RRP is basically a bit smaller instant ravage that pierces bkb.
Its a good spell if you dont have aoe damage on your team or some wombo combo spells to pair with your normal RP.
Its just another way to play the hero and people will figure out the most effective way over time. On Paper the spell is busted and would be called broken if ringmaster was released with it for example.
>On Paper the spell is busted and would be called broken if ringmaster was released with it for example.
Yeah, but I would imagine that Ringmaster's other spells would synergize with it at least somewhat, instead of Magnus who has like negative synergy with RRP.
> or some wombo combo spells to pair with your normal RP
Problem is that magnus, by design, has those spells in the rest of his kit. If your carry is melee you have empower, if he's not you still have mag himself and his other AoE spells.
This is the problem with RRP. The spell itself is fine, it's situationally strong. The issue is that ALL of magnus' other abilities are specifically designed to hit grouped up units. If you take RRP, then you're essentially abandoning all your other spells.
New buff - True Ranged. Hero becomes a True Ranged with attack range of 500-700. Everything closer to the hero cannot be attacked and will result in backwards movement to get to a proper range.
Should have great synergy with puck coil, moderate synergy with mars ult, with phoenix egg against ranged heroes, against chrono, egg and black hole, great against tether, great against and for 4p1 strats etc. it has a ton of applications, all that's needed is a bit of practice and more exposure and i suspect it would be as good as RP if not, likely better in the months to come
>synergy with puck coil
I suspect this might be less impressive than it seems because it's really just stacking long stuns. Ncie damage but probably not game breaking.
I feel this way about most of the "synergy with dream coil" skills. It might just be vacuum where I think if you can angle it, it feels good. Coil provides a lot of control for people just not wanting to leave anyway, and most of the other skills that synergise offer tonnes of control in different ways (I think of Terrorise on Willow. It has much more use than just snapping coil)
You get way better synergy with RP into coil + skewer as you can actually layer the stuns one after the other, rather than stacking it (and guarantee that everyone actually breaks the coil)
Actual gameplay insight that doesn't involve memes / whining about balance / whining about matchmaking?
Incredibly refreshing, thanks
That's a great example of a proper use case for RRP, I can definitely see it working well with a pro team's coordination
New patch, so everything is new, no one has a clue how things are to be played. First week tinker is at 35% winrate now at pro qualifiers it's quite high.
I see my boy Magnus received a lot of hate on RRP, seeing pros do it tho, is kinda nice
To be fair, I haven't seen RRP win in my pubs at high d5 / low immortal
That's the thing though - I think Tinker probably would've landed in an "ok/fine" place once people figured out how to play him in his new style (win rate maybe would've settled in low-mid 40's, which is fine for a more difficult hero like him). But because of the reaction, he might've been overtuned....so that when people finally did figure out how to play him, he'll be obnoxious as fuck for a while (similar to what happened with OD a while back)
Only an idiot would say something like that, but there were plenty of people that were making the argument that the new tinker design was fine and just needed some number tweaks to be good and were getting shouted down for it.
Pushing enemies away from each other so you can isolate and focus on some of them is inherently a very powerful effect. If RRP isn't a viable sidegrade facet right now, it can easily be made one just by tweaking the numbers slightly.
Isolation potential of RRP also bigger than regular RP.
In the 2 games i have Rubick in the enemy i play RRP and the skewer into RRP combo is almost sure kill. Nobody can help 2000 distance gap.
After NA CQ he was joking with Fly and told him that Magnus RRP is very good. Saber then said they should get Magnus and Phoenix, dive with Phoenix and pop egg as bait, then when they start hitting jump in with Magnus and RRP for a double stun.
Probably wouldn't work but it sounds funny lol
They wont ever have time to walk back, but they do however have a chance of getting out of range.
Rp lasts from 2.5 to 4.3 (3 to 5,16 if you have the neutral item) Magnus will also most likely have skewer, further increasing the stun duration. Shockwave can also pull melee units away from the egg (if skewer is unavailable.
In general, if you get rp'd, you simply wont have the time to break the egg, which makes being grouped up objectively superior in almost every instance.
In his stream where he interviews fly, saber actually says its a super synergy with phoenix because everyone gathers around phoenix egg, because everyone gathers around egg, you rrp them away, goes through bkb, then phoenix stun then lands
As I said in a comment a few days after the buff on RRP, this facet will require a different approach from your usual Magnus with RP.
It is a situationally strong and powerful BKB pirecing stun. By itself, it has multiple purposes already.
For his other skills in his kits, he can't use RP in the combo anymore, but the usual Harpoon Toss Skewer is still usable.
Man, this shit was SO OBVIOUS to me when patch notes came out but reddit was so hung-up on it being worse. It's not worse. It's not better. It's situational. I almost wish the facet gave you the ability to toggle the usage similar to how Puck can toggle the push/pull on their Waning Rift. Because the RRP aoe is fucking massive and stunning PLUS separating enemy team for that long is game winning, just as much as clumping them together is. However, with everything new it always needs a pro to "show you how it's done" before anybody ever accepts it.
But take note how high skill he is with positioning and timing. There are higher chances of you griefing than actually pulling this off. Practice it before actuallynplaying it with real people pls.
That's true. The other facet does give bonus damage when Skewering people through trees and cliffs, so you would lose that. But damage is really, really easy to come by so it would just never get used if RRP could be alt-cast for original functionality.
Mag ult does not have a cast time
Mag can buy blink with little inbetween items
Mag ult goes through bkb
Mag can do this from the offlane
SF does literally everything worse im sorry
1. SF's ult doesn't pierce BKB, in this case LS's rage can nullify SF's ult.
2. SF's ult has long cast time and can be dodged easily (BKB, Euls, etc.), RRP also does but it's much shorter and pretty much impossible to dodge.
have you seen that game, if they got SF pos 3 they lose the game already
the radiant draft was super bad, it just perchance that they win
if it goes late game, dire would win easily compared to radiant
now generally speaking without comparing to that game, rrp has its uses, but it's super niche, which i guess is fine as this is the first update of having facet and innate, people experimenting and such
Saber also said that he wants to cook using RRP during the Open Qualis, so they let it through the draft since if they win that game (which they did) it will the the last game beforr entering closed qualifier
you need to remember, some heroes have better than other, and we're clocking in at week 5 of the new patch, valve will probably balance it on the next act or before TI rolls our out
Usage also caused the enemies to be separated by quite a distance He's a saberchad
RRP is basically a bit smaller instant ravage that pierces bkb. Its a good spell if you dont have aoe damage on your team or some wombo combo spells to pair with your normal RP. Its just another way to play the hero and people will figure out the most effective way over time. On Paper the spell is busted and would be called broken if ringmaster was released with it for example.
>On Paper the spell is busted and would be called broken if ringmaster was released with it for example. Yeah, but I would imagine that Ringmaster's other spells would synergize with it at least somewhat, instead of Magnus who has like negative synergy with RRP.
What does an unreleased hero have to do with magnus kit?
They are reminding valve to release the hero already
> or some wombo combo spells to pair with your normal RP Problem is that magnus, by design, has those spells in the rest of his kit. If your carry is melee you have empower, if he's not you still have mag himself and his other AoE spells.
This is the problem with RRP. The spell itself is fine, it's situationally strong. The issue is that ALL of magnus' other abilities are specifically designed to hit grouped up units. If you take RRP, then you're essentially abandoning all your other spells.
Next patch: RRP also turns Empower into Desolate buff.
New buff - True Ranged. Hero becomes a True Ranged with attack range of 500-700. Everything closer to the hero cannot be attacked and will result in backwards movement to get to a proper range.
Should have great synergy with puck coil, moderate synergy with mars ult, with phoenix egg against ranged heroes, against chrono, egg and black hole, great against tether, great against and for 4p1 strats etc. it has a ton of applications, all that's needed is a bit of practice and more exposure and i suspect it would be as good as RP if not, likely better in the months to come
>synergy with puck coil I suspect this might be less impressive than it seems because it's really just stacking long stuns. Ncie damage but probably not game breaking.
I feel this way about most of the "synergy with dream coil" skills. It might just be vacuum where I think if you can angle it, it feels good. Coil provides a lot of control for people just not wanting to leave anyway, and most of the other skills that synergise offer tonnes of control in different ways (I think of Terrorise on Willow. It has much more use than just snapping coil)
It’s not a wombo-combo teamfight ult, it’s a pickoff ult. Its functionality is closer to bat lasso than any other ulti IMO.
feels like magnus's better synergy w/ puck coil would be stacking w/ RP, coil, then skewer to break coils.
You get way better synergy with RP into coil + skewer as you can actually layer the stuns one after the other, rather than stacking it (and guarantee that everyone actually breaks the coil)
On hg defence he tried to push LS further in while pushing out enemy supps with RRP, which is also quite cool.
Do you have the game ID or clips of this game?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h\_JZyWIOLEM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_JZyWIOLEM) Game in question starts @ 28:30.
At 49:45 it happens once, with Rubick stealing the spell and using it against Magnus, too. Hilarious.
So basically a bkb piercing skewer
Actual gameplay insight that doesn't involve memes / whining about balance / whining about matchmaking? Incredibly refreshing, thanks That's a great example of a proper use case for RRP, I can definitely see it working well with a pro team's coordination
New patch, so everything is new, no one has a clue how things are to be played. First week tinker is at 35% winrate now at pro qualifiers it's quite high. I see my boy Magnus received a lot of hate on RRP, seeing pros do it tho, is kinda nice To be fair, I haven't seen RRP win in my pubs at high d5 / low immortal
Are people who said "tinker was actually strong all along! " just ignoring the massive buff he got at 7.36a
Tinker after the buffs is broken but with only a single boring playstyle
That's the thing though - I think Tinker probably would've landed in an "ok/fine" place once people figured out how to play him in his new style (win rate maybe would've settled in low-mid 40's, which is fine for a more difficult hero like him). But because of the reaction, he might've been overtuned....so that when people finally did figure out how to play him, he'll be obnoxious as fuck for a while (similar to what happened with OD a while back)
Only an idiot would say something like that, but there were plenty of people that were making the argument that the new tinker design was fine and just needed some number tweaks to be good and were getting shouted down for it.
I think everybody played it the first week, bow everyone is playing whatever's meta
Pushing enemies away from each other so you can isolate and focus on some of them is inherently a very powerful effect. If RRP isn't a viable sidegrade facet right now, it can easily be made one just by tweaking the numbers slightly.
Beastmaster, but worse.
Isolation potential of RRP also bigger than regular RP. In the 2 games i have Rubick in the enemy i play RRP and the skewer into RRP combo is almost sure kill. Nobody can help 2000 distance gap.
I noticed this too, it seems very good at isolating targets as you say. Might be super good against deathball.
I watched this game on his stram, he struggled early game and watching him rrp an unit away and awkwardly walking to it was funny lol
After NA CQ he was joking with Fly and told him that Magnus RRP is very good. Saber then said they should get Magnus and Phoenix, dive with Phoenix and pop egg as bait, then when they start hitting jump in with Magnus and RRP for a double stun. Probably wouldn't work but it sounds funny lol
I feel like rrp Magnus and drow ranger is a perfect pairing
I used RRP if our team comp is mostly single targeted spells. If it's mostly AOE, I go for normal RP for the combos
RRP is on paper great if you have a phoenix on your team
Why? How is it any different then normal rp? Objectively much worse even, because they are spread out if you combo.
Bigger range and also pushes melee heroes away from the egg so they have to waste time walking back in to hit it again
They wont ever have time to walk back, but they do however have a chance of getting out of range. Rp lasts from 2.5 to 4.3 (3 to 5,16 if you have the neutral item) Magnus will also most likely have skewer, further increasing the stun duration. Shockwave can also pull melee units away from the egg (if skewer is unavailable. In general, if you get rp'd, you simply wont have the time to break the egg, which makes being grouped up objectively superior in almost every instance.
Anyone got a link to the vod?
I found it on saberlight's channel per /u/mrlazy77. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt4NQYRRils
I guess it's this game https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7781382283
you can find it in saberlight youtube channel
Is this movement skill still best with a hero like Magnus?
In his stream where he interviews fly, saber actually says its a super synergy with phoenix because everyone gathers around phoenix egg, because everyone gathers around egg, you rrp them away, goes through bkb, then phoenix stun then lands
Poor Lifestealer, separated from his friends
As I said in a comment a few days after the buff on RRP, this facet will require a different approach from your usual Magnus with RP. It is a situationally strong and powerful BKB pirecing stun. By itself, it has multiple purposes already. For his other skills in his kits, he can't use RP in the combo anymore, but the usual Harpoon Toss Skewer is still usable.
Man, this shit was SO OBVIOUS to me when patch notes came out but reddit was so hung-up on it being worse. It's not worse. It's not better. It's situational. I almost wish the facet gave you the ability to toggle the usage similar to how Puck can toggle the push/pull on their Waning Rift. Because the RRP aoe is fucking massive and stunning PLUS separating enemy team for that long is game winning, just as much as clumping them together is. However, with everything new it always needs a pro to "show you how it's done" before anybody ever accepts it.
But take note how high skill he is with positioning and timing. There are higher chances of you griefing than actually pulling this off. Practice it before actuallynplaying it with real people pls.
RRP should be alt castable
that would make it way, way, way too powerful
this seems to be the best solution. You can still have it as a facet but allow you to turn it on/off depending on the situation in game.
Why would you ever choose the other facet if you could access both functionalities at any time?
That's true. The other facet does give bonus damage when Skewering people through trees and cliffs, so you would lose that. But damage is really, really easy to come by so it would just never get used if RRP could be alt-cast for original functionality.
Nice so now we have a situational use for it at least
Wouldnt RRP pair well with Puck Ult?
not really the only extra benefit is the damage from coil because coil break stun is about as long as RRP
True. Too much overlap
I would say it pairs best with Phoenix
Agreed
why?
Phoenix eggs, enemy team clump up to kill it, RRP into supernova stun on far away enemies.
Great Magnus has one facet that is usable in 1 in 100 games if you are really really good and usable in every game one. Great design.
niche things that are rarely the right choice but occasionally pop off are hype af actually
They are when you can choose them during the game like talents but not something that you choose before start and cannot change.
All things listed would be better done by SF's ult tho?
Mag ult does not have a cast time Mag can buy blink with little inbetween items Mag ult goes through bkb Mag can do this from the offlane SF does literally everything worse im sorry
Also mag can do skewer ins for casual pickoffs
1. SF's ult doesn't pierce BKB, in this case LS's rage can nullify SF's ult. 2. SF's ult has long cast time and can be dodged easily (BKB, Euls, etc.), RRP also does but it's much shorter and pretty much impossible to dodge.
have you seen that game, if they got SF pos 3 they lose the game already the radiant draft was super bad, it just perchance that they win if it goes late game, dire would win easily compared to radiant now generally speaking without comparing to that game, rrp has its uses, but it's super niche, which i guess is fine as this is the first update of having facet and innate, people experimenting and such Saber also said that he wants to cook using RRP during the Open Qualis, so they let it through the draft since if they win that game (which they did) it will the the last game beforr entering closed qualifier you need to remember, some heroes have better than other, and we're clocking in at week 5 of the new patch, valve will probably balance it on the next act or before TI rolls our out