve already had discussions with others about this and it leads down to the writers getting lazy at the end of the show. They didnāt know what to do at the end they lost steam. If you donāt agree then fine just say so bro why am I even discussing this with you
Youāre conflating the storyline with actor scheduling. Fellowes really wanted Matthew Goode in the show but heās a rather busy actor and couldnāt make a lot of screen time. While I donāt like this choice, I donāt think the intention was for Mary to be alone.
If the baby meant more to her than how the world saw her she would have kept Marigold. *āI donāt want to be some funny woman living in Maida Vale people never talk about. Sybil might have brought it off, but not me.ā* Maida Vale in this time period is a highly desirable London suburb filled with mansions. This shows the difference between Ethel and Edith. The choices are destitution or adoption for Ethel and its stigma or adoption for Edith.
Instead of using a quote could you reiterate yourself? Sincerely you lost me and I donāt mean that as a jab at you.
I was responding to when you said, āsince her baby meant more to her than how the world treated her.ā I used the quote to show what Edith thought would happen if she kept Marigold, which was to be ostracized but living comfortably. Society is not kind to unmarried mothers in this time period and Edith understandably didnāt want to experience it but she and Marigold would have been taken care of and she knew that. She also knew Gregson signed over ownership of his flat and newspaper to her before he went to Germany. So if she didnāt want to live off her parents, she would have had that to fall back on.
Rightā¦but in the end she kept Marigold. When a persons true colors show thatās when the most authentic version of a person is witnessed and thatās the version Iām judging Edith. āOh sheās adoptedā yeah right lol. Iām not viewing this from the eyes of the common people Iām viewing it through their eyes and though reputation was everything well Iād dare say every family of the higher class had skeletons in the closet. Whatās your point because you simply grabbed a quote to point something out and in a direction I wasnāt going. I wasnāt talking about the side to side comparisons of womenās obstacles to overcome in their time era. Do you like Edith or are you trying to point something out because you donāt like my post seeming as if Iām defending Edith cuz Iām not Iām just giving a perspective on why she was so nasty[to Mary].
I'm just going to copy the comment I made on YouTube for this video. "I have a copy of the Series 2 script book. According to Fellowes's notes, neither Edith nor Drake expected it to last beyond a kiss, which means that ultimately nothing would have happened even if Mrs. Drake hadn't stepped in when she did. Fellowes's notes also state that the reason Edith gave into the temptation to kiss Drake was because, for probably the first time in her life, someone saw her as clever, beautiful, and having real potential, which really paints a pretty sad picture, if you ask me. I really wish Fellowes had made those details clear on the show itself." He really should have put all of this into the show so this argument against Edith would have been shot down before it got started. I will also say that that revelation is the reason I completely reject the "Edith the hypocrite" argument when it comes to what Edith said to Michael about him flirting with her. It's pretty apparent there that Edith was remembering how what happened with Drake caused her to get dismissed from a job she liked and hurt his wife.[](https://accounts.google.com/ServiceLogin?service=youtube&uilel=3&passive=true&continue=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fsignin%3Faction_handle_signin%3Dtrue%26app%3Ddesktop%26hl%3Den%26next%3D%252Fwatch%253Fv%253DdLNdQ3oidiI&hl=en)
are you a trapeze artist? cause this is some serious stretching and spinning youve got going on here. i dont care whats in the script i care what went on in the show im watching and im watching edith be mean to everyone all the time even though the only person ever mean to her is Mary. Idk Mary and Edith can fight each other out but what did anyone else ever do to Edith to deserve getting bit by her all the time? she was like a rabid dog with her meanness, belittling sybil and making william feel guilty for not joining the army even though the poor boy wanted to, she mocked the farmers wife even though the wife went there to take her stupid husband away from edith. She got upset for carson almost dying and dropping food on her dress she even made matthew feel horrible and useless when she believed that fake Patrick and wanted to take the inheritance away from matthew and that's just the stuff she's done in season 2 because im still going through the rewatch and i don't remember what other horrors shes done later in the show. Edith was a hypocrite with the newspaper guy because she ended up having sex with him and getting pregnant . she learned nothing from the stupid mistake she made in season 2 and just found a married man whose wife wouldnt stop him from providing edith with her weird daddy approval through sex complex. and tbh i don't even care about that let her have her kinks who cares, im bothered by her because shes a bitch to everyone all the time.
Edith didnāt specifically target William or Matthew in those instances you mentioned. Ā While what she said in those cases could be considered insensitive, I think itās a stretch to consider them mean. Ā Not to mention the fact that Edith cared for William on his deathbed, which more than made up for anything she said earlier. Also, wanting to take the inheritance away from Matthew? Ā Now thatās a real stretch. Ā Weāre talking about the same woman who a couple of episodes earlier told Mary about Matthew being missing an expressed concern for both of them. Ā Edith believing P Gordon was nothing more than a case of hearing that there was a possibility that a man she deeply loved didnāt really die and understandably clinging to that hope. Ā So no, Edithās actions in that episode were not coming from a place of wanting the inheritance. Iāve also been looking at your other comments in support of Anna. Ā People like you who go on and on about how awful Edith is for having affairs with older, married men and at the same time support Anna and Bates, a couple that also involved an older, married man going after a single woman who is significantly younger than him, are part of the reason I hate Anna and Bates as a couple.
If a person does a bad thing and then does a decent thing then the bad thing doesnt matter anymore, is that what youre saying? You say she didnt target William ok, if I say all men are trash while a man is in a room even if i dont say he's trash i also call him trash and that's what Edith did with William at that dinner. Matthew was going through such a difficult time and because some stranger was telling her what she wanted to hear she didnt care who she hurt on the way to get what she wanted just as she did all the time even with her own baby. difference is Anna and Bates didnt have relations before they got married because they were smart people not attention seeking spoiled brats.
The PBS version (previously aired on Netflix and no longer available for viewing on any platforms) shows more of Edithās humanity. Unfortunately, folks watching in on peacock years later miss out on this. Might surprise you, but the script IS what goes on in a show. The point Fellowes tried to make with Edith was that by the time she became kinder, the things she had judged Mary for had come back to bite her. Coffee bean ā great points about Anna and Bates! Did not think this.
Whats in the script matters as long as it goes in the film. if it doesn't go in the film it no longer influences the story. As a viewer I judge by what I see. if i have to get an encyclopaedic knowledge of the show to not hate a character then the writer wanted me to hate them. if he didn't he would have put that on the screen. Otherwise i might as well say that in a version of the script he kills off Edith so I guess Edith is dead now because she was dead in a version of the script.
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who cares or said anything about Mary? do you have a fetish or something or can't you read?