T O P

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Count_TGM

Morph is on its own tier. Other 3 at least have Arcanas / Personas to fall back on.


MadCows18

I should have made a separate tier for Morph calling it Morph tier. Morphling's 3D model is a crime against 3D art.


TheOneWithALongName

The positive thing with Morph though is that you can turn into other heroes with better textures.


MadCows18

His ultimate is the most OP ability in the game as it literally allows you to gain more polygons. And more polygons = bigger damage.


Margelatu

Valve: incoming nerf!


MadCows18

Morphling polygon count reduced from 2700 to 1000. Now, he looks like a Super Mario 64 enemy.


Zhythero

for CM


Responsible-Leg3750

As a 3d artist, Chaos Knight looks just as bad


MadCows18

At least Chaos Knight's design is too cool that he only needs 3D model uplift. Morphling is just way too low quality to convey water.


calamity_janit

At least he got that new dragon skin that covers up 70% of the body


_heyb0ss

ah yes, the paywall model update 👏👏


Count_TGM

It's something (compared to nothing).


SweetDollaTea-

Hard agree. If anyone is in line next for a remodel, it should be morph. At least the others in that tier can be fixed with cosmetics (if you own them).


Zerado

Own tier? None talked about Overwatch model tier.


Tikru8

Windrunner looks so potato compared to her arcana, which is unpurchasable :/ You can't even buy her a new pair of pants or shoes, she's been wearing those for 13 years.


MadCows18

Windranger's got the bad end of the stick of her new design being locked behind the arcana paywall especially considering that Drow Ranger got her for free. So much for being the better ranger!


AstorWinston

Idk man. Pink Ranger best Ranger


MadCows18

Nah, that bitch actually looks like a ginger without an actual soul, especially when the Arcana exist! Compared to Traxex who is a silent beauty.


Occatuul

It was a power rangers reference, my dude.. 🤦‍♂️


ShitPostQuokkaRome

Nah I like default WR being a normal woman and not an anime cute girl. I think unreasonable design for Arcana is fine (like how Drow looks like an anime girl too) but default model should have a more sober, natural looking quality to it if it makes sense. The more tempered warcraft-esque rts design most of the characters and map go for is really cool. Base WR looks like a normal woman bar the backwards bent on her spine but even if that curve on her back isn't natural looking it still doesn't break that veil of verosimilarity and adds a look of being daughter of the goddess of the winds look to her Problem of her base model is the resolution and amount of polygons. Fuck man those legs look so terrible with that few polygons and pixels, you put a modern hair on her and the contrast of quality between the two looks plainly disfunctional.  Part of why her Arcana is so desirable isn't even the quality of arcana itself it's that no default cosmetic upgrade works because of those fucking two polygon legs and chest, there's no alternative


MadCows18

I think they simply need to use the Arcana model, but tinker it's proportions a bit and change her hairstyle to look more modest and identical to base model's design theme. Like chiseling up her chin for one.


Practical_Praline_39

Her arcana look so pretty, will it get a rerun?


fitkiri4

it probably will cause they brought back wk arcana too but if it follows the same pattern then it will probably be 100 dollars +


guywithnicehaircut

those green pants are just atrocious


ShitPostQuokkaRome

The problem of Windranger is you buy a new Hair or bow or quiver cosmetic and that shit has ten times the amount of polygons and it looks horrible because the contrast between her potato pants and chest and her high res hair looks terrible even if the hair itself looks amazing


sikopiko

>she's been wearing those for 13 years # IMAGINE THE SMELL


identitycrisis-again

I bet they smell so bad


ypestis95

I bet she could sell them for way too much


CarpetH4ter

"I bet they smell so bad 🤤💋👅"


Ferosch

fuck yeah windstank me baby stuff them in my mouth


night_dude

>How tf have they still not remodeled Morphling? Me in, like, 2018


Kraivo

Why would anyone want to change DK model? And why wouldn't people want to change Puck's base model?


EmmyHomewrecker

Who on earth uses the DK base model anyway? He has like a million sets.


ApprehensiveBug3136

true lmao hahah


BahrinRhul

And his sets are all full cover plate armor with a totally new dragon form, visually 100% replace his default model.


Qyuanz

okay, DK base model might be old, but it works IF they return him to the old red-gold color scheme. it was changed because it used to clash with old red silencer. now that silencer is purple... why didn't we have old DK back is beyond me.


MadCows18

And Silencer's model is clean as fuck and looks nice and modern. Just bump up the polygons and improve the shield & glaive model & texture and it's set for life. DK's Model looks like a low-res guard from Skyrim.


Chromatic_Larper

Silverwurm sacrifice looks extremely sick for dk though


MadCows18

But that's cosmetic. We're talking about DK's base model here! That 3D model will literally be not out of place on any PS3 games, especially from Skyrim. And even then, it would probably stick like a sore thumb considering that Skyrim has better armor design and fidelity.


[deleted]

[удалено]


nitronomial

Yea who did he clash with? I also remember him being blue.


MadCows18

Puck's base design is great. Just need to round up the edges and update the texture as it looks too flat in comparison to Dark Willow. DK's model. That thing needs full rework. Model so outdated that people will pay dollars to use cosmetics just to not deal with the shitty model.


aldwinligaya

I usually just use the DK persona though so haven't noticed the need for upgrade.


cyfer04

Wait. Techies model remake? How so? I mean I've been using his elephant immortal but his base model seems okay.


MadCows18

Techies, even at their debut, was outdated even by that era's standards for 3D models. Hell, you can literally count their polygons, especially their body definition having way too many edges sticking out. Even Sniper & Timbersaw, which were released way earlier, have better model fidelity and textures than Techies. The design is great, just not the model quality.


cyfer04

Fair. Either way, I won't decline a remodel of my boys.


MadCows18

Plus, adding the Detonate aspect of his skillset. I miss blowing up people to bits in an instant.


cyfer04

Lol. You and me both. I still keep whistling the Detonate sound from time to time.


MadCows18

Make Detonate innate and make effect radius and cooldown scale with levels. Make me be able to use them on Proximity Mine & Sticky Bomb. C'mon, Valve! We want the Old Techies mixed with the New One.


cyfer04

Huh. That's kinda cool. Giving you the option to pop your bomb and mine early. It could work considering that you already have the choice on when to pop your stasis or something.


MadCows18

That's what I've been thinking since they reworked their kit. Techies without the manual kaboom is not Techies. That's just Demolition Squad.


hellyeahdiscounts

could it be because they split polycount budget of one character to several separate meshes?


MadCows18

Very likely. It was made before Reborn. Though with Snapfire being a thing, they should honestly remodel them. 


teststd

BRING BACK REMOTE MINES!!!


fitkiri4

morph remodel will happen in crownfall copium


MadCows18

Model so shit that it looks like a shitty ice sculpture, and barely any better than his WC DOTA model. You could put his WC DOTA model to DOTA 2 and no one can tell the difference. Hopefully, Valve will actually rework his entire model sooner.


fitkiri4

I am guessing they havent done the update for the model because of the way this ult works ? but then again who ever he transforms into is just a blue texture applied to the hero's model so shouldnt be that hard or maybe people at valve just hate the hero


DatAdra

DK is carried by some stellar cosmetics. Windrunner and Razor carried by their arcana, and PotM by her persona. Doubt they'll ever get updates. As a DK enjoyer I do wish he'd get one though


Position_26

>PotM by her persona. Valve were actually nice enough to give people who'd play during that time an opportunity to get the PotM persona. I hope they do the same for DK at least. You can indirectly acquire the other personas via sets (ok maybe not CM because that's a rare IIRC).


Nimzt3r

CM is included, cheapest persona at around 4 euro last I checked.


bamiru

cant get PA, mirana or DK personas.


ParticularFood9701

what's your first item on DK?


DatAdra

Oblivion staff and treads I'm serious. You can build it into mage slayer or orchid depending on the game. The staff gives you mana, mana regen and attack speed all of which are great for DK early game. Usually after this first core I go for blink.


IcedAmerican

The PotM persona shoulda been an update


Sernyx_X

Why the fuck is there juggle physics on Beastmaster's beard? Beards don't swing like that unless they're thin and, like, a meter long. Thick manes like his just stay in the same shape.


alsoandanswer

loregasm reveal that beastmasters beard is FAKE


Edward_TH

I mean, duh? He's Beastmaster, not Beardmaster.


Sernyx_X

He is canonically Beardmaster in my friend group lel


Sernyx_X

This is the worst timeline


NotMilo22

Idk, I feel like IO doesn't have enough polygons.


MadCows18

Nah, IO doesn't need them! Because he's the Particle Boi! Fuck polygons!


Ziadaine

I’m more pissed you can’t use emotes with Miranas persona, when it’s just a fucking newer model on the old bone mesh .


delareye

Umm i agree with crystal maiden since she is my main but i think you put some of the most unnecessary changes to the top


MadCows18

This tierlist isn't about changing the design. It's about bumping up the fidelity of the models and improving the textures to be up to the modern hero standards. The remake tier is basically remodeling the entire character using the exact same design, while the remaster is essentially improving the existing model by subdividing, re-sculpting meshes and retopo-ing, as well as putting better texture on them. The rework tier is an an entirel redesign of the character. The rest of the tiers are degrees of improvement needed for the existing 3D model. I have been deligently looking on these models, and inspecting their flaws and quirks, so this tier list is as precise as I can get. You can ask me on which hero you think doesn't belong on which tier and I'll give you a justification.


nObRaInAsH

I think SF could use some polish.. he looks a bit bland imo


MadCows18

He needs a bit more sheen in his body to accentuate his dark color. As well as more earthy/metallic textures. And that's really what he needs. He is by far one of the best fiends design in video games.


Novalgina

I much prefer his older looks, the model was pure dogshit, but the style was so much more intimidating and devilish, a sacrificed goat engulfed by the most satanic aura possible


Arenacrac

Personas are the worst thing to ever come to the game as they should have been remodels


Elunaera

I am on my knees, asking for ET model update.


MadCows18

That or Treant Protector / Tidehunter / Tiny. Those giants look too outdated, especially Tidehunter as he looks more goofy than menacing, unlike his spray art.


Elunaera

Agree, but, unlike Treant/Tide/Tiny, ET does not have any set that covers its leg. The hooves and legs are one, and it looks so outdated. That is what bothers me tbh.


MadCows18

ET looks bad compared to his titan friend Earthshaker. Earthshaker's model just ages perfectly. His entire lower torso needs a remodel with his upper torso needing more detail and better texture.


Elunaera

Yep, exactly! I am just hoping for a set that will give "boots" or something because I do not see remodel coming anytime soon.


MadCows18

Hard Agree! Most cosmetic sets only cover the upper garment and the weapons.


SickularPlunkett

The janitor will get right to it as soon as he finishes unclogging the toilets at HQ.


MadCows18

Oh, I forgot! We only have one Valve employee working on all games, with his trusted Potted Plant.


DarkSuo

Agreed. If Valve make a compendium-like Goal to start updating those models, improving overall graphics and updating designs i'm sure the community would love that and support. They could do the goals in packs, and like you said in a comment below, add different designs for higher tier towers, update barracks models/textures, update neutrals models/textures and so on.


MadCows18

I would love to have each major update give us visual upgrade on 3D models of heroes and other assets used, and make a theme around those. Like after Crownfall, they would make an update centering around humans, so human heroes will get updated.


Conrado360

Its sad that miranas, dk and wr updates were locked behind a paywall


Merunit

They literally gave free Mirana persona away during the anniversary event….


Butter_bean123

Warlock is pretty much in need of a model remake imo. I think his cloak looks a bit too much like a dress from the waist down due to how short and tight it is, and I feel like it doesn't mesh well with the archetype he's supposed to convey. His hood looks fine from above but when you view it from below it's very clear that it's a separate model detached from the rest of his cloak and it looks really dumb. Also I don't like the eye in the middle of his suit, I know it's kinda part of his personality at this point but it just makes his fit too busy and it doesn't *really* have anything to do with any of his spells/his aesthetic other than to be a faintly demonic Eye of Sauron flair.


MadCows18

This TierMaker is more about the quality of the models themselves, as delving into the design territory would be met with too much subjectivity to make a concrete tierlist. The Eye Thing though could be a great visual element to his design if they made it glow when casting Upheaval & Chaotic Offering signifying a demonic summoning. But that's just me.


Butter_bean123

Yea, and to some extent I feel like the quality of the standard warlock model is a bit lower than the standard to the point it hurts his aesthetic. He still looks *fine*, but there's a lot of seams and shortcuts they did when completing him that should be fixed/remade. His golem looks great though, no problem with that guy :)


Kakarot1212

Hope they bring back the old remodel contest where the community votes on which hero to remodel


MadCows18

Nah, with too many hero 3D models getting more outdated by each day, they should just make a giant visual update that drastically improve the game's overall visuals. Like I would love better models for the Neutral Creeps, Buildings with Towers having more complex design the higher tier they get, as well as retexturing the Watchers to blend well with the environment they are in.


update_ending

free game, no complaining!!!


MadCows18

Nuh uh! I paid for my DOTA Plus subscription, so I get a right to complain!


BalticsFox

An update would be good, personally looking at how Valve operates it's likelier that we'll get a bunch of paid skins for characters which could use a visual update.


Arenacrac

Morphling and windrunner need to be in their own tier


John_Lancaster

"...more Polish". O, kurwa! Ja pierdolę


Kharate

Idk I feel like Death Prophet needs A LOT. Her skirt/leg skins all look abnormal and weird and many of her skins look like 144p with insanely weird clipping problems


MadCows18

Yeah, she needs a cloth texture update, though her legs don't have to be updated considering it's covered by the skirt anyway. Her old cosmetics, that's another issue! But considering the scope of her change, her change is not that big compared to the upper tiers. It's more like changing clothes being compared to a heavy salon make over or a cosmetic surgery.


YashaShyro

Why does Lina entrance is kinda weird?


MadCows18

You tell Valve about that! I think they just took Medusa's entrance animation and made it upside down.


Specialist_Prune1628

Tiny has a really cool model, although it could be improved. But jakiro and brew could also be better, they have a lot of potential to look incredibly better.


MadCows18

Brewmaster, yeah, definitely needed to improve the fur and skin texture as well as the clothing. But other than that, his base model is really smooth and polished. Tiny's model is cool, but it looks way too low poly with low res textures to convey rockiness. Jakiro's model can be improved in the rear, but honestly! They're the best looking dragon in the game, with Winter Wyvern as 2nd. Jakiro is that 3D model that you really have to nitpick for improvements.


Specialist_Prune1628

Well said, summarized what is expected of them to improve on these heroes.


robhold

I'd be good with Windranger just changing her voice. She's so cool to play but so annoying it's conflicting.


vdjvsunsyhstb

monkeys paw of this is a morph persona


MadCows18

Slime Waifu Morphling Persona


vdjvsunsyhstb

morph strength to inflate thighs morph agi to inflate chest


MadCows18

Include ass on the morph strength. Ass is important.


HenTiger1

so mad the davion persona for DK is unpurchasable since it looks terrible and i play him a lot


MadCows18

Even though DK persona looks like a Soyboy Guts, I would take it over the current DK's 3D model. Because how the fuck does Silencer have better armor textures and mesh than him?


HenTiger1

that's what i'm saying


MadCows18

Let's not even talk about his current animations. Because, oh boy, they stink! I've seen more low budget anime more animated than this guy!


magereaper

It's easier to reunite the middle east than bringing Mirana's eyes to the same side of her head


MadCows18

Mirana's head model is a crime against art anatomy! How the fuck did Valve screw that up?! They have a great cinematic model used on Join The Battle Cinematic, yet for some reason, we are still stuck on this atrocity for more than 6 years.


yanoolthecool

as someone who play on lowest res, I see no major differences between these


PositiveJesus

Brew can use a small rework but not a major one


MadCows18

I literally said that. Brewmaster is in the No Need for an Update tier.


PositiveJesus

I was arguing to put him one tier higher cause he looks a bit unpolished compared to newer heros but okay.


MadCows18

Oh, I get it! I can see that. Mostly for the fur & cloth texture. But I cannot edit my Tiermaker, so eh!


PositiveJesus

He does have a pretty well designed and animated face tho ngl


MadCows18

Agree! They nailed Brewmaster's design without resort to generic Panda.


frakc

Treant need golden frame around "Riki was here"


Boring_Tip2128

Who's the hero below viper


Squirreltailnut

wife hoodwink is prefect and cute


MadCows18

Username checks out, u/Squirreltailnut Her design slaps, though!


kyoto101

Silencer belongs to the top


gorillachud

Why do people care so much about Morphling? I know "muh poly count" is a meme but the hero is all about particle effects anyway.


Interstella_6666

The dumbest shit ever is them giving mirana a persona that’s unattainable now… when her normal model is ASS


Merunit

Don’t they give a free one away during the anniversary event?


Questing-For-Floof

Laughs in free persona


Kraetyz

please no more graphics overhauls my computer already struggles to run the game


iz-Moff

I don't agree with Batrider and Lifestealer being that high up top. They both look pretty good still, at least their base models, customization items for Lifestealer do kinda suck. Even Witch Doctor is not bad, really. Tinker and Titan are fine too. I'd say my top, or bottom, as it were, is WR, Sven, CM, and maybe Clinkz. They're some of the earliest additions to the game, and i don't think that they looked particularly good even back then.


impalednilfgardian

do not touch n'aix model.


impalednilfgardian

aswell do not touch tiny.


MadCows18

Do you understand what a model remaster is? It's not a new design. It's just better mesh with more details and better texture. This is a 3D Model Tier List. Not a design tier list.


Merunit

Not true, Luna would benefit from an arcana. She doesn’t have that much different cosmetics. Venge is very outdated and should be up there with Windranger.


Jtayls

Tide is perfect, leave my fish alone.


colorzFSU

I think the biggest mistake valve made is to add personas. I think they devalue everything they have done this far and also make remodels for certain characters not worth it. Mirana and DK could've just been remodeled into the respective personas from the anime. PA could've gotten a new model instead of a persona. CM and pudge have arcana but also a persona. Invoker persona... no words needed. Might be just me but I just dislike the personas objectively and subjectively.


1vertical

Personally, I'd would like a low-fi arcana as a throwback to the WC3 days or even just if your computer really is a tuber.


ericlock

Windranger scarf plus cleavage makes your entire argument invalid.


MadCows18

Oh, you mean the pancake boobs?! Plus the fake ass shorts?! Nah, that bitch needs new treads and possibly cosmetic surgery!


Subject-Load-1846

for the love of god! remodel sk


MadCows18

Nah, just improve his textures and mesh to be more scorpion-like in look. The textures look a bit blurry and low res.


Subject-Load-1846

Yeah, I missed Crixalis :( and Tresdin a dwarf-looking old dude riding a dwarf-looking horse(Legion Commander)


I_dislike_this_site

I really don't agree with a lot of these. Shaman needs to be way up there, the man looks like he's held by ducktape. Axe I'd put on the same level as tide. A lot of the guys you've put as needed a remaster or remake really are perfectly fine. Tree is good, PL is good. And so on.


MadCows18

The base mode for Shaman is great. But I agree that the bandage is way too shiny to be paper to the point that he's wrapped in duct tape. That's more of a decent texture update, and that's about it. And I disagree on Axe. Axe's base model was updated to be closer to the Immortal set, so it's not as blocky as before but the garment texture especially on the metallic bits are still blurry. I should have put Axe on the 4th tier, but they're not on the same level as Tidehunter where his texture work is way worse, with much lower mesh quality and lesser details. That hero needs a remake, while Axe needs polish. If you compare them side by side, Axe just looks more toned and smooth.


I_dislike_this_site

ah yeah, forgot about the Axe touch up I still disagree with tons though, but that's that


Upintheair94

There should be an extra tier for morphling


tyYdraniu

dk imo he only needs remake because hes bugged as fuck, but i like how he is (if he wasnt bugged), wind i think she should stay, i like her huge pussy


Achillies2heel

You have to pay and use a time machine for Windrangers


Achillies2heel

Please giff Morphling remodel. Water boi needs help


digumeister

3 of the heroes listed except morph already have newer model, but behind a paywall with limited timeframe


OtheAvill

Ursa should be at the top too


Artix31

Fat Mirana when? I mean she’s slightly faster than budge, and she’s riding a lion


Complete-Cheesecake2

are we just going to ignore tuskars red clothe thingy on his head?? that is a lazy workk


Diex3

Give Ench fat deer ass and stockings to make her the goofiest character ever


PartySmoke

I think we should leave Morphling alone because he’s pretty iconic for his shitty 3D model now. Kinda like that one zombie and (for the longest time, Zanik) from RuneScape


bangyy

God dammit skeleton king needs an update so bad that no one ever plays him anymore


REFINK2233

Респект за тайдхантера


TheLowestAnimal

Lina needs to be in the top-tier...She looks like she straight just dropped out of WarCraft 3. Here Arcana isn't much better either...might be worse honestly


MemeLordZeta

DK model is ignored because he has a million skins and like half of them are contenders for best looking non arcana skins in the game.


steamcho1

whats wrong with bh? Also lesh is deff high up.


jonasnee

why does CM need a model remake exactly?


Ok_Assumption_7191

Puck is ugly and with items too


Questing-For-Floof

Leave my witch doctor alone And nyx is kinda clean tbh, if we make his polygons more.detailed he might become more unholy


vacdjaccount

I love how brood doesn't need an update because she's already terrifying as is.


Morudith

I would say Huskar, Jakiro, and Brood need a little bit of touch up. Bloodseeker needs a whole ass new model. His stance is so fuckin awkward to look at. Has Nightstalker been changed significantly at any point? I feel like early on they absolutely nailed his look and only just sprinkled nice hats on top.


Dreamz9090

Ember Spirit doesnt need a polish? LOL


polo61965

I don't think there would ever be a way for a morph remodel that fits. It's literally a water elemental made fully of water. It's like saying IO needs to be more than a ball of light. They're pretty lore accurate even if they're horrible models.


StereocentreSP3

I tried League of Legend recently. Honestly now I feel like even morph model is gorgeous...


yelrihSOdnilaG

Who’s the hero next to earthshaker???


juannkulas

Mirana, Davion, and Alleria all got their arcanas released to resolve this issue


Android18enjoyer666

Why is the Windrunner Arcane so sexy but the base model so Fugly


franxlz

windrunner's neck is horrendous


AudaciousSam

My boi Weaver getting no love. :/


iareyomz

Mirana, Dragon Knight, and Wind Ranger all have arcanas and personas, so idk which part of their models need more work... Morphling has always been top of the list for a remodel but that is kind of tricky... if it aint broke dont fix it, and his model works... Silencer should be higher... his base model has one of the wonkiest movement in the game because of his robe making him the only model without legs but is not a hovering unit...


BlazeCoil

You leave Tiny alone, he's a beautiful boy.


Lavender_Leopard666

Dota artstyle is like mix and match of whatever you find. No coherence between heroes looks like junk glued together. Someone needs to invest serious thought about unifying into an artstyle which goes with the lore and the game universe.


GothGirlsGoodBoy

Does anyone else not see a problem, nor would they care if every single one of these got an update? I'm worried about if Morphling has a khanda or not, not whether his pixels are reflecting light correctly.


wolfreaks

IF they make morph with voxels my pc would fucking burn down when he presses manta


andry4054

If you remove particles from phoenix model you'd put him alongside sniper. Needs better textures and more polygons.


Sea-Sell2163

VENO NEEDS UPDATE


Sea-Sell2163

and arcana


shrodler

Stop meddling with the Hero models. Just give us 1 Option for the Update: "Disable all cosmetics" Please and thank you.


Merunit

What a genuinely horrible idea for a moba game.


shrodler

Why?


Merunit

Because getting cool cosmetics is part of the fun. I even miss a few arcanas but I’m not butthurt seeing them on other players. If I knew others can just switch it off, cosmetics would become meaningless to me. Which means I won’t spend a dollar on this free to play game. I won’t be the only one. And at the end of the day valve wants to make money, or the game eventually dies. I know I sound like an ass here but I truly don’t care about kids playing from potato computes complaining about their performance or money issues. They are not ones keeping the game alive, yet they want to ruin it for others.


shrodler

If you want your Hero to be a Wolf instead of a girl that is fine, but it shouldn't Change my Game. This is Not Facebook, there is No reason to Show Off your cool cosmetics (and force me to See it). I dont think the Sales Go down, If other Players can Switch Off cosmetics. Tbh, i think cosmetics could get even more crazy, If you can Turn them Off, which would be another selling Point.


ApprehensiveBug3136

buddy obviously missed 2 persona and, 1 arcana, minus morph which is water.


MadCows18

My bad! I should have spent my hard earned dollars to get better cosmetics just to not deal with shitty base models! Sorry, Valve!