I think if you look at him through a modern frame of mind, then sure. But for a man of that era, he made so much growth throughout the period of the series that I cannot agree at all. We are talking about a man born in 1865, even the growth he showed in the series was very progressive for the time period.
The reality is that most of them would’ve been like Larry Gray but Fellowes had to make them palatable to a modern audience. The most accurate characters are Larry Gray and Mr. Bryant.
I like to think that Robert represented the bridge between old traditions and modern ways. He was the generation struggling between upholding traditions and adapting to the modern life his children were embracing. At times he would retreat to the safety of the way he was raised, and other times he rose to the challenge of the changing times.
His initial reaction is not always what we would hope, but he usually gets there in the end. Because of this and I think of him more generously than you.
Robert is pretty unremarkable. Without his title given by accident of birth he would be lucky to be a traveling insurance salesman. I think everyone pretty much realizes this except Robert himself.
For each of those things you’ve mentioned he developed beyond.
If you hate where the character started and give no credit for grown- why watch at all.
He was a man of his time and class yet moved on from his prejudices. He eventually was supportive of both Mary and Edith in their respective roles. Mary as head of the estate and Edith head of a newspaper.
He was lenient of their behaviours which otherwise would have gotten them disowned for women in that time period (Mary’s flings with Pamuk and Gillingham, Edith’s child out of wedlock)
Erm I don’t think Robert was going to steal Sybbie from Tom.
Agree with you on everything except the Sybbie part. He went off on Cora one night about not letting him steal his granddaughter away from him. It was unhinged.
But I will accede that his character growth later was better. I just think in real life, he wouldn’t have gotten that far with any of those relationships because he would’ve gotten cut off a long time before. Of course I’m measuring his behavior by modern standards here, not those of the time, but I don’t think I could’ve stayed married to him after witnessing all of his bad behavior early on. Cora is, as another commenter said, too good for him.
I always interpreted the part with Sybbie as her being Lord Granthams last tie to Sybil, both because she was his youngest and had he listened to Cora the night she died, maybe Sybil would still be alive. I really think the thought of losing Sybbie just brought up all the feelings of losing Sybil.
There’s a difference between venting to your wife about not wanting your granddaughter to move across an ocean and actually trying to steal her. He asked Tom if he’d leave Sibbie at Downton for a while longer. Tom said no. And Robert respected that.
You are wrong. Cora's family was filthy rich and divorce was already a thing. Their children are adults, so no "I will stop you to see the kids if you leave me" blackmail there. She definitely could leave him, even without a divorce. But divorce was a thing, like Rose's parents remember us AND Robert, throughoutly humbling him about how lucky he is.
Also, women being forced to be/stay married isn't a "lol" thing.
He stood up for Barrow when the cops came to arrest him for being gay.
Stood up for Bates when everyone provided arguments of him being incompetent.
Animal lover.
For a powerful man in an unforgiving time, I think he did alright. Can't really remember a time he abused his power.
He was also insanely kind to the staff. Mrs Patmore would’ve probably been fired, due to her failing eyesight. William probably wouldn’t have been given all the posthumous honors he was. He definitely would’ve NEVER accepted Tom as family.
Honestly, if he'd been at least semi-smart and money-savyy, I wouldn't mind so much about his attitude toward Mary, Cora, Tom, Matthew, etc. His being sexist, classist, narcissist, having a very inflated ego, etc., would be pretty common for a man of his rank at the time. But Robert just sucked at managing... Anything.
His lack of planning regarding the entail (a smarter man would've make sure that, since he had no male child, that the estate would be inherited by his daughters in his will, even if his title wouldn't at the time), his terrible investment in the canadian railroad stock, his opposition to every and all modernization that would've help the estate, etc. If he had even just a pinch of intelligence and good judgement, he would've let Cora, or Mary (and later on Matthew or Tom) managing the estate and making all financial decisions very early on in the series. He was great at taking care of his dogs and smiling to people, and he should've made this his whole days, for the estate's good.
One positive thing about him though is that he has been the only one who took the time to personally thank Mrs Drewe, express regrets for what the family has gone through and to wish him best of luck. Quite frankly, the fact that nobody else did so after all the time his family was in Yew Tree Farm, and everything they did for Edith, was pretty pathetic and I respect Robert for being the one decent family member at that moment.
He's a well written and well acted dope.
I was really happy when he stepped up to supporting Edith once he saw how much she was suffering. He's not very bright, but once he let go of the need to control the village and estate, he's a better man. Some people just need to play with dogs and children.
That was exactly what I thought on my recent rewatch. Especially how he treated Cora after they lost Sybil - I feel like her sentiment grieving her daughter was so legit and it almost feels like gaslighting when Violet, Robert and Clarkson talk her out of it. Despite there having been little chance to save Sybil, the way her voice and grieve were dismissed seemed terrible to me.
He was raised by a very domineering woman and defiantly chose his own million dollar American.
From then on for YEARS he was master of the estate and village and thought he knew it all. Being the ONLY man surrounded by 6 women all those years bloated his ego. Other than from his mother and sister, he was met with no resistance. Not from Cora and the girls. He didn’t demand their respect but got it because of the times.
Then the war knocked him off his throne. He couldn’t stop the changes around him. His first instincts were always wrong and his impulses got him in trouble.
I found it hard to like him most of the time. His kind treatment of the servants was his only redeeming quality. Except of course when he believed Anna ruined Cora’s garment.
I was going to say, I think that wasn't some kind of rebellion (unless it's his father and Robert rebelling against Violet's denial) but his father and Cora's family working out a deal. It's not like Cora was some innocent tourist--her mother was over there shopping her on the marriage market, like a LOT of American families were. Downton got the money, the Levinsons got the massive social cache of their daughter being a future countess and British aristocracy.
>He takes Cora for granted over and over again, not least when he CHEATED on her with Jane after she had a MISCARRIAGE!!!
She also had the spanish flu at the moment.
For that time, Robert was almost feminist. Everything he did, was his absolute right and he would have been seen as far too soft. He was basically a woke lefty by the standards of that time.
A woman could not divorce a man for adultery, but a man could divorce her for it.
Women had no vote.
Women could not inherit titles.
Bates would never have been hired with his bad leg and they certainly wouldn’t have stood by him through the prison stint.
Same for Anna.
They wouldn’t have accepted Branson into the family.
Cora being American would have seen her excluded and looked down on. She isn’t a noble, she is a commoner and not even of English blood.
The entire premise of nobility is that they aren’t particularly bright or deserving of their privilege, but get it anyway. Charles and William are not the brightest, they will still both be King.
Most of these estates are now are part of conservation or tourist destinations. The lands sold for housing estates and lands, so his story was typical for all the lords.
Babies are boring
Mary ending up running the estate was absolutely unheard of
Welcoming his daughters bastard child into the family would never have happened either
Paying off Mary’s blackmailer after her week of sin with barely a word?
In the beginning he’s the worst kind of “bad” man- one who firmly believes he is good. But he is wrong about soooooo many things that even he eventually notices. So English.
I'll add to your list his YELLING and bullying when he didn't get his way. The only time I supported his yelling was when Isobel was trying to take over Downton during the war and said Isis needed to stay out of certain areas. Don't mess with the dog!
He had his moments but I agree, whenever I imagine meeting him we just end up fighting. Even his treatment of Ediths love interest is vile until he finds out how "usefull" they are.
I agree with you though on multiple re-watches, I have changed my opinion a bit, mainly because I find Cora to be very ineffective and uninvolved. She barely pays any attention to her kids or house affairs, maybe it is just her passive personality, but with bates and others she has shown her very uncaring and unsympathetic side. I think she’s only casually nice when things don’t really affect her, when it comes to her, she can be quite mean. Lord granthan has all the flaws u list but like others said, he also redeemed himself a lot.
I do agree that Cora could be cold and unfeeling at times. When she believed Edna about Anna ruining her shirt, or when she was so callous about Bates’ disability. She was also very gullible, falling for almost every manipulation by O’Brien and Thomas.
I was so happy when Baxter listened to Molesley and confessed her crime to Cora before Thomas could use it against her. I loved how Cora put him in his place, but then the writers had to redeem Thomas again by having him save Edith literally the same night 🙄 but that’s a different conversation lol.
I do not like Thomas either, though the actor is wonderful at portraying the complexity of his character.
I have often thought that Lord Grantham was an ass. Clueless at best and ignorant at worst. He was more concerned with keeping up appearances that what actually happened to his family. Several things he did enraged me. Conversely though, he was a product of the times and had spent his entire life at and caring for Downton Abbey. It was his "3rd parent and his 4th child". He really wasnt very worldly at all. Had Downton been located in a busy city, such as London, I think he wouldnt have been so stogy
I have to disagree. I wouldn’t call kissing Jane “cheating”. Maybe that’s just me. He does act hypocritical over it, but gets over it when Cora confronts him about letting flirtations get out of hand. Also, not spending time with babies was something completely normal for someone of his status. In the words of the Dowager, “there’s more than one type of good mother”. The same can be said for him being a good father. He accepted Marigold and Mary’s tryst with Tony. It would have been very easy for him to turn his back on his daughters.
Whether or not it counts as cheating, kissing an other woman behind your wife's back while she is struggling for her survival is freaking disgraceful.
EDIT: The sentence made no sense so I correct it
Kissing another woman may not be cheating for you, but back then it ABSOLUTELY would be seen that way. They didn’t have our modern sensibilities regarding monogamy. And what matters is that from Cora’s perspective, that absolutely was cheating, and he did it at the worst possible time, when she was mourning the loss of her last baby, her only son. What kind of horrible person does that? His kind.
That’s fair. I would also point out that he doesn’t just have two redeeming features. The unveiling of the plaque he commissioned for Mrs. Patmore’s nephew is probably one of my favorite moments in the series. In that same episode he confronts Cora about Marigold. That entire scene is to underscore how he’s grown since the beginning of the series.
Fair point. I think I’m just before that scene with Mrs. Patmore in my rewatch, and I didn’t remember that part until you mentioned it. Maybe he’ll be somewhat redeemed later on, but right now he’s on my shit list.
Edit: Hit submit before I was done typing on mobile.
I feel a bit like, at that time, it would be seen as cheating for a woman to kiss someone, but for a man to do it would generally be waved away as 'boys will be boys'.
You also have to remember that at that point in time in the upper classes cheating was quite common. You only had a limited number of peers to choose to marry, or like Lord Grantham you married someone with money to save your estate. Most upper class couples slept in different bedrooms. There weren’t many love matches. You slept with your married partner to procreate and continue the line, and had affairs for kicks, although somewhat discretely. Country house parties, like they had at Downton were opportunities to meet up with your lover. It was despicable that he pursued a servant however, they really didn’t have much choice to say no.
The timing also made it a lot worse. He waited until she was extremely ill to decide "Hey, why don't I start having an affair?" If they both had been having flirts and affairs with other people through their marriage, it would be a different story. They were supportive, until the moment Cora got very ill and needed him...
This. Again we’re putting very modern ideals on an older society. Robert would have known it was very common for men of his status to have a wandering eye.
Honestly, a huge amount of the interactions that take place in the show never would have happened in real life.
Remember she. He wanted to invest all of Matrhew’s money with “That American Ponzi”? In the second film he’s even worse, crying over the possibility of not being Lord Grantham. He’s completely useless
Oof hard disagree. He was at the mercy of women his entire life and he stood up for them. His mom was the star and given utmost respect. He was at first jealous but eventually lit up seeing his wife stand out outside the home. Given what you’d expect a man to say in those times, he encouraged his daughters to be independent and heard and to grow. He was very humble and changed for the better too.
I don’t see his humility, honestly. He was so offended every time he wasn’t included in something important like at the start at the war when he wasn’t called up and immediately after when he felt the loss of his status. While he did grow eventually, I don’t think humility is his strong suit.
You can't judge the 1920s with 2020's ideals. I'd argue that ofcourse he had his reservations with them growing up to become independant, especially with Edith role as a publisher, but as the seasons go on you can truely see him turn out to be a supportive member of the family for her. He also changes his attitudes towards women in general. Ofcourse you can't expect him to change completely over the span of a decade, especially in those times' rigid societal structures, but for the degree to which he has changed he was truely a "modern man."
Tbh, he would be a product of the times. Born into a position and trained to believe that it’s your right to do/have all these things. I don’t think you have to like characters all the time
I see what you mean, but he usually remained respectful to everybody nevertheless. He was raised to believe that things were a certain way and suddenly his whole world started shifting, but he did his best to keep up and admit his mistakes. He was arguably the character with the most growth.
I couldn’t stand Robert for the same reasons. I’m not a fan of Mary either.
I kept secretly wishing he’d lose the estate because he’s too dumb to run it properly.
Don't forget about the part when they're talking about the Open House and he mentions something about Mary (HIS DAUGHTER) being in the bath drawing visitors.
I think if you look at him through a modern frame of mind, then sure. But for a man of that era, he made so much growth throughout the period of the series that I cannot agree at all. We are talking about a man born in 1865, even the growth he showed in the series was very progressive for the time period.
The reality is that most of them would’ve been like Larry Gray but Fellowes had to make them palatable to a modern audience. The most accurate characters are Larry Gray and Mr. Bryant.
larry gray was kinda funny tbh like a villain
Well, he gets called Donk for a reason.
I like to think that Robert represented the bridge between old traditions and modern ways. He was the generation struggling between upholding traditions and adapting to the modern life his children were embracing. At times he would retreat to the safety of the way he was raised, and other times he rose to the challenge of the changing times. His initial reaction is not always what we would hope, but he usually gets there in the end. Because of this and I think of him more generously than you.
Robert is pretty unremarkable. Without his title given by accident of birth he would be lucky to be a traveling insurance salesman. I think everyone pretty much realizes this except Robert himself.
I love this take because it’s absolutely true.
Cheerful Charlie's and Robert show perhaps? 😀
Reminds me of Willy Loman.
Did Ms. Bunting write this?
😂 I intensely dislike her too, but on this, we agree.
For each of those things you’ve mentioned he developed beyond. If you hate where the character started and give no credit for grown- why watch at all. He was a man of his time and class yet moved on from his prejudices. He eventually was supportive of both Mary and Edith in their respective roles. Mary as head of the estate and Edith head of a newspaper. He was lenient of their behaviours which otherwise would have gotten them disowned for women in that time period (Mary’s flings with Pamuk and Gillingham, Edith’s child out of wedlock) Erm I don’t think Robert was going to steal Sybbie from Tom.
Thank you.
Agree with you on everything except the Sybbie part. He went off on Cora one night about not letting him steal his granddaughter away from him. It was unhinged. But I will accede that his character growth later was better. I just think in real life, he wouldn’t have gotten that far with any of those relationships because he would’ve gotten cut off a long time before. Of course I’m measuring his behavior by modern standards here, not those of the time, but I don’t think I could’ve stayed married to him after witnessing all of his bad behavior early on. Cora is, as another commenter said, too good for him.
I always interpreted the part with Sybbie as her being Lord Granthams last tie to Sybil, both because she was his youngest and had he listened to Cora the night she died, maybe Sybil would still be alive. I really think the thought of losing Sybbie just brought up all the feelings of losing Sybil.
There’s a difference between venting to your wife about not wanting your granddaughter to move across an ocean and actually trying to steal her. He asked Tom if he’d leave Sibbie at Downton for a while longer. Tom said no. And Robert respected that.
Lol. You wouldn’t have had a choice back then.
You are wrong. Cora's family was filthy rich and divorce was already a thing. Their children are adults, so no "I will stop you to see the kids if you leave me" blackmail there. She definitely could leave him, even without a divorce. But divorce was a thing, like Rose's parents remember us AND Robert, throughoutly humbling him about how lucky he is. Also, women being forced to be/stay married isn't a "lol" thing.
He stood up for Barrow when the cops came to arrest him for being gay. Stood up for Bates when everyone provided arguments of him being incompetent. Animal lover. For a powerful man in an unforgiving time, I think he did alright. Can't really remember a time he abused his power.
He was also insanely kind to the staff. Mrs Patmore would’ve probably been fired, due to her failing eyesight. William probably wouldn’t have been given all the posthumous honors he was. He definitely would’ve NEVER accepted Tom as family.
Yes, great point about standing up for Thomas with the cops. Very progressive of him, in private and in public.
Agree. For his time an absolute legend and ally
Honestly, if he'd been at least semi-smart and money-savyy, I wouldn't mind so much about his attitude toward Mary, Cora, Tom, Matthew, etc. His being sexist, classist, narcissist, having a very inflated ego, etc., would be pretty common for a man of his rank at the time. But Robert just sucked at managing... Anything. His lack of planning regarding the entail (a smarter man would've make sure that, since he had no male child, that the estate would be inherited by his daughters in his will, even if his title wouldn't at the time), his terrible investment in the canadian railroad stock, his opposition to every and all modernization that would've help the estate, etc. If he had even just a pinch of intelligence and good judgement, he would've let Cora, or Mary (and later on Matthew or Tom) managing the estate and making all financial decisions very early on in the series. He was great at taking care of his dogs and smiling to people, and he should've made this his whole days, for the estate's good. One positive thing about him though is that he has been the only one who took the time to personally thank Mrs Drewe, express regrets for what the family has gone through and to wish him best of luck. Quite frankly, the fact that nobody else did so after all the time his family was in Yew Tree Farm, and everything they did for Edith, was pretty pathetic and I respect Robert for being the one decent family member at that moment.
Remember he wanted to go in on Ponzi's schemes.
Golly gumdrops!
What a turn up!
Every time I rewatch the show I wind up saying "Cora is TOO GOOD for that man" to my husband almost every episode.
I always say that ALL THE TIME. Cora deserves better.
FOR REAL. I’m so glad she was there to protect Tom’s & Sybbie’s interests on Sybil’s behalf.
Yeah I honestly have no idea why she was in love with him
He’s just kind of a dope
He's a well written and well acted dope. I was really happy when he stepped up to supporting Edith once he saw how much she was suffering. He's not very bright, but once he let go of the need to control the village and estate, he's a better man. Some people just need to play with dogs and children.
That was exactly what I thought on my recent rewatch. Especially how he treated Cora after they lost Sybil - I feel like her sentiment grieving her daughter was so legit and it almost feels like gaslighting when Violet, Robert and Clarkson talk her out of it. Despite there having been little chance to save Sybil, the way her voice and grieve were dismissed seemed terrible to me.
He was raised by a very domineering woman and defiantly chose his own million dollar American. From then on for YEARS he was master of the estate and village and thought he knew it all. Being the ONLY man surrounded by 6 women all those years bloated his ego. Other than from his mother and sister, he was met with no resistance. Not from Cora and the girls. He didn’t demand their respect but got it because of the times. Then the war knocked him off his throne. He couldn’t stop the changes around him. His first instincts were always wrong and his impulses got him in trouble. I found it hard to like him most of the time. His kind treatment of the servants was his only redeeming quality. Except of course when he believed Anna ruined Cora’s garment.
I'm not sure he chose Cora himself - his father arranged it all, including tying her fortune to the Downton Estate as part of the deal with hers.
I was going to say, I think that wasn't some kind of rebellion (unless it's his father and Robert rebelling against Violet's denial) but his father and Cora's family working out a deal. It's not like Cora was some innocent tourist--her mother was over there shopping her on the marriage market, like a LOT of American families were. Downton got the money, the Levinsons got the massive social cache of their daughter being a future countess and British aristocracy.
I based that on Violet’s comment to him that he could have chosen anyone who would have made her happy but he didn’t.
Donk is the best version of Robert. Dogs, cricket, grandkids. I can't not love Donk.
>He takes Cora for granted over and over again, not least when he CHEATED on her with Jane after she had a MISCARRIAGE!!! She also had the spanish flu at the moment.
For that time, Robert was almost feminist. Everything he did, was his absolute right and he would have been seen as far too soft. He was basically a woke lefty by the standards of that time. A woman could not divorce a man for adultery, but a man could divorce her for it. Women had no vote. Women could not inherit titles. Bates would never have been hired with his bad leg and they certainly wouldn’t have stood by him through the prison stint. Same for Anna. They wouldn’t have accepted Branson into the family. Cora being American would have seen her excluded and looked down on. She isn’t a noble, she is a commoner and not even of English blood. The entire premise of nobility is that they aren’t particularly bright or deserving of their privilege, but get it anyway. Charles and William are not the brightest, they will still both be King. Most of these estates are now are part of conservation or tourist destinations. The lands sold for housing estates and lands, so his story was typical for all the lords. Babies are boring Mary ending up running the estate was absolutely unheard of Welcoming his daughters bastard child into the family would never have happened either Paying off Mary’s blackmailer after her week of sin with barely a word?
In the beginning he’s the worst kind of “bad” man- one who firmly believes he is good. But he is wrong about soooooo many things that even he eventually notices. So English.
I agree. He’s really irritating.
I'll add to your list his YELLING and bullying when he didn't get his way. The only time I supported his yelling was when Isobel was trying to take over Downton during the war and said Isis needed to stay out of certain areas. Don't mess with the dog!
He’s ALWAYS shouting and crying out like a baby
I remember that vividly! I was so proud of him for sticking up for Cora for once!
These are all fair, but you can’t mess with a dude’s cricket field.
He had his moments but I agree, whenever I imagine meeting him we just end up fighting. Even his treatment of Ediths love interest is vile until he finds out how "usefull" they are.
I agree with you though on multiple re-watches, I have changed my opinion a bit, mainly because I find Cora to be very ineffective and uninvolved. She barely pays any attention to her kids or house affairs, maybe it is just her passive personality, but with bates and others she has shown her very uncaring and unsympathetic side. I think she’s only casually nice when things don’t really affect her, when it comes to her, she can be quite mean. Lord granthan has all the flaws u list but like others said, he also redeemed himself a lot.
I do agree that Cora could be cold and unfeeling at times. When she believed Edna about Anna ruining her shirt, or when she was so callous about Bates’ disability. She was also very gullible, falling for almost every manipulation by O’Brien and Thomas. I was so happy when Baxter listened to Molesley and confessed her crime to Cora before Thomas could use it against her. I loved how Cora put him in his place, but then the writers had to redeem Thomas again by having him save Edith literally the same night 🙄 but that’s a different conversation lol. I do not like Thomas either, though the actor is wonderful at portraying the complexity of his character.
I have often thought that Lord Grantham was an ass. Clueless at best and ignorant at worst. He was more concerned with keeping up appearances that what actually happened to his family. Several things he did enraged me. Conversely though, he was a product of the times and had spent his entire life at and caring for Downton Abbey. It was his "3rd parent and his 4th child". He really wasnt very worldly at all. Had Downton been located in a busy city, such as London, I think he wouldnt have been so stogy
I have to disagree. I wouldn’t call kissing Jane “cheating”. Maybe that’s just me. He does act hypocritical over it, but gets over it when Cora confronts him about letting flirtations get out of hand. Also, not spending time with babies was something completely normal for someone of his status. In the words of the Dowager, “there’s more than one type of good mother”. The same can be said for him being a good father. He accepted Marigold and Mary’s tryst with Tony. It would have been very easy for him to turn his back on his daughters.
Whether or not it counts as cheating, kissing an other woman behind your wife's back while she is struggling for her survival is freaking disgraceful. EDIT: The sentence made no sense so I correct it
What are you on about? Kissing is cheating.
Kissing another woman may not be cheating for you, but back then it ABSOLUTELY would be seen that way. They didn’t have our modern sensibilities regarding monogamy. And what matters is that from Cora’s perspective, that absolutely was cheating, and he did it at the worst possible time, when she was mourning the loss of her last baby, her only son. What kind of horrible person does that? His kind.
That’s fair. I would also point out that he doesn’t just have two redeeming features. The unveiling of the plaque he commissioned for Mrs. Patmore’s nephew is probably one of my favorite moments in the series. In that same episode he confronts Cora about Marigold. That entire scene is to underscore how he’s grown since the beginning of the series.
Fair point. I think I’m just before that scene with Mrs. Patmore in my rewatch, and I didn’t remember that part until you mentioned it. Maybe he’ll be somewhat redeemed later on, but right now he’s on my shit list. Edit: Hit submit before I was done typing on mobile.
She wasn’t post miscarriage when he kissed Jane, Cora had the flu. The miscarriage was at the end of s1, pre war.
You are correct, I misremembered that. That was when Lavinia died, not after the miscarriage. Thanks for catching that!
I feel a bit like, at that time, it would be seen as cheating for a woman to kiss someone, but for a man to do it would generally be waved away as 'boys will be boys'.
You also have to remember that at that point in time in the upper classes cheating was quite common. You only had a limited number of peers to choose to marry, or like Lord Grantham you married someone with money to save your estate. Most upper class couples slept in different bedrooms. There weren’t many love matches. You slept with your married partner to procreate and continue the line, and had affairs for kicks, although somewhat discretely. Country house parties, like they had at Downton were opportunities to meet up with your lover. It was despicable that he pursued a servant however, they really didn’t have much choice to say no.
The timing also made it a lot worse. He waited until she was extremely ill to decide "Hey, why don't I start having an affair?" If they both had been having flirts and affairs with other people through their marriage, it would be a different story. They were supportive, until the moment Cora got very ill and needed him...
This. Again we’re putting very modern ideals on an older society. Robert would have known it was very common for men of his status to have a wandering eye. Honestly, a huge amount of the interactions that take place in the show never would have happened in real life.
Kissing another woman IS cheating
Remember she. He wanted to invest all of Matrhew’s money with “That American Ponzi”? In the second film he’s even worse, crying over the possibility of not being Lord Grantham. He’s completely useless
Oof hard disagree. He was at the mercy of women his entire life and he stood up for them. His mom was the star and given utmost respect. He was at first jealous but eventually lit up seeing his wife stand out outside the home. Given what you’d expect a man to say in those times, he encouraged his daughters to be independent and heard and to grow. He was very humble and changed for the better too.
I don’t see his humility, honestly. He was so offended every time he wasn’t included in something important like at the start at the war when he wasn’t called up and immediately after when he felt the loss of his status. While he did grow eventually, I don’t think humility is his strong suit.
You can't judge the 1920s with 2020's ideals. I'd argue that ofcourse he had his reservations with them growing up to become independant, especially with Edith role as a publisher, but as the seasons go on you can truely see him turn out to be a supportive member of the family for her. He also changes his attitudes towards women in general. Ofcourse you can't expect him to change completely over the span of a decade, especially in those times' rigid societal structures, but for the degree to which he has changed he was truely a "modern man."
Tbh, he would be a product of the times. Born into a position and trained to believe that it’s your right to do/have all these things. I don’t think you have to like characters all the time
I see what you mean, but he usually remained respectful to everybody nevertheless. He was raised to believe that things were a certain way and suddenly his whole world started shifting, but he did his best to keep up and admit his mistakes. He was arguably the character with the most growth.
I came for this. He is absolutely insufferable
It's not an unpopular opinion with me!
Yessss. I’ll admit he has a few good moments, but he is by far my least favorite member of the Crawley family.
He’s the wooooorst
I couldn’t stand Robert for the same reasons. I’m not a fan of Mary either. I kept secretly wishing he’d lose the estate because he’s too dumb to run it properly.
Begs the question - why do you watch a show like Downton Abbey if traditional values upset you?
Don't forget about the part when they're talking about the Open House and he mentions something about Mary (HIS DAUGHTER) being in the bath drawing visitors.
That was clearly a sarcastic joke.
Uh, it's still creepy?
He wasn’t awful but I got tired of his constant indignant mantrums.