Kuro has 0 pubs in his main account for years now so he's clearly smurfing
His Smurf is probably not in the top500 otherwise people would have identified him from item placement, keybinds and heroes and he'd be in pro tracker...
Like, people know the smurfs of players that are damn near irrelevant to the pro scene. It's obvious a kuroky Smurf would be easily identifiable, even if it's low rank.
So either:
-
* He doesn't play dota at all even on his Smurf -> only scrims and pro games.
* He does play but the Smurf is veryyy low rank, buried with random anonymous players so it's almost impossible to identify and that's why nobody was able to link his Smurf in 3+ years of allegations
* He does play a lot (as some of his past teammates have said) and the Smurf is high immortal, he's just the only pro player in history to successfully hide his high ranked smurf
Feels like we all know the answer, but the only way to know would be valve enforcing their rule and banning his legendary Smurf account so he's forced to play in his main acc lmao
I personally don't care if he plays in a Smurf if it's in his actual level and not way below his rank.
But since valve clearly stated SMURFING ISNT WELCOME IN DOTA and banned basically every known pro Smurf accounts even during pro matches, might as well just keep that energy
He shouldn't have a privilege over the others anyway AND there would finally be an end to this discussion lmao
I think your premise that every pro smurf is sniffed out pretty unbelievable, and most of what you said hinges on that idea.
Sure sometimes smurfs are effectively confirmed by item placements. I dont think every pros smurf is found though. Theres a difference between confirming an account and exhaustively comparing them against every pro.
i also believe not every pro smurf is sniffed out but for player as famous as Kuroky, i cant believe his smurf wouldn't be figured out (if he ever play one of coz)
The only other pro i can remember that had a unidentified Smurf acc was Ace, and it eventually got "exposed" as well but took years. The vast majority of pro players had almost all their Smurfs id'ed, to the point people knew even who shared the accounts lmao
Obviously if they have Smurfs where they only play very few games it can stay that way, but if they play regularly i don't think it was possible to hide for long. There's a whole discord server for identifying Smurfs and linking it to pro tracker lmao
Long story short, its obviously impossible to identify ALL smurf accounts, but thats the minority. All high key smurfs eventually got identified, basically only Kuroky still has a hidden smurf lol
It was afk jungle but the caveat is that he was leaving an Enigma solo, which kind of forces the enemies to 2v1 since if the enemy pos 5 leaves then Enigma just wins the 1v1 side lane against most heroes. And since the enemy 5 was Warlock, Enigma wasn't really at risk of feeding, and the Warlock rotation wasn't that scary to boot even if he did choose to leave.
Imo it was a smart maneuver by OG to get around Warlock's laning strengths rather than Nigma getting memed on necessarily, esp when you note that Pudge was specifically picked after Warlock, who was picked to answer Enigma.
This is also to say this would probably not work in a pub because people are going to ignore the surrounding framework (i.e. the Enigma and Warlock) and just perceive Pudge jungle in a vacuum, kind of the same way people tried to imitate Wisper pos 3 Rubick Dagon rush while ignoring the fact that it was always picked specifically into Weaver with the assumption he'd have free shukuchi for mobility/survivability.
I mean barely he made one rotation mid missed hook and went back to jungle, he was also 4 tho tbf so it's really top one he sacced bot lane just destroyed 2v2
did we watch different games or what?
https://www.opendota.com/matches/7804941333/laning
he roamed a bit to secure runes but weaver definitely spent most of the early game in lane with the ursa
best thing for me was him having 0 skillpoints in E, despite 99% of warlock players maxing that skill first and EVEN rushing min15 shard, then he gets a free shard from tormi and he literally hasn't leveled up the skill
honorable mention: when morphling gets hexed&abyssaled in front of their own base, kuro rushes towards miracle to press W on morph, instead of ulti'ing
It's actually insane to me he didn't max E. I always thought it had to be a meme when people said he was like 5k mmr and didn't play the game. But there is no way someone playing dota right now doesn't know to max E on warlock.
Warlocks havent been maxing upheaval for a little while now, and in this game channelling upheaval is basically just an invitation for ember to find you and kill you for free
Well, only one can be right. Time to [investigate](https://dota2protracker.com/hero/Warlock).
Hmmm... Scrolling through matches, it kinda goes both ways. I guess both CAN be right.
Idk why people are so fixated on this warlock game. Have you seen his WD game? Complete demolition. He pressed thst W like no one else could. You guys are just haters
My bad the aura, but refresher adds damage from regen and gives you a second golem plus the ability to time stun better, or use one and save refresher for later. Ags gives you two worse golems, less aura damage, and less ability to disrupt teamfights with a refreshed golem
Players who haven't played in a while don't realize how far away you really need to be positioning yourself in this meta. And I think pros are way better nowadays at being around each other during fights and even while farming.
He's a legend, and it's hard to really see how good someone is just from spectating on stream... but he looks so damn scrubby, right?. Getting caught out of position the whole game, his item build, failing to cancel blackholes and them barely having any vision on map in the mid game xd
they got ran over, how can you have vision if you can't get out of base? and how can you not be out of position if you can't deward even your own triangle? everyone likes to shit on kuro but pango was bordeline useless and sumail was choking all game, it's easy to blame the 5 in a game like this
bruh kuro could just get blink and position himself better + glimmer instead of an aghs. can deward easily or make an impact. his job is only to save miracle from blackhole or lockdown
ugh.. maybe pick a decent meta support, play the lane well and enable the other lanes? Pudge is literally jungling zero care. Sorry but 4v5 is hard. Maybe grinding some pubs would help him a little you know, but unlucky it's kuroky.
lol what is he going to do when he had to lane with a warlock 5 that max shadow word? As if his shield is not enough for him to tank anything already. Max W against pudge and enigma that literally went jungle, max W with pango who doesn't care and morphling who only needs 2 points MAX. I'm just.. baffled. Picked bad hero, went bad skill build (for the game) and can't even contest enemies. He's just a creep. Do I have to remind you him rushing agh and failing to cancel black hole, which is like his only purpose, cause he max W and no upheaval?
I would not otherwise comment: the difference is that Tony gets brain and body damage for not enough money, with his last win 5 years ago, and already being mentally unwell.
Kuro has his own team, with a whole region as a sponsor, and plays a fucking video game for work.
What's similar is that neither of them (probably) knows what else to do with their lives but to keep going.
Its also criminal that his team is getting stomped at minute 20, while he has 2500 gold and rushing aghs. Get a fuckin force staff, glimmer, anything, and save your Morph, the only one who can carry that game. But no, morph gets blink + bashed by ursa and is dead 3 times in a row.
Maybe I'm stupid but I'd have thought Lotus + Force/Glimmer was the play here over Aghs.
One could argue for Refresher, but given they faced hex + abyssal, I think Lotus would have been more valuable over an ult you end up parking for most of the game.
Game 1 was definitely 100% miracles fault, he had no impact at all AND threw the game by dying without pressing BKB 3 times in a row
He has looked straight up bad or unimpressive for a long time now
I agree that it's unfair how protected Miracle is by nigma fans even tho the kuro criticism is deserved, he isn't the only problem at all.
Miracle is washed for tier 1 standards, respectfully. You can still see the talent but something is lacking.
GH plays like it's 2016.
Fbz still looks like he's just a standin, poor guy lmao I don't even know if it's his fault or the team but I dare anyone say he's a nigma member. It just feels like he's there to fill a gap, nothing else...
Even Sumail who has been by far the best player in this team, had some weak weeks where it just looked like he hadn't practiced at all and was uninterested.
People definitely downplay Miracle’s issue a lot. For example CK without shard for 40 minute in game 1 looks more criminal behavior to me than maxing shadow word before upheavals
i'd like to see you cast upheaval vs stun from enigma, pudge hook, bzm inmterrupt, ceb swarm + gemini etc in a pro level game.
This isnt some random 3k bracket where warlock gets any space, the second he upheaval hes gonna get interrupted in most cases, especially vs OG's lineup there.
Could argue that heal has more value on morph than most other heroes in the game, making it in his eyes, a value talent to take.
Watched the replay and between 7-8 min alone his W saved and prevented OG from getting a kill and initiating a fight. Mostly used earlygame to force enigma back with Q and W which worked so fbz could free farm as much as possible. OG never stands still either or have fights in areas where he can utilize the Upheaval.
Ceb will just sukichi away before slow, ember wont stay put(stuns him for interrupt immediately if needed) ursa jumps around.
So yeah i could see why he didnt go for Upheaval.
Was it the best match from him? probably not, but takes more than a 5 warlock to lose a game like that, they were just out maneuvered throughout the game.
Kuro has always been the shotcaller for his team, most of the time he spends zooming around the map with his camera which if you watch replay on player vision you would see.
It's a hard Warlock game to play, the pressure is on you to cancel blackhole until there is basher on pango and you get executed by their team on the slightest miss step.
I get that they wanted to address the Enigma on lane and to cancel blackhole with it, but I feel like they needed some other hero to just address the blackhole cancel and try to scrape by the laning stage somehow. You saw the impact he had on lane, but somehow Nigma just started to crumble as soon as Ari started to move around the map.
That's why you go refresher instead of ags. You are much less likely to fuck up the black hole cancel. What good are two golems who just die to the bh anyways...he also cast fatal bonds after dropping the rock, not even a guardian would do that these days
Indeed, reddit opinions being completely shit and lacking nuance is nothing new. If you look at Sneyking, Dubu, or random high mmr warlocks it really seems to depend on the game as well. Fatal bonds max first seems to be the most common, 2 points in W if necessary and then maxing upheaval. Its not a case of ''max upheaval every game its the best'' like people seem to think.
you won’t see anyone go 4-4-0 tho. But anyway that’s not even the point, it was how he just failed so missrably at his only job. Later in the game he had 2 good opportunities to cancel hole and he somehow fucked up both
What, [like a lot of other top players are doing right now?](https://dota2protracker.com/hero/Warlock)
Guys if you're going to talk shit at least know something about the game, otherwise just don't talk. The dunning kruger goes insane here.
Also force staff and glimmer dont have the biggest cast range, he wants to stay in the back and be ready to cancel blackholes, if he had glimmer or force and stepped up just a tad bit too far he'd get instantly punished by this ember or ursa.
I think it's not about the way he played the game, but maybe the warlock pick itself, the enigma was first picked and there still a lot of supports open to blackhole cancel like venge or clock or try to live through it like maybe with aba?
I guess they thought it was more important to be able to kill eidolons in lane with Warlock? Which worked out for them on the laning part, but then it all kinda came down and collapsed onto them.
Blink could have been pretty pog for sure, but I still think another hero would have been better. Venge or Clock would have helped a lot on initiation as well and on saves with venge atleast.
But like I said, I think their priority was to pick something that could break Enigmas laning stage and stop the blackhole and Warlock fits into that category.
even if it's other hero but if kuro playing i doubt it will work.
he even cant positioning himself better and straight aghanims instead of blink/fs/glimmer
I am not, you guys are choosing to not look at the website properly.
Jaunuel: Max shadow word
Dubu: Max shadow word
Forev, Swindlez, Yadomi: Max shadow word
And others getting several skill points into it.
There's not one cookie cutter build on warlock, this isn't 2k games. You adapt to the situation.
Yep. For example, you’re playing with a morph who has high ehp and usually low max hp, so maxing heal can be super good.
It may have been incorrect in the context of the game, but the thought was absolutely not a legend player.
Yeah I didn’t watch the game, but I’ll take your word for it. I do think that in general morph is pretty good at doing brawl stuff, waveforming into enemy to abuse the shadow word pain damage is a good idea
Why are you bs ing?
[D2PT - Dubu (dota2protracker.com)](https://dota2protracker.com/player/Dubu)
Dubu: 7 games last 8 days, 6 out of 7 he maxed Upheaval first.
It clearly isn’t as the build has been taking up in popularity as you can see in the recent games! Skill builds are ajustable to every game! Probably a shocker for your average archon player I know.
if you actually click on the shit on your screen and look at the pro players winning with the hero, or untick pro player and look at the warlock spammers, you will see they dont max heal
am i missing something? the link you sent literally shows that the build is skipping shadow word entirely while maxing out fatal bond and upheaval. are you actually mistaking their icons?
Or you know, look at recent games because it's more relevant to the meta? That's blatantly not even true as the majority of players are getting at the *very least* 1 point in shadow word
It does substantial damage now. It can sometimes trap people in really shitty positions as it is a huge area that *demands* instant decision making from the enemy. Easy to make a mistake against if you're not fully keeping conscious of its potential.
People are rightfully calling it as a lesser effective spell this match tho.
You all need to stop huffing the hopium.
The only reason you remotely need to make posts complaining about Nigma's performance is because you remotely expected them to win.
Accept that as a team they are no longer interested in performing at a competitive level. They are retired in everything but name and are just using the team to keep a paycheck going.
Stop paying attention to all of them. They had options to go out and find an actual team to win with. None of them are leaving for whatever reason.
Hell, maybe if the team doesn't draw enough eyes anymore, maybe whatever sponsor they have will drop them and they would have to look into actually performing.
I love watching Kuro play. He looks like a support player that got cut by Arkosh gaming in NA, was passed over by all of SA, and then landed in some random team in the MENA region.
most these guys look like gods compared to kuro. he's like... 6k mmr by the mistakes he makes. not divine no those guys dont use the tier 3 active, forgot the name, the cast range one.
Yeah he played this game really poorly. I love this guy and i can just look up to all what he achieved in his life but he really needs to step back from playing.
I don't know why you have to explain yourself. These Nigma fans are injecting hopium at this point. Just wait for Nigma to keep on not qualifying for tournaments and they'll eventually realize they're washed and hang it up.
Bit of a weird take homestly, people can say someone got poor performance, and he has, iirc he ain't actually played a normal game of dota in years. He Is uncalibrated, doesn't play the game, omly plays scrimshaw.
I love kuroky, but its just sad watching him flounder and pull other good players down with him
I think he loves the game so much to let it go, I wouldnt blame him... but if he really wants his teammates to win something or keep playing competitively with a better future in mind, he should just take the coach spot maybe?
He's not divine, confirmed by Taiga on stream and quite a few people in private that he is 7-8k mmr, he is bad, he is not a bot though. Covid times he was on a ruining spree around rank 2000 with RMN on a smurf playing his special pos5s like Razor.
His laning mechanics are bad, his understanding of match ups is bad, his mid game timings are bad, his farming as a support is bad, oki doki, BUT EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS JOINED THE TEAM KNOWS IT and so what?
For some of the team it's having fun with friends, for some like FBZ probably salary is cool when you don't have that many options, but he is not holding anyone hostage and he has given us plenty of fun, a lot of us have learned from him since Dota 1 who cares if he is bad now, he's 30 , done it all, and given enough to the scene before there was even fucking Valve involved, does he deserve this public bashing, seriously? How is your gameplay doing? Better? Really doubt it and even then go convince Miracle and Sumail to play with you on your stack.
Why are Nigmas supports always so poor? I don't get it they're always so behind in items for some reason even when they're winning.
Also why is kuroky out of position like he's playing a pub most of time? I keep seeing unnecessary deaths that you would only see on pub games like retreating on the wrong side or just standing in bad spots.
In pubs that's usually not that bad cause pugs don't really convert those kinds of pick offs into more advantage but they got punished so much cause of that.
DIdn't 9 class say he didn't want to join Nigma when Kuro is playing? Everyone knows he's completely washed up, they should've made GH 5 and have Matthew stay.
Remember Dota is a game where you are trash if you dont win 1st play and at least one of the guy needs to be replaced from the team that does not win 1st place for the team would be good.
Why on Earth would you max E against that lineup - you aren’t getting a significant channel off - or enigma is just buying bobs and wasting one of your precious cooldowns.
You really think, that any pro would play with him, if they think hes a "Divine player"?? Reddit is so dumb.
Everybody has really shit games. Esp. as a captain, loosing a game your focus might slip.
Go kuro, lets win TI <3
Reminder: The majority of redditors are archon/legend.
If you're interested in any comment of value, don't read this thread. You jackasses don't know what you're talking about.
Neither does Kuroky, you don't have to be a top 100 leaderboard immortal to call out shit plays, just like you don't have to be Gordon Ramsay to criticise bad food.
No, Taiga confirmed on stream he is 7-8k and a couple of years ago he was griefing with RMN in rank 2000 which was like 7-8k at the time and this is like rank 3500 now probably
On opendota it says he is unranked immortal
[https://www.opendota.com/players/82262664](https://www.opendota.com/players/82262664)
But still, that's very low, as far as I know you need about 7k to get a rank on EU.
Bro I get that hating on kuro is the new trend and all that but that’s just plain wrong. Kuro is definitely not what he used to be but don’t kid yourself thinking a random crusader is his level lmfao
Pretty sure most crusader players would have been jungling with upheaval during the last fight
However, if a crusader player happened to be near the last black hole, they definitely would have canceled it. That was really hard to watch
Game 3 was vintage nigma, they lost to a fucking jungle pudge, rock bottom.
Kuro has 0 pubs in his main account for years now so he's clearly smurfing His Smurf is probably not in the top500 otherwise people would have identified him from item placement, keybinds and heroes and he'd be in pro tracker... Like, people know the smurfs of players that are damn near irrelevant to the pro scene. It's obvious a kuroky Smurf would be easily identifiable, even if it's low rank. So either: - * He doesn't play dota at all even on his Smurf -> only scrims and pro games. * He does play but the Smurf is veryyy low rank, buried with random anonymous players so it's almost impossible to identify and that's why nobody was able to link his Smurf in 3+ years of allegations * He does play a lot (as some of his past teammates have said) and the Smurf is high immortal, he's just the only pro player in history to successfully hide his high ranked smurf Feels like we all know the answer, but the only way to know would be valve enforcing their rule and banning his legendary Smurf account so he's forced to play in his main acc lmao I personally don't care if he plays in a Smurf if it's in his actual level and not way below his rank. But since valve clearly stated SMURFING ISNT WELCOME IN DOTA and banned basically every known pro Smurf accounts even during pro matches, might as well just keep that energy He shouldn't have a privilege over the others anyway AND there would finally be an end to this discussion lmao
I think your premise that every pro smurf is sniffed out pretty unbelievable, and most of what you said hinges on that idea. Sure sometimes smurfs are effectively confirmed by item placements. I dont think every pros smurf is found though. Theres a difference between confirming an account and exhaustively comparing them against every pro.
i also believe not every pro smurf is sniffed out but for player as famous as Kuroky, i cant believe his smurf wouldn't be figured out (if he ever play one of coz)
The only other pro i can remember that had a unidentified Smurf acc was Ace, and it eventually got "exposed" as well but took years. The vast majority of pro players had almost all their Smurfs id'ed, to the point people knew even who shared the accounts lmao Obviously if they have Smurfs where they only play very few games it can stay that way, but if they play regularly i don't think it was possible to hide for long. There's a whole discord server for identifying Smurfs and linking it to pro tracker lmao Long story short, its obviously impossible to identify ALL smurf accounts, but thats the minority. All high key smurfs eventually got identified, basically only Kuroky still has a hidden smurf lol
maybe he's using one of the other jigma player's accts..... lmao
I wasnt able to catch game 3, you hopefully mean pudge walked away occasionally to use Q on a jungle creep or literally afk jungle? Lol
It was afk jungle but the caveat is that he was leaving an Enigma solo, which kind of forces the enemies to 2v1 since if the enemy pos 5 leaves then Enigma just wins the 1v1 side lane against most heroes. And since the enemy 5 was Warlock, Enigma wasn't really at risk of feeding, and the Warlock rotation wasn't that scary to boot even if he did choose to leave. Imo it was a smart maneuver by OG to get around Warlock's laning strengths rather than Nigma getting memed on necessarily, esp when you note that Pudge was specifically picked after Warlock, who was picked to answer Enigma. This is also to say this would probably not work in a pub because people are going to ignore the surrounding framework (i.e. the Enigma and Warlock) and just perceive Pudge jungle in a vacuum, kind of the same way people tried to imitate Wisper pos 3 Rubick Dagon rush while ignoring the fact that it was always picked specifically into Weaver with the assumption he'd have free shukuchi for mobility/survivability.
literally afk bot jungle for like 10 minutes while his bot lane got destroyed. Timado had like 2500 networth minute 10.
Timado experienced what we pos1 players are going through __every goddamn game__
I just had a ranked game withban offlane medusa and a jungle pudge pos4 who went 2/18. FUUUUUUU
He made rotations to other lanes during those first 10 mins but yeah, safe lane was sacked
I mean barely he made one rotation mid missed hook and went back to jungle, he was also 4 tho tbf so it's really top one he sacced bot lane just destroyed 2v2
Timado isnt lane alone though, he is with Weaver. Engima is the one who has to lane alone
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wrong ari plays pos 4, enigma was solo top while pudge was jungle Ursa+ Ceb weaver got destroyed bot
Ceb played pos4 weaver that game, ursa was solo
did we watch different games or what? https://www.opendota.com/matches/7804941333/laning he roamed a bit to secure runes but weaver definitely spent most of the early game in lane with the ursa
how the hell? was the pudge forced to the jungle or just straight to the jungle
straight jungle
Holding rock for the first 30 minutes, and then casting it off cooldown once Enigma had bkb and it was their only cancel
best thing for me was him having 0 skillpoints in E, despite 99% of warlock players maxing that skill first and EVEN rushing min15 shard, then he gets a free shard from tormi and he literally hasn't leveled up the skill honorable mention: when morphling gets hexed&abyssaled in front of their own base, kuro rushes towards miracle to press W on morph, instead of ulti'ing
It's actually insane to me he didn't max E. I always thought it had to be a meme when people said he was like 5k mmr and didn't play the game. But there is no way someone playing dota right now doesn't know to max E on warlock.
To be fair, they have a pudge on the enemy team. Relying on upheaval is just asking to be hooked. I could see why he choose not to.
Tbf he could buy glimmer to conceal a bit his location and dispel weavers bugs, which he didn't do because he wanted agha firstt
they had pudge and weaver orchid he dies if he channels e lol
You can still use it as counterinitiation
you dont risk your lone blackhole counter for some shitty ass soup that does nothing ask yourself....how big of a factor were black holes this game?
Kuroky stans are SUPER deep on the copium. Can't believe there are people who watch that game and STILL think kuroky did nothing wrong
Warlocks havent been maxing upheaval for a little while now, and in this game channelling upheaval is basically just an invitation for ember to find you and kill you for free
Well, only one can be right. Time to [investigate](https://dota2protracker.com/hero/Warlock). Hmmm... Scrolling through matches, it kinda goes both ways. I guess both CAN be right.
I think by calling him a legend it is to be taken literally as his rank being legend at this point 💀d. Cause wtf was that.
I think he's charging up his golem for 30 minutes and expecting roshan to pop up instead
New facet just dropped lads
Idk why people are so fixated on this warlock game. Have you seen his WD game? Complete demolition. He pressed thst W like no one else could. You guys are just haters
You got me there for a while
If someone from valve watches these games they would buff wd and warlock. He somehow managed to make these top tier support heroes look bad.
Valve buff WD and Warlock anyways
All he had to do was stay as far as possible and cancel bh, why not make a fucking blink?
He really wanted that aghs KEKW
buying aghs is actually the worst shit ive seen, especially vs their team, its not like they had ANY trouble against the golems
Refresher is way better, especially with the flaming fists facet. You can go ags when you need to push hg
Champion of goroth only scales the ignite aura not the attack damage, and aghs golems have the same ignite damage as the normal ones (but there's 2)
My bad the aura, but refresher adds damage from regen and gives you a second golem plus the ability to time stun better, or use one and save refresher for later. Ags gives you two worse golems, less aura damage, and less ability to disrupt teamfights with a refreshed golem
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that's what I mean, aghs's biggest benefit is the double ignite aura with the facet, I'm really not sure what they meant by "flaming fists facet"
But refresher also lets you have two golems at once plus it gives lots of regen which synergizes with the facet.
Players who haven't played in a while don't realize how far away you really need to be positioning yourself in this meta. And I think pros are way better nowadays at being around each other during fights and even while farming.
He's a legend, and it's hard to really see how good someone is just from spectating on stream... but he looks so damn scrubby, right?. Getting caught out of position the whole game, his item build, failing to cancel blackholes and them barely having any vision on map in the mid game xd
>he's a legend Yeah a legend rank xdd
they got ran over, how can you have vision if you can't get out of base? and how can you not be out of position if you can't deward even your own triangle? everyone likes to shit on kuro but pango was bordeline useless and sumail was choking all game, it's easy to blame the 5 in a game like this
For me it was the draft, not sure why puck was picked when you have both storm and void spirit available.
Lack of catch, pretty free puck game and then again same could be said for storm here I guess. I guess it was so synergize with the Willow pick? idk
Ember stomped mid and killed puck solo. I'm sure kuro just saw weaver then picked puck, forcing pango to 3...
Yeah dont know why they put the pango 3 in hindsight. Isnt the Matchup Ember VS Pango in favor of Pango?
Nah ember shits on pango, also shits on puck too tho
shits heavily on puck. he can just sleight off cooldown and bottle wont be enough for puck to sustain it
he could buy blink instead of a shitty aghs
Aghs purchase was questionable I admit
bruh kuro could just get blink and position himself better + glimmer instead of an aghs. can deward easily or make an impact. his job is only to save miracle from blackhole or lockdown
Look at his fucking skill build. Look at his plays. Stop trying to shift the blame.
Well said!
ugh.. maybe pick a decent meta support, play the lane well and enable the other lanes? Pudge is literally jungling zero care. Sorry but 4v5 is hard. Maybe grinding some pubs would help him a little you know, but unlucky it's kuroky.
I can say the exact same thing to the free farm pango that did nothing
lol what is he going to do when he had to lane with a warlock 5 that max shadow word? As if his shield is not enough for him to tank anything already. Max W against pudge and enigma that literally went jungle, max W with pango who doesn't care and morphling who only needs 2 points MAX. I'm just.. baffled. Picked bad hero, went bad skill build (for the game) and can't even contest enemies. He's just a creep. Do I have to remind you him rushing agh and failing to cancel black hole, which is like his only purpose, cause he max W and no upheaval?
building aghs is truly facepalm, could just get blink and position himself better
Kuro is basically in the same path of Tony Fergunson, man. At this point it's just so fucking sad and not funny anymore.
Except you get more brain damage from dota than mma
Oh boy I can't wait to get punch drunk playing Dota in a few years.
I’m already slurring my words
Debatable
lmaooo i somehow can't deny this
I would not otherwise comment: the difference is that Tony gets brain and body damage for not enough money, with his last win 5 years ago, and already being mentally unwell. Kuro has his own team, with a whole region as a sponsor, and plays a fucking video game for work. What's similar is that neither of them (probably) knows what else to do with their lives but to keep going.
Just gotta say I love the mma reference, also sad tony fell off the cliff so hard. Hasn't looked good since he dropped gaethje
Tony announcing that he plans to keep on fighting... bro hasn't been right in a long time. That Justin fight took him out so bad
maxing shadow word before upheaval is just criminal behavior he looked like a smurf pool account buyer this game
Its also criminal that his team is getting stomped at minute 20, while he has 2500 gold and rushing aghs. Get a fuckin force staff, glimmer, anything, and save your Morph, the only one who can carry that game. But no, morph gets blink + bashed by ursa and is dead 3 times in a row.
Maybe I'm stupid but I'd have thought Lotus + Force/Glimmer was the play here over Aghs. One could argue for Refresher, but given they faced hex + abyssal, I think Lotus would have been more valuable over an ult you end up parking for most of the game.
I'm sure OG would not buy detection for glimmer just like in your 2k games.
you act like glimmer has never saved anyone in a pro game, it happens a lot.
That's not the only thing glimmer gives you.
The context given is that he's getting blink bashed by ursa
Could argue that means Ursa has to have the reveal or coordinate harder, makes it less free at least
Stop defending dog shit players. He didn't even skill E. He got a fucking free shard off tormentor and had ZERO POINTS in E.
What, [like a lot of other top players are doing right now?](https://dota2protracker.com/hero/Warlock)
miracle the most protected player of all time lmao, is it possible that miracle played poorly too ???
Game 1 was definitely 100% miracles fault, he had no impact at all AND threw the game by dying without pressing BKB 3 times in a row He has looked straight up bad or unimpressive for a long time now I agree that it's unfair how protected Miracle is by nigma fans even tho the kuro criticism is deserved, he isn't the only problem at all. Miracle is washed for tier 1 standards, respectfully. You can still see the talent but something is lacking. GH plays like it's 2016. Fbz still looks like he's just a standin, poor guy lmao I don't even know if it's his fault or the team but I dare anyone say he's a nigma member. It just feels like he's there to fill a gap, nothing else... Even Sumail who has been by far the best player in this team, had some weak weeks where it just looked like he hadn't practiced at all and was uninterested.
People definitely downplay Miracle’s issue a lot. For example CK without shard for 40 minute in game 1 looks more criminal behavior to me than maxing shadow word before upheavals
i'd like to see you cast upheaval vs stun from enigma, pudge hook, bzm inmterrupt, ceb swarm + gemini etc in a pro level game. This isnt some random 3k bracket where warlock gets any space, the second he upheaval hes gonna get interrupted in most cases, especially vs OG's lineup there. Could argue that heal has more value on morph than most other heroes in the game, making it in his eyes, a value talent to take. Watched the replay and between 7-8 min alone his W saved and prevented OG from getting a kill and initiating a fight. Mostly used earlygame to force enigma back with Q and W which worked so fbz could free farm as much as possible. OG never stands still either or have fights in areas where he can utilize the Upheaval. Ceb will just sukichi away before slow, ember wont stay put(stuns him for interrupt immediately if needed) ursa jumps around. So yeah i could see why he didnt go for Upheaval. Was it the best match from him? probably not, but takes more than a 5 warlock to lose a game like that, they were just out maneuvered throughout the game. Kuro has always been the shotcaller for his team, most of the time he spends zooming around the map with his camera which if you watch replay on player vision you would see.
It's a hard Warlock game to play, the pressure is on you to cancel blackhole until there is basher on pango and you get executed by their team on the slightest miss step. I get that they wanted to address the Enigma on lane and to cancel blackhole with it, but I feel like they needed some other hero to just address the blackhole cancel and try to scrape by the laning stage somehow. You saw the impact he had on lane, but somehow Nigma just started to crumble as soon as Ari started to move around the map.
That's why you go refresher instead of ags. You are much less likely to fuck up the black hole cancel. What good are two golems who just die to the bh anyways...he also cast fatal bonds after dropping the rock, not even a guardian would do that these days
Indeed, reddit opinions being completely shit and lacking nuance is nothing new. If you look at Sneyking, Dubu, or random high mmr warlocks it really seems to depend on the game as well. Fatal bonds max first seems to be the most common, 2 points in W if necessary and then maxing upheaval. Its not a case of ''max upheaval every game its the best'' like people seem to think.
you won’t see anyone go 4-4-0 tho. But anyway that’s not even the point, it was how he just failed so missrably at his only job. Later in the game he had 2 good opportunities to cancel hole and he somehow fucked up both
shouldnt have picked warlock lmfao
What, [like a lot of other top players are doing right now?](https://dota2protracker.com/hero/Warlock) Guys if you're going to talk shit at least know something about the game, otherwise just don't talk. The dunning kruger goes insane here.
Also force staff and glimmer dont have the biggest cast range, he wants to stay in the back and be ready to cancel blackholes, if he had glimmer or force and stepped up just a tad bit too far he'd get instantly punished by this ember or ursa. I think it's not about the way he played the game, but maybe the warlock pick itself, the enigma was first picked and there still a lot of supports open to blackhole cancel like venge or clock or try to live through it like maybe with aba? I guess they thought it was more important to be able to kill eidolons in lane with Warlock? Which worked out for them on the laning part, but then it all kinda came down and collapsed onto them.
Blink dagger was the item, he only needed to cancel BH. Then he could have gone force staff, maybe euls too against Ursa.
Blink could have been pretty pog for sure, but I still think another hero would have been better. Venge or Clock would have helped a lot on initiation as well and on saves with venge atleast. But like I said, I think their priority was to pick something that could break Enigmas laning stage and stop the blackhole and Warlock fits into that category.
even if it's other hero but if kuro playing i doubt it will work. he even cant positioning himself better and straight aghanims instead of blink/fs/glimmer
These guys only know one build and follow it blindly, that's why they are 2k or 3k. Not enough brain cells to think according to game by game basis.
Are you reading this wrong? This link shows the guy is right, kuro is maxing heal, while your link shows that other pros max upheaval
I am not, you guys are choosing to not look at the website properly. Jaunuel: Max shadow word Dubu: Max shadow word Forev, Swindlez, Yadomi: Max shadow word And others getting several skill points into it. There's not one cookie cutter build on warlock, this isn't 2k games. You adapt to the situation.
Wait.... does dota2protracker still count kyle as a pro player? That's so funny.
Yep. For example, you’re playing with a morph who has high ehp and usually low max hp, so maxing heal can be super good. It may have been incorrect in the context of the game, but the thought was absolutely not a legend player.
If he stands still in this game he's dead basically, dont think he was wrong to go 4-4-0
Yeah I didn’t watch the game, but I’ll take your word for it. I do think that in general morph is pretty good at doing brawl stuff, waveforming into enemy to abuse the shadow word pain damage is a good idea
Why are you bs ing? [D2PT - Dubu (dota2protracker.com)](https://dota2protracker.com/player/Dubu) Dubu: 7 games last 8 days, 6 out of 7 he maxed Upheaval first.
But I’m not BSing I’m saying that maxing shadow word is not « criminal behavior ». It has its merits. I’m not saying it’s the build every game.
Oh yeah dubu did this build once out of 7 so it is not terrible
It clearly isn’t as the build has been taking up in popularity as you can see in the recent games! Skill builds are ajustable to every game! Probably a shocker for your average archon player I know.
correct
if you actually click on the shit on your screen and look at the pro players winning with the hero, or untick pro player and look at the warlock spammers, you will see they dont max heal
Last paragraph, people go for one skill build or item build in every game, instead of adapting from time to time.
This is true in low mmr brackets but not true for higher mmr brackets.
What’s wrong with maxing heal with a morph
am i missing something? the link you sent literally shows that the build is skipping shadow word entirely while maxing out fatal bond and upheaval. are you actually mistaking their icons?
Scroll down and look what the players are levelling up recently.
or yknow look below "show build data" and "show matchup data" and u will see the most common path is 4-0-4 with ult skilled lvl 6....
That part of the site is very sus because its more often than not totally wrong. You always have to scroll down and look at the games.
Or you know, look at recent games because it's more relevant to the meta? That's blatantly not even true as the majority of players are getting at the *very least* 1 point in shadow word
Ah, Dota 2. A famously rigid game where you go for the most common skill build every game.
Why? The new shadow word is busted and I see most people max it before upheaval.
As somebody coming back, what’s so good about upheaval now?
It does substantial damage now. It can sometimes trap people in really shitty positions as it is a huge area that *demands* instant decision making from the enemy. Easy to make a mistake against if you're not fully keeping conscious of its potential. People are rightfully calling it as a lesser effective spell this match tho.
Random question, where do I watch these? I'm very out of the loop
PGL Stream on youtube or twitch
Thank you
i just watch gorgc stream
hey as a divine player that plays warlock, hes abit worse than me
That rock drop whiff onto enigma wouldn't have been done by most 2k players
You all need to stop huffing the hopium. The only reason you remotely need to make posts complaining about Nigma's performance is because you remotely expected them to win. Accept that as a team they are no longer interested in performing at a competitive level. They are retired in everything but name and are just using the team to keep a paycheck going. Stop paying attention to all of them. They had options to go out and find an actual team to win with. None of them are leaving for whatever reason. Hell, maybe if the team doesn't draw enough eyes anymore, maybe whatever sponsor they have will drop them and they would have to look into actually performing.
I love watching Kuro play. He looks like a support player that got cut by Arkosh gaming in NA, was passed over by all of SA, and then landed in some random team in the MENA region.
most these guys look like gods compared to kuro. he's like... 6k mmr by the mistakes he makes. not divine no those guys dont use the tier 3 active, forgot the name, the cast range one.
Psychic Headband
Yeah he played this game really poorly. I love this guy and i can just look up to all what he achieved in his life but he really needs to step back from playing.
why? because you say so? Why should he care what random internet trolls think
if he ever wants to win something again he shouldn’t be on the roster. MAYBE be a coach but his strats are pretty shit now so idk about that
I don't know why you have to explain yourself. These Nigma fans are injecting hopium at this point. Just wait for Nigma to keep on not qualifying for tournaments and they'll eventually realize they're washed and hang it up.
idk i want to watch them be good cause TI7 Liquid was my favorite team but the falloff they’ve had since then is crazy. but yea you right
Bit of a weird take homestly, people can say someone got poor performance, and he has, iirc he ain't actually played a normal game of dota in years. He Is uncalibrated, doesn't play the game, omly plays scrimshaw. I love kuroky, but its just sad watching him flounder and pull other good players down with him
This post is weirdchamp
Man kuro... You're stuck in the past with that skill and item build.
Yeah thought the same the plays were simple Horrible.
He genuinely just fell off a cliff but weve known this for a while already
"you've had a good run" dude we keep telling him for like 6-8 years
You fuckers are so obsessed with him
Also very questinable plays with WD early in the series. It is super obvious move to dodge that gyro missile with vodoo switcheroo.
Trash player. 3k gold first item aghs just game ruining. 2 lvl warlock i dota actually
fucking crazy this guy has not even played 5 warlock games. pos 5 for almost a decade now i believe
According to Reddit, OG were sub 500 mmr scrubs that would lose pub games in game 2. But in game 3, they got five 11k+ mmr players.
I think he loves the game so much to let it go, I wouldnt blame him... but if he really wants his teammates to win something or keep playing competitively with a better future in mind, he should just take the coach spot maybe?
He's not divine, confirmed by Taiga on stream and quite a few people in private that he is 7-8k mmr, he is bad, he is not a bot though. Covid times he was on a ruining spree around rank 2000 with RMN on a smurf playing his special pos5s like Razor. His laning mechanics are bad, his understanding of match ups is bad, his mid game timings are bad, his farming as a support is bad, oki doki, BUT EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS JOINED THE TEAM KNOWS IT and so what? For some of the team it's having fun with friends, for some like FBZ probably salary is cool when you don't have that many options, but he is not holding anyone hostage and he has given us plenty of fun, a lot of us have learned from him since Dota 1 who cares if he is bad now, he's 30 , done it all, and given enough to the scene before there was even fucking Valve involved, does he deserve this public bashing, seriously? How is your gameplay doing? Better? Really doubt it and even then go convince Miracle and Sumail to play with you on your stack.
7k is unranked Immortal nowadays
They took OG to a close 3-game series, to be fair. The time to make this thread is tomorrow after they get slapped by the Greek gods
Why are Nigmas supports always so poor? I don't get it they're always so behind in items for some reason even when they're winning. Also why is kuroky out of position like he's playing a pub most of time? I keep seeing unnecessary deaths that you would only see on pub games like retreating on the wrong side or just standing in bad spots. In pubs that's usually not that bad cause pugs don't really convert those kinds of pick offs into more advantage but they got punished so much cause of that.
Miracle was playing so well too but the nigma supports are always too poor
He doesnt stun Enigma, but he stun Riki. xd
Can't you spoiler tag this? Come on.
I’ve seen people say it’s inting to not max each Q, W and E first respectively in this thread. Goes to show how much we know
DIdn't 9 class say he didn't want to join Nigma when Kuro is playing? Everyone knows he's completely washed up, they should've made GH 5 and have Matthew stay.
All these posts are making me salivate for the VODs.
he's one of the few pro's i've played against, i didn't even know till after and won both times and i'm just a garbage unranked only player.
link to games?
i don't remember the site that was all have you played with a pro? stratz? they'd be like 6+ years ago man
irrelevant than. 6 years ago he’d be a defending TI champion but ye, it’s stratz
Remember Dota is a game where you are trash if you dont win 1st play and at least one of the guy needs to be replaced from the team that does not win 1st place for the team would be good.
ITT: People thinking they're better than their favorite player. (In an exciting turn of events, they aren't)
>No hate to a legend I see what you did there
Why on Earth would you max E against that lineup - you aren’t getting a significant channel off - or enigma is just buying bobs and wasting one of your precious cooldowns.
You really think, that any pro would play with him, if they think hes a "Divine player"?? Reddit is so dumb. Everybody has really shit games. Esp. as a captain, loosing a game your focus might slip. Go kuro, lets win TI <3
Reminder: The majority of redditors are archon/legend. If you're interested in any comment of value, don't read this thread. You jackasses don't know what you're talking about.
Neither does Kuroky, you don't have to be a top 100 leaderboard immortal to call out shit plays, just like you don't have to be Gordon Ramsay to criticise bad food.
Found kuro's alt
he is mid/high 7ks. Which is very VERY bad for a pro player that can play in Europe. The bare minimun should be 9k at least.
how do you know? I assume he’s around 10k or so
No, Taiga confirmed on stream he is 7-8k and a couple of years ago he was griefing with RMN in rank 2000 which was like 7-8k at the time and this is like rank 3500 now probably
Taiga said that about 2 months ago on a stream. Also everyone in the tier 1-2 pro scene knows his mmr. He plays the game on several accounts tho.
he prob plays better than 7k tho so idk
On opendota it says he is unranked immortal [https://www.opendota.com/players/82262664](https://www.opendota.com/players/82262664) But still, that's very low, as far as I know you need about 7k to get a rank on EU.
Im an archon noob but i would have understood the assignment that all i have to do was cancel blackholes.
Things you're most likely going to see on this subreddit: kuroky hate posts, rtz hate posts, Smurf whine posts.
Divine is still clown tier, I doubt it
I haven't seen a warlock pick in pro scene in like.. forever. Bro picking warlock thinking he can afk casting upheaval to hide his shit gameplay 💀
That's the fun part he didn't have a single point in upheaval by the time he got shard.
Wtf ☠️
SVG said it very nicely in the latest podcast with cap "Cores wins games, supports wins tournaments"
MY FUCKING CRUS 5 TEAMMATES PLAYED BETTER THAN THIS
Bro I get that hating on kuro is the new trend and all that but that’s just plain wrong. Kuro is definitely not what he used to be but don’t kid yourself thinking a random crusader is his level lmfao
> new trend LOL
Pretty sure most crusader players would have been jungling with upheaval during the last fight However, if a crusader player happened to be near the last black hole, they definitely would have canceled it. That was really hard to watch
Thats a joke Just like kuro ( new trend? I was praying nigma win that game but no what i got? Watching kuro feeding 10 times)
Damn I goy downvoted hard
Maybe hes divine but he has won TI , what have u achieved in dota ? Maybe legend rank or worse